Ask Dr. Drew - Cancel Culture vs. Comedy: Brian Dunkleman (Season 1 American Idol Cohost) Speaks – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 103

Episode Date: July 28, 2022

From unknown comedian, to co-host of American Idol, to driving for Uber... Brian Dunkleman tells his astonishing story of the ruthless world of Hollywood, cancel culture, and personal triumph in "Dunkleman" on Amazon Prime. Watch "Dunkleman" at Amazon.com and follow Brian at https://twitter.com/BrianDunkleman. [This episode was originally broadcast on July 14, 2022] ABOUT BRIAN DUNKLEMAN Brian Dunkleman was one of the first celebrities to experience the wrath of cancel culture after his departure from co-hosting the first season of American Idol. The actor/comedian is sharing that experience with never told before behind the scenes insights on the long-running show along with his own painful journey in “Dunkleman” which just debuted on Amazon Prime. The special is a labor of love for him and the first time that he is speaking about his own personal demons (i.e.; the trauma of losing his father when was 11-years-old, substance abuse, divorce) and the challenges of navigating the entertainment business post Idol. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (http://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. SPONSORED BY • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get 10% off with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew GEAR PROVIDED BY • BLUE MICS - After more than 30 years in broadcasting, Dr. Drew's iconic voice has reached pristine clarity through Blue Microphones. But you don't need a fancy studio to sound great with Blue's lineup: ranging from high-quality USB mics like the Yeti, to studio-grade XLR mics like Dr. Drew's Blueberry. Find your best sound at https://drdrew.com/blue • ELGATO - Every week, Dr. Drew broadcasts live shows from his home studio under soft, clean lighting from Elgato's Key Lights. From the control room, the producers manage Dr. Drew's streams with a Stream Deck XL, and ingest HD video with a Camlink 4K. Add a professional touch to your streams or Zoom calls with Elgato. See how Elgato's lights transformed Dr. Drew's set: https://drdrew.com/sponsors/elgato/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And welcome everyone. Uh, as usual, we'll be following you on restream and the rumble rants, and we are out there on Twitter spaces where you, if you raise your hand, you're agreeing to come up, ask question. Whoops. As questions, um, uh, and also be streaming out on YouTube, Twitter, Twitch, wherever we are, um, rumble. Where else are we?

Um, all the platforms you'll platforms you'll be appearing there. So today, let me get to where we're going today. Facebook. We love Facebook. That's right. Brian Dunkelman today is our guest. His new series or his new show is called Dunkelman, just debuted on Amazon Prime. He's an actor, comedian, and you know him from one of the first celebrities

to experience cancel culture after he departed from co-hosting the first season on American Idol. So Brian will be here to talk about that. He's got a lot of other stuff to get into as well in terms of surviving in this business, in that business, and what it all means, and how he's doing now. So in the meantime, we will also take your calls, so be sure to raise your hand. We'll bring you on up and I'll watch you on Restream and Rumble and

we'll get started right now. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals.

Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want help stopping, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. BetMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back

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please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey, everybody. Welcome. We appreciate you being here. Susan, you all right today? Everybody good? Doing great. Doing great.

We're looking over at the Rumble Rants where our friend Jehep has joined us again. Jehan, as we call him. And for something that's going on with my restream for some reason something is not right there uh yeah so that's right there we go now it's working uh some greetings for the tromos there that's what uh so what do we have to report on anything any interesting stories we should share with everybody before we get started? It's been an interesting couple of days. Yeah, we had a really good time with Gutfeld and Kat Temp and Tyrus.

We saw Tyrus and the show was a success, apparently. I think it was good, yeah. It's good to be in studio. I mean, to be actually in a live studio instead of doing it, you know, not being able to go and visit. Like that was the first time I had been back there for like two years. Right. So because of COVID, they wouldn't let anyone in the building. And they let me sit in the audience and you could see my foot over your head. Right. To the left of my head. If you ever saw my head, there was this shoe poking into my ear.

Thank God I wore cute shoes. Yeah, you can. Yeah. I wore cute shoes. Yeah, you can, yeah. I didn't know. So there you go. Well, I was crossing my legs, and my legs are long, and it just kind of was sticking out of the side, and it was right over your shoulder. Yeah, it looked like it was sticking out of my head, which was great. So, in any event, it's nice here. We're going to be here for more days.

So I made it onto the Gutfeld show at last. Your foot did. Yeah, I made a cameo. Good for you. Yeah, so if anyone would ask any questions about that, I about that happy to answer it uh or any other issues and it is the number one show on in late night and they're very proud of it their numbers are good and gutfeld works tirelessly to bring the numbers up over there so even though it's fox i know people some people are just anti-fox news but it is a fun show. It's a good show.

Yeah, that's why I specifically do that show. It's a good show. It's a fun show. I've known Greg for a long time. I used to do the Red Eye show back in the day, which was sort of this cult show. Now it's still sort of claimed by its cult audience from back in the day. I really didn't even think of it as Fox News. And much the way I don't think about Gutfeld is that.

And actually, I think the Gutfeld show, now that it's gone five nights a week, it's a little less harsh and a little more nuanced and a little funnier. Yeah, they're just making fun of people. Yeah, they're just making fun. Now, think about how many shows you've been on, Drew. Like every late night show you've been on. You've been on pretty much all of them. Except for the Tonight Show.

No, it was on Tonight Show. You did? You made it on there? I did it a couple different ways. You were on Kimmel. I did the Tonight Show when... My head. Name finding is so frustrating. Conan O'Brien was doing the Tonight Show.

Yeah, you've been on Conan, you've been on... No, but when he did the Tonight Show, I did the Tonight Show. And then you were on the other guy's show. Craig Ferguson. Craig Ferguson, you were on... I think about how many late night shows and daytime shows and channels and networks you've been like you've gone on every channel you've been on it you need a hollywood walk of fame star

i don't know it's just if i wasn't so cheap i'd get you one well stay stay cheap please much more much prefer that uh anyway so what but thank for being there. Thank you for supporting me. And I'm glad that you could come out with those guys and see how fun they are. Yeah, it was really fun. Oh, Sarah Ruth, could you tell us about this new Novavax vaccine for COVID? It is an excellent vaccine. It is a more traditional platform. It's an attenuated virus.

It's like a flu vaccine. It's really similar to that kind of technology. I will take that vaccine if they will allow it for boosters. I don't suspect it's going to have great activity against Omicron, and it does have some myocardial inflammation associated with it, but my bet is that it's not going to be quite as bad as the mRNA vaccines. So I think it's going to be a pretty safe bet. So we'll see. We'll see how it was approved last night. And they haven't given specific guidelines. I did, I think I,

did I point this out yesterday? Maybe I was talking to Adam about this, that Dr. Fauci did an interview on MSNBC. I think I did talk about this yesterday. And he was himself, he was the same guy that I've admired for three decades and uh he's being much more circumspect about everything including you know whether you wear masks or choose to wear masks and how you think about vaccination i still don't fully understand why they are pushing so hard uh on the vaccinations of the very young children i don't get that yet the science isn't there as i've said repeatedly on the show please follow venaay Prasad if you want up-to-date information. He's a brilliant oncologist. We've interviewed him here a few times, and he really gives good, solid opinions. Sarah then wants to

know, can we take Novavax if we've had the Moderna vaccine? I don't know yet. My expectation is yes, but I don't know yet. And really, the question we'll be asking ourselves is really, should we even take Novavax booster? Should we take Moderna booster? Or should we be waiting for the Omicron booster coming out in the fall? And generally, if you're over 75 years of age, you should get boosted up as soon as the boosters become available. We do know pretty clearly, the science is pretty clear there that the benefits are significant. Under that age, we immediately start to fall off a cliff in terms of following science. There's very little science. And as you get to children, there's almost no science in terms of there's not enough

adverse outcomes in kids to be able to create a meaningful cohort in a study group. There aren't enough severe ill even even significant illness so it's it's hard to show an effect of the vaccine so i don't quite know why it just seems like they they just are very um very much bonded the idea that uh without exception there's reduced risk from from the disease when you've had the vaccine now that reduced risk is dramatically changed by ba5 it's reduced the effectiveness of the vaccine against omicron was circumspect and now against ba5 it's almost non-existent it seems to be pretty bad but we do think we do think that it is reducing more serious illness but but I can't say that that's

categorically true. We just don't know. All right, let's go to my guest, Brian Dunkelman. Let's get him in here and talk about his new series. Enough COVID. Yes, let's get to Brian. We're done with the COVID. I know, you're down with it, but I can't see you. Your picture hasn't come in here yet. Come on now. I see you. Caleb, am I missing something? Do you hear me? I hear you. There you are. There you are.

All right, good to see you. So tell me about the series. Thanks so much for having me on. It's such a pleasure. Is it a multi-episode thing on Amazon Prime, or is it just a documentary? What is it? Don't really know what to call it it because it's not really a documentary it's not really a special uh basically

what it is is it's kind of a one-man show with no audience just delivered straight into camera and i shot it during the lockdown uh portion of the uh the pandemic so let's call it a documentary i guess i love it and what are we going to learn oh you're going to know uh more about me than you ever cared to it's basically from my childhood uh what led up to getting american idol obviously a lot of it's focused on my experience with american idol and uh then everything that happened afterwards, which, you know, I affectionately look back on the post-American idol days as the good old days compared to what was become to come in the later years. But drug addiction, alcoholism, divorce, kidnapping, where do you want to start? The kidnapping is the only thing that's not on the usual menu in my world. What's with the kidnapping?

Well, I have a nine-year-old son who is fantastic. But his mother started a pretty severe battle with alcoholism when he was just a baby, about 10 months old. And a couple stays in rehab at the same facility that you used to do celebrity rehab. So I'm very familiar with that place and, um, things just did not get, things did not get better. And I made the move of just taking him one day and I went back home to Western New York, uh, so that she could try and get help again. And, um, I got this keep in there for about six months.

And then, uh, the, the, the good news is everything is wonderful right now. My, my ex-wife has been sober for two years and everybody's thriving right now, but it was a rough journey. Great. It's good news. It takes what it takes. And it's, it's, it's usually not a straight line. Uh, people get a little frustrated. A lot of zigzags. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of zigzags. I think one of the dirty little secrets of addiction treatment is with severe alcoholism, I believe it's four years and five treatments before you are likely to get one year of sobriety. Yeah, they said that about five years is the magic number. Then you know you have a fighting chance.

Yeah, that's sustained sob no that's five years that's that's sustained that's sustained sobriety for five years yeah if you after five years your your risk of severe disease is about the same as the general population you really you're in pretty good shape at that point but in terms of people think they can just go to treatment everything's going to be great but no it typically takes multiple treatments and quite a bit of time before people get that first year under their belt. Yeah, there was a period of time where things were so bad that when she went to rehab and all I had to do was take care of an almost two-year-old all alone for 28 days, it was such a sense of relief. Oh, that's all I have to do now. So yeah, it's a heck of a journey.

My heart goes out to anybody who has to deal with it, but you know, so far so good. Were you guys still married at that point or did, was the divorce something that happened subsequently? Yes. Yes. We were, uh, we started dating around about six months before I got American Idol, which was, uh, so we started dating in about 2001.'re together for several years got married in 2007 and everything was fine you know we were both we're both drinkers you know I come from a place where that's what people do and you know happy hours are we gonna go to a movie we got to get a drink first mimosas breakfast you know um but it took a turn we we had a pregnancy that we lost at about 10 weeks, um, which was

pretty traumatic because we, we went in for the first ultrasound and that's a pretty magical experience. You get to hear the heartbeat, you get the picture. Well, a few weeks later, we went in for another ultrasound and, um, there, there was no heartbeat. So, uh, that was a very difficult thing to go through and something just triggered and she got pregnant again pretty quickly. And that's really when the problem just got out of control. During the pregnancy? No, after the pregnancy, although it was a very difficult pregnancy, she went on strict bedrest for the last 10 weeks, failing placenta. And it was very, very stressful. And he came six, seven weeks early and everything was fine and well you know about six months old i was going through a bag of baby clothes that a friend had

given me and i felt something i reached in and i pulled out a little airplane size empty bottle of vodka and then i reached in and i pulled out another one and then another one. And I pulled out 13. And that's kind of when life changed. How old was the baby then? This was about six months old. And then when he was about 10 months old, Thanksgiving, I was up giving him a bath, putting him to bed. And we had dinner with her family and everything was wonderful. And then I came downstairs and I found her unresponsive on the kitchen floor. And I rushed her to the emergency room and did some tests. And the doctor just came in and just looked at her

and said, how much do you drink? Because your liver enzymes are off the charts and you have brain atrophy. And then we're talking about a 30, you know, 29 year old woman. And he said, you're way too young to have brain. And that's, that's when the journey changed. And obviously, you know, I went home immediately, got all the alcohol out. I stopped drinking for about, you know, six, seven weeks. I was like, Oh, I can do it. But, um, it just got progressively worse and worse. And then rehab was necessary. And then, um, you know, the thing that saved, I think the safest was the pandemic. I got divorced February 5th, right before the pandemic hit. Um, I went to court. I think the thing that saved us was the pandemic. I got divorced February 5th, right before the pandemic hit. I went to court. I was, I had run out of money. I was representing

myself, but I ended up winning and we got her on sober link for, for a year. So that really helps because, you know, the problem with alcoholism, the only way you know that they're not drinking is if you have proof because lying is just part of the disease. And, you know, she couldn't go anywhere. She couldn't go anywhere. She had to be tested a year. And this pandemic really kind of saved my family. Did she have a DUI or something? What happened there?

She did get a DWI. Yes, she did. Her health started to deteriorate so badly. You know, her hands were shaking. She couldn't cut her meat. She couldn't button buttons. She was losing feelings in her hands and her fingers. And so I don't even really know how long this was going on or how bad it was.

Just an extremely high functioning, you know, addict at the point. Did you have to go to... But it was interesting because, oh God, you know, I went to the Al-Anon and we did the family stuff and it's an interesting thing. I felt, I felt resentment. Like, why do I have to go to these things? And then when you realize, you know, Al-Anon is not about the other person, it's about you, but you got to go through a lot of stuff when you're dealing with this and you know, how much is my fault? She went through a lot with American Idol. We were in the public eye. It wasn't just my life that got turned upside down. It was hers as well.

So, um, as I said, the good news is we are on great terms. We are divorced. Uh, but we, we just took our kid to Hawaii about four months ago. So we're, we're on that good of terms. So it's the, it's what's best for him to give him some kind of someone to the family. So what were you doing when American Idol came along? I have been doing stand-up comedy since I was 20 years old and moved to L.A., started getting little acting parts in Two Guys, a Girl, and a Pizza Place, Darm and Greg. I did a guest starring

role on friends and um i gotta deal with my own people forget who was in who was in the the pizza place that's right the cast i actually was on that show a couple times um but uh yeah i gotta deal with my own people um yeah ryan reynolds heard of him super nice. Even then I had like four lines. He's like, why are they wasting all this talent on four lines? I'm like, you don't need, people don't need to talk to you at all if you're doing four lines, but he was a really, really nice guy. So I got a deal for a sitcom with Castle Rock. And I also, I always joked, I'll get a deal for my own sitcom and the world will come to an end. Well, I got my deal September 7th of 2001. And then it kind of seemed like the world was ending. So we pitched the networks. It didn't

get bought. But a year later, they were doing this show at Fox called Pop Idol. And they remembered me and somebody was there when I pitched and asked me to come in. And I had not, I'd stopped going on any hosting auditions. So I said, well, I'll go in and I was requested. And I guess I'd seen 3000 people already. And I went in and I auditioned and I ended up getting it. 3,000. It's crazy. Yeah. And did you know Ryan before that? I did not. I tested and then with about six other people. And then I, it was just one of those magical moments where I got my first laugh and I had him. It was all improv, just pairing us up, giving us information to get across, go. And it was one of those lightning in the bottle situations. Well, that night I went immediately to a buddy's house and started drinking because it's a very, very stressful process.

I think I was three drinks in and I got a call from the casting director. We can't get a hold of your agent or manager. Can you come back at 7 a.m. tomorrow? And I thought, how can I do anything to screw this up? No way am I going, but it was just to have breakfast to meet this guy, Ryan Seacrest. I guess what they wanted, they did, they were too nervous to give this job to two guys without broadcasting experience. So Ryan had a very successful radio show. I'd done some TV gigs and we tested together. We were working the next day. The next day.

The next day we were on set working. Now, let me give you a little backstory. I was coming out of a pretty big period of heavy drug use. I was doing a lot of ecstasy. The kids call it Molly now and coke and, you know, always been a drinker. And just got to the point where I thought, I got to get a grip. At that point, I had nothing to lose, but I thought, I've got everything to not gain. So I stopped and I got clean.

And within probably a month, I booked three gigs, a commercial, an animated series on MTV. And this show show Pop Idol. So I went into that experience completely raw because I was starting to feel it. So that's the mental state that I went into the show with. So it was, it was definitely a challenge. Had you just stopped or were you actually in the program? No, I just stopped. No program. I just thought you got to get a grip i was able to do it and um you know i was still drinking but i wasn't doing drugs but um you know very early on when i found out really what the show was there was a point that first day where kid after kid was coming out just bawling i mean some of them are devastated

and i maybe because i'm a performer and i've been on so many auditions, my heart went out to them and I just didn't understand why they were doing that. And it was, it just didn't really get any better that whole first season. And, you know, this film is not about bashing American Idol at all. This is about me telling what I saw, what happened. So the audience can put themselves in my position. What would I have thought? What would I have thought? What would I have done?

Oh, boy, what would the audience member have done? How would you deal with this situation? Right, right. If you were me, how would you deal? I remember... Our son tried out for American Idol. Oh, no kidding. He had to go to Kansas.

Yeah, and we know Ryan Seacrest because we met you know back in the day and and we had changed from San Francisco to Kansas City because my son was going to go to Vanderbilt so we ended up in an audition with a bunch of people with banjos and and ukuleles and he sings opera right so he's sort of in the wrong place at the wrong time he didn't make it and he was devastated for like 24 hours and then he was fine because then he was going to go to college the next day but but literally his it was like he had just lost the biggest football game of the year you know what i mean yeah and he just was oh sure. Everything is so big. When you're a kid that age, everything is so huge. Right.

Now, first season of American... The first season, but you got to understand, they were intentionally finding kids that weren't good. They pre-screened every one of those kids. If you were okay, they didn't have any interest in you. But I saw people on Walkie Talkie, he's like, we got this girl, she's completely out of her mind, if you were okay, they didn't have any interest in you. But I saw people on walkie talkies. Like we got this girl, she's completely out of her mind. We're going to crush her. And I'm like, what are you, this girl is 16 years old. So you're, you're, you're intentionally letting these, let's just say in some way,

deficient children audition, and then you're crushing them. It just, um, I didn't, I didn't dig it to my knowledge. I guess American Idol doesn't do that anymore. And good for them. Everybody, you know, don't we all want to grow and evolve and get better and learn? And apparently they have too. But it was not that way season one, and I could not deal with it. For years, they had people who, well, it's called the Dunning-Kruger effect, which is where you think you sound good or you think you know what you're talking about,

but you have no idea. Uh, and it wasn't that first year when that Asian dude, uh, what was his name? He actually became famous. That was second year. That was William Hung. Second year. Hung, William Hung. Yes. And you know what? A couple of years, through a couple of years after that I was doing standup and I was on an airplane and, uh, William Hung was on my same flight and all I thought the

whole time was if the plane if this plane goes down I'm gonna get second billing in the obituaries to William Hung that's the final insult yeah American Idol star and oh oh, by the way. Oh, and that guy. Yeah, that guy that hosted. We don't remember his name. I do remember that first season. I remember when the two of you were hosting together. And in fact, again, my memory may be very... How long ago was that? It's got to be 15,000 years ago or something like that.

20. Yeah, 20 years ago. Wow. it's got to be 15 000 years ago or something like that 20 years ago wow uh but i felt as my memory is you sort of playing lead when you the two of you would come out you'd be the one holding the mic up to the the performer is am i remembering that correctly no you are not because as a matter of fact when ryan and i tested together i had to sit and wait for about two hours. And I was thinking, gee, I just, I'm losing my mind having to audition again. And people were running back and forth. They were actually doing his deal on the phone. And so to what I was told, he speaks first, he is on the left. He, you know what I mean? Kind of one-upping everything. No, he was more

of the straight broadcaster and I was supposed to be the funny one. The color. Okay. Got it. And what happened? What, what, what, uh, oh, by the way, who did you also do your test with? I'm just curious. Anybody else of note? You know what? The final guy, they put two of us together that had been in before. And I thought, okay, I'm with this guy again. This is a good sign. And they, uh, they took us around the corner. I didn't know who it was, but they, uh, they said to me, they said to the other guy, you drive the train. And then they looked at me and they said, you just, just back off a little bit. Cause I had them in a headlock and I was not letting go. And the two of us went in and it was just five points of information. You know,

it's a singing contest. You're in New York. It's the second round, a judge's birthday, whatever, go. And we did our bit. And then he went, and I have no idea what the fifth thing was. And he got a little bit of a laugh. And I thought, man, is that what did not, is that what sealed the deal for this guy? And that guy was in the news a little recently. His name mike richards from jeopardy wow someone else who got kind of canceled yeah so that should have been seacrest i often think what would life have been if the two of us if me and mike richards were the host interesting wow that would have been interesting i'm surprised they were even trying to have two male hosts like now like in news and everything they just they always have to have a man and a woman and now two white guys forget it yeah two white males right exactly well they were trying to replicate the british version uh two guys their names are ant and deck and they've been a team since childhood so they were trying to replicate this chemistry but you know they put a a radio DJ with a, with an R rated road comic is what they did. And it, um, it didn't really work. The problem was true is they wanted,

they wanted me to be more like him. And I'm like, that's not what I am. I'm a smart ass. I'm a comedian. I don't do the jumping around and I don't do the cheesy stuff. And that's what they wanted from him. And look, you know, are there some things in this film Ryan is not happy about? I hope not. I'm a different person. He's a different person. It's been a long time, but, um, you know, we, we had our problems. We did not get along. And I, I acknowledge my part of it. I, I had a lot of time to look back and rethink all this. What did I do wrong? But, um but um you know i wish the guy nothing but i kind of remember you guys rousing each other a lot right like oh yeah that was real

look i'm not going to sugarcoat this i talk about in the film there was one episode where we read off a giant teleprompter and um four times in a live broadcast ryan did not say what was on the prompter which was a direct setup for my line or my joke or my information. And the fourth time, you can go back and watch. He looked at me and said, say something, Dunk. And I said, what do you want me to say, Ryan? How about we'll be right back with more American Idol? We'll be right back.

And then I looked at him. I said, you're going to say one damn thing that's on the prompter tonight? When the show, when we went off the air, I had to be held back. My manager and my best friend were there. They picked me up. They threw me in an elevator so that I wouldn't cause a scene or go after him. But I don't know why this happened. I mean, there was a very competitive thing that went on between us, but it's all water under the bridge. He seems to be doing fine. Is that why things fell apart or was there something else that happened that was basically it you know our chemistry was not there i i have to admit i do believe i got

perceived as difficult i i like i said i was raw from the drug use my could not control my emotions um as a comic you have control over what you're saying it's your words they handed me this script that the executive producers wrote my bosses and it was so corny drew i went out in my car i cried i started crying i thought how am i gonna do this you know you want credibility listen as a comedian yeah i uh so it's really interesting so uh i you know dealt with corolla for all those years and they would hand him scripts once in a while and he would just go he goes this isn't funny he goes give me a second i'll come up with something read the script he's like no no you don't understand this is not going to work and you and history will not be he kept saying history will not be kind to this

and he said i said just let me just let me write let me just improv a little bit with this see if we can come up with something read the line yeah and uh so I think I offended them yeah well they they don't that back then particularly producers did not look kindly on talent sort of I'm surprised they let Ryan whatever he was doing off script because they they were sort of you know they felt they knew better and then i don't know if you remember this guy but i ended up broadcasting on radio with a guy named striker years after idle and he he tested right yeah i believe so a lot of people did yeah they offered him the job no he i didn't know that he got that far but but he he turned it down oh it's lame no he it wasn't it was an alternative it was pop and he won't work with pop well it was just he thought and he but but to his credit he was responding to

some of the stuff you were responding to it's like it's too corny it's too whatever you know but he he you know i don't think he actually got i don't know i don't know the history there but oh i remember he passed on it or the opportunity yeah it's more the opportunity because he and ryan were kind of at the same level of, you know, radio genius at that point. That's true. Well, see, I hired a couple buddies, a couple comedians. I hired friends of mine to do Punch-Up.

I could only come up with so many ideas for an intro for Randy Jackson. And I would get the script, fax it to them, and then they would punch it up. And I would pitch the joke right before show and then it got to the point i just do it i would just say what i wanted to do because i was just at that point why bother they don't know what's funny and i thought i did so they don't well you probably i'm certain you did certainly more than they because it's even people that are in charge of comedy on television don't really understand funny most of the time.

It's kind of a weird thing. I know Ryan was really nervous because I ran into him the second season and I said, you know, that Stryker had passed. And he said, I told him that he reminded me a lot of Rick Dees, like a young Rick Dees, because I knew him back in the 80s. And he says, oh, I hope I can be rich like him one day. I said, well, just be professional and show up on time. Like, don't, you know, don't do stupid disc jockey stuff. Like, disc jockeys are known for being kind of nuts most of the time. And he looked at me and, you know, maybe he took my advice.

I don't know. Well, let's. But he is, he, it was corny and it was really weird for radio people to be doing mainstream. You know, it just doesn't fit the profile. Yeah. I mean, dependent... Well, it worked out. Yeah, it worked out okay.

Yeah, he's fine. All right. So I want to hear more about... Yeah. You said a comment a minute ago I want to drill into a little bit after this break, but that you looked at the cancellation that you went through. In retrospect now, it's the good old days. Am I framing that correctly? Okay. I want to hear more about that. Yes. Well, because of what happened with my wife and my son, the idol was a walk in the park compared to what I went through with that.

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hours the immediate effects the eye creams are amazing listen to susan everybody she knows what she's talking about um someone on uh everything's amazing twitch here uh unfortunately because your name's in color i can't read it against the dark out in the dark background on my screen um he says dubba dubba dubba you wb and what he's referring to is some of the silly that adam and I used to have to say. Believe it or not, Loveline on MTV was first a Fox show. It was going to be a Fox late night show. And we had cleared 90% of the country. And we actually were going around to our affiliates all over the country. And we were doing promos and meeting people and that kind of thing.

What happened was the company who distributed us called new world got bought by fox because new world had a bunch of owned and operated stations that fox wanted they got those stations and they cancelled all the programming and we were part of that cancellation but we were out on the road although we were a fox we were rolled out over fox network there were some cities didn't have a Fox station back in those days, and we would end up on the WB. And then they had that stupid frog from the Warner Brothers cartoons, and they would stand in front of cameras.

I'll never forget this one. They would make us repeat over and over again. it's the dub a dub a dub a dub a dub a dub a dub a dub a dub a dub a dub a dub a wb and again adam just goes okay well that's that's awful this is history will not this has begun in two seconds and history will not be kind to it and uh it was gone in two seconds and we have made fun of it ever since so there we are the guest of course brian dunkelman brian's still with us the new series is dunkelman which what do we call it? Do we call it a stand-up, Brian? Do we call it a show? Let's call it a special. Let's call it a special on Amazon Prime. Special. I love it. His own special on Amazon Prime. And we were just talking about how things kind of unwound over there at American Idol. What happened? You know what I

liked? I got to take advantage of this drew i haven't been in therapy in about seven years which is a horrible mistake but all right you're basically the dr joyce brothers of our day and i know i'm dating myself by saying that but like i want to get into what what i went through because i worked out this film was the best therapy that i've ever had and it kind of leads to something i'm going through now that I'd like your opinion on. But in the beginning of the film, I talk about my father died when I was 11 years old. I'm the youngest of 10 children. It was right after I turned 11 and something happened. Just briefly, there was a baseball seminar and they put all the kids in two different groups. Our school district was two towns, Ellicottville, Great Valley. My father had helped,

volunteered to help coach. Well, when they split us up in the teams, I was supposed to go to one school district was two towns, Ellicottville, Great Valley. My father had helped, volunteered to help coach. Well, when they split us up in the teams, I was supposed to go to one side, but my best friend at the time was like, come on, man, we got to play together today. And so I went to the other team and the look in my father's eyes when I walked to the other side and he didn't really say anything to me on the way home and and drew he died the next day so i have i have dealt with that i've carried that guilt i've carried that shame and that that's been that was basically uh the defining moment in my life was my father's death this is what led to my early alcohol use probably 11 or 12 is when i started drinking smoking pot at an early age the drug used before i had all the drug use during, but that guilt that I've carried my whole life. Um, now after American Idol and, um, basically I

found out in a hotel room in Connecticut, my best friend was making his college coaching debut at D three school. All my best friends from high school were there. We're in my room and we're getting drunk before the game. And he is on in the background. Well, all of a sudden they put Ryan Seacrest picture and they're like, Ryan Seacrest just resigned for upwards of $1 million for season two of Idol. Still no word on co-host Brian Dunkelman. And then they put my picture up and it's just silent. And then we all at the same time burst out laughing. Like what the hell am I doing on television in the first place? This isn't real. Let's just keep, we just keep drinking. And what had happened is they had re-signed Simon and they had re-signed Ryan and they

let me and Paul and Randy twist. And I started losing it. I was so like, I was getting crushed in the press. I waited a couple of weeks and I thought, I'm done. This is my sign. I'm moving on because I really did want to be an actor and I really didn't want to do that show anymore. And when the second season premiered, you know, it went from here to 33 million people.

Coupled with the fact that I could not get representation. I fired my manager and agent. Nobody would touch me. As one manager said, you've got the stink on you. He said, nobody believes you quit. And the show became so huge. I could barely get out of bed. I so depressed i could not function in fact i did have a road gig and i remember being on an airplane and hitting a little turbulence and thinking just go down just go down and end

this because and then like i say i wasn't suicidal i think i've got too big an ego to ever go through with it but i was suicide adjacent and i saw a psychiatrist and i said i don't want to do i don't want to talk just give me something i need drugs to take this away and unfortunately she she prescribed me paxil i'm somebody who was kind of she diagnosed me as as bipolar too and paxil is not what you're supposed to go on and i went into hypomania and i i lost it for a good year. Really, really out of control, drinking out of control, drugs out of control, gambling. I was driving around in my convertible on the freeway, like weaving in and out of traffic, like I was playing pole position. I just spun out. And of course, those were all the opportunities

that were coming from idle, did a couple of pilots, but I burned a lot of bridges and and that's what sunk me into a a deep dark hole that i was in for quite a while um and that's that's what i've been trying to dig out of ever since finally started working a little bit and i had the realization i'm not going to make it big again but i get a little acting part here a little voice over here a corporate gig i'm making a living in the entertainment industry and i let it all go. And then that's what happened when the alcoholism of my son's mother started. And then nothing mattered. Nothing in the world mattered other than keeping this kid safe. And as I said, I just snatched him out of preschool one day and I got on a plane, I left. And it's all been about trying to recover from all of that,

um, these last couple of years. But when this film, this was during the pandemic, it was my birthday, June 23rd. I had decided I got to get out of town. I got to go somewhere. I went to Palm Springs cause there was a couple of hotels and golf courses open. I got a call that morning from a guy that had basically called my manager. My manager said, he wants to do a life, you know, your, your life story. And, um, we had the lunch meeting and, um, shot the theater, but I relived every single painful part of my life. And in the editing process, I had to watch it over and over and you try to detach, but every time the loss of the baby, everything that I went through and it really I started to

heal and I started to gain empathy for my son's mother and if you would have told me I could even have been in the same room with her I would have said you're crazy cut to now you know we go to the Rose Bowl for the 4th of July fireworks we do things with him as a family because I was able to forgive her but um my mother passed away four months afterwards after we, uh, and no, after we finished the, uh, the film. So she died a year and a half ago, it was about three months after we shot and going through all of that and reliving the death of my father. And then I knew when my mother died, she was 91. It was coming at some point, but, um, I knew I was going to have to relive the father dying too.

So I had something kind of pretty amazing happen. I just wouldn't, if I can just tell this story, I got a call from my sister. My mother was in assisted living. It's COVID mom's fading fast. She was on the phone or she was with her in the room. Thank God this place let my sister be in. So my mother was not alone. I was on the phone all day. They came and went. She was still there. My sister went home to get some sleep, came back the next day. I was on the phone all day. Mom was still there. And the nurses were like, we don't understand what's going on. There's no way that she should still be here. And as my sister left to go home, one of the nurses says, sometimes they'll hold on until they hear one particular voice.

Well, my mother had heard nine out of her 10 children's voices. My brother was in Ecuador. He was out of the country. He had spotty service, but he knew what was going on. He just wasn't responding. And I thought, you know what? He was with my mother when my father died. And I know that screwed him up.

And I thought, this is too painful for him. But I, instead of getting angry, I texted him. I said, I have a theory. I told him what the nurse said. I said, I think it's really important that you call your sister right effing now and let mom go. The next morning he got the message. He called my sister immediately. She put the phone to my mother's ear and she heard his voice and she died about 20 minutes later. And my sister said that the next song that came on in the room on the Sirius radio station was come fly with me by Sinatra. So you can have your idea of what a coincidence is. Bottom line that night, I don't know how else to say this. My mother came to me and I just started bawling. I hadn't cried yet. And I just looked up. I said,

I'm all, I'm okay. I'm okay now, mama. And I'm not kidding. The next day I woke up, I was not sad. I was elated. I danced around my apartment and listened to Frank Sinatra and sang at the top of my voice all day until I was too tired to stop. And I had to stop the next day. Same thing. Just this energy coursing through me. My sister called me. She said, I don't know what's going on, but I am flying. I said, so am I. I said, I feel like I'm on drugs and I know all too well what that feels like. And Drew has not gone away. I don't have depression anymore. It's gone. So either I had some kind of miracle happen or i've had a psychotic break and have been in a one and a half year long manic episode because i i don't know how to be happy but i'm happy now

and i'm trying to harness this so i i do have concerns that i'm filming louisen off the cliff here but there's been no crash no i'm a little i'm a little confused wait what was a year and a half no a year and a half i have been my mother died a year and a half ago since the month but since then she died when i had that experience i have not had depression and i have had my my hair stands on end when i talk to my sister on the phone. I don't know how else to describe this, but I feel like it seems to me the pain I carried around for my entire life when my father died, it's now gone.

And I don't know if this is some kind of divine intervention or if I've had some kind of break or if the work that I've gradually done has just led me to this place of recovery. But Susan wants to jump in because she's a spiritualist she has a million thoughts i'm sure no no no you tell us your well you packed a lot into that brian there's a lot of stuff going on there so let me yeah let me kind of uh let me just parse out some of the things the the the editing of the film right it's almost like you did your own expose like you

did exposure therapy exposure therapy does help people reduce the power of certain things there's various kinds of exposure therapies out there usually it's thought of as something we do for anxiety or obsessive-compulsive disorder but it makes sense to me you know it would also have potentially some good effect on managing things you had a lot of strong feelings about. So that makes sense to me. The psychiatrist that put you on the Paxil and made you hypomanic, did you at least one favor, which is that now you know you have bipolar 2 because that's sort of diagnostic, right? The fact that you developed that uh how was that period was it i mean why did

they keep you on the paxil why didn't they give you a mood i was lying i was lying to her because you were using all right you're not drinking no i'm not drinking i'm not doing coke no not gambling i'm doing all of those things because i felt incredible got it got it because you liked it you liked how it all felt stuff stuff too. I loved it. Yeah, right. Who doesn't like being high? So you have to, no, I get it. And you have to be, and so one of the questions then is something re-triggering a mood swing right now.

Is this all part of a mood swing? And underneath that is a sort of a philosophical question, which is sort of like who cares as long as you're moderated and you feel well. And if it was triggered, then the other layer to this is that many times when parents die, the child is relieved of a lot of things that he or she often can't shake until the parent is gone. And guilt and shame can be those sorts of things. Usually not grief though. So I want to hear a little more, if you don't mind, about your dad. And what did he die of? He just died very suddenly one day. He worked at our school. He was in charge

of the transportation. He was transportation supervisor, ran all the buses and all the schedules. I guess it was a very hot day. He was working with some chemicals, some cleaner, and I guess he was talking to somebody in the parking lot, turned to walk away and dropped. And the blow to the head is what was the official cause of death. He just never came back. So he fainted, he fainted. And then secondarily the head and the bleeding in the brain, that kind of thing. that's that's what the official cause of death was right and and that's you know for 11 year old i mean it doesn't get worse right i mean it's an awful thing no matter what and the fact that you clung to this

this memory of having i guess let him down is what the way you experienced that right maybe humiliated him in a little bit of a way you know you're helping coach on one side your kid goes to the other you're you're a dad now let's say you have a little son well let's just say can i tell you what a cathartic experience i'm about to have because in two years i will be the same age my father was when he passed away and my son will be exactly the same age I was when it happened right and and he will do some screwball shit and you'll think about it you know what I mean and you'll think exactly nothing about it it'll just be part of your parenting experience. So even though you as the 11-year-old have made this humongous deal out of this thing, that even if your dad had lived another month, he probably wouldn't remember.

Or if he did, it would be just some sort of, like an explanation or what, you know what I mean? It wouldn't be that meaningful to him. He was just happy to be there on the field with you. You know how that is, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just, it might not have been that big a deal to him i'm sure it wasn't i'm positive you think about it you're a dad think about it and so when are you going to going to forgive your 11 year old self is the question i mean it's an 11 year old i'll tell you when i did you're not an adult

when drew i did forgive myself when i helped deliver my mother to him i was like i think dad's got to forgive me now i whether or not there is anything to this but in my head yeah i helped her transition and i am proud of myself and i forgive myself. That's the one thing about this film. It's a big part about forgiveness, forgiving other people, but most importantly, forgiving myself for everything. Yep, I get it. I totally get it. I totally get it. And I think you had some unresolved grief lingering around because of that unclosed guilt loop you were in.

You're stuck in that guilt loop so you can never get on with the grief. And probably you were relieved not just of the guilt but of the grief also. And that's a pretty cool thing. Well, also when somebody is 91 and you're waiting, you know it's going to happen between the age of 85 and 91. And you see them slowly deteriorate. And you know that they're not happy where they are. Or they get into a state where they're not able to communicate

and they just don't want to be alive or whatever. There's so much weight on the family just saying, you know, you're going to be better in your new world. You know, once you pass, you know they're going to be happy. Oh, she was ready. For years she was ready. She was suffering're going to, she was ready for years. She was suffering from dementia relief. Yeah.

The dementia, especially my mother had dementia. And the day she died, I had that same feeling like suddenly all this guilt lifted. And I, I, all the things that she always like made me feel bad about myself about, I just forgot. Like I just said, Oh,

I can live my own life now. But not only that, yeah. But you just also feel such happiness that there's they're warm and in a higher place, you know? That's the thing my sister and I, my, my sister said, I think people are getting upset when I see them in town. They're like, I'm so sorry about your mother. And she's like, she did it. And people are like, what are you crazy? And we both feel this way to the day. And you know what? I have not been doing standup. I just started getting up and doing standup again because I have to headline in two weeks at her memorial. Her

memorial is in a little over two weeks because we waited until it was safe and it's never going to be safe again, apparently. So we're doing it July 30th and I'm speaking and, and I, I, I am a little worried. Like what's, is this going to go away as soon as I am done speaking? I don't, I don't really know, but you had mentioned spiritualism. Can I just throw in the fact that I started seeing 1111 all the time a couple years ago. And then all of these dominoes and these synchronicities have led me to where I am right now. It's undeniable. I never believed in any of that crap. Do you have any opinion about that?

Because it's a thing. Oh, yeah. Numbers are signs. Okay. You're getting little notes from above. You can come on to this other show yeah i would love to i want to talk about this you can talk to your mom and dad um i worked with a lot of psychics over i did a podcast for about four years about psychic mediums and you know they

are really good grief counselors i gotta say like if you that is the one thing i have felt about them that they can relieve people out of grief. One of my psychics, Cindy Kayser, is not only on television, but she became a psychotherapist as well. So getting a psychic psychotherapist is really a good thing. Yeah, because, you know, you can you can connect with your loved ones, you know, because our brains are all connected still after people go to the other side, I think. And you know, number numbers come through, um, Paulina, my daughter, they were born on 11, 11. And so like every time an 11, 11 comes up, they'd like have to show me, but you know, like my dad's address was seven Oh seven. And every time I see that, I think of him. And I know that I wake up at 707 in the morning almost every day.

And I look at the clock and it's 707. I'm like, hi, Dad. But you're not crazy, okay? So you have to realize that Drew is a doctor, so he doesn't really like to talk about this stuff because it's all subjective, you know. But if you know it in your heart, you feel it in your soul, you know, it's real. And if you have a little conversation with your mom and dad, you know, when you're in bed at night before you go to bed, they can hear you. They're still there.

That's my interpretation. And they will visit you and sometimes they'll make water come out of the ceiling and electronics shut down all of a sudden when you have a side in the house so yeah don't do that all right so i've got some questions for for uh all right sorry i had to go on so you were one of 10 kids where were you yes the youngest the youngest of 10 i'm the baby and was that was that Where were you in the lineup? Yes, the youngest. The youngest of 10. I'm the baby. And was that a difficult part of the lineup?

No. Was it tough to be the youngest? Phenomenal. It was phenomenal, which I'm very close to my youngest sister, probably my closest sibling, but she's the one who kind of took care of me a lot because my mother and father, as my mother says, Brian's just the one that we didn't expect to come along. So you were expecting nine, but you know, they shot till they were out of bullets.

That's what they did, but they would go down to the Legion. My father was a veteran and they were very active in that life. And my sister did, uh, took a large part in the, in the raising, uh, of me, but you know, I had an amazing child that my brother told me, I never knew this. They used to line up to read to me at night. My parents let them name me. I walked at a very early age because I was a toy. And the thing that was cool is I was always known as Little Dunk. And people that knew me because they knew my family, but I didn't know them.

I just dug that at a very early age. Where was this? I don't know if that had something to do. Where was that? In Western New York, Ellicottville, New York is where I grew up. Very small town, great place. But I liked that. You know me, but I don't know you. So I don't know if that was part of what led me into this business. I think what led me to stand up was to try and fill the black hole from my father. That's why I got into this. The void, the void. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And, and so I have a couple of questions. Anybody else in your family have bipolar or substance issues? We are pretty sure one of my brothers

does. We're actually laughing about it because we're on a text chain and it's nonstop, nonstop. And it happens to be the brother that I got to call. So I think he has had an experience also, and I don't think he knows what to do with it. I'm looking forward to seeing him and speaking to him about it, but I think we all got a little touched, but he's, I think so. I had a couple of uncles that were, you know, a little touched. That's the best way to describe my brother.

And I'm a little touched too. I mean, you have to be to be in his else and so so back to the american idol days were you doing drugs or alcohol during the filming of that first season at all i was drinking um heavily but uh i do i do acknowledge in the film that i slipped once and the night before a live show. Look, I was, you know, after a couple of cocktails and somebody says, hey, we should get some Coke. And I'm like, well, here's some money. Go get it. That sounds like a great idea.

And I did Coke and I finally I think I fell asleep at 7 a.m., went to work, blocking, rehearse, live show. And I pulled it off. And then that night I went to a buddy's house and he had some coke. I lost sound. Is that just an R? I'm still here. Oh, here we go. Hold on one second. Brian, one second. There you go. You're back. Say it again. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I did, I did coke the night before a live show. I, I fell I fell asleep at probably 7.00 AM, went in, rehearsed, blocked, did live television, uh, pretty cracked out and pulled it off. And that night I went to a buddy's house and there were a couple of people there and while he had some Coke and I did what

any sane normal person would do, I did the same goddamn thing again. And I stayed up doing Coke all night, two nights in a row, did live television the next night, two nights in a row did live television the next night two times in a row so um but that was the only time i slipped and then once the show was over it would forget it it was right back into it and you know it might have had to some of your irritability with ryan i suspect it might have not been just the the feeling things when you were detoxing but then you started using again it's that's a roller coaster man and doing it in the meantime and you're and you're riding a brunking bronco and how old were you at the time i was 30 i i do say i'd like to think i was just young and stupid but i wasn't that young

i mean i was 30 years old pretty young still young. How did you come out to Los Angeles, to the West? How did you, how did you come out? Oh, I came out, I moved to Colorado. My brother was in the air force and he was out of the country for a couple of years. I started doing standup when I was 20 years old. And, um, uh, a couple of years later, I, I went to Colorado to visit him, got into a club there. And, um, he said, why don't you move here? You can live with us and my kids and I'll get you a job at the golf course. So I worked at the golf course. I'd get there at 5 30 AM. And then I'd be at the comedy club every night till close picking brains and trying to get on stage and meeting every comic. And I was seen by a casting scout from Disney. And then, uh, I moved actually very close to my 25th birthday. I was there for about a year.

And the day I got in, she was like, I told you to kept getting, kept telling you to get out here. I lost my job. And so I was like, well, I'm here. And then that's how I got to LA and then just got into the comedy scene and just tried to figure it out. Interesting. And where's your wife from? How did you meet her? I grew up in in pasadena met through a friend that i befriended at the uh at the improv one of the guys that was one of the showroom managers uh it was one of her friend his friends from boston college so that's we just started dating pretty much right away and then her life got turned right upside down with mine. And how was she affected by American Idol? Um, it was a lot of stress for me and her. She absorbed a lot of it. Look, we, we met the first

night we hooked up, we were on ecstasy, you know, so we did drugs beforehand and then we got clean and then it was just the alcohol. Like, you know, um, it was a lot to deal with. It was a lot. I mean, it was, it was wonderful too. We, we got to go out to really expensive dinners and go on trips, but, um, I was not fun to be around. And especially after that second season or at the second season premiered, he came home to find me on the, on it's it's there's symmetry because she came home to find me on, on the kitchen kitchen floor curled up with a bottle of bourbon bawling saying i'm just i'm gonna kill myself i didn't know what else to do i just did not want to be alive anymore so she was there for me and then cut to all the years later i find her

on the floor so it's it's kind of almost a beautiful love story this film as well and and take me forward from now what are you looking forward to what's Brian Dunkelman's life like how does it how is this this special affected you what's what's the future look like well I can tell you let's go back to the when I told you I started seeing 11 11 everywhere and I thought I'm done making my own decisions everything I do is wrong I'm just going to put my hands up and enjoy the ride and so I'm not I'm literally not kidding I'm just going to put my hands up and enjoy the ride. And so I'm not, I'm literally not kidding. I'm following the breadcrumbs and they've led me to that guy, uh, contacting me about doing the film. We do the film. I put the trailer online. Somebody from a production company

sees it. Oh, I've always loved that guy contacted me. I'm in development for my own television show right now. It's basically kind of a, thank you so much and I mean it's it almost feels like like something happened at CERN and I got shot into another reality because I'm not miserable I have this joy in my heart and I'm just following my instincts and when and when you give yourself over to the universe if something doesn't happen that you want to happen, you have no justification for being upset. If you're going to say, well, that's the way it's supposed to be, I'm going to pivot immediately. And that's not what I used to do. And it's what I'm doing now. I got a call out of the blue three months ago, just offering me an acting role. The first time I've acted since I took my son, it was six and a half years ago my reps dropped me and um she just it was an offer and

in the name of the show second chances all these synchronicities they're too much to deny it's it's it's it would make a good feature film i'm still writing the script on that but i don't know if i want to relive anymore but i'm really looking forward to we're going to start shooting um for this show and then hopefully somebody will think it's good and it'll be on the air we see stuff like this i understand we see stuff like this all the all the time um in people who uh let go you know it's faith you it's just it's leap of faith it's sort of letting things go and having faith that that things will be you, that you're sort of flowing with the universe rather than trying to control it. And, you know, if you're an addict or alcoholic or use a lot of drugs, I mean, controlling becomes the whole thing. It's a lot of what you spend your time doing. this is not going to sound quite right because it's not quite what I mean, but you're not,

humility is the word that comes to my lips, but it's more that you're not self-absorbed. Does that make sense? In the sense that you're not in your pain and you're not in your guilt and you're not in all these things that make you self-absorbed. No, I'm not self-absorbed. I get what you mean.

I'm a big fan of myself. Let's not, I'm not a narcissist. I'm a big fan of myself. Let's not, I'm not a narcissist. I just, I really like me. Um, but I am not a prisoner of my own thoughts anymore. Right. By the way, meditation is what saved me. I started meditating the first meeting that I went to my wife at that. She was my wife at the time, it was a meditation themed AA meeting. I went with her, they closed, they shut the lights off, I meditated for the first time, and I was literally high when I walked out of there. And I thought there's something to this. None of this would have been

possible without, I've been, it's been seven years now, I've been meditating every day. Like TM or just mindfulness or what are you doing? Anything special? Usually, usually just mindful. And if there there's distractions i made up a little mantra but like it's just mindful meditation and breathing and it's i don't think i could live without it at this point yeah the breathing awesome yeah it is awesome uh and and again but by i want i want to put a finer point on the self-preoccupied comment i made if you're in pain like put your hit your finger with a hammer sometime and tell me if you aren't thinking about yourself you know when you're in pain you become naturally self-preoccupied that to me that this notion of people being

self-preoccupied is is a negative to me it's a natural result of being guilt and unresolved grill unresolved um grief and all these things you've been describing and the recent traumas with your wife and of course you're going to be self-preoccupied it couldn't be otherwise it's just the way it is but you but it feels like talking to you now based on how you were describing things even a year ago like this is lifted and you're able to have that faith and move forward and forgive yourself all It really has. That's what they talk about in the program. Yeah. I mean, whatever your higher power is, you know, I don't have the answers.

Anybody who thinks they have the answer is absurd. You're a crazy person, even if you're an atheist. I mean, come on. Nobody knows what this is. Here's another thing. It could be your mother. Your higher power could be your mother in the afterlife. You know, now you feel like you can connect to something, once you think your power could be your mother in the afterlife, you know,

now you feel like you can connect to something. Once you think what Brian? Well, basically I, I'm kind of taking, I'm doing what the universe tells me to do. And at this, if it's,

if it's my mother giving me signs through the universe, then maybe my mother is guiding me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm not going to stop on this path because everything is going right. But when she look, five of us were in town, five of us live in our hometown. And when she was buried, five watched on a zoom and five were there.

And not once did I feel an ounce of anger or resentment. Why did this happen during COVID? Why couldn't I be there? Why couldn't I have been holding your hand? Didn't have any of it. So grief in the absence of anger, what a concept. It's a beautiful thing. It was really, and I still have not hugged five of my siblings. So a couple of weeks from now is going to be really cathartic for me. But I'm just going to keep going on because it's working and my son is thriving and his mother is thriving. And life is so bad and i i have to admit this it was so bad i prayed for my son's mother to die

that's how bad it was and to think just imagine that the son your son's mother and to now have everything be so wonderful of course i'm living in gratitude not resentment because life was so bad and now it is so beautiful and i'm just going to keep living in it well i think that's a good place to sort of so proud of you roll to a stop it's a great story and i can't wait to see the the i can't wait to see the special you just just search for it on Amazon Prime. Just go ahead and put in Dunkelman, D-U-N-K-L-E-M-A-N. All right, Brian. Really a pleasure to talk to you. One last question from me.

Have you ever thought about going in and embracing more thoroughly a recovery program like your wife did? I don't mean in treatment. I mean like just going to some 12-step meeting, that kind of thing. Yeah, I should have kept going to the Al-Anon that kind of thing yeah you know i should i should have should kept going to uh the allen on but i'm like i'm taking care of a toddler i don't have time for this you know what i mean but i do want to i want to go further with all of this all of the self-recovery all of the more deeper into meditation deeper into you know what is really happening what is the fabric of reality what you know all these negative thought patterns that i'm releasing that's i didn I didn't get canceled. I was, I was self-destructive

here. Can I just end maybe how about this theory for a realization, the guilt and the shame that I felt when my father died, did I put myself on this path because I felt like such a victim that I wanted to get as famous as I could so that I could self-sabotage and be a victim to the whole world. That's the thought that I've had that I it's, it's kind of deep to wrap my head around. Did I do this to myself to punish myself? That makes sense. And it makes sense.

It makes sense. It is deep and it suggests you have a lot of ability to um shape your destiny so hopefully the move forward is in a in a much more productive growth yeah it feels good it feels like i'm on the right track bud yeah but because you you were you did do that and that the fact that you did that do that suggests you can do a lot of stuff so i like the fact that you're willing to accept the fact that you screwed it up for yourself you know what i mean like the american idol that's why when when ryan said i he was shaking in his shoes he was like i can't believe i'm doing i said don't fuck it up man just be professional and don't if you want to be you want to be like rick de, be like Rick Dees. Be a pro.

Don't goof around. Show up early. Do your thing. And you know what? It isn't that hard, but when you're in your 30s or 20s or whatever and you work in Hollywood, you can screw up a lot. It's just the way it is. And everybody had jobs.

Like I remember working at the radio station with these guys at k rock because i was there when i was 20 and and they were they were all goofballs you know and and rick dees was i worked with rick dees too i did a i did i worked on solid goal that is anymore well he was a he was the number one like dj in los and, um, and I did a little skit with him because I used to use models and put them on television and stuff. And I ended up doing it cause I couldn't find anybody that day. And I was so impressed with his, with his professionalism when he was on the set, you know, he was on time. He was super good at his job. You know, he was a professional, but he was also young like us and he wasn't, all the guys i worked with at k-rock were just numb nuts i mean they were just goofballs you know they were always high they were showing up late they like i did i did like 90 shows with

the poor man and he was late to every single one of them i was there early with like 10 girls in bikinis and he'd come prancing in the door a half hour after the show was supposed to start and i you know but there's an incentive to get to work early it's when there's balls come on we did it we did a funny thing about disco duck and my girls worked with him too but i it's just really funny because because when i saw ryan i was like ryan you just gotta take the ball and run with it you know and i but i've only because i knew that you know maybe i didn't know you but maybe if i had given you that advice it would have been helpful too i don't know i just think this was i was like the old lady at that point brian was busy with some with cocaine and alcohol yeah Yeah. That was my point. Massive guilt and a plan to self-destruct.

I was spinning some plates. Well, I married a doctor. Sorry, go ahead. No, I was just going to say, that's really what I hope people take away from this film is everybody

screws up. Everybody makes mistakes. Every, you know, some not as big as mine, but you know, everybody has their own cross to bear. Everybody has their own pain and everybody's been low and maybe people can see this and be like well god if that guy came out of it what's my excuse i just hope people are inspired by this yep they

will be brian i'm sure of it it's right by the camera i'm looking at the comments uh in my chat rooms and streams here and then they're they're impressed right now they're they're enjoying this and they feel well we've lifted up we've interviewed a lot of people over the years. We used to do a podcast called this life. He lived with Bob Forrest and drew, and we've heard this story a lot, you know, of how they've come out the other side, but, and nobody's immune to it. You know what I mean? It might be your son. It might be your daughter. It's just, it's out there. So you have to know, you know know what the signs are and your mother probably tried everything to help you and couldn't do anything you know and you probably when she died you probably felt like she was finally but

my bet is from where you sit now and the adventure you're on presently you don't you don't have a lot of regrets i'm imagining i mean no and let memories and things, but not a lot of regrets. Go ahead. Here's the thing. Once you make the determination that, okay, I don't know what you think, but I think there may be multiple realities happening. Maybe at the same time, we jump in and out. If every possible outcome exists in an alternate reality somewhere in the multiverse, how can you experience regret? You're doing it somewhere else else you're just not aware of it everything that could happen you're doing there's a reality where i'm worth 450 million dollars and you're talking to secrets there's a whole there's a whole theory of physics the the many worlds hypothesis in physics is

exactly that that every time there's a quantum measurement the world splits in two all right guys i gotta wrap this up right here brian we could talk more and if you have more to promote let me know we'll talk more and i can't wait to go see the uh the amazon prime special thank you brian website anything else you like of course a website anything else you like to refer people to brian dunkelman.com brian dunkelman on twitter at the brian dunkelman.com, BrianDunkelman on Twitter, at the Brian Dunkelman on Instagram, BrianDunkelman TikTok, all the things. And I just, I really appreciate you having me on. I've been a fan for a long time and it's really cool to meet you and talk to you.

Pleasure is ours. Hope we'll see more of you. Thanks, Brian. Take care. And for everyone else, we're going to wrap this up. We got to actually go run, meet somebody. Are we going to be here tomorrow? We have no guests. Well, you know, well you know we have tomorrow at 12 right we had a guest tomorrow but we do not now have that guest so okay but we will probably be doing a 12 this time here we're not

gonna do monday so we're probably gonna do some sort of call-in show tomorrow yeah just callers so uh we will i don't know what time though uh because i have to do the thing at 12 30 oh oh it was three o'clock our time hang on let me look at the right i think that's what caleb said okay caleb are you still with me yes uh it's tomorrow three uh yes tomorrow at three o'clock three three our time so why did the sound cut out do you know uh there's just a there's a weird delay that's happening between here and New York. And so what you're seeing on your screen, you're hearing everybody at the right time,

but what you're seeing on your screen, Drew, is probably about between 10 seconds, and it went all the way up to three minutes behind. Like whenever I put the note on there that was saying multiverse theory, it stayed on your screen for a long time, and it didn't even appear. It was like you were in a whole different conversation. It was the spirit of Brian's

mother. And we also lost sound for a second. You know what? I need to unplug the cam link and plug it back in again. Just reset everything. Do you know what that sound glitch was all of a sudden? Yeah, it was the same thing. It's a ghost.

All right, guys. We got to gotta run out we thank you all so much for being here we'll about noon pacific three o'clock we're going to go have dinner with our sober daughter yes that is the plan and we're already late so no i i changed the the you're okay you don't have to hurry all right so i won't hurry but i will say farewell see you tomorrow midday oh ask dr drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor,

and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.