Ask Dr. Drew - Censor Or Die: EU Threatens Elon Musk For Trump Interview In Blatant US Election Interference w/ Jonathan Turley & Dr. Darshan Shah – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 393

Episode Date: August 18, 2024

World-renowned law professor Jonathan Turley named the “European Digital Services Act (DSA) as one of the greatest assaults on free speech in history” after European Commissioner for Internal Markets and Services Thierry Breton (“one of the notorious figures in an anti-free speech movement”) threatened to censor X because of Elon Musk’s live interview of Donald Trump. In 2022, the EU and Thierry Breton also threatened to ban X (formerly Twitter) entirely if Musk restored protections of free speech. “Under the DSA, users are ’empowered to report illegal content online and online platforms will have to act quickly.’ This includes speech that is viewed not only as ‘disinformation’ but also ‘incitement.’ Jonathan Turley is a law professor at George Washington University, holding the Shapiro Chair for Public Interest Law since 1998. He has served as counsel in high-profile cases, represented members of Congress, and testified before Congress over 100 times, including during the impeachments of Presidents Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. He has written for major newspapers and worked as a legal analyst for the world’s top news organizations. A study by Judge Richard Posner ranked Turley as the second most cited law professor among public intellectuals. Find more at https://jonathanturley.org and follow him at https://x.com/jonathanturley Read Jonathan Turley’s new book “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage” at https://amzn.to/3X13dmx Dr. Darshan Shah is the founder of Next Health, the world’s first and largest Health Optimization and Longevity clinic. A board-certified surgeon and Longevity Medicine specialist, Dr. Shah has performed over 20,000 surgical procedures. He earned his medical degree at 21, trained at the Mayo Clinic, and holds alumni status at Harvard Business School and Singularity University. Dr. Shah has authored a book, published papers, patented medical devices, and given over 100 speeches on longevity and health. Find more at https://next-health.com and follow him at https://x.com/darshanshahMD 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 • CAPSADYN - Get pain relief with the power of capsaicin from chili peppers – without the burning! Capsadyn's proprietary formulation for joint & muscle pain contains no NSAIDs, opioids, anesthetics, or steroids. Try it for 15% off at https://drdrew.com/capsadyn • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • TRU NIAGEN - For almost a decade, Dr. Drew has been taking a healthy-aging supplement called Tru Niagen, which uses a patented form of Nicotinamide Riboside to boost NAD levels. Use code DREW for 20% off at https://drdrew.com/truniagen • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

very excited today to welcome jonathan turley to the program his new book is the indispensable right the free speech in the age of rage we got a lot to talk about there he of course is a law professor at george washington university the shapiro chair for public interest law since 1998 many high profile cases the ex follow would be jonathan j-o-n-a-T-H-A-N, Turley, T-U-R-L-E-Y. Also, his blog, Raise Ipsa Loquitur, is at JonathanTurley.org. We'll be chatting with him in just a moment. After we finish that conversation, we're going to welcome Dr. Darshan Shah, the founder of NextHealth, the world's first and largest health optimization and longevity clinic.

Susan and I had a nicotinamide riboside infusion there last week, and we'll talk about that. He was a surgeon, but then got discouraged by what he was seeing and went into functional medicine. Follow him at DarshanShahMD. Be back with Jonathan Turley right after this. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction,

fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for... Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals.

Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot-the-counter medication i'll introduce you to that provides great relief using the power of check it out chili peppers capsidin is made with a proprietary formula that contains no non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents

no opioids no anesthetic or steroid, nothing, no chance for addiction, no side effects, no chance it's going to interact with other medication you might be taking. Capsodin contains capsaicin, which is the substance in chili peppers that burns your tongue. That gives you that burny feeling. And of course, I've recommended capsaicin creams to patients over the years, but other capsaicin creams burn your skin.

That's what makes Capsodent so unique. In clinical trials, Capsodent has actually been demonstrated not to burn. I've been using Capsodent to relieve my pain in my hands and my wrist from carpal tunnel syndrome and arthritis. The results have been amazing. I use it every day during my show, and I highly recommend it. Get the pain relief you need from various sources, even back aches, sprains, bruises even. Order now at capsidin.com slash drew to get a 15% discount plus free shipping.

That is C-A-P-S-A-D-Y-N capsidin.com slash D-R-E-W. Again, after you finish the conversation with Jonathan Turley, it will be Dr. Darshan Shah, next-health.com. Also next underscore health on X. And he, of course, as I said, is Darshan Shah, M-D-A-R-S-H-A-N-S-H-A-H-M-D.

Oh, she's- I'm rubbing capsidin on my carpal tunnel and my knee today. Right now. Susan is a huge advocate for capsidin. I found it. I had to look around the house and I was missing it.

So thank you for that. I'll let you know how it goes. Thank you for that. So Jonathan Turley really needs no introduction, but I will do so. Nevertheless, you can follow him, as I said, jonathanturleyorg, RIS Ipsa Locator. The facts speak for themselves is his blog.

X is Jonathan Turley. The book is The Indispensable Right. Rather than me just holding it up, let's see if Caleb has a full screen here. There it is. It is a encyclopedic examination through the prism of our current moment. Mr. Turley is a law professor. Professor Turley is a law professor at George Washington University.

Shapiro Chair for Public Interest Law since 1998. He has testified before Congress over 100 times. Just many, many, I mean, his pedigree is, I don't know where to stop because it goes on. I think most people know him. Please welcome Jonathan Turley. Thank you so much for having me. That was a wonderful introduction. I feel like we should stop here. Well, I know. I understand what that feels like. There's nowhere to go but down sometimes after an intro. But, and I was, I am almost compulsively prone to calling you Professor Turley because I'm not sure

if this still goes on in the East, but I was educated in the East and you called your professors, Professor. Is that still going on where you're teaching? It is still going on. That's the handle that people use.

Good. All right, good. So I will, they'll make me feel very connected to my roots to do so. So I will do so. So, Professor, The Indispensable Right, Free Speech in an Age of Rage. I want to start with that because that's what I want people to read. I've got a lot else to talk about, but I want to read a little something here and I want you to sort of take off from this. Rage captures a crisis of faith within a system. It signals a fundamental break in not only the status quo, but also conventional discourse. I thought that was a rather powerful statement.

Rage is something that I'm actually producing television around. It has become so commonplace. Everyone sees it every time you go on social media. It is simply ubiquitous, but I had not thought of it through the prism of the breakdown of discourse and through the contribution of what's happening with free speech. So please have at it. Well, you know, the book is subtitled Free Speech in an Age of Rage because it's not our first. You know, we have gone through these periods. And one of the purposes of this book was to try to figure out what we mean by free speech, why we're still struggling with how to protect it. And it looks at the personalities and the periods that helped define free speech for this country.

And this country was born in rage. Many of our struggles deal with what I call rage rhetoric. That rage rhetoric occurs during these times when people are most afraid or most angry. And what often happens is that rage rhetoric can turn into state rage of crackdowns on free speech. And we've seen that over and over again. You know, this book is an unvarnished history of free speech in the United States. And we're not always quite as good as our advertising. You know, we have often cracked down on socialists, communists, feminists, unionists, anarchists.

We've cracked down on people we disagree with. But the strange thing about rage is that people don't like to admit one aspect of it, that they like it. It's addictive. It's even contagious. People like rage because it allows them to do things they wouldn't normally do. And that can make it dangerous, but it also is a manifestation of something deeper, of people who are disconnected, disenfranchised from our society. And too often, we seek to silence those voices, and it does become state rage. Yes, state rage is an interesting aspect of this to me. So let's dial it back. Whenever I begin talking about free speech in this country, I find myself going back

to Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America, where he pointed out that we have one of the most prescribed protections in the law for free speech, but his observation was, in reality, we had very poor ability to actually realize that because of what he called the effect of the public square, that people would shame, condemn, cancel now people who were far outlying in terms of their opinions. Did you explore that? And did you go all the way back to those areas? I know you went into the Alien Sentence Sedition Act, which I guess is before that even,

but did you mention Mr. de Tocqueville? I do. I talk about those views and also the views of framers. I actually go back all the way to ancient Greece and when we first started to see the protection of free speech and what it meant. And the reason that early period of the republic is so important is that I think that we had a moment of clarity at that moment. Viewed free speech as a human right, a natural right, a right that humans have because they are human, not because the government consents or grants it to you. The government was supposed to protect it because it was yours all along. within a few years. And federal courts regressed to the Blackstonian or British view that free speech is protected because it's good for democracy. And it most certainly is good for

democracy. But it's much more than that. And what the book looks at is why we're hardwired for free speech. It's to the point that even parts of the brain shrink when you don't use free speech. It's actually, there's a physiological reaction to being denied this fundamental human impulse to project part of ourselves into the world around us. It's so interesting to me. Now, you've mentioned the European and the blackstone version of this now the european union has once again become threat to us and our free speech i i was having enough of a time dealing with what was uncovered in terms of what our own government was doing during covid or continues to do with social media collusion and certainly the twitter files to me were a massive

shock but now we have the eu going after x as well what how do we protect ourselves from this well of course as you're referring to what the eu just announced that before uh the trump interview that they were quote monitoring musk and they could seek sanctions against him for that interview. And the DSA is actually discussed in the second half of this book when I look at the anti-free speech movement. It is in the United Kingdom, Germany, France. They have been criminalizing free speech and it becomes insatiable as you criminalize more and more speech. What's interesting about these censorship systems is that they've never worked, Not once in history, not once has a censorship system actually killed a single idea. What it does do is it kills free speech. In Germany, which has one of the longest standing censorship programs, a rather robust one, there was a recent poll that said that 17% of Germans felt comfortable giving their views in public, only 17%. Now, it hasn't made any difference to the neo-Nazi movement.

That's flourishing, right? They're hitting record numbers. So the people they're trying to silence are doing just fine. But what they're doing is killing or silencing the speech of the very people you want to speak. And so part of what this book looks at is this strange tendency we have, instead of answering people, to try to silence them. And James Madison talked about that. He had a wonderful publication where he was talking about sedition prosecutions. And he said it was the monster that lived within us,

that lived within a system. And that monster has reappeared throughout our history. When we've been very afraid or we're very angry, it's appearing now. And it's a weird thing about free speech. It's one of those things that people love to admire at a distance. They never view themselves as censors. They look back at the McCarthy period, and now the left is the primary source of a lot of the censorship. And these people look back at the McCarthy period when members of the left, socialists, communists, artists, were arrested,

blacklisted, and they're horrified. How could we have allowed that to happen? And yet when you ask about censorship systems today, they look at you blankly that, well, we're facing something we've never faced before, which is not true. These are the same voices. They're using the same language. At the beginning of our republic, people trying to engage in censorship talked about fake news and their version of disinformation. It's the same voices, but you never appreciate that in the moment. Who are those voices? Is there something that we can sort of look at to kind of understand who those voices are?

I bring up all the time, I interviewed the Matthias Desmet, who was a psychologist, came up with the mass formation theory. He was studying totalitarianism and then the COVID hit and he was sort of primed to really look at what was going on.

And his position was that about 20% of the people are essentially massively persuadable. Like they're immediately on board and they become sort of evangelical in their enthusiasm for these things. And it seems to me that those are the people that can do really serious harm. Is that who we're talking about? Unfortunately, it's more than that now. One of the things I say in the book when I get to the modern period is that this is arguably the most dangerous anti-free speech period of our history. Just because we made it through those earlier periods doesn't mean that we will do it again. And what makes it dangerous

is that we've never seen an alliance like the one today, where you have the government, corporations, academia, the media, all lined up against free speech. You know, you have the New York Times just recently publishing a column that the First Amendment is out of control. You have books out there calling the First Amendment our Achilles heel. Another law professor, a colleague of mine, is leading a movement to amend the First Amendment because it is, quote, aggressively individualistic. Those are not outlying voices. If anything, they represent the current popular view in academia. I'm a bit of a dinosaur in academia now. I never thought I would be. But now students are taught that free speech is harmful. It's a threat, that they shouldn't have to listen to opposing views, that they can be

triggered. And that's why we saw recently at Stanford, a federal judge shouted down because he wanted to talk about issues from his perspective. We were creating a generation of speech phobics. And we don't know where this is going to come out. That's why this book took me so long, but it's also why I wanted to get this out now. This sounds so terribly frightening to me. The only thing I've been clear about politically is that we have to defend free speech. That's the only political impulse I have that is absolutely crystal clear. And I believe we all need to, and I have sort of made it my business to stand up and let people talk and talk myself. And especially if I have a, I disagree with their sort of extreme view of some type.

What else can we do? And what is your sort of, if you have any, not just prescriptions, but if you have any insight to what's coming? Well, at the end of the book, I do make certain proposals of how we can regain some of the ground. You only have to look to Europe to see where we're heading. Many of the people in the anti-free speech movement in the United States have allied themselves with the European movement. And we can take steps, including legislation I've suggested that will get the United States out of the censorship business to bar any federal funds to any site, grant, project, program that censors, targets, blacklists people because of their views.

The government can always speak in its own voice. You know, Mayorkas could go on his website and say what you said is untrue. He just can't create the disinformation governance board to try to target citizens. But, you know, Dr. Drew, one of the things that I was sometimes asked, I just gave a speech a few days ago, and someone came up before and said, could you possibly, I read your book, could you really just say something positive of where we can head? And I sort of felt like Woody Allen when he said, I wish I could leave you with a positive point. Would you take two negative points instead? And there is the possibility that two negatives will make a positive.

The first one is that the American people have stopped every one of the periods I talk about in the book, not Congress, not the courts. It's the American people that have said no. They saw McCarthy on television and said no. In 1800, John Adams was defeated by Thomas Jefferson in the only election where free speech was one of the main issues. The second thing is perhaps the most important. That is, the nice thing about believing that free speech is a human right is that you believe it's in our DNA, as I do. You know, the government can do a lot to reduce our appetite for free speech, you know, through censorship and

throttling and targeting. But it can never truly kill our taste for it. That free speech, like many rights, like water, it tends to find its way out. But if I'm right, if many of us are right, if you're right, that free speech belongs to us as human beings, you really can't kill it. It's always there. And even though we have to slay that monster of James Madison, they can never really slay the need, the right, the impulse to free speech because that's just being human. It feels like we're saying that being human is also the impulse to freedom per se. And I do believe that that is true. And yet many people have lived under oppressive circumstances for very long periods of time. And I worry that we're heading towards some dark era. And I don't understand what's motivating it. I just don't get it.

It almost feels like it's, I mean, when people talk about an enemy from without infecting us, that certainly is an appealing and easy explanation. But I'm worried that it's much more complicated. And I'm shocked. Go ahead. No, I think it is the fact is i don't want to gild this lily i mean the fact is those periods of crackdowns throughout our history were popular until they weren't until the public regretted it but you know george b, George Bernard Shaw once said that unreasonable people are those who expect the world to conform to them. And he said, that's why history is always made by unreasonable people.

And this is a book that details the lives of wonderfully unreasonable people, people who just wouldn't shut up, people who believed that they had a right, even if no one agreed with them, to speak their minds. People like Charlotte Anita Whitney, where I got the title of this book. It was in her case that Louis Brandeis said, this is an indispensable right. But the reason I use it is because he said that in an opinion where he upheld her conviction. So she was a communist in California who was convicted for speaking against lynchings. And Louis Brandeis, one of the greatest civil libertarians in our history, signed off on her going to prison.

So did Oliver Wendell Holmes. And it raises the point of the book. Everyone says this is an indispensable right, but not why and why and how we should protect it. That's the American struggle with this right. And do you answer that? I have to admit, I'm only about a third of the way through the book. Do you answer it in the book? I hope I do.

The answer is that it's a natural right. It's a right that comes not from the government, but from being human. And that what that means is that there is less room for trade-offs, that you have to tolerate free speech, even when it's obnoxious, even when it's triggering. You have to accept that free speech is a basic human right that people project themselves in society. Sometimes those projections are ugly, hateful, but you can respond with your own speech as opposed to trying to stop those you disagree with from speaking. Is there a role of the mob and i'm interested in two things how these things evolve and how they evolve how they get better um are there is i'm wondering when i think about

the mob i think about the opportunity for the mob to act out through social media it's a brand new public square that is incredibly prone towards mob behavior, it seems to me. Is the mob often the perpetrator of the rage in the government? Or is it a feature? Does it alert the government to that rage? Or does the mob act out the government's rage? The government usually cracks down on free speech when it's popular to do so. They will demonize others.

They'll say that they represent an existential threat. That's how we arrested thousands of anarchists and communists and artists. They convinced the public that democracy itself would not survive if free speech were allowed to be used by these individuals. And so, it's not like this is an evil government. It is an evil that rests within each of us. It comes out at points of weakness. It's also important to remember censorship is a form of group think. That is, while we often think of the government censoring, it's more often that the government works with private entities as they do today. But it's a sense of group think. It is saying that there are certain views that are simply wrong or disinformation or misinformation or malinformation. And that has to be removed to protect others. And keep in mind, the Biden administration lists malinformation as one of the categories that needs

to be removed. The definition that the Biden administration has given for malinformation are true facts that are being used in a misleading way. So one of the three grounds used for censorship by the U.S. government is when people actually state things that are true, but they believe that truth is being used in a misleading way. And you said fear and anger is when this tends to emerge. Is it usually both or is one more powerful than the other? It usually is both. You know, things like the crackdown on anarchists is a good example. There were violent anarchists and bomb makers, but the government really worked the country into a frenzy where people believed that anarchists were going to blow up their street,

their home, their car, their train. And it allowed them to arrest thousands in these raids. The government really looks or operates like a gas. If you expand the room, the gas will fill it. And so what the government does is it expands the room by fueling our fears, our rage. You see that today when President Biden told social media companies, you're killing people if you don't censor them, if you don't censor citizens. He knew he was playing to that weakness. But the fact is the COVID crisis shows why free speech is so important. I spoke recently at the University of Chicago, and in the front row were some of the scientists that signed the Barrington Declaration.

Many of those scientists were vindicated in their views that we didn't have to shut down society, that they had questions about the origins. And I asked them after the speech, have any of you been given your jobs back, your associational positions, your publication opportunities? And they all said no. So even after the U.S. government has adopted some of their views, they're still persona non grata because they stepped out alive. Yeah, not only that, I talk to a lot of these folks regularly. And the thing I'm always surprised by that they tell me is not only, I get the big institutions. I mean, where is that motivation going to come from to give them their jobs back? But they don't even have, none of them have heard a single apology from anyone, including their peers who were completely out of line and completely disgusting in their behavior.

And none of them have come back around. Some of them were their friends and said, you know, I have to look at my behavior. I was upset. Things were tough. I didn't understand what was going on. I wish I'd been a little something, some sort of acknowledgement of the excesses of those moments. But not one of these people tells me they've had anything like that, which that is shocking, disgusting. I don't know what to do with that.

It is shocking. And I have a long chapter on higher education. And I must tell you, I've been teaching for three decades. I never thought I would see what I see today in academia. I never thought that it would be this intolerant. I never thought that colleagues could be fired, disciplined, investigated without their other colleagues supporting them. There is this chilling silence that exists in higher education. And the real losers are students. You know, when I went to University of Chicago, I loved it. You know, I'd never spoken to a

Republican. I came from the north side of Chicago. I mean, my dad had a Republican friend that we sort of pointed at. But I remember, you know, talking to my first Republican at University of Chicago. I lived in a vegetarian cooperative. In the basement, we had Trotskyites who would meet. Next door, we had militant vegans. Upstairs, we had libertarians. I loved every minute of it. It was like walking into the Star Wars bar scene. Everyone was looking at the same thing. I wasn't having these bizarre takes, and I couldn't get enough of it. I disagreed with them. You don't have that range anymore. It generally runs from the left to the far left. There are very few, you know, self-surveys of faculties show that a huge percentage don't have a single Republican or conservative or libertarian anymore. Those are just not voices that are heard.

Yeah, I had the exact same feeling about my profession. I mean, some of the behavior of physicians just were, again, shocking to me. So, I mean, but I'm struggling with it to this day. I have to take a break. When we come back, I want to go back out to the EU and Britain and what they're sort of talking about doing to Elon Musk. As you said, they were monitoring Elon, but I feel like there's more trouble ahead. And I also wonder if there are any allies for free speech. There must be over there. I guess Christine Anderson and people like that. But we can talk about that. Again, the book is The Indispensable Right, Free Speech in an Age of Rage.

I think I said the age of rage. An age of rage because there have been many. Race Ipsa Loquitur is Jonathan's blog. It, I believe, is at JonathanTurley.org. Is that correct? That's correct. Excellent. And we'll be right back with a little more Jonathan Coturley right after this.

Of course, I'm a fan of the healthy aging supplement, True Niagen. I've been taking it almost for a decade myself. This supplement boosts NAD, which your cells need to survive properly metabolically, and it goes down as we age. It does so with a nutrient called nicotinamide riboside or NR, specifically patented form of NR called Niagen. It's the most efficient and trusted NAD booster. NAD can also play a role in reproductive health. Boosting NAD is recommended with prenatal vitamins for women over 30 looking to start a family. Here's Dr. Amy, also known as the egg whisperer,

a highly influential specialist in this area. That was when I said, this is amazing. I need every single person going through fertility to take it. I not only take it myself, my patients have shared stories. They took it and then they got pregnant naturally. And that's really my goal is I want people to empower themselves with the tools so that they can get pregnant without my help. TruNiagen is an amazing NAD booster. You're going to want to add it to your reproductive health arsenal. And of course, it's in our family of Dr. Drew sponsors. Go to drdrew.com slash TruNiagen for 20% off your order. That is drdrew.com slash truniagen.

Enter Dr. Drew at checkout for 20% off. I'm excited to bring you a new product, a new supplement, Fatty. I take it. I make Susan take it. My whole family takes it. This comes out of, believe it or not, dolphin research.

The Navy maintains a fleet of dolphins, and a brilliant veterinarian recognized that these dolphins sometimes developed a syndrome identical to our Alzheimer's disease. Those dolphins were deficient in a particular fatty acid. She replaced the fatty acid and they didn't get the Alzheimer's.

Humans have the same issue. And we are more deficient in this particular fatty acid than ever before. And a simple replacement of this fatty acid called C15 will help us prevent these syndromes. It's published in a recent journal called Metabolites.

It's a new nutritional C15, pentadecanoic acid it's called. The deficiency that we are developing for C15 creates something called the cellular fragility syndrome. This is the first nutritional deficiency syndrome to be discovered in 75 years and may be affecting us in many ways and as many as one in three of us. This is an important breakthrough. Take advantage of it. dot com slash dr drew to receive 15 off a 90-day starter kit subscription or use code dr drew at checkout for that 15 off or just go to our website dr drew.com slash fatty 15 many of us have not gotten over covet i'm not talking about the virus itself but the response we were flabbergasted by

what the government could do to us there is no telling what they might pull next time and it's looking more like there will be a next time so we all have to be what I call rationally ready. That's where the wellness company comes in. TWC is about access. Access to physicians via telehealth. Access to potentially life-saving medication. Years ago, having access to medication and telehealth might have seemed crazy, but now it seems crazy not to.

Now, with claims that gain-of-function research have been done in the bird flu, I urge everyone to take control of their healthcare with the help of the wellness company. Go to drdrew.com slash TWC for 10% off all their products, including the four medical kits, each of which has a different purpose.

And we've added Tamiflu to one of them in case the bird flu does become a problem for humans. Be rationally ready. drdrew.com slash GWC for 10% off. And that's just trouble in a relationship. Sean, who are you? Like Dr. Drew all of a sudden? And not only have we added Tamiflu, but the emergency kit, the first aid kit has got the, I believe it's the first aid kit, and I should check before I open my big mouth, has the epinephrine, the EpiPens, and we've got great rates on those. I mean, it's one of the best.

We're trying to keep the cost down on all this stuff, but the EpiPens, we really nailed it. So if you're somebody that needs to keep that kind of thing around, that emergency first aid kit is a great way to go after that. And then also our friends at Paleo Valley, of course, well, here's a short list of the things I love about these guys. Everything they produce is impeccably sourced.

These meat sticks, the protein sticks, wide variety of meats and flavors, the beef sticks, bone broth made from grass-fed and finished beef. And the last part is what distinguishes it from what called other so-called organic meat. They're high in protein, low in calories. So the chicken one, this one right here is like 50 calories and it's very satisfying. Bone broth comes in plain chocolate and vanilla made from actual bones, not hides. And again, it's the same finished beef.

We put chocolate in ours every day. Paleo Valley makes Susan happy, and we love seeing Susan happy. Get yours today at drdrew.com slash paleovalley for 15% off your first order. Or subscribe to save 20% so you do not run out. That is at drdrew.com slash paleovalley. We love those guys. I had my chocolate bone broth. I like to put a little bit of whipping cream in there,

and it's just so tasty. Interesting. I tasted it too. I must say, I have to confess. We've had so many people who have bought this product, and we thank all of you. Yes. It's good stuff.

I mean, it just is. It's interesting. It's rare that a product like that becomes such a part of your life, but it is really a part of what we do every day. Okay, Jonathan Turley, as I said, is with us. Dr. Darshan Shah coming in a little while. Professor Turley is at George Washington University,

Shapiro Chair for Public Interest Law since 1998. We've been talking about, amongst other things, how shocked we are at our various professions and academia. And Caleb, you put something up. I didn't have a chance to watch the thread on the Rumble Rants about Elon Musk saying something about the FDA or on the Elon Musk interview, Trump saying about something about the FDA. What was that?

So it's not quite relevant to what we're talking about today, but there was a quote that Trump had made in the space with Elon Musk yesterday speaking about how we need to speed up the FDA's approval process, which conflicts a lot with what his base is looking for. I don't know how to take that. That's why I mentioned it to you. Yeah, it seems like a lot of his base wants all of this to be slowed down. They kind of blame a lot of the mRNA issues

on them pushing things through too quickly. So it was in conflict with that. But I want you to listen to it before you comment on it. So we'll hold that for next time. All right. Maybe Dr. Shaw and I will talk about it in a little while. But what I wanted to talk about was what's coming down the road from the EU and Britain and what they're doing to Elon Musk and who our allies are over there. I'll let you talk about it. Well, Elon Musk is the ally that you want. I talk about him in the book because there is no modern figure that has done more to protect free speech than Elon Musk in buying Twitter and releasing the Twitter files. Because I testified repeatedly about the censorship program

and many members, largely Democratic members, denied that there was a censorship program. They said, where's your evidence? We did have evidence. But when Musk bought Twitter and released those files, there was no denying that this was one of the largest censorship systems in history, a system that a federal court later said was Orwellian. overstay. But it also explains why he's being attacked in this unrelenting fashion in the media. And that occurred right after he announced that he would take down much of that censorship apparatus at Twitter. And it was very telling that not only did the media then just flip on him and try to get advertisers successfully not to support Twitter. But Hillary Clinton called to Europe for the European censors to censor American citizens. She said he's threatening to take apart the censorship system. And she said, you need to use the Digital Services Act and your laws to force him to

censor American citizens. And they've done that. These are people who have left free speech in a free fall in Europe. And the EU has been all over Musk. And that's what happened the last couple of days when he had the audacity to interview one of the two leading candidates for the presidency. And the EU said, we have the ability to sanction you. And they do. The DSA is a draconian law that allows them to impose crippling fees, sanctions, and penalties on companies and

individuals. And that's what they're threatening. And so consider that for a second, that the head of this EU office is saying that speech in the United States on a presidential campaign has to satisfy his standard. So it's going to be the lowest common denominator of speech that he sets. And if you don't do that, he's threatening to pull you into the eu and ruin your company have you talked to elon musk and let me sort of put a code on that and say i always wonder if he started his quest uh at x twitter to protect free speech or is that just what he found there and realized oh this is important? And much like myself, I didn't expect to go here, and now here I am. You sort of evolve as you keep running into more and more censorship. Well, you know, I say in the book that he's a curious figure because he may be the only person alive that could stand up to the anti-free speech movement. I mean, this was really the irresistible force meeting the immovable object. And he was that

object. He was the richest man in the world. And they did what they did with everyone else. They threatened him through every platform they could find. But this is not someone who is easily threatened. He is indeed what George Bernard Shaw described as unreasonable people who make history. He refused to yield. And virtually everyone before her before him has yielded. I mean, the anti-free speech movement is doing very, very well until they met up with Elon Musk. And it has been a colossal battle, but he doesn't seem to be blinking. And we will see what happens. The call by Hillary Clinton for Europe to force him to censor is a very serious threat to the company. But his response to the EU two days ago was very short, very profane, and very clear that he was not going to yield.

I didn't see it, but I'm imagining it was the same as what he said to the advertisers who tried to manipulate him, which I loved and it was inspiring, which was go F yourself. Am I clear? It is. He was suggesting a physical feat that would not be possible. Oh, good. Yeah. It's a very academic way of putting it.

With their heads? I'm guessing with their heads. Yes. Putting their heads somewhere. That's good. They should go there too. Oh my God, that's so amazing to me. Did you read his biography? I read parts of it and I find him endlessly fascinating. Look, I've disagreed with some things he's done, including a few things, some things on free speech, but those pale in comparison to what he has contributed to free speech. But those pale in comparison to what he has contributed to free speech. When he dismantled that censorship system at Twitter, it was a historic moment. And you can

tell that by the reaction of the anti-free speech movement. He became public enemy number one. And if you just put in his name, you'll see how major media outlets have not stopped since that moment to try to destroy the guy. And you mentioned at University of Chicago, the silenced FLCC guys and stuff. when like early in the dismantling of the censorship system, Elon Musk invited him into his office to show him what the government was saying about him. It's just an epidemiologist, a decorated professor at Stanford Medical School. To this day, you'll talk about that endlessly, that experience of going over there in the middle of the night, Elon Musk is still there and he's pointing at the computer going,

look what they're saying about you. Look what they did. This is unbelievable. And he was always very grateful for that. No, it's amazing because what I really think it shows is that these people were not only vindicated ultimately, but even if you don't agree with what they said, we missed that debate. So in Europe, they didn't close down the schools. They didn't

suffer the costs that we suffer to our children, to their education. And one of the reasons is that we weren't allowed to have that debate, that people like these scientists and professors were literally stripped of public forums. Now, could they continue to speak on the subway or in small circles? Of course they can. But it was really frustrating recently when Jon Stewart on his show said, it doesn't seem like people are being stopped from speaking. I hear them speaking all the time. And I'm doing fine. I don't think my free speech is being abridged.

Well, of course it's not. Any more than most academics are being abridged because they're that's the speech that is favored right yeah it is uh again uncanny but a lot of the thought bubbles over my head sort of can be summarized as why so so what is hillary thinking when she hillary clinton when she calls contacts the EU and urges them to come after an American citizen what is she losing power and authority here and using them as a as a cudgel or what what I mean you know it's funny just strictly no but these are people who are relativists they're relativists in the law and they're relativists when it comes to basic rights. They view the law as a means to achieve their ends. They don't recognize free speech as this indispensable right, this human

right. And in the book I talk about, strangely enough, I turn to the art world And I talk about Rockwell, who painted the four freedoms before World War II. And one of his paintings on free speech became the poster for war bonds. And it showed his neighbor who stood up in a Vermont meeting to oppose the building of a new school, a very unpopular thing. But Rockwell was so struck by this one man standing up against all of his neighbors, he made him the image of what we were fighting for. And I talk about how the fact that Rockwell himself was attacked by art connoisseurs, including one who discovered Jackson Pollock, who said he no longer wants to be taken seriously. We have the same type of legal connoisseurs that say that, oh, the First Amendment can't mean what it says, that you have to listen

to us to interpret it, and it's much more limited and nuanced. And the fact is that most of us, including me, are really unapologetically Rockwellian when it comes to the First Amendment. We think it does mean what it says, what it looks like. And there's a profound aspect of Rockwell's paintings. They're not simplistic, but they are accessible and they're honest. And what we have is a generation of legal connoisseurs who are saying, well, you're choosing not to be taken seriously. The First Amendment requires tradeoffs, and it requires us to interpret it for you.

Wow. I mean, it could not be more clear. I mean, they put it right there at the beginning of the Bill of Rights with, you know, with not much qualifiers. But to be fair, I mean, you know, as I understand, and Caleb, if you could find those pictures from those Rockwell pictures, I would be greatly appreciative if we're allowed to throw them up. But it really was after the First World War, wasn't it, that the protection of the First Amendment started really becoming an issue and people were, as I understand, I think they were railing against the draft or something. And before that, that was considered sedition. And all of a sudden, they had the right to say what they wanted to say.

Well, yeah, we've gone through this pendulum swing. Of course, John Adams was perhaps the most anti-free speech president in history. He tried to arrest his opponents. He did arrest them and tried many of them. Jefferson pardoned all those people, though Jefferson also had some sedition trials. And then you're absolutely right. We saw a lot of the attacks on free speech after World War I with anarchists, those opposing the draft. And, you know, for example, where Holmes talks about crying fire in a crowded theater comes from a case involving a socialist who is merely passing around a pamphlet that talked about the U.S. Constitution and the right to oppose the draft.

And it's funny because I was testifying in Congress and Congressman Dan Goldman from New York said, Professor, we have a right to do this, you know, that censorship sometimes is basically needed, was the rest of his argument, because this is a lot like crying fire in a crowded theater. And now everything is a crowded theater. And now everything is a crowded theater on the internet, essentially. And I told him, I said, Congressman, you do realize where that line comes from, right? That line was used to incarcerate a socialist who was opposing a war by telling people about the Constitution. That's the line you're quoting. And by the way, Oliver Wendell Holmes walked away from that very significantly. But is that really the line you're quoting. And by the way, Oliver Wendell Holmes walked away from that very significantly.

But is that really the line you want to use to censor fellow citizens? And he cut me off and said, we don't need a law lecture. And I said, I think you do. See, I think that the fact that we use this mantra from Holmes, shows how every generation has to learn anew what free speech is and what it means when we lose it. I'm tempted to stop right there because that's such a profound button on this, but I'm going to ask one last question.

Do we have any allies over in the European continent? Do you know of anybody offhand that we could watch, appeal to, anything of that sort? We have a diminishing few. In the UK, I talk to free speech advocates all the time in London and other cities. They're up against it. Germany, France, Canada, same thing. We have lost a generation and it's going to require a great effort. And it's got to start here in the United States. We remain the bastion of free speech, but this tide has reached our shore. So this fight is now here. It's ours. And what's being fought over is the very thing that defines us as Americans. It is indispensable. And so it's essential for us to understand why. And if we can win this fight, we may be able to reverse this tide. Well, I thank you for the book. I thank you for your clarity of thought. I appreciate you spending

some time here with us. I hope that this, you know, other people, we mostly are singing to the choir, I think in this audience, but you might want to, those of you who do agree with Professor Turley, share pieces of this with your friends, get the book, The Indispensable Right. You will be well-armed with exactly the material

that Professor Turley has been going over here. And I think it is almost an obligation right now. And we really have to really know what we're talking about. And the fact that you do know it so well that you could withstand the scrutiny in Congress, I appreciate you going through that. I'm sure it's not a good time. But man, I just live in a constant state of disbelief and shock.

And so here we are again. Any place other than your website you'd like us to send people? So it's JonathanTurley.org? Well, you can get the book on Amazon. It's currently fourth on Amazon's best sellers. I'm very proud of that. Right. Good news.

Yeah, but I must tell you, the most reassuring thing is to have allies like you, Dr. Drew, and others who are really the stronger voices here that are being heard to say, let's wait, let's see what's going on, and let's ask ourselves what the costs are. Well, it's funny. Those were my words back in the darker days of the pandemic. Let's ask ourselves what the costs are. Well, it's funny.

Those were my words back in the darker days of the pandemic. Right. I guess that's what educated me. You mentioned how we didn't have debate. Just a quick story. I was on, I had a local news broadcast during COVID that they let me come on every night and try to make sense of things for people. And we had somebody from the LA school board here on our show that night. And he announced that he was going to close the schools. And I kept saying,

why? Why are you doing this? What consultant told you this was a good idea? No one. We just think it's the right thing to do. And I thought, wow, we are in big trouble. When is it the right thing to do to bring the kids back, Mr. No-It-All, who has no sense of any consequence for what they're doing, no risk-reward analysis, just beyond. I feel like this fight is the remnant of all that. It's what informs us. Well, listen, I appreciate it very much.

Race Ipso Loquitur is the blog and the facts do speak for themselves. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you, Dr. Drew. Much appreciated. Appreciate it. So that was interesting. Probably bought stock in white wine

because all the moms ran to the liquor store screaming. That's funny. That's hysterical. Now we are going to switch gears. We're going to talk a little bit about functional health and we're going to talk about nicotinamide riboside. The founder of Next Health is Dr. Darshan Shah. You can follow him on Twitter, DarshanShahMD on X and also next underscore health, as well as next dash health.com. Dr. Shaw has a really interesting history. He was a very active cancer surgeon. He told me that he spent the first 10 years of his career convincing young people that medicine is the greatest career. They should jump into it. And the next 10 years telling everybody how miserably it makes you, please stay away.

And I resonate with that story. That's why I remembered it. He was trained at Mayo Clinic, holds alumni status at Harvard Business School and also Singularity University, books and papers and over 100 speeches on longevity and health. Please welcome Dr. Darshan Shah. Dr. Drew, so good to see you again. Welcome to us. Thanks.

You as well. So where should we start this conversation? There's a lot to talk about. Tell them your journey. I thought that stayed with me vividly, you know, how a very successful cancer, you know, top of your game cancer surgeon, which is, again, these are, this is rarefied air to achieve that. And then, oh, I need to change course. Yeah. You know, like, I think what, what I went through was what a lot of people go through

when they first start their career, you work all the time. And not only was I a cancer surgeon, but I was also working in the emergency room. I was building a business as well around my practice. And what ended up happening was I worked 12 to 14 hours a day in the operating room and then another 12 to 14 hour days on the business. And I ended up not taking good care of myself. You know, what happens to all of us, we make ourselves the last priority, right? And so I got sick myself. I got an autoimmune disease. I was 50 pounds overweight, metabolic syndrome, high blood pressure, uncontrolled, eight different

medications. And I just thought to myself that this has to change. And you and I talked about this, Dr. Drew, we don't get the tools in medical school on how to be healthy all the tools are around diagnosing disease how to treat the disease with a pill or with surgery and i had to go back to school basically and relearn the tools the tools of health oh yeah and and i've always said i don't i don't uh have any condemnation for our our profession we're it's busy it's as you look how busy as you were that was fighting disease of people that had cancer got into these situation, but,

and it's, it is a full-time preoccupation. You cannot worry about health when you're fighting disease, but we should also have the option of trying to pay attention to health. So we don't have such so much disease all around. And God knows in this day of, of an adulterated food system, all this stuff is more common than ever. Absolutely. I mean, look, there needs to be

a little bit of perspective change combined with just a directionality change in how we live our lives. I think if we start looking at Western medicine as there to take care of us when we are really sick we get diagnosed with cancer hit by a bus something really bad is happening that's what the western medical system is there for it is basically not great for the 30 years before that right before you know it's not it not at all it's we're really great at what we do, but we don't pay, really there's no attention paid to what comes before that really. Before we launch further into functional medicine,

I want to bring up a topic that I was talking to Jonathan Turley about. Apparently, former President Trump brought up on his thread, on his interview with Elon Musk last night, that the FDA should actually speed up all of their approval processes. He said, we got therapeutics approved in the FDA

that people can't even believe the speed. It went faster, faster, faster. And I remember talking to the head of the HHS about this at one point, because I really, it seemed like a lot of things were getting bogged down. This is now about six to seven years ago I talked to him. It was, I'm blanking on his name.

He was the head of Eli Lilly at one point. And he was the head of HHS under Trump. And he said, he goes, it's all the randomized clinical trials. To get them properly powered is so expensive. We just can't do it. We can't move it through the way we need to. And that, of course, is still the same. And if we start speeding up the FDA approval process, which on one hand, look, I'm all for when it comes to desperate situations and there are no alternatives.

But we're going to end up, like, I know what you're seeing, but I'm seeing a lot of ozemic disasters right now. And we're going to see those kinds of things when things aren't properly powered in their studies. What do you say? I'm in agreement in big picture. I think if you speed up the process, we're going to see a lot more complications, things we just don't know about. Because instead of experimenting in a control setting, we're launching massive human experiments into the population by just getting drugs out there, right? And so you're gonna see a lot more.

And by the way, we've gone over this many, many times on this program, how the observational studies, the mRNA vaccines are a perfect example of this, that because they didn't do exactly the right trouble-blind placebo-controlled trials with the proper endpoint on the mRNA vaccines, now we have all these observational studies that look like something, but we can't say anything, really. It's just the null hypothesis is non-informative in this situation. And it's like we are guessing, you know, it's a little better than

guessing, I suppose, but we're still guessing. We're guessing. And also, you know, there's going to be a massive political shift here in what's happening in medicine. With the Chevron law, just the Supreme Court making a ruling where the three-letter agencies, maybe their rules and regulations don't hold weight without congressional approval. There's going to be a lot of cases coming up in the Supreme Court, specifically brought by drug companies that are saying, hey, why do we even have to go by what you're saying? We can just launch these things out because really it takes a congressional vote on this. And so I think there's going to be a lot of changes happening politically, combined with

the changes happening with AI being applied to drug discovery. We're going to see a lot more molecules coming out a lot faster as well. And something has to give, something has to change, because the speed of what development is occurring at versus the speed of approval, there's a massive mismatch right now. Yeah, the AI and big data is just going to be a whole different way of doing things. And again, we don't know the implication yet. But let's talk about health. How do you frame that now?

What should people be doing? I realize that although I worked out and sort of paid reasonable attention to my food intake my whole life, I never really focused on it with patients. And I feel ashamed of that. I apologize for that. And so I'm getting more and more and more involved in diet and exercise

and helping people move more and eat less and make good choices on food and whatnot. But there's more to it than functional medicine. Talk about what you're doing. Right. So basically functional medicine, which is kind of my new career in medicine now is root cause medicine. And it's really looking at why do we get all these diseases in the first place, right? And so there's now this whole group of physicians, a new group of physicians being developed that are focusing on the why of disease and hopefully once people get to focus on that we'll have a lot more a lot less disease in our future to begin with right and so the whole the whole premise behind functional medicine is to make sure that you never get to

the point where you're dealing with frailty Alzheimer's disease, cardiovascular, heart attacks, etc. And we know now, the science shows us that most of these diseases develop 30 years before you actually feel symptoms. Symptoms are a massive lagging indicator in whether or not you're going to have a disease. If you wait for symptoms before you get a blood test or before you really look under the hood of your health, then it's almost too late. Now you need a drug. Now you need a surgery potentially to correct this. So what does root cause medicine tell us? Well, most diseases are rooted in what's called metabolic disease. Metabolic disease is our body's inability to handle the immense amount of energy that we're

putting into it and the disposal of glucose and that energy product. And so how do we look at metabolic disease as one of the root causes and prevent that from being a problem in the future? Another big root cause of disease is our constant and consistent exposure to toxins. We live in one of the most toxic environments ever in human history. How do we minimize toxic exposure in our day-to-day? Dr. Shaw, I want to stop you there because I know you can do this. And I always get concerned when people use the word toxin because my impulse is to go, show me the chemical structure of a toxin, just one of the ones you're concerned with. And I'm sure you can do that. So this is my opportunity to actually ask somebody.

It's a term that is thrown around very casually. So which things are you specifically concerned about and how are you intervening on that? Yes, okay. So if you look at the Environmental Working Group's website, ewg.org, great website. They list all the toxins that we know have a negative effect on our biology, either higher risk of cancer, higher risk of

metabolic disease, higher risk of all the diseases, basically. There are associations between specific chemical compounds causing these problems. So some of those chemical compounds are found in ultra processed food, for example. Okay. We see a lot of pesticides in our, in the supermarkets now as well. So those pesticides can also cause a lot about is microplastics in almost everything that we serve our food on, everything we drink our water out of, there's microplastics everywhere. And we're actually seeing these plastics in our testicles, in our sperm, in our brain, and in our blood vessels as well, serving as a scaffolding for atherosclerosis to develop. So there's literally

thousands of toxins. Babies are being born now with no less than 200 toxins that we can find in their umbilical blood. And they're just kind of everywhere. But what we know about a lot of these toxins is that they're man-made and they're kind of in our environment, in our society, all over the place. And they're finding our way in our biology. So how do you get them out? That's the hard part, right? So the first thing you have to do is minimize your exposure. I mean, it's all about minimizing exposure and then letting your body do its job for detoxifying you. So I was talking about the Pareto principle, Dr. Drew. What's the 20% of the stuff? What is the 20% of the action that you can take that will detoxify 80% of your life?

So we can talk about air, water, and food, for example. Your air, where do you spend the most time every day? You probably spend it in the studio and then in your bedroom at sleep. Have a really good air purifier in those two areas, right? Especially if you live in the middle of a city where there's a lot of exposure to air pollutants. Secondly is your water. Drink your water not out of plastic bottles, out of glass bottles as much as possible from a filtered source. There's all sorts of filtration systems you can get that you can install in your home that are not very expensive or even the filter jugs you can use as long as you're changing those filters. And then your food, try to eat organic as much as possible.

But if you can't find good organic produce, go to the EWG website again and look at the Dirty Dozen. They give you 12 foods that have the highest level of chemical toxins inside of them. And I'm a big believer in the number one thing you can do in your food is in eliminating as much as possible ultra-processed food. This is the food that's found in the center of the supermarket, in boxes, or in cans, or in the refrigerator, that has a long list of ingredients that you can't even pronounce half of them. Those are the foods that you want to minimize your exposure to. yeah so so as you say kind of keeping it simple and getting the going for the high return moves that you could do easily there in my mind there are three and you really kind of mentioned them

um one was i'm very concerned about the estrogen estrogenizing of our country uh there's a book called estrogen nation estrogen nation and so plastics and that the the uh the pfas whatever they call them uh that i'm really i'm concerned about i'm convinced that that's a problem so plastics and you mentioned don't drink out of plastic bottles that makes perfect sense to me uh number two is the metabolic issues which is is these ultra-processed foods, these incredible exposures to carbohydrates and sugars, which are just killing us. I mean, that's how you got to be 50 pounds overweight, I'm sure. It's that hyperinsulinemic state that we're in

is extraordinarily damaging to our endothelium, yes? Absolutely, absolutely. I'm curious to hear what your third one is. So that's number two. My third one is that's number two my third one is vegetable and seed oils that's my third one to try to

I don't know how you feel about this but back to tallow and butter and things like that and you know properly sourced and properly sourced everything properly sourced food that's why we talk about

paleo valley here all the time and those are really easy things to do that have rather dramatic, potentially dramatic impact on your health. Yeah, I mean, those seed oils, like you mentioned, that's another perfect example of an ultra-processed food. Those are highly refined. That puts you through multiple chemical processes before you actually get the oil on a bottle.

And that oil in that bottle looks so beautiful. It looks clean. It looks like it shouldn't be not healthy for you, but it's because it's chemically produced to look that way. In fact, they bleach it to make it look that way. What's the opposite of that is butter, tallow, extra virgin olive oil, et cetera. So why not stick to the things that we know?

That's what you should be using. Simple choices. Simple choices and taste better, by the way. And the vegetable oils. Don't forget Paleo Valley tallow. No, I know. We use it all the time. But the vegetable oils can become carcinogenic when you heat them up.

And yet we've replaced tallow with these kinds of oils all over the place in the fryers. It's just absurd to me. All right. So let's talk a little bit about NR. And we did another infusion because Susan is over the moon about this. Can we talk about it? Are we allowed to talk about it?

Is there? Yeah, go ahead. I think we can talk about it now. Absolutely, yeah. It was in secret stage for a little while. Right. And Susan felt so good after that. She kept obsessing about it.

We got to go back. C. dot job. We got to go back. Got to go back. I feel great, too. And we actually accelerated our infusion just so we could be used as, you know, provide you some clinical information when we were in there and no side effects whatsoever. The jaw thing.

A little jaw clenches thing but it was nothing tongue was tingling if they had brought it to my attention i really wouldn't noticed it but but to me uh nad nicotine riboside this is really the oxidative state of our cells and our mitochondria really another very important area talk to us about that a little bit right so now taking it down to the biology at a cellular level, we have little organelles inside of every cell that are called mitochondria. These are the powerhouses of our cell. They actually have a really interesting history. When we were single cellular organisms.

They were bacteria at one time. Exactly. They were bacteria. I was studying biochemistry. Listen, I was studying biochemistry before that theory was made explicit. And I was studying energy production by mitochondria. And I'd been working or something, and somehow I'd seen bacteria.

We were working on E. coli. I went, wait a minute, they have the same transporter in their cell wall. And that's how the E. coli creates energy. I wonder if this is a synergy that allowed animal cells to be, to exist. And lo and behold, that now is the theory. That's exactly what happened.

I mean, they didn't look like little E. coli, right? So what happened was these little bacteriums, they got inside of a single cellular organism and just started making tons of energy. And so the organism was able to divide into two cells, four cells, and become, you know, multicellular organisms. So they're super important. The sad part is, as we age, as we're exposed to toxins, as we're exposed to stress in our lives, we deplete these mitochondria of the ability to make energy. Now, this is not just the energy of like, you know, I feel great every day.

I feel energetic. It's the energy every cell you know i feel great every day i feel energetic it's the energy every cell needs to do its job so the cells of your heart need energy to beat the cells of your liver need energy to detoxify you your cells need energy and sadly as we age and as we are lived these stressed out you know western lifestyles we just don't make enough energy and that's what leads to chronic disease so that's why the mitochondria are super important. I feel like we're going to learn more. It makes sense to me that oxidation is part of the progressive aging and breakdown of cells.

And I believe strongly that oxidation is always part of the breakdown of everything. You know, it just is part of the direction that things go. It's almost like entropy. It's just things go a certain direction. And I just feel like we're going to learn more as time goes on about the benefits of trying to push the oxidative state in the healthier direction with nicotinamide, riboside and other NAD sorts of interventions. I mean, you've got Joe Rogan out there doing NAD infusions and,

you know, he seems to get a lot out of it. I thought when he, his doctor gave an NAD fusion too, after his COVID, I thought that was fascinating. And yet everyone jumped on the ivermectin, which I thought was that that's not what's interesting.

It was interesting. His doctor gave him two NAD infusions and it helped him. Yeah, that was interesting. And I'm willing to bet that NR would be even better. So what is the advance of NR over NAD other than side effects? Right. So just taking a step back, NAD is the precursor to energy, which is ATP. So the mitochondria use NAD to make ATP. Now, people have probably heard of NAD supplements or NMN supplements or nicotinamide riboside supplements, but when you take these supplements orally, some of them are better absorbed and some of them are not so well absorbed. And what we know now with the science is showing that nicotinamide riboside is a form of NAD that is

the best absorbed more readily into the cell. And now we actually have just recently in the last couple months, we actually have the ability to give this intravenously. So giving you a massive boost of NAD over an hour long infusion that you can only get after taking maybe, you know. We did it. We did it in like 20 taking maybe We did it in like 20 minutes. We did it in like 20 minutes. 20 minutes? Maybe it was 30. Right, Susan? Was it like about 30, 20 minutes?

He's exaggerating. How fast was it? It seemed like it was very fast. It was like, no. It was like, well, by the time she put in the drip, it was like 30 to 40. Yeah, it might have been 40 actually. We were pushing it. Yours was faster because I had mine first and you turned yours up.

And the reason like that, for people that don't know, if you go for an NAD IV infusion, it's really uncomfortable. You feel a tightness in your chest, you feel nauseated. And so you're like kind of powering through it, but the NR absorbs so fast into the cell, it doesn't have time to hang out and cause all those symptoms. And so I think it's going to be a revolution in this particular mitochondrial energy, mitochondrial health talk that we're having now. And what's so great about this is now we're attacking all of these diseases at its root cause, at the mitochondrial level.

If you give your mitochondria the energy they need, they will keep your cells healthy. If your cells are healthy for a long period of time, 20, 30 years, you'll never get any of these diseases to start with. So I'm not a big supplement pusher. I believe there's a few supplements everyone should consider things like vitamin D3K2, but measuring levels, things like omega-3s, you know, but I really believe that NAD and specifically the NR form of it is going to be one of those foundational supplements that as the science keeps evolving, we're going to become using this as part of our foundational stack that pretty much everyone should think about. 100% agree. 100% in agreement. There's another one, this pentadecanoic acid,

this we call it fatty, is another one that I believe is going to be alongside of that. Can we go back to the N-Arb infusion and what it felt like yeah so i felt energized and i felt like i had a martini but no hangover um it gave me a lot of energy drew and i went out to dinner and we were like you know we were like noticing things like yeah oh look at that oh look at that art and just you know it kind of makes you wonder. And we were kind of perky. Brighter, sort of brighter. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. I would say, yeah, yeah. I would say what you're experiencing there is the exact opposite of brain fog, right? When you have brain fog, you just don't notice things, you're in a fog. This is mental clarity and acuity. And people even report their vision is better right and that's what that

yeah and i've heard it's also good if you go on a binger and you want to do that after so but um and also if you're or if you're trying to detox from alcohol if you're you know you're going into recovery apparently it's really good for that it does this we know the true nitrogen helps with pregnancy like does this help as well fertility fertility sorry well getting pregnant fertility yeah absolutely it's basically the same molecule giving it iv as taking it orally and you know fertility is just another form of metabolic disease occurring in your you know the ovum and the sperm right and so you if you're if you are not healthy as an organism your ovum and sperm sperm, right? And so if you are not healthy as an organism, your ovum and sperm are not going to be healthy. That's just evolution talking to us.

You want healthy babies to be developed through evolution. And basically, that all happens at a cellular mitochondrial level. Being unhealthy is happening in a cell and in your mitochondria. This counteracts that by giving your cells the energy they need to be healthy. So I have two mercenary questions. Before I ask them, tell me about the menu of services that you have at Next Health, and what should people be doing, why should they go, who should go? Right, right. So, you know, I really, Next Health is our clinical practice. We have locations in LA and also in New York, and we're also going to be all over the country. And we really started off,

Dr. Drew, is foundationally, right? I think we've outsourced our health to this Western medical system, and we've talked about why that's not a good idea. So we want to empower our patients to really take control of their health. How do they do that? We teach them about the 10 to 15 biomarkers. These are blood markers and also other markers like their skeletal muscle mass, their fat mass, et cetera, that they should keep track of, not just on a yearly basis by going to the doctor and getting a blood test. You should track these quarterly. And we tell people what they mean, markers like hemoglobin A1C, which tells you if you're headed towards diabetes,

HSCRP that tells you if you have inflammation developing. So we test these biomarkers on our patients, and then we give them the foundational advice on how to fix these things. It's all about, you know, we talked about diet, avoiding ultra processed food, movement, not being sedentary, walking around every 45 minutes to counteract the negative effects of sedentary behavior, detoxifying your life and getting sleep, making sure you have seven to eight hours of good sleep. How do you know you're having good sleep? You're tracking with some sort of wearable. That's where it starts.

Once we get you in a state of feeling pretty healthy, 80, 90% health, we have technology on site to boost you that last 10% and then even take you over into a state of maximal health. Things like IV nicotinamide, riboside, truniogen. We also do sauna therapy followed by cold therapy, which is shown to boost mitochondrial levels as well. We do things like hyperbaric oxygen. like cold therapy, which is shown to boost mitochondrial levels as well. We do things like hyperbaric oxygen. We do other detoxifying treatments like therapeutic plasma exchange. So we have these all under one roof for people to take advantage of once we've got the basics kind of down and people are re-empowered to take control of their health.

And they just go on the website to access this stuff? Yeah, just go to next dash health.com and you can find out more about it and read all about it yeah can you talk a little bit about uh the beetle stem cells okay i'm gonna do that next oh okay so i'm about so here come my mercenary questions but before susan jumps on that i want to ask one other thing um which is nicotinamide riboside is a chloride salt i believe and there's there's amalate salt out there and there's NMN also. And these are other sort of attempts to raise NAD. And they're less expensive than NR.

Should people avoid those? Or if they can't afford truniogen, should they access those just so they're doing something? I've always wanted to ask that question. Yeah, it's a great question. There are other ways to raise NAD levels that don't even involve taking a supplement. Things like high-intensity intermittent training, cold showers actually help as well. So there's other things that you can do that will increase your NAD levels.

And just a quick Google search will give you a list of five to 10 things you can do on your own. Now, some of these other supplements, NMN, the FDA has said it needs to be studied more before it can be sold as a supplement. So it's kind of off the table. People are still selling it. The biggest problem I see is there are studies that measure what is actually the content inside of those

supplements of the molecule that they're saying that they're giving you, whether it be NAB, NMN, or NR. And it's mind-blowing, Dr. Drew, when you see that most of the times these supplements have a level of zero of what's actually, they say that's on the bottle, in the supplement. People are just wasting their money and their time. At worst, they're also getting a false security like they're doing something. And so I can send you a link to the study. And I was really surprised that the supplement industry is very unregulated. Just because it has 50,000 five stars on Amazon doesn't mean anything, right? You have to look for that third party testing. And most people don't do that. I ruminovate about glutathione and

N-acetylcysteine, whether those things could, these are other ways. Again, I know you'd prefer not to supplement, but if you're going to supplement, would that be a reasonable thing? Yeah. So, I mean, I don't prefer not to supplement. And in fact, I'm probably on like 10 supplements myself. NAC is one of them. I just think that if you're supplementing, you want to look at the science, make sure you feel comfortable with what you're trying to achieve. If you have a certain budget for supplements, you want to spend it on the high value supplements versus this long tail of

maybe it's helpful. And lastly, you want to pick the ones that are third-party tested. And so there are brands out there that I believe sell mostly to physicians and you can find in clinical practices, sticking to those kinds of brands I think are very important. Interesting. And then this is Susan's question, that I'm having a mesenchymal stem cell injections into a joint.

And the harvesting is from bone marrow and fat and the isolation and the process of creating the mesenchymal concentration is pretty well established. So her question is, and I'm working with a practitioner that has good results with it and whatnot as an ortho and as radiology training and whatnot. Her question is, why not pluripotent stem cells? Why not those good stem cells I got in Costa Rica? And I keep saying, well. Say that in layman's terms. So I'll let Dr. Shaw answer. So go ahead, Dr. Shaw, you say.

Okay, so first of all, we need to clarify the definitions a little bit. Pluripotent stem cells are stem cells that can basically turn into any kind of tissue. Those aren't really available for injection anywhere because they can uncontrolled, even if you inject them to a joint, cause a tumor to develop. So what you really want is either a mesenchymal stem cell or a hematopoietic stem cell. So one comes from blood tissue. Other ones comes from like fat, like as you mentioned. I'm having both. I'm having bone marrow and fat harvesting. Right. Perfect. That's one way of doing it.

See Susan, I'm doing okay. We're doing okay here. Yeah. So far so good. She's worried about it. Go see Dr. Shaw. Have him do it. And then there's the allograft stem cells as well go ahead okay so the allograft tell us about that yes those are the same mesenchymal or hematopoietic stem cells where they come from donated umbilical cord blood okay and so this is not coming from you it's coming from someone else has donated it. And what I particularly like about those is that they are younger, right? They're coming from the umbilical cord.

They have a lot more of what we call exosomes that do the signaling, right? So. How dare you? You implying that my stem cells are old. How dare you? But of course they are. They're just as old as mine.

True. Just as old as mine. I got a couple years. Yeah. There's all sorts of techniques out there, Dr. Drew. And I think the most important thing is just go to a skilled practitioner,

one that really knows the options, what they're doing. The stem cell industry, just like the supplement industry, it's just the wild, wild west're doing. The stem cell industry, just like the supplement industry, it's just a wild, wild west out there. And you got to be really careful when you're someone reputable. Well, listen, we have been very grateful for you and your staff. We love the NR infusions.

We are contemplating, Susan is on me to do other stuff with you guys, including the umbilical cord stem cell and whatnot. But we do, I am a big advocate of this shift. Well, you do like comprehensive, what do you call it? When you go to the doctor, yeah, workups and you have a lot of different things. But where do we go to your website again, if you're in the LA area? Next.health.com. Next-health.com. Yeah.

Next-health.com. Next-health.com. Is there anything else? Did I leave anything out? Do you want any other call to action for people? You know, I think a lot of people ask me about the longevity movement and where it's going. Like, how long are we going to live, right? Are we going to live to 120, 150? What's the potential out there? I just tell people, look, science and technology and biotechnology,

these are all accelerating at an exponential pace right now. So we may be very surprised that therapeutics that are coming out in the next 10 or 15 years, what everyone's job is right now is to stay healthy and live long enough to see what happens, right? Maybe nothing will happen and we won't have a pill that makes us live to under 20, but at least you enjoy the next 80 years of your life that you have. And that's increasing your health span. We've done a terrible job over the last 50 years increasing. In fact, health span has not increased at all. It's decreased, but lifespan has increased, right? We're living to 80, but we're living in a miserable state of disease after the age of 55, 65. And just focus on

increasing your health span for now. Go back to the basics and then use some things. You might have spent a little bit of money, but it's worth it. Like NR, maybe you sign up for a membership where you get a sauna access, cryo access, cold plunge, or just take a cold shower. Do some of these things that won't hurt,

but potentially could be very beneficial. And I think you'll enjoy the benefits of increased health span. And who knows, you'll live long enough to get that increased lifespan. Yeah. Peter Attia emphasizes this all the time, that there is a cliff that we all fall off of where we develop sarcopenia, where our muscle mass goes down. And the idea is to push that back as far as possible and maintain your mobility, your functionality. Then all the metabolic and endothelial function interventions you've been talking about, all very important

in not just lifespan, but healthspan. Really an important ingredient in all this. So Dr. Shaw, thank you so much for joining us. Hope to see you again very soon. Thank you. And we're going to come to your podcast too soon. What about your podcast? Do you want to?

We got your podcast. Yes, let's do it. I can't wait to have you on. We'll have IV cocktails. Tell them about where can people find that? Where can people find your podcast? I'm in quick drinking, mean it's good for me yeah it's t e n d and it'll be on apple and all the places in october great look forward to it yep you're

gonna be the pioneer of talk soon thank you so much thank you so much talk soon take care i've got it our ivy cocktails together yeah're going to do that again. End of the month. Or yeah, like I think, I don't know. You're so hot on those things. No, let's do it. I'm fine. I'm good with it. But you know, I want to say something that I'm curious about.

I had a cortisone shot in my knee yesterday. I've had, my knee has been bothering me for a few weeks and I'm just, I was miserable. I couldn't walk or anything. And I went to the doctor, and he said, oh, you know, this is going on. And he goes, I'm going to put a needle in your knee and, you know, give you a shot. And it worked, and I'm like, why didn't I do that sooner, first of all? But secondly, why don't you get that in your shoulder for your pain relief?

Oh, because you can't do it on the shoulder. It breaks down. It dissolves. The tendons break. Okay. You could do it if you're younger or if you don't have... There's various reasons. I mean, it can be done.

They do inject shoulders, but it tends to... The knee is what we use the steroids in, for sure. It's way different. So how does that work, though? Like, it just took the pain away. I mean, I just rubbed my capsid in all over my knee too and that helped but um they they well in addition to the steroid they usually mix lidocaine in there so you're actually getting numbing of everything right away that's why that's why you feel immediately better the lidocaine so it doesn't hurt and then

no no no they do the lidocaine so it numbs up so you get immediate relief and then over the next two days the steroid kind of kicks in and it gets better probably the pain will come back but then it'll go away again that's when the lidocaine wears off pain comes back and then the steroids kick in and then it goes away but it's crazy i can bend my knee again it's just bizarre but the steroid only lasts so long before everything kind of comes back and you only do it so many times and so frequently. Is it the pain that's making me not bend my knee, or is it the stiffness of the leg?

It's the pain and inflammation, both. Okay. And steroid is a very powerful anti-inflammatory. But if I wanted to inject stem cell treatment into my knee, that might help it too. We will talk to our doctor about that. But yes, it might. Everybody needs to know that I had a total knee replacement.

You did not have a total knee replacement. I had dislocation when I was 20. You may one day need a total knee replacement. That could happen. I don't want it. But yeah, I made it to 45 years without any problem. All of a sudden, it just started bothering me. Wait, Susan, why do you think you had a total knee replacement?

Well, I had a total dislocation. She had destroyed her knee in a ski accident. How does Drew know that you still have your original knee and you don't? I was confused there. Because she misused the term. A total knee replacement is metal on both sides of the knee. You have complete replacement i had a wire in there but it it's dissipated into my my now everything's grown back but i have

one leg that i've been babying for 45 years she's done pretty well with it but again back to the steroids run and i don't do sports and i you asked why no steroids because you can only do it so many times and that moves you towards knee replacement, which you don't want to do. So I'm just rubbing the capsidon on there, Caleb, as much as I can. Oh, yeah. I use it on my hands. I'm pressing all these buttons for the show. I use it on my hands.

It's perfect. I know. I have to get my thumbs looked at too. But it's funny. I haven't been to the orthopedist in so long. I think it's been like 20 years. Eric said he dislocated his patella that is a rough injury uh elon fired over 90 of twitter employees yep well when when he got

there that's what happened that's right you were telling me about so these were both very interesting guests today as always thank you emily barsh um that guy's super smart jon Jonathan Turley is a national treasure. I think that Next Health company is spreading all over the USA. So it's just a place. It's going to be like, what do you call it? Affiliate? Not an affiliate. Franchise.

Franchise. So look for it. Next.health.com. I know it's in Vegas. It's going to be. This one in particular is in the Hollywood Beverly Hills area on Santa Monica Boulevard if you're looking for it. And I think there's one also in Studio City.

But Dr. Shah is at the one in West LA, I think. Oh, I thought he was in Hollywood. Well, Beverly Hills or whatever. Hollywood. Well, it Hills or whatever. Well, it's on Santa Monica Boulevard. So I don't know if we have that link anywhere, Caleb, but we should probably put it on the website.

Yeah, it's up there. Okay, good job. Here is what Emily Barsh tells us about our guest tomorrow. Since March, 2020, Ivor Cummings, who is our guest at noon tomorrow, has been dedicated to problem-solving, analytical, and biochemical expertise

through deep and revealing analysis of the COVID-19 pandemic situation. He has gotten pushback from various organizations, but he has usually proven to be correct. So we will get into it. Ivor Cummings. Similar things can be said

of Peter McCullough, Dr. Peter McCullough, who will be here on August 20th. Nicole Shanahan, we are going to go to her. She is RFK Jr.'s running mate. We're going to go interview her. She's going to be in her studio. And August 22nd, Dr. Kelly Victory

with Senator Ron Johnson. Salty Cracker makes command performance. And we will see you tomorrow at noon with Ivor Cummings. Re-indeed. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only.

I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and

helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.