Ask Dr. Drew - Censored Surgeon General: Dr. Joseph Ladapo on mRNA Heart Deaths w/ Dr. Kelly Victory – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 154

Episode Date: December 19, 2022

When Dr. Joseph Ladapo shared an alarming study on increased heart-related deaths in young males who took mRNA vaccines, his post was immediately censored by tech platforms. But the takedown didn't last long: within hours, the censors must have realized that they'd just tried to silence the actual Surgeon General of Florida. 「  LINKS FROM EPISODE: https://drdrew.com/1272022  」 If they'll censor the top medical spokesperson of a state with nearly 22,000,000 people – simply for sharing medical information that conflicts with the prevailing narrative – what else are they willing to hide?  ABOUT DR. JOE LADAPO Dr. Joseph Ladapo is the Surgeon General of Florida and professor at University of Florida College of Medicine. He received his MD from Harvard Medical School and a PhD in Health Policy from Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. Dr. Ladapo worked as an associate professor of general internal medicine and a health policy researcher at UCLA David Geffen School of Medicine. He lives in Tampa, Florida with his wife and children. Follow Dr. Ladapo's official Florida government account at https://twitter.com/FLSurgeonGen  Read his book "Transcend Fear: A Blueprint for Mindful Leadership in Public Health" on Amazon. 「 SPONSORED BY 」 • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get 10% off with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. Hundreds of millions of people have received a COVID-19 vaccine, and serious adverse reactions are uncommon. Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician and Dr. Kelly Victory is a board-certified emergency specialist. Portions of this program will examine countervailing views on important medical issues. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 WITH DR. KELLY VICTORY 」 Dr. Kelly Victory MD is a board-certified trauma and emergency specialist with over 30 years of clinical experience. She served as CMO for Whole Health Management, delivering on-site healthcare services for Fortune 500 companies. She holds a BS from Duke University and her MD from the University of North Carolina. Follow her at https://earlycovidcare.org 「 GEAR PROVIDED BY 」 • BLUE MICS - Find your best sound at https://drdrew.com/blue • ELGATO - See how Elgato's lights transformed Dr. Drew's set: https://drdrew.com/sponsors/elgato/ 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome everyone. Dr. Kelly and I today are very excited about the guest. It is Dr. Joseph Latipo. He is, of course, the Surgeon General from the state of Florida. I've been an admirer of his from afar for quite some time and very anxious to speak with him. So hopefully I won't gush too much, but I think he has conducted himself admirably in tough positions during this extraordinarily confusing experience. He is, in addition to the Surgeon General of the state of Florida, of course, he's an MD and a PhD, the MD from Harvard Medical School, the PhD from the Health Policy School at Harvard. He also worked as an Associate Professor in Medicine and Health Policy at UCLA.

So Dr. Latipo has well more than enough training and experience to have a reasonable opinion that should be listened to in the setting of unclear circumstances such as we've been through in COVID. And he has made some decisions and called some shots that he was criticized for that turned out to be right, of course. We'll get into all that. Andrew, well, I'm not sure we'll have time for call today, but then, of course, Dr. Kellett will join us as well. We'll be with it right after this our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre the psychopath started this right he was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography ptsd love addiction fentanyl and heroin ridiculous i'm a doctor for say where the

hell you think i learned that i'm just, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. You have trouble, you can't stop, and you want help stopping, I can help.

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I would like to proceed without any delay to introduce my guest, the Florida Surgeon General, Dr. Joseph Latipo. Dr. Latipo, thank you and welcome. Hey, Dr. Drew. Thanks for having me on. It's a privilege. So I have a couple of broad questions for you to start out with. Um, one I've been just sort of wanting to ask you because you've had an

interesting perspective on what we've been through this experience, meaning the COVID, the whole COVID experience and our government's response to the world's response to it. Really? Let's not just say the Western response. There was a world response that was difficult to understand, bizarre and eyeopening. what the hell happened to our profession

yeah and what's still happening i would say dr drew because there's there's been very little appreciation or very little reconciliation with what our part in uh so many of the harmful, coercive, inhumane policies that happen, even though many of those policies, the federal government and most states have pretty much backed off from, no longer carting eight-year-olds before they can walk into restaurants in New York City or Los Angeles. It's coming back, LA maybe. Maybe coming back. Maybe, yeah.

I think that's the issue. There's really been no actual accountability and acceptance of things that were clearly either immoral or just not smart policies. And yeah, so whatever's happened to our profession is still happening. One of the things I noticed was the excesses of public health, this fiat authority without the need for defend their position at all, which to me is just ridiculous, but that's a wrinkle in our constitution. But more, there was another sort of piece, another weakness that was exposed to me, which was that lo and behold, all the public health officials in real authority are either sociologists, not clinicians, or pediatricians, which makes sense when vaccine policy is a major feature of public health. But when you're trying

to make decisions about adult medicine, they didn't seem prepared to me. For instance, they were freaking out about some of the observations neurologically with COVID, which they didn't know that, guess what? When you talk to old people get sick, their brain shrinks, they get neurological symptoms, and then they get better. That's what happens to old people when they get sick. Well, a pediatrician doesn't know that and freaks out about some of the observations. That's the kind of thing I was seeing happen that another weakness in the public health policy system. Yeah, yeah, that was happening. And I mean, I think you might even be giving them undue credit, Dr. Drew, because I think if you had your PhD in astrophysics, as long as you said

the right things, right? Masks always work. Shutting down schools is like, that's a good idea for children. And everyone's got to take the vaccine. I mean, they didn't care what the heck you studied or where you went to school. That was the thumbs up. But as soon as you said something different, it didn't matter if you were a professor at UCLA or a practicing clinician, you know, you just, you said the wrong things and, oh, and you don't have your, oh, we, maybe you studied this, but your PhD is not in epidemiology. So we can't listen to anything. You know, your PhD is not in epidemiology of rare diseases in between the 21st century so we can't listen right right so it's so bizarre so yeah that that i'm still you're right i'm still running into that kind of nonsense and it's it's hard

to reconcile i i right lately it's been on the vaccine front where if you say anything other than this major push they're making, and I, my thing is like, well, maybe they're right. I just want to understand. I can't understand why I don't really know yet the relative risk of vaccine versus COVID for a 25 year old. Why don't I really know that yet? I mean, there's some evidence that the relative risk does not fall down on the side of vaccinating. And why am I vaccinating infants and three-year-olds? Why am I doing that? Explain to me why I'm doing that.

I just can't get it. And I'm willing to accept that maybe the reason I don't get it is I'm not a pediatrician. I'm an internist. Maybe pediatricians have a different sort of risk decision-making or risk tolerance than an internist does. I'm willing to accept that, but we're not getting any of those answers. We're just getting do it and then crushed if you say anything otherwise, which is bizarre when it comes to vaccine policy. I don't give shingles or pneumovacs to five-year-olds.

I don't give Shingrix and Prevnar to 15-year-olds. There's age-targeted vaccine therapies in almost all situations. Why this vaccine, if you bring that up, you're somehow a sinner? I know. It's, we've taken, and you know, it's also interesting because many people think that, oh, well, Dr. Fauci and Dr. Walensensky are right everyone should get it from the little baby to the 90 year old but we're actually the outlier in this country i mean that's the paradox of it that's the irony of it most european countries they don't have many of them are not even recommending these vaccines anymore in young people you know they have age cut off right or

special circumstances younger people who have conditions so we are really the outlier and to this day there's not a there's not a shred of randomized clinical trial evidence that shows a health benefit in children i mean it doesn't exist it doesn't exist and so so given given that construct which is absolutely accurate which we're the only ones doing this, explain to me why. Please, just explain to me. Help me understand. Talk to me. But to have collegial conversation today seems to be impossible.

I mean, I vaccinate my older patients. I had some interesting calls today with a couple of patients that were in their 80s that had net had net covid were masking diligently and didn't want the vaccine but we're it was it gets complicated even in the elderly population for a 25 year old i'm seeing tons of supraventricular arrhythmias i've seen myocarditis i've not seen covid and i'm just one practitioner i there's something going on there and I'm really concerned about it. And just because I'm concerned, I'm a devil. Right. Right. Well, you know, I wrote a book, transcend fear, a blue print for mindful leadership and public health. And with your question, I talk about it a little bit and I think it, you know, it, it's got different, a few different components. They're the easy ones like

Pfizer they'll vaccinate cattle I mean if they can make a buck they will they will vaccinate they will stick the needle in anything and I get it it's their right too bad that the CDC and the FDA feel that they also need to prop them up but but but so obviously that's a piece, the greed piece with, with them. Something I discussed in the book in more detail that I do think is that vaccines were the best thing since I bred when I came out of medical school and during clinical practice. And it took, very frankly, these just mind bending decisions and policy positions and the denial of data about safety. Just like, oh, if it's bad, we don't want to hear about it from state and federal leadership for me to wake up to the fact that something else was going on. And I do think that is a part of it, the indoctrination that we often receive in the medical community and the public health community about vaccines. And, and it's not, I think, and I'm not saying something against or for them. I'm saying that you can't make, if you want to make rational public health decisions,

you have to consider them like you consider every other medication that people put in their body yes and yes and you will be able to make the best decisions for public health if you don't do that if you give them the benefit of the doubt and basically come in with this mindset that they have to be a good thing I mean you're set up for lots of different cognitive decision errors, which is exactly part of what we've seen. Yeah. And I would argue that the whole non-pharmacological intervention when safety uber alice became this weird clarion call, that the risk-reward analysis that we do on a daily basis with every patient, with every decision, was completely tossed out. It was like no risk analysis, no risk-reward considerations.

And again, as we talked about earlier, some of these people were sociologists and things they have no ability to make. They don't understand how to make it. They've never made those sorts of decisions, so why would we expect them to? Yeah, and somehow, and nothing her, but except that I don't like our ideas, but the woman who, you know, Dr. Ferrer, I think Barbara Ferrer in Los Angeles, she's, she has, I'm sure she's a great social worker or social work scientist or whatever her training is, but she has, she's not a doctor. And, and, you know, she's this idea of, of considering risk benefits and nuances

is just totally foreign to her. So I, I totally agree with you. And it's, you know, it's, it's been a problem in the pandemic. And unfortunately, a lot of people have been, have been injured, whether it's moral injury from being forced or coerced to take something or participate in something like, you know, masking their kid or whatever that they didn't want to do, or even physical injury and not having any sort of, any sort of, you know, clinical care or attention. Rather you get called names because you happen to develop this complication that you think was because of a vaccine you took. But no one believes that's possible.

And the psychopathogenesis is just off the chain right now. We're starting to read up. From the beginning of the pandemic, I said we are destroying 8 to 15-year-olds. They are now 10 to, you know, sort of 18, whatever. And now you're starting to see that age group have suicide substance everything up up up and it's good plus you know we had uh yet unexplained um all-cause mortality up that i'd love to know what that is and why there's not a rush to explain that in western countries is very hard to understand but i but i yeah i have one more question for you before we bring kelly in here

which was florida had a really, and that's the kindest word I can think of, experience around monoclonal antibodies. When you guys put out your mobile units and started to, I thought, oh my God, there it is. Monoclonal antibodies kept me out of the hospital. I had Delta and I got really sick and I got amlanivimab at the time. And I know they just took beptolevimab off the market like yesterday, which is one of the last ones. Separate conversation. What happened in Florida where you were being given adequate amounts of monoclonal antibodies? You got mobile units. Public health should be about teaching people also how to respond to their illness when they

get it and what kind of treatments are available and where you get them. Nobody except Florida did that. And you did it in a way I admired it like crazy. Mobile units with monoclonal antibodies, this is the best. And then it was shut down. And it looked like it was shut down by the federal government as some sort of retribution for something to me. But you tell me what happened. Yeah, well, you're right.

And I actually want to say that, you know, thank goodness for Governor DeSantis, because I've heard from many people, even outside of the state, they didn't even know what monoclonal antibodies were until he started talking about it. And so he saved lives in Florida and saved lives outside of Florida. And that's a fact. And it's just a shame that public health officials were just trying to railroad everyone onto one track and consider treatment a distraction from the vaccine campaign or the stay at home campaign or the wear the mask everywhere campaign. And what you're referring to, it's almost been a year now. I guess it's been like 10 months or so. But we've been using them in Florida and the feds pulled them based on laboratory data about Omicron and the sensitivity of the affinity of some of the monoclonals to the Omicron. And my position during that time was, well, you need more than considering the limited options at that time. And Paxlovid wasn't available. There weren't really, you know,

there were off-label things, but there wasn't anything that was sort of widely accepted by the medical community, for example, as a treatment. So considering the lack of alternatives, you really need more than some experiment in the laboratory to pull something. But not surprisingly, common sense wasn't something that showed up all of a sudden with the federal government. pulled it when nothing else was really available for people to take on an outpatient basis. That was another decisional error. That was a decision error. It was a bad decision that they did that. And, you know, we fought back, which is, you know, appropriate. It's one of the fun things I like about my job is that when they say nonsense, whatever the issue, transgender care on little kids, hormone blockers on little kids, or vaccine mandates or other silly stuff that they do, we get to push back and give a voice for people who feel similarly. So that's history now, but the problem certainly continues to persist with just policies that make zero sense

on the federal side when uh it really kind of rolled off your tongue rather easily i forget your exact language but how the federal government ignored treatment uh to railroad people into these fear-based solitary policies about stay at home and or get a vaccine. When I hear you say it, it makes me a little sick to my stomach. It's so opposite. I feel ashamed for our profession. That's just bad medicine. It's just the worst.

Using fear? Since when did we ever, when did public health ever think using fear is the way, did we use fear with HIV and AIDS? Is that what you're, shame and fear? Did we use fear in the 1918 influenza pandemic? It's just such a disgusting move. And then in the name of doing that

to ignore keeping people alive with treatments that had they known about they would ask for and come for it's just a breathtaking i i hope the history is written in such a way that reflects how breathtaking some of these decisions were but in any event um we're gonna take a little break. Well, I appreciate it. I, and I appreciate you just saying it so casually because that's what happened. That's exactly what happened. And it's, it's what another element of confusion for me is why our peers don't see that or why they support that or why that's okay. Or it's just so, so, so confusing to me that, that we can't do what we've always done in medicine, was bring

these topics up and challenge each other with that. So that's what Dr. Kelly and I have been trying to do on this program. It's just like, let's talk to everybody and see what's going on. See, if I don't agree with somebody's position, we used to call that interesting. They're interesting ideas. I don't agree with them. I don't like the argument, whatever it is, or I disagree for various reasons, but how interesting that they made me think about outside the box. That's all we called that. We didn't say that needs to be silenced. We called it interesting. Isn't that something?

It is. And I could not agree with you more, Dr. Drew. And it's, it's just so obvious how profoundly unethical it was to ignore people's preferences and force them into your conception of what they should do and how they should behave. And yeah, and then it's, of course, ludicrous that it's got to be codified right you have to have laws in fact that that tell doctors what doctors can and can't say for this disease i mean give me a break really you're passing a law by lawmakers who've never been to medical school and you know i mean it's just so absurd it's like a saturday night live kid except it's not. It's real life. Well, it's interesting to me that a lot of the extremely outlying problematic phenomenon you are aware of, which I'm glad you are, is out here in California.

And so I know that's what you're talking about. And so I appreciate you knowing the names of the people we've been struggling with, the policies that are in place in the state. I've talked to the board of medical quality assurance, the president, who's a lovely attorney. And I felt reassured speaking with her that they were not going to be any excesses. And then I woke up the next morning in a cold sweat going, what happens when she's out? What happens if somebody else is in there? So, cause they have this law and they can, you know, as you know, the excesses come. All right. Let's, um,

if you, anything else before I wrap up for a brief second to bring Dr. Victory in here. No, we're good. Yeah. All right. Let's,

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Some platforms have banned the discussion of controversial topics. This episode ends here. The rest of the show is available at drdrew.tv. There's nothing in medicine that doesn't boil down to a risk-benefit calculation. It is the mandate, public health, to consider the impact of any particular mitigation scheme on the entire population. This is uncharted territory, Drew. And welcome back and welcome, Dr. Kelly Victory. And Dr. Victory, I give you the Surgeon General for the state of California.

Thank you. Dr. Latipo, thank you so much for being here. I've really been looking forward to this conversation. You are a true ray of sunshine during this entire debacle. And I can't tell you how much we appreciate your leadership. Germaine, to your conversation with Drew at the opening, I have said many, many times during this pandemic, I hope the next crisis involves something like international financial markets or commodities pricing or something I know nothing about

so that I can opine tirelessly and argue with people who have years of graduate education and have spent their lives doing this. I just can't wait. I'm just hopeful that we're rebuilding, you know, Trump carburetors or something. Because I got opinions, boy, I got opinions on that. You are certainly no stranger to the egregious censorship that's gone on during this. You and I have both suffered it, certainly. I'm still banned from Twitter. But one of the things that I got a time out for is a study, and I'm going to get a little bit more into the weeds here on some of this. It was this study that you have pointed out, and I believe also took some flack for, regarding the cardiac impacts or

cardiac ill effects, myocarditis specifically, the risk in 18 to 39-year-old males. And that has helped you to form a well-educated opinion, a well-informed opinion with regard to the advice regarding vaccines in that particular age group. So I'd like to start by, can you just sort of recap those findings from that study and sort of where you stood then or where your stance came down on vaccination policies as a result of that study. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, I should say first,

Dr. Victory, it's great to see you. And I know you've been in this fight from as far back as I can remember during the pandemic. I've appreciated your stances and your, you know, your balanced presentation of science and common sense. I've appreciated that. I've appreciated that. So we, we, we did, we did a study that, that is weird that we had to do it considering not only was already known about clinical myocarditis in adolescent boys and young men, but also what was starting to be realized about subclinical myocarditis. So these are cases of myocarditis that don't make it to the hospital, so they don't get counted in these studies of myocarditis with people showing up hospitalized. But nonetheless, individuals have evidence of cardiac injury. And so far, even though estimates, maybe it's one in somewhere between one in 2000 and one in

10,000 young people who are males have, are hospitalized with myocarditis after these mRNA COVID-19 vaccines, the second shot or, or more, or the boosters for, for that is, you know, that's uncommon, but there's a study, as you know, out of Thailand that found, I think a rate around two or three percent for evidence of cardiac injury after the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines, which is huge, right? That's an enormous to think that, you know, three out of a hundred people, two, three out of a hundred people

are having evidence of cardiac injury. And there's another study, which I'm also sure you're aware of that was done I think in Switzerland at the University of Basel that was a study of health care workers after receiving a booster and around two or three percent of them had elevated cardiac enzymes after the booster. So there's a, the cardiac profile of these vaccines has not been well studied, should have been already well studied. Millions of them have been given out to, you know, tens of millions of them have been given out to the populations most likely to be affected. Like, why don't we don't the answers to these questions already? Right. But because of all that, we looked more closely at specifically cardiac deaths, because what, you know, for the people in the audience who aren't clinical, one of the concerns that you have when there is inflammation in the heart is that you could have a fatal arrhythmia. That is how sometimes people essentially drop dead or die

suddenly is from a fatal arrhythmia. And our hearts are like electricity in terms of how the message or the communication for the heart to contract and to beat is. So areas of the heart that have inflammation that would normally be carrying would be conducting that message to beat can be thrown off and that can lead to a fatal arrhythmia so it's not a trivial concern and we looked at the outcome of sudden cardiac death in floridians, men and women, different age groups. And we found the main finding was that in young men, unlike any other population that we looked at, in young men, there was a signal

for a much higher risk of cardiac death. There was a signal that indicated that these COVID-19 vaccines were increasing, increasing the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were increasing cardiac death. And, you know, and then we said that, and at this point in the pandemic, it doesn't make sense to, you know, almost everyone who's dying from COVID at this point is older. It doesn't make sense to be using a drug that potentially increases cardiac death in young people. It just doesn't make sense.

And they've all been exposed already. They all have antibodies, 85% exposed. So at very minimum, you're giving them the risk of the vaccine. If someone wants to make the case that the COVID is the higher risk than the vaccine, at minimum, we're giving them a vaccine and the COVID risk. We're giving them both at minimum. That's what we're doing. But I have a question for both of you guys.

I was thinking about this morning. I I've we've seen Dr. Dr. McCullough makes a lot of spike protein in the myocardial tissue in the, in the parenchyma of the myocardium. Dr. Ryan Cole makes a lot of the spike protein and inflammatory process being in the endothelium and thereby being really kind of an endotheliitis that is affecting

the heart. I personally have seen strange, I've told Kelly this repeatedly, strange, really sort of AV nodal source arrhythmias. I mean, high node arrhythmias in young males. I don't know. I've never seen that before. Rates of 250 in these high node sources. And that to me seems neither the endothelitis or the myocarditis. Maybe it's a residual of one or the other. My question to both of you is, what do we think the pathophysiology is?

Do we just not really know yet? Because they're not answering those questions? Well, I'd love to hear Dr. Latipo's thoughts on it. I can tell you, I think it's multifaceted. I think some of it is pure inflammation around the AV node. I think there's no question there's also deposition of both spike protein and lipid nanoparticles in the hypothalamus and in other areas of the brain that actually impact and control rate. We know that there's some androgenetic

components to it. There's some adrenal component. People are having spikes of blood pressure, erratic and labile blood pressures that may be related to catecholamines and other uh yes so there's a lot i think i don't think it's one simple one size fits all but i think the important thing about what dr latipo is presenting is you the study you did in florida looked at 18 to 39 year olds the taiwan study looked at 13 to 18 year olds so we now have covered a, you know, three plus decades of life in the Taiwan study, by the way, did an extensive cardiac workups prior to vaccination. They did, you know, all full cardiac workups found these kids had no evidence of cardiac abnormality, and it was nearly 30%, 29.4% ended up with cardiac abnormalities following vaccination. So all of this together,

you know, and I think the critical piece and what I wanted to ask you next with regard to this finding is you're talking about the age group that encompasses fundamentally everyone who's in college, who's in university, the vast majority of military recruits, the vast majority of healthcare workers, the vast majority of frontline public health servants, in place, and all of whom you have determined in this study are putting themselves at significant risk of this potentially fatal thing when they were at a relatively de minimis risk, relatively low risk of any severe outcome from COVID. So these things, it is not simply the medical risk, it's the impact that these mandates have had on all of these different industries, on all of these groups of people.

So talk about in the state of Florida, more than any other state, you guys were addressing those issues with regard to university students, healthcare workers, frontline workers, and developing different policies that made sense on the basis of the scientific findings. Yeah, totally. And hats off to Governor DeSantis because before the legislature fortunately came in and we worked with them and they passed some bills that stopped the vaccine mandates in Florida. Basically, if you wanted to force your employees to do it, you had to accept the Florida exceptions, exemptions. And now, I mean, we, and we had every exemption that you would need to, to not do it, whether it was religious or medical, because you had COVID or you're a young

woman or, or, and want to, or thinking about being pregnant or might be pregnant or whatever there were there were a lot of options but you're you're totally right you're totally right dr victory because because this it was it's ironic right you're forcing people who you know they're they're very unlikely to benefit there's a recent pre preprint that shows 94% of people already even have antibodies, have contracted COVID that was from Harvard and some other universities. You're forcing people to take something

that increasingly we're learning more about cardiac risk without like what's the commensurate benefit at this point in the pandemic? There's none. So you're totally correct. One of the things that Governor DeSantis did early on was at least put out an offer. And I never followed up on it that anybody who was wanted to move from a

state that was requiring them to be vaccinated against their will, whether they were firefighters, police officers, healthcare workers, he was incentivizing people saying, come to Florida, we'll take you. And I thought it was a brilliant move, like so many other of his brilliant moves that are not just political, they actually have teeth to them and make sense and benefit the people of Florida. Did you guys get any takers on that? Did people come to Florida from other states? Oh, my gosh.

So many people have moved to Florida in that first responders, police officers. So many people have moved to Florida for sure. Like, for sure. Many, many, many people have moved to Florida for sure. Like for sure. Many, many, many people have moved here. And yeah, we've got, we've got, we have a lot of new Floridians and, and guess what? They're very happy to be here. Yeah. Well, I just, I just read an interesting report. There's been an unprecedented exodus from healthcare in 2021. I think it's somewhere in the range of 300,000 healthcare providers, and that's a mix of doctors, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, and those sorts of things. But the vast majority of

that 300 plus thousand was amongst physicians, people leaving largely because they did not want to either be forced to have a vaccination or because of these just repressive laws that have been passed, as you said, censoring and fundamentally criminalizing physicians from disagreeing with the government on some of these things. I've said over and over, North Korea's got nothing on us out here in California. We are limiting what physicians can do and say, and it's really terrible. So where does Florida stand right now with, as you say, where does Florida stand right now in terms of vaccine mandates for anybody? Well, the COVID-19 vaccine mandates, it's a done deal.

Organizations either have to abide by Florida law or, you know, we have some repercussions. There was the issue with the Special Olympics several months ago where they pulled a bait and switch, to the best of my understanding, with people who had registered to participate in the Special Olympics in Florida. And then we're told that they didn't have to have a COVID-19 vaccine. And then we're told that they couldn't participate if they didn't have a COVID-19 vaccine. And then we're told that they couldn't, they couldn't participate if they didn't have the COVID-19 vaccine. And we, you know, we, we took that very seriously. A lot of families contacted us. I mean, it was really devastating for a lot of, a lot of athletes who'd been training and all of a sudden they now couldn't attend unless they submitted to a vaccine that, and some of these families, they don't, they purposely, you know, their kids are sensitive, they have sensitive systems, and they're concerned about the effects of introducing foreign materials into their body,

which is, they're perfectly within their right to feel that way. And so we went to the mattresses for them and the Special Olympics backed down. So, you know, Florida, the vaccines are available for people who want them. But this whole thing of shoving it down people's throats and pulling the rug from underneath them and not permitting any exemptions, that's not part of, that's not here. How does that work with the federal mandate for CMS, however? Because the mandate still exists, as far as I understand it, for any hospital or system that takes reimbursement from Medicare and Medicaid. The federal guideline is that those hospitals, I thought, have to have a vaccine mandate in place for their health care workers.

Is that not the case in Florida? Or have you found a workaround? It is true. Right, it is true. But in that federal mandate, they also have to accept religious and medical exemptions. So from my conversations with doctors, that seems to be the route that's been taken

for healthcare workers who don't want to, don't want to participate in that. Okay, that's great. One of the other things I really wanted to talk to you about is how it's working. I practiced in Florida for many, many years. I'm sorry I let my Florida medical license lapse. I was in Palm Beach County for many years practicing.

It now is the true safe haven. But we have lived through three years of unprecedented therapeutic nihilism with this pandemic. We have acted, doctors have acted, public health officials have acted, our leaders have acted as if there wasn't a real cadre of safe, effective, readily available treatments for COVID when you and I both know that was not the case. We had protocols put together very early on in this pandemic that were incredibly safe and effective. Right now, the first lawsuit I think was just getting pushed through in Wisconsin. A Supreme Court in Wisconsin has now allowed an amicus brief to be filed by the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons against a hospital looking into what is the legality or illegality of a hospital denying a patient to be able to get medications like ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine from a physician who wants to prescribe those things. Where are things in terms of CMS protocols

and hospital protocols in the state of Florida with regard to the ability for physicians to have that conversation with patients and make decisions that are free from interference from the government. You know, I've been thinking a little bit about that issue and it's a complicated issue. Someone actually, I was at a great event with the Brownstone institute over this past weekend in miami and i saw pictures oh cool brought that issue up and i and i started thinking about a little bit is i understand if your hospital wanting to have some control or protocols over how you would treat, how your patients are treated, who are in that hospital. But at the same time, it doesn't, also doesn't seem right or appropriate

for a doctor to be prohibited from using an FDA approved drug, which is in his or her clinical, in the interest of the patient, just because that patient's in the hospital. So I, you know, I think it's something that it's definitely something I need to think more about in terms of what's happening on the ground. I think it's a tough tension because a lot of, a lot of hospitals do have protocols. And from what I've heard from docs who are practicing in the community, it can be a mixed picture in terms of the type of response they receive. That being said, we've worked with the Agency for Healthcare Administration, which oversees hospitals,

and issued formal guidance to hospitals that they should respect whatever protocols doctors want to use for their patients. So we've said that, and patients or families who have problems can contact us if they, you know, if they run into an issue. So I haven't, I haven't heard, I certainly receive complaints, but I haven't received any complaints on this particular issue in a long time. So I think it's had some teeth and some effectiveness out issuing that guidance but it's it might my position is what has really always been if you know first if a doctor wants to use a medic i mean they went to medical school just like you they they they have a license just like you they're board certified if a doctor wants vacation like why do you have to get in that doctor's face and try and you know tie the doctor's arms and and

and make them not use the medication that that's that just doesn't make sense it's also harmful professionally it's just a dumb idea so let doctors practice medicine in the ways that they think are appropriate that's that's really been my position the the whole time since the beginning you know no one you know we i'm sorry go ahead drew you sound like you're going to jump i was going to say to to i was going to read something off twitter as people are watching and commenting obviously and uh share asked how are you able to stand up to the establishment while others are not which is sort of a you know what you and i were talking about earlier it's like what happened to us why can't we you know i i was thinking while you were talking i was thinking about the way somebody who disagreed with

you say dr uh latipo that group would come at you with these ad hominem horrific you know atrocious attacking negative if i disagreed with If you disagreed with them, let's say they think vaccine policy should be universal and all the way down to H2, you would disagree with them. You wouldn't attack them as human beings. It's such a weird... I've never seen...

When I get attacked by colleagues on Twitter, my immediate thing is to DM them and say, let's get on the phone. We have to restore collegiality in this profession because people that are allowing themselves to get into this weird, like I said, it used to be just, hey, I disagree. Your ideas are interesting, but they're wrong. Now it's you're a evil, bad, dumb, anti-vax, whatever, all these words that people are using that are all about who you are as a human being. And that has to stop. That must stop.

But the question the Twitter user is asking is, how did you stand up to so much when others couldn't? Well, it's actually something that I talk a lot about in my book. In fact, it was probably, not even probably, it was the reason, the real reason I wrote it. And I talk about public health, yes, but you know, I, I personally had a journey from, yeah, when I was a, when I was a little boy, happened to be sexually molested by a babysitter. And I,'t think it was a big deal as I grew up, but it turns out that the experience actually really instilled a lot of fear and fright in me and in my heart and around my heart. And I thought everything was fine and I didn't, I didn't, I, I, and I thought everything was fine and I didn't really come to realize how screwed up I was in terms of living in fear and not being able to emotionally connect with other

people until I accidentally, literally accidentally fell in love with my wife over the phone. And, uh, we were, we met and she was going to different cities, but we had a great time talking on the plane. So we stayed in touch and I fell in love with her over the phone. And when you fall in love, all your stuff, like all your problems, all your issues, they come up to the surface because that's how, you know, there's no more powerful light than love. And that started a journey that, uh, that she helped guide me through and supported me through. And eventually I worked with a guy named Christopher, Christopher Mayher, who's a former Navy SEAL. And he has very talented guy who used methods from chinese meridian theory and and all this stuff to

to get the fear through a lot of physical stuff is because it turns out that fear anxiety shame self-doubt agitation irritation it it's stored our bodies. It's literally in our muscles and our, in our tendons and all that. And I know it sounds nuts and I didn't even believe it was true until I worked with him, but basically through, uh, through a lot of physical manipulation, some of which were very painful. In fact, initially I got to get free of my fear and, and, and, and my shame and things like that that that I didn't even know I was holding on to. And that's why I'm able to do all that I've been able to do. And thanks to my wife and Christopher Mayer.

And that's why I'll keep doing what I've been doing. I know you've spoken about this. I know you've spoken about this. And again, it's one of the other areas in which I admire you so much. And I think we've really, in my humble opinion, went through a pandemic of that kind of childhood trauma as well, as well as multiple other adverse childhood experiences. And now we can add COVID to the adverse childhood experience and trauma that we've been perpetrating on children for quite some time. But this is my area of interest for the last 30 years is what I've been dealing with. If you have, I've always tell people, if you have bad enough drug addiction that you need to see me,

you had childhood trauma, typically, typically a trifecta of sexual, sexual abuse, physical abuse, neglect. Uh, but you and I should talk about this sometime once the pandemic is in the rear view mirror. Do you, are you familiar with Bessel van der Kolk's book the body keeps the score I've heard of the book I haven't read it uh but if what that author is saying is that is that your body what you're saying he's saying what you're saying yeah he's saying what you're saying yeah and just know no there is a you might be interested there is a world of of professionals working on the neurobiology of what you're describing and i when we i would love to introduce you to all those people down the road somewhere but it's something i've been fascinated by for quite some time and i can introduce you some of that but you you you continue to be a source of light on that

no thank you no thank you doctor i just want to say for listeners like i didn't believe any of this stuff i did not think any of this stuff like you know what i've described to you at all that that that that your your experiences could literally be stored in your in your muscles like literally in your muscles blocking your the ability of chi to flow through you and therefore blocking your access to all of your power and your talents and your spiritual connection to God. I didn't believe any of that, but going through it, it's definitely true. And I mean, I'm infinitely grateful that I was able to do that. Life is so much better now. And of course, I can do a lot more too.

But just being is just so much more enjoyable. Well, I truly appreciate you sharing that because it gives some real insight into what makes you such a compelling and effective leader uh and an individual um truly uh i will say speaking of childhood trauma by the way i mean of all of the uh horrible errors that were made during this debacle and that's a long list from which to choose perhaps the greatest was acting as if we were all at equivalent risk from code when we knew from the very, very beginning that children were at such a low risk of severe outcome from COVID as to be really indistinguishable from zero. Yet we exacted an unbelievable toll on them, everything from

masking to this made-up construct of social distancing and, you know, furthermore, the worst of it all, perhaps, was the school closures. Let's talk about that. You're undoubtedly aware of the tragic results we are now seeing of those school closures. of grades, the failure rates, the dropout rates, increases in drug addiction and depression, suicidal ideology, social fear, insomnia, and on and on. How does Florida so far, you guys did exactly what Sweden did and a few other bright spots around the globe and said, this is insanity, we're not doing it. And I am guessing that the state of Florida has not suffered from the same level of learning loss as the rest of the country, or certainly red, excuse me, blue areas of the country. Do you know how, have you looked at that data and seen

how Florida schools and school children are faring compared to the rest of the world? Yeah, I have. And, you know, Dr. Victor, I just want to punctuate something you said. I've seen people write like in the New York Times that we didn't know initially that the kids were low risk. And that is, it's either a lie or it's actually incorrect. Because I knew in March of 2020, when I was working in the hospital at UCLA, and I looked at the data from Wuhan with my residents, that it was very clearly, I mean, the kids were basically totally unaffected in terms of any severe illness. So it was known from the beginning. I mean, people who want to pretend that, well, we didn't know, we didn't know. That's like, there's a word for that.

And it starts with B. That's correct. And so, yeah, so we've looked and you're absolutely right. So overall, Florida obviously allowed kids to have more access to schools and learning losses in math and English were less, much less in Florida. And interestingly, actually, we had to look more at the, some of our Hispanic and black students actually did essentially either had in some areas had no loss at all where it had some improvements during the pandemic. So I think it was still hard for kids because in some counties in, in, in Florida, there was more subscription to the lockdown,

keep them out of school model from Dr. Fauci and Dr. Walensky. But by and large, the students in Florida definitely did better academically. And there's also a Harvard study that showed it from their education, their Institute for Education Policy or Harvard study that showed it from their education, their Institute for Education Policy or something like that. So by and large, the kids here did better. And that definitely, that definitely leaks out also into mental health and emotional well-being. Those numbers. Oh, for sure. For sure. Right. Totally. Yeah. And, but of course there must've been skyrocketing teacher deaths and hospitalizations there must have been terrible pandemonium amongst the teaching population what what how's that possible oh my gosh that uh well you just mentioned harvard let's talk

about harvard for a minute here. Harvard is your alma mater times two. You've got your medical degree from there as well as your PhD. I don't have a PhD or a master's in public health, but I did do postgraduate training in public health, most of it at the Harvard School of Public Health and the Kennedy School of Government. I'm a graduate of the National Preparedness Leadership Initiative from Harvard. And I am now also, I'm proud to say, persona non grata at Harvard. They don't support anything that I have said during this pandemic. When they know better, what the heck has happened to our schools of public health uh you heard in

my little intro you know is the mandate of public health and i stand by this to consider the outcome of any particular mitigation scheme on the entire population not just a single virus or a single group of people and when we talk about, we're not just talking about physical health, it's spiritual health, psychological health, financial health, all of those things. We are obligated in public health to consider what will the impact be on everyone from a lockdown, from social distancing, from masking,

from not allowing people to attend weddings and funerals and graduations and all of these things. Yet our public health officials largely abandoned us. The things that I was trained to believe, all of a sudden, somehow I was led to believe I was a heretic for saying them. In your mind, you have a PhD in this. What happened to our public health schools and our public health officials? Hypnosis. In my book, Transcend Fear,

a chapter dedicated to that. So people should understand this is not a new concept. There is something in public health called health impact assessment. And that's exactly what you just described that apparently fell out of the heads of our colleagues and our health officials. You learn that in the schools of public health. And that's exactly what it is, right? You look at an intervention,

you look at its intended consequences and you look at its unintended consequences. Right. Like that's health impact assessment. But, you know, as you know, as we all know, we did like something disgusting, which was just throw that out and only look at COVID and, oh, what are the COVID numbers doing? And here the kids there are drowning in the fear of the adults around them and how their lives have been

disrupted and family businesses are going out of business and people are feeling despair, but we're looking at the numbers. So, you know, that's what we're doing. Right, and they closed the hospitals and doctor's offices. So no one's getting their screening colonoscopy, their mammogram, their skin cancer. No one's getting follow-up for diabetes and heart disease. Kids are missing, you know missing eye exams and hearing exams. It was as if COVID is the only thing we can be concerned about.

And it was the most bizarre thing. Then you take, you know, to your point that we always knew, and I maintain that we knew from the very beginning that children were at an incredibly low risk, essentially zero risk. We also knew from the beginning that masks don't stop the spread of respiratory viruses,

that we've known it for decades, yet all of a sudden, all of our colleagues, and I would run into them at parties and say, for the love of God, I sat next to you in virology class. You know, this mask doesn't you in virology class. You know, this mask doesn't do anything to stop the spread. You know, people on the mainstream media started talking about social distancing. And the next thing you know, my internal medicine colleagues are removing every other chair in their waiting rooms. Like you kidding? This sort of stuff. It was, in the words of

Matthias Desmet calls it the, what's his term? Mass formation psychosis. Thank you. It was. That's what it was. It's something.

Dr. Lebedo used the word hypnosis and it's weird that we were hypnotized by the chinese communist party policy that's the weirdest little wrinkle on this that's where it all started like some dude went to china was hypnotized into believing this policy invented by a bunch of bureaucrats not doctors was the right way to go right and it gets better because now these same people that were enamored with oh they locked down so well you know they really know how to do it in the beginning now but now it's like oh those those that chinese government is unethical i can't believe they're doing i mean this is the same thing that constituted their wet dreams in the beginning of the pandemic. Exactly. Exactly. No, you are so right. It's true. It's true.

It's hysterical. It was catnip early on and all of a sudden. So, you know, where in your mind does this go with regard to accountability? We now, you know, Anthony Fauci just underwent a seven-hour deposition and testified. It was very telling, by the way, if you read some of it. I think he said, I don't recall 174 times in the, you know, remarkable what he doesn't remember. He should, you know, get lined up for a cognitive exam. He's very smart. Yeah, exactly. I'm a true believer that there is no healing without accountability and without contrition. And there's certainly never the idea of amnesty that some people have suggested, I think is not acceptable. We need accountability.

Talk about where you stand on that. And from your purview, you have a sort of a rare view at this from where you sit as Surgeon General in Florida. Where do you think this is going with regard to ultimate accountability at the federal level, at the pharmaceutical level, at the pharmaceutical level, those sorts of things. And not just accountability, but reassessment and making sure we don't do this again, or some sort of curtailment of, as we said at the very beginning, public health authorities.

I think that I would say two things. The first thing is, I think that ultimately, what you'd really want is for the people like just regular folks to fully come to terms with what actually happened. The fact that they were lied to, the fact that they were lied to the fact that they were manipulated yeah the fact that they were treated inhumanely right oh you can't you can't your your your husband or wife or mom or dad is dying but you don't get to be with them right right you can't be with them this is a i think that i think that i think really taking that in and it hasn't happened yet enough and we're not there yet. We're still, we're still, I think as a population, we are still quite very vulnerable. Many of us to, to being taken up another fear riding roller coaster. But until that happens, I don't think we can, you know, we can really be bulletproof to the types of tactics that were used. In the meantime, as part of the journey, I think it's about continuing to seek truth, continuing to have conversations like this. And, you know, sometimes

I mentioned, I mentioned it this weekend and it really is true. You think about where we were two and a half years ago, right? And you look now, right? People that like you, Dr. Victory, who were very, who were, you know, wise from the beginning and were vocal from the beginning, it was incredibly lonely. There were very few people on that page. And now I would say that we have at least half of the Americans. I mean, in Florida, Governor DeSantis won 60% of the vote, won Democratic counties. I think we have the people now in terms of being on the right, you know, being on a, on the, on the right page, on a page that is sensible in terms of public health. And, but in the things we're doing, I think are helping us get to that point as a population that we really need to get to, to be bulletproof to these types of, these types of strategies. And I think we need to keep doing it and we're going to be doing more in Florida and you, everyone's going to be hearingproof to these types of strategies. And I think we need to keep doing it.

And we're going to be doing more in Florida. And everyone's going to be hearing about that. We're definitely not done. We're not resting on anything in Florida. I think, Kelly, this is sort of a good place to kind of roll towards the end. Where's your office? I want to come see you and shake your hand. How does one do that?

You come to Tahassee and i my family live in the tampa area and i've got an apartment up here so i go back and forth but uh yeah you come on to tallahassee or if you're in the tampa area yeah let me know all right well i i i can't tell you how to do you how much I appreciate you taking time. I know you have been just insanely busy during all of this. And I know you were just at that event in Brownstone with all of truly great thought leaders, the people who I have to say, you're correct. It was very, very lonely at the beginning. And were it not for people like Peter McCullough and Harvey Reich and Paul Alexander and people who have talked me in off the ledge on more than one occasion,

I wouldn't still be doing this. But your leadership has been monumental. It's critical, not only, honestly, to the state of Florida. You are a national hero in this. And I really mean that. And I appreciate you having the guts to speak out. In the words of John Milton, virtue untested is no virtue at all. It's at personal risk. And I appreciate you taking it. So anything you want to close out, anything we didn't cover that you feel like we should have gotten out there for people to hear? No, it's all good. I think it's really, it's been, it's been a real pleasure. I mean, I, I, I see, I know we're on that same listserv too, Dr. Victory.

So I see your messages sometimes and, and yeah, it's, it's a, and I know you're in, no, don't tell me you're not, I know you're, you were South of us, like either in irvine or san diego right yeah i yeah i yes i'm down in the desert i'm down in today and i i toggle back and forth between northern colorado and southern california so i'm down in in palm the palm springs area right now okay the palm springs area well i you know i'd see you and see on on on tv talking covet you know from when i was back in california so anyway it's been it's been a pleasure dr drew i really appreciate you being saying the things that people you know i was like i've been very surprised about some of the things you said oh boy oh we're talking about yeah well it's just Yeah. Well, it's just, I'm not saying.

Don't be afraid. No, no. I'm just, I'm not saying I understand everything. Why? I've just got a ton of questions. And it's very confusing why those questions are somehow sacrilegious or problematic. It's just, you know, once I really have some clarity, then great. Maybe I'll be clear you should be vaccinating three-year-olds. I don't know. I, that's the way medicine works.

It's a moving target. You learn as you, it changes all the time. But in the meantime, my eyes have been, you know, scales have fallen from my eyes on a many different issues that I did not know that we had in our profession it it's uh many different things i've learned about and kelly is exposed to me to many different uh guests here that have helped me sort of make further sense of things uh well and that's what this platform as you say this platform has been great because it has brought back uh the robust vigorous debate that was previously the cornerstone of medicine. It's what we really all trained on, all of us trained in that, and the fact that that hasn't been allowed during this pandemic was a big part of the problem.

So I appreciate the platform and I appreciate you sharing it with me. Yeah, I think what you are referencing is my appearances. I'm on KUSI in San Diego frequently. Oh, okay. That's my value. Yeah, that's where you've seen me a lot. I'm their go-to COVID person. Yeah, yeah.

And as it pertains to our platform here, I mean, I don't agree with everything our guests have said, but I found their ideas interesting, and they've made me think, and that's great. And some of the things have enlightened me. Social distancing, talking to Paula Alexander about where that came from, that was a mind-blowing to me. And so, Kelly, you've always said it. You've been right there talking

about it being a total fiction, and he was there when it was invented, when the fiction was invented. So, in any event, I'll let you guys go. It's all Kelly. This is all Kelly's doing here. Dr. Labdepot, we appreciate it. And we're going to Tampa, Drew.

I want to go see K.A. She loves our team. Well, that's what I just said. I want to make an effort to go shake his hand. Come on down. We will. My wife's over. Yeah.

All right. I'm serious about this. It's a date. We'll figure it out. It's a date. All right, you guys. We have coming up next week, Kelly, do you know who's next week with you? Yes, Dr. David Weissman.

Dr. David Weissman, yes. Pharmacologist. Should be a great, great conversation. He's charming and really entertaining, and will share gobs of great, uh, great data. And then after that, we have Dr. Teresa Long, uh, Lieutenant Colonel Teresa Long on the 21st, the following Wednesday, she is one of the three military quote whistleblowers. And it was posting her sworn testimony in front of Congress that got me permanently banned from Twitter. So we are sort of joined at the hip as a result. So we've got some great folks coming up.

And then, yeah, even into January, I think we've got people into January, February. I know Dr. Cole's coming back. Cole's coming back, yeah. But the next two weeks, we've got Dr. David Weissman next week and then Lieutenant Colonel Teresa Long the following Wednesday. Fabulous. Yeah. And I was going to make some quip about you being kicked off because of what she – Oh, I know what I was going to say, which was, Caleb, prepare a call to YouTube once these two get together.

Make sure that we don't suffer the same fate. There'll be smoke coming from your PC. Drew's going to have a little one-on-one-o with the debunker. Yeah, tomorrow. I feel like we should, I at least should take on people that are critical of some of the people we have on here or the conversation we're having. So we're having somebody. Or how you don't push back enough or whatever.

Yeah, so some guy was going off on Twitter. I said, come in, let's talk. At least he's going to. And a few other sort of the notables were retweeting and amplifying his message. So I thought, let's be a good guy to get in here. And then Dr. Ram Yogendra, our old buddy from COVIDlonghaulers.com, and Bruce Patterson are coming next Thursday. All right. That's a loaded slate coming up.

Yeah, we're busy. And Dr. Victory, we'll see you next week. And the rest of you, we will see you tomorrow. Thank you, Kelly. We are going to be in early tomorrow. Tomorrow is 2 o'clock with the debunker, so it should be interesting. Those of you on Restream, please. And also those of you over on the Rumble Rants, you guys could be helpful.

All the haters can hate on you tomorrow. We will see you then. I can't wait. Tomorrow at 2 o'clock. See you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only.

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