Ask Dr. Drew - Charlie Kirk Assassination: 24 Hours Later, What We Know About The Utah Valley University Shooting w/ Salty Cracker, Free Speech Activist Douglass Mackey & Paul Mauro – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 531

Episode Date: September 14, 2025

Charlie Kirk was assassinated on September 10 during an outdoor event at Utah Valley University. The FBI is still hunting for the shooter. Dr. Drew discusses Kirk’s legacy, martyrdom, and the latest breaking news on the investigation with special guests including Salty Cracker, free speech activist Douglass Mackey, and experts on law enforcement and counterterrorism. Due to breaking news, today’s topics and guests changed as we received updates on the manhunt for Charlie’s killer. 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/sponsors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • VSHREDMD – Formulated by Dr. Drew: The Science of Cellular Health + World-Class Training Programs, Premium Content, and 1-1 Training with Certified V Shred Coaches! More at https://drdrew.com/vshredmd • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and Susan Pinsky (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/firstladyoflov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠e⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Of course, we're still talking about the aftermath of the Charlie Kirk assassination. Salty Cracker agreed to come back and give us his thoughts. He's here just after having been here last week or a couple days ago. He can be found on Rumble, Saltie Cracker, and also on X, Salty Cracker 9. Paul Morrow is a Fox contributor and attorney. He was a longtime detective at the New York City Police Department. And he worked in the U.S. Congress, the National Counterterrorism Center. and he has some ideas about what might be going down with the perpetrator.

And we also are going to be speaking with Douglas Mac. He is a free speech activist, social media influencer, who posted under the name Ricky Vaughn in March 2023, he was convicted of inspiring to deprive citizens of their right to vote because of a goof tweet from something like five years earlier. We'll get to all of it after this. Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian. and bizarre.

The psychopaths start this right. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for a second. Where the hell you think I learned that?

I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. But just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time, educate adolescents, and to prevent and to treat. You have trouble.

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To me, it suggests that none of it's working. When I prescribe a medication, I prescribe that medicine because I expect that to work. That is exactly what I've done with these products. And I want you to go to Dr. Drew.com slash v shred MD for 10% off. Again, that is Dr. Drew.com slash v shred MD. Let's get right to it with Salty Cracker. Follow on X, Salty Cracker 9 and make sure to check out his Rumble show. Salty, welcome back.

I appreciate you spending a little time with us. and I just wanted to get your thoughts and the aftermath of all this craziness. Yeah, you know, it's sad to have to come back with what's happening right now. It's been a very surreal last 48 hours. I mean 48 hours. It's just happened like 24 hours ago.

And the one-two punch of it happening and then watching the reactions from all of this come down. You're watching a whole bunch of ghouls out there celebrating this while the mainstream media press is out there saying you know Charlie Kirk deserved it like this is a wild time to be alive so what do we do with that I actually have outrage fatigue at looking at that and going what what is wrong with people this guy's a young man with a young family they're wishing harm on all these people why what and I've actually asked a lot of people

And some people showed me some memes of him saying something like transgender individuals shouldn't have rights. I don't remember him saying anything like that. Do you? You know, Charlie Kirk put out probably tens of thousands of hours worth of content. And I'm not going to say that I've seen at all. But I've seen a lot of it. And what I assume is happening here is that they are contorting and pretzelizing stuff that he said. He had deep thoughts on the Civil Rights Act, on transgender people.

And it's very easy to take complicated, nuanced thoughts on those things, and then turn them into, well, Charlie Kirk hates gay people. So it's fine that he was shot in his head in front of everybody. And I think that's what's happening right now. Right. So I literally want to understand this. So how did this happen to people? I mean, it's so nutty cuckoo. Is it that they were so brainwashed by the media that they were sort of set up for this?

I mean, think about it this way. Corolla was talking about this on his podcast. If Hitler, if you really believe that Trump is Hitler, well, then any good patriot should go do something about that. And not only towards him, but anybody that helps him, right? I mean, if you really, if the media has caused people to actually believe that, and then you also add to that the fact that we have coached up transgender individuals to believe that anyone who questions anything about anything in regards to their life is threatening their what do they call it threatening my existence you're threatening my

existence well if you're if you're threatening somebody existence well then you've got to kill that person because they're threatening your existence i mean it all these rhetorical circumstances and let's talk about, you know, these brainwashing techniques are setting up violence. A lot of people saw this coming, Dr. Drew. You don't have eight plus years of painting a political movement as Nazis and fascists. You can go see all these people right now, by the way. The Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of the world, the Bernie Sanders of the world,

all of these left-wing nut jobs who've been calling Charlie, Kirk and anybody who helps Donald Trump, anybody who associates with Donald Trump, they're fascist Nazis. You're clearly trying to get a group of left-wing, unhinged mentally challenged goofballs to think that they're in the position of the correct side of history. They've got morality behind because we're stopping Hitler. We're stopping the Nazi regime. When in reality, everything that I saw Charlie Kirk talk about was core tenants from the Bible. This is not flaming, right-wing, radicalizing, crazy stuff that Charlie Kirk was saying on these college campuses. He was saying, hey, go out there and get married.

Find somebody that compliments you, find somebody that supports you, makes you a better person, have kids with that person, go to work. That's all he was saying. And these people out there are saying, that dude deserves. to get what he got. This is wild. That's an attack on Christianity at this point. But it's because they have been brainwashed. They've been led to believe he is not what you were saying he is. And they would say something's wrong with you for not understanding he's filled with hate. Yeah, no, I would imagine the people filled with hate are the ones celebrating on a man being assassinated in front of everybody. These ghouls and these goofballs over there are the most

angriest people on the world, and they hide behind this iconography of clouds and rainbows and pastel logos and empty stupid platitudes, written in comic sands about the love Trumps, they love all, love, love, love. Meanwhile, they're the angriest people on the world. They are celebrating openly all across social media. And it's not hard to find, by the way, because everybody's out there right now, CNN, MSNBC, all these assholes on these talking head networks are all saying, well, it's a both sides of problem. It's a both sides of problem. And then they bring up Nancy Pelosi's

husband or the Minnesota state reps and sit there going, well, where were the people celebrating that? Where are the people Paul Pelosi thing is a big joke, by the way, because that dude was that whole situation is real stupid. But those two people being murdered in Minnesota,

nobody was making, you can't find pages and pages of pages of people celebrating that. But this, Charlie Kirk, No, it's like an orgy of demon behavior right now. Is it a reaction to the fact that people see him as being sort of glorified and martyed? And so they have to react to that now too, because if you have positive feelings about Charlie Kirk, oh, there it is, you're a Nazi. Charlie Kirk was a strike at their power base that they weren't expected.

Charlie Kirk, I can't think of anybody right now. Who else was able to get thousands and thousands and thousands of people to college campuses to cheer them? He's got young people. He's got 20-year-olds wearing MAGA hats in public for everybody to see. They're cheering for Charlie Kirk. He's getting millions and millions of views per clip on all of his videos. And he's letting people of a very young generation know it's okay. You don't have to be a lefty.

You don't have to be a Bernie bro. You don't have to be a lefty. It's okay. And that shocks the system because they thought they had those young kids locked down. They thought they had them a monopoly of thought on college campuses. Charlie Kirk threatens that. And by threatening that, it impacts their power base. And so they're celebrating Charlie Kirk being dead because they feel that they're going to be now more secure in their position of their left-wing ideology perpetrating and permeating on these college campuses.

Well, Caleb, put that Whitney Cummings tweet back up there. I thought she nailed it. I saw it this morning. She essentially said, those of you were celebrating, congratulations, you're the Taliban. And I thought, yeah, that gets it. That captures it. There it is. If you were happy as someone was publicly executed, if you are happy someone was publicly executed,

they don't share your beliefs. Congrats, you're the Taliban. There it is. Congrats. Yeah, right in everybody's face. And to watch... And that's the part that they don't get, is that they would be the prison guards in 1939.

They are the Taliban. And this is where up is down and down is up. It's so bizarre. Yeah, well, these are severely deranged individuals. They're horribly confused. They're mutilating themselves. They're committing massive amounts of self-harm on themselves. They're rampant drug users.

These people are mentally insane. But they think that they're the good people. Again, because you've got to... them painted the other side as Nazis. Right. And so, and so let's, let's assume that they're victims. Let's try to, let's try to kind of tone it down a little bit. Not that I don't admire your, your clown world assessment. But, but, but let's say they're just victims of the media and their, and their education

and the brainwashing and all this stuff that has gone on for a long, long time. And when I get some of these guys to calm down and say, you know, well, now you get them to kind of be more reasonable. Where they usually will go is, well, it's all about Trump. It's really Trump. He's the man. He's the problem. He started all this.

He's in fomenting hatred. And I thought, and I usually will say something like, okay, why don't I react like that to him? I may not agree with him. I may think some of the things are kind of obnoxious, he says. I don't freak out. What makes people totally freak out about him? We live in a broken society.

I imagine a lot of this has, this isn't something that happened last week. You're watching this kind of build up, this kind of rise. We've got a culture and a society that has deviated from some real core tenets. I'm not saying that you need to go out and buy a Bible, but I mean, come on, everybody understand. I remember you and Adam talking about this 20 years

ago on Love Line. You've got a gigantic problem with the nuclear family being dismantled. It has been associated with whiteness as a way to keep black communities from engaging in the nuclear family. And by attacking

that and destroying that, you are guaranteeing generations of just abused and traumatized. boys and girls, and they are going to be looking for anything, that gang mentality. They come from busted families, and they're all messed up themselves, and they are looking for anybody that will give them attention that they seek. And they latch on to the blue skies of the world or the reddits of the world where all

these other weirdos are hanging out, and then they self-reinforce each other, and they won't listen to anybody else. Everybody else is a Nazi, and what that does is it drives them deeper into the cycle. to now where they're openly celebrating Charlie Kirk. And listen, if Donald Trump died, these savages and these monsters wouldn't be satiated. They've got lists of people on Blue Sky right now that they're like, oh, right, Ben Shapiro's next. Joe Rogan's next. Joe Rogan was a Bernie bro three minutes ago, you morons.

These people are insane. They'll never be satiated. How much is this just the extremes on both sides? You know what I mean? The excesses are where people get into Trump. And let's even posit that maybe Charlie said some things that were excessive, even though he came from a, I met the guy who seemed like a great guy and he loved his family and what, you know, and by the way, he left out another piece that Adam and I used to say was family and education. We've had both those things fucked up. So, yeah. So, well done, everybody. But, but, what was I saying? That the excesses are really, those are the ones that you were talking about. And the, the, that the excesses are really, those are the ones that you were talking about. And the, that. the 70% in the middle wants to just get along. How do we get them to stand up and defend themselves

and to engage in some free speech and to get everybody else to shut the F up? How do we get the middle to assert itself? Well, that's a million dollar question, Dr. Drew. You know, I don't know. I agree with you that there are, it's the extremes out there. The problem that I have with that, though, is that we're letting a group of people say that the extreme on the right is core tenets of Christianity.

Like, I got a huge problem with that. Listen, we need to get back to it. Wait, what? The left-hand side and the mainstream media press are saying that the right extreme are the core tenets of Christianity. They got a huge problem with the Bible. And instead of saying, well, listen, I don't agree with the Bible. so I will, I will disassociate with the church or other than, no, no, no, they're cheering on, they're idolizing the Catholic Church massacres that have been happening.

Like, you've just had two mass shootings at two Catholic events, specifically targeting kids. And now you've got another Christian being shot in front of everybody over here. And this seems like a continuing, this seems like maybe something that we should acknowledge. And the establishment, the major media press, they don't want to acknowledge them. They want to, they're busy painting Charlie Kirk as a far right person. He's not far right. That's not far right. Yeah.

No, I know. And so whatever you think is creating that circumstance of the attack on Christianity, the one thing I see is, again, I try to sit in a moderate position, is that morality, any moral discourse and any conversation about the truth means you're consorting with the devil. and I know of no I mean if you want to say that or that's the devil at work okay call it what you will

it's certainly something sinister happening that would have it that the truth is dangerous and means you are a you must be destroyed and worse yet if you start talking about morality well now we really have a problem and Charlie seemed to have both

And they're celebrating, murdering that dude in front of everybody. This is a huge problem. It's a huge problem in this country. We have got to get back to, there's so many issues with this that are going on. I don't think our society in general is structured in a very sane way. Our education system, like it has been obliterated by every metric. The family units, the standards, just common decency. everything seems to be under assault and attack.

Yeah, real basic stuff that they used to put in Saturday morning cartoons has been thrown out the window. And it's hard for me to think that that's on accident. It just seems like it's happening at every single level. Okay. So that was going to be my next question. So I'm calling this thing sinister, what is sinister force, some sinister force.

And people that have a religious orientation will go, yeah, it's the devil, no problem. it's Lucifer at work okay it's something what do you think it is I think that there is a flaw in humanity I think that we're imperfect beings and when you have tens and tens and tens hundreds of millions of us concentrated in in areas you can you can move them around and you can get them to do stuff that will benefit you and the people that are interested in doing stuff like that they're not good people and so they're not going to move you to benefit the greater good of humanity that they're going to move you in ways that these weirdos get off on and and you're seeing

this you know we've got rampant drug issues in this this country we've got every every decent thing in this country seems to be under assault and then we're fed all the stuff that's got real bad outcomes go out there and be promiscuous don't don't form relationships have sex with everybody have sex with anything go out there and do all the drugs that you want to do you don't have to have self-control you don't have to have impulse control you don't have to be accountable we'll paint to fund the cops in the middle of the street so it's okay if they burn and and if that's happening on accident i would be shocked i think that there are just evil people in this world i think they're broken soulless individuals and they get off on taking regular humans and

making us miserable. I think they feed off of, I think they feed off of hate. So Roseanne, I talked to you yesterday, and she said almost the same thing, though, her construct was a little different. She said, number one, it's media. And number two, it's them, which were, but she had trouble identifying, which was sort of a moneyed interest above everybody else, who just were interested in more money. I don't know. I mean, I don't know. It, it's certainly follows an ideological framework that we've seen in the past, right? I mean, this is stuff that I looked up this morning, how did Nazis justify, what did I look up on, somebody on Grock, I asked like, how did Nazis, oh, how did they rationalize

violence against their, against their opponents? And all the exact same things that are happening today, not on the right, on the left, are what, are what the Nazis used. And guess what? Mao used the same thing. Stalin used the same thing. They all use this same kind of technique. At the core, it's dehumanizing other people, right? It's dehumanizing everybody else, and it's creating fear and outrage, and then promulgating it in the press. That's the sort of core process.

And it makes me wonder if this is just something that happens. You said, you know, we're flawed beings. Is this something that just happens in the historical sweep once in a while? Something about, you know, how care personalities change, you know, with different circumstances and family systems. I don't know. I can't make, I cannot figure it out. It happened in 1790 in France and they still celebrated even though that was a terrible catastrophe. Yeah, I just, I think that there's ebbs and flows in humanity and it's, it's that constant good versus evil. I think there's a, was it, 20% of the population, they're, their, their sociopaths and then a smaller percentage are psychopaths. I

think that there are just busted individuals out there and over time they start to um meld together like they they start kind of getting pooled together as they work their way through the system because the system's always changing what technology and and how humans operate and then i i think that people then recognize when they get to a critical mass and then the cycle starts itself over again. They go back into the shadows then work their way back through the system

and I think this is something that we've seen all through human history on every continent. So that's a really fascinating theory to me which is that it's sort of critical mass of people who can't empathize, people who are only concerned about themselves

and use other people to get ins to a means. It means what ends rather. Yeah, I look at where we're at today and we were nowhere near this 20 years ago. I mean, you have talk shows and you have Bill Nye and they're saying, go get an abortion. Do have whatever, do whatever you want, bang whatever you want. And then if you get pregnant, that's like, go have an abortion. Something that was kind of stigmatized and there was shame.

So you kind of kept that kind of on the down low. And now they're making abortion cakes. They're wearing abortion. Here's my 24th abortion. They're making social media about this. Hey, 24 hours. Here's what I'm having breakfast before I go kill a baby. We are, we're approaching something that isn't great for humanity.

And I think to a certain extent, more and more normies need to see what's going on. A few years ago, you arrested a dude over a meme. You guys wanted to ruin a guy's life over a meme. Demanded that he'd go to jail over a meme. And now you guys are shooting people in the neck in front of everybody. And Normies need to understand. We were telling everybody that this was what was going to happen when they arrested Douglas Mac years ago. We said this is going to have a bad trend.

This doesn't turn out well when you start arresting one. Both sides were sharing the same meme but with different characters on it with the same exact thing. But you only wanted one dude arrest. You only wanted one side arrested. You give that political power to those people and they'll start killing people. And it didn't even take that long. It was under 10 years. And so given that this is something that waxes and wanes through history, how does it get pushed down?

How does it get pushed away? I mean, back to 1790 France, it took a Napoleon. And is that who we have in the White House? That sort of figure that might suppress this thing, even though, you know, people accuse him of all kinds of things, his history would suggest that that's what's necessary. A prince. A Machiavelli argued the same thing.

His whole thing on the prince was so we could get back to a republic. So he had the idea of the strong prince that it's needed in certain circumstance, so a republic could be reestablished. Yeah, I hope not, man. I hope to, I hope that

people, if anything comes out of this situation, this horrible atrocious situation is that people realize that you know because there's a lot of normies out there they're like oh I just I just want to

I don't want to get in politics is stupid politics you're not escaping it it's going to have an impact on you and I'm not saying that you need to go get heavily involved and run for mayor or anything but you better understand the trajectory of things and waiting for somebody's

not something that I'm really interested in doing I'm hoping that people start just kind of understanding that the change that we need needs to happen from us and we got to start doing it we got to start being better husbands and better wives and better fathers better dads and we need to take culture music and streaming and art and all of this and reorient it to upholding and promoting key aspects that have good outcomes.

Now, this is something that we used to have. You used to teach people, you know, work hard, go out there, be accountable, be strong, build your wealth up. Well, that's all shit on right now. These people are attacking these things

and they're doing it through. They're, their aberrations that they've created with stuff that they didn't build like Marvel movies and other cultural artifacts that they've destroyed, jamming into their,

bad culture points. And we got to take it back. We got to say it's, it's, you have to, you have to raise your children. You have to have kids out there. You have to be a dad. You have to be a mom. You have to raise them. Don't send them all day to the, to the state to raise because then they're going to,

they're going to take your kid over and turn your kid against you. I'm not saying you got to homeschool your kids. I'm saying you got to be active in, in your kids. It's, we got to take culture back. The new Mitsubishi Outlander brings out another side. of you. Your regular side listens to classical music. Your adventurous side rocks out with the dynamic sound Yamaha. Regular U owns a library card.

Adventurist U owns the road with super all-wheel control. Regular side, alone time. Adventureous side journeys together with third row seating. The new outlander. Bring out your adventurous side. Mitsubishi Motors. Drive your ambition. Yeah, and you know, I like the construct, which is, look, just look at assess things pragmatically what results in good

outcome. And thank God we have this system that our founding fathers put together. It is so resilient. It's so resilient. It can recover from stuff like this. It can absorb all this. And we have our state system. We have so many things that, you know, even though people's understanding of our government has become severely adulterated. I remember if I mentioned to you the other day, I'm sorry, in addition to attacks on free speech, you know, which is the First Amendment, really, you're going to undo the First Amendment. Okay. New York Times

put out an article. The first free speech is out of control. Oh, okay, New York Times. I think, there it is. The First Amendment is out of control. I think you should be with, I'll tell you what, I'll get in power and I'll stop you, New York Times, from spewing your bullshit. Do you think that it's out of control? Anyway,

but this notion that rights are something provided to you by the state. Oh, boy. When I started hearing that, I was thought, oh, my God. It's so backwards. Social ill is done in the name of good. Governments normally perpetrate those ills.

Our government is structured in such a way as to protect us from the government in such a way as to protect rights that we are endowed with. How do they not get that part? It's in the opening sentences. Tim Kane just said it the other day. He was a congress. And Tim Caine goes, can you believe these idiots? They think that rights come from God. Rights don't come from God.

Rights don't come from the state. So they're going, holy balls. Holy balls, you're just to say that out. I know you're a filthy comedy, but you're not supposed to say that out loud. And that's where they're at at this point. Just open them. The mask is gone. That's what I was referring to, actually.

It was his comment. I forgot it was him. But it was now that you mentioned it was him. But that is, let's, we are endowed in the opening statement. They state by our creator. You can understand that. It's the way I have to coach people up about higher power. Understand by our creator in any way you want.

The great magnet, the hologram, I don't care. You were endowed by the creator. We as humans are created with certain inalienable rights. Happiness, freedom, property. That's it. That's it. And then everything around that needs to be to protect that from excesses of the institutions we put together to get along together.

And it's, it's, it's, you were a teacher at first, right? Weren't you a teacher? Yeah. Yeah. What, and how long ago was that? 15 years ago. And things I'm sure are worse now, right? Than, then.

How do we get, how does that come back? Well, parents need to understand what's happening. parents don't know what's happening in the schools the the um i you have this idea of what's happening in the schools you're starting to see it now but parents are like oh i send my kid to school and there's all these movies and tlc shows about how strong teachers are how they love the kids and they spend all their money buying the kids that meanwhile teachers are just like anybody else they're going to work it's a job for them most in most 99.9% of the teachers and um you're going to have people who are just shitty at it and they suck.

And the school is self-reinforcing and make sure that nobody knows that, by the way. They can't get rid of the bad at apples and it's just a rot all the way down to the core. And so people need to understand that what's on television and how teachers are portrayed in movies is that what's happening in the classroom. And they'll demand change. Well, you're seeing that. Conservatives are already doing. The conservatives are like, holy crap, what are you guys doing? These kids, they're exiting high school and they can't.

read, right, or soul for X, but they know 84 different sexual positions. And it's like, what the fuck is going on in here? And then they put on a list. Re. And. Our rees are kind of off today. The rees are off. I'm looking for the rees on the restrain.

Yeah, people are just, I mean, it's just a tough 24 hours right now. It's like no one wants to think or say anything funny. It's like everyone's really kind of muted and feeling really bad. Well, it's not a funny time. Yeah, and it's really hard to break people out. We even, I mean, we had Roseanne on, Roseanne yesterday, and it's like I may have giggled one time because everybody's hearts are so heavy right now.

Well, and I'm trying to stay in sort of understanding and solution mode. This is an opportunity to kind of be reflective, right? And there's a lot of Rees now coming up on the stream. Thank you guys. Okay, thank you. And caps, please. Okay. things like what we're talking about, making sense of the historical sweep of these things,

trying to reestablish the truth and maybe some moral discourse and the health of the family and get back to basics. How do we, is there a way to get the people that have been attacking that to come back, to spring back, to understand, I mean, let's put it, let me ask this. Because I'm a moderate, I don't see. I'm a little blinded to this. What do we do with the rhetoric that the left feels is so hateful? They seem to be focused, hyper-focused on things that,

I'm not even sure what it is they're seeing. But anybody that, I see mostly on the right people saying, transgender individuals, leave me alone, do whatever they want. I'm not cool about mutilating children, so I want some action there maybe because we've got to protect kids. but in terms of being transgender, you be you, enjoy your life, I'm about freedom.

Am I missing it? Am I not seeing something that is more inflammatory? The problem is that you're not insane. The people that are celebrating Charlie Kirk being murdered, by you saying something really, real milk tells, hey, let's not mutilate small children. They're revved up.

They're absolutely. wrapped up and they're saying, well, that is an assault on me. You are trying to murder me. You're trying to get rid of my existence. So it's okay if we silence you. It's okay if we throw you in jail. And it's okay if we shoot you in the head. Because your rhetoric is extreme. We shouldn't be trying to wrap how we have political discourse in this country by people who are that mentally deranged. If you have a political disagreement with somebody, it's not okay. to shoot them. But that's not a far right talking point.

Right. But I don't know. So you're suggesting just mockery. It's the only option. Shame and mockery. That's what Adam says. That's what Carolla says.

I utilize shame and mockery because they utilize the opposite. They'll take, they'll take a mechanical engineer and they'll dress them up in a white lab coat and tell everybody that he's an authoritative source on vaccines. And so these people that are all engaging from their position, they've got the air to the authority thing going on. They've got the Milgram thing going on in their head. And they're looking for PhDs on the wall.

So the opposite in my brain to that is, well, we're just make fun of you. and we'll make memes of you idiots will make memes and when your idiots cry will make memes of you idiots crying and so that's kind of my position well

I thank you for coming back again it's been very interesting and uh oh what is this what was somebody Susan is in there telling somebody to shut the fuck up so I'm guessing oops that was me

sometimes I'm not logged in as me and I reply yeah some idiot or posting stuff. And I just, I have no patience for it right now. Like, I'll kick them for 24 hours because it's a free speech zone. They can come back tomorrow. But just no time for this nonsense today. All right. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you do it on YouTube or Rumble. It goes, it's on the, I don't know, but it came in as me. I was like, uh-oh. Uh-oh. Again, I appreciate you being here. No, you've got to get off

after your show. What's that, Caleb? No, I did, I did want to throw out there that I was actually pleasantly relieved to see a lot of the prominent super leftists say good things. There were probably like a handful of five to ten of them that tried to politicize this more. But even

people like Barack Obama and stuff that you wouldn't expect were saying nice stuff unlike these people like this one here. This one. No, that guy's talking about losing your job, right? Oh yeah. He's going to lose his job. All of them are going to lose their jobs. Oh, I see. I think actually all the people

that I pictured probably have by now. It's all just so sad, but it's, it's, it's revealing itself, as they say. The sinisterness, the sinister elements are revealing themselves. And let's address things head on. And let's try to get to some sort of pragmatic ground, at least, which is what Salty's talking about. My friend, when is your show start? Well, I'll be on tomorrow at 4.30. Yeah. Tomorrow 4.30, and you can find you at X at Salt. 430 Pacific. Is that when it is?

Yep. Okay, at 7.30 Eastern. And we'll have looked for you on X. Salty Cracker 9. I really appreciate it. And did I leave anything out? Is there anything more you wanted to say before I let you get on your way? No, I'm good. Thank you so much again for having me. And big love to Douglas Mackey.

All right. We'll talk to Douglas Macs. Big love to your whole salt world. And the queen, the salt queen. All right, Douglas Mackey up next. Don't go away. I'm excited to bring you a new product, a new supplement, fatty. I take it.

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Dr. drew.com slash paleo valley. Dr. Drew? Dr. Drew. You want to spend the whole session talking about Dr. Drew? There you go. Even you call him Dr. Drew. Just a minute.

We'll have Paul Morrow in here, former detective and expert in all things, sort of crime. He's, I think, in Utah right now. He's going to give us a report from the ground. But first, we are talking to Douglas Mackey. And, by the way, Caleb, if Morrow comes in, I think we have him for a very limited time. So please do let me know when he shows up. Douglas Mackey was just referenced by Salty Cracker. He's

a free speech activist, social media influencer under the name Ricky Vaughn and he was convicted of conspiring to deprive citizens of their right to vote in spite of others doing the same he got convicted. Douglas, welcome to the program. Thank you, Dr. Drew. Great to be here.

So tell people the story. It's rather extraordinary, but it's so consistent with the excesses of the lawfare of the last eight or 10 years. Absolutely. And unfortunately, we're seeing that if they can't arrest you, they might try to assassinate you.

So in my case, back in 2016 during the election season, I saw a, what I found to be, humorous meme on a political website. And it was an image of a woman. And it said, you can text your vote for Hillary Clinton to a certain number, 59925 or whatever, humorous. You can avoid the line and vote from your couch. And so I posted this meme not even really thinking much of it. And my whole entire account was going to be how we vote in the future. Exactly. Little did we know. And I'm sure they would love that because, you know, then imagine how much fraud there would be if they allowed that. But anyway, I posted this meme

and not thinking much of it. My entire account was banned from Twitter at the time. And then a couple of years later, seven days after Joe Biden was inaugurated, I got a knock on my door at 7 a.m. It was the FBI. They said, you're under arrest. And the judge, I was taken to the courthouse here in West Palm Beach. And the judge told me, you've been charged with conspiracy against rights to actually try to steal people's right to vote by posting this meme online. They said that I was in cahoots with a bunch of different people in group chats, designing the memes, planning when to share them, so on and so forth, which this whole thing was like a Kafkaesque nightmare, the trial, you can just imagine. And so what happened was, I was put, that was seven days

after Joe Biden was inaugurated, mind you. So at the same charge they brought against me, they later brought against Trump two years later. So perhaps I was the giddy pig there. They charged me in March of 2023, excuse me, they tried me. I went to trial. March 2023 was convicted. Six months later or so, I was sentenced to seven months in federal prison, and the judge actually told me, you're going to go away to federal prison for seven months, and we're not going to even give you a bond pending appeal. So we had to appeal to the Circuit Court of Appeals. This is a federal case, mind you. And just to get a bond. pending appeal, we finally, we won that bond, thank God, and then the tide was finally

turning. Just this year, and just actually last month in July, July 9th of this year, we won the case. I actually won the case because the circuit court found that they didn't have enough evidence that I actually conspired with anybody to post this meme. They said I was in these group chats that I wasn't even in half the time. And there was no evidence that I was even conspiring with anybody else, let alone whether posting a joke meme, I actually intended for anyone to lose their vote, which is completely absurd. So finally, we've had some good news. I won the case. And right now, I'm huddling together with attorneys and we're planning on filing a tort claim against the federal government to seek not just compensation for damages done by them bringing

this case, which implicates the First Amendment, but also because we want accountability for the actors within government that perpetrated this injustice. Do you know who Christina Bob is? Yes, yes. It seems like she got, she was the lawyer involved in the original indictment or concern the i guess it was a grand jury investigating trump i think it was on this issue right

and then she got dragged in and convicted of some spurious stuff also absolutely i believe uh she was charged in atlanta i believe as part of that case that they tried to bring against trump which and jeff clark my friend jeff clark is another guy that's just been tried through the ringer and there's so many of us it's hard to believe and we're just finding out about more and more lawfare cases

Well, and it goes to what Trump was saying, which is if it can happen to me, it can happen to you. And was there anything else about you that they had dehumanized you to the point that you became a Nazi sympathizer? Oh, yeah, absolutely. They called me a Nazi sympathizer, a racist, anti-whatever. The list goes on and on. And, well, they took some old posts that I had made and said, this means. that you hate black people, that you don't want them to be able to vote. They actually

brought this into the trial just because this meme that I didn't even make, there was a picture of a black woman on it and they said this means that you didn't want black women to vote. Just because you took an image of somebody it's hard

to understand these things. Well, you know, I guess the only solution is to take action in the courts, right? It seems like a lot of this stuff is getting sorted out. out in the courts. Where do you apply pressure? How do you do this? Good question. So we are filing a tort claim, which is sort of an internal claims process with the Department of Justice.

And we know that this Justice Department is trying to write these injustices. So my attorney, his name is James Bartum, we feel very confident that the DOJ is going to hear us out and hear our claim. And like I said, it's not just about compensation. We also want to pursue investigation. So this is something where we're blessed to have President Trump in the White House because, of course, we would just be Stanwald if this was anybody else. But this administration is dedicated to free speech and to correcting some of these lawfare injustices. Well, and you know, at the Department of Justice, Harmeet Dillon has built her whole apartment around protecting these rights and privileges. Have you consulted with her?

Not yet, but we are certainly going to be talking with Harmeet, absolutely, as well, because get this, they didn't even run this case through DOJ civil rights. They were investigating this case during President Trump's presidency, kind of secretly in secret, and they ran it through the public integrity division, which is the same division that they later weaponized against the president, against President Trump, which is pretty remarkable. So, We really want to know all the internal goings on here. Was this, you know, who wrote the memos to bring this case? Whose idea was it?

Was there any external pressure from Hillary Clinton or some of these far left-wing NGOs, the likes of which are SPLC ADL that were cheerleading by prosecution from the very beginning? We want to know what kind of pressure they applied to the Justice Department. What is this department called? Public what? public integrity the public integrity exists

it sounds like it sounds like something again from you know Russia or something it's really just it's very spooky sounding yeah these are the people tasked with going after

bribery and that sort of thing which we know they buried a whole bunch of that during the Biden administration but it's funny you ask that because the last reporting that we know of I believe

20 out of the 30 attorneys in public integrity were let go. The attorney who brought my case, Bill Galada, I believe he is still in public integrity, but we'll be, we want to investigate, look and see what was his role and what was Maine Justice's role? This case, this kind of a case, which is they admit, they admit it all along as a novel case. This goes through Maine Justice.

You don't just bring this case as a line attorney in Brooklyn, New York. So we want to have accountability here. you know we're obviously under the shadow of a great tragedy with charlie kirk situation and you opened your comments by saying if they can't law for you now that now that they've lost some of that capacity they're going to start using weapons and violence what is your assessment of all this well i would be remiss if i if i didn't point out i owed a great debt of gratitude to charlie kirk if a lot of people don't remember this Charlie Kirk, I believe he was banned on Fox News from 2001 to 2004 for questioning the election.

He championed my case at a time when it was not popular at all because he understood free speech and the First Amendment. And it took a lot of money and a lot of fundraising to fight my case at the trial level, pre-trial, post-trial appeals. And he actually donated some of his own money and led the charge in fundraising. So I owe a great debt of gratitude to Charlie Kirk. But absolutely, the sad thing is that if we know that they want to kill Trump, let's just be frank. We know that they try to put him in jail so that he would die in prison. But unfortunately, they also want to kill him. And they killed, unfortunately, a proxy.

Perhaps they couldn't reach President Trump. But they killed a great freedom fighter and a great man and a great ally of President Trump. and look, I think that all of us are at risk. So it's just insane. We've seen it not just with criminal cases, of course, but the lawfare, the civil litigation that they pursued against Trump supporters. So let's just call it what it is. This is a campaign to dehumanize and harass President Trump and his MAGA supporters.

Dehumanizing seems to be the thing. This dehumanizing instinct is what's at the core of it. And then there's enough brainwashing going on that people feel at their liberty to do that. But you went a little too far saying that they want to kill Trump. They just want him to die. They want him to die. And a lot of them, I believe, want to still kill him.

You know, I can't even imagine being the Secret Service and those threats pouring in. Yeah. It's got to be very difficult. Have you had any threats of violence against yourself? So not anything major. I got a couple. but fortunately nothing major.

But the sad thing is that because Charlie Kirk and President Trump are so effective, they are taking all the arrows. If you or I become somehow one day as powerful as them, we will have the target on our back. So that's the unfortunate thing. They go after people not because they're extreme. Charlie Kirk, I don't believe, was extreme. Not because they are crazy.

They go after people because they are smart and effective and they're speaking the truth. where do you want people to find you so you can find me at x.com slash dug Mackey case and we're just raising funds to pay off legal fees at meme defense fund.com and Mackey spelled M-A-C-E-Y Douglas appreciate you being here thank you Dr. Drew

He spells his name the way Frederick Douglas spells it right two S's Hungry now Now What about now Whenever it hits you Wherever you are Grab an O'Henry bar

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O'Hungry O'Henry That's my son's first name Not with two S's. I know. We should have done that. All right. So my next guest is here.

Paul Morrow, he's a contributor for Fox News, attorney at DeMarco Law. Previously served as commanding officer the New York City Police Department's Legal Bureau and the executive officer at the Intelligence Operations and Analysis Bureau. He has brief members of Congress, counterterrorism, justice department, Homeland Security. And he is, I believe, Paul, you're on the ground there in Utah now. Oh, we got a picture, too. Oh, no, we don't.

Good. Keep going. Are you on the ground there in Utah, Paul? One second. He is logged in. You may be muted. Maybe muted. That's what typically happens when we get a little bit of trouble here.

It's set up, though. Gosh, I... You got me? You should have me now, right? Yeah, you're right. Yes, sir. We do. More degrees than a thermometer, and I didn't know enough to unmute the phone.

Sorry. Fair enough. So you, I believe, are on the ground there in Utah. What is the update? You know, I'm sorry to say there isn't really much. We're all standing by here. It was supposed to be a presser that was announced. It was supposed to happen earlier today.

Then it got called off. And then we heard that Dan Bongino and Keshe Patel, top two in the bureau, are en route here. So almost certainly, it was called off to await their arrival so that they can hold it. And all I would say, Doc, is I think you and I both know that if you're bringing in the top two executives from an agency, they're not coming here to say, well, we don't know what we're doing and this is failing. So my gut tells me when they get here, we're going to get a fairly substantive update that will give us an idea of where they're going, but I think they wouldn't be going in this direction if they didn't have some gathering confidence. Do they have a time for that press

conference? They don't. I was just told evening and that might have been down to just the vagaries of getting a plane and when they were going to get here and so on and so forth. But we were told before the original scheduling that things were quote unquote fast breaking. And remember, this is after they issued that still photo that really does seem to be what they're hanging their hats on. So my God tells me somebody called in with a very good tip and said, I absolutely know that person. And my God tells me, again, that there's going to be a strong nexus to the school because that's not the first person.

It's the first time, rather, that that person was up on that roof. You know, they knew enough to get up there, how to get up there, all of that. So they're either a student or somebody who has been here often or somebody who did a lot of reconnaissance. And I think that putting all of that together, likely somebody said, I've seen this person around, I have a name for you. Wow. What about the rifle that was found in the woods? It almost seemed too spot on, you know, with all the rhetoric scribbled on it and stuff on the bullets and things. It almost seemed too on point. Like it was almost like somebody planted it there to get people thinking that somehow that's the instrument. Or have they shown that that was the weapon? They seem to be quite sure, and I had this actually last night, that they've recovered the correct weapon.

Now, the image that's going around is not an official release. So both those things can be true, right? They have the gun. That's just not it. As of now, the image that's going around is a Mouser long-range rifle with a scope. Fairly expensive, but, you know, something you can get a hold of, especially if you do a second hand. The important thing there is that they'll know. Why? Because, unfortunately, one of the hard data points that they do have to work on is the round that killed Charlie Kirk.

So you can do the ballistics. They have the bullet. They certainly have the bullet. Either from the body or if it went through it, you know, this better than I do, the high power round will go through a body. They will have recovered that round. So you can match that to the rifle and you can say, okay, this is the right thing. And that gives you a lot of ways to go backwards. You know, you can check out the scope, which. which might not have been bought with the rifle. And you can see where it was purchased, even if it was secondhand. You can trace it. But as of now, they are not equivocating. They are saying they do have the gun, and that tells me they've done the match. And this is just a question of curiosity.

But that's the kind of weapon I imagined. This was not going to be, I mean, you had to have a, and it was so specific in one shot, there had to be a high-powered scoped weapon, right? Absolutely. I mean, as soon as we saw it, they had that film of them grabbing that older guy as everybody was fleeing, and they ultimately charged him with obstruction because apparently he was babbling all kinds of nonsense. And that's, I guess, the foundation for that charge. But I was immediately skeptical that he was the shooter for a couple of reasons. And let me use a reference point everybody's familiar with. We've all seen the footage of Oswald getting shot by Jack Ruby. And Ruby does not have, his body does not react the way that Charles Carl Lee Kirk's does in that horrible video. And that's because there's a real difference between the damage that a handgun is going to do and around like you're talking about here. So it was very apparent to me that this guy that they grabbed who was near the stage

couldn't be the shooter because he would have had to have pulled out a rifle. And everybody would have said, no, it's the gun right there. He dropped it and, you know, he didn't have that. So I was skeptical and it turns out that that was accurate because everybody does now seem to be saying, quite unequivocally that from the rooftop 200 yards away and, you know, the rest. Is there any, did you hear about this plane that took off and dropped something and they came back an hour, went off radar and then came back an hour later? Is that just coincidence? I would say so.

You know, look, you know, it's funny. It's just referenced the JFK thing. You know, there's this thing where people, and it happened with JFK. where people just couldn't accept the fact that an insect like Lee Harvey Oswald would have acted alone to kill JFK. Now, to be clear, I actually don't think he acted alone. But for big events, we want big perpetrators. And, you know, so we look for these deep, deep things like the crooks shooting in Butler

that almost killed Donald Trump. You know, everybody would like it to be, I guess, or some portions of society would like it to be an Iranian plot. He was catfished. He was weaponized. There's more to this. He's got encrypted apps on his phone and all this of stuff. And all I can say is just, that's just not what happened here.

In terms of crooks, we would know, and we would at least know that there are questions. And I can just tell you, having done so much kind of terrorism, et cetera, Iran is not using Thomas Crooks as their cat's paw. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible, but it would really, really be a break in trade craft. And I feel the same way here. I've heard a lot of foreign intel stuff attached to this thing already. All I would say is be skeptical.

You know, common things, patterns are patterns for a reason. And when you look at assassinations, particularly the 20th century, whether it's Garfield, McKinley, Franz Furtain, and Teddy Roosevelt, people forget, he was, the assassination attempt on him. These were all lone wolves, screwballs, did it in a relatively close range, or not, but they, but they are Lee Harvey Oswald. They were all alone. They're all one dude that created this horrible damage. And they're all very, like, roll rent operations, you know, these are not big complex, you know, rude golds, golds, gold bird operations, you know, these are real simple.

Yes. Guy takes a gun, guy gets up on a roof, guy shoots at. the president. Yeah. It's just, we don't like to, it seems too, makes us all feel too vulnerable.

And to that point, do you think the fact, I wonder what your thoughts are about the fact that everybody had to witness the violence. I mean, to me, when I saw the video,

I thought, oh boy, this, the people are going to, this is going to create a reaction. This is, there's something about that the bloodlust of scapegoating

when it's actually acted out, it creates a huge, emotional reaction in the populace. Yeah, I think there's no arguing with that, you know, especially in light of how graphic that video is. And I think a lot of people who have even advocated violence against people like Donald Trump or Charlie Kirk, not that they see what it looks like. I hope that they're taking a step back because this stuff is not antiseptic and it's not

anodyne. And we have to see, once they capture the part, and they will, we have to see what the motivations truly were, what world is coming out of. I agree with you that the stuff about the inscriptions that are supposedly, allegedly on the shell casing feels a little bit, and the rifle, feels a little bit too on the nose, but I could also see somebody mimicking what we saw from Mention.

I could see them looking at that and say, that's a good idea. And hey, Ryan Ruth almost got the shot off. And hey, the guy in Butler did it from 250 yards away. I can mimic that. It has a lot of the elements of all of these, this recent lineup of political violence.

So I think you're right. And just to sort of close the loop on that, all I would say is, same vein, can you imagine, Doc, what it would have looked like? This video is graphic enough. Can you imagine if Donald Trump had not turned his head and that high-powered round has caught him flushed in his head on international television, the video that we would have to live with now? Yeah, and I heard his family talking about that. They are having sort of PTSD slash flashbacks, sort of fantasy images of exactly that and it's it is not it's not okay it's it's we have to do something

about the world we live in right now but i don't know what the solutions are well i will say this among the solutions and mine are probably a lot more prosaic than big think because i do think you're right i think there's likely a big think resolution here and look maybe it's cyclical maybe at some point we come out of it we're less polarized and all of that i don't know that anybody really can foresee the levers that'll move that but in a more prosaic sense, I heard some of your last guest, and I just have to name check this

because if I don't get the chance to do it, I'll never forgive myself. Donald Trump is still in danger. The Secret Service, which is only a 2,500 to 2,700 or so agency from what I understand, they don't like to publicize their full numbers, but Rich Starapoli,

who I've had on my podcast, former Special Asian in charge with the service, high rank, it tells me that down a thousand agents. It's almost half. That's the equivalent of the NYPD being down 18,000 police officers. And according to Rich, who knows and is still heavily connected there, the management there is no better. They have not put the money into the technology that they need to.

They don't have the leadership they need. They're not getting the training. And their classes, check this out. When the NYPD puts a class in, you're talking to 1,000 cops, 1,200 cops. Fergus puts in 25, 26 agents. they're down a thousand do the math on how long it'll take they need to jump on this somebody in congress needs to say we need a surge capacity

Donald Trump's in danger and you and I both know Charlie Kirk in a lot of ways rest in peace God bless him and I'm not minimizing his impact but in a lot of ways he was a proxy with Donald Trump and the prize is Trump they want him dead you said it yourself I'm not telling your audience anything they don't know but that's the truth where can people get your podcast

You can check us out atopsdesk.org. It'll take you to the substack, and we do it on there. It's on YouTube. We put it out on X and all over the place we're growing, and we're going to push it out a little bit more on the various networks and social media platforms. But as of now,opsdesk.org. And, of course, you can see me on Fox.

I am coming up at 7 o'clock Eastern Time on Laura Engram, and hope to see you there. And Paul D. Morrow on X, my friend, thank you for being here. We really appreciate him. talk you the best appreciate you take care Caleb I see what you put up there

Caleb wants to know whether there's no manifesto I don't want to put Paul in that position of speculating about stuff when we know the FBI director is coming to tell us everything right He literally just landed in Utah today like an hour ago and we had to really

we had to go after Paul he's a friend of ours and poor guy he's very busy and very kindly spent some time and he will have back when he has more information I know what he would say which is if there is such thing which there might be the FDI director

will tell us about it a couple hours so we can't say why there isn't one until we knew that's the strangest part about this to me right now

is because like all of these ideological driven killings and attacks have always had some type of a manifesto usually posted before like you've got to think about

you know I know this person is crazy but it's they've obviously were planning this for a while if they were able to get out of there and figure out all of these things

it doesn't seem like too coincident So where's their manifesto? Where's their video that they posted before? Like, what's the point? Okay, so I would argue that you're putting your finger on something that makes this guy different, right? The other, the recent ones, he looked like a guy in those pictures, whatever. Very slight and could have a ponytail under that hat.

And he could be, who knows. But I'll see what his preferred pronoun is once we get who it is. I'm not kidding. So the fact that he did not have a manifesto does make this perpetrator slightly different than some of the other ones. Again, presuming he doesn't have one. But I would tell you that the ones that had the man, think about those manifestos, they were rambling, they were bizarre, they were cold-blooded. This is something a little different, right? That was closer to either.

You are. No, you're right. Because the other people, the most recent ones with manifestos, those manifestos don't actually make sense. So this kind of indicates a smarter, more calculated attacker in this incident because they didn't leave clues. So, well, that, but it also moves them away from serious mental illness, right? Right. The other ones, you go, oh, my God, you've said nutty a couple times. But they have SMI.

They have serious mental illness. And it was allowed to go unchecked. And the one dude that killed himself and shot in the Catholic. church that that was uh they always killed themselves but but that was a that was a psychopath that that cold bloodedness and then the manifesto and the craziness and but this is not that as far as we know yet so that means this guy's going to have some this is going to be closer to the luigi mangioni thing although he too was manic when he did all that but we'll see this may be strictly who knows we'll see i i don't want to speculate until we hear from the FBI director so we'll be

waiting for that. And Susan, anything else on your frontier? You're soothing Elijah fires, cats. They're purring. They like your voice. Good to know. Good to know. Shall we put upcoming guests on the screen here? That was the most recent thing I read. Yeah, Jay Jick says this guy in gray of the unspent ammo. We think maybe that might be somebody alleging that stuff. We don't know the facts yet. Sit tight. we will have something very soon. I always go conspiracy.

I always think that's a diversion to make it look like it was that kind of a killing. Or it could be just somebody trying to create some more hate. Right, because we are specular here. J.P.C. or just the Rose, Joe Loudapone. Susan's right. Like, I know we're speculating because we don't have the info, but that was the first thing I thought is, wow, this is kind of convenient that it matches the last most recent mass shooters

and then there's no manifesto. It's just some stuff written on bullets, which is what all these other people have been doing. So it seemed almost like it was a distraction, which I wouldn't even be surprised if the shooter himself or herself actually left that as like a false clue. It seems like it's a diversion. Well, that's what Susan thought.

Right. That's what Susan thought. And it was what Paul was talking about it being too on the nose. I don't believe anything. But now we have a different gun that fits more with the ballistic. So we'll see. Zach Levi coming in next week with a bunch under a sargon. Was arrested, the older guy.

Did he have a gun in his hand or something? I don't know. He must have. It was a, it was, the two people that they arrested are detained at the beginning. One of them was just, you know, being ridiculous. And so they got him because it seemed like it, and it wasn't him. They let both of them go. So they're still hunting for the guy.

And what Paul was saying was because he didn't have a rifle and he was at such close range to the stage, it didn't make sense. But did even if he had a handgun in his pocket or something? Caleb was saying no. But even if he did, this was not a handgun injury. That's the point. Yeah. Yeah. So that was that. Horrible.

Horrible beyond. It's so nasty. I couldn't look at social media today. It just was killing me. Thank you, Caleb, for doing the work and Emily, because I just couldn't look at it. It just disgust me so much. I really don't think that the person who did this actually thought this through very well because it is only elevated Charlie Kirk much higher. Like, I see a lot of my.

even my leftist friends are shutting down people in our circles that are celebrating this because they're like they don't understand like people who are not chronically online all the time aren't really super aware of Charlie Kirk so they're seeing their friends who are very online all the time saying all these horrible things they're like

who are you I never what did this guy do they don't know they have not been offended by him because he hasn't reached that point of breaking into the zeitgeist in that large of a set he was close to it he was getting there but not where the normal people just have a hatred for him built in. And so a lot of people are really looking at their friends. Like, what are you guys talking about?

You guys look insane. The other thing this guy achieved, and I think your president put a little wind in this sale, which is, look, Jesus Christ was a scapegoat who became a martyr. That's what can happen with a scapegoat becoming a martyr. It can be very, very, very powerful. And Charlie Kirk is a scapegoat. scapegoat, right? He's scapegoating for all the mob violence. And Donald Trump put a little

coat on it that made it seem like he was martyred. And people are kind of picking up on that. And that's what you're talking about, Caleb, which is that it backfired. Whether or not Trump's words did that, I don't know. He's sort of an expert in these kinds of persuasion. But it is a fact that the scapegoat can easily become the martyr. And you see a lot of people behaving that way. So it doesn't you know people look I think I think Salty said it the best go out and do something

let's go out and do things but live a good life live right live just live you know by the golden rule you get back to the basics the pragmatic basics of being a good person being a good parent a good sibling whatever it might be it is pretty simple when the day is done

but it is going to have to require some effort to silence some of the excesses on both sides. Thank you for being here. We will be here next Tuesday, Zach Levi coming in. Interesting time to talk to him. And Bacha Ungar Targan Unger, how do you pronounce this? Her name? I can never get her full name, but she's a young activist. She's got a lot, very interesting commentary. She's on Bill Maher a couple weeks ago.

And have a good weekend, everybody. And let's try to kind of move through this cloud, but do so in such a way that is productive. See you next week. Atah. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving.

Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in an immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at Dr.do.com slash help.