Ask Dr. Drew - Cheryl Hines: Unscripted, Uncensored & Unafraid To Fight For RFK & MAHA + OAN’s Chanel Rion on Autopen Pardons & Her Big 2024 “Biden Tapes” Scoop – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 550

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

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19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close, you call 1866-3-3-1-2-60 or visit comixonterio.ca. Our two great guests today, coming up in a few minutes, Cheryl Hines, she's making the rounds with her new book unscripted. It is very interesting, very entertaining. I have a million questions for her. She, of course, was Larry David's wife and Curb Your Enthusiasm, in addition to many other acting jobs that she, starring roles in various movies and television shows. And we're going to open with Chanel Rion. She is O-A-N's.

We can follow her at Chanel Rihanna, R-I-O-N, to discuss many other things, including legal challenges to Biden's Autopin, and as well as all the stories that she got right that was vilified for. I want to review some of that with her because those are the people that I want to pay attention to and thank. Back with Cheryl and Chanel right after this. Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopath started this fact. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin.

Ridiculous. Five months. I'm a doctor for . Say, where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real.

We used to get these calls on Loveland all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. You have trouble. You can't stop and you want to help stop it. I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. I've spent most of my career dealing with illnesses that shorten life.

And now we have ways to extend it and extend wellness. I've been working with the team over at B Shred to develop a product that has everything I want in a longevity supplement. NR boost has nicotinamide riboside. You know how metal can rust? Well, your body behaves in a similar way. It's mediated through something called NAD, NAD, NAD. falls as we age, so we're less able to fight off that oxidative process. We oxidize much like that metal. And NAD fights it, but nicotinamide riboside elevates NAD so we can push back on those

oxidative stressors. Improving health, improving longevity. The other product is Senosink, has phyotin, one of the key molecules to fight off zombie cells, and we've added resveratrol to that, which is a well-known anti-aging antioxidant again. I don't like supplements that have a ton of ingredients. To me, it suggests that none of it's working. When I prescribe a medication, I prescribe that medicine because I expect that to work. That is exactly what I've done with these products. And I want you to go to Dr. Drew.com slash v. shred MD for 10% off. Again, that is Dr. Drew.com slash V Shredd MD. Shannel Rion is a investigative journalist, a host of OAN's primetime show, Finepoint. She had served as the chief White House political

correspondent for One American News, and is president and founder of the National White House Correspondents Association. She is a student from Harvard, where she studied international relations and is known for amongst other things, her conservative advocacy. You can follow her, as I said, on X, Chanel Rion, one word, Chanel Rion, R-I-O-N, and ChanelRion.com. Chanel, welcome. Dr. Drew, what a pleasure to join you.

So I want to start with all the things you got right that you were vilified for. Give me a top three list in your mind of things that you either predicted or paid attention to you or raised your hand about and said what's going on here. How dare you? I'm imagining something like climate change is in there. Whatever hoax is on your mind that you let you know what the top three are. Oh, so many good ones. Let's just go back all the way from the beginning, right?

I was never trained in media. I never thought I'd be in media. I always thought I'd stay on the policy, on the legal world side. And so when I fell into the world of media, it was such a whirlwind. And it was such a novel concept to approach stories with a question mark of where is the narrative coming from in this situation? And what are people not saying? And what are the authorities not telling us? And so apparently that was a really novel way to look at stories and news events.

And it did, in fact, lead me to some pretty exclusive stories very early on, given no media training, barely any, when I first joined. So let's start with I had done an investigative report on the origins of COVID-19. And this was back March of 2019. when it was starting to come out. I think at March, we were dealing with a cruise ship. Do you remember that story? A cruise ship that was stuck.

The diamond, something. Yes. And it had some Americans on it. People were all stuck on this cruise ship. And they're like, oh, my goodness, COVID-19 is here. So I did an investigative piece where I was trying to figure out where this was actually coming from. And the two points that brought up right there, even before we even had a national emergency declared was I found this published NIH-associated

medical journal article, and it dealt with gain of function research, which was a brand new topic to me. I had no idea what gain of research was. And I traced this report back to the Wuhan labs and this Wuhan lab and the doctors who were researching coronavirus in bats were corresponding and working with a bio level four lab in North Carolina. This whole story led me to the story of gain a function research, how Fauci bypassed a lot of really important laws in order to make sure that we could funnel money towards this kind of research

and at the time that I put this story out I was completely slammed as this radical crazy conspiracy theory idiot who absolutely who I'm a race oh I'm a Korean racist by the way

um I would say that this racist to say that any of this came from China how dare you and um I I stuck with it because I thought, well, the documentation is right here. You all can look at it. Hover your mouse over the names involved, and you will see the gain of function research, COVID virus, NIH.

They're all interconnected, and you can find the roots of it in this paper. So that was one story. And I am proud to say OAN stuck with it. And you saw a bunch of congressional interest in all of this follow. But it took a good four or five years before that narrative was actually accepted by the mainstream. And now we've all forgotten that four or five years ago we were looking at the story and saying, this is nonsense. That was a good story.

No, no, it's not just nonsense. It is far right, but what do they used to call it? you know, sort of alt-right, QAnon, Nazi, racist, you name it. And I remember it was right about this time where one of the most comedic events of the pandemic happened where in the press pool, I don't know if you were there then, this one journalist kept hammering Trump. Why do you think it's so racist? Why do you keep calling it a China virus? And he goes, because it comes from China.

It was so funny. That's what got me kicked out of my seating assignment in the White House. I, one day, you know, I'm sitting there. Well, but did anybody, to that point, did anybody apologize? Has anybody to this date, Chanel, has anybody apologized to you? Has one person come up and gone, you know, I was, maybe I was a little bit, not one. Yeah, that's disgusting. I've still considered a conspiracy theorist because of my reporting on the Wuhan virus,

which actually what the CIA has confirmed as of this year. I asked Trump in the briefing room, and this was what landed me on the bullseye for targeting by the fellow White House press corps, I asked him, I said, well, do you, Mr. President, do you believe that food that comes from China? Chinese food. Do you believe the term Chinese food is racist? And he said, no, I don't. Well, in that case, why is there such a hullabaloo in this very room? And everyone here seems to be repeating CCP propaganda, and they are the ones who get exclusive access to this White House press briefing room. I don't get it, basically, as we said. And you could hear the, I mean, I think people were about to fall out of their chairs. They were so angry at the fact that I would dare

question the integrity of the White House press corps. And I think one of the hidden blessings of being someone who was so new to the scene was that I really didn't, I didn't know all the players at the time. I really didn't care about joining their club. And that spirit served me very well in the stories that I was able to uncover down the road. The other story that we were right on from the beginning and we were called nut for it was the um the hunter biden laptop investigation i was the third or fourth person to receive the a copy of the hunter biden hard drive from rudy juliani at the time i was reporting on all of this um i had i had just gotten back from ukraine with rudy juliani and i had tracked down the process

prosecutor general that Joe Biden was alleged to have fired when he was over there, that infamous story about Joe Biden saying, I successfully used a, you know, a billion dollars in loan guarantees to get Ukraine change its leadership structure. So I went to Ukraine with Rudy Giuliani in 2019. And, uh, and we came back with 20, 24 hours worth of footage. all from Ukrainian officials all telling the same story that Joe Biden and the DNC had a very strong grip hold on Ukrainian politics because they were all enriching themselves with Ukrainian oil and gas. We brought back documentation of all of this and eventually that one thing led to another. I was sent recordings from the Ukrainian Secret Service of Joe Biden on phone calls with the Ukrainian president. This was my famous Biden bribe tape series on OAN.

And in it, we have recordings of President Biden, no, Vice President Biden at the time, telling the president of Ukraine that we need to basically tighten up our tracks before Trump gets in. because we don't want Trump looking at the financials of all of this. That was a bombshell story. But again, we put this all out. And what happened? Do you remember what happened? It was the lead-up to the 2020 election,

and you had 51 intelligence officials all come out and say, you know, all this stuff out of OAN, all this stuff out of the Hunter Biden laptop. They have all the hallmarks of Russian intelligence. And it was a straight-up. lie. The way they framed it, the way they framed it, carefully framed so that they could dismiss all of this and get us through the election and do our OAN's original reporting. That was such an eye-opening moment for me. Well, eye-opening in the sense of do you, did you feel

differently about the American government? Did you think to yourself, oh, these people are corrupt and we've got a problem in the government? How did it change your feelings? feelings about our institutions? I was never shy. When I was in a briefing or when I was reporting out of the White House grounds, I was not one who hid my particular worldview. I reported what I saw based on my worldview and I was very clear about what my worldview was. So I wasn't ever hiding the ball in that front. But when I walked in before uncovering these stories, I was always on.

on the side of, you know, big government is bad, big corporations are bad, big tech is bad, anything big. If you get too big, you get too much power, you get too much power, and it's so much easier to get corrupted. And that's what the job of the media should be, is to target those who are getting too big and getting too, you know, too abusive in their exercise of power. So that was what I walked in with. After these stories, I realized just how just how lucrative it was to be that corrupt and how it was no joke to say, you know,

there's a system in place in Washington. And once you get past a certain level, that corruption is not the monopoly of a single party. That is the way things are in any seat of power, regardless of your politics. And so it just confirmed for me, like it showed me in, in tangible form and black and white when it came to documents that people are so easily corrupted. And those vectors of corruption are traced very cleanly to my. money, to power, to the desire to be accepted. And that's something I think it's very underrated, I think.

The third vector. People want to be accepted. They want to be part of clubs. They want to be invited to all the right parties. And so they make friends and they want to get in political playbook. And they want their lives to be celebrated by the mediocre in the bureaucratic level. and it's so stunning how easily you can manipulate someone like that, someone who is compromised in the sense that they're not very strong in themselves.

Do you think we're getting out of that mode or is that just something that's going to be a constant low level? No. I think I think this is something that is constant. It's like the ever, it's like the continuous fight between good and evil. conservatives fundamentally understand we're realists if you are a realist you understand there's always going to be a bad guy there's always going to be evil there's always going to be a state that wants to go to war with us and i think that's very biblically grounded this understanding that we we know there's good and evil in the world and the left has this completely opposite viewpoint they

I think a lot of them are grounded in some good intentions and they are grounded in this idea that they want to legislate morality, they want to legislate the bad away and create a utopia. And when they try to create a utopia, it just results in the inevitable animal farm, the George Orwell scenario of

you can't force people into an obelisk. the world is way diverse and in its diversity you have good and evil you're never going to get rid of evil so to answer your original question there's always going to be corruption no matter how we we fix the system we try to fix the system maybe we say we don't want any more insider trading in congress great let's pass a law let's say it's illegal to insider trade as a member of congress There's going to be ways around it. They're going to have their wives trade. Their cousins, their kids, they're going to find ways to be corrupt. And so I think that as long as we understand that corruption is a way of life, it's a reality of life, as long as there's power structures in place, then we'll properly know how to constantly look for it and fight it.

And we have to know that it's a never-ending fight. It's a never-ending fight. It's never going to be a situation where we finally make it here on Earth. We build our utopia. And we said, we're done. We got rid of the bad. We got rid of the evil. We'll never get there.

And I think that's the fundamental difference between left and right, realists and non-realists in this space. You know, there's another little wrinkle in there is that people that lean left tend to hate competition. And competition is something that can keep things honest, so to speak, or efficient at least. if not honest. And they think that government, not military, but government, military bad, government good, but government solving problems is good.

So government handing over a bunch of money and doing no accounting and no follow-up and no whatever. That's good, but somebody who's very carefully allocating capital in a business context and having proper accounting and follow-up and firing people

that aren't artificial, that scares them. But they don't understand the the shortcomings of just these gigantic grifts that come out of the government handing money over and not looking at where it all goes. I'm so glad you brought that out. It also goes back to that fundamental belief

that government is good. There's just a few bad actors corrupt the barrel everywhere. Not the military, military bad. Government good, military bad. Vietnam bad. Civil Rights Act good. But that was another eye-opening moment for me to realize that there is very clearly a camp of people who fundamentally don't believe that government is capable of real abuse, that government is generally good, it just needs to run better.

And those, that little mentality that you highlighted too, that explains why so many, there are, like, in fact, good people who are liberals. Like they're good people, like they have families, they have, they have smiles, they have emotions. It's not like just this, this one dimensional image of that's a leftist. There are people who genuinely believe that the state is good. And I don't, I think that's a not misunderstanding, I think, when you first come to Washington. You don't understand fully that people do genuinely believe that. Because the rest of us look at the government and we look at government spending and we just assume we just think of the DMV and we think, oh, it's fundamentally a broken system and it's not a perfect system. But people in Washington have a tendency that it's perfect.

But it's also, if you believe in governments, but you want, like you said, you want the government to take away bad people, which is essentially believing fundamentally people are bad and left of their own devices will do bad things. And I don't believe that. I believe people are generally good. There are bad people, like you said. Let's go back around to China and Chinese food and China virus and talk about the recent economic tour. It's a sort of Evita Peron's tour that Trump is on in the Pacific Rim right now. What do you think he has accomplished and what did you see in the Xi meeting?

So before we dive into that, I've a lot to say. But going back to the China question, that set me off on an entire journey. And this is another story I think we got right. An entire journey of exposing the cartel. That is the White House Correspondents Association. I set up my alternative association and basically told the White House five years ago, hey, remember, the White House owns the briefing room. The American people own the briefing room.

And they didn't, at the time, they did not quite believe that. They thought, well, no, there's some kind of protocol here that we can't break. I said, no, no, no, you can, you guys can decide who the pool is. You can decide who sits where. And that was a huge conversation that people at first rejected and said, no way, this is under the domain of the White House. And I'm very proud that today that has completely changed in the White House. So that's a third one. it emanated almost directly from the general the general notion that the people are sovereign

is something that i see uh being brought up repeatedly in western democracies like that that's been forgotten like this the peoples are this is this they are the sovereign people this is their money that their government is being granted for what what's that? Lawmakers work for us like they they're not people. we look, they look up to us. And anyway, that's a whole other tangent. But to answer your question about Trump's foreign policy in the last seven, eight months, I have been, I think the only, I was one of the lone voices to start calling out this pattern.

And I think it's confirmed in this latest trip to South Korea and his meeting with Xi. And that is every foreign policy decision, almost every foreign policy decision you can see out of the Trump administration can be traced back to an overall big picture strategy of going to war against China in a way that we've never been to war with China. And what I mean by that is when you look at the way that President Trump went into Iran, if you isolate Iran and you just talk about Iran as this sovereign Middle Eastern country, you're going to have a very different conclusion than if you looked at the facts and you understood how invested China is in Iran and how necessary the Iranian regime is for China's access to cheap oil. When you piece all that together, you understand that Trump going into Iran was an attack on China. Iran is a limb of China in the Middle East.

When you look at the amount of resources that the United States has sent to Venezuela and the Caribbean and that whole region in our Western Hemisphere. Once again, Venezuela is a limb of China in our hemisphere. And yes, I believe we're going after narco-terrorists. But you don't send aircraft carrier 10,000 troops, all these resources, these military resources, just to go after narco-terrorism, that was also another ding towards China.

And you look at Gaza, you look at the Israel War, and you look at this two-state Palestinian solution debate that's been going on for months and months and the conflict happening there. There's also traces back between Hamas and the CCP. And there have been university partnerships between the CCP and Hamas. There have been trainings of Hamas top militant leaders in China.

You have burgers there that are very hard to deny, and no one has denied them. So when you look at those connections and all the Trump policies having to do with going in to Israel and making sure that Israel prevails over that conflict, squashing Gaza, taking out the Venezuela narco terrorists, yes, going in and making sure. sure that we shore up Japan and our team and our alliance there. All of this was a war against China leading up to yesterday's meeting with President Xi. So take note of the body language between President Xi and President Trump. She was very reticent. Now, he's normally a reticent guy. He's a pretty good poker player we've seen in past. By this meeting, there was a very, very sober Xi because he has been surrounded. Trump has absolutely gone to war with China through Venezuela, through Gaza, through Canada even. Look at how Canada has been such an important vector

in helping China bypass all of these tariffs and sanctions. Canada was one of China's big tools. And just before going into this meeting, Trump slaps Canada in the face and says we're cutting off all trade relations with Canada. That was a pretty big move. And that was something that she was definitely not happy about. Last topic, the Autopin. What do you think is going to happen with all that? Oh, I was talking to the team and the group that is really,

deserves all the credit for uncovering this story, the Oversight Project. Mike Howell, our friend over there at Oversight Project, has been on this case for months. he's fairly, he praised the Chairman Comer and his report and his referral to the DOJ, asking the DOJ to look into every single signature, look into the legality of, you know, whether those laws, those pardons, everything that was signed by Autopan. Chairman Comer is recommending that all of it be rendered null and void.

According to oversight committee, 88% of Joe Biden's non-public laws were signed by Autopen. 88%. So if we had the political will, which I'm not entirely sure there is the political will, but if we have the political will, then that means you're going out and you're re-arresting people who are pardoned, you're re-sentencing the people whose sentences were commuted. You are undoing a lot of Joe Biden laws, essentially, and even potential pardons. So the ramifications, if there were political will to do it, is historic. But the general sentiment is we've collected the evidence, here's the testimony that we collected

it all summer long and it's now in the DOJ's hands and I don't know that there's a lot of confidence that there's enough political will to follow up on all the evidence that's been collected there. Chanel, I've got to wrap it up. I really appreciate your hard work and your diligence and your standing firm on things you know to be true. It's, you know, you said you were trying to figure out the narrative and trying to figure right? Let's just use a simple word. Let's call that the truth. Your pursuit of the truth.

It's a reasonable thing to go after. And I thank you for doing that. Where do you want people to find you? Please download the OAN Live app. I would not have been given a voice had the Herring family who owns the One American News Network not taking a chance on me and said, we'll get the platform. So please support OAN. Download the app. You can watch my show every night at 10 p.m. Eastern. And we have an amazing lineup. You've got Matt Gates, Dan Ball. And what I pride ourselves in the network is that we have such a variety of viewpoints that you can sit there in a span of three hours on the primetime lineup and see very different takes on very similar topics. And that's what it takes to understand what's going on. You need to expose yourself to all that kind of information. Download the OAN Live app and support us that way. please. Also, Chanel on X, Chanel Rion, R-I-O-N, Chanel-R-I-O-N.com, and I hope to join me again soon. Thank you for being here.

Thank you, Dr. Drew. It's a pleasure. You got it. Caleb, I wonder you could switch to a two-shot really quickly, if you don't mind. Cheryl is with me here in the studio. I appreciate you being here so very much.

I know we had to sort of shepherds you in under the cloak of darkness. But I actually take a quick break here. So we'll take a break. we're back. What's that? I don't know. Caleb is Cheryl's mic working?

Caleb? Oh, okay. I hear it now. There is. There she is. There she is here. Her book is here. She's making the rounds.

This is worth your time. I recommend it most highly. We're going to discuss it. I don't want to devol. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. And I don't want to give away too much, but I got a million questions. I have a million answers.

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two Emmy nominations. Also, RV, waitress, bad moms Christmas, walk of fame star, and now author, unscripted. And we're going to get into this. This is now my camera. So this is where we're going. This is what you need to read. It's a really fun read. I'm sure people are telling you. of that, right? I have had a lot of people say, I started reading it and I just kept reading because I didn't want to stop. Because it's fun and it's good. And it's, well, let's just start with it. So, so you're an improvisational comedian really by training the groundings. And Lisa Kudrow was your first teacher. Did you have any sense of that she was going to be who she became? Well, you know, she was already on Matt About You at the time. Who remembers that though? I don't

remember you said that. I was like, I didn't remember the show. Yeah. No, I remember the show. I just didn't remember that she was on it. Oh, no, because she didn't have a big role. She was a waitress or something. And so, no, I had no idea she would go on to be such a huge star, but she definitely had that star power. I write in the book that I couldn't wait to go to class because she's so smart. Yeah, you looked up to her a lot.

Yeah, and I just watched her every move, you know, I just loved her. I'm jumping around in my head about so many things about your story. and you grew up in a small town in Florida. This was not a familiar world for your family. No. Or you. And several times during the book, you're saying out loud, like, what the hell's happening here? What is going on?

Yeah. I'm with these stars and they know who I am and what is this? It's a weird thing about television in particular because it's so ubiquitous. It's so, you're just being you and you're practicing what you want to practice. all of a sudden it's over the world. Yeah. Weird. Yeah, it is really weird.

I mean, and even when I got curbier enthusiasm and, you know, my name is Cheryl David on the show. So when I started. You invented that. Well, he did. He did. I mean, he said, well, he said, can we just use your name? Okay. And I said, yes.

But, you know, when people sort of recognizing me from the show, it wasn't clear to me that that's what they knew me from. Because it was just say hi, Cheryl. So I would think, oh, hi, do I, how do I, how do I know you? You know, and then they would ask me about Larry and I'd say, oh, okay, right. I don't, okay, I got it. Well, there, you speculate in here, you, you ruminate a little about what was it, you know, why? I forget what you were thinking in the book. It was sort of like, why do people relate to it so much or something?

Yes. But there was a definite feeling that you were Larry's wife. It was something that you two created that when there was a divorce, we all kind of felt it. But it was like, that's Larry David's wife. And that's that. And because it was so genuine,

the improvisational, whatever you guys were pulling on, there was something that was real there. And we all felt it. We all saw it. Yeah. Well, that makes me feel good. It's funny because I talk about it too,

that Larry wanted, you know, he was looking for an unknown actress at the time to play his wife because the show was blurring the line, right, of reality. Because he had people like Richard Lewis, who's a real person, everybody knew who he was, Jerry Seinfeld. So he had real people in the show and who were playing themselves. So he wanted to cast somebody an unfamiliar face. So they wouldn't say, oh, that's Lisa Kudrow. I know who she is. Right.

But to cast somebody they didn't know, to say, well, I guess that's his wife. I don't know. Why wouldn't it be? Yes. It's really Jerry Seinfeld, so I guess that's his wife. So a lot of people, for a long time, thought I was married to Larry. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure there are people out there that think that I think that I was married to Larry.

Still. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Or mad at you for divorce. Yes, exactly. So, again, I'm jumping around a lot because I had a lot of reactions to your book. I got to tell you something.

Oh, my gosh. I would hear everything. Look at all the dog ears in here. Oh my gosh, I love it so much. I love it so much. So, but one of the things that kills me, there are several things in there that kind of something I've got some questions about and some things that killed me, right? Like you had a lot of loss.

And you sort of gloss over it a bit with a smile like, you know, there was a time when you couldn't get out of bed, I understand, and that was real. But you still feel like your perfectionism kind of won over, right? Just kept going. Yeah. But there was like big time loss. Yeah. Yes, and it's hard to know, you know, other people's experiences, but.

So you're going to minimize your own experience. Okay, yeah. I have had a lot of loss. And let me, I don't want to make you talk about something you want to talk about. I feel like I'm doing that a little bit. No, no, no. Listen, I am very, I'm very interested in grief and grieving. And it's, there's something about me that even when I was in high school, I was interested in it.

I was interested in death and dying. Is that where you read Kubler-Ross was all the way back then? Yeah. Because that's when I read. It was about that. Yeah. And it struck me and it stayed with me. And then, yeah, when I did experience loss in my own life and in my life, I should say, you know, it was helpful to know that.

other people experience it too um and to to to know it's debilitating i mean i think it's kubler ross who says you know don't make decisions when you're in hit with grief if you lose somebody very close to you it's okay to be depressed it's your body telling you to stay in bed let yourself be depressed don't make big decisions you're not in a you're not in a place to. So that was, you're right, for me, that was hard because I'm always, I'm not the kind of person that stays in bed. No, I see that. You were not, but I was surprised you did. Well, I was, I was really trying to study my way out of grief, which isn't, uh, it's helpful, but it's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, I really wanted to know a timeline.

Well, you may, I'll tell you what, well, and Kubler-Ross sort of suggests that there's stuff like that. And by the way, you end the book with a Kubler-Ross quote, which was something I don't, didn't remember, but it was beautiful. I was like, wow, that came from her. But I don't know if your brain works like mine does. Do you have OCD too? You're a little bit OCD?

No, but you're perfectionistic. For some things. I see. But not for other. Like I could walk over a pile of dirty clothes for four days. I'm fine. But my thing is I need to understand things before I can kind of walk into it emotionally. Is that what was happening to you?

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Sometimes I can definitely. I want to know what I'm in for. And so Paul, your ex-husband. Yeah. Paul, Paul, young.

Bipolar disorder. Right to see the one? No. Was it getting confused on the polls. Yes. I have two, there are two Pauls that I talk about in my book. There's one Paul, Paul Beckett, who was, you know, my best friend. Okay.

And he, he wasn't a diagnosis. with bipolar. You described it quite accurately, yes. So I couldn't tell, you know. But we don't know, is it drug-induced or was it just endogenous or whatever? Right. Is that one manic outbreak with the post-it's everywhere? Yeah.

That was a mania, for sure. That was mania. That was after he. On the other side. That was, yeah, so my best friend. And I guess you're right. I guess we don't give away too much of the book. I don't know.

We can stop there if you want to. No, no. I mean, listen, I, I, I actually like to talk about it. Well, but it does give away a little important piece. Let's not do it. Let's let them go read about it. Because you talk about it quite vividly in the book, so it's all there.

Yeah. That really, Paul Beckett really stays with people. People who have read the book, they really talk about him. It's pretty shocking. It was even me dealing with that condition from many, all sorts of context, even I was like, oh, oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. And you set it up well, too. Like, you know, I'm not going to tell you more, but in terms of everyone was being very, very careful. Yes. Yes.

And either the doctors, the law or the hospital, they're being very careful. And then, boom. That's the, the dangerous part about stuff like that. When people decide that kind of thing, it's, they don't tell you. It's the hard part. I know. It's what my therapist told me. But Paul, the other Paul. Yes. That was the other question I had. I couldn't tell why that broke up. You know what is so funny. I just talked to. you, Adam Carolla? He said the same thing. He said the same thing that's so funny. Did he read the book? We listened to it. Is it on audio tape? It is on audio. It hasn't been released yet, but I don't, I don't know that. He doesn't read if you read your book. I was not to say, I don't know that Adam read the book, but we were, because we were talking about, we were talking about work and I said, I'm actually working with my ex-husband right now. We're producing a film

together. Yeah. And he said, why are you working with your ex-husband? Yeah. I said, well, we really like each other. We just watched the Woody Allen film, a old Woody Allen film called Hollywood Stories or something? What was it called? Where he's producing a movie. He's direct movie she's producing and his ex-wife. That's so funny. Well, yeah, so Adam was just, he said,

why would you work with your ex-sincement? I said, I really like him. He's a good guy. You know, we get along, we have fun. And he said, why did you ever get divorced? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was telling him that, you know, Paul Young and I, and we both changed probably since.

But at the time, we were married for seven years, and he has a more, he approaches life with a more different kind of intensity, sort of like that's what propels him forward. He does, you know, he does contract negotiations and he feels like it's a good negotiation if both sides are mad at the end. So he's fine being the person to, you know, make everybody mad. And I, you know, I approach things more with a, okay, well, what are we going to do about this? Maybe it's not as bad as we think, doesn't go over well sometimes with people. And, you know, like, let's look at the glass half full. So when you have those two attitudes where it's like, no, I need to stay mad for a little while because it's, I'm in this negotiation

and I need to stay mad at this person until, until it's done. To me, that, you know, it gets difficult if somebody's, you know, charged up all the time and I'm always like, let's approach it in a calmer. Anger, you don't like all the anger. Yeah, if you would have, yes. He wasn't angry all the time,

But at the time, it didn't seem like he was quick to want to move out of that space. And I, and, you know. Hard live with that. Yeah. And knowing what I know about myself now, I mean, somebody could, one might say, I have anger issues, just my relationship with it. Like, I'd rather not bother it. You know, I don't, I, I'm not quick to. get angry. Do you shut down when people are angry? Or do you have just avoid conflict? When other people

are angry? Or do you? I listen. You know, I listen. But I, I, I'm solution oriented. Yeah. And that's not always helpful when somebody's angry. Yeah. Yeah. I like that I'm telling you about these things. All good. I like it. Okay. So we're going to talk a bit about Bobby now. I want to see what the chat world is asking about you see if there's anything in there before i go on um and i do want to talk about larry too so so so but that's what we're going to focus our time here and in terms of bobby we were early bobby sports where's my camera there we go i love that so much this was an early hat i forget where i got it and uh comedy show the comedy show is that the comedy show i met you for two seconds there yeah yeah and uh and then this is uh this is a this is

I love that that Kennedy President had. I actually went to go vote, and I had to, like, type it in or whatever, because I would do it for the primaries. Oh, primaries, yeah. And I asked them, I asked them how to do it. She was a huge early. Early on for the primary. No, no, no, but she was like, all in, all in.

So I was like, how do you make this work? And they go, who are you going to vote for? I go, you know, RFK Jr. They were like, wow, tell us more. So I told him how great he was. We're going to vote for him, too. It was really cute because they were like, I like, I suck.

I love it. That's really funny. Yeah. Yeah, I, and when he threw him with Trump, we were actually with Nicole of filming a podcast. Oh, you were? Right at that moment. Wow.

Wow. A lot of emotions. Yeah, yeah. She was good that day. I mean, I guess she had a lot that followed, but it is what it is. I mean, listen, he told, Bobby told me that this, he's doing the, he had a superlative in terms of how he's describing the job of HHS secretary. And it was essentially, I'm not going to do it justice,

it was essentially this is the best job, this is perfect job for me and the best job I ever had doing exactly what I want to do. Yeah. And that to me, when somebody says something like that, it catches my ear. Yes. It wasn't like I really like this job. I was like, this is me doing my best the way I want to do it.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel that from him. And he does say that. And is he, are you out here now? Are you just moving around? I'm in D.C. Most of the time, I have a place out here.

So if there's something that brings me here, I'm here. So you're back and forth. Yeah. Yeah. I have a friend that's a big in the DOJ, and he used to be the city attorney in Huntington Beach, and he goes back and forth a lot. It's a long flight. It's hard.

It's a long flight. Yeah. You get kind of a skill with it. But Larry, Larry did. Yes. So I'm a huge fan. I met him once. I did some crazy thing for what used to.

to be TV Guide Channel where he had us sit and analyze some episodes and talk about Larry the character. And it was interesting to me that my sense of Larry the character was upsetting to Larry David, I think. I thought he was a little, I didn't know the character that well at the time and I was a little harsh in my assessment. My assessment. And in terms of his narcissism and his stuff. And Larry was like, yeah, but he really didn't understand that Larry's the defending the character, which is really interesting. But you talk about what a dear man he was, what a great role it was, what a wonderful relationship you had.

I remember seeing somewhere footage of that last episode. I guess you got the whole cast is on a plane or something. And at the rap, you guys all, you know, stood up and stood up and said, you know, expressed. And then what followed kind of breaks my heart. And I'm sure yours too, where Bobby's presidential run and his association with Trump somehow violated, particularly Larry's sensibilities, I guess. I mean, I would say, you know, look, Larry has been very open and candid about his. DDS. His Trump derangement syndrome.

Yes. And his politics through the years. I mean, even Bobby and I were just talking about, you know, the episode in Curb, this was years back, when he, when Larry wore a MAGA hat to repel people in L.A., so nobody would ask him to go to lunch. And it, you know, it was really funny when we were shooting it. And then now looking back, I'm thinking, yeah, oh, well, that is true. That would actually be true. Out here. Out here.

But the rest of America thought was funny because it seemed so, like. like taking the idea and taking it to the next level. Like, that wouldn't, that doesn't really happen. And it's like, actually. Out here it would. Yeah. Actually, out here it would. Yeah.

Yeah. It's crazy, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I heard you on Heather McDonald, I guess, just a couple days ago. Yeah. Where she made a joke that I thought it was just a perfect metaphor where she describes how

Bobby Kennedy was the coolest guy in the world and all of a sudden he's vilified. He's like the he's like the Tesla truck. He's like the truck was a cool and then all of a sudden we're graffiti it. Yeah. And I don't do people not examine their motivation, their point of view and they have these wild swings and I mean how could how could this person you admire suddenly be so far south? That's what does it make sense it it to me it doesn't make sense because um Bobby has done such great work consistently in his career, consistently,

always defending people and their health issues, you know, because of environmental toxins. So he's been doing that consistently. And then in one day, someone will say he's trying to kill everybody. It's like, that doesn't add, that makes zero sense. There's no indication. Everything you're saying does not make sense right now. But people do not want to.

They can't. They can't think. They're so emotional right now. They're so blinded by their hatred of Donald Trump at times that they can't. And I think Bobby was treading on sort of, I talked to Aaron Siri yesterday. And he talks. He talked about how vaccines have a religious quality around them. Where there is a canon and the candidate is selected by the authorities.

And if you step on the canon, you're a. sinner and you have to be burned at the steak and all this stuff is just the way it is and uh i i think bobby was treading on that territory and he changed me the first time i talked to him it was on this program he was we were talking you know through the screen here and uh he was in that you know he did a lot of podcasts earlier on where you had in front of that bookshelf yes yes so well that's always where he and i talked yeah and uh many books said you're like what am i looking at yeah and then like a weird skull in the back or something and you're like, why, do you have to leave that

there? And he said, yeah, of course. Yeah, okay, all the books. And he said to me at the end of the interview and I just thought it was interesting. He changed my mind on a lot of things. It was very interesting and very engaging. And he goes, you know, Drew, you're so courageous to talk to me. And I was like, what?

He goes, yeah, you'll see. This takes courage. And I was like, for a doctor and a lawyer that don't agree on everything to share ideas and talk publicly, that requires courage, we've got a big problem here. Yeah. Yeah. And it did, and it did require courage and you did it. And, you know, I love hearing you, I love hearing you talk about everything, but the vaccines, there's, you know,

there's just, they're just facts. There are studies. There are. These are medicines. These are, these are just these there's even the idea that there's a good i've had to say this for years when it comes to substance abuse like they oh do you think marijuana is good do you think alcohol's good no i don't think any substance are good or bad i think they just are and they affect people and they affect people and we should look at it and analyze it's good in certain circumstances and there's some consistency how it affects people so let's look at that and then i can tell you this is how it affects well i just and this is something that bobby's been fighting for for a long time is to help people like me that practice medicine

with informed consent. And I was telling Aaron that, you know, when I, I have a lot of elderly patients and some of them are way boosted and I'm like, I wouldn't get in the way of that. And some of them certainly during alpha and delta phase, I believe we really help them with the vaccine. But now when they come to me and say,

should I be boosted, I'm like, well, first of all, you're not gonna be hospitalized for this illness anymore. I've got a lot of good treatment. I've got a lot of good stuff and mold of peeravir and things. I've got stuff I can use. So we're going to keep you out of the hospital. Don't worry about that. It's not going to prevent the illness.

It's not going to prevent transmission of the illness. And it's designed to attack a variant that's no longer with us. Right. I don't know how to advise you. Right. So what am I supposed to do? I know. I know because for some people it's a, I don't want to say psychological, but, you know.

It's the religious thing again. And if it's important to you to feel safe and you want to do it, I will not get the way of it. Please do. If you're a 20-year-old male, I would try to talk to you out of it. Yeah. Because there's zero probability of serious illness and non-zero probability of vaccine reaction. Yeah. But to say that, again.

I don't know why people. Well, that angers people. And you're just, you were just saying, here's what we found. This is the black and white of it. And somehow that will make you a bad guy to a lot of people. I don't know why. Isn't that crazy? Oh, it's crazy.

And Susan, in the book, There's a, talk about crazy. There is a moment at Bobby's mother's funeral. Shocking. I did not know what that happened. Well, I wouldn't have put it in my book except that. Wait, what happened? We're going to talk about it.

I wouldn't have put it in my book except that was either a reference. It's either the New York or New York or magazine, one of them, maybe the New York magazine. But they did an article about it. So who? So. And I'm guessing the article was a distortion. Yeah, of course, because it was from unidentified sources. So that's never, you know, that's a shady sign.

But I was there, so I saw it. I was in front row, maybe second row. I saw it. But when Bobby's mother, Ethel passed, she had a small memorial in Hyannisport and then a larger one in Washington, D.C. And you had a real relationship with her. I really loved her. Yeah, that's what I thought. I really, I really loved her.

We got along so, so well. And Bobby was giving a eulogy. Just a little more bagged story to it that you'll see in the book. And, you know, it's not a secret that a handful of his siblings spoke out against him. when he went against Bobby when he was running and it's still you know there's probably one or two that still do very weird ways very weird ways it was all i would be so curious to hear from a doctor i did not know what to make of it i just knew something wasn't it just didn't make sense didn't make sense if you don't you don't agree with your brother politically that's okay

there's a lot of weird attack in his recovery and his character and yeah and that was the stuff I was like, well, I can talk about that. I've seen as recovery. It's good. What are we talking about here? There's a lot more. There's always this tendency, you know, people in addiction do bad things. And we're going to hold that over them forever.

Yes. Yes. There is that. And that's odd, isn't it? Well, it seemed gratuitous and self-serving. Yes. And what's the word? I can say nasty things about it.

These are your, you can't. No, I can. Yeah, no, I don't care. I don't care anymore. Like, I feel like some of them have been just so inappropriate, and I've been so disappointed that, you know. Well, let's leave this as a cliffhanger. You're going to have to read the books.

I'll least leave you in that chapter. Because it's pretty shocking what a family member does. And then the priest, too, was pissed me off a little bit. I was beside myself. I can't believe how the Kennedys have to take so much shit from everybody. I mean, I'm sorry, pardon my word. but it just, it never ends. Yeah, people are, it's a name that gets people's attention.

That's got to be weird for you too also, right? And I want to talk a little bit about Bobby. And even your description of him, he lives large. Yes. He fights the axe and he takes you on speedboats. Yes. And there's a lot of stuff. Yeah, I love that.

I wish you were more like that. That's cut deep. That hurt. That really hurt. We'll get you a speedboat. Thank you. Thank you. I'm not going to be fighting any yak so I can help that. I was making a joke. Not interested in it. But, you know, that's the, that's the drug addict stuff. A lot of that thrill-seeking is just still in him and he's got a control. I'm going to be careful. So it doesn't spin out.

I know the risk-taking. It's like you don't have to do a flip-off the. cliff and to the water. We don't even know what's down there. It's like, okay, watch me. It's like, okay. Yeah, I worry about him. Same. Yeah.

And another, his, who was telling me that they overheard him in a, you in an interview about his diet with the sauerkraut and steak, which I was kind of on that diet for a while too. That's a good diet. Yeah, fermented vegetables. That's all he eats is meat and fermented vegetables. See, I think, because Katie Miller was asking me, what happens when he goes out to eat? And I said he will bring his own sauerkraut.

And then he'll ask me, you know, we'll be walking out the door and he'll say, can you put this in your bag? I'm looking at my Chanel bag and I'm like, no, I cannot. And you smell like sourcrack? Yeah, I say, yeah. That's like a Larry David moment. It is. There are a lot of those in our life. But I was like, if you would have asked me this, you know,

So 30 minutes ago, I could have picked a different bag that I'd be okay with. But no, you can't have to carry your own sauerkrauts. Does he like caraway seeds? Put it in the sauerkraut. It's amazing. That's an old check recipe of my family. People ask me out my head again, what happens? I had cancer removed from here.

It comes up on the thread once in a while. I'm getting more wound care tomorrow. So it's good times. Don't get old. Bottom line. Okay. I'm going to stop. Stop here.

I'm very ready to just stop. Are there, I didn't hear in your book a lot of regrets. I don't have a lot of regrets. Yeah. I really have very, very few. And, you know, I think because I learned early on, you know, you end up regretting things that you never did. so I like to say yes to things and do it so I don't so 10 years from now I don't sit here and say I wonder if I would have driven across country to L.A. if I could have made it or whatever that

looks like I wonder if I could have climbed this mountain I mean I probably could have sat that one out but well I was going to say Bobby took that next level for you like okay um yeah he he uh He, I really, I suspect that the job that he has to do is far more difficult than it's certainly the average viewer, you know, somebody who's bystander, like myself, can imagine. I just see, I see the magnitude of what he's trying to navigate and trying to, he has, and he has a boss, he's got to keep happy, you know, and he's got bureaucracy that he's trying to unravel or get the tiger by the tail. Yes.

Is he still happy with the job? And what's going on? Yes. Yes. And he's really liked putting his team together. So when you have some great doctors on your team and everybody's moving together to accomplish the same things. I mean, I know that he really likes that.

And he really likes working with the president. I mean, it's not a secret that the president is getting things done. So I think that's also part of the excitement because usually it's like a glacier moving, right? It's like the things don't get done. But because, you know, this is the president's second term. And probably he had four years off to really think about what he would do and how he would do it if he got back in there. Yeah, yeah. He and Bobby work really, really well together.

Which is nice. Yeah. Does Bobby have like a secret list of accomplishments he wants to get done by the end? I should ask him that if I ever get back to see him. They're not that secret. Okay. So it's all. So anything he's told you is, I mean, that's his number one.

You know, he, I mean, he's doing, by the way, he's accomplished a lot already. But definitely vaccine safety is, is one. That's a big one. One of the things he and I really connected on was the adulteration of the publication process in medicine, the clinical. Right. And he's made a lot of headway on that. Well, and but he, but it was, but I don't know if he thought of it or Bottacharya thought

of it, but Jay came up with this great idea, which is that we got to take down the importance of publishing in certain journals and elevate the importance of reproducing your studies. And only then does this thing become citable, not just because it was in nature or New England journal but because it's been reproduced four times that's a good study that's good and that's a really interesting way of toning this all down yeah because bobby was very concerned that we got to get the pharmaceutical industry out of the public saying we've got to look at the how the editorial process has been adulterated and really mic maybe maybe subjected to a riko analysis i mean that's what he was talking about yeah and he might still do that maybe he'll still do that you know but it is a lot

about data is it data or data data data but but you know looking at the just looking at what has happened and um how many times it happened and what was there a problem with the something whether it was a drug or a vaccine or something but if you have the data behind it you can say yes this amount of people had this sort of reaction so you know I think that's one of his big goals Good. Yeah, because even I, I was a vaccine enthusiast. I mean, I was an absolutist, and I was, Rob Schneier's a friend in my night.

I used to go, come on. Sit it down, said it out, Rob. These things have been important. But hepatitis B vaccine, I don't get that. I don't get it. I don't get COVID for kids. Thank God he got rid of that. There are things that are just nonsensical from a medical standpoint.

And this idea that you can't bring into account a risk-reward analysis for every given intervention. Well, right. Is bizarre. Right. That is bizarre. And why, I mean, I definitely think exactly what they're doing, going through you know, vaccine by vaccine, shot by shot. Is this, we still need this? Is this effective? Does it do more harm than good? And do

parents' people know exactly what the harm could be? And should we even be having mandates? 88 countries don't have mandates of any sort. Three of five, communist countries don't have mandates. China doesn't have mandates. Florida now is trying to get rid the mandates. Thank God. Latipo is doing a great job there. Still playing poker? Yes. It's been a while. I did. But yeah, I went with my nephew of my sister not too long ago. You mentioned Dana Duke. Duke. The Duke twins. Annie Duke. I played poker with her once. Yeah. She's good. Was she Yeah, go.

Well, she, it was a big table with a bunch of people, with experts, I wish I could remember their names, and then some celebrity type thing. And I forget who got the hand across me that I was betting against, but Annie was sitting right here. And I had a full house, and she could see it. And there were two nines showing, and this guy was abetting very aggressively.

And I said, Andy, the only way that I'm going to lose this hand as if he has two nines also. And she's like, well, he might, but the right bet is to go all in. Which I did, and it was four nines. But you did the right thing. But then I read her book on that kind of analysis. What's the right thing?

You may not end up right. What does the book say? But what's the right bet given what's there? Right. What are the outs? That was very small probability that he had. But I played with Annie a few times too. And she is, you think that she's not, you know, paying attention.

And then she'll say, why did you just fold? You held on to two jacks, you know, three hours ago. And I called you. And, you know, it's like breathing to her. It's like in her all this time. She's been watching. She knows what you had. She knows what you folded.

She knows what. And it's just like, whoa, okay. Yeah, that's the real deal. That's the real deal. stuff. So here we are now. You know, you've been through this incredible life, really. And thank you for curb. I have sons that are humongous fans. I had to tell one son that you were going to come in just because he would have killed me if I had not told him. Because he could be, he couldn't get here. He would have been here. He would have been here.

Oh, that's sweet. And. Yeah, these are these are, I don't know why. that show struck such a chord with people. It really is something that people either, and you were not as much of a fan. I'm going to be honest. No, no, only of Cheryl. The rest of them drove me nuts. They drove me nuts.

It reminded me of our family too much. Just give me anxiety. It gives me anxiety. Yeah. Gives you anxiety. Yeah. And I knew most of the people that were on the show. I didn't know Ted, though, which is interesting.

Yeah. And everybody just talks about how great he is, you know. He is. Yeah. And everybody's great. I knew Jeff. I know. They are.

They're all great. He's all great. And Richard, particularly. You would do a nice job of describing him. I love Richard. Very sweet man. It was hard too. I mean, he passed away during this.

I don't think I, I don't think I added that in my book. Because I was like, oh gosh, another loss. But yeah, when Richard died, that was really hit me. You might look back at old episodes. You can see the Parkinson's coming on years ago. I mean, I could see it. And I was like, oh, it's like, and then I knew he had depression already because he used to talk to me about it. And those two together is a rough road.

That combination. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was a very sweet soul, such a sweet soul. And funny as hell. Yeah. And I love that Larry loved him.

Yeah, I love that Larry loved him too. That was important. And Jeff, was Jeff considered at the time when he was cast like you, someone who was not known, so to speak? That's a good question. I mean, that's a question for. Because he was not as prominent. Right. So if you watched it, you might, if I watched it, I didn't know, I'd probably think.

And he was not really playing himself. Not really. He wasn't really playing himself, no. But he, you know, when he talks about curb, he talks about sort of creating this idea with Larry, like. Jeff says that. Yes. Like, you know, you should do a special.

That's right. He was a producer with that. Yeah, he was a producer. That's right. I forgot that. He was probably, I mean, I'm sure that was a decision for him and Larry, just like, yeah, I guess this would be a good character for me to play. And it, yeah, now that you say it. And I love the way you describe the process where there's no script.

It's just circumstance. It's a bad apple. Was that the first time? Was that the first? Yes. Yes, we're shooting. And it's all improvised. I didn't know what, I didn't know what the show was about ever because I didn't have to see this.

the outline and with in larry bites into an apple and he said this is mealy i mean the cameras are rolling you know and he's well don't eat it oh my god i don't know what to tell you and then i'm thinking when it was driving home i said i'm thinking is the mealy apple part of a storyline on the show but it wasn't it sure wasn't and and then you blame yourself for being written off the show with the divorce what why i didn't quite get that oh because because my friend Geraldine told me about she was on a plane that the landing gear

wasn't tracking not to work and she called home and her husband because they thought they were going to have a crash landing everybody's calling home to say goodbye she called home to talk to her husband to tell him she loved him and he said I can't talk right now

I've been waiting for this technician all day I'm going to have to call you back so I thought it was so funny and then when I told Larry about it and the next thing I know he's like yeah we're doing a show about that because that's hilarious and this is going to be the final straw

and you're going to leave me because you're going to call home I'm going to be with the TiVo guy I'm not going to take your call and you're going to be that's going to do it but he doesn't say whether you continue on the show and some other I don't remember how that went

did you came back no you know after we got divorced on the show there was one season that I wasn't on at all And then after that season, I came back as, you know, his ex-wife. And then Ted got involved with it. And then Ted got involved. Which is so funny. Which is also funny because, you know, Bobby has said before,

because Bobby and Larry used to be really close friends. Really? Yeah. What? Yeah. That is shocking to me. Yeah. I felt like Larry dismissed Bobby.

Bobby during his presidential run. he did why because he was not happy that somebody was running against Biden oh I see so he's a purest

oh yes yes 100 percent so you gotta be like him or the highway well you know he I mean you know he said I support Bobby but I don't support Bobby I did not know that they were friends

how did they become friends oh geez I don't even know Is that in the book? Did I just miss that entirely? Well, it's in the book because that's how I met Bobby through Larry. But it was sort of through the show, was it or something? It was a, Bobby was having a waterkeeper event. So I just went with Larry and, you know, just bent Bobby in passing. It wasn't a big deal.

But, yeah, they were friends. And when it turned like, oh, something might be going on with me and Bobby, Bobby, you know, sat down with Larry and said, can I, are you okay if I date Cheryl? My dad. It was very sweet. But then on curb, Ted sort of did the same thing. He said, you know, is it okay if I date?

Cheryl. In the series, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Larry said, yeah, it's not okay. Yeah. And he did it anyway, you know, so it was just art. I remember that episode. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that is to surprise me that he could do, that people could be that way. And you had a podcast with someone who did that to you and I just. It's hard because it's, I don't get it. I don't know. It's people are, you know. It's got to be Trump's arrangement at its core. It has to be something in that zone. It's something that people feel like these are my, that my values are so represented by my politics.

I think that's it, right? my values are so represented by my politics that if your politics are different then that's telling me your values are different and we can't what do they even mean by that values is we all want people to thrive and do well we just have different ideas about how to get there it's weird or made different ideas about how to protect people or how to serve people it just would we all want the same thing well that's why the vaccine conversation is strange because we all want the same thing We all want our children to be healthy and happy. We want each other to be healthy.

So nobody's out to try to positive vote for it. But as soon as somebody says you're trying to make somebody sick or back in current COVID, you want to kill people. It's like that is such a profound distortion that that's in you. There's something wrong with you. If you're thinking that way, it is. And it goes back to the politics, right? So if someone's saying, I cannot have a.

a relationship with you because of, you know, who you're married to, it signals to me that, oh, you wouldn't be able to have a relationship with your spouse if they did something you didn't like or you're, I just hear that hatefulness, that's what I hear, is that you're looking for a reason to, I don't know, it's, it's a black and white thinking, all this or all that. Yeah, black and white thinking. You know, it's a very pathological thing that people do it to go all this way, all that way. It's all good, all bad. It goes back to something called a good mom, bad mom split that's in infancy. It's like this weird unhealed. What does that mean? Good mom, bad mom split? It's just, you know, early on in development. Like a baby thinks that about their mom?

Babies, moms all good or all bad. All depriving, I'm crying, I need you, or it's all good when I get you and it's all. And some people stay with those splits. You mean the mother feels like that? No, no, the baby feels like that. Baby's all good, all bad. That's sort of a normal. It's normal. No. They don't have a carryover. Yes. I'm crying.

I'm crying because I need mom and she's not meeting my needs. So therefore she's all bad. And when she comes in, she's all good. It's all perfect. This is a perfect reunion. Right. And people with certain personality disorders and types can continue that their whole life. I see.

That whole, and think that about everybody. And they have trouble with object constancy. Like when somebody moves out of their field of vision, they can't even keep them in mind anymore. Right. It's just, this is all, we've had so much of this bullshit right now in this country. Yeah. It's really, I saw it coming.

I saw it coming. And I knew it was going to create scapegoating. And then it came. And I didn't know how it was going to come. I was still shocked by it. And it's part of the same stuff. Yes. That actually makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, it's not good. It's very pathological and people needed to know that they're engaging them. And I almost feel like they think that they're grasping for straws like when they were voting for Biden because it really was not a winning horse. It was not a good idea. But if we could just take the politics out of it and look it as a business feeling and say like, who would you rather build a building with Biden or Trump? Who would you rather, you know, do this with Biden? You know what mean? Who would be the best person to get things done? And I would put my politics aside and even though I didn't agree on. I think so. Okay. I imagine. I don't have my ear thing on it.

because of my surgery. But I see Bobby working with Trump because he sees a future. Yeah, he sees a good business. And it's not because he's right, left, middle, because, you know, he was a Democrat. I was a Democrat. I voted for Obama, and I didn't vote for Trump the first time. And I did the second time because obviously Bobby wasn't available at that point. Well, no, because Bobby threw in.

That's why you went in. Yeah, yeah. Well, I heard about it, but I honestly think it's a business deal, and people need to take their politics out of it because we need to build a safe world. We need to stop these wars. We need to stop this China threat that people don't realize we had warfare on us with that leak of COVID-19. We never did anything about it. We have to protect ourselves as a country.

And we're alive. Okay, we're back. Caleb, sorry about that. Explain what happened and then ask your question. I think you guys were talking about China. And the moment you started talking about the CCP, then all of a sudden, I literally doing nothing got a blue screen of death on my computer

on this whole streaming PC. It's pretty ridiculous. And there have been attacks on the satellite systems, right? Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. I mean, yesterday, both Amazon and Microsoft Cloud went down at the same time. Are we back on Twitter? If it's not, I have a full recording of the episode.

So we'll upload that and get that. We're on Rumble. I think we're back on YouTube. Somebody give me a shout out if you can see us. But not on X apparently. Yes. So I might have to upload this ending part after because it's just looking at the much. Yeah.

So we're on Rumble. Oh, we're on YouTube. I don't think we're on. X though. I think X, I just tweeted, we said the word China on the show on the show Krause. We'll be back. So, Kail, you have a question. Yes. So Cheryl, this is my question, actually. So I really love how you handle the press. I think it's in a marriage, it's super important to have this united front to everybody that's on the outside of that marriage, but then on the inside to have this wide open spectrum that you can, you can have differences

in opinion. Like, for example, my wife, we just had our 10-year wedding and a friend. first year actually of two kids. She is not a full on super leftist person, but she's a lot more left than I am. And I actually love her for it because it balances out my law and order. Don't tread on me Texas style with all of her extra empathy and compassion. And so what I want to know is how you and Bobby keep that balance where you can have differences of opinions on political stuff, but still have a united front to everybody else. Yeah, I think it's good to. you, you know, listen to each other. Why do you feel like that?

That's, you know, where we start. Because if you're just mad, if you're, where, that's where it starts and ends for some people where you're just mad that the other person thinks differently. And it's like, I'm not going to listen to you. So we're, we're pretty good about listening to each other and saying, okay, I'm going to calmly listen to you. Tell me why. And then, so, and then, you know,

Sometimes for me more than him, he's, you know, I will say, I need a, I need a minute with this information before I give an answer or tell you how I feel about it because I need to process it before. So I don't, I'm not just like snapping back or something saying you're wrong. That's ridiculous. Whatever. So, yeah, I think, I think you kind of have to have, you know, boundaries. Right. Because I know, I know a lot of couples that. that they're both very much on the same side of the political spectrum in that couple. And that works for a lot of people, but I actually really like the fact that my wife can question a lot of the things that I want to believe in,

that she comes at it from a whole different angle. Because again, she's not a super leftist, but she has definitely, you know, she has that, that, you know, that empathy for a lot of people that a lot, you know, they really attribute to people that are little lean a bit more liberal. And I'm, I like it. I actually like it. I really do like it. I feel like it challenges me and makes me think of things much better than if we were both just a hardcore right-wing couple and we only, you know, stayed in this bubble. Yeah. Yeah. I think Bobby and I have a lot of that going on where I'm like, let's, let's think about how people are going to feel about this. He's like, oh, there's no feelings in science. It's like, no, he doesn't say that. But, yeah.

But I'm thinking about how weird your life course has been. in the sense that how weird it must be for you. Yeah. I was like this picture of you with Richard Gere and you with Robin Williams and you commented the book like, what's happening? And you started in Florida

and you're out here bartending and stuff and the groundlings, which is a great move. And things start happening and all of a sudden you're a Kennedy. To me, that's the part that's like... That's the part where we were like, huh? I go, that's the part where I go,

that's gotta be weird. It's one thing to have all this accomplishment and it kind of weird it happens. You kind of see it. But now you're a part of history. And it's like, well, you were hanging out with Ethel Kennedy, you know. That's true.

You're in hiatus boards. Yeah, that's true. You're in history. That's what that was. I mean, I don't mean necessarily because your husband's HHS secretary, you're making history. I mean, you were engaged with the historical...

American history. This is a historical family. I mean, and you comment throughout the book, like, what's happening? It's weird. But you didn't say that about this part. That's where I was like, this is the weirdest part. Oh, about the Kennedy part?

Yes. And it's so funny. That didn't seem that weird to me. You know, and probably why, and I talked right in the book too, is I had no ideas about the Kennedys. I did not grow up. We didn't grow up in our household. Like, think about the Kennedys.

What would the Kennedys do? I want to dress like the Kennedys. There wasn't a big political thing in your family either. Yeah. No, I say it there, too, that one time when I was pretty young, I asked my mom who she voted for, and she said, that is nobody's business. I was like, oh. I kind of like that. I know.

Let's get back to cracklin Rosie's way of thinking. Crackland Rosie is funny. I just admitted that I voted for Trump. Don't tell anybody. I think it's too late. Yeah, Susan. I think that's over. It didn't matter in California anyway.

That's the point. That's the point. I said it doesn't matter who I thought for. Yeah. questions for me, because I geeked out a pretty good here. No, I love, no, I've loved talking to you. I really love talking to you. And I love the book, and I love spending time with it.

And it's like spending time with you, this book. And I think that's what you're kind of going for. Yeah, I wanted to feel like I'm telling a friend, can you believe this happened? Yes, that's what it felt like. There were moments where you're just, wait, you're right, because there are moments where I, I just, you know, take a second and ask myself,

but is this really happening? Yeah, yeah. And then, no, it's funny that you say that it was marrying the Kennedys because that did not feel like for me. I noticed that you didn't comment on that. That's the part, like, if you, if you look at the full arc, it's like,

you're like, that part. Not that part? Would not have, if somebody were writing a screenplay about your life, they wouldn't do that. They would stop with the Larry stuff probably. Yeah, and be like the end. And the Robin Williams and everything. And then Robin Williams, but yeah, no, no, I think it was the,

running for president part. Oh, by the way, I remember you saying something that was not in your book. I don't think it was here. I must have seen you on another interview show where they were like, well, how do you feel about him running for president? And you were just like, not my idea, not great,

but I want him to do his thing. And he wants to do his thing, he should do his thing. I have not been sitting around like, gosh, I'd love to be first lady. But you also weren't expressing resentment or anything. at him having done so. You're just like, I see how good he is at this, and I want him to do his thing.

And it's a lot, and it's a lot. Let's not lie. It's a lot. But yeah, of course, I mean, talk about regrets. That would have been a terror. Who wants that regret to tell your husband or your spouse? I do not want you to do the thing that you think you need to do right now. That would be me, though.

She's already done that a couple times. I'm very honest about it. He would have been a rock singer right now. No, people come around for Congress and governor and governor. Because we wanted to solve problems in California. Right. We got to solve a problem. And I'm like, we do.

I got to do something. They wanted me to start raising money. And I'm sort of open to things, even though I don't want to. Yeah. And she goes, no. And then I said, yes, because I was so pissed at Newsom that week. And then I said, no again. And then it.

It's a life change. Yeah, I mean, I get that you're a public servant and you have to give your life over to that. And I just think in our life. right now where we are we need to do some more stuff he needs to have his voice out there and do it in a way that where he can talk about whatever he wants yeah that's important to actually when i met bobby i asked him i said are you know you've never thought about going into politics and he said no i'm an environmental attorney and i you know it's nice not having to be beholden to a corporation a company um even in government you know

it's hard to accomplish the things that you want to accomplish because other forces are involved. So I was like, great, I love that. You never have to worry about you going into politics. Yeah. Okay, I have a question. Because I really admired your interview on The View. And I, you know, we, Drew does Gutfeld all the time.

And, you know, they really talk shit about them all the time. But. And let's remember, I've done The View 50 times. Right. And Jenny McCarthy, you forget, used to be a one of the other. You used to be a darling on the view. Yeah, I used to be a lot of time. He's now not.

But, and it's okay. Would you go on or they didn't have you? But I want to know how it felt walking into the lion's den because they were all very appropriate with you. It seemed in the clips that I saw, like they look like they were actually listening to because they admire you. You know, you're all actors and they admire you and everything. But what does that feel like now going into that? because you don't know what to expect. Yeah.

You know, it was, I feel like I'm, I know a lot more clearly now. Just as far as Bobby is concerned and what Bobby does and what some of the misconceptions about him are. So I know what those are and I know now how to address them. So I don't need, I didn't feel like I needed to. What are they just because I have to address them two once in a while? Well, for one, because when I went to his Senate hearings,

the senators were coming at him saying, you are not a doctor. Yeah. They still say that. And I can't think of an HHS secretary that was a doctor. There's one in the last 20 years. Yeah. They were only three.

And none of them were when there was a Democrat president. So it's never been a requirement. it's unusual for one to be a doctor. So, but when, you know, when I'm sitting there looking at these senators coming at him saying, you're not a doctor, like it's a bad thing and, you know, accusatory. And it's so then when I go home and do my research and I'm looking at them and I'm looking at, oh, this person was an economist. This person was a governor.

This person was a politician. It's like, wow, Bobby is a lot more qualified than. Almost all of the people on that list. There was only one senator that had something important to talk about, and that was Rhode Island. He was talking about the end of life care and the expansive end of life. Yes.

And I was like, that is a valid thing and that he is bringing up an important topic and he did in a collaborative way. I'm like, go towards that guy. That guy knows who he said. The rest of him are just bullshitting politicians. No, they just want, they... It's very theatrical.

They want to get there. So it's things like that. That's a misconception that people feel like he's not qualified because he's not a doctor. That is false. Well, what he is, what he does well, I'm going to come to, because I come to his defense frequently too, he knows how to read scientific literature. Yes. And that is a very important skill.

Yes. And he's familiar with the landscape, with the literature. And so. Good reader. Yes. And that's what I. It's a certain skill, though, reading scientific literature. No.

And because he has been involved in so many lawsuits where it is complicated. It's complicated. that there are toxins in, you know, water supply or that, you know, Monsanto with Roundup, there's a lot of science involved in that to be able to prove that they, that a corporation was wrong, that they did it, knowingly did it. There's a lot of science involved, and he does know how to read that, and that is part of his background. That's why the view, you know, when they come at me saying he's at least qualified, it's

like, actually he's not, and here's why. So it's the things like that. And also, it's nice that he's been in office for long enough to have really accomplished some great things that everyone should be happy about. I don't know who's, I don't know how anybody, the women on the view, Americans, who is not happy about having petroleum-based food dyes taken out of the food supply. having some of these toxic ingredients taken out of food dyes. You know, Operation Stork, is that what they call it? You know, they're focusing on... Fertility.

Baby formulas and getting toxins out of baby formulas. But yeah, fertility. IVF just came up and the president just said we are lowering the prices. So who is it? $50 billion for rural hospitals. And the Democrats are trying to take that away as part of this shutdown. Well, that's shocking. Part of the narrative.

So they'll say, well, you're taking it away in this way. And then, you know, the Republicans will say, well, we're giving $50 billion this way. But it's not, you know, it's not a conversation. Ugh. But so, so the answer, the long answer is, I felt good going into that interview. And I felt like, it's okay. Whatever they ask me, they can ask me. And I did appreciate.

It was funny because at the end, Whoopi said, will you come back again? And I said, really? Really? I can't wait. Oh, but they were, you know, they clearly had questions. They wanted to ask me.

And sometimes they didn't like the answer. Oh, just like vaccines. And, you know, when I said, you know, there's a vaccine in. injury compensation program. C-sive. Yeah, that's five point, well, that's actually just for. Prep, the PrEP Act.

Well, you're talking about the VERS stuff. I'm talking about the, yeah, the vaccine injury compensation program. What I do want to say, because I didn't know this at the time when I was on the view, because what he said is that is that only for COVID vaccines. anybody who's been injured by a vaccine. And you took shit for not knowing all that too.

No, no. They were, I said, I think so, but I don't know. But now I know that doesn't even include COVID vaccines. There's a different program for COVID vaccine injuries. So they've, so they've, they've paid out $5.4 billion in vaccine injuries. And that's not including COVID injuries. So that's another program that I'll learn. more about and then the next time I talk to him. You have a lot to learn it from all these things.

Aaron's Siri's got all of that stuff. Oh, Aaron's Siri. He can tell you about it. Oh, yeah. He is, he's got, he's got it all. He knows what he's working with Bobby closely or they should be working together. I mean, I think they, listen, Bobby has a lot going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't see Aaron all the time. I see him every now and then, but I'm sure Bobby's working with him and talking to him. They're just always aware of each other. Oh, absolutely. When people say, you're not a medical doctor, you don't have the right to talk about something, there are a lot of medical doctors who only know what they do in medicine. They're not able to grasp all these things as an attorney. I want to refine it even more. They're either in their narrow field of medicine

or they're not practicing medicine or never practice medicine. Right. So just being a physician is not quite enough. It's not enough. Yeah. And they also are too sensitive and they won't talk. And, you know, like, I didn't want you to be governor of California because I knew that everything would freak him out. That's true. He's got a lot of Larry David in him. I've told you that before. Oh, this is going to be a full insult episode.

It's not going to be fun after the show. Honey, all this stuff. We need to talk. I know, really. I'm trying to have fun. Full insults. Listen, you have been very generous with your time. Thank you so much.

And so as the audience. So on behalf of Cheryl, Go get her book. There it is a full screen. I have a great time with it. You will have a great time with it too. If you like Cheryl, you will like the book.

It's that simple. And I feel like I jumped around kind of because I was fan-boying, but also because I don't want to give away the full arc, because you really do a good job of starting at the beginning. Thank you.

And in Florida and with your family and getting out here. And there's a... I just didn't know all this. Of course. You never know somebody's origin story until you find it. It's a wonderful story.

and as I said, it ends up being a candidate. It's crazy. And it ends up being a Kennedy case. I know. I end up on Hyannis for it. I mean, what the hell? No, the people are like, why did you change your day? It's the moment you got married.

And I was, I made my name as a high and so it's like, I don't need to change it. Crazy life. Yes, it is. But it's been good. And you're expressed a lot of gratitude also. And as I said, there's been lots of loss and things in there that, you know, that is important for all of us. I mean, it's just part of the human experience is that loss and grief. Did I say Harry David? No, you said Larry David. I did. Okay. Okay, good. You insulted me enough. Don't worry. You're

insults me. They landed. Don't worry. They were free and clear. They're laughing at the joke not telling me that I use the wrong name. So, you know, I'm old. So I sometimes get things mixed up. I didn't hear Harry. I did not. But who knows, I might have superimposed Larry in my head. Okay. Okay. Okay. But who knows, I might have superimposed Larry in my head. Okay, but we'll let you get. We've kept you well into the rush hour time, which makes me feel guilty. But we appreciate you being here very, very much. Thank you for having me. Congratulations on the book.

Is there anything else we missed? Anything else you wanted to talk about? You covered it all. And I thank you for reading it. I really thank you for reading it. Well, I, not only do I try to read stuff, oftentimes I end up reading the books after I talk to the guest, which is sort of more to my benefit,

because I then know what I want to look for and what I'm reading about. But in your case, I was already angry that people didn't seem to be paying attention to the book. And I thought, I bet this book is really good. And it was. And so I wanted to give it its full due. Thank you.

You want to give a little shout out to the Maha organization that is on, that you guys do that, you know, you have a weekly meeting that Caleb produces my producer. Oh, I don't know what she knows about that. Caleb, maybe you want to mention it. Yeah. She's on sometimes. Yeah. I just recently, I guess the last three episodes, I've been producing the Maha Action Media Hub. It happens weekly on Wednesdays.

It's a great call. Yesterday we had all sorts of people. We had everyone from Dr. Oz, Dr. Redfield. We had Russell Brand, of course, Tony Lyons. Just a list. I think there were 13 speakers on yesterday. So do go and look it up. It's mahaaction.com.

It's great because you, oh, I don't want to step on your, say the website again. It's mahaaction.com. Yeah. But it is really great because you do hear from different voices about what, we've accomplished what we're working on, what, you know, if there's a call to action, what you need to do, what you can talk about. But it's, and it's pretty fun.

We have some interesting personalities on there. And you have Oz on there once in a while. And he's another guy I have to defend all the time too. Because people do not understand who that man is. I know. He was the chairman, the head of the cardiovascular surgery department at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital. That is top, top, top, top, top.

A renowned surgeon. Yeah, for years, and then went on and did something else. Yes, and then people. You're terrible. How dare you? People. So, you know, so any event. Caleb, we want to throw up, we have Redfield coming in here, I think, Tuesday.

He's making the round for some reason. I wonder what's going on. Is he writing a book himself? Larry Elder, who created Dave, Dave Rubin, Redfield, Saltie Cracker in an early show. Chloe Carmichael is a psychologist trying to get, trying to free up psychology training. You'd be amazed what's going on in psychology. psychological schooling. It's...

Scary or good? Scary. Essentially, the conceit that has captured a lot of psychology training is if you just could figure out how colonizers are abusing you or exploiting you, then all your psychological problems would go away. Oh, boy. Yeah. So someone's definitely abusing.

And so we're not teaching psychology. We're teaching some sort of weird anthropology, but anyway. We will get into all that. when you're not around. You have to come back, though. I'm going to get back. Yeah. And also, if you guys, if he runs for president again, I'm voting for you.

Oh, is he thinking about doing that? No. I think he was so happy doing this. Okay, then I will pray for you that it doesn't happen. Listen, yeah, yeah, he has no intention of running. So let me give you some more on Cheryl. Her Cheryl Hines on X, waterkeeper.org. Tell him about that.

Well, I love a waterkeeper. where they protect waterways around the world, make sure big corporations aren't polluting waters and that we have clean, drinkable water. I did not mention cerebral palsy out and that whole story, there's a big story there that, that broke my heart that whole part. That one got through to you too.

You exposed a little more and that is UCPCFL. Yes, so that's United Serbal palsy, Florida. That's my biggest connection, but I love UCP, you know, across the nation. Any UCP can get involved with. It's great. People have grave misconceptions about cerebral palsy. For the most part is just motor dysfunction. It is nothing to do with what the person's experiencing or who they are or what their intellect is. But people recoil in weird ways because of it. And think that they are not capable of more than they are. Yep. What's that, Susan? Okay, we're going to get going.

We're going to get the wide shop back once more. Let's see we get it. We'll wave goodbye at this. There it is. Okay, that camera, two of us, Cheryl, thank you for being here. You know, bits further. They're still not going to give it to us.

We're going to go this way. It's fine. It's fine. Thank you. Thank you for everything. Thank you for curb. I love it. Thank you for coming all the way out here.

Thank you. And I hope we'll talk to you again soon. Thanks. Bye, everybody. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. Emily Barsh is our content producer. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only.

I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in an immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255.

You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at doctordo.com slash help. Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded, so you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you, like T-time U. Or this T-time U, or even this T-time U. Said you hear about Dave?

Or even T-time, T-time, T-time, T-T-time U. Mmm. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. It's time to be great.