Ask Dr. Drew - Chief Lockdown Architect REVEALED: Jeffrey A. Tucker Discusses w/ Dr. Kelly Victory – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 174

Episode Date: January 30, 2023

Research does not support mass lockdowns in a pandemic – but in 2020, health officials across the world convinced governments to shut down most of their populations and economies with stay-at-home orders. Who led this unscientific lockdown campaign, what were their REAL motives, and how can we ensure it doesn’t happen again? Jeffrey A. Tucker, founder of the Brownstone Institute, discusses LIVE with Dr. Kelly Victory. Jeffrey A. Tucker is Founder and President of the Brownstone Institute. He is also Senior Economics Columnist for Epoch Times, author of 10 books, including Liberty or Lockdown, and thousands of articles in the scholarly and popular press. He speaks widely on topics of economics, technology, social philosophy, and culture. Follow him at https://twitter.com/jeffreyatucker and https://brownstone.org/. 「 SPONSORED BY 」 • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get 10% off with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. Hundreds of millions of people have received a COVID-19 vaccine, and serious adverse reactions are uncommon. Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician and Dr. Kelly Victory is a board-certified emergency specialist. Portions of this program will examine countervailing views on important medical issues. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 WITH DR. KELLY VICTORY 」 Dr. Kelly Victory MD is a board-certified trauma and emergency specialist with over 30 years of clinical experience. She served as CMO for Whole Health Management, delivering on-site healthcare services for Fortune 500 companies. She holds a BS from Duke University and her MD from the University of North Carolina. Follow her at https://earlycovidcare.org and https://twitter.com/DrKellyVictory. 「 GEAR PROVIDED BY 」 • BLUE MICS - Find your best sound at https://drdrew.com/blue • ELGATO - See how Elgato's lights transformed Dr. Drew's set: https://drdrew.com/sponsors/elgato/ 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to today's show. It is our distinct pleasure to welcome Jeffrey Tucker, amongst other things, founder and president of the Brownstone Institute, senior economic columnist for Epoch Times, author of 10 books, Liberty or talk to him about some of the things that went down that we've been learning about, talking to some of the players on this show. And particularly, we're going to look at Dr. Birx's book and some of the thoughts that she had. Jeffrey Tucker is here with us, as well as your calls and you guys, of course, on Restream. Let me see if there's more. I can tell you, of course, Dr. Victory will be here with us as well. And we may even have time to take calls today. So we'll see what we can do. Let's get right to it. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography,

PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I'm a doctor for. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop, and you want help stopping, I can help.

I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. We'll be right back. A sportsbook worth a slam dunk. An authorized gaming partner of the NBA. BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario.

And so here we go today, as I said, Jeffrey A. Tucker, founder and president of the Brownstone Institute and senior economics columnist for Epic Times. Boyish, there's a lot for us to talk about. So let's welcome Jeffrey Tucker into the program. Such a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. It is our distinct privilege. So we, you know, Dr. Victory and I were sort of on a thread with you before the cameras and the mics heated up here, and we were unloading. We were, you know, we couldn't wait to talk to you. We've had so much on our mind that what you've been commenting on

is pertinent too. And I guess we ought to start with Dr. Birx's book and the sort of extraordinary lack of self-reflection as she marched through what she experienced during the pandemic. And let me just frame it by saying what we have learned by talking to many of the people that were in the rooms during the decision making of those early months, she sort of marched off by herself and was an evangelist and went around demanding that governors follow her precepts. What did you learn from the book? You say by herself. I think by that you mean without Trump's permission, without the Oval Office. Without the, without the, without, I don't think there was a coalition. There may have been her own little coalition,

but what we've heard is that there were a lot of people left behind going, what are you doing? Yeah, yeah. I don't know if it, if, if, if little or big, it's, it's not clear, but, but this much is true. She was gone rogue from the elected official at the United States at that time, on whose behalf she was working. It's still not clear. So it went like this. Matthew Puttinger of the National Security Council introduced Trump to Birx and said she's the perfect person for this role as the coronavirus task force coordinator,

right? And Trump said, okay, fine. Well, it came down time for the lockdowns. We're talking about like March, you know, the first week of March. She was already training to be the one to announce to Trump that the lockdowns would have to come. And so Xi was very tight with Fauci. On March 12th, they talked him into these travel restrictions on Europe and Australia and New Zealand. On March 13th, he issued the HHS order that was basically the lockdown order. It came out later in the New York Times. It was the first to publish it two months later. The weekend of the 14th and 15th was when Birx and Trump had their one-on-one, right? In the presence of the son-in-law,

anyway, and Kushner, and also- Yeah, Jared Kushner. Yeah, Jared Kushner and several other White House officials. And it was she who basically talked Trump into going into that March 16th press conference that basically ended the world, right? That was the Monday press conference in which Trump, whether he knew it or not, was issuing a statement that in the fine print that Brooks herself refused to read publicly and rather turned it over to Fauci to read, which said all places where people gather should be closed, which would include, of course, not just bars and restaurants, but churches and even homes and so on. So it was probably the most draconian issuance of an executive order in American history. In fact,

hands down, that's what it was. At that press conference, she was reluctant to read it because a reporter actually raised his hand and said, are you saying that all these things should close? And Trump said, well, we're not saying that yet. And at that moment, Fauci interrupts, motions to Birx, winks at her, says now's the time. She gets up to the microphone, changes the subject. Fauci realizes she's not going to do the thing, which is to announce lockdowns. That's what they're waiting for. Fauci then interrupts her. She gets like this nervous girl routine and says, well, he's my mentor. I have to let him talk. Fauci does the job. He gets up and says, you need to read the fine print on page two of the PDF.

The reporters are there, turn it over. They can't see it because it takes like a magnifying glass. That's where it says all places where people congregate should be closed, according to the CDC. Trump, meanwhile, is not paying attention. He's looking out at the audience. Somebody catches his attention and he does his little jazzy hands thing, waves at them like a politician does, gets back up to the microphone, rolls his eyes, and takes the

next question. That was the end of the world. That was it. And it was Birx that was tasked with doing it. Now, soon after that, after the first two weeks to flatten the curve, she was trying to figure out how they're going to get an additional two weeks. In her book, she says it was always a ruse. It was never supposed to be two weeks. It was supposed to be much longer.

That's all they thought they could get out of Trump. But in one occasion, after nearing the end of the two-week period, Trump announces to the—and you remember this, Dr. Drew—Trump announces to the nation, we're going to open up everything by Easter. Remember that? I do remember that. Yeah, if you look at the dating of it, that was long past the two weeks. Birx took that information and said, aha, he's open. He's open to an extension. So the American people heard that as like, oh, maybe we can go to church finally, you know, forget the First Amendment, maybe we can go to church. And they saw that as a heroic action. Trump wants to open up the economy again. Rethink this. What actually happened is that that was past the two weeks, and that was a signal to to Birx and Fauci, especially to Birx, that they had some

latitude and that Trump is open to an extension. So that's when they went to him and said, listen, Mr. President, we've gained so much in these two weeks of lockdowns. This has just been great. We've been able to manage the hospitals, get some more supplies in, get the ventilators to people who need them, and so on. We've been able to restrain the spread. If you open up now, it'll lead to disaster, and you'll be the fault of millions dead. So instead of asking for two weeks, which was what she was planning to do,

she changed her mind and said, let's ask for 30 days. You see? That's how and i in in that and i remember in that in the book she was also saying that how do i coerce this dude how do i not how do i present the data and ask for a decision from the elected official it was how do i coerce and manipulate to get this done as though again thus sayeth the lord what dropped from her lips and uh that that's the part that i find deeply disturbing and my recollection is what happened from there was trump said open by easter that's when she went to the governors and that's when my state locked down completely and never opened up again. Right. It was during that 30-day window, right?

So now she's flying around. But finally, Trump got sick of her. After he gave her that second approval, he wouldn't speak to her again. She was very hurt by this. Went to Pence and said, Trump's not speaking to me. What should I do? I don't know what to do. It was Pence that said, stick with the program.

Stick with the program. You need to keep going. You need to keep going. So he gave her protection while Trump refused to meet with her anymore. And he stopped going to the Coronavirus Task Force meetings entirely and stopped holding the press conferences. You remember after the bleach disaster, he stopped holding the press conferences. Well, she went full rogue with the backing of whom I don't know. She went from state to state to state to state, even going to Texas and persuading Texas of a mask mandate. And, you know, that's when the SWAT teams were going in

to arrest people for drinking beers in rural bars and so on. And so the only governor who absolutely refused to meet with her was Kristi Noem of South Dakota. So God bless her. Just banned her from the state completely. But otherwise, it was she who prolonged the lockdowns. Well, she and the Congress that are voting trillions of dollars in subsidies and so on. But Dr. Rue, from that point on, I think the best way to think of it is that Trump was no longer president.

He was a marionette at that point. Dr. Birx was, in fact, making all the decisions with Robert Kadlec and many other people having her back. A very strange time in American history. And then, of course, fast forward into the summer, we had the Black Lives Matter protests and that sort of thing, and then re-lockdown all the the way to the election and then the release of the vaccine following the election so that's a short history now burke's was our dictator and she was later caught as you recall having gone to see her her family and gathered with her many homes in the northeast

and define travel restrictions now it it seemed to me that, let me think what I was gonna bring up here. Well, the state to state part of it was the sort of egregious part. That's where the sustained lockdowns were carried out. I guess what I was gonna say was, the one thing I've learned during this, as it pertains to Dr. Birx and this being the de facto ruler of the land or determining

policy for the land, my understanding is the way our public health system is sort of set up in the eyes of the Constitution, there's room for that, which I had no idea. So it's not as though they were, in other words, we can argue about whether it really specifies that or not, but my understanding or what I've come to surprisingly learn is that public health officials in an emergency are given fiat authority. They assumed it. It's not clear whether they're actually given it. The Public Health Service Act of 1944 allows for a quarantine power under certain circumstances, mostly having to do with importation of animals that are infected or plants or that sort of thing.

It's rarely been invoked, but they took that and ran with it, especially the sanitation portion of that 1944 Public Health Service Act. And they used that as an excuse to make us wear masks and that sort of thing. But for the most part, it was a strange combination because, as you know, lockdowns were never part of the pandemic plans, right? They never were from the World Health Organization or the CDC or anyone else. But they had an unwarranted amount of discretionary power and they just ran with it to do things that nobody ever thought possible. I mean, I knew it could happen. I never believed it would happen, but they used every latitude of the law. And of

course, the courts couldn't meet because they were social distancing and shut down. So we couldn't actually, they weren't functioning. Nothing was functioning. The Bill of Rights was effectively abolished for a very long time. And schools were shut down. It was outrageous. The hospitals were shut down. Parking lots were empty. This is a very grim period. And this was also a period too too in which you couldn't freely travel from state to state because there were quarantine orders on all sides of the border. You remember this, right? I mean, you had to quarantine two weeks before you could leave the state. And dentistry was basically abolished for the better part of six weeks during that during that period um and as you say times never caught yeah crazy times and never before contemplated in the

history of medicine save maybe some 11th century venetian outbreak of plague where things went completely backwards by invoking this sort of thing. It was 12th century. But the fact is that the email threads now that are available thanks to all the FOIA applications suggest that FOIA and Burke sent a team to China. That team was completely hoodwinked by the Chinese counterparts, and they brought that home, and that's what convinced Burke and and and uh fauci to pursue

this this new never before thought of technique that was strictly speaking a political maneuver by the ccp the junket to china from february what was it 14th to about 26 maybe it's 15th to 26th is one of the least understood aspects of this entire thing, where Fauci sent his deputy assistant, together with a team from the World Health Organization, to go on a sort of Potemkin Village tour of China, where CCP showed them how well they did in controlling the virus.

And the World Health Organization issued a report on February 26th to all nations of the world saying China knows how to deal with the coronavirus. Everybody should copy this exact approach. And everybody agreed. You know, the Fauci's deputy assistant agreed with that. All the emails agreed with that. They sent it out to the world. I asked a person who really knows whether and to what extent the lockdowns would have ever happened without that report. He said, there's no way. That was the thing that decided everything.

If you look at all the Fauci correspondence between about the 26th and the 29th, he changed his mind about lockdowns. You remember that New England Journal of Medicine article that he wrote came out February 28th, but he had written that two weeks earlier. That was the one that said, this is going to be a bad flu year. Don't worry about it. It's not so bad. Remember that one? He had a decimal point error and he confused IFR and CFR in that paper, but nonetheless, it came out on the 28th. Well, it turns out he had already changed his mind about lockdowns by that time, because on February 26th, he wrote the 1980s sort of influencer actress named Morgan Fairchild. As far as I know, this is the first time Fauci

ever raised the prospect of lockdowns, wrote her a private email and said, alert your followers that lockdowns are coming. Do you remember that? And so Morgan Fairchild. I don't remember that. I don't remember that. She was the very first American. Yeah, Morgan Fairchild. Am I saying that?

Yeah, she's that Va Va Vumo actress from Dallas in the 80s. Yes, yes, I remember. They're from Falcon Crest, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, Falcon Crest. And she played Dottie on Pee WeWee's Big Adventure and the latter half. Anyway, the whole thing is just ridiculous. Oh, my God, that's true. And so Fauci knew her and said,

boy, alert your followers that lockdowns are coming. So that was on February 26th. On the 27th, Donald G. McNeil was on the podcast of the New York Times, which those days went out to two or three million people and whipped up disease panic. He came into the studio spraying hydrogen peroxide everywhere and saying that one in six of your friends is going to die from this virus, which reminds him, he says, of the 1918 flu pandemic. It's going to be much worse. And that day I knew that everything was going to go terrible. You mentioned the 11th century Venice, I think you said. Well, on the 28th of November, of February

2020, Donald G. McNeill wrote an article for the New York Times op-ed page called To Take on the Coronavirus, Go Medieval on It. So that's exactly what we did, right? He said, yeah, anyway. It was a grim, those were grim days. That same day, the New York Times read an op-ed by, of all people, Peter Daszak of EcoHealth Alliance, which we know now, was the recipient of a pass-through grant to the Wuhan lab, from which many people think this virus emanated as a lab leak. So there you go. And so from the 28th, that was the end of the world. That was when Fauci decided lockdowns were the way to go.

They had fully two weeks to convince Trump. Birx was tasked with doing the dirty work. And she did it, and she accomplished it, and then they were done with her, and her head is on a platter, and I don't know where she is now. But her book is a fascinating one. Sometimes I think I'm the first one to have read it,

because it had been out. She went to work with Biden, I thought. For a while, but she's not now. I thought she moved over to his camp during the... Not now. No, but she did after that. Yeah, she was fired in November. Maybe she worked for Biden for a little while.

Or she resigned in November. I mean, that's what I read. Yeah, being caught violating quarantine, that sort of thing. But now I think she works as a consultant for some air ventilation company or something like that. That's right. Her book is a fascinating study. It's called Silent Spread, I think is the name of it, right? And it all hinges on this idea that there was a long latency period

to the coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, which turns out not to be true. SARS-CoV-2 behaved very much like a textbook respiratory virus, a coronavirus. There are four. This is the fifth one. It has a relatively conventional latency period. But the thing is, Birx was speculating they had a long latency period as a way of kind of gaming

the normal trade-off you would have between severity and prevalence, right? In other words, a way to get everybody whipped up in a state of fear. Now, what's interesting about this is like, if you want to think about a virus that has a long latency period that's also lethal, what would you think of? You know, right? AIDS, HIV, right? And that is her entire history of infectious disease entirely formed through that aids period which had this unusually long latency period so that was the whole model she brought to pandemic control for what turns out to be just quite a normal respiratory virus, right? So it was a long model. Yeah, that will do what it does regardless of lockdowns. It will just, respiratory viruses just

do what they do. And it's interesting to me having been there responding to Dr. Fauci and his team during the HIV pandemic, he was a hero to me at the time. And I'm looking back now, you've shined a light on something for me that's another liability of having been so, I think, successful during that epidemic. But they used some of the techniques that they were using with coronavirus, which was fear. Do you remember? It's equal opportunity. Everybody's going to get this thing. High school students, you got to wear a condom because you're going to get it. I was part of the chorus. I was there. We were consciously using fear. Now and it was a very different technique than in today's media landscape number one of course the polarization just added another layer to that as well so they were using fear number one number two the issue of the latency they were very familiar with that and relied heavily on it uh and again the the the

simplicity of the messaging and the repetition of these simplistic messages made sense when there were three networks, but now they just mix looks like distortion and lies because people start to get their own information. They start to get multiple sources. They start to realize that this, they must not think I can handle the truth, which is indeed what was in their minds, I think, at the time. Also, the idea of disease avoidance and suppression. That's another thing that they had in common. So if it's AIDS, you really don't want to get AIDS. And we didn't rely on herd

immunity for AIDS, right? No, but to your point, we never, but we never taught, we never did public education about how to survive AIDS. Like there were so much things they, so many things they could have done to help people survive coronavirus, including something simple, like your state has bought monoclonal, your government has bought monoclonal antibodies. They're available everywhere. Get it from your doctor. You know what that is? Ask your doctor. Nothing about improving the outcomes. That's right. Crazy. Another factor that has in common with the age experience was the eventual realization that prophylactics were the best way of avoiding infection.

So that's what the mask was. MPIs were the prophylactics. Yeah. So everything is an analogy there. Also, I'll mention somebody else, track and trace. So track and trace was used with actually not a lot of success, but some plausibility, at least in the case of AIDS. So they transferred that over to the SARS-CoV thing, a common respiratory virus that everybody was going to get.

They were going to use track and trace. Do you know that I was just in Mexico? To get back into the United States, I had to report my whereabouts for the track and trace regime. This was last week. This is still going on. Oh, so I go from Mexico City to Connecticut, and I come back with COVID. They're going to track and do what? I mean, we're still playing these games.

And again, it's all from the AIDS experience. And it was all so poorly executed. I had an alpha or a delta. I had a bad COVID early on. And when I was sick, I reported it. And the public health, I got a call from public health and they went, anyone else exposed? I said, well, there's a few in my household. He goes, yeah, we'll let them know. Let those guys know that they're probably exposed anyway. So see you later. I mean, it was

just like, there was no formal tracking nor testing, no nothing. Just say, let them know they're probably going to get it. Thanks. I was like, what? And it was, by the way, it was like a 19 year old kid from the from the local public health department. It was the weirdest thing ever. I won't forget that as part of this either. Let me do something. Let me take a little break here. Can they do what?

Go ahead. Yeah, do what? Exactly. And then he'll get the same. What are you going to do once you know? Well, he'll get the same call. He'll get the same call from the 19-year-old going, have you had any contact with anybody? Yeah, maybe somebody at the grocery store.

All right, let them know. So, all right, we're going to take a little break. We're going to do some business here and we're going to bring Dr. Kelly Victory in to continue with Jeffrey A. Tucker. Again, it's brownstone.org. We can find Jeffrey's work and a lot of interesting stuff. His review of Dr. Birx's book is epic and I suggest you read it. We'll be right back. GenuCell has so many products that Susan and I love. Their XV Moisturizer locks in moisture, making dry spots a thing of the past, which is especially great with the colder weather, of course. And with the immediate effects too, you can see these results in as little as 12 hours, guaranteed or your money back. Susan loves GenuCell's vitamin C serum, the new deep correcting serum with lactic acid that hydrates your skin and reduces fine lines while preventing

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for the rest of the season. Use code Drew at checkout for an extra 10% off your entire order. That is genucel.com slash drew, G-E-N-U-C-E-L.com slash D-R-E-W. My guest is Philip Patrick. He is a precious metal specialist, trains at University of Redlands. He has spent years as a wealth manager at Citigroup, and his current position is with Birch Gold Group. So gold has always been somewhat of a safe haven, particularly in times of great turmoil. Much like our present moment, I imagine. Gold has always traditionally been a safe haven asset. Gold specifically has always been about wealth preservation, right? Gold has always held its buying power. You can look at as

far back as you'd like in history and biblical times one ounce of gold would buy somebody 400 loaves of bread. And today it does the same thing. So it's a store of value. But I would say in times like this, as you mentioned, it's particularly important when you're dealing with things like 40 year high inflation. You know, the air that's coming out of a stock market bubble. These times in particular tend to drive gold and silver up quite significantly. If things are different, the solution needs to be different as well. So I encourage everyone to get informed and we have a lot of good information here to help your

listeners. Just a reminder, I am not a financial advisor and I do not give out financial advice nor investing advice. Birch Gold has an A-plus rating with the Better Business Bureau, countless five-star reviews, and thousands of satisfied customers. Check them out now. Visit birchgold.com slash Drew and secure your future with gold. Do it now. Some platforms have banned the discussion of controversial topics. This episode ends here. The rest of the show is available at drdrew.tv. There's nothing in medicine that doesn't boil down to a risk-benefit calculation. It is the mandate of public health to consider the impact of any particular mitigation scheme on the entire population. This is uncharted territory drove indeed it has been yet we've been sort of charting our way through this uncharted territory for quite some time here dr victory welcome back with jeffrey tucker still

with us uh susan had something to ask caleb across the mic here before we uh proceed i guess there's a technical issue susan it's all working i don't see any comments comments from facebook but if you're out there we want your comments okay fair enough kelly have that terrific thanks so much for joining us i've really been looking forward to this conversation and i know that you and you and drew have covered quite a bit of it already but i want to stick for a few more minutes if you if you will with um this book by deborah burks uh and really her involvement in this whole debacle. And that's what it was. She is responsible for a lot of things, not the least of which is destroying my confidence in scarves for women.

I have a very nice Hermes scarf collection that I just can't bear to don. It's just laying fallow in my closet right now. I can't bring it out. In any event, I always thought prior to this book and frankly, to this conversation with you, that she was somewhat of a talking head. I don't think that she actually made any decisions of her own. I thought she was sort of the mouthpiece that stood up and regurgitated whatever Anthony Fauci told her to say. Is that not true? I get the idea that that's not really correct. Well, I don't know. I think she got religion at some point. She was a radical suppressionist and a serious lockdowner. She really wanted to make sure that nobody would ever get COVID. And the

only way she could think to do that was by enforcing lockdowns and masks and travel restrictions. There was no kind of draconian anything that was enough as far as she was concerned. She thought she was on the side of the angels. And she just flew around the country and passionately went from governor to governor, from public health office to argue for this. And I don't, I'm not sure, I don't think it was Fauci so much that was giving her the marching orders. I think she was acting not on her own, but somehow she believed in what she was doing. And she brags about it in the book, really critically. There's two or three moments in the book where she says, so you have to think back to those days.

The initial idea was to reduce the number of cases, right? So flatten the curve, Matt. Slow the cases. Slow them. Slow them and all the way to zero if you could. I mean, they convinced Trump that in two weeks you could get rid of coronavirus entirely, right? So that minimizing strategy was always her way of thinking. And so everything she could do to minimize the spread was just for her, just like a dogma, was something you would just do. But in order to inspire people of the need to lock down more, to mask more, to restrict more, to get rid of indoor gatherings and so on, and can't keep schools closed and everything else, she wanted to maximize the amount of fear, which came with sort of exaggerating the danger of the virus to everybody, which in those days was

easy to do because if you had PCR testing that was running at a very high cycle rate, you could generate what they called a case. Right? Sure. So we've had a huge, huge confusion all over 2020 and 2021, even now, between infections and cases, a long-established distinction in infectious disease epidemiology that we just threw out the window. So suddenly, every PCR-positive case was, for her, a danger, like this person's going

to die kind of thing. So it was left to her to constantly keep everybody whipped up in a state of fear. So now you have the Trump administration appointees, right? Trump himself and all of his closest advisors and all their appointees trying to claim that because of Trump's actions, things were getting better. You had Birx, on the other hand, trying to prolong the panic as long as possible. So every week, and she discusses this in her book and brags about it, every week on Monday morning, they would distribute, the Coronavirus Task Force would distribute a report

to all the public health officials in the country. And all the final data came in on Friday. She would wait till Sunday night, manipulate the data, change the data, rearrange the data, bury the news she didn't want people to hear, elevate the data that she did want them to hear, and send it out for approval Sunday night where she knew everybody was at the bars drinking. She did this for several months straight, and she brags about it in the book. She did this for several months straight, and she brags about it in the book. She openly manipulated and doctored those reports that went out to the states to create panic so the states would continue to lock down everywhere and still

maintain their disease panic and frenzy. She brags about it several times in the book. She calls it like subterfuge, subversion, I think is her word. Right, right. And she brags about it several times in the book. She calls it subterfuge, subversion, I think is her word. Right, right. And she writes about it. Yes. Amazing. No, it is stunning. In reading the book, there's an element of hubris where she really, with absolute, it just has no sort of concern for the fact that she did this, that she obfuscates the data, manipulates the data.

And frankly, there's a word for it when you are supposedly working at the behest of the president of the United States and you go out of your way to mislead him. And she acknowledges that. As you said, she acknowledges that when it came to the lockdown, that if they told, she knew if they told President Trump anything more than two weeks, that because he, and she even says this, because of his business acumen, he would understand what a critical impact that would have on the economy and he would never go for it. So she essentially says, so we lied to him and told him two weeks when we knew that wasn't the case. It's really remarkable.

And you may be correct that she is actually a zealot because she doesn't seem to have any concern about that. Well, she was sure that lockdown was the way, and she had no exit strategy. None of these people did, actually. I mean, you know, I remember in April, I remember I got a call from a, I don't know if you know a guy named Rajiv Venkalia, I think is his name. He was Gates Foundation virus head, and his history traces back to the Bush administration, 2005-2006.

He's the one who claims to have invented pandemic planning in the form of lockdowns. He called me in April and told me to shut up. I need to stop writing against lockdowns because I was one of, you know, there weren't many of us really, but I was writing against the lockdown and trying to say this is a disaster. It's going to create all sorts of unemployment and despair. It's going to create a public health crisis. People are going to turn to substance abuse. It's going to be a disaster and it's not going to get rid of the virus, right? That's what I was saying. And he called me up and said, you really need to stop writing this stuff. And I said, well, I'm not going to do that. However, let me ask you a question.

And what if the lockdowns work? Where does the virus go? Where does this virus go? I mean, does it just get scared of the politicians, scared of our social distancing, and go, well, I guess humanity didn't really like me. I better just go away now. I mean, what virus has ever done that of this sort? They had a vaccine fantasy, the vaccine uberalis. So it went from safety uber alice to vaccine uber alice.

And if the vaccine was going to rescue us, all we had to do was get there. You get there with as few fatalities as possible. And I get it. It was wrong. What's that called? Dr. Drew, you know something that I didn't know that at the time, right? I mean, we're talking about April, maybe it was May of 2020.

You know, I had heard about this idea that they're going to come up with a vaccine, but I, you know, I might have very old fashioned. I thought they would want to test it and that sort of thing. How dare you? Crazy, don't be crazy. Yeah, I don't know. So I figured it was going to be like five years off at the very minimum. So when the guy told me on the phone, I said, where does the virus go? He said, well, we're going to reduce the R-naught. You're mixing up cars in effect, dude.

You can't. I mean, let's say we all hide under our sofas and the R-naught goes down and down. I mean, once we come out from under our sofas, the R-naught's going to go up. I mean, what are you talking about? And he said, well, and it took a long time. He finally said, yeah, we're going to vaccinate our way out of this pandemic. And at that point, you're smarter than I am. You knew.

I didn't. I nearly dropped the phone. I said, are you going to vaccinate your way out of this pandemic? What, are we going to stay locked down for five years? Are you out of your mind? I couldn't believe it. He said, no, I think it's going to be a lot sooner than that. Well, at that moment, I thought I had heard everything. I just couldn't believe it, that they really thought that we're going to stay locked down until we get a safe and effective vaccine.

But see, I think this is where they really, the question really in my mind, Jeffrey, is whether or not they actually believed that any of these things worked. For example, if you take masking, we've known this isn't something that we discovered during COVID. We've known for decades that masks do nothing appreciable to stop the spread of respiratory viruses. Social distancing is a made-up construct. It doesn't exist in public health for controlling viruses. And there isn't anybody out there who could have passed Virology 101 without knowing, for example, that there isn't

a long latency period for respiratory viruses. I don't think that Deborah Birx could have possibly, either that or she's the dumbest person in her medical school class because this isn't- I think, guys, having lived through the opioid pandemic, when I saw how people deluded themselves about pain and opiates, when I was being demanded to give opiates to my heroin addicts in withdrawal because they didn't have a happy face for their pain assessment, that was insane.

And these people believed it, and they were evangelists. They were evangelical. Once scientists or physicians develop a religious orientation to their point of view, run everybody, that's how untold harm gets done. It's the evangelical that then gets a hold of the lay leaders, the public health, well, the governors, the press, and now it's on. And then those do the bidding of punishing any of the naysayers, any of the dissenting opinions. They don't have to, the public health doesn't have to do that anymore.

The press, the academic institutions, the state societies will take care of it for them now. And that was the playbook for opioids. And that is the exact line and verse experience we had with COVID. It's just extraordinary to me. I tell you what, I never would have believed what you just said, Dr. Drew. It's just remarkable to me that you can see this so clearly because in the early stage of lockdowns, I didn't believe for a second that this was in the end

really about the vaccine. I thought the vaccines were a fallback position to get us out of lockdowns. I never imagined the purpose of the lockdowns was to make the vaccine. I mean, that's just, you know, I mean, that's just like next level crazy. And certainly in the spring and summer of 2020, I never would have imagined such a thing. But you know, what's fascinating to me about all of this, of course, is that in the end, the vaccine didn't perform as expected. So, you know, that leaves us in a very strange position because, well,

basically a complete loss of trust in a massive industry and in public health, generally speaking. So it seems to me something of a calamity. And we're also left with a carnage, right? And there's no reason for us to go to the carnage. I mean, two years of lost education from kids, substance abuse, a public health crisis, obesity through the roof, cancer screenings missed, cancer through the roof.

You know, just a total public demoralization, a loss of respect in government, which Henry Kissinger predicted, by the way, in his Wall Street Journal article. I think it was April 1st. He said, if this doesn't go well, the loss of trust in government will be worldwide, and the world will be on fire. That's what he says. I don't know what to say. It did not go well. We're a different country now than we were three years ago.

I mean, let's just face it. This is a calamity. And if what you're telling me, it was all about wanting to deploy some experimental technology in the form of a vaccine for what is for most people very mild inconvenience. I mean, look, COVID is bad for me, but I'm of a certain age, right? But for most people, it wasn't anything like, it didn't warrant this kind of lockdowns. And that, so all this was all just kind

of an industrial experiment. Let me, let me, no, no, no. Let me put a different blush on it. Because I was willing to, I believed that our system would improvise their way out of it and figure out therapeutics and or vaccines. I knew how our system works. I believe by the end of the summer, we'd have solutions.

So to me, if people, you know, I didn't think the lockdowns would work. I didn't think they were necessary, but I thought I'm a good citizen. I'm going to follow what these leaders are doing. They're doing the best they can. They're planning for the worst case. I do believe there will be solutions, but the grave errors they made, now let's think about it. I hope I can tease this apart in a way that's sensible, was making it seem as though the risk was equal across all age groups. Okay? Now, the reality is the vaccines, we got to be able to hold two ideas in mind. The vaccines did help the older population. I'm convinced when the day is done, I could be wrong. Kelly thinks I'm wrong. But when the day is done, I believe we will have helped the people over the age of certainly over 75 with the vaccines, which was really the people at risk and the ones that we were alleging we were trying to save grandma. We were alleging them. But because we so overstated the risk to all the other population, the answer still had to be the vaccine for all ages. And now it has a risk reward ratio

that is completely upside down and completely different than for a 75 year old. And now we get into real trouble and they don't go back and say, you know what? We overstated the risk to all the 20 and 30 year olds. Maybe we shouldn't have done that. Sit by everybody. You're going to be fine. Instead they go, the risk is terrible i can't stand to see another person on a ventilator vaccine for everybody that's right it was all about the fact it was all about the vaccines without without a question go ahead jeffrey but if you go back to uh march 8th fauci's testimony before the house subcommittee on i don't know the virus or something, I'm forgetting about them.

But he was very interesting because he had every opportunity to explain exactly what you just said about the huge gradient of risk, a thousand-fold difference between the young and the old. We knew for sure, based on the Diamond Princess case and all the data out of China, we knew for the better part of our chance,

we knew for the better part of our chance, we knew for the better part of a month, the truth about the gradient of risk gradient of this. Fauci had every opportunity to say that in that testimony. He did not. You remember this testimony, right? We knew, yes, we knew the risk gradient of HIV early in that pandemic. And I don't think that has come from his mouth to this day. To this day. They tried to do the same thing with monkeypox. They tried to do the same thing with monkeypox. They were going down that path.

I mean, they were going down that path. Yeah, but I'm telling you, it's just criminal because in that testimony, that day, because everybody's like scared, right? This was March 8th. We're already gone through January, China's lockdown. Now we've got travel restrictions against you. Then we've got a whole month in February where Fauci and Farrar and the rest of these people are trying to figure out what they're going to do, what they're going to do because they're afraid of the lab leak. Now comes March 8th. Already Austin, Texas is canceled south by southwest by a dictum of the mayor and so now the Congress is like

Mr. Fauci can you tell us what's going on they're all white with fear and so he starts by saying and he waits into the Q&A so right his official prepared statement is a bunch of blather you can just throw out the trash like the rest of these government officials but during the Q&A somebody says gee can you tell us

like how risky do you tell us like uh how risky do you think this is like like how bad is this going to be and Fauci begins by saying well

the last uh uh coronavirus was SARS-CoV-1 and that was 2003 there were

8,000 people infected and 775 of them are dead. So that's a 10% fatality rate. And then he leaves it silent. Everybody's like,

no age gradient, no age gradient. Right. No. And then he goes on to say, now the data out of China that we're seeing today, which every year says, well,

they're lying, right? They've already got 10% in their head. It's like data out of China that we're seeing today, which every ear says, well, they're lying, right? They've already got 10% in their head. It's like, the data out of China that we're seeing now estimates at 3%. And so he's inviting all the Congress people gathered to think, oh, that's a lie. It's probably much worse because we know China lies. Then he goes on to say, well, you know,, once you include asymptomatic infections plus people with minimal symptoms—okay, so what are you talking about asymptomatic infections? Are you sick or are you not? We know what he's talking about, but they don't know what he's talking about. He says it could

bring it down to 1%. But if you think about the annual flu as having a mortality rate of something like 0.1%, that still makes SARS-CoV-2 10 times worse than the annual flu. So think about it that way. And he stops. At that moment, every face in the room is white. Everybody was terrified. That was March 8th. So he was already grooming the entire U.S. Congress to get into this panic lockdown mode. And as you say, in that testimony, not one word about the age gradient, not one word about the risks to the elderly people. And we know what happened after that. Of course, they shoved COVID patients into the nursing homes,

killing God knows how many people. But it was an outrageous testimony. It went over to the press then. Then it bled over to the press. Somebody came up to me. I was working in a newsroom at the time at a local television show. And one of the news directors came up to me and said,

this is an extinction event, right? This is the extinction of humanity. I was like, you're a news person. Are you, what? Are you, I said, no such thing. Not even close. And that's what they had in their heads. So back to where we started this, Kelly,

you were talking about whether Berks believed it. I think they believed it. I think there was cognitive dissonance going, running amok. I think they convinced themselves of this stuff and they were going to save the world. And that was it. You're more generous than I, because I will tell you, it was clear to me from the very beginning. I mean, I said literally the second week of February, I said, this is insanity.

You know, this concept of wearing masks, social distancing, the talk about lockdowns, asymptomatic spread. I said from the very beginning, February of 2020, I said, this is absolute insanity, people. I said, you could not have passed virology 101 and you don't have any background in public health because the risk benefit calculation is off on all of this. I said, furthermore, it was the therapeutic nihilism on top of that. We aren't going to talk about the things we knew by the second week of February that vitamin D deficiency was strongly connected with a poor outcome. We knew that obesity, we knew that all of these things, yet we couldn't talk about any of that. And if it truly was about public health, they would have been at least at the same time, coincidentally, you know, hammering home on those things, but they weren't. Instead it was. You would think, like I said, monoclonal antibodies, all the things you can do for yourself. But Kelly, I'm going to sort of lead you as the witness for

a second. And Jeffrey, apologies for the language I'm about to use. Kelly has something called the unfuck it bucket. And I want Kelly to focus on that for a minute. What can we do to unfuck it? We're all three of us are in agreement about what we're looking at here, save some nuances and stuff, but how do we unfuck it? Yeah, just to give you a little bit more background on that, since you just got caught off guard, you know, I was talking about the, that it's important to have bucket number one on the data and to continue to focus on the data as we know it with regard to these vaccines. Number two is my accountability bucket. And I do think that accountability, real accountability is critical to ever healing and moving beyond this. And that's a discussion by itself for a whole day. And then my third bucket was the, how do we unfuck it bucket? Because there's no time for

a victory lap as much as I would like to do one, given how I was treated during this thing. And to run around and say, I told you so. There's not time for that. We have got to put every smart mind at how do we fix this? Because otherwise, we are looking at a tsunami of illness, suffering, and premature death. So where do we go from here? How do we do that? It takes leadership. I think it certainly does.

And you know what it also takes? It takes a little bit of honesty and a little bit of humility. Like if we could start there, I would be so happy. If we could just all the people who were attacking me for three years now and were urging, you know, lockdowns and masks and vaccine mandates and school closures and everything that has just been such a disaster and told choirs not to sing and, you know, all these. And if we could just get a little humility and honesty, just like all you have to do is maybe just send a tweet and go, yeah, you know, I got carried away. And there were a lot of victims and I was really wrong. And it turns out a lot of things I believed were not true. It turns out that if I'd done a little

more research, even in the early days, I could have known about the age gradient risk. I could have tailored my advice a little bit better. I could have had a little more compassion for my fellow human beings than I had. In fact, I really just fell prey to disease panic, and a lot of my advice was really wrong. And I'm sorry if I contributed to harming so many people and demoralizing so many people. And I'm sorry about what happened to the education of your kids. I'm sorry you couldn't attend your grandmother's funeral. And I bear some responsibility for that. This was a very tough time as a public intellectual, as a doctor, as a medical professional, as a public health official. I had responsibilities. I completely failed. I forgot about the working classes. I didn't care about the people I was

shoving in front of the viruses. I forgot there were people that had to keep society running while me and my friends hid under the sofa, and I recommended you do the same thing. I knew the mask didn't work. I recommended them anyway. That was humiliating for you, and I'm sorry. Like, just write something like that. We could get all these people, and we're talking about quite a lot of people, to just admit that they were wrong. Right. That would begin the healing process. We need that as a country because we know that they were wrong. We know that.

Right. know that they were wrong. We know that. And unfortunately, physicians, I hate to tell you, are leading the charge in having been wrong. My own colleagues have a lot of accounting to do. I have really said, I think everybody involved in this, from public health officials to politicians, people in big tech, people in the mainstream media, every governor needs to, and every physician needs to answer three questions. What did you know? When did you know it? And what did you do about it? Because I'll tell you right now, people have got to answer to that. And as you said, there is no forgiveness without contrition. And at this point, we have had zero contrition. And then the question really, but these all go into my accountability bucket. The issue about how do we rally the troops,

given how divided we are now, to actually put people's minds to how do we fix... Hundreds of millions of people took these shots. I can't even call them vaccines. Hundreds of millions of people are in the ongoing experiment, because that's what it is, of these mRNA injections. They aren't FDA approved. We don't have a lick of long-term data about them. And we are seeing, you know, mounting evidence of severe adverse events.

How do we find, number one, get them to pull these things from the market at a time when, you know, Kathy Hochul's saying that, you know, she still won't let healthcare workers back to work if they're unvaccinated. And the amount of ignorance is stunning. But how do we get them pulled? And how do we actually redeploy resources, every resource, medical resource to say, how can we help all of these people who are facing potentially some pretty significant downstream medical issues? I hate to say it, but the damage is done. It's so sad to say that. But what's happened has happened.

And it's terrible. It's terrible. Scott Adams said this the other day on Twitter. I don't know if you noticed, but he said, look, you you know i like him because even though he mischaracterized our position he said we were right because of a coin toss and said several other insulting things nonetheless yes uh he was willing to be held to account for and it's taken him several days and actually each day he gets better at it i don't know is there some sort of thing that goes in a person's mind when she realized he was wrong yes is it yes no no he is well no no he is he is up to something and he's he is trying to get people a persuasion move where he brings people into realizing

that you'll see i i see what he's doing well what did did he say? Well, I was glad he said that those of us who aren't vaccinated are the winners, but I was a little bit offended that, as you said, Jeffrey, he suggested that he's very smart and he used his advanced analytics, and for some reason they led him astray, while I was just sort of a knee-jerk, distrustful of the government. And therefore, I just chose right this time. That's what I heard. It's a persuasion move to get people... It's a persuasion move to make people realize that you were right. That's it. You were right. That's where we're going to end up after all the craziness.

I hope you're correct about this, Dr. Rue. But, you know, he did say something that I found terrifying. He said he has to live with the rest of his life knowing he took these shots that he didn't really need. And he doesn't understand this experimental technology. What is this going to mean for him in three years, five years, 10 years? That is a terrifying thought.

And I can just tell you, being on this end of Brownstone, and by the way, I never wanted to get into this vaccine area. It's not my area. I have no training in it whatsoever. I don't like it. It's too controversial. I'd rather just focus on lockdowns and masks, right? But there's no avoiding it.

So we got into the, and you follow Brownstone, you know what we're getting. So I've had to do this just because the adverse effects are just so overwhelming and it's part of public health. So yes, I'm addressing it, but I get floods of emails every day. Like, how do I get unvaccinated? What can you give? What treatment can you? It's like, that's something I don't, I can't do this.

You know, this is not what I do, but it's tragic. It's deeply, deeply tragic. I don't think we can undo the damage, but you know, know, the question, so I think we need the healing. We need the honesty and we need the humility. Okay? That's step one. Let's get there. Then the question is how do we prevent this from happening again?

And I'm afraid at this point it's not about getting some new president who's going to get the right appointees into HHS, CDC, and NIH. That is not going to get the right appointees into HHS, CDC, and NIH. That is not going to work. They'll be chewed up alive, like on the spot in the first hour of their job. We cannot do that. We need dramatic reform. NIH needs to be devolved to six different regional areas or whatever. And they need to go back to doing what they're supposed to do, which is funding research that the vaccine company is not willing to pay for because there's no profit in it, right? So therapeutics and serious medical research. Let's get back to that. That's what public health is supposed to be about. CDC, I don't know what to say. I mean, is there any hope for it? I think

it's been permanently discredited, right? So if we get somebody with a clear head in office and a clear-headed Congress, and this shouldn't be a political show, but I don't see any purpose for it whatsoever. Look, at what point are we just going to say, let's unplug this beast and start over again with good public health principles? I think that's essential. I also think we need to revisit fundamental things like the 1944 Public Health Services Act that gives the federal government the quarantine powers. Now I know, Dr. Drew, you've probably got a lot of good ideas on how to use the quarantine power under various conditions. If this happens, this happens, this happens.

The point is this power has been massively abused. And under those conditions, I just think we just need to take it away. We just need to get rid of the quarantine power, like forever. They should not have this right. They've abused this privilege that they were granted under this weird 1944 Act,

conditions of passage of which I do not understand. But let's just get rid of it. I mean, the government has abused this power. We've learned that individuals and their doctors and medical professionals working with actual patients based on their own knowledge and experience could do a much better job of mitigating diseases and pandemics and dealing with infectious disease than these centralized health officials, to say nothing of national security officials that somehow got hold of the process this time. So let us learn to have truth, have honesty, let's have humility and the courage to admit error, and then reform the system in a way that's consistent with human rights, compassion, good science, and good therapeutics and good doctor-patient relationships. That's, you know, that's to me, that's a small

program, but it's the essential program. If we can't do that, we're just toast. No, I think it's critical. One of my greatest concerns, truly, as someone with a long background in public health, is what is going to happen the next time? Because there will be a next thing. It may not be a next pandemic. It may not be a viral outbreak. But there will be something at which time we need people around the globe to heed our call to arms, whatever it is, and to pay attention.

And at this point, the average person thinks, y'all are a bunch of rubes. I'm not paying attention to anything you say. You are 100% wrong. You let us all down a path of suffering and destruction. And so I think we have undermined the public's trust and confidence, not only in vaccines, but in public health in general. And it's going to take a long, long time to regain that. So I think blowing up some institutions like the CDC is really going to be critical to regaining that trust, unfortunately. Another thing I do want to ask you about, just because I think you've got such great insights, There's some things that we are now become inculcated to our entire, you know, society that I, that I fear are never going away. For example, I've predicted,

I don't think you are ever walking into your dentist's office, your doctor's office again, without people wearing masks. I think that's become, you know, I don't think you're going to ever get on an airplane when some flight attendant isn't going to hand you an alcohol swab uh and i think that things that went away some of the nice i like that like no some of the niceties you know like like cloth napkins or actually having a ketchup bottle on the table as opposed to some nasty little you know disposable paper thing our quality of life i guess is what you still can't get a lime in your in your vodka soda kelly you still can't get a lime in your vodka soda and i'm not sure that's ever coming back some of the stuff what is this vodka soda issue the lime you mean at at on on airplanes in a plane yeah because there's some airplanes it spreads covet i guess i have no idea It was something that they got rid of during COVID. And that's what it's a problem.

COVID is the excuse. Right. And after the 1918 pandemic, which happened for a variety of reasons, no reason to talk about it here, but there were basically 10 years of disease panic that followed, right? Everybody got freaked out about germs.

Everything is infectious. Everything is disaster. I'm surrounded by people who are trying to degrade my immune system, you know, and degrade my health and kill me. And that prepared the way for basically for eugenics programs to become very popular in the United States. That was a fallout from the disease panic of 1918. God willing, we'll avoid that. I don't know. But, you know, even as late as 1929 when we had the parrot flu scare, we'll avoid that. I don't know. But even as late as 1929, when we had the parrot flu

scare, we were still freaked out. And all sorts of governments up and down the East Coast ordered the slaughter of parrots in people's homes because they were afraid they were spreading disease. So these kinds of disease panics are a disaster for civilization and for our social functioning and for our rationality and for good treatment of medicine. That is why the New York Times, a good public health for a century following 1918, systematically avoided these kinds of public panics and these scaremongering taxes because they know that people just lose their minds and they stay with lost minds for like a decade after. And that's why in 57, 58, the New York Times said, calm down. If you get sick, see your doctor. Otherwise, we're going to get good therapeutics and vaccines and it'll go away.

Said the same thing in 68, 69, don't cancel anything. If you get sick, stay home in bed. If it gets bad, go see your doctor. That's the way they handled pandemics in the old days. And H1N1 in 2009, people went to Obama and said, oh, here comes a terrible disease. We better lock down. He said, look, guys, I just don't have any time for this. We're in the middle of a financial crisis. Go find somebody else to bother. That was the right thing to do. Well, we have an entire generation of kids now. We've got an entire generation of young people who have an inherent fear of others. You go to the grocery store

and they're swabbing the handle of the grocery cart with antiseptics and wearing masks. And I travel every week and it's the young families. It's the, you know, people in their twenties and thirties with little toddlers wearing masks and kids, you know, mommy saying, you know, stay away from those people. God help us as a society really, because I don't, we don't know yet. In second and third grade, we used to play cooties on the playground, right? And every society has its version of that, right? Okay, but that's what you do when you're eight

and nine years old, okay? But presumably, we graduate from that, we do things like read cell biology for dummies, you know, and we take cell biology in ninth grade. Hopefully we pay attention. We didn't, apparently. But we have played a giant game of cooties throughout the whole of the world, with the exception of like five nations. And that's going to be stuck with us.

And it's childish. It's dangerous. It's dangerous. It's pathological. And it's contrary to the science that we earned and learned over 100 years. We've got to reverse this. We need some good education. Thank you for your show, by the way.

But we need to have a much bigger audience. We've got a lot of damage to repair and get people back to an understanding that my mother had. My mother understood this. Her mother before her understood this. Her mother before her understood this. She knew that in April, I was going to go see my mother in Texas and I said,

Mom, I'm not sure I should come because I might give you COVID. She said, Well, there's a couple things about that. One is, if you give me COVID. She said, well, there's a couple of things about that. One is, if you give me COVID and I die, that is the fault of the germ, not yours. I love you, son.

Come see me. So God bless you, mom. That's sweet. I love your mother. That's awesome. Can I interject something that really pisses me off? Okay. I'm just going to say it. Okay.

This should be good. I love you because you're a journalist and you're doing something that is really right for the, for the country. When we saw your article, we said, we got to get this guy. If we could just take all the real,

like pro COVID vaccine people out of journalism, we'd probably get a bigger audience. I feel like we were really fighting against the media during this whole pandemic too. The stuff that they were putting out was scaring the shit out of everybody. Every day, remember when they had those killer hornets in Seattle? They were trying to scare everybody. Every day we could just find silly stuff and I don't know where it was coming from. Some of it was the Washington post, but,

and Susan, as you know, if I see the word grim or staggering again, I'm going to vomit. Right. And I think now we need to, the only way we're going to get the word out to the general public, not just the people that watch us and,

you know, or people, a lot of people in this world are in this country are are not able to watch youtube all day they're at work and they're they go home to their family and they feed their family and you know they don't they don't even know who dr drew is you know and there needs to be let out to a bigger audience i blame the new york times uh first and foremost because they started all this nonsense on February 27th, that stupid podcast with Donald G. McNeil. And then they followed up the next day with their article, you know, going medieval on the virus and so on. So the New York Times bears.

Also, the New York Times had a great, beautiful history in public health. For the previous hundred years, they did a respectable job during the parrots flu of 1929, where they said, stop slaughtering parrots. During the polio epidemics from 1940 to 1943, they were fantastic throughout that. They urged rationality and no closures, no public panic. They were great in 57, 58, 68, 69. They've been, during SARS-CoV-1, even, 2002, 2003, they were great. I mean, this has been everything. They've been responsible on every issue, but on public health, they've been very responsible for 100 years. They threw it all away. For what and why? And they've stayed with it. Today, my friends, today, they have run an op-ed by an author who regrets the fact that China got rid of its zero COVID policies.

That's what he says. He said the CCP protected its people for three years, and now they've thrown it all away by opening it up. This is what the New York Times today says. What are we going to do about terror? But knowing that people won't, I figured if you're going to read something, read Jeffrey A. Tucker's review of it because it was so well written. And I agree with Susan. I thank you for doing it and for being outspoken. You were on the front lines since very, very early on in this debacle. And I know you took the slings and arrows.

I know I did and certainly have, was kicked off social media, was off Twitter for more than a year. I just got back on, have had multiple threats against my medical license and continue to say that I would not do any of it any differently. I hope that you feel the same. I hope that you rest well at night knowing that you will end up squarely on the right side of history.

I'm happy. I was very much involved in the Great Barrington Declaration from the very outset of that whole thing and the release and the promotion of that thing. And my whole life fell apart after that. It's true. It's true. But whatever. Why are we here? We're here to tell the truth. I fell apart after that. It's true. It's true. But whatever, you know, why are we here? Yeah.

Uh, we're here to tell the truth, uh, uh, as best we see it, especially when nobody else is willing to do it. That's when you're called to speak out when everybody else goes silent. So what's your life? as,

as I have quote, I have quoted John Milton many, many times during this at that a virtue untested is no virtue at all. And you can live by that as well, because you certainly have been, you had a lot to lose. And it's when you have a lot to lose and you do it anyway, because it's the right thing to do.

So I appreciate you and thank you for being here with us uh for this i know that uh and please use us as as as an outlet if you have something that's uh outraging you please join us to talk about it we'd love to i'm glad to come back anytime but but my friends i know that sometimes people are exhausted this topic and and that's the thing and understandably. We're also exhausted of the things we're learning. The truth is grimmer than we even have to use your favorite word, grim. My word, by the way,

is unprecedented. I said I've used the word unprecedented more in the past three years than I did in the preceding 50. Unprecedented. used the word unprecedented more in the past three years than i did in the preceding 50 so in many ways are we have so much so much work to do there's so much things that have to be undone and so many things that have to be rebuilt i named uh the the institute brownstone because because my mother uh once again my mother observed that in the early part of the

19th century, the way we built up this great country was through the use of this great rock called the brownstone, which is malleable, and it was not expensive, and it's very durable, and it's what built all the great buildings throughout the 19th century before the age of steel made it so much easier. And she said to me that day, she said, we have to rebuild. We have to rebuild this country. We have to rebuild public health. We have to rebuild everything after this disaster. So Brownstone is the right name because that's how we built and we're going to have to rebuild. And that's where we are today. So we can't. What is your mother's name?

God bless her. Jan Tucker. Janice Tucker. We need some sort of Janice Tucker call to action. You know what I mean? Some sort of something. We'll see if we can get Janice Tucker as our figurehead. I just want to point out a couple of things just since we've surveyed this scene.

I feel like there's some stuff I just want to throw in if people say are watching this recording later. We've talked about the need to reduce EDC, redo public health. A couple of things on the public health side. It is almost exclusively populated by pediatricians because much of the public health policy on the state level is around vaccine. And pediatricians, lo and behold, I have found during this pandemic, are not trained or equipped to handle adult medicine,

particularly infectious disease. Their decision-making was off. Their judgment was wrong. The things they worried about, we wouldn't worry about in adult medicine. And it was really just a the wrong training for this particular for adult disorders number one number two there are non-clinicians throughout the public health world which is must end it must end that is disgusting they are not the people making decisions about clinical medicine it must end that must go and

then just a quick quick two quick thing couple quick things i had h1n1 and it was horrible it was worse than a bad covid and it was i was 10 years younger and it was horrible we might remember that one killed 300 000 people and the people of the united states did not even know it happened so we went from one that was horrible that killed 300,000 to one that was horrible, equally horrible, killed a million plus. One we shut the world down for, the other you didn't even know happened. Maybe there is a middle ground in the world of public health that we can sort of strike.

And then finally, as it pertains to the kids, I always point this story out because it's so vivid to me about how we forsaked children. They were so severely forsaken. When the Ukrainian moms were passing the border with their kids into Poland, there were microphones and cameras thrown in their faces. And I watched those interviews. And to a person, these women said, it's horrible. We had to leave our men, our sons, our husband. We'd let behind to fight. It's awful.

We have the guests. We have the kids with us. But more than anything else, these kids have been out of school for two weeks. Two weeks. We have to get them back in school. It's been two weeks. Then they put them into Polish-speaking schools because two weeks out of school was insanity. And yet we left them out for two years.

So that, that will stay with me forever. Dr. Drew, if you wouldn't mind on your second point, do you mean by that, that we have too many on your point about clinicians, do you mean to say that we have too many academics?

No. For instance, in the L.A. County, not physicians, have zero clinical experience. Sociologists, social workers, non-clinicians. They're doctors like Jill Biden's a doctor. Okay?

You know, you've got Dr. Barbara Ferrer in L.A. County who who is a social scientist. I mean, these are people who have, you know, the ability to, you know, I don't even know what, but certainly not make decisions about public health guidance. You know, and they're at the helm all over. It's It's terrible. It's disgusting. It's really a problem. Public health is, to be an official, to be a policymaker in public health, you think, requires some experience in dealing with patients and therapeutics. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that is a very interesting principle. And if you go back in time, you remember the people who inspired the

lockdowns were not, they didn't have patients. They never seen patients. They don't have clinics. There are people like Neil Ferguson at the Imperial College, you know, with his, throwing his models around and running his numbers and saying, you know, it seems to me- Because the only way- Between running numbers and dealing with his girlfriend down the street. the only way you're ever going to understand the potential impact of something like, you don't, it's a clinician who understands that children, when they get diagnosed with or referred for hearing or vision problems, it's because the teachers are the ones who refer those. Those rarely come from a parent.

It's clinicians who understand what's going to happen when people miss their screening colonoscopy, their screening mammogram, their follow-up on their diabetes. It's clinicians who understand the impact of these sorts of things, of missing these appointments, of missing routine dental exams, and what's going to happen. Us clinicians, clinicians that what is hammered into our head is do no harm. And a sociologist has zero of such training and zero risk reward decision making, which is at the core of what we do. No, I agree. And the idea of, you know, again, this therapeutic nihilism, these are things that social scientists and these administrators have no idea about. And I'm not even giving Anthony Fauci a pass. The last time Anthony Fauci saw patients was 54 years ago. The CAT scan hadn't been invented yet. So I'm not sure he knows which end of the stethoscope to put in his ear.

But all your comments are premised on the idea that public health is about people. And I'm not sure the people who are running public health today really get that. They think it's about systems and about models and about control as if we're all lab rats. Not even lab rats. What do they call it in computer code, like non-playing characters or something? NPCs. NPCs. Well, they have become the public health, and we've talked about this quite a bit, I

could say because I did my postgraduate training at Harvard School of Public Health, and I could tell you they have become social justice warriors. It really has very little to do, as you said, about public health, and it's more about equity and systems and making sure things that really have nothing to do with public health. And it's more about equity and systems and making sure things that really have nothing to do with public health. Because if you leave sort of the risk benefit calculation behind, which they did, if you act as if everyone is at equivalent risk, there is no equality when it comes to, you know, viruses don't need to be equitable. There's no requirement that a virus is equitable, regardless of whether or not you find that a, you know, a nice public health construct. It doesn't happen. So they have become, as you said, much more interested in systems and in things that have nothing to do with really what's to benefit the public. Please write about that. That's your next article.

My friends, I still can't quite shake off the horrifying reality that in the name of public health, we have ruined public health in this country. We are facing an unprecedented crisis. Three years ago, I could walk through the streets of Manhattan and not be enveloped by bellows of marijuana smoke everywhere. I'm sorry to sound COVID-19, the weight gain during the lockdowns was just unbelievable. And just the loss of concern, the closure of the gyms, the non-emphasis on health and sunshine and exercise, and the shutdown of the medical system. Do you know, and my training is in economics and not in medicine or health or other forms of science, but if you look at the data about public health spending, how much people spent on their own medical care during the pandemic,

it crashed down like 30%. What are we doing? So historians are going to look back at, oh, a pandemic? Well, how come the hospitals were underused? How come healthcare spending plummeted during a pandemic? What was going on with these people? You really couldn't have come up with a way to harm health more than you did. You told people, stay indoors, close the gyms, do not gather with friends and family, don't go to church, don't get screening exams, don't go to school and further your education. Sit on the sofa, binge watch Netflix, and stay indoors. I mean, you couldn't really have come up with a formula to be more harmful overall to the functioning of their immune system. And for COVID specifically.

Exactly. That's what I mean, for COVID specifically. Exactly. That's what I mean, for COVID specifically. There's a reason why during the tuberculosis outbreaks, they put people on the roofs of the hospital and they let them outdoors. They put them outside, not inside. We have a long history. People acted as if we've all of a sudden forgotten all of that. I preach people all the time, healthy know, healthy diet, regular exercise, stress mitigation, everything that we didn't let them do. Okay. Social isolation is probably one of the most devastating things you can do to the immune system.

Unbelievable. And not to mention psychological torment, right? I mean, I had one friend, his whole social circle, his entire social circle was connected with his AA group, right? The lockdowns came. He couldn't, and not only was it preventing him from returning to the Batu, and among other terrible things that he used to do, but it was his entire life. So suddenly the lockdowns came. He was isolated. And the only thing that was open in town were the liquor stores and the pot shops. So of course, so guess what? I asked, by the way, a public health official in Massachusetts, I said, if this is a public health crisis, if you're dealing with public health, why are all the liquor stores open? And they said to me,

listen, if we shut the liquor stores, it would be like a revolution in this country. Well, okay. Well, the liquor stores made more money than ever during that period, during the lockdown period. And you can go look at the data yourself. I mean, the sales are through the roof. And so it was a public health disaster. So the public health establishment created the biggest public health crisis of our lifetimes. We've reversed whatever progress we're making since World War II has been completely reversed.

The life expectancy is on the decline, one, two, and three years as a result. Not because of people dying from COVID, from the fallout from lockdown, from the calamity they created. I'm sorry you're getting me whipped up here, but again, there will not be justice, but at least we need some admission of wrongdoing, some humility and the courage to say we are wrong, and let's go about fixing it through whatever ways we can, through old-fashioned traditional public health principles, all of which we need to recover. Absolutely.

Well, thank you for being here, Jeffrey. And as I said, you are welcome to join us whenever there's something that comes across your desk. We'd love to discuss it further. So we appreciate it very much. All the best. Our pleasure. Coming up, Kelly, you want to talk about Dr. Richard Urso tomorrow?

Yes. We have Richard Urso, who is an ophthalmologist down in Texas and also the founder of the Global COVID Summit. He's been on the front lines with me speaking out about this fiasco from really the very beginning. He'll be a great guest. He's got lots to talk about, including the vaccines and lipid nanoparticles and those sorts of things. And then I know I've got Dr. Ryan Cole back by popular demand for Dr. Ryan Cole Part 2. He's on the following Wednesday, the 1st. And then Senator Ron Johnson coming the next week. Really excited to have him. He's been just incredibly outspoken, a huge supporter of the work we've been doing from the very beginning of the pandemic. He's Rose? Dr. Jessica Rose coming on the 15th of February.

She's got great data to share. She's just a brilliant analyst and has a lot of data to share on everything from just the COVID pandemic in general. And then also, obviously, with regard to the vaccines. And then we have Brooke Jackson, who is a whistleblower, was working with Batavia, which was the company tasked with overseeing Pfizer's COVID vaccine trials. And she is the person who actually saw these irregularities in the trials, went to the FDA to report them, and she was fired within a matter of hours. And she has a lot to say about what went on during the vaccine trials.

Interesting stuff. All right, so over the next month, we've got a lot lined up for you, but we'll see everyone tomorrow. We're going to be a little bit later tomorrow. Tomorrow's four o'clock Pacific instead of three o'clock. Yes, four o'clock Pacific. So make note of that.

What's that, Susan? What's going on? Nevermind. You screamed out, out oh and then said no all right so four o'clock tomorrow uh we do not have a show on thursday and friday i accidentally said today's show was at four o'clock but it's obviously was at three o'clock and if i misled any of you please go watch and watch the first with uh jeffrey it was amazing uh and then it'll be back to usual schedule next week.

So Kelly, as always, thank you very much. We'll see you tomorrow at four o'clock. Sounds great. See you tomorrow. Thanks. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment.

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