Ask Dr. Drew - DEI Discrimination Is Immoral & Finally Illegal – So Its Promoters Are Hiding Under New Names w/ Adam Coleman & Tommy Carrigan – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 473

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

President Trump issued a day-1 executive order banning DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion) discrimination policies – but Adam Coleman warns that its promoters won’t give up easily and are simply hiding under new euphemisms. “They have misread the lessons of the past by concluding only that discrimination against black people and/or “underrepresented groups” is wrong,” writes Adam Coleman, founder of Wrong Speak Publishing. “This is not accurate, nor moral. All discrimination is immoral, regardless of whether it’s directed at your demographic or not.” Adam Coleman is a writer featured in the New York Post, UnHerd, Newsweek, Daily Mail, and Human Events. He founded Wrong Speak Publishing and authored Black Victim To Black Victor. His latest book, The Children We Left Behind (2025), explores family separation’s impact on children, drawing from his own experiences. He began speaking out during the 2020 riots. Find more at https://adambcoleman.com and https://x.com/wrong_speak Tommy Carrigan is a Rumble creator and host of Tommy’s Podcast. He graduated magna cum laude from the University of Georgia with a Biology degree in 2013, declining pharmacy and medical school offers to pursue independence. Starting his podcast in 2019, he was banned from YouTube after interviewing Dr. Robert Malone. More at https://tommyspodcast.com and https://x.com/_tommyspodcast 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • ACTIVE SKIN REPAIR - Repair skin faster with more of the molecule your body creates naturally! Hypochlorous (HOCl) is produced by white blood cells to support healing – and no sting. Get 20% off at https://drdrew.com/skinrepair • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We are going to get into it today. Adam Coleman joins me. He says DEI promoters have misread the lessons of the past. He says all racism is bad and discrimination is bad and immoral. You can follow Adam at adamcoleman.com and also wrong underscore speak on X will talk about his Books and publications and where you can find more about him Then we're gonna talk to Tommy Kerrigan who has we're gonna get a lot there with Tommy Maybe his particular you can find him on

X underscore Tommy podcast and also Tommy's a podcast Tommy's podcast and Tommy's podcast com Always podcast also on rumble be right back with Adam Coleman after this Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre psychopath start this way He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography PTSD PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin, ridiculous **** I'm a doctor for ****, where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician, I observe things about these chemicals, but just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time.

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because I think I want to start with that conversation because there's a quote from the press release. There we go. The children we left behind. And the press release says, there's a common thread connecting the major social issues of our time. The normalization of family separation,

nearly a quarter of American children are growing up in separate homes from their parents, especially the fathers, ranking America amongst the worst nation for family breakdown. Welcome the author of that book, Adam Coleman. You can find Adam as I said on Twitter at on X rather wrong speak underscore wrong underscore speak.

Adam, welcome. Good to see you. Tell me about that. I was, I'm interested in that because I, I said that not thinking about, I thought it was matter of fact on Laura Ingraham's show on Friday. I just, she asked what all the violence was about. And I, you know, the sort of normalization of violence

and aggression and making it a, you know, media event to kids with their cameras and stuff. And I said, well, I mean, either absent fathers or physically abusive fathers are well known to create these things. And it feels like you're making a similar case. If dad kind of represents society to a child, and if dad is not available, abandoning or abusive, child is not going to like trusting the world at large very well.

Yeah, that's exactly right. The most important apparent to a child is the same sex parent. And if we're looking at violence, predominantly it comes from the men. So the boys grow up and they either don't have a model within their home or they're, like you said, they have a model of a abusive father figure that they repeat. And so this is basically the outcome.

And a lot of times that violent outburst is a result of being frustrated. Maybe they're not being seen. Maybe they're looking for attention. Maybe something is physically or sexually happening to them. So these are various reasons as to why they start going into a violent path. On top of that, you have external influences.

So gang culture, for example, it's a way for young men to feel some sort of camaraderie, to have some sort of direction. There's usually an older male model within that group of young men who instructs the younger boys. So there's usually something that ties to it starting from their home, their home life. And I always say a happy child is conducting themselves

in a violent manner. So something is going on. Yeah. Yeah. And this is just true of all human beings. We've known that throughout history. This is just how, and what do you think psychologists do? We talk about, you know,

we talk to them about their sporting events or we talk to them about their family of origin issues and traumas from the family of origin, the shortcomings? That's what psychological services are. And unfortunately they've sort of, these days it's about treating the traumatizing experience and abandonment, neglect, separated affairs, broken families, those are on the scale

of adverse childhood experiences, the ACE score. And you get three of those or more and you're in big trouble in terms of your mental health and your behavior. How did you come to this and how are people receiving your talking about it? Well, see, that's the thing. I don't get a lot of pushback about it

because people know this, they understand this. It's just that it's a massive problem and to resolve it, it's about looking at ourselves as resolve it, it's about looking at ourselves as the individual. As each individual family has to take responsibility for their conduct and even more so how they approach family planning. And much of what I've been writing about is talking about parental selfishness, making family about the adults instead of the children. So the adults get to act like children, they get to act whimsical, sleep with whoever, procreate

without a plan and chase all types of dreams that they want. And the children are expected to respond like adults, just understand adult dynamics, adult relationships, and they just get dragged along because mommy or daddy makes a choice and they have to deal with it. because mommy or daddy makes a choice and they have to deal with it. Yeah, you know, you make me have a flashback and a memory I have of this woman

who was a makeup artist for me at one of the television outlets I was working at. And she was lovely, but her marriage wasn't working out. And she was going to get a divorce. And she sat her son down and she said, you know, mommy and daddy are going to separate. And he, the son objected, protested, no, please. And she said, don't you want mommy to be happy?

And he said, what about me? Don't you want me to be happy? And that's the last thing that's considered when people rupture families. That's exactly it. I think we've lost one of the most important aspects of love and when it comes to relationships. And it's the willingness to sacrifice and

That's what we're supposed to do for our children. We're supposed to sacrifice for them and a lot of these marriages I mean, I'm sure you've dealt with this where you're listening to their problems and you're like, I mean, yes it's a problem, but you can resolve it but someone is hell-bent on separating the family and Someone has too much pride. Someone is seeing maybe they already started looking outside the marriage and they just want to end it so they can start over. But they're thinking about everything else except sacrificing their pride, their ego, their sexual appetite, sacrificing those things for their children.

And so what I'm trying to encourage is before you make a rash decision or a big decision, maybe something that you've thought about for quite some time, have you thought about it from your child's perspective? Because I think as adults, we forget what it's like to be a kid and your parents are your world. And when you divorce, it's literally like the world splitting in half. And that's a detrimental thing to experience. That's right. It's again, it's an adverse childhood experience. We pretend it's just, oh, kids are resilient.

No big deal. No, it's a very big deal. And we don't do a good job with it. I have to say though, I'm delighted that you're not getting a lot of pushback because when I made that comment very, very non-confrontationally on Fox News, I was excoriated.

Oh, I'm a single mom, blah, blah, blah. I'm not taking anything away from anybody. It's just, we have to really recognize the impact of this. And by the way, there's some evidence that if you can get, particularly those male children, a sustained, stable relationship with another male, coach, teacher, or something outside the home for at least six to 10 years. It has to be sustained for a long time.

You can accomplish something with that. And kids and young males do kind of seek that a little bit. Unfortunately, that's how they end up in the gangs and things. That's how they end up going the wrong way. Yes, that's correct. I do think having an outside male role model can be beneficial. And what you explained before as

far as the pushback from single mothers, I think the difference is that I'm a product of a single parent home. I'm the exact child who grew up without his father. And I explain the adverse effects for me,

dealing with mental health issues, being admitted into a mental hospital at the age of eight for suicidal ideation. Like all these different things, suffering from this, this is a byproduct of a chaotic life stemming from single parenthood, you know, ending up homeless twice as a child, watching my mother struggle

because she's the only one taking care of us and she's a single income earner. And there is no superhero, you know, cheer that you can give my mother and no one would wish that a woman, especially me, I would never wish for a woman to go through what my mother went through to take care of us.

Yeah, Rob Henderson's book Troubled is about the chaos and he's made the point several times that the moving and the chaos and the instability, that's probably more impactful than just about anything else. So let's go transition over to DEI. You've taken very, very clear stances on that. Tell me what your position is, how you got into this.

Yeah, I started writing about race and obviously my first book, Black Victim and Black Victor, talking about race and being more open about it. The reason I started commenting on DEI was because after George Floyd, everyone pretended that wanting

a colorblind society was improbable and that there was something wrong with that. And then all of a sudden we must, on a very superficial level, treat each other, give each other benefits, or go after someone simply because of their skin color, which is the opposite lesson we were supposed to learn

from the Civil Rights Movement. The Civil Rights Movement was about blanket discrimination. It didn't matter. It wasn't, well, you can't discriminate against the blacks. It was discrimination period. And so the lesson that I learned as a child, primarily growing up in the late 80s and 90s, was that we were supposed to look at each other

as individuals. And that black person might be a good person, might be a bad person. That white person might be good or bad. They're an individual, and they're allowed to express themselves in a particular way and I can judge them by their character. But with DEI, it makes everything incredibly superficial and it's also tinged with racism, but in more of a condescending tone towards black people. So even the white

progressives who are championing black Americans like me, there is a tinge of racism, a bigotry of low expectation that they still place upon me because they have to do it for me because I'm incapable of doing it because of the quote unquote system. Right. That has got to feel bad that can't feel good. And there's the layer of, I guess it started us for COVID, I was starting to hear about colonialism and colonial history and that was

we should feel guilty and bad and terrible about that, which yes, for sure it was a bad thing. My family was in the Ukraine at the time under Stalin's thumb and other, you know, even further back, just peasants, just serfs, slaves, essentially, serfs or slaves. That's really what they were at the time.

Yeah, things were bad. How do we help people reconcile, you know, histories that were just, you know, we would certainly would not wish them or recreate them today. Yeah, I think it's important to look at the progress. I think that's what makes me proud to be an American is the progress. So even if I was to grant every narrative that they have, pre civil rights era, back into slavery and all of that. Even if I was to grant America was this horrible place. Let's just say they're 100% true.

Well, today it isn't. Today it's the land of progress. And even in my lifetime, I've seen things gradually get more better for someone like myself. And not just on the superficial level, like look at we had a black president and all this other stuff. I not just on the superficial level, like, look at, we had a black president and all this other stuff. I'm just saying that when I look at the average person in my life, and I have people in my family who are professionals, lawyers, they work for city governments, just a wide range, and they live good lives,

and they're appreciative, and they're positive people, and they're appreciative and they're positive people and they're not they're not angry 24 seven, but they're not oblivious that yes, some races out there exists. But I'll say that most people live in one area their entire life and they deal with some sort of people maybe in your area, it's terrible. But by virtue of having that unstable home, we've lived in four states, I've lived in five states actually, in total, four states before the age of 18. I've been in rural, urban, and suburban areas, and the amount of racist situations that I've personally dealt with, I can fit on one hand.

Who is your sort of philosophical guiding light right now? I'm just curious. I see some sort of portrait over your left shoulder. Who do you see that, I don't know who that is necessarily, but tell me who are you sort of, who do you lean on to help understand where we are? Well, that's Thomas Sowell that's over my shoulder. Oh, that's Thomas Sowell? Okay.

Yeah. Yes, now I can see that. Yeah, he's great. Well, that's somebody to lean on right there. That's good, I like that. Yeah, so that's someone who is admirable. You know, I look at people who are personally in my life. I look at people that I've met since becoming a writer,

successful people, just a wide variety of people. So I don't have one particular person. I take hope from everybody. And in the positives of different people, the positive attributes of different people, I learn from. My big thing is the human experience is about always learning and learning from different perspectives.

I've traveled to multiple countries around the world, made friends in these different places and I always learn something from them. Whether I agree with it or maybe it takes me time to understand their perspective is a different story. But I think that I try my best to learn from everyone. Yeah, I have not brought his writing up in a little while. And I think it is time to really put him front and center again, which is Frederick Douglass. He had a way of synthesizing our situation as a country that

was just like, boom, there it is. And his words are so powerful, and he dealt with so much. I just think he's somebody we could call upon in the present moment to kind of make sense of things. Are there things that, are you worried? Oh, there's Thomas Sowell. Are you worried about right now? Or yeah, he, by the way, Sowell, let's see if,

I'm curious if my chat room reacts to Sowell because he came out against, against tariffs. And you have to be all in or all out these days, apparently. And so, no, nobody's, nobody's freaking out. That's good. Does not, it's a, Thomas soul is entitled to his opinion, guys. He's a brilliant dude.

We've been listening to him for a long time and should continue to do so, whether he thinks tariffs are a good idea or not. But are there things you're really worried about today? What's kind of when you're thinking about things or maybe writing another book, I don't know, what is your concern? Well, politically and socially, I'm actually pretty optimistic. I've seen a cultural shift from when I started writing in 2020. Things seem to be calmer. Which sounds weird because, you know, we saw these protests over the weekend, but the rational people are starting to get more of a voice and the irrational people are very upset about it. But that group of people is smaller.

That's about some things up right there. I think you're kind of right, keep going. That's funny. But the thing that I am concerned about, which is why I wrote this book and it's very timely for this book to come out, is because repeatedly I would write these articles, like for example, for the New York Post talking about the Yuvalde shooter, where he was having mental issues, but he had a break once he stopped seeing his father due to COVID. And I wanted to talk about these different things, you know, mass shooter statistics, the vast majority of them come from divorce or single parent homes.

Like this is a common, common thread. And I just kept seeing it come up over and over. And I would use my story as an example where I'm empathizing. I understand, even though their actions are heinous, I understand their beginning. And so my biggest thing right now is trying to do the best that I can to stem the tide of bad parental decisions, reunification of families.

I've been very fortunate to talk to fathers who, yes, they bad parental decisions, reunification of families. I've been very fortunate to talk to fathers who, yes, they made mistakes, but they're trying to get back into their children's lives. And their children have put walls up. And I'm trying to give them strategies where they can be accountable for what they did, ask for forgiveness, and be patient with their kids so they can be back in their lives.

And that would cause so much healing. And I can't tell you how many kids, all they really need is to know that their parents love them and that their parents are proud of them. And so I think the, our country, you know, actually throughout the West, we need a lot of healing. So that's the thing that I'm mostly worried about. I also wonder where the church has been or if they're being helpful for you in this, go ahead.

Not as of yet, I made it public last year that I'm a Christian now, I was baptized in Georgia. And I am trying to be closer to the ministry, trying to have more of an influence to talk about this message, because ultimately this is, whether you're secular or not, it is a biblical message. The importance of the family is a godly importance as well. And so, you know, I do list my testimony within the book in the context of, you know, when I was very young, the Bible was in my hand and I understood scripture, but experiencing mental anguish, experiencing homelessness, constantly moving, I thought God abandoned me just like my father.

And then it took me decades. You know, I'm 40 years old now, but it took me until last year I was 39 when I was finally baptized and finally fully reunited with my God. So this is a common thing. I watch a lot of testimonies that come into Christ. It's very common to see these people start off with their story of family separation, whether it's through divorce or single parenthood, and taking decades to come back to Christ. And they are lost in chasing idolatry and money, sex, drugs, you name it,

coping with all different types of traumas, ultimately to finally come back. But they're the lucky ones who actually do come back. I just thank you for that. I think what you're doing is so important. It's just you're a very clear voice and it's just, you clearly have a way of delivering it that people hear it too, which is really as important as anything else. So I appreciate that. I'm just thinking, Susan, I want to get you in on this. We were, you there, Susan? Yeah.

Adam and I were- I think I'm here. Yeah, Adam Crowell and I were talking about, Susan's done this very deep dive into the 1960s. Are you taking stuff from my show again? Well, I saw- Before it airs. No, no, no, no, no.

I'm telegraphing the show. Okay. But- We're gonna do a show about this. But I saw you chatting about it here on our chat streams. Yeah. And the thing, it's just one of the uncanny things about the moment we're in, and you're young enough, Adam,

you should really look at this history. We lived it, which is that we went through the Second World War, we ended up as a country having too much money, and particularly sort of, we watched a movie called last night called Mondo Hollywood, and looking at the white men, the conservatives of that era of the like the 50s

was uncomfortable. It's like, oh yeah, you don't want that. That's like, it was excessive. And then all of a sudden in like, oh yeah, you don't want that. That's like, it was excessive. And then all of a sudden, in like 1965 to 67, like a switch, like a switch went off. It's like I was talking to Adam Corolla about his mom who I see pictures of her up until 1965 or so, and she's got a tight bun, you know, a beehive hairdo, and she's dressed in the pink hive. And then the next picture, like one day,

all of a sudden one hair goes do-yo-yo-yo-yo-ing like a cartoon and everything falls apart, like overnight, like it just fell apart. And that's what happened to our country in a weird way. And I'm trying, I don't know if you've looked at that history, but by 1968, we were a different place. And young people and us, like me and Susan, we were in the middle of it as adolescents.

We were lucky though, we had parents, well, that had- That were together. Well, they had shitty childhoods too, but we were lucky enough to not get abused by the- Well, not in the same way. Yeah, not the same way. I'm listening to this thing about Laurel Canyon. It's so funny because a lot of the people

that ended up in Laurel Canyon, one of their parents just died of suicide. Yeah, and the dad was physically abusive. Or they were in the military and they probably beat the crap out of them. And they were moving around because they're in the military and that kind of thing. And they led this-

And they became LSD addicts later. Right, and they led this change in society that we as young adults bought into. And I'm gonna say you could take back, oh, there it is. You could dial back what's happened to our families to right about there. And families, African-American families,

all families suffered as a result of this unraveling. But I'll just give you sort of closing thoughts since this is on our mind lately. We lived it, the anthropology of that era is sort of affecting us now. Yeah, it is very interesting. And actually it's a good point that you bring up because this isn't a new thing.

It's not like my generation is the first generation to deal with this. Yeah. A lot of the relationship dynamics and the, and actually you've seen it on the online world, how negative they talk about men and women as far as dating goes. A lot of that has to do with fear. A lot of that has to do with what they've seen at home. And so when you ask these young people, well, why don't they want to get married? It's because they saw how their parents conducted themselves. Marriage to them is the parents. Absolutely. And Adam, I want to interrupt you with, I want to interrupt you just quickly

with the thing that I started hearing about 10 years ago, which I don't need to get married. Marriage is just a piece of paper. And I'm like, every contract is just a piece of paper. It's a marriage contract. You know what I mean? And it's the only contract we make with society and God and the community. That's the one. And it's a piece of paper. That's right. Because when we sign our name to a piece of paper, it has meaning. And we just, they've just lost it. But finish your thoughts and we'll kind of wrap up with all this. Yeah, that's exactly it. It is a piece of paper, but there's meaning behind it, right?

You're putting skin in the game, but on top of that, it's an institution so we can raise our families. Because the most people, their objective of getting married is to start a family, right? Or at least that's what it used to be. But now we see marriage as some sort of business deal, right? What do I get from it? You know, does this person have all the attributes? Like everything is a job interview.

But even beyond that, there are a lot of young people who are scared to enter marriage, scared to enter long-term relationships because they've watched their parents get burned in some particular way. They've watched someone get abused. Literally it's a faithlessness. They've lost faith.

Yeah. Right. They've lost hope in relationships. Yeah, what are you guys saying? I just, I want you to finish, but I was thinking also we've lost meaning making. We've lost faith and we've lost ability to make meaning and it all starts right there.

At least it's a core phenomenon. Is that more male than female? Not lately, I just read a thing, one of the reasons Adam and I were talking, Adam Kroll and I were talking about this, is there's all this stuff online where therapists for young females are like, oh, women are just more, they're more independent,

they're more, they're self-seeking for their self-fulfillment in their career. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good, good on you. But there's other, I mean, it's feels very defensive. If you asked a young male why he's not getting married, he goes, I'm having a good time. I'm not ready yet. But you, but you're hearing all this language as to why it's so great. It feels defensive. And fine, go do what you want to do, but you got to be realistic about the consequences that Adam Coleman is talking about. Yeah, exactly it.

And the last thing I'll just leave off with, I do want people to have hope. I think hope is incredibly important. It's what tethers us to life and losing hope and having sustainable families, finding a sustainable relationship is something that is incredibly detrimental. And so I'm a prime example of someone who finally did get married, happily married. Can't see myself with anyone else. And yes, it took me a while because I had to improve myself to find someone who was

suitable. Hope and faith, hope and meaning of what life is about. I appreciate you, Adam. Thank you for being here. Thank you for writing the book. So I look forward to keeping tabs on you and hearing more from you in the very near future. Thank you. Appreciate it.

All right. You can follow him, wrong underscore speak. You can also see the children we left behind, get that book, read it. Coming up, we are gonna talk to Tommy Kerrigan. He's the host of Tommy's podcast. He is a biologist by training, which I find interesting. He was banned from YouTube

after he interviewed Robert Malone. I'm guessing some vaccine stuff came up. You can find his. Oh, no, shocking. We all share that. It all Emily said and it's under Emily and yeah, Emily sent them. And adamkohlmann.com and where you can find Adam.

And again, wrong underscore speak for Adam on X. And then Tommy is Tommyommies with an S at YSPodcast.com and underscore Tommy's podcast on X. I got a lot to get into with Tommy as well. I hope you'll stick around for this conversation. Let me look really quickly. Thank you, Trey's Myths. Yes, go ahead.

While you're looking at that, I wanted to bring this up because we talked about Thomas Sowell. Sowell, yeah. Remember, Clifton Duncan and his campaign on Indiegogo to, he's making a solo play. He spoke about this last time. He's already raised $145,000

to make this play. Like, put it on stage. This is Clifton Duncan. Oh, that's right. Remember? The play, that's right. I forgot about that. He's been talking about this for a while.

So I hope if anyone's interested in this, go and check that out. It's on Indiegogo. It's Clifton Duncan. He's an amazing actor and he's going to be perfect for this. And he's funding it all himself, I believe. Oh my God. Clifton is an inspiration.

I saw him early in COVID. He spoke out against the behavior of the arts community during COVID and really literally moved away. Moved down to Georgia, became like a waiter or something. He's the guy's an exceptional performer and singer. And he said, I don't want to be around people that treat me like that anymore. That that's just these, this, this behavior is not okay. He was right. And now he's able to pursue some passion projects like this. So good for him. And just quickly, I wanna look quickly at the chats

to see if there's anything. What is the classic movie, J Wink, you talking about Mondo Hollywood that we got into? Oh my gosh. It was just so ridiculous. It was weird. Tony, I'm not sure what you mean by the answers. Show like different people in that era,

like what they were doing and how they were, I think it's just sort of a montage of the different characters in that era, like what they were doing and how they were, I think it's just sort of a montage of the different characters in Hollywood, right? But yes, but it was sort of glorifying this, the mentally ill people that were coming here. I totally agree with you, we haven't gotten to it. I mean, they were being ironic about them, but they were sort of being glorified.

And while the Hollywood sort of, the products of Hollywood were being demeaned very appropriately. I mean, all they were, because he was sort of looking at the fact that the only thing Southern California really had were these movie celebrities, and they would just list them one after the other,

after the other, after the other, and that was their great export. And these people had nothing really as humans. And then the people that were coming here to pursue that were in even bigger trouble for the most part. They all dropped out of school and started dropping ass and became musicians. Right, that's your story for tomorrow.

That is at noon, is that correct? 11 o'clock tomorrow, Pacific. Okay, that's gonna be a really interesting show. We wanna also talk to everybody. We have a new time slot here at two o'clock Pacific, which is five o'clock Eastern. Wonder how you guys like it, or if you prefer the 3 p.m. part time.

Yeah, we were, what about Bob? Oh yeah. We decided that we were up against our fans. Our friends? Yeah, we were doing our show the same time as everybody else. That's right, and so we moved it back an hour, but you guys have to get used to that

and then tell us if it works. If it doesn't work, we'll move it back to three o'clock, we can easily do that. But two is, I think it's a better time for everybody. How are you liking it, Caleb? I like it because I can actually get the podcast up same day instead of waiting and putting it up a few days later so people get it right away.

It gives me that extra hour, so. I'm going to ask the podcast people too if they look prefer that as well all right before we go to Tommy you you mentioned something in the prep notes Caleb about Tim Dillon's American cast diatribe is rant did what were you thinking? That was it that's okay, cuz that actually isn the one, that actually isn't what I retweeted. That's what I thought. I thought it was a different one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, what I retweeted was the Oompa Loopa diatribe. There's so many of them. How can you keep track? You gotta get him on the show. Oh my God, I love it. Let's get him on the show. Let's do it.

Yeah, he's- I have his phone number. I know, I know. He's a friend. So he's busy, but yeah, we have his phone number. I know, I know. He's a friend. So he's busy, but I, yeah, we can do like half hour on Oopa Loompas with Tim Dillon. He might like my show too. I don't know. He might make fun of you.

He might. I got TJ Miller. Is that coming up? He's coming up in a couple of weeks. Oh, great. Well, that took some doing. Okay. That was like herding cats.

You're not, you're not done. He's not here yet. I took some doing. Okay. That was like herding cats. You're not done. He's not here yet. I know. So. The show I'm doing tomorrow was postponed twice. So it's, you know, we're not that worried about it. Right, so I do, I think tomorrow.

First with the White House, then I got COVID and that was just like, nobody would come over and be my friend. To say Susan has been doing our homework on this one is an understatement. I've never prepared for a show for two weeks. I've been exposed to some of the books about these people and about the time of history that they're digging into.

And it confirms everything I thought. Oh, Drew, it only gets worse. Like there's more. It's like this book I'm reading, Crazy Times in Laurel Canyon. It's like, it's getting worse. Now I'm finally just now getting to John Phillips, who I'm hoping is gonna come through in spirit tomorrow.

Well, these were the people we glorified and that's the part that I've always wondered what was going on that we did that, because these are not people you would want to elevate to any status. It's a dark place to be, trust me. Oh my God. I mean, I have to take a shower.

And we deified them in salt water after every day when I go. Very odd thing that we did that. All right, let's get to Tommy. We're gonna take a little break and be right back. You're just too sweet. Tommy Kerrigan.

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That the people that we support us we can support I don't want to get too hyped on it But you know, of course, everyone saw how much it helped my baby. That's like a three day difference between there and there with no photoshopping. But then I had a paper cut yesterday and you know how annoying those are. So I just dripped a couple drops of that stuff on there. Gone.

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It worked. All right. Tommy Kerrigan. He's got a lot to talk to us about. I want to give you the particulars again, where you can find him underscore Tommy's Tommy's podcast, Tommy's podcast.com. Find him on Rumble. Tommy, thank you for sitting by patiently

and welcome to the program. Yeah, you're cool, man. Thanks for having me. The book who was ever off screen talking, is it Dave McGowan's Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon? Is that the book she's talking about? Yes, yes, yes, yes. I read that a couple months ago.

That's a- Very comprehensive. Have you read that book? Yeah, no, and it's weird because at first you look at the six seasons, that was just a crazy time, and then you unwrap that and you realize that was a crazy time preempted largely by intelligence agencies,

which just makes it that much crazier. Well, I haven't gotten to that part of the book yet, and all I got to, and you can help me with this, what I got to is I've always wondered why we elevated these assholes to deity status. These half-hearted musicians, oh, they're geniuses, they're geniuses. And then these people acted out in horrible ways

that we have still not come to terms with. They were not good people. They were largely sociopaths. They were drug addicts. They were people that didn't, were not worthy of the status that they were granted. And I couldn't understand why we did that as a country. And it felt like, I don't know what the,

it felt like it was a sort of, they all had family in the military. Or in special forces or whatever. But they were acting out against their dad in the military. And so I'm wondering, did the intelligence officials get to the kids? forces, or whatever. But they were acting out against their dad in the military. And so I'm wondering, did the intelligence officials get to the kids? And were they then trying to get them to gin up

some anti-Vietnam stuff? Or were these foreign operatives that wanted the US to fail in Vietnam that got to these kids and knew that they were sort of disdainful of their dads, who were military officials. What do you think? I mean, just reflexively and based really on nothing other than just kind of gut is it seems almost like a gain of function, but of the sixties.

So you have all these kids who are all, you know, they're all bucking their dad's greatest generation he would GMO all that shit. They all come home after they're all Working in your military intelligence agencies or the Rand Corps from Northrop There was a there's a movie suit is called Lookout Mountain that was run by the federal government And I think you have that they probably looked at it and then you look at LSD. I mean, and if you don't know any better It's a wildly destabilizing thing. I mean think about think about like If you don't know any better, it's a wildly destabilizing thing. I mean, think about like two and a half kids,

nuclear family, green lawn, white picket fence. And then you have people growing their hair out, driving around in Volkswagen buses, talking about having a- Overnight, Adam, I'm coming. Overnight, it happened very fast. So if you're in the intelligence community, you're probably looking at this and going,

this is some Soviet weapon. And so what you would do is if you can't stem the tide of it, I think what you do is you dump as much gas as you can on it and make it look wild to where people naturally would start to reject it and go, 60s it all starts out and then it progresses and it gets really dark in like a decade and a half. How else would you get people to reject this thing that you can't control?

But rather, you know, it's like, you know making the kid smoke the whole pack of cigarettes. So you never smokes again It's kind of what it looks like Tommy to come on my show tomorrow get a psychic reading might need that because he's Used that brain for good Tommy. It's all I'm saying Cause he's, he's that use that brain for good, Tommy. That's all I'm saying. And so, and so, but yet we have not really recovered from that would be my point. It, we really, that's what Adam and I were just talking

about it's still things unraveled that we've not been able to get our shit back together again. No, I think we eventually will then. It's like what you're saying beforehand, you know you look back at, you know, like 1950s kind of mad men it is in your face But at the same time you can't scold the path that gets you to the summit and I'll just really real quick for my own When I was in college, I was like super militant like went to UGA never partied All I did was study all I did was work out

All I did was meditate ace the MCAT got into med school and was like, okay That's all well and good decided I didn't want to go a couple ones after that locked my older brother suicide And then I just spiraled like five years and when I'm spiraling though, it also it's like a mid-life So it's like an existential crisis of losing someone but I also had this midlife crisis of like I just threw away four years Of at the best party school got in a med school and didn't want To do it. So I kind of combined all the vices that I never partook in and At the time I thought I'm kind of it's like in the trope of like, oh, I'm liberated. I'm happy now

I was miserable. I put on 70 pounds was addicted to several drugs doing a ton of hallucinogens I started the podcast in 2020 while living above my parents' garage because I had moved home because that's how fucked up my life was. And now I'm back to the militant, work seven days a week, get up early. And you know what?

It's not a bad thing. I took it too far in college and didn't enjoy life. But now it has brought me to- You didn't own it. It wasn't yours. I don't know what now it has brought me to- You didn't own it. It wasn't yours. I don't know what was motivating you then, but really you didn't own it the same way. So my point is, is you can look at it

and associate it, a Pavlovianly. You can go, that's bad. You didn't enjoy life. First, as I look at it now, well, I do my own podcast for a living on my own boss. I'm sober and I enjoy life. So my point is, is we can look back at the sorta, leave it to beaver and go, man, that was a different time.

But you also have to be very honest with yourself and go, are we in a good place now? And when you have kids chopping their genitals off and half the country thinks it's okay, I would argue that it's probably not good. And I'm not saying everything in the 50s should come back. It shouldn't. I also don't think we should throw it all out

Just for my own. Yeah subjective as one human being on this planet You know, it's interesting. I had a mini version of what you had where I started college all down And then I just announced I'm not up for this Screwed around for 18 months got very unhappy and when I came back, I was, it's so much easier. When you really own it, it's like, oh, this isn't hard anymore. So I want to do. It's crazy.

And my brain had matured a little bit. The male brain needs time. It needs time. Yeah, no, there is sort of like, I don't wanna be this nine to five rube versus now, I'm like, yeah, man, I kinda like it. I like getting up, going to the gym. like, yeah, man, I kinda like it. I like getting up, going to the gym.

I like going to bed early. I like it. And I think that's part of it is like, it has to be your own. So I think who knows in 20, 30 years, if the country looks wildly different, we might not be looking back at the 50s with such a bad taste so much.

So we'd be like, yeah, you know what? We tried something else and it got really, really weird. And then you just do the montage of like summer 2020. And we'd probably, our kids will look at that the same way we look at like the 70s. We go, yeah, it kind of got, that was a little crazy, huh? Got a little dark. It does feel similar.

Yeah, it is similar. You know what's really funny, what Tommy's talking about about the suicide in his life and how depressed he got and he started taking drugs? A lot of the people in that book that they talk about that lived in Laurel Canyon, all came from that family history. Suicide.

And their parents had suicide, then they ended up taking a lot of LSD later. Interesting. And then became a rock star. It's the dropping out feeling. So now you're a biologist by trading. And so am I. And I am mortified by the state of biological sciences these days. And I would call myself sort of a Brett Weinstein acolyte in the sense that he looks at the scientific method is Abandoned her like what people don't aren't even trained in it

And I know you got in trouble for talking to Robert Malone. Tell me about your do you have any Strong thoughts about those kinds of issues right now. I Mean yes, no. Yeah, I mean I have a biology degree I mean, yes and no. Yeah, I mean, I have a biology degree. And then just doing the interviews early on with Dr. Malone, I had them on before they went on Joe Rogan. And so like I had found them and I was like, oh, I was such an idiot that I thought that we would all have a rational discussion where I went up. Well, YouTube's giving me these strikes.

Well, I'll get these doctors on. It's really what it J. Bhattacharya told me the same thing. It's the mistake everybody rational made, which was, Oh, I'm a scientist. We're going to have discourse. Like we always do. Let's get into this. And all of a sudden like what the F is going on here. Yeah. I, I thought that I would get them on and I was like, Hey, well I'll get on the guy with the patents and then we'll instantly banned from YouTube, which then just radicalized me because one,

medicine is near and dear to me, but also that's really not something that should be glossed over. But ultimately I'm not worried about it because it just is. And the best analogy I think I've kind of concluded after all these years is Chernobyl. And that you can have everyone in the KGB or the FSB saying that nothing's happening

and the news stations can say nothing's happening. But eventually external sources like other countries start to go, why is there strontium-90 in the rain? Eventually the physical reality does not give a shit how strong the KGB thinks it is. The atoms are just gonna break apart. It's just a thing going.

The winds aren't gonna stop. You're in the Cold War. Guess what? Everybody's kind of looking for radiation. Eventually the truth comes out. So with biology, as much as I do think that these interviews needed to be done, and I don't regret getting banned from YouTube and iTunes and Reddit and all of them, at the same time I'm not too worried about it because I mean, you can label it all day long. You're not, we barely can get a supercomputer to simulate a single protein folding. You're not, you can gloss over and call up and down

and left is right and it doesn't matter. It just is. You can make it, you can censor everyone that says gravity is 9.81 meters per cent. You can censor everyone, you can kill them. Dog, it's not changing. You could jump off a building, you'll fall. That's kind of how it gets filed.

It just is. So you've said, it's something I've said a little differently is that reality eventually asserts itself. Reality is a way of coming through. It does, that's the thing, it's not even asserting, it just is. Our bubbles, we're standing in front of a tank and you know, tanmen Square and going you're gonna stop and the reality is the tank and it Doesn't even know you're there

That's how I look at it. So I'm not You're sure we've abandoned the scientific method. It doesn't matter I mean it matters in that what we're doing is madness and it will hurt us and only us This science does not care. It does, it just, it's the tank just rolling through. So I'm not too concerned about it. That's good. Yeah, I look forward to the equivalent

of the Chernobyl mini series that we have a COVID series that is equally as penetrating to what happens, we can all kind of come to terms with it. It was going, you know, the other thing I've seen lately, you mentioned getting canceled on everything, is that I guess someone on Rogan was saying this, that as soon as they feel the need to cancel somebody's opinion,

you know it's a Psi-Op of some type. There's something wrong. There should be no active censoring or silencing of people in this country unless they're, you know, for the moment yelling fire in a theater or something, you know, something that is immediately going to hurt somebody. You might go, okay, stop for a second.

But other than that, that's it. And I was thinking, you know, how Putin kills his opponents, Western Europe and the United States puts them in prison. How is that different? It's silencing your opponents. We've sort of taken that on and don't realize we're doing the same thing that Putin does just without a gun.

Well, they're idiots in that if you're gonna do it, you have to go through. And by that, I mean, you know, once you shoot at the can, you best not miss, because if you do miss, they're going to hunt you down. They're going to hunt down your family. You can't mess this stuff up. So if they're going to start centering, right, they're going to kind of take the veil off. And, you know, this is what we are. It's a Marxist government. We'll call it private companies, but everyone knows Department of Homeland Security, FBI, NSIC, CIA, you know they're doing it. If you're going to do this and start censoring, well, obviously you have to start with the outliers you're gonna get in Alex Jones, you're gonna attack the big people, Joe Rogan or Russell Brand, whoever,

and you're gonna keep start censoring just down the line. But the thing is is you can never stop. You've now started something to where you have to set up a dictatorship and you have to eventually, you just walk it out over decades. This is what you have to do. Because if you don't, it might take a little while. It's taken a little while. Four years ago, how strong was rumble?

How strong was a free Twitter? It wasn't, they've induced an immune response. Ironically, it's the most beautiful irony that through forced vaccination, they've actually induced a soci an immune response. Ironically, it's the most beautiful irony that through forced vaccination, they've actually induced a sociological immune response to now you have all these other platforms growing and blowing up and all these shows getting stronger to where now five years ago, somebody gets banned.

Your average person went, well, maybe he shouldn't have said that about Sandy Hook. Now somebody gets banned. Like you said, the-jerk response is like sigh up Sigh, yeah, you now have a populace that is far more awakened to your processes Which means if you're gonna start it you have to go all the way through and set up the dictatorship and they didn't So now it's just you know, what doesn't kill you make you sure the muscle got destroyed, but now it's being repaired So if you're gonna go through with it, man,

you gotta have the balls to go through with it. And they don't. I don't know what to do with that, but I'm glad they didn't. I'm not saying, no, no, thank God they didn't. But what I'm saying is, is like, you have to go through. If you're gonna walk into the bank and shoot the cameras and shoot the security guard,

you've already committed a murder. You gotta rob the bank and leave the country. shoot the security guard. You've already committed a murder. You gotta rob the bank and leave the country. Because if you don't, I'm not saying you should, the whole thing is evil. But if you're going to, now you're just on the run, you didn't even get any money. Like you're stupid. So that's what I mean.

It's like, thank Christ, because this is where we live. But if you're gonna start, you gotta roll out the tank, and they didn't, which is hilarious. What is your, you have such an interesting way of looking at these things, because I don't find it hilarious, if I did, I'd find it deeply disturbing. But good, good on you.

No, it's hilarious in that it didn't work. What they're doing is pure evil, and what they wanted to do is eventually, if you set up a dictatorship, let's make no bones about it. It results in tens of millions of, I'm laughing because it's in hindsight now, but they didn't go through with it. You can call it hilarious.

You can say, thank God for his divine providence, which is true, but it's, they didn't go through with it. And you have to scratch your head and wonder why. Did they not have the guts? Was there some quiet pushback from the national security apparatus? I don't know, but they didn't go through with it, which is actually a very good thing

because we have now survived it. You now have, how common was First Amendment in everyday lexicon five years ago? Oh my God, the fact that I have to worry about defending freedom is just like shocking to me. How absurd is that? How weird is it that you know we have to ask ourselves, well do we trust the CDC? I mean five years ago, I'd be like, dude that's the CDC, will you shut up? He's in a white coat, he's a doctor, will you sit down? Listen, I said that at the beginning of COVID. I kept the part that they took off of all my commentary

was the part where I said, hey, just listen to Fauci and the CDC. I know these guys, they've been advising me my whole career. Yeah, they've advised me how great I can rely on what they're telling us. And man, that's what I got wrong. Wow, did I get that part wrong and shocked and I can't believe it.

But so my point is, is we serve, no, ideally it never would have happened. And funny is not the right word, but if ideally none of it would happen. Ideally, you know, my life would just keep going and my life was great. And I would say I wouldn't have lost a sibling to suicide, ideally, but I did.

And it almost cost my life, but it didn't. So now I am much stronger. I have a much greater appreciation for life. And I also use my show and I talk to a lot of veterans who maybe, you know, they're tough guys and talk about shooting people in the face, but they all get a little quiet when you talk about mental health.

And then you can break and go, well, let me start by saying I lost a brother. You have these hard as rock guys who they open up a little bit and go, oh. And so my point is, it didn't kill me. And so I am now, ideally it never would have happened if this wouldn't be a problem and I would be a doctor and whatever,

but it happened, I'm now much stronger for it. So in the same sense, yes, this never would have happened nor should it have happened, but we survived. Last summer was beautifully metaphoric. We survived the bullet going by our ear. That wasn't just a bullet. That was a Marxist dictatorship. We are now so much stronger for it

that you have people who are just like, hey, I cut USAID, I don't care. Send the Marines to the border, whatever. You never would have had that Overton window shift without getting that close to death. So again, hilarious isn't the right word. Maybe that's just like a fear response of mine. No, I don't dislike that you frame it that way.

I, it makes you react. It makes one react. To your point about things getting stronger, I've been bringing up for people lately, I heard this French woman who was Russian, been in France since the early 2000s, who was the executive director of Russian TV there. And they got acutely paranoid about her

and she was a Putin operative and she's a Russian, she's a communist, she's infiltrating, blah, blah, blah, blah, and she's written a book about it because it was such a horrible experience. It was all nonsense. And she said, you know, in Russia and the surrounding states, we do not believe the news.

We have been inoculated by the Soviet system. This idea of fake news is matter of fact to us. So when the news says something, know just go over whatever and we the Western Europe and the United States We want to believe what the journalists are saying when in fact The Soviets are actually better equipped to deal with propaganda than we are Yeah, former Soviets, so you have to ask yourself, you know, is it good? Well, if it doesn't kill you, it makes you a lot stronger and it makes you inoculated against it.

It's an objectively good thing. But no, you don't want to learn that. I don't want to learn that lesson. It's not fun. I'd much rather not learn the lesson. Yeah. Now I'm guessing you have ideas about where we're going. So what do you sort of predict for, I mean, I'm using the term us, but how do you see

things going forward? What are you worried about? What are you predicting or can you? I think the biggest thing is that people's willingness to accept radical change and then that's not objectively good or bad. It's just a fact. People are a lot more willing to, you know, I don't like going to the, if you go to the ER at two in the morning and your stomach's bleeding out, you're probably going, yeah, I don't care.

Whatever the doctor has to do. People are a lot more open to radical change. I don't know, I personally like it, I'm personally right leaning, but let's just say objectively, I don't think without an election, I believe, got stolen with a bio weapon coming out with four years of just, we can't give you a tent in North Carolina, but hey, here's a hundred trillion to Ukraine. And you can't do any of those things. I think you have people that are now more willing to take radical steps. And I think radical

steps are what needs to be taken because you don't even have to go on the door every 250 years, the empire. No, no, let's just objectively look at it. We're paying more on interest rates that's here than the DOD budget ever was, or sorry, for the first time ever, interest on the national debt superseded that of the DOD. So you're at a point where it's a now a.k.a mathematical breaking point, which means that one of two things historically happens. The empire dissolves, another hegemon comes in,

and that's a very brutal period over decades and centuries, or the empire does some sort of internal collapse and restructuring and then maybe goes on for another 250 years. I'm biased because I'm alive right now and I don't really want to see the empire where I also happen to live go away. So I think that is what we're seeing, be it tariffs, be it reshoring, be it border, be it tariffs be a reshoring be a border be it You know telling NATO that they're gonna pay whatever they're gonna pay I think that they're the average person is probably a lot more open to radical change now again That's not objectively good or bad. This could very well be the death now. I have no idea

But if I just make the most safe prediction I would say radical change is now gonna happen and it's not just gonna happen on some Twitter thread in 2012 saying Ron Paul's gonna end the Fed. I think if somebody says and the Fed now there's like a legitimate Yeah, they might do that Trump might roll into four knocks with tanks. I have no idea again good or bad. It's interesting Yeah, I don't know. A patient with... You're right. We have come to accept some of this stuff a little more readily and kind of because it's...

I think some people that are sort of in the accepting mode feel like it's so needed, there's something needed to happen. And so it's like, yeah, it's rolling the dice and it's scary. But so let's talk about some of it. Tariffs, you good on that? I know biology. I know nothing about this. And I just don't want,

it's the liberal talking about, he had a belt fed pistol. It's like, that doesn't exist. I can't speak at a turn on tariffs, cause I don't know. I mean, I could say some regurgitated points, but it would be intellectually dishonest. All right, fair enough.

And then Adam and I were talking about DEI. I was wondering if you had any thoughts about that conversation and those policies. DEI is fascinating because it's predicated upon the same bullshit that both sides agree is bullshit. A drug that comes off patent, you know, Modafinil, Armodafinil, insulin, it's off patent now, you know, Staten or whatever, a beta blocker, it comes off patent.

You go, well, why is it so expensive? Well, they sold the patent. Well, how come that cologne's so expensive? It's bottled on the same conveyor belt. Well, one of them says Chanel, and the other one just says like, you know, gas station scent, whatever. Or, you know, you look at a painting and you go,

that looks god awful. And you go, well, this is actually, you know, apolig. And all of a sudden you go, well, this is brilliant. And I'm willing to, and everyone agrees that if it's, if it costs more and it's a bottle of liquor, you go, well, you're buying a brand. Everyone agrees if it's a drug, you go, although it's on patent versus off patent. Everyone agrees when it's an art exhibit, you go, well, you're buying a brand. Everyone agrees if it's a drug, you go, although it's on patent versus off patent.

Everyone agrees when it's an art exhibit, you go, yeah, it's BS and it's probably money laundering. So we all agree that when the titles detach from reality, like Chernobyl, there is no leak. Well, there is. We all agree that when the titles detach from what they represent, that it's a scam, it's dishonest at best and money laundering at worst.

The eye to me is that if you're a good candidate for a law school, if you have a good podcast, go for it. You shouldn't look at, am I a white guy with blue eyes? Do I have purple hair and identify as a fox? None of that should matter. And it is interesting that we all agree when that happens elsewhere, drugs, bottles of liquor, modern art,

that it's horse shit. Oh, you know, the military industrial, it's a $40,000 screw. Well, you know, Northrop Grumman can charge that for a screw. We all agree in every other aspect of life when this happens, that it's nefarious. I think it's just a matter of time before that same logic gets applied to this.

We're in the process of it. It'll take some time, but. I kind of hope that my sincerest wish and fervent hope, to quote a famous person, is that good will come of the excesses. It will be able to keep some of the good, something will be extracted from it. It's usually the way it is.

Usually you look back and go, okay, let that accomplish something. It was a big price, lots of excess, couldn't go on, but all right, we can at least feel good about that, whatever it might be. I've just been through enough historical moments in my life where things that just feel just awful, you just go, oh, all right, well, at least we got that out of it.

Correct, and I think that's probably where we are right now is, again, in hindsight, you wish it didn't happen, but it did. So what can we gather from this? Like, yeah, the slippery slope argument is real. It does get very crazy. It goes from this to, let me teach your kids about, it gets odd.

It gets really, well, just how, it's not 1995 anymore. We can't be the world police with the Dream Team and McDonald's and Michael Jordan. It's like, there's a cost to this. There's a 1995 anymore. We can't be the world police with the dream team and McDonald's and Michael Jordan. It's like, you know, there's a cost to this. There's a legitimate cost. And when everything's awesome, you don't really care about our line item for another aircraft carrier. When you can't take care of people in East Palestine or in,

you know, Hurricane Helene, and you start going, well, why are we giving a hundred million dollars to Sierra Leone to build a railroad that they're not gonna build. There is something good that comes out of it. You know, well, we maybe should look at this. We maybe can't take care of everyone. I'd say that's something good. I agree.

I wish we could, we can't. Again, back to your original sort of frame, reality asserts itself. Reality comes in. There's a physical, there is such a thing as economics. It does tend to, it is a thing and the humans are homo economicus. That's how it works.

What's coming up? Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, I was agreeing with you. It's just, it's, you know, if everyone's looking at, I don't know, an oncoming storm or tsunami, you can say reality is gonna assert itself soon, guys. That tsunami is coming in.

No, it's not a tsunami, that's hate speech. Eventually you go, well, listen, I'm gonna take care of myself, my loved ones. Come on, mom, come on, my brother. I think that's a tsunami. We're gonna go to the high ground. I wish the best for the rest of you guys and I do hope you come with me,

but I'm also not gonna fight you on it. Godspeed. That's another part is reality will assert itself. So try, you know, do your part. It's your moral obligation to speak up if you see something wrong, like the COVID vaccines and the doctors, but you also hit a point where five years later,

I'm like, hey, God bless, my conscious is clean. Whatever's gonna happen, is gonna happen now. And that's kind of where I am now, is I'm going to the high ground. I wish you all the best. Here's an inner tube. I gotta go. I think that's a good place to kind of wrap up.

What's coming up on the podcast? I don't know man just you know continually having I make it all up as I go I've done 1720 episodes I never go in with any notes anything I just wake up and hit the gym drink some coffee and let the fear of God make me not have any dead air. Do you have any thoughts? Last question is sort of, I think a lot these days about hysteria and delusion, because I feel like the, you know, back to Robert Malone and his, he was sort of first to bring up mass formation or what he called mass formation psychosis. And I think that is very real things, speaking of just things asserting themselves just happening and Humans have this tendency to do this

Are you thinking about that at all? I'm constantly preoccupied with you know, like I Thought we'd finished with that in the 20th century turns out it's in it just a feature of the human experience a feature of the human experience? It kind of seems like static electricity or something. It builds up, it doesn't come out of nowhere. If I walk along these wooden floors, I don't get shocked. I'm holding this fuzzy blanket, you're damn well sure I'm gonna get shocked when I touch this thing. It doesn't come out of nowhere.

It might look like it comes out of nowhere, but it builds up. I think what mass formation psychosis is, is that the rising tension in the air, it's a, give me one night of not enough sleep, give me two nights, make the air conditioner go out, make me stub my toe. Eventually I'm going to cuss out a grandmother because it's just the wrong spot. I think that in history and in the future the best formation psychosis is I'll put it this way. I'll frame it more succinctly

Gavrilo Princip shot Archduke Franz Ferdinand and you know set off World War one and World War one cost World War two and World War two Led to the Cold War into the space race. You could say he was the most influential figure ever Not really Anyone would have done that any one person would have done that and that would have set off everything He just happens to be Gavrila Princip, but it could have been Bob Smith. He didn't do anything Profound he pulled the trigger of a gun Congratulations, but it was a spark that one spark wasn't unique But it was a spark and there was a ton of gas and hey we happen to know the sparks name

I think mass formation psychosis, like reveal a principle, it happened to be COVID. It happened to be George Floyd. It happened to be Trump's first term. Really, it's probably to come back to the median incomes going down. Households are split in half. No one stays in marriage. People don't do fentanyl for fun.

Opiates aren't new. There's a reason why opiates are destroying the rust belt. Well, what's the rust belt? Oh, you know, we used to be able to have a job and support your family. Oh, so all of these things happen. I think mass formation psychosis probably happens when everything hits a fever pitch.

It's not that it's anything profound. It was a cough. It just broke the camel's back. It was Gravella Princip. He himself wasn't a unique character, but it did set off World War I and World War II and the Cold War. That's how I look at it is.

So there might be some logic to reshoring American jobs. Like, hey, you know what? Maybe when people are just too tired from the steel mill, they don't go crazy. I don't know, set up some dictatorship and start assassinating. You might need that that you might just need like a median income Be able to eat a hot dog and go fishing once a week with their your son I think that's probably what it is keep it keep it down you you have you next you have moved my

You have moved my thinking on that topic forward and I thank you for that However, I did not expect to be discussing Franz Ferdinand today during this podcast. So, but okay. And if you really want to get into the, if you want to get into the weeds on Franz Ferdinand, do you know that they were trying to blow him up and they failed. And when he went back to the hospital to visit the people

that were injured in the explosion, one of the black hand, which was the group that was trying to assess him, walked out of a sandwich store and saw Franz Ferdinand sitting there. And so he just shot him. And that's where it all went. He thought he fucked up. He was like, I can't believe it. I didn't get the bomb and he sits down. There he goes by again. And it's just like the, ah, you're like, there's takes a gun and you know, it'd be like if Kennedy like went under the overpass and then they came back again. You'd be like, are you kidding me? That's true.

And then at a certain point you start going, did the universe want this to happen? This is kind of, so I don't know. Yeah, no, no, no. I can't tell you. That's kind of your point. Yeah. That's kind of your point. Is it the pressure bells?

Yeah, there was other stuff brewing and that's true. That's the case. So you have moved my thinking forward. I appreciate it. It is underscored Tommy's podcast on X. It is Tommy's podcast.com. I appreciate you being here and keep keep up the good work. Yeah, dude. Thanks for having me.

All right. You got it. Tommy carry everybody. All right. So we have coming up. I remember I mentioned that I think at the outset of the show was swatting victim. That is tomorrow. Sean for us after my show, after Susan's show, Susan Pinsky, 11 to 1 PM Pacific is up there.

So I'll see cracker coming back on the, whoop, there's Susan. They're gonna get into the, you know, the headline is Manson, but I think the realities are gonna be talking about. We're gonna talk about why Sharon Tate was really killed. Yeah, yeah, which is a lot. There's a lot, everything with reality is a lot different than the myth, than the headlines.

But we got Mama Cass's daughter coming on the show and she was friends with Sharon Tate, Mama Cass. So, and it's funny cause I didn't even think of her, but I was kind of talking about doing the show and then she just randomly called me. So I think she's a great guest. All right, Salty Cracker coming back, Jack Posobic, Andrew Grool, our chef friend,

and there's a lot coming, Mark Roberta, a lot coming up, stay with us. I think that does it, Caleb, anything else for you? Tomorrow we're at two o'clock. No, very excited, and yes, I did go down this rabbit hole. Thank you, Susan, and it's wild. To look into the history of the Manson stuff, it's like Manson is kind of like a footnote

to all of this stuff that you're gonna talk about tomorrow. It's the tiniest part of the story. Everybody, he knew everybody. He knows so many rock stars. He was friends with everybody. He was literally like, he was like an up and coming musician and he had all these girls and he was, he just ended up. It's almost like the more you moved away

from societal norms, the more you were revered by this group. Laurel Canyon, everybody gravitated to Laurel Canyon and that's where it all started. And he was like for a minute gonna be an artist. And then he, I don't know, there's something behind the scenes that we don't know about Manson that I think has a connection to Laurel Canyon.

And that's what I wanna find out. And that's my job tomorrow. And it sounds odd when Susan says, oh, he just wanted to be an artist. Like, no and that's what I wanna find out. And that's my job tomorrow. And it sounds odd when Susan says, oh, he just wanted to be an artist. Like, no, that's what they did. They declared themselves, I'm a poet, I'm a musician. Jim Morrison did that. They all did that and some of them were okay at it

and some of them were not and still got elevated. Yeah, their band was really bad. I found out listening to this book is that most of those bands started with studio musicians and they were just, they just made up songs and that's how it started with the birds and Morrison. They were saying that the live, the club visitation was way low because when these bands played live they were shit. There was no studio musician to actually create the music. So there you go. was way low because when these bands played live, they were shit. They were terrible.

There was no studio musician to actually create the music. So there you go. All right, so that is tomorrow 11 a.m. We got better in the time. I don't know. Into this big music scene and this money, there was money and then the anti-establishment, blah, blah, blah.

And it was interesting. If you haven't read the book yet, you have to check it out. We should probably have a picture of that book too. Hear it all tomorrow. We will see you then 11 o'clock for Susan, two o'clock for me, we'll see you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute

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