Ask Dr. Drew - Dr. Eithan Haim: Surgeon Alleged Texas Hospital Ran Secret Sex-Change Program For Minors, Risked 10 Years In Prison To Tell His Story – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 459

Episode Date: March 1, 2025

In 2023, the Biden DOJ indicted Texas surgeon Dr. Eithan Haim for allegedly violating HIPAA by leaking redacted patient data that exposed Texas Children’s Hospital’s secret sex-change operations for minors — despite the hospital’s claims that they had halted. Facing up to 10 years in prison, Haim, a self-described whistleblower, pleaded not guilty, arguing no patient identities were revealed. Charges were dropped in January 2025. Eithan Haim is a General and Trauma Surgeon at Hunt Regional Medical Center in Greenville, TX. He graduated as a General Surgery Resident from Baylor College of Medicine and earned his MD from Florida Atlantic University College of Medicine. Dr. Haim gained national attention for whistleblowing on Texas Children’s Hospital’s illegal sex-change program, facing DOJ charges that were later dropped. Find more at https://x.com/EithanHaim 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Very excited to speak to Dr. Ethan Heim. He's a general trauma surgeon at Hunt Regional Medical Center in Greenville, Texas. He was general surgery resident at Baylor and he gained national attention for whistleblowing at

the Texas Children's Hospital. Well, he's going to tell us the whole story and it's going to be I believe tomorrow a major interview is going to be released. He'll tell us about that as well. So going to be I believe tomorrow a major interview is going to be released. He'll tell us about that as well. So I don't want to waste any time. Let's get he's been very patient with me. Let's get right to this.

Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre psychopath start this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography PTSD PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin, ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f**king sake, where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat.

You have trouble, you can't stop and you want help stopping, I can help. I got a lot to say, I got a lot more to treat. You have trouble, you can't stop, and you might help stop it. I can help. I got a lot to say, I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say.

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Okay, Dr. Haim is a general surgeon, I said, can you imagine he is a very highly respected surgeon who all of a sudden has the Department of Justice pounding his door down, taking him to face charges that were later dropped, of course,

disrupting his whole life. The government has no concern for doing that kind of thing. You can follow Dr. Heim on X. Ethan is his first name, it's called E-I-T-H-A-N. Heim H A N. I'm H A I M or also give send go.com forward slash Texas underscore whistleblower. Dr. Heim, welcome to the program.

Yeah, thank you for having me on. It's a privilege. So tell us this story. I mean, I read some of your bio. You were a decorative resident. You were a great teacher. You were doing your job. You thought you had an important job and you thought you were living.

Let's see how we say this, you were responding to the highest ethical standards that the profession maintains and just by speaking your mind, shit went down. Yeah, I would say that's exactly how, you know, it happened in the encapsulated version. But, you know, all this happened in 2023, right? Between 2018 and 2023, I was a surgical resident at Baylor College of Medicine. You know, I was doing general surgery. And this is one of the most prestigious surgery programs in the country. And yeah, and you know, it's where trauma was born. You had Michael E. DeBakey and you know, Poole, you know, yeah, yeah.

And you know, we heard stories about these guys, you know, as we progressed in our training and these guys were legends. So it was a privilege to be at a place like Baylor College of Medicine. So, you know, I took these things seriously about being a doctor and what it meant to be a surgeon. And in 2022, in part of the residency training, we spent a lot of time at Texas Children's Hospital.

It's part of the consortium which Baylor College of Medicine is, right? Because you rotate at a couple of hospitals. So in 2022, you know, this is after COVID, after the world has gone completely insane. The hospital releases a public statement saying that they are no longer going to prescribe or participate in the transgender interventions because of potential criminal ramifications, right? So they're saying they're shutting down

their transgender program. And this was in response to a opinion that was released a few weeks earlier from the Aegean of Texas, Ken Pagson, that was saying this could be criminal child abuse, which it is. So it makes sense why the hospital would release that statement.

But I knew that this was a lie because I worked there. I was a surgeon there. The people who were doing these surgeries told me they were doing it. And it continued on behind closed doors. And it not only continued, but it was expanded into a multidisciplinary clinic. And this was horrific what they were doing.

So in the same operating rooms where we would take children and heal them, these were the same operating rooms where they were taking perfectly healthy children and implanting puberty blocking devices and turning them into chronic medical patients. So I anonymously blew the whistle in May of 2023 because for a bunch of months during 2022, I didn't believe it, right?

And then I really decided to blow the whistle in January of 2023, but it took me five months to get ahold of a journalist, because most of them just didn't believe me. So the day the story comes out was on May 16th, 2023. The day after Texas passed SB 14, which was a law that was outlawing these interventions for children in Texas. And it was partially passed in response to our story coming out the day before, right?

And then another whistleblower comes out a couple of days later, someone who works in the clinic itself, right? The one that supposedly did not exist. And then the AG announces an investigation to the hospital, and then the hospital says they're shutting down the program for the second time, like 15 months. So the highest possible bar for a whistleblower to cross,

I had crossed. I mean, what we had exposed became illegal within 24 hours. I would argue this has always been illegal because they're harming children and they have no evidence to substantiate what they're doing. But that's a separate point. A month after the story came out, June 23rd, 2023, the story was released in May, a month before. On the day of my graduation from surgical training, one of the most important days of my life, you can understand what that means, right? Two armed federal agents show up to my door like five hours before the ceremony. And they informed me that I'm a target of a criminal investigation.

And, you know, I didn't speak with them that day. But, you know, after they left, they gave me a target letter, right, naming me as a target of an investigation. And my wife and I at that day, but after they left, they gave me a target letter, right, naming me as a target of an investigation. And my wife and I, at that point, we knew what was going on. So, we decided that we had to fight back. And although it sounds completely insane, I mean, we kind of freaked out for about an hour. And then we opened a bottle of champagne

and listened to like Vietnam War music on our patio. And then went to my graduation. Yeah. But, you know, of course the next couple of months, I was still anonymous. And that's when things really devolved into a really bad place. Because the corruption I was seeing

from the Department of Justice was like, I couldn't imagine. I mean, and I was still anonymous. The last thing I wanted to do was take this story public because I'm like a very private person. My wife and I didn't even have social media. But once, after a couple of months, after a couple of really shocking phone calls, the prosecutor had sent agents to my home without reviewing the evidence beforehand, right? That's crazy, that's insane. Like, how can you not do that?

She threatened my wife because my wife is actually a federal prosecutor at the Department of Justice. And yeah, she was undergoing a background check. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she was undergoing a background check at the time. The lead prosecutor, Tina Ansari, said, Andrea, my wife, she's not going to have any problems with her background check unless she continues to become difficult.

What she was referring to was my wife advising me to not speak with the agents without an attorney the first time they showed up in June. But there were a bunch of other things that happened that were frankly illegal for her to do, right? Outside the boundaries of what a prosecutor can do. And we know this because my wife's a prosecutor, but there was one thing that pushed me over the edge. She said that she was going to prosecute me,

bring me to a jury trial, even if she was going to lose, even on a technicality. And the implication of that is, well, it's not about justice, it's about destruction. So that was it. Yeah, and that was like a few weeks after I started my first job as a general surgeon. And at the same time, during these six months,

between June 2023 and January 2024, the hospital had leaked my name to people within the hospital who were leaving these malicious reviews about me online on my doctor profile, accusing me of sexually abusing patients. And we did our own investigation and found out that the person who was writing those reviews, it was the same IP address and it all came from someone inside the hospital.

So it's like these people are going to do everything to destroy me. Like the only thing I can do is to take my story public. And by that point too, we were completely broke because we say we had like $250,000 saved, but all that was gone in legal fees. And we're still about a million dollars in the hole. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a tough situation, but it is what it is. And then I took my story public in January of 2024,

but the indictment only came six months after that, about a year after they first showed up to my home. And the indictment came in June of 2024. And that was when 7 a.m., three heavily armed U.S. Marshals came to my home, right, to serve me at this indictment. And my wife actually recognized them. She knew one of them because she works at the federal office.

So she knows the US Marshals, you know? And, you know, what followed was a series of events that is just boggles your mind. Like what their case involved was so corrupt, was so manifestly corrupt, it's hard to explain because they were using HIPAA as the basis of their indictment. But they were not saying any patient information

was exposed. They were saying the victims of their HIPAA indictment was not any patient, but rather the hospital and its physicians, TCH and Baylor College Medicine. But the prosecutor who was bringing these charges had so many conflicts of interest. I mean, you know, you couldn't throw a tennis ball at her Thanksgiving dinner without hitting a TCH fundraiser, a board member,

or a CEO of a business who had contracts with hospitals under the Baylor College of Medicine Academic Consortium. And once we found this out, she had to remove herself from the position. But, you know, there's so many layers of the corruption, but it all came to a head when, you know, I was criticizing the government and the judge had issued a de facto gag order because I was criticizing the government and the judge had issued a de facto gag order because I was criticizing the government. He threatened me with prison, right, to go to jail if I continue to exert my First Amendment right and criticize the government

for what was obviously their corruption. They had an indictment fall apart because they left a typo, right? They charged me with a non-existent crime. This is the federal government, right? And like, you know, we're going millions of dollars into debt and they can't even proofread their indictments, right? And they have no proof of what they're charging me with. Yeah. And then, so the judge was completely corrupt too, right? I mean, it all came to a head ultimately after Trump was inaugurated.

His executive order ending the weaponization of the Department of Justice when we heard behind closed doors that they were escalating the case when obviously this was in contradiction to his EO. So I decided to speak out against the judge's de facto gag order. And he went completely off his rocker. And I heard from multiple sources that this guy was going to issue a warrant for my arrest unless I signed an agreement with the government. So I signed an agreement that was obviously made under duress.

So I completely had the intention of violating that agreement. But the good thing is that agreement was torn up the next day because the Department of Justice, the transition team issued guidance to the Southern District of Texas that they had to drop this case with prejudice because it had no merit.

It was completely corrupt. And that's what happened. Two days after I broke the judge's fake, corrupt gag order, he had to sign the dismissal of my case. And let me go back around. I've got so many things I want to go back around it. And just to be clear, no information was given out about any children or any family or any specific case. True? Yeah, that's true. In fact, the Department of Justice were the only ones who released patient information in their indictments.

And every time I used the criminal indictment in like an ex post, I censored the initials because you shouldn't do that. I mean, this is patient information. It shouldn't be released. So I didn't. Of course. The Department of Justice did. And they invented this HIPAA violation of the hospital thing, which is, you know, again, I mean, this is how Martha Stewart ended up in prison, right? They kept at her until she made a little slip on something or couldn't remember something and

boom, that's it, you're in prison. And that seems to be the way, I mean, it's easy to weaponize the legal system. It really is pathetically easy. Was your wife shocked by this? Yeah, because my wife knew about me blowing the whistle anonymously before. So she kind of did her own analysis and she's like, of course, there's no chance they can come after you because there's no HIPAA violation. Like I was working at the hospital, the DOJ tried to say that I like hacked into the system, you know, like that I wasn't working there. Did you ever find out who was at that IP address that was saying slanderous things about you? Yes. Yeah.

Okay. Are you going to sue all these people? I hope. So the, what's it, statute of limitations for the person who is writing these reviews has passed. In terms of suing the government, it's like one of those things where it's a whole lot of squeeze, not a lot of juice, because based on my experience so far, it's like going through the court system, these people protect their own. And plus we don't have any money, right? Like we can't pay lawyers to go after this. So it's like- You have a big, a big expose coming out tomorrow.

Is that correct? I think I saw your post on that today. Yeah, it came out yesterday with Casper marriage. Yeah, two days ago. I saw clips of it here and there and stuff. How was that received? Oh yeah, I mean, it's amazing. It's got like 4.2 million views.

It's wild. And it's such a crazy thing because my wife and I, we're just average people. And we live in a small town outside Dallas. I work in an even smaller town. And somehow people are interested

in this story. And for that, I'm ultimately thankful. Ethan, the story, I will tell you why they're interested, because it's not about the gender reassignment stuff. It's about the notion, I guarantee you this is the thought bubble over most people's head. It could happen to me. It could happen to my wife.

It could happen to my husband, to my surgeon, my doctor. It could happen to any of us. What happened to you? Right? By stepping into what you think is right, you're crushed. Yeah, and that's really the most important thing is that, like, it was my duty to blow the whistle because the hospital was lying about a program that was manipulating, mutilating and sterilizing healthy young children. It was my duty as a doctor to do this. So if anyone else in my position had done the same thing under the Biden regime, this is what would have happened.

And we saw this happen to countless other people. I mean, people spent years in prison, right? For doing nothing, for doing their jobs, for telling the truth. And this is at a certain point, like, what kind of world are we delivering our children to? I had my first baby, right, in the middle of all this. You know, an hour after she was born,

I had to leave to go to court. It's just so shocking what's happened to this country in so many respects. I mean, I didn't know this country was capable of these things. Yeah. Happy. Congratulations on the baby. Yeah, she's great.

She's wonderful. So, so we're riding the ship, it seems like. Let's go back and talk about some kind of a of a peer-to-peer conversation here that that most you probably won't get in other settings, which is let me give you my opinion and then you give me yours. Gender dysphoria is a spectrum disorder and the approaches to treatment are many. approaches to treatment are many. The choice of criteria for what patient gets what treatment at what age seems completely empty set.

Like we have zero information and everybody's getting the same treatment at the same age as soon as they raise their hand and say they want it. Which I can't think of any other phenomenon in medicine that is like that. the same age as soon as they raise their hand and say they want it. Which I can't think of any other phenomenon in medicine that is like

that. So ultimately, as you said, it's turning somebody into a chronic patient, which is what people don't understand. These are serious medications, and the transgender individuals that I

know that have been successfully treated understand that approach their condition accordingly and go through much, much assessment, and then take the medicine, and have been helped by it. So my opinion is, it can really help some people, but it's in

common upon our profession to find the right patient for the right treatment at the right time, and I can't think of anything in medicine that you just do one thing no matter what, you know, when the patient says they want it. Yeah.

And, you know, so I agree, but I would challenge you on one point. Because when you think about it, right, it's a psychological issue, gender dysphoria. There's no definitive biological basis for it that we can reliably and accurately determine. You know, in a way that these other interventions like puberty blockers, hormones, surgery, which are designed to treat, right? Those are designed for definitive biological interventions.

Like I've implanted puberty blockers in children with precocious puberty, right? Who have a definitive well-defined endocrine abnormality, right? Mastectomies from cancer, right? For gynecomastia, things like that. But in this case, they are using the most invasive physiological interventions for something

that is psychological in nature. So when you have a doctor who does a informed consent for a patient, I would say that they're never really being informed because the doctor who is doing the informing is fundamentally misinformed about the treatment, about the pathology they're intervening on and the relative success of those interventions.

Because as it stands today, I don't think that we really know, but I do agree that, of course, in some cases, before 2020, this was kind of a fringe thing for older adults. And if it's a fringe thing that isn't made into an algorithm for 11 year old children, then like, you know, I'm not gonna die on that hill, but like, you know, now that it's like being mainstreamed into elementary schools and general pediatricians, which is what was happening at Texas Children's, man, that's a whole different thing.

And this is a crime of the greatest degree. So you're thinking like a surgeon. And as somebody who worked in a psychiatric hospital for 30 years, I will tell you there's almost nothing that has an objective. There's no cokes pastulates in psychiatry, right? And it's one of the big criticisms psychiatry is there's not reproducible biology to, and psychiatry is, when I started in the 80s, it was just beginning to

have a biological basis to it. It was all psychoanalysis before that, really out there stuff, and did horrible things, mind you, psychosurgeries and all kinds of crazy stuff. But you can do neuropsychiatric testing, and those are reproducible quantitative

measurements. Those are measurements. All measurements are not done in the radiology department, right? And people aren't doing it, unfortunately, but you could do that. And to some extent, the mental status exam as issued by a well-trained mental health professional is your stethoscope, is your hands on, is your otoscope? It has meaning, it's not zero meaning. But I get your point, I get your point, and

I think the fact that it's affecting children and it's being done so liberally is really what you're responding to. And again, I've seen it help, I've seen it help people, it's not like it doesn't help. And I've seen it hurt, and

I blame our profession when it hurts, not the patient. We should never be blaming the patients, it's us, it's our profession. And we need more data, it seems to me, it just, and remember, and you're also saying,

I want to push back on one other thing, you're saying that you don't want somebody to take dangerous medication for a psychological disorder. But we do that all the time with SSRIs and antipsychotics and things like that. Why is a estrogen compound in a wholly different class than an SSRI in terms of risk benefit analysis? There's a question here from someone. Okay, please cover if any support comes down from SSRI recovery farms, thousands of PTSD patients are desperate to get rid of the SSRIs, get real PTSD treatment. Okay, so Philip is

getting at the fact that he's saying that we shouldn't use medication, we should do more talk therapy and regulatory sort of interpersonal kinds of therapeutics or behavioral therapeutics. So mental health is a very complicated area. This is why you became a surgeon. You don't want to deal with this stuff I deal with. I'm too simple, you know, I'm like a simple person. Well, and I just know how you guys think and it's great and I'm in awe and I'm grateful for surgeons.

I nothing but good things to say, but it's different on the mental health front. It's so different. It's true. And that's kind of where I live grateful for surgeons. Nothing but good things to say, but it's different on the mental health front, it's so different. That's kind of where I live from my years. Where I have to concede, yeah, I mean, there is a lot of things that are beyond my, realm of understanding just because there's something to say about decades of experience working in a certain field.

Like when you're, like, I mean, especially you, I mean, like I've been listening to you for a long time. I mean, you know, you were in the trenches, right? The one thing I would say that's slightly different about puberty blockers or hormones versus SSRIs and anti-psychotics is the physiological impact on the multiple organ systems. Because when you look at like, for example,

puberty blockers when they're used in tanner stage two, you know, there's no surgery in the world that can affect the changes that puberty blockers do, right? They affect the bones, the blood vessels, the brain, the secondary sexual characteristics, for example, and then hormones too, different than SSRIs and anti-psychotics, you know, to a certain degree, and I see your hormones too, different than SSRIs and anti-psychotics to a certain degree. And I see your point too, but

they have a profound effect on the blood vessels, the heart, the brain, similar to like- Well, but this is the point you made out loud though, which was the risk reward has to be there. Exactly. And has to be presented to

the patient and the family and discussed accordingly and Been be done very very very seriously again We have a friend who's transgender and she always talks about how how serious it is how seriously she takes her condition and her treatment and she got going around 14 or 15 not with blockers just with Estrogenizing hormones and it's been just great And therapy. And therapy too, right? Well, but listen, mostly,

I'm just mortified. Well, here's one last question. I'm mortified that the hospital and the legal system put you through this. And you said something a couple of times, you said, my job is so important.

And so many of us went into medicine because we believe that it was is so important. And so many of us went into medicine because we believe that it was just so important what we were doing. And part of that means doing the right thing and speaking up when we think we have to. And I have sort of two questions. Did you have to think long and hard about speaking up

or you just felt you had to? Which I suspect is the truth. And maybe you consult with a federal prosecuting wife to make sure you're not going to hurt yourself. And number two, what has happened to our hospitals? The fact that they have so much control over physicians is out of control, out of control. Yeah, so it's really for months, I didn't really believe what my eyes were seeing.

I just didn't believe that the largest children's hospital in the world would do something this bad, right? That they would actually say one thing publicly and then three days later, just get back to what they were doing before and then expand their transgender program. But so once it was in January of 2023 that there were two, there was a Grand Rounds lecture and then a Zoom conference that proved beyond

any disbelief that this was true, this was happening because the people were actually talking about how they were concealing what they were doing from state authorities. So it's like, all right, that was enough evidence for me. At that moment, it was very clear I had to do this. So in that way, it was easy. But then to your second question, that's very important too, because when you think about the prosecution in this case,

I didn't know this before, but there's something called interested parties to a prosecution. It's like the people, so TCH and Baylor were the interested parties of the prosecution. They were at every single hearing. They were listed on the criminal docket as interested parties, but they were also the victims of the indictment.

They were also the people we had to get evidence from. So they were also the entities that were severely conflicted with the main prosecutor, right? And it was the hospital that had, you know, there's a lot of evidence that has already been unsealed. You had the chief of surgery at TCH in my belief, well, I'm going to say this very delicately, right? He gave blatantly

false information to the Department of Justice and the FBI in an interview. That false information was used as the main basis for the criminal indictment against me. The DOJ and the FBI knew this evidence was false because they had evidence completely contradicting it for eight months before. And it's my belief, I'm saying this, my belief that this TCH chief of surgery knew that this was false. It's my suspicion of that. I'm not saying he knew it.

I'm saying that I suspect that he knew it because he's in the position to know that this is false, right? And if he- Or maybe he was like you. Maybe he was in the position to know that this is false. Right. Or maybe he was like you, maybe he was in disbelief on the whole thing too. You know, I know his wife is a radical transgender activist. No. Yeah. She was on stage with Kamala Harris, uh, with the pro abortion thing.

You know, they had chosen the one person, right. Who was multiple degrees of separation from me, who I had never met as their star witness, when they had dozens and dozens of people who they could have asked otherwise. Yeah, I'm a little suspicious that they chose this one person specifically. But that goes back to your question is the role of the hospitals and all this, they were all too willing to participate in this corrupt criminal indictment against me and we have the evidence Sorry unsealed. It's like beyond any reasonable doubt. Sorry public, you know

Well, listen And where should people find the interview with? Cudridge yeah, it's on X at Katherine Harridge and then or you know my own page and I also also, for anyone who's interested in helping us out, we're still about a million dollars in debt for our legal bills. And so it's givessendgo.com forward slash Texas underscore whistleblower.

It sucks that we're in this position, we'll probably just pay it off over the next couple decades, but any help is gonna be appreciated. Is she working? Yeah. Your wife working? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I was doing. Is she working? Yeah. Your wife working? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, I was doing surgery earlier today and you know, still busy. Well, listen, thank you. Thank you for doing your interview. Thank you for speaking your truth. Thank you for pulling the curtain back on the way our justice department seems to have been working

or could potentially work again, I guess, right? I mean, unless Congress gets involved in some way, but I don't know how laws could possibly protect you from something like this. If you have somebody who is wielding their power as a federal prosecutor, they can get away with hurting people and they don't care. Yeah, well, there actually are already laws

that make this legal. It's just whether they're going to be enforced. So. All right. Well, listen, thank you for the interview. Appreciate it. And hope you'll check back in with us as this further unfolds. Thank you.

All right. Ethan Haim, thank you so much. Now we're going to take a little break here. We're going to talk to an attorney coming up. Was Marcel able to hang out, Caleb, and get to this part of the show? I don't think so. I don't think she was able to come in

just because of all the technical issues and everything on my side. Oh, damn. I wish somebody had told me that. I would have kept going with Ethan. Is Ethan still there? No, he just logged out. He just logged out.

He had a hard out. All right, he had to go. That's right. I forgot about that too. All right. Well, again, yeah, it's a shorter show. We had some technical problems. I really wanted to talk to him though.

It's so interesting to me. And even though he and I kind of differ on the transgender landscape, just the fact that the government could do that to him. and I kind of differ on the transgender landscape. Just the fact that the government could do that to him. And we just heard Storrs say this over and over again. It's really very disturbing. Let's see. Let's see what you guys are saying.

Let's look at the rants and things. Why don't we do a, you want to do a quick break while we go down the list of people that are commenting right now? All right, let's do a quick break and we go down the list of people that are commenting right now? All right. All right. Let's do a quick break and I'll come back a couple of comments after this. If there was ever a time to be rationally ready, it is now.

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I think. And we love all their products, of course. They are loaded with collagen, the grass-fed, finished beef bone broth. And they go to extremes when it And we love all their products, of course. They are loaded with collagen, the CrossFit Finish Beat bone broth. And they go to extremes when it comes to sourcing their

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What did I say, it is hides? It's not from bones. What did I say? It's not from bones. It's not from hides, it's from bones. I can't even hear myself anymore. We've been through so

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for 15% off your first order or 20% off when you subscribe. So it's weird people on the rants and things are talking about HIPAA violations which we he was exquisitely clear. There were no cases revealed and

when the Department of Justice attempted to release some information about particular cases, he wouldn't even allow them. He redacted even the initials of those cases and anything that would make those cases ident anything that would make those cases identifiable.

The violation was towards the hospital for being an interested party. And of course they would be, I mean, I get that, but it's just so crazy. The whole thing is just so crazy to me.

All right, no, there was no database, no database. No, I'm looking at some questions. Let's see. You have non-binary teenagers get double mastectomies, regret the surgery. It isn't regulated. So Coco, that is the issue, okay? So you have people going in to get treatment, and then they're not happy about it afterwards. That's not the patient's fault. That's not the family's fault.

That's our fault. And it's not even the regulator's fault. It's not the government's fault. That's medicine's fault. We, our job is always to A, select the right patient for the right treatment. B, at the right stage of life, people who don't take development into

account very significantly, they should be. And fully informing the patient with the risk reward of what we're getting into. And all of that we seem to be kind of falling short on, so it is no one's fault but us in

medicine. And God knows we have been falling way short in recent years. It wasn't COVID a great example for you of just how far we could go. I mean, think about it, people are being told to go home and come back when they're blue. That to me was one of the most astonishing experiences of my career. I've never seen anything like it. Let's see, it's far more involved. Let me see. I've never seen anything like it. Let's see, it's far more involved. Let me see.

I'm looking at the restream, Susan, anything that you're seeing? I want to address that one. What are those things called when they catch your attention? Super chat. PTSD, you're absolutely right. PTSD should be treated

psychologically with therapy with what's called emotional regulation through carefully attuned and trauma treatments like EMDR and that kind of thing. However, sometimes pharmacotherapies can be useful, measurably. Again, whoever the doctor is prescribing it can go over the risk reward with you,

the probability of feeling better, staying functional, not having adverse side effects. Now, one of the big areas I think you're going to hear about with going forward is the issue of, and I've done some podcasts on this, maybe we ought to do one on the stream here, of these permanent

sexual dysfunction that some people experience from SSRIs. And the SSRI withdrawal from drugs like Zoloft, Effexor, shoot, I'll think of it just a second, but the dual agents can be horrible, can be miserable. People almost always describe it as brain zaps, which sounds like nothing except it is disabling kinds of these electrical feelings that go up the back of your neck and

into your head and affect your concentration. They are miserable and they can last for years. I had one lady coming off effects or I could only get her down to 8.25 milligrams, which is a tiny, tiny piece of the tablet.

And she was still having them if we could wonder just took her to zero just couldn't be done. And she was still having them if we could wonder, it took her to zero, it just couldn't be done. And by the same token, I've spoken to many people who have persistent essentially numbness of their

genitalia. There's a doctor out there advocating on their behalf and he thinks it's actually a neuropathy of the genital neurons that is causing this. So, here's Stephanie saying I wouldn't be alive if it weren't for

SNRIs like effectsor. And let's see, this is the conundrum, right? These things, it's not that they're not useful. They are useful and they do save lives. And Stephanie here is a patient who

is saying I wouldn't be alive if it were not for the SNRIs, the dual agent, the adnergic and seratnergic dual agent medication. And that's true, I've seen that a million times, and I've seen adverse effects. So we have to, again,

select the right patient for the right treatment. The way we get into the wrong patients is by having people who practice primary care during the majority of the prescribing of these medications, which are all medicines are dangerous.

The American public needs to get through it said, all medication is dangerous, period. You could take 12 Tylenol and be dead in 24 hours. It's liver toxic. All medicines are dangerous is only when the risk reward is worth it.

And we have gotten into a culture here, where we just believe that medication is going to solve all problems. And in a weird way, it is a function of our success with these medication, because they did take away suffering. They were helpful in keeping people well and safe and not suicidal and not suffering. It has been helpful, but it became too, we became too invested in this being the solution for all of the ills of existence. And now people have sort of fallen back to the point where they're looking for just feeling better kinds

of chemicals to put in their body, and they've lost track of what make life's meaningful and what human thriving is all about. So I'm very concerned about the cultural aspect of this more than the more than even the medical aspect. This is how intense Novocaine sounds. Imagine how it looks. Yeah, big time. Novocaine, forming theaters March 14th. And certainly when it and what Dr.

Haim was talking about was it pertains to the dangers of medication and hormone blockers. These things, yeah, they're dangerous, dangerous, dangerous chemicals. If that person is going to die without it, okay, let's go do it.

And let's understand the risk reward. Is there a way to mitigate risk by waiting a certain period of time or doing other kinds of interventions? I don't know, it's outside of my area of expertise. But it seems like in terms of how medicine is practiced, that's how we would do it normally. And why we would take exception to this one medical intervention, very strange that our professional behave like that. Enthusiasm to be helpful for that population, fine, I get it. But to be overtaken by it where you don't contemplate risk reward, that's concerning. Here's Lindy saying, I think any drugs that cause severe adverse reaction should be taken off

the market. Well, that's everything then, Lindy, that's everything. All medicine will have to go away, period, because they all have potential for serious adverse reactions. And the problem is that we don't do

enough education in terms of people being able to understand the risk award when they put a pill in their mouth and the culture supports just putting a pill in the mouth for everything. And I would tell you, do look online for potential side effects. So you are, if you're a physician

or whoever's practicing, clinicians practicing upon you, it doesn't give you the full story. You can at least we live in a day when age where you can find it yourself. The problem is, you'll read all kinds of scary things and

it just becomes blah, blah, blah after a while and you don't know really what your risk is. At least you can go back to whoever is prescribing and say, hey, I read about you mentioned metronidazole, which is flagell. I mentioned that it causes,

I read that it causes depression or it causes a metallic taste in the mouth. How likely is that and how bad is that? Have you seen any problems with that? Reasonable question, because

clinically gives you a different sense of things than just reading about these potential side effects. Okay. All right. I know, Lindy. Yeah. Lindy saying thousands get neurological damage. Yeah, Lindy, I don't know about thousands, but it's rare. You gotta to remember, millions of prescriptions out there. And then what is, again, why do you need it? Do you have giardia and you're going to die of progressive

destructive diarrhea and vomiting? If you don't get that giardia treated, or you get chronic giardia, or you have some other, or we have entire articularitis and you need to take the flagella, it's worth it, you take it.

Even though you know there is some risk of the medication. I've read sometimes the gender dysphoria is resolved as children enter the pubescent stage. Do you think that would make puberty bachers counterproductive? Coco, it's just generally the case

that the developmental aspect of what might be going on here, I don't have a strong opinion, there she is on the screen there. It seems to be being marginalized, no one is talking about it. I mean, you need to look no

further than, now, to be fair, a lot of the psychoanalytic literature has been sort of marginalized or disgraced, whatever. But that's all psychoanalytic literature talks about, is developing a cohesive sense of self and gender and

sexual orientation and developing that across a developmental arc. What do we need for that? What gets in the way of that? What biological features might be contributing? They've not really, maybe they have worked it out, and I'm just not aware, but I don't see where that's been properly worked out or

adequately worked out. We need to study about the record high flu level. Yeah, Janice, I'm not sure that it's a record high flu level. I think we are testing more. I think we're having a bad flu season.

I think that some of what has gone on in terms of people wearing masks and being isolated may have prevented our immune system from being activated in a way that would help fight off influenza. And God knows what COVID or the vaccine had done to our system.

I talked to Dr. Soon Shong last week or a couple weeks ago, and he thinks that our natural killer population T lymphocytes is down and it's having a significant effect on all this. He may be right.

I don't know and we both ask the same question. It's the spike, the spike from COVID or is the spike from the vaccine or both? And why aren't we looking at other vaccines other than the ones that produce large amounts of spike? Yeah, Lindy says the vaccine or both? And why aren't we looking at other vaccines other than the ones that produce large amounts of spike? Yeah, Lindy says the vaccine reduced immunity, but so did COVID. I mean, it clearly did.

So here's the thing. I think the general note today is to understand that you need to be very careful, cautious with, well, certainly cautious with rational, I'm sorry, careful with certitude. When it comes to human biology, it is terribly complicated. And if you have certitude about anything, you do not have proper respect for how biology works and the biological system in which we reside. You should have irrational, excuse me, you should have rational uncertainty at all times. You should be cautious, skeptical, constantly looking at risk reward analysis as you move forward in anything in the human experience. Casey Gates asked me, do I think SSRIs are overprescribed? They are overprescribed and underprescribed. This is the one crazy thing we do in this country. People that really need it

sometimes can't get it, and people that don't need it get too much. We definitely do that with psychostimulants. Let's see, lobotomy or prescribed. So your daddy's talking about lobotomy, psychosurgery, as we used to call that. I worked in a psychiatric hospital as an internist, and when I entered there in the early 80s, it was like a museum of psychiatry.

I ended up acquiring a bunch of the psychosurgery patients who'd had lobotomies and singulotomies in probably the 60s. They were catastrophes. These people were ruined neurologically. And at the same time, psycho were catastrophes. These people were ruined neurologically. And at the same time, psychoanalysts were still running

all over the hospital doing their thing. So I got exposed to all of that. It was like a museum. They used to have, they had one guy that had chronic schizophrenia, and they actually had a arteriovenous shunt in the guy so they could do dialysis on him to remove the schizophrenia form or the psychogenic, excuse me,

the skeetogenic compounds from his blood. Of course, it was all BS. They were doing iron infusions. They were doing magnesium infusions, craziness, trying to struggle with the biology of the brain.

And I get it, it's hard, it's complicated. It's a very, the human animal is very complicated. Yes, Coco, who's been very active the human animal is very complicated. Yes, Coco who's been very active here today, she says SSRIs can be very helpful risk versus work.

That's exactly right. An effective troubleshooting requires me able to feature beliefs in search of the root cause of the problem. The root cause, yeah, silver green. Yes, they were trying to, they were dialyzing patients thinking

that they were removing psychotogens, they called it. There were these things circulating in the blood that made these people psychotic, we'll dialyze it out. Mind you, the same guys were doing insulin shock therapy, cold shock therapy, parainfluenza shock therapy, and then ultimately kind of a brutal form of electric shock therapy. And to be fair, magnets now can be used to put a current through the brain and low levels of electrical discharge through the brain with paralysis and anesthesia, so it's not nearly so gruesome as it used to be, can be very helpful.

My aunt died of depression because she continually refused elective shock therapy. It would have, I don't know if I cured her, but it would have been life-saving for her. And for some people it is. Do I like it? No, I don't like it. Do I worry about side effects? Yes, I've seen Parkinsonism, I've seen thought disturbance, I've seen lots of nasty stuff from shock therapy. They're under anesthesia and they're paralyzed. So the only thing you see is sort of their toes move a little bit

during the electric shock. And that's it. But- I didn't know this little snippet of trivia is that they never actually legally banned lobotomies. It was just a practice that fell out of favor in the 50s and

60s apparently. Look, the guy that invented it with a Spanish neurologist who got the Nobel Prize in medicine for Look It Up, and then an American picked up the practice, and this asshole would carry — I've got pictures of it. Caleb, I'm going to send them to you so you can put them up — would carry the spikes in his coat pocket, do the lobotomies at the bedside. They would put the spike here and then cram it up there and then swipe around. And if the patient didn't get violently ill and vomit and get confused, he would go back

and do it again. And what's fascinating to me, talking, this is appropriate conversation for Dr. Heim, actually. Because at the time, the neurosurgeons were freaking mortified by what these psychiatrists and other guys were doing. They were not trained in

neurosurgery. The neurosurgeons, and what did they do in response to it? They shut their pie holes. They shut up. They just were silent. You don't see the neurosurgeons and what did they do in response to it? They shut their pie holes, they shut up, they just were silent, you don't see the neurosurgeons. Though I've read some sort of real time kinds of papers and things from that era where they're like, we are not commenting, this does not seem good to us. But Dr. Haim could have shut his pie hole.

Will this be looked at the same way one day? I don't know, I don't know. But you certainly wish the neurosurgeons had picked up a little earlier and spoken out. And by the way, because I treated a lot of these people medically years later when they were messed

up neurologically, I saw their records and I saw what they had been through. And they were almost without exception two populations, borderline personality disorder, troublesome females. They were just much like John F

Kennedy's daughter, excuse me, sister Rosemary. They lobotomized her and it was a catastrophe. It's one of the reasons JFK, excuse me, John F Kennedy was so interested in mental health, because of what happened to

Rosemary. And what was the other thing I was going to say about that, I lost my train of thought. Anyway, they were, yeah, troublesome females was one category and the other was drug addicts, alcoholics,

the recalcitrant alcoholics. So Susan, you would have been a real problem. You would have been kind of spiked right up your eyeball. And so, so, so, you know, there it is. That's how they did it. That's how they did it. But I've got pictures of them doing it at the bedside. No, no, not ADHD. No, no, not ADHD. It was really like recalcitrant behavior problems, you know, people that were really, you know, bad drug addicts, alcoholics.

Somebody said they had two vaccines, flu and shingles. Good. And they said I suddenly feel very sick. That's the shingles. The shingles makes you sick. It's a two-parter. You got to do another part on that. I got so sick after the shingles vaccine. And you got to decide, you know, risk reward, everybody. I know people are very down on vaccines right now, but I'm on the record having said there are not enough vaccines. Yeah, you get them both. You get them both. Yeah, and you'll have no reaction. But your sons and I have a reaction to all this stuff. Caleb, I'm looking right now for this picture of the bedside lobotomies.

When you see these pictures, it'll blow your mind. And this guy was a celebrated, he toured around the world, around the country rather, showing other physicians how to do this thing at the bedside. I may have found it.

Well, anyway, so Caleb, you're learning a little something today. This all new information to you. Well, we've talked about the lobotomy stuff before and I'm just, it's horrifying. It's horrifying because I'm looking at pictures and it looks like it's not only him, but he's surrounded by other doctors and other physicians that are just going along with all of this. Is that the one where they're at the bedside and he's got a spike in his hand? He's at the bedside? Can you show that one? Yeah, let's see. Yeah, with the little hammer. Oh yeah. Yes, that's the one. He would tap the hammer to crack the skull. Yeah. Like tipping ice?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an ice pick. It was literally an ice pick and he didn't sterilize it either. That's a crazy thing. You know, it's I don't think he's there. I don't think he carried in his coat pocket. I'm gonna peed on it. Not that bad. It wasn't quite that bad. It was bad, but it wasn't quite that bad.

All right. Anything else going on in the rants or in the restream, Susan? Well, Caleb and I are looking for this picture. Yeah, yes, that's what I was lookingream Susan while Caleb and I are looking for this picture. Yeah. Yes, that's what I was looking for. That's what I was looking for. That's somebody's bedside. The little tiny hammer.

Yeah. And that guy, that guy holding the hammer, the guy with the bear arms, he's not even surgically, he's not even, right, he's not surgically clothed. They just laid the patient in, put their head back and smash that. Look he's put the spike on the eyeball and boink. So appealing huh? So holy crap Stephanie's saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh my God. Go look for that same book has a picture of them with that was somebody with the spike up the eye. If you if you can find that Caleb, let me see if I can find it. No, this is a fairly bloodless procedure I'm happy to tell you, Susan. Because no that's wow we've been here's one here that's, yeah. Yeah, another one. That's not the one I was looking for. One with a guy with his head hanging off the back of the bed and then the spike hanging out.

Some of these I've seen I might not be able to show. Yeah, yeah, I understand. I understand, all right. All right, I give up. All right, all right. Oh, there they go. But again, all right, I give up. All right, all right. Oh, there they go. But again, that guy won the Nobel Prize.

So when you talk about things like settled science. Where are their sleeves? I'm curious. I like the way that's what you're focused on. But let me just say. I mean, look at the guy's tattoo.

You can see his tattoo. Susan's still in the picture. So here's the deal, everybody. Here's the deal. When people say it's settled science, or when people say this is just, this has to be the approach, this is the mandated treatment. Anytime there's anybody centralizing the authority and saying it has to be this way, you end up with spikes through your eyeball. I mean, that's how that happened. That somebody got a Nobel Prize, then academic medicine picked it up,

and then they got control of the regulators and said, this is what you have to do in these people. And if you don't do it, it's malpractice. And then the lawyers got involved. That is how shitty things happen to people. Terrible things. Okay. Science has never settled, Andy, that's true.

Science, it doesn't even make sense to talk about science being settled. Science is a Andy, that's true. Science is, it doesn't make sense to talk about science being settled. Science is a instrument, it's a process, a very delicate instrument, and you apply a hypothesis and the null hypothesis in regards to that thought is either informative or non-informative. That's it, and then you move forward with another experiment. That's it, that's all you can do with science. And over time, you develop a deeper understanding with that instrument of science of what is reality, what the physical universe, the biological universe actually is. Okay.

I think- You have to try everything once, right? Silent murmurs, it looks like the patient is awake. Yes, the patient is awake during the- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God, yeah, it's crazy, right? FPG, clinical science is a different thing. Clinical science is always changing. Oh,

here's our schedule. Yeah, I saw somebody, who did I see at the very bottom on like the 23rd, the 19th? So anyway, there's our guest coming up. Tomorrow. This show is horrible. Because of what we're getting into here. Yeah. All right, let me quickly look at the rants and all. You guys are horrific. All right, we're stopping, we're stopping.

I just think it's important for you to understand how crazy medicine gets and what becomes. Look, the opiate crisis was the same thing. Opiate overprescribing was the exact same thing as psychosurgeries, no different, no different.

A discipline came in, authority came in with this group of specialists. Then they got the regulators, the government, and the lawyers on board, and you had to do it, or you were harming patients. Opiates, same thing. You were interested in suffering.

You were old fashioned. You wanted patients to be miserable. That's why you didn't, I was accused that over and over and over again. Because I wouldn't prescribe. If you ever go to dinner with a group of doctors, beware. Why, what?

It's a blood and guts kind of situation when you're trying to eat your meat. Ha ha ha. You know, Drew's parents, his dad was a doctor too, and I was just like, having dinner right now, can we hold this conversation? And we're always after you to kind of like toughen up a little bit. Honey, toughen up.

I'll take an ice pick to you if you don't watch out. So it's okay. All right. Enough goofing around. Caleb, anything on your front? Yes, Dan, they did turn to fentanyl because they were cut off as opposed to brought into the doctor's office and said, hey, we didn't intend this.

I turned you into a drug addict. I didn't mean to. Let's get you treated. No, they went, you're a bad patient, get out of here. I'm afraid of you. And they go to the streets when that happens.

Caleb, anything in your front before I wrap up? Nothing much. I'm just very grateful I have my TWC kit on hand because of my, I guess I'm getting an upper respiratory infection or something. So yeah, you may want to use if you have the big one, you may want to use one of the inhalers, particularly. Party weekend.

Yeah. And be careful because you're on those immunosuppressives. Be careful because when you get lung infections, they can be all kinds of interesting things. Well, and so that's why I'm, technically I'm going to be waiting. I try to wait two or three days to see if it clears up all naturally on its own, but if it doesn't, then I know I have the generic augmentin in the case, ready to go. Well, none of that, I'll tell you what wouldn't hurt,

what wouldn't be hurtful is one of the, what are called beta two agonists. The, you have, there's some albuterol in there. Albuterol might help you a couple of times a day. Okay. Not the steroid, but the albuterol. Steroid later. If-

Absolutely, I'm writing that down. Okay. Just take it, you gotta be better. We will be here tomorrow at three o'clock. Ha ha ha. Silent murmur. I think I'm going to. We have a USAID whistleblower tomorrow. It's all whistleblower week. That Emily Barsha set up for us and then we have.

This is I am a. Let me see what a singer. She had that song that went viral called Carmageddon that was all over for a while. So we got her. He's going to be interesting. All right, we will do that.

That is at three o'clock Pacific time. We will see you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment.

This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be updated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published.

If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me, call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at DrDoo.com slash help.