Ask Dr. Drew - Dr. Fauci’s Legal Defense Fund: He Was Paid More Than The President, Now He Wants You To Pay His Lawyers – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 659

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

Dr. Fauci was paid a salary higher than the President and qualified for the largest federal retirement pension in US history. Fox News reports Fauci and his wife Dr. Christine Grady “reported a combined $12.6 million net worth in 2021” – up from $7.6 million in 2019, before the pandemic. But after his former top advisor Dr. David Morens pleaded guilty to attempting to conceal COVID documents, Fauci’s team has launched the “Anthony S. Fauci M.D. Legal Defense Fund” in preparation for expected the costs of his legal cases. “If Fauci is tried in federal court,” writes John Leake, “the entire rotten edifice of complicit federal agencies would also be exposed, so don’t hold your breath for the Justice Department to prosecute him.” Also on today’s show: chef Palmer Fortune, who got his sixth DUI in November 2005 with $120 to his name, borrowed $5,000 to get into a North Georgia recovery house, and stayed 19 months. He now owns Palmer’s Hot Chicken, Porch, and Palmer’s Village Café on St. Simon’s Island, Georgia, and hires employees working to get sober. John Leake is the New York Times bestselling author of “Mind Viruses: America’s Irrational Obsessions” and writes a daily investigative report for the Focal Points Substack. He coauthored “Vaccines: Mythology, Ideology, and Reality” with Dr. Peter McCullough and he is secretary of the McCullough Foundation. Follow at https://x.com/johnsearsleake Palmer Fortune is the chef & owner of Palmer’s Hot Chicken, Porch, and Palmer’s Village Café on St. Simon’s Island, Georgia. He hires employees who are working to overcome addiction, and he appeared on Guy Fieri’s Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives in February 2024 speaking about his own recovery and how he helps others. Follow at https://instagram.com/palmershotchicken 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 • BIOPRO - BioPro+® is a natural formula of growth factors and peptides that support how you look, feel & perform. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/biopro⁠⁠⁠⁠ • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Very interesting show today. We will be talking about Dr. Fauci. He qualified for the largest federal retirement pension in U.S. history. But his top advisor, Dr. Dave Morens, pleaded guilty to attempt to conceal COVID documents. And his team has now launched an Anthony S. Fauci MD Legal Defense Fund preparing for something. So joining me to discuss is John Leak, the New York Times bestselling author of Mind Viruses, America's irrational obsessions. Such a great topic.

You know I've been obsessed with this since Dr. Oh boy, I'm going to blank on his name now. Hold on. I'll come up with it a minute. Talk to us about mass formation. Since mass formation was in the public discourse, irrational obsessions in America has become something I have been completely gobsmacked by.

He also is co-author of vaccine mythology. ideology and reality with Dr. McCullough. And he said we should hold our breath for the Department of Justice to prosecute Fauci. The entire rotten edifice of complicit federal agencies would also be exposed. Therefore, they may not take this action. But first up, Chef Palmer Fortune, I'm not sure he's a chef. He said he wasn't a chef during an interview before the show. He got a 60 UI in November 2025 and was left with $120 to his name.

And he borrowed $5,000 to get into a Georgia recovery home where he stayed for a long period of time and is now sober and has been given the gift of desperation that the 12-step addresses. And now he is sober and owner of Palmer's porch, Palmer's Village Cafe. And he is himself giving back to others who are struggling. He is going to be with us in a minute. You've seen him on Guy Fierry's diners, drive-ins, and dives. You can find him. We're going to figure out where this is because they told me he has changed his Instagram. Certainly, you know, it's all on maybe Doc's Place Recovery, the OCS.

We'll find out. We get to him. But first up, we'll take a little break and then we'll intro and get you. We'll talk a little recovery. Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopaths start this right. He was an alcohol. Hall, because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction.

Fentanyl and heroin, ridiculous. I'm a doctor for a shit. I say, where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time, educate adolescents, and to prevent, and to treat.

Do you have trouble? You can't stop, and you want to help stop it. I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. Palmer Fortune, welcome to the show. Well, let's straighten out the social media stuff first. Where can we find you and your organizations?

Hey, thanks for having me, Dr. Drew. Porch, SSI, and then at Palmer's Village Cafe. And describe for as your journey and why giving back becomes so important to you. Well, that's a good question. I was a taker my whole life. I would say today I'm probably still a pretty big taker. But that being said, my first AA meeting I was 19 years old in Nashville, Tennessee. I bounced in and out of treatment jails because of DUIs and some other stuff until I was 33 until 2005.

And I did everything AA asked me to do. I went to the meetings. I went to the cookouts. I chaired the meetings. I got a sponsor. Sponsor was kind of more of a golf buddy, but he was a sponsor nonetheless. less. But the one thing I never did was work the 12 steps. I never worked the 12 steps, those 14 years in and out of AA or Alcoholics Anonymous recovery. Sorry, I will try to keep

Alcoholics Anonymous anonymous in this conversation. But what did your sponsor have you do? Sorry about that, but the short answer when I was, go ahead. I want to ask, what did your sponsor have you do? You give you the short, answer after you answer this little question. What do your sponsor have you do, if not 12th? You said he was a golfing buddy. I fear he may have become a drinking buddy. No, he's still sober. They were good. You know, I was blessed to be around a lot of old timers that kind of just let me flounder in the wind until I was ready. And they were going to let me die or, you know, that's kind of what happened. But, yeah. Judge in Brunswick, Georgia said, you know, Palmer, you're going to die.

I don't know where to recommend you to go, but you need long-term treatment, minimum of a year. We can sit in jail with me for the next three to four years. And my current sponsor at that time, Doc, Bill Disk, we found a place in North Georgia. And my first sponsor there, a guy named Nikki, who literally was instrumental in saving my life. He said, Palmer, do something nice for somebody and don't tell anyone you did it. And Dr. Drew, it took a while to figure out what the hell. even to do. I didn't know what doing something nice without expecting anything in return or telling the world about it. I knew nothing about that. So that's that's kind of where learning how to

give back came from, I guess. Yeah. Some of the most sort of extraordinary recoveries I've seen are people who've been able to educate me about how important it is to give back for their own sobriety. remember a guy named DJ AM recovering cocaine alcohol guy and really an exemplary recovery, bad drug addict. And he gave me a pair of shoes lunch and it was it was something. I was looking at his shoes. He goes, oh, those are cool. And he goes, I'll bring you a pair. And then he did. And I was so blown away. I was embarrassed. And he said, no, no, no. Because of this offering to you today, I stay sober. And I thought, wow, when there's real giving, it gets your attention. It does. Now, This guy got in a plane accident.

My peers strung him out on painkillers and benzodiazepines. He was dead soon after that. So beware. Beware. There's so many horrible things out there waiting to take you down. Not you, anybody in recovery. It's awful. Oh, any of us.

And there's a lot of doctors in recovery. And the ones that I've gotten to know that were instrumental in my life and helping me, get everybody off everything for six months, off everything. for six months. And then you send them to a professional because maybe they have a chance to be honest and they have an idea of what what the problem is. Maybe it's not alcohol. Maybe it's not drugs. But get off everything for six months if it won't kill you by getting off of it and just see what happens after that. That's kind of. I strongly agree. Strongly agree. You can't tell. Yeah, all these kids get diagnosed with bipolar disorder. You can't tell unless they've been absent for six

months you cannot tell. So let me ask this. Tell me about the program and about what you do with, I want to frame it this way. San Francisco is finally doing what you are doing. And their homeless rate is down like a quarter because guess what? They bought recovery. They haven't bought recovery homes. They bought spaces. They put people that know what they're doing into the recovery space, brought the patients in, made them accountable, got them detox, made them work, made them do. One of those numbers you're putting up there, Caleb. Show me that. These are the numbers. It says 4% decline in overall homelessness,

57% population sheltered, 22% decrease in unsheltered homelessness, lowest level since 2011. That's San Francisco. Yeah, this is, yeah, San Francisco County. Yeah. Yeah. They are systematically

treating drug addicts in the street who would otherwise progress and die. And lo and behold, it works. Lo and behold, shocking, everybody. But you're doing it where you are there, Palmer. And it is so important.

The work is so important. And it's based on a treatment program that's free. Cost nothing. And a day when health care expense are out of control and a grave concern. And, oh, did I say the services are free? They're free. Tell me about what you do for the addicts in your programs. Well, an important caveat, I am no longer involved with the recovery program that we opened in 2007.

When I had an opportunity to open another restaurant porch, I didn't have time. I was the owner and operator for 10 years. So I've talked to the judges. I talked to the moms, the grandmas, the, just kind of day-to-day stuff. And that was a lot of work for not a whole lot of pay. And I had a wife and had kids. And so we gave that program away in 2017 because it just really wasn't meant to make money. And the person we gave it to, they kind of ran it down into the ground.

I don't think it was good timing for that person. But then an alumni, who you see in the video of diners, drive-ins, and dives, alumni called me and said, hey, you know, this place is going down. and it's not good right now. It's not the program I went through. And I'm thinking about buying it. And I said, buy it. I gave it to this guy.

What do you mean buy it? Won't he just give it to you? And he said, no, he wants to sell it for $40,000. I said, well, Nate, I don't have any money, but I recommend you buy it. And he did. And the program today is better without me being involved. And it's better than it's ever been. I think the average link to stay in this program is, gosh, I want to say nine

10 months. Now, that's an average number, which is a big number. And the recidivism rate is pretty much off the chain. And Nate's not here to discuss that, so I don't want to throw out numbers. And ours is not free. The program we started was for profit. My sponsor at the time, Doc, said that a board will fire you, Palmer, so you don't want to have anything to do with a board. Just do what your experience was. And my experience of where I was able to get sober, And going to a halfway house is really a privilege, Dr. Drew. Not many people get an opportunity to just kind of leave society for a minute and go and work on themselves. And I was blessed to have that opportunity.

And that's kind of what the program in Brunswick does. There's an entry fee, but people, the men in there have to pay their own rent. They have to work a full-time job, mandatory meeting daily, mandatory call list. They have to call three to five men every day to check on them, how they're doing. No car for the first 90 day. No cell phone for the first 90 days. No contact with family for the first 90 days. Wife, kids, grandparents, whatever.

And we have found that that seems to work. And especially when men are, they go get a job. Like when I was 33 years old and I was in a halfway house, I was borrowing $25 every week from the people I lived with so I could pay my food money into a co-op so I could eat, right? And it's just very, you start to get self-esteem when you're working for it. It's almost like you're paying for your own recovery. And my whole life, my grandmother paid for my recovery and my uncle.

They had a little bit of money. And, you know, I had to run out of money and run out people. And you now give back by doing what? You know, I don't give back much. I sponsor people, but we do own two restaurants that give men an opportunity to work and pay their bills. And they work around sober people, which is pretty awesome. Palmer's Village Cafe that we opened in 2010. The first resident I opened up Docks Place with was a retired chef.

Or not a retired chef. He's just a drunk chef that hadn't worked in three or four years. He was living in his car in Virginia Beach. has cooked for presidents throughout his times as chef. He's a five-star trained chef. And he was the first resident in Doc's Place, and he stayed there 18 months, moved back in with his wife and kids,

and went to work for us, went to work with me at Doc's Place as the first employee. And then I was playing golf in my sponsor because I wanted to open up a lot of Dox Places in Nashville, Tennessee. I wanted to move back to Nashville. That's where I was drunk. And all my friends there were sober,

And I wanted to experience that. My sponsor said, listen, we know of a restaurant that just closed. We know the owner of the building. She walked out yesterday, and there could be an opportunity for you there. And I was all into ego and self, and I wanted to save the world. I thought everyone needed Doc's place. They needed this type of halfway house situation. And he just looked at me and said, listen.

He said, listen, you idiot. You have a five-star train chef working for you at a halfway house. and I was like, that's it. So, J.B., chef J.B. came and we opened up Palmer's Village Cafe together. And that's a pretty, I mean, I get a little teary when I talk about it, because I had nothing to really do with that. I was just kind of present. And that was people and God doing it for me, certainly what I couldn't do for myself.

You mentioned saving the world. I mean, that is a, impulse that people have today that is so unhealthy. It is not something that... I can't even save my own self. Right. Right. And they want to tell other people that... How about all the other people that came before you?

Do they have any input into this? Or it's just such a weird thing we're in right now. But you mentioned essentially alluded to the fact that drug treatment programs are not good businesses, which they are not. If they're done properly, they don't make much money. Andy. How long did you stay in treatment for him? I went to a place called the Hickey House in Helen, Georgia, and I stayed in a little over 19 months. I was playing on staying for two years, but I was down in South Georgia visiting my sponsor doc. And he said, I want you out of there in six

days. It's becoming a crutch. It's time for you to enter society. It's try to give back what you've been given there. And that's, so I took a job with a guy he sponsored. who owned a little company in Brunswick, Georgia. A guy named Trey hired me to sell TVs. And I started selling TVs, and I went to Trey, and I said, Trey, I don't want to sell any TVs anymore, but I really feel like we need to open up something here that offers men the same thing I was just offered in North Georgia.

And so I kept my job. I found a house. I rented it. I told the landlord what I was going to use it for. I had no money. I exchanged the first six months of rent. months of rent and sweat equity to finish out the painting, redoing the floors of the house, and just started moving and just moved in that house myself and waited for the phone to ring.

And the phone rang with someone calling about Chef J.B. That was my first 12-step call. I went and met with J.B. I was, I don't know, 20, 21 months, 22 months sober at the time. And we moved J.B. in the house. And me and J.B. and about 12 other people lived in that house until I was able to move out. So I finally was able to move out a halfway house.

It's great. Yeah, a year to two years is sort of should be average for drug treatment. And it's just unfortunately rare. Though, again, in San Francisco, they are setting things up in such a way that that's how it's organized. There's a place called Haven for Hope, I think it's called Haven for Hope in Houston. And there are lots of these places out there. And they work. And so congratulations.

I don't know about the time left, Dr. Drew, but one thing that's been a real joy, you asked about giving back is, you know, I'm involved of a nonprofit. It's called A-B-O-S Foundation, all because of sobriety foundation. And we raise money for entry fees into long-term treatment for men and women. Our director of it is Nate, who now owns Doc's place. He's not salaried, and it's me and two other people that are the board members, and we're not paid either. We literally just raise money to give to men and women that need access to long-term treatment. Is there a website, A-B-O-S? A-B-O-S Foundation.org. Got it. And where shall people find you? My phone is turned off. They could find me on the X. I think Mr. the producer has my X handle.

I don't know what that is. I don't own a computer, so I'm not real familiar with all this stuff. But they can find me there. Fair enough. Palmer, thank you so much for your work. Thank you for your work. Thank you for having me, Dr. Drew. I appreciate it.

And thank you for all you're trying to do to help people. You got trying. Palmer Fortune. Yeah, I gave a talk, well, I was part of a panel in San Francisco for a documentary group beyond homelessness. and they have, it's a long story, but it's something I've been working on for like eight years.

And they started finally putting things in place. The mayor is doing their job. San Jose mayor is involved. Everyone's involved. And oh, this is what we should be doing. It's like, yeah, yeah. And it's working fast. Very quickly.

They're down, they didn't have enough facilities. They had to buy all the facilities and staff them up. And they're still down 25% for the year, for the two years, I think it is. All right. So we're going to switch gears now.

We're going to talk to John Leake about mind viruses, America's irrational obsessions. I want to start right there, right after this. So as we age, most men notice that they're not getting the same workout results they used to. But a lot of guys are reaching for synthetic hormones. Yes, some guys do get hormone replacement therapy, but you may not be ready for that, or you don't want to have the concerns associated with prescription medication or a needle even. Physicians nationally are recommending products like Biopro Plus, which has natural growth factors and peptides that enhances muscle metabolism and hormonal health. I know tons of guys that are

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dot com slash paleo value for 15% off your first order and 20% off when you subscribe. John Leak, bestselling author, Mind Viruses, America's Irrational Obsessions, writes a daily investigative report for focal point substack. He also co-authored vaccines, mythology, ideology, and reality with Dr. McCullough. And he is secretary at the McCullough Foundation. You can follow him on X. John Sears. Leak, okay, John with an H. years, S-E-A-R-S, like the old store leak, L-E-A-A-K-E.

John, welcome. Thanks for having me, Dr. Drew. You know, I'm obsessed with these mass formation. I mentioned Desmond Matias on the opening remarks. I forgot his name at the time. But I'm obsessed with, I thought that mass formations and crowd hysteria was something of like maybe, maybe the 19th century. at the latest. But lo and behold, it's alive and well. It seems to be a feature of humanity, which I didn't factor into the modern world. What is your, what is your over? So how do you,

how do you understand this landscape generally? Well, I use the Elon Musk parlance of mine virus, an irrational, destructive idea that kind of catches on like a contagion. I mean, it's funny, you probably notice this. I mean, you probably noticed this in your research on addiction work. how irrational ideas they can kind of in an imitative way catch on. Like we're one year, if you're at a cocktail party, if there's a particular notion that has not yet been embraced by a large mass of people, everybody would look at you like you're insane. Like, why on earth would you believe that?

That's insane. But then a year, 18 months later, these ideas kind of catch on. And so an irrational idea that spreads like a contagion, the kind of intellectual forbear of this, and my reading is the Swiss psychoanalyst Carl Jung, who wrote about what he called psychic epidemics. His kind of classic example of this, or the witch hysterias of Europe in the 15th and 16th centuries, where you would get an entire village in Switzerland or the German-speaking lands or the Flemish lands in which you'd have this perception. It was oftentimes the scapegoat was infertile women who were thought to somehow be in league with the devil.

And this is documented while in history, every single one of them in the village or the town or even the city would be rounded up and burned. And so Jung began to contemplate, like, how do these irrational ideas gain this imitative force where suddenly everybody is subscribing to an irrational idea? And, you know, as you said, well, you thought we might have been, humanity might have moved beyond this in the 19th century at the latest. But what Jung observed is that human nature never changes. Not at all. I would say the human brain is still about 250,000 years old, probably doesn't have a single new wrinkle in it. And so these archaic, atavistic, irrational obsessions can start up in any era under any conditions, even a modern industrial nation like ours.

So you use some words there that were code for me. imitative and scapegoat. So I'm wondering if the work of René Gerard has also influenced you in addition to Carl Jung. Yeah, he's another major figure in the book. Both Jung and Gerard are kind of the academic forefathers of my thesis. And yes, as you know, Gerard talked to, you kind of use the fancy Greek word mymesis. People don't really know what to believe. They don't really know what exactly they should even value. So we were very imitative.

He used the word mymesis, a kind of Greek word for imitation, or you hear the word mimic. We sort of mimic each other. And another guy who I've recently started paying very close attention to, he was a psychiatrist or a psychologist who did consulting with the CIA. Very interesting man named Chase Hughes, a fellow Texan, I'm from Dallas. He's from Houston. And he said something in a podcast

that really struck me as I was doing my research. You can get people to believe anything if you convince them that it comports with their identity. So they're part of a particular, call it, they identify with a person, political party or with a club or with a particular religious congregation, it doesn't really matter. But if you can persuade them that this idea comports with your group identity as part of this club, then you can basically get people to believe anything. Conversely, if you just

appeal to their critical reasoning, something like present them with empirical data, you know, I've sometimes have this, I've had a couple of exchanges with Steve Kirsch. Steve seems to think all we have to do is provide people with enough data and that will persuade them. And I don't think it really works that way. You have to show people that what I'm providing you with, the information is something that your favorite group embraces. And then, you know, people will embrace it. with wild a band. Yeah, it's really interesting.

Maybe Steve can convince new, like, young people who were just coming up and being exposed to the data for the first time. But one thing has been shown over and over again. I became obsessed from a few years, maybe a year or so with how I would manage a flat earther. Like, how would I convince these people? And there was a podcast called, You Were Not So Smart, where the guy analyzed all this. this stuff. And then Scott Adams came along and he's a persuasion expert. And I came to learn exactly what Chase Hughes mentioned, which is you have to change their worldview because they're in a social context and they're invested in all those relationships and you're going to rupture them

if they change their ideas. So it's very difficult for these kinds of ideas to change. And you said, you know, we're memetic. Look at the bystander effect. If something dramatic happens, People look around to see what other people are doing. They don't immediately take action. They take in the memetic input of the surrounding. But I'm still of the belief. You said that human nature doesn't change, which fundamentally I agree. But the predominant character structure does shift around a bit.

And I think my own theory is that really memetic passions and mob action and scapegoating becomes particularly severe in if there's been a lot of narcissistic injury, narcissism in the adult population. So a childhood narcissistic injury, narcissism and adulthood, unregulated aggression and envy and all that horrible feelings that narcissists have that they must disavow and focus on someone else, and they do it collectively oftentimes. Anything to my theory?

No, I agree. I agree. I mean, this is Jung's. This is Ewing's theory of the shadow that people have all of these unprocessed, shameful, painful things. So there's a lot of that in the book, this kind of projection. And, you know, I'll just give you an example of, and I'm not sure how you feel about transgender medicine and children. But for me, that as I present my thesis in the book, this is kind of the epitifid. of it. So, you know, we're suddenly told that large swaths of American children between the ages of

12 and 17 are suffering from gender dysphoria. And I think there were surveys done in particular boarding schools back east in which 30 percent of the children said, the girls said, I think I'm suffering from gender dysphoria or vice versa. And this really caught on. And I document this in the book. With Obamacare, with the Affordable Health Care Act, around about 2014, there were some key legal judgments that were our determinations that insurance companies could not deny medical coverage based on sex discrimination. And this was interpreted to mean that transgender medical procedures. So for minors, that would be puberty blockers, administrative. of cross-sex hormones and going up to surgeries like a double mastectomy for teenage girl.

Suddenly, the insurance money was made available for these procedures. And once the money was made available, the social media influencing rapidly followed. Where, surprise, surprise, the money is available for this new epidemic of gender dysphoria and minors. And now we get the epidemic. of gender dysphoria and minors. And where the whole thing just becomes so irrational and destructive, I have a very kind of vivid narrative of this in the book. In the 2024 Olympics were presented with the spectacle of an Algerian boxer

who had already been fallen under grave suspicion for being a male, having male chromosomes. And there he is. just beating the living daylights out of girls in the 2004 Olympics. And I could tell I've done a little amateur boxing, just the speed, the power of the punches. I mean, it's pretty well understood that a professionally trained male boxer can generate about two and a half times more power with a punch than a professionally, on average, professionally trained female. So there was this guy just knocking the daylights out of these girls. And I thought, this is insane. The Olympic Committee has lost its mind. And sure enough, the next year, the committee said, well, you know, actually we are going to have to do PCR tests for chromosomes and including you, Algerian boxer, at which point the boxer says, you know, something, I prefer not to have a chromosome. some tests, which kind of told me everything I needed to know. But we see these spectacles,

and you just think on the face of it, this is insane. And yet, you know, the Olympic Committee embraced it and endorsed it. And this guy won the gold medal in women's Olympic boxing in 2004. Yeah, there have been so many things lately. During COVID, I was thinking it was all some sort of, see, I kind of expected the scapegoating and the, and the mobs. I wanted to write about it in a book I wrote like 15 years ago. One of the reasons I wanted to write about it is the only other time I could find

was so much childhood trauma was pre-revolutionary France. And I thought, oh, this is going to be, this is going to be something like that. But the COVID was so much hysteria driven. There was so much hysterics, but maybe it's at the core. It is sort of scapegoating. But the gender stuff, the climate stuff, COVID, and anything medical, anything medical. And it's the press that is just they are addicted to making any medical story seem like a crazy. What did I hear one the other day?

That was a nothing. And it was a nothing. And they made a meal out of it. But just to give you some examples of the ones I can't remember, monkeypox, bird flu, cyclospora. I mean, how many people do anybody here know that had any of those illnesses or got seriously ill with any of them? And by the way, all of these things been around for a long time. People like me manage that stuff. That's what we worry about.

That's why we're trained. They're not the domain for the press. and they start their domain for people to run hysterically and run under their bed. Well, so I'm glad that you mentioned this. What I think the real value that the book offers is, you know, a lot of us see these different things. It could be the COVID-19 panic. You could be gender dysphoria. It could be, you know, the Russians are coming.

Climate change. The world is going to burn up. And a little girl like Greta Toonberg is. genuinely fearful that, you know, the world is ending. So what are the common elements of this? And what I discovered is there is a script that is a playbook, a script that is applied in all of these. We start with an enormous fear. Something is coming to get us. A novel respiratory, viral illness is emanating out of Wuhan. We all have to be terrified, equally terrified. Even young athletes have to be terrified.

So there's no fine distinctions made. And then the second element is the expert class, someone who is positioned as a supreme authority, a pontiffx maximus, I am science. And anybody who questions me, frankly, questions science. the government expert then offers the solution, the countermeasure, the silver bullet that is going to vanquish this mortal threat that's coming for us. Now, anybody who questions the science, as this is incarnate in somebody like Anthony Fauci, that then NIAID director, is then identified as some kind of danger, a dangerous spreader of misinformation, an anti-vaxxer. When we get into the mind virus of what we were told was resurgent systemic racism,

this was right after Barack Obama was elected, you know, the first African-American president, suddenly there is this surge of systemic racism. And we discovered that the American people is hopelessly infected with bigotry, and we just didn't realize it. So if you question that, then you're a racist, a white supremacist. And you're scapegoated, sort of the finger is pointed at you, get rid of this guy. And so if you're a medical doctor, you're canceled, your license may be pulled, your board certifications may be taken from you. You may be fired from your hospital system. I saw this firsthand in my senior partner, Dr. Peter McCullough, or you might be canceled from

Hollywood or your record contract if you're suddenly accused of being a racist. So we see this script unfold in each of these panics. And then, you know, the final element in all of these is an enormous transfer and oftentimes flat out just creation. of federal money, of public money that is then shoveled off to particular interest groups who are in the business of providing the countermeasures. So, for example, with COVID-19, you may recall on, I think it was March the 26th, 2020. The CARES Act, with the stroke of the keyboard, produced $2.3 trillion out of thin air to distribute to these various sectors of the medical, industrial, pharmaceutical complex that

we were told, you know, are going to save us. So the pernicious lesson, and I think we learned this during the financial crisis of 2008, I have a chapter on that, is that a crisis is a good thing. If you are well positioned, if you are in one of the industries who is close to the government, close to that federal treasury or federal reserve, there's nothing better than a crisis. And so, you know, the ultimate, the ultimate pernicious lesson is, you know, we can't wait for the next crisis, you know, to get up and running. Maybe we even ought to start a crisis. And where, you know, you see the whole thing just come to, you know, it's the kind of apotheosis of absurdity is with COVID-19 where the very same biopharmaceutical complex

that provided the messenger RNA countermeasure, a lot of the same players involved in that were involved in creating the causative agent SARS-CoV-2. Fascinating. So actually create the cross. I can take a little break. I hear you. I hear the implication there. You can follow John on John.

with an H-C-R-S-E-R-S, Leak, L-E-A-A-K-E. Go to focal points.com for the substact. The book, you need to get it. It's vaccines, mythology, ideology, and reality. And, John, when we get back, I want to dig in a little further into what other sort of more, I don't know, I don't want to use these commonly used words. So the sort of underlying factors sets us up to make this worse. For instance, is there foreign influence flying around? Or are we more susceptible to foreign influence?

Or is it the fact, is this such a commonplace phenomenon now? Seems novel to me. I understand it's been happening for a long time. But is this one crisis to the next other than the forces you've mentioned so far, things like social media. Are they, you know, core in terms of core causational influences here? We're going to get back to it right after this. Dr. Drew here.

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I don't see the profession doing anything to really build trust beside you. Happy to be on here. Thank you for having me. You and I see the world the same way. What is it like for you to be the most chiseled and best looking man? in media giving us the information we need. Thank you for the truth. My pleasure.

We are going to take your calls at 8333-3-D-R-A-W. John Leek is here, Secretary of the McCullough Foundation, John Sears Leak on X. John, before I jump into that causational conversation, one of the things I promoted was that Dr. Fauci and his people are putting together a legal defense fund. you've sort of right before Interbraig made the case that, you know, federal funds flowing into properly positioned folks. To me that in those cases, the crises are good, but it sort of speaks to the rot in our government. And I'm wondering if the Department of Justice would even go after Dr. Fauci, lest it exposed all this yuck, so to speak. Yeah, I mean, I sort of felt like people thought I was raining on the parade.

I mean, I applaud. I met both senators, their consummate gentleman, Senator Ron Johnson from Wisconsin and Rand Paul from Kentucky. And I mean, I think they're doing a great job within their venue, the legislative branch of bringing, you know, Fauci into the public forum and questioning him and revealing his malfeasance. But I began to notice the Department of Justice doesn't really want to get into a discovery in an official federal court process because if that were to happen, it would be revealed that the CIA, the Department of Defense, health and human services, all of these federal agencies, I mean, they knew about the origin of SARS-CoV-DG. the causative agent of COVID-19. They knew about Professor Ralph Barrett, Peter Dawzak at EcoHealth Alliance. It was understood that they were working with Shangji Lee at the Wuhan Institute of Virology to make SARS-Bat coronaviruses infectious to humans.

All of this was known. And then it was known that when this thing gets out, by whatever means it got out, there he is on the email talking with his virology. buddy, Christian Anderson, Robert Gary, Eddie Holmes. And they're all saying, Anthony, like, the genome does not look natural. And how do we arrive at this furin cleavage site? It doesn't look, I can't reconcile this with natural evolution. And then two weeks later, the exact same guys expressing their private grave concern in an email with Fauci published the proximal origins of SARS-CoV-2 and nature medicine, in which they say the exact opposite of what

they were saying in private. We saw this, Senator Johnson on August the 16th of this year, just a couple of weeks ago, he publishes Anthony Fauci's text correspondence with his top vaccine safety guy at NIA from John Muscaro, I think, and then Rochelle Walenski. saying, well, it looks like this thing is excluded from first trimester due to fever and cytokine storm. There's a miscarriage risk here. That's what they're saying in private, but then in public. Zero risk.

This is the thing. How do you give informed consent when you are, when you're, it's unbelievable. It's like nothing I've ever seen in terms of the, the medical part of this. lack of informed consent, the lack of risk award analysis. And I feel bad for Michelle Wulenski now because some of the things she was saying were insane at the time. Now I see where it all came from. And I wish she would sing like a bird a little bit about what happened there. Maybe something different happened than what it looks like.

But it looks like I suspect it is what it is. And it was an incredible miscarriage of public health. No wonder people don't trust public health anymore. Now, you could argue, you can argue that there's evidence for a zoonotic origin. I mean, you can argue that origin. The clade of the virus of the COVID-2 that happens to be embedded with the spike protein in this case doesn't exist anywhere in nature. But it has appeared before in their claim, and they haven't tested enough bats. Make your argument, that's fine.

But there's a distinction between biological argument, this is something Van Nuysa Prasad points out, and intelligence. The intelligence has concluded that there's something funny going on, and we can't resolve it fully until China gives us the doubt, which they will never do. And the fact that they will never do it should be part of the intelligence, by the way. But go ahead. Well, I mean, I approach this.

I've written three true crime books, and I have over 20 years learned how to evaluate documentary and witness testimony evidence. I mean, people can argue all kinds of things, The paper trail on this thing is so big that, you know, it would take a New York Times report or not to see it. And this is all just nonsense. I'll tell you something else.

A lot of people are unaware of this. So in 2022, a Dutch team, I don't know if you saw this, but a Dutch team, they did a blast search, a patent database search of a 19 nucleotide sequence that was discovered and SARS-CoV-2. So the Chinese published the genome in early 2020, and then two years later, a Dutch team is looking at this 19 nucleotide sequence

that overlaps a 12 nucleotide sequence coding for the so-called foreign cleavage site. And they say, you know, this is quite a remarkable 19 nucleotide sequence. It kind of doesn't look natural. There are a lot of kind of remarkable things peculiar and remarkable things about this. Let's see if the hand of man has been on this in terms of patenting it. So they do a blast patent database search. They get a perfect match with a 19

nucleotide sequence patented by Stefan Bonsel at the Moderna Corporation in Cambridge, Massachusetts in 2016. They publish their findings in the frontier of virology, of all places. The Daily Mail in Britain picks up the story, publishes it in the Daily Mail, and then of all people, Maria Bartrama at Fox News picks it up or Fox Business picks it up. Okay. So she then is doing just a quarterly report interview with Stefan Bonsel at Moderna. She gets to the end of talking about their lovely quarterly report, you know, the MRNA vaccine, of which the NIAID has a 50% interest.

You know, it's going Gangbusters, awesome quarter, well done, Stefan. And then she says, you know, I saw this report in the Daily Mail. There was this paper that was published. It looks like this 19, this sequence, this genetic sequence was something you patented in 2016. And then he says something that it's like the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. You know, our scientists are looking into it. We'll get back to it. That's so true.

And that's the way these, you know, that's the way these things work is, you know, our scientists are looking into it. You know, Stefan's English always gets shaky when somebody asks him an uncomfortable question. He goes from heavily accented English to like kind of let me get back to you on this. Well, there was no follow up. So you look at the timeline. NIH started working with Moderna in 2016 on this messenger RNA vaccine against SARS-coronavirus. So I don't think it requires any great Colombo to connect the dots on any of this stuff. I don't disagree with you.

But let's go back to my frame, though, as we were moving out of the last segment, underlying causational influences. Let me propose a couple and you tell me if you have more or if I'm off base. Corporations are they too centralized? Are they too so panicky and risk avoidant that they fuel hysteria? Social media, obviously that's a means to, that's a that's a fomite. That's a viral distribution system. We've never had a better one.

Number three, people are starting to, I've seen an extraordinary explosion all of a sudden of people taking aim at women, as though women in places of authority somehow. I mean, the word hysteria was invented to describe a, listen, a sexist, no question about it, but a female hysterical phenomenon at the time back of the 19th century, not the way it works today. but is it is that do women get blamed on these sort of things that's just another part of the human experience of scapegoating any of that real or is there something else kind of underlying all this well or foreign influence or some some other country coming in and are we particularly prone to foreign influence now all all the above so a major communique in the history of the american republic was when um President Eisenhower left office in 1961. He gave his farewell address.

This is a centerpiece of this book. And he said, twice allied Supreme Commander, he said, I am gravely concerned about the undue influence of the military industrial complex. Now, that is remembered. So it's everything from finance to the defense industry to intelligence agencies to the Department of Defense and all of its. tentacles into our society. But Eisenhower went one step further in a way that's not remembered so well. Namely, he talked about an adjunct or a companion of the military industrial complex is the scientific technological elite. And he says, you know, it's no longer the days of a scientist

or a technologist tinkering around in his garage or Sir Isaac Newton, you know, on his family, family farm in Cambridge, Cambridge, her contemplating an apple falling from a tree. Academia, and you know, Brett, Brett Weinstein has talked about this and his brother Eric, for that matter, you know, academia has been sort of marshaled and corralled into this federal grant system complex in which hundreds of millions of dollars, I mean, you know, by one estimate, Professor Ralph Barrack, the recombinant coronavirus guru at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

Over the years, over the decades, he's received hundreds of millions of dollars of grants from the DOD, the Department of Defense, or DARPA, it's, it's defense advance research projects agency. Well, why is the DOD, you ask, interested in methods of recombinant coronavirus? Now, he gave a talk at a DARPA convention in Washington, D.C. in 05 in which he said, it's a bioweapon. There's a potentiality with this technology to create bio-weapons. So you've got the military industrial complex and the scientific technologically elite, but you have another element of this that I think is the chief underlying fuel for incubating and propagating mind viruses. That is, around the year 2011, Congress totally threw in the towel on

even any attempt at fiscal discipline. It's just like, we keep hitting the debt ceiling. Let's blast through it. Let's hit it again. Let's hit it again. I mean, I think like 14 times they've hit the debt ceiling and just blasted through it. So now they've given up. It's just, let's just go for it. you know, drunken sailor, shore leave, probably going to die at sea in a few days. Let's just rock and roll with debt creation. And once you, and our founding fathers warned about this, you know, once the government becomes this instrument for issuing and distributing debt like some kind of wild orgy or something, The discovery, that pernicious lesson, is, well, if we have a panic, if we have a crisis,

if we have some brave threat to national security or public health or public safety or moral safety with racism, you know, let's get cracking because Uncle Sam checkbook in hand is ready to fund. And yet, I mean, the foreign wars are just the start of it. I mean, in many ways, I think the military industrial complex has taken a lot of the lessons that, you know, it learned in terms of exerting power on people abroad in places like North Korea or Vietnam. And it feels to me like a lot of these so-called psychological operations are now.

actually being exercised at home on the American people. Wasn't there a law? Wasn't there a law against that that got reversed just prior to the 2016 presidential election? And it really is after that election that the hysterias climbed like I can't even imagine. There was the Me Too movement before that. That was low key compared to what happened after 2016. Could that be some of the rocket fuel? Well, the primary kind of primary booster that I saw in 2016, and I document this in the book,

the fact of the matter is that the WikiLeaks dump that Julian Assange published in June of 2016. There's just no way you can get around it. it was just so profoundly embarrassing. I mean, it was John Podesta and Hillary Clinton's email correspondence. And I mean, I can't imagine, you know, the damaged control sort of crisis meetings that the DNC and Hillary and Podesta flew into because they're so embarrassing. Well, now, you know, well, I actually saw what was happening in real time because I actually read the WikiLeaks at the time. let's change the subject by talking about not the content. This is the misdirection trick.

It's not the actual content of the leaked emails. You know, that's the rabbit being pulled out of that. Like, look over here, or don't look over there. Let's pull another rabbit out of the hat right here. And that's this proposition that it was the Russians. The Russians hacked the DNS server. the Russians are attempting to influence our elections. Now, I'm not a particularly political guy. I think both political parties are stinkers. But, you know, this was a classic changing the subjects by scapegoating a foreigner. In this case, the Russians. Now, I'm not saying the Russians, you know, aren't looking for ways to gain an advantage and, and, um, uh, conversing. And, um, uh, conversant. And, um, uh, conversing. adversely sabotage the United States as a competitor or as an adversary, but don't fool yourself.

We do the same to the Russians all the time. So this is the fair play of adversarial foreign policy. An argument of my book is that if the American people are a strong, disciplined, well-informed people, which is what the founding fathers had in mind when they framed a constitution of limited government, we really don't need to worry too much about foreigners. I mean, if you're running a tight ship in your home, raising your children well, you don't need to worry that much about external influences because you're building some skills or building some institutional health in the case of the U.S. Republic so that you're resistant to these influences. But

anyway, back to 2016. I mean, the Russians are coming. The Russians hacked the server. All of this is just a bunch of nonsense. But you will notice that it really consumed President Trump's first term. He's just constantly contending with this Russian scapegoat. And then where I saw this is particularly rotten is that I argue in my book that this whole war, this U.S. proxy war against Russia and Ukraine is a very dangerous thing. And it wouldn't surprise me if it escalates. I would even go so far as we're kind of where we were with the Cuban missile crisis at this point or we're approaching that. And this sabotage of President Trump's, ability to have any kind of relationships with the Russians. I mean, even if it's just

de-escalation, I mean, it's like the U.S. government refuses to even talk to the Russians. It's like they're characterized as absolute evil. I see this is a very dangerous thing, a very irrational and a very dangerous thing. And I think there's a long lineage of this, but it really became acute in 2016. John, I love this material. I want to talk to you again soon, and I think everyone needs to go out and read the book.

America's mind viruses, America's irrational obsessions. There's a subtitle. America's declined from Cold War Victor to a house divided against itself. That's very much pertinent to what you were just talking about. And do not

forget the book with Dr. McCullough on the COVID-era nonsense. I'm having trouble finding the top. There's vaccines and it's somewhere around here. I've got another. Vaccines mythology, ideology, ideology, reality. Yep, there it is. Which is really a, a prolific author. I just kind of have books just kind of flying all over the place. Which is amazing. So, Let's wrap it here, unless you have any last comments you'd like to make. Well, I mean, I want to ask you, you know, I read your 2006 paper about narcissism and celebrity. You know, I thought of that paper as we saw these text messages and diaries of Anthony Fauci. It's it's we do, and I think there were psychologists.

I want to say Plenghi, I think was one of the. the names of them. They wrote a book about it seems that in our social era, social media era, we seem to be getting a sort of proliferation of not a full-blown diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder, something that a psychiatrist would say, you know, just a full-blown personality disorder, but these narcissistic traits. And I think, you know, a lack of empathy, being the most extraordinary. And so I think I was talking with Brett Weinstein about this. And he talked about how a lot of the problem with these guys in government now is,

and he gave the example, if you're standing on a beach with your wife and children and there are other people around and the kids are playing together and sort of chattering, watching a sunset or something, you sort of feel a connection with these people who are around you. You get to the sort of command. heights of government. And it seems like there's a selective process whereby we get people occupying those positions who like attention. They like the spotlight on themselves. And they seem to lack

empathy. And we really saw that in Fauci's text message to Wolenski. It's just cold-blooded. It's like, and he even names the, he names the mechanism, the dangerous mechanism. He says, cytokine storm and fever, known mechanisms of inducing miscarriage. So he's stating, like, we know that, but let's flog it anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So let me kind of see if I can parse it out in a way, in a systematic way, which is empathic failure, which is inability to appreciate your impact on another person.

Envy is different than jealousy. Jealousy is, hey, that guy's got something. it makes me feel bad. I'm going to work hard to get what he has. Envy is that guy's got got something I don't have. Makes me feel bad. I have to destroy him. I have to take him down.

The envy is the warm embrace of collectivism. It has always been that. And it's people that love telling other people how to live. And social evil has always been done in the name of goodness. Whether it's Mao or Stalin or Hitler, they all were idealists. our ideologues doing good for humanity. Yeah, it's a little tough right now. But all of, we're going to be in a utopia.

They're utopian. They're going to be doing good for humanity. And I only want what's good. But the problem is their personality construct is stuff that they have no appreciation for other people and their lives. It's all an extension of them. And they love telling other people how to live. The extraordinary thing to me is in this country, lo and behold, is a bunch of people that like that it appears, that want that and go for that, and also become the enforcers.

In addition to there being this group that has to tell you how to live, there has to be a bottom-up participation. German citizens had to want to be soldiers and prison guards. They couldn't have done it otherwise if they'd risen up in the other direction. And it always has this ideological hysteria in it. In fact, I read a book, what's the guy's name? It was about the American ambassador in Germany in 1939, and the other Germans were talking about the hysteria that had gripped Germany. And I thought, oh, there it is. That's the same thing. It's the hysteria again.

So you should be resisting. This was a country built on the government leaving you alone and be suspicious of everything that doesn't stand up to that scrutiny of leaving you. alone. Yes, there can be thing. There can be services. There can be Social Security. We have a lot of things. But when they start dictating lives and start taking assets, this is, we are in the outer space now.

We just have gone and the people that want to do that believe they're doing good and they're doing what people who have done social evil have always done. They will hurt people as a result and they will not make things better for anybody. It never

turns out right. Anyway, here we are. Well, you concur with a central thesis of my book. I mean, we need to view any kind of central power apparatus, particularly the further away with suspicion. And, you know, just to conclude, the founding fathers are major figures in this book. I mean, I go back to the 18th century,

and their view of what we could, could accomplish, what we could build in this young American republic was, you know, government, you know, of the people whereby prudent adult citizens, they don't need a whole bunch of paternalistic, centralized state authority telling them what to do. I mean, I mean, they were coming out of the context of the British colonies in North America who a century had basically had basically just built this little civilization on the East Coast, without any help from London. And then, you know, you get to the French Indian War

and suddenly London wants to get in their affairs. And so the idea is we need limited government. Men need to be governed. But the problem is the governors are also human. So the government needs to be watched and limited. more than anybody. I mean, guys like you and I, we don't have the power to block people up

or put them under house or us. It's the central state that has that. So that's what we need to do. And they have, and they do things that harm people, but because they have qualified immunity, they never feel the consequences of any of their choices.

John, I appreciate you being here. There's always more. I can't wait to dig into this book. But what's coming up next for you? And where do people find you? I mean, it was a lot of work, so I'd be most grateful if you'd log on to Amazon and buy the book. That's kind of my pushing this, the Sisyphus labor of selling a book. Buy the book.

Yes, I know. You can find me, Dr. Peter McCalla and I do a daily substack newsletter called the focal points.com. And the McCullough Foundation, McCulloughFND.org, we're constantly making short documentary films and come support us at the mccullough foundation john i hope to speak to you soon yes sir thank you doctor you got it all right uh we are away tomorrow and thursday wednesday back on thursday am i saying that correctly eric bole steve lans joseph witt derringback dave reuben on the first with winston marshall incredible we'll be in florida with dave uh byling and dan

Aiman on the same show. Very interesting. Namy O'Wolf coming, Dr. Kelly Victory, Nick Holcher. So much great stuff coming. Shane Cashman. Thank you, Emily Barsh. Caleb, anything on your end?

Just letting everyone know who has kids. You do not want to catch what my family just caught from our preschooler this past week. It was two days of hell. It's like 10 times worse than COVID. And I said, go into your, go into your emergency kid and get the, I'll dance atron out, the Zofran, and it stopped vomiting. It saved me. That is the one thing that kept me going because, you know, the two parents of the house,

we still got to take care of the two babies. And that is what kept me going was having that. I was your telehealth. I was your telehealth consult. Thank you for reminding me that. So, that helps so much. No, I was directing. I was ordering you to do it.

And, yeah, there's a lot of virus going around right now. It's kind of wild. There's COVID out there, flu. There's this GI thing. There's a lot of stuff flying around. And everyone's fine, everybody. Wait till the press catches on to it. They'll make some, they'll make a meal out of it.

Watch for it. Watch for it. They made a meal out of the people getting accidentally injected some toxin, some potassium essentially in their spine as opposed to a spinal anesthetic, caused terrible damage. Yes, there was like a little cluster of a severe medical misadventure, malpractice. If we're going to start creating hysteria, every time there's a malpractice action,

we're going to sit around nobody's ever going to go to medicine, period. And the way I always know when they're just trying to make a story out of something is they use the word norovirus instead of what everyone knows has stomach flu. If I see norovirus and a headline, I'm like, come on, guys, you're trying to get clicks. No, they're trying to give you, right, make you hysterical, we'll follow the money. There we go. All right, we'll see everyone.

At Thursday's time is, Caleb, just to be sure, I've got it as two occult. no, I don't have it's 2 o'clock. Let me see. Is it 2 o'clock? Thursday is 2 o'clock. Pacific. I'll see you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky.

Emily Barsh is our content producer. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am

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