Ask Dr. Drew - Dr. Joseph Ladapo: What Florida Got Right About The Pandemic w/ Dr. Kelly Victory – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 231

Episode Date: June 25, 2023

Dr. Joseph Ladapo recently began his second term as Surgeon General of the state of Florida. But his impressive credentials (including an MD from Harvard Med and a PhD in Health Policy) simply aren’t enough for corporate media, which has attacked him relentlessly since his administration’s public departures from the CDC’s pandemic response. Dr. Ladapo returns with Dr. Kelly Victory to discuss why Florida handled COVID differently from most of the world, the constant attacks against his medical policies by non-medical non-experts in the media, and his astonishing life story as a former Navy SEAL. Dr. Joseph Ladapo is the Surgeon General of Florida and professor at University of Florida College of Medicine. He received his MD from Harvard Medical School and a PhD in Health Policy from Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. Dr. Ladapo worked as an associate professor of general internal medicine and a health policy researcher at UCLA David Geffen School of Medicine. He lives in Tampa, Florida with his wife and children. Follow Dr. Ladapo’s official Florida government account at https://twitter.com/FLSurgeonGen Read his book “Transcend Fear: A Blueprint for Mindful Leadership in Public Health” at Amazon.com 「 SPONSORED BY 」 Find out more about the companies that make this show possible and get special discounts on amazing products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors • PRIMAL LIFE - Dr. Drew recommends Primal Life's 100% natural dental products to improve your mouth. Get a sparkling smile by using natural teeth whitener without harsh chemicals. For a limited time, get 60% off at https://drdrew.com/primal • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 WITH DR. KELLY VICTORY 」 Dr. Kelly Victory MD is a board-certified trauma and emergency specialist with over 30 years of clinical experience. She served as CMO for Whole Health Management, delivering on-site healthcare services for Fortune 500 companies. She holds a BS from Duke University and her MD from the University of North Carolina. Follow her at https://earlycovidcare.org and https://twitter.com/DrKellyVictory. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It is our privilege to welcome back the Surgeon General from the state of Florida, Dr. Joseph Latipo. He received his M.D. from Harvard University as well as a Ph.D. in health policy. He has spoken with us before and he has been spot on with pretty much all of his instincts. His latest book, Transcend Fear, a blueprint for mindful leadership in public health. And boy, I could not agree more with the fact that fear is not a public health instrument. In fact, it is a way to damage the public health. So we are going to get into it with Dr. Latipo today. We are out on the restream, Rumble Rants, and the Twitter spaces. Sometimes we have time for calls. Hopefully we'll do that.

Dr. Latipo, in addition to being Surgeon General for the state of Florida, is a professor at University of Florida College of Medicine. He received his general internal medicine and health policy at the Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, lives in Tampa presently. And we will get into it with Dr. Latipo after this. Our laws as it pertains to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction,

fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f***'s sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals.

Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. You can spend thousands of dollars trying to look a few years younger, or you can skip all of that hassle and go with what works. GenuCell Skin Care.

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so much we've created our own bundles so you can try our favorite anti-wrinkle treatments, correcting serums, and ultra retinol creams. Just go to GenuCell.com slash Drew. Use the code Drew for an extra discount and free priority shipping. Again that is GenuCell.com slash Drew. G-E-N-U-C-E-L.com slash D-R-E-W. And you can follow the Florida Surgeon General at FLSurgeonGen. FLSurgeonGen is his social media handle. The book, I want to recommend it again, Transcend Fear, a Blueprint for Mindful Leadership in Public Health. I will once again review Dr. Latipo's pedigree, which is,

again, in addition to surgeon general, he's a professor at University of Florida, College of Medicine, MD from Harvard University, PhD in health policy from Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, associate professor in general internal medicine and health policy at UCLA. Excellent pedigree and something I did not know, was a Navy SEAL please welcome Dr. Joseph Latipo I wasn't a Navy SEAL I wasn't a Navy SEAL okay all right good okay good it seemed too good to be true I was gonna about to I was about to gush all over you I was like dude is there anything you can't do oh man I wish I were good all right but no all right all right you're at least on planet earth with the rest of us

because I have friends who are Navy SEALs, and that's a whole different category of human being. But I would put you in that same category in the sense of your willingness to lead through difficult times. Now, as I recall, last time we spoke, did you do your internal medicine residency at UCLA? Is that correct? I did it in Boston at the Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center.

It's one of Harvard's affiliated hospitals. Harvard School. And then you came over to UCLA. And the part I want to discuss is that community gave you a ration of grief. I don't really know what happened. My guess is that you started speaking about the insanity of some of the policies and just asking questions, which of course was considered somehow anathema to being a good physician, which is, again, this is the bizarre time we went through. What happened there, number one? And number two, given Florida's numbers through the pandemic

and your leadership through the pandemic, is anybody giving you any apologies for Christ's sake? Is anybody saying, I'm sorry, maybe I misjudged or I was a little too harsh? Anything like that happening? Well, first, I really have to thank Governor Ron DeSantis and that man, because if it weren't for the leadership he exhibited, we would never have left California. I would still be, you know, I'd be a professor at UCLA and we'd be living in West LA. And it was the call from his office and his, you remember how, I mean, that guy, they were trying to take him out with their words and their use or really misuse of data

to really disparage his decisions in terms of letting people make their own decisions and live their lives and not just live in the name of COVID-19 virus regulations. So, you know, I'm happy to have been able to work with him and we've continued together to do a lot more good stuff and and it's you're right like you know we said kids healthy kids don't need these completely new experimental mrna cover 19 vaccines that we're still learning about and you know most of the world at least the scientific community with access to the media lost their tops. And look now, like no one's pushing them hardly on kids. And parents have clearly said no, but no apologies have come. You know, it's just one thing or the other, the masking of the kids, everything.

You just, it's sad. You don't hear any apologies or really really an acknowledgement of where people made mistakes in terms of judgment and in terms of interpretation of data and you hear none of that which is unfortunate yeah yeah i uh i don't know if you were still in los angeles at this time but uh i was on the air doing a local show here and you know on a local fox affiliate trying to keep people updated on what was going on. And we brought in a school board member the day they decided to close the schools. Now, I found the footage of this. I'm asking this guy, I'm like, who told you to close

schools? What consultant, what infectious disease expert, where did you get this idea from that it's the right thing to do? He said, it's just the right thing. We decided it's the right thing. That is, but that, that's the kind of insanity was that was guiding policy in healthcare. I've never seen anything like it in my entire career. And you were sort of countering the winds that were blowing and taking all the punches at the time. Is there anything from that time that stands out for you that you're still angry about? You know, I'm not angry about anything. And I'm glad. I don't want to carry around anger.

You know, who wants to carry around anger? That's not a fun emotion to carry around. That being said, I certainly understand why many people would be angry because the, I mean, the media during that time, because even before that time, when I was at UCLA, I was writing articles in the Wall Street Journal, getting a lot of flack for saying things like masks are not going to end this thing. Trying to force people to take new vaccines, trying to force everyone to do it is not going to yield a good outcome because some people absolutely don't, will absolutely, absolutely refuse and it will create more division. So I've been taking flack for a long time, and I would understand why people would be angry,

because when you remember, I mean, in the depths of the belly of the pandemic, if you said something that was this far off, whatever that mainstream message was, I mean, you were really crucified. Holy cow. You would think that, you know, I mean, you would, you were really, really crucified, but I, you know, it's not, I don't, yeah. So no anger. I mean, a lot of things stand out. I think that for many people, many people in the scientific community who have similarly been, been saying things that were not the accepted narrative. Many of us have been out, really just been blown away by the abuse of scientific data and the misrepresentation of data to serve a purpose, the purpose of controlling people's behavior and taking away their autonomy and really dehumanizing them.

So I mean, that will always stand out that there were people that were willing to do that and they're and unfortunately that are still still willing to do that you know i interviewed this uh phd med student who was part of the chorus attacking people who dared to step one inch off the uh off the party line and he completely he he dared to kind of questions a couple things that he got slammed and he started thinking well wait a minute maybe huh what's going on here and he completely came all the way around and and i wanted to interview him because i thought what were you thinking before what he and he said you know what i was thinking was I was afraid. So fear, number one, I was caught in the information that was, the press was pumping. Fear, lack of full story. And I started thinking,

well, why wouldn't you want to save lives? You must be something wrong with you that you want people to die. You must be wanting other people to die, which is while you're taking the position you're taking, which of course could never, ever be the reality. And it's quite the opposite. We could see what the consequences of the excesses were going to be, that they weren't going to save lives and they were going to harm people. There's no other reason to take the position you took another interesting thing joe is i i watched the um the symposium that governor uh de santis put on with the nobel laureates i don't if you remember that early on he got a bunch of nobel laureates together he said explain to me

why i should lock things down and at the end of it he read the literature i talked to jay badacharya about who was there and providing some of the literature and he said he he devoured the literature he understood it and at the end he says i don't see any evidence that a lockdown is a solution and they all went yeah yeah that's our conclusion as well were you there then no i was in los angeles man i was i i read about in the news because I think it was, it was taken down by YouTube, but yeah, just such dark days, right? People, I mean, it's really, it's really profound, but at the same time, you see this in history, you know, just whether you're talking about just the terrible things that humans have sometimes done to other humans in terms of dehumanizing them and you know, slavery way before slavery even in other countries

and around the world and in modern times too. So, but it is really phenomenal that people are willing to, that somehow you can convince a society of a truth that is, you know, when, when society wakes up, it's just so obvious that it was i mean how how did so many people decide to go along with that yeah so do you have a theory i it was odd to me too i still don't get it i still don't know what happened i i i wonder if you know i sometimes i think that sort of the trump derangement created already this hysteria that was sort of bubbling around and then it just went plowy with covid yeah yeah no it's very interesting i i mean i think that i think that i think that there that these kinds of things because it really is profound right because

it's not that i mean people have an orientation toward good like Like there's, you know, that is, yes, there, you know, there are a few people that, that may not come out that way, but boy, you're talking like 0.01%. I mean, people have an orientation toward good. And in, when people, you know, are convinced or may led to believe that, well, this is what good looks like when clearly good doesn't look like that. In this particular case, certainly the media and their messaging contributed. And I think also there's, you know, there's, we are vulnerable to the extent that we are, you know, disconnected from source and disconnected from ourselves and in each other. And that's one of the things I write about in my book because I personally had problems with that, very deep problems with that.

And fortunately, if I hadn't been able to transcend those things with the help of a Navy SEAL, actually, and my wife getting me to them, I'd be very angry. I'd be carrying all that stuff around. But yeah, I think that unfortunately, when people are disconnected from the earth, from themselves, from love and it connects us all, you can be vulnerable to to messaging yeah yeah we talked a little bit about that last time that the childhood trauma is is uh i i believe we went through a pandemic of childhood trauma in the 90s and maybe the 80s 90s maybe even to the 2000s it was just massively present and that you know when you look in history there have been periods of history where that kind of thing has gone on pre Pre-revolutionary France, for instance. And then fast forward 25 years and the guillotines come out. And I actually wrote a chapter about that once that my editor, my publisher wouldn't let me put in a book I wrote because it was too speculative, they thought. But I thought, we will see guillotines. I didn't know about about cancellation i didn't know about social media that became the the public beheading that became the guillotines

before we take a little break here um a couple things i want to talk about very quickly one was uh one thing i am angry about and you tell me if i should still be angry about is you i i believe it was hang on you tell me i believe it was you that brilliantly put out the mobile unit with monoclonal antibodies when the government had bought the supply and was providing it to the states. Then they cut you off, as I recall, when you were in the middle of really doing the distribution work. That was in the days of Alpha and Delta when these monoclonal antibodies did they just they just ended the illness they kept people out of the hospital but there was no public information about that no other state was doing anything aggressive like you guys did and then you got cut off it seemed like to me from the supply is that what happened

more or less and i and this was definitely all governor DeSantis. I have no credit for this. So his leadership, how many doctors are there in this country, right? Hundreds of thousands, there are probably over a million doctors in this country and, you know, hundreds and hundreds of health officials. And Governor DeSantis, of all of them, is the only one who says, well, let's provide a treatment option. And you remember back then, it was, sometimes it was explicit and sometimes it was implicit, but there was clearly, there was an aversion to providing people with treatment with monoclonal antibodies. Doing anything. Doing anything, doing, doing anything, doing any, the steroids have been shown to be useful at that

point. Steroids have been shown to be useful at that point. Fluvoxamine was on the stable and on the table and monoclonal antibodies clearly worked. I took them, I took them and I went out, I did a whole Instagram live about it every day about how I was improving to try to help educate the public. And what I got back was, oh, you're special. You could afford it. No, it's free. Government bought it. You can get it.

And that's when Florida took off with it, I noticed. And then all of a sudden it all stopped. It was just disgusting. It really was disgusting. That was the thing that really helped people. Absolutely. could really help people absolutely because the idea was well the only way we want people to get help is with vaccines or with like staying at home and masking and you know and that's why i was suppressed right because it was always about controlling controlling people's actions and

it's just i mean it's so gross like i don't want to control anyone's actions i want you to do yeah i know whatever the hell you want to do and you know but unfortunately the uh the side that was the dominant party in the dominant force during the pandemic wanted you to do a b c then skip over here and then go back here i mean it's just it's gross like why do you want to do that to human beings let them be i i don't i don't understand why they like doing that. And there seemed to be a group of people that liked following in line with that stuff, no matter how farcical or how far from useful it was. They seemed to like to do that.

And that was very disturbing to see all that. And then to see people sort of behaving like prison guards in certain situations, you sort of get a hint of how that can't happen in a society in these historical yeah what's your emergency yeah i think i just saw my neighbor um have a guest over at his his house i think i think he's that that and yeah that can you come over right so so yeah, so Hitler youth behavior, there was that, that was what the Hitler youth was designed to do. Those kinds of reporting.

And then the, um, I met somebody was screaming at me, uh, when I was trying to get the vaccine to provide screaming at me, where are your papers? And I thought, oh my God,

this is, uh, this is like a scene from a border crossing in a world war two movie. This is really something that this guy, a security guard at my hospital where I've been attending for 35 years, thought this is an okay way to interact with a senior physician. Okay, here we go. I just thought, wow, does it feel good to him to do that?

Why would anybody want to be that guy? But we found a lot of them during this pandemic. Listen, I've got to take a little break pandemic listen well i gotta take a little break we gotta take a little break i want to bring dr kelly victory in here she's got a lot to ask you about too i do want to get a little bit into transgender stuff i think you and i may disagree a little bit on that and so that's kind of why i want to discuss it i want to kind of probe a little bit and um because i i've have a i've been in and around that community a long time, and I have some real specific concerns. And really beyond that, it's up to that community. We'll get into it.

Dr. Joseph Latipo, again, Florida Surgeon General, FL Surgeon Gen. You can follow him on Twitter there. Dr. Kelly Victory joins us after this quick break. I suspect you've seen Susan and I gushing over Paleo Valley products. We love the taste and how well they fit into a paleo-based nutrition regimen. They're delicious and we use them for travel all the time. But there's more. We are huge fans as well of Paleo Valley's grass-fed bone broth protein.

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That is B-I-R-C-H-D-O-L-D dot com slash D-R-E-W. Some platforms have banned the discussion of controversial topics. If this episode ends here, the rest of the show is available at drdrew.tv. There's nothing in medicine that doesn't boil down to a risk benefit calculation it is the mandate public health to consider the impact of any particular mitigation scheme on the entire population this is uncharted territory drew and we welcome dr kelly victory with dr joseph latipo, Floridian Surgeon General. And Kelly, if you remember before the mics heated up today, before Dr. Latipo joined us, we were going over some of the data, the deaths per 100,000 in Florida versus California and Texas

and how well Florida had done. And Caleb, I'm going to give you some shit about this right now. Caleb, who I thought was up on most things, had bought the narrative that somehow Florida was behind because of Dr. Latipo's policies. No, not only did he not harm children, he kept businesses open. They had better outcome in a state filled with high-risk elderly people. So Kelly, I will hand it over to you at this point. And first, Caleb, maybe issue Dr. Latipo an apology. Yes, I believed the hype.

I didn't understand. And I looked at the map earlier today and I had to ask both Dr. Drew and Kelly, am I missing something here? Because I thought that I read a lot of stuff about Florida getting this all wrong because they did it very different. But the numbers seem to show that they're doing really good. They did it all right, Caleb. They did it all right.

Oh, Caleb, here you are letting the data get in the way of a good storyline. Dr. Joe, welcome. Welcome back. Thanks so much for joining us. As we're talking, every day that goes by, the data make it more and more clear that under your leadership and the leadership of Ron DeSantis, Florida clearly was doing something right. And I truly appreciate that. At the risk of beating a dead horse, if you will, I want to go back for a minute to this issue of accountability. You know, it's one thing for, as frustrating as it is for me, for my non-scientific neighbors or family members to have bought this hype hook, line, and sinker from the CDC and the FDA and the powers that be. But you and I and Drew are

physicians. You and I share a common background in public health. What the heck happened to our colleagues? In your estimation, as you said, there are hundreds of thousands of physicians in this country. And with rare exception, they bought into it. I've said from the beginning, I didn't say what I said from the beginning because I'm a good guesser. I didn't talk about the fallacy of masks being social distancing, the danger of lockdowns because I had a crystal ball or was somehow prescient. This is, we've known this stuff for decades. What happened in your estimation to our colleagues? It's always a pleasure to see Dr. Victory. And we go, actually, even though we didn't have a relationship that we were both aware of early on, I still remember being in LA and seeing you

interviewed on that San Diego news station. So that was fun to hear you during the pandemic and offering sense and sanity. That's such a great question. And what happened is still happening. And I actually, one component of it, I think, is Dr. Vinay Prasad, who you may know, a brilliant guy, thoughtful guy, and really cares. cares you think he would be a monster because he's oh you know he's not supporting the mask and all this because uh and you know great guy and something he said that that resonates with me is that one component is that you know docs medical students just they don't get good training with data interpretation and learning how to read studies. And most importantly, learning both how to interpret studies and learning how their interpretations are potentially being manipulated by either intentionally or unintentionally influenced by study authors. I don't know if you guys have read

Dr. Marcia Angels, a former New England Journal of Medicine yeah, I mean, you, it's fascinating, right? These, these, these vaccines are manufactured Pfizer, Moderna, Pfizer, they have a, a terrible history of misleading and it's not something you need to Pfizer. It's all of them, right? Vioxx, that was Merck. They knew data on the increased risk of heart attacks and fatal heart attacks. That was present at the time that their New England Journal of Medicine paper was published. The paper that their drug reps then went around to thousands, if not tens of thousands of clinics in the United States to get doctors to prescribe their drug. So it's just, I mean, and that's how they behave, right? They will go as far as they are allowed to go.

Can I, let's drill into that. Let's drill into Vioxx a little bit since it came up, if you guys don't mind. Because I was aware, I used Vioxx a lot back in the day. I know a few guys were practicing when Vioxx was around. It was one of the most extraordinary anti-inflammatories of all time. And I was aware there was risk from it. And I would inform patients about it. And I use it only in people. I mean, you got to remember, think about some of the incredibly dangerous anti-inflammatories that I'm thinking of one, I can't remember the name of it anymore. It's just not used because it's so dangerous. We use dangerous things as physicians.

Pfizer's problem was that when the FDA said, explain this, they tried to explain it away. If I remember, it was seven deaths. When my patients were withdrawn from Vioxx, I have patients that I follow to this day that have never been the same since that medicine was removed. Now, would they have died of a heart attack? Very unlikely. Very unlikely. So we have this weird thing in this country where we go from one side of the boat to the other. And I'm not trying to whitewash what Pfizer did.

They should have been just open and honest, said this is dangerous, there's some problems with this drug, and here's the risk-reward analysis. And only when it's really worth it should doctors be thinking about using this medication. They didn't. They over-marketed it. And that's part of the problem too. Yeah, but I think Dr. Joe's point, I think your point is well taken that the drug companies, as Dr. Joe is saying, their entire mandate is to make money. They aren't really looking out.

They have a long and storied history of covering things up, of being less than fully honest. And now when you add that component to the fact that they fundamentally own the research journals, our story journals, the Lancet, the BMJ, this is a recipe for disaster. And so I think that Dr. Joe is right that the way the pharmaceutical companies have been allowed to act and to get away with things, and the fact that physicians have been unwittingly trusting of them has probably really contributed. Or duped. That's the bigger problem. Duped, and then the FDA is going

to rescue us from that? No. Come on. There's so many layers to this because the FDA and the pharmaceuticals are the same people. Sure. Right. With the funding of their the drug reviews and and and I I would say I totally hear you I have a total here you hear you dr. drew about patients who benefited right it's not impossible I mean it is effective but I'd say two things right so one thing is to the best my knowledge none of the clinical trials where it was tested showed it doing any better than than other anti-inflammatory drugs I mean mean, I think they were compared to sugar tablets or something like that. It was Celebrex.

It was head-to-head against Celebrex sometimes, yeah. Okay. And, yeah, go ahead. Well, the point is the data was shitty. The data was shitty. It was shitty, and then it was whitewashed. And, again, that's what we're talking about here. What I'm sort of adding the nuance to is that patients get hurt whichever way it cuts.

You know what I mean? When they do shitty things with the data, doctors can't use things that might be worth it. You can't use it because they were so duplicitous. And I'm saying both sides, FDA runs to cover their ass and the Pfizer tries to pretend there's nothing here, nothing to see. Both are, I think, wrong. That's my humble opinion. Yeah, I hear you. So I'll add something to that. So what I would say is that I totally agree because the issue is informed consent, people having information, doctors and patients about what the benefit was, risk profile, which was impossible unless like

you were a doctor and you went and you looked up the data that Pfizer submitted to the FDA. But I would say the second thing, though, is that I think my impression is I think it's a good idea to hold drug companies to pretty high standards. Oh, for sure. For sure. Like, it's not the only Cox, what, Cox One Selective anti-inflammatory drug. There are others, and they're going to have different safety profiles. But if they can get away with not investing more with spending less and making you know comparable prop course they will like that's of course they're at least that's

what they've done historically and I think just to get back to the original quick the reason I'm you know pressing a little bit on with regard to your opinion on what happened to our colleagues is because I think if we don't figure out how this happened, it will absolutely happen again. You know, how you ended up, it is one thing for the lay public to buy into something that isn't so. But when you get the entire medical community, with rare exception, to go along, you really have to ask why. Now, if you look at public health, and I'd love your insights into this, it seems to me, I trained, I don't have a master's in public health, but I did extensive training at the

Harvard School of Public Health and went through a specialized program there. It seems to me over time that what they are doing is focusing far more on cranking out social justice warriors, people who are focused far more on equity, for example, than on things truly related to public health, not focused on informed consent and patient choice and patient advocacy. They're really more socially oriented than anything else. And I think that that probably has led some of this because the people at the helm, insofar as they were trained in public health, I think lost sight of the real mandate of public health, which is to consider the impact of these different mitigation schemes, whether it's masking or school closures or lockdowns on the entire population, the vast majority of whom were at a de minimis risk from COVID in the first place. Oh, absolutely. And Dr. Victor, yeah, it'll totally happen. It's actually still happening. So to just use, I think, a very pertinent example, you know, Florida, we looked at public health data here. We found a signal for an increased cardiac death risk after the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines only in young men. Now, was the data perfect? Was the analysis perfect? No the clinical and the subclinical myocarditis and people who die and never make it to the hospital, never have an autopsy after these vaccines, it's like you're attacking their mom in terms of the way they they they defend this and no and since that

time a study was published in nature that looked it was a similar study 12 to 28 year olds in men and that study lo and behold only in male young males it was another a 70% increased risk of cardiac death. They wrote it off in the study, but are you kidding me? Lose your religion, right? Lose your religion with this worshiping at the mRNA COVID-19 altar. Open your eyes, right? And so it's still with them, right? It's hard for people to lose their religion sometimes, and it's totally totally with us. That's terrible, Dr. Victory, that it is. Are you guys seeing a more stroke and a different,

in addition to more heart issues, more cardiac events? I've suddenly seen a lot of stroke in young people and I'm not used to seeing that. Right. Anybody? Yeah, we haven't analyzed that. And, but it is a concern. It's something that's shown up in some of the safety studies. Obviously, it's all been whitewashed by the FDA. It's like, no, well, we did this other study and the signal wasn't present. So you find it in one study, you don't find it in the other study, and voila, you have your answer. It's not present. You know, that was the Vioxx strategy. That's the point. That was the Vioxx strategy. They're bringing it back for the Vioxx strategy for the vaccine. Right. You got you got 3000 studies showing that ivermectin works and six that say it doesn't. So those are the six that get published. We people focus a lot on what you guys didn't do in Florida that the rest of the world was doing.

You didn't mandate masks. You didn't shut down schools and churches. You didn't really push the lockdown theory or whatever. Talk a little bit about what you did do. Drew brought up the concept of the monoclonal antibodies. But what about the other things? The rest of us were living through therapeutic nihilism. We couldn't prescribe ivermectin. We couldn't use hydroxychloroquine.

It was this ridiculous, I've never lived through this in medicine where I had pharmacists refusing to fill legitimate prescriptions that I was writing. Florida, is my understanding at least, was different. Talk about what you did do that may have contributed to your having these better outcomes than the rest of us. Well, what we did do was use a lot of common sense. And that went from everything from letting doctors prescribe what they thought was best to prescribe for their patients and their clinical judgment, rather than, you know, what you saw in California and many other parts of the country where, you know, people were being disciplined by boards because they were prescribing a medication that someone else didn't agree with. I mean, the person went to med school like you, like,

why can't, you know, they've got a medical license like you, let them exercise their judgment. And so we were very explicit about that and we voiced that, you know, we support doctors taking care of their patients in the ways that they think are best. Something else that we did is we let kids stay in school, even when someone next to them had COVID in the classroom and, you know, and breathe, took two breaths on them when they're walking past each other in the hallway. And we were, you know, we were very explicit about that. And we were just nixing every little sneaky, subvertive, ugly, nasty, desperate attempt to like somehow get masks on little kids.

I mean, what the hell is the obsession with that? You're just obsessed with it. These fires in the Northeast, certainly it's, you know, it's too bad because that is definitely, you know, we're in California. We used to live in California, the air quality is terrible with fires. You see it again. It's like, you know, pre-pandemic, I did not see one story about an N95 when there was, it was like, get out of there, right? Move, you know, avoid bad air. But here's, oh, let's write articles about masks and let's talk more about the mask and let's give the mask out and wear them. I mean, it's like this obsession with these masks. Gee, you know, what in the world is... Yeah, exactly. No, I used to say to people at

cocktail parties, I'd say to fellow physicians, I'd say, I sat next to you in virology class. Like what the hell happened to you? You know, masks, like, are you kidding? You're removing every other chair in your waiting room? Honestly? Like, oh my God, it's just crazy. But I was a psychologist before I was a physician. And I have said from the beginning, I think it's going to be a good decade or more before we understand exactly the damage that we did to kids as a result of this pandemic response. In Florida, do you have any sense for, you know, the rest of the country is kids have lost three plus years of academic achievement, reading, math, you know, underprivileged kids, minority kids really took it on the chin, suffered mercilessly because of this and are woefully behind academically. Do you have a sense in Florida for how kids have fared, you know, because of the more lenient or less restrictive

approach that you guys took? Yeah, much better. So the Harvard, Harvard has a center for something like education policy. I don't remember the, quite the name, but they performed an analysis of maybe every state, but several states and Florida was among them and their findings about overall changes in, you know, loss and, and, in educational milestones and performance for students, it was much more favorable in Florida. And they state that in their results. And it makes sense. In Florida, there were some counties that were, there's some school districts that were sort of trying to take more of the Faucian route with their approach to education. And, you know, Governor DeSantis was very strong

about opposing that and really supporting parents' right to get their kids in school. Well, good for you, because I'll tell you, as I said, it's going to be a long time. It's not just the fact that kids didn't learn to read or to do math or whatever else. It's everything else that happens in school, which is the fact that teachers are the ones who largely pick up on kids' hearing and vision issues. There are lots of things that really we are going to see unprecedented numbers of, you know, in kids as a result of that lockdown. What was your take on, you notice as the pandemic, I'm sure it wasn't lost to you, is the pandemic started to wind down and they just couldn't fuel the flames of fear longer. First rolled out us monkey pox. They tried monkey popox. And when that failed miserably, they tried Marburg

virus for a while. You know, they were kind of getting excited about that. Did you guys even bat an eye in the great state of Florida to those phodemics? Well, we prepare, I mean, we had monkeypox cases here and, you know, we had the antiviral and we also had the genius vaccine. I think it doesn't actually have great data in terms of clinical trials, which is unfortunate. But we had that available here. in terms of clinical trials, which is unfortunate. But we have that available here. And we responded by focusing on providing people with access who wanted any of those products and with education. As you remember early on, I mean, you knew pretty early on that it was fortunately I mean no one wants to have the you know the pox is from from monkeypox and the

skin lesions but unfortunately it was it was night and there was pain was also an issue but in terms of mortality and long-term consequence fortunately it was very extremely limited so that was very, you know, extremely limited. So that was very rare for us. And we monitored the epidemiology of transmission in Florida. But you're right. I mean, it is really fascinating that these forces, FDA, CDC, the media, they just, they love to gin up. They love to gin up fair. And, you know, kind of what Dr. Du and I were talking about, they just, they love to gin up. They love to gin up fair. And, you know, kind of what Dr. Du and I were talking about, we just, you're less susceptible to that stuff when you're, you know, when you're spiritually intact, you know, and you're in. And so that's,

I think that's a great goal. You know, that's a great goal for folks to aspire to. So you don't have to deal, you know, worry about their silly games and you can see them like right when they're coming. The last statistics that I read with regard to the exodus from healthcare of healthcare professionals, not just physicians, but also nurses and ancillary healthcare people, physical therapists and technicians, it was somewhere in the range, it was almost a half a million people left during the pandemic. I'm guessing that Florida fared again a lot better because it was such a welcoming place for people to practice medicine. And you guys probably even picked up a few. I know at one point, Governor DeSantis was incentivizing first responders who are losing their jobs if they refuse to get vaccinated in states like New York to come on down. We'll

happily take you. Do you have any sense for whether or not people did move to Florida in order to practice unfettered medicine or to at least be able to practice without fear of losing their their jobs because they didn't want to take the jabs yeah it totally happened and i i wish i could give you an exact number i think i want to say we've got maybe you know i don't know 60 000 mds with a license here it's i mds and ods maybe i i've got to, but, but yeah, that totally, totally happened. And, you know, it was beyond just doctors and nurses and other people definitely moved here just to be able to have more, more freedom. And of course, Florida is a place where it's a second home for many people like New Yorkers and people, others in the Northeast. But we did

have a lot of people moving here, including in healthcare. And it shows in the real estate prices, unfortunately. It's like someone just turned the ignition on when it was starting in maybe mid. I think you could actually tell sort of the prices started to really climb. I want to say in maybe mid to late 2020, because people were with their feet and moving down here, which they slow down so that we can. You're looking to buy a house. Yeah. There's a massive.

My producer has suggested we take some calls from Twitter spaces. So those of you that want to ask Dr. Latiponi questions, you just push the button in the lower left-hand corner there, and I will bring you up to the podium, and you will stream out on multiple platforms. Yeah. There's one last thing we left out of the conversation about what our peers did. I, one thing I was not aware of that became clear immediately during the pandemic was how many of our peers are employed, their employees. And when their employer said, stand down, don't do anything they dutifully did. And that was frankly a miscarriage of their sacred duty and it was a kind of a disgusting display really go home until you can't breathe was the instruction well i do

yeah i do think that that is a huge issue and and my friend and colleague kat lindley and i've spoken about it she's really pushing this concept of physicians becoming independent again. Physicians, there is too much. You know, it is the pharmacy, you know, pharmacomedical insurance government complex that is controlling the practice of medicine right now. You not only need to get big pharma out of it, the insurance companies are part of the problem as well. And, oh, for sure, I really started there. And then the physician role is really

when you really look at the physician role in these these complexes you're talking about is to absorb liability that's really the one thing where you retain is complete liability for everything that happens that's incredible yeah do you have those more? Those of you who are on Twitter spaces, they're kind of lining up here. I'm going to get to it in just a second. But before, well, okay, let me bring somebody right on up here. Theodore, I think, is the name.

We'll see what the question is. And don't forget, after you click through, you've got to unmute yourself in the lower left-hand corner there as well. There you are. What can we do for you? Well, I'm really concerned about suspending informed consent. And, I mean, I was trained in school that that couldn't happen. And it seems like at the very least an overreach, but I thought it was illegal. Say it again. I don't think we heard the whole question.

I think he said to suspend informed consent. Is that correct? Yeah. And I thought that was illegal. I thought it could not happen. Yeah, I'll let you. And I'm surprised that it happened. It wasn't at the very least an overreach. I thought But let's recognize that informed consent is still something, while I did believe I could give informed consent to my 65-plus-year-old patients about the mRNA vaccine, I did not feel I could give a 30-year-old male informed consent because I didn't know what was going on. I couldn't read the data. And let's remind ourselves, we still, let's take my 75-year-old patients and above, who I believe I helped with the mRNA vaccine, to continue to boost at this point.

There's no informed consent for that. We have no data for that. We are strictly reaching in the dark. Now, part of informed consent is sharing that with your patient. That is sort of a means of informed consent. What do you guys say? Yeah, yeah. I i i i agree i agree and it's uh it's i i i i know that it's a professional duty and to which you know a person would be as dr drew said be open to liability for not for not. And I actually want to just acknowledge one other

point there, which a friend made apparent to me, and I just hadn't connected the dots until he said it, that in fact, the censoring of opposing data and opposing interpretations of that data absolutely was an ethical violation because it robbed people, totally robbed people of the opportunity of the relationship of informed consent. You cannot be informed if there are substantial interpretation, substantial beliefs, scientific beliefs about a treatment that are being suppressed. It's impossible. It's not possible to receive informed consent in that arena. And that's a fact. I agree. And I would just add on to that. You're exactly right. That informed consent is predicated on the concept of the risk-benefit

calculation. And if you don't understand both sides of that risk-benefit calculation, honestly, if you don't, and they way overestimatedimated way over sold the risk of covid to people we knew from the beginning that children you know healthy people under the age frankly of 50 were at a very low risk from covid so they overestimated the risk and they far estimated the benefit of the injections okay they said that they would start remember on, if you take this shot, you, you know, everybody from Rachel Maddow to Anthony Fauci told you, if you take this shot, you won't get COVID. Okay. So when you censor people who are saying other things, like people like me, people, you know, who are shut down, kicked off of social media, couldn't say, no, no, no, you're not understanding the risk side and you're not understanding the benefit side.

If you don't have that, you cannot give informed consent in my opinion. That's right. That's right. Listen, I, you guys, I just saw a little video with Walensky being interviewed in a, in a house session. And she is still saying that people who got the vaccine and COVID didn't transmit. She's saying that out loud in, in, in sworn testimony.

And I, I don't, I don't know that that's, I think that's a new video I just saw because I saw earlier Marjorie Taylor Green asking her which pharma company she was going to work for. After she left, after she left the CDC, I laughed out loud when I saw that.

and, uh, but, but they are, that. But there's a weird unwillingness to come into reality by a lot of people, both on the mask front. I hear the White House is bringing masking back. And on the issues around the efficacy of the just, it's kind of uncanny. And the cognitive biases are, the cognitive dissonance is really alive and well amongst our peers. I think that's another layer to this whole thing, Joe. Yeah, yeah. I mean, absolutely. Many layers. And I'm with you there. It's just, it's so like, someone pinched me, wake me up, wake me up wake me up right right yeah right i'm upside down yeah exactly right okay ligard you're on the speaking uh podium here go ahead or ligard t it's actually it's actually bill all right bill all right good all i got is your what you put there what they show me yeah i know that's part of my last name. Anyway, I'm calling from BC, Canada.

And I have to tell you, if you want to be in a place that's the opposite of Florida, or even California, we're even worse than there. It's BC, Canada. We are still in 2020. We still have vaccine mandates for healthcare workers. We're still vaccinating little kids. It's absolutely insane here. And, you know, I don't know what we can do about it. But, I mean, God help us. It's just awful. It really is. Well, you have a, at least Bill, you have a dreamy prime minister, so you got what you asked for. Yeah.

We have that, all right, Mr. Woke, the wokest of the woke. And BC is even woker than he is. It really is. The COVID thing, you just can't even imagine. They've made it illegal to protest that. They're putting on clinics in elementary schools to jab kids, and they've made it illegal to be anywhere near that protesting that kind of thing. Just crazy. Wow. Well, it's a dream you want to wake up to. Dr. Trudeau. Yeah, exactly. guys man i remember some videos from canada i think that canada was was pretty hype with the

whole diala you know dial the cops if uh if someone's breaking curfew or bringing someone in there right to canada from what i saw are they allowed to fly into the country yet without a vaccine oh in canada yeah i i don't know i don't know i put bill back in the audience there want me to get him back? You know, go back for a second. I do want to say, because that point, Dr. Joe, about weaponizing your neighbors, you know, turning people into the brown shirts. This was really right out of me. Not too much. It is not hyperbole to compare this to what happened in Nazi Germany. You are turning

your neighbors into the brown shirts. I remember it well. They're saying, you know, rat out your neighbor if they have, you know, the, you know, 4th of July barbecue and, you know, and cars show up for the cookout. From a societal perspective, the damage that was done, independent of physical harm that was done to people by the lack of treatment for COVID, the societal damage, the division that happened, far worse than we've had anything from a race perspective. over whether or not you believed in masks or you didn't, whether you were pro-vaccine or you weren't, whether you were believed in the lockdowns or not, I think it is so heinous what has happened. I'm not sure we've ever had a time in our country's history where we were as divided as we are over this COVID response. Well, actually, I'm really glad you raised that,

Dr. Victory, because it's fascinating and sinister, the ability of leadership forces, media forces, other forces, even religious forces, to get people to see other human beings as being the enemy, something, some entity that is subhuman or not deserving of the things that humans are all deserving of is such a powerful tool that we have seen repeated to the detriment of everyone for, you know, just throughout modern history. You shared some examples there. Sadly, we're actually, I know Dr. Drew mentioned the transgender issue or the discussions happening around transgenderism. And sadly, there's even some of it happening there in that in that and I there's just from what there's there's no doubt that some of the forces behind the behind the, you know, the exponential increase, it's are not biologic.

There's just there's no doubt that they're, they're beyond biological forces that are, that, that have driven the growth, but those forces, while they are not for the benefit of, of, of human beings or the benefit of health, they, they, they have sometimes made it hard for people to distinguish between the forces and the individuals, you know, who might, you know, report or say that they experienced transgender, gender dysphoria, or whatever it is that they are experiencing. And unfortunately, some of that is happening now. And it really saddens my heart that we've gone from what almost all parents support, which is not sexualizing children. gay, straight, doesn't matter. I mean, parents, you know, universally, they don't want kids sexualized. They don't want kids to be exposed to forces that are not appropriate for little

children and the innocence and the beauty of little children. Parents don't want that but you know that but unfortunately we kind of instead of remaining there you know it's become for many people um something that is uh just many people around the country something that is targeted toward the individuals and it's, it's actually the very same, it's, it's actually the very same, same energy, the same entity that was making, that made, you know, vaccinated people say that unvaccinated people weren't worthy of their keeping their jobs or feeding their families or coming into a restaurant, you know, and, and they deserve it. And, and, you know, oh, he or she brought it on him or herself when they were fired from that job. It's actually, it's the same thing. You know, it's just like, we have to stop allowing ourselves to be manipulated into

seeing other human beings as being something other than other human beings, other representations of God. Well, and I think that that's really what leads me to believe that there are evil forces at work here because a house divided cannot stand, that it's this purposeful attempt to divide us. They don't really care along what lines. As long as we are all fighting, you cannot band together. And I will also say that there is no carve out, there was no caveat in the Constitution and certainly the Bill of Rights for a pandemic. So the idea that we would somehow put our God given rights, and again, this is back

to your point, people have got to remind themselves of our founding, to remind themselves of the very fundamental constructs of this country, which is that we're based on the idea that we have rights that were imbued to us by God, not by our government, and therefore they cannot be taken away by our governments. And I think it's really fundamentally, we've gotten to this place because people have lost sight of that or never knew it in the first place. God knows we don't even teach it anymore, I don't think, in school. So we have an entire generation or two of people who don't even know what the foundation of this country really was about. Yeah, no, absolutely. And those men were, boy, gosh, talk about being, you know, chosen by God. I mean, just really blessed preachers.

You know, those men that founded this country, George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Adams, you know, with whatever, you know, with his flaws. And Thomas Jefferson. I mean, you know, with the you know with his flaws or and and thomas jefferson i mean that you know you know it it's so funny it's it's like instead of people want to focus on their their shortcomings so-and-so owns slaves you know is the first of all and it's and it's messed up because it's it's like it's kind of silly because how the heck would you have done you 300 years ago everybody believes they would have been the one everybody believes that they also believe they've been in germany they would have not gone along with things they believe that they would not know everyone that's the narcissism of the present moment that that is presentism full on never mind just the the wisdom of their work and their ability to the courage they exhibited right we you know hang together we surely will hang you know and hang separately

never mind that courage and that that brilliance and the wisdom never mind that you know so and so um you know own own slaves or someone so you know said this about women or i mean you know it's just it's like no buddy you're you're missing yeah you're missing the lesson here yeah exactly well i'm i'm cognizant of of the clock here winding down, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate you spending an hour plus of your time, given all you've got calling it right. You've been calling strikes and balls, and you've been a good umpire. And your instincts are good. Your understanding is good. And you've been trying to make good decisions on behalf of patients and the people you're responsible for there in Florida. So we appreciate you very, very much and appreciate you coming on with us.

The results are unassailable, Dr. Joe. So, you know, as my grandmother used to say, the proof is in the pudding and the great state of Florida has you to thank for it. So, thank you. And let's go get the book. Let's everybody get the book, Transcend Fear, did I get the name right?

Is that correct? Let's put it up there again. There it is, Transcend Fear. Let's get the name right is that correct let's put it up there again there it is transcend fear let's get the book read about it i suspect you will agree with most of it i'm sorry say again fair enough i said i have to thank governor desantis i wouldn't be i wouldn't even you know i wouldn't have the opportunity to you know to to be in a position of leadership without him so yeah how did he just had a curious how did I'm very curious. How did he find you? Joe, how did he find you? Did he just, he was reading your Wall Street Journal articles?

Actually, you mentioned Dr. Jay Bhattacharya. And, yeah, I've never asked him, but my understanding is, and we have a great relationship, Governor DeSantis. He's very kind. His heart is totally in the right place. I would never, there's no other governor I would work for in this country. Well, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, apparently, you know, they were looking for a new guy and apparently he recommended me and maybe a couple other, few other people recommended me. And then I got a phone call and then I talked to my wife and she said, do it.

Move to Florida, everybody. And last time you were here, I swore I was going to come to Tallahassee and visit. I really need to make an effort to do that. So I'm going to try to come by in the fall, at least shake your hand. I really want to do that. Well, I'll tell you, truth to tell, I'm part of the same big group that you were part of, the big COVID group with Jay Bhattacharya and Harvey Reich and Peter McCullough and all of us. And we were all super excited that you got tapped for this and then at the same time bummed because you dropped off of our group. And we said we just lost a great contributor to our group,

but everyone was cheering for you, and you've gone on and obviously taken Florida to a great place through this pandemic, and I'm sure you've got lots more leadership to share with them. So, again, we appreciate you taking the time out to join us and share your wisdom, and I'm sure we'll keep in touch. We will let you go. Let's do it again. We'll let you go so you can go back share your wisdom. I'm sure we'll keep in touch. Let's do it again. We'll let you go so you can go back to your job. Thank you so much. Kelly, I'm going to keep you.

Joseph Latipa, everybody. Kelly, do you have a few minutes to take maybe a couple more calls? There are a bunch of hands up here. Want me to try to do that? Caleb has a hard out. Hold on. I can do five minutes. I can do five minutes. Caleb has a hard out. I can do five minutes. I can do five. Five minutes. Five minutes.

All right. Let me. This is Shine Five. I don't know what that means, but you guys with your screen names. I'm left with just that, really. There you are. Shine, what's up? Just a question.

I come on to listen to your show a lot. I've heard some talk regarding, you know, vaccinated versus of, you know, having separate, you know, blood available for people who are vaxxed or unvaxxed? Yeah, I'm kind of concerned about that. Well, I think you are rightly concerned. Yeah, I think you are rightly concerned about it. I've been speaking about this and raising the alarm flag about the security of the blood supply as a result of this, because clearly there are gobs of spike proteins in the blood of people who have been vaccinated. Unfortunately, the red cross— Or COVID, too. COVID, too. Right?

I mean, just COVID was spike, too. You got a bunch of virus around. Yes, but theoretically, if somebody's sick with COVID, they're not going in and donating blood. You know, those spike proteins clear quickly. So that is not the case with people who've been vaccinated. They have those spike proteins for a long, long time, upwards of a year it now appears. So the reality is the Red Cross is not differentiating between the blood of people

who are vaccinated and those who are not. So there's no way to know. I have suggested to people that if you were going to have an elective surgery where you thought there was a high likelihood that you might need blood, that you can certainly go in and bank. You can bank blood of your own ahead of time. That has to be done significantly in advance of the procedure. And, you know, if you're going in for a knee replacement, you're not going to need blood. But you should do well. They would let them do that sometimes.

I've had both hip and knee patients give a unit. So they'll let you. Yeah, yes, and you can. Chances of you needing blood in one of those orthopedic surgeries is very very low the and the biggest issue I guess is that the times you most likely need blood products is when you've had a traumatic issue in which case you haven't had the opportunity to to donate in advance but I think you But I think your concerns are legitimate. There has been talk about creating a parallel blood supply, like the Red Cross, specifically for unvaccinated blood. To this point, to this date, I am unaware that it's actually happened, but there's been quite a

bit of discussion about it. Kelly, we have used our time. Caleb has a hard out today. So I would, I would, I would going on vacation. I know he's a vacation. Well, all, all of my friends, all my friends whose relationships survived the pandemic, they're all getting married this year. So there's so many weddings we're flying out to. This is the last wedding of the year. So yeah, everyone else. Well, well, well, safe travels and we will see you. We will see you next week. I know next Wednesday we have,

we have Dick Russell who wrote the new biography of Bobby Kennedy, Jr. Coming to talk about his insights into Robert Kennedy kennedy um and then uh we've got tom rens coming at the end of the month for a repeat visit super excited about that very excited about that it'll be interesting to hear what's new and uh mark morano on the 20th and we're working on the 22nd so kelly we will see you a week from tomorrow. We are out the rest of this week. Be back again Tuesday at 3 p.m. We appreciate all you all on the Twitter spaces as well as we're watching the restream

and the Rumble Rants. We appreciate it very much. Thank you, Caleb, for taking a vacation because that means I get a vacation too. Tell a friend if Susan's going to Orange County. I'm in vacation mode. It's summer. I hate to say it.

Well, fair enough. We did gay pride in Palm Springs over the weekend. We had a nice time. But tell a friend about this if you're learning stuff. Go look at some of the previous interviews we've done. I think if you kind of roll back and look at some of the interviews we've been privileged enough to have here, you will learn a lot. And you may not agree with everything, but you will learn a ton. So do tell a friend, and we will continue to kind of—

And check out our sponsor page on drdrew.com and help support the show by supporting our sponsors who are dedicated to the show now. Also the natokinase, which removes the spike protein. I take it every day. It's not hurting me. No side effects. We are very fortunate to have Paleo Valley and some products that we really stand behind.

Wait, we have a new one. We didn't produce today. Is that the dental? It's coming though. Also, one more thing. I was thinking about this today we have locals.com slash dr drew too if anybody wants to get an email that sort of gives you an idea of what the show is going to be join locals we we send out an email every day what we can develop locals into we are

open to yeah i just we don't do live streaming there if we could live stream there too it'd be great but i don't think they go do restream yet but that's an affiliation with rumble so but you know i think it's like seven dollars a month or whatever and i send out the uh brought you know the blast out the emails there so if you want to know what what's coming up we'll send it out every day all right again we appreciate you all supporting this supporting us being around for this conversation it's very interesting i've learned a ton and the the thought bubble over my head three years ago that started with what is going on? What the hell is happening here? It's coming clearer and clearer all the time. So hopefully you will gain some clarity as well so as not to repeat the mistakes of the past. We'll see you next Tuesday

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