Ask Dr. Drew - Dr. Kelly Victory & Alex Berenson on Twitter Lawsuit, Monkeypox & COVID-19 Censorship – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 110

Episode Date: August 15, 2022

In 2021, Alex Berenson was suspended by Twitter for "misinformation." So he sued the platform to restore his account... and WON. He returns to Ask Dr. Drew LIVE with Dr. Kelly Victory to discuss censorship, COVID-19, Monkeypox & Big Tech's attempts to ban debates about controversial topics. MEDICAL NOTE: The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. Hundreds of millions of people have received a COVID-19 vaccine, and serious adverse reactions are rare. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  Alex Berenson covered the drug industry as a reporter for the New York Times. He is an Edgar Award–winning writer of bestselling thrillers, and a freelance journalist. His newest title "Pandemia: How Coronavirus Hysteria Took Over Our Government, Rights, and Lives” is his own investigation into the pandemic. In it, he asserts that our response to it “has been an epic overreaction driven by a disastrous confluence of public and private interests – all of them purporting to ‘follow the science.’” Follow him at https://alexberenson.com Dr. Kelly Victory MD is a board-certified trauma and emergency specialist with over 15 years of clinical experience. She served as CMO for Whole Health Management, delivering on-site healthcare services for Fortune 500 companies. She holds a BS from Duke University and her MD from the University of North Carolina. Follow her at https://earlycovidcare.org Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (http://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. SPONSORED BY • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get 10% off with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew GEAR PROVIDED BY • BLUE MICS - After more than 30 years in broadcasting, Dr. Drew's iconic voice has reached pristine clarity through Blue Microphones. But you don't need a fancy studio to sound great with Blue's lineup: ranging from high-quality USB mics like the Yeti, to studio-grade XLR mics like Dr. Drew's Blueberry. Find your best sound at https://drdrew.com/blue • ELGATO - Every week, Dr. Drew broadcasts live shows from his home studio under soft, clean lighting from Elgato's Key Lights. From the control room, the producers manage Dr. Drew's streams with a Stream Deck XL, and ingest HD video with a Camlink 4K. Add a professional touch to your streams or Zoom calls with Elgato. See how Elgato's lights transformed Dr. Drew's set: https://drdrew.com/sponsors/elgato/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Very excited about today's show. We are intending it to be very provocative. And if we do, in fact, get silenced on YouTube, you can continue to follow us on Rumble, Facebook, Twitch, Twitter, wherever else you find us. That's where we will continue to be. But we're not sure that we'll be able to sustain on YouTube today. But we'll let you know if we flip off the other platforms. Today, we're going to talk to Alex Berenson. Alex, of course, has been a source of heated controversy over the course of the pandemic, and he is recently out of Twitter jail. He successfully sued Twitter, and apparently they're making things difficult for him still. Dr. Kelly Victory is one of our favorites.

She's a colleague. She's an emergency room doctor. She was with us a week ago, and our producer, Susan Pinsky, thought that was a great conversation. Wouldn't it be great if we did this on a more regular basis? We're looking to do this Wednesdays now. And our producer, Susan Pinsky, thought that was a great conversation. It wouldn't be great if we did this on a more regular basis. So we're looking to do this Wednesdays now. Initially, I'll be talking to Alex here for a few minutes, just getting him sort of seeing where he's at, what's on his mind right now. And then we'll bring Dr. Victory in here and we will get it on. As Mr. Carolla says, got to get it on.

No choice but to get it on. We'll be right back. Our laws as it pertains to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real.

We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want help stopping, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. FedMGM We'll be right back. Bet with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM.

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to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Welcome, everybody. As you all know, I'm pretty moderate on these issues, but I'm interested in the truth. And when people get silenced,

I'm interested in sort of examining what their point of view was and seeing if I can expand my point of view. Rather than me interviewing people who I agree with, which gets none of us anywhere, that's just me echoing myself back and forth, which I can do just fine by myself, I want to expand my point of view. And there are always concerns out there. That's how science is done. That's how clinical science is done. Now you can argue maybe we shouldn't be doing it publicly, but it has been kind of extraordinary times.

Now let me just open a little disclaimer. Of course, the CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce risk of severe illness. Hundreds of millions of people have received the vaccine. Serious adverse events appear to be rare. I, of course, am a board-certified internist and also a dictionologist. Dr. Kelly is a board-certified ER doctor. We agree and disagree on many things, but you should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about health.

We are not practicing medicine here. We are trying to get closer to the truth. And someone who has always been very interested in the truth himself and has gotten in a lot of heat for just calling it like he sees it, I think back to his original book on cannabis, which now has turned out to be essentially, I'd say just about all of it, fairly accurate. And now he's been looking at the issue of vaccines, therapeutics, how we sort of manage lockdowns and what happened to this world. His new book is Pandemic, How Coronavirus Hysteria Took Over Our Government, Rights

and Lives. Of course, Alex Berenson. Let's welcome Alex to the show. There it is, Pandemia. I beg your pardon. It's called Pandemia. There you are. Uh-oh, no sound from Alex.

Hold on one second. Hold on. One second. Really? There you are. You're in. You're back. You're there.

You're good. All right. Good. So, yeah. So, welcome to us from Twitter jail. How was it while you were there? You know, in a way, it was actually good. All right. So, yeah. So welcome to us from Twitter jail. How was it while you were there? You know, in a way, I was actually good. I got a lot more done.

I finished the book. The book came out. I wasn't able to promote it on Twitter, but that was okay. And I mean, I think I would have sold more copies, but there wasn't much I could do about it. And I, you know, I had this very successful sub stack, which, which I still have, but in some ways, you know, not being on Twitter, good, you know, focused my energy on the stack and on writing longer pieces. And I, and I, you know, since I've been back on Twitter, which is about a month, I want to get back to sort of being less on Twitter, believe it or not, and more on sub stack

and unreported truths, which is my Substack newsletter platform. Have you spoken yet publicly about what the situation is with Twitter? How are you? Because we'd all like to know how to do that more than anything. And we've, you know, we all sort of were pulling for you and feel like vindicated along with you. Sure. I mean, so I, you know, I, I've settled and I'm not able to say that much about the settlement, but in, in December, I, in last August, almost a year ago, I sued Twitter or I'd say last August, Twitter threw me off. And there was sort of an escalating series of events that culminated in them banning me in August, late August of last year. In December,

I sued them. And, you know, these lawsuits have generally been unsuccessful. The president or the ex-president filed one that was tossed. Mostly they get tossed. The courts have said that Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act gives these social media companies essentially carte blanche to do whatever they want. My suit was somewhat different because I had been in communication with a pretty senior person at Twitter named Brandon Borman, who's not there anymore, but he was the essentially head of all communications. And beginning in May 2020, he told me that basically

Twitter knows what you're doing. And we, you know, we want debate and discussion around COVID interventions. And that continued even after I started to write about the vaccines. What was so interesting was that Twitter's stance toward me very abruptly changed in July of 2021, shortly after Dr. Fauci took public notice of something that I had said about vaccinations and essentially discouraging a lot of people from being vaccinated. Because I did. We're talking about COVID vaccines only, by the way, only COVID vaccines, because I didn't think the risk benefit for. You know, the conventional wisdom is that this lawsuit is going to lose and get, you know, get sort of thrown out at what's called the motion to dismiss stage, which is the very earliest stage that a lawsuit can be thrown out. And lo and behold, in April of 2022, just a few months ago, a judge, not a Trump judge, by the way, not a Republican appointed judge, a judge in the Northern District of California named Judge William Alsup heard my arguments and my lawyer's arguments and Twitter's arguments and decided that we had a viable claim based on a breach of contract, meaning that when you sign up with Twitter, you have, you know, you have to agree to their terms of service and a contract that they write that is very,

very favorable to them. But essentially that I had made a plausible argument that they had begun the process of modifying that contract, both in terms of what they had said to me specifically, what Brandon Borman said to me specifically, but somewhat more interestingly, in terms of what they had said to me specifically, what Brandon Borman said to me specifically, but somewhat more interestingly, in terms of their COVID five strike policy. So if their position is we can throw anyone off this platform at any time for any reason, that's one thing. But if they instead say, hey, you know, we're going to let you talk about COVID, we're going to let you debate COVID, as long debate COVID as long as we don't see you saying anything that's false and dangerous to the public health. Then they've set up some guidelines and they need to figure out how they're going to enforce those guidelines fairly. That was what

Alsup said that I had made a plausible claim on. And then that led to Twitter. This is typical in a federal lawsuit. The judge will almost always appoint a mediator. You go into settlement talks. I actually didn things that I wanted. In fact, one of them I said very publicly in early June, which was only a couple of months ago, that I wouldn't settle this lawsuit unless Twitter agreed to essentially engage in the same discovery process that it would have had to engage in, had the lawsuit moved forward and given me the rights to publish that discovery. And then I did settle settle so some people have said did that happen did you get those rights so so i can't tell you whether i got those rights the settlement bars me from telling you whether i got those rights however okay i can tell you that if i got those rights i'm going to have something to say based on that discovery shortly so so people have been saying has elon contacted

you so so i can't really talk about that either um you know elon said publicly on the day that i was returned to the platform a month ago that he was very interested to know about he said he essentially said good he was interested to know what this discovery might turn up so i'm gonna have that's what i saw i i here here's i have to be careful high phrases since i can't talk about the settlement but it's weird stop stop i get i get it stop for yourself we get this you get it if if i have something to say i'll have something to say you'll say it yeah If I have something to say, I'll have something to say. You'll say it. Yeah, if you have something to say, you'll say it.

So, yes. Before we bring Dr. Victory in here, there's two things I want to kind of zero in on. Because we have a lot of specifics to go over once Dr. Kelly is in here. Um, one is if you were evaluating Alex Berenson, uh, and the, some of the positions you've taken over since, since, let's say since, you know, the spring of 2020 or something like that, somewhere in there. Are there things that as you evaluate, you go, Oh, I got that wrong. Or I wish I hadn't said that. I mean, what, what do you, what are your, you know, obviously you've got a lot of things

right that people thought was wrong. What are the things that you wish you'd gotten more right or that you'd be critical of you if you were an objective observer? Sure. The one major thing that I got wrong was actually in 2020, there was a period of time in the summer of 2020 when I thought because of the way you saw, you know, New York hit a big peak early and then it went down.

You saw this in the Southern states in the summer of 2020. It, it appeared for a moment, like there were, there might be something going on with cross immunity with earlier coronaviruses where, you know, 15 or 20% of people might be the ones who are susceptible to this and then it would burn itself out. And that turned out not to be the case at all. I didn't say that would definitely happen, but I did say, I thought it was a possibility. And clearly that, that, that is not the case. You know, this is a, the novel coronavirus, you know, people do not have preexisting immunity to. So that, that is the, that is the number one thing that I got wrong. And again, I phrased it, I gave myself some leeway, but i still said it was a

possibility and it wasn't um in terms of the things go ahead you have another one go ahead vaccine uh i mean i will tell you in terms of vaccines honestly like this may be controversial i don't think really i got anything i've gotten anything wrong with the vaccines the vaccines have proven uh at best marginally beneficial uh at best, and with a side effect profile that is much worse than the flu vaccine or other therapeutics that we give to huge groups of people. So if anything, I think I overestimated the duration that the vaccines would work for. I didn't realize that they would start to fail so quickly or that they would become so useless against Omicron. Well, again, we're still holding out hope that there's some T cell immunity in there that's making some of this Omicron less less virulent.

But again, we're holding out against hope on that. But are there things you wish you'd gotten right that you didn't see. You know, I didn't see how long it would drag on. And I didn't see how political it would become. And I guess I didn't see how unwilling the public health establishment would be to change its mind and to, I mean, here, here's what they could have said. Okay. They could have said this, like these vaccines, they are the early clinical trial data looks great. Okay. And we want everybody over 50 or over 60, who's at high risk to get vaccinated right now. We think that's really, really important, but because this is so novel and because, you know, because we

don't know what the duration of protection is going to be, we're not going to push this on younger, healthy people. We're going to let people who are at high risk, not just go first, but really be the only people who get this. And they weren't willing to even consider that as a possibility. And, you know, I guess I underestimated how dogmatic they would be. Well, the other thing, I think some of the sort, yeah, I agree with you. They should be, I mean, I'm not hearing any self-analysis of what they got wrong, what they got right. I'm not hearing any of that. I mean, if they want the public to trust them, they're going to have to come clean about what they did wrong and what they wish they'd done differently. But the one thing that I've learned about public health, which I did not know,

and I think you're pointing it out here when you talk about their unwillingness to even talk about populations at risk. And we see the same thing going on now with monkeypox. Monkeypox, yeah. I just looked at the monkeypox data. I can't find any female, not one female infected. I believe that's accurate data. And so we know it's male. Primarily men who have sex with men.

Let's go protect those guys. Let's go get them. Let's talk about it, educate them, protect them, vaccinate them, tell them what they need. Let's do it. Instead, we go, oh, no, no. It's the same for everybody. Your little child can get it too. A little baby can get it. That's insane. And I think some of that, and this is this model they have in public health,

equity uber alice. Everything must be the same. Equity, equity, equity. And I'm all for equity. I'm a big equity fan, but equity uber Uber Alice hurts people. And I have a feeling that was the position they took that got them into such big trouble. Did you see that when you're writing the book? Yes. I mean, absolutely. But I will say this in the case of COVID, it's worse than that, Dr. Drew, because they decided in February, March of 2020, that they were going to scare people, scare people at low risk. So it wasn't just, we're going to say that the risk is the same for everybody. It's, there are going to be people out there who have an understanding either intuitively or because they've looked at the data. You know what? I'm young and healthy. I'm at pretty low risk here.

We think those people are vectors. We don't want them to go out we are going to try to frighten them too and they weaponized fear and and it is a and i mean and you can see like you can see discussions of that in you know in the uk you can see discussions of that in germany it is a terrible thing to do that to people really dangerous i it's interesting the california legislature right now has a pediatrician up there who i've admired over the years but now he's going to try to outlaw quote misinformation is that richard pan i forget his last name pan yeah and uh and and he and he in his statement said i i want to outlaw things like suggesting that lockdowns

had a mental health consequence. And I thought, well, but hang on, I thought, well, to his point, we haven't proven that because we're not doing RCTs on anything, but it's either the lockdown or the fear. It's one or the other. It was either the hysteria or the lockdown or both,

but it is one of those things that had has had profound effect on people yep i mean it's stunning that somebody who considers himself well you know who is a physician scientist would take that stance i'm gonna outlaw your right to discuss these issues or i'm gonna try to take away your medical license for that it's bizarre it's very strange and you know so here's the before i'm going to get dr kelly in just a second dr victory but there's one last thing i want to kind of have you comment on and that you mentioned section 230 with the social media's privileges and the other thing we sort of discussed was how public health overreached and what they were intending was so deleterious.

Isn't the core issue that we have learned in all of this is that we have certain powerful structures woven into our lives as Americans and other countries too, because they did the same thing, where let's say, for instance, the public health, they could look at this and go, no, no, we need those powers, and we use them properly. We did what we had to do to get through this thing. That was the proper deployment versus, oh, man, we never want to go through that again.

We didn't realize that they could do that, and we have to put some limits on that. And the same thing with Section 230. Aren't we sort of, haven't we kind of learned that there's an issue in these in our foot right now or are people not learning that? I mean, I mean, I would say I've learned, I'd say some people have learned, you know, I mean, I think there's much more quiet resistance to to what happened the last two years than is being discussed. I think certainly outside of a place like, you know, Santa Monica or Brooklyn or DC, you know, look at the number of, look at the tiny number of people who are getting their young children vaccinated. Okay. Look at the very small number of people who are getting a second booster.

There is a realization that nothing really worked and that we went through what we went through. And whether or not people do not want to be ordered around by the public health authorities right now. Whether or not there'll be, if something else happens, if we get, you know, a bad pandemic flu in two years, what they'll be willing to do at that point. I don't know, but I do think we have polio knocking on the door. We have polio knocking on the door. That's right. And these people, I just have serious shit. I got I got to say this.

These people blame they blame me. OK, and they blame people like me who are vaccine. I'm again, I've been vaccinating. My children have been vaccinated, my children have been vaccinated against everything else. This vaccine is very problematic, both on the safety front and the efficacy front. And the fact that they weren't willing to acknowledge that, haven't been willing to acknowledge that, and even now, you know, are pushing boosters and pushing vaccines on little kids, That is what is

destroying confidence in vaccines. And I think that's why, and I've heard this from many parents, Dr. Drew, when you go to take your kid to the pediatrician right now, they do not mention the COVID vaccine. It's a conversation they don't want to have because they know these peds that if they bring it up, they're just going to hurt their chances of getting you to get your kids vaccinated for other things with vaccines that actually work. And let me state for the record, if anyone out there has not had the complete series of the polio vaccine, or if you're in an environment where you're likely to be exposed to polio vaccine, even if you've had the vaccine, get it immediately. This is serious shit. This right way bigger deal than a lot of the stuff we've been talking about this destroys children it paralyzes children it infects children it is

it's such a big deal i can't even say and if we're not taking a aim at that we got it we got to we got to really think about things here but anyway all, all right. So, oh, one last thing. I have so many things on my mind today. Did you see the study out of Thailand today that was showing the incidence of elevated troponin levels? Yeah. It was not the EKG changes. It was the troponin levels that both Vinay Prasad and myself were making a real issue with. So this was the first study. This is the stuff that Pfizer is supposed to be doing that they've not been doing or they've not been publishing to show the post-distribution studies on what the side effects have been. And here's the first time really serious evidence

of subclinical myocarditis. And God knows what the persistent effects might be. We haven't figured that out yet i mean i i guess that's a and let me say let me state for the record also i i'm still pro vaccine i'd be a very hard decision for a 17 year old i'm i push it on my seven-year-olds i tell all my seven-year-olds get it get it get it and uh although i am having them hold off until the omicron thing is available in the fall just in time for Omicron to have gone away probably, but whatever. That's the best we got.

But it's really in the younger populations, and that's what this study was pointing out, that there might be a really significant problem here. Wait, Dr. Drew, are you saying that you think that if Pfizer had some negative data about this $100 billion product, they would not be in a hurry to publish it? You're crazy. They're about the public health yeah i i'm saying i'm saying they're not even and i'm saying i think i don't think they're doing it i think no one's forcing them to do it they're not doing it yeah and so it's the best studies by other sources that's right the best studies exactly but by the way yeah did you see that denmark has now uh they are basically ending vaccinations for uh you know covid vaccinations for kids under 18 you're gonna have to have a special uh consultation with the pediatrician for that yes i i uh woke up to alex berenson tweeting about that and that then they backed off it a little bit then they they backed off

it a little bit too they they backed off it a little bit too they softened it you see that also because somebody because somebody yelled at them but you know it'll in the end it'll be the same i walk away from this whole experience thinking there is evil afoot in the world and it's bureaucracy bureaucracy is the evil in the world right now because that's what they took a very rational position and they were gonna they were they were their hand was slapped for it so oh well all right so here's the deal we'll take a little break we're gonna go with alex berenson get the new book it's pandemia right pandemia is that what it's called endemia you got it pandemia and we're gonna sorry

kelly i've kept you on the sidelines there this whole time i've had a million things pre-loaded in my head i want to talk to a about, we will get Dr. Kelly Victorian here just after this little break. I think we have found the holy grail of skincare. GenuCell has absolutely changed certainly my skincare regimen. I like that vitamin C serum, the under eye creams, skin nourishing primer. Susan loves the eyelash enhancers, uses it on her eyebrows as well. GenuCell has everything to make us both feel and look amazing. Best part, the quality of the products.

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Right now, you can try GenuCell's most popular collection of products and see what I'm talking about for yourself. Go to GenuCell.com and enter code Drew for 10% off. That is G-E-N-U-C-E-L.com. And the code is D-R-E-W. There's nothing in medicine that doesn't boil down to a risk-benefit calculation. It is the mandate of public health to consider the impact of any particular mitigation scheme on the entire population. This is uncharted territory, Drew. Dr. Kelly Victory joins us with Alex Berenson. And let me just say before we go to the panel here,

you guys are very active on the restream and at the Rumble Rants, and I'm having trouble keeping up, I've got to say. So I apologize if there are things you're saying there that you don't see reflected on the air one thing I did catch my eye Joseph Jason is saying I pushed the vaccines I pushed the vaccines for populations where we actually knew what we were doing which is a significantly elderly my patients the 65 75 plus really as we kind of know what we're doing. Under that, the possibilities of what we should be doing, we really don't know. We really don't know who should get it. I don't like making those decisions. When a 40-year-old comes in and asks me about vaccine, I make that decision with the patient. Depends on a lot of things. Dr. Victor, you heard what Alex and I

were talking about. Any comments for starters? Well, first, let me say I'm super excited to have Alex on on my inaugural Wednesday show with Drew. So thanks for joining us, Alex. I could do the entire rest of the other than to say that I am the lead co-plaintiff with President Trump in his suit against Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube. So don't sell that short quite yet. It hasn't actually, it's still alive and well. I also have faced seven formal complaints against my medical license in various states. Incidentally, by the way, having nothing to do with anything I did with a patient, all having to do with things I've said on shows like this one. So the censorship thing is real and egregious and really dangerous. As

you know, it has less to do with Alex Berenson's right to say something or Kelly Victory's right to say something, but more to do with the right of everyone else to hear it. And that's really where this is dangerous. But I really want to talk with you about the dicey stuff since I'm on now. This is when the censorship really kicks in and we'll probably get booted off of the platforms. But I want to talk to you about the data because you're the one person who during this whole thing was willing to actually look at the data, put it out there. So right now, you're more charitable than I am to say that the vaccines have any efficacy whatsoever.

I'm not even willing to give them that. But let's look at some of the data that I know I've been reporting on that you know about. The 40% increase in all-cause mortality in 18 to 49-year-olds. The 300% increase in disability claims in the past year. The huge increase, huge uptick in the certain specific medical conditions as reported by the military physicians. The fact that the funeral homes are talking about being, you know, their business is going, is bangarang right now. They're doing great. What is it in your mind that the

American people need to see to make them wake up and ask questions about this? Because there's still a big part of the population, and obviously the CDC is still out there saying these are safe and effective. I mean, it's ridiculous. So, I mean, I would, I would push back on you on essentially all the figures that you quoted. I think they're all exaggerations or out of a single, like the 40% is out of a single life insurance company. The 300% is out of a single life insurance company. What I would say is that what we are seeing and, are seeing, and this is probably the reason why this is so hard to explain to people, and this is why, despite what everybody wants to say about me on the left, I'm truly not a conspiracy theorist. The increase in deaths is a lot more

subtle than that. It's 5% to 10% all-cause mortality increase sort of week after week, month after month in a whole bunch of countries. And I'm talking about ex-COVID. So COVID is still killing some people, whether it's with or from. In the U.S., there's still about 300 people a day dying. In the U.K., it might be 100 or 150. But even when you take out those numbers, there is an increase in all-cause mortality that you're seeing in the UK, in Germany, in Australia, in a lot of countries that used both the DNA, both the J&J and AstraZeneca, and more importantly, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. And it is not a huge

increase, okay? And it is not a huge increase in young people, but there is an increase in young people too. But it's there and it's sort of mounting month after month. And what people need to understand, when I say a 5% or 10% increase in mortality, that may not sound like a lot, like, oh, it's 105 deaths this week instead of 100. It's 110 deaths this week instead of 100. Hey, that's not a doubling or tripling. Why is that a big deal? It's a big deal because demography is destiny. When you're in an advanced country and you're not at war and you don't have famines and you have solid medical care, you can very accurately calculate the number of people who are going to die every year. It's really just a function of the age of the population.

So to have a 5% or 10% increase is big. But it's not, but let me just start, one last thing. It's big, but it isn't quite big enough for people to notice, right? It's only at the national level that you see these numbers. Okay. So a couple of things. Well, first of all, it was one huge life insurance company who reported this 40% increase in 18 to 49-year-olds. And according to their CEO, he said that that has been corroborated, quote, across the industry, according to him. So whether it was just one that reported it, but it's actually out there. What you're suggesting is certainly possible that it's increased, but not as much as 40%. So then what you're talking about is the boiling of frog,

that people just don't see it. It's insidious. People aren't willing to acknowledge it. So step away then for a minute from the death toll. And let's talk about this massive increase we're seeing in the incidence of heart attacks, strokes, blood cl cancers from 200 a year to 250, it was from 38,000 to 120,000 in one year. And they compared that to the five-year average. These are staggering numbers. And although I obviously cannot say with any certainty, Alex, that this is a direct result of the vaccines. It's the job of the CDC to be investigating this. That's their job. Sure. No, that I would absolutely agree. Again, I know the database you're talking about, what the military has said is that they changed the coding rules and that when they went back and looked, it wasn't that big an increase.

But here, and I think that may be true. I think if there were, I think an increase that large would be notable to everyone. But I agree with you. It is the job of the CDC and the job of national health organization or, you know, national health bureaucracies worldwide to investigate this. And here's what I substacked a couple of days ago. We had a 10% increase in deaths in 2020 in the United States due to COVID. We shut down the country. We took drastic steps. And by the way, as we know, that increase was almost exclusively in very unhealthy people and in very old people. Nonetheless, we decided it

was worth shutting down the country for, okay? We have had roughly the same level of increase in non-COVID deaths this year in the US and in many other countries. And we are not even acknowledging that it exists. It's just these government bureaucracies put out the numbers. I want to hop in on this. Let me hop in real quick. Two points. One is, didn't Ireland make note of it and actually set out to do a causational study? Isn't it Ireland that did that, Alex?

So the Irish, yes. And in the UK, they're starting to talk about this. But for the most part, in the US, we're not talking about it at all. Right. Yeah. Well, we do. Here's what we say. No, we are. We're saying, I just want to finish this one thought.

We are saying in the US, here's what we're saying. Here's the narrative. People didn't go to the doctor. People didn't get their screening done. People aren't getting proper care. And that's not going to cause in a year this massive increase in all this stuff. That's right. Correct. But I'll tell you what can, what could. proper care. And that's not going to cause in a year, this massive increase in all this stuff. But, but, but I'll tell you what can, what could, and this is the thing that we may one day find out to be so, an endovascular infectious disease could be doing all of this. It could be consequence

of COVID and not consequence of the vaccine, or it could be both. Yes, it could be. I agree. I agree. I also, let me throw one other thing at you. In Australia, okay, which had basically no COVID, Australia is a very interesting spot because in 2020, 2021, Australia and New Zealand, they locked down super hard. You know, they're basically islands. New Zealand is an island. Australia is a continent. They had basically no COVID. They had very low deaths in 2020, lower than normal, which is one reason, oh, this is the success. This is how you do it. Okay. This year they are having massive excess deaths. And in Australia, which is a kind enough to break it down by cause they're seeing an increase. One of the things they're seeing an increase in is diabetes deaths. And you know, type one diabetes, that's autoimmune. So it is it is

possible to I think that the vaccines are causing in some people for reasons we do not understand some kind of autoimmune reaction, you you're seeing cases of, you know, a reactive arthritis reported, you're seeing cases of diabetes type one, not type two, come up in the literature. I think if we had a functioning public health bureaucracy, this is one of the questions they would be asking. It doesn't fit for me, though. You don't die of new onset.

Hang on. You don't die of new onset diabetes. You die of unmanaged chronic diabetes. And so if somebody wasn't going to the doctor, stop using their insulin. Right. That's what I'm saying. Because you didn't know you were diabetic, but usually you can take care of that. When you get into trouble is where you stopped your insulin, you stopped your care, you just started down the path and there's no coming back.

Usually DKA can bring people out. Take that new study that just came out of Thailand. Really stunning study. This is a prospective study, 301 people between the ages of 13 and 18, and they had extensive, extensive cardiac workups, both pre and post vaccine. So we have a baseline. We know that they did not have any cardiac issues pre-vaccine. They did not have EKG changes and they had normal cardiac enzymes. 18% of them, one out of five

ended up with EKG abnormalities post-vaccine. And then as you said, 3.5% have evidence based on their lab work of myocarditis. What are you going to attribute that to? COVID? Some occult COVID? No. This is vaccine related. Then here's, Alex, I'd love your take on this. You're undoubtedly aware that something like 80% of the severe adverse reactions or adverse events related to vaccines were attributed to less than 20% of the actual batches of vaccine. There's actually a website, How Bad Was My Batch? So this either reflects a stunning lack of quality control in the manufacturing process or something more nefarious. I don't know, but I'd be interested in your take on that data. So the batch thing is something I've

studiously avoided getting involved in because it just strikes me as going down the rat hole. I will say this, this is clearly, look, you're talking about tiny, tiny strands of mRNA in tiny, tiny particles, lipid nanoparticles. I don't have any idea how you mix that into a sort of fine, perfect solution. I assume that the chemists at Pfizer and the process engineers at Pfizer and Moderna know how to do that. If they don't, it's a problem. If the FDA and the regulators aren't able to get them to do that, that's a problem. But so is it, I guess, theoretically possible that there is some issue with the batches? I guess, but I have, I've just avoided this topic entirely. There, there, there, there are things that that, my point of view on this is, is like, we have so much to worry about that

we know is real, that chasing batch numbers isn't a good use of my time. Maybe it's a good use of somebody else's time. Well, only as I said, that it reflects either a complete lack of quality control batch to batch or something else. Let's take the three, what I would consider the three biggest lies about the mRNA components of the vaccine. This is independent of the nanoparticle issues. Drew and I did an entire show last week on the problems related to nanoparticles that are used to encapsulate the mRNA. Number one, we were told that the mRNA stays in your arm,

stays in the deltoid muscle where it is injected. We knew and they knew well before these were released that that's not the case, that the mRNA goes far and wide to essentially every major organ system and does so within hours. Number two, we were told that the mRNA is very quickly eliminated from your body,

quote unquote, according to the CDC website as of today, within several days. We know that that isn't true, that it lasts in excess of 60 days in most people. And then number three, we were told that no way, no how does it get incorporated into the DNA. And sure enough, big study out of Sweden shows that not only does it get reverse transcribed into your DNA, into every cell in your DNA, but it does so within six hours in the liver. These are huge, huge lies. How do you expect people to trust anything about these vaccines when I've just rattled off three massive inaccuracies? So I would agree with the first and second. I think the third is not concluded. I think that study has been retracted, although the authors say

they didn't want to retract it. There's a fight over the third one, but certainly, certainly the D the mRNA goes all over your body. I agree with that. And it doesn't get degraded nearly as quickly as they said, those things are clearly true. How do I expect? Look, none of this would matter. If the vaccines did what they, I mean, they would still matter, but it wouldn't matter nearly as much if the vaccines actually worked as promised and if there weren't evidence of side effects especially side effects in young people that are much more severe in most cases than covid would be so uh isn't it though the isn't it isn't it though the case that really what makes it matter even more is that governments are mandating it. Isn't that really where the shark gets jumped?

Yeah, I mean, although they've sort of given up on it, right? This is all true. We'd like it to work better. It becomes a clinical question, risk-reward. Doctors make those decisions all the time. But when you have a government mandating something, the French, you know, the youth in France were in the streets demonstrating against this.

They were very upset about it. They said, I'm young. I'm not going to get such a bad thing. Now you're going to mandate a vaccine. What? How does that work? That's not the three founders. That's not liberty.

Liberté was part of the founding principle of this government. I talked to so many young French people who raised their fist at me. It's important. You don't understand. But I think the mandate is where the shark got jumped. Let me ask this.

Let's talk for a second because we're all over the place and we're doing a great job and I'm into this. Also, by the way, I would love to see that liver study reproduced that Alex is questioning. I woke up in the middle of the night, Kelly, worrying about that one because I don't understand. I know cell biology pretty well. I don't know where we evolved to reverse transcriptase. I can't get that in my head. You and I remember, you and I, Drew, had discussed this in earlier shows. And that was one of the things that I told people, of all the things you need to worry about, that certainly isn't one because it doesn't work that way.

And then lo and behold, this big Swedish study came out showing it. And I actually, I don't just read out showing it. And I, you know, I actually, I don't just read the cliff notes. I spend my life, you know, in my library reading the studies. And I have to say, it was a pretty solid study. And I said, this was something that I was wrong about. It's an in vitro study, right? It's a bench study in cells. It's not, I mean, they didn't demonstrate that they found MRNA in the cells of living humans. Right. They were not doing liver biopsies. That is correct.

Pneumatic cells in the dish are not that different. So it's just, okay. Correct. Let's table that one. Pulpy will be reproduced and we can what we want to uh talk about we can see it well let me just say it may not be reproduced because the you know the pressure not to uh to report this stuff is so amazing i i will throw one other you know study out and i you know i'm not even going to right now but but the there's enormous pressure not to look

for evidence that these vaccines are causing harm i know how about the japanese study that shows you know that that your genitals can necrose uh and that's the microplaning so you know you can still get covid but your dick will fall off i mean that's awesome i mean i mean truly this is this is the kind of stuff that these are real. That's the study. There it is. There's the study. There it is. You posted it, Alex, so I got to bring it up. This is why they hate me, right?

Because I find this kind of thing that is like, oh, my God. Well, and by the way, I am not as – you guys are both extremely disturbed that the vaccine doesn't work as well as we'd like. I had nasty COVID at the beginning. I would have been happy for any hedge against that. You know what I mean? I would be happy if my immune system improved 5% or 10% against what I was fighting. So I am not looking for the magic vaccine

that's going to eliminate COVID like the Salk vaccine. And think about it. It never happens in medicine anymore. A Salk vaccine was the last time something like that did happen in reality. But anyway, the risk-reward is what we're arguing or discussing. You know, what is the risk-reward? At what age is the risk-reward worth it? And that, to me, is a very challenging question and really needs to be carefully looked at.

And we're just not – we should be rushing to that. I mean, that should be the absolute number one priority right now rather than mandates. But let's flip over to masks. The other topic that I just shake my head about, I don't understand. I just don't understand. I don't get it. Why does that – is that still an issue alex you want to say something go ahead no i don't i mean this is only because you're in you're in california

man masks are dead even in new york no one wears masks you know i i i'm on the train regularly the train and the subway and you know theoretically there's a mask requirement nobody nobody wears masks it's i mean uh the the that's another sign that people know that they were lied to and know that none of this stuff works right is it that or are they just relaxing a little bit because they know the fear-mongering towards omicron is where the lie comes in and they realize it's not that bad you know it's a much milder illness or maybe they feel confident with the vaccines whatever it is they just feel like you know no and by the way they were lied to but the masks too also and i and i and i gotta go unfortunately pretty soon my uh my uh my media advisor uh

nine-year-old is yelling at me but but, but, you know, I, I will say, you know, I think we're in a very strange moment right now because the, most of the country just wants to forget COVID, right. And, and, and, and can forget it, frankly, because Omicron is mild and most people have been infected and have some kind of, you know, I wouldn't even say it's vaccine immunity or hybrid immunity. I'd say they have natural immunity following the failure of the vaccines. You can see people have anti-antibodies that people essentially got infected until they got their natural immunity kicked in.

That's what it looks like to me. Now we can argue about that. But most of the countries have forgotten about this. The only people who haven't are the 10% of the crazies who still, you know, these are the people who are getting their three-year-olds vaccinated. These are the people who, you know, still are wearing masks and who still are scared. You know, something, this did something to them. It gave them an anxiety disorder that's not going away. And then on the other side, there's people like me and Kelly, you know, 15 or 20% of the country, I would say, who are angry. And some of those people were vaccinated

against their will, essentially. And a lot of us felt like we, you know, we would, we were really risking losing participation in civic life by not being vaccinated. And we have not forgotten. So we're pushing right now, right? People like me are saying, you know what, we have to talk about this. We have to talk about the last two years. But most of the country actually just wants to be done with COVID. And as long as it's 300, you know, sort of old sick people a day,

or is the death toll, you know, we were told, oh, that's, you know, that's 100,000 people a year, that's way too many, the country won't tolerate it. The country is perfectly fine with it. Let's be honest, the country just wants to forget COVID. But it's it's unfortunately, it's people like me who are saying no, because we must talk about how this happened and make sure it doesn't happen again. I completely agree. Yeah. So I know you've got to go. Well, so a thousands of enlisted people because today,

right now, in the middle of a big nothing burger for young, healthy people, they're talking about dismissing these people. We have a vaccine that's efficacy against Omicron is zero. No, it's negative. It's probably negative. It's probably negative. Exactly. It's driving mutations. It's negative. It puts you at more risk. Even if you're willing to say simply that the safety profile is unknown, the risk benefit calculation does not fall in favor of these guys getting vaccinated. And I am somebody, you said it early in the show, Drew knows this, I am extraordinarily pro-vaccine in general. People have called me a vaccine

zealot in the past. I've written prolifically on the importance of vaccines, but this one is very problematic. So my last question to you before you go is, from your perspective, the why. This wasn't just they're a bunch of dumb people at the FDA. This isn't they're just a bunch of dumb people at the CDC. Something else. What's your theory? So, you know, I think it's a good question. I tend to believe just sort of in bureaucratic incentive and in things getting started and it's hard to stop them. But I think in this case, that doesn't really adequately explain what we've seen. Clearly, the profit motive on the private side became very, very powerful once they saw how big a market this could be. I do think that if you look at the very beginning, the origins of this pandemic, which we still

don't know, but it probably came out of that. I know. Right? I know. So if you're Tony Fauci, and you know that you supported this research in some way that led to this catastrophic accident, and it's January, and you are hearing that the Chinese are building, you know, they're trying to shut down an entire region and build 10,000 hospital beds in a week. And you are scared, okay?

You want to be able to tell people that you have the answer. And at the least, you don't want people thinking about where this came from. You want to focus on, oh, this is a really severe problem, but I, Tony Fauci, and the people at the NIH, and the other good people in the U.S. government are going to help us solve this. We're going to lock down, and we, it's interesting, the vaccine in some ways is sort of overpowered, right? So it causes this massive increase in antibodies in people, you know, early on, you know, which is probably one reason why there's this reaction, right? You lose them so quickly because you have a number, you know, your neutralizing antibodies are way above what you get in response to an infection. Okay. So, so what, so I, these two things may sound unrelated, but I'm not sure they are unrelated, especially when you look at sort of

Fauci as the linchpin of all of it, that the idea was we're going to design a really successful or a really powerful vaccine. And, and we're going to, you know, we're going to lock down and we're going to get through these trials quickly. And we're going to get to the other side of this. And in the end, nobody's going to particularly be worried about where this came from. And certainly nobody's going to blame me, Tony Fauci, because I solved the problem. Is it, is it that simple? No, it's probably not. But I think that could be part of the answer. I'm sorry. Well, it could be. It could.

No, it could be. But that doesn't explain people like Fauci who know better, totally dismissing natural immunity, things of that sort, saying that everybody should get vaccinated, that children are at risk. It does not explain those things. Yeah, it doesn't. But it was this weird delusion around china got it right what the ccp was doing look at look at how successful they're being we got to we got to be like them and just

that thought should have had them pause but yes but now when you say it now so you're going they avoided these things um but sorry ke Kelly, what were you going to say? No, as I say, so Drew's going with it. They just were really stupid theory that they're just stupid. I, you know, I have to say when you start saying things, you know, really disregarding natural immunity, disregarding the efficacy of things like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine and simple FDA-approved, inexpensive, readily available medications, when you keep foisting vaccines on people

whose risk of COVID is so de minimis as to be essentially indistinguishable from zero, these don't have to do with simply wanting a win in your column with a vaccine. This has to do with something else that is causing you. So maybe money. I mean, I could be convinced that it's the money, but there's something else. Kelly, I'm going to let you keep speculating after we let Alex go. Alex, just on your parting shot to us, look forward 10 months. What do you foresee?

I mean, I've become a little bit more optimistic in the last month or two, because, because you do look at these hospitalization numbers. And that's right, I get to be back on Twitter. No, I think, look, could there be a mutation that comes out that, you know, sort of combines the Omicron contagiousness with the Delta virulence? There could be. And I don't think the vaccines will do anybody any good in that case. But it seems to me right now, the base case is that, you know, we sort of have this going forward. We have a lot of people getting what is essentially a cold or a cold slash minor flu for them. We continue to have, you know, death numbers because we're so

aggressively counting this. We have some increase in all cause mortality. I don't, when you look at the all cause mortality, it doesn't appear to be stepping up. So if we can just kind of like take boosters off the table, maybe we'll be living with this sort of five to 10% increase in, in all cause mortality. I mean, that's a horrible thing, but it's something we can live with. So I guess, you know, this is dangerous. COVID has made fools of all of us, but if you're going to make me make a prediction, I guess my base case is that what we've seen the last three to four months is not going to change that much so that we you know there'll still be waves

but in no way is this going to be um a societal crisis going forward if that makes sense i think that's i think that's a good bet and we we uh i guess some other time i want to talk to you about the delusion itself which is in the title of your book isn't't it? What's the name of the book now? Help me. Pandemia. The Hysteria of the Coronavirus. Yes. I'm still trying to figure out how hysteria grabbed the world. The world became hysterical.

That to me was like really a stunning thing that hopefully we don't forget. There are some very sophisticated behavioral scientists pushing it. Don't forget that, Drew. Dr. Drew. Right. Pushing that idea? Yeah, oh yeah, trying to make people hysterical, right? Oh, I see. I see.

Oh, interesting. Alright, Alex, thank you so much. Good luck with the book. Hope to talk to you again soon. Thank you, sir. Thanks, Alex. Come back again soon. Alright, so Kelly, you see a dark uh cloud on the horizon causing all this what if it what if it is some uh influencer i mean you know all roads seem to lead to china right in this how this thing went down couldn't somebody be sort of

under the thumb of uh influence i mean god knows they're all over the place, seems like. Right. Well, at a minimum, I think this is largely far more about control than about money per se. Money is always a big driver. But this is really, in my mind, about control. We watch every part of it, the lockdown, the masks, everything. The vaccines are one small component of that. I don't think that these people are just intellectually stupid. I don't think they just failed to recognize the things that could happen. They covered up data. There's fraud here in my perspective on Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J's part. They had access to data that they did not release. The FDA has come to decisions with regard to authorizing or suggesting, recommending vaccines

that defies logic. I sat and watched the FDA, the committees, the advisory committee meetings. They go over all the data, the lack of safety, the lack of efficacy, and they say, so I think we should recommend vaccines. You're like, how could you possibly? So you can't really watch all of it, I don't think, and come to the conclusion that this is sort of just incompetence. Could it be coming from China? You bet. I think that that's the likely thing. I think that there are other players like Bill Gates, who is fundamentally the Antichrist, you know, who is really... Oh, careful.

I kind of like what Gates is doing. Sorry. No, well, well, well, yeah, we do disagree because Bill Gates has been on the record saying that we need a significant decrease in the population of the globe for the betterment of the rest of us. So somebody who says that isn't necessarily the person who I want to take my medical cues from. He's also not a physician, not a doctor. Right. Right.

So but he really believes in mass vaccination and he you know he this isn't wouldn't be the first foray down a vaccination uh road that led to some pretty devastating um outcomes this wouldn't be his first time uh that way so let's he didn't exactly have a stellar track record if you will um so yes i do think that there are other yeah there are other things at play here than just money well what about what about the idea now like i spoke you know i sort of have relationship with There are other things at play here than just money. What about the idea? I sort of have a relationship with some people that are in politics. I had some governors call me during the pandemic who didn't want to lock down. They were completely stricken by the idea that their job was to lock people down.

They were like, that's not why I'm the governor. But I'm being forced to lock people down. They were like, that's not why I'm the governor. But I'm being forced to do this thing. And then there were people like Newsom that skipped all the way to the lockdown with his friend Garcetti. Couldn't wait to do it. Couldn't wait. It's almost like a psychology of some leaders. They like that kind of control. And we should be very cautious about that kind of thing, it seems to me, or at least limit their capacity to act that out. No, no question. This was a power grab.

The data in the research on lockdowns, Drew, is well documented. We've known for decades that lockdowns will do far more harm than good. In fact, on June 9th, 2020, June 9th, the CEOs of the Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic wrote an op-ed to the New York Times saying that the lockdowns, in their estimation, would cause more death than COVID itself. I know. They said that June 9th. We've known this. Medical science knew this. So the only reason you could do this, we know it would not stop the spread, and it didn't. If you look at areas around the world that didn't go into lockdown. I mean, why, by the way, is nobody talking?

You know, here's a fun thing to do. Why is no one talking about the scourge of COVID saying, oh, sub-Saharan Africa? None of them have been vaccinated. No vaccines. Okay. No lockdown, no masks. Stunning, huh? No one's talking about that. Why is that? We don't have to go that far. Let's just call it Orlando. Let's just call it Orlando for the sake of argument. Yes. So it turns out, look at the homeless. Look at the homeless in places like LA and New York. There was no huge, believe me, it'd be all over the news if homeless people were dropping

dead like flies from COVID. They aren't exactly well known for their ability to socially distance in homeless encampments. They don't wear a lot of masks. We had a weird problem, Kelly. We had a weird problem. They would get it when they went into the shelters. And as long as they were outside on the streets and moving air outdoors, guess what? Nobody gets it.

Yeah. They weren't bathing in Purell. They weren't wearing masks. Take a stab at this. Okay. So hold on a second. No, it looks like all the callers have kind of like backed away. Well, there's 90 people out there.

Oh, no. Oh, no. I've scared everybody off. But they're listening patiently. And we can't see the Twitch comments, but they're fine. They're over there having a good time. Are we still on YouTube, Caleb? Yes.

We are. Amazing. Yeah, we didn't pull the plug. We'll see what happens. Even though I said the I, i actually slipped the i word in there that's almost where i cut it off but i i can later on if i need to i can cut the end off so i'm just gonna have it there for now hopefully request on twitter spaces and join the conversation who is that now what is any nobody's nobody wants join. I'm looking at a bunch of them. They are, they are texting, they are chatting away.

Oh, they are? Yeah. And let me see what they're interested in. They're, they're just sort of reinforcing some of the data we've been talking about. And again, I don't, you know, if, if, if Alex wants to argue about the all cause mortality, as he said, you know, that was just one life insurance company. Well, it was the largest life insurance company in the United States. And the CEO, as I said, has said that that is replicated throughout the industry.

Even if it was a fraction of that, even if it's 5% to 10% increase, these are seminal events that would have a profound impact we should be we should be running to look at this but but it will yes my suspicion is that that data will come in i i'm i'm reserving judgment on the insurance data and on the liver cells reverse transcriptase story those are those are two that i'm holding over here to see how they play out as time goes on um let's see we have we do have some requests now coming in here let's uh talk to uh ephraim all right ephraim go ahead and yeah it's uh interesting to talk to alex isn't he's uh been through an interesting uh experience in covid ephraim what's up uh hey uh drew uh dr drew yeah victory e Ephraim, what's up? Hey, Drew, Dr. Drew, Dr. Victory. My question is only kind of

tangentially related. Have you read any of what's come out from Dr. Birx's book about how she's kind of testing herself as the hero for specifically undermining the effort to, not just undermine the effort to try and push for longer than 15 days, which we all knew in the beginning anyway. But also her basically admitting to falsifying documents to keep the policy going. Right. Yes. Just wondering if you're obviously aware of it. I want to express a little bit of a disgust about it and spread that around. All right. What do you think? Well, I certainly share

your disgust. She absolutely acknowledged that, Ephraim, in the book. She said she, quote, had to be very cautious about not letting their true intentions be known to the president. That would have been President Trump, because they knew that if they allowed him to know what their true plan was, specifically that the lockdown was never going to be just two weeks. They knew that President Trump, being the businessman that he is, would understand that would have a profound impact on the economy and therefore would not go for it. She absolutely acknowledged that she was duplicitous in the way that she advised the president and in the way that they presented data to him throughout the pandemic.

Frankly, I'm not sure that treason is too strong a word when you're talking about people who are specifically going against the express desires and trajectory that the sitting president wants to take us and kelly i i um i had great admiration for uh somewhat for dr burks but definitely for dr fauci i mean he really is somebody my entire career i've looked towards for guidance and you know as a figurehead and say and was exceptional during aids i do remember he was a little histrionic he kept saying where the two million people are gonna die this is two million are dead unless we do something. And that's why I got on the radio and that's why I started educating. I took it very seriously.

And maybe he was right. Maybe that would have been the number had we not really gone out and scared the shit out of everyone with that one too. We scared a whole generation of adolescents in the 1990s about their risk for HIV and AIDS. And the outcome was okay. It was not great, but we didn't get 2 million dead in those few years that we were fighting so hard. What happened to these guys? They were really, I mean, they were so good. I keep expecting to revert back to the mean.

Yeah, don't hold your breath. I can tell you, first of all, Anthony Fauci hasn't had a stethoscope in his ears in 55 years now. Last time he practiced clinical medicine, the CAT scan wasn't invented. Furthermore, he is a horrible communicator. One of the key roles of a public health official or anyone at the helm is to be a good communicator to the public. And he has failed at that. Um, more importantly, he failed in the number one mandate of public health drew, which is to consider the impact of any intervention on the entire public. And it's not just the physical health of the entire public. It's a spiritual

health, the mental health, the financial health, all of that. And instead, we profoundly, we destroyed the lives and livelihoods of hundreds of millions of Americans, two and a half years of the educations of our children. And God only knows, it will be more than a decade, I am guessing, before we can truly understand the absolute impact of all of these interventions, including masking and shutdowns. And the use of fear to me was so weird, so astonishing. It literally be like you and I walk in the room going, you have tuberculosis, you put a mask on, but you have tuberculosis, stay with your family. You got to stay, you know, no, you go, hey, don't worry about it. I got this. I got it. You're going to put a mask on, but you have to stay with your family. You got to stay. No, you go, hey, don't worry about it. I got this.

I got it. You're going to take five minutes. You won't be contagious in a couple of weeks. Wear the mask. I mean, you're supposed to bring everything, make people feel contained and cared for, not panic-stricken and hysterical. Exactly. I teach a course on leadership in times of crisis.

And I've had to boil the entire seminar down to one thing. It's that fear is a very, very powerful intoxicant. People are unable to make good decisions when they are in a place of fear. And one of your key roles as a leader, whether it's a public health leader, political leader, I don't care what kind of leader, is to lead people out of fear, not drive them into the basement, not drive them into fear. When I say basement, I mean figuratively and literally. We are supposed to lead them out of fear because it is only by having clarity, even if it's

scary, it is only by having clarity of what is before them can they make reasonable decisions. This has all been so, so disturbing and so confusing and so problematic. And Kelly and I will be talking to more of the people that have been criticized during the run of this thing. Dr. McCullough and Dr. Corey and Dr. Malone. We're going to hear what they have to say. Again, all three won't be in unison on any of this. We're trying to just raise the issues, look at them, move us towards the truth. It's pretty clear that things were underway during this pandemic that were, I mean, you can look back and you can interpret it any way you want.

You can look back and go, well, we just didn't know what was going on. They did the best they could. They did lock it down for a little longer than they should have. And only a few states really were crazy, like California. And most of the states really kind of opened up and did okay. And kids went back to school, not for two years in California, but okay, in any event. But you could have a more, what would the word be, sort of a gentler brush looking at this. But when you knew it when it was happening, that there was something wrong, it's hard not to look back with a certain amount of resentment and concern, particularly that it could happen again. And people just seem to want it to go away. As Churchill said, who, by the way, did not lead by telling people,

we're going to get bombed. You're going to get bombed. They're going to send bombs over. No, he said, fight, fight, and then get up and fight again. And that's what we need to, we need that kind of, it's a much healthier attitude. And he also was famous for saying, those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it, which is one of the scariest things that, I believe that to be an axiom, a truth. And if we don't look at what we did wrong, we're going to really screw things up, including maybe considering that we don't want certain forces, certain bureaucrats, bureaucracies, which are now the enemy in our world, to have so much power.

Maybe they shouldn't. Maybe there should be some limitations, some procedural aspects to this, so it doesn't run amok again and harm people the way this did. Kelly, last thoughts, and we'll wrap this thing up. Well, as you say, and that brings us full circle to what we started with, Drew, which is censorship. This type of debate, discussion that we just had here today is critical. This is what medicine and healthcare was based on, robust, vigorous, respectful, but rigorous debate. I don't take offense when you disagree with me or when Alex disagrees with me. That's what we should be doing. Tell me why it is you think I've misinterpreted the study. Why did I under or overestimate the risk? Why is my understanding

of the data incorrect? That's how we come to the best decisions. For years, I had a plaque on my desk when I was running a huge healthcare company. It said, argue with me. Tell me why this is the worst idea. Tell me why I'm wrong. And that's what we should be doing. Censorship, which has been going on from the beginning, was the first real, real red flag to me that something has arrived. Because if it wasn't, you would have happily just had me being there and say, no, you're wrong. And here's why you're wrong, Dr. Kelly Victory. Shutting me down, kicking me off platforms, trying to decimate and destroy my career, my reputation, and not just me, by the way.

As you said, Peter McCullough, Robert Malone, and many, many other really great, solid, not only human beings, but stellar physicians have had their careers and their lives destroyed over this past two and a half years. We need this kind of discussion. Yep, I agree. And so we'll try to bring up for the next few weeks. Ms. Producer, who is our guest next week? Do we have that set up yet?

Ask Mr. Producer. Oh, Caleb, do we know who that is? I don't. I think I can answer it myself. We have. I think it's Robert Malone. I think it's Robert Malone. That's what I had heard. Isn't it Dr. Malone? I think it's Robert Malone. That's what I had heard.

Isn't it Dr. Malone? I believe so. I think that it's Robert Malone. I didn't want to hype it up too much, but I'm pretty sure that that's who's coming on either next week or the week after. We have some exciting people ahead. We're so good at our promotional skills here.

He is famous for the mass formation psychosis, right? Wasn't that one of Malone's ideas, that notion? I don't think he's one who actually, it was actually a German psychologist who wrote the first sort of pivotal, really laid it out in such an articulate way about how this is happening. But many people have adopted it.

And I think he was spot, really spot on about how this happened, how people's fear took over and developed into a true mass formation psychosis. I'm going to look that up. I think Dr. Malone- Before we talk to Malone. The Dr. Malone that we're referring to, I think he was one of the inventors of mRNA vaccines. That's correct.

Yes. That's correct. He's attributed really to being one of the people who developed and has been very, very outspoken about the problems with this particular vaccine. And Susan, anything on Rumble or? Everybody's having a good discussion. They are screaming there. I see a lot of the capitals what is that all about yeah well people can find me on yeah people can find me on on getter since i'm off twitter you'll have to find me on on getter next wednesday is dr peter mccullough mccullough next week and then i'm going into it i couldn't find it on my phone for a second and then robert malone is on the 24th

okay and then we have na Wolf coming up, right? Oh my God. I just, Kelly, I just read her book. It's, it's. I don't know when that is. I don't. It goes, it, I don't agree with like the last few chapters, but reading up to those points, it is so interesting hearing her thinking as things evolved.

I mean, you know, Naomi is an extremely bright woman and she was clear, you know, as a writer, she and her, her, uh, I really, I just thought, my God, this is a historical document, this is somebody who was in, you know, trying to understand what was going on as it evolved and a thinking person was what's going on here. What is this? What am I seeing? Why is this happening and then it sort of culminates in her getting trashed and silenced and cancelled right and then she you know tries to recover and tries talking to people to try to help her understand what happened

and it's very hard to do that very hard yeah well i i i'm super excited i am flying here in rarefied air with you and then Dr. Malone and Dr. McCullough and Naomi Wolf. It should be some really, really interesting conversations. I'm looking forward to all of them. Yeah, it'll be interesting. It should be interesting. So everybody just use it as information. We're trying to approximate. We're trying to get to the truth.

We're trying to get towards the truth. All right, Kelly, thank you so much. Dr. Kelly Victory, you can find her at earlycovidcare.org. And she'll be back here with us next Sunday, next Wednesday. And we have a show tomorrow, too. We have a show tomorrow where I'll be talking to a urologist about erectile dysfunction. We're going to go in a totally different direction tomorrow. So it's Dr. Taps, we've had on here before,

she's very entertaining. And so we'll kind of wrap it up with that. There she is. It goes right along with Kelly's joke today. Right, with the necrosed genitals. We'll talk to her about that too, so why not? Well everybody, we'll see you tomorrow at three o'clock Pacific time.

Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future.

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