Ask Dr. Drew - Dr. Kelly Victory on mRNA Nanoparticles in COVID-19 Vaccines – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 104

Episode Date: August 1, 2022

Nanoparticles are a key component of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines. Though adverse reactions are rare amongst the USA's 601,000,000 doses, Dr. Kelly Victory has concerns about the nanoparticle technology, mRNA, polyethylene glycol, and other ingredients that could trigger allergies.  Dr. Kelly Victory MD is a board-certified trauma and emergency specialist with over 15 years of clinical experience. She served as CMO for Whole Health Management, delivering on-site healthcare services for Fortune 500 companies. She holds a BS from Duke University and her MD from the University of North Carolina. [This episode was originally broadcast on July 26, 2022] Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (http://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. SPONSORED BY • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get 10% off with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew GEAR PROVIDED BY • BLUE MICS - After more than 30 years in broadcasting, Dr. Drew's iconic voice has reached pristine clarity through Blue Microphones. But you don't need a fancy studio to sound great with Blue's lineup: ranging from high-quality USB mics like the Yeti, to studio-grade XLR mics like Dr. Drew's Blueberry. Find your best sound at https://drdrew.com/blue • ELGATO - Every week, Dr. Drew broadcasts live shows from his home studio under soft, clean lighting from Elgato's Key Lights. From the control room, the producers manage Dr. Drew's streams with a Stream Deck XL, and ingest HD video with a Camlink 4K. Add a professional touch to your streams or Zoom calls with Elgato. See how Elgato's lights transformed Dr. Drew's set: https://drdrew.com/sponsors/elgato/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today, I'm speaking to Dr. Kelly Victory. She is someone we've spoken to before, and of course, this is an update. I've known Dr. Victory for a long time. She's a board-certified ER physician with decades of experience. She also is the CMO of Whole Health Management, delivering healthcare to Fortune 500 companies. We're going to get into it a little bit. She and I don't always agree on everything, but that's how it should work.

That's how medicine works. That's how science works. We just have discussions about things, and the more public and the more we hash things out, the way we find the truth, that's how we find our way to the truth. Today, amongst other things, we'll be talking about nanoparticles and exosomes, those sorts of things. And it's an article a bit above my level of expertise, but I'm interested in finding out more and hopefully Dr. Victory can enlighten us. And we are taking your calls over at Twitter spaces. And of course, we're watching you at the Rumble Rant and at the Restream Chat. So we'll look for you all there and let's get going. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopaths start this. He was

an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say.

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Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Welcome, everyone. We appreciate you being here. Again, we are at Twitter Spaces. If you want to ask questions of Dr. Victory or myself, you just raise your hand and I'll bring you up to the podium and you will be agreeing to stream out on multiple platforms. It includes Twitter, Twitch, YouTube, Facebook, Rumble. We're all over the place. Did I miss anybody? Susan Pinsky, how are you?

Fine. We had an interesting, lovely weekend in Montana with a family wedding. It was beautiful and everybody came home sick uh we have more covet in the house again uh well we don't know if it's in the house you know someone's in new york though well i'm assuming the one of our people in one of the houses yeah and uh we were all exposed to the one that was that is sick and by the way um she reported to me that there are already multiple reports from the wedding group. Well, what's weird is Paulina had COVID in June, and she's got it again. But she was kissing and hugging everybody. And she's fully vaxxed and boosted. I have this thing about weddings.

I don't kiss the bride and the groom. You know, everybody hugs the bride and groom. I give them fist pumps because I don't want to get sick. And I got sick during my wedding because I kissed everybody. And Paulina was just up and hugging everybody and face-to-face with everybody because, you know, maybe she felt a little bit more immune than the usual person because she just had COVID. And lo and behold, she got it. But she may have also got on the plane because she got stuck in the airport on the way over. And she was sitting in the airport a long time and on two planes.

And then she had to take another plane. In other words, she might have brought it to the wedding. But there are already multiple reports of COVID breaking out. Oh, for sure. For sure. Did she tell you? It was the most kissy-huggy party I've ever been to. But have you actually heard what's happening?

No, what happened? Multiple out, multiple people sick. I mean, I got mine on Fourth of July weekend. So obviously, that's when you pick it up. Right. That's when you go around to the people. So she got it on Fourth of July, and then I was locked in a room with her for three days didn't get a thing yeah so but i mean it wasn't that bad i had a sore throat the first day was kind of miserable because you have

a sore throat and you just feel crappy and point is you get better activity is highly unpredictable the degree to which you are actually sick with it is difficult to predict uh you know the use of paxlovid and fully vaccinated relatively young people has really not been studied. So we're sort of flying by the seat of our pants with that. Well, yeah, she took Paxlovid, so maybe she doesn't really have the immunity now. Well, that's one of the concerns about that. That would be my thing. But I prefer to just tough it out, get over the virus, and then hope that I don't get it again.

That's what she's doing this time. She didn't like the taste she got in her mouth from the Paxlovid. I get kind of a little runny nose from the party so maybe i'm fighting it off never know uh there but it's not that bad it's not like you know i'm not gonna die let's see other people i'm looking at the restream there are many many of our our restreamers that have had to covet recently yeah and let's be fair the uh let's bring in dr victory let me do that even if you have a vaccine, you're going to catch it. Dr. Victory has a BS from Duke, an MD from University of North Carolina. Again, she's

an ER doctor with decades of experience. And Dr. Kelly has been commenting on COVID since the beginning. She has very specific opinions about this that I admire. I don't always agree with, but I love to engage with her. Dr. Victory, welcome. Hey, thanks for having me as always, Drew. So what I was going to build to, and I wanted to bring you in on this conversation, is the R-naught on alpha and delta was three. The R-naught on BA5 Omicron is 17. So the question remains, can we really do anything to prevent the sort of spread of this thing other than beef up our own immunity as much as possible? As I've been saying from the very beginning, Drew, and you well know, viruses mutate.

All viruses mutate. And coronaviruses are particularly adept at it. They do it more quickly than other viruses. And as they mutate, they do with extraordinarily rare, really reportable exception, they do two things. Number one, they become more contagious. And number two, they become less lethal. And that is precisely what we are seeing with COVID-19. This virus is endemic, meaning it is here to stay. We are not going to eradicate it. We never were going to eradicate it. Just like were going to eradicate it,

just like we haven't eradicated influenza or the common cold or a myriad of other viruses. We need to learn to live with it. The reality, unfortunately, because of this vaccine program and the specifics of these vaccines, it is driving, unfortunately, the vaccinated to be at higher risk for contracting COVID than those who are unvaccinated. And the data are irrefutable. Now, this does not make me anti-vaccine on anything, but I've spent much of my career in public health writing and speaking about the importance of vaccination. The reality is, however, these particular vaccines are highly problematic. We'd start with the fact that they are non-sterilizing, meaning they don't prevent you from contracting the virus.

And as a result, they in all likelihood drive viral mutation more quickly than would otherwise occur in nature. And we're seeing everybody from you guys and, you know, our sitting president, twice vaccinated, double boosted, coming down with COVID. It's simply the reality. I want to stop and break this down piece by piece.

So now one of the concerns about the current vaccines, and there's lots of concerns and there's lots of sort of things to talk about. So concern one is it's not against the variant that is circulating it's against the alpha essentially the alpha and the delta variant now having said that my understanding is that the cellular immunity caused by the vaccines that are out thus far and i have to ask you about the different kinds of vaccines because there's more stuff coming um but the cellular immunity does seem to confer some benefit from the standpoint of reducing severity of illness do you agree with that there there may be it's it's unclear let's start with the first piece of it it is absolutely a fact that the vaccines, none of them, cause you to create antibodies

to the right spike protein. All of these vaccines were predicated on the original Wuhan strain of COVID. And they force, they cause you to develop spike proteins and then create antibodies to them. It's a spike protein, however, that doesn't exist any longer. It is mutated out of existence. So if you were to get vaccinated today for COVID with any of the available vaccines or boosted with any of the available boosters, you will induce your body to create antibodies to a spike protein that

doesn't exist. You will create an army of immunity to something that isn't out there. So pretty much useless. Whether there's some level of cellular immunity that confers protection against severe illness is tough to know largely, Drew, because the current variants, namely Omicron and then the sub-variants BA4 and BA ba5 don't cause severe illness so how the hell would you know if you had any protection i would say i i would say i don't know what you saw clinically but not so much with ba4 bfi but that ba2 point what was it 72 that that one i saw some unvaccinated get very sick and i saw vaccinated sort of doing awfully well with it so i feel like the earlier omicron we there was something good going on from the vaccine right now i kind of

agree with you i'm not sure what we're getting out of it though would you also agree that in the the elderly population let's say 75 plus being vaccinated and boosted probably a good idea based on currently available data agree or disagree with that well i probably if you know i can't really um suggest these current back the vaccines based on the current um i'm not going to ask you that that's different that's different that's a different question that should you get reboosted now should you have been vaccinated and boosted to this point if you're over 75 years of age yeah yeah yes and i said from the very beginning okay were my parents living you know in their 90s in a nursing home early on with what we knew then yeah i would have said it's there's nothing in medicine that doesn't boil down to a risk benefit calculation so when you're talking about people over the age of 80 who are otherwise you know might be immunocompromised then the risk

benefit calculation perhaps worked in their favor for the rest of us uh you know healthy people under the age of 50 and god only knows healthy people 18. the the risk benefit calculation never, never made sense for that group. Okay. I'm going to get to those issues because I agree with you on most of that, but let's get to that in a second. So like, for instance, back to your original statement that I interrupted about not revaccinating right now, I totally agree with you. In fact, I've got double boosted 75-year-olds coming at me now going, should I get a third booster? And I've been telling them, no, wait till if we're going to do this, let's do it in September, October when we have an Omicron booster. Let's wait till then.

You have plenty of cellular immunity. You don't need more antibodies against a thing that's not circulating. Let's wait until we get the proper vaccine in place. That's been my advice. Do you agree with that? Well, here's my problem with it by the time this vet the new what they call the bivalent vaccine comes out the drug manufacturers are working currently at a new vaccine that includes for some unknown reason still includes

the wuhan strain but also incorporates uh mr and i don't why, since it's extinct, but it also incorporates mRNA from the newer variants, namely BA4 and BA5. A couple of problems. Number one, by the time they roll this thing out in September, October, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but BA4 and BA5 will be gone. It will have mutated to a different version. We are always fighting last year's war. On top of it, this is uncharted territory, Drew. Not only is mRNA vaccination uncharted territory, but the concept of boosting and boosting and boosting in rapid succession for something, I mean, these are uncharted waters. We don't know the long-term effects. And that for me, why are we continuing to do this when we have a very mild virus that's going on?

I would ask you and Susan, for example, of the people who you know who quote got sick at this wedding, if it weren't good, take yourself back in time, try to put yourself in the mindset of 2019. if you'd gone to a wedding and come back with these same symptoms would you even have mentioned it would you even have no this this whole right this whole covet thing has gotten people every time they sneeze or sniffle it's like it's heightened people's concern and awareness to an unhealthy level prior to to this, this is what we called in the olden days, a cold. We called this a cold back in the olden days. I'd be more worried

about unplanned pregnancies at this wedding we went to. So what? Alcohol poisoning. And then it getting COVID. Yeah, right. Or liver failure. We had a couple of those oh my god uh i am uh looking up the name of this epidemiologist uh was it holton something like that uh hang on a second um dr victor and i have a new hero he's a sc dermatologist epidemiologist who uh got up, shoot, what is his name? Paul Holtham, there it is. Paul Holtham gave a press conference where he said, we're about to have a mask mandate in Southern California, in Los Angeles by a sociologist based on numbers.

Our hospital is not admitting anybody with COVID. We have no one in the hospital. We have no one in the ICU. We're not even seeing respiratory symptoms. This is not based on anything real. And then he went on to say, and this is why I bring this up. He goes, surely you must be having a really difficult time not having something to be frightened of. So, oh yes, let's get monkey pox. Let's look for monkey pox. But they've moved right on past monkey pox, I've noticed, in the last 48 hours particularly, to long COVID hysteria.

Have you seen this? Yes. Now they're saying, well, yeah, kids don't get sick, but they could get long COVID. And long COVID is going to cause mass disability in the state of California. I was like, oh, my God, where did this come from? This is insanity. I'll let you comment. No, and it's not based in fact. The long COVID is a term

that was made up during this pandemic. It's what you and I used to call during our training and during clinical practice, post-viral syndrome. There are many viruses, not just COVID. Epstein-Barr virus, for example, known very well for it. Influenza, other viruses that are well known for having protracted and sometimes very strange symptoms that can last for weeks or months following a severe infection. All of a sudden with COVID, that got termed long COVID rather than just post-viral syndrome. There is zero evidence that someone who doesn't become significantly ill, i.e. a child, somebody under the age of 30 who has a mild case of COVID and gets over it, that those people are at risk for post-viral syndrome of any sort. So again,

this is craven fear-mongering that's been going on from the beginning. Yes. I don't know if you saw that New England Journal article that was really quite good that looked at, I forget how the study was constructed, I read it a few weeks ago, but it was essentially the conclusion was, which is what impressed me, was that the probability of long symptomatology post-COVID is identical to any other diagnosis that had been hospitalized once they're out of the hospital. Of course, when you're very sick, you feel like shit for a while afterwards. That's how it works. Now, I will back off that and say a little bit. I had long COVID twice, and it was a very unique kind of a thing. And let's be fair, this is an endovascular disease. It's slightly different than your average cold.

It has some features to it that are kind of wild. And whatever that long COVID thing is that we have not actually defined to your point, we haven't really defined what it is yet. It's something, but it is in almost every case it improves and it can be treated. Again, I refer you guys to COVIDlong every case it improves and it can be treated again i refer you guys to covidlonghaulers.com and it doesn't cause sustained disability except in very very rare exceptions and those people were already very very sick now let me just pile on top of that do you want to comment on that first kelly and then i'll well i was just going to say that that i could say from my own

personal experience i had a case of what we presume was influenza back when I was considerably younger. I had just finished my residency. I was very sick for a couple of weeks with a viral infection, and it lasted for the long-term effects, feeling fatigued, muscle aches, exercise intolerance, was so profound that I actually went about six months later, Drew, and had a stress test. And you may know I was a distance runner for the better part of my life,

and I could not run. Six, eight months later, I went and had a stress test because I was convinced I had some cardiac issue. And instead it was just, quote, long, you know, post-viral syndrome. It went away, but it was worried. It was bothersome and it resolves. Oh, it's miserable. It's terrible. It's awful. Nobody should ask. No, no, I don't wish this on anybody, but it's not like something we've never seen before. That's the point. And then number two, I noticed something since we

last talked, I don't think I've mentioned this to you. Do you notice how most of the medical directors for the public health systems in states are pediatricians? Have you noticed that? Which makes sense. Let me just say, it makes sense because they're the vaccine people, right? They're the ones that are really worried about childhood illnesses. And the things where epidemiology normally bears out, which is in childhood illnesses and vaccine therapies, but they are not educated in adult illness. And almost every pediatrician I have spoken to that has COVID, what should we call it? COVID long hauler distress, like fear of COVID long hauler, has said something like, I don't want those neurological problems.

There's brain shrinkage. They show their brain shrink. And I thought to myself, and when I was talking to them, I didn't really respond because it was so odd for me to think the doctors are worried. Then I said, oh, they don't have any adult experience with neurology. They don't know that these old brains shrink in response to all kinds of things, and then they get better. And even if they stay shrunk and they compensate, and there's not long-term neurological effects from these things, so their focus is as though we're talking about a child's brain, which is a very different thing than an adult's brain,

and they're fearful of something that is essentially a non-issue. What's your say? Right. No, I agree with you. And on top of it, not only are the people at the helm of this public health response commonly pediatricians, they're either pediatricians or they're non-physicians at all. Look at Dr. Barbara Ferrer there in Los Angeles. She's a social worker.

No, no, no. The average pediatrician. I don't think she's even a... No, I think she's a sociologist. She's a social scientist. I don't think she... Yeah, sociologist. Yeah, you're right.

I don't think she's... She's a social psychopath. Social scientist. Yeah, but she's not a doctor a social psychopath. But she's not a doctor. I don't think she even has that train. No. If she was a social worker, I'd be a little happier. Go ahead, Fauci. Go ahead, Fauci.

My point is that the people at the helm... No, he's ID. But he hasn't had a stethoscope around his neck for 54 years. The last time he practiced clinical medicine, the CAT scan hadn't been invented. True story. I mean, these are people who, pediatricians don't treat sick people with COVID because children don't get sick with COVID.

So why from the beginning of this, have they gone over and I mean, big tech and the government, everybody tried to shut down people like me who are actually treating COVID patients, who actually see COVID patients, who actually know the protocols, can speak with authority about what works and what doesn't. Instead, they've tried to shut us down and they defer to either, you know, a sociologist or a pediatrician or somebody who's been out of clinical medicine for more than half a century. Well, here's one thing I've noticed. This whole thing was so, as people know that watch this stream, was so mystifying to me and so stunning that what happened to our profession and our

peers and the way they were behaving, it was hard for me to understand. One thing it was stunning that what happened to our profession and our peers and the way they were behaving, it was all hard for me to understand. And so one thing was I was thinking, oh, they're pediatricians. They're not adult doctors. They don't have judgment around this stuff. I get it. Okay. And then, oh, they're not doctors at all, and they a new thing occurred to me that two phenomenon have emerged as not just the priorities in the decision-making, but the sole phenomenology of making a decision. So during COVID, it was safety uber alice, right? Safety uber alice. So safety, one death is too many, which is an insane thing to say if you're trying to make a risk-reward analysis.

Remember those days? Yeah, it was insane. So saying that as a physician, you're not making a risk-reward decision then. You're doing something where you're going to harm because whenever you don't take the risk and the rewards into consideration, you're going to load up on the harms. They're just going to accumulate. And they did, and they did.

We all bore witness to the economic harms, the harms to schoolchildren. It just goes up and up and up. And we're only just beginning to mine the seriousness of what that essentially following the zero COVID policy of the Chinese Communist Party. That's what we did. We decided the Chinese had it right. The zero COVID was the right way to go about this. And they did it properly. And we're going to damn, we're going to do exactly what they did, which was precisely wrong, was not even a risk-reward analysis, but okay, safety Uber Alice.

But I've noticed what has emerged lately, and I think this is what's going on with Dr. Ferrer, it's gone from safety Uber Alice to equity Uber Alice. So equity becomes the only frame for making, now I'm not saying that safety isn't important, and I'm not saying equity isn't important. They are important. They should factor into your decision-making. They shouldn't be the sole way you evaluate a decision. And it's clear to me that they just look at these one variable, and that's the prism through which they make their decisions. And man, you hurt people when you do that. What do you say?

Yeah, well, what I would say, you know, I have a long career in public health, Drew. And what I would say is when I put on my public health hat, it's very, very different from when I am practicing one-on-one clinical medicine. When I'm in the emergency department or in my, you know, office and somebody comes in, they are my sole concern, that individual and what is best for that individual. Put on my public health hat and it's a whole different ballgame. It is the mandate of public health to consider the impact of any particular mitigation scheme on the entire population, not just an individual, which means they were obligated to consider what will the impact of the lockdown be on everybody, mask mandates, shutting down schools, limitations on capacity at bars and restaurants, and on and on.

One of their gravest mistakes was acting as if everyone was at equivalent risk from this virus when we knew from the very beginning that that wasn't the case. We knew that this was a disease that primarily impacted the elderly and the otherwise infirm. We knew from the beginning that children were at such a de minimis risk from COVID as to essentially be indistinguishable from zero, yet they applied with a broad brush. Everybody must wear a mask. Everybody must socially distance. Everybody must stay home and destroy their life and their livelihood. This was absolutely a debacle. And they dropped, they broke essentially

every foundational construct of public health. And everybody has to panic yeah and people are still panicking it's like a cold like like i said oh you're okay you have covid i hope you're okay i go i'm fine look even when i had serious covid which was horrible and nasty i had a one percent fatality rate as a 60 year old one percent fatality i mean i appreciate if people care about look but the one percent fatality rate you shouldn't even be thinking about fatality. I wasn't. As a physician, I was like, 1%. Correct.

I didn't even think about it. So not an issue. I guess when you don't have a sore throat for three years and you've been a pristine non-COVID person, a lot of people are like, I haven't had COVID yet. And I'm like, good for you. Yeah, good for you. And you get a sore throat, and it's like the end of the world. It's like, oh my God, I haven't had a sore throat in three years like holy shoes so susan i sent you to run to you're reading a

book that was written by one of our other guests uh and you you i was snake well well and i mentioned some of the michael p singer some of the issues it's good kelly have you read it yet there he is it's really it's an extreme point of view uh and but in it he was it's a it's a point of view look i i'm so moderate you know how extreme can you be against china like all right so give me a break and so susan you pulled out of there some some well i what i found interesting we were talking about how we were following the policies of the Chinese Communist Party. How did that happen? Yeah, so China said, you know, let's lock down.

And then this guy wrote in a paper, he was basically a guy who wrote books about the hidden meaning of Star Wars. And it went viral. His paper. And he ended up heading on over to Germany and Britain and pushing this problem and saying, we need to shut down everything. And then Germany picked it up, and then they started something called the Panic Paper. And this is all based on speculation due to spanish flu and it had nothing to do with medicine and the cdc never agreed to it and you guys always talk about this like you know the who

just sort of picked up whatever the china was doing and then china started their propaganda push which was through facebook and telling everybody you know you know advertising the pandemic response in China and what a good thing it was right and then social media yeah let me interject it go ahead let me interject here for a second Susan the to be clear the who didn't quote pick up what the CCP was doing the who is the long arm of the Chinese Communist Party. Tedros Ghebreyesus, you know, it was appointed, handpicked by the Chinese Communist Party to carry out their wishes at the level of the World Health Organization. They are essentially one in the same.

Yeah. So that seems to be true. A lot of this stuff started, you know, during Mao's days. Like they used to say that there was... I don't want to get all political. Yeah, don't go too far down the rabbit hole. Yeah, but it was a reaction to Trump's institution. They were pretty mad. There was, yes.

And when it came out, they just figured out a way to stop China from spreading it. But then they were right because they knew what to do. And nobody had any reason behind it besides just fear and panic. Fear and panic caused by the press, a medical establishment. Or a guy that wrote Star Wars papers. A medical establishment that was buying the propaganda of another country and in a panic themselves adopting that policy that was completely ill-fated. Well, you know what's funny is a lot of it was tweet bots and people that went on Twitter from China and they were pushing the agenda through Twitter. And I was dealing with that when they were attacking you but and then we ended up started getting shut down by

by um youtube because it was all chinese driven so susan is having a little ptsd oh no no i mean i'm reading this book and i'm like yep that's exactly what happened you know and and i think that being you know of clear mind and maybe an older generation, we were just like, no, this isn't right. You know, we're not going to jump on this bandwagon. So there was a weird hysteria and some people have called it, you know, you know, this delusional syndrome of some type. It was a weird hysteria that captured the country. And I understand it was a scary time and we didn't know what was going on. But back to this issue of capturing the Chinese policy of zero COVID, Dr. Fauci has been on the record again lately. I keep hoping he'll come back to his baseline because I've been an admirer of his for

40 years. So I'm looking for him to get back to his old self. He did say something just, I saw it today, where he said, you know, I never advise schools to lock down. Never. And I remember that. I remember saying, is the CDC telling you to do this? Is Fauci telling you? No, we just decided to do it. And you know what? At the time, it felt like to me was really kind of a Trump derangement syndrome. Like if Trump said, don't worry about these extreme measures that were not recommended by the CDC ever. And even the CDC itself was already in bad territory in terms of the direction it was heading. It was going, again, towards lockdown, that kind of thing. But they never said no schools. Go ahead, Kelly. Well, as I say, people started parroting these things as if they were established constructs within public health. Things like social distancing, totally made up, totally made up construct, not a lick of scientific evidence or research behind it.

I have an entire library of public health books,ology books virology books um i defy anybody to pick up any one of those textbooks and find where the phrase social distancing even appears in the index made up that's right we've known for decades that masks do not stop the spread of respiratory viruses we have 200 plus published studies studies on my website, and then real world data proving they don't work. Yet people would parrot this. We've got people out there putting your stickers on the floor at the Walmart, you know, stand here to be six feet apart from the person in front of you. One way stickers down the grocery store aisle. This is insanity. Plexiglass shields to stop a respiratory virus. Have you lost your mind?

I mean, this is stuff that even if you're, you know, even if you're not a doctor or an epidemiologist, at some point, most people took biology in ninth grade. And I would hope would start saying, wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. You know, you watch the people walking down the street in January in New York City with those masks on and there are plumes of condensation coming out the side and over the top. I'm thinking, where do you think the air is going, people? Where do you think the virus is going? Oh my Lord. And by the way, the plexiglass shield. Yeah, the virus hates circulating air. So a great way to make the air not circulate, put a bunch of plexiglass shields in the room. My nail ladies still have that.

They still have that. And they don't wear masks. But all it does is screw up your nails when you hit that little edge. It pisses me off. Well, the whole thing is insane. I'm making light of it but on the other hand it's tragic because you take a mom and pop shop or somebody who's trying to stay afloat those nail salons you know they're they're working on what you know profit margin

and they've got to now spend a bunch of money on masks and plexiglass shields and take out every other, you know, pedicure chair. I mean, what a crazy, crazy, unnecessary, you know, smoldering where the economy was. Yeah. The level of incompetence was on full display. Closing beaches and playgrounds. Right. Insanity. And then we'll open them, but don't lie down and don't put a towel down.

No sitting on the beach. That is grotesque incompetence in full display. Yes. Call it what it is. Yes. And it's either, it's stupid or a liar. And they weren't lying about it. It's fakery.

It's just stupid. No. It's fakery. It's incompetence. We're telling you what to do because we know it's right. Right. Well, that's a different issue. Well, you didn't study medicine, obviously. It's an, oh, we're telling you what to do because we know it's right. Right. Well, that's a different issue. Well, you didn't study medicine, obviously.

It's an incompetence. And then you're talking about businesses. You know how many businesses were just – there was a business here of hamburger stands like three generations old that now has – it's all encased essentially in metal with a padlock on it because they dared to continue to serve hamburgers outside in violation of the public health mandate. This is weird. That's disgusting. This is not, I understand it wasn't normal times, but this was, one thing if it was fully justified, it just wasn't.

Well, and the scary part is, it's a communist plot, okay? I'm only going to say this once. Susan is obviously having an extreme day, but go ahead, Kelly. Go ahead. Well, you know, in addition to the tragedy and the travesty of what happened to hundreds of millions of people because of this debacle. The bigger concern now, moving forward, is I've spent the last two decades in public health. What's going to happen when we sound the alarm bell about the next thing? Because there will be a next thing. There will be a next crisis, at which time we need to get the attention and the buy-in of the American public and the global population.

And they have essentially tuned out public health. There are people who will never, ever listen to a public health mandate again, because they've said these people are idiots, they're incompetent, they have nefarious intent, they're evil, whatever it is they think. But they sure as hell aren't saying, wow, you guys did such a bangararang job we can't wait to listen to you for you know guidance the next time around bangarang susan i like that word hey are you guys are you gonna bring up the nanoparticles yes yes we are we got a lot to talk she and i we get going we can't i love kelly i've missed you so much. Missed you guys too. We were going to give, Kelly and I before

the mics heated up, we were saying, I treated tuberculosis just last weekend. We're getting drug resistance, even polydrug resistance tuberculosis. Let's get upset about that because that's on the rise rapidly. But no, that doesn't have the same ring as

monkey pox does it it doesn't quite strike the ear the same way oh my god i'm sorry well if you're just desperate if you're desperate to be fearful about something i suggest it shouldn't be coveted as you're saying drew and what i've been telling people you're just desperate to hide in the basement about something, might I suggest drug-resistant tuberculosis, because that's a lot more, it's something you have a lot more reason to fear. And monkeypox, you know, the reality, Susan, is that, you know, monkeypox, we have known about in humans since the mid-1980s. It's relatively rare. We have small outbreaks in sub-Saharan Africa and in other third world countries, not infrequently. And the reality is, number one, it is not a

respiratory virus. There is no reason that the average individual is at any risk from it. It is spread by direct skin-to-skin contact. And the vast majority vast majority as in 99 of the documented cases are amongst men who are having sex with other men that is the reality and it would be very easy shut this down and and we have vaccines and we have treatment for it, all of the above. And it's not a fatal illness. It's a nasty illness. It's not fatal. It's primarily a disfigurement. It's like that level of nasty. Well, the concern is, like smallpox, yeah, the concern is that it's disfiguring,

because in the same way that smallpox disfigured people because of the scarring, but monkeypox, and frankly, if it were not politically incorrect to say what I'm about to say, the reality is if they came out from a public health perspective and said, anybody who is in that population should refrain from having skin to skin intimate contact for 21 days, we'd essentially wipe it out. Unfortunately, that's somehow deemed as being homophobic, when instead it is the most solid public health advice you could give. Stop having sexual contact for three weeks, and we will wipe out the monkeypox outbreak in this country.

It's really quite simple. That's an impossibility. You just can't expect people to be able to do that. Just three weeks, not three months, three years. But here's the deal. I know. But we used to make advice during HIV. People did stuff like that far longer. But that's beside the point. But Kelly, it's back to what I was telling you. You can't say that because the only evaluative prism is equity. And if you're thinking of equity, you must treat the small as the whole. And so you can't say anything specific about subgroups. You're not allowed. And so that's how you hurt people. That's my point.

If you only use equity as the only means for evaluation, you will hurt people. And you have to aim for equity. You have to strive for equity but it can't be the only criteria of your decision making and and your messaging too for that matter so i don't mean to get graphic but can i ask a question um it does it mean yes but is it skin to skin inside or just like arm to arm it gets up into the anus and stuff uh it can be very there have to be micro tears there have to be yeah there have to be micro tears and that's why and that's why uh intercourse is is at high put you at high risk because there can be micro tears um if you just touch you know one finger intact skin to intact skin you're not going to spread anything just like

you don't spread herpes frankly that way thank you for clarifying that because it didn't make sense to me. There has to be some broken skin, even if it's just, you know, minuscule or microscopic. All right. Let's take a little break here with our friends from GenuCell. We have Dr. Kelly Victory with us here, ER doctor. I'll give you a chance when we get back, you can find, oh, is earlycovidcare.org? Is that you? Earlycovidcare.org, yep. Okay. I'll also give you a chance to talk about, do you still want to talk about your organization

that treats the Fortune 500 companies? Oh, no, no, no, no. That's a former life. I did do that for many years. But that's, no, no, no. That was that. That's a former life that I did do that. OK, I wasn't sure. But that's no, no. But I do think we should touch on this issue about the nanoparticle concern. We will. These vaccines.

I'd like to talk about that. We absolutely. Like I said, we got a lot. Maybe we can take a question. We'll take some calls and all that when we get back. I think we have found the holy grail of skincare. GenuCell has absolutely changed certainly my skincare regimen. I like that vitamin C serum, the under eye creams, skin nourishing primer. Susan loves the eyelash enhancers, uses it on her eyebrows as well.

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from me. But when I was introduced to GenuCell, I was so happy because it's so affordable and it works great. I was introduced to the Ultra Retinol Cream, which I love at night. All the eye creams are amazing. People notice my skin all the time, and I'm so excited because it's actually working. Right now, you can try GenuCell's most popular collection of products and see what I'm talking about for yourself. Go to GenuCell.com and enter code DREW for 10% off. That is G-E-N-U-C-E-l.com and the code is d-r-e-w back uh susan any follow-on to that i also like the hyaluronic acid underneath my skin cream it

plumps your skin up and then you put the skin cream on top and it holds all the moisture in it was uh she was very busy with that and the eyelash stuff they have great stuff yep there you go uh okay so dr kelly victor here with us again as i said uh genusel.com slash drews where you can get the genusel please do that support we support the people that support us here and uh before the break we were being we were hinting at talking about nanoparticles and and i assume so nanoparticles is a whole field of really chemical engineering, right? Which are these small nanosized, really nanometer-sized particles that can do lots of interesting things. I've read about it.

It's something that I did not study in my training. So my first sort of position is I don't really in a position to talk about this stuff, except to say that my understanding is that when you talk about nanoparticles and biological systems, you're really talking about exosomes. Is that correct? Well, no. Really what it is, is it's an entire technology, Drew, that essentially uses small particles to deliver something to where you want it to go. There are nano-emulsions, meaning liquids. There are little nano-particles which are used in these vaccines. It's a way of taking a compound or something to encapsulate something that you want to deliver elsewhere.

So you want to get it so you could swallow it, you might inject it intravenously, or you might inject it into the muscle, but it takes generally the electrophysiologic components of it, meaning, is it attracted to fat or to water, to help to facilitate the ability for you to deliver something to a very targeted area. So whether you're trying to get a chemotherapy agent right to the, you know, right spot or whatever. Dr. Yes. Yes. But, but, but there is, there are inorganic nanoparticles, which are sort of, you know, they're, they're building blocks of crystals and things. And when you're talking biological systems, usually you're talking about budding of

bilipid membranes, which cells do of their own accord. Their exosomes are things that cells, it's sort of how ribosomes work and endoplasmic reticulums and things. They're forming these budding little things that are gold, not the gold, I guess it'd be the endoplasmic reticulum that these bud, these little things off with proteins in it, and it goes off into the cell or it goes outside the cell if it, if it, you know, binds with the lipid bilayer.

So it's in biological systems, these exosomes, they already exist, but your concern is these, these manufactured exosomes. Yes. The, yes. And so these lipid nanoparticles, you know, take the, everybody knows, I hope by now, that the current vaccines for COVID use mRNA. Well, the syringe isn't just full of mRNA. To get it into your arm, into the deltoid muscle, and subsequently where they want it to go, it had to be put in some kind of a carrier. So what they used was a lipid nanoparticle, kind of a small, tiny, tiny little

fat globule, if you will. They put the mRNA in a little fat globule, millions of them, and then that's what's in the syringe. So they inject these lipid nanoparticles that are carrying the mRNA. So turns out I have huge concerns and we could talk about those again about the mRNA component of the vaccines. That by itself is problematic. The fact that you are induced to create these spike proteins is problematic. This is another problem. The nanoparticles themselves, the little fat globules themselves, turns out there's significant concern about the toxicity of those. And this isn't new,

Drew. The study I sent to you was published in 2018, but concern from scientists and physicians about potential toxicity to the reproductive system, amongst other places, from nanoparticles dates back to over a decade ago. I found studies back to 2010, 2011, and the concerns are multiple. So when you then add this concern about potential toxicity to the reproductive system, and I could talk about the where and the why of that, and you add that to the real life data that we are seeing, which is reduction in the birth rate in 2021 in Taiwan. All around the globe, we are seeing a drop in birth rates. Interestingly, the CDC says it's, quote, because of the pandemic. Well, what about the pandemic would cause a drop in birth rates? Last I checked, you lock people indoors and don't let them leave, they're more likely to have more sex, not less. So the idea that birth rates have dropped in a concerning way around the globe at the same time as we have launched these vaccines that include

as a core component, lipid nanoparticles does cause me some concern. And again, I can't say with certainty that that's the cause of it, but it's one of those things that should make scientists. It's what you and I do. We look at trends, we look at things that are anomalous, and we're supposed to say, wow, that's strange. What's going on? There is a lot of weird data out there right there's a lot of weird excess deaths and places you don't expect to see it and it's hard to really yeah there's a lot of stuff I'm worrying about Alex Berenson has his own little way of analyzing all that I worry about it once you tell us what the theory was about the exosomes effect on the reproductive system? Sure. Well, we've known, let's go back to, we know from a study that was released from Japan,

prior to the vaccines actually being launched in this country back at the beginning of 2020, we know based on the Pfizer vaccine, we were told that the Pfizer vaccine would stay in your deltoid muscle. That's the first thing we were told. It stays in your deltoid muscle that's the first thing we were told stays in your deltoid and mRNA is eliminated from the body very very quickly still on the CDC's website they'd say within several days so stays

in your arm goes away within several days turns out they knew from the Japanese study on the Pfizer vaccine it doesn't stay in your arm. Within a matter of hours, the mRNA made it to almost every major organ system, the brain, the lungs, the heart, spleen, kidney, colon, and alarmingly, 11% of it ended up in the reproductive organs, specifically the testes and the ovaries. So we knew early on that this vaccine was ending up in the testes and the ovaries. So we knew early on that this vaccine was ending up in the testes and the ovaries. Then it turned out, we now know from a number of studies, that it doesn't break down in several days. They have documented that the mRNA remains more than 30 days in most individuals and potentially up to six months in some people.

So it isn't broken down very quickly. Then we started seeing the data about impacts, for example, on sperm and sperm count, sperm quality decreased in vaccinated individuals. We're seeing interruption of the development of eggs. We're seeing a decrease in the number of developing of the follicles that are supposed to develop in order to allow you to get pregnant. We know that the nanoparticles, those little fat globules, we now know they cross the blood testicular barrier. They cross the blood placental barrier. They cross the blood placenta barrier. In other words, there's a barrier in place between the blood and many of the organs, including the testes, the placenta, the brain, that prevents

lots of toxic particles from crossing it. These nanoparticles are able to cross it. So they are able to get in. And the researchers in that study that I gave you from 2018, interestingly came out of China. They acknowledge that it is unclear what exactly is causing the cell damage. Is it a result of inflammation? Is a result of an autoimmune issue? Is it oxidative stress? They can't say with certainty. All they can say is that a number of different cell types within the reproductive system are being significantly damaged by these nanoparticles. So there's that concern. And again, as with, you know, we've talked before that these vaccines are

not without concerns. And maybe people of childbearing age shouldn't have it. Well, that's one thing that is, again, part of the risk-reward analysis. I think if I knew that, I probably wouldn't have had it. I'd rather get COVID. Now, to be fair, in the early hours, say the first year of this thing, Alpha and Delta, we were in a bit more of a wartime posture, right? I mean, the risk we were all willing to take to prevent the illness was higher than say now, right? And now- But I would submit to you, Drew, that we, I would submit to you that that was the case

because people were misled about their actual level of risk. If you had told young, healthy women of childbearing age, your risk from COVID is 0.001% of having a bad outcome. But instead, people were led to believe that they were at higher risk. And that is why they were in that mindset of, oh, shoot, I better roll the dice and get it. I think it's a valid point. And I would only push back on that mindset of, oh, shoot, I better roll the dice and get it. I think it's a valid point. And I would only push back on that by saying, yes, but we were all in a hurry to get out of this thing. We were being held down with a knee on our throat. And then we have to help each other.

Right, and that we were responsible for each other. And also, that was not accurate necessarily. But okay, And so there were issues all the way along and you brought up earlier, might've accelerated some of the mutations and all, which again, that's a viable sort of position. But now it's different. Now we have a different variant. It's a different issue. The risk reward is a lot different. Like we discussed earlier, the 75 year old plus it's a little clearer what we're doing we're not so worried about the so-called long-term effects

we're certainly not worried about reproductive organs right i mean we're not seeing the kind of myocarditis problems that we're seeing in the younger population we just we kind of know more what we're doing with the eighth and ninth decades of life as it comes to this illness and we use paxlovid because that's where it's been studied and it works. So we have lots of good stuff for the people that are actually harmed by this illness. The ones that are actually harmed by it are the old people. Okay, so the question then becomes, what do we do with everybody else? My first question is, what about Novavax and Covaxin?

Do you have more comfort with either or both of those since they are completely different kinds of platforms? Still spike protein. There's still some myocarditis with Novav those since they are completely different kinds of platforms? Still spike protein. There's still some myocarditis with Novavax. What are your thoughts on those two? Yeah, well, Novavax is the one I know the most about. I certainly had early on much more confidence in Novavax primarily because it does not utilize mRNA.

mRNA is problematic by itself. There's never been a safe and effective mRNA vaccine. And as I just said, while we were told that number one would stay where it was put, and number two, it would get eliminated from the body very quickly, and number three, we were told that it could not or would not incorporate into the DNA, all of those things are false. I didn't mention the last one. We now know from the big study out of Sweden that it actually does incorporate into DNA, specifically in the liver, and it does so within six hours of getting the shot. So lots of problems with mRNA. Novavax

doesn't use mRNA. It uses another virus to actually carry some of the spike proteins into your body, hoping that you will produce then antibodies to them. The reality is this though, it still uses the spike proteins, Drew, from the original Wuhan strain. So if you get a Novavax vaccine today, you will create antibodies to a spike protein that doesn't exist. You will develop a useless army. But welcome to bureaucratic practice of medicine.

So for us to travel to Europe, I may have to get a booster, even though I've had COVID twice and a vaccine, which I reacted terribly to. And if I do have to get a vaccine, I'm going to want to get the Novavax if they'll allow me to use that as a booster. Well, it's certainly safer. It will be – it's safer for – That's what it seems to be. Absolutely.

It isn't going to protect you any better, but it won't harm you. And at this point, it's so much scarier, but that's sort of the calculation we're making. It isn't going to protect you, but at least it hopefully won't hurt you. So let me, I want to go, the last thing you said about the DNA being altered from the mRNA vaccines. We don't have a reverse transcriptase in human cells. And for mRNA to move in and out of a nucleus, it needs a tail on it as a specific transport tail. How does it get in the nucleus? Well, and I said, I'm sure, quite sure on this very show, and I think you and I opined on it,

you know, now probably well over a year ago, Drew, when people asked about that, I said, no, of all the concerns you have, you don't need to worry about that because that's not how it works. mRNA doesn't get incorporated into DNA. I said that because that's the way it's always been. This study out of Sweden, Drew, very concerning. This mRNA reverse transcribed into the DNA in hepatic cells. Again, this is a lab, the virus was clearly lab created, and whatever they did to this mRNA allows it to reverse transcribe. This isn't my conjecture.

This is a huge study out of Sweden, very alarming, and it did it within six hours. So what I, I was one of the people, as I said, I came out and said, well, that's tinfoil hat stuff can't happen that's you don't understand medicine until it happened yeah yeah um so i can't say why it's happening what they did to it but i can say that the swedish study proved that it reverse transcribed into the dna of liver cells all right i i that seems weird to me, but okay. Me too. And so if, I just don't, I can't get it, but okay. I'm not going to argue because I haven't really read it.

But the, so it brings us to the issue of what to do if you're a young person, right? If I had teenage kids. Or if you wanted to have a baby. Well, first of all, if I had teenage kids. That's a young kid to me. I don't think I would get them vaccinated. If I had children, I definitely wouldn't get them vaccinated. Well, our kids got vaccinated.

No, no, I mean teenage. Teenage or young children. Child age. Paulina was in Brooklyn. She had to get vaccinated. She couldn't go outside. They're adults. They're a different category.

But they were 29. That's childbearing age. Well, now this brings up you've already raised that issue kelly what about somebody in 30 to 40 age group should they be driven by personal preference should we be recommending it how should what should our position be on vaccine therapies with omicron well obviously people need to make a decision based on that risk benefit calculation. What is your individual risk of a severe outcome from COVID and weigh that against your potential risks and the potential benefits from the vaccine. At this point, we know the vaccine

will not prevent you from getting COVID, and it won't prevent you from spreading it. The best they could say that it might do is prevent you from getting serious illness. The reality is the current variants don't cause serious illness. So the calculus from my end falls clearly in favor of not getting vaccinated. There are a lot of things that people should be vaccinated. I get that. I get that.

I recommend vaccines all the time. I disagree. I still lean a little more towards vax because I guess I've seen so much nasty COVID. Even with the Omicron? Even with the Omicron. Not with the BA5. I mean, for older people, obviously. And by the way, I treat mostly elderly patients, and so I'm sort of comfortable with the boosting because I've seen them do well with it.

They come out okay. But I'm ambivalent, obviously. And this is, again, this is the ballgame, right? This is why you see more than one. That's why people should get consultations and talk to different doctors and listen to different doctors' opinions. We don't all have the exact same view on had covered twice this year i'm not getting the booster all right but what if what if we want to how many here's a question here's a if it's a rule and i have to do it i'll do it i don't think you should get either here's the question to both of you just

and this is just sort of uh you know for my own interest yeah how many people do you know who aren't vaccinated who got COVID more than once? Less than the people who did. That's her point. I do. I mean, it's true. Correct. Correct. People like me who are unvaccinated, who got COVID. I travel on an airplane every week. I'm not saying I couldn't get BA4 or BA5. I'm not invincible. Eventually, the virus will mutate to a form that my antibodies and my T cells and my B cells don't recognize. And I'll get it just like I can get a cold next year, even though I had one last year. It can happen. But the reality is, it is the vaccinated and the highly vaccinated who are getting this thing over and over and over again, because the vaccine induced immunity,

it doesn't hold a candle to natural immunity. And unfortunately, people who are vaccinated, who go on like you, Susan, or you, Drew, to get that don't mount the same level of immune response. The data are irrefutable. Yeah, but if it was Delta, you could die from it. Like, clearly, it's probably a better idea. But also, if, you know, once you've had it a couple times, it just gets less and less, right? You don't get as sick. It's just a cold. Well, the virus is mutating to the point that's just less and less. That's what I'm saying,

Susan, as it mutates. We are fortunate that this virus, despite the fact that it was lab manipulated, it didn't occur in nature, we are fortunate that it is behaving like a naturally occurring virus in that it's doing those two things. It's becoming more contagious, but less lethal as it mutates. And that's a fortunate thing. And do not give us a YouTube ding. We're just speculating. Maybe it came from a wet market. I don't know, but we don't know where it came from. But there's certainly our features that make it look like a're manipulated by us who cares i care okay no it's just i mean i'm not afraid of it because i'm sort of in an age group where i

i had the vaccine i've had covet a couple times my daughter's got it right now she doesn't feel well but i think she's going to come out of it okay. And, you know, but living through it and, I mean, I've had so many viruses since the kids were little. Like, I think I was sick every month for 18 years of their lives. And, honestly, I think my immune system needs to catch up. I need to get a cold. I need to get COVID. I don't want to be hiding away from the

bugs, you know, because they're still going to be out there. Right. And you shouldn't. And I really, this is, yeah. And I think what we really need to happen is we need folks to get back to the good old basics of focusing on all of the things that enhance your immune system's function, everything from adequate sleep, regular exercise, stress mitigation, you know, those sorts of things. Taking vitamin D, zinc, vitamin C, the things that we know inexpensive, easy to take, and profoundly decrease your risk

of having a severe infection from COVID, as well as influenza, the common cold, and a host of other viruses that are out there all the time. That's what I would really like to see people start focusing on. Jump the fear, dump the mask, forget this ridiculous concepts of social distancing, get back on a plane and get back out there because we have early treatment. If you do get COVID, there are lots of ways that we can decrease significant side effects should you become more ill with more than just common cold type symptoms. We've learned a lot.

I mean, if people want to wear a mask and they don't want to go out and they want to get the vaccine, do it. If that's your preference, do it. You know, Dr. Kelly is not necessarily telling everybody to do exactly what she says. She's just giving her advice from what she's seen. Now, I have one more thing I want to bring up because this is the reason I have a weird feeling about booster shots. We have two comedian friends who had the vaccine and about a week later fell down and both hit their heads and had one went to the ER and the other one passed away. And they just literally just fell down and fainted, hit

the back of their head without... So this is what I've been worrying about with the vaccines, particularly of the really under 35, but under 50 to some extent, which is the myocarditis and the POTS, which I think has been poorly characterized and poorly documented as of yet. And these two folks had POTS where they had complete and total loss of their blood pressure all of a sudden

and fractured their skull and the occiput, both in the exact same place. Because when you lose your blood pressure, you just kind of go back. You collapse in the back, you know, your head flips back. One was on stage, the other one was alone in a hotel room. And guess which one passed away? But there's another piece to it. I haven't seen this documented, but there's some suggestion that it's the spike protein

itself and therefore COVID itself can do this as well as the vaccine. What do we do with all that stuff, Kelly? Well, I would say, first of all, these are unfortunate and we are seeing them by the throngs. If you Google died suddenly, died suddenly has become one of the most common lines in an obituary or a death notice. The idea that they have come up with this brand new, totally made up diagnosis of SADS, sudden adult death syndrome, in their defense, I suppose, you know, died unexpectedly from complications of a tragic, you know, untested vaccine is a little unwieldy. So SADS rolls off the tip of your tongue better. But the reality is we have people who are dropping. In all likelihood, I have to say, Drew, this is POTS for people who are listening, is postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, which means

when you stand up, generally it happens when you go from sitting to standing, that all of a sudden your heart rate becomes very, very fast. Your heart doesn't beat at the normal rate and therefore you lose your blood pressure. These people who you're talking about most likely had a cardiac dysrhythmia. Their heart started beating erratically. We're seeing it all the time. It's why we are seeing young, healthy athletes died at 22 times the average rate last year in 2021. You have all kinds of people who are collapsing while running. The NFL has had, what, four people under the age of 35 drop dead while exercising in the past couple of months.

This isn't normal. We have tennis players dropping out of major tournaments because they're dropping dead or, excuse me, collapsing or having chest pain. We're seeing people pass out in swimming pools. This is happening from cardiac dysrhythmia, abnormal heart rhythms that therefore cause you to not pump adequate amount of blood to your brain. You don't get blood to your brain, you don't get oxygen to your brain, and you pass out. Unless you are with people who can intervene quickly, you're going to end up at the bottom of a swimming pool and you're going to be dead.

And then what happens is happening all the time. They do autopsies and they're saying, quote, you know, natural causes. Well, let's just look at somebody like Justin Bieber. Maybe Justin Bieber's Ramsey Hunt syndrome was just bad luck and his 26 year old wife's brain hemorrhage just bad luck that's some pretty bad luck in people who are too young and too healthy to be happy to be fair hers was even you're going to like what she she actually had a paradoxical embolus she had a dvt and a patent for a mono volley and then you have to ask yourself what are causing excess clotting? The vaccines are associated with excess clotting.

Right. Correct. And so what I'm saying is that, you know, again, we are seeing and we know, again, from the data that's being reported by the life insurance companies, there's been a 40% increase in all cause mortality in 18 to 49 year olds, 40%. If you know anything about statistics, that's a four sigma increase. Absolutely unheard of. What's causing that?

In my career, I've only seen, I don't know, I've only seen one in my career. And now I certainly feel like I'm seeing a lot more of that kind of stuff. And I don't know what to do with it and I don't understand why. Well, just, just the way we approach the idea that the vaccine caused myocarditis, I thought was very odd throughout my career. I don't know how you handle myocarditis in an emergency room, but myocarditis

is a medical emergency. You go right to the end of the hospital. It's because of exactly this. You can get rhythm disturbances and heart failure. I mean, it is a rare and serious thing. It's like, oh, well, only one per 3,000 myocarditis and most of it was mild. Yeah, I'm glad. It's still a very, very serious condition. And I don't understand why there's not more. Yeah, even if you get out of the hospital drew you have exponentially increased your risk of heart failure down the road there are people

who get over quote unquote their myocarditis and then are on the heart transplant list 20 years later um so and again i cannot say with certainty that any one individual case is the result of the vaccine, but it is the job of epidemiologists, the job of scientists and physicians to look at patterns and say, I can't speak about that one or even those three, but we have dozens, hundreds, thousands of them stacking up. And it is the job of the CDC. That's their job to look at these anomalies and delve into the data. Instead, I will get kicked, you know, I'm kicked off Twitter because I dared to raise the question. You know, they will take, you know,

50% of your YouTubes with me down because we discussed this. What I'm suggesting is that we actually follow the science. Let's act like scientists are supposed to act. We just have open, rigorous, vigorous debate about these things and come up with, if it's not the vaccines, great, I'm open. What do you think of it? Maybe people are just stressed out by climate. Maybe it's climate change. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Exactly. Let's figure this out. But I don't understand why it's not being dealt with with sense of urgency.

To me, it's like what they're saying is, oh, this really isn't real. It's like maybe we are overreporting it, but then publish something that tells me that that's the case. And I don't think that's what they're finding. I think it is. Well, because they're afraid of getting shut down by something i i don't know what they're afraid they seem to be afraid of the truth always i mean obviously health is not a one-size-fits-all so what here's what i think i think the reality is this they know darn well it's the vaccines and their ramifications the repercussions of that are so profound to come out and say now, whoops, after people have lost their jobs, lost their livelihoods, got kicked out of the military, weren't able to finish their educations.

You know, we're forced, mandated in many cases to get these injections, to come back now and say, turns out we actually hadn't tested them. We never tested them on pregnant women or women of childbearing age. We never tested them on people with autoimmune diseases. We never tested them on people who are on X, Y, and Z class of drugs. We just gave them, again, broad brush, told everybody to get one not only get one get two get three whatever it is i think the the fallout drew would be so profound um that i'm just not sure they can get their arms around it yeah but wouldn't you think there would be somebody that would do that research and really look at these things?

Well, you're looking back in time. You guys as clinicians are looking back and going, yeah, we could have done this a little differently. But we didn't know. I mean, history is not going to be kind. In 10 years, we're going to see more stuff. Both of us were asking for a different approach a year and a half ago. Yeah, you guys were. But now you can look back and see the defects.

The swine flu vaccine that came out in 1976 was going to get rolled out in a mass, again, a mass vaccination initiative was pulled from the market when there were 25 associated deaths.

25 got pulled off the market. We have tens of thousands of deaths that have been attributed to this that have been reported to VAERS. And everybody should know that VAERS wildly underestimates the actual number of adverse events. So again, I'm suggesting that although it might have made sense early on to say, look, this thing hasn't been adequately tested, but we're talking about giving it only to a small group of people, people in nursing homes, say, you know, people in nursing homes don't need to worry about fertility issues. We don't need to, frankly, we don't want them to get myocarditis, but they don't get myocarditis. They don't get it. Right. You know, they're at such high risk from this virus that we're going to roll the dice and we know it hasn't been tested and we're going to give it to those people. I could have lived with that. But the idea that you're going to take young military recruits who have not a risk in hell of getting significantly ill from COVID and you're going to force them to take these vaccines that can have lifelong effects. I mean, it's unconscionable i'm trying to get some calls going here let me uh we're not gonna have much time for them but

this is a trey give you a chance to go a little longer yeah yeah trey you're muted there your mic's in the lower left hand corner if you just unmute that there There you are. Hey, Drew. Hey there. How you doing? Good. Hey, I got a couple quick questions. One, have you seen any epiglottitis coming out of any of this COVID virus? I have not seen epiglottitis, but it doesn't surprise me there might be.

What do you say, Kelly? If you're diabetic, I imagine the risk could be higher. Kelly, what do you say? It's a great question. I haven't seen epiglottitis but what i can tell you we've seen a huge increase in what i call the itises uh myocarditis pericarditis hepatitis neuritis uh itis is itis being simply in medicine meaning inflammation so we're seeing gobs of things related to increased inflammation in the body. So epiglottitis would be inflammation of the epiglottis. And although I have not seen that,

it's not a stretch for me to imagine that that could be related to the vaccine because of this inflammatory process. And Trey, we think about epiglottitis you know is something it's children and diabetics are you diabetic no sir um real quick so june june 15th i suffered uh epiglottitis and i went to urgent care for a sore throat next thing you know they're hitting me with an epi pen and then i'm at the hospital getting an emergency tracheotomy. Oh, my God. Yeah, that was pleasant. Let me tell you, Drew. So after the tracheotomy, they put me on a ventilator,

and I got a subcutaneous emphysema. Is that something that happens often with that? Well, subcutaneous emphysema is either because they didn't put the trach tube in the right place or you had a you blew a bleb or something you know you blew out a part of the lung kelly any other ideas yeah they either either got a a small rent in uh in one of your airways that allowed air to get where it isn't supposed to be. No, that isn't normal. And epiglottitis is an emergency because you can close off your airway. It can swell your airway such that you can't breathe. It's generally infectious.

So I can't say with any certainty whether it could be related to the vaccine. It's generally an infectious process. Okay, yeah, no, there there's no they couldn't culture anything and i'm not allergic to anything weird 14 days in the icu after the procedure and now i'm in a outpatient uh in-home ot and pt because after my right eye almost came out of the socket. It was coming out. I was having, you know, really rapid heart beating from the air.

And I ended up pulling everything out of myself because the doctors wouldn't listen to me that it was crushing my brain and my heart. But, yeah, I was I was curious about that. Um, and you know, just wondering if epiglottitis, if you guys have, you've seen a lot of that lately. We have not, but man, dude, I'm so sorry. It sounds like one misadventure after another. And let's be clear, subcutaneous emphysema happens, but it's a complication of the intubation. It's not something you expect from the intubation. Woo. That is rough, man.

Woo. Uh, this is, uh, let's see. Talk to Steven. Steven. Uh, again, you got to, all you guys got to unmute your mics as you can. There you are. Steven, what's up? Oop. Now you are muted again. You were, you were unmuted a can. There you are. Steve, what's up? Now you are muted again. You were unmuted a second. There you are.

Okay, good. Is there any increase in heart attacks in, I'd say, males over 50 from the mRNA vaccine? Well, there's no question. One of the things that I posted early on, the thing that got me ultimately banned permanently from Twitter was I posted the sworn testimony from three military physicians who testified in front of Congress specifically about the increase in the incidence of certain things that they were seeing in calendar year 2021. And one of the things that they reported was a nearly 400% increase in heart attacks, myocardial infarctions, compared to other years. These physicians actually took the time, they went back and calculated the five-year average, Drew, from 2016 through 2020 of a number of different things, pulmonary embolisms, Bell's palsy, heart attacks, strokes, blood clots to the lung, infertility, lots of things, because it was their sense that they were seeing an increase in these things in 2021, but they wanted to actually

compare them to statistical and historic numbers. And as I said, they saw a nearly 400% increase in heart attacks, a huge increase, 367% increase in blood clots to the lung, massive increase of a 400% increase in Bell's palsy and on and on. So there's no question that we are seeing increases in these, the incidence of these particular things. And heart attacks, myocarditis, and pericarditis are amongst them. Someone named Sapphire on my stream here was telling me, according to the study you were talking about with the liver cells,

it is the L1 retrotransposon machinery in human cells that are able to retrotranscribe RNA to DNA. So there it is, that we do have an enzyme that will do it. I worry about blaming the vaccines for endovascular anything, because I think there's something about this spike protein,

whether it's from the infection or from the, from the vaccines that is doing some endovascular damage of some type of, what do you say? Right. Right. Well, but Drew, okay. So if you get COVID, you have the spike protein in your body for a matter of days before your immune system wipes it out. You get a vaccine, your body is given the roadmap, start creating these spike proteins. You're right. The spike protein is what's doing it, but you have just injected in you a roadmap that says, start creating this toxic thing that's going to attack all of your organ systems and it's going to attach itself to the endothelium of your vasculature.

So yeah, and there's no off switch. You know, we were told, as I said, it will be eliminated from your body within several days when it turns out it could stay for months. So yeah, you now have mRNA saying produces spike protein, produces spike protein, produces spike protein. So it is the vaccines because you are creating the toxic component, the spike protein, in addition to anything having to do with nanoparticles. Unmute your mic there, Hokie. There you are. Hey, Dr. Drew.

You're my homie now. I'm like eczema. You can't get rid of me. Welcome back. Hi. I just want to say, Dr. Kelly, you – I'm fascinated. I love to care about the freaking kidney, you know, glutamate, right? But we do have to have the understanding as far as medications and all of that for our

patients and the conditions and all of that. It makes sense. We also have to have a very second skill, which is hand skills, right? So it's like a double whammy of crap. And that's why we have the highest suicide rates and whatever else, you know, it's tough. But I am fascinated by everything you said, Dr. Kelly. It's, we need to hear this. I feel like I, okay, so I am, you know, in my early 30s, if anyone asks. It's my fifth, 29th birthday. But we don't hear much, like Dr. Drew said,

about the age group of 30 to 40, right? And I have to say that, like, I was one that didn't get the vaccine. And knock on wood, thank God, like, I'm doing the sign of the cross. I have to say that I have not gotten sick. And they let you stay in dental school without the vaccine? Well, no. And that's a whole other thing. I mean, we were obligated. But maybe it's the Axl Rose in me or something that I was just like, no.

And we agree. And there was a couple other girls in my class that we were just like, first of all, dr said you know what i mean we don't know what i'm sorry i forgot your name again are you tell us the name again you can call me mrs mrs rose okay i'm kidding i'm kidding but liz the the what i'm really interested from you is here are two peers just having a conversation about the medical issues of our time, which are very serious and have had massive social impact and massive developmental impact on children. All these things have had massive impact. Absolutely.

And we are very, very, very concerned about what our peers have been doing and what the medical system is doing and the public health. You're a young person. Yes. We have been largely silenced in our ability to sort of have these conversations. I talked to Pete.

Do you know who David Gorski is or Goreski, Kelly? He's a – A nobody. No, he's not. He was a breast cancer guy. He was attacked by the – You're not talking about the Gorski on Twitter. You're getting him mixed up.

I am talking about him. He's not a breast. Yes, he is. And he got attacked by the anti-vax world, so he's become very defensive. And he attacked me for daring to interview Pierre Corey. And I was like, we had an interesting conversation about the function of academic medicine and how off-base it had been. We weren't talking about vaccines or ivermectin or anything else. We were just talking about how our system,

how our peers were functioning, how bizarre it was. But I want to ask Liz, this is a good thing, right? The young people feel that it's a good thing to people to have open conversation that have experience and opinions. And honestly,

the reason I wanted to call in was just to you know no one cares you know about my my personal whatever but you know as a specimen if you will dr kelly you know i mean you know i'm 33 and i did not get the vaccine and i have never had covid knock on wood but but tell me as a young person though are we uh we're not gonna be we're not doing something offensive to young people by having these conversations no not at all i think this is great i think this is like what we all need to hear like hearing dr kelly tell us right all of the stuff that we already know i mean think about it i mean at this level you know we are you know biology and majors and we've had to do all this crap so we all understand understand that there's, you know, a flu vaccine is just an estimate of what mutated cell they think that it could be that certain year. And so, you know,

as you know, you know, we know these things, you know, more than just like a random public person, which trust me, guys, sometimes it's like, you don't want to know this stuff. It's boring. It's crazy. But, but we do know, and we understand these things and it's all like she was saying that the mutations we can't predict yes we just make our best guess it's biology is complicated there are not there are not just so truths in biology there's sort of right probabilistic truths and there's adjustment and you know again discourse to try to arrive at the truth. So we're trying to do that. That's what we're trying to do.

Right. And I guess my thing is that there were a few of us girls, you know, late 20s, early 30s that were like, you know, I don't want this vaccine. First of all, we don't know anything about it, really. You know, we don't know enough long-term studies because we haven't been able to go on for years and find out. So we still don't really know. I'm going to put you back in the audience, Liz. Thank you so much. When I went to France, the youth there was rising up about this.

Exactly what Liz was describing, there's a very significant wind blowing in the French youth around this issue. They're saying, look, you told us we're not going to get harmed by this thing but you know you're forcing us to get some vaccine that we you don't really fully understand the yeah so it's interesting it's all very interesting i i i certainly wouldn't want to be on the side of mandating a vaccine just to young people when the risks are limited so it would be no the reality is the immune immunology is the last great frontier of human medicine droop it's very complicated i am hardly anti-vaccine but what i am is pro-safety and pro-data and the average vaccine takes six to eight years if it to come to market if it ever comes to market many of them have failed there are a heck of a lot of viruses for which we've never created a safe and effective vaccine. For things like herpes,

Coxsackie virus, norovirus, HIV, lots of them. Not because we haven't tried, but because they've failed. And sometimes they've failed with devastating consequences during the trials. So when anybody says to me, these vaccines have been proven to be safe, I say, great, just show me the 36-month safety data. And they look at you blankly and they say, we don't have it. Of course you don't have it because these are brand new. We don't know the impact on fertility, autoimmune diseases, cancers, neurologic development, and on and on because they were inadequately tested. So even though I would argue that I'm probably a little

more on the side of vaccine and boosting, again, biased by my experience treating elderly patients, we would both, I'm just looking for our areas of agreement. We agree that under 20, very hard decision. Under eight, easy decision, don't do it. And in your 20s and 30s, personal decision, hard to make that decision. Look at Novavax, that might be a better alternative, maybe. Worried about endocarditis, worry about myocarditis worry about pots and we're worried about these things right so we we agree on all that stuff um uh worried about the psychological welfare of our humankind worried about our profession and how it behaved and what public health is all about now will people respond to public health next time and why did they adopt

the strategy of a Chinese Communist Party? And what did Trump derangement do to their decision making? There's so many things that have to be carefully analyzed. And what about the myocarditis? And how serious is it? And why isn't it being

taken more seriously? You know, this is all stuff that you and I could talk about all day, it seems to me. And I appreciate the chance to kind of stir it up, mix it up, look at these things. And these things I worry about.

I'm still using plenty of Paxlovid and people for which it's not been studied, you know, in middle age and younger people that want help with the illness. And it's working, even though we don't have the randomized controlled trials there. Seen some rebounds. I've seen some rebounds from Paxlovid. I'm worried my daughter who took Paxlovid may be sick now with Omicron because she didn't get a robust immune response because we gave her Paxlovid maybe. Maybe that's a possibility. I'm worried my daughter who took Pax livid may be sick now with Omicron because she didn't get a robust immune response because we gave her Pax livid maybe.

Maybe that's a possibility. I don't know. But these are all things that need to be discussed, need to be thought about. Yeah, what do you think about that? Well, yeah, again, again, Pax livid is a brand

new drug. We don't have a good data on it. We know that there are gobs of medication interactions. For example, the president has to be off of his blood thinner, his Eliquis, and off of his cholesterol medication while he's on the Paxlovid. Now, while he's not going to – Is he on Coumadin? Or is that heparin? No, he's off, and that's the problem.

They've taken him off of his blood thinners. So here's a guy who's at huge risk for stroke because it is irregular heartbeat. They've taken him off of that to treat him with an experimental antiviral. Yes. And these are concerning things to me. Why didn't they give him monoclonal antibodies? The jury's out whether they have or not they haven't said um but the reality is i'm not a huge fan again people who are relatively low

risk um you know why not use some of the other things that we know work very very well let me ask you is it is the yeah fluvoxamine I took. Is Coumadin contraindicated with Paxlovid? What's the issue? Is it how it's metabolized? I'd have to look at the whole list, Drew. Anything that's metabolized through the liver. I don't prescribe Paxlovid. You can always adjust it, though.

There's an enormous list of medications. But the bottom line is, again, I would say that when asked just recently at an FDA meeting, the three drug manufacturers, excuse me, vaccine manufacturers, Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J were asked how quickly they could come up with this new bivalent vaccine, the one that's going to include both the Wuhan strain and some of the Omicron sub-variants, VA4 and VA5. And they said, quote, unquote, well, we can do it very quickly, certainly by fall, as long as we don't have to provide any safety data. Seriously. This is a problem. Yeah, you're right. I could develop a new car if i didn't have to prove any safety data i could develop a lot of things true and put them out to the market if i a new baby car seats uh if i didn't have to have any safety data but but think about it this

way the way medicine is supposed to work is we're supposed to make those risk or decisions on behalf of the patient and you know obviously i know which way you'd come down with that decision and, and, and, and that's how it's supposed to work as opposed to handing down mandates on from on high. So I will just finish with the one thing that you and I categorically have extreme discomfort with is this tendency towards mandates and mandates and lockdowns and masking and mandates. These things do harm. Would we agree on that? 100% Drew, 100%. Yes, yes. And I also can agree with you that we need this kind of debate.

This is the most important thing you can do. And I appreciate you providing the platform for it. Yeah, it's not as simple as vaccine good, vaccine bad. You know what I mean? It's a complicated nuance. We spent an hour and a half going through all the different issues that are pertinent to this decision making and to the situation we're in. And for the people that came in late in the conversation, Dr. Kelly mentioned at the beginning how Delta was a stronger variant and the vaccines work, but now the vaccines don't work for that variant, for the Omicron variants.

But it's more complicated. Drew would tell you that that was a stronger variant and much more lethal than the Omicron. Okay, so Susan, you just reframed something that we were trying to tease through, which was there may be some cellular immunity left over that might decrease the risk of more severe illness. I had seen some bad illnesses in the BA2 variants. None of us are seeing severe illness in the BA5, so maybe we don't need to be concerned about it. So that's all the different thoughts she and I have to have before we make a decision.

Some people came into the conversation maybe halfway through on Rumble or wherever on YouTube. So yeah, listen to the beginning because she goes through every detail from the beginning. Yeah, we went through the first principles. They covered a lot of ground. Like, everybody's really going off and they're kind of confused. Yeah, if you didn't listen, if you didn't hear us talking from the beginning, it's probably hard to understand exactly what our position is. Yeah, there's a comprehensive beginning to end.

Yeah, because these are complicated decisions and it should be up to the patient doctor unit to be making these decisions, not the government and not centralized bureaucratic authority in medicine. But I mean, we want people to be well and we want them to live long lives and we want everybody to be happy

and get back to normal and be able to not be afraid to go in an airport or like she said, and I'm not, I, but honestly, I personally, I'm not a doctor, but I don't mind getting the virus. I'd rather do that because I just really don't want it. I've seen my friends have POTS or whatever you call it, sad. And it freaks me out and somebody had died very close to us and it breaks my heart and a lot of people in this stream have had other people who have died from covid and they are pro-vax they know that it's important and that is good but it's just it's hard because now we have to redevelop the medication for the future

and not just go by whatever. Talk to your doctor. Get your doctor's opinion. This is a not one-size-fits-all situation. Nothing is in medicine. Nothing is. That's what was so shocking. But Kelly's been researching this, and she knows so much about it.

I know. Listen. That's why we love talking to her. She's been attacked by people, and she's been shut down and censored. We get kicked off YouTube every time we mention Ivermectin. Nobody should be censored. If we just mention the word, we get kicked off YouTube, literally. So we'll see if me mentioning it here at the end gets us kicked off.

That's what happens every damn time. We had to start calling it the I-word because if we'd mention it. And by the way, i tweeted the other day all human medication have veterinary application why did this one medicine we start to refer to from its veterinary application uh oh my god you're getting cat lymphoma medicine for your cancer that's for cats or oh my god you're getting uh pepsi my adam was telling me he's giving pepsi to his dog well you're taking dog medicine when you take your pepsi don't you know that all medicine has veterinary application everybody please now stop it stop it oh part of the grossness

strikes back so yeah i love it when you get mad so turns me on honey yeah good well thank you kelly uh but so so so we're gonna wrap it up i bet we've gone you know now i'm sorry that i know there's still more questions on there we'll be back tomorrow i promise and thursday as well at three o'clock we can take more calls then then. And we will have Kelly back soon. She'll come up with the next article and keep us ahead of the curve. Always wonderful to talk to. We have to wait a few weeks, though. Where do you want people to find you, Kelly?

To give us a last little push here, where do you want people to find you? Well, I'm on Getter at KellyVictoryMD. Having been kicked off Twitter, you can find me on Getter at KellyVictoryMD. Having been kicked off Twitter, you can find me on Getter at KellyVictoryMD. And then the website I'm associated with is earlycovidcare.org. I'm there with a rarefied group of folks, Dr. Peter McCullough, Pierre Corey, Harvey Reich, and a group of really great people. If nothing else, you can find there a great compendium. There's a huge library of articles on everything from masks to the vaccines to treatment protocols. There are resources there to find a doctor if you're looking for a physician who knows

the treatment protocols, either for COVID or for vaccine related injuries. There's a lot of resources there. It is not a money-making endeavor. It is purely a resource for folks looking for additional information. So earlycovidcare.org or KellyVictoryMD on Getter. All right, we will leave it at that. Kelly, thank you for joining us.

Thank you all for watching. Thanks for having me. Thank you for that restream and the RumbleRanters. And we will see you guys tomorrow at three o'clock Pacific time. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only.

I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me, call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal,

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