Ask Dr. Drew - Dr. Nicole Saphier: Biden Cancer Care Bombshell & Dr. Jordan Vaughn on SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein’s Brain Inflammation “Relevant To Parkinson’s” – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 489

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

Dr. Jordan Vaughn estimates 15M Americans face long COVID or vaccine injuries, with the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein causing symptoms like brain fog, strokes, and – according to a new paper in the “Brain, Behavior, and Immunity” medical journal – even neuroinflammation in “brain regions relevant to Parkinson’s disease.” Dr. Nicole Saphier, a board-certified radiologist with fellowship training in breast and oncologic imaging, is a NYT best-selling author and host of Wellness Unmasked on iHeartRadio. She authored Panic Attack: Playing Politics with Science in the Fight Against COVID-19 and the children’s book That’s What Family’s For. More at https://x.com/nbsaphierMD and https://nicolesaphiermd.com Dr. Jordan F. Vaughn, a physician and clinical researcher, is a Diplomate of the American Board of Internal Medicine and Founder of The Microvascular Research Foundation. He focuses on microvascular health and vaccine-related injuries. More at https://x.com/jfvaughnmd09 and https://mvresearch.org 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/sponsors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • ACTIVE SKIN REPAIR - Repair skin faster with more of the molecule your body creates naturally! Hypochlorous (HOCl) is produced by white blood cells to support healing – and no sting. Get 20% off at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/skinrepair⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and Susan Pinsky (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/firstladyoflov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠e⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We are going to be visited by Dr. Jordan Vaughan in just a few minutes. He can be followed on X on JF Vaughan, V-A-U-G-H-N-M-D-O-9, hashtag team Klotz. He is the president and founder of the Microvascular Research Foundation. He's an internist like myself. But first, my friend and colleague, Nicole Sapphire, who's a board certified radiologist with advanced fellowship training in breast and oncological imaging. She was a great help to our friend, Kat Timp.

There's the book, Panic Attack, Playing Politics with Science and the Fight Against COVID-19. Also, she's author of a children's book, That's What Families Are For. And amongst other things, we're going to dismantle some of the mystery and confusion around former President Biden's prostate diagnosis. She works in oncology, in and around oncology,

and I'm with the Prostate Cancer Foundation. So we will share what might have gone there with one another and you right up to this. Our laws as it pertains to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for ****. Where the hell do you think I learned that?

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Caleb, maybe you put the lower third on there, it's, there it is, vshredmd.com. I really am very excited about this. I'll tell you more about it at the break. Right now though, I want to bring in a friend and colleague, Nicole Sapphire. You can follow her on XNBSapphire, not like the gem, N-A- excuse me, N-B-S-A-P-H-I-E-R, it's easier.

Now, N-A-N-B-Sapphire-HMD on X and NicoleSAPHMD.com is where you can find out more. As I said, she is an oncologist and she spends her time in the oncology world. And so she's a good person, a perfect person for me to discuss some of the mysteries around President Biden's medical presentation. Nicole, thank you and welcome to the program.

As always, thanks for having me on. So when I started begging to have you back was when you put an X-post up about, a whole thread actually, it was a very well done thread, about screening for prostate cancer, okay? And I noticed that you were, well, we were trying to figure out why the president of the United States

wasn't screened for prostate cancer since 2014, or that all seemed very mysterious. And it is indeed true that the US Preventative Task Force has not approved yearly screening above a certain age. However, what I wanted to talk to you about is, are you aware that is a very controversial thing? Well, hello, I'm an oncologic imager. Of course I disagree with the USPSTF

on just about everything that they put out. And I have a bone to pick with you actually. You know, I heard you and Adam, you talked about me. You said that I came out and said, well, you know, not every 72 year old is being screened for prostate cancer, which by the way is a true statement. That's not all I said though.

I said, but it doesn't pass my sniff tests that President Biden wasn't being screened for prostate cancer because if we looked at his medical records and let's be honest, they weren't the most open with us when it came to the former president's health, whether it was his cognitive health, his physical health, he was still being screened for colon cancer

with colonoscopies. He was getting skin check for skin cancer screening. I mean, prostate cancer is much more common in a man of his age than colon cancer. So to say that he's still getting screening colonoscopies and not a PSA, I don't buy it. So what Adam and I said was not about you, but about his doctor, we said, stupid or liar,

which is it, stupid or liar or both? Because even though the USPF doesn't want us to do excessive screening, the urological community, I'm with the Prosthetic Cancer Foundation, this is Michael Milken's research group, and we sit at sort of the center of the spokes of the international research being done on prostate cancer, and there is no debate

in these communities that we should be screening everybody every year starting at 40 if you have a first degree relative, starting at 50 otherwise, and going indefinitely because of exactly what's happened to President Biden. But in 2019, they said he was being treated for BPH, benign prostatic hyperplasia, which means that he had a prostate test, he had a PSA test, and I doubt it was five years earlier,

because if you're actively being treated for BPH in 2019, how are they monitoring that? Just based on symptoms? I mean, maybe, but come on, let's be honest. He was the vice president, and then he was honest he was the vice president and then he was there some time and then he was the president of course he was getting a PSA test I don't buy it I think that they just were not disclosing things to the public just like we were demanding over and over I mean we had many conversations about this about his cognitive health there's no way that

someone at his age during an annual exam, especially with his symptoms, his obvious symptoms, they weren't doing some sort of cognitive evaluation. There's just no way, no good ethical doctor wouldn't be doing that. Again, stupid or liar, but it's odd that he, that not you, not you, you're on my team. But it's, isn't it, didn't you find it first, you must deal with what I deal with sometimes,

which is high profile people that get special so-called medical care. The fact that he brought his own personal physician in, an osteopath, that can be good or bad, and interpolated that individual between him and the Walter Reed physician team that is tasked with taking care of him. Didn't you find that a bit odd?

And did that ring any of your spidey senses? Yeah, you know, his physician, I think, started with him in 2006 or 2009 when he was vice president. They had a business relationship as well, working on some foundations, so it wasn't purely doctor-patient. I mean, hello, where are the medical ethics here at all? I mean, I can't even accept like a bouquet of flowers

from some of my patients when I find their cancer. But now you're gonna do a foundation and stuff together. So there obviously were some red flags there. I don't really know, I'm not gonna say that he's a bad physician. He may be just keeping HIPAA, keeping things, medical privacy, and it was really up to the president to disclose his medical history,

because the reality is, medically, ethically speaking, I don't think that that physician could be forthcoming with us if the president said he can't. So should we have some modification of our HIPAA sort of expectations for people in those kinds of positions? I mean, that's a great question.

I mean, do presidents actually have to submit their annual exam to us every year? They don't have to, they just do. And of course, I mean, you've read these, I mean, we read them every year because we're asked about to comment on them and they're full of like hyperbole and bombastic claims and it's like, oh, look at how strong our president is.

And I mean, that's a great thing, but when it comes to a medical doctor reviewing a medical chart, I mean, this is not a medical chart by any stretch of the imagination. That's right, that's right. No, that's right. And I think that at least the president of the United States

and maybe every Senator ought to publicly take a mocha, you know, a Montreal cognitive inventory. I really do. I think that, and it should be on, they should just in front, like they sit down and take them and do it publicly and we get to see how they do. And I don't know.

I, and I feel like people like you and me have an obligation to talk about this stuff Much the way we'd have an obligation if you saw somebody encephalopathic sitting down in a pilot seat of a 767 You have to do something. It's not different. It's not different than this whole bullshit about it Oh, would you who are you to say? You shouldn't know. No, no, we should we have to we have to say something The Goldwater rule you're not allowed to comment on a patient unless you've treated them personally. It's like, oh, stop it.

Nonsense, yeah, so exactly, stop it. If you held up your hand with a rash, I could comment on what that rash was. And if you started developing a movement disorder, a neurological movement disorder, I could comment, I could describe that movement disorder. You know, you can say it's very, very simple. Or if the president develops a shuffling,

if the president develops a shuffling gait if the president develops a shuffling gate, like I think we can comment on that too. How dare you? So yeah, I mean, I could say, is it choreoathetotic? Is it Parkinsonian? I can look at it and see it. And by the way, the medical students couldn't identify that.

They'd be counseled. Yeah, right. And so let's start speculating. So you're sort of building the case. So we both agree that people should continue to get PSA screening. And that it was one more little weird detail here though. The way they described, hey, we found a nodule, lo and behold, metastatic disease. It almost made me think, were they doing rectal exams on this poor man and checking his prostate? And that's the old fashioned way

that they were looking for prostate cancer. It made me wonder about that, that they put the nodule forward, or is that just more smoke and mirrors? Well, from what I understand, that they essentially said he had some symptoms. They didn't disclose exactly what they were, but I'm sure we can imagine

that he had some sort of urinary symptoms. Or maybe he had bone pain. We don't really know. They didn't tell us. But it elicited examination of his prostate because he said after he presented with symptoms, he looked at his prostate. What was that? Did they do a PSA? Did they see who was elevated? Did they do a rectal exam? Because they mentioned a nodule. Did they feel it? Did they do a prostate MRI? How did they

diagnose the metastatic disease by the way? I mean, you don't just go from a raised PSA to a prosthetic biopsy to now diagnosing metastatic disease unless there's evidence of, you know, advanced disease. One thing that I found very interesting, you know, Drew, is he had MRIs throughout his tenure of presidency of his spine. At least they say that when they were evaluating his degenerative change of the spine, there was no nerve compression, which leads me to think they're looking at the soft tissues

with an MRI, not just an X-ray. So therefore, if there had been metastatic disease earlier on, at least in the spine, which is a very common location for metastatic disease, we would have seen something as, the last one we heard about was 2024, but he did get diagnosed with COVID in the summer of 2024. And you remember right after that, about a week later,

is when he dropped out of the presidential campaign. Now we know that every time that a president got COVID, they got a CT chest, whether it was indicated or not. So did he get a CT chest during the summer? And maybe they saw something on that examination and that prompted maybe a metastatic disease workup at that time. That's the only thing that has me as a maybe.

Think how bizarre it would be to get a CT chest for a post-COVID workup, but not a PSA for routine health screening. I mean, one is super aggressive and the other is ridiculously like irresponsible, frankly. It's weird. So- Can we just call it what it is?

There's no way he was not. He was being treated for BPH in 2019. He was getting a PSA. And, but the thing is, they said he was being treated for BPH. Maybe he was taking like finasteride or some of the other medications to treat the BPH. I heard that.

Right, so if he was taking finasteride, then maybe he had an artificially low PSA. And so they were still checking them because I know they had to have been. I understand they said they weren't, but I don't know. So maybe it was artificially low. Well, but there's a way to monitor the PSA on finasteride that, again, the president of the freaking United States

would have had that level of monitoring of his PSA on finasteride. It would have been every four months probably just really get some data points. But let's, OK, so you assume he's getting a PSA. That means his diagnosis was considerably earlier. Like this is a tumor that got away from them, right? They either sort of watching a little too,

they weren't being aggressive enough with the tumor or it just got away for some reason. Which suggests to me that he would have been on treatment for metastatic disease far earlier than what we're being led to believe. Like we don't know what he's getting right now, but in it would fit for me. The one thing I was saying was,

man, the last two years he sure did decline. And it declined in a way I see patients decline on androgen deprivation therapy. They get slower, they get their cognition, it fades it fades, they, their, whatever neurobiological movement problems they have get a lot worse. Do you speculate that that's possible was going on as well? Or do you think that's too, too speculative?

I mean, it's certainly speculative. I mean, anything is possible. I mean, you certainly can see, as you know, obviously dizziness, that brain fog. I mean, maybe it did exacerbate some of it. I also think that he, aside from his prostate cancer diagnosis, has a form of dementia and he was rapidly declining. I mean, I think that was just obvious.

So I'm not sure I'm going to put it all together. I think they actually may be separate, but I do agree with you. I think that he had prostate cancer. He probably didn't have it 10 years ago, which I hear some people say, because it was a Gleason 9 that is quite aggressive. I'm sure it moved a bit faster than that, but it certainly didn't pop up in the last couple of months. I'm certain he had it while he was president. And if he wasn't having a PSA test,

but he was still having a colonoscopy, that makes no sense whatsoever. And I think the physician should be questioned as to whether they're practicing medicine appropriately. Oh, yes, I completely agree with you. But back to the, you know, bringing your own physician in, the thing I see all the time, I noticed Hillary Clinton did this too.

And I was looking at some of the things she was treated with back in the day. And I saw, my spidey sense is, I'm seeing care being dictated by the patient. You know what I mean? Where they're on things, you're going, physician wouldn't choose that, but the patients want that. And I bet something like that was going on

in this Biden situation. That doctor was very patronizing and did whatever he wanted, and including don't do a PSA, I don't want you to do that, or who knows? And let's, you said there was a type of dementia, you're on the record with that now. So we know he had neurosurgery, right? He had, what do you have, an aneurysm repair or something?

Aneurysm, I think he had a clipping a while ago. A clipping, but an open clipping, not a core, right? Yeah, no, the clipping is open. So, I mean, my husband being a neurosurgeon, he's endovascular, but clipping is where you remove the skull, you dissect down. I mean, it certainly can cause trauma. Yeah.

Yeah, and in my experience, and he had some bleed too, and in my experience, those patients often get cognitive problems way down the line, much like if they'd had a concussion or something, it's an assault to the brain when they're older oftentimes. Do you think that his dementia has something to do with that injury and gliosis or something post-surgical?

Because it's had an odd kind of time course to it. It's been very weird. I mean, if he has dementia, then avascular dementia is absolutely a possibility. He has chronic atrial fibrillation. He could have thrown micro thrombi, which is called micro ischemic strokes. Certainly having a history of subarachnoid hemorrhage, which prompted the aneurysm repair,

that can cause, as you mentioned, gliosis and other scarring. You can see various levels of dementia with this and not always do you get back to your cognitive state. I mean, look at Senator Federman. I mean, it took him a while to get back after a large ischemic stroke But if you are having chronic micro strokes, you know throughout decades I mean it can certainly lead to dementia like symptoms or dementia itself. I mean vascular dementia is very common So it's possible but also as you know, he's he's 82 at the age of 82

You are at higher risk for all types of dementia I mean, it's just, it is what it is. And that's one of the, you know, we're living much longer thanks to all of our longevity stuff, but we have not tackled the dementia, you know, the dementia side of it. I mean, luckily we're starting to see some supplements and some ways for us to decrease our risk of dementia,

but he certainly wasn't privy to it to the last several decades. Right, that's right. And there's nothing you've said that I don't completely agree with 100%. And you did mention Fetterman, but let's remind ourselves, he was much younger when that happened.

If you're getting microvascular problems in your 80s, it does not reverse, it progresses. And it's nasty too. So if I could put you on the spot, Dr. Sapphire, we're in some sort of, I don't know, oncology rounds or something, or neurology rounds. And I said, you know, I had presented this case to you. How would you put it all, because we're so,

I don't think people realize how, what a paucity of information we have. We're trying to put these pieces together based on what we observe here. And we know something significant has been going on. And by the way, dementia patients continue to decline with any other medical problem. So if he just had prostate cancer that was undiagnosed, that could cause some other more rapid decline

in recent years. But there's so much here, it's so hard to put together. So I'm unfairly asking you to give a synthesis, but do you have, what's your, what's your, because so much of what we do is physician, we're trying to- Yeah, the last time that I did rounds was probably approaching two decades ago,

but that's okay. Let's play this little game. I mean, you have an 82-year-old man with an extensive past medical history. Pertinent positives are chronic cardiovascular disease, including you have the chronic atrial fibrillation, throwing microembolized, you have the aneurysm rupture, followed by the clipping. I mean, all of this could lead to some of his cognitive decline that we have obviously witnessed over the last five to 10 years. But on top of that, you've also seen some physical signs of him just watching him.

I mean, just someone watching him. You see a shuffling, stiffened gait. You see him getting lost a little bit, kind of needing to move. You know, some of this can point to Parkinson's. His doctors or his medical report says it's just from degenerative change, but it certainly makes me question. I, for one, would want to see some brain imaging, maybe a PET scan just to look at some of the areas to evaluate for certain types of

dementia. I'm certain they've done that and they just haven't disclosed it to us. I mean, there's no way a physician certain they've done that and they just haven't disclosed it to us. I mean, there's no way a physician wouldn't have done that. And then on top of it, now he has an advanced prostate cancer diagnosis, very aggressive, metastatic to the bone. While it is hormone sensitive, there are some treatments for it,

but this is most likely exacerbated his cognitive issues that he's already dealing with. You mentioned it, you can have metabolic issues making it worse, the stress, the medications. And also while he was president, he wasn't getting quality sleep. I mean, we know that he was sleeping a lot, but unless you're sleeping seven to nine hours

the same time every single night, I mean, he certainly had disruptions. I think that this probably exacerbated his mental and physical health decline. Yeah, we're describing somebody who is in real trouble, frankly, I do not expect that patient to go more than a couple more years. I mean, at the very minimum in a couple of years,

it's gonna be a not a good situation, I suspect. I think the good news is at this point. Well, I mean, it's devastating. It's not upset when anyone is, you know, having advanced terminal disease, That's unfortunate. Well, I mean, it's devastating. It's not upset when anyone is, you know, having advanced terminal disease. But the good news is that he is now in, should be in retirement.

I mean, I guess he's still doing some speaking events, but this is the time where you should be focusing on your family and spending time and actually relaxing. I mean, the worst place he could have been was a second term in the White House. So he should be grateful that things turned out the way that they did. And one of the things that I'm struggling with right now,

I guess it was Jasmine Crockett, who was like, what do you mean President Biden has neurocognitive problems? Look at President Trump, his are awful. I don't see any evidence of any cognitive dysfunction. In fact, I'm jealous of a man his age functioning at the way he does. I do, people can talk about his, you know,

his character and his hypomania and all this kind of stuff. And go ahead, but that is not a cognitive problem. And would you agree with me? So, yes, first of all, so I actually had a conversation with President Trump last weekend and anybody who's actually been one-to-one conversation with him,

there's unequivocally no doubt that there is no level of cognitive decline there his memory and recall are better than mine he certainly has more energy than I do he remembers names remembers faces he can look at an entire crowd say hello to someone and he can remind you about something you talked about five years ago I mean his memory recall is quite impressive. There is no sign in my opinion of any cognitive decline in President Trump. And in fact, I think we should study what he's been doing because he is doing so well in terms of his cognition.

And I'm happy to see that he is actually losing some weight. I think his cholesterol improved. He's trending in the right way. He's doing everything right as you can, or as we would like to see. He's getting all of his cancer screenings. So I think he is physically and mentally fit. We'll see how he does at his next annual examination.

You know what? He is one of these guys. And by the way, I have no doubt that's accurate because you can see when people have a cognitive problem. And when I look at him, I get pissed because I'm jealous at his level of performance. And another thing I'm jealous of, he's one of these guys can be completely replete

with four hours of sleep. We now have some evidence of that's a genetic subset. Which I do not recommend though, I don't recommend that. No, I know. No, no, no, listen, but that's a genetic subset. I don't know if you've seen that data. They've now isolated a certain genetic subset

that gets complete restative sleep in just four hours. That is not me. I don't know if that's you. They might be your husband, neurosurgeons. I used to see surgeons like that when I was in training. And neurosurgeons especially by the way. But it is a thing and it's a thing, it's a common thing in business too,

where they get their, they're all, they're sort of, I don't know what to call it. I don't mean this pejoratively, I actually just descriptively. They're sort of hypomanic, there's a hypomanic type, and they just get a lot done and they keep doing it and they don't need to sleep. And that, I wonder if that's something to do

with the longevity of the cognitive functioning. Well, one of the things, as you know, for longevity is to continuously switch back and forth between the right and the left brain. And president Trump certainly does that with everything that he is doing. He is constantly being very active. Um, you know, trying not to be patronizing. The only thing I would say to him is sometimes say what you want to say, but then stop. You don't have to keep going in what you're saying.

And maybe that'll just help with some of the criticism because I'm always like, yes, yes. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, back up. Hold on, no need to, just leave it at that. That's really funny. Let's switch gears real quick to the HHS circumstance and the fact that there's some movement towards getting the vaccines

off the childhood schedule and the recommendations for pregnant women. I know the ACOG came out and recommended, or something with the, one of the, I forget which group it was, one of the gynecology or obstetrical groups. And I'm, I still am confused by a lot of this, why we can't leave it to the physician and the doctor

and the patient to make these decisions. Why we have to recommend things where there isn't adequate data to recommend it. But will you hear your thoughts? You know, this is obviously very complicated. And I, the problem is that a lot of physicians don't want to make the decisions. Whether it's because of liability, they don't want to make the decisions, whether it's because of liability,

they don't wanna be sued if they make the wrong decision or whatnot, but a lot of physicians point to these recommendations, so therefore they can point back to that if something goes wrong down the road. I mean, that is what my assumption is there. Dr. Marty McCary, who's a friend and a colleague of mine, he and I, we were in constant communication

all throughout the COVID pandemic. And one of the things that I was extremely concerned about was the COVID vaccine in kids. Obviously I'm a physician, but I'm also a mom of three. And one thing that I was really concerned about was, we saw that the risk in kids, specifically healthy kids was very low, but what we did see were those rare cases of MIS-C

or those inflammatory conditions that happened after the fact from the virus. My concern was if we are now giving them a vaccine, which is a high dose, which is meant to cause an inflammatory reaction, are we going to actually incite MIS-C in a healthy kid who probably wouldn't have even gotten it if they had gotten the infection? And so he and I

went back and forth with this for a while. We even published, co-published article together in the New England Journal of... Yeah, no, Wall Street Journal. Sorry, it's been a long day. Wall Street Journal essentially breaking down the risk of a COVID infection in a kid as well as the vaccine risks in the kid. And from what I saw was the risk was so low from a COVID infection, the risk was still low from the COVID vaccine from the data that Pfizer and Moderna

had given us at that time. You know, it was probably equivocal, but if it's an equivocal risk, why would you risk it at all? Why wouldn't you just, we knew at that point everyone was gonna be infected with the virus. So you might as well just go with that, have that risk. So I was always against vaccinating healthy young kids.

I'm very happy to see at this point that they are removing it from the recommended vaccine schedule. I wanna talk to McCary a little bit more, and actually he's sitting down with me next week, and we're gonna have an in-depth conversation about what led to the actual removal. Was it a reevaluation of the data and showing that it wasn't, you know, it should never

have been on the market to begin with or do they have new data that we are not privy to yet? And so that's what I wanted to see. I think the myocarditis data has been elaborated and that the risk is much greater than we had been led to believe. And the Pfizer... Well, the truth be told, though, I think we had that data years ago. We did have that data. We had the safety signals.

We had Israel that were warning us well before we even approved it in kids. So we had the data. Why did it take so long? Is it just because an administration changed or really did something new come up? And I think I know the answer to that, but I wanna ask him. Oh, I'm dying to know. You have to text me as soon as you find out.

Because I'm dying to know the facts. I mean, I'm trying to figure this all out. I just think we never had the, we certainly never had the bioethical standing for mandates. And the fact that institutions mandated young males to get this thing that harmed them, I cannot get over that. There was one other thing,

oh, though tell us about the book, Panic Attack. Panic Attack. So I wrote this during COVID and I actually started writing it in May of 2020. And one of the things, it's always funny when you do something and then now four years later, it's like, oh, look at that, I said that, I was right.

It's nice when you get proven right on certain things. I have a whole chapter about breaking down the viral genetic structure and how it made the most sense that it was a human modified virus and the most plausible cause of the origin was an accidental leak from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. And so it has just been wonderful to see that play out over the last few years, because I really broke it down

to the granular level on why this made sense then. And then on top of it, I talked about how essentially the mask mandates that all the other stuff that we did from a data perspective, it really didn't move the needle bunch at all and how moving forward, we have to be very wary about these mandates and everything else that comes along with it because we completely botched this pandemic and unfortunately have created a massive environment of mistrust when it comes to public health. I mean, look what's happening right now. You have the secretary of HHS, the commissioner of FDA,

and the NIH director, Dr. Bhattacharya, all coming out and saying, you know, healthy kids don't need this vaccine, but now you have societies going against them. And we have a lot of back and forth, and we do not have a cohesive message anymore when it comes to public health. And I really want to figure out how we can do that.

We have to unify again or else, I mean, it's just going to be detrimental. Yeah. Your subtitle is about the politicizing a virus and that is what you're still seeing here. You know, it's interesting, I saw some X feeds about safe and effective, reducing hospitalization from the vaccine, and I went and looked up the research,

it was Peter Hotez posts this stuff, and it was still data on alpha and delta. It was data on alpha and delta illnesses that do not exist any longer. They are not here, they're not amongst us. And somebody must have raised that issue because then they turned to, well, one day there will be some horrible variant.

Well, okay, well then in the meantime, you're creating boosters for variants that have been gone for six months. I've just had a series of patients take boosters. I think we have NB-181 here in Southern California, pretty sure of it, because we have a sort of two variants flying around, but one is nasty.

And I've had people get the vaccine like within a week or two of catching COVID and not mitigating their disease at all. I mean, it's just ridiculous that we're still giving a vaccine for something that doesn't exist. I don't know, I'm so confused. And by the way-

Go ahead. Sorry, no, go ahead. Please. Well, I was going to say, even the fact that they're, you, they guessed first. I was just going to say that we saw this as early as Delta, that people were getting their boosters

and they were still getting infected three months later. I mean, at that point, what are we doing? We cannot booster into perpetuity and still be doing that when this virus is just continuing to change and mutate and becoming less and less severe, it's enough. And I'm gonna talk Dr. Vaughn in a minute about long COVID and long Vax.

And the thing that kills me is we know the spike protein is the pathogenic part of the virus. We know it's harming people, and yet we continue to push a vaccine that produces that protein. Why don't they go for something that gets a nucleocapsid or a whole virus or something other than the pathogenic mechanism, right?

Well, I do think that that's something that's being studied. I think the FDA at this point wants that, essentially, because people trust that a little bit more, but you're absolutely right. I mean, the spike protein, I mean, we're starting to see studies now that they continue to say, oh, well, you know, the infection causes the strokes

and maybe even some delayed Parkinson's disease. Oh, but by the way, there are some small case reports showing that the spike protein from the vaccine may be leading to this as well. And so they have to really just take a pause and acknowledge what's happening right now. What are these boosters doing?

This continuous, I mean, the good news is most people aren't getting the boosters despite them being recommended. And they do help some people, maybe. They do decrease hospitalizations in a very certain subset of people based on the available data. Maybe, I have a lot of very elderly patients

and they've continued to boost and whatnot. And they asked me, I go, I'm just not sure what we're doing. If you want the booster, please do get it. But I don't know what we're doing. Well, Nicole, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. And we love seeing you on Fox. And do you do gut felt at all? You know, I've done it a few times.

I haven't done it recently. I guess I'm just not funny. I've got to drag you in there so we can gang up on Greg. That's what I'd be looking for. Then it'd be funny. So, where would you like people to go? NicoleSapphire.com or where do we go? So you can find me on X, you can find me on Instagram.

I also just launched a new podcast, Wellness Unmasked with Dr. Nicole Sapphire on iHeartRadio. So I hope you check it out. It's all things health and wellness and kind of debunking things. Great, good for you. Thank you so much for doing that.

Thank you for joining us and I hope to talk to you again soon. Thanks for having me. You got it. And speaking of COVID and long COVID and Vax and long Vax, my friends that work in long COVID tell me on the DL, most of what they're saying is long Vax. So I'll be interested to hear what Dr. Vaughn says. Let me give you his particular before we switch to him.

Dr. Vaughn can be followed on X, J.F. Vaughn, V-A-U G-H-N-M-D-O-NINE on X, also hashtag team Klotz. MVresearch.org, microvascular research, where he is the founder and president of the Microvascular Research Foundation. He's an internist out in Alabama, and he's got a lot of very interesting observations and I want to sort of pick his brain

and see if he's got new insights into this thing we call long COVID or long Vax and what we should be watching out for and further on the conversation of the booster. Before we go to break, Caleb, the VShred MD guys, I am so excited about this. This is, longevity is now something we can do something about.

We can actually actively intervene on people. And vishredmd.com is where you can go. I formulated two new products there that go with the fatty 15 perfectly. One is NR Boost with nicotinamide riboside PQQ. You can find out all about it there. The other is resveratrol with our natural killers being down from the booster and from the virus,

the COVID virus, natural killers are deficient. Resveratrol might raise it. And I put phycetin in that particular booster. So there's a lot of interesting, interesting material for you to learn there, but I am extremely excited that we can do stuff that really does help people live longer, not just by preventing illness, but by addressing the oxidative state of the cells.

You've heard us talk about the cellular fragility syndrome and fatty 15. Now we're gonna talk about NAD and give the cell what it needs to sort of roll back entropy. In other words, the one exception to the fact that entropy is getting more complicated in the universe is life itself. But entropy will always reassert itself. And I'm in the position that oxidative mechanisms,

rear free radicals and oxidative stress are the primary means it does that. And you can fight that back. So check out that website. And we'll go be back with Jordan Vaughn right after this. The wellness company knows that taking charge of your family's health care is a top priority and that's why they're constantly innovating to deliver the products and services to help you be rationally ready.

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Why would I screw myself? What am I, Dr. Drew or anything. Why would I screw myself? What am I, Dr. Drew? I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself.

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I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. I'm gonna screw myself. Dr. Bonham, welcome to the program. Thanks for having me, Dr. So I don't know if you were able to listen to some of the stuff Nicole and I were talking about, but one of the most extraordinary phenomenon that continues in medicine today,

in my opinion, I'll let you sort of elaborate on this, that we continue to push vaccines that create the uncontrolled oftentimes amounts of the pathogenic peptide, the pathogenic protein. What are we doing? Yeah, I mean, that was one of my first introductions. First of all, back in the day, I own a lot of my own clinic, see about 200,000 patients in my database

and I had an assay to look at antibodies. And so one of the first indications that they were not being truthful was that those antibodies were never going down. They actually were doubling every three months, not declining. And then when the product that they offered was the spike protein, this was 10 months into things. And I was, you know, the more that the literature said, it says the spike protein is what is causing all the harms. And to me, that was just crazy. And then actually, in July of 2021,

a paper that was sponsored by the NIH and CDC looking at 250 people who had gotten COVID in March of 2020 actually proved that the spike protein wasn't even the thing that was responsible for broad and durable immunity. It was in cell and actually showed that the nucleoprotein is what elicited CD8 and CD4 T cells to actually have memory.

The nice thing about the nucleoprotein, even though there is some evidence that it is kind of, there is some immunological reactions to it, it is nothing like the spike protein. And given that the mRNA technology was touted as something that they could change on a dime, why the hell didn't they do that? What'd you think? What's your theory? I can't get my head around why not. I love the fact you have the data on the nuclear capsid.

I always wonder why we didn't shift to that and why we aren't shifting now if it's so important. Yeah. I mean, even locally, I was asking some of the professors that taught me when I was in med school, asking them and their answer was, well, we're not vaccine experts. We're just going to trust them. And I was like, well, that's not an answer. You know, you know, in a sense, it was just mind blowing to me that that was, yeah, again, something they didn't really even account for to even see, okay, we've

already got these in the pipeline, we're going to the two again I don't agree with any of that, but then at least booster Lisa Oh, we got a internet problem, I think caleb is that what that is Uh as as usual there's it's alabama. So there's probably some sort of a Electrical storm coming in as often as there actually is So there's probably some sort of a electrical storm coming in as often as Oh, there actually is. Oh, I forgot to mention that before the show. We apparently have like tornadoes that have touched down not far from us.

They're actually probably closer to where he is. There's a tornado. Yeah, a real tornado. A tornado. Let's see if he comes back. It's crazy. All right, we hope so. So but it's really, it's kind of refreshing to hear him say that he's got the data and

he's been concerned about the same thing because this is, you know, so much, although there's another piece of what he just mentioned before he blacked out, so to speak, that here are our peers, our professors, our teachers, our sort of our elders, quite literally, for whatever reason, suddenly becoming non-expert in an area, in this one little area.

Trust me, when they were training us, they led us to believe they were expert in everything. And if they were not expert, they'd ask us to get the data to bring their expertise up to where it should be. I never heard any of my teachers say, not my jam, not my thing, particularly in the field of internal medicine.

So, all right, so let me, while we wait for Dr. Vaughan, let me see if there's anything else. Okay, he's coming back in. All right, you're back. We were worried that tornadoes got you. Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me. The weather around here has been quite crazy, so. Anyway. We got.

All right, so you were saying that, I was commenting when you were away, that I've never, you know, our elders, so to speak, who sat on high and taught us back in the day, they didn't say things like, oh, we lost him again. They didn't say things like, that's not my jam. You know what I mean? They would go, look it up, show me the data,

let's expand our expertise together. At minimum, they would do that. Yeah, I mean, basically, I mean, they would have said, well, good point, let's investigate them. But again, I mean, this was a time when basically everyone deferred to, unfortunately, basically an octogenarian that literally had not seen a patient probably in 50 years.

And that's not necessarily on the ground clinically. They don't really have the evidence to understand the disease process. And to understand the disease process is what allows you to even understand how a vaccine might work, by the way. So bring us into your world now. What are you worried about? What is the Microvascular institute?

So you do a lot of long COVID, I understand. Bring us into your world. Yeah, so basically I started out being somebody that understood that basically COVID was more of a vascular issue, mainly because it attaches the ACE2 receptor, causes vascular inflammation, damages the inside of vessels.

And even when we think about why ventilators were so ineffective, the people that were kind of my mentors out of South Africa, Jaco Lobscher and Risha Pitorius, as well as Doug Kell out of the University of Liverpool, it was pretty obvious by the summer of 2020 that we were dealing with a vascular disease of the lungs, not a typical ARDS or an acute respiratory distress syndrome. And the worst thing we could have done was increase the inter-thoracic pressure and close down more vessels because all we were going to do is actually make it harder for you to oxygenate.

So what we started to do was utilize anticoagulants and other things to calm down the inflammation, but also get rid of the vascular consequences and clotting consequences of the disease and actually had really incredible success. I mean, we're talking like, I would pull people out of the hospital, I wasn't very popular, and put them on home oxygen, put them on anticoagulants, visit them, and we probably did that on about 600 people, okay?

So I started to get a reputation for actually getting people to actually survive. And then what started to happen is a lot of these younger people showed up that never even really knew they had COVID except maybe some of my NCAA athletes might've tested positive during an event. And then all of a sudden they couldn't run anymore or they were stuck in bed.

And I mean, these were 19, 20 year olds that it was pretty obvious something's wrong. And they come to me and say, hey, we heard you can help. And I said, oh, I didn't know that I was telling people I could help. But that meant that I had to learn it. Good enough was that the understanding of the acute process allowed me to understand what long COVID and the vaccine injuries from spike protein were. And so that's really, again, I'm my background, I'm an internist, but my undergrad's in engineering. So I'm kind of a problem solver. And a lot of it was just like,

well, I gotta learn this now, let's try to figure out how to help people. And that's really what clinical medicine is all about. The problem is, is the current medical system in the NIH has beat that out of doctors. And we've turned into like basically grass people that follow protocols and are gonna be replaced by AI tomorrow.

Yeah, that's exactly right. I agree with you wholeheartedly that the thinking, the scientific method, it's all gone. But I also agree that I called it early and often that this was an endothelitis. It was in the endothelial reaction, sometimes the clotting systems would get activated because of the injury to the endothelium and off we went.

And sometimes those clots were big. Yeah, and not just that, the unique thing, and that's what Risha Batorius' work out of Stelling Bosch in South Africa proved, was that the S1 subunit, the same one that we can talk about in this paper related to Parkinson's, actually is able to elicit fibrinogen to turn into fibrin without thrombin. And

I know that sounds like a fancy thing, but basically itself can actually make a clot form. And that we've really never seen anything quite like that before. And that's another reason why we see a lot of young people with strokes in areas of the brain that aren't typical. And one of the reasons is because the concept of what we call micro thrombosis in situ. And that's a fancy word for saying, the clot didn't come from somewhere, it formed right there in the small vessel. And that's why you're having the issue

because you just got a vaccine or you just had COVID. Right, so I've seen some of that and I think we all have. And of course it's under reported and VAERS doesn't acknowledge it. But the question always I'm having trouble ascertaining is it post COVID? Because everybody's had COVID and the vaccine. So I'm having trouble parsing which I'm looking at.

But let's just talk about the microvascular injury and the cerebrovascular, the stroke. What do you think that is? Do you think it's both? Do you think it's either one more than the other? I will say in my subset, again, I've seen about 4,000 plus people. And, you know, I probably 80% of them are vaccinated

and COVID obviously. I have about 20%. Again, I'm in Alabama. So 20% in Alabama is, you know, there are people that have never had the vaccine that have long COVID because again, the spike protein is a pathogen. But in my case, there are also plenty of people that have never had the vaccine that have long COVID, because again, the spike protein is a pathogen. But in my case, there are also plenty of people that I have,

probably maybe a couple hundred, that still don't have nucleocapsid and they have injury. Does that make sense? So it's truly nucleocapsid antibodies. So basically the vaccine is their injury. Right, so let me explain to people. So there's two easy antibodies to measure when people get COVID,

which is the nucleocapsid protein versus, the antibody versus that and the antibody versus spike. And if you've had COVID, you should have both. If you had the vaccine, there's no nucleocapsid, so you only have the spike protein antibody. Yeah, so interesting. I mean, I think I agree with you so thoroughly on what you're seeing.

What do we do about it? And by the way, let me, before we get to that, were you using, I mean, what anticoagulants were you using? Was it necessary to use coumadin? Was it a relative or something? Yeah, the interesting thing that Jacques Lopche saw, he's a cardiac intensivist in South Africa,

during the acute disease was that this fibrin was resistant to being broken down, so resistant to fibrinolysis. So not only does the spike protein make fibrin, it makes it in a way that is abnormal. And so it's amyloid. That's why I'm able to see it under the microscope when I stain it for a dioflavin T. And, you know, I kind of look at it from a simple perspective, you know, normal fibrin, we want the body to make it, we need to clot when we have kind of an area that needs to be

stopped from bleeding, but that fibrin kind of forms like spaghetti that just came out of the colander that you can pull apart. But instead, the fibrin that forms in reaction to the S1 subunit of the spike protein is kind of like burnt spaghetti casserole that you have to get a brilopat to get off the casserole dish. And a lot of these people, the issues are related to their ability to fibrinolyse or their ability to break it down. So some

of these people don't even have, a lot of my patients do have underlying thrombophilic or clotting disorders that they never knew about and the vaccine or COVID elicited it. But some of them don't have that. Instead, they have fibrinolytic disorders. Their ability to break down fibrin is compromised. And that is a kind of a, it's actually fairly common in Anglo-European ancestry. One of the things that we look for is called

plasminogen activator inhibitor, which is basically something that tells the body, hey, stop breaking this down. And COVID causes you to overexpress it. The spike protein does too. And that tells the body, hey, stop breaking this down. And COVID causes you to overexpress it. The spike protein does too. And that makes your body, hey, you've got this clot here, your body should break it down. It's already harder for your body to break it down.

And we're gonna give it a signal that says, don't do it. Yeah, I remember the plasminogen activator inhibitor story coming out relatively early and being actively suppressed. Because I haven't heard much about it in a long time. And I remember reading about it and thinking, oh, that's interesting. That gives us something to target and then gone. It doesn't exist anymore.

Wow, interesting. So you have now, you're back with that theory. What do you use? So a lot of what we use are things that actually kind of tilt the balance toward fibrinolysis. So we inhibit the production or repair of fibrin So basically dual anti platelets are a lot of times what we use so that Jocko was original kind of theory was triple Anacoa basically triple therapy is what we would have called it

But it's basically attacking not only the platelets, but also inhibiting the fibrin production then allow why would that? Why would the platelet adhesion the fibrin production, then allowing the body to- Wait, wait, why would the platelet adhesion affect fibrin activation? Sure, the spike protein also irreversibly activates platelets, okay? So you've got the nasty spaghetti soup that not only the building blocks of the clot, like the platelets, but also the mortar is sticky as heck.

Yeah, and I know Dr. McCullough is very hot on using natokinase, and I think he thinks he's going at a similar mechanism. Do you feel out where that works? Yeah, so natokinase is a natural fibrinolytic, so it's basically kind of speeding up the Pacmans to break it down. The only downside to that, and that's what we have found

in looking at the proteomics of the fibrin, is that it is full of nasty crap. And so sometimes when you take that, you're going to actually elicit an inflammatory response. So a lot of what we do is put people on things that kind of naturally help you fibrinolize and then actually calm down the reaction with things like antihistamines

and other mast cell stabilizing agents and then kind of pursue a fibrinolytics. Does that make sense? What do you, what specifically you're referring, you're talking about the antiplatelet stuff you mentioned, is that what you're talking about? Yeah, so again, aspirin, eloquence, those kind of things. I also use a lot of what we call Pintoxyphiline,

which is a rheological agent that helps regulate blood cells change. It's an old one. An old school, yeah, a lot of what we call Pintoxifilene, which is a rheological agent that helps red blood cells change. It's an old one. An old school, yeah. A lot of the stuff we're using, that's the beauty of actually using your brain. I don't know if you know this, but we used to use Pintoxilene for peripheral vascular disease

because the theory was that it changed the, yeah, it changed the way red cells move through capillaries, essentially. 100%. That's so funny. Oh my God, plus en change. You know, what's old is new again. So bring me into, again,

that's your, we're kind of getting a view of your world. I want to go back to what do we need to do? We're talking about various therapeutics, it gets a little complicated. I think people would have to see you to be able to get these things. I mean, if somebody, what do we do? What's, I mean, do we stop the vaccines?

Do we, everybody with long COVID, we put them on, tell me what you think. Yeah, to me, there's no question that the vaccine has, has no use in today's world. Even then, as they update it for the fall, first of all, even if it didn't have negative and deadly consequences, it's not going to be effective by the time they roll it out anyway, just because of the mutation of the virus. So it's literally the craziest thing I've ever seen.

It's like literally playing whack-a-mole and you're always going to be behind. And so there is no benefit from that standpoint. The other thing that I do is I really try to improve the immune system because one of the things we found is the ability to actually fight and down-regulate the abnormal immune reaction is going to be based on your overall health. And so a lot of things like vitamin D, you know, zinc, all these things that are probably deficient in our diets anyway, plus we sit inside and don't get enough sun. I mean, our bodies are kind of ready for an attack. And so a lot of that

is just basically good health. And then the last thing is I do use a lot of natto kinase. I use like things like pycnogenol, which is French maritime tree bark. I use things like diosmin, which is a flavonoid, quercetin. There's a lot of things that are actually very good for the vessels. Good anyway. I mean, I take them every day just as a person. The more I read about this stuff, the bigger my supplement pile actually gets when I take in the morning. Right. Me too.

It's fascinating how little we're taught about that in med school and then how effective a lot of this stuff is. And it's not ever going to be studied to where it's, you know, this evident, you know, this randomized control, you know, placebo controlled trial. But there's pretty good evidence on observational studies, especially in populations that take this like natakinesis is a big thing that Japanese take because it's in their diet. And then you look at their cardiovascular incidences and that you actually, I mean, there's a couple studies that compare it to statins and it actually has better data in those studies

at helping with the intimal thickness of the carotid artery. You mentioned immune function. I've been increasingly concerned about what appears to be some evidence of a dropout on natural killer function. And natural killer cells are sort of our sweep up for cancers that break through. And I'm convinced that resveratrol is gonna be useful in helping enhance natural killer function.

So you might wanna look at that data too. I'm persuaded. Yeah, no, the other thing is just T cell exhaustion. I think the immune, again, I go back to kind of the understanding of unfortunately the way vaccinologists look at vaccines is through antibodies. But you know, that's kind of 1970s and 80s science. The immune system is immensely complex, more complex than we had ever imagined. And the honest truth is the more I read about it

and the more I understand, the less I think I know about the whole thing. That's a good sign. That's what we call expertise. It's the opposite of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Dunning-Kruger is people that know a little think they know a lot. People that know a lot think they know a little, essentially.

It's sort of the source of the imposter effect too. But let me just ask a philosophical question because I really, I feel like my perception of the disease and the vaccines is very similar to yours. What happened to us? What happened to our profession? I mean, we probably are separated by 10 or 20 years in terms of our training, but I still,

just the little vignette you told about your elders sort of hunting when asked about vaccines, something has happened to us, and I can't make sense of it. My dad was a doctor, my uncle's a doctor, and there's physicians in my family. I was deeply committed to this profession. I thought what we were doing was such an important job.

And as you said, it's essentially being converted to an AI sort of algorithm. Is that what has happened to us? Is it the fact that everyone's an employee now or is the fact that no one's being trained in science? I mean, what are all the above, I guess? Yeah, I mean, I definitely think, yeah, I mean, obviously one of the unique things

and the ability for me to actually take care of people was I own my own clinics, I own my own pharmacy, I own my own labs, I employed about 200 people. And so, you know, I don't need a new sports car, I can buy some expensive microscope that somebody in South Africa says I need to do and she can train me to use it over Zoom because they have big, you know, videos in the microscopes now. So that independence needs to be back because unless the doctor's independent, he really can't take good care of you personal because if he's not independent then there's always going to be a secondary pressure behind him dictating what is best for you. And even as you

were talking before on Nicole Sapphire, I'm not a fan of public health. If it replaces personal, basically, patient physician relationships, because public health can inform a physician, but it should never replace the, you know, basically what is best for the patient in front of you. And then lastly, I think medicine, the coolest thing about it and what separates it from other sciences is because we're not just taking care of the material person, we're taking care of a spiritual being as well. And so that is what gives us uniqueness as physicians.

And that's why we call it a practice or an art of medicine because we're not lab rats we're taking care of. We're blessed with the ability to actually care for humans as they exist. And unfortunately, that professionalism that we need to maintain our autonomy and to put the patient first has also been just sort of washed free of what, of what we're doing here, which is especially in the important cognitive disciplines. I just, I can't believe what has happened.

One thing I'm trying to do with RFK is actually, I think within HHS, again, this probably takes some legislation, but there needs to be a department, I named it RISE, which is Resources for Independent and Self-Employed Physicians, but is basically giving back the independent physician ecosystem. And as an environmentalist, he might understand this, is you get rid of that kind of balance of what makes physicians, physicians. If you destroy that ecosystem of independent physicians, that you're going to have this totalitarian government and basically academic medical center controlled medicine.

And you saw it the last five years. But I think they, it's, first of all, I agree with you on public health, that their job is to advise physicians, CDC advise physicians not to mandate from on high. That's disgusting. Never meant to be like that. But the fact that everything's being centralized

and physicians are being disempowered, I think it's part of the plan. I think they want physician extenders to be all the patients see. It's about efficiency and doing the minimum to make sure people aren't hurt. And that's about it, but actually doing high quality, careful caretaking that is, I don't know,

maybe the HHS will bring it back. Count me in if that department gets actualized. Yeah. The other thing I think is when we talk about vaccine injury or long COVID, we're talking about a complex multi-system disease. And the reality is our system is not set up to take care of that. It is set up to take care of acute single system disease processes.

And that is why we are failing as a medical system to even address chronic disease to begin with. I mean, you could go on with diabetes and other things that are also multi-systems. But in this specific, good luck going to an academic medical center. You'll probably, a lot of my patients have seen a hundred doctors plus, spent a hundred thousand dollars plus on just trying to even get an answer. And, you know, again, the answer is not as complex, especially if you have your blinders off to see the, the, the pathogen itself and understand the pathogen can affect every organ system.

Where were you trained as an engineer? University of Alabama. And roll tide. And so where do people go if they want to sort of be evaluated by you or your team? Yeah, so my company is called MedHelp, so MedHelpClinics.com. But they can also go to the Microvascular Research Foundation. A lot of what we founded that for was getting more research and understanding the damage to the vessels. And the cool thing is we're actually able to utilize the data and actually have had an incredible success.

I mean, I've had a Navy SEAL that came home in a wheelchair to Birmingham, who's back carrying a 50 pound back going 22 miles without an issue. I mean, it is, I think, it is important to understand the disease. But the other thing is just seeing people and talking to them actually elicits new ideas and actually helps me, you know, drive hypotheses

for additional things. Some of the things that I learned and actually do now drive hypotheses for additional things. Some of the things that I learned and actually do now, I didn't do two years ago because I didn't have enough patients to understand what was going on. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. I get it. Well, and were you a chemical engineer? I I'm really, yeah.

Much. Yeah. My father's a physician and he basically said, what was the best thing he did for education? And he said, the best thing I did for medical school was go to engineering school. So when I did undergrad, I knew I wanted to go to medicine, but he said, Jordan,

engineering school taught me how to problem solve medicine. Medical school just taught me how to regurgitate. Well, right. And I had some very classical biochemical training and biology training, and it was all oriented towards problem solving and thinking and careful analysis and analytical thought and derivation of the scientific method.

And so I'm increasingly interested in what people's undergraduate education was because I think it is important. And I think, again, we have sort of nominalized that and that's a big, big mistake. Well Jordan, thank you so much again. Where do they go if they want to see your stuff? Medhelp.com, is that what the website is?

Medhelpclinics.com. Medhelpclinics.com. And can you do work outside of the state of Alabama? Are you distributed around? I can, and a good bit of people I see initially in person, and then we're able to take care of them afterwards. A lot of it has to do with also, some of the unique blood work we're able to do

and look at their blood under the microscope and actually analyze and find and look for amyloid fibrin aggregates. There's probably only two places in the country that do that. I'm crazy enough to have gotten the microscope to do it. But it's helpful because I think it gives us the ability to diagnose and actually say this is your issue.

And it also gives us the ability to follow how treatment actually helps. So that's one of the other problems along with the vaccine injury is, basically they just look at you. Yeah, two last things. Do you share your notes with Dr. Peter McCullough ever? As if not, you guys should be.

Dr. Peter, actually testifying with him last week, he's a good friend of mine, and actually even I wouldn't say it, but I'm pretty sure I got him on the natokinase before he was the natokinase man, but anyway. Well, he certainly got him on the, I've heard him, he and I've had long conversations about the clotting activation.

And I've heard a very similar assessment to what you presented today. And then my other question, oh crap, the aging brain. Oh, it's gonna, I'm gonna say goodbye to you and then I'm gonna remember it, it's gonna drive, I'm going to say goodbye to you. And then I'm going to, it's going to, I'm going to remember it. It's going to drive me out of my mind.

Caleb, do you have any questions? Or you've heard me talk to a lot of people about this topic. And this is kind of clarifying. Yeah, go ahead. Dr. Vaughn, I was reading stuff. I think that you had posted about brain fog and stuff. I, I, there, we had a previous doctor who was on here before that was talking about a low dose of,

I believe it was lithium orotate was helpful for brain fog. And then we had Dr. Peter McCullough on here who also said low dose like you know nicotine pouches also seemed like it was helpful with brain fog. Have you seen any sort of signs of that working or any help? Yeah I have. And I'll tell you both of those seem to have help. The unique aspect that I look at is a lot of things that I want to do is just get more blood flow to your brain.

I think one of the reasons, you know, you have a headache when there's vascular issues to the meninges or covering of your brain. The one thing that your brain is telling you when it's not getting good vascular supplies is, is brain fog. It doesn't really have like a pain signal. It itself is the sense it's the communicating center. It doesn't really have like a pain signal. It itself is the sense, it's the communicating center. It doesn't have the sensors. And so a lot of people, I kind of remind them that brain fog is a signal that your brain's not happy. And especially when we talk about vascular supply, one of the things we're finding is a lot of microvascular dysfunction and also venous return. So the other thing that we've kind of realized is what it damages, especially in these young athletes, is the veins. A lot of people don't even care about the veins.

The veins actually carry about 75% of your blood volume, but it's not the good blood volume. It is basically the sewage. It's coagulable, it's low oxygen, it's inflammatory. And if you don't actually get the ability to fill your right heart back with blood, you're going to have cardiac output dysfunction, which ultimately leads to something called hypotaponic cerebral hypoperfusion, which is a fancy word for saying the vessels of the brain actually start constricting and limiting blood flow.

Let me share with you one quick anecdote that to add to your under knowledge. I had terrible lung, I had really a nasty Delta episode and I had bad long COVID. I was essentially brought out of COVID by monoclonal antibodies which worked magnificently for me. But I was left with long COVID and a terrible ringing in my ear, one ear,

and I had bad brain fog. But I had this weird instinct that working on language or music would help clear the fog. And we were gonna go to Greece that summer so I started working on learning Greece and it cleared rapidly. It was very odd. I was languishing and then it just,

I could just feel it clearing. So I'm, and we know that regional blood flow is affected by how we use our brain. There's also some proteonomic stuff out there that shows that viral injury tends to occur in the temporal parietal areas, which is exactly where language is used. So isn't that interesting that I had that feeling about it

and it worked? Yeah, and the concept to me even predates COVID is called chronic cerebrovascular insufficiency. But even things like Parkinson's and MS, the areas of the brain that are actually damaged usually are in what we call vascular interfaces. And so the fact that those areas are, first of all, high demand for blood flow,

but when the blood flow is impacted, you get bad consequences. So that's- I recommend, what's that credit? That's what you're saying. So that's why some people may be finding anecd, you know, anecdotal improvement with their brain fog is it's all about the blood flow and the brain and those things might have that,

it's basically a side effect of nicotine or the, what is it, the lithium orotate. Nicotine restores dopaminergic things, but actually nicotine is weirdly enough metabolic in terms of how it acts. It actually kind of forces your body to use key fatty acids and a lot of other things which are good for brain health.

So the cool thing is that's the other kind of point I always like to say. I don't understand when doctors started just kind of limiting molecules from only what the FDA tells them those molecules can do. The reality is molecules actually act on mammalian cells. And just because it's bactericidal, just because it's dopaminergic, doesn't limit its ability to do a million other things. And in fact, most of those things

are what we call side effects, typically, but sometimes those side effects are beneficial. And that's how Viagra came from. And the fact that people have this weird phobia of nicotine because of cigarettes this weird phobia of nicotine because of cigarettes, cigarettes are harmful, nicotine is not. And I've seen cardiologists freak out

about patients using nicotine. It's like, stop it, it's fine. It's, yeah, you can cause an arrhythmia, you really go nuts with it, but a little bit of nicotine, it's actually good. It's an appetite suppressant, as you mentioned, it's good for brain health. So I'm all about So I'm a caffeine advocate

and I'm a sort of a mild nicotine advocate. Nicotine and caffeine together are actually synergistic. So. Interesting. All right, listen, we've got to let you go. I'm sure there's more to be revealed as we move along. Oh, last thing. I remember the last thing

while I was dealing with my own brain fog. What do you make of that finding by Dr. Patterson about the persistent spike in the non-classical monocytes that get into the brain and don't go through their normal cycle of apoptosis? Yeah, I think the interesting thing about the spike is its ability to really evade good defense mechanisms. I mean, actually, if you, one of my friends, Dr. Redfield, he used to be head of the CDC,

would tell me a lot about how they were designing this basically to not elicit innate immune response and actually have it, the ability to hide and not have good immunogenicity. So the reality is that is concerning. And that's probably why even when we look at blood tests looking for spike, they're kind of going to underestimate or even tell you it's not present, but it's actually hiding in a similar way that even an HIV virus would. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does. And you just also dropped that Redfield bomb. How come he doesn't say that publicly? That he, in there is an admission that it's a manufactured virus and that it's manufactured in a certain way and that maybe we have something to do with it. There are three things in fact,

it pushed into what you just said there. Yeah, if you read what he's talked about since, he will tell you that it is this way. The other thing that I thought was very interesting when I was just becoming friends with him over time is he's been on the right side of a lot of medical issues historically, whether it was gain of function research or HIV treatment or even things in the 80s and 90s. And I was kind of interested to say, Dr. Redfield, because again, I like to learn from people,

how did you, how are you on the right side of things that seem to be everybody was going the opposite way? And he said, Jordan, I never stopped seeing patients at least two half days a week. And again, he says, again, you can't be in medicine if you're not practicing clinical medicine and actually taking care of people. And so, you know, even when I talked to him about when did he stop giving the mRNA injection?

He said, when I started to see people injured by it, my own patients. Not, yeah, and not only, right, I did get that out of him when I talked to him. And, but that holistic experience of being in the presence of the patient and taking that in is very different than reading data about somebody

or reading literature or medical records, very, very different. And yes, we all have to keep doing that. Also, we interact with our peers, our subspecialty peers, and we hear sort of our ears to the ground. And we hear about things when we try to help our patients, we have to interact with our peers and we hear what some of the latest things are that way.

So yes, yes, yes, and yes. Well, then thank you so much. Yep, last thing. Just the way social media has allowed doctors to interface and we don't have it all directed down through the medical journals is actually exposing a lot of the corruption I think and I think that's something we need to continue to allow to happen. I think I'm still confused by so much that when people when people are so irrational certitude is the enemy rational uncertainty is what we should all

maintain a verisimilitude and sort of, when I see people so certain on the other side, I'm like, am I missing something? I don't get it. But we'll keep our ear to the ground. We'll keep learning. We'll keep asking questions. Dr. Vaughn, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me.

Appreciate it. That's MedHelpClinics.com for him. And I want to remind you one last time, because I'm very excited about these products. These V-Shred MD products, the two, the NR Boost and the Centosync, I take them every day, I make Susan take them every day,

I take them with my Fatty 15, these are the longevity. And what I like amongst other things about these products is there's not a bunch of junk in there, there are two in each. The two things that I put in these two, these two very carefully sourced ingredients the two molecules only two because they work I don't throw

you when you look at the side of supplement bodies you there are 35 things in there that means nothing works two things both work very important check it out if you're interested I'm super excited about these products because we can finally do something about lengthening life and lengthening wellbeing rather than just dealing with illness and dealing with the things that shorten life. So coming up, Caleb, what do we got on the horizon?

Dr. Simone Gold on the forward, and we're going to talk a little Epstein on the fifth. To be determined on the sixth, I guess Mark Cianchisi on the 11th. Salty Cracker coming back, Dr. Rebakey coming in here to talk about her new data and taking your suggestions also at contact.drdu.com. Sorry, let me look at the, oh, my restream disconnected.

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing your guys work there. Let me see what you guys are thinking. Again, I still don't have, Kayla, maybe you'll send me the cable. It's long enough for this computer. A literal, just an extension cord. That's not even an extension cord, just a longer UBC to UBC,

is essentially what it is. Oh, long USB, yeah, we'll get that. Yeah, USB-C to USB-C. Thank you guys, thank you Dexter's Lure Lab. Thank you Miss, thank you Dexter's Lure Lab. Thank you Miss Mouse. Miss Mouse WC. Let me look over on the rant, see if there's anything you guys are talking about

over there. Yes, we should be paying attention to the body response. I thought Jordan Vaughn was very inspiring, frankly. You reminded me of talking to Peter McCullough. And Nicole too. Nicole is always an inspiring person and she is clear headed and beyond expert. She speaks from when she,

she speaks from a position of real authority and she doesn't just limit her area of expertise to her narrow area in oncology. She pays attention to everything else that's going on in medicine. So check out her High Heart Radio show. And I'm looking at your restreams. I don't think there's anything else going on there

for you guys. Okay, that'll be that. Then we'll see you this Thursday. We'll see you on Tuesday at two o'clock, Caleb. Is that correct? Eastern time? I'm sorry, Pacific time? Two o'clock Pacific. And we're still in Eastern time? I'm sorry, Pacific time? Two o'clock Pacific.

And we're still in town. Oh no, no, next Tuesday is off. Next Tuesday is off because we are in Austin, Texas for a couple of days. The fourth is a Wednesday. We'll be back on the fourth with Simone Gold. And also, yeah, and then we have the six with the V Shred conversation.

So yes, please pay attention. We are gone on Tuesday. We appreciate your support and we'll see you on June 4th, two o'clock Pacific time. And don't at least check out that V Shred MD website and you can learn about this stuff. See if you're inclined. See you then on next Wednesday.

Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute then on next Wednesday. personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me, call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255.

You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at DrDoo.com slash help.