Ask Dr. Drew - Dr. Peter McCullough: New Boss Of ACIP Vaccine Committee Was FIRED By Practice For Supporting RFK & Questioning COVID Response w/ Dr. Kirk Milhoan & Jeffrey A. Tucker – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 575

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

After decades of saving lives, retired Air Force Colonel Dr. Kirk Milhoan was fired from his pediatric cardiology practice after being named chair of the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP). The dismissal followed social media pressure protesting his support of HHS Secretary Robert F Kennedy Jr. and his questioning of many childhood vaccine policies. Dr. Milhoan was only reinstated after significant public backlash. His wife, anesthesiologist Dr. Kim Milhoan, wrote “The irony is they are trying to destroy the career of someone who was on their side, but willing to re-examine the evidence.” Dr. Peter McCullough is a cardiologist, internist, and epidemiologist, serving as Chief Scientific Officer of The Wellness Company. He co-authored “Vaccines: Mythology, Ideology, and Reality” and “The Courage to Face COVID-19.” Follow at https://x.com/P_McCulloughMD Dr. Kirk Milhoan is a pediatric cardiologist and Chair of the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. He was fired by his cardiology office – and later reinstated after public backlash – following his appointment to lead ACIP. Follow at https://x.com/KMilhoanMDPhD Jeffrey Tucker is Founder and President of the Brownstone Institute. He is also Senior Economics Columnist for Epoch Times, author of 10 books, including Liberty or Lockdown. Follow him at https://x.com/jeffreyatucker and https://brownstone.org/ 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 • AUGUSTA PRECIOUS METALS – Thousands of Americans are moving portions of their retirement into physical gold & silver. Learn more in this 3-minute report from our friends at Augusta Precious Metals: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/gold⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or text DREW to 35052 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • VSHREDMD – Formulated by Dr. Drew: The Science of Cellular Health + World-Class Training Programs, Premium Content, and 1-1 Training with Certified V Shred Coaches! More at https://drdrew.com/vshredmd • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and Susan Pinsky (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/firstladyoflov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠e⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer & Booking • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Hosted By • Dr. Drew Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/drdrew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A lot of my peers coming in today to have a conversation about things like vaccine and changes in the vaccine committee. We have Dr. Peter McCullough coming in, talk about flu hysteria and some success with nasal sprays. I'll produce the viral transmission. Dr. Kirk Milhoun, he is the new member of the ASIP committee, and he has a report, a shocking report from the ground there on what it's like, what it's actually like to get vaccines approved. And then finally, Jeffrey Tucker from Brownstone Group comes in to give us a little talk about fixing the health care system and the insurance mess and also giving some his insights into how things have changed in the last 18 months or so. So stay with us. We've got a lot to talk about. Be right back after this.

Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopaths start this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for a I say, where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people.

I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals, but just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time, educate adolescents, and to prevent, and to treat. Do you have trouble? You can't stop and you want to help stop it. I can help. I got a lot to say.

I got a lot more to say. All right, first up, let's get my friend and colleague, Dr. Pete McCulley. You can find him on XP underscore McCullough, M.D. C-U-L-L-U-G-H. Also, he, of course, is with us at the T-W-C, the focal points.com, peter McCullough-M-D.com. The courage to face COVID-19.

Peter has been so much going on this year. My God, it's almost, it's hallucinating to try to keep all the changes, isn't it? So there's your book. So first, let's talk a little bit about a T-W-C product that you've been advocating for, almost as long, I think as long as I've known you, which is the nasal lavage. I know I haven't had you speak yet, but I've been bugging Susan.

We had COVID in our household and I said, just do the nasal lavage. This is better than any masking or anything else you can do. It's better than six feet distancing. This works. You know, so true. Dr. Drew, thanks for having me on the program. Happy New Year to you and Susan. Happy New Year.

The randomized trials came in over the course of the pandemic. And I think the capstone was called the immune defense trial. And it was a large 15,000 patient prospective double-blind randomized multi-arm trial published in Lancet, showing that even on-demand use of nasal sprays and gargles could reduce the rates of getting common viral illnesses. Now, we get to COVID. There are really high-quality studies. and we get into certain solutions from hypotonic saline to dilute palvodon iodine to xylotol-based products, they all work.

And when you do two to four squirts, up the nose, sniff it back, spit it out, blow it out twice a day, and then do a throat spray or gargle twice a day, it prevents these infections. And explain to them why, because I don't people get how viruses get in, or at least these respiratory viruses. That's an important point. So we are breathing in viruses all the time. And I guarantee when you go on a plane, you have actually brought a virus into your body, for sure. It lands in the hair cells in the nose, actually the front part of the nose.

And the virus needs a nice, stable environment for the replication. And when it replicates for about seven days, you never feel it. It's on the hair cells. and the viruses are just building up in terms of their quantity and their colonization of the nose, getting ready to overwhelm the nose. And then the lymphatic strain back to the throat. And after you about seven days, you start to get a sore throat. But when you get a sore throat, you're seven days behind on what you could have done,

which was to disrupt this population of virions from becoming so large that they physically cause a cause, cold or influenza, RSV or COVID. So you're knocking it down a little or moderately so. So your body's own mucosal immune system can fight it off. And it's a brilliant strategy. Now that we've had this large UK trial, you know, proof of concept come in, it clearly works. I've interviewed some people for my show, Dr. Drew. They haven't gotten a viral illness in many years, in one case, 20 years.

Yeah. Yeah. And our product for TWC sold out in like no time. So Susan, we got to get that stuff. And of course, you know, I'm just husband. We need more spike with support too because my daughter's fiancé has. We'll talk about that a second. But you'll listen to Dr. McCullough, right, Susan?

You heard the explanation there. Okay. Because I got it to spray once last night. I'm learning what lymph nodes are recently. So, you know, you have to go. But Susan. You and Drew have been so sick, so much since I've known you, you have to both, just when you brush and flush your teeth twice a day, do the nasal spray and do a 30 second gargle.

I like to use, I love the Sprite product. How dare you? I don't get sick. He gets sick. I don't get sick, Dr. McCullough. I am not as sick as he is. No, Susan, you were sick the last time we had our retreat. You were sick.

Two retreats will grow. Now that was the time before. I got COVID. Okay. Okay. The bottom line is to get on this program, and it's miserable to be sick. If everyone did this, instead of wearing masks or social distancing, this is what's called oral and nasal hygiene, and it works.

Yeah, yeah. I did it yesterday. He made me do it. Let's talk a little bit about food pyramid. The South Park boys, Cartman himself in 2014 said, it's upside down. It just needs to be put right side up, the food pyramid. And he essentially had it. Cartman had it essentially 11 years ago.

And although it's a little bit altered, to be fair. But that was the, like, that's the old pyramid there, is the new pyramid. And fats and red meats and things are at the top. But what I want to ask you is the cardiological community has been very rigid about saturated fats. To the point where I don't understand why they're not, I wonder if it's the the fact that they're only dealing with the population with disease. They're really dealing with people with heart disease, which is a disease state. And I can understand in a disease state, there may be some different recommendations. Is that what the bias is from?

No, it really, it's a deep, deep literature about animal saturated fats, including feeding studies and CRC studies. I agree. Where it's clear, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the saturated fats from animals in butter, milk, and in those steaks, and it directly stimulates the liver to produce cholesterol. I mean, it's a straight line relationship. So with this food pyramid, you know, it's not what I would have approved because the key concept here is the protein is all the same. The peptides are the same. So the protein in a plank of salmon is the same protein that's in a Texas steak. What's the difference?

It's the package. The package in the salmon is essential, healthy omega-3 fatty acids. The package in the steak is not essential. And in my view, harmful animal saturated fat. So what a cardiologist would say, listen, we love the new food pyramid. Just get the steak, the butter, the whole milk, and the big turkey breast out of there and replace it with seafood. Are you aware that there is a very different profile to odd chain saturated fatty acids than even chain saturated fatty acids? And so we're not yet incorporated all that into this pyramid, it seems to me.

Right. So, I mean, some have gone back. And these people tend to be on the keto carnivore. sort of the spectrum. And they've said, wait a minute, there's a reanalysis going back to Ansel Keys and none of the feeding studies are right, none of the epidemiologic studies are right. And we have a green light now to consume animal fats. And they've been reframed.

FDA Commissioner Macri was saying, well, they're healthy fats. You know, I'm not convinced. I've looked at the literature trying to look at the Minnesota Heart Study and the reanalysis of it. I think it's more what's called confirmation bias. who are on the keto-conrypha diet, they want to eat sticks of butter. They really do. And I can tell you, as a rational doctor and a cardiologist, my advice is don't eat sticks of butter. Hmm, we still have to resolve this because I, I, I, I, he's a cardiologist. Well, no, I, if you notice in the food

pyramid, there's a lot of fruits and vegetables, which mitigates the ingestion of the animal fats and the, and the dairy fats. But at the same time, they just had a series of studies that came out that showed lower dementia rates in people that take high saturated dairy fats, high quality dairy fats, eat a lot of cheese, eat a lot of cream. And again, this is what I'm thinking. I'm thinking these things are very disease-specific. You know, we're not talking about all-cause mortality. You were talking about cardiac disease. I'm talking about dementia. I think we still have to kind of sort that stuff out yet. Well, that's a fair comment, but I can tell you, nutritional epidemiology is highly flawed because, you know, nobody sticks on a diet and people are all over the place and they're trying to do food frequency questionnaires.

The only groups who really stay on a diet and they stick with it are particular religious groups. And the one to point to are the Adventists. Now, Ben Carson's been named our National Nutrition Advisors. It's interesting. You know, Adventists are lifelong vegans. They don't eat any animal proteins at all. No dairy, no saturated fat whatsoever. And there's some of the longest-lived, healthiest people in the country, the Seventh-day Adventist.

Yeah, a friend of mine is a nutritionist, biochemist, and she's a family practitioner also now. And she said, you know, nutrition is so complicated. You really can't say anything except she goes, I can say, though, that, that, that, that these unsaturated fats, when you heat them up, are carcinogenic, and that when they're deposited in an adipose, they seem to have an inflammatory component. And so the unsaturated fat story was kind of a sham. Well, I mean, this idea of, you know, you don't drink cooking oil.

You're using it for cooking, and there are some nuances there. But, you know, this idea of eating sticks of butter or eating steak three times a day, what have, you're talking massive. consumption of saturated fat. So I can just tell you as a doctor, what I do is I keep my saturated fat intake less than 10 grams a day. So what does that equate to? If I had a Morton steak, that would be 20 grams.

Okay, it's not too bad. But how about a water burger and fries? That's 60 grams of saturated fat. How about a pizza? That's 40 grams of saturated fat, several slices. So we actually have to get to grams of saturated fat, several slices. we actually have to get to grams of fat that you'd want to stay below. Now, I'm also very hard on carbs and starch.

I think the three things that promote disease and cause people to be fat and become diabetic and have heart blockages and all these other problems are three S's, sugars, starches, and saturated fat. I think they ought to be out of the food pyramid, not at the top. And I think at least, all right, then we all can agree that the carbs, is finally being told more accurately. And really, the carb story is really the insulin. It's really an insulin story. It's really what it is.

When you get right down to it, it's the effect of insulin spikes. But okay, so let's talk a little bit, one quick second here. Yeah, about flu. I had a chance to speak with Robert Redfield a couple days ago. And if you and I have had a lot of conversations about the bird flu and about the press, reporting on the bird flu and so the nonsense. You know, they were like, they were trying to whip up a frenzy last year if everyone recalls.

And we were all saying, hey, look, yeah, there could be a little outbreak, but get your emergency kits, get Tamiflu, have it on hand. There's good evidence that you can protect yourself with some readiness and Tamiflu. But I kept saying, I think you said this too, that if this thing does really break into human beings, it's got to be because somebody altered the virus. somebody's doing gain of function on the bird flu. And when I spoke to Redfield last week, he confirmed that that is happening, and he is terribly concerned that it's going to get out. Yeah, Redfield confirmed.

We actually have a peer-reviewed publication from the Kuller Foundation. It was published in poultry and wildlife sciences where it was conclusive. The origins of the most recent Clayton the bird flu outbreak emanated from the USDA Pultery Research Lab in Athens, Georgia. They were doing serial passage, gain-of-function research. So there's a movement. Yeah. And the USDA and Brooke Rawlins never denied it. So listen, this has been going on.

Thank goodness we quelled this bird flu outbreak. But we now have what's called superflu. Superflu is human flu. It's H3N2 influenza. It looks like the vaccines are completely useless against this. And it's even a greater impetus, I think. for people to be prepared, high-risk seniors and others, with a black contagion kit from the wellness company.

And so it's Tamiflu. I was talking to Mary Talley Bowden this morning, and she said, I wish that Tamiflu is available over the counter. I thought, ooh, that's an interesting idea. But that's what we're trying to provide, essentially, is with these emergency kits, is the availability with backup of physicians. Right.

So, you know, we have it prescribed in the kit. It's physician prescribed. Tamiflu is also Tamifari. It's one of four, FDA-approved anti-virals for influenza. And, you know, if it started on day one, it's amazingly effective. If it started on day five, it doesn't work at all. So, you know, people are confused out there, say, oh, Tamifluid doesn't work,

except it depends on when it started. And is this flu, I'm guessing, is more hand transmitted, fluid transmitted, than these respiratory viruses that we've been so preoccupied about? No, I think it's more respiratory transmitted. it. I've had some patients with it. And it's a legitimate concern that there have been, for instance, New York City is reporting near record influenza hospitalizations of visits. I think it's legit. And the term super flu is appropriate. But the response is not to go out and get more vaccines. You know, half of the nation takes flu shots. Three quarters of those hospitalized with influenza every year have taken the influenza. a vaccine. So it's not like the influenza vaccine is mitigating this. We need early treatment and we need prevention with nasal sprays and gargles. I was just going to say, if it is indeed a respiratory transmitted virus, then the nasal spray will be a perfect way to mitigate. And the vaccine, to my

understanding, does not protect H3N2, which is this so-called superflu. And then finally here, Peter, what are your thoughts on the change in the vaccine schedule for children? I know Nick Hulcher has been hard at work, looking at all crunching the data and talking about the deleterious effects of these excessive vaccine programs. It seems to me like we're getting into kind of a rational, a rational recommendation program. And it came from the president of the United States.

He tweeted out and through social, So he essentially gave the order to do this. You told Jim O'Neill to do it. It didn't come from Robert F. Kennedy or anybody else. This was a Trump, what I call boss move from Trump, that Trump listened to mothers. The sequence of events was McCullough Foundation produces its report on autism spectrum disorder that links vaccines to autism and susceptible children. Combination of vaccines in the modern day are a risk factor for the development

of autism. Then three weeks later, the CDC changes its stance on vaccines and autism on their website. Now, we had a press release at McCullough Foundation. We sent our report to O'Neill and Kennedy and everybody at HHS and at the White House. And sure enough, within 90 days, Trump just gives the order to make the change. Now, it's trimming the overall schedule, 17 diseases to 11, dropping the total number of doses by 55. All the vaccines are still available. And just like in Denmark, doctors will make decisions with patients on what's appropriate. And I can tell you as a doctor, Dr. Joe, that, you know, I know when a patient needs a pneumocococcal vaccine and a meningococcal vaccine. For instance, my brother-in-law, who's had his spleen

removed, you know, I was all over him to get vaccinated. So it's very important. We know what people need vaccines, and there are core vaccines and then the extras. Yeah, the hepatitis B was such a bizarre thing because I was involved with that one. And a reminder that 88 countries do not have vaccine mandates. Three of five communist countries do not have vaccine mandates. And I don't, the only you to know that one? China does not have vaccine mandates. China does not have vaccine mandates.

I want you to think about that. And I ask you a question? We need to get rid of the vaccine mandates here altogether. But maybe in Florida first. But go ahead, Susan. Dr. McCullough, what are your thoughts on the shingles vaccine? I, we just had recently a friend get shingles, a young woman. And I was like, oh, oh.

Let's hear what he says. I'm curious. Yeah, Susan, it depends if you took the chickenpox vaccine as a child. Now, there's five studies showing if you took the chickenpox vaccine as a child, you're much more likely to get shingles than somebody who had natural chicken pox. So I'll give you my case. I had natural chickenpox as a kid. And, you know, I went ahead and took the shingles vaccine, both.

doses now. And the second time, it was the roughest vaccine I ever took. I thought my arm was going to fall off. Me too. I'm not going to take anymore. Yeah. It's brutal. It was brutal. Okay. But I, you know, but you, I'm sure I've seen, and I've certainly seen plenty of incredibly painful, disabling post-herpetic neuralgia from shingles. I don't want it. I certainly don't want it. But I had a vet. I got chicken pox twice. when my triplets got it as a kid, because I didn't have it as a kid, and I didn't know, and I didn't get the vaccine.

So what if you get it in your 30s, naturally? You probably have obviously solid protection against chicken pox, and I imagine your risk is the same as mine for shingles. Here's the point about shingles. It must be treated on day one, Velayclovera Valtrux plus prednisone. People contact me. They're already two weeks into shingles.

Those are the ones who get post-hypetic neuralgia. And Dr. Drew is right. It can be brutal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're so right about the early treatment. I can't tell you how many people go, I have a spider bite. Or I've got, you know, they come in with all kinds of ideas about what this is.

I'm like, that's a single dermatome. That's got to be shingles. That's just got to be. And, you know, people are not educated about it, I guess. We've seen it in some young people lately. It's kind of weird and concerning. I don't know if it's some post-COVID vaccine phenomenon. I don't know if you've seen this.

but young people with shingles is sort of a trend right now. And I've seen that. Maybe because they had the vaccine. Well, that's what I'm saying. Well, no. No, Susan, it's as a child. It's both the infection. It's both SARS-CoV-2 infection in the vaccine.

I think has lowered our immune defenses on varicel as Zoster because I'm seeing shingles in both the vaccinated on vaccinated. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. But I mean the chickenpox vaccine, not the COVID vaccine. Yeah, no, we're seeing. It's not having, no. Oh, God. Yeah. It's so confusing.

By the way, I don't understand why the chickenpox vaccine is on the record on the sort of schedule for vaccines. I'm going to talk to Dr. Melho in a second about the ASIP and the, you know, the ACIP. But that one is surprised me. I didn't let my kids get that vaccine because when it was new, I don't know if you remember this, they got chickenpox. Because when it was new, there was some terrible reactions, Guillembray or whatnot in Japan. Do you remember this?

So it was brand new when my kids were baby and I was like, I'm not going to do it. I don't think they should get this vaccine. So they get chicken pox, big deal. And that's what we went through. So all these vaccines are not that well studied when they come to the market. So anyway, we'll see. All right, Dr. McCullough, we so appreciate when you stop by it. You know, I just love your work.

And Nick, we are so grateful for what he's doing. He's been very kind to come by and review some of his data with us. What's coming up for you? Where do you want people to go to hear about where you're doing these things and what you're doing? Well, make sure people go to McCullough Foundation, mcculloughfndee.org. We've got some great plans for next year. We've got some big grant-funded projects. Check out my professional website for patient visits at petermuclachlund.com.

Of course, America Out Loud Talk News, McCullough Report. And then go to focal points, sign up the focal points. come get an update every day between 4 and 5 a.m. Central. That's where people are getting the critical abstracts and the scientific information to help guide them, since all of us now have to be in this world of public health. It's so true. And finally, where can people get the McCullough Protocol if they're worried that they have any post-COVID or post-vaccine injury? Right. So McCullough Protocol is on my professional website, peter McCulloughMD.com. It's also also on the wellness company website, TWC.Health,

and at McCullough Foundation, McCulloughFND.org. So McCullough Protocol, most widely used approach to treat acute COVID-19, and then McCullough Protocol, based by protein detoxification, the most widely used, a fundamental approach to handle long COVID

and vaccine injury syndromes. And you're seeing good results? Yeah, now it takes time, but we're seeing good results. We're seeing the converse that people do not get better from long COVID, or vaccine incident without the McCullet Protocol. And that's in the ultimate spike detox from the wellness company.

It's this product here, ultimate spike detox. I'm not seeing patients get better without it. Yeah. Yeah, my daughter had a, when I got a vaccine, had a reaction. I said, get the spike detox. I don't want to talk about it. Don't get anything else. Just get the spike detox.

Yeah, I gave her the spike detox. We got to get the super ultimate one, though, right? That's the one that you. Yeah, I have the old one. Susan, you got to stick with. it for about a year. It's not a quick fix. She seemed a lot better today. She had a really bad day yesterday, and I don't know why she did it, but she did. So we're going to give it to her for a year. Lastly, what do you make of Dr. Redfield's theory that some of this is a massed cell

mediated phenomenon? It doesn't fit for me, but he's very convinced of that. Do you have that same feeling as well? That it's what type of vaccine is a massed, mass. cell mediated. They got mass cell into B, M-A-S-T, mass-celled instability. Well, the M-A-S-T, the mass cells and basophils are the main cells that contain histamine and there can be easily triggered. The spike protein is the core of this. And yes, people, probably everybody who's taking the vaccine or he had long COVID, has an easier discharge of histamine and other mediators from these cells. But it's due to the spike protein. It's not a spontaneous problem that's, uh, that's, uh, unrelated. The basis of everything we're seeing right now is the spike protein. Yes, this is the part

that people have to get. And so if you're going to take a vaccine for the pathogenic to deliver the pathogenic protein to you, you need to think long and hard about it because it makes no sense to me, particularly in an unregulated fashion in which it's produced by the MRI vaccines. Anyway, that's a longer conversation we've had it before. Dr. McCullough, thank you so much for joining me. We'll see you again soon. Thank you. Got it. All right.

Next up, we're going to speak. I love him. Yeah, of course. Dr. Kirk Milhoun, he is a pediatric cardiologist and chair of the CDC's advisory committee on immunization practices, the ACIP. We're going to be back with him in just a second. Next year, the national debt is going to hit $40 trillion. As insane as that sounds, it's even worse when you consider unfunded liabilities for

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slash v-shredmdmd for 10% off. Again, that is Dr. drew.com slash v shred MD. Let's ask Dr. Drew. I have no idea who Dr. Drew is. He's been watching a lot of Dr. Drew lately. And Dr. Malhoun can be followed at heart and soul.org. Also, K. Milhoun, M.D., Ph.D. And X. Dr. Milhoun, thank you so much for joining us.

It's a pleasure. Thank you. I wonder if you first would mind reviewing your tale of intrigue. of how your peers treated you and what it was like to get on the ACIP committee. And then we'll talk about what you found once you got there. Yeah, it's been quite an eye-opening adventure for someone who's not only a scientist, but also a physician. You know, I've always thought that medicine wanted to debate things and have discussions. And from my years is getting my PhD, you realize that there are lots of different opinions from looking at the same data.

Just like you and Dr. McCullough are talking about diet. There's a lot of different opinions looking at the same data, right? That's right. And so it's a fair thing for there should be a healthy disagreement in science because science isn't settled. It's always on. We're always finding out new things, new opportunities, things that work better than we thought they would and things that have risks that we didn't appreciate. So when I came into this, there was an almost immediate ad hominem attacks against me and who I was and what I had said. And it was just interesting that you didn't want to talk about the data.

It was just attacks. And I've always been, I'm not, I don't necessarily have a dog in the fight for the vaccine industry. I don't, I just, if it works well and people are happy with the risk versus the benefits, it's I want patients and doctors to come together and make those decisions. So it sort of shocks me some of the banter that is out there in the vitriol over that we would question any of these things. So there was a little uptick in disapproval that was coming from within parts of the hospital that I work in right now as an inpatient pediatric cardiologist. And people were concerned that I was putting on some of my notes. notes that I believe that this dysotonomia or potts-like syndrome was probably secondary

or could be secondary to COVID vaccine, which is very clear in the literature. People were complaining that I put that on a differential diagnosis. And they asked me, so what was your proof? And I handed them five papers. And so that went on. But when I was made the chairman, that brought it up to a new level. And the attack papers came out in in strength. And it was interesting because I was in Hong Kong when I was the first meeting, I was sort of supposed to be the chair of at a World Congress of pediatric cardiology and cardiac surgery.

And every day we had pro and con debates. And it wasn't like there was any problem with that. But after the ASIP, after looking at all the data, especially for the hepatitis B negative mother that we know their hepatitis being negative really we felt no benefit for the birth dose and there was only risk of neonatal fever and a whole bunch of other concerns that we saw there was in we saw two different studies that had an uptick and cids following that and so what we what we advised was to move that out of the neonatal period which is a very critical period of development in the in the infant and let people decide because it's really a sexually in blood transmitted disease.

So a lot of the other countries have been doing this idea of you only treat for high risk, not for low risk. And there are a lot of data out there. They're encouraging and showing that is completely with very low risk at all of someone getting hepatitis B. So when we did that, there was a huge outcome. that we were going to send all these kids to death. But everything we've done, we've allowed everything to get the same vaccines.

Any of our changes of recommendations have still made it available for a doctor and patient to get whatever they would like. But we don't feel like we can recommend things that we don't have the data to support and be able to explain to patients. Clearly, what is the risk and what are the benefits? both of what is the risk of getting the disease? What is the risk of getting a vaccine? What is the benefit of getting the vaccine? So all these things would, and then suddenly I found myself getting a phone call and I thought, oh, I know what this is.

I was in Hong Kong. And it was like, we're going to have to let you go. And I said, well, you're sure you don't want to just hide me? You can put me in a clinic. I won't be in the hospital. It won't be such a thing. But they were getting so many phone calls. And I don't know who they were getting the phone calls.

from but they were getting so many phone calls they just said it become a public i'd become a basically a public relations nightmare for them um and uh then the lovely dr miller is a pediatric cardiac anesthesiologist um she wrote she wrote a she wrote a substack basically on the irony that they were coming after me she goes and basically what she was saying is this is like the most scientifically sounded guy i know he won't he's not going to get confused by a youtube video or this. And so she said, what an irony of this. Well, that, that substat got legs. And then one of the heart surgeon I worked with really came to bat for me and said, this isn't, what you're doing is you're, this isn't right. And so he got me reinstated within 24 hours. But boy, that the,

the, I've had so many pediatricians and nurses and others come. I've had people contact me saying, that oh boy they really appreciate this sort of bringing a light to this area that we thought was really really well studied and as we bring the light in and investigate and ask just honest simple questions we're finding that it isn't as it isn't the science isn't as secure and the data isn't as we would have hoped and people are saying to me privately I don't want to say anything I'm afraid I'm going to lose my career but we like what you're doing. And that to me is chilling.

Oh, listen. There's so many layers to that. One is, it seems like a lot of it is trumped arrangement at the outset. But then underneath that is this notion that the CDC is practicing medicine or something, that the CDC is going to mandate what we do as physicians. It's an advisory panel, strictly, strictly advisory. When I was teaching medicine, here are words that never came out in my mouth. Does the CDC allow you to do that?

Or what does the FDA say about that? Never, ever. I might say, give me the MMR, give MWR, let me look at it. But I said, give me the literature. Give me what data there is. Give me what research there is. Let me evaluate it. That's how we practice medicine.

This notion that the government is involved in that is wild. It's just wild. And so there's that. And then there's this aspect of bottom up prison guards, essentially, you know, forcing everybody into this weird, this weird, you know, lockstep world that is the opposite of how I was trained, the opposite of science, as I understand it. And it's just the weirdest thing. It's like being in some sort of through the looking glass in some way. Could you imagine 20 years ago? could you, if somebody had described this to you, you would just, I wouldn't understand what they were talking about.

You just, I don't, I don't, what do you, what? What? I think you, I'm sure you had this experience as well. When I looked at patients, there were a lot of reasons I would, I might give them an exemption for, just like I would declare a patient allergic to a medicine. I would say, you know what, your history, what I hear here, I don't want you to have this vaccine or this vaccine or this vaccine or maybe I don't want you to have any vaccines, depending on what their history was. I was never questioned on that. There was never, I never got a form. I could just say this person is exempted from this vaccine. That was it. Then all of a sudden during COVID we started getting these forms that I had to tell you why I was exempting them.

I don't, that was such a violation of a patient doctor relationship. But now the school secretary is getting this information. The, the major D at the restaurant gets to know what your personal medical. And I was just like, this is unbelievable. What we're seeing. This is unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah, it's unbelievable.

So what happened once you got inside the ACIP? What did you see there? Because I probably was like you. I was like, oh yeah, vaccines, most important thing. And, you know, since good nutrition and sanitation, I would just say that over and over and over again. I used to say there were enough vaccines available for my family. We need more. More vaccines.

Got them. That's what people did. They developed more vaccines. I was wrong. I was absolutely wrong. And I've had to reconsider all that. And it's interesting. Hepatitis B for me is sort of kind of for me where the rubber is the throat, because I was involved in some of that research in early 80s.

And we never intended that for babies. It was designed for maternal fetal transmission in China and for health care workers and for drug addicts. That's who we were concerned with. And if you have risk for hepatitis B later in life, take the damn vaccine. And I took the booster recently. Yeah, because I have some risk as a health care provider. but to give it to one day old was the weirdest thing in the world to me. Yeah, well, you know, the New York Times did a beautiful job in 1991, explain why they did it.

They did it because they couldn't get uptake in the adult population. So they just went ahead and decided to make it basically mandatory or recommended for all newborns. I think what you're seeing here with the new ASIP committee is we're committed to returning back to not a copy, a cookie cutter approach to medicine, but an individualized doctor. patient, the decision being made between doctor and patient. The pendulum swung too far to public health, and we were doing, we wanted everything done for the same people so there'd be no questions, but that's not good medicine. Good medicine is personally tailored medicine between doctor and patient, understanding everything. Because you know this. Every person has a different risk factor, different genetics, different home background they're living in. And to say that we're going to do the same thing for

everyone is actually we're doing harm to people who don't need something. And to me, that is where we need to start out with, especially for a preventive medicine. A preventive medicine is different than if I have someone dying in the ICU. I use a lot more risky medicines when I have someone on the brink of death. Everyone sort of understands that. When I am looking at a perfectly healthy child, then my standard for low risk, if I don't even know this person's going to get this disease, that risk has to be close to zero, or else I'm doing harm. But of course, it's do no harm, risk-reward analysis, but public health doesn't really have that same mandate.

And you're just talking about practicing medicine the way we've always practiced it. Something happened in the last 12 or 14 years where this, you know, I started seeing a lot of MPHs after people's name and I didn't understand. Why? Why are you all getting public health degrees? And it sort of took over and then I feel like something happened with the electronic medical record and where all of a sudden everyone's following algorithms. It just moved in a direction that was a nath about a medicine. Yeah, I think that that's absolutely true.

What I also say is that a lot of the data that we're being shown is coming from medical records and they're just, they're, they're just looking at data, of the electronic medical record. The problem is that's only as good as how conscientious the person who's filling out the medical record is. And most of us who do electronic medical records, if a patient has 15 diagnoses, I'm not necessarily going to put down all the diagnoses that that patient has. I'm going to put down what I want to for why I'm seeing them.

And I just want to get the green light so I can get out of the chart. Because they have cost me so much more time doing an electronic medical record. And in the old days, I could just do a quick dictation and get all the good information there. But so this information is being used. And there's this sense that if we did the data mining of the electronic medical record, that is unflaught. And that's what Tracy Beth Hogue, when she and the people of the FDA went back in and looked at a lot of the COVID death data and started looking at charts, not ICD codes, but charts. And then they started saying, wait a minute, when we looked at the charts, there's a lot. a lot more concerned.

That's why they really started seeing the death signal and the young males who had really zero risk for COVID. And we were giving them something that caused serious harm, even to the point of death. And back to your observation about pots, I saw tons of pots, and I saw tons of atrial arrhythmists and young people, which you never saw before.

And some of those pots syndrome where people faint, essentially, ended up like Bob Sagitt. They ended up falling on a hard floor, fracture in their skull and dying. Heather McDonald's, Heather McDonald did it during a, during a performance. That was lucky.

She was lucky that she didn't kill herself to falling off the stage. Yeah. But it's not just that they're having, you know, lightheadedness. It causes syncope, real fainting. Yeah, and very dangerous. That's to me the most dangerous thing about syncope is if there's some syncope where people have no warning and they just go over and your risk of head injury is my biggest concern. But what I'm seeing is not only pox, but I'm seeing what I would call it inappropriate

at sinus tachycardia. That's when someone's sitting on a couch. They're not standing up. They're just sitting. And all of a sudden, their heart rate goes up to 180. And then it drops down to 40. And then, so the body has lost control over the heart rate. And so you have this adrenal surge that's causing a race.

And then the vagus comes in and you might drop very low. But this is very disconcerting to people. And as a cardiologist, what will happen is you do a Holter monitor. So look at what the EKG looks like. And what you see is science rhythm. It's science tachycardia, but it's science rhythm. Well, we always sort of are reassured by that that they don't have superventricular tachy or ventricular tachy or cartycardia. Right.

But so we go, oh, don't worry, it's not a problem. But the person says, wait, I have a heart rate of 180 because I look on my eye watch or my Fitbit. And it's very disconcerting if you're sitting there all by yourself. And all of a sudden your heart rate goes up to 180 because you think, what's going to happen? Is it going to, am I going to die? And so I, by the way, think that some, I think some of that is actually a junctional rhythm. It looks like a sinus rhythm. I really do.

Because I've seen people get ablations that take care of all that, of a low rhythm source, you know, near the essay, no. But we're getting into the weeds, you and I. Let's go back to the ASIP committee. And what you found when you got in there? What has been shocking to you now that you've looked under the hood? A couple different things. One is there's a posity of data that can really be understood and give true information to parents and those who are taking medicines on what the real risks and benefits and how far we've studied these vaccines or vaccine products or even monoclonal antibodies to watch for long-term risk.

some of these like for the hep bee stuff some of it was seven days and less that's how long they studied to see for any untoward effects the other thing that we've seen is a real posity of post marketing evaluations of these products and so those two those two things i think that there's been i know i did there was an assumption that all of the really good evaluation had been done i spent five years of my life in I was getting my PhD and doing very rigorous science. And I understood all about controls and how there are so many confounders. And the schedule we have right now is so full that it is full of so many confounders. And people have so many confounders.

And there is diet and there is genetics and there is environment. And so many things. So to try to tease this out, it is really difficult. So if we don't know, we should err on the part of safety, not on let's just give it anyway. And so that's what we're trying to do is we're trying to bring back true risk assessments. And when those weren't done, then we're going to be honest with people that we really don't know. And that we need to look long term at these interventions that we've been doing and be honest with people if we've caused harm. And then what really has to happen is the medical community and the government needs to take some

responsibility and realize that we have encouraged people and that has caused them to be harmed. And we have to come to their defense and we need to start doing rigorous studies as Dr. Badacharya and others have talked about to see how we can help them. Because we are still really trying to figure out how we can help those people who just have either long COVID or injury from the COVID vaccine. Yep. No, I absolutely agree. And at least you're able to say those words out loud. without people going, there's no problem with the vaccine. So why are, why are, I always saw it, you know, when people talk about vaccine safety,

they go, it's been used by millions of people, it's all perfect, it's fine. But of course, there's been no studies done, has there? There's actually no post-approval, real significant science done. Is that accurate? Well, especially not without huge confounders. When you try to pull these apart, when, if you listen to the 2000, 18 ASA meeting and they were talking about these things. They were talking about combination vaccines. And so they had already approved what was recommended and they said they had no data, but it was

approved 100% by the committee. Then they went to some questions and they said, well, do we have any data from Europe that shows using these combined vaccines and that said, we have no data? Do you have any from the U.S.? No, we have no data? That's amazing. Those questions were asked after they had 100% approval. approval. So what was happening? What was that? Was that some weird group think? What, what, what was hard to believe? What was that? So the CDC, the people of the seat and subject matter experts of the CDC presented the data and said we recommend approval. And so the committee said, I see. Okay. And so what's happening when we're going, well, wait a minute, we don't have enough data at the like we can recommend. We're, you know, I think a lot of us, we've dug a lot deeper in the big thing since the COVID vaccine.

I think that really changed a lot of people's eyes in terms of can I trust this data. And, you know, we started, we started seeing something in scientific papers that sounded like public health papers and not science papers. And they seemed like they had to say certain things in the literature like, well, we all know it works. Actually, we don't know it works. The study out of Cleveland Clinic is really quite damning. And when you look at the other data in terms of risks, they're largely being ignored. I think probably you've seen the VERS data on the amount of reports and it just skyrocketed. It looks like a skyscraper when you look at the COVID years. That's, where's the curiosity of doctors?

doctors. But I know they're curious. They're just afraid. And by the way, they, and I made a guy, I had a hundred-year-old woman. I saw not a lot of bad reactions in elderly patients. That's mostly who I was vaccinating. And I think I helped some with, particularly in the alpha and delta eras. But by the way, that's the other thing I just drives me insane. Every time people bring up the benefits of vaccine, they keep talking about a virus that's not here. They talk about Alpha and Delta. Yes, there was a six-month period where there probably was some real benefits for elderly patients. It was a different virus than Omicron. Stop talking about Alpha and Delta. It's so weird. Yeah, very true. Yes. So, crazy. But, but, but I made a report on a hundred-year-old

that had an atrally rhythm, like instantly after getting the vaccine, like a couple hours later, nearly died. A hundred-year-old doesn't want to go in the hospital. I had to make a manager is an outpatient. I'm anticoagulating her and all this stuff. And we got through it. And she did okay. I've made a Vero's report. Followed up twice. No follow up whatsoever. Near death experience and I'm 100 year old directly related to vaccine. Clearly a vaccine injury. No, no interest, no curiosity, no nothing. Oh yeah. This various thing is worthless. It's worthless. And I'm sure you've read Joseph Freiman's stuff too where he and his group did some, you know, interesting studies on the Pfizer original Pfizer analysis and he got a meeting with the FDA and the stuff that the FDA was not aware of was

just mind blowing mind blowing in their own system people reporting stuff to them ignorant of yeah so hopefully we have a lot of people who are interested in bringing the transparency and the integrity back we have to do something because the the lack of trust in medicine it's not just for vaccines It's spread into all medicine. And it is, we have to do whatever we need to do. There has to be some real soul searching. There has to be a lot more humility among the medical community to be able to say, wow, we're wrong on this and make it better.

We lose trust for not just vaccines, but all of medicine. Yeah. I mean, you and I are of similar heritage and vintage, and here we are years later. It's just, I don't recognize my profession. So let's hope we can kind of bring it back. I thank you for the work you're doing. And I know you have to stand up to a lot. And if there's more we can do to support you or to get information out,

we have a pretty good following here. Let me quickly just go to my chat room here and see people are thinking, yeah, they're very supportive. This is a, as much I know as noise as there is on one side, there's a lot of people who really value and appreciate what you're doing. and we get to hear from those people. So they're saying thank you, and I will say the same. And where would you like people to go to find you?

They can find me on F and K-M-L-H-O-H-O-A-N. K-M-I-L-H-O-A-N? Is that right? Yeah. M-D-H-L-A-N. Wait, I'm looking at it right now. M.K. Milhoun. There it is. Okay. Got it. All right. Thank you so much. And I hope to talk to you again very soon.

Okay. Bye-bye. All right. Now we're going to wrap it up with some wisdom from Jeffrey Tucker from Brownstone Institute right after this. Weight loss and gum loss. The wellness company's got you covered with new products. Drop. It's for aggressive appetite control. It comes in easy to use liquid drops. No prescription, no painful shot. It is an oral peptide called retartratratide. It actually mimics the way the body naturally loses weight, and it is designed to support faster, more focused weight loss when combined with healthy eating and exercise. And smile is a breakthrough fluoride-free peptide toothpaste.

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Jeffrey Brownstone Institute. Thank you so much for being here as always. Did you hear some of that? I imagine a lot of that interested you. We live in extraordinary times. Yeah, I can't stop talking about all these subjects, whether it's ASAP or the new dietary stuff or the new research on vaccines or what's happening from HHS

with the childhood schedule. I find this stuff endlessly fascinating. I feel like I know a lot of the players. I love information gathering. The press cares, brownstone cares. It's one of the most exciting times of my life, I have to say. But it's so crazy to me. When we were all together in Pittsburgh, there was almost an underground gathering.

You know, it was we dare to share ideas that were running countercurrent to the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it's like, it's, it's, it's, I, I don't think since Thomas Aquinas time, have we seen stuff like this? This is the Spanish Inquisition stuff. Isn't it remarkable, Dr. Drew? Because, you know, so much of this was born with the COVID response. Life is going to seem to be going along normal. I believe that was for me. Life's normal.

Life's good. Yeah, we can make a few tweaks here and there, but progress is happening. And out of nowhere, everything went into upheaval. You know, our schools, churches closed, businesses shut. there were drones flying over the sky looking for house parties to make sure they weren't happening. I had to arrange for underground haircut a person to come to a house and invited some friends.

She insisted on cash only. It was an insane time. You know, thrown out of stores for not wearing masks and so on. My social circle was entirely ruined. And my ideological world was shattered because not everybody agreed. A lot of people I thought were for liberty

were suddenly all for lockdowns. And then we waited to see, well, what's the point of all this stuff? Where are we going with this? And then comes the injection, right? Clearly not necessary for a vast

demographic of the population. They were forced to get it. Students in college were told your life will be ruined unless you get this shot. Wait, I don't think I need it. It doesn't matter. You have to comply.

My whole life I've waited to go to college. This is my career. Too bad for you. And with the emergency use authorization on the PEP Act, nobody has any liability for what was incurred. Nothing. Nobody. They harm people.

This is the real problem with the business mandates and the school mandates. Because a lot of people said, well, you know, schools have all. sorts of standards. They can make any rules they want. Business, you know, says you can't work for us unless you do X, Y, Z. So what? They add a vaccine. Okay, maybe that's their freedom. But on the other hand, in a free market, there's liability. Like, if something goes wrong, somebody's got to pay the price. But these vaccine manufacturers were indemnified against all harm. So you know they can never be held accountable for this by law. So this is an outrage.

Not just the vaccine manufacturers, but those that mandated the vaccine because of the Prep Act incurred no liability. I thought they should be gone after. I found out the Prep Act protected them. And then now I feel like somebody took the sheets of the bed just like this, like this, because now we're looking at fraud and how NGOs operate. All these things we didn't know about when life was going along normally before COVID. It exposed so much.

Everything. Everything. It's like the curtain was pulled back on the entire racket, which was already there, but we didn't, at least I personally didn't know it was there. So this is all new to me. I had no idea. And for me, I started Brownstone and Sue mainly to investigate this stuff. Like, what's wrong with the world that would have allowed this situation to happen? And the more we look, the more we're shocked. The Minnesota thing is very much connected to the COVID response, which people don't mention, but it is. Over the course of about 13 months between March 2020 and April 2021, the federal government released $4.6 trillion in the form of paycheck protection and direct infusions to bank accounts and subsidizing child care and everything else. And now it turns out, and by the way, that's so nobody knows what $4.6 trillion means, right? But if you think of as the GDP of Japan or the GDP of Germany, okay, that's what it is, was flooded throughout the entire country. And now all these years later we're seeing what happened to it. And it went into a bunch of fakery or money laundering or vote buying. The scandals are just astounding.

Because it's no wonder a collapse in government, the collapse and trust in government is so palpably obvious. It's down to 17%. You know, in the early 1960s, it was 80%. Now it's the 17%. Same thing with the media. Same thing with the medical profession. And it's hardly a surprise that vaccine's uptake is as collapsed and the industry is scared. So here's the irony of the whole thing, Dr. Drew to me. As far as I can take, hell, the lockdowns happen to prepare the way for the shot, right? So we've got a big industry saying, don't worry, we'll inoculate the population against this terrible disease.

So they come out with this product. Nobody wants it or not that many people wanted it. So they have to mandate it across the population. Well, all these years later, what's the effect? Nobody trusts the industry anymore. Vaccine uptake has collapsed. We're seeing vaccines. removed from the childhood schedule. So it was a catastrophe, even from the point of view, of pharma.

It's like they overreached. And now everything is being unraveled. And to me, this is the right way to understand everything that's happening right now. Mass incredulity is resulting in dramatic political reforms. Two of these we've seen just this week with the upheaval in the childhood schedule. HHS said we're tired of waiting for the ASEP committee. It's going too slow. So here's your new childhood schedule, right? Dropped it from 88, 82 shots to like 23, 17 diseases to 11. That was one day.

24 hours later, we've got the food pyramid turned upside down, something everybody wanted to see happen for really decades, but nobody was willing to do anything. And the reason for this is essentially RFK cannot act fast enough. I mean, I think they're getting the message here that we need dramatic truth-telling and huge reform immediately. And speaking of reform, I read your Brownstone post on insurance. I don't know if you're aware.

I think this just happened. The House passed a three-year extension on Obamacare subsidies. No, I knew that was going to happen. It had to happen, right? I mean, because they couldn't get their act together in time. So, yeah, what else are they going to do? But before the end of the year, they need to get their act together and get a serious, comprehensive reform program in line.

And I've been very much an advocate of this. And I wrote an article for Epilop Times the other day. and it went in their weekly email. Was the Epiop Times? I thought it was Brownstone. Where did people find it? Because I thought it was Brownstone. Yeah, well, I think that was at epoch times.

Although I wrote one version of our early version for Brownstone. But what I did in the epoch article was make it simple enough so even a politician could understand. Right? Yeah. Yeah, it was good. The Republicans just can't seem to get their act together. And it's a shock. They don't know what to do.

So I laid out three essential points and then two, you know, would be nice to have, as clearly stated as possible. So that they can prioritize what they need to do to fix the medical insurance marketplace starting now. I mean, yeah, the extension of subsidies, what else are going to do? I get it. They didn't have a plan. If you can believe it after 10 years, more than 10 years, they still don't have a plan to replace Obamacare. So my article is designed to give a plan with three priorities. It was like a roadmap, too.

I like the way you laid it out. But when I stand back, the stuff that jumped out at me was high, high, you know, insurance against catastrophe, which what insurance was supposed to be, not an entitlement, but an insurance. insurance against severe financial liability. So let's just stop right there. Right. We need to stop right there because this is actually the most important thing. You cannot buy really a catastrophic plan in the medical marketplace for insurance today if you're over 30. And that's crazy. I have friends of mine with, you know, two, three, for kids, they're paying twice their mortgage on health insurance. This is crazy. Everybody should have access to a catastrophic plan. Absolutely.

Yes. Well, and you were sort of advocating that we untangle it from employers and maybe have our own sort of savings plans or something in that zone. Well, so number one, make available catastrophic interest. They don't have to make it available. They only have to permit insurers to offer that. I asked AI how much would that cost and they came back

to be like $100 a month maybe, you know, depending on what it covers. Wow. Wow.

Yeah, it's entirely affordable. Crazy. Yeah. And it could happen. It's what it was designed to be. Yeah, it was designed to be

you remember back in the 60s hospital expense suddenly went through the roof. People were, because people were being, getting fancy treatments and surgeries and ICUs were invented and the ventilators came into being these things cost money and people were being given these multi-hundred thousand dollar bills

when they left the hospital and it was destroying people. This is the 60s. And they said, oh, we got to insure against that. And we did. And then all of a sudden the employers were competing for labor by offering more and more and more and more coverage till it became just axiomatic that People are entitled to it. It's a human right. And that's what we really went off the rail. And Obamacare, I think you had a bunch of intellectuals with the blackboard and they started just listing what should be in these plans. And they kept adding to it and adding to it and adding to it.

Hillary Clinton. You know, yeah. Mental health coverage. I mean, you name it everything. And then now we have three, we have defined benefits packages that are mandated by law. This has to stop immediately. this would solve so much of the problem. If you could have insurers just give a minimalist package to people that they could purchase

and otherwise paying cash for their health care. And it would cover catastrophic things. Like, okay, a skiing accident, sudden cancer. It's a lot of cost, too. Things, yeah, the things that you need to. So the Republicans need to get this right. Make catastrophic available, at least allow the insurers to make. make it available to people to purchase.

And people would flee to such programs immediately. All the people that are paying for Obamacare right now, they're not covered by their employment. They would flee to these plans immediately. And it would dramatically reduce the cost. I don't even understand why this is a question. This is the most important thing. The second point I made concerns to HSAs, which we have,

and a lot of people know about them. But you know, I'm sure you know this, but HSAs are only available right now to the insured population, which doesn't make any sense. The whole point of an HSA is to make it possible for people to save money for their health care and that money is tax-free and it can be invested. So it grows if the financial markets are rising. It grows over time. So you have a nest egg reserved just for health care purchases. but you only have access to HHS, HSA's today, if you already have insurance.

And the reason for that, of course, is to cover the extremely high and growing so-called, I hate this language, deductibles that are a part of insurance. Right now you pay for insurance. I hope this is not getting boring. But you pay for insurance, but you don't get anything. All you get is coverage.

But if you use it, now suddenly you're really going to pay. So you may be paying $27,000 a year. But for what? For the right to pay more? That's it? Okay. So the purpose of the HSA is to enable you to, you know,

have a nest egg in case you have to have deeper diagnostics or there's catastrophic thing. Okay. All that's fine. But why is it only reserved for the insured? It should be available to everybody. Anybody should be able to go. to their bank, click a button, here's my HSA, throw unlimited amounts of money into the HSA,

so that they can be liberated from this exploitative system. So you might even drop your health insurance in exchange for which you're saving money for coverage. Now, if you can combine that with a catastrophe. And you, yeah, combine it with a catastrophic coverage. You're pretty much there. and you have the power of the marketplace in your hands. Believe me, physicians will happily, they want to take care of people. They want to help people, and they'll reduce their prices.

And you'll find, because you'll now be actually paying cash on the barrelhead, that you won't go to an urgent care because that's $1,200. You go to the doctor, it's $37. It really is so cheap. People don't even understand how cheap it is a student. Economizing on what you're spending

because you're looking at your HSA grow in value. You like the fact that you have $10,000, $20,000 sitting there in HSA. It delights you. You don't really want to use it. So now suddenly you've got an incentive to stay healthy and to watch your costs and to ask your providers what are they going to charge for the service. That completely changes everything. But it's got to be made to one.

worry. A single person. Mr. Mamdani, Mr. Mamdani will institute centralized services for everybody.

It's going to be okay. Don't worry. So I... But what about Social Security? Like, we've had great insurance

all these years because Drew is saying afterwards. We're paying tax on Social Security Medicare because we work and we put money

in every year, a lot of it between Drew and myself. But then we also get charged for our Medicare and we get penalized for our Medicare because we make money.

And then we have to buy supplemental. So I'm up to like 25 grand or maybe more or 30 a grand a year between us. And I'm not a sick person, but I don't understand how people live like this. Like, I mean, we're fortunate enough to be able to afford it and whatever. And we were really lucky with our SAG after it for years and years. Thank you, MTV. But I find that the system is really flawed in this way. And I mean, I don't need to have free services of.

something comes up, but I appreciate it now, but I'm paying in, paying in, paying in. Yeah, my article does not touch Medicare. And my own view is the Republicans are so shockingly lame and so dispersed and confused about this, that we just really need to focus on a few points. And that's why my article just reduces it to make catastrophic coverage available, make HSAs available for everybody, including the uninsured, with unlimited contributions.

Oldly people? Yeah, no, I mean, I think HSAs are one of the few innovations. Keep in mind, they're only invented to enable this high deductible things, right? There's no way you could have $5,000, $10,000, $30,000 deductibles and not allow people to save money tax-free to pay for that.

So that's why they're there. But, okay, we've got them. Now expand them. My third point is designed to say we need to have incentives to get people to untie employment from health care, which is a weird thing. Like, why are the same thing? It's inhibiting job creation because, that makes employees much more expensive to hire.

And the premiums are going up and up and up. And it ties people to the jobs that they may not like and makes them feel like they can't go well. The benefits are good. All right. You can get rid of this system through incentives, right? So if you can give businesses tax breaks for offloading their employees and encourage the employees to purchase their own

private insurance, you could completely decouple employment from the payment of health insurance. And therefore, get rid of a lot of this third-party stuff where people don't even know the cost. Employees have no idea how much this stuff costs. And they could be taking what their employers are paying and premiums for their health insurance as wages, as salary. And I bet that they would do that if they could go out into a marketplace that had catastrophic coverage plus high HSAs. No doubt. You can see. It's rational.

That's right. So these three points. Largely, they, yeah. Go ahead. Yeah, these three points would completely dismantle Obamacare, right? There's other details that we need to, we could go into here. and plenty more to do because so much is broken with the medical industry in general and blah, blah, blah.

There's a lot of things we can talk about. But if you could just prioritize these three points and get a small piece of legislation to do those three things, catastrophic plans, HSAs for everybody, and incentives and benefits for people to decouple the connection between health insurance and employment, you could already have a brilliant

reform and the rest, I think, would take care of itself. I agree. And it is, although humans are not strictly rational operators, they have a rational bent, rational bias. And this is tuning right into their rationalism. So let's wrap this up by telling people about Brownstone, what's coming up? What are you looking forward to? What's the year ahead in 2026 for Brownstone?

One thing I've started under your influence. Thank you, Dr. Drew. I felt Dr. Drew envy and started my own show. So there you go. So that's that I just recorded the first episode. Yay. Thank you for your. Oh, congratulations.

Yeah, I'm trying to emulate you. I like the pink background. You got to get me as a guest. You got to actually emulate me. Let me be a guest on your show. I like this. But I'm excited about that. The other thing that I think you would be interested

in knowing. Well, there's so much to know. But this is actually interesting. One of the great irritants in your life and in mine and in many, many millions of other people, in fact, billions of people around the world is that we have yet to see a real reckoning for the COVID period. Right. There's no commission, no apologies, no, it seems like everything's just been left hanging.

and all we have is anger and resentment, cynicism, and mass incredulity. Okay, what do you do about that? So here's my thought. What about a Senate resolution? A very plain statement, and I wrote it, and I published it on Brownson, a very plain statement, this was wrong, this was wrong, this was wrong, this never should have happened, this violated the Bill of Rights, we violated freedom of religion here, we violated informed consent, we knew. never should have told you to stay home.

We busted up your social networks. This was a, we censored you. We did terrible things. We kicked students. We out of school. We fired professors. We imposed mandates when nobody needed it. This is what happened.

It was terrible. We will never do anything like this again. Okay? So I wrote up a statement and it's, I'm going to say it's maybe 1500 words, I think, even shorter. But it's very clear. And it's something that I think every Republican, at least, for now, would be happy to sign off on. I'm pretty sure. So as of today, we now have several senators very interested in this. And it looks like, amazing. It looks like there's going to be hearings on it, on the COVID response itself. And I've been invited to

testify, so which is very exciting to me. Oh, fantastic. And if this happened, then we get this resolution in the Senate. Get it passed. And yeah, look, we're never going to have real justice. We can't get our money back. We lost 30% of our purchasing power of the dollar during the period. Blah, blah, blah.

We can go on all day. Learning losses, death. We can't reverse history, but at least we can get this much, a sense of the Senate resolution. that this was bad, this was wrong, and we can't ever let anything like this happen again. So I'm excited about this. I'm not a political person,

but I think this would be an important cultural statement. Like we need closure to this somehow. Well, it's not just closure, but those of us that are so upset about this, the most profound concern is they could do it again. And if something was installed in the historical record as we hold these truths to be self-evident about the COVID era, that could have a profound effect for the record. Jeffrey, I've got to wrap it up. Please keep us posted when that is going to happen or what we can do to support it or maybe meet you in Washington and be there in the galley and get behind you.

Whatever it might be. Just remember when it's successful, you have to do it. time. What's that? When you become successful, you can't go, I don't want to do this today. You have to do it. Oh, I didn't know that. So she's on me your show.

She switched to your show. You got to do your show whether you want to do or not. Oh, my show. I know it's going to be weekly. Let's see how it goes. You know, I watch you, Dr. Drew, just to see what I want to be like when I grow up. That's all. Yeah.

You're there, my friend. I've heard you speak. and I have no doubt this will be this will be a wonderful show. I'm looking at your particular He wants to come to one of your events. It just hasn't worked out. I know.

I'm dying to go to a brownstone. That was so wonderful in Pittsburgh. I know I want to get back. Don't forget about him. Jeffrey Tucker.com. People were so thrilled by your talk in Pittsburgh. There's a standing ovation. People were crying.

It was such a moving and brilliant talk. And I chose right, right? I mean, that was the culminating speech of the end. Perfect. Oh, yeah, Dr. Bottacharya was so amazing. I was so fun meeting him in person. Yeah. Yeah, but you were brilliant, Dr.

Well, I had two, I had two, I had two, there were two moments for me with that speech. One was, before I went up, you went, I was like, I'm not sure if I should include this, and you just go, my advice to just always just get up there and speak from the heart. And I thought, all right, I'm throwing it all away. And I'm just going to do what Jeffrey tells me to do. So I had my notes, but I threw it away for the most part. And then the most meaningful thing for me, I think, I hope you remember this. Brett Weinstein ran up to me afterwards and went, that is the problem.

The adulteration of science. The scientific method is not being taught. It's a delicate instrument. People don't understand this. And I thought, yes, I see it. I've seen it for 40 years. It's been a problem. And so I hope he is still with us and working hard with Brownstone, because

that piece needs to be not forgotten because that that I think Dr. Milhoun who I just spoke to is a strong advocate of this as well I'm sure but but Brett is his own special um influence we got to get keep him our nation's biological scientist I mean he's he represents in many ways he is the science for us you know I'm like in a real sense well he he he defends the the the the waste Francis Bacon's notion of the scientific method, which is science. And it has never changed. And we have adulterated. We don't teach it. And it is made for shitty results, necessarily shitty results. Jeffrey, always great. It's been too long. Let's get you back in here soon. I'm going to go back in your thing. I'm going to see in Washington. We're going to come to the Senate hearings and watch you

take these people on. I can't wait. All right. Thank you, Dr. Drew. Thank you for having me. All right, Jeffrey. You guys. of course always. All right. So Caleb, let's throw up what's coming up here. We've got James Zimmerman, Laura Chen. That'll be very interesting. Cura Davis coming back.

Give us a little taste of how she's going to be. We have to leave that next week here, Davis will sit in on my behalf. We've got Salted Cracker coming back. J.P. Sears coming back. And of course, more yet to be lined up. Maybe you can call in. You can just like, yeah, fly on the wall.

Yeah. Like, Cure is quite capable. Believe me. You'll see. I'll introduce you to all on the 13th. And then a week later, she'll do the show. But I feel very good about the way 2026 is starting out for this show. We have had so many great guests.

We appreciate you guys being here. I hope you were as enthusiastic as I have been about what I've learned and who I've been speaking to. Thank you, Emily Barsh, for your hard work. She does an amazing job. Let me just look quickly at the restream and the Rumble Rance. What's the matter? I don't know. My mic is just like, meow.

It just won't stay up. All right, everybody. We've heard about Susan's mic. Now we can go. So we start talking about that. We are back on next Tuesday at 2 o'clock. We will see you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky.

Emily Barsh is our content producer. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational. purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving, though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know

is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800 273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at Dr.drew.com slash help.