Ask Dr. Drew - Dr. Robert Epstein: How Big Tech’s Weaponized AI Is Flipping Elections & Manipulating Your Mind w/ Dr. Paul Alexander – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 457

Episode Date: February 21, 2025

“Google has made themselves Sheriff of the internet,” says Dr. Robert Epstein, an expert on Internet manipulation. “It could break humanity.” Dr. Robert Epstein is a Senior Research Psychologist at the American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology and former editor-in-chief of Psychology Today. A Harvard Ph.D., he has testified before Congress on internet manipulation and developed the first nationwide system for analyzing Big Tech’s personalized content. He founded the Loebner Prize Competition in AI and has authored 15 books, including ‘Parsing the Turing Test.’ Find more at https://x.com/DrREpstein Dr. Paul Alexander is an epidemiologist and former WHO Consultant specializing in evidence-based medicine and research methodology. He served as Senior Advisor to the US Department of HHS for COVID-19 response in 2020. Dr. Alexander holds a PhD from McMaster University, master’s degrees from Oxford University and University of Toronto, and bioterrorism/biowarfare training from Johns Hopkins. He is the author of “Presidential Takedown” and a contributor at Brownstone Institute. Find more at https://drpaulalexander.com and https://palexander.substack.com 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A lot to get into today, including the tech overlords and the surveillance email system, the surveillance state. Excuse me. What is AI going to mean to all of us? Dr. Robert Epstein is here to discuss. He's a Harvard-trained psychologist. We are going to get into a lot of stuff today. I'm very interested in looking back over the last few years a little bit and getting a psychologist perspective. I'll give you the particulars on Dr. Epstein in a minute.

He's got an impeccable pedigree, and we'll discuss that. And, of course, Dr. Paul Alexander joins us as well. Dr. Alexander, you know well. He's an epidemiologist, former World Health Organization consultant. He has an extraordinary track record of training. And he was there when all the crazy things were going down and ridiculous things were invented. And you just heard a little tape of he and I predicting the future, strangely enough. So we'll get to all of this in just a minute. Stay with us. Our laws as it pertained to substances are this in just a minute. Stay with us. I'm just saying you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician I observe things about these chemicals, but just deal with those real and we used to get these calls on love line all the time

Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat you have trouble you can't stop and you might help stop it I can help I got a lot to say I got a lot more to say warning i've got this condition where i don't feel pain you're a superhero this is how intense nova kane sounds oh wow imagine how it looks yeah big time nova kane only in theaters march 14th i'm excited to bring you a new product a a new supplement, Fatty. I take it. I make Susan take it. My whole family takes it. This comes out of, believe it or not, dolphin research. The Navy maintains a fleet of dolphins, and a brilliant veterinarian recognized that these dolphins sometimes developed a syndrome identical to our Alzheimer's disease.

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also his Substack, which is palexander.substack.com. But first we are going to talk to Dr. Epstein. His new congressional testimonies available at epsteintestimony.com. We're going to hear a little bit about that. Also, he's going to talk about the new monitoring system. You can see a review of that at AmericasDigitalShield.com. And Dr. Epstein, guidance on email surveillance.

The article can be reviewed at Myprivacytips.com. Dr. Epstein, welcome to the program. It's my pleasure. Nice to see you again. Good to see you too. He and I were together 20 years ago back when he was editor-in-chief of the Psychology Today. In fact, as I remember, you pulled that magazine out of the mothballs.

Isn't that sort of how it went down? Pretty much. I tried to get it back to its academic roots and I had some luck, at least for four or five years. And now I think it's gone back in the other direction again, unfortunately. So how did you get involved in worrying about the tech overlords?

We've been on this program in Google or what do we call this? Maybe Google jail or YouTube jail a number of times because we dared to just ask certain questions. Caleb, how would you describe our censorship with YouTube without us incurring yet another transgression? Is there a way of describing it in your mind? The only word that comes to mind is unfair. Perhaps the word ridiculous comes to mind. Well, early on, we would dare to ask about early treatment

and certain medication, and we dared to just ask the question or talk to somebody who advocated for it. Lately, it's been just sort of unpopular ideas get us canceled. But in any event, how did you get interested in this, and what is the scope of the problem? Early 2012, I got nine messages from Google saying that my website had been hacked and that they were blocking access. I've been a programmer my whole life and I was very curious about a couple things. First of all, why was I being notified by Google who made them the sheriff of the internet, basically? Why wasn't a government agency letting me know or some non-profit? And secondly, I was wondering how

they were doing the blocking because they weren't just blocking me on Google.com. They were blocking me on Firefox, which is a browser that was developed by a, actually by a friend of mine, Brendan Eich, through the nonprofit organization called Mozilla. But Google was blocking me there. It was blocking me on Apple Safari. So I just started to get more interested in Google, which before that time I thought was just a great toy and providing some nice services. Over time, in fact, within a year from then,

I began to learn a lot of things about Google. They made a big mistake, big mistake by going after me. Because at this point, I've published 13 or 14 articles in peer reviewed journals, revealing the tremendous power they have to manipulate opinions, attitudes, beliefs, purchases, and votes by the millions. I have a monograph coming out in which I describe this new monitoring system that my organization has spent about almost $8 million building since 2016. That monitoring system is the first system in the world

that actually records the content, the real content that Google and other tech companies are sending to registered voters. So I'm hearing another voice here. Are you still hearing me okay? You loud and clear? We don't hear that voice. Okay, great. Are you still hearing me okay? You loud and clear? We don't hear that voice. Okay, great.

So the point is that we are now actually recording the real content, which internally at Google they the 2024 election to back off on some of its most powerful manipulations. collecting this data, which Google knew about, Trump could not have won this election. We prevented Google this time around from shifting between 5 and 10 million votes to Kamala Harris. Now, again, I'm not a Trump fan and I'm not a conservative, but I'd put it this way. I believe in this country and in our system of government more than I believe in any particular party or candidate. And without our monitoring system, Trump could not have won this election. Somebody was asking here over the Rumble side how Trump won. They're saying that you had been convinced that the ephemeral online experiences from those that he would lose and that you were having a meltdown over it on Joe Rogan. Yes. Well, that's true.

That's right. That's my word. And that was before the election because I was basically feeling like we had done all this work. We had, I mean, with tremendous with tremendous courage frankly on the part of the people I work with because there have been six violent attacks on me my close family members or my highest level staff members since we started doing this work uh and my own attacked you who attacked me I I don't know I mean, I don't know what you mean by that. Somebody with a gun, somebody with a pipe. I mean, what happened?

Well, in one case, my beautiful wife, her little pickup truck that I bought her was broadsided, and she was killed. That was the first of the six attacks so far uh one of my sons so when he when he was on his way the middle of the night to to one of our offices because the data had stopped flowing to our monitoring system he got broadsided by a black vehicle 11 o'clock at night right on the way to the office and that vehicle backed up and drove away at high speed. My managing director was downtown San Diego, two o'clock in the afternoon on a Saturday with her very, very handsome husband, who I was always jealous of. And a man came out of the crowd, pulled a knife, slit her husband's face from the ear all the way down to the mouth, all the way through, looked at my managing director,

Michelle, and laughed and ran away. Michelle lasted, I think, another month or two before she quit because the first thing that went through her head was Google. I mean, we have had warnings. I had a warning from an attorney general predicting that I was going to be killed in some sort of accident because of the research we're doing. Our team is the only research group in the world that has now for more than a dozen years been looking at new forms of manipulation that the internet has made possible. And we're the only group in the world that has built a system which collects massive amounts of data in a scientifically valid way, in a court admissible data. We're the only group that's done this to see the real content that these companies are sending to registered voters, to children, and to teens. We've now preserved more than 120 million of what Google calls ephemeral experiences. And by the way, I'm not making any of this stuff up, and I will give you a quick example.

In 2018, there was a leak of emails from Google to the Wall Street Journal, John McKinnon. You may have run across him. And in this article, McKinnon reports that these Google employees were discussing how can we use ephemeral experiences to change people's views about Trump's travel ban. So that's their own language. They know the power that they have and they exercise this power strategically. But in 2023, we built our first nationwide system. I was invited for the second time to testify before Congress to show them how this system works.

If any of your viewers want to go to americasdigitalshield.com, which you mentioned earlier, americasdigitalshield.com, you will see the data as the data are coming in. Now, this is real data coming right into the faces of American voters, children, and teens. And the point is that we are capturing this. We're capturing ephemeral content, which from Google's perspective is impossible. That's the whole point is that it's ephemeral content, which from Google's perspective is impossible. That's the whole point is that it's ephemeral. It appears like search results, search suggestions, YouTube recommendations.

It appears, it affects people, it disappears, and it's gone forever. It's not stored anywhere. We are capturing it. We are capturing it for the courts, and I'm working with attorneys general around the country, with members of Congress and others, some advocacy groups, children advocacy groups, election integrity groups, because this is how you stop these companies. You expose them. As Justice Brandeis said 100 years ago, sunlight is the best disinfectant, and that's what we're doing. We're not waiting for the laws or regulations because guess what? They're not coming. Because there's too much money being donated by Google, especially to politicians,

and there are no laws or regulations coming, and the ones that have been passed in the eu have not worked the tech companies google especially have just ignored them but when you monitor and you expose that's different that caused google in 2024 we know because we have all the data to show it, to back off for the first time. They backed off on some of their most powerful manipulations. I can give you a quick example. Four or five days before the election, we noticed that on Google's homepage, which is seen 500 million times a day in the US, Google was sending go vote reminders at 50% more to Democrats than to

Republicans. 50% more on Google's homepage. Now that alone can shift millions of votes because it gets people to vote who otherwise wouldn't vote. And that's been shown empirically. I mean, we know this positively. So we went public on October 31st and notified Google too, that we were capturing all of that content on their homepage. We were capturing it. And that's court admissible data. And on that night of October 31st, they stopped. And we have all the data to show that they stopped nationwide. In other words, from that point on, they sent out very few go vote reminders and they were sent them out equally to Democrats and Republicans, which is how things should be. So I know I'm just rambling on and you feel like interrupting me, but I'm very passionate about what we're doing. What we're doing is extremely important because it protects democracy and we must do this.

We must push the big tech companies out of our democracy, out of our elections and get them away from our kids. No, I didn't feel like interrupting you. In fact, I was absorbing what you had to say. And I'm remembering I had seen you on Joe Rogan's podcast and was sort of shocked and amazed. And here I am again. I have, I guess, a couple of questions. One is, do you know what happened during the pandemic,

what they did there? I mean, we have ridiculous. Yeah. So there's that one question. I know things about that that you don't know. Maybe you can tell me. Well, I'm sure I don't. The other thing is, what do you have a construct in your head about what hell is going on here?

In other words, aside from the data and the ephemeral manipulation that you're seeing, what the hell's going on at Google? Who's doing this? Why? So first, let's talk about the pandemic. I think that's the easier question. Well, the pandemic, I'm going to tell you some things

which are not going to sound real to you, but this is the actual truth. This is one of the things that was happening behind the scenes, which the public never knew about. So I was working with a member of Trump's coronavirus task force. And in March of 2020, when things started to really go crazy, I published an article, I think first in the Epoch Times, proposing a plan, which is now called the CSP, the Carrier Separation Plan, proposing that we just quickly test everyone. And then the carriers, they're the ones who go into quarantine for just a few weeks, just the carriers. That stops the spread if the R0, R0, which Dr. Alexander can tell you about, drops below one very rapidly because you're removing most of the carriers and therefore the pathogen can't spread.

And the task force was quite interested in this and was being taken very seriously. A speech was written for Trump to announce National Testing Day. This was all very serious stuff. And if that had been put in place and we had mailed out these cheap, somewhat inaccurate testing devices to every household in America. And then Trump had given his speech and he said, Melania is doing, we're all going to test on this day. And on this day, if you test positive, please, you quarantine. If you want to stay private, just stay private. But if you need some money for those three weeks or you need a hotel room, then you have to give up your privacy and we'll help you out. The point is, and on that same day, Trump was going to say in this speech, we will reopen society completely, the churches, the schools, the businesses, because what's happened is we've

removed most of the carriers. I published a number of articles on this. I talked about it on Tucker's show and Glenn Beck and was getting a lot of praise. And then everything went to hell. Do you know why? Because that summer, and this might have been Anthony, which doesn't work properly all the time. He got it into his head that he could get the vaccine out before the election. Someone put that idea in his head. And based on recently being on Bobby Kennedy's show, I'm reading Kennedy's book about Fauci. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't Fauci who put that idea in his head. And July 15th, I get an email from my contact on the task force saying, sorry, we've put aside your plan. Now, if that plan had been implemented, that would have saved more than 600,000 American lives. And it had the potential, I show this in a peer-reviewed journal that I published in January of 2021. It's at CarrierSeparationPlan.com.

They had the potential to completely eradicate the virus without a vaccine, without a vaccine, and without social distancing and lockdowns. It's a very, very sensible, common, sensible way to deal with this. And Trump, in my opinion, made a very, very bad call because that vaccine has very likely caused more trouble than it has solved, if it solved anything. And it never, we were, you said it it i heard you say it we were getting these promises we got to have the vaccine because that'll that'll eliminate the virus no no and they knew that they knew it would never eliminate the virus that it would create a permanent market like if they've created for the flu shot it'll create a permanent market for a multi-billion dollar product, period. Now, you asked about big tech's involvement in this.

Big tech was part of the problem because big tech was closely aligned with big pharma. Why? Because all big tech, or especially Google wants, is more data. And this pandemic got Google access to the medical files of perhaps 100 million or more Americans. And it just gave them access to data they had never had access to before. And it increased traffic because the lockdowns increased traffic by an enormous sum and the more traffic they have the more money they make so big tech was working side by side with big pharma to push all kinds of false narratives about the vaccine and about alternative treatments.

So 2019, by the way, was also, 2019 was a very bad year for me because that's the year my wife was killed. 2020 was a bad year for all of us. And it's largely because of big pharma and big tech. So what do we imagine is going on here? I always want to caution people not to imagine, you know, a mustache twirling, snidely whiplash in the background because it's not how it works.

But do you have a theory or do you have evidence of what is afoot other than follow the money, let's say? Or is it as simple as follow the money and that has adulterated the entire system on the Google side? Okay, well, the monetization, that is probably factor number one. I don't think we can rule that out. Follow the money is an old rule. It tends to work probably 90% of the time. But there are two other factors here, which most people are unaware of. One has to do with values. Google has, of course, they make a lot of money, of course. But they have another

priority, which most people don't know about. There was an eight-minute video that leaked from Google called The Selfish Ledger. If you look up my name online and look up The Selfish Ledger, you'll actually see an annotated transcript I've made of this incredible film. It was made by Google's Advanced Products Division. And it talks about the company's ability to re-engineer humanity according to, and this is right in it, it's right in the narration, according to Google's values. It was never meant to be seen outside the company. The point is Google was founded of utopians along the way, and they actually feel like they know better than everyone else does about how people should live and what they should believe. that are entirely controlled by them, that you cannot counteract, that you generally speaking cannot see, to control the thinking, beliefs, attitudes, emotions, votes of more than now 5 billion people around the world. They know they have that power and they exercise that power

deliberately and strategically, quite literally to spread their values. There's a third part of this too, which is very creepy. A lot of their initial funding came from our intelligence agencies, which I have to admit is legitimate because the intelligence agencies, the CIA, NSA, others, they understood a long time ago that if they could monitor people's Internet usage, that would be a good way to protect national security. Because if someone's trying to figure out how to build a bomb, they're going to go on the Internet. That's what's going to happen. So Google was founded in part because of that money and support from Intel. And the point is that relationship has continued very, very, very strongly for all of these years.

And they work with other intelligence agencies around the world. So sometimes when you can't figure out what they're doing, and it doesn't seem to be money related, it either has to do with values or it has to do with intelligence. Is that where the violent attacks came from, the three-letter agencies? And what do you imagine you were getting close to? Look, Drew, 2019 is when I first testified before Congress. President Trump tweeted very, very positively about my testimony. Hillary Clinton then replied to her 80 million Twitter followers that my work had been completely debunked, which is completely false. And I got cut off at that point from mainstream media. All my contacts, every single one, went down the tubes. Time Magazine, New York Times, you name it. Completely cut off at that point from mainstream media. All my contacts, every single one went down the

tubes, Time Magazine, New York Times, you name it, completely cut off since then. I also did that summer a private briefing for Ken Paxton, his AG of Texas, largest AG office in the country, and a bunch of other AGs at Stanford University. After my briefing, one of these AGs came out, came right up to me and said, Dr. Epstein, I don't mean to scare you. He said, but based on what you've told us, I predict you're going to be killed in some sort of accident within the next few months. You've mentioned that. Yeah. And I wasn't, but Misty, my beautiful wife, was. And those incidents have continued. So who is doing them? Well, it's not Google employees. It's someone making a phone call to a security firm and then they get someone else, you know, there's different levels. But the point is there have been six incidents now that are pretty scary, let me tell you. And I have the most amazing staff.

Is somebody attempting to protect you or to figure out where this is coming from or is it too layered? What's happening? Well, the work we do is very expensive. Monitoring is very expensive because we've recruited more than 16,000 registered voters, politically balanced, by the way, in all 50 states. That's expensive. And we pay them a token sum, just like the Nielsen company does to get the Nielsen ratings. They pay a token sum to thousands of families. We do the same thing,

but we're only paying them 25 bucks a month. But if you have 10,000, that's $250,000 a month. So to answer your question, we have no security. We are struggling day to day to get major funding and it's cost close to $8 million to get where we've gotten. And we've gotten quite far, but the point is we've never had full funding, never had the ability to do certain things. And security is one area where we've been very weak.

So it's utopianism meets the Clinton Foundation? Kind of, yeah. Yeah, it's utopianism meets massive amounts of funding, really almost unlimited power, a lot of which is just behind the scenes. And the tools, these new tools that have never existed before for changing people's thinking and behavior. And that's where, again, my research group, that's where we are the world's leading group. In fact, we're the only group in the world

that has been identifying, studying, and quantifying these new techniques. They all have names, search suggestion effects, opinion matching effect, and so on and so forth. And we publish in the top peer-reviewed journals that there are. But we're the only ones because everyone is either getting money from Google or they're scared to death. And I don't blame them. What are the techniques? They sound rather subtle. Well, some are subtle and some are not. Now, for example, when they did targeted messaging on those days before the election and then we got them to stop, that was kind of subtle because if you're getting a go vote reminder, you don't know that your neighbor is not getting a go vote reminder. So it's only a monitoring system that can document that,

that they're doing this in a targeted fashion. That's called the targeted messaging effect. We've quantified it. We know exactly how powerful it is, but that's less subtle, believe it or not, than most of these techniques. Most of them involve, for example, on YouTube, showing you recommendations. And at the top, the one that plays automatically, if you don't do anything, that's the up next video. And that used to be labeled that way. And you could easily stop it, turn it off, and then they got rid of the label.

But the point is that that sequence that they're showing you can produce enormous shifts. And for people who are undecided, I should be clear, for people who are undecided, just by exposing them to a sequence of videos, they can easily push 40 to 60% of undecided voters. Now, those numbers shocked me when we started doing these studies and we were getting numbers that big. I thought we'd get shifts of 2% or 3%.

We're getting shifts of 40% to 60% or more with techniques that no one's ever even heard of and that you cannot see. How would you know? How would you know that that sequence of videos that they're recommending, how would you know that they have a very particular bias and that that has been personalized? That list is personalized for you based on the massive surveillance they have been conducting on you. If you've been on the Internet for 20 years, they have more than 3 million pages of information about you. So when they are manipulating you, believe me, they're doing it in a very, very optimal fashion, or I should say optimized fashion.

This is scary stuff. Yeah, I get it, I get it. I get it. Is, is the Trump administration taking aim at this at all? Is there anyone that has the power? Is the new justice department going after it? Is there anything to,

you know, I was afraid you were going to ask me that question. No, I got it. And I was afraid you were going to ask me that question because I, uh, you know, a few weeks ago I would have said,

I mean, that last bit on Rogan when I was so fed up and so on and having a meltdown was because at that point in time, I felt like there's just nothing we can do here. These companies are just going to do whatever they want, and they're going to ignore everybody and so on. Then I was shocked to find that we actually did get Google to back down in multiple ways, which ended up giving Trump a lot of votes. So I'm thinking, okay, I'm not a big fan of Trump, but still maybe he will go after them very aggressively. What happens then? The head of Google calls up Trump before the election and makes nice and then calls him up afterwards and then donates a million dollars to the inauguration. All the tech companies immediately just lined up

to serve Trump and he loves loyalty and they've all just lined up and then Google changed the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America and Google has gone along with all of these geographical renamings that Trump was demanding Google is going along with everything in other words the these companies are just playing that game that they play so well. They're the biggest influencers in Washington, D.C., and the fact, or I should say lobbyists, and they're just now doing this with Trump himself. And I think Trump is just going to leave them alone, and their power is just going to grow and grow and grow. Let me tell you that the search engine itself,

I can tell you without any doubt, is the most powerful mind control machine that has ever been invented. And people cannot see that they're being manipulated by search suggestions, answer boxes, search results, and so on. That we've shown in controlled experiments, for example, that just by manipulating search suggestions that flash at you when you're typing a search term, we can turn a 50-50

split among undecided voters into a 90-10 split with no one having the slightest idea that they have been manipulated. Can you stick around while I bring in Dr. Alexander? Are you available to stay for the rest of the hour? Okay, I appreciate it. For you, anything's fine. That's very kind. But I think Dr. Alexander has some ideas too

about what's going on, having been in the belly of the beast a bit. So I appreciate you being here. Where do you want people to go? We've got you on X, Dr. Epstein, is that Epstein? I beg your pardon.

ES, it's E-P-S-T-E-I-N, D-R-E-P-E-S-T-E-I-N. Pronounce Epstein. Dr. R. Epstein. There's an R, like D-R-R-E-P-S-T-E-I-N. There it is, the extra R. That's there's an R there it is there is how my brain works

there's the second R I couldn't see so yeah Dr. R. Epstein go there, anybody else you'd like us to be sending people, speaking of manipulating audiences well America's digital shield, because I'm tremendously proud of that, that we were able with all of the

pressure on us, we were able to successfully build the world's first nationwide monitoring system. So please take a look at that. There's a place there where you can sponsor our field agents, which is, again, we only pay them a token fee, $25 a month, but it adds up. So we're going to need patriotic Americans, tens of thousands, on an ongoing basis to sponsor these field agents. We can't take volunteers, we've learned. Because if we take volunteers, Google has more than 120,000 outside consultants. Google sends us people, and we get bad data. So we have to actually, yeah, we have to go practically door to door finding real voters.

It's, you know, it's labor intensive and expensive and we need people's help to continue our work. Wow. Dr. Robert Epstein, we will return right after this. Well, you've heard me praise Paleo Valley's grass-fed finished beef bone broth and the delicious meat sticks. I now want to turn it over to Paleo Valley founder and CEO Autumn Smith to tell you about her company's food philosophy. I'm here to help create the products that make healthy food convenient in our modern world. The diet and the food you're consuming is absolutely related to your digestive health, to your mental health, to every aspect of your health. The devil's in the details here. And not only do we have to attend to every single ingredient,

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Save up to 40% off everything. Visit cbdistillery.com. Enter code RUMBLE. That is cbdistillery, one word, cbdistillery.com. Code is RUMBLE. All right, we've been talking to Dr. Epstein. We're going to bring in Dr. Paul Alexander now. He was, of course, trained as an epidemiologist

by some of the finest institutions in the world. He was off in the rooms when some of the decisions were made during the pandemic. He's been regular on this show and has been sharing with us many of the experience, things he witnessed. You can follow him at

drpaulalexander.com and healexander.subsec.com. Paul, great to see you. Good to see you, Dr. Drew. Thank you very much for having me and Dr. Epstein. So we're going to get Dr. Epstein in here in just a second,

but I just wanted two things really quickly. One was we had a little tape rolled in of you and I having a conversation about a year ago where we strangely predicted the future. There was a lot in that tape. I don't know if you saw it, where I was thinking, man, we were right. Oh my goodness. But is the other thing. That was the moment that one of the many light bulbs in my head went off as a result of the pandemic. You explained how our democracy had been replaced by a bureaucracy and people who thought you were part of that bureaucracy

brought you in and said, oh, these elected officials, they're just here for a little while. We run the government. We, the bureaucrats. That was so shocking to me. I didn't get over it, but it's been reconfirmed again and again.

Yes. And what I think, I think with President Trump's second administration now, you are seeing the move by, by those, must get out that team to trim the bureaucracy and to close certain things that really and truly the government can potentially run without because the only question is that we we want things done in a way that doesn't harm

the country and doesn't hurt people because at the end of the day and I'll tell you when you're there you get to really understand like like, just to remind you, you know, when I was at HHS, that same position that, um, Robert Kennedy Jr. has just been confirmed for, that was a position that I advised. So Alex is, uh, and, um, so the secretary of health and human services and the assistant secretary. And, um, so I had a good look inside and, um, the reality about it is that when you are there, you get to understand what the deep state is, for example, in that building at HHS where Kennedy is going to be now, there were a few thousand employees coming down on all day, but during COVID it was basically shut down.

But so you understood all of the, HHS is the umbrella agency and all of the agencies report to HHS. So CDC, FDA, NIH, NIAID, et cetera. They may have locations outside of Washington, like CDC headquarters in Atlanta, in Virginia, FDA, et cetera, Maryland, but they all report into Washington. Now, the reality about it is that on any given day when we would go into the building at HHS, they would have basically no employees outside of President Trump's pandemic response group. And everybody was working from home.

And those that did come into the building, they would be very clear with me that, because you guys, you work for President Trump, you were appointed by President Trump, we're not going to do anything to help you. We're not even going to help you turn on the photocopier, so to speak. We will not provide you any support. And you guys are basically on your own. And it was such. It was a really

difficult period because you got to see that they mostly worked on a day-to-day basis to subvert Trump. And I saw it. I experienced it. And it was real. And it's a remarkable thing. Dr. Alexander, I'm going to interrupt you. Did you hear Dr. Epstein's theory or his experience working on the COVID response team where they were planning massive testing on one given day

of the entire country and then isolation of carriers? And then that was suddenly undermined. Let me bring Dr. Epstein in. Dr. Epstein, maybe tell Dr. Alexander one more time, kind of review what happened there. Sure. First of all, anyone who wants some details can go right to CarrierSeparationPlan.com, CarrierSeparationPlan.com, or NationalTestingday.com.

And that's what President Trump was going to be announcing to the country in the summer of 2020. Backed off because he was told that he could get the vaccine out before the election, and that would guarantee him the win. So I was informed of that by my contact on his coronavirus task force on July 15th. But that plan is still a viable plan to protect any country in the world from the devastation of a serious pathogen. And so we're still working on it. Yeah. And I'm saying that that was a possibility. That was a good possibility back in 2020. When I talked about this on Bobby Kennedy's show recently, he said, I wish I had known about it at the time because he would have been the perfect person, of course, to really make it more visible to people. Likewise, I wish.

I'm wondering if Dr. Alexander had any inside information or experience with that plan. What happened to it? Well, no, I, you know, listen to Dr. Epstein. I'm hearing actually more of it. I mean, we were fighting Fauci and Birx in a different way. You know, we were dealing with them in terms of the issue around asymptomatic spread, the issue of the cycle count threshold of the COVID test, trying to figure out what is the optimal threshold. So there were so many moving parts,

but I think the most important, the eye-opening part to me is that when Dr. Birks wrote in her book and she stated in interviews that people like myself she loathed and she detested and that um they worked she worked her team worked on the cut president trump literally she said it and um and slow walk data, subvert the response. And my view has always been, you know, whether this was a legitimate issue, whether the pandemic response was proper, whether the lockdowns were what we needed. The problem I had was that all of these people reported to the executive and to the federal government, yet they weren't in line with president

Trump. And I think now everyone is waking up to the fact that he has a second goal at this situation and, um, he's going to try and write it. The problem is that, that it's such a massive bureaucracy and, um, he is, you know, what we're seeing right now is the truth. The Democrats, I mean, I don't want to get into what was your politics or mine. Both sides do the same thing. They look at the three levels of government, the three branches, and wherever they have power, they will rule. So the Democrats woke up to realize, well, okay, we don't have the White House and we don't have the legislative branch.

Even though they're down by one in the House and three in the Senate, they don't have the power. But they do have the courts, the judicial branch. They have reached there. So they are going to tort Trump. We are going to experience four years of this. They are going to file law cases, suits for every single thing he does. And they did this in his first term. And we really had a lot of problems with that.

So I'd be interested to see how they move this time. I don't know. There are a lot of tools available, such as if judges are ruling just on a political partisan basis you could impeach them or try to impeach them etc etc because president trump really has two years in the sense of this i think after the first term there is a strong chance that the democrats could regain control of the House because they're only down by one. So that is something that the Republicans need to consider. So President Trump really has two years, not four.

And, you know, he has to get a lot done. A lot of the executive orders, too, my understanding is that he has to codify them into law because if you don't another president etc. will reverse that. So we need the president to go to

Congress. So it's a lot of work to be done. I mean it's happening so blindingly fast, a lot of stuff and it actually is confusing at times you can't even keep up. You wake up in the morning and say, okay, but what is President Trump and they going to do today? And you just don't know how to catch your breath.

To that point, Dr. Alexander, I want to ask Dr. Epstein, has the Doge team been of any use to you, or might they be of use to you, do you think? That is so funny that you ask that because I knew it was just a matter of time before somebody reaches out to me from the new administration. I knew that. And I just got contacted a couple of days ago by someone from the Doge team. So that's so interesting that you predicted that. And I'm trying to figure out what to do here because I, you know, I have to keep focusing on the scientific work and the building, you know,

and expanding the monitoring system. And I think I need to stay away from the bureaucrats, you know, of all sorts. And I think I need to stay away from the bureaucrats of all sorts. And I think I need to stay away. They could fund you and give you some manpower to expand your data collection. But then again, you never know. Maybe Google sent them. As I said, I'm thinking about it. I knew that they would reach out at some point, and they just did.

And at the moment, I'm thinking I need to stay away from them. You know, it's easy to get distracted. Yeah. I have a psychology question for you. Sure. Is there something about us in our present moment of history that makes us particularly prone to these hysterias and these manipulations and these mass formations that you use a coined term? Do you have a theory about that or do you just stay with the data? Well, a lot of people have been studying that issue.

That's not my main area of study, but a lot of people have been studying that issue. That's not my main area of study, but a lot of people have been studying that issue. And the fact is that people are easy to manipulate. And we have some very powerful means of manipulation that are overwhelming, I think, this country right now, and that are unfortunately setting one American against the other, which George Washington, by the way, was very, very scared that that would happen. He was totally opposed to the two-party system. So was John Adams. Thomas Jefferson said, if the only way I could get to heaven would be to join a party,

I wouldn't go. So we have mechanisms in place right now, including a very charismatic president who has a big effect on people, and including these tech companies who, generally speaking, have tried to undo Trump. But now they seem to be shifting over to get in his good graces. And that is really frightening if you think about it. If the tech companies are working with the administration, then there's no one to regulate or to constrain the tech companies. If you're not killing these people, then who is? That's what I want to know. Starring Kaley Cuoco and Chris Messina. The only investigating I'm doing these days is we poop their pants. Killer messaged you yesterday?

This is so dangerous. I got to get out of this. Based on a true story. New season Mondays only on W. Stream live and on demand on Stack TV. Yeah, it's sort of a stupendous thing. Paul, go ahead. Well, yeah, what Dr. Epstein just said is so true, but you could even extend it further.

There's no one to regulate or constrain the executive because remember, our founding fathers set us up this way. And for example, I worked for President Trump because, well, let me just say something because Dr. Epstein said something earlier and I want to echo same. I have been in full disclosure, of course, in discussions with people in the administration and with the Maha group. And I have been in discussions with Robert, Bobby Kennedy, and even up to recently. So let's see where that goes.

You know, we go back and forth. Congratulations. He's somebody that I, that I support. And, you know, we all have our different strengths.

He's a lawyer by training, but he's also a smart guy and he reads a lot. He wants to understand things. So if he assembles the right people around him, so I have made it known that, listen, I will serve, I'll help any which way I can. And that's number one. Number two, the founding fathers set up America with the executive branch, the legislative and the judicial branch, co-equal branches, but they have to have checks on each other. And I have a problem. I like the fact that, as Dr. Epstein just said,

the tech companies have lurched right in support of President Trump or working with him. Let's use that word. But you and I know that that's because they fear the wrath of some kind of legislation coming down against them, breaking them up. Right. They're worried about that for sure. But I'm thinking, as I hear you guys talking, I think, you know, and Dr. Epstein, you talked about the manipulation tools. I mean, first we had rhetoric, and then we had newspapers, and then we had television. And these kinds of conversations we're having, and radio, these kinds of conversations we're having have been had as each one of the...

I mean, this technology, Martin Luther was having this conversation when the printing press came around. I mean, each time technology lurches forward, there's worries about how people are being manipulated by these technologies. And to me, it feels like the reason they're moving right is what Abraham Lincoln called the public mind. They sort of move that way, and they're just going with their audience, much like a television station would as their audience shifts. I don't think it, I mean, of course, they probably have ideas about what to do

with the executive. But tell me, Dr. Epstein, to the extent to which my little construct doesn't go far enough in describing our present moment. Yeah, well, what's happening now is different, unfortunately. That has never happened before in history. For one thing, Google alone is not just influencing people in the U.S., but around the world.

So that's never happened before. No dictator, J. Edgar Hoover, whoever it is, the Stasi, whoever it is who are control freaks, they've never had that kind of influence, influencing literally almost everyone in the world outside of mainland China. I mean, that's a lot of people. So that's new. The other thing that's new is these new techniques have never existed before. They've been made possible by the internet. The internet has only been around for 20 years and they've only figured out how to use it to

manipulate on a massive scale in maybe the last 10 to 12 years. And so this is different. The other thing is you can't counteract what they're doing. If you, Dr. Pinsky, if you buy a billboard to support your candidate, I can buy one across the street. I can buy two. People can see billboards, they can see commercials, but you cannot see bias in search results or bias in search suggestions or bias in news feeds or bias in YouTube suggestions or on and on and on. All these things that we study, they're invisible to people and it gets worse. It turns out that the very few people who can spot the manipulation,

who can spot the bias, because we've done very big studies, so we can find a few people, they shift even farther in the direction of the bias because they think this is coming from a computer, so it must be impartial and objective because they don't see the human element. They just think it's coming from a computer

and therefore it must be true. So I'm going to let you go in just a second and finish up with Dr. Alexander, but what, what is to be done other than to check out your websites? What, what, what is the, what is the plan? And then what do you want us to do? Please, anyone who's out there who can help us, you know, help support the systems we're building,

please go to americasdigitalshield.com. If you want to improve your own privacy and stop these companies from surveilling you, go to myprivacytips.com. And that's an article of mine, which I update from time to time, which begins with the sentence, I have not received a targeted ad

on my mobile phone or computer since 2014. So that's myprivacytips.com. I recommend that very highly. And if you're interested in a non-vaccine solution to the coronavirus pandemic, which was being seriously considered by Trump's coronavirus task force, please go to Carrier Separation Plan, CarrierSeparationPlan.com or NationalTestingDay.com. And, you know, Drew, really, you're one of the people I admire most. And I'm so grateful that you've invited me to be on your show. And you're asking big questions. And notice I'm kind of avoiding them because these questions are on my mind 24 hours a day.

And the fact is we're up against some powers that are enormous and unprecedented. And it's hard to know. I feel like one of the things we can do, one of the things we can do is bring you back regularly to sort of update or remind people and that kind of thing. And I guess my last question before i let you go is are you working on or do you have a sense of how the individual can inoculate themselves stay with the vaccine analogy uh or do mass testing to see what our what our proclivities are uh to protect each individual from the effects of these phenomena.

Well, again, myprivacytips.com, that's a very good place to go because you can learn how to protect yourself and your family. You want to start there. Start with yourself. Don't let them do what they're doing. Can I inoculate my psychology, my brain, in case they get through? Is there things I can be doing, practicing, best practices or something that will protect my biological system from this onslaught? These techniques are so subtle. They're subliminal. They're so incredibly sleazy. In a way, they're

kind of obscene because they have such an enormous impact on people and people cannot see what's going on. And as I just told you, the few people who can tend to shift even farther in the direction of that manipulation. So we, as I say, we're up against some unprecedented forces here, and I wish I could tell you there's a way to, you know, be skeptical. How's that? You know, double-check everything. Fair enough. What are the websites

again? Sure. I guess we should put them up. Susan's writing them down. Okay, AmericasDigitalShield.com, MyPrivacyTips.com, CarrierSeparationPlan.com, MyPrivacyTips.com. MyPrivacyTips. Oh, MyPrivacyTips. MyPrivacyTips.com, AmericasDigitalShield.com, and CarrierSeparationhield.com and carrierseparationplan.com

and thank you guys so much it's great to see you again you look like you haven't aged even a day well I made a deal with the devil but no I'm doing the things you're supposed to do to reduce aging effects so that's my my jam america shield.com and it said my phone had been hacked

america's with an s digital shield.com i went to america shield digital shield i know and it said my phone had been hacked okay Okay. So it's America Digital. America's Digital. No, America's with an S. America's with an S. I'm going to put all the links up on the website as well. So if anyone, especially if you're listening on the podcast, you'll be able to see it. It's at drdrew.com slash 2182025.

Okay. And Dr. Epstein, we'll let you go, and I will have you back again soon. And if there's any breakthroughs or there's anything you need to get to the people about, please, please call on us, and we'll throw you on the air, okay? Thank you so much. And Dr. Alexander, it was an honor to meet you, sir. I hope we have some further contact.

Yes. Thank you very much, too. Same. So, Dr. Alexander, let's get back to you. I know we have your, we have camera problems, but I wonder if you have any reaction to what he was saying and sort of, it's

almost too much, you know, all this. What you have alerted me to that goes on in the belly of the beast and now it's the manipulations of our mind. What do we do? Well, I mean, look, Dr. Epstein was talking about how you can take care of yourself, etc. And I think that, you know, it's not that what I mean.

I also provide technical support to TWC, but people like McCullough and Reese yourself. So I just wanted to full disclosure because I think it's a really good company and uh some of the products that they produce and the philosophy etc so i wanted to say that twc.health but the thing about it is that what he's trying to say i think is our is is our freedom and our decision making to take care of ourselves personally and we can't look to to Washington or to a government official or to even some medical person to really make the decisions for you and your own family. Because there's so much information there in the internet as is, and the general population is so informed.

A lot of critical thinking too. But often when we go to see a doctor doctor we already read so much and we understand actually what our problem is even more than the clinician so i think what he's trying to say is uh you know there are a lot of steps so even from from our own world now our argument is against is when i say against the shot first move, using things like nasal oral washes, rinses, to keep the nasal cavity clean out of any kind of pathogen, healthy sleeping, eating good diet, decent protein for immune system.

And I think this is the thing, make reasonable common sense precaution decisions. So, for example, like when we talked about no lockdowns were needed and that we wanted to strongly protect the vulnerable, people would always say, well, okay, but tell us what you mean by strongly protect. And it always stumped me every time somebody asked me that in a meeting, and I'd say, well, but it but tell us what you mean by strongly protect. And it always stumped me every time somebody asked me that in a meeting. And I say, well, but it's just common sense, you know. If your mother is living with you in your home and your mother is elderly,

we know the immune system declines with age. If you have a lot of young kids, grandkids in your home and stuff, especially if there's something circulating in the environment, it is a bad flu season, et cetera. Don't let Johnny come off of the street and just jump on granny's lap and et cetera. You know,

you have to, you have to make decisions to that is reasonable and, um, and, and, and to protect the people in, in your orbit. And,

uh, I think there are a lot of good things out there, you know. There's a lot of things TWC says. Paul, let me ask something. Let me ask something. Again, you were the first person to alert me to the fact that we lost our democracy to a bureaucracy. How long do you think we have lost the founding principles of this country? I mean, how long

have we, I'm starting to worry that the intelligence agencies and other forces at work in the government that we've been talking about have really been in control for a long time. And that our connection to the founding principles that we should all want and that we all thought we were living in may have been absent for quite some time. Do you have a theory about that? Yeah, well, I mean, if you look at like your lifespan and my lifespan, et cetera, so we could probably go back to when we were kids into the era when John Kennedy was just killed, et cetera. So that's, that's the kind of history we have an immediate grasp on Kennedy and the Vince Johnson, um, Carter and Gerald Ford and all these people, Reagan. So we have that grasp and, um, it's almost like you can see over time that,

um, and I began to follow United States politics, even though when I was a young kid, I grew up in the Caribbean. When we got cable and stuff for the first time, I was really fascinated by America. And I wanted to learn everything I could. So I would, and CNN had just started, I think in 1983 or something like that. So I was listening to everything and just trying to read. And you got the sense that the federal government of the United States actually was like an entity of its own. And I think maybe for the last 40, 50 years, we've lost control of the government.

And it's so much of money involved. It's so much of power and so many games. And I don't know your background in terms of if you worked in D.C., but because I spent some time there, you get to realize it's just a purely political situation and the whole place turns on two things it turns on on leaking and scandal and and the issue is when you wake up in the morning who's going to leak something first and then the balance of your day is how you're going to leak something to counteract that leak and that's how dc works so i think i think trump was purely overwhelmed in in term one in the sense that he didn't know

how to like his head was probably on us on a swivel on a day-to-day basis. And, and, and as importantly though, Dr. True is those decisions to bring those people into DC and to bring those people into orbit, President Trump knows that a lot of the people around him right now in term two, fundamentally, he can't trust them entirely. But you see, here's the problem. It's like you. If you came to work one day and you had 1,000 people working for you, you can't manage 1,000 people on data.

You could probably manage two people. You have to delegate responsibility and authority. That's how the government works. The president delegates the responsibility down. So all those lower- level positions, even high positions and going all the way down, those people often, once they get into government, you begin to think about what can you do to benefit yourself, your family, your friends, etc. And the interest and the work for the public is gone.

And that's the problem. And the problem is how can you get the right people around you when generally that is a human condition? I mean, can you imagine you normally working for a job paying you maybe even a high-level job, 90 or 100 grand a year. And all of a sudden, you get into a position of authority in the U.S. government, and you have some control over hiring people, some control over some budgets,

et cetera, et cetera. I mean, take, for instance, somebody like AOC. We are being told, if we understand the reporting, that today she's worth $20 million if she declares her stuff. This person went into government as a young person. I'm not discussing her politics and I'm not against her. I'm just talking. A young person four or five years ago probably would $60,000 on paper. how do you go with a with a government salary to that kind of wealth of course is because most of them in the congress and the senate

we're there making deals with each other and and people get enriched i'm not even commenting how she got enriched i'm just saying all of them. And that's the problem. Money is at the root of it. Power is at the root of it. And it seems that the more money they make, it's the more money that they want. And, um,

you have somebody like a Trump will come along from the person that I know. And from what I know, Trump is a good guy. Trump has his nation at heart, the flag at heart, the military. He does the constitution. His personality is unique. It's different. We all probably, if I knew you outside of this setting, you would have a very interesting personality. Me too.

We'd be fascinated even. That's the way it is. Trump has his own personality. It offends people. Some people like it. Whatever. Point is, he's not a bad man. And I think in this second term,

we have a chance, if he really gets the right people around him to make really positive things for America. because as i said after two years he probably wouldn't have control anymore and look i want to be honest with you about this i'm talking about bob carey liberals jim webb liberals these kinds of people who served in the military, loved the country when you hear them in testimony you realize these people love the flag respect the anthem etc. I'm not talking

about the extremist left nor am I talking about the extreme right because even on the extreme right we have nutcases, extreme wacko people that I want nothing to do with. Don't want to have to do with people on the extreme left. Thing is, if you showed me a liberal,

someone on the left who identifies as a liberal, but they want the country successful, working for America, respects the flag and the anthem, our police, law and order, and all of these things, I would help get them elected. That's the issue. It's not about I am a conservative or whatever. I don't even want

to identify like that. I just want the best person, the best people, because we have children and grandchildren, and we're going to leave this world shortly. That's the thing, and we want to leave the world in a way that our children have a good chance when we're not here to protect them, that they can make a life. That's what this fight is

for. That's it. Well, Paul, I appreciate you coming in. I want to talk to you again soon. You were sort of hinting that I'm going to come visit you in Washington. You're sort of hinting at that. So I promise you I will come visit. If that's in fact what happens, I certainly hope it is so. But I like you. I'm very enthusiastic. Go ahead.

Yeah, I'm in discussions with Robert Kennedy. And we'll be talking about different things. And he's somebody that I admire. And I will help. I will support him. So if it works out, then I will play my role. And of course, we're going to bring you to Washington. Of course.

Well, I just want to come visit. What I want is I want to, I know so many people in this administration now, I want to see their point of view. I want to know what, much like you shared with me your stories about the State Department, bureaucrats, I want to know more about what it looks like when you get into positions and start trying to do good. Paul, appreciate it. Where do you want people to go to find you? You could, look, make it simple.

People could just go to Google and type in Alexander COVID News Substack. That's it. Alexander COVID News sub stack. That's it. Alexander COVID news sub stack. I have this sub stack right now running for free. So no, no difference between paid or free. And if you want to, you could also go to Zelle.

If you want to help in any way. And the email is SR7283 at gmail.com. And can I, could I say one thing, Dr. Drew, which is I'm a huge supporter of the wellness company because we are there. And I want to urge people to go to the website, twc.health. I know you also have some connections there. Yes. And take a look. And, you know, it's your decision. But Dr. Drew mentioned.

The idea is empower the patients, get things into the hands of people and patients. We've been through a very serious time when our liberties were highly constrained and in many, so many different ways that I hadn't even imagined were possible. Now they were top of mind. And so that's what TWC is about.

It's about the freedom to get access. Susan loves this field kit that we've been using some of the products from. It's got everything in it. Yes. Go ahead. What?

You look at it as a patriot company. That's the philosophy. And now we have this kind of patriot type economy. That's the philosophy. And now we have this kind of patriot type economy. That's the mindset today. So that's why. But listen, people have the right to choose

where they want to go and just take care of their health. That's the whole idea. That's the whole idea is to give you access and freedom to do so. All right,

Dr. Paul Alexander, we appreciate you being here. I'll talk to you again soon. If not here in Washington, I promise. I'm knocking on your damn door. At the Wellness Company. All right, buddy, talk to you soon. At the Wellness Company,

they also have supplements. They have all kinds of kits. Well, there's a bigger story here, which I'm going to, I'm working. Telemedicine. No, no. Yes, telemedicine. But I'm working with the Wellness yes i have telemedicine but i'm working with

the wellness company and setting up a store of ours where there will be a lot of different things that i think people i i this is sort of my in part of the my store will be longevity but some of it also is going to be access to the kinds of things that i wish people had access to back in the loveline days right but it could have made a difference for those people. We have an STD kit. Those kinds of things. We have a kit for women and also we have hair growing treatments. STD prevention kit is what

I'm interested in. I mean, it's going to be it's all encompassing. Is it up yet? Is the store up yet? I don't think it's up yet. We'll get there. And you'll find all our other products there like, you know, from V Shred and from from our other companies that we're working side by side with yeah paleo valley but it honestly this is the best company ever the wellness company and drew's on the board but you know we're not you know it's not a huge endorsement we're actually

partners with them and we really really, really appreciate this. What I've told the leadership there is they proved to be everything they said they were, which I can rarely say that about people and companies. So they were certainly that. And they come from the family who have the fleet of airplanes that put out the fires in Southern California.

That's correct. So when you see the plane go over, that's our CEO's father and that's the company he was raised in and he used to be a part of it. So he's been putting out fires in people's lives for a really long time. Super neat people.

So Caleb, I want to throw up some upcoming dates here and who's coming. I think, is it Robbie Starbuck tomorrow? I think that's true. And yeah. And let's see. Whistleblower, Luke Rudowsky. I think I have a show tomorrow.

We're working on it. Okay. Congresswoman. We want to talk about Wendy Williams. Michael Franzisi, I think is his friend. I did his podcast. He's a very interesting dude. He was just talking to Bill Maher about some of the stuff he's been involved with. So there's our list.

Stay with it. We'll be from New York next week. We will be here tomorrow, but away on Thursday. And we'll see you tomorrow. Susan, are you at noon or am I at noon? I'm at noon tomorrow, if I can get a guess. And then I'm at three. Yes?

Yeah. I think I'm at noon tomorrow. We'll see you then. We then I'm at three. Yes. Yeah. I think I'm at noon. We'll see you then. Thank you. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information

that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.