Ask Dr. Drew - Duty To Disobey: Army Major Says Masking Violates Commandment Against Lying & He Refuses “All Orders To Wear One” w/ Dr. Paul E. Alexander & MAJ Dr. Philip Buckler DDS – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 358

Episode Date: May 18, 2024

“To my knowledge, I am the first Soldier in the world to make a public stand refusing compulsory masking,” writes Dr. Philip Buckler, a dentist in the US Army holding the rank of Major. Drawing on extensive research from Dr. Paul E. Alexander, Dr. Buckler published his findings about the ineffectiveness of masks for a respiratory pandemic in “The Book on Masks“. In January 2022, MAJ Buckler informed his commanding officer in the US Army that he would “cease wearing a mask and refuse all orders to wear one” due to sincerely-held religious beliefs – specifically that by wearing a mask for COVID-19 that he knew could not prevent infection, he would be violating the Commandment against lying and complicit in a “performative religion” of Public Health. Dr. Paul E. Alexander holds a PhD and has graduate level training in epidemiology and work experience in epidemiology, teaching of clinical epidemiology, evidence-based medicine, and research methodology. He is a former Assistant Professor at McMaster University (Hamilton, Canada) in evidence-based medicine and research methods; former COVID Pandemic evidence-synthesis consultant advisor to WHO Geneva-PAHO Washington, DC (2020) and former senior advisor to COVID Pandemic policy in Health and Human Services. Follow Dr. Alexander at https://DrPaulAlexander.com Dr. Philip Buckler, DDS, is the author of “The Book on Masks: Your Comprehensive Guide to the Manipulative Psychology, Malformed Philosophy, and Misrepresented Science that Supercharged a Global Hysteria” available at https://amzn.to/3JZpdqJ. He is a dentist in the US Army, holding the rank of Major. Find more from Dr. Buckler at https://realmaskscience.com 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • COZY EARTH - Susan and Drew love Cozy Earth's sheets & clothing made with super-soft viscose from bamboo! Use code DREW to save up to 30% at https://drdrew.com/cozy • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • TRU NIAGEN - For almost a decade, Dr. Drew has been taking a healthy-aging supplement called Tru Niagen, which uses a patented form of Nicotinamide Riboside to boost NAD levels. Use code DREW for 20% off at https://drdrew.com/truniagen • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician with over 35 years of national radio, NYT bestselling books, and countless TV shows bearing his name. He's known for Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Teen Mom OG (MTV), The Masked Singer (FOX), multiple hit podcasts, and the iconic Loveline radio show. Dr. Drew Pinsky received his undergraduate degree from Amherst College and his M.D. from the University of Southern California, School of Medicine. Read more at https://drdrew.com/about Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, today should be another fascinating program. Dr. Paul Alexander comes back again. Of course, Dr. Alexander, let me read you a little of his CV. It's not in front of me at the moment, but he, of course, his book is Presidential Takedown. Anthony Fauci, the CDC NIH, the World Health Organization, conspired to overthrow President Trump. We're going to have Dr. Alexander back. As I said, he is a PhD training in epidemiology and experience at the McMaster's Institute where he was an assistant professor. And you'll hear the importance of that training and that experience. We'll be joined by Dr.

Philip Buckner. He's the author of the book on mass, Dr. Alexander and Dr. Buckler. Buckler got together on this. Seriously, I mean, I don't know how more extensively researched and resourced a book can be as this. So we'll get into all that and more right after we'll break. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction,

fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people.

I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent

and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want help, stop it. all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. Well, Mother's Day is upon us and GenuCell's Mother's Day sale has arrived as well. Perfect timing because Susan and I have upgraded our bundles with even more of our favorite skincare products now for over 50% off. We've been working with GenuCell for almost two years. And because GenuCell makes really the best skincare products in the world, you'll see. In fact, you can see how my skin corrected and repaired in this moment from the show live on our stream.

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and then we'll be joined by Dr. Buckler. Let me tell you about Dr. Buckler a little bit. He's a U.S. Army major. He's a dentist, and he refused to mask because he knew it couldn't prevent COVID. And now he's written the ultimate book, Comprehensive Guide. Clearly there's a point of view of the book. There's a lot in that book. Let me read you the- It is loaded. The subtitle is The Manipulative Psychology, Malformed Philosophy, and Misrepresented Science That Supercharged a global hysteria. So it's all there. And I don't disagree with any of that. So we'll see if we can make that digestible for everybody today.

And of course, Dr. Paul Alexander is here with us. Follow him on Substack. It's palexander.substack.com. Dr. Buckler is thebookofmasks.com, plural mask, realmaskscience.com. And let me see if I've got anything else to tell you, except that, you know, obviously we know Paul Alexander, who's been a key voice in the COVID debacle, as Dr. Kelly Victory likes to call it. And he was one of the first to bring my attention to the fact that the six feet

distancing thing was, he was there when these decisions were made, and this was pulled out of thin air as a ridiculous notion. He actually challenged the head of the NIH, if I remember right. Let's get into that. Dr. Paul Alexander, welcome back. Thank you, Drew. Thank you for your team. And it's always an honor and a privilege to be on a show like yours. I'm listening to it constantly and it's a wealth of knowledge. So thank you. Well, thank you, sir. DrPaulAlexander.com is where you can find him as well.

D-R Paul Alexander. And Paul, I want you to do two quick things. I always like to set up what your training is. I know I've made you go through it now each time you've appeared here, but why the importance of the McMaster training and what the level of quality is of your thinking and your research and your training, number one. And then number two, am I getting that story right?

Was it Francis Collins that you challenged about the six feet distancing or was it someone else? Oh, Dr. Redfield, Robert Redfield. And he was the director of CDC. And he was one of the task force members. And truth be told, full disclosure, I had a good work relationship with Dr. Redfield. And he's a good man. He had his own problems with CDC internally.

He has his politics. And a lot of mistakes were made by CDC. And me personally, I just felt he was not strong as a leader, should have been for that type of agency in COVID. But I mean, generally, but it's not just what I said. I mean, I had a conversation with him where he said, you know, we just, it was not just what I said. I mean, I had a conversation with him where he said, you know, we just, it was not based on any science. And when I saidb, who I believe was the FDA commissioner at a certain point, he then came in an interview and he said that it was

arbitrary and basically, and he used the words, it was made up. So it was a stunning admission, well, by me, by Dr. Gottlieb, that we embarked in this six-foot. The key with this is that there was no science, but more importantly, many businesses, many business owners had to close because they could not afford,

and the reality is many people harmed themselves. Many people in America committed suicide, business owners, because of the policies of COVID. This being one of them, there was no basis for the six feet social distancing rule. And it harmed a lot of people. It destroyed a lot of the economy. So it's one of the things that's a legacy of COVID that was just, it was not just ridiculous. It was devastating. And that's the key. You know, how do we fix that?

Yeah. Well, I don't know about fix that so much as make sure it doesn't happen again. And I know you have some very strong feelings about masking as well, which we'll get into in a second, which was another arbitrary and, you know, insane policy. I mean, as objective data came out about it, they kept ignoring it. But do me a favor, though. Review your training again and your experience at McMaster's and why that's so important.

Okay, well, you know, briefly, because I know we have a time issue. So my background training is in epidemiology from the University of Toronto, health sciences in general, too, from York University. But post that, I went and I did a, so my graduate training was in epidemiology, but I also went to Johns Hopkins to do a small program in biological warfare, bioterrorism, and the epidemiological aspects of if you weaponize pathogen, put it on a missile, deliver it into a city, what are the epidemiological aspects of if you weaponize pathogen, put it on a missile, deliver it into a city,

what are the epidemiological and public health emergency responding to that? From there, I went on to Oxford and did a graduate degree in clinical epidemiology. And I met people like Carl Hannigan, Amanda Bowles, Paul Glazio. These people were considered the cream of the crop in evidence-based research and medicine. But whilst I was there at Oxford, every time that we had these little social gatherings and they were chatting with me and they would say, so you are actually from Canada, you know,

but do you know this person, that person in evidence-based medicine? And I was intrigued that they were so fascinated. Eventually they told me that they consider McMaster University to be really the foci of clinical research and actual academic research and that evidence-based medicine came from there. I actually was not aware of that. And I did my study quickly

and I found out that Dr. Gordon Guyatt and Dr. Dave Sackett founded the field of evidence-based medicine that we use today. you know, like I would like to go further beyond this graduate degree at Oxford. And he said, well, you know, I'm looking for a couple of doctoral students. And, um, you know, we had some meetings and he agreed to supervise me. And, uh, so I did my PhD there with the founder of evidence-based medicine and did a postdoc with him. And let me put it this way. When you look globally at all of academic research in terms of randomized control trials, observations, case control, meta-analysis, systematic reviews, most of the methods as to how and research community so that there's this understanding that if you wanted to do research at McMaster in the field of evidence-based medicine like a doctorate and you could not get in because it's highly competitive, you would end up going to Harvard or Stanford or Yale. So I'm not saying this to slight Dr. Risch because Dr. Risch I consider the guru

and he's my mentor in epidemiology. But the truth of the matter is I schooled in a place that is a research methodology purist institution. It's the best research methodology. And Paul, what are they thinking in the aftermath now of the debacle? I mean, were they just in disbelief as things unveiled? Did they also fall victim to the hysteria? How does McMaster's understand what the world did in their abandonment of evidence-based medicine?

Well, I think that's a complicated answer. That is complicated because for two reasons. One, when I entered the Trump administration, I was part of a lot of different research groups in terms of treatments, in terms of strategies, et cetera. And I was asked to step off of those groups because of a conflict, a possible conflict. But two, what I also realized, Dr. Drew, and look, I'm a very blunt person and I've written about it, that evidence-based medicine during COVID actually took a backseat and actually suffered dramatically

because when we look at the type of research that was published, was accepted, and put out there to the public, a lot of it was junk, junk science and garbage that could not normally, in the proper research world, even got into peer review status. We also found that some good research that should have been published

was not even allowed peer review. So the field of academic research and even EDM, evidence-based medicine, it became very political and politicized. And that's another drama. That's why somebody like Dr. Butler would have to write his book and where a lot of what he has done and people like him, myself included, McCullough, all of us, we could not get high quality, trustworthy academic research published in proper peer reviewed journals because they just wouldn't take it. And they would begin the review and then stop the review and they would actually publish papers and then take it down from Medline and PubMed. What happened in COVID defies an explanation and really damaged the field of academic research, the field of journal, the editors.

They became very politicized and biased and really harmless. And I think that EBM today is not being practiced in its classical sense. That's my view. And, you know, I have so many colleagues there. They may not like how I say it, but it's just the way it is. And I even question some of the research that has come out in the academic field, the purest EBM researchers. And so that's how I deal with that.

Okay. I did not know about your bioterrorism training, and it makes me wonder two things that I'd like you to quickly comment on, and then we'll get Dr. Buckley and her to go deep on masks. One is, do you think that some of the hysteria

around COVID and the extraordinarily impulsive, non-evidence-based policies that were just randomly put in place was behind closed doors because they believe this was a bioterrorism event and didn't really know the full extent of where this was going, number one. And number two, I wonder if you could also comment on the avian H5N1 flu, which to my estimation, if we start seeing human-to-human transmission, has to be laboratory alteration of the virus. Well, let me start with H5N1 because I think that's something they're putting on. It's in the news now repeatedly. I think that right now, they said it came from av juiced up or played around with in the lab to give it that capacity. So we have to be open to that situation. Similarly to like how we have to be open to as to what happened in COVID. And you know, there are so many, but I guess the point is what do we do at this point? Do we run below the bed like we did under COVID when we were told

misinformation about asymptomatic transmission, about recurrent infection, pre-Omicron era, about all of the things, about equal risk of outcome despite age and baseline risk differences. So do we adopt that same hysteria and the population lockdown? And I say my own view, I don't know the views of yourself or Dr. Watter, but my own views at this point, we have nothing on death to tell us that we need to put on masks, that we need to lock down, close schools, business schools for this, for whatever this is. But we sleep with an eye open and we be on top of this evidence because we just don't do it right now.

Right. But I'm just saying, if it happens, it's something got juiced up, as you say. But what we did with the wellness company is we added Tamiflu to our kit so people could have Tamiflu on hand. It's not a great drug for HIV and AIDS, but it has some efficacy. And that's the point.

Be ready. Be prepared. Do the most you can. But hiding under your bed is the most unproductive thing I can imagine. And that's sort of where they seem to go with their recommendations from the public health standpoint. Well, I think that is, you see, that is the key. And that's why I am with the wellness company at this time, which is Cell, Rish, McCullough, et cetera, Thor, Dr. Kelly, is because I think the dictum of the company is

there's a lot of questions that have remained unanswered. And we're actually still learning after four years. But what do we do? We need to offer some solutions. What out there is that we could offer best, short of doing nothing? Once we adopt all of the precautionary principle, the precautionary principle, Dr. Joe, as you know,

if we don't know what's happening, but we have things available to us that are safe, approved, regulatory approved, effective, cost-effective, not prohibitively expensive, that we can offer and has some modicum of effectiveness. As you said, even if modestly effective, once it does not harm, I think that's the key. If it's not harming and people are crying.

I know. I agree. I agree. By the way, in terms of doing no harm, a pharmacological agent, let's say Tamiflu, no harm compared to lockdown, for which the reverberations, the harmful reverberations will go on for decades. And why there was no risk-reward analysis. Back to Dr. Redfield. Sorry, for some reason I thought it was Francis Collins because Francis Collins recently admitted,

he's the one that admitted that they made it up. But in any event, back to Redfield. Shoot, what was I going to say about his... I've been traveling a lot lately in my aging brain. No, it was not going to be on social distancing. I was going to ask a question. Shoot, it'll come. Well well here's what always happens it comes to me after about three minutes but uh tell me while i'm thinking about it go tell me about dr buckler and how you two got together and how this you know

i'm using i don't know if i said the word magnum opus but but my goodness, magnum opus was the term was designed to describe something like this. I've used the word opus many times, but this is truly- It looks like that infectious disease book you have. True. It is. And it is so extensively referenced. I mean, let me just show you if I can, if I can flip to something, because there's so many references everywhere through this book. But anyway, tell us how you got together, and here's a couple pages of references. Everything

is just fully referenced in published literature. I mean, there must be 4,000 references in this thing. Well, look, let me just say this way. I believe Dr. Butler would be the optimal individual to really lay out, give us a landscape about this piece of scholarship and this thesis.

But let me just say it this way. Across the last four years, very early on, Butler, myself, Dr. Raminos K, even Dr. Rish. Dr. Rish was actually, I did a lot of work with him. We published a lot of stuff. We were looking at the evidence that was showing that, well, first of all, none of the research studies that were being done on masks were proper comparative effectiveness research studies.

So it was suboptimal to begin with. Yeah, and so it was kind of like junk pseudoscience. But what we knew from the past in terms of influenza research, some good research, again, out of Oxford, Cochrane Group, Hennigan, Tom Jefferson, I knew these guys from Oxford, showed basically that the masks were always ineffective for respiratory-type viruses and for pathogen. And then showed basically that the masks were always ineffective for respiratory type viruses and for pathogens. And then Dr. Buckler and me had communicated. And I had a lot of research

out there. He himself had a lot of research. And he was compiling this compendium. And we had talked, we had communicated. And actually, I was surprised because as it was finished, I got a big, my own version of it. And I actually said, you know, will I ever be able to finish this book? But I actually started to read the book. And right now I'm at about quarter way in and it's exceptionally well written. As you said, highly referenced. And I think what he has done for the world is he's put together a piece

that we could refer back to as more and more of these episodes occur. Hopefully they don't. We could look at the fraud of what happened. Because look, I think what Buckler is trying to say and what I am doing as clear as possible is this. Today, after four years, if we look at the body of evidence in its entirety, we have no evidence.

This is my statement that I want to preface. That these blue surgical masks, these white cloth masks, man-made masks, any of them worked. We have no evidence that any mask mandate worked. I've seen no such study. And we actually have research that shows that it's toxic. Again, the proper comparative effectiveness research, randomized controlled trials, proper duration, etc., have not been done. You know, we just have a couple out there in the Bangladesh study, etc.

These were very suboptimal and the results were very under Danish mass study. But I would like, Dr. Butler, please, I've had the floor. Dr. Butler is the expert. Okay, we'll get him in here. Two quick things, though, before we do so. Having hung around with Dr. Buckner is the expert. Okay, we'll get him in here. Two quick things, though,

before we do so. Having hung around with Dr. Rish a bit, I was trained on the null hypothesis, and I jumped out of my chair when he taught me that he thinks very distinctly about research in a sense

that he just, we were looking at something, he goes, the null hypothesis is non-informative. I thought, that's what research can tell us. It's either informative or non-informative. And people get way bogged down in many other things. And I just, I love the clarity of his thought. I don't know what that means. It's a way of analyzing research, essentially. And in my experience, the simpler and clearer the hypothesis

and the simpler the experiment, the more the null hypothesis is predictive. But be that as it may. The other thing was, I wanted to ask about something you said about Redfield before we bring Dr. Buckley in. It's a very quick aside. You mentioned that he was having trouble at the CDC.

One of the things that we are seeing is that a lot of the excesses and really the hysteria and craziness around many things these days is sort of being perpetrated by middle management, and the leaders sort of lose control of things, and then they start representing the middle-level sort of point of view, which is hysterical. Did he have something like that going on at the CDC? Well, I mean, two things. One, Dr. Redfield is, you know, as I said, because my job was at Health and Human Services at the Secretary and Assistant Secretary's building, Dr. Redfield reported into our office with Dr. Fauci, Dr. Girard, Dr. Hahn. They all had sub-offices, so I had the honor of working with them. I have my opinion on each.

Redfield's a God-fearing man, smart guy. He cut his teeth on HIV research. But I think when he was given the portfolio at CDC and then COVID emerged, I think, not I think, I mean, I was there. There's so much of political infighting and tragedy, I call it, at CDC. And I think that he was considered an outsider. I believe President Trump appointed him. And I believe he was never accepted within the CDC framework. So they were undercutting him at most opportunities they got. So he was fighting not just from the point of view of running the CDC and his role in the task force. He was fighting his own internal coup within the CDC. And that was a huge challenge.

And I remember looking at some of the communications and stuff. It was clear that a lot of the people that reported to him, actually, they had no regard for him, whether or not he was a CDC director. And so that made things very, very difficult. And a lot of the wrong that ICA-CDC did did not emanate from Redfield. It emanated from the people below him who were supporting President Trump. That's the key. The key is that somebody like Redfield didn't really have control over those career bureaucrats. That I think Redfield was not the right person at the CDC at that point. I was very suspicious. And they became hysterical because

they already had sort of a Trump derangement thing going on. And that just added their hysterical attitude. And this is actually important information, Dr. Alexander. I feel like the world ought to know and take note of the fact that our government, and again, the elected officials who are appointed by elected officials, or let's say the non-elected officials appointed by elected officials, are the will of the people, not the bureaucrats and the so-called swamp that live under them. This is very, very concerning, I must say. And it's what I was suspicious about. And like the six feet distancing, which I was also suspicious was made up out of thin air. You're telling me something today that is informative, as Dr. Reich would say. And so I appreciate you sharing that. I hear you

say that Dr. Redfield is a smart guy, a good guy, and that we should have full respect for him. But I think people should be aware of the will of the people being subverted, if indeed that's what... I mean, it's just very, very, very concerning that the hysteria of the underlings is what led to the excesses of... what was directly linked to some of the excesses of the COVID disaster. Well, look, Drew, Dr. Drew, let me just say it this way. You know, because of my position, because of my position, and look, I'm an island boy. So because of that, everybody listens to my accent and stuff.

And sometimes they've never seen me. They all want to talk about rum and Coca-Cola. I'm being very blunt. How is everything, man? Only when we get scientific then they realize who I am and who they're talking to.

But they took the advantage when we had a chance. Very high level people at CDC and IHFDA would meet me at HHS when they came for their meetings. And they would tell me, you know, we like how you speak. We like a lot of things you've said. We are not Trump supporters, blah, blah, blah. They are part of the administrative deep state, too. And they, let me just say it as clear so your listeners will understand.

They told me in as clear language as possible that our daily job on a day- to deceive the people we report into, to undercut Trump. And they felt that they could tell me this because they felt that I'm one of them. They assumed that I'm a Democrat, and I know good Democrats, so that's not a bad thing to say. But they assumed that I was part of the administrative state. Only when they understood that I was first a Trump appointee, then I became a federal public servant, that they changed towards me. So I grew to learn a lot of things about, in my building at HHS, April, May, June, July, August of 2020, the height of this pandemic, there was no one except the 10, 12, 15 of us at the HHS who supported President Trump.

I am talking about thousands of federal employees across CDC, NIH, HHS, NIAID, FDA, who all flowed through that system and that building, the HHS building on independence, they all worked against President Trump. They did nothing to help President Trump. I think pointing out that it was directed at Trump undermines a little bit the extraordinary importance of your observation. And I hope you substack this and maybe read a book about it. Maybe this is what comes on after masks, which is that the president, the duly elected president of the United States can be undermined by the administrative state. That is something I've been worried about, suspicious about.

You observed it in real time. It could be, it could have happened to Biden. It could happen to RFK Jr. If he gets, who knows? The point is that there are, I don't want to use a language that they're just not elected officials who are bureaucrats. And that's the bureaucracy, it seemed to me, has been the enemy throughout COVID. They couldn't change direction.

They couldn't admit when they were wrong. They did things that harm people profoundly based on nothing. And I'm changing my feelings about bringing that to task because I've always said, now let's just understand what happened and make sure it doesn't happen again. But now I'm starting to think, well, maybe some people do need to be bring to task. So they think twice before they undermine

a, someone who's an elected official. But listen, Paul, I want to bring in, I want to get deep on masks. I want to bring Dr. Buckler in here. I'm sure it'll be illustrative of the excesses that we're talking about. So I appreciate you. We'll be right back after this and back with Dr. Philip Buckler. Let's talk about aging because everyone wants to know how to slow it down. For almost a decade, I've been taking a healthy aging supplement called TruNiagen.

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Dr. Buckler, as I said, is a dentist. He's also a major in the Army. He has written the opus, The Science of Masks and The Book of Masks. This is The Book of Masks. And he's got an interesting subtitle to that book. He, let's see, he was, I think, one of the only people to stand up against, in the army, against the masking and the insanity. And Dr. Paul Alexander, of course, stays with us as well.

I want to make sure we give Dr. Buckler's particulars, the book of masks.com, realmaskscience.com, as you can find Dr. Buckler's material. And of course, you can purchase the book, the book on masks, this extraordinary volume. And volume, again, is the proper way of describing it, is an extraordinary document, extraordinary book. Please welcome Dr. Philip Buckler. Thank you for having me. Of course, and I know you were sitting patiently while Dr. Alexander and I were going on about various things, and Dr. Alexander is still with us as well.

Realmaskscience.com for Dr. Buckler. So I'm not even sure where to start except to ask sort of how did, I'm guessing there was a certain amount of outrage at the randomness and the lack of scientific rigor that went into masking, and how did that outrage get converted into this work uh that's that that's it in a nutshell i mean it was i saw it happening i was like this is so wrong on so many levels and the the science to me was always kind of secondary but people kept appealing to the science to justify it even though even if even if masks worked, which they don't, even if that was the case, that wouldn't necessarily justify forcing them on everyone, even if they worked, and you wouldn't need to force them on everyone in the first place. So I started researching all aspects of masks, pulling every study I could get my hands on, and I didn't actually start to even

try to make even a tentative case for the idea that they don't work until I've been researching it for about at least four or five months, probably up to about six months I think was when I first put my most coherent case together. So in that sense, I mean, I took a little bit longer to arrive at that conclusion than Dr. Alexander did, but I just pulled every source I could from every library I could, read all the articles, looked at all the references, read those references, read the references of those references going back the last hundred plus years. And then I cross-checked my work with what other people were saying, and I wish I'd found Dr. Alexander's work sooner. It would have saved me dozens of hours.

I found his stuff when I was almost done writing the book, but I was able to check my work against his, and he had one of the best compilations on mask science available. And he even tracked down the WHO meta-analysis of 10 randomized controlled trials prior to 2020 that I kept seeing referenced, but I could not find to save my life on the WHO website until I found the link on his sub stack. So thank you, Dr. Alexander. Wow. And of course, they buried that deeply. So am I wrong to think, and there's no evidence that surgical masks do anything. And for those of you that go, surgeons wear surgical masks. Yes.

So their saliva and the bacteria in the mouth does not enter a sterile field, not to prevent a respiratory virus from being caught. And so surgical masks, zero efficacy in both directions. But am I wrong to think that wearing a properly fitted N95 perfectly, again, perfectly fitted and perfectly worn without any exception and not taking down for bites of Cheetos, worn perfectly, could have some benefit on protecting oneself. Is that wrong of me to say that? Honestly, at this point, I don't even want to concede that. That's probably the, if you're going to try to make a case for masks, that would be the strongest you'd be able to do it. But if masks actually worked, we would

expect to see a statistically significant difference when healthcare providers who are trained in wearing masks, who wash their hands, do everything else right when they do it, when they're wearing N95 masks compared to surgical masks. And we have a bunch of randomized controlled trials, including one sponsored by the CDC, in thousands of healthcare providers over multiple hospitals across the nation, showing that there's no statistically significant difference between N95 mask respiratory infections and medical mask respiratory infections. So at this point, I would say even N95 masks don't make a statistically significant difference. And if someone wanted to say, okay, well, there's a non-statistically significant protective effect, well, would you wear a piece of armor that doesn't give you a non-statistically significant effect to stop a bullet?

It just doesn't make sense. And when you dig into the details of some of those randomized controlled trials, there was one by Loeb et al that came out in 2023. As a matter of fact, one of three that I know of since COVID, that one actually showed a higher rate of coronavirus infections in the N95 group. Again, not a statistically significant difference. But so at this point, my position is that they don't make a statistically significant difference in either direction, no matter how good of a mask you wear, other than that cloth masks make things worse. And all that is there. All that is highly researched in the book. Now, it seems to me you're getting into, yes, there are hyperblings there. You get into the psychology and the philosophy in this book as well.

So summarize some of that for us. I'm very fascinated by the whole mass formation phenomenon, but what are your conclusions about all that? I mean, I would say that masks were weaponized behavioral psychology. I'm still not 100% certain it was intentional from everyone, but there were a lot of behavioral psychology units, and we can see this from the UK or from Germany, at least, with documents that were released showing how behavioral psychology was deliberately leveraged and I would say weaponized to get people to wear masks more. And if you read books by Richard

Thaler and Cass Sunstein, their book Nudge, Robert Cialdini's Principles of Influence, masking, it just hits all of those classic psychological influence principles so effectively. Social proof, the rule of reciprocation, my mask protects you, your mask protects me. That's the classic trying to force people into a reciprocal relationship whether they want it or not. Another one was the hashtag I wear a mask because campaign. When you get someone to publicly commit to their reasons for doing something, they're far less likely to repudiate that later on or to change their mind. And I go into a lot of these ways in which masks were leveraged that way. Well, there is no doubt that Cialdini's ideas as a persuasion, he is the grandfather, the grand Cuba of persuasion. I love his work.

I saw it. Yeah, he had a book called Persuasion and various stuff out there. But there was no doubt in my mind that that was all afoot. I'm sure people were hired to do this. I wouldn't even blame the people that gave the techniques on how to persuade somebody who was hell-bent on making people comply. These are propaganda techniques at their core. So they were using propaganda on one end, Cialdini et al. and persuasion to turn up the volume of the behavior. Then even more aggressively,

they were using cancellation and... What's the word I'm looking for where you keep people's information down? This is my brain today for some reason. Censorship. Censorship, thank you. They're using suppression and censorship even more aggressively on the other side. This is stuff that throughout my life, when we saw totalitarian states doing shit like this, we looked at it as evil and outrageous and how any free society could tolerate such nonsense again this is this is the stuff that when i look at

what happened here i i i i can't i'm trying still trying to make sense of it help me i mean well that's that's pretty much it you get you the social proof. You get the passive social pressure, just like in Solomon Asch's experiments. You have a lot of aspects from, say, Philip Zimbardo's Stanford prison experiment, where collective punishments were used. If you aren't good children, we're going to force you all to put the masks back on, trying to turn everyone against the people who are objecting to wear masks. We've got the Stanley Milgram experiments. Those are, I mean, that's Milgram was right. Those were experiments done to try to understand how did an average German turn into a prison guard?

How did that happen? That's what we were trying to understand because it made no sense to us in a republic-free society. And now here our government has been doing it. Let's bring Dr. Paul Alexander in because he was there when it all went down, and I just rely on his insights. And, Paul, sometimes I think you don't realize how much you actually witnessed all this stuff because it was just happening around you.

But those of us that didn't witness it, this is extraordinary. Yeah, well, I mean, truth be told is that, first of all, I'm very, very honored to listen to what Dr. Buckner has just said because I support it all. Well, let's be blunt then. I am probably in the most unique position that people had because I was the only academic scientist in the HHS in that building during COVID. And when it became known that I was there as a Trump appointee, it was held for me from the deep state. But the point is that I had the opportunity to look on and to listen and to see.

And there was every effort to support Trump. And let me say it this way. So President Trump would have occasions where he would invite the staff to his Trump Hotel in Washington. So on one of those invitations, I went there. It was with Dr. Scott Atlas, and we were hanging around talking with other people. And there were these people from the State Department who were Democrats,

but they were also invited, but that's okay. And one of them told me something that surprised me. They said to me, bluntly, they said, President Trump is only visiting here, you know. He's only a visitor. He's only a visitor. The POTUS is a visitor.

We run things here. We, the administrative state, run America. He might be here for four more years, which he was not. But then he's gone. We live here. We run this thing. And that made it clear to me the situation. I grew to really understand

what a president even, a president of the United States, really, from my point of view today, has the amount of power that they're willing to take. Because if they arrive there, the administrative state will give them nothing.

If they're a strong person, they need to then run things themselves. It would be war, but they need to do that. I think Trump 2.0, should he get in, and this is not a short term from President Trump, but I'm just saying, from what he went to Trump 1.0, I believe he learned enough that 2.0, he'd be a very different animal to deal with

and they would be very concerned. He better selects if should he be elected he better select a vice president who can be also elected because this is not a short term thing who has a similar ability but it seems extraordinary. It sounds to

me like we need somebody like the Argentinian president that just starts closing things down and shrinking things and just arbitrarily doing stuff because of this extraordinary behavior and the philosophy of us. Listen, I don't care who's doing it. I don't care. It could be all Republicans. Because I'm a moderate. I don't care who it is. I just don't like the idea that public servants don't serve the public will. That is disgusting. And that is a problem because they

don't know better than us. And that is the opposite of what the founding fathers had in mind. And I mean, they could even be doing the right thing, these people in administrative state, and still it would, it would blow my mind that they felt that way. And, and I've said this before, what they don't understand is that this is, these are, these are ideas developed by Louis XIV. He was the one that developed the ultimate administrative state. And it actually was the Jacobins during the revolution who wanted to take

that administrative state and just make it a totalitarian bureaucracy that really ran things without a monarch. We call that Soviet Russia. We call that China. They did that.

Didn't work so great for the most part. So the fact that they don't understand they're using principles from monarchical feudal societies is mind-boggling to me. But I'll let you answer, Dr. Buckler. Do you want to comment on this? I see you smiling. Oh, yeah. Well, that just jogged my memory, because I know you're a student of the French Revolution, and you probably know how in 1792, just a year after the First Amendment was passed in America, the French Legislative Assembly mandated that everyone wear what's called the tricolored cockade, kind of a disc-like decoration

of three colors, and said, anyone who doesn't wear this cockade, that's a disc-like decoration of three colors and said, anyone who doesn't wear this cockade, that's a sign of rebellion, at least any man who doesn't do it. And that's what masks were. Masks were an enforced flag wearing, an enforced tricolor cockade. Yes, yes. And then the fact that people are still wearing them is more evidence of that because they clearly are trying to protect themselves from a virus. They are trying to signal participation in this process. What should we call it? This thing needs a name. It's not a revolution.

Either of you have a name for, I mean, and again, I want to remind everybody that the organization that mandated the tricolor was called the Committee for Public Safety. It was on behalf of safety. That's funny. Do we have a name for what we've just been, or what the mask wearers are engaged in? Either of you have an idea for that? Bad teeth. Violation of the First Amendment? Enforce symbolic speech?

No, but I mean, what do they think they're... It is, of course, but is it a revolutionary gesture? Is it a... I mean, what is that? What do they think they're doing? Or is it Trump derangement at its core?

Is it just hysteria? Somebody on Rumble said zombie apocalypse. Zombie apocalypse, it's not far off, but go ahead. Paul, you had something there? Well, what I mean, look, I think it's very troubling when

we look at the body of evidence today and we could show in every single report, scientific report, observation study, any type of research, any government report written, in the entire world, entire world,

we could find not one study that shows that lockdowns during COVID worked, that school closures worked, that business closures worked, that business closures worked, and that any of the mask mandates worked. In fact, wherever they were implemented, mask mandates, infections went up. And there was a fascinating two studies

that I know Dr. Buckler has in his compendium that I wanted to remind. The one that really caught our attention was one done by Chow et al. Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. In that study, they looked at nurses who were locked into a hospital setting. Once that one was done, there was one in Israel by Chitrit. I remember these things because we wrote so much.

And one by Hattie Mietal in Finland. And what did they show in the Delta outbreak when nurses were double vaccinated? Those studies showed us that those nurses were PPE'd, full shields and masks, full gums, and all of their colleagues got infected and all of the patients that they were looking after got infected. It showed us very early on that the masks did not stop infection and that the masks were not working, even amongst healthcare professionals. That was key.

And there was one seminal study. It was published, I believe, in 1981 by Dr. Neil Orr. Dr. Neil Orr is a New England Journal of Medicine, a very old publication, very simple study, elegant. It was a fascinating result on Dr. Ramin Oski, rest in peace. He was one of the soldiers in this fight. He passed away, colleague, a good friend. He actually drew that study to my attention three years ago. And what it showed was this. When I tell you the results, you would say, but that's impossible, but that was the result.

They looked at surgeons in a hospital and they looked at a group of surgeons who were masked and a group of surgeons who were unmasked. This is over 40 years ago. And what they found was that the surgeons who were unmasked. This is over 40 years ago. And what they found was that the surgeons who were unmasked had far less infection in their patients, et cetera,

than the surgeons who were masked. And in other words, the masks, they were actually arguing that masks on a surgeon actually contaminates the surgical field in a way that an unmasked surgeon would. Very fascinating study. Very fascinating. You must read about it. Neil Orr.

And it's in Dr. Buckler's company. It's out there. It's hard to believe, but I understand that this was published. Let me ask this to both of you. Do you address in the book, in particular, all the studies that are trotted out in favor of masking, in favor of school closures? Go ahead, Dr. Bocler. Oh, yes. In fact, the CDC's famous science brief that they last updated back in December 2021 and then quietly removed from their website a couple years later. That had about 90 references in it, and people would just gesture at it and say,

oh, you don't think masks work? Oh, well, go read the CDC. You don't know what you're talking about. Well, I read every study in the CDC science brief, and that science brief was a piece of trash. More than a third of the references they cited didn't even have anything to do with mask efficacy. Most of them were laboratory studies and the observational trials that they had in there were, I mean, Dr. Alexander commented on some of them as well. They were just not good observational studies to begin with. So I actually address every single one of the 90 studies cited by the CDC to support masking early on in the book. And I go through and dissect every one of them. And I took them and I categorized them, as a matter of fact, in a diagram form that you can find on my website, the book on masks.com on the extra section, where I kind of diagrammed them out as a teeter-totter. Where closer to the fulcrum, you've got studies that

are like modeling studies or opinion studies, then laboratory studies a little bit further out, and then you have the range of observational studies. And then you've got randomized controlled trials on the far end where they would have the most impact. And when you lay out where all of the CDC studies fall on that compared to all of the studies that they just ignored, it's not even close. The evidence is just overwhelming that masks don't work. And we're just talking about masks. We're talking about masks generally. Then you take it to the next sort of, I guess, meta would be the proper word. Not to mean meta-analysis, but the meta-concern that mask-manding, mask, excuse me, mask-masking and mask mandates are even less efficacious.

Just do no more than think about how people were coached about wearing masks. Well, pull it down, put it right back up again after you eat your Cheetos, or just take it off just during lunch. Zero efficacy at that point from any standard. And that's how we went through life with this. And everyone wear their masks. First of all, they're wearing surgical masks. Secondly, they're wearing them below their nose. Or you could see, I mean, I'll never forget the picture of Bernie Sanders in the Congress with the N95 mask on, and his glasses steamed up from the breath jet going up through the open passage between his nose and the mask, meaning zero efficacy of said mask.

And this was the world we lived in. And by world, I do mean world. I stood outside the Louvre, and a security guard came up to me, a very nice young man, and said, garde la masque. Gardez la masque. Keep the mask on. Outside.

Outside the Louvre. And then, again, outside mask wearing is another level of insanity. Zero transmission outside. Who wants to raise their hand? Go ahead, Paul. Well, the thing

is, you know, like when you say it, it just angers you as to what our governments and our health officials and the law enforcement did to us during 2020, 2021, at the height of COVID. I mean, if you could remember

that photo, that video, short video of the attack, was it the Spanish or Italian police riding on the seashore in the water on their horses going into the into the shallower water trying to pull a swimmer? The only person out in the water, nobody's on the beach. And they're trying to grab this. We had that. We had that happen here on the beach. And they're trying to grab this. We had that happen here at the beach. A guy was on one of those standing surfboards paddling

by himself. No one on the beach, no one in the water. A coast guard had to come up in a boat to go get him. I mean, this is the insanity. This is the insanity. They wouldn't let us sit down on towels on the beach, but we could stand up. Then you were allowed to go to the beach, but you couldn't sit down is the insanity. This is the insanity. They wouldn't let us sit down on towels on the beach,

but we could stand up. Then you were allowed to go to the beach, but you couldn't sit down at the beach. And a lot of, we're on to you. We see you. Those people should be ashamed of themselves. I'd like to hear some apologies from some of those people. Well, you know, I know Dr. Moore will have a remark, too.

What's that, Paul? I just have to say, you know, I know Dr. Buckler will have a remark too but I just have to say I know Dr. Buckler will chime in too my view is this it was so ridiculous but it was so nonsensical that the real tragedy of this Dr. Drew is that people

harm themselves as a consequence and that's where the discussions have to go Dr. Drew is that people harm themselves as a consequence. And that's where the discussions have to go. Because society was so damaged, but people were put in jail. They were done so many horrible things because of this. Yes, yes. And let's be fair. Let's zero it in, Paul. The issue isn't that these things were mandated and people were harmed.

The issue is that there was zero evidence, zero reason for them to do these things. If they had reason, or even if they thought they had good reason, like there was a consensus among scientists or clinicians or something, they made the case, this was not that. This was arbitrary. This was hysteria. And it's that feature that is so much the problem here. For instance, I tend to be a little bit easy on some of the public health response in the early days because, all right, they hadn't fully realized

what was going on yet. They were doing the best they could. They're trying to figure things out. They were excessive in all things at the beginning. Okay. But in California, those excesses remained in place for two years, for two years. That's insane.

It was super clear after six months. Look, we had an AB testB test, Florida versus California, which one was doing better? And no, zero ability to change course, zero ability to look at the evidence. And that's the part, not the action so much as the lack of reason to do these excesses. Dr. Buckler, am I onto anything there? I mean, yeah, I would go even farther and say it was the action itself, because I would say those actions were unconstitutional and immoral to begin with. I would say they were based on a primitive proto-utilitarianism,

which says that if X works, or if X is the best option, then we can force everyone to do X. And so I'm still angry about that. We have laws, but we have laws that give fiat authority to public health emergencies and things. And to me, when this was all underway, I thought we got to change those laws. We got to change them. It can't be that people who are untrained, unskilled, unknowledgeable, not so smart, that make decisions on an arbitrary basis

that affect everyone's lives. They should not have that kind of authority. It's not okay. As I used to say, it's a communist plot. Well, we don't know, but it's certainly- Sorry, you guys. But all right. Dr. Buckler, review with me your actual, what happened to you when you actually refused the command to wear masks? Well, I mean, in my case, a lot of my self-knowledge from this entire experience is completely not flattering based on my experience and how long it took me to finally tell the army no on masks, I think I would have fallen into the same traps as a lot of soldiers historically did, that we now look back on very rightfully and say those soldiers did the wrong things. But now I have a much better conception of exactly how intense that

pressure can be. So I complied with wearing a mask while I was in uniform up until February 1st, 2022. By 2021, anyone with two brain cells to rub together could tell that no branch of the military was acting in good faith when it came to religious accommodation requests. I responded to that by trying to file the strongest possible religious accommodation request with regards to masking. I do not want to wear, I have a sincerely held religious belief against wearing a mask in any manner exceeding what was common in my profession or the general public prior to 2020. And so I sent that up, the more than 200 studies. It was just kind of held in limbo for six months. I finally was like, hey, I can't do this. If this hasn't at least been actioned,

I'm just going to say no, and I'm going to articulate why. And so I did that. And for a month, it was just counseling statements. I'd show up to work, wear the mask, no, sir, go home. And then about a month later, I was suddenly told that my religious accommodation request, which had been registered as complete six months before, was suddenly incomplete. And so I had to go through another chaplain interview, another health care provider interview. The first health care provider actually recommended accommodation, as did both chaplains. And the second health care provider didn't opine either way. But within 24 hours, that came down denied. And I found out later that the, uh, the staff judge advocate at the command at the higher

higher command level had given my commanders, both my company commander and my brigade commander templates, which they were just basically supposed to sign saying why they recommended denial of my accommodation request. So I got a general officer memorandum of reprimand. I got a referred officer evaluation report, which sounded very innocuous, but they'll ruin your career, and they automatically trigger elimination proceedings. So I went to an elimination board. By the grace of God, I'm still in. I'm a board elected to retain, and the general officer memorandum of reprimand was removed from my record in January of this year. And just about four weeks ago, the referred officer evaluation report was removed as well. But I thought I was the only officer to do this. And it turns out there was one other doctor, at least, who formally said no to wearing masks.

And the Army kicked him out with a less than fully honorable discharge. And he's still out. And as we speak right now, Dr. Samuel Sigaloff, one of the Army's most prominent whistleblowers when it came to the vaccine, is actually defending himself at a hearing because his credentials were yanked. And one of the allegations or accusations against him is that he didn't force all of his patients to wear masks. And I had all of my patients take off their masks because by the nature of dental treatment, if masking was so essential, you wouldn't be able to do any dental treatments because you can't do a dental treatment

on someone who's wearing a mask. But that's kind of the level of insanity they were at and that we're still dealing in the background. Oregon doctor, Stephen LaTulip, he still has not gotten his license back from the Oregon medical board, which just yanked it without any due process. And he lost his... He's still... Uh-oh. There we go. Oh, hey, that's a good... They're putting up with...

Yeah, exactly. You glitched for a second there. Keep going. Oh, yeah. So, I mean, Dr. Stephen LaTulip, the Oregon Medical Board still hasn't reinstated his license after he went viral saying that masks don't work. But this kind of weaponization of the administrative process and using it to circumvent any actual due process rights is one of the mechanisms that was used to silence dissent and to shut down any doctors who were willing to say otherwise.

So this is still like a lot of people want this to be done with, and I want it to be done with too, but it's very much not done with. It's going on in the background as we speak. What is? What do you mean? Oh, this fight. I mean, like I said, Dr. Sigaloff, he's at a hearing. I see. Their fight. These people that were crushed by it. Yeah. And yes, we of course want it to go away, but we don't want it to happen again. That is the really key thing here. All right, listen, we got to kind of wrap things up here. I'll let each of you kind of give me your last thoughts.

Dr. Buckler, you first, then Dr. Alexander. Well, I really appreciate your work over the last couple of years on masks. I've loved seeing kind of the development of your views, and it's a real privilege to be on here with Dr. Alexander, too. And this isn't over, and it can't be over until the wrongdoing when it comes to masks is acknowledged, repudiated, repented, and safeguards are put in place such that this does not happen again. Because right now, if things just stay as they are, it's going to happen again. The only question is when. It could be worse. It could be the World Health Organization mandating these things. Somebody's not a doctor, not elected, and has authority over a sovereign official. That's an insanity we have to prevent. And Dr. Buck, you just reminded me that, Susan,

do you remember that environmental engineer we had in early on? And she was the first to alert me about masks and how ineffective they were. She was telling us how it sprays farther through the mask. Yeah, yeah. She was saying that. Like 60 feet or something. Yeah, she was saying 60 feet. She had all this good engineering data.

And she was screaming about it online. I brought her on a couple of times. And it was before any of the sort of clinical stuff was coming out. It was strictly a, you know, environmental engineering issue. And she, you know, had been up on this. The cloth ones. Well, everything. She was really instrumental in me going, oh, well, thank you, Dr. Buckler. And then Paul, give me your final thoughts. No doubt we'll see you again sometime down the road here. But this has been, again, every time I talk to you, I pull away something a little more, another little piece of startling information. It started with the six feet being just completely out of thin air, which I suspected.

Now we have the administrative state, the middle management that I was worried about. You've confirmed my darkest fears about that. Finish us off. Well, I mean, first of all, thank you so much again. It's an honor with your crew in the background making this happen for us and to be with Dr. Butler. And I want to say, sir, thank you for your service. And I really wish that everything works out, what you're doing to get out of that situation. Look, at the end of the day, Dr. Drew, we are in this situation because a most nonsensical, ludicrous response was done to this,-unquote COVID pandemic. And we have facts today that showed us really an infection fatality rate of 0.0304%, survival rate 0 to 70,

75 years old of 99.99%, almost 100%. We have credible, we can make a credible enough statement today that across four years in America, we could find not one healthy child. And I'm talking about a child from zero to 19 years old using CDC's pediatric definition of pediatric. One healthy child getting COVID becoming severely ill or dying. I'm not talking about a child, a person, a teenager with underlying grave medical conditions. Not one. The data is the same in Germany, in Sweden, etc.

So that told us we have a median age of death, COVID, still. May 2024 of 84, with three underlying medical conditions, roughly. Life expectancy is about 79. I believe 77 for men, 79 or 80 for women. That means COVID kills. If we accept this COVID virus story, COVID kills beyond life expectancy. Those are very important statistics that we need to walk away with. They're coming again with the H5N1

and I don't see no problem with any issue. I don't even buy some of it. And we are in a war. Dr. Buckler said it. They're not done. They're not finished. And thank war, Dr. Buckler said it. They're not done. They're not finished. And thank God, Dr. Drew, programs like yours where the listener must support you. I mean, if you have to choose me or Buckler, support Dr. Drew first.

His outfit. Because he allows people like us to come on and talk to you. But you are also critically informed now. So your public is so informed, Dr. Drew. We just need him riding shotgun with us to wage this battle. And I want to thank you once again. And TWC, please go to twc.health. We support that organization, twc.health.

Yes. Thank you. Yeah, they've been a pleasure to be a part of. DrPaulAlexander.com. And again, your sub stack, Paul? The simplest way to find me is you just Google Alexander COVID News. It's Alexander COVID News, and I have it right now. It's for free.

You can subscribe, and I just basically write everything I want to say. Take your ask for anything. He gets a head of steam on those sub stacks. And Dr. Buckler, where else do you like people to go other than your book? I get it every day. The best place to find me is thebookonmasks.com. I don't want the cost to be a limiting factor for anyone. So if they just email me, philip at the book on mask.com and say, Hey,

uh, please send me the, send me the PDF version of the book. I'll send you the PDF version of the book for free. Uh, the audio book versions, it's on audible, but it's also on YouTube for free and rumble at least.

And YouTube hopefully will won't take it down anytime in the near future. Congratulations. Dr. Buckler and Dr. Alexander. Great to see you again, gentlemen. I hope to see you again in the near future

thank you for having us you got it and coming up I know Caleb threw up there at the beginning of the show we have Dr. Joseph Latipo in there tomorrow Aaron Cariotti and Meryl Nass that's a very powerful combo love to get an update on what's going on

in the Supreme Court there John Bowden coming in Tulsi Gabbard. Mike Benz coming back. Kelly Victor and Brian Hooker. I think I'm away that day. Is that right, Susan? And I think they're going to actually take over that day. Yes. Yeah.

So one more date to be. You have to go to Las Vegas to see Vince at V-Shred. Right, right, right. And we will be from New York next week. So look forward to that. I have a very interesting thing to do with Greg Gutfeld. I will just telegraph it that way on Monday. So keep-

Monday, tune into Gutfeld. Just keep an eye out for that. Or put it on your DVR or your YouTube or your YouTube TV or your Subo or Peacock. Very special Gutfeld that I was privileged to be a part of. Peacock. So far looking good. All right, so everybody, thank you, Susan. Thank you, Caleb.

Thank you, Emily Barsh for getting the show together. We appreciate you all for supporting us. Please do. One of the mysteries to me is that you guys aren't getting on true Niagen the way I suggest you do. You're really making an error on that one. That is the one of a couple of supplements that I am super clear impacts longevity. And people not, you're taking it, aren't you?

I hope you're doing it. I'm good. Yeah, it's a thousand milligrams a day. All right, good. Because that is one piece of, there's just excellent data on that. And then of course, our friends at the Wellness Company, be prepared on that front.

We've got some very interesting things coming out through them. Look forward to a store here on my website that you'll be able to, and of course, our friends at MyPillow. Do I have to read a MyPillow thing, Caleb? Is that coming up here? No, I just put it up on the screen. They can just go get anything they want and use promo code Drew or even promo code Dr. Drew. And we just received a shipment. Get your beach towels and your covers.

We got a shipment from them, the beach towels. So people need to know about True Niagen, which we need to bring to light. It's not just for old people. No, no, no, no. You take more as you get older. In fact, no, no. It helps with fertility. It helps with all the things that everybody needs.

Here's the thing about longevity. You need to start early, both resistance training, managing your diet and weight, and things like trunigen, fatty 15 is something I'll be supporting. There's other things out there that really are substantially important in terms of the longevity phenomenon. And NAD is part of the story. Now, I mean, you can never say categorically that's going to do a certain amount or measurably amount, but all the data I've seen, I've had my eye on that data for a long time.

Look, I'm certainly not going to stop. Let's put it that way. And I don't want Susan to stop. So in any event, we appreciate everybody's support here. Oh, I have one more thing. Yeah. I have lights. I am lit.

But you don't have a camera. I know. I have, while we were gone, Jose, our lighting guy, put up our NAN lights. So I actually look good. I know. I want to see it. So I might actually have a camera. I know.

I want to see it. We've got to get a camera for Susan. She showed me a screenshot. It looks great. These lights are incredible. It is. Yeah, it's crazy. It takes about 50 years off of you.

So if you guys need lighting for yourself on Zoom, check out NAN light. I'll show a picture of the panel. It's really cool. All right. We're getting a little... Come on. We got to support all our sponsors.

That's how we keep this show afloat. I understand. And they don't really... They don't pay us. They just send us all this great equipment and I can't tell you

how happy I am. Yes. It's been extraordinary. I might actually be on camera. But more importantly, we appreciate your guys' support. It lets us keep doing this and it just is something that we enjoy doing. I feel enlightened doing. be on camera. But more importantly, we appreciate your guys' support. It lets us keep doing this,

and it just is something that we enjoy doing. I feel enlightened doing. I feel outraged and emotional about some of it sometimes. And we've talked to a lot of interesting people, learned a lot of interesting things, and it's because of your support. So we appreciate you being there and doing this. And we'll be back tomorrow at our usual time, three o'clock. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. 3 o'clock Pacific time. Everybody good on that? All right. We'll see you then tomorrow with Dr. Joseph Latipo, the Surgeon General of the state of Florida. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky.

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