Ask Dr. Drew - Epstein Accuser Anouska de Georgiou: Was Diddy A CIA Blackmail Asset? w/ Emilie Hagen LIVE From Sean “Diddy” Combs Trial in Manhattan – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 491

Episode Date: June 8, 2025

British model Anouska de Georgiou was the first Briton to publicly accuse Jeffrey Epstein of abuse. “I was a victim and it has taken me many years to stand here,” she told a Manhattan courtroom. Why was Epstein protected for so long – and why are there so many odd similarities between his case and Sean “Diddy” Combs? Multiple sources, including a book by security consultant Ari Ben-Menashe, allege Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell ran a honey-trap operation for government intelligence groups, gathering blackmail against politicians, celebrities, and scientists. Epstein’s 36 meetings with ex-Israeli PM Ehud Barak and a 2016 Middle East jet trip fuel speculation, along with uncertainty about the sources of Epstein’s wealth. Anouska De Georgiou is a celebrity case manager for mental health and addiction. She founded the Kintsugi Foundation to support women in recovery. A survivor of Epstein and Maxwell’s abuse, she now advocates for trauma survivors. More at https://instagram.com/anouskadegeorgiou Emilie Hagen is a journalist reporting on the Diddy trial. She shares the latest from the trial in Manhattan on Emily Knows Everything on Instagram. More at https://instagram.com/emilieknowseverything 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/sponsors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • ACTIVE SKIN REPAIR - Repair skin faster with more of the molecule your body creates naturally! Hypochlorous (HOCl) is produced by white blood cells to support healing – and no sting. Get 20% off at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/skinrepair⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • VSHREDMD – Formulated by Dr. Drew: The Science of Cellular Health + World-Class Training Programs, Premium Content, and 1-1 Training with Certified V Shred Coaches! More at https://vshredmd.com/ • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and Susan Pinsky (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/firstladyoflov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠e⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You hear that? Ugh, paid. And done. That's the sound of bills being paid on time. But with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card, paying your bills could sound like this. Yes! Earn rewards for paying your bill in full and on time each month.

Rise to rewards with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card. Terms and conditions apply. All right, a bit of a different focus today, but a good day to be having this conversation. Given the conversation so-called going on between Elon Musk and the president on X, seems like a good day to be talking about Epstein and about Diddy.

We're gonna get an on the scene interview. Oh yeah, some Elon Musk action there. Apparently, part of the reason that the Epstein's file was not released is perhaps that Donald Trump was, I don't know the truth or not, but we have somebody who was victimized by that group. We have Anushka Dejorju. She is, I'm gonna get the name right eventually, Anushka,

I promise. It's, you can follow her on YouTube, you can follow her on Instagram, I'll give you the specifics in a minute. And then on the ground there in New York City at the courtroom is Emily Knows Everything, Emily Hagan, Emily Knows Everything on IG, she's been reporting there for weeks.

There she is, and we'll cut to her after we return, after a few words from the people that make this show possible. Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic. Because of social media and pornography. PTSD.

Love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f**king sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying. You go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician.

I observe things about these chemicals. but just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you might help stop it. I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. I'm excited to bring you a new product, a new supplement, FATI. I take it, I make Susan take it, take it, my whole family takes it.

This comes out of, believe it or not, dolphin research. The Navy maintains a fleet of dolphins and a brilliant veterinarian recognized that these dolphins sometimes developed a syndrome identical to our Alzheimer's disease. Those dolphins were deficient in a particular fatty acid. She replaced the fatty acid and they didn't get the Alzheimer's. Humans have the same issue and we are more deficient in this particular fatty acid than ever before.

And a simple replacement of this fatty acid called C15 will help us prevent these syndromes. It's published in a recent journal called Metabolites. It's a new nutritional C15, penta-decanoic acid it's called. The deficiency that we are developing for C15 creates something called the cellular fragility syndrome. This is the first nutritional deficiency syndrome to be discovered in 75 years and may be affecting us in many ways and as many as one in three of us. This is an important breakthrough. Take advantage of it.

Go to fatty15.com slash Dr. Drew to receive 15% off a 90-day starter kit subscription or use code Dr. Drew to check out for that 15% off or just go to our website DrDrew.com slash fatty 15. And what goes hand in hand with the fatty supplement for longevity, don't forget the VShredMD.com, the NR Boost and the Cinnosync, both of which I reloaded my supply this morning. I am very hot on these supplements.

I put them together myself and it's nicotinamide riboside and PQQ and the NR Boost. And it is Fisoten and resveratrol. Just a brief thing on resveratrol with the NK killers being knocked out, our T cells by COVID and the COVID vaccine. Resveratrol all of a sudden has some really interesting utility.

Check those things out. Please check it out over there. And don't forget the fatty while you are at it. These are all things I insist my family take and I take. So let's get into the specifics today. First in the studio, we have Anushka D'Giorgio. God, why did that? My, she and I were speaking a little French before

and it's screwing me up completely. You can follow her on YouTube, Anuska-degiorgio. The anuska is A-N-O-U-S-K-A. De-Giorgio is spelled D-E-G-E-O-G-I-O-U. Did I get it? R. R. G-O-R-G-I-O-U.

That's my weird, I have a little tiny whiff of dyslexia. I couldn't see the R. And also on Instagram, it's just her name, one word. Check it out, you see it up here on the screen. And she's the founder of the Kintsugi Foundation, tell us about that. So the Kintsugi Foundation was founded some years ago now and what I wanted was a place that women could go

if they'd suffered from trauma, from addiction, from any kind of PTSD, any kind of dual diagnosis, mental health issues. They could go as a safe haven where they would get free treatment if they needed it. And they would also be able to get complementary therapies. And we had massage and we had great therapist art therapy. How are you not inundated with cases?

Well, we were. We were. I don't want to overwhelm the system, but man, if you're offering quality services and you're offering them needs blind, they will come. You had to qualify and you had to also, and one of the things that I'm sure you might understand with your background is you had to make a selection

of who would be allowed in based on who would be suitable for the group, because the group comes first. Okay. So we had to make sure that we made appropriate selections with people who would match up. And you're still doing it? We don't have a residential facility anymore, but we do offer scholarship treatments in other areas.

That's a huge deal. So I kind of get overwhelmed when I get on this topic, because I feel like the magnitude, we have let this disease run amok for so long that we have hundreds of thousands of people in really serious shape. And I wonder if you see it the way I do, that it's just, it's sort of, it's so disturbing

that we allow this to happen without any, I mean, people are allowed to go on using drugs, consequence-free, until they die. And they are dying, they're obliging, that's what the disease does. Yeah, and the key word that you use, so appropriately as consequence, because in this country particularly,

but also in the UK where I'm from, it seems that we really truly enable people that you use so appropriately as consequence, because in this country particularly, but also in the UK where I'm from, it seems that we really truly enable people to be able to continue to use drugs, to continue to indulge in- Here we give them the rigs and the drugs in this day, in the name of being kind, and they will die, that will kill them, it progresses.

And to me, it's just such a disgusting thing, and no one's being held accountable for it. Talk about consequence, the people doing this should be held accountable. 100%, 100%. And also we need to put in systems that enable for people to not become drug addicts. Well, tell me what you mean by that

because that's another loaded topic. How do people recover from trauma or not be victimized, that kind of thing? So I think we're looking at supporting people that's another loaded topic. and so relevant to today's conversation is what incentivizes somebody who's being victimized to come forward. How do you get out if you're being victimized? I know that's another gigantic topic, but before I go to Emily, I'm going to let you,

since we're on that topic, just kind of give us a little primer on that. So I would say how you get out is you find somebody, hopefully a professional, who you can trust. I would say find a good therapist that you can tell your story to. Somebody who you know is bound by confidentiality. And you were being victimized in the Epstein situation, yes? That's correct, for over 10 years.

For over 10 years. I mean, that kind of chronicity makes it extra super hard to get out, right? It does for many reasons. There are many facets to that particular dynamic, and I'm sure we'll hear more about that with the Diddy case, and there are quite a few similarities. But I think also it's a better time to be able to come forward. After the Me Too movement, there were many more things in place for people to be able to come forward, be believed, and be supported.

Interesting. Well, we're going to dovetail this conversation, that's Anushka's story there that Caleb just had put up, into the story in New York City with the Diddy trial. We're going to hear from the, what should we call Emily, the ultimate source on the Diddy trial, because Emily knows everything. Emily knows everything, and that's the name of her Instagram

and it's very appropriate. And certainly Emily knows everything about this trial. So there it is. Give us an update and the latest. I know, and then I kind of want your, I want your 30,000 foot assessment of things too. Well, I just left the courtroom today and they just introduced

the main they call her the most important witness of the entire trial, which is the second victim and it's Jane Doe. The entire courtroom was told we cannot describe her. We cannot dox her, but the internet has already done that. So when I left the courtroom today, it didn't even take two seconds and I logged online and people were already figuring out what it was. I'm not gonna say who it is because I could get kicked out of the courtroom, but.

People don't want- Can you give us the kind of why is she important? Why is all the intrigue? That's what the prosecution said today to the judge. They said, judge, but this is our most important witness yet. So the prosecutor said that to the judge. We don't know yet. We're about to find out. There's a lot. I don't know where you want to start. We don't know. Today was just hurt. Today was just more baby oil, more freak offs, more red light, more hotel sex. And on her point,

I'm like, they're describing how amazing these drugs make them feel. And I'm like, I kind of want to do ecstasy again. That's one of my fears of this whole trial is that it's going to glorify. Yeah, glorify, or at least in your people to how f'd up this all is. I posted a video yesterday about how it's making people horny or freakier and tons of comments said that they feel like they want to go try a lot of stuff. Awesome.

Well, that will have consequences, speaking of consequences. So what do you expect to hear when you go back in this afternoon? We're done for the day. Court adjourned at four, We went an extra hour. We're going to be back tomorrow. This witness is they're expecting her on the stand for four more days,

five days total. And today they kind of just laid the groundwork. They basically wanted to set up the relationship between her and Diddy. She's a grown woman. She was not under a contract with him. She was, they were in an adult relationship today. Everyone was like, well, this is consensual. And, and we remember the first day, there's always like nothing in the first day. But what we're going to be looking for the next couple days is the coercion. Right now, we haven't seen that yet. So far, she said she participated in the freak offs because she loved Diddy so much that she wanted to please her man and that she just wanted to make him happy and aroused.

So far we have not heard anything about him forcing her to do it, but we are expecting that the prosecution would not have done this whole thing for nothing, right? Or would they have? That's what we need to figure out. And I don't even understand any longer what he's being accused of.

I mean, it feels like the defense is sort of conceding this guy did horrible shit. He did some bad stuff Around what Rico around what what they're trying to say that Enterprises was help people at Sean Combs enterprises were helping Sean Combs carry out his crimes So yesterday there was a witness that took the stand that worked at the Intercontinental Hotel. A lot of people said this proved the Rico because that video of Cassie getting assaulted in the hallway. Diddy wanted to make sure that video never saw the light of day so he bribed the hotel person and they had him come in and then they talked about how

his assistant and his security guard showed up with Diddy and paid the guy $100,000 to make sure that that video never saw the light of day and they all had to sign NDGaze that if they were Like to ever speak about it. They would owe a million dollars these employees were only making $10.50 an hour So this 100k was a lot to them. So they're saying that proves the Rico right there the bribery so the Yeah, I know I know bribery bribery goes to Rico this bribery Yeah, but there was a list in the record Yeah, I'm weird. I don't understand law enough to really understand all this but okay

But what is your sense of I wonder if you believe that there's any one of the one of the big sort of question marks over everybody had is is this in any way like an Epstein type situation? Going into the trial that's what we all thought it was we thought that we were going to be hearing huge names that this is going to be this huge Hollywood music industry had a file ring. And so far, all we're hearing, we're not hearing that at all. We're hearing stories about Sean Combs, his girlfriend, and then male exports. That's all we're hearing so far. There hasn't been many big names named. There was Jimmy Iovine and Andre Harrah, the only two names. During Capricorn Clark's testimony, she said that after she left Bad Boy and got fired

by Diddy that he made it impossible for her to get a job in the music industry. That Jimmy Iovine said, come to my office at Interscope, I will help you with these job opportunities. But once she got to the office, it was a setup and he said, don't mess with Puff, if you do it'll end badly for you. So far that is the only big name we have heard so far and that was all that has been said. We are not seeing Ashton Kutcher having sex with kids in bushes. We are not seeing Leonardo DiCaprio climbing out of a cake and raping a Disney star. We're not seeing any of that. So the public is very bored with the trial.

My views are totally down. People do not care, which is terrible that that's what they want. Although, of course, although your reporting is second to none, I would judge your preoccupation to this trial, with this trial to be a little bit unhealthy. I'm worried about you. But any event.

I don't care about the trial that much. I'm already organized. I want to go to the sex. Yeah. You want to go to the parties? There's a sex cult on trial next week that I want to go to. Fantastic.

Only good things can come of this. I'm going to be like, oh, J Simpson. So it's important to have people that dedicate their time to do it, not to be like, oh, J Simpson. So I'm going to be like, oh, J Simpson. So I'm going to be like, oh, J Simpson. So I'm going to be like, oh, J Simpson. So I'm going to be like, oh, J Simpson. So I'm going to be like, oh, J Simpson. So I'm going to be like, oh, J Simpson. So I'm going to be like, oh, J Simpson.

So I'm going to be like, oh, J Simpson. So I'm going to be like, oh, J Simpson. So I'm going to be like, oh, J Simpson. They're saying this could be like, it could be like OJ Simpson. So it's important to have people that dedicate their time to do it. Not their life, but their time. No, and you're, listen, and I find, not only do you find your reporting excellent

and your recall and detail about helping us understand what's going on in the courtroom, it's very entertaining. And I appreciate how you present it. Good thing it is entertaining because if it wasn't entertaining I don't think I would have the time. No, no, no, no, no, no. The courtroom is entertaining. You're entertaining. No, it's entertaining in there. It's like a circus inside the courtroom. That's why I'm able to bring that energy out because if this was like, so far we're not seeing like really serious stuff

This is like really serious stuff. I would already be on a plane back to LA. That's not the stuff I want to come All right, so a lot of this stuff is clickbait like Tell them the story about how you were in the elevator and with that bodyguard and how it turned into a bunch of lies I mean you have to sort of explain how We all think all these bad things are going to happen, but it's just really not, either the witnesses that they want are not coming through. All right, you can tell that, sir,

but then I've got a, I want to bring, I want to question some. Yeah, it's kind of a long story. Well, just, yeah, you can do, basically a bouncer threw this guy out of an elevator and Emily was the witness. I was the only witness and then all these rumors were saying that he knocked him out but the reality was he didn't. He like the guys he like he like grabbed his chain and he kind of like did one of these and then the entire internet they were all these influencers were pretending that they were the witness and then the the security guard said, Oh yeah, I knocked him out.

Then the guy goes, who didn't knock me out? And just all these lies. And then all these mainstream media outlets picked up the story. Like it's cause there's not a lot happening inside. Like we're not hearing a lot yet. So they're looking for stories like this to occupy the newsfeed and the headlines.

I hope you learn how shitty the mainstream media is, how they pick up on lies and innuendo and purported as fact It's China actually actually I'm this trial has made me like the mainstream media, which is crazy so far what I've Because they're the ones not reporting bullshit and that people that are not mainstream media are spreading lies online Everyday Susan sending me some line every Every morning I wake up to Susan sending me a TikTok that's totally bullshit and she goes did this happen in court? No they did not play Prince's reporting. No Jennifer Lopez did not come

out of a cake. It did not happen. Mainstream media is not being salacious at all with their reporting but TikTokers are. So there's people in their bedrooms making up fake things for clicks and it's far more dangerous than anything the mainstream media is doing. And I can't even believe I'm saying that. Well, how about the fact that people believe everything they see in social media? They should. It's one thing to look at is another thing to go, that's the fact. Trump made us because he said it was fake news. It put a lot of trust into the independent journalist.

But now we have to question independent journalists too. Like people should be questioning me every day. Andrew, question to you too. Emily, I have decided, not only do I not know what's true and what isn't, I don't know what's right and what's wrong. I don't know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. It's all, at first I thought I just couldn't believe what was being reported in the news.

Now I don't even know what to think about anything. So I have to sit back and just wait for the evidence to come in and then assess the quality of the evidence, which is already suspect. But I want to ask this. So this is another conspiracy sort of twist, which is James Comey's daughter is the lead prosecuting attorney, right?

And is she in any way protecting people that could be called out in a case like this? So that's a big theory online. Maureen Comey is the lead prosecutor. So far, she's the strongest prosecutor on the stand. As Mark Garagos said, it's a six pack of white women. These girls are whiter than me. Elizabeth Meredith, and then you got Marine Colby. Marine Colby is the strongest, I would say. All of the other prosecutors are pretty like, hello, what is your name?

Marine is strong. Could she be, today I was literally watching, being like, is she, is this a big conspiracy? And I was like, it would take a lot to pull that off. Everything does feel pretty organic inside, but the case itself doesn't feel. Okay. There was a guy sitting next to me that said. He was, I'm like, are you a reporter?

He said, no, I'm just here because I hate the government. And I think the government is overreaching and overstepping on a famous person in this case. So he was there like calling things out today. And he believes Maureen, callby is definitely part of this like conspiracy. There's a lot of conspiracies surrounding why this trial is even happening because we know a lot of other celebrities participating in similar acts so people want to know why is Diddy the one that finally got caught with this a lot of stuff. Well

they think it's because he sued Diageo. That's like one big theory in the courtroom, but there's no proof yet of anything. What do you know about Maureen Comey? Do you believe that one? I told you, I just finished telling you, I don't believe anything ever from anybody about anything.

I'm not even sure Maureen Comey is a person. So, so. I know. I knew she was a guy. No, this trial's making me not believe anything. Wait, hold on. Hang on, Anusha's here. She was victimized by the Epstein trial.

We were trying to dovetail these topics together, but you knew Marine Comey? Well, yes, because Marine Comey prosecuted for the government against Gillian Maxwell. Oh, interesting. And she is a phenomenal attorney. And what is motivating her? What's her, what do you think she is?

She is, first of all, she's very ambitious. Yeah. Second of all, she's- So she likes the high profile cases. Yes. Okay. She is also, I mean, I have seen her become incredibly emotional at the plight

of victims of crimes of this type. She seems very personally invested. So this is, so I just summarize, yeah, sort of why she's in this case. She's invested in this topic, and she's ambitious and was going for the ones that have the biggest splash.

And so to Anushka's point, Emily, it's possible she will do more with other celebrities in the future if they can have similar impact I suppose if indeed it involves trafficking of women and violence against women Yeah, I agree with she's very strong. And I mean this woman is like kind of like plain jane She's not like this cloud chasing lawyer that wants attention like she seems to be in it for the right reasons But because of her father no one trusts her

She seems to be in it for the right reasons, but because of her father no one trusts her It's a go we're in such a weird Government and because he works for the government nobody trusts her like today We're listening to them tell stories about a consensual relationship between Sean combs this Jane Doe. She's a grown woman She was not under the bad boy label. He was not her boss He was not anything but a boyfriend and she said he wanted One time he said, you want to make this pornography fantasy reality? She said sure. And then they started the freak offs. There was no coercion yet. There was no abuse or violence yet. So people were sitting there like, why is the government making something out of nothing? But there's still a few weeks left of the trial. So anything is possible. But a lot

of people today were like a little bit suspicious of the government Let's let's do a more subtle dive for both of you. I'll start with you Emily Women being exploited. I don't know even how to frame this in a way that can be useful But women wanting to impress or make happy men that they have an attraction or a closeness to, particularly when there's a power imbalance. Isn't that already a circumstance that's gonna end in trouble?

I think the argument they're making is that she's not, she wasn't trying to be a singer. She's not trying to be in the music industry. She was just his girlfriend. I understand. I'm talking about the misadventures of romance when there's a power imbalance is really what I'm talking about.

And it was just shaking. Probably, I mean, he was love bombing her. Yeah, he was love bombing her. Love bombing. I mean, that's what people are saying. Like she described the early days of the relationship as him just like Being so passionate so sweet

Just stop telling her everything she wanted to hear and then like once the honeymoon phase stopped That's when he introduced these fantasies these cock-holed fantasies I love how it got close to my face when I said cock-holed fantasy Yeah fantasy. There's a lot I want to say, but I can't dox the witness. But once people find out, there's going to be a lot of context missing from what I'm saying. But basically, yeah, there was a power imbalance, obviously, but the witness didn't talk about that at all. She didn't say that once, where like Cassie did. Well, I don't know if she's even aware of it. So Anushka, this must be an issue

that you guys have thought a lot about. He said she just loved him because he was charming. See, this is the thing. It's, how do you know that you were attracted to and being courted, quite literally what he was doing, although it was actually a manipulative effort, you're being courted or manipulated? And how do you, and certain people,

trauma survivors, get sucked into these things. What do you advise women? Well, I'd advise women to always have somebody that they can talk to who has more experience, who maybe is qualified, let people know. Or when this is going on, when it starts, no one thinks anything is going on. They think they're in love. They think this is wonderful. Or at least whatever, that would be a good time.

But that's why coercive control is so difficult to catch. Yes. Because it is very pervasive. It's very insidious. Yes. It's one of those things that it's like, okay, does the person who becomes a victim, are they choosing it? Am I choosing this? Is this something that I like?

And do you even know what you like anymore? Right, right, right, right. We're going to sort all that out when I come back after the break. Yeah, and so far we haven't gotten to the part of her testimony where she talks about the coercion yet. Right now we're just a step, Marine Colony is just setting up the part of her testimony where she talks about the coercion yet. Right now we're just, Marine Comey is just setting up the stage for her testimony. They haven't introduced any of the fear

of the violence of the coercion yet. We're just hearing about why she was so in love with this guy and she just described like- But I'm hearing, of course, I know where this goes. I know what the end of the story is, but I see all of that as the same thing. It's just the beginning of a manipulative process to get somebody into your,

it's probably an addictive web, I don't know. Anything about him? Go ahead. Yeah, because we've heard stories about, because I've been in court for a month listening to every Diddy sex story, I never asked for it. guess I kind of did I cut it here but I'm like oh I see what he was as someone that knows his history I can see the manipulation happening as I'm listening to her testimony but she was probably unaware

of his sexual history she said at the beginning of the relationship he said he wanted to be non-monogamous and she was okay with that But she only had eyes for him He made it clear. He like had other partners but Yeah, because I knew Settling for stuff. I knew he loved freak off some baby oil and male esports and they have a jacket off in a corner I knew it was about to come So alright, so so listen, so I'm gonna let you go in a couple of minutes here, but, but what,

what do we imagine is up with Diddy? Is this drug addiction, sex addiction, all addiction? We were on drugs the entire, every story is him doing ketamine, molly, cocaine, ecstasy for days at a time. These people weren't getting sleep, neither was Diddy. The girl never did drugs. I heard opiates. Weren't there opiates in the mix too? Did I hear that? But Cassie Ventura was addicted to some prescription pills.

This is a good point you brought up. Today the witness said that she wasn't a big girl, she wasn't into drugs until she met Diddy. And she only had done Molly twice prior to their relationship. And then every single time they ever hung out, basically they were on Molly. The first trip they took to Turks and Caicos,

they were on Molly. Nine days, 10 Molly pills. So nine days in Turks and Caicos, 10 Molly pills. So that's also probably why she fell in love. That's an interesting- It might be why she's depressed now. Yeah, that's true. Cause after you do a lot of ecstasy,

the brain is depleted of chemicals, sometimes permanently. But, but, you know, he may have gotten her addicted also, right? So this comes to co-addiction. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, this girl, it was clear this girl wasn't a drug addict prior

and Cassie is same. So, um, but did Cassie end up in addiction? Did she come up to that? Did she talk about recovery? She was so addicted that even when she was stealing drugs from friends, having, they had the drug dealer yesterday on the stand, they talked about how addicted Cassie was to drugs throughout the entire relationship, even when Diddy wasn't around, she was seeking it out.

So I'll tell you what's not being reported here, because I kind of smelled this from the beginning. Which is this is just addiction. This is just addicts being addicts together. Sex addiction. It's sex addiction, drugging. It's a big old addiction story. And it's chronic and it's severe. And because celebrities don't have to have the same consequences as the rest of us, for drugging is a big old addiction story. And it's chronic and it's severe.

And because celebrities don't have to have the same consequences as the rest of us, they have money, they don't have an employer, they don't have family dragging them in. And so it just goes and goes and goes. Much the way on the streets we talked about earlier, people go until they die. In this getting of celebrities,

they go until they get sick, they can't work, they dysfunctional work, they get arrested, they get sick they can't work they dysfunctional work they get arrested they get sick they get ill they get arrested it's actually good because they don't die correct well they don't typically die necessarily although plenty have right it's just they just keep going until they do horrible horrible things and that's a function of the addiction well I posted yesterday I spoke to someone on Diddy's team who was like, Hey, sis! They were like, look at, they were like, look at.

You're a racist? Is that what they said? They said, I love you, sis. They said, I, he said, Diddy's sober now. She goes, Diddy's sober, he's been sober. She goes, this is someone on Diddy's team, mind you. She said, he's sober now. She goes he was a drug addict She told me that he was a drug addict So I posted something about how if Diddy walked say he gets off free I think like tons of girls are gonna want to have sex with him because that's not too much in our society is

And I said but if he is sober I don't think he's gonna be having these 40 freak offs anymore because he needed the drugs to keep keep himself going and then all These people started attacking me saying, what do you mean he's sober? He's obviously doing drugs in prison. You don't just get sober in prison. They were like, and I was like, I don't even think about that.

Is he doing the 12 step? Well, I don't know. I understand that, Emily, we need to have a long talk about what sober means. Sober is not abstinence. I have no problem believing he's abstinent at the present moment, but he's not in a program of recovery and getting better.

By the way, I always wonder why people don't use that as a defense when they get in situations like this. Like I was sick, I'm in recovery now, I'm going to hold me accountable to that for the rest of my life. I have to make an amends. They are going to use that. They talked about it during opening statements how they're going to use that. They are going to use that. They talked about it during opening statements

how they're going to have like a psychiatrist or some doctor on the stand to talk about what these drugs do to the human brain. I hope they don't call me. Hopefully you don't get the P-med. But he also has to be sober from sex addiction. So he can't have a freak off. He can't do a drug.

He can't drink alcohol. He can't do a drug. He can't drink alcohol. He can't smoke pot. He can't take ketamine. He can't even take a sleeping pill. That's sobriety. And he has to be in recovery and do the 12 steps and go to meetings every day, up to three times a day, up to 10 times a day.

And make amends to when it gets to that point. That's gonna be quite a task for him. But listen. And he has to be followed by somebody. Yes, that's true. But, Emily, Caleb has a question for you before I let you go. Yeah, real quick question, Emily.

I think I voiced this on a Susan show a few weeks ago, but I have this strange conspiracy theory that they're going, they're over prosecuting P Diddy, knowing that they're not going to get any of this stuff to stick. It seemed like a Rico case is so much larger than if they had gone after him for the five smaller things of assault and battery and abuse and all of these things. Do you see any signs of that where it's like, this is a case that's meant to fail because they don't actually want him.

They're doing a show trial. It's a lot of money and time and effort. I mean, he's an asset. That's what I'm, you know, I asked it. He's got brother when he thought about that He said he thinks that they thought they had more and then it's like one you'd like He said he explained it like they thought they had more than they actually had that's how he feels And they got a little like ahead of themselves But then once they actually looked at the evidence, it wasn't as much as they originally thought. But also the statute of limitations is why they couldn't get him on the other stuff.

Oh, I see. And so you're thinking the Cassie video might be the worst thing they have on him. Like the worst actual video evidence they have to use or the most damning one. So far, yeah. Yeah. And like a lot of the other crimes. Let's try it a little light. Yeah, it's really a. It's like a lantern as they say.

Wait, but somebody was cleaning up the pizza boxes and I think that meant videos, right? So they threw away the pizza boxes. Remember when he was in jail and he called his son and he said, make sure you throw away the pizza boxes? Yeah, you know, there was a big conspiracy too with like, why didn't they raid one star island?

That was his second property Miami and his son made the song saying you rated the wrong property. So that was really I made a video on that it went viral because everyone's like, that's a good point. Did he had two huge properties in Miami on one star island and two star island and the prosecutors made a point to ask the Homeland Security agent, what's the neighboring property of two star island? And he says one star island. And they're like, did you also write that? And they're

like, no. And then they just moved on. I'm like, what are you guys, are you guys trying to like plant little like conspiracies or is there, they never said why they didn't read his other property. And if it's kind of sitting in court and has a song on radio. That's about reading the wrong property. You wonder why that's not being talked about Conspiracy like what's that where the body let's let's Know there we are we're back hold on I'm not sure if that's the right word. There we are, we're back, hold on. But let's make sure we make explicit what Caleb's conspiracy theory is. His conspiracy theory is that Diddy's an asset

and they had to doom the trial to failure to protect their asset. Yes, that's what I'm thinking. I mean, that's my conspiracy theory is that. Well, so, Emily, have they had any indication? Like, surely there's tons and tons of tapes. Do they have indication that the FBI has those now or has no one mentioned these tapes that Diddy supposedly has?

I asked Diddy's godbrother, where are the tapes? He goes, there are no tapes. There are no celebrity tapes. There are none. This was a consensual relationship. He would film his girlfriend having sex. That was it with the escorts. That is it.

He said there are no tapes, but I know he's been nice to have those tapes. In spite of his addictive, if indeed this is all accurate, in spite of his horrible behavior under the influence of drugs and his addiction, should we feel bad for Diddy? That was what I titled my first article. I feel bad for Diddy was the first sub-stack I put out.

Only because he said he was nervous and I felt his like energy. But I mean, there's moments where I feel bad for everybody in this trial. I is there all addicts and this hasn't this hasn't become a me to moment right like there aren't unless there are people that were victims are just not going for it um that was the room right beginning all right here what we're gonna do. We're gonna let Emily go.

Emily's arm has got to be tired from standing out there in front of City Hall. What we're gonna do, Emily appreciates the reporting. I'm sorry guys, I really wish I could talk about Kanye too. You, but you, Kanye, that's for later. But I walk away with the same feeling you have, which is I feel sad for all these people.

It is a very sad, sick story. I think we're gonna get right down to it. Yeah, and I think that is the correct instinct on this. Oh, Anushka and I are gonna break this all down. Thank you, Emily. We'll talk soon, no doubt. All right, bye guys, thank you. Peace out.

Cheers. And when we get back, Anushka is gonna tell her backstory because a lot of people may not know that, and we're going to kind of really dig a little deeper into what we just heard about and how these things happen and what people can do about it. It is, well, and then we've also got Elon Musk and Donald Trump fighting it out today,

but we've gone a very different direction than I expected, which is this is the sad, not sad, this is the story of the addictive process in the modern world and how poorly it is understood and how much it runs amok and how much damage it does. So we're right back up to this. The wellness company knows that taking charge of your family's healthcare is a top priority and that's why they're constantly innovating to deliver the products and services to help you be rationally ready.

Be sure to have the medical kit for kids on hand, whether you're a parent or grandparent. It treats 20 childhood conditions, including nausea and vomiting, allergies, asthma, inflammatory illnesses, even bioterror, God forbid. Listen, croup, ear infections, lice, it's all available in the pediatric emergency kit. You can also order the kids kit with an EpiPen should your child be at risk of anaphylaxis. And those EpiPens are carefully sourced and well priced relative to other EpiPens in the market.

All seven kits, each customized for a different purpose, come with a telemedicine consultation and a guidebook. Skip the scramble to an urgent care waiting room full of sick people and expense or a pharmacy where there's no guarantee they'll have what you need. Go to drdrew.com slash TWC for 10% off any medical emergency kit or the supplements for that matter. That again is drdrew.com slash TWC. So I've traveled with my hyaluronic acid serum for my face, which I use every day.

And we also brought along the active skin repair. Thank goodness, because I wounded myself. I'll show you the wound as we go. I don't want to pull the dressing up just yet. But the hypochlorous acid in this was used, I used it as an antibacterial. It's been proven as an antimicrobial, and the thing is healing beautifully,

like better than ever, like it feels great. Here's a picture of what it looked like before I put the dressing on. I was delighted with the effects of the active skin repair. Pypechlorous acid is antimicrobial, it's been clinically proven, and this thing is healing well without difficulty. If you'd like some, go to doctor.com slash skin repair.

I'm now free to enjoy my trip, not worry about infection, not worry about bleeding all over the place. This has been working beautifully. And I can get on and keep traveling. Hey, Dr. Drew. Dr. Drew. You wanna spend the whole session talking about Dr. Drew?

There you go, even you call him Dr. Drew. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right,. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave.

I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave.

I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave.

I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Dave. I'm Dr. Well, that stuff saved my life. There have been two different ways that we put them both in that little description. So.

I love that Croatian backdrop. And where was that? And that big boo boo on your arm. I know, that was, the Italians don't concern themselves with form, function. They only worry about form. And their weight rack was razor sharp. It just took off half my arm.

But I had active skin repair. We had the active skin repair, thank goodness. And also don't forget the V-Shred MD, everybody. I really want you to check that out. I'm really excited about those products. So do check that out. And we have a lot of information there and videos about what these things are

and how they work. We'll have our own link for that soon. So Anushka, tell us what this was, what happened to you, how it happened to you, and how people can generalize it to understand the... I get overwhelmed by this because there's so much to it. I want to, on one hand, to talk about addiction and the addictive process and how that runs amok, but also there are some subtleties

in how men and women relate and power imbalances that I frankly have been struggling with since Me Too. Like how do we really codify these things? How do we structure people to understand them? Should there be laws to protect people? And then how do those not become excessive? I'm still struggling with it, so go ahead. I think the truth is.

What's the matter? Okay. Okay, I think the truth is there's no perfect system. There isn't a system or a law that you can put in place that it's impossible. What happened to you? What happened to you? Okay, let me tell you.

So I came into the circle of Jeffrey Epstein via Gillian Maxwell when I was 16, 17 years old. Which is sort of the thing, right? She would drag young women in. Right. And this was the MO. And this was how she ended up being convicted. And Maureen Comey was, in fact, one of the prosecutors for the government

against Gillian Maxwell. So I was introduced to Gillian Maxwell. And I kind of want to sort of set the scene because I think there's the phrase grooming is sort of thrown around a lot. Yes. And I think many people perceive it as something that sort of happens to I don't know children in other countries and people who come from a low socio-economic background. No, it can happen to anybody. It can happen to anyone. And particularly skilled sociopaths. They are very good at it.

I do think that most people that I come across don't understand how it really works. So they don't understand how it could happen to maybe their own child or how it could have happened to them. Because it really can, as you say, happen to anyone. You know, when I was 16, I traveled around a lot. I came from a broken family. I had a very outwardly privileged upbringing

growing up in the south of France. And like any 16, 17-year-old, I wanted to hang out with older people. I wanted to be more sophisticated than I was. I had ambitions to become whatever, whatever it is that you think you're going to do. And many of my dreams were really, like many young people, who's going to come along and make this easy, right?

I also was somewhat emotionally fragile and my family had experienced some turbulence. Again, I hope you don't mind me jumping in here and there to sort of expand on little topics to get to the big points. Adverse childhood experiences, people are finally coming to understand what those are. They include divorce, they include domestic abuse, they include somebody using substances.

If you have three or more, you're going to be in trouble. If you have five or more, you're definitely going to be in trouble. And people have a way in this country, particularly probably in Britain too, of minimizing things like divorce. They are profoundly impactful in kids' development. They absolutely are.

And also the damaging thing is when you're experiencing that as a child, you have no frame of reference. You don't understand that everybody is not going through this. And particularly being English, we're kind of like, I can handle it, put on a brave face, everything's going to be fine,

and also I want to take on more than I can, and like every teenager. I want it to be cool, I want it to be accepted, I want it to be successful, and this woman comes along and she's like, you're amazing. Oh yeah. You're amazing, you're my favorite. That's kind of love bombing stuff, right?

Yeah. Hundreds of them. You're amazing is something probably, maybe adults are less prone to it, but teenagers are, you can't resist that, right? Well, you can't risk it. You're special. I see something in you that nobody else sees.

Boom, it's on. And that's because as a young person, you're prone to listening to the only negative opinion of you in the room and then looping that. And especially as a potential addict that I was, I would hold on to that. So somebody who came in negating that one negative opinion or many negative opinions, I was like,

oh my God, this is the key, right? So she comes along, you're amazing, you're my favorite, you're like my sister, let me help you. I just want to know you. It must have felt good for the first time in a long time too. It's a relief in a way, because you were a teen in trouble emotionally. And also to get that sense of family,

because what does everyone from a broken family want? They want to find their family that they belong in, right? Yes, it's gross when I hear and think about it. How was your relationship with your mom? My mother's amazing. My mother is a survivor herself of much difficulty in childhood. Childhood abuse.

So again, that gets transmitted intergenerationally. So what was the effect on you? Just, were you having to take care of her wounds? Or did you- I didn't have to take care of her. I don't think children take care of their parents because they have to. They take care of them because they want to.

Well, I came from traumatized stuff too, and I can remember early, my dreams are very informative, and I can remember dreams of a young child taking care of my parents that became babies in my dream. I was taking care of them. I had no conscious awareness that I was taking care of them or anything. It was just, the dream was, and it was traumatizing. The dream itself was traumatizing.

And I think with broken families, you get a lot of codependency, and it's something that I work with a lot now with the clients I work with, as a case manager, as someone working in substance use disorder, recovery from trauma, etc. and so I got sort of love bond as you said. And that process was, honestly it was amazing. There's nothing better than the feeling of being love bond because it is everything all at once. Especially when you're at it, you get high.

That's right, that's right. So I was kind of lapping it up and there was nobody present who was able to see these warning signals. This was somebody who was able to see these warning signals. This was somebody who was in good standing. This was somebody who was very wealthy. This was somebody who had many celebrity and wealthy friends.

And she said, you are so lucky because you are going to be invited in. Right? And I thought that I was the luckiest and I thought I had to make this opportunity come to fruition. This is it. This is your break. When she said to me, she would casually talk about Jeffrey Epstein.

She would talk about, oh, my boyfriend is amazing. He's a philanthropist. And I was like, wow, that's amazing. And then she would leave that and come back to talking about us, you know, and our relationship. And then one day my golden ticket arrived because guess what? Anushka, you know, you're so lucky he's here. Can you come now?

Can you come over? Right? And I was- And you were 16, 17? Yeah. And I was getting ready because I thought it was some kind of audition. You know, I thought it was like an interview,

and that I had to impress this person, because he was a philanthropist who mainly liked to help young people. And this is when you were living in France still? No, I was actually living back in London. And just around the corner, from where Gillian Maxwell's house was, and we'd been introduced by a mutual friend.

And so I went over there, and when I went over there immediately, and this is part of the grooming thing, I think it's so important to understand, as soon as I walked in, I was put in my place, if you will. So I walked in, Jeffrey Epstein was sitting in the living room and he was on the phone. And he was talking very loudly, sitting legs akimbo, wearing sweatpants. Ghislaine answered the door and she was like, shh, shh. And I was not offered a seat. She sat down, he was sitting down, and I was standing by the front door being quiet.

And already I was feeling small. I was feeling intimidated. I was feeling, am I doing it right? And confused, yeah. I shouldn't move. Yeah. You know? So already I'm getting that sense, right?

And then, you know, this was the beginning, right? And it didn't happen on the first occasion. But slowly, slowly you have these, you have these like little tests. And it's like, oh, just, you know, Anushka is so amazing. Let me tell you about her. Let me tell you how she's, she's, you know, she's going to Oxford University and she has, and just like me,

and I went to Oxford, and she's like family, you know, and we have to help her. So what do you think? And also she does kickboxing, she does martial arts, she's got very strong hands, haven't you? Haven't you got strong hands, you know? And so, you know, it's that thing, every salesman says the phrase, do you know what I mean? Oh, right and they say, you know, don't you agree and it makes you feel like you have to agree and And she said go go over there and just give us feed a little squeeze because show how strong you are

Um, and I felt spoiling the fog. I felt very uncomfortable On the one hand i'm feeling I don't want to do this. But at the same time, it's not an ask, it's not a sexual favor, I'm not going to ask to take my clothes off. So this is how it gets introduced, little by little. And then, when you make a little concession to do something that you don't really want to do, you're rewarded for it. So then it's like, you're a good girl, wonderful, you did so well. Oh my god. He loved you. I love you. We love you

Please come back. So, you know so gross and this is how it develops Is she is she doing this to multiple women simultaneously do you think? Oh, absolutely I know like in different cities and different places same exactly and. Absolutely. And the same exact. And do you think, does she have, is this a studied approach that she's using, that she knows precisely what she's doing? Or is it in response to Epstein's demands that she's engaging in these behaviors that end up being a sales job?

Oil and the Frog. I think they were a perfect match. You know, as you might know, Gillen Maxwell came from a pretty oppressive background, her father being very powerful, very wealthy, very cruel. And also, so I think she kind of learned that skill of how to placate and also how to bring up her own value. You know, how to, up her own value.

You know, how to, what she could do to be the favorite. There were many children, she was one of many children. How did she become the favorite? So I think she was almost perfectly groomed herself for that role. That being said, as an adult, when you choose to bring women and children into an abusive situation, whether or not you were abused, that is your responsibility, that is your choice,

and you should be held accountable. No, that's what I always say, which is same thing with addiction too and stuff, which is, hey, you have a chance to get treatment, get well, but if it crossed over, you hurt other people, now it's the law. That's right. I mean, with the Diddy case, as with the Epstein case,

as with Russell Brand at the moment What we're seeing is People who are celebrities who perhaps will come with a oh, I'm I'm better now. I'm reformed. I was sick Well, if you rob a bank when you're high or drunk, you still have to go to prison, right? So right in but I I still think there's kind of a little bit of a middle ground in that it should be an extenuating circumstance, provided that somebody is truly in recovery, right?

And I've had plenty of recovery patients that have had to go to prison as part of their amends. You just have to, that's cleaning up your side of the street, you did these horrible things, well, that's part of your recovery now, is making good on this stuff. I do think it should be mitigated as much as possible

because people do recover, but by the same token, it certainly shouldn't be denied, it shouldn't be eliminated. Sure, and sometimes some of these reformed men are conveniently reformed just at the moment where they're being asked to. Well, this is a hard, right? This is a hard putt.

How do you make that call? And by the way, I would say I'd want to see evidence of years of recovery before I were to, I would really see some recovery here before I would make any assessment. Absolutely. So let's get back to, so what was your story? So they brought you in and-

So they brought me in and it was, you know, it was piecemeal. It wasn't, it wasn't like, you know, I get asked the craziest things. I bet. I've been asked, you know, I've had people, I mean, just so you know, going through something like a federal trial

is literally, I had to move house. I had to move house into somewhere that was not in my name. I had to not have mail delivered in my name. I was inundated with questions and accusations being told. There was an article written soon after Epstein's dismissal hearing by a very prominent journalist in England and it said Anoush with your naked ambition, we just don't believe you. And so going through something like that, you know, you really start to understand this is not a movie. This is my life being disrupted at no personal gain.

And then as a survivor, what incentivizes me to come forward? I'm being attacked, my integrity is being questioned, I'm being followed, I'm being threatened. And yet, this was so important to me that I felt that I had to do it. And didn't we just have one of the Epstein victims commit suicide? Tell me about that, I really don't know the story there.

Quite emotional for me, honestly. She's somebody you knew. Virginia Dufrey was, she was the one who would not let it go. She was the one who started everything. Without her, no other survivors, he would not have been arrested initially, way back when. This is the Florida case now. She would not have been arrested initially, way back when. This is the Florida case now. Yes.

She would not go away. She was incredibly annoying. She was the squeaky wheel, right? And she kept going to the police, going to the FBI, and eventually she came into contact with Brad Edwards, and Brittany Henderson, Brad Edwards, the crime victim law firm. That was the first case. That was the first case.

It was the first case. And he took it on and took her on as a client and it became an obsession for him too. And because of her and she did so much work, this is a woman who was a child and she was abused for years. And she was indoctrinated and she was, I mean, it was like being in a cult. Oh, 100%.

All this stuff is cult behavior. And the grooming and the cult stuff. Yeah, even if it's what Emily was describing with Diddy and that's a cult of two, that starts to include other people. And it's like being in a family. And that's why it's so confusing. And that's why it's so difficult for people to identify people. Right, and it's like being in a family and that's why it's so confusing and that's why it's so difficult

for people to identify themselves, am I complicit, am I choosing this? And also for other people, you can't see someone's trapped, you know? You can't see someone's trapped when you see them, what looks like they're volunteering. Or have, it's looking like they're having a good time. So Virginia was the one who started everything.

And she was a fierce advocate. And she, you know, she sued everybody. She was willing to, and she never, ever stopped talking about it. And to be honest, that was at her cost. Because she wouldn't just talk as much as she had to. It was almost part of, It was almost like she felt compelled to just continue to talk about it. She had children, and she was obsessed with this subject.

And she was so courageous. No matter what they said about her, she wouldn't go away. She wouldn't stop. And it was because of her that I came to be in touch with Brad Edwards, who became my attorney, because she was in a civil lawsuit. And I found it somewhere sort of on the internet around 10 years ago. And I reached out to the attorney and I said, I'm not coming forward myself, but I would

like to help because I have information. So I came forward and I connected with Brad Edwards, and then we started working together. And then when Epstein died, I decided that it was safe enough for me to come forward. I understand. I'm triggering this for you. It's activating, as they say.

Of course. Yeah. Yeah, so are you okay? We're good? Keep talking? Okay. I've learned to take, of course. Yeah, so are you okay? We're good? Keep talking? Okay. I've learned to take care of myself. I get it, but it's still in your body.

You can't, you know, this is normal. I'm mainly sorry. I'm devastated about her death. And honestly, the trigger part, the part where it's hard for me to stop the tears right now is because with all the work she did, with all the advocacy she did, with all the advocacy she did, the fact that she made it possible for all the other survivors to come forward,

and it still ended up taking her. And that's a tragedy. You know, there are conspiracy theories all over the place about, oh, was this victim was she really killed herself? You know what? You don't need to murder victims of this type of crimes because they commit suicide. And I feel very fortunate that that's not something that happened to me and that I'm on a good trajectory.

The drug addiction for you, did that come in after getting out of there while you were in the midst of it all? Almost as soon as it began, as the abuse began. So it's how you managed it all. I mean, the best way that I found to cope with that was to find a way to disassociate. And for me, that was what my alcoholism,

my addiction was, was an ability to disconnect from my own body so that I didn't experience it in real time. So I want to put, let me get this camera for a second, which is explained a little something. So what Anushka is talking about is the ability to, people talk about being out of body, or it's normal if you're in a horrible situation and you feel like you're in a dream

or you're looking through a tunnel or you feel out of body or hovering above, those are normal things. But if you've been traumatized as a child, that becomes easily evoked and people tend to get taken advantage of and get back in abusive situations and they have that dissociative mechanism to save them.

It's literally, it's a life and death kind of mechanism that humans have. We share with other reptiles. When everything else fails, we have this one thing dissociation. They've kind of failed you. So instead of the brain dissociating, she used substances to associate.

Is that accurate? That's about the way to do it. And then I'm sure you also did develop some dissociation down the line in addition, which is just trying to solve, you know, surviving these chronic stresses and chronic traumas, our body just, and you can even disconnect from your body entirely.

That tends to happen earlier in life, but the body itself, the actual connection with the body can become disorganized and disrupted. That's called somatoform dissociation. So back to the two of us now. So let me, so you got out and you got out because. Well I got sober. But did they help you, did they try to not let you get sober or did they, in other words

in sobriety for sure you start to see things more clearly but with this incredible cult force on you, had they lightened up in you at that point? Well, I was getting too old. That's what I wondered. You know, these were people who... Pedophiles. Yeah, they were pedophiles.

Yeah. So once I hit about 26, which was when I got sober. Did they worry about letting you go? Or did they worry about your sobriety? Did they worry that you were going to be able to tell your story or no. I don't I think there's a especially with people of extreme wealth, extreme power.

There's this incredible, incredible arrogance. And especially, you know, this did not happen in the time that we're living in now. So there wasn't the same kind of ability to to pull the covers off this kind of behavior. It wasn't happening and we know that. It seemed unbelievable back then. You would be like, what? And then there's the whole layer of, was this, and Caleb, I know I'm channeling you on this one,

so I'll give you a chance to ask her questions about it if you want, but was the Moussaad involved? Was the CIA involved? What was he doing? Was he inoperative? And all that, so he was protected by all that potentially. So, I mean, those are the things that I've considered myself. I don't have any concrete information on it,

but I do know that Ghislaine's father, it's been said that possibly he had ties to Musaad, and also the fact that he fell off a boat, and then suddenly Ghislaine finds Epstein, who suddenly becomes catapulted into this incredible wealth. And maybe, you know, and no one really found out where the money went, right, from her father. So suddenly all the money had gone,

and we don't know where it went. So there's been a lot of question marks. And I would say that's entirely possible. But it's not something I know for sure. Caleb, you have a question about this. And this is what dovetails also into the Diddy thing, because people are thinking, oh, is Diddy inoperative?

Has he got some tapes? All this kind of stuff. Caleb, I'll give you a chance to ask Anushka some questions. Yeah, there's been, I've not seen any indication, anything at all about any of those tapes ever being leaked. No one has ever found them apparently, and not a single one. And you would think this is the highest profile case that's of this type for decades.

Did you see evidence that there were tapes lying around? Did you see evidence of people taping things or like, what do you think happened with all of that? Because it's not like the house burned down there's somewhere somebody has those Who would have gone in and cleaned up and destroyed it or do you have did you see any indication of people that were? You know hidden cameras or things like that There were a hundred percent hidden cameras that there's been evidence that that much of What took place in his? Multities was filmed.

That being said, I think, you know, a lot of people say, oh, you know, where are the tapes? Why haven't they been released? Where's the list of people? Why hasn't that been released? And I think, you know, what a lot of people fail to understand with the legal system, especially at a federal level, is you can't just release information that could potentially be important to a future charge or a future case.

You can't just put it out there to the public because that completely compromises the integrity of the case. Yeah. Right. That actually makes a lot of sense. that compromises the integrity of the case. Yeah. Right. That actually makes a lot of sense. I mean, that's what I always say is also the tapes themselves are illegal content. So where would people expect to be seeing them or to see any evidence of it?

Because it's illegal to possess or to transmit the material. So you're not going to get the tapes anyway. So I don't know if anyone's ever going to be happy enough with anything that anyone hands out. Like, I don't think anyone's going to be happy with what they're doing. You think it's going to be true that Donald Trump is in the Epstein files somewhere and that's why they're holding the materials back or? I mean, my understanding is that isn't a big secret that he's in the files.

That's my understanding. That being said, my understanding is also that Trump was actually advocating for the release of the files at some point. But I think, again, from a perspective of a survivor and also an advocate in this area, in this field, we don't want the files released. And I also think that there's this idea around Epstein that these tapes a bit like the Diddy files yes they contain you know heads of state and they contain multiple celebrities yes I don't think that's the case I think with the Epstein case it was very much him and maybe a couple of

people around him. Prince Andrew? Maybe? Well, there's a funny, I heard a funny thing the other day because he was asked for comment on the death of Virginia Juffre. And he declined to comment, or the royal family declined to comment on his behalf. And there's an old English nursery brine, the grand old Duke of York, he had 10,000 men, he marched them up to the top of the hill and he marched them down again.

So they redid it and they said, the great old Duke of York, he paid 10,000 quid, something he never said and something he never did. I thought that was quite funny. So I think it's his puss, as we say in this country, that got everyone stirred up that there must be other people that they want to know about. And the bloodlust in all of this is sort of disturbing.

It is disturbing. Yeah, it is disturbing. And by the way, people did horrible things. They need to make amends for that on their own. I mean, it's not us to be the mob to go after them. No, and it causes so many problems when suddenly, and I forget if it was Susan or someone saying earlier, but suddenly, oh, it was Emily saying,

anyone who's got a computer is suddenly a journalist. And suddenly, we've got a couple of pieces of information and psychologically our brains naturally will just fill in Right. Well the mob behavior has been so evident in the last seven years I mean maybe just the beginning of the Trump Presidency and then kovat full mob action and this is more that mob instinct right? They want to mob up and find a scapegoat That's a disgusting human tendency. It is. It's the worst of us.

It is and it's not going away because it is a human trait. It is. That we need to find somebody to blame. You studied Oxford? Well, I was meant to go to Oxford, but I didn't go to Oxford. Because of all this.

What happened, yes. René Girard is a famous French literary critic, I guess he was. But he came up with a big philosophical framework for mimesis and scapegoating. And he has now thought of his clairvoyant in terms of bringing this idea forward, which is that humans have a way of regulating

group aggression by focusing on one. And when they're narcissistic, they're particularly prone to it. And here we are. So we'll listen. Cedric. Yes. I have a question.

Go ahead. Yes. Who's that? Go ahead, Caleb. Oh yeah. So my question is, so from your experiences, what sort of recommendations would you have

for parents that could kind of protect their daughters from similar situations like Epstein and Diddy. Like I have, I mean, my kid's only one, but I'm like thinking ahead of like, what do I need to do that's different, that's going to keep, because there's just a string of women that these people have just run through.

So what do parents need to be thinking about for their kids, especially, you know, now these type of predators can just, you can build up as many walls as you want, but they can hop right over those walls by going through the internet. Like you can get through any sort of defenses that way. And so do you have recommendations for parents out there to keep their kids safe? 100%. Well, I'm a parent and I have an 11 year old daughter and I will say keep your children off the internet. Absolutely. Keep them completely off the internet. Do not give them access because

you think you know what they're looking at, you think you're on top of it and you're not. And these people they find ways to get in and that's the easiest way. And the other thing is is listen to your children, you know, ask them questions and listen to their answers. And really notice, stay off your phone, be present and look at the people that they're spending time with. And I mean, for me as a survivor, I'm probably over the top and over cautious. And it doesn't matter who it is, whether it's a parent of a kid at school, it's usually someone you know. So if it's not on the internet,

it's usually someone you know. So there isn't anybody who I don't look at twice. Right, right. And was there any pattern? Caleb, if there's multiple things you could do. I was just wondering if there's any pattern that you saw with these. If there's addictive, hang on, Caleb, hold on, slow down.

If there's addictive pathology genetically in your background, parent in recovery is the most significant impact on the child. Forget everything else, that's the number one thing. Number two, if the child, God forbid, has an adverse childhood experience, mental health treatments work. And use, liberally, mental health services,

if indeed that's necessary. Three, teach them about cults and persuasion and about power imbalances. So not everyone who knows this, but one of our son God almost sucked into a cult one day. And I was like, he was describing this thing to me, I said, dude, those are cult people coming after you because they were love bombing him,

you're special and you're this and you're that. And it really taught him a big, it was a really quite a good lesson for him because it's so seductive when you're in it. And you have to really, it can happen with just two people really easily. And this is the stuff I was trying to kind of talk, we were talking about with the woman,

whoever this woman is on the stand now, this ability of some people to suck people into situations that are dangerous, frankly, and where the self is sort of lost in this, you got to educate people about that, and we just don't educate kids about that enough, and keep them off the internet. Absolutely, and also, I would say,

with children, it depends what age they are, but help your child, I've said to my daughter since she was very, very young, if someone's being nice to you Yeah, you should ask yourself why yes, why are they being nice to you? What do they want? You know, do they guess anything? And if the answer is yes, it's you know, I've never really thought about it quite that bleakly, but that's unfortunate I think that is true

Not that you can't have somebody say things nice to you But it's something it should be you should have a discipline of sort of thinking about it. Like is, are they, I guess the question would be, are they wanting something from me? Do they try to get something from me? Or is this somebody that I can trust? And it's, these are not easy questions. And also I think talking to your children, you know, in an age-appropriate way about sex, I probably wouldn't have talked to my child about sex at such a young age,

but because of the age we live in, because of the things I've experienced, I found it necessary to not only have a conversation about what is sex, but also about what is consent. And the consent conversation came far before the sex conversation, because consent goes across the board, right? What is it? How do I know?

And also, how does it feel in my body when I want to do something? Because as you pointed out so poignantly, Drew, about my own disassociation, so we want our children to be in their body. We want them to feel, how do you know your body feels good? How do you know your body feels frightened?

And to know the difference. Yes, so again, you very eloquently describe these profound things. And I agree with you, we've spent the last, particularly the British for sure are guilty of this, Americans are as well, of urging people to disregard their bodies and their feelings and to suppress them and to push them down.

And when in fact, they are one of the most informative biologies we have is where our instincts are and it will never steer us wrong. It will always give us information that is accurate. We have to learn to listen to it. And not a lot of us are given enough in childhood where we are actually connected up to it. That's one of the big problems right now.

Susan, you said, I'm sorry, interrupted you as something there. Oh, it's okay. Go ahead. Something that stood out to me, your friend, Virginia, who came forward was an ambassador of goodwill to get people to understand what was going on.

And she put her life on the line for it. And for, you know, how it brought other people into the case and how you wouldn't have done it without her. And it just made me wonder about the Diddy trial and how I know that there wasn't just three people having sex at these things. Like there were drugs and alcohol and days of partying and there were celebrities and there was sex, okay?

There had to be. And there have been a lot of women who have said that they've gone to the parties and they were treated poorly. But I just wonder if there's a lot of fear going on in this particular case because Diddy is such a powerful person. And if he is incarcerated, if people will come forward in the future. Since Epstein died, it was a lot easier. So are you asking, much in the way women were able to come forward with Epstein,

will there be more coming forward with Diddy? Yeah, because he died and the power was shifted. Good question. 100%, it's an excellent question. And as I mentioned briefly earlier, there was no way I would have come forward had Epstein not died. No way. The fear was, and this is a funny thing about fear, is whether your fear is valid, whether it's a real and present danger, or whether your fear is irrational, it still lives inside you.

So the fear did diminish to some degree when Epstein died, but it still lives inside you. So the fear did diminish to some degree when Epstein died, but it still gets triggered. And I think for the people who might want to come forward within the Diddy trial, it's just too frightening. I mean, as I said earlier, what do they stand to gain? What do they stand for them? Right. Yeah, I agree.

All right, we have- And he hasn't, I mean, All right, we have I mean, he's If he gets incarcerated then maybe that'll trigger some civil suits or something But I just I wonder because you know in court now They're just not able to say it was anything but you know, he and his consensual girlfriends Which I think is complete bullshit quite frankly over the next few days though because the government have planned out their case. This is early on for this Jane Doe who's testifying now and they have a plan. They're not just you know, they're not just going with it.

They have a plan to unfold different pieces of information to the jury to be able to build a case because it's not about one piece of evidence. It's about building a case beyond reasonable it's not about one piece of evidence, it's about building a case beyond reasonable doubt. We have to wrap this thing up. There's been a very interesting show today. I appreciate you being here. I just wish women would come forward

for themselves more often. That's our biggest problem, is that we have so much fear. It is our biggest problem. You're absolutely right. I mean, I started a podcast recently. It's called the Empowered Exchange Podcast. You can find it on my YouTube channel. Anushka Dash D'Giorgio. That's right. I've just started a podcast recently.

is to empower everybody, but particularly women, to be able to have success and also thrive, not be victimized, but also have victory over any moments where they did become victims or struggle. Stop being so interested in making men happy at the expense of your discomfort. Not you specifically, but women generally. I mean, just when I heard that Diddy's story, I'm like, she's doing these horrible things.

All she's interested in is just doing them because it turns him on. Like, how do you feel about it? We are biologically predisposed to that. I get that. And so you need to like pay attention to that and not cave into that so much. Absolutely.

Yeah. You said something that I can't as a man say that you're biologically predisposed because people were smush me for saying that But I do believe that to be true. Well, it is true Because I would tonight there's all this like, you know what you believe to be true. It is true. It is true I'm just not allowed to say it Thank you. I appreciate it and it causes but because we are sophisticated because our brains have evolved past that Cave people correct we can override that or at least be skeptical of it when it comes up and pay attention to it rather

Just going with it Absolutely having awareness around that is the first step to be able to make a conscious choice Yes, that's how you make changes. That's right. All right. Thank you for being here. Thank you for the work you're doing too. Again, I want to tell people where to go if they want to be a part of the organization, the Federation Foundation. Well, I mean, I would just go to my YouTube channel, watch the Empowered Exchange podcast.

You can follow me on Instagram under my name Anoushka DiGiorgio. It's up there on the screen. And any information, please write to me. I can always help connect you with someone who can help. Great. Susan, anything else on your side? Okay, thank you all. And thank you, Emily, for the report today.

We appreciate it. Today is Thursday. We are actually in here tomorrow for a special show. Can we put the upcoming guest list on there? Okay, there we go. Alex Stein in here tomorrow. The 10th, we don't know yet. Mark Cienchisi and DC Drano finally coming in.

Salty Cracker, Dr. Medici. I know this is not how she pronounces her name, but we don't speak Danish. But she's got another great story that, or study rather, that took another two years to publish, which is ridiculous. Hopefully that nonsense is shifting a little bit. And I think that's it for us.

We've got a lot this afternoon, Susan, we've got to get into in this studio. And we will see you all tomorrow at Noontime Pacific. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here.

Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me, call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at DrDoo.com slash help.