Ask Dr. Drew - Ex Navy SEAL: The TRUTH About Human Trafficking & Organ Harvesting Gangs w/ Remi Adeleke – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 245

Episode Date: July 28, 2023

As “Sound Of Freedom” crosses $100 million in theaters, millions are now aware of the depraved industry of human trafficking. Remi Adeleke – an ex Navy SEAL turned filmmaker and author – shares his real-life experiences of fighting traffickers and organ harvesting gangs, and the horrifying ways that traffickers acquire new victims… who are often delivered directly by parents themselves. Order Remi Adeleke’s new thriller “CHAMELEON” at https://www.amazon.com/dp/0063238837 Watch Remi’s previous episode from Sep 2022: https://youtu.be/LqgPeILhphs Remi Adeleke is a former Navy SEAL whose film “The Unexpected” exposes the true story of two human trafficking victims of an international organ harvesting ring. But Remi’s story begins long before his career as a SEAL and filmmaker: he spent his childhood as Nigerian royalty, until the death of his father and the stripping of his family’s wealth sent Remi and his mother to a life of poverty in the Bronx. In his memoir “Transformed”, Remi doesn’t shy away from the illegal activities that threatened to derail his future and tells an inspiring story of personal transformation. Follow Remi at https://www.instagram.com/remiadeleke and https://twitter.com/RemiAdeleke 「 SPONSORED BY 」 Find out more about the companies that make this show possible and get special discounts on amazing products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors • PRIMAL LIFE - Dr. Drew recommends Primal Life's 100% natural dental products to improve your mouth. Get a sparkling smile by using natural teeth whitener without harsh chemicals. For a limited time, get 60% off at https://drdrew.com/primal • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

welcome to our special monday edition today uh one of our special guest returns of course is remy adeleke he's a new book coming out i believe well is it the audiobook or the book dropping tomorrow it's been there's been a lot of delays and getting this all there is the book is chameleon he of course is a former navy seal author of the new book chameleon and he is a writer producer actor director he's done a lot of stuff he He also kicked my ass in the Jordanian desert. Susan laughs every time I say that in the Special Forces program that he and I did. And he's here to talk a little bit about, amongst other things, organ harvesting. And there's sort of a lot in the news these days about child trafficking and organ trafficking.

And the rest of the world has caught up to Remy and his concern about this issue. He actually was involved in fighting this phenomenon. So he has deep insight and he has created books and movies on this topic. We'll talk about that after a quick break. Our laws as it pertains to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous.

I'm a doctor for f**k's sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Love Line all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. There are three steps to great looking, glowing complexion in the summer.

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In that particular case, an international organ harvesting ring, something that Remy was involved with fighting. He writes, obviously, a chameleon. Oh, this is a great part of his story. I'm gonna make you talk about it when you bring him in here, about how his mom made him write, something I did did not know and how that is paying dividends today.

Please welcome Remy Adelike. Hey, how's it going, everyone? Welcome back. So tell them, I want to get into human trafficking much more this time than we have in the past. As I said, you've been way ahead of the curve on being concerned about this particularly as it pertains to organ harvesting but i'm you know to me it was such a revelation that it was that significant of a phenomenon but when you mentioned the the economics of it it starts to make sense and we'll get into that in a few minutes but i'm going to make you sketch your story again, but focus on your mom making

you sit down and write. That was a new part of the story I got that I think is so interesting, and it's paid some serious dividends for you. So let's hear it. All right. So I'll kind of rush through the front part, and then I'll let you get to that, and I'll stop there. So I was born into a very wealthy family. My dad was a very successful engineer and businessman. He engineered one of the first man-made islands in the world, up there. So I was born into a very wealthy family. My dad was a very successful engineer, businessman. He engineered one of the first man-made islands in the world, which exists to this day. It's known as Banana Island, but it was known as, the name, the original name of it was Lagoon City. So when I was born, I was born into a lot of wealth and prestige. And then I inherited

the title of Adeleke, which means in Yoruba means the crown is supreme. And unfortunately, in 1987, a Nigerian government stripped my dad of all of his assets, including Lagoon City. They renamed it to Banana Island. My dad went to go fight them in the court system. He died three weeks later, mysteriously. We went from very rich to poor. And my mother being an American, brought my brother and I back to the United States. And we grew up in the Bronx. I'm actually in the bedroom right now that I grew up in. So my mom might pop in at some point to say hello. Oh my God, I would love that. That'd be fantastic. That'd be amazing. Yeah. And so, you know, growing up in the Bronx, the public education system was not the best.

My mom, she was a teacher in the South Bronx and she didn't want us to be another statistic. I think the dropout rate was around 70 percent. The high school rate was when I was growing up. And along with sending us to school, she would homeschool us, especially during the summers. And part of the homeschooling was she would make us read New York Times articles and read books and write reports. And if those reports weren't near perfect, she would make us pick another article or another book and start all over from scratch. And we couldn't go outside to play uh unless we wrote a perfect report and i hated it

and i hate it my mother um but you know when some parents yeah when some parents put a baseball or football or jujitsu outfit in their kids hands and say get to work my mom put a pen and paper in my hand and said get to writing writing. Because from my mom's perspective, we felt as though if we knew how to articulate our thoughts in a literary format, my brother and I, then we would never be without a job. And that applies to me today. You know, I have so many jobs. I just sold a TV show to a big production company,

an unscripted TV show. And I got that job because I wrote the pitch. And so writing has really taken me a long way. And a lot of that writing- How is that going? I bet. And I can imagine how two boys, your mom, I mean, that woman's got some intestinal fortitude to stand up to two adolescent boys and make them do schooling on the weekend it's just amazing to me she was able to do that so i uh that she's uh somebody i would love if she has a chance to walk by i just love to congratulate her because it's her efforts dude she's the one that put in the hard work you thought you were the one working hard imagine

what she was doing she was my first school instructor so, so, so. I get it. I get it. I saw her. I saw her when you were standing up on that podium kicking our ass. I saw, I saw your mom. It's so funny. Okay. Well, that, that's, that's an amazing story.

And, you know, and then you got, you went a little south. Maybe you want to tell that part and how you got into the Navy SEALs real quick. Yeah. I got into my early teens and not having a father to affirm me, not having a father to teach me how to become a man. I looked to the streets and hip-hop life and hip-hop culture to father me. And I started out fighting and stealing and just doing whatever I could to make money. I stole from my mother, stole from local stores, got jobs. I stole from a sneaker store that I work.

As a matter of fact, my hotel is in Times Square and the sneaker store that I worked at, I could see it from my hotel window. I actually put a post on my Instagram story today. I put an arrow. I said, that's the sneaker store where I used to hustle sneakers. And essentially what I would do is I would have people come in and when they picked out a sneaker, if the sneaker was $80, I would tell them, just give me $60 cash and you could

walk out of the door with the sneakers. And so I had my sneaker hustle in Times Square. And then I progressed from that to selling drugs, not just in New York City, but upstate New York and Poughkeepsie. And then I got hit to the game because I knew that it was easy for me to get caught. So I got into cell phone scams. So I was selling blow up phones where I would activate phones on people's credit, specifically people who were in hospice and who were about to die. So from my perspective, they weren't going to need their credit. And I would be able to activate three cell phones on one line of credit. And I would sell those cell phones to drug dealers and the phones would stay

on for 90 days and then cut off after the bills weren't paid. So I was doing unlimited cell phone plans before there was unlimited cell phone plans. And yeah, so that was my, that took me to about 20 years old. I ended up getting involved in a deal with a drug dealer. It went bad. I sold him some products that were supposed to last for a certain amount of time. Those products lasted for a fraction of that time.

And not only was my life threatened at that very door, but my mother's life was indirect right after he knocked on that very door right behind me and that was a huge wake-up call for me i made him back my his money and uh that's when i decided i'm not going to do this anymore and you saw a movie about the seals or something right yeah i saw a movie called the rock and uh that was the first time i was exposed to navy seals and uh i i remember saying to myself, I was about 16 years old when that film came out

and I said to myself, if I ever turn my life around, I'm not saying I will, but if I ever turn my life around, that's what I'm going to do. And, you know, fate would have it that that's what I ended up doing. And there was a recruiting officer who played a critical role in this.

He went to see her and she sort of looked at him like, dude, you have two felonies outstanding. How am I supposed to recruit you, enroll you? And she, what, made you find a suit and come back the next day? Is that what happened? Yeah, yeah. She ran my background and discovered

that I had two warrants out for my arrest. I had a warrant in New Jersey and I had a warrant in New York. And she got up, got ready to run out of the office. And she stopped me before I got out the office. And she said, where are you going? I said, I'm getting out of here because I'm not trying to go to jail today. She said, you have a suit? I said, no.

She asked if I had a nice shirt and some nice pants. I said, I'm sure I could find something. And she told me to come back the next day. Growing up in New York City, you have to learn how to read people, especially when you're doing the stuff that I was doing, selling drugs. And you got to be able to read body language and demeanor and all these different things. And all of that was serving me really well when I got into the SEAL teams and I was working at human intelligence and runninganor and all these different things. And all of that was served me really well when I got into the SEAL teams and I was working at human intelligence and running sources and building intelligence packages. So I didn't know exactly what she was going to do for me.

But based off of how she spoke with me that last hour and how she looked at me, I was able to read that she was going to do something good for me. And the next day I was right. The next day I came back, she was in her dress uniform good for me and the next day i was i was right next day i came back she was in her dress uniform took me to both judges the judge in new jersey judge in new york and stood before them and advocated for my behalf she said hey listen this kid's made mistakes but he has potential and he wants to join the military after the act of war 9 11 had just taken place nine months earlier but he can't join the military you know with these warrants and both judges said if this guy is seriously serious about joining the military after what

took place, then we'll expunge his record. And, uh, she went a step further and forged my paperwork, snuck me into the Navy and, uh, the rest is history. And if it wasn't for that decision, I know for unequivocal doubt that I would be dead or in prison. As a matter of fact, one of the guys I used to sell drugs with, he's still in prison to this day. Um, and I wouldn't be right there with him. So. Yeah. I mean, these are, and now, I mean, there's so many things we could say about this. I mean, it's such an inspirational story and it's, it's a model for what we should be doing for bringing kids around. I I've often said that I, we have, you and I have not talked about this, but I've been thinking more and more that some sort of military style experience for young people and drug addicts too would help

bring them around, you know, get them some discipline and structure and sustain that for a while. Do you have any thoughts about that? I agree 100%. I think that one, I think that, you know, there should be some type of policy passed at some point that allows teenagers, even adults who have made mistakes. I'm not talking about, you know, murder and rape or anything crazy like that, but I'm talking about made some mistakes that are not egregious and still give them the opportunity to serve in the military. As a matter of fact, across every branch of service right now, recruiting is down and in series. It's so bad that it's a national security issue.

And, you know, we are in a prime position where we can fill those silos with people that, yeah, have made mistakes, but that will need a second chance at life. Yeah, yeah. It would be amazing. It would be amazing. And this may be – I don't know if you've thought about this but this maybe this is the time to advocate for something like that because there is this shortage i mean this is when they're gonna have to start thinking creatively you might get a congressman's ear or something or a congresswoman uh i i don't know if that ever happens please i

would love to help you do that just i can be of any help but just it's almost you know i don't know what i can do but i'd be delighted to do anything I possibly could. Because that to me seems like a model. You know, there's all kinds of, I was speaking to a group of county officials this last weekend. And, you know, they don't know what to do. They've got all these mental health problems and all these people in the streets and all this. And they've got criminal problems. And they just are at their wits end this is a perfect little sidebar that might have really serious uh long-term consequences

for who knows how many people we don't even know what the impact might be right yeah as long as you get the military to participate i mean they've all it seems like when people have brought up solutions like this in the past the military kind of pushes back and say oh we don't want the we don't want the headaches sort of their thing well it used to happen vietnam you know from what i've heard many stories of people who served in vietnam who you know they were criminals or you know they they were in a position where they committed a serious offense more serious than the stuff that i did and they were standing before the judge and the judge said go to Vietnam or go

to prison you know so it I mean it happened in the past now granted that's a different time period that was a different war and you know it's a different thing and it's right it was a horrible it was a it was a sentence and and I don't I would love to see us approach this not as a sentencing but as an opportunity. I mean, you're the poster child for that, right? So very interesting. Okay. So a couple of quick questions.

I saw your Instagram post this morning. I thought, man, damn, he's from Bronx. What's he doing in Times Square? He knows better than to go down there. But now you just told me you're staying at the hotel there. So that's cool. And you were there. It looks like you were out early in the morning because there the hotel there so that that's cool uh and and you were there it looks like you were out early in the morning because there was nobody there is

that what i was looking at oh no i i'm uh you know i'm gonna be a good boy and tell the truth i woke up late today it was just seemed quiet seemed quiet out there i was shocked like yeah yeah i was doing a press doing this press tour for my book, Chameleon. It comes out tomorrow. And I was up late doing a podcast interview. So I didn't wake up. I didn't get out of bed until about 12 o'clock today. But it was surprisingly quiet.

And I was on my way to the gym. And I heard the guy singing New York, New York. It must be a cool video to post. It was cool. It was a nice video. It was really a nice. Well, it actually made Times video to post it was cool it was a nice video it was really a nice well it actually made times square look a lot better than it is so yeah you know i made it look very very romantic for that moment and your new show is that devolving i i'm fully excited for you about that i know you can't really talk about it but damn yeah i can't talk about it but yes it is

we are going to uh you know start shooting in about two weeks. And it's going to be epic, man. It's going to be epic. Oh, and then Transform. Is that still underway? I'm definitely going to talk about it when I can, for sure. Oh, yeah. Don't worry.

That's the next time. Transform, is that still underway? Or is that going to be a film, right? Yep. So Transform is going to be a movie. right? Yep, so Transformed is going to be a movie, and the writer's strike shut everything down. I finished the script. I finished a draft of the script before the writer's strike

and turned that into the studio. Can't mention the studio just yet, but once the writer's strike lifts and everything is squared away on the business end of things, I can talk publicly about the studio, but the script's pretty much done. And I really tried to stay as close to the script as possible while at the same time condensing the story

into the page count that was necessary. Because, you know, it's really, really hard to take 127,000 words and try and make it a 120-page screen screenplay that's a feat in and of itself yeah yeah but isn't that funny the kid that i'm sure you i'm sure you agonized over every page when you were 14. now you're now you're now you're now you have difficulty bringing it bringing it under control you want to write more it's very interesting yeah so tell us about chameleons talk about that is there an audiobook and what what do we what do we learn if we pick it up

yeah you know chameleon is i is a fictional extension of transform so uh you know and it's it's not just so it's a book but it's also audio book i did the audio book read so i'm performing all of the different roles all all of the different characters. But yeah, it's all the things that I couldn't talk about and transform, given my background in human. But I was able to put in chameleon and fictionalize. So Kali Kent is me. You know, he was born in Nigeria, just like I was. But, you know, his father was in the Nigerian mafia. So I'm able to kind of explore

that world a little bit more and teach people about the world of Nigerian corruption and organized crime in Nigeria through that story. Kali ended up coming to America, rising up into the ranks and being part of a top secret CIA program called Chameleon. And Chameleons are people who are able to essentially become whatever character they need to become at the drop of a dime. You know, it's all ground in reality. They're just really, really great method actors. And again, I pull from my past being a human collection agent overseas and having to be

a different person for each source. I had to be one person for a source who was always fearful to give me information. I had to be a different person for a source that was a bit arrogant and would talk too much. And I had to be a different person for another source. And then I had to be a different person for the people I was running my intelligence up to.

And so that's when the idea came to me, this idea of a chameleon. And then fast forward, when I went to the Lee Strasberg Theater and Film Institute to study acting, method acting, I met a teacher named MJ Carmi, and she was a phenomenal method actor teacher. And I remember we were in a class one day. She said to me, she said, well, she said to our class,

she said, why is it so hard for you all to cry? It shouldn't be hard for an actor to cry. And she puts her hand over her head. And by the time her fingers pass her eyes, she's bawling, crying. It was like she turned on a switch. And she explained to us that the way she was able to do it was she was able to tap into something from her past through touch through feeling and so she she admonished us to you know when you're trying to get into a certain character or evoke a certain feeling you know grab something that reminds you even if it's something as similar as simple as a pen or a trinket grab something that reminds you

so that you can get into that character so i took that and put it into uh our chameleon program and so khali has a trinket that he uses to help gradually blend into his character, similar to the way chameleons blend into their character. But yes, it's an action film, action book, and it's thrills, and it's an espionage thriller, but there's an underlying message in the book. I kind of, kind of similar to what I did with the short film, the unexpected short film where I put the pill in a donut, I, to, you a donut to make people be willing to consume it. I put the pill in the book as well. I dressed up with the action and the espionage and the frills, but there's a message about national unity because as you know, there's so much division

in our country and politically, from a racial standpoint, and you name it, we're divided in so many different ways. And it comes from Africa to America. And then having, having had the opportunities that America has afforded me, you know, coming here poor with nothing, I feel like it's still my duty, not just to serve in the human trafficking side of things, but to try and serve my nation in a way that will bring healing. And so that's the underlying theme throughout the book is this importance of national unity and what happens when we don't have national unity, what our enemies are able to do to us when we're just fighting amongst ourselves. And so I hope that, you know, people get the book and read it and get inspired to, you know, to say to themselves, you know what,

I hate my neighbor because of their political background, but maybe, you know what? I hate my neighbor because of their political background, but maybe, you know what? I'll dial it back a little bit. Maybe I'll go have a conversation with them. Maybe I'll get to know them a little bit better. I have a saying, you know, as conversation leads to understanding, understanding leads to unity.

And we need that right now. Yeah. It's so interesting. I mean, A, I know this audience audience and i think you just sold a bunch of books because everyone wants you know access to the solutions they want to know how but people have actually studied this kind of stuff in the past racism all kinds of bullshit and the and the one thing that they find is the most significant treatment let's call it or salve for the illness for the injury is contact contact make contact be present with other people and be a human being with other human beings and guess what

that's what you'll be you'll become a human being and so will they uh and uh that that's we need a hell of a lot of right yeah yeah and it's not, it's not just being present with, with the intention to respond, you know, with the tech, you know how it is when you get into an argument with somebody, you're not listening to what you're saying. You're waiting for a chance to respond. It's about being present with the intention of listening and being open and finding a common ground. Because at the end of the day, all of us in America, we all have multiple forms of common ground. We all have something that connects us.

I was thinking about this earlier today when I was calling my mom and I picked up my phone and I went to my contacts and mom was there. At a minimum, most of us in America have that in our phone. That's common ground right there. We're Americans. That's common ground. We could disagree on a lot of different things, but I'm sure that we can find common ground with it. And that could be our way in to be able to find something that unites us and brings us together or allows us to have an amicable relationship with people that we may disagree with politically or disagree with in any other way but we need you

like we've always done like we've often we've done it you know but i love it human collection agent you said which had caught my ear human collection agent that's a new term for me uh but but what sprung out of that, hearing you say that you talked about slipping into these camellioid characters, how did you choose when you were, and we're going to get to human trafficking in just a second, I promise. But I'm just so curious about, you know, I'm always curious about some of the things you've been doing. How do you, how do you know to trust your instincts of which community which character to take on it's all about being able to read people and and and and it's again it started with me in the bronx you know it naturally i just learned unconsciously on you know i just learned you

know like if i'm walking down the street i see a guy that's approaching a group of us and he may not be looking at me but he looks like he may be a threat. Am I going to continue walking down that direction? Am I going to stand up taller to posture as I walk or am I going to just be a bit sheepish? You have to learn how to survive. And so fast forward to when I got to human school, because before you could actually operate as a human operator, you have to get training on it. I just remember being in a classroom and we had these intelligence guys who had been doing it for years.

Some guys work with the agency, some guys work with the DIA, other guys work with the NSA. And they were teaching us this stuff. And I was like, I did that. I used to do that. I just didn't know the terminology, but I did. I just didn't know the theory behind it, but I did those things. And so fast forward to when I got overseas, it was first things first.

As soon as you get into a room and you lock eyes with somebody, you have to be quick at analyzing them. Because it's not just about having a dossier and reading about that person. It's about getting into a room, learning how to feel them out, seeing what their eye movements are doing. Are they looking around? Are they focused on you? Seeing their posture, reading their body language,

and then going into whatever character you need to go into. For example, I'll give you an example. When I went overseas on a deployment, we did what's called a turnover mission. So there were already sources that were being utilized to collect intelligence for us by other SEALs and other agency people, so to speak. And so I remember being in a monitoring room and watching as the guy who I was going to take over for was meeting with his source. After his time was up, he said,

all right, I'm getting ready to leave the country. I'm going to go back home, but here's a new guy that's going to take over for me. And I remember walking into the room and as soon as I walked into the room, the source smiled. And as soon as he smiled, I said, I got him. And the reason why he smiled was because less than 1% of Navy SEALs are African American. And then when you get into the human side of things, it redwindles down even more. So he was smiling because he had never seen an African American in person before. And so the first thing he said, I speak English, but the first thing he said was. Did you know all that immediately?

Or is that something you went through your head like immediately? Were you sort of aware that was what the smile was about? Or just you saw the smile? I saw the smile and I saw the twinkle in his eyes. And I already knew historically that there's not a lot of engagement with African-Americans as it relates to sources and the type of work that we do. So I knew something was up. I didn't know that it was until he said this. He said this to the interpreter.

He looked at the interpreter because I came in with a smile. He smiled and I came and I reacted with a smile as well. And he said to the interpreter, Andy Murphy? Andy Murphy? And so, and my interpreter said to me, oh, he thinks that you're Andy Murphy. You know, here, these guys, they love to watch the American movies and they love the black comedians like Chris Tucker and all these things.

And so when he said that, I was like, OK, that's a tool. That's a gift for me. That's good information. I was already able to read that he was somewhat open to me because he smiled when I came in. But now he's into some of the things that I was into. So let me play that up. So I remember extending that up. So I remember extending my arms. I'm glad I can be Eddie Murphy. What's up, man? And I just changed.

He giggled some more and we just continued to build that common ground. We built that rapport. And then about 15 minutes later, it was like, Hey, let's get down to business. And I still, I, I, I, you know know i dialed it back a little bit but i still kept a smile and i but i got down to business and that helped that trend with that particular source and many other sources helped me collect the information and i was able to collect because i was able to go and read play on the things that i that he showed me he was into and that's what helped me do my job and that's what it was about with every source. Going in, there was another source that we would run.

Every time, as soon as he met me, he was stern. He was stern. He was to the point. He wasn't about the laughter and joke. And I could see it. When I walked into the room, he stood up straight. He stood up erect. And he looked me in the eyes, gave me a firm handshake.

What that told me, this man is about business. I can't come in playing Eddie Murphy. I got to come in being focused. So it's, it's, it's, I don't think you can really explain too much. It's something that you just have to feel out, you know? So I I'm laughing and smiling. And by the way, we're going to take a break and i promise we're going to get to human trafficking that is that is our next topic i i know susan is anxious i get

there i can't i just get so intrigued by some of the things you've done and your ideas and things but i'm having a i'm having this huge reaction right now because my introduction to you is a character with a guy with his arms crossed and blades on the sun glass blades and and i remember taking you very very seriously but i thought and i was the only one that thought this by the way i thought that guy's got a sense of humor i know it he's got he's got a sense of humor we're not going to see it but i know it's there i thought but we're not going to see it so you know so we finally did meet i was was like, okay, all right. So I wasn't far off.

But that was another character, right? That guy, the Mr. I mean, we had dinner after we got back from Jordan. And I wasn't the same person I was when I was out there. No, no, no, no. It was becoming a chameleon, you know, like the book, but coming to come in. And then I had to, I was, I had the sunglasses on, but you know exactly what I was doing. I was looking at each and every single recruit to read them, to kind of figure out who they

were, figure out my, and I'm listening to things so I can learn how to, what, what gets to these recruits? How can I put them against each other how can i make them better how can i push their buttons and then when we get into the interrogation room it's already out there on the table i already know how it's easy yeah yeah yeah that's so interesting uh and is everybody from our group made contact with you in the real world or is are people not reaching out just curious because because i yeah i'm connected with carly dwight howard is going to be doing my uh book launch tomorrow in new york city so anybody who's in new york city uh come to the lit bar in the bronze you can find

information on my social media dwight howard is going to be hosting it he's going to be interrogating me so i'm staying in contact with him and Mel B and a lot of others yeah oh good all right well listen thank you for being here we got a lot more to talk about we're gonna get into the heavy stuff that's been getting into people's consciousness lately there's been something top of mind for you for quite some time that is the whole world of human trafficking particularly organ trafficking but the but the guess what is the sound and fury is that the name of that film that's got everybody all worked up but this is not a new thing this is

something that's been going on for some time and it's a big problem we'll get back in just a couple minutes talk about that with ramey daily care yeah a lot of you have been asking for more information about how to counter the adverse effects of the spike protein from COVID infections and the COVID vaccine. The spike protein is not your friend, let's just say that. So I'm glad we have the wellness company Spike Support Formula as a sponsor, especially since renowned internist and cardiologist Dr. Peter McCullough, who's also chief scientific officer of the wellness company, is one of its champions. There's some very intriguing research around natokinase, which might be a way to take on the spike protein. Listen to this.

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Be sure to use that link for 60% off. D-R-D-R-A-W dot com slash P-R-I-M-A-L. Do it today for 60% off. And when we're on with Kelly, we normally run that little clip that says if we end up, because if some of our topics get controversial, they move on over to Rumble, if we'll be there for sure. Susan, am I getting that correct? Anything else you want to say about that?

Yeah, so we're feeling some pushback from some, a hit piece that was done by Media Matters. And I think they're getting under YouTube skin. So if we do get a strike or if we get deplatformed, we just want to let everybody know that we will be on Rumble and Facebook and Twitter. We can see your comments on Rumble and Facebook, not on Twitter yet, but I don't know what to expect. And we're leaving town for a couple of weeks. So I'm assuming that it's going to happen when I'm out of town and there's nothing I can do. But I think everybody needs to be aware of the politics behind this stuff that we've been talking about recently. And we're just giving the facts. We're not making stuff up.

We're not giving facts. We're just interviewing people to see what they have to say. And I would argue that I've learned something interesting from every single, a couple of them I didn't really learn much from, but maybe save two, I learned something fascinating from each and every one of the people. I didn't agree with everything they said. But the hit piece was written about where we were monetized with guests like Zelenko. And when we had RFK Jr., we had Del Bigtree and they deplatformed him.

I don't know if anybody knows that but the point is they are not saying that our content last week was so bad they're saying well youtube monetized these guests who shouldn't be on youtube talking about their conspiracies and then lo and behold we were demonetized so okay we're we're working behind the scenes we're hopefully going to get a hold of a real human and find out who's trying to take us down. I don't know what YouTube, I guess if you make mean comments, you can take our show away. But if you make positive comments on YouTube and give us a like and say nice things about us, then maybe we can keep the show. Okay, okay, fair enough.

Keep positive thoughts. Using Ramey as our guiding light, we'll reach out and contact and think only positive thoughts about everybody. I am more than happy to do that. But let's get into the human trafficking and how you got involved with that and and and sketch out the the magnitude of the problem for us one of the things that of course i said sound and fury or something of course sound of freedom is

the movie that's got everybody all worked up but it's odd it seems so odd to me that everyone got worked up over a topic that is so important i i get confused by so many of these things these days, but sketch it out for us and how you got involved. Yeah, so when I got out of the Navy in January 2016, I would get contacted by various nonprofits who heard my story, because I was allowed to kind of take my story public and going from Nigeria to the Bronx,

Bronx to the teams and having success there and then getting out of the military. And I had various nonprofits reach out to me. A lot of inner city nonprofits would have me come speak at their clinics. Or I remember going to a juvenile like prison, speaking there with young kids. And I went to prisons and I would just, it was just my feel this, I felt this pull to give back and serve, just like I know a lot of other veterans feel that same pull as well after they've served in the military. And one of the types of nonprofits that kept on reaching out to me was human trafficking nonprofits. And I had no clue what human trafficking was. I didn't know

the definition. I had never really heard the term before. I had no clue. And this first human trafficking nonprofit out of Sacramento reached out to me and it was run by this woman. I can't recall her name. And she said, hey, can you come up and just volunteer some of your time up here with us? We have a really bad human trafficking problem with underage kids here. And I was like, what's human trafficking? She was like, kids are used for sex and sold for sex and even in women and this and that. And I was like, oh, my God, that happens. She was like, kids are used for sex and sold for sex and even in women and this and that. And I was like, oh, my God, that happens.

She was like, yeah, it happens. So I was disgusted, obviously. And I went up there and I helped out with one of her initiatives. And then, you know, a few months later, I got contacted by another human trafficking nonprofit. And they said, hey, we're putting on this fundraiser. Can you come, you know, help us raise money for our efforts? And I said, sure. And then another human trafficking nonprofit reached out to me. And then the, the, the

Strada broke the camel's back was I had a human trafficking nonprofit reach out. Interestingly, that human trafficking, not one of the human trafficking nonprofits that did this type of work was, Oh, you are, which is a 10 was 10 Ballard's nonprofit. And so I had this human trafficking nonprofit reach out and say, hey, we employ former special operations guys and former intelligence guys to go overseas to rescue kids that are trapped in sex trafficking, specifically rings that are that Americans service. Right. So these are human trafficking rings where the girls are sold for sex and the clients are Americans for the most part. Right. And so, you know, we went overseas and, you know, saw that stuff.

And the big eye opener for me, we were in D.R. on this particular trip and they were that we were in DR on this particular trip, and we were in this particular slum. It was a slum in DR, like a very hilly slum. And we were in this slum because this particular slum had parents who would sell their daughters to traffickers. The traffickers would take their daughters up to the northern part of DR, and Americans and other Westerners would pay for sex with these girls.

We're talking 11, 12, 13 year old girls, very young girls. And I just remember being disgusted by this particular mission, trying to talk to these parents who are selling their kids. Because at that time I had two sons at the time. So it was a tough pill for me to swallow. And our guide noticed how perturbed I was. So he pulled me aside and pulled me into this chapel. And then, and this chapel had to be no bigger than the size of two handicapped toilet stalls. And at the end of this dingy, dirty chapel

was a dead six month old baby in a casket. And it was a funeral service that was going on. And the guide explained to me that the baby died and he brought the mother to me and explained to me that the baby died because the mother's breast milk ran out. She wasn't getting enough food and water. And so she mixed some formula with the local water, gave it to the baby. That's what ultimately killed the baby. And he was trying to teach me something. What he was trying to teach me was, Remy, this is their plight. For this mother and for some of these other parents that you're trying to talk to, for them, it's either they sell their daughter for sex or all of their kids die.

And it doesn't justify it at all, but it did help me do my job. Going back to what I would do as a human intelligence guy, I needed to understand the motivations of the people that I was speaking to and dealing with sometimes in order to get the information needed. And he recognized that because he recognized how perturbed I was that I needed to get some more information so that I could properly do my job. And so, you know, I went back and continued doing what we were doing. And when I got back from that trip, I had some missed phone calls from Mike Case. Mike Case is Michael Bay's producing partner. And Mike Case was reaching out to me because Michael Bay was starting his next film with Netflix called Six Underground.

And they wanted me to start consulting on the film. And I agreed to consult on the film. But it was after I hung up the phone that these two worlds collided. I just got off the plane from from D.R. Landon in Miami and I just had this crazy experience and then now I had this phone call from somebody who works in the film and TV industry and I was like that's it that's the answer. Human trafficking is a global issue and it requires a global response and the best way to have a global response is to make a film and you, you know, because I felt like, you know, I could go overseas and rescue 100 kids and work with different nonprofits and do that job.

But there's always going to be two million more kids that need some rescuing. I'm not going to be able to do that, but I can use my gifting and talents as a writer and a storyteller and a filmmaker to educate the masses in a way that would, uh, that would show them that they need to get engaged in this fight. So that was essentially the trajectory of how I kind of migrated to this part of my life now, where I'm really trying to use my, my background as a filmmaker to expose this darkness and not just, not just when people hear the term human trafficking, their mind just goes to sex trafficking. They don't realize that there are multiple facets of human trafficking. There's organ harvesting, which is what I choose to focus on.

There's sex trafficking, there's forced marriage, there's labor. What's going on in Africa right now and a lot of the mines. You have the Chinese who are buying up these these plots of land is signing these deals with these corrupt politicians and they're coming in and these these mines are being being mined by child slaves you know what i mean it's it's it's a very sad thing so you have forced labor you have forced marriage you have blood trafficking and i don't mean the crazy you know q non-conspiracy one'm talking about, there was a guy who was, this is an international story of a guy from China who went to Cambodia. He was abducted by a gang. That gang

was blood trafficking. They were taking his blood and selling his blood on a black market. So there's all, and that's an international story. It was all over the news. Every network covered that story. So there's all, as a matter of fact as a recent a month ago uh there was the trafficking of dead bodies at harvard university the harvard university morgan all right i remember that yeah story here in the u.s where this guy and his wife his girlfriend were working at the morgan and at harvard and they were taking body parts and selling the body parts on the black market they They were taking fetuses or, or, or babies who, who died prematurely. They would, bodies were supposed to be cremated.

Instead they were selling these bodies, these bodies of these dead babies. So there's all these different forms of human trafficking. It's not just sex trafficking. Susan just, just jumped out of her seat. Wait a second. For money. Just like to do autopsies or play with dead bodies? Why would they need the organs of a dead

organ? The one that was going on at Harvard is if I remember correctly, they were selling them to other people that were turning them into gross artwork, basically. And then she would end up selling them for a lot of money online. Yeah yeah it was

a whole miniature industry and their source i believe was at harvard university and a few other like yeah morgues and stuff and it was a very intricate network and it was a very lucrative uh ring and so you know there's well that's the that's the thing yeah tell them about the the that you you broke down for me some of the economics of the organs and what a series of organs can get on the market internationally. Tell them about that. Yeah. So the human heart or lungs starts – bidding starts at about $150,000 for a clean heart and lung. A kidney or liver bidding starts – just starts at $100,000. As a matter of fact,

Vice did a story recently of, and they actually had an Oregon trafficker. His face was covered and he had goggles on and everything, but they did a story on this trafficker who was, he was finding poor migrants in Mexico and connecting those migrants with corrupt medical care personnel in the United States, in Arizona, Nevada, and California. So the corrupt medical staffers at different hospitals, they would give this trafficker the names of people who would get on the kidney waiting list or some type of other transplant waiting list. And then he would connect them together and they would do the transplant in Mexico. He would sell the kidneys for $100,000. He would essentially manipulate these poor migrants who came to the Mexican border to

try and sneak into America and who were now homeless. He would manipulate them, take advantage of the vulnerable and give them $5,000 for their kidney, sell it for $100,000 and the money would be split between the trafficker and the surgeon who performed the surgery. So, and that's another thing, you know, a lot of people think that they're dealing with very dark, cringy people, you know, dirty people. And that is the case in some situations, but you're also dealing with very smart, educated people. There was an organ harvesting ring that was, I spoke about this last time I was on, but there was an organ harvesting ring that was busted in Cairo, Egypt.

And of the 45 people that were arrested, the majority of them were doctors and nurses. There was another story, sorry for going on this tangent, but there was another story that came out four months ago of this woman, this woman from Mexico who found love on his dating app, found this guy in Peru, flew to Peru to start a relationship with him. He killed her, took all of her organs, chopped her body up, her parts of her body washed up on the beach. He got caught because he tried selling her heart, lungs, kidney, and other organs on the black market. He was a med school student. So you're not dealing with idiots. This was an international story. This is not conspiracy. This is all an international story that was well documented on all the major trades and outlets. And so kidney and liver starts at around $100,000. Cornea of the eye started around $30,000.

So we could say that conservatively that a human body can go for $250,000, just start starting at $250,000. And these traffickers are realizing that it's safer for them to traffic organs and bodies than it is for them to traffic people sexually. Because when you have somebody who's being sex trafficked, especially underage kids, especially with the new laws that are being passed in some countries like London, the UK just passed this strenuous law recently, a few months ago, actually, where if you traffic anybody, regardless of the matter, if it's for sex, if it's for organs, whatever, labor, you're getting a life sentence if you get caught. And so these traffickers are beginning to realize that, hey, it's a lot safer and more lucrative for me to traffic bodies,

you know, and take these organs and sell them on a black market because worst case scenario, I could burn the body, you know, get rid of it, sell these organs and move on to the next person than it is for me to keep trafficking somebody sexually because they could be a sting. Somebody could be an undercover cop or be working for Interpol and things could get broken up. So it's that those are the numbers, essentially. But I mean, reasonably, you know, that's what you say where it starts. I mean, reasonably, people could look forward to a million dollars per body that they are able to kidnap you know and then or at least a half million dollars i mean this is like ridiculous sums of money so they make a lot more money than trafficking drugs yeah and people go missing every

day uh we know the numbers as a matter of fact there were a lot there's a i forgot the number of migrant kids that were that made it into the the U S that just disappeared after they got placed in different places here in the U S. So people are always going missing. And, uh, and, and, you know, there's always going to be people in need of organs and just look at the numbers in America. You know, I have this up right here, just these, these statistics, and just did an overhaul of the, uh, of the organ transplant program here in the u.s and and and the statistics came out in 2022 42 that there were 42 000 transplants just in the u.s there's uh there's a hundred and and four thousand men women and children on the waiting list each year and every

10 minutes a new person is added to the waiting list and 17 people die every day because they're on a waiting list. You don't get an organ at times. 17 times 365 is 6,205 people. So just in the US, 6,205 people die every year on a transplant waiting list. So when you have somebody that's desperate, when you have this need that's going to never go away, and then you have these traffickers, and then you have great poverty in most parts of the world, you have abject poverty, it creates this space for these horrible events to take place. Yeah. Speaking of dark, I'm reading some of Susan's comments on my stream here, including she wants to create a new show called 90 Day Fiance Organ Donor. Dark, dark. She's dark. Before the 90 days or the other way 90 days? I threw up in my mouth a little bit too. Thanks, Remy. You also mentioned that Leonardo da Vinci used to do this.

He bribed people so he could examine dead bodies. I mean, I can see that in the Middle Ages, but now it still exists. I just, I'm horrified. Has it gone up since COVID-19, since we have more poor people?

I'm sure. I'm sure it's up. But let me ask this, Remy. I don't understand why the movie uh sound of freedom created such consternation you would think there would be i mean i saw my marissa vina talking about it she was the actress and she's like people need to know about this that's why we did the film why did i i don't know if i'm gonna see it or not but i don't understand why it created such

a problem i think because it's just been politicized. I think that, you know, uh, they're again, main, one of the main reasons why I wrote the book is to try and, and show how politics divides us and keeps, keeps us on separate sides of the aisle, so to speak. And I think that that's what it happens. I think, you know, back, you know, back in, you know, 2016, 2017, 2018, um, you know, Trump was in office. There was a lot of people that were against him and there were a lot of, and then he was for, he was for human trafficking. He stood up a human trafficking task force. He created some, um, some laws against it. And, uh, and, and he advocated for it. And then Tim Ballard,

um, he went to the white house met with trump a couple times i know he met with ivanka a couple times and so you know now you have you have this person who's at the forefront of it tim ballard and the stories about him but you have a whole big group of people that are against his politics. Right. And so when you have these people. Is it against his politics or is it, but is it just the fact that he went to that white house and asked for help? I mean, my thing is like, Hey man, when you got to change, yeah. When you change, need to change social and medical and, and, you know,

if you're going after things that need to be changed quick, I don't care who's in the White House. I'm going to go ask for help or if I can be of help. Yeah. 100%. I'm an independent free market capitalist. I'm not a Democrat or Republican. And for me, when it comes to this fight,

I don't care who's in office, whether it's Biden, whether it's Trump, I don't care who it is. Whoever's going to get behind helping fight this atrocity, at the end of the day, it's modern day slavery. Let's say what it is, right? Human trafficking is the cute term for it, but the reality is slavery. And anybody that's going to give me a. And I've worked with human trafficking nonprofits that were on the right and very conservative. And I've worked with human trafficking nonprofits that were in between. I don't care what your political background is. For me, it's all about, are we going to get the job done? And I think that that mentality comes from my time in the military. When you're in the military as a SEAL, you don't care who's in office. You care about the job. Here's the job. Here's how you have to go after.

Here's how you're going to protect the nation. I'm going to get the job done. I don't care. I served under Obama and I served under Bush. I didn't care who was giving me. It was like, what's the job? And am I going to do my job effectively so me and my boys come back alive? And again, I think that people have just politicized it so much.

And then, you know, the QAnon thing has really screwed it up as well. You know, you do have these nutbags who come up with these theories and put stuff out there. And then they give ammunition to those who are already somewhat opposed or skeptical of the topic of human trafficking. And so now when you bring up that, you know, I've had people come in and say, Oh, you're you work in human trade? You? Is that the QAnon thing? You I'm like, No, fool. I know Q. I'm not QAnon, bro. Like, I've worked, I've seen this stuff firsthand. Like, there's open source information, a quarter of information out there about the realities of sex

trafficking, organ harvesting more, and they coming out more and more every day. I don't associate with them. I'm all about using the facts and getting the job done. So I think that a lot of the hoopla has come from the fact that, you know, Tim was working with a particular candidate, well, a president, and a lot of people didn't like that, and I think that, you know, that's where it comes from. I could be wrong. I also think that this is a theory that'd be wrong as well i also believe that

you know there's a the people at the top of these of these companies like like disney are asking some questions because that film was made for 14.5 million dollars you know and and it wasn't financed by fox a lot of people don't realize that i i know because i was around when when when tim was before timmy started making the movie the movie was independently financed and what happened was uh after it was independently financed they sold the distribution rights to fox a few years later a couple of years later uh uh disney bought fox and disney shelved the project and then and then years a few couple years after that angel studios came in and bought the project and they distributed the project and now it's closing in on 150 million dollars now around the same time

sound of freedom came out indiana jones came out same studio that had Sound of Freedom. That film, $300 million budget is losing money. It's probably going to lose the studio $200 million. So now when you have a studio that had a project that costs $14.5 million and is now closing in on $150 million, which would have made them a very nice profit. And they haven't even released it internationally yet. This is just the domestic numbers are 150 million what happens when that film releases internationally it's going to do even more money and so you you have shareholders who are probably at the top saying what the hell why did you make that decision to show this movie and then make this movie that's now going to cost us 200 plus million. And so to justify it, again,

this will be a theory some people have talked about. Well, it was because it was a QAnon. Well, it was because this guy was involved in this and that. And, you know, yeah, they may not be saying that directly, but they may be saying that to outlets who they have relationships with to essentially carry out this campaign, just like you and Susan were talking about earlier,

about the campaign that's being carried out against you guys, you know, to carry out this campaign in order to try and discredit the film because they need to come up with a reason as to why they made a bad business decision. Because at the end of the day, it ain't show business. Right. Oh, interesting. Yeah. It's very interesting. I like that.

And then there's, well, there's another flavor to the theory, too, which I never really thought about, which is I didn't realize that Trump went out hard on human trafficking. And then, then the people on the right must say to themselves, well, why is anybody pushing back? How could you push back on that? I mean, you take an issue with that. There must be a conspiracy. There must be somebody, you know, there must be some pedophile behind it or something. They get all crazy with the conspiracy thinking, you know everybody calm down calm down let's see everybody i love i love

i love the pragmatic approach that you're advocating which is let's get the job done let's get the job done let's help people let's get the job done everybody that's where we all should be focused we shouldn't be worried about who gets the job done or how we get, just get the damn job done. Let's do it with as little, uh, uh, collateral damage as possible and as economically as possible. Well, my friend, uh, once again, it's been, I can, it's so interesting to me. I've talked, we've spoken probably four times on shows and every time I learned something new and I'm, and you've enlightened me every time. So when it comes time to talk about the new project, unscripted project, which you alerted me to a couple weeks ago and I'm like, oh my God, that is a winner. That is a winner.

Did I tell you, Susan? No, I mean, I love everything Remy does. Well, I probably kept it quiet. When somebody says don't say anything, I don't say anything. I just... We went and saw Airplane though. We saw Airplane. Yes. love everything remy does well i i probably kept it quiet when somebody says don't say anything i don't say anything i just we went saw airplane though we saw airplane yes and yes and it reminded me of the mh370 disappearance i was like this is what i always thought happened she's convinced that you were that was the real story of mh360 that's so funny has a minute, I think my mom's in. Oh, she's not back yet.

Sorry. Okay. All right. Well, Remy, I mean, Caleb has a question for you. Go ahead. Yeah. Remy, you are definitely, I always want to jump on whenever you're here because you're one of the most interesting guests that we have.

You have so many different lives that you've lived. And I'm just always so proud of every time I see you in the news. I'm really proud of you. So I remember watching your short film, unexpected which is it's very intense but i highly recommend it to everybody and something that stood out to me is how in the movie in the short film you dug deeper into the organ harvesting gang leaders themselves and instead of portraying them as these one-dimensional evil villains you actually showed them as immoral but complicated human beings involved in a criminal enterprise. And I wondered if in your work of capturing these people, have you noticed patterns in the type of person who leads these

organ harvesting and human trafficking gangs? Do they have families of their own that they go home to and they keep this secret from them? Or is this exclusively sociopaths or do they convince themselves? Is it just an illicit business or who are these people? are involved who they have families of their own you know they have families of their own then you have some of these people who are involved who who they manipulate their own children or or to get into into sex trafficking or other parts of of traffic or or labor you know right or you know other forms of trafficking then you have those who are just they're desperate poor and they just want to make money for them it's just business it's not that they're desperate, poor, and they just want to make money. For them, it's just business. It's not that they're, this might sound bad, but it's not that they're evil, holy evil per se. It's that for them, it's about survival. And again, when you look at human trafficking,

a lot of it is desperation on everybody's end. When you have people who are being manipulated to sell organs, why? Because they're desperate. And in the other end, when you have people that are doing the work, it's because in some cases they're desperate. One of the key ways, I believe, to get rid of human trafficking across the board is you've got to fix the problem with poverty. Right. Because that's where these traffickers, they pray for. No problem.

Easy. Easy peasy, Remy. Easy peasy. I agree with you. That's an easy solution. That's an easy solution to get to. That's a hard solution to get to. You know what I mean?

And so as far as your question, it's a wide demographic of people. Sometimes it's, hey, you know what? There was a Navy SE seal that i served with got involved with prison he's in prison he just got sentenced to federal prison uh well now hold on a second so to the other side right so but you you but hey a second because this one of the intriguing things about you is you understand the flip sides of people's relationship with the what's wrong. You know what I mean? Because you, you were on that side and you flipped it over the right. What makes somebody flip back? That's harder for me to understand. You don't know, man, this guy, he was a former Navy SEAL, got out.

I worked with him. I own a co-owner consulting company with him. Didn't know, man. This guy was a former Navy SEAL, got out. I worked with him. I co-owned a consulting company with him. Didn't know. Family guy. Loved his wife. Loved his kids. And was essentially creating child pornography, you know, and putting it on the dark web. And now he's sitting in federal prison. You know, and he's going to be in there for the rest of his life.

So it's like, but I didn't see that coming. Do you know he's going to be in there for the rest of his life so it's like but i didn't see that coming do you know what i mean i i didn't see that come up at all most of us did it what he was doing so like i said it's it's a bit more complex there's no one right size fits all as it relates to you know who's the type of people and then you have a lot of women who are also leading the charge on a lot of this human trafficking stuff. It's not just men because women are typically, especially when you get into these other countries, they play a role in grooming and recruiting. Look at Ghislaine Maxwell. Ghislaine Maxwell was the head recruiter as it related to victims for Epstein and all of the people that were having sex with these kids. So, um, you never know. Right. So that's the, I, I see.

This would be another thing. Sorry, sorry, sorry. This would be another thing. Yeah. The woman who consulted on my film, the unexpected, when I'm, she was on the, on a white house human trafficking board. Okay. When I met her and that's why I met her and we connect, I was like, Hey, I want you to get with the actresses and talk to them and this and that her her grandfather trafficked her in church sold her to different guys in the church her grandfather and her name is jenison right and she talks about this openly and so you know it nobody knew what was going on right and so i can i can i can understand that

aspect of where certain people in certain areas of the world where they reach such a desperate place of poverty that it almost forces it it's this desperation that that drives them in that case but i'm thinking about the people who are leading these organizations that are running the infrastructure of it that they are thinking of themselves as businessmen in a way yes they're the ones that are higher up that i think that's more greed than desperation though right but is is it greed because there's so many other industries that they could go into that that are not as risky as this like this is something where if you get caught and you go to prison for it, it is not a good prison stay for you. This is not, you don't get treated well by other criminals. And so how are they, have you, do people that are the ringleaders of this that aren't as

desperate because they are obviously making money off of this, what are their motivations? And how do they, do they actually, do they go home and they're like, their wife understands that this is what their life is and where the money comes from? Caleb, you're struggling. I don't think his wife knows. Yeah, you're struggling to get your head around this. And just file it under never assume somebody's mind or brain works like yours does. Right.

Never make that assumption. I wish it was true. But wouldn't that mean they're like a sociopath? Raymond works in the world of motivation. The motivation, well, sociopath is one flavor, but motivation is an extremely complicated landscape, and we don't pay enough attention to it. And Ram is an expert in it.

And I wanted to ask you this. Don't you agree we should be paying much more attention to human motivation and less to what words they said? What was the word they used? What's their motivation? What are they all about? Money. be paying much more attention to human motivation and less to what words they said, you know, what was the word they use? What's their motivation? What are they all about? Money.

Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I, one, I think it's money too. Again, it's different for everybody. Maybe 90% of it is money. 10% of it's desperate. Maybe 50%. I don't think that there's like a, I think everybody is different when you start looking at these people at the top.

But I also think just like politicians, you know, you get a politician who will enter into Congress and, you know, their main goal is to serve the people through and through. Honestly, that's where their heart is. But then somebody shows them, hey, here's a loophole. Oh, here's a way you could do some insider trading. I'm not going to do that. But then they start seeing the benefit of it. And it's a loophole oh here's a way you could do some insider trading i'm not going to do that but then they start seeing the benefit of and it's a gradual process oh i was able to make an extra two million nobody i was able to make it now i'm going to keep doing this and i'm going to make a career of this i think it's also with some of these people it's a gradual process they get a

taste of it and they build up to it and that's i, I think that's a lot of organized crime, even in drug dealing and other things, it starts out small and then it grows up big. And then before you know it, I got to maintain this lifestyle. Even when I just look at the stuff that I was doing, cause I was in crime. So I understand it from that perspective. You know, I got this money, I started making this money selling drugs and I progressed to the cell phone thing. I'm making tens of thousands of dollars a week. And it's like, that i'm at this at this this this at the top at the apex of what i'm doing right i don't want to go back down so i need to maintain slippery slow which is going to lead to me having to keep doing this right right and is that that's that that makes

so much sense because it must be a slow progression this isn't like a family business that they and there's entanglement right and then they're caught there also entanglement too like it's certain they can start to you know coerce you to stay in it you know because yeah you're we got something on you now you're in you're with us you know and that's it so listen guys i i gotta wrap this all up um yeah yeah I mean, and they're, you know, human evil is a very strange thing. You know, people have a fantasy that somebody twirling their mustache. It is rarely that. I mean, there are psychopaths and do horrible things. And even then, those, you don't see that until you find out what they're doing on the dl you know they're they're

they're over here somewhere doing that crazy stuff uh they are able to hide it from people so it's not a caricature like people think it's it's something far more human and in that way it's even more sort of disturbing or unbelievable you know that because it's still it's still us somehow we're still some potential in the human that goes sideways so all right well listen okay congratulations the book lots what's that sorry remy do you do you think that since you've been doing this for so many years have you seen the rise of like cryptocurrencies and bitcoin worsening the situation or is this still an industry that's not affected? You know, I've heard that cryptocurrency is being used as a means of payment. But I do know that a

lot of stuff is happening via social media. And you have there was a Nigerian engineer in 2021 that was arrested in India because he had created this elaborate website that looked like a looked like a hospital's website and he was doing transactions on the website so um i've heard that bitcoin and cryptocurrency is involved but the almighty dollars was being used for the most part from what i understand so it's like hiding in plain sight it seems to be the strategy bitcoin can't be making things better you can't be making things better caleb can't be making things better, Caleb. It cannot be. It can only make things worse, that's for sure.

All right, so the book is out tomorrow. Please get the book. Are we going to see you somewhere? Other than going to see you at Dwight Howard, which I would give anything to go see. We're going to be briefly in New York on Thursday, but not tomorrow. And if you and Dwight are hanging around on Thursday,

please let us know or Friday rather. We'll take some pictures. We'll take some pictures. And yeah, if everybody, Why'd you put it out on the web? Why'd you stream it out? Stream it out somewhere. They were trying to motivate people to get there opposed to having them on zoom. So we have a large crowd. It's a lot of people showing up man so it's it's we're gonna i think we might end up at capacity but uh yeah everybody congratulations in book two i'm gonna deal

with some human trafficking in there as well because again maintaining that that fictional extension of my story so let's make book one a big success so we could do book two and uh please support it and and i heard a hook today that you should lean on which is your solutions you've got solutions in there to the division and yeah people are looking at their hunger for that right now so yeah it's about it's about creating unity in our nation you know yes it yes, it's an action thriller. Yes, there's espionage. Yes, you'll be excited. But at the same time, you'll get this inception, this idea of national unity, unity within our nation against everybody,

regardless of their race or political background, so that we can have an America 50, 60, 70 years from now. Look for at Remy, Remy, at Remy Adelike. You see it there in the right-hand corner of the screen, I guess, left-hand corner, whatever direction you're looking at it. Follow him on Twitter.

Instagram is the same, right? Is that true? Yep. Yep. Instagram, LinkedIn. Have a great time tomorrow with Dwight.

Please say hi to him for me. And I'll see you soon. I see you soon. Thank you so much, Susan. Thank you so much, Dr. Drew and Caleb. I you soon i'll see you soon thank you so much susan thank you so much dr drew and caleb i appreciate you all thank you for having me on thanks man always a pleasure and uh everyone else we'll see you tomorrow uh let me want to put up what's coming up here caleb very quickly uh we have three o'clock tomorrow uh the 25th natalie winters and the 26th, Joseph Freeman.

And then Kelly's going to take a couple shows on Rome while we are out of the country for about 10 days. And that's Dr. David Cortland coming on August 2nd. That's going to be early at 12 p.m. Pacific time. Is that right? Yes, 12 p.m. Pacific time. But I'll see you tomorrow at 3 o'clock. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment.

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