Ask Dr. Drew - Exclusive: Dr. John Littell Speaks After Being Kicked From Sarasota Memorial Hospital Board Meeting w/ Dr. Kelly Victory – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 189

Episode Date: March 5, 2023

Dr. John Littell is a physician who was kicked out of a Sarasota Memorial Hospital board meeting by security guards after suggesting alternative treatments for COVID infections. But a spokesperson for the hospital told reporters that the viral videos “mischaracterize what occurred.” What’s the truth? Dr. Littell joins Dr. Kelly Victory and Dr. Drew LIVE to tell the real story of what happened behind-the-scenes. Dr. John Littell is a Florida family physician who has extensive experience in treating COVID patients. He was an early adopter of aggressive outpatient protocols using “off label” medications – and thus he’s been censored, ridiculed, and even made headlines recently when video showed him being kicked out of a hospital board meeting for daring to speak about the outcome of his treatments. Dr. Littell is the author of “The Hidden Truth: A Physician’s Advice to Women ― and All Who Care for Them” available on Amazon, and can be found online at JohnLittellMD.com. 「 SPONSORED BY 」 • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get 10% off with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. Hundreds of millions of people have received a COVID-19 vaccine, and serious adverse reactions are uncommon. Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician and Dr. Kelly Victory is a board-certified emergency specialist. Portions of this program will examine countervailing views on important medical issues. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 WITH DR. KELLY VICTORY 」 Dr. Kelly Victory MD is a board-certified trauma and emergency specialist with over 30 years of clinical experience. She served as CMO for Whole Health Management, delivering on-site healthcare services for Fortune 500 companies. She holds a BS from Duke University and her MD from the University of North Carolina. Follow her at https://earlycovidcare.org and https://twitter.com/DrKellyVictory. 「 GEAR PROVIDED BY 」 • BLUE MICS - Find your best sound at https://drdrew.com/blue • ELGATO - See how Elgato's lights transformed Dr. Drew's set: https://drdrew.com/sponsors/elgato/ 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And welcome everybody. We will be taking calls today at the end of the program, so get out there on Twitter spaces and we'll be looking for you there. Also, of course, we are as usual on the Restream and the Rumble Rants. Today the guest is John Littell. Restream meaning YouTube and Facebook. And Twitch. And wherever else you might hear this. Twitter also. The Hidden Truth, Physician Advice to Women and All Who Care for Them is Dr. Littell's book. He also made headlines recently when he was escorted out of a board meeting for daring to offer an opinion, which apparently opinions these days have become something that are very threatening and dangerous. Dr. Littell has been active, not just treating COVID patients, but also educating medical students.

And before the mics heated up, we were all sort of sharing ideas about our profession and what has happened to it. And as usual, we are concerned. So we, of course, got Dr. Kelly Victory here. We're watching you on the restream and we'll get you on the Twitter spaces. And let's get right to this now. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this.

He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real.

We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop, and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. BetMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long. We'll be right back. Something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM. A sportsbook worth a slam dunk.

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As I said, Dr. Littell will be here in just a minute, so will Dr. Kelly Victory. And I was just listening to that opening, and I'm recalling what I was talking about when I said that our laws around drugs in this country are draconian and bizarre. We have gone in many states now to the exact opposite extreme, so they're still draconian and bizarre, but in a completely opposite direction. And that was not what I intended by that statement 10 years ago. So here we are. Again, the government has an uncanny ability

to do things worse than any other organization I've ever seen. All right. Susan, you want to bring something? Your skin is looking amazing today with no makeup, right? Yes. Susan threw this at me yesterday

in the middle of the show, the red-out genius. So I put it on, and you may have noticed that something changed. We all noticed. I said, Drew, what's wrong with your skin? You need to put on some makeup before the show. He said, no.

No, she said, ew, it looks like hamburger. No, it looks like hamburger. That's what you said. Sounds like her. It looks like you slid down a ski hill on your face. Okay, much better. It was dry. There were little white flakes. It was bleeding because you shave your face. Okay, much better. It was dry. There were little white flakes.

It was bleeding because you shave your face and sometimes you shave it really close. So anyways, during the break, I ran to the bedroom because I just recently got a new container of the red, what's it called? An anti-redness. Can you read it?

Redness repair. Redness repair. I said, you want to put that on because i know it's the only product that drew can put on his face without stinging him without getting cysts he gets and he gets in it stings sometimes when you put product on your face when it's that raw and i saw results by the end of the show i would it i couldn't believe it well i actually prepared it before yeah i can show you the before and after this is a real quick cut he anticipated this conversation he anticipated this it was so impressive we're gonna clarify this is a sponsor but everybody susan is already very upset because i i got a little burn on my cheek here from uh essentially new york water that does it to me a

lot of the time and so uh she wanted to put makeup on me and I objected. So now the fact that people are noticing it has her very upset. So I thought we'd get that out of the way right up. I wanted to give you the anti-redness cream. Well, let's bring it on in. We'll put it on during the show. It's true. Yeah, there you go.

Now this is not, to be fair, that's a sponsor, but this is not a sponsored segment. Look at how raw his skin was. This is a Susan Pinsky segment because she's so delighted with herself. I am a snob when it comes to using stuff on my face. And so are you. You're a bigger snob, okay? No, no.

You're a snob when it comes to you using stuff on my face or your face. Well, I've tried everything because I don't like seeing you that raw. Enough. Let's get to it. We've got to get to the show, shall we? But it works. Yes. Thank you for that. And we'll be taking calls with myself and Kelly at the very end of the show. But now I want to bring in our guest is Dr. John Little. He's a family practitioner.

He is an educator, a medical educator. He also is an author. He has a website, which is JohnLittle, M-D-L-I-T-T-E-L, Littell, rather. Dr. Littell, welcome to the program. You got it. I'm happy to be here. It's Littell. I know we have just met.

It's L-I-T-T-E-L-L, as I've been saying for 60 years. That's great. Sorry that we're part of the, we need the primer. I'm sorry about that. But let's get to your career. So you're a family practitioner. Have you always been in Florida? What's the arc of your career?

Because I want to bring it to the present moment and really talk about how bizarre our present moment is. No, I mean, I grew up in Long Island and a Mets fan. There you go. And I was fortunate enough to go to Cornell. Neither one of my parents went to college. My goal since I was six years old was to be a doctor. You probably might have had the same aspirations, Drew and Kelly. So I love the profession of medicine. I knew as a child there's nothing I want to do more important than that. I was privileged to be able to go to George Washington. In order to pay for GW, I joined the Army. So I spent seven wonderful years in the United States Army Medical Corps, did a lot of amazing things with them, and spent a year with the National Health Service Corps in Montana, two years in Michigan, both under the employ of hospitals. Wow, that was a mistake. And then I thank God I got recruited to Florida in 1998 to work in a

very large independent practice. And I've never looked back. I went on my own solo in 2003. And that's the ticket, being solo, being independent. Yeah. I myself have been practicing medicine since 1988. I did work for a hospital. I worked for a psychiatric hospital.

And I had leadership positions in hospitals. And I taught medicine and psychiatry the whole time. I know you taught family practice, is that where you were teaching? Dr. Oh yes, I'm board certified in family medicine, and there's nothing I haven't done thanks to the great training I got in the Army, to be honest with you. So I delivered babies for 25 years, still do women's health care, newborn care in the hospital. I'm the only doctor here who does pediatric inpatient care, including the pediatricians who stopped going to the hospital. Matter of fact, most doctors stopped going to the hospital in most specialties in the last 10, 15 years. And so I'm kind of a dinosaur in that I will not let my

patients be in any hospital that I can conceivably get to. So I go through a lot to keep my privileges up at major hospital systems in the area, two in particular. Yeah, in internal medicine, they go to great lengths to squeeze you out and have the hospitalist take over. I walked the hospital floors for 30 years doing inpatient hospital ICU. We used to manage everything in the ICU. We didn't need an intensivist. We did it ourselves.

We did that for years and years. And they're not even training them in that any longer, which I find terribly, terribly problematic. In addition to this eight-hour-a-day sort of thinking about medicine, I, like you, thought I was doing something so important. I don't think the current generation feels the way we did. They certainly didn't behave like that during COVID. No, you know, I tell the medical students all the time, you're spending four years of your

career in medical school and three years in what's known as a residency. And the reason it's called residency, as you remember, is because we were residents. We lived in the hospital environment for three years. And then they come out into any other specialty, let's say family medicine or pediatrics. And I will talk to the medical students, I say, how could you be content to take care of your patients when they're well enough to drive to your office, and then when they're sick enough to have to be in the hospital, for the first time in their life, they're sick unto death, and you abandon them, even though you've learned your art and the science medicine in the hospital setting. So there has been, because of this hospitalist movement, taking over for the hospital care. And by the way, those hospitalists and the obstetrical and

the pediatric hospitalists, they again are under the thumb of the hospital. They have exclusive contracts with the hospital. So they follow, they toe the line with the hospitals. And instead of having the patient in the hospital, have their advocate be the doctor who knows them best. And this, of course, was a nightmare during COVID, an utter nightmare for patients who had long relationships with their doctors. The doctors abandoned them in the hospitals and even abandoned them in the offices. So many of my colleagues shut down their offices during COVID. And some even to this day, if you're sick with cold symptoms,

we're not going to see you because the fear factor, the doctors themselves, for the first time in my career of 33 years, I saw doctors afraid to take care of sick patients. And it was just very upsetting. Yeah, it was weird. I mean, we cut our teeth on the HIV epidemic and we'd go in the room with all kinds of crazy infectious diseases. Tuberculosis was a routine fare in my life. And I don't, it was a very odd thing. It was a really, and part of it is,

as you're pointing out, that we discovered, lo and behold, that over 60% of physicians are employees. And the employer told them to stand down and don't treat patients, tell them to go home until they come back short of breath, dying, which was one of the most extraordinary, bizarre chapters I could ever imagine in the history of medicine. Yeah. And you mentioned the 60% that are employed. Remember that most of the rest of the doctors have exclusive contracts with the hospital as well. And yes, I mean, my very first patient, and I shared this when I went to Sarasota just a little over a week ago, I said my very first patient was an HIV positive patient with Kaposi's

and pneumocystis sarcoma, pneumocystis pneumonia, I should say, pneumocystis corona. And what I was trying to convey about that episode in the mid-80s, and then even when I took care of Haitian refugees who had malaria and tuberculosis and TB, that these patients were treated- Hold on a second. What just happened here? There we go. So something happened to somebody's mic. Was that, Susan, was that you? Maybe. No, you're there. Who to help me here. You're there. Okay. Dr. Littell went, went away from me. So go ahead. Can finish the Haitian refugees.

Yeah. The Haitian refugees. I was able to take care of them during, uh, uh, when I was in the military in Guantanamo Bay and they came in with all sorts of infectious challenges and we were with them. We never isolated them other than to keep them apart from each other, intense and obviously in isolation rooms in the hospitals with HIV. But we as physicians, as a medical community, embraced them. If not physically, at least we gave them compassion. We were with them. And we never thought twice about our own, necessarily our own well-being.

We weren't fearful because we knew that there were remedies. And even with COVID, hey, newsflash, there were remedies for COVID. I never feared once about getting it. I got it twice in the last few years. Never wore a mask, never got vaxxed, obviously. And I treated myself with the early effective treatment protocols. And I wish to God, we had the ability to give every man, woman, and child, forget the children, they weren't even affected, but all these people in the hospitals, the early effective treatment, it would have been an amazingly different world. It would have been an amazingly different world if we could have done that. And, you know, you mentioned HIV and, you know, that was an epidemic

with a 100% fatality rate at the time we were working in it. Not a 2%, not a 6%, 100%. It was a much, much more serious illness. But okay. So you may be the perfect person for me to ask this question before I bring Dr. Victory in. I've been very confused why the extraordinary push to vaccinate kids. I was going over some of the data yesterday, and I'm convinced personally, now again, we all, each one of us have our own opinion about the vaccines and, you know, what kinds of treatments

we should be offering our patients. But I've been persuaded that in the much older population, 65 plus, 70 plus, the vaccine has utility. Certainly, you know, I got myself in a really tough situation with a tuberculosis patient a couple weeks ago. And having that patient had been vaccinated gave me a certain amount of security in making some of the clinical choices I had to make. Because I couldn't use certain things because he was on liver toxic medication. It was a very complicated situation. But it gave me some, I thought to myself, I'm so glad he had been vaccinated. It gives me something I can lean on. And when you look at the data on adults, there are about 1,200 deaths a week from COVID in this country. Pediatric patients, there are about 400 per year. Per year. Why?

And I get children dying. That's why I don't do pediatrics. I can't even deal with it. But 400 per year of kids with underlying conditions of various types, let's be clear about that, versus 1,200 a week, how can you even show a benefit of vaccination, number one? And then number two, let's say you think you have shown it. Why the push until you're really clear that the vaccine is safe? Do you have a theory about what – and let's say they're well-meaning and they person could that person be thinking to persuade them that they must vaccinate in a situation there's a couple hundred deaths per year? Well, there's two things I have to respond to.

Number one is this COVID death distortion that's out there. I have seen this firsthand. The hospitals have been testing every sick person for COVID and many well people for COVID that come in for elective procedures. So a COVID death to this day is anybody who dies with a positive test, irregardless of the symptomatology. And I made a video about that. Case numbers were never an issue for me. A case of COVID, as I said in an early video, we didn't, you and I never used to talk about a case of measles as someone who was tested positive, but not sick. You had to be sick to have a case of measles. COVID, you don't have to be sick. But number two, with the vaccines, wow, this is so troubling. In the world of pediatrics,

especially, vaccines have become primary prevention for every illness. That is what they consider primary prevention. When, as you and I and our ancestors in medicine would have said, primary prevention is a healthy diet and exercise and all the things you talk about, I'm sure, all the time. Primary prevention is preventing- But Dr. Lytle, if I could interrupt, we know this vaccine doesn't prevent infection, and we know most kids have been infected. What in the world, what am I missing? Am I missing that they could possibly be thinking? What are you missing? I don't know. We do know children have incredibly robust immune systems

that they needed to be exposed to this, not masks and not quarantine. They damaged our children by isolating them. This is what we saw this past year with an incredibly, a credible bunch of sick kids this last year. I mean, I had never had more sick kids in my career than this last year because all these kids had been isolated the last two years from each other and not allowed to be exposed to the natural germs and develop a robust natural immunity, which now we all agree is superior. So, no, what's driving the train for vaccines? That's where you and I get to be called conspiracy theorists.

I think we all know what's driving the train. And it's not medicine. It's not science. Well, Dr. Littell, we're going to bring my colleague, Dr. Kelly Victory, in here, who has lots of strong opinions as well. We, as I've said a couple times, we'll take a couple calls from the Twitter spaces after we finish our interview with Dr. Littell. You can follow Dr. Littell at johnlittellmd.com. And I was going to talk to you a little bit about women's health. I know that's been a very serious concern of yours for a long time, but I don't know.

We may have to come back and talk about that. It's a whole big topic of its own. There is his truth about the hidden truth. I can't quite read it. Deception of women's health care. Deception of women's health care. All right, let's take a little break, and we'll be back with Dr. Kelly Victory after this.

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Visit birchgold.com slash true today. Some platforms have banned the discussion of controversial topics. This episode ends here. The rest of the show is available at drdrew.tv. There's nothing in medicine that doesn't boil down to a risk-benefit calculation. It is the mandate of public health to consider the impact of any particular mitigation scheme on the entire population. This is uncharted territory, Drew. Dr. Kelly Victory, I give you Dr. John Littell. Dr. Littell, so happy to have you here. Although you and I have not been working face-to-face

during this pandemic, we certainly are in this, have been in the same COVID work groups, communicating on a weekly, if not daily basis. And I feel very comfortable in saying that there is no daylight between our positions and our opinions on pretty much everything related to this debacle. Everything from the falsification of the case numbers, as you said, from the beginning,

my tagline has been the virus is real, the statistics are not. And then on to masking and lockdowns and school closures, and then fast forward now to vaccines. And I want to talk about all of those things, as well as you and I share a commonality in having suffered the slings and arrows of derision, censorship, and you most recently, just horrific treatment at the hands of your colleagues at one of your hospitals in Florida. But I wanna start with the fact that you, more than any, certainly more than I,

and more than most of the physicians who I've worked with during this pandemic, have treated thousands, if I'm right, thousands of COVID patients. And you treated them successfully because you adopted aggressively the early treatment protocols. We lived through an unprecedented time of what I call therapeutic nihilism,

this idea that there was no treatment for COVID and people were led to believe that they were destined to wait until they turned blue and then ended up in the hospital. So talk, if you would, for a little, take some time here and talk a little bit about your experience treating COVID patients, both inpatient and outpatient, the early treatment protocols and sort of how you worked your way through that morass and had the kind of successful outcomes that you had. Well, thanks again, Kelly. Yes, we both been through a lot

and I have to say it was always a work in progress, always relied on conversations with all of our other colleagues that you've visited with, Dr. Pierre Corey, Dr. McCullough, Richard Erso down in Texas, so many of us that really, we were, at one point, especially when Delta came out, we all were scrambling, and I'm sure you remember that time. With the alpha variant, the initial stages, I was fortunate. I had already gotten my hands on an article on the role of quinine derivatives that was actually published in China early in like February of 2020. And my first patient was a nurse, a critical care nurse who took care of the first patient that died here in

Ocala from COVID. She was with him for 12 hours straight on her shift. She developed the symptoms. She herself, interesting, this is why we listen to our patients right she already knew about hydroxychloroquine and so I started her as she was part of a prayer group of people that got sick and I treated several they'd all been together at a prayer meeting and they all got sick and I I began early on to use the hydroxychloroquine and of course that was sufficient for the alpha if in my experience, sufficient for the alpha variant. With Delta, it no longer was sufficient because people were coming in sicker, hypoxic, beginning the cytokine storm, beginning the microthrombosis. We pulled out every stop. And that's where, at the same time, my oldest daughter got out of residency

in family medicine and just, she'd dive right in. She wanted to come work for me. I said, my Lord, did she work for me. She was was the hardest working newly minted family physician in the country because she was doing the telehealth stuff while I was seeing the patients and getting back to that work ethic we discussed earlier really being on call 24 7 calls literally 2 3 in the morning from every anywhere from New York to California, and even abroad, people calling that could not get their hands on the medications. Uh, or it was a, it was the hardest by far time work of my work life, even including my military experience. And, uh, I just think I'm thanking God for the people that were brought into my life that, that helped me to understand how to manage these patients. Because when I was going in the hospital,

the only other person in the country taking care of hospitalized patients at that time was Pierre Corey. Knows nobody else. You can imagine this huge country of ours. I couldn't find another voice of reason about how to manage hospital patients, except for one fellow who was,

I think at that time in Wisconsin, if he hadn't already been kicked out of that hospital. And we saved lives as a team by the grace of God. No. And by the way, I would tell our listeners, and I've mentioned this before, that the idea of having used hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID wasn't something that you or anybody else pulled out of thin air. This dates back to, there's a great research article that was published in 2005 under the auspices of Anthony Fauci stating that chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine were highly effective to treat SARS-CoV-1. We learned that during the SARS-CoV-1

outbreak in 2003. So this concept of using repurposed drugs as you and Pierre Corey and Richard Urso and Peter McCullough and others began to adopt was something that this is the cornerstone of medicine to have done that. So you were on the bleeding edge or the leading edge of that fight. What was your experience like as time went on in the hospital trying to treat COVID patients with the early treatment protocols? Wow. The hospitals obviously were and still are resistant to any of these medications. And as I've shared, and I did share in Sarasota last week, the only person who was able to get the full dosing for ivermectin that was required during the early days of COVID was the mayor of our town who actually called me. And the only reason I can share this, you would think this is HIPAA. It's not HIPAA because he shared at the city council meeting.

He actually thanked Dr. Littell. I asked him, I have permission to share this. But he had the fire chief and the police chief and EMTs at his home. And he was hypoxic. And they said, you know, Mr. Mayor, you have to go to the hospital. They heard about me and they called me and I said, OK, I'll put you in the hospital. I can't make any guarantees. Well, the hospital made an exception for him.

He got the full dose of ivermectin. He's in his 70s. He was out duck hunting a week later okay meanwhile i had patients that were coming in the hospital that they were denying ivermectin to at the same time that ended up two months in the hospital surviving by the skin of their teeth or patients for whom i had to sneak in or give their family members the ivermectin to bring in because that was the only thing that was working along with the high dose corticosteroids and the blood thinners, which were being ignored by of all people, the intensive care doctors, they were not using adequate doses of steroids

or anticoagulants. It was mind boggling. When I went to have a conversation about it, they would just turn me, they would, who are you? I'm a family doctor. What do I know? And God forbid a patient asked, you know, did you hear the story real quick? The hospital is rounding on the patient in the COVID

unit, the COVID, the patient who's been there for weeks and is dying. And he says to the doctor, would you please, would you please give me some of this ivermectin? And I heard the young hospitalist say, I've been doing this for months. I'm using these protocols. People are either living or dying. I don't want to hear any of your conspiracy nonsense that you're reading. And I caught that young doctor in the hallway. And I said, do you realize to this young doctor who I previously respected, I said that patient on his phone in his bed for two weeks knows more about how to treat COVID than you do in your little finger, because you're just nothing but a robot following these protocols and you're not allowing yourself to be exposed to new

ideas. And that's what I saw day in and day out in the hospital setting. No, it really is tragic. And that's fodder for an entire show of its own, my disillusion with our own profession. It really has been disheartening to see what's happened to our colleagues. And let's actually talk about that. You know, as I said, you have more experience than pretty much anybody else out there. The people like George Freed and Brian Tyson and others who have, you know, thousands and

thousands of patients to their credit as well. So the stories are growing. But you recently, I think it was just last week, were at a board meeting in your hospital in Sarasota and had the audacity to stand up and speak about your experience. Talk about what happened there. I think we have the video clip, but I'd like to hear first, at least tee it up for us what that experience was. Well, the experience was humbling and unexpected. I went down there with an olive branch, basically hoping that I could have a dialogue. And I actually congratulated this hospital on what was apparently a good track record with regards to other diseases. They're a very highly

rated hospital. I'm not on staff at Sarasota Memorial. I went there feeling obligated to go there to be a voice for the people that I had cared for and what I'd seen. And so I tried to describe, and they only gave me, I asked for more time. They gave me three minutes. It was less than that because I had complimented them first. I shouldn't even have bothered that. And I insisted on speaking further. I actually did take my seat after that. I had driven two and a half hours. I had to leave to come back to Ocala because I mean, I had patients to take care of and a lot of stuff to do. So I walked over to the one board member who was a sympathetic person. She had said wonderful things about us. I bent over and I just said before I left, thank you for your support. I wish I could speak more. And it was at that point,

I had a tap on my shoulder from one security officer and I was asked to leave. I had to get back to where my bag was and my wife was sitting in the audience. Another big security officer came down and said, you need to walk. And then they put me out the door and then an even bigger security officer said, start walking. And that's, that whole thing was, was to say the least unexpected because I said, I'm a doctor. What's going on here? I had no idea what I was being led to. So I was led, essentially marched alone. There was no one there except the security officer and myself. They secured the camera guy, a reporter who was wonderful. In retrospect, I didn't know him. Tried to come out. They wouldn't let him, I think. And then he caught up with me as I got to the door where they said to me, you know, get your keys and get in the car. And I said, well, my wife's in there. I can't get my car. And they said, well, then you need to get out off the hospital

premises. And that's when we went to the sidewalk. But it was unexpected. And unfortunately, a lot of the high, it made the hospital look horrendous. I mean, I'm not sure if they had instructed the security guys to do this with anyone in particular or just me. But I wish to, in retrospect, they had just said, Dr. Littell, let's have a conversation. Yeah. So here you are being, here you are being forceful you are being led out by law enforcement from a hospital board meeting where you you used your allotted time to speak you couldn't look any more professional um

i mean this is this didn't happen even early in the pandemic this is last week this is tyrannical what kind of what what sort of board meeting was this? What was the nature of the meeting? Yes, this was a board meeting that had been put together for the purpose of discussing what took place with hospitalized patients during the COVID, and still does take place with COVID positive patients. And rather than dealing with that issue, the chief of staff stacked the entire two- thirds of that auditorium with supporters of the hospital who talked about how wonderful it was having a baby there. Or when their grandma was there 20 years ago, they did not leave. They left less than a third of the time to actually discuss the problems with the care of the COVID patients.

So they were speeding us up through. And unfortunately, even though they knew I'd driven there, if the chairman of the board had just said, Dr. Littell, thank you for coming. I mean, just one little word of thanks for cleaning out my entire state of patients, which means of course, I work until eight o'clock the next day seeing patients, you guys know the story, you know, and, and, and my own. So I, I was kind of flabbergasted why, when I came complimenting them on actually having this meeting, by the way, this is the only hospital in the country that's had a meeting of this sort. And it's because it's a community hospital where they're allowed to vote in board members. And in the last year, they got three people on the board

that were sympathetic to our cause. And that was enough for them to have an open meeting. Every other hospital in the country would never even dream of having a community meeting, but they should. They should. People deserve to hear what happened to their loved ones. So you were guilty of daring to question what happened. You were guilty of daring to ask why patients weren't allowed to access certain medications. You dared to ask why patients weren't given informed consent. You dared to ask why patients were not allowed to be a participant in the direction of their own care. You had the audacity to question that. And that is what got you walked out. I mean, this is something that honestly, has the hospital responded at all? What is the repercussion of this i immediately after this

happened i actually called the one board member she texted me and she was she was aghast she was apologetic that it happened and i said no i really perhaps and my wife who's very much a follow the rules kind of person her dad was a high school principal she said john you know you really shouldn't have gone down to that board person because that is there is a i said i've never been in a board meeting like this i did did not know I violated protocol. So I basically gave the hospital, I said to the board member, if the hospital wants me to set the record straight, I had no idea this would go viral, but I did say, uh, I would like to talk and I'd like to apologize for if I did something wrong, but I believe they overreacted. I should not have been treated like

a thug walking through those hallways. I mean, the police themselves could have said, I'm sorry, we have to do this. Instead, it was very intimidating. And I'm over the PTSD part of it, but it was a little upsetting for a few days, honestly, for me to have to travel. Well, with all due respect, you do look rather menacing, I have to say. In that white coat, you look so menacing, Dr. Littell. I know I'd run to the other side of the street. Let's switch gears for a minute here now, and let's talk about one of my favorite current topics and one in which Drew and I have disagreed quite a bit over the months, and that's vaccines. I am one who, I was very, very vocal about problems with the vaccines before they were ever rolled out. I had grave concerns about them. And as I maintain, all of medicine boils down to a risk-benefit analysis. And if you are not allowed to understand your true risk from this virus or your complete

lack of risk, as the case may be, then you aren't able to give informed consent and make good decisions. What's been your experience in terms of, you have a huge patient base, you cover many, many different hospitals. What's your experience been with regard to the vaccines in general, including adverse events that you may or may not have seen, vaccine hesitancy. How has that been for you? Well, the easy answer is yes. I've seen cardiac arrhythmias. I've seen re-onsets of cancers that were in remission in patients who have received, particularly

Moderna with the cancers and Pfizer with the cardiac arrhythmias. That said, in the early days of the Delta variant, when this was being rolled out, one of the observations we had, and this is where I think Drew has some, he's got sense about him on this. Even Dr. McCullough and I were having conversations, the people, the older, the geriatric population that had been vaxxed had a little initial wave of protection, assuming they survived the vaccine, right, which most did. But there was a little bit of initial wave of protection, assuming they survived the vaccine, right? Which most did, but they, there was a little bit of edge of protection because their immune system was on alert.

What really is the crime about the vaccines is they never really should have been rolled out in the first place. The reason these elderly people were so hit hard and others at risk by COVID is because they've been isolating themselves, wearing masks, not being exposed to small doses so that their immune systems could have built up a natural immunity. We all in this show agree with that. There shouldn't have been all this unnecessary

masking and quarantining and distancing and even the unnecessary hand washing and stuff. You needed to be exposed to micro doses to build up a natural immunity. But that said, if you were an elderly person in a nursing home that had crappy diet and no sunshine and no vitamin D and someone next to you got COVID, in the initial stages of the Delta, the people who were vaxxed were probably protected for a little while. Now, then we saw that that was very short life protection, nowhere near what we saw with the naturally immune patients I have. So to let you know, I'm here right near the villages. I have hundreds of patients, if not thousands, from the villages in Florida, and they have robust

natural immunities, folks who did not get vaccinated. They skated right through Omicron and the recent variants. So there was a small interval during which the vaccine had some efficacy, but in the net harm, net harm to people, I would have to say without a shadow of a doubt. Okay. And then now also you have some expertise in women's health, clearly.

And I know that we are seeing concerning problems in women's health, everything from menstrual problems to issues with fertility and now worrisome increases in miscarriages and stillbirths. I just read the study out of Singapore, Singapore being one of the most heavily vaccinated countries in the world. And they had nearly a twofold increase in stillbirths in this past year. What, from a women's health perspective, have you seen any impact on your patient population? Well, I've been dealing with infertility for years. It's a big thrust in my book,

and the people who've had recurring miscarriages is one of my expertise. I give more progesterone, I think, than any doctor around because what progesterone does in early stages of pregnancy is it improves blood flow into the developing, through the developing placenta to the baby. So what you see with spike protein is you get microthrombosis, you know, the small blood clots. So that can and certainly does trigger miscarriages and later on, presumably the stillborn, it's a lack of adequate blood supply to the developing baby. So have I seen it personally? I don't do the advanced obstetrical care that I used to, but our local obstetrician in town, who's been here for 40 years, even took me aside a year ago, said, John, I have not seen so many miscarriages in my

40 year career as I have in the last year. And we had two stillborn babies in one week shortly after the rollout of the vaccines, and we had gone years with none. So it's not a huge hospital, and it's anecdotal. But if you look across the globe, and I guess you just mentioned in Singapore, it is no surprise to me that this bombardment of the spike protein getting into the women's developing circulation, the maternal fetal circulation. The exchange between the mother and the baby is impaired by the spike proteins, which causes coagulation, the microthrombosis. And so one thing I have said to every woman who's trying to have a baby out there in the early stages, get a progesterone

level and find a doctor that understands progesterone support in pregnancy. Something I discussed in an article I've written, actually, it's on my website in natural womanhood, I believe it appeared and also in the book. Well, we've had Dr. Ryan Cole, as who I know you know, as a guest of ours a couple of times, and he has actually shared with us, he has looked at placentas unfortunately from some of these um miscarriages and said that they are across the board small way small for gestational age and he is seeing these calcifications and the thrombosis as you said within the placentas which really i think, speaks to spike protein damage and probably is part of the causative issue with regard to these fertility problems. I'm sorry, were you coming in with

something? I agree. We used to, in medical training, we would show a placenta and, you know, a healthy placenta. The medical students would see the healthy placenta, you remember this? And then they'd show the placenta of the IUGR baby, which was all shriveled up and gray, and then just being smokers. So you're basically getting out of that baby's circulation. It's horrendous. And so just to translate what we're talking about, is the IUGR is intrauterine growth retardation. So babies that don't fail to develop because of placental failure. And I'm on the record having apologized to Naomi Wolf about the at least five mechanisms that might be entering into the menstrual irregularities

as enlightened to us by Dr. Cole, which is they're seeing spike proteins in the myelin cells. They're seeing spike proteins in the neuronal lipid bilayer membranes. They're seeing spikes in the adrenals, in the ovaries, and potentially with changes in the, what was it, plasminogen activator inhibitor that may be causing bleeding at the level of the uterus as well.

So there's multiple mechanisms now that have been identified that are interfering with possibly fertility and normal menstrual functioning. I want to circle back to what you said about the vaccine in the early days. I'm in good shape. I was 62 years old. I had bad COVID, bad. It is a messed up illness when you get it. And monoclonal antibody saved me, kept me out of the hospital. And I took, I'm not sure I've said this publicly, I took hydroxychloroquine, I took ivermectin, I got sicker and really sick. And got a monoclonal antibody

and turned around literally within an hour after that infusion. I mean, literally the room colors got brighter during the infusion. And the nurse that was doing that infusion told me that he saw that on a regular basis, that people had rapid turnarounds. Now, of course, we don't have those monoclonal antibodies anymore, so those aren't even a treatment option really any longer. But the point is, it's a nasty illness in the alpha and delta phase.

And I feel like that by having what might have been a relatively short-lived serious effect on infectivity, right? Let's say four months interruption of viral infection with delta or alpha, we might have done something. We rushed this thing to market. There's no doubt about that. We took risks we would never take in other circumstances, but we did interrupt things a little bit. It wasn't a net null effect. I don't know if we'll ever be able to measure the actual effect, but I still feel as though we did something. The problem as so much in this

pandemic have been the excesses. Now we start mandating it. Now we started giving it to infants. And now the mandating, the overreach, the continued going down the slippery slope, I think that's, we could all agree, that's where we get into trouble. Would you agree with that, Dr. Littell? Well, mandates in general have been a disaster. And that's why I'm happy to live in Florida, where the governor actually called me at the beginning stages and said, what do you think about masks and children especially? And now we have this idea of social engineering. I'm really thankful that my major at Cornell, which was biology and society, prepared me for understanding how easily science can be co-opted for evil. And that is exactly what has happened here. People have become robotic in their behavior, and that includes our fellow doctors.

And can I also say one other thing about monoclonals real quick? You realize in the early days of the monoclonals, the hospitals had complete control over those infusions. I was begging hospitals on a Friday afternoon to get in for patients who had failed the other remedies or it was too late to get them. And the hospitals, oh, I'm sorry, we're not open again until whatever time, Monday or Saturday afternoon. And you had a whole slew of paperwork to complete as a doctor to get rejected. And then what happens? The governor steps up, Governor Santus, and says, the heck with this. We're taking it out of the hospitals. I'm going to open infusion centers in the villages and in front of the Walmart here.

And people could just show up and get their infusions. And so Governor Santus saved lives by doing that and taking it out of the hands. And secondly, if you were an inpatient in the hospital, if you dared to go into that ER, if you were unfortunate enough to go into the ER, guess what? No monoclonal antibody infusions for inpatients. It was denied. You were denied a treatment that we knew was saving lives there, and even the hospitals knew it. Knew it.

That wasn't even questioned. So how did they get away with that? I don't know. I could have told you. There was a lot of—there was more rationing of care than I think people understand. Dr. Cariotti tells us that in the early days of the shortages of ventilators, they were trying to determine who would get on a ventilator. And by the way, medical need was not the concern.

You know, the people that needed the ventilators most for medical reasons were not considered as a top reason for getting the ventilator. Now, Dr. Cariotti is the head of their, at the time, bioethics department, was able to persuade finally that the way to practice medicine is to treat the sickest people and give the treatment to the people that need the treatment, period. But think about the fact that we were rationing care in very bizarre haphazard ways throughout the pandemic. Worse than the ventilator issue, home oxygen. Home oxygen. You have no idea how many hours I spent trying to get oxygen for patients. At one point in time, I had a very well-known lawyer in Orlando who was hypoxic, could not get oxygen. Opria,

one of the largest oxygen supply companies in the country, literally told me on the phone, we're swamped with calls. We no longer are going to the homes of COVID patients. We had to make a decision. They decided to withhold oxygen from the COVID patients. So this particular fellow went out and bought himself a $600 oxygen generator. And he wasn't the only one in this country who did that to keep himself out of the hospital, which he did. So we, you know, so many levels, the pharmacies that refuse to dispense the medications, the oxygen companies, the hospitals, the doctors, everybody failed patients during COVID. And I agree.

No, and I understand your outrage because that's how I feel as well. And I think it's the appropriate emotion. This wasn't, I don't even think that rationing, Drew, is the right word because rationing implies that you have a limited amount of something and you're trying to sort of dispense it equitably or something. This was directing care. Hospitals had a perverse financial incentive to admit people and call them COVID patients. They had a perverse incentive to let them die with COVID because they collected huge sums of money. So in the range of $40,000 more per patient that died with COVID that they got through the CARES Act, and on and on. I think you cannot discount the financial incentives that were there. They put

an absolute kibosh on the use of repurposed drugs like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin because they had to disprove those or they wouldn't have gotten the emergency use authorization. And the thing that I wanted to ask you about next, Dr. Littell, the thing that one of the many things that makes me angry is that as someone for myself who spent their life in medicine and healthcare and you as a family medicine expert, why during all of this was no one allowed to talk about, none of the powers that be talking about the simple safe effective things that you could be doing in addition like supplementing zinc and vitamin d and the idea of taking quercetin why did we lose this huge public health opportunity to educate

people about obesity the single greatest obesity factor. Yeah, obesity, outdoor activities, nasal lavage, simple nasal lavage four times a day showed great efficacy, whether you use Betadine or not. There were all kinds of things we could have been talking about had we been allowed to talk about anything. Had we, as a medical executive, even the staff leaders in our hospital spent hours and hours talking about strategies for isolating patients in the hospital instead of if we could have been talking about ionophores, you know, go back to biochemistry 101, you know, and learn about why zinc is so amazing. And the studies that have been out there by Nobel prize winning scientists on vitamin D and vitamin C, you said, no, we didn't have these conversations as doctors. You weren't allowed to have them. And when I went even in the hospital environment to try to order high levels of vitamins, they didn't have them in the hospital formulary. So, so people were

flocking, flocking everywhere. You know, I have to say real quick, get back to the financial, perverse financial motives that, that nurse that I took care of with the hydroxychloroquine in my very first patient, all right, she wanted to get tested. She worked in the hospital that had the first mortality fatality. They had a limited supply of test kits. They wouldn't let her test herself. At the same time, I had a patient who was actively dying after a CABG, a coronary artery bypass procedure that had gone bad. He was dying in the ICU. The day before he died, they shoved a swab in his nose and they tested him for COVID with one of those rare test kits. And I was so upset that they didn't get their own

employee. I went to the doctor's lounge the next day and I see, of all things, the chief medical officer, the chief executive officer, and a new guy named the chief financial officer who just arrived on the scene. I asked the CMO and CEO who I knew, I said, what's going on here that I couldn't get a test for my patient who's an employee here, but you're swabbing the nose of a guy who doesn't have COVID symptoms and he's actively dying. I said, it seems to me like there must be some sort of incentive. And I've heard on the street that there's a financial incentive that maybe you guys get paid a little extra for COVID diagnoses in your patients. Employee not, right? And the CMO turns to me and the CEO said, no, we haven't heard about that.

And then the CFO, who's new, really went behind his. He says, oh, yeah, no, we are. We're getting paid for that. And he's no longer working for that. Yeah, he said the quiet... Yeah. I mean, right, and this is the kind of corruption that people need to understand. It's wrong. It's wrong.

And by the way, this was US taxpayer dollars that were funneled to them. So now we've had some states, my home state of Colorado, retrenched and redid their COVID numbers and decreased their COVID numbers and their COVID deaths by something like 40%. But those hospitals don't give that money back. Those hospitals don't return the money to the coffers of the US taxpayer. This entire thing, truly, so much of it was driven by corruption and immorality. Let's talk about that for a minute. The clock's winding down, but you are a person of great faith, as am I. I'll tell you, if it weren't for that, there are periods of this pandemic that I would not have gotten through. I counted myself not only on my faith, but on people like you and McCullough and Rish and Corey, people who there was great camaraderie and fellowship in that. Talk a little bit about

your experience as a doctor and as a person of faith, how this has impacted you. Wow. That needs a whole segment. I definitely have, when I was a kid, I was going to need to be a doctor or a priest and actually spent a year in a Catholic seminary. And let me give you one faith story. Okay. I had a patient when that nurse got sick, one of the other guys in the group was very sick. He's not my patient, ended up on a ventilator in the hospital. We had a priest right next door to my office here from Poland. And I saw him one day just walking. We weren't having mass that day. We weren't having anything. The churches were shut down. And he said to me, Dr. Littell, it feels like I'm back in Poland. I can't even be a priest. I feel like I'm back in under communism.

I said, Father Z, would you like to go see Tim, who's in the hospital? I snuck him in. He put on all his personal protective equipment, PPE. He walked in, he anointed Tim. Tim was the first person to get off a ventilator. And to this day, he's going to daily mass. I know the power of healing through faith and through interpersonal relationships and giving people hope. And when the hospitals deny that to our patients, they were criminal. They were so uncaring. And by the way, please, so many wonderful nurses and doctors and respiratory therapists out there. I'm not talking about them personally. I'm talking about the structure of the hospitals allowing this to take place.

I don't know who to blame anymore. But somebody should be taken attached for what they did to these patients. Earlier we were talking about how we weren't allowed to talk about anything until very, very recently. What happened very recently includes that board meeting you were at last week. What was the conversation there? Were you received in any way respectfully? Did you were you having an argument when you gave up and present your did you have a chance even to really present your data? No, no, I had to zip through. I mean, by the time I finished telling the hospital in my

three minutes that I thought that they were doing a great job with their HCAP scores and their cert satisfaction and that they could be the best if they would just, and then he said, you got one minute left. I didn't know how that happened. And I was going to share these cases. So at the very end, I just said, if you want to be the best, you need to be the first to admit that you did wrong. And then you need to have this conversation. And I sat down. It was not, I mean, I got a huge ovation from the group. We had to turn away. They turned away people that were supporting our side. Their side was packed, the auditorium. They were told to come an hour before the meeting and pack the auditorium. So there were 400 seats. We were lucky if we got 60 seats in the auditorium and that would mean

our side. So it was really hard that we got, I got a reaction, but again, it was when I got up and left and I just turned to everyone. I said, I have this white coat on. And that's what you hear me saying. I'm not hospital employed. I'm not an exclusively contracted with the hospital. I'm here to be a voice for the voiceless. And that's when I left the place that's it no and it you know you and I whether you are a person who relies on a structured faith or the Bible or you're somebody who simply understands the the human circumstance we have you got to know as a physician that hope that hope whether

it's based in faith or simply that hopefulness, a positive attitude, greatly impacts outcomes. You can't deny it. If you've ever treated a patient, you know that when patients give up, when they lose their will to live, when they lose their hope, when they think there is no outcome, when they are isolated. That does not pretend well for good outcomes. I can tell you as myself, as a physician, I was admitted, I was in the hospital for longer than I'd like to think during the COVID pandemic, having nothing to do with COVID. I had an orthopedic issue and required multiple surgeries. And I spent that time alone, day in and day out in a room where only a nurse would peek in, you know,

to give you or change an IV bag with a mask on. No family was allowed in. No, you saw no one. It was the most, it was horrible. And I'm a physician who understands the system. I wasn't dying. I just had an inconvenient orthopedic problem. And I know how hopeless it made me feel. It was depressing. I cannot imagine being an elderly person or a child or somebody with a life-threatening illness and being left in that situation. I think we killed people by that alone. The hardest job I had during COVID was people calling me saying, you're not my doctor.

Would you please just go see my husband, my wife, my dad, my mom, my child, 18 year old, 13 year old that were in their end COVID units and could not see anybody. And all I did is go in and hopefully give them hope. I said, I'm here for you. I'm going to review your chart. In some cases it was too late, but, but, but they were reassured by the fact that someone went and visited them that at least had some insight into the spiritual dimension of health care and the need for relationships to to be present I want to shine a bit of a light on what you both are saying which is that you are not saying strictly speaking faith-based therapeutics are what you're advocating. You were saying that there's something about humanity and caretaking and generating hope and touch and all the things that we know how to

do as caretakers that has been largely, I didn't expect us to get into this conversation, but I've been feeling really across my entire career that that has been largely expunged from medicine. It is certainly from physicians. It's been handed over to nursing and chiropractors and other people who use it as their primary technique, and we are left not having the opportunity to use this thing that is perhaps more important than anything else, and again, on a spiritual plane, on a meaning-making plane, that the ability to bear witness to another human's suffering and to connect and attune and be present and pull them through.

We use the language of pull them through. That's literally what sometimes happens with that human connectedness. And you may also wish to interpret it in other, as you said, Kelly, in other more classical sort of formally religious sort of structures. But all of this has been, look, what is the most rigorous punishment you can give a human being? Isolation. You go into the hole when you're going to get the worst punishment, and it makes people crazy, and it makes them sick. And if they were sick to begin with, they get really sick. And no thought was given to any of that, nor, and on a larger scale,

that's just the hospital version of it. We did it on a national scale with the lockdowns. We literally did it to ourselves on that level of scale, on the advice of the Chinese Communist Party. The insanity of this goes, it just rolls on and on and on. Dr. Littell, we are sort of running out of time here. We really appreciate you coming and sharing with us. Kelly, maybe you have some closing words as well. No, just I would like to ask you, Dr. Littell, your closing words. You are a man of great, as I said, of faith, tremendous experience in medicine. Your thoughtfulness during this pandemic has been greatly appreciated.

You've always been measured. How do you see us moving forward as a profession, as a country, moving forward from this? Well, people will begin to trust their physicians and their hospitals again, when we restore humanity to the profession of medicine. And like I would do in each room, the first thing I did is I'd take the mask down and let them see my face and I'd grab their hand and just hold their hand. And there's something very special about being a doctor. And I just hope that every doctor out there, every nurse, every hospital administrator starts to get in touch with why they got into this profession, this noble profession, as it once was called to begin with. And I thank you guys for

being my colleagues in this fight. Thank you very much. Thank you for being here. Thank you, sir. We really appreciate it. We'll talk soon. You got it. God bless you. Thank you. Good afternoon. That is Dr. John Littell, johnlittellmd.com. And Kelly, I wrapped it up because we promised we would take a couple calls.

There have been several people sitting on hold for quite some time, so I want to get to them. Susan, you seem to want to talk. No, I'm just, that was touching. I'm not surprised that's who he is. He's unbelievable. And I, as again, as you said, Drew, I'm not trying to suggest, and I certainly don't think Dr. Littell is, that faith heals all things. We are hardcore Western physicians. But without that component component you can throw all the the antibiotics and antivirals and fluids and steroids you wanted something if people lose hope if you force people to a point of desperation um they will not do well uh and there's a reason why

you know we have used used things like guided imagery when we are treating people for cancers and those sorts of things. Because that sense of hopefulness is very important. And humanity has been lost in medicine. At very minimum, it ameliorates suffering, which is valuable. Adding to suffering, immeasurably adding predictably to suffering is unconscionable and no thought was given to any of that all right let me get some speakers up here we're at the and the twitter spaces we're gonna take a couple calls um this is uh deborah to begin with hi i guess hi dr drew i just want to say thank you for having me. And Kelly Victory, I actually followed her

in the very beginning of this pandemic. And then I believe she was silenced and I was as well. I have some irony. My husband, yes, I remember. And you were being silenced and I thought, well, she has, then she's telling the truth. So last October, my husband, he woke up one day and he said, my leg is, he was in so much pain. I've never seen him in this much pain before. Anyways, long story short, he goes to the hospital and they say he has a blood clot and he needs to go have it removed surgically. And okay, I say goodbye to him. Love you. I'll be waiting. Next thing I know, I'm allowed to see him in ICU. He's ventilated, intubated. And he had emergency thrombectomy.

And they believe a heart attack is what caused it a few days before. But we just didn't know. So he's in ICU for four weeks. And I thought maybe he was fighting COVID at that time as well. Because a lot of mucus was coming out, coughing, fighting the ventilator. Oh, no, we don't even test for that. I thought that was odd. So I rubbed him down with ivermectin paste while he was in there.

I don't know if it made a difference or not. Then we have another four weeks at a different hospital in recovery. Oh, actually, I'm sorry, back up. I told him this intubation is very uncomfortable for him. I want a tracheotomy. So we had that placed along with the feeding tube and dialysis. He was in kidney failure and heart failure. So we do another four weeks in a different hospital for recovery.

While we're there, I'm noticing people on the floor obviously have COVID because staff is covering up in PPE to enter their rooms. So I'm thinking it's just a matter of time before my husband is going to be tested positive for this. Plus he's coughing mucus through his trachea. And I feel it. We're back here again with this COVID or whatever. And so I watch these nurses very carefully.

They come in the room. They crush the pills. They put it in a large syringe with water, and they inject it into his feeding tube. So I refused remdesivir after I found out that was one of their main treatments, which floored me. And I injected it into him twice a day for five days. Nobody knew this. And you injected him out. Deborah, you injected what?

I injected him with hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, vitamin D, quercetin, vitamin C. Please don't do this. Don't do that. He was a kid. He was an intubated patient in renal failure that could have killed him very easily. I'm glad he got better. Well, yeah, I know. And I understand, but I was desperate and they wanted to give him remdesivir. And I, I said, no, and he actually

recovered and we got him out. We did go, um, against their advice early on he wanted out i he was losing his mind um yeah it was a it was so what let's just so what happened when he had a heart attack it causes a part of the blood clot part of the muscle gets dies and that the sometimes that causes a clot formation inside the ventricles against the wall of the heart. Then that clot gets thrown. Thank God it did not go to his head. It went to his leg. That's an embolic event that would have killed his leg.

His leg was dying. That's why he was in all that pain. And they went and pulled out the clot. But this is a very complicated and dangerous situation. I'm imagining he may have also showered some other parts of his body with clot, including his kidneys. So he may have had what's called atherombolic renal failure. So a really complicated situation. COVID on top of that is no bueno, that's for sure. That is for sure.

I'm glad he's well, but that is a hair-raising story and not one that we can really say much except thank God he's well. I'm sort of glad they didn't test him for COVID because that allowed you to stay in the room with him. Otherwise, they would have isolated him and there would have been nobody there advocating for him. You know, they let the family members in even though the other family members had COVID on the rooms. And when we left, they were still on ventilators and they were treating with remdesivir. And I saw about four bodies leave. Yeah. Yeah.

So it was a desperate situation. I'm thrilled that he didn't get remdesivir, that drug. If he didn't have kidney failure before, it causes it. And it's a drug that I saw no good outcomes with remdesivir. So I'm happy for you and for him that he managed to avoid that. Thank you, Debra. Let's get Meredith. Wow. That's a wild story. I wonder if I would do that for you, Drew. But you got to understand something... Kelly wouldn't let me. In my world, that kind of a case is rather routine. So the reason that he was having all those fluids from his lungs is because when you intubate patients like that, they get pneumonias. The longer they stay in the ICU, the worse the pneumonias get. Tracheostomy was probably

reasonable for a guy that wasn't weaning from the ventilator. I mean, these are very complicated, multi-system situations. The only thing that really prevented catastrophe is it doesn't sound like he ever actually became septic, which was right around the corner. And thankfully he did not. Meredith, you can unmute yourself there. And also, if I can point out, that's just a terrifying combination of desperation and

then a complete lack of trust in all of the medical professionals that were around. That she would just go and inject these things out of desperation. And that's terrifying to get to that space there that she's not even trusting anyone around. Wow. No, no. And that's, that's really a, you know, a insightful comment, Caleb, because I think that that's really where we are. People don't trust their doctors anymore. And so when you talk about people developing vaccine hesitancy across the board because of this or developing just hesitancy and fearfulness and distrust of the entire system. I've warned about this from the beginning that God help us when we raise the alarm flag the next time, because there will be a next time, a next big public health event. And we have lost the trust of the public. And that's a very dangerous position to be in.

It's true. Very true. Meredith, you can unmute your mic down in the lower left-hand corner and let's see what's up. Actually, I think I accidentally raised my hand. Okay. All right. Thank you. Great space. And as always, thank you. Thank you for popping up. We appreciate it. We like saying hi to people. It's all good. This is Winston, I think. Winston.

Winston. Okay. We like Winston. I know Winston knows how to do this. Hey, what's happening guys? We're having a good time. What's up with you? Oh, you know, same soup, just reheated.

Did have a kind of a question that's been kicking around in my head, and I wanted to get your guys' thoughts on it. You know, so we now know that, okay, they actually did wildly over-count the deaths of COVID versus with COVID type of thing. And as I sit here, we're three years in and I'm like, I still know so many people that are completely radicalized by this and won't ever change their mind on it. And I'm thinking how many of those people might have had a family member or, you know, friend, acquaintance, anything that was falsely had their death attributed to COVID.

And is there anything that can be done for bringing those people back? And in cases where they have over, or they died with COVID versus of COVID, do you guys know, is there any, are they reaching out to families? I can't imagine they are, but they're like, Hey. And if you remember, I was, I was defended the hospitals for doing that because that was a convention that was put in place so the hospitals could stay open, given that they were closed to everything except COVID. They weren't allowing anybody else in at that point early in the pandemic. And then they kept the thing in place. And I think it's probably in place to this moment. I don't know.

But that has been distorting the data quite a bit all the way along. Yeah. Great, Kelly. but that that is distorted been destroying the data quite a bit all the way along yeah great Kelly I was gonna say I unfortunately Winston I don't think that they are ever going to complain about it uh the hospitals and physicians have a vested interest in it and uh it it was important to keep up the fear factor because otherwise they wouldn't have been able to get people to keep doing the ridiculous things they were doing and to tolerate this. So unfortunately, yet the numbers are grossly distorted. We will never really get an accurate count of how many people truly had COVID and how many people died from COVID, how many people were hospitalized with COVID. We'll never really get those numbers. And Kelly, I think I just can't help but think that everybody that's still

radicalized at this point. And it's like, I'm trying to, you know, steal me on their side of it a little bit and have some empathy. Like, I can't imagine what that must be like mentally. Like you would truly think that it took your parent or what? Right. No, listen, I, I, I, I frequently find myself saying, look what we did to people. Look what we did to them. Oh, we shattered their minds. Right. Oh, my God.

But speaking of which, I believe in Los Angeles, good news, everybody. I think our emergency, our medical, what do they call the emergency status we've all been in, in the county and the state? It's been extended for a month. It was supposed to end today. Decided to extend it a month. Oh, it's clearly a vitally necessary move great judgment on their part and i think the state has gone on too no i said i am

not a gambler i said but i want early on i said i want to know what the over under is on extending this thing because i just they say they're gonna this is charlie brown and the foot you know lucy and the football she's gonna pull it away they're gonna say that it's over, this is Charlie Brown, Lucy and the football. She's going to pull it away. They're going to say that it's over at this date. And then in the 11th and a half hour, they're going to say, no, we need one more month. They need one more month. They will extend these additional authorities is all they're doing. They're extending additional authorities that they have by extending this,

quote, emergency situation one month longer. And the federal level, Biden announced, you know, the emergency ends May 11th. You know, as I said, the words arbitrary and capricious come to mind. You know, May 11th, you know. Yeah, headline. After Easter. Easter's coming. Arbit coming arbitrary and capricious i'm looking at a headline from uh one day ago la county to lift code emergency

uh california ends tuesday la county will extend to march 31st because la county is so so so special i want everybody to remember this next time you take your shoes off to board an airplane. It's for your sake. Right. Exactly. It's theater. This is theater. I thought I saw that California had even just been extended, too.

Did I get that wrong? Whatever it is, it's all, as you say, arbitrary and capricious and harmful. That's the part that is problematic. One thing, it has no effect whatsoever.ricious and harmful. That's the part that is problematic. One thing if it's just, you know, it has no effect whatsoever. But it's harmful, and they need to stop. They should have stopped a long time ago, but, you know, here we are. Right. You know, what I was thinking about the other day, when you talk about, you know. I appreciate everybody up there.

Thanks, Winston. Thanks, Winston. You know, when you talk about things that, you know, somebody would say, okay, well, there's nothing harmful about putting plexiglass up. If it didn't work, it didn't work, but there's nothing harmful about a grocery store or a hardware store putting plexiglass store. And you're living on a thin margin as it is. And now you've got to spend tens of thousands of dollars removing every other cashier and putting up plexiglass shields and buying stickers, one-way stickers for the floor of the aisle and only being, you know, allowing five people in your store at once. I stood outside in a line to get into the Ace Hardware because for months it was, you can only allow 10 people in the store at once. Those things are harmful.

We absolutely drove half of the small businesses in this country out of business permanently. 50% of all businesses that closed never reopened. Okay. So if you think that wearing masks or putting up plexiglass or limitations on capacity weren't just an inconvenience, you're wrong. We ruined people's lives and livelihoods and decimated the economy all so that we could feel some level of security or safety that we were flattening a curve and we didn't do a damn thing. This is Janice. I'm going to give her a chance to come on up here. Yeah. Again, if these things had been clearly effective or even modestly effective,

of course I would have been in favor of it, but they were, it was as clearly so obviously. All right, Jess, what's going on? Hey, I've got some contributions to Dr. Kelly's unfuck it bucket. Okay. All right. I'm ready. Yes. Well, the first thing we got to do is get all those emails of Fauci's, get those unredacted transcripts for all those conferences, virtual and in person and all that. That's the first thing we got got to do, and I know it cronies for all the lies they've told and explained themselves why they did it with something that's

believable. And then third, he needs to be oh yeah, we uh the engineering details extracted from him by any means necessary about the virus what they did yes he knows what happened and then he needs punished well well first of all i i appreciate i i love your your passion for this janice and i agree with you and with all due respect however those, those items all fit into Kelly's bucket number two. Those fall into the accountability bucket. And that's an important bucket for us to address because there is no healing in this country or moving forward without accountability and without contrition, without apology and ownership of people's participation in this. So I agree with

you wholeheartedly. When I was talking about the loosely called the unfuck it bucket, which I think is critical, it's really about coming up with scientific ways to help those people who have been harmed. Not that the accountability isn't important because it is but my my call to arms um with regard to helping people how do we call all of those bright scientific minds the same people who perhaps are mrna specialists and knew how to create this thing um interestingly drew you might find that i just read an article the other day about how to possibly help to mitigate the damage done by the spike proteins. There are some vulnerabilities, I'll call them, on the spike protein, some cleavage

sites that appear to be amenable to cleavage from certain enzymes. And I read an article out of Japan where they're using an enzyme that comes from a worm that actually seems to attack the spike protein and break it, fragment it into multiple pieces that would perhaps be less harmful. So when I have talked about the unfuck it bucket, it's saying, look, I'm not an mRNA expert. I'm not a spike protein expert, but these are the things I think we should be focusing on as a scientific community. Could you be infusing an enzyme that helps to rid people who have these globs of spike protein stuck in their heart muscle or stuck in their kidney or

whatever and break them up? And as much as I love the accountability and no one would like Anthony Fauci to be held accountable more than I, we have a mandate, I believe, to do the things that we need to do as a scientific and medical community to help those people who have been harmed. And I am perfectly prepared to hear mistakes, incompetence, explanations. I'm wide open. I want to learn because I've been confused. Right. And they should also air it on CNN.

And we had heard, we also had heard from some sources that intermittent fasting, natokinase has had some effect. And again, as always, I refer you to covidlonghaulers.com if people feel that they're having some of this long haul stuff. They've got various protocols going there that they've had some real results with. So there are people out there. Maybe we should get Dr. Gendry in here for the Un-Fuck-It segment. He can talk about some of the things they are doing over there at COVID Long Hauler. But we have well exceeded our time together. Thank you for staying for questions, Kelly.

Appreciate you being here today as always. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And I appreciate you tolerating my delving into the spiritual or the… I love that stuff holistic component of it. I love that stuff. I love, I think, listen, you don't, you and I have not shared these parts of our lives so much,

but one of my main areas of concern or, what shall I call it? And I don't know what to call it, because it's not, I've supported this field of interpersonal neurobiology. That what is it that the human system does to other human systems, and how does that work in a clinical setting,

and does it work with mommy and child, and how does it create regulation, and worth, and sense of self, and all these things. That's what I spend a lot of my time doing before the current mess so yeah but i like to see that the doctors are doing that with each other like the three of you have great minds and you're you're doing the same thing with one another that's true well that's what kelly said when she was by herself it was the fellowship of her peers that that helped pull her through

for sure exactly and some and i also think that that the that the patient community the people people i don't i think don't understand how profoundly this impacts truly caring physicians it has been something that's been very difficult to watch you know i i saw dr corey you know fall apart and you're in a testimony in front of congress just saying you know i'm tired i can't do this anymore i can't watch this happen. Dr. Richard Urso, who we've had on, these are brilliant scientific minds, but what makes you a great physician isn't just that. You have to have a good scientific mind, which if you lack the humanity part and you don't have the compassion and understand the human condition

from that perspective, you're sort of a robot. We have algorithms that can practice that kind of medicine. Yeah. It was a little bit of a technical term, but the core of Heidegger's philosophy was care. Care. Yeah. And I've always thought that that should stand at the head of the class. So here we are. So what's coming up, Caleb? Let's put that up there on the screen, if you don't mind. We have Brian O'Shea, who's an intelligence analyst tomorrow with Dr. Lei-Meng Yan, who's a scientist, virologist, physician who worked with the coronavirus background and backbone in Hong Kong. And we're going to put an intelligence expert together with a virologist from who worked with the Chinese Communist Party and see how that all what we can learn. March 8th, Dr. Meryl Nass. Kelly? Yes, Dr. Meryl Nass is a physician who absolutely was raked over the

coals by her medical board for daring to prescribe ivermectin. She was remanded to psychiatric care and had her license suspended. Horrific experience. And she really has a good story to tell about that and her experience treating COVID patients. And then the next week, the 15th, we have Dr. William Mackes, who is a Canadian oncologist with really great experience. And he's going to talk about what he's seeing with regard to the vaccines and his thoughts about increases in cancers. And then I just, before the show, spoke to my friend Bobby Kennedy, who's going to, we aren't sure which date, but the last week of the month, we're hoping that Bobby Kennedy is going to be back to give us kind of an update on where things are. As everyone knows, he's been a real warrior in this pandemic as well yes uh remanded to psychiatric care really is

right out of the mal playbook and the culture about that it's just uncanny yeah uncanny yep all right so we will i want to talk to kennedy about aliens too i saw him on the news talking about that that um that meeting they had and they were talking about the aliens flying over the boy all right maybe you and kelly could do that one together all right well maybe just susan and ben kennedy all right guys yeah i'm not sure i'm not sure aliens are in my bailiwick. But I hope they're alien medical doctors. I said, well, maybe they're coming down to get the vaccine. Oh, my God. Tomorrow, three o'clock for the Dr. Lee Mangyan and the intelligence officer. And then next Wednesday with Kelly. We'll see you all then.

Sounds good. Thanks. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information

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