Ask Dr. Drew - Hayden Panettiere’s Sudden Death: Celebrity Rehab Team On Her Opioid Addiction & The Narcan Found In Home – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 656

Episode Date: August 19, 2026

Hayden Panettiere died suddenly in Greenville, South Carolina at 36. TMZ reports that Narcan, the nasal spray used to reverse an opioid overdose, was found in the apartment. Dr. Drew is joined by his Celebrity Rehab costars – addiction counselor Bob Forrest and certified chemical dependency counselor Shelly Sprague-Foster – to discuss Hayden’s opioid addiction, postpartum depression, and what we know about her tragic and sudden death. Panettiere told People in 2022 that she had been in a cycle of self-destruction, and wrote in her memoir that a doctor warned she would be dead within 5 years if she did not stop drinking. She said she was given pills as a teenager before red carpet appearances, developed an opioid dependency after being prescribed painkillers for an injury, and experienced withdrawal severe enough to send her to a liver specialist. Page Six reports, through a friend, that she had severe back problems in the months before her death. NBC News reports her ex-boyfriend was at the scene when she died. Also on today’s show: Dr. James Thorp, a maternal fetal medicine specialist with more than 40 years in practice who was fired by SSM Health after speaking out about COVID-19 vaccines in pregnancy. He says federal officials and the New England Journal of Medicine knew about adverse pregnancy outcomes in early 2021 and hid them. Bob Forrest is a musician, author, and addiction counselor. He served as a counselor on VH1’s Celebrity Rehab, works with DNA4Addiction, and authored Running with Monsters: A Memoir. Follow at https://x.com/bobforrestmusic Shelly Sprague-Foster is a Certified Chemical Dependency Counselor–Certified Addiction Specialist who has worked with individuals affected by substance use disorders since 1997. She co-founded Hollywood Recovery Services with Bob Forrest and now directs We Care Outpatient. Find more at https://wecareinla.com Dr. James Thorp is an obstetrician-gynecologist and maternal fetal medicine specialist who served in the SSM Health System in Saint Louis, Missouri. He earned his medical degree from Wayne State University School of Medicine and has practiced for more than 40 years. Follow at https://x.com/jathorpmfm 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 • BIOPRO - BioPro+® is a natural formula of growth factors and peptides that support how you look, feel & perform. Learn more at ⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/biopro⁠⁠ • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. 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All right, we've got my friends and professional colleagues. Bob Forrest and Shelley Sprague. You know them from back in the days in suburb rehab. They're both accomplished addiction professionals. There's a lot of addiction stories in the news today. We're going to get to those, including the poor, the tragic story of Hayden Panetteir. Narcan at the bedside when she was found on the scene overdosed. I'm worried about my peers having giving her not just the opiates that she overdosed on,

but the benzodiazepines that often follow, and that is the fatal combination. She's been outspoken about her addictions and struggles over the years. Police have not found any foul play. All right. As I said, Bob is a musician, addiction counselor, author of Running with Monsters. Find him on X at Bobforestmusic.com. That's with two R's. Shelly has worked in addiction since 1997.

Both are long-term recovering people. They've worked with me for many, many years, and they continue to work in the field as well. Shelly is at We Care Outpatient in Los Angeles. And then once I'm done talking to my friends, I got Dr. James Thorpe, another friend of mine, paternal fetal medicine specialist, high-risk obstetrical professional, of which there are only a few in this country. And he has been ringing the alarm about vaccine and premature, what are called, spontaneous abortions. And now the evidence suggests that there was reason to be alarmed about that. He has more than 40 years in practice.

And he specifically wants to talk about a New England journal article about adverse. pregnancy outcomes from the vaccines. Bob Forrest up next. Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopaths start this right. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous.

I'm a doctor for, I say, where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Love Line all the time. educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. You have trouble. You can't stop and you want to help stop it.

I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. DNA for addiction is an organization that Bob Workpiz. You can find Bob ForrestMusk.com and also on Xboboros Music. His book is running with monsters. The documentary is Bob and the Monster. Let's see.

You know him from many sources. Follow him on X. I think that's the best place. I think. Oh, you don't have X? Bob, where should people follow you? I don't know. I have that Instagram.

Bob Forrest is a dad on Instagram. That's my thing. Bob Forrest is a God. It's a dad. That's all I am, really. Yeah, and that's why one of the, thank God our internet crashed and you were late. So we all got here at the same moment. So welcome.

So one of the stories that's in the news is this, well, let me ask you this first of all. did you have any kind of reaction to Dr. Fauci and some of his behavior, you know, as his sort of inflation, self-importance as he became famous during the dark days of COVID? I'm just wondering how you reacted to that. You could tell like he loved it, right? He loved those too many press conferences. We don't need, we need a cure. We need, you know.

We need him doing his job, all these press conferences. And I remember that one press conference when Trump was there and that woman, the woman, CDC woman was there. And Trump said that use, what was it, bleach to bleach people. And he was just joking, I think. And then Pouchy, you know, jumped all over that. He was just too much in the media, not enough taking care of business. To clarify that one, that was kind of interesting me, because I had read the article that morning that Cedars was doing work with disinfecting light, disinfectants.

He didn't say bleach. The press said bleach. He said, Disinfectant. He said, maybe we'll find a way to disinfect your lungs. And Cedars was doing it. They were doing it with light disinfectants.

And the article had come out that morning. And I happened to have read it. And it looked really good. And I thought, oh, this is hopeful. And when he brought it up, I thought, oh, God, it's already, they already know about it. This could be good. And because of everything going from one side of the boat to the other,

they abandoned their efforts. Maybe that was something that would have worked. It's crazy. But in any event, what I saw was maybe the same thing that killed Hayden Patton Terry, which is doctors get too excited when they're taking care of celebrities or when they become celebrities. They get so inflated by it. So tell me your take on what might have happened to poor Hayden. Well, I mean, she's part of this whole brigade where she's 36.

That's the typical age of people living on the streets now. and the, you know, we have the DNA for Addiction Lab, and people are not even testing positive for fentanyl who think they're on fentanyl. There are just wild street jugs out there that's, it's the Wild West. We're having people not go into opioid withdrawals. And then, but they're so anxious, you know, they think they're an opioid withdrawal. And I think she was a part of this new world out on the street with, with trink and fentanyl mimicked drugs and diazepam and math that isn't really math and

you know so your hypothesis so she didn't get it from the old fashion way from the medical system she got it from the street you think yeah and and i'm sure she started on the medical side but that's not what she was doing that's not how you die in a motel room you know 2,000 miles from home is she from there, North Carolina or wherever she was. I don't know. I don't know. I have no idea. Caleb, maybe you can help us with that.

She had gone in and out of treatment. There was that whole brigade of Disney kids. I mean, none of them have fared well. Our parents still want their kids to be Disney stars. You know what I'm saying? Well, you know, one of the things, yeah, one of the things about these childhood actors that I have discovered talking to some of them, particularly ones that get addiction later, is they,

they often come from broken families, and the family in these projects, like at Disney four seasons where some dude is playing your dad, they become very attached to these people, and then the series ends, and everyone scatters to the wind, and they're abandoned again. And many of them talk about being traumatized by that.

Plus, they're sent into an adult world. They're required to do adult, you know, worry about adult behaviors and worry about the functioning of the adults all around them, which is already traumatizing it itself. And then if they have the gene for addiction, then it's on, unfortunately. This is very, very sad to me. Why do you think, let's talk about failures of treatment, which are unfortunately more common that we'd like to imagine. What do you is your take on the current state of that?

Well, I mean, addiction treatment hasn't really modified anything in 50, 60, 70 years. and I think these addicts are just a hybrid of neuroses and anxiety and depression and things we don't even know about things. They can't even verbalize. They want to die, but they're too lazy to kill themselves. It's just a mess of mental health, addiction, modern addiction. And I don't think a lot of the treatment, the Betty Ford model or Minnesota model is really geared for how profound the problem has. become, right? Right. I agree with you. And how long it's run out of control, right? So we don't even know the full impact on the brain because no one ever really dries out long enough to see how their

brain's doing. And there's a term that Kelly and I knew from AA called terminal, terminal uniqueness, right? And that's right. That's right. That was rare in, you know, like, you know, Jim Morrison is terminally unique, right? It was a rare breed of person. Now it's every 36 year old on the planet earth. You understand what I'm saying? That narcissism, that terminal uniqueness is now a baseline standard. Why do you think that is? Why?

The cultures become more narcissistic. I mean, the kids are told they're so important. There's a new study about the safety obsession of parents, safety. How are kids supposed to know what's unsafe if you never allow them to fall on the ground and skin their knee or, you know, have to judge whether it's too high to jump off of. Parents, you know, if you look at the average playground in the 50s, 60s to nowadays, there's no way you could hurt yourselves. And children have to learn how to like measure risk. And so then they get to be 22. They're a husbands and show business. They have no ability to

measure risk. They start hanging around with people that tell them they're still great. You know, that's something that the whole Disney crowd, I think we've treated some of them, like Laif Garrett and some of these child actor kids, none of them fare well. And why that is, their generation in general doesn't fare well. And then they have terminal uniqueness. And so what do we do with that baseline narcissism? Well, I try to talk about it. I have it myself. I try to, I try to, use it in the therapeutic process. But if people don't, but if people, why?

Everybody's got a little bit. But I think your point is well taken. No, but listen, I think it's important to point out that the narcissistic turn has affected all of us. But some are terminal, right? Some

really, it's a problem. And so I think that's what you're talking about. So keep going. Yeah, that. So I try to just talk about like, why do you think you're the center of the universe? Who told you that? You know, there's, there's 8 billion people on this planet. Why are you so important? These kind of like, you know, kind of spiritual, psychological conversations that treatment was for me, right? Buddy Arnold was a great counselor of mine. He'd say, you know, you might be good at what you do,

but you're not good at life or something along those lines, right? So to get to the why you're treating me special, why I'm in the musicians rehab, wing of Exodus with all the other important musicians. There was an acknowledgement of that, and then let's get down to what's really important. You don't even know how to fucking fill...

Oh, sorry. You don't even know how to put gas in your car. Like, yeah, you may know how to write a song. You know, I'm reflecting on the fact that, you know, when we were running a program together, patients would always say they felt like a piece of shit around which the whole world revolved. Yeah. Now they just feel like there's someone,

someone around whom the whole world revolved. Right. They really believe it. And this girl believes it. And we're talking about her after she died. I mean, the whole world is just eats, it eats gossip. It eats information. It devours it every day. The machine needs more and more of it. Next week it'll be another tragic story or another shooting or another terrible, horrible thing. And I've just tried to disconnect from all of it. There's some websites that say good news.

You know, they can correct your, apparently they can correct your eyesight with drops now. Have you heard about this, true? You're not going to hear about it. We keep talking about all the Disney kids that are on drugs. You know what I mean? Talk about that drop. Right? Positive. It's good. It's a, there's a lot of positives. So look, we've never, we've literally never been healthier. never lived longer, never had less disease. Less crime. It's, well, I'm about that right now, but but less violence, totally. Less violence.

Well, we're not documenting it anymore, but there is less violence, I'm sure. And the, the, I think it's our relationships that are screwed up. And I think that's where the emotional vacuum is coming from. And all the internet stuff is feeding, fueling that. Right. And we're in, like, why is it the thing that I, it's just tragic. Like I, you know, I kind of heard about this girl a year, a year and a half done. And I was like, oh, I know that world, like she's in that world.

This is a world. What's interesting is there's levels to this world of Trank and fentanyl and meth. There's the, what we obviously see on the street, which are homeless people sitting in front of stores and pushing shopping cards. But there's other levels of it where people are living in the, cars, they're living in hotels. They're like, it's a forgotten, there's a whole forgotten world out there from these drugs that have hit the streets. It really does, I've noticed in my clients, it makes their brains almost like it's been

erased with an eraser on a blackboard. Yeah, I know. And it's awesome. That's right. That's interesting. What are some of the drugs that you're, they're long names. Like, you know, it's trank. What is trank, Drew?

Tranclizer, some sort of animal tranquilize. I think it's like a phenothiasein kind of drug, old-fashioned. What is that? That's why all the movement problems. Why would people be wanting to take that? I know, I don't get it. They usually mix it with opiates and things. It's an animal tranquilizer.

Here Susan's talking to her phone. What's that, Caleb? It's an animal tranquilizer. I think it's xylazine. Yeah, but that's not. that doesn't really that doesn't describe what it is anything with zine is a major tranquilizer so it's a it's a phenothia zine yeah but but but then we had matthew perry we have the ketamine and the story about where he was getting that from was mind-blowing to me so so let's just talk i got a what's wrong with

my mic what's wrong with my mic we have to i have to we've got you know you and shall i'll make Shelly in a just second here. Yeah, she's got a lot. She knows this world. She was working, she was working downtown with these people. She knows. It's true. It's like invasion of the body snatchers.

It's like something you've never experienced before. Okay, so Shelley's Briggs certified chemical dependency counselor, addiction specialist. We're, by the way, he's all bobbing me forever. She found co-fied Hollywood Recovery Services. And the current program is WeCare Outpatient working with Neurosolution partners as a TMS technician. That's interesting. WeCareInLA.com is where you can find Shelley's program.

Hi, Shelly. Hey, guys. Good to be here. Did I get that right? We care in L.A. Is that correct? Yes, we care in L.A. And you're doing TMS.

That's fantastic. I am. I am doing TMS. Transcranial magnetic stimulation is something that works for major depressive disorder and I have seen great results from it. I literally have seen people go from from so depressed catatonic in bed can't get out, can't get out of their depression and after 30 days, 35 days, they're functioning at a much better level. I have seen it so successful. I really, really, really think that this is something we should be. I agree. It's non-chemical, which is great.

And it does the same thing as ECT, electric shock therapy, without all the drama of seizure and shock and all the side effects. Yeah, no seizure. But I've got a psychiatrist in New York that's doing high dose, intense frequency, like high intensity, TMS. He's having amazing results. But listen, I want to take a break. Yeah, I want to take a break.

When we get back, I want you to comment on what Bob was just talking about. Sort of what is the state of, really, we're talking about treatment failures. What do we do with keeping people in treatment long enough to get well, essentially? That's kind of how I look at it. But we'll hear Shelley's point of view and Bob's in just a second. And we'll be right back later on, James Thorpe. Stay tuned. So as we age, most men notice that they're not getting the same workout results.

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Shelly is spraying Foster. You can follow her at WeCare, LA.com, where she is working in treatment. Shelley, give us your thoughts about the state of treatment and why people, first of all, why people don't seem to understand this is a progressive illness. That gets left out of every conversation. It progresses and ends in death. That's where it goes. Or hospitalization or in, you know, jails. That's where, though we don't hospitalized and we don't put people in jails anymore. So they die. So why the failures? What would you say? I think that people don't have the staying power to deal with the long-term nature of what is required to really recover. Number one, it does not take 30 days.

And because now, the drugs that are out there now, you know, they require a lot more inpatient treatment that's not available, readily available. That's right. And people don't want to take the time or the money to go into treatment for long term. People have to go in for 90 days. They have to be in contained environments that are therapeutic. And they don't want to do that. And especially people who have resources, they think that they can take shortcuts because they're special. And like what Bob was talking about earlier in that terminal uniqueness, this is addiction feeds off of uniqueness.

and feeds off of minimization of the issues. And I maximize when someone comes to me and says, my son or daughter or friend or relative is taking X, Y, Z, I say, well, I say they talk to somebody right away. They need to talk to somebody right away. They need to figure out if this person needs help, they need addiction treatment. Lots of times it's just, it's so far down the line,

In two, three, or four or five years they've been addicted, and people are just starting to see the consequences. People are not, don't need to go to rehab just because of consequences. They need to go to rehab if they are sick. And we're treating them like not sick, and they're very, very sick. And I don't understand how I can get across to people that this is an illness. And it's not a moral failing. It's an illness. Yeah.

And we really need to. No, it's treated in this state as just a choice, a recreation, just as something they're leading their best life. This is as sick, this is as sick as humans can get in terms of their brain disease, other than some neurodegenerative disease on a psychiatric spectrum. And by the way, typically they end up with psychiatric symptoms because of the drugs or they may start with psychiatric pathology to begin with. In either case, it's complicated and requires high-level professional training. And Shelley, do you know who's not trained to manage these kinds of cases? Social workers. And they're the ones we're asking to manage this stuff out on the street.

It's like we must give them a scalpel and tell them to do abdominal surgery. That's how distant the training is from where they're at. So do you have any ideas about how we... Yeah, I do. I feel that, well, I feel that people now out on the streets on these chemicals, and Bob was right, these are chemicals. We don't even really know what's in them. These are chemicals. And people have PTSD.

Their frontal lobes are completely offline. They're not, you can't reason with them. You can't talk to them. You can't reason with them because they're in a trauma response. If they're living out on the streets, especially for two or three years on this, the streets, their brain does not work. There's no way to sort of say to them, hey, would you like to go to treatment? These things are going to be extremely difficult to get people to start thinking along the lines of caring about themselves or getting shelter or eating food. It just

completely disrupts the whole system. So the person puts drugs and alcohol at the top of that list of things to do in a day, not get shelter. And when we don't. And when we don't, we don't, we, don't have, and we don't have greatly disabled anymore in this state, so you can't go, hey, this is not okay, we got to help you. Your brain is not functioning normally. Frontal lobe, as you say, is offline. You have antisagnosia,

which is a block of insight. This is what happens in all addictions. It's not, you're not a bad person. Come with me. Let us help you. I'm going to bring Bob back in, but before I do, Shirley, one quick question. That Clancy trial, have you seen that case, that woman who killed her kids? I have seen

bits of it. Yeah, What do you, what, me too. What do you imagine just from your brief brush with it, what do you imagine happened there? Well, I'm, I'm, I'm going to assume that there was psychiatry involved. There was therapeutic interventions because she did get help from my understanding. And then possibly medicated. And then possibly something went awry with the medication or some kind of problem there. Or what if she was seeing multiple physician extenders, one PA, one nurse practitioner, one after another, where that list of medication you're seeing there, one didn't know why the other had selected it, really. I mean, you got one person shepherding all this stuff. Bob, I'll bring you in really quickly for comment on this case also. Sounded like she needed inpatient.

Oh, she had it for a minute, but then, of course, right out. But what I was going to talk about is the people on the streets, there's two categories, Drew. You're talking about the gravely disabled. Nobody's going to pay for them to get the treatment they need. That's almost a generation lost, in my opinion. Even if you got the law that you keep screaming about, no one's going to pay for these people to go to repeatedly to treatment. So that generation. Bob, let me tell you, let me say something.

What are we wasting every year? homeless, 20 billion, something like that, 30 billion? You don't think we could run it, you don't think we could run a treatment program for 100 million? You don't think we could do that? I think the old way, I think the old way we did it is why I and several hundred of my friends are sober, which is you can't live on the street, you go to jail, you detox. How many times I kicked in jail or Mike Marr-Shelly or Martini, like we all kicked in jail. It was good. It was a good thing. right and they got rid of that because we want to be compassionate why you're alive

but so that generation I mean that that level of addiction I don't know I don't hold out a lot of hope that a magical gravely disabled I don't know what you're going to do with them the other part is the people do have do have insurance I do access that they do have access to care they don't want it

they won't stay long enough because they can no of course because they have They have options. They can go do drugs. The good news is the people with resources who stay for six months are still getting sober. And that is the truth. Okay. Right?

Okay. And so six months, Shelly and I just talked about a client today. Drew, it's pot, right? The drug of choice is pot. Somebody's calling me. The drug of choice is pot, right? And Shelley and I were talking about four months. impatient.

Like, you know, people don't think of like, oh, it's just pot. No, the person's brain needs to settle back down. The person's brain needs to settle back down. Maddox psychosis, very common now. But also just to get your brain. Really made that worse. To get your brain back thinking optimistically, thinking, like in the possibilities of things, it takes three or four months.

And nobody's, Nobody with resources wants to stay three or four months, but the ones that do succeed at a very high level. Now, I wonder if we could get some of these people up the street and figure out how to get them four or five or six months treatment, right? Right. That's right. That's what I said. I totally agree with you.

We're all saying the same thing, which is, which is I knew we'd get here, which is treatment does work. It's just hard. It requires a high level professional training and lots of experience in the team. and the team's got to be unified and, you know, clear what we're dealing with. And you need time. You need brains heal slowly, probably the slowest of any organ. And you need six to 12 months.

RFK Jr. wants to put together these work farms for the post-acute care to stay in for a year after treatment, where they get vocational rehab and life skills and some structure in their life and nutrition and more time for their brain to heal. You know, that to me sounds like a good idea. The problem is we don't have the infrastructure to get the initial phases done. We need more psychiatrists. Why don't that? Why don't that?

Because the $20 billion is being spent on tiny houses and on grift and on people's, you know, friends who are contractors building $800,000 condominiums in which people are going to die because they keep doing drugs. Look, I swear to God, it's literally tens of things. billions of dollars and I have no I don't want to do this I don't want their money I want to give it back to the tax players but you the three of us could literally put together a program that a hundred million dollars would be too much to run the program you know what I mean we would be we'd run a program and we could treat tens of

thousands of people like we always did for next to nothing for next to nothing so yeah and we do and they do need long-term treatment and if there is anything that I can say about it is that people need that structure because that's how the brain heals. The brain cannot heal in the same environment that it got sick in. And it's very, very important that they go into therapeutic environments that are contained for a period of time where their brain can actually restructure itself. It's very, very important. And people are asking, Shelley, they're asking what percentage of people get well with long-term care?

Let's each of us give our opinion about that. I would say it depends on the program. Hold on, hold on, you'll see. We should get a chance to give our opinion. Essentially, I always said this in our program, which if you do everything we tell you to do, you will get sober. It's that simple.

The problem is they start wanting to test reality and do it on their own and stuff. And long-term treatment tends to reduce some of that. And so probably you get 70% probably recovering, I would say. What do you say, Sheldie? I'd say 80%. 80% stays if they stay some kind of

in program for two years. For two years, they will stay sober five years. 100% of those, you know, 99% if they'll stay two years. But what I've noticed, we've been checking that at my rehab. It's about somewhere just under 10%

for people 30 days. But those are people with resources and access to care and their addiction is you know, moderate. that's still succeeding one out of ten times. If they stay 90 days or more, that number goes up towards 40%. That's the cold, hard truth of it.

So why wouldn't you want to stay if you quadrupled your chances of succeeding? They don't want to stay. Yeah. They're not motivated to stay. They want to do drugs. They want to do drugs, Bob. And the reason, look, addiction is a behavior

diathesis in the early days of treatment. Their brain wants to do drugs more than anything else, including survive, and you must create barriers. You must create consequences that create motivation to go get well. How many times did somebody come into treatment just because they woke up one day and came in? They come in because the court sent them, their family sent them, they had a medical crisis, they nearly died.

Then they come because it breaks through their denial and creates some motivation. But if you don't have something in that zone, you're going to have dead people. You're going to have dead people all over the place. Yeah. It's very unfortunate. That's what we have. And I feel that it is really important for us to continue to motivate people to get an education around addiction and understand that it is a motivation disturbance. As you taught me, Drew, all those years ago, if they are motivated to do drugs instead of,

of all of the other things that they should be doing. They have a problem. There you go. And they will keep doing it. But I was thinking, Bob, I was thinking about Mike Starr this morning. And I was thinking about how frustrating it was. I mean, you work so hard with him. And he went to Utah to be with a band.

He was staying in a sober living, allegedly. And then one of my peers, a doctor, gave him opiates and benzodiazepines. Two weeks later, dead. that breaks my so many of the people that that we all treated were not killed by this crazy panoply of substances that are on the street

they were killed by physicians they were killed by the medical system thank God we're not doing that anymore so much I mean it still happened with the poor Matthew Perry Matthew Perry that was a medical catastrophe right

Bob yeah it's it's strange like I live on the street that Mike and I and his dad lived on Argyle and Hollywood. And this street is kind of notorious for addicts. And most all of us are sober. Mike is not, I don't know about his sister, his dad. Like we all, you know, Mike's the first person I use with the father, the father and the son.

It was like a new level of addiction, right? And I live on this street and I think about him all the time. about like how come how come four of us louisa would live here louisa was one of them yeah right so why did the why did the three get sober and thriving lives and why did the other three not what is that matt you know i know in mike's case he was getting there mike was getting there the medical system medical system killed him it's that simple but he knew not to go to them he knew not to them he knew not to go to them. No, listen, man, I talked to him two weeks before he said, I'm having

back pain. I said, Mike, whatever you do, do not tell a doctor. Swear to God, do not tell a doctor. So anyway, I just wanted to share that with this. I've been thinking a lot about him too, and it's just a heartbreak, total heartbreak. But again, I guess it's the Hayden Pett and Tiri thing reminded me of how treacherous

and destructive and dangerous and fatal this condition is. I'll give you guys each, just give me 20 seconds less, thoughts. Shelly, you first and Bob. Well, my heart goes out to anyone who is suffering. My heart goes out to anyone who has lost a family member. I have deep, deep empathy for you all. And I hope that if there's anything that I can do to help, I am happy to help guide. I'm happy to help people to get sober. So thank you for giving me the opportunity to be here today. Thank you.

Yeah, and I'll just say, always a privilege. I'll just say, like I'm not kidding, I'm talking to the addicts if they're listening, you're going to die. Look to your running buddy there. One of the two of you is going to die in the next five years. That's just the numbers. And so when people are shocked at this young, poor, sad girl died, it's not shocking to me, right?

It's shocking to the people who liked her on Disney, you know, or whatever followed her. It's not shocking to me. One out of two are going to die. and the question is, are you going to be the one that dies or the one that thrives? It really is up to the individual, Drew. It really is. Yeah, it is.

And yet I see miracles all the time. People that, you know, I would not ever imagine would get it. Stephen Adler. What about Stephen Adler still, right? He's doing great. Steve's doing great. Do we have that video, Caleb? Yeah, there's a picture of him playing the drums.

You got to remember when I, when we got to. But Steve, he had just tried to cut his head off. And he was, poor guy, was so ill. There he is. There he is. There he is. They're saying that. I walked in, I was ready.

Can't hear him. I was ready. And Dr. Drew is so helpful. He can explain to you reasons why, you know, you're drinking and drugging. And he can explain it in a Sesame Street way. Well, it's pretty basic. you know. Okay, we got it.

But I love, Stephen. He said that you got a love of heroin. And he was like, he was just praising it. This was two months ago. He, Stephen is.

He's still alive. We have nothing but affection for literally everybody. He's the love. And even the ones, yeah, yeah. Yes.

And so was my, it's why I'm heartbroken about that one. That one just, he tried everything. He started like that sort of organization. He was reading this great book.

He can't, on our show. He was reading. What was the name of the book he was reading? The eight principles or something? It was something he found four principles or whatever. Four. Yeah.

Four, he was really into that. Yeah. I think it might have been that. He got a lot out of that. And it really helped him frame things. He was getting on with his mom and everything. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. I've got to move on to an entirely different. It works if you work it. It works if you work. It's that simple. You just got to show up. You got to listen to the Shelley.

Listen to the bobs of the world. It's just, but I'm beginning to increase my awareness that there is a gift of desperation. And if you help people get to that point of desperation, they really have a much higher probability of getting well. So, all right, guys, thanks for being here. We'll talk soon. All right. See you later.

All right. Thank you. God bless you. All right. We are going to switch gears. I do want to ask Dr. Thorpe about the Clancy case too, because he is an expert in all things related to pregnancy, and we're going to talk about the vaccine and the risks that were hidden from us as pertains to that vaccine after this.

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Happy to be on here. Thank you for having me. You and I see the world the same way. What is it like for you to be the most chiseled and best looking man in media? giving us the information we need. Thank you for the truth. My pleasure. We are going to take your calls at 8333-3-D-R-A-W.

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Medicare is bewildering both as a provider and as a patient. So I understand. All right. Let me give you the particulars on Dr. James Thorpe. He is a friend. He is part of the TWC Chief Medical Board. He's a gynecologist, obstetrician, maternal fetal medicine specialist. He is in St. Louis, Missouri, and he got his MD from Wayne State.

He's probably more than 40 years. He's one of the few. I think there's like 80 of you guys out there. We'll find out in a second. But he was on the front lines during COVID-19. He's been speaking out. You can follow him on X at, uh-oh. J-A. Dorp.

Looks like M-F-M. Jim, you're going to have to tell me what that is on X. What is your X handle, first of all? Oh, no, we don't have your sounds on. The mic must still be muted at that. You're being so good. There you are. So give me the X handle first.

J. Thorpe, what? M-F-M, as in maternal fetal medicine. Okay, J-A-thorpe, M-F-M. And how many specialists are trained at this level that you have in your professional credentials in this country? Very few. There's about 60,000 OB-GYN. physicians and a very, very small fraction are specialty trained, which is an additional three year on top of a four-year residency program, additional three years in maternal fetal medicine.

And before we get into the vaccine catastrophe, I want to ask your opinion on the Clancy case, and if you've had to brush by that at all, this case where this woman killed her three kids and tried to kill herself. And it has brought to the forefront the whole conversation about postpartum psychiatric symptoms, frankly. And I personally have seen, saw tons of it at the psychiatric hospital back in the day. And it is dramatic when people develop it. What are your thoughts on that case? It's an extraordinarily sad case, Drew.

And it brings to my mind this recent allegation of first-degree murder, of the mother of twins, right, in Idaho. So these are extraordinarily sad cases. And both of them are very different cases. I don't have your expertise and your level of expertise and knowledge and practice in psychiatric illness. What I do know is that I first authored a paper with you and many other highly esteemed colleagues,

including Dr. Peter Breggen, Dr. Peter McCullough. And we looked at 86 lower-level terms from the VERS database that were all cognitive and psychiatric illnesses, symptoms in the VERS FDA database. And it showed a very concerning safety signal for each one of those. And by the way, that included homicidal and suicidal behavior, which is associated with a COVID-19 vaccine compared with all other vaccines together, non-COVID 19 vaccines. So this brings into play what could have, were they vaccinated? I know that psychosis and cognitive decline are multifactorial.

there's many, many, many variables, which you know better than I do. But did the COVID-19 vaccine contribute in part? I don't know. And let's talk about what you were seeing in terms of what we now know to have been hidden information. Dr. Fauci framed it as cytokime activation, or I think he even used the word storm, which to me just by itself is something I want to know about. forget whether it actually causes the first trimester terminations.

I just want to know that the second shot was causing cytokine storm. That's incredible news. I wasn't aware of that, and yet it makes sense with some of the problems I saw. That was hidden from us. Both Dr. Walensky and I think somebody else on the team thought, oh, it was a surgeon general, that this could easily be a trigger for first trimester spontaneous abortion. What were you seeing? In 2020, I really saw nothing different.

And after the rollout of the vaccine, I personally saw a massive increase in miscarriage, fetal death, fetal anomalies, preterm rupture of membranes, preterm delivery, cervical insufficiency, the whole gamut. fetal fetal death, fetal cardiac anomalies, fetal arrhythmias, significant placental complications, failure of the baby to grow inside the womb,

and newborn death. So it was just a panoply of severe adverse outcomes, of which miscarriage is really only one of many. So that's what I saw. And by the way, at the time, I was employed by SSM Health.

And in that four year, four and a half year period that I was employed by them, I saw 27,500 high risk mothers and their fetuses by ultrasound. So I really did have my fingertips on the pulse of obstetrical outcome. It is very, very sad that on September 27th, 2021, the American Board of Extentrics and Gynecology sent out a threat to 62,000, all of their constituents and said, you will not deviate from the protocol, the COVID-19 protocols that they had, including pushing the vaccine and pregnancy. And if you do, you'll lose your medical license and your board certification. So it's really a shame, you know, that there's very,

very, very few. I think to my knowledge, I've been told I'm the only maternal fetal medicine physician in the world that has come out and talked about this and published data on it. Now, there are some other OBGYN colleagues that I have, Dan McDiier, Kimberly Biss, Dr. Christiane Northrop, and some others, but very, very few. Has the ACOG taken a look at what it did there now in the light of new information? are they still defending that position? They're still pushing the vaccines in pregnancy, and it's extraordinarily disturbing. You know, you talk about you're a very, very sharp physician,

and you know your literature, and when your eyebrows raised with a cytokine storm, you know what that's all about. But, you know, for 50 years, the last half of the century, we in high-risk pregnancy knew that inflammation, was a disaster for pregnant women. So Dr. Roberto Romero spent his career. He's probably 10, 15 years my senior,

extensive publications and research in the last half a century on the dangers of inflammation. And this was why I was so concerned about the vaccine. And what is the miscarriage rate? Well, nobody knows. of the data. You did a great segment with Sasha Latipova and Emily Kaplan last week. And, you know, I think they brought up some really good points, but it's disturbing that, it's disturbing that high-risk obstetricians are not speaking out because there's so many nuances, Drew, to pregnant women. You know, most, you know, here we have Ben Shapiro speaking out on this.

We got Alex Berenson, we've got, you know, some PhDs. But you know as well as I do that most MDs that are not obstetricians, they don't know how to date a pregnancy. They don't know what the crucial times in pregnancy are. You know, gosh, very few realize that after conception, which is, you know, two weeks before a mom has missed her last normal menstrual period, there may be an 80% spontaneous miscarriage rate, somewhere in that regards after ovulation and conception. Right. And then she doesn't even know until two weeks later.

But there's some very, very critical time periods, Drew, in that first trimester. For example, let's go back and let's look at some of the disaster. with thalidomide. You know, what we knew is that one 50 milligram pill drew, one of thalidomide, 50 milligrams, if given 20 to 36 days of conception, after conception, some experts would say 100% of those babies were affected, either miscarried or severely damaged with the focal melias

and other anomalies. So my point, there is to date, there are no data. There are no data on what the miscarriage rate is. It probably depends on when you would give that vaccine, what the crucial stages are, probably depends on many variables. But I don't believe any of the data that's been published. And by the way, that 81% miscarriage rate was available by my analysis in 2021 of the Pfizer 5.3.6 data that was actually leaked out. That is the first 10 weeks of the Pfizer's legally mandated post-market data. And that's from December 15th, 2020 to February 28th, 2021.

And if, you know, I had that, that was sent from Pfizer to the CDC FDA on April 30th, 2021. But that data was available to them. It was available to me. And on page 12, you could look at the data presented, again, extraordinarily important. poorly written. I purposefully obfuscated. But the miscarriage rate that I analyzed in 2021 was 81%. And then again, you know, Sasha and Emily reviewed the slight of hand, if you will, with these statistics and shifting the denominator. But it was clear that the raw data they presented was, what, 102 out of 127.

Well, even, even, Jim, if you push back on that and just go with the analysis such as they presented it, they came up with a, I'm getting this right. Yeah, it was a 12% spontaneous abortion rate overall. And they did not specify in which trimester. And they claim, therefore, that was a normal number for a pregnancy when in fact, as, Sasha LaDopoto pointed out, if you take the entire chorus from first trimester forward, it should be more like 1.2%. And it's literally with their own data 10 times more than it should have been. So, yeah, it's all concerning. Are you talking to your colleagues at all? Or can you get any, even the ones that disagree with you? Will they talk?

You know, during the time when I was speaking out, testifying really all over the world, my people would come up and slap me on the back privately and say, man, you're doing incredible work, keep it up. But I felt like saying, well, you know what's going on. Why don't you speak out? But nobody could speak out. Otherwise, they would be fired like I was fired. They would lose their paychecks. And nobody was really willing to. to do that. No other maternal fetal medicine physicians. Still. Still happening. It's still the case, I think, right? I had an exchange with a colleague this morning.

I had an exchange with a colleague this morning. And we started talking again about being the French underground. Like you can't talk to anybody. I'm sure there are people who agree with some of the stuff that I'm thinking these days, but you can't discuss it because everyone's scared to death. So it's a weird time in our profession. So is there anywhere people can go to get reliable information in your opinion? Well, I think that I've recently outlined 12 tiers layers, hierarchical, 12 layers,

onion peels, if you will, of medical journal publication fraud. So if you go to AI, you're going to get AI assimilating that fraud. fraudulent data. Unfortunately, as you know, the statistics were manipulated. Patients were counted as unvaccinated 13 days after their vaccine. And we know that this was altered all the statistics. That's what the hospitals did. That's what the CDC and the government did. And so you can't really rely on medical journal publications. They're Well, Jim, to interrupt you, we have that New England Journal article and the editorial by Dr. Walensky. You want to address that?

Well, yeah, what I'll say, absolutely. It's really horrible that on April 21st, 2021, the editor-in-chief of the New England Journal of Medicine, Eric Rubin and his managing editor had Rochelle Walensky on, and they pushed the COVID-19 vaccine. in pregnant women, and it came out in the same issue that the Shemabakuro article came out, and all of them knew. Now, Dundrew, all of them had these emails. They knew it was a danger in pregnancy, and you could, maybe Caleb could bring up that clip where you have Rochelle Wollenski saying, there's never a bad time to take the vaccine around pregnancy.

You can take it before pregnancy. You can take it while you're conceiving. You can take it in the first trimester, the second trimester, the third trimester, and breastfeeding. And, you know, she's not an obstetrician. She has nothing, no knowledge of obstetrics. And she knew, and she still pushed it. And, you know, there was a money transfer, and I've published this, there was a money transfer from Wollinsky, HHS, CDC, to the New England Journal of Medicine. And which brings up the question, why would Eric Rubin bring Rochelle Walensky on there to talk about pregnancy issues in the vaccine?

Why not bring on an experienced OBGYN or maternal fetal medicine specialist? Because there was a quid pro quo. You know, we remember Eric Rubin voting for pushing the vaccine in children in October of 2021. And everybody will remember, Adin Fanatim, his famous statement, quote, well, we're just going to have to roll the vaccine out and the children and see what happens. And that's the kind of science and corruption from the New England Journal of Medicine. And Rochelle Walinsky. And, you know, Fauci, yeah, you know, I'm not trying to have murder. I'm saying, you know, he's innocent or anything like that.

No, he's guilty as charged. But you know what? So is Francis Collins. So is Peter Dossack. So is Rochelle Wollinsky, Shema Bacoro. And by the way, on that Shemabakuro study, there weren't 40 authors, over 21 authors. Three of them were OBs, all of more federal employees. The lead author, Shima Bucoro, was actually the head of the vaccine safety in the CDC, FDA, since 2010.

None of those conflicts of interest were declared. And by the way, Rochelle Walensky and Eric Rubin violated their own institutions' written ethical statements. They did not declare. They did not declare monies transferred from HHS to the New England Journal of Medicine. So it's just, it's very corrupt. it's so disturbing it's sad you know i i found myself being more emotional these days than anything else and and that you know you're not allowed to have nuanced conversation about these things and they're not allowed to i still look back at that whole era and the fact that

people confounded were so unable for some reason well all the brainwashing i guess couldn't tell the difference between alpha and delta and then Omicron? These were like entirely different illnesses and they're still treating as though it's alpha and delta. It's just the weirdest thing to me. But in any event, Jim, it is always great to see you.

Thank you for all you do for TWC and for the pregnant population and children of the world. I'm glad you're still out there doing your thing and speaking out and they have not silenced you yet.

And I wonder if you should tell people where they should go to find you. Yeah, I'll say just that for those listeners, please support Dr. Drew. He's an incredible beacon of light and truth. And also, please support Senator Ron Johnson. Okay. This is a courageous, bold warrior of the truth. And he's been fighting for a long time for truth. So thanks so much for having me on.

It's funny. That's a great thing to say. The people behave as though he just stepped forward. You and I have been watching him for four years, I think. He's just been, he has been. And at first, he was a little incredulous. Like, what? This can't be the case.

This isn't happening. And then we started going, no, Senator, please, please listen, it's happening. Now he uncovered enough that he became his own champion of, of getting to the truth. So, Dr. James Thorpe, thank you, my friend. Good to see you. Thanks for having me, Andrew. Of course.

All right, Caleb, let's get to the upcoming guest. Today did not disappoint. I knew today would be very, very interesting. Let's see, Jay Bieber in tomorrow. Salty Cracker on Thursday, you guys have been begging for that, and Emily Barsh is 100% delivering.

Dave Ruben, with Winston Marshall. That's going to be great. I can't see what's Alan Dershowitz. I see on there for the third. So there's a lot of great guests coming on. It's going to be a little choppy because I'm actually going out to Miami that week.

But we will be doing shows. And let me quickly look at what you guys are saying on the restream and the rants. Thank you, Karen. We appreciate that. I'm looking through the list here. Give me a second to kind of, it's hard to scroll up on the rants.

a little bit. Whoops. Thank you, your daddy for the super chat. Okay. And then quickly, I'm going to go over the restream. I apologize that this is a little chumpy.

That's very funny. AZKR, KFF says, I remember Senator Ron Johnson, way back when he started in Miami Vice. Wasn't Ron Johnson. Let's see. Okay, well, thank you guys for being a part of it. I do watch the rants and the Rumble and the restream as we are going along here.

Tomorrow, I got a second. Let me get my calendar out and make sure I'm doing everything here. All right. Tomorrow we're going to do the 4 o'clock. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. 4 o'clock Pacific time with Jay Bieber, who is not Justin Bieber. Everyone's saying, what does that stand for?

Jay Bieber, it's a totally different guy. Yes, for sure. And I will be there, 4 o'clock. All of us will be around again. We'll see you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. Emily Barsh is our content producer. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment.

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