Ask Dr. Drew - How Big Pharma Hijacked Evidence-Based Medicine: Dr. Aseem Malhotra and Dr. Kelly Victory Warn of Rising Influence of Pharmaceutical Corporations – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 228

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

“Doctors and patients must appreciate how deeply and extensively drug regulators can’t be trusted so long as they’re captured by industry funding,” reads a quote from Donald Light in a recent presentation by Dr. Aseem Malhotra, warning of the rising influence of pharmaceutical corporations over individual physicians and drug safety studies. Dr. Aseem Malhotra is a British cardiologist, public health campaigner, author of several books, and writer of newspaper articles. He campaigns for people to reduce sugar in their diet, promotes a low-carb and high-fat diet, and encourages the reduction of medical overprescribing. Dr. Aseem is an NHS Trained Consultant Cardiologist and visiting Professor of Evidence Based Medicine at Bahiana School of Medicine and Public Health, Salvador, Brazil. He is a world-renowned expert in the prevention of heart disease. Follow Dr. Malhotra at https://twitter.com/draseemmalhotra and https://doctoraseem.com/ 「 SPONSORED BY 」 • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 WITH DR. KELLY VICTORY 」 Dr. Kelly Victory MD is a board-certified trauma and emergency specialist with over 30 years of clinical experience. She served as CMO for Whole Health Management, delivering on-site healthcare services for Fortune 500 companies. She holds a BS from Duke University and her MD from the University of North Carolina. Follow her at https://earlycovidcare.org and https://twitter.com/DrKellyVictory. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Everyone, we are delighted to bring our friend back, Asim Malhotra. I was early on to Asim. I think I saw something that made sense to me that he said on Twitter, and I interviewed him at the Dr. Drew podcast, and Kelly and I interviewed him here. And he has traveled the world, literally, since we last spoke with him, and his ideas have evolved. He's, of course, a cardiologist who, after the death of his father unexpectedly, without any significant coronary disease, he started asking questions.

Not allowed to do that anymore. And as a result, he came to some interesting conclusions. He's been warning about the rising influence of pharmaceutical companies, much like our friend RFK Jr. And he's a cardiologist, as I said. He's also a professor of evidence-based medicine. He is from a study public health in Brazil, and he's, of course, an expert on the prevention of heart disease. But he has shunted a lot of his attention over to vaccine therapies and the recent COVID debacle, which we will get into with our friend Kelly Victory as well after this. Our laws as it pertains to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopath started this.

He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real.

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Susan and I love GenuCell so much, we've created our own bundles so you can try our favorite anti-wrinkle treatments, correcting serums, and ultra-retinol creams. Just go to GenuCell.com slash Drew. Use the code Drew for an extra discount and free priority shipping. Again, that is GenuCell.com slash Drew. G-E-N-U-C-E-L.com slash D-R-E-W. We are looking forward to today's conversation with Asim Malhotra. As I said, he's a cardiologist. He's an expert in prevention of coronary disease and has studied evidence-based medicine. He has been concerned about the influence of big pharma on what has been going on lately,

particularly in this country. He is talking to us today from Australia, I believe. You can follow him on Twitter, Dr. Asim Malhotra. It's spelled M-A-L-H-O-T-R-A. Please welcome Asim Malhotra. There we are. Hi, Drew. Lovely to see you again. Lovely to see you as well. Are you in Australia right now? Did I get that right? Yes, that's correct, my friend. I'm currently in Brisbane, just at the tail end of a pretty

whirlwind, intense speaking tour across several cities in Australia. Just finished my 10th talk in about 12 days and one big one to come, one huge one to come on Saturday. We'll tell them about that so they can drop it if they want. Yeah, so I'm speaking in Perth, but we're live streaming a kind of health event looking at suppression of speech and corruption of medicine, if you like.

So the other people that are going to be speaking on I'm a wolf Edward Dowd and the father of Julian Assange John Shipton so I think it promises to be a very interesting event certainly in Perth it's close to sell out there's about 2,500 people that are coming to that talk but we want to live stream it so people can really get access to a very well what I would say is that is a greater truth around what's going on in the world right now and and also see what solutions we can offer to fix the problem and it seems I mean Australia a, let's just say, heavy-handed with lockdowns and draconian. Let's use what it really was. And I've spoken to, sort of regionally it seems to vary, but I've spoken to a number

of Australians who are like, well, they had to do what they had to do. They seem rather shockingly accepting of this. As they're learning the reality of the excesses and the sort of capricious draconian nature of them are they sort of getting a little angry like they should yeah drew it's interesting so on that first point i was trying to understand why was australia particularly draconian with their lockdown measures, with their mandates, etc. And I think there's some historical precedent that needs to be addressed and understood. So Australia actually has a very good historical public health track record. So they were one of the first countries to introduce compulsory seatbelts in cars.

They were very good and early in tobacco control. And I think because of those successes, you know, there's a culture here where in general, public have faith in public health in Australia and in their government. So I think that played a role. And of course, like everywhere around the world,

you've also got huge influence of industry as well behind the scenes. So I think that combination of factors, certainly with Big Pharma, led to those measures being implemented. But as you said already, I feel that certainly since I've been in Australia and certainly the people I've been speaking with, there definitely has been a shift, partly due to some big mainstream media articles that have been disseminated really to most Australians, including a class

action suit brought by a general practitioner called Dr Melissa McCann against the medical regulator and the Australian government making claims. And this is, you know, hundreds of people who have actually injured a part of that suit. And basically the claims that have been made in this suit is that the regulator and the government were negligent first and foremost by saying that the COVID vaccine was safe and effective. And the issue has been compounded by the fact that they have failed to acknowledge that there are huge reports of serious adverse events from Australians to their regulators that are effectively being ignored.

So that's really interesting. And then, of course, since I got here as an activist, one of the ways of trying to change the system is to make the injustice visible throughout my sort of 10 year career in activism. Almost every medical journal article I've written, I've tried to get into the mainstream news. So I knew the power of the media and we've been quite fortunate in the sense that I was able to break Sky News Australia and get my view across that the vaccines should be stopped.

The Canberra Weekly, the capital of the country, their local paper actually put a very positive article from my perspective saying, as I said before, and in fact, quite in the headline, that I said that these vaccines likely should never have been approved for use in a single human in the first place. And then yesterday, News.com Australia, which is a mainstream website for news in Australia, also put a headline that the British cardiologist calls for suspension of these COVID-19 vaccines. So I think there is definitely progress. I think one thing to mention that many people across the world may not know, Drew, is that there was in Australia, if you are a healthcare

professional and you didn't get vaccinated, you lost your job. And the group of people that have supported my trip, who I've been traveling around with, are called the Australian Medical Professional Society. And they are made up of those healthcare practitioners. And they are really fighting for patients to get the truth out, and I'm here to support them to ensure that they get their jobs back. In fact, one of them, the president of the association, is a very eminent cardiologist called Chris Neal. You know, he's supervised 60 PhD students.

He's a well-establishedlished published cardiologist in heart failure. And he's a brilliant man and he stood his ground and he's fighting for medical ethics and that's what these people are doing. So I'm here to help support them, get their jobs back and hopefully also get compensated as well. So I'm having trouble understanding how it is possible that essentially every Western government's public health infrastructure is allegedly ignoring reports of serious damage.

And I'm wondering how that could be. What do you imagine is going on? Over here, I hear a lot of dismissal of the, we have a reporting system that people can, called the VAERS system that people go, anybody can report, whatever. But even individual experiences are being sort of sideline. I interviewed a friend of mine who was an extremely accomplished writer, director, producer, whose life has been disabled for the last year.

I just had him tell his story. Was that Thursday? Was it yesterday? Or when was it? Last week, I think. And, you know, people have these stories and nobody seems to be getting that data throughout the world, it seems like. What do you imagine is going on? Yeah, it's a great question, Drew. In fact, I start my lectures actually addressing this. So

I think what we're dealing with here is not a battle of facts or of intellect or rationality. We're fighting a psychological battle first. So the first barrier is one of fear. And I think that fear that was created at the beginning of the pandemic was still very present for many people around COVID. And of course, when you're in a state of fear, psychologically inhibits your ability to engage in critical thinking. So that's one barrier. But I think maybe the bigger one is an issue called willful blindness. So this is when human beings turn a blind eye to the truth in order to feel safe, avoid conflict, reduce anxiety, and to protect prestige and fragile egos. So this is the real barriers that we have to deal with because Drew, as you know, the

evidence and the facts on the harms of these COVID vaccines are common and very serious. And they are being dismissed by many people because of that willful blindness. But also I think we've got to also have some empathy. I'm not saying it's right. It's our job as doctors to stand up and to take flak when we need to take flak. But I think for a lot of people, certainly in the medical establishment,

governments, regulators to acknowledge that, and listen, I had to make a U-turn myself, as you know, it took me time to get here, but to acknowledge what they have been part of and what they have unwittingly, you know, implemented in terms of these vaccine rollouts on the public, knowing the evidence that we know, it's actually horrific, absolutely horrific. And emotionally, that's quite traumatic, I think, for a lot of people to acknowledge. So it's much easier to bury your head in the sand.

Let me give you one example, just for people to understand this level of willful blindness. Not so long ago, there was a case in the UK that made BBC News where a psychologist working in the NHS, a 32-year-old guy, fit and healthy, within a couple of weeks of having the COVID vaccine, he died of a stroke, right?

And on the death certificate, it was written he died of natural causes. The wife took it to court and the coroner's court ruled that it was the vaccine. But can you imagine, even in something so clearly obvious, temporally related, no other obvious factor,

and they put natural causes, the medical profession, the doctors looking after this person. So that tells you the degree drew of what we're dealing with here. And I think the only way to tackle it is really to just keep hammering and being person, you know, persevere with the facts, but also having empathy for people and saying, well, let's try and open people's minds up and eyes up to understand the emotional factors driving this sort of behavior. And, you know, I've seen on Twitter, I won't name people, but some people who I've considered

to be great intellectuals, great scientists, and a lot of their responses to this sort of stuff is clearly coming from a place of emotion and even ego, not from rationality. So let's remember, I think as human beings, we are primarily, unfortunately, well, maybe fortunately in some cases, we are primarily emotional rather than being rational with a lot of our decision making in the first instance, for sure. Aidan McCullen, Yes. Yes, Plato, Plato taught us that many a year ago, the the monkey trying to control the elephant.

That's why they are cognition is the monkey trying to control the elephant. That's my mic on you hearing me okay yeah yeah for some reason i suddenly didn't get my my earpieces turned off or something but uh in any event uh so you're also describing cognitive dissonance right it's it's not just willful blindness it's and biased thinking it's cognitive dissonance and some of that you know one of the know, I'm learning little pieces with everybody I interview. And one of the things that has come to light for me, I'm sort of thinking in terms of the central nervous system effects of COVID and the vaccine. Many of the

vaccine sort of researchers and the people responsible for vaccine policy, at least in this country, and I suspect worldwide, are pediatricians. They're pediatricians. And their sense of adult medicine is totally biased, not biased, different than mine as an adult practitioner. I'm thinking now of the many, several pediatricians I've spoken to that are apoplectic about vaccines positively. You have to get the vaccine. And when I question them, they start to get focused on some of the neurological effects of COVID. Like, there's been brain shrinkage. My God, there's been brain shrinkage.

And people have memory problems and they get ringing in the ears. Like, yes. And as an adult practitioner, that happens almost after every severe illness after the age of 50. And guess what happens? It comes back. They get better. Now, maybe over the age of 75 or 80, it's not as resilient, but it comes back. But a pediatrician has no experience with this whatsoever.

So what they see is brain damage. Yeah, if a child's brain shrinks, I don't know what that means. I don't have experience with that. That sounds pretty dangerous. But an adult, every time I pull somebody out of an ICU, they have symptoms like that every single time. And almost always they get better. And I'll let you comment about that because I think, you know, I want to get a little bit down the road of a central nervous system effect, something you and I have never talked about.

But go ahead and respond to that if you would. No, Drew, it's a good point. And I think, you know, we have to have a nuanced discussion here because we can accept, you know, I think it's important to simultaneously accept that for some people, COVID has been particularly debilitating. We know certainly early on the pandemic, the elderly and vulnerable were more likely to get severe disease. Obviously things have evolved to some degree. And I've of course managed a few people with long COVID who didn't get vaccinated and are taking a long time

to really get over very debilitating symptoms. So we can acknowledge that, but there's something else that I don't ask the question, on a minute okay there is that going on but does taking the vaccine actually prevent these complications and i don't think there's any evidence for that whatsoever um so no there actually is it just it just came out i i'm going to push back there was a publication i think the new england journal like yesterday, that did show decrease in sequelae. So there is now an article suggesting that that to push that narrative that the vaccine is safe and effective because that's we got to the situation because of those financial interests and regulators being funded by pharma to to the degree where um john ianidis as you know who i

call the stephen hawking of medicine the most published medical scientists in the world pre pandemic said you know most published research is misleading, where exaggeration of safety and benefits of pharmacological interventions becomes the default through publication. So we have to understand. And of course, what he also says is this, the greater the financial interest in a given field, the less likely the research findings are to be true. So I think with all of these bits of data,

we have to look at it with some healthy skepticism, but I'm here to try and look at the overall totality of evidence. And what's very clear for me is that when you look at the, we go to the root cause of it, in fact, just one bit of data, which is probably enough to some degree, do I think to call for a suspension of these vaccines

was a re-analysis of Pfizer and Moderna's own randomized, double-blinded randomized control trials published in the journal Vaccine towards the middle of last year by very eminent people. When I say eminence of integrity, people who don't have financial conflicts of interest. We've got Peter Doshi, associate editor at BMJ. We've got Santa Greenland,

who's considered probably the top epidemiologist in the world. He wrote the textbook on epidemiology. We've got Robert Kaplan from Stanford, and they found from the very beginning, you were more likely to suffer serious harm from the vaccine than you were to be hospitalized with COVID. So for me, it was a no-brainer.

This should never have been approved for use in a single human in the first place. And that's very clear. You can follow Dr. Malhotra on Twitter at Dr. Asim Malhotra. We are going to take a little break. I want to get Kelly Victory in here as quickly as possible because she's got a ton for you as well, Dr. Malhotra. So hang in. We're going to do a little business and then bring Dr. Victory in and we'll continue this conversation. A lot of you have been asking for more information about how to counter the adverse effects of the spike protein from COVID infections and the COVID vaccine. The spike protein is not your friend, let's just say that. So I'm glad we have the wellness company Spike Support Formula

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And we welcome Dr. Kelly Victory. But before I let her dig in, Dr. Victory, one second. I mentioned an article a few seconds ago I had read about decreased post-COVID complications following vaccine therapy. A simple Internet search does not find that article. So I thought I read it in the England Journal. I may have misread or maybe I don't remember what I was reading. I did find two other articles, a Lancet and a Nature articles, both in their opening description of their own article, they described the evidence as poor. So I'm not quite sure I'll have to find that once again, see if that article actually really existed or if I dreamed it or something. Dr. Victor, I give you Dr. Malhotra. I assume.

Thank you. Great to have you back. And thank you for putting up with whatever the time difference is. I think you're on the other side of the planet from us right now. So I don't even know what the date is. If you're before us or behind us, but in any event, welcome. I think it's 8th of June here. Yeah, 8th of June here. I think it's kind of 8.30 in the morning. So it's not too bad. I'm a morning person, so it's all good. Terrific. Well, thank you for being here. I want to pick up sort of where you left off. And then let's talk about, in my estimation, none of this could have happened.

What we've experienced in the last three and a half years, none of it could have happened without the highly orchestrated collusion between big pharma, the mainstream media, social media, and our big agencies, our federal agencies, for us, the CDC and the FDA. It was an orchestrated collusion in my mind. And they clearly shut down people like you and me and others. I was there very early on raising the alarm flags about the vaccine, certainly, and also being very, very critical of other portions of the pandemic response. But let's talk a little bit about that. You're about to do this, what sounds like a fascinating conference with some other real truth warriors, Naomi Wolf and Ed Dowd, neither of whom incidentally come from a scientific background, but they both have come to the undeniable conclusion

that these vaccines are absolutely disastrous. Talk a little bit about where you see how this might have played out differently or how we don't allow this to happen again by disarticulating this relationship, this very cozy relationship between big pharma and the other players? Yeah, it's a great question, Kelly. So in fact, you know, I think some, a paper I urge everybody to read, which you can Google search, it's open access, you know, even for the lay person, they can understand it. Doctors will find it fascinating. It's open access, even for the lay person, they can understand it. Doctors will find it fascinating. It's called,

How to Survive the Medical Misinformation Mess. And the lead author is John Ioannidis, who I call the Stephen Hawking-like figure of medicine. And what it highlights again is how, this was published in 2017, pre-pandemic. Even at that stage, he highlights that in the United States, 20 to 50% of all healthcare activity, and you spend more than $4 trillion on healthcare,

brings no benefit to the patient. I mean, that's an extraordinary figure, and he explains why, and he says, "'Most doctors are unaware of the poor quality research "'that drives overuse of medications, "'underuse of simpler, safer options, "'including lifestyle interventions, "'missed opportunities for for right care, giving the right patient the right treatment at the right time, huge waste, and avoidable adverse events.

And he says that, you know, and the roots of this is that most, if not most, if not much published clinical research is unreliable, not useful to decision makers or patients. But the issue, Kelly, is this, I think, which you've raised. Most healthcare practitioners are not aware of this problem. They are not aware of these system failures. Then they lack the critical appraisal skills to understand the reliability of clinical evidence. And then finally, patients lack accurate information

when it comes to making decisions about their health from their doctors. So he really highlights it in a very analytical way. But coming back to what you said earlier, the problem we've got is that over time, I mean, this has been getting worse, I think probably since the 1980s. And well-intentioned, you know, this is the economic system at the heart of the problem. Well-intentioned neoliberal economic policies that were promulgated by the likes of Ronald Reagan in the US and Margaret Thatcher in the UK

meant that over time since the 80s that these big multinational corporations, and we can use the example of Big Pharma here, gained more and more both visible and invisible unchecked power. So for example, if you look at academic institutions in the US and the UK and many parts of the world, most of their funding now for clinical research isn't publicly or government funded.

It comes from pharma, right? The pharmaceutical industry, their primary motives to make profit for shareholders, they don't have a legal obligation to do the best treatment. But the real scandals are regulators fail to prevent misconduct by industries and by industry and doctors, academic institutions and medical journals that have a responsibility to scientific integrity collude with industry for financial gain. And I've actually come up with a term that even Richard Hawson referenced in the Lancet when he came to one of my lectures in London a few months ago called the psychopathic determinants

of health. And I made that sort of, I came up with that term based upon the fact that Robert Hare, forensic psychologist behind the original DSM criteria for psychopathy, he actually, in the book, The Corporation, which people should read in the documentary done by law professor Joel Buchanan in the States, says that quite often, not always, as legal entities, multinational corporations in their pursuit for profit fulfill the criteria for psychopathy. So callous unconcern for the safety of others, deceitfulness, repeated lying and conning others for profit

and incapacity to experience guilt. So I think that is actually at the root of many of the problems we're facing right now, Kelly, in terms of understanding the culture that we've got into, even where we've got silencing of whistleblowers, we've got a culture where, Richard Smith, former to the BMJ in 2016, discusses the fact that he was at an academic conference

where he gave a lecture to many of Britain's top academics academics and he asked the audience how many of them were aware of a colleague that had fabricated data or committed research misconduct in their department a third of them put their hand up kelly third right and then he asked them how you reported it and they all put their hand down right so so here's the question. Exactly. And I am aware of that. So where does that leave us? Here we are, three physicians on this show right now discussing. I always prided myself in being very intellectually curious. I was not lazy. I went to what I perceived to be the... I went to the journal. I went to the Lancet. I read the study. I didn't just read the abstract. I thought all this time, three decades I've been doing this, and I believed,

and this pandemic has for me been really an eye-opener that I realized exactly what you are saying, that the large majority of the studies of the quote literature are falsified, are faulty. They are bought by big pharma. And here, even though we have discussed it on this show over and over again, including quite recently with Bobby Kennedy, what did Drew, and this is not a dig at Drew. It's how we all default. You immediately say, oh, wait, I just read an article in the Lancet. And you still want to give them credence. Because without that, where does that leave physicians? Where does that leave scientists? The very underpinnings for me, at least, I am starting to question many of the foundational constructs of what I've done in medicine. I don't know what to believe with regard to my use of statins, of opiates, of antibiotics,

of blood pressure medications, of lots of things now, given that I can no longer trust the science. Yeah, I mean, on that point, Richard Horton in 2015 in an editorial wrote in relation to a meeting that he'd attended organized by the Wellcome Trust in the UK, where he said some of the top academic researchers in the world, he said, possibly half, this is the editor balancing, possibly half of the medical published literature may simply be untrue. But he concluded, and this is where I think we need to find solutions here, Kelly.

He said, science has taken a turn towards darkness, but who is gonna take the first step to clean up the system? So once we identify these issues in the system, that basically we've got too many people with conflicts of interest making decisions over health policy, determining clinical guidelines. So we need to devolve ourselves from those conflicts of interest so that we can be more confident in the information that we receive as doctors and clinicians is closer to the

truth. You know, one could argue philosophically, there's never, there's no absolute truth. We want is greater truth. So we want to improve our patient outcomes. And of course, you can take a step back and just look at what's going on in terms of the health of the world. In the US, I think you've lost two years of your life expectancy in the last few years. In the UK, we've had a stalling of life expectancy

and more people are living with chronic disease. So if we look at the overall picture, I think people are more aware that something isn't right because if we were doing everything right, according to ethical evidence-based medical practice, then why are our patients, why is the population getting sicker? I mean, that's a good starting point. we were doing everything right according to ethical evidence-based medical practice then why are our patients why is the population getting sicker i mean that's a good starting point yes i have a point here real quick guys but kelly before you get lunch into that just a quick thing

which is i don't know uh kelly if you heard rfk jr's twitter spaces with elon musk but somebody asked him how it was that the left had suddenly the the pharmaceutical industry had suddenly become the darling of the left which which i you and i've been wondering about for quite some time is like how did this happen these they used to hate pharmaceutical and he he went through the whole history it's very interesting listen to rfk because he's he's been around all this and he went through the history history. It's very interesting listening to RFK because he's been around all this. And he went through the history and he said, ultimately, of course, there was the issue with the funding, you know, Margaret Thatcher and Reagan reducing the funding and then pharmaceutical filling in with the money to do research. But he said there was a bigger issue, which was that the

lobbying infrastructure in Washington of big pharma is five times any other industry in the world. And they couldn't pass Obamacare without their participation. And he described what he called as a golden handshake between pharma and the pharmaceutical industry that allowed the pharmaceutical to now not have to negotiate drug prices for Medicare and Medi-Cal. They can just ask whatever price they want for the support of Obamacare. And that was sort of the moment that they became a participant in the policies and politics of the other side. And so that's kind of interesting. Gosh, there were, oh, so he, and he also said, if you recall, when he talked to us was one of the ways he was going to solve this editorial

problem that you guys are digging into was he was going to call in all the major editorial directors of all the major journals and tell them he was going to prosecute them under a RICO law if they did not solve this problem. Right, and I think that that's a unique, novel way of going about it. I think if anyone could do it, Bobby Kennedy could. I think what you're getting into is really some of the unbelievable corruption of group purchasing organizations and pharmacy benefit managers, PBMs and GPOs, what we call in this country, the quote, middlemen that have allowed, if they did in any other industry, what's done in pharmaceuticals, it would go under the name

racketeering. It would be illegal, but it does happen. And Big Pharma owns not only the mainstream media and social media, but they own many of our agencies. And it's a real problem. There's tremendous, tremendous conflict of interest there. And we need to sort it out. Go ahead. Please go ahead. The two points have been raised both by Drew and yourself. So in relation to what you just said about the power of pharmaceutical industries and the control they have, I think I'm somebody that believes in real democracy and people need to be given all the information to make decisions.

What's happened is they have by stealth, kind of behind the scenes, they have increasingly got this sort of level of power and control. So I was in Australia on TV, I've mentioned this before, and on Sky News Australia a week and a half ago, and the presenter, Roman Dean, was shocked to the extent where he says, I don't know whether this is true, Dr. Mottra.

When I told them, and this was published in the BMJ, that 96% of the funding of the Australian regulator, the TGA, comes from pharma. He didn't believe that, but that's factually correct. 65% of the funding of the FDA comes from pharma. 86% of the funding of the regulator of the FDA comes from pharma. 86% of the funding of the regulator in the UK comes from pharma. Now, if you ask most people, right, I think everybody, I've not met a single person, I speak to patients and doctors, they think that's unacceptable. So for me, that tells us that really what's happened is we have

a very basic level, we can talk about the science of it being an ethical in a way because of the conflicts of interest. But from a democratic point of view, it is undemocratic. So we've got undemocratic laws that perpetuate this problem. And therefore, the solution is through real democracy. The other issue Drew raised is very interesting. I've been battling this as well about this left-right divide. You know, just a declaration here. I don't belong to any political party, but my allegiances traditionally in the UK have always been on the left. You know, part of it was because

my father was, you know, a card carrying labor supporter. He was the labor party, which is equivalent of the Democrats in the US national doctor of the year. That's what he got. So he was a passionate campaigner for the NHS. So my allegiance has always been on the left and I've been very much aware that the left have been the ones traditionally that have been the biggest advocates calling out big corporations and their manipulations and excesses. So why? It's so strange here. I found myself in a position the last couple of years where the only people that were calling out or agreeing with me or listening to me and giving me a platform to talk about

what happened with the vaccine were people on the right. So I tried to think about what's happened here. And there's something else to sort of, I think, consider in this debate. Ideologically, the left in general think that the community is more important than the individual, and the right put individual ahead of the community is more important than the individual, and the right put individual

ahead of the community, individual responsibility. What's happened here, the narrative has been captured on the left thinking incorrectly that because vaccines are so good and they're something that we all take traditionally and that we are doing something for the common good, even this narrative that if you take the vaccine, it isn't necessary to protect yourself, but you're going to protect your elderly parents or your grandparents from getting sick. That narrative was captured very effectively so that the left felt this was something really important as a social issue that they need to get behind. Whereas the right, interesting that I thought,

they've always been very pro-corporate, pro-big business. But I think what usurped many people on the right was this, the mandate is that suddenly, we've taken out autonomy and individual responsibility and we're saying that we need to do something. So it's very interesting to see how that has worked out psychologically. But of course, at the root of all the problems is, you know, in my view, I think we've got

psychopathic entities that are really calling the shots and are deceiving both the left and the right on this issue. Well, let me delve a little bit more into exactly what you're talking about here, Dr. Malhotra, I would say most people know that the fundamental concept of medicine is first, do no harm, followed closely by the supporting tenants, the importance of the risk-benefit calculation, and number two, informed consent. Let's talk about how those three things, first do no harm, the risk benefit analysis, and informed consent. How did we somehow, or not we, not the three of us, but the rest of medicine, the rest of the world decide to flush the very basis, the absolute

foundation of medicine for the past three and a half years, particularly with these vaccines? Yeah, so I would bring it back to the basics of what does it mean? What does evidence-based medicine mean? So there's a very elegant analytical framework that we should be using for practicing and teaching medicine, which was published first in the BMJ in 1996 by David Sackett, who's a lead author, called the Evidence-Based Medicine Triad. So I use this framework when I think about

every patient that I meet. And basically what it encompasses is that our duty, our responsibility as doctors is to improve patient outcomes. So that means managing risks, treating illness, relieving suffering. But to do that effectively, we use our clinical experience, our expertise, our knowledge, our clinical intuition over years.

The best available evidence is, so the first component is your individual clinical experience. The second component is using the best available evidence, right, on any intervention, whether it's drug treatment, whether it's a surgery, whether it's a surgery, whether it's organizing a test, whether it's even a lifestyle intervention. But last but not least, what David Sackett said was most important, Kelly, was taking into consideration individual patient preferences and values through informed consent, through

exactly what you said, transparent communication of risks and benefits. So when I give my lectures, when I teach people, I say, well, if you just take a step back, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if there's anything wrong with any of these three components or all of these three components, at best you're gonna get suboptimal outcomes and at worst you're gonna do harm.

And even pre-pandemic, what's happened is the best available evidence has been biased and corrupted by these commercial interests. So the evidence-based medicine, unfortunately, has now become an illusion and has been hijacked by these entities. So what's happening, I think, Kelly, is that many doctors actually probably believe they're adhering to the principles of evidence-based medicine, because as you said earlier, like we were in this position before, they have taken articles published in medical journals as being gospel truth, like biblical truth. They're not questioning it. And that's the issue. Yes, I agree. I agree. So here you sit in Australia today. You talked with Drew earlier on about the draconian approach that the Australians, more than probably anywhere else in the world, maybe other than the vaccines, at least as they pertain to children, for example.

The UK and Australia both did an about face where here in the United States, we're still safe and effective, safe and effective, roll up your sleeve. What happened in Australia and in the UK, do you think that caused them to see these things perhaps more conservatively than we are here in the United States? Yeah, it's a great question, Kelly.

I wonder whether, you know, there were, when you look at the United States, I think around the world, I think if you look at the corporate world, I think the biggest influence of the big corporations is in the US. And that means they have greater power to suppress freedom of information. I don't, you know, other than maybe through some outlets

on the right through Fox, I think a lot of the so-called mainstream media has been captured more in the US. I think that may be a role that has played here because we've managed to somehow get a little bit more of this information out into the mainstream news in the UK and Australia around the potential harms of these vaccines.

That's my observation. I wonder whether that's why the response in the Australian UK has been maybe a little bit ahead of the curve compared to the us gotcha you know we talk a lot about sense go ahead joe i was going to ask i i i'm going to let you ask that question but at some point i do want to get some thoughts from both you guys it i started ruminating uh you know when i was listening to your guys talk about what you're imagining. How do I frame this? How do you feel about the World Health Organization and their One Health Initiative and their new, quote, treaties and these digital health initiatives that we're all going to have to have?

We're going to have to show our papers in order to move across borders. I go ahead and Kelly, ask your question and finish that thought. And maybe we can kind of get dabble in this area, because I imagine you both have some very strong feelings about this. Sure. Let me just I just what we're always going to go just briefly, at least, is that, you know, we talk a lot about censorship and I certainly have been egregiously censored, kicked off Twitter for over a year, banned from YouTube, Facebook, Instagram. And that is one

love insult. And I think it's wrong. And I think it's dangerous. It doesn't hold a candle, however, to the weaponization of our medical boards that we have seen. When you start actually threatening a physician's livelihood, threatening a physician's livelihood, threatening a physician's license. And that has happened across this country. What has it been like in the UK or in Australia with regard to, actually, I mean, this is a la cultural revolution stuff. This is stuff that the Chinese and the North Koreans were famous for, trying to actually destroy people or assassinate them, either in reality or ruin their careers. What has it been like in the UK and Australia with regard to weaponization of the medical complex?

Yeah, I mean, this is corporate medical tyranny, isn't it, Kelly? Australia, I think, has been the worst that I've seen because what happened, what was interesting in Australia was it wasn't just that if you were a healthcare worker and you didn't get vaccinated, you lost your job. They threatened, the medical boards in Australia threatened, this is very interesting, they threatened any doctor

that spoke out in any forum, right, even in giving a lecture, whether it was on social media, if they questioned the narrative at all, even questioned it slightly, they were subject to a new emergency clause that was brought in that they could face immediate, even if they were fully faxed, by the way, they could face immediate suspension of their medical license pending an investigation, not an investigation to potentially suspend. It was almost guilty until proven innocent. And that is extraordinary. That stopped a lot of doctors speaking out. Now, one of the reasons I

came here to Australia, seeing what was going on, I knew because I'm coming from the UK, they can't touch me. You know, they can do whatever they, you know, they can smear me or whatever else, and I could get in the mainstream media, and I could say what a lot of those doctors wanted to say but couldn't. So that was one of the reasons I came here. In the UK, which is interesting, we haven't had that, I mean, there has been some censorship.

There's been people who are fearful of losing their medical license. Before I published my paper in the Journal of Inter-Resistance, a couple of friends of mine said to me, Hossein, if you publish this, just so you know, you're likely to lose your medical license. But I thought to myself, you know,

the truth is more important. I can't sleep at night knowing what I know. And I said, I'm willing to take that risk. And as a result, so far, Kelly, the General Medical Council have not taken action against me despite the fact that there have been numerous complaints by doctors. I've seen it through social media,

I've seen responses from the general medical council saying that they don't wanna interfere with freedom of speech, they don't agree with me, but they don't think I've done anything so far that would question my fitness to practice. And the situation has gone, I mean, this is, I don't know if you're aware of this story, just came out in the medical press in the UK a few days ago.

This is extraordinary. Because, so imagine this, our medical regulator, the GMC, has not taken so far any action against me to investigate me. A group of anonymous doctors in the National Health Service in the UK are suing, are taking action against the General Medical Council

for not taking action against me. Right, I saw that. You really couldn't make this up. For spreading COVID vaccine disinformation, these are the allegations. Me being a conspiracy theorist, which is clearly a known goal because I've been very clear on my advocacy on this.

There's no conspiracy here. These are system failures. So, you know, let's see what happens. But, you know, I'm saying I'm happy for them to bring it on. I mean, if it means I have to be, you know, that I have to defend myself in this way, it's only going to bring it on. I mean, if it means I have to be, you know, that I have to defend myself in this way, it's only gonna get more attention.

We can get all the evidence out there and ultimately the truth will win. So I'm ready to, you know, accept those consequences if we have to go down that route. No, I have personally defended myself against seven formal complaints to the medical board from multiple different states where I hold licenses. I have done so successfully each time, but it is exhausting. It's very time

consuming and emotionally debilitating. We have people like Peter McCullough, who's been threatened with the removal of his board certification. Dr. Merrill Nass was remanded to psychiatric evaluation in this country for prescribing hydroxychloroquine. I mean, this is a lot, as I said, there's very little daylight between the United States and North Korea when you start remanding people to psychiatric facilities for their behavior. And again, it's generally in this country, largely anonymous and has nothing to do with the way you treat patients. It always has to do with what you've said publicly. And again, it's generally in this country, largely anonymous and has nothing to do with the way you treat patients. It always has to do with what you've said publicly. And it's interesting that you fled to, or not fled to, but went to Australia where you could speak openly. We just, we had a conversation with Pierre Corey the other day. He is currently

practicing on an American Indian reservation where he is immune from their mandates because the American Indians in this country have sovereign immunity on their reservation land, on their sacred land, and they don't have to play by the rules that the federal government sets up. So people are finding lots of workarounds. I've always said people did not end up being physicians because they couldn't think of anything better to do and because they aren't smart enough to fight their way out of a paper bag. So good for you. What many of these people do, including yourself, I know it's tough, but I was reminded often by the words of Martin Luther King. If you can't drive, you run.

If you can't run, you walk. If you can't run, you walk. If you can't walk, you crawl. But keep moving forward. And we have to keep moving forward. We are here to fight for patience, for scientific integrity. It's tough. There are slings and arrows coming our way. But ultimately, I believe, honestly, I have faith in humanity. I have faith in the truth. And I think there is light at the end of the tunnel, but we have to lead people through this. And also it means, if our enemies go low, we go high. We take the moral high ground.

We have to have empathy for many of these clinicians who are sending, even for me, we get upset and angry, but I genuinely believe that those people think actually that they're doing the right thing. And they're probably coming from a place of fear. And I think if we treat them with empathy and we take the higher moral ground, I think that this will all dissipate with time.

Well, let's move in these few minutes to Drew's question. I know I've got some thoughts on this WHO treaty, but I'd be very interested in hearing your take on this. You're so thoughtful about everything that I'd love to hear your thoughts. Yeah, I'm actually glad you raised this WHO thing. So I obviously, as doctors, I want to trust the WHO, right? I think over the years, WHO have done great things. But the problem, again, is this is captured by industry. So there's a couple of key facts here. One is the former director general of the WHO several months ago, Margaret Chan, and I think this was a cry for help in an interview said 70% of the funding of the World Health

Organization comes with strings attached. We know we now know the second largest funder of the World Health Organization is Bill Gates, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Now, that's a problem, you know, because he has huge conflicts of interest. The foundation is heavily invested stocks in McDonald's, Coca-Cola and the pharmaceutical industry. The two big issues in public health in the Western world are the influences of the food industry and how diet related diseases being fueled by their manipulations and also by pharmaceutical industry.

So that's Bill Gates. He made half a billion dollars on investments in the COVID vaccines. This man should not be having any influence in the World Health Organization. So what do we conclude from that, Kelly Drew? In my view, and I've been public about this, I said that right now, as long as the WHO is also captured by these commercial interests, they cannot be trusted. No government, no member of the public, no doctor around the world should trust the WHO while they continue to be captured by industry funding. I think

that's very, very clear. And we have to keep hammering that message again, again and again. I think also, to be honest, I think we look back during the handling of the pandemic, I think they also showed incompetence, right? Because we knew from the very beginning the World Health Organization already had a plan that if something like this, this sort of virus was going to be unleashed on the world, lockdowns were not going to work. And they changed their view purely because of China. China convinced the world that lockdowns were the way forward, that they contained the virus in Wuhan. We knew it spread throughout China.

And again, we've seen the devastating consequences now of this. So I don't think the World Health Organization have a good track record in the last few years in terms of public health and world health, not at all. And therefore, I don't think they can be trusted. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that, you know, I have long said that the WHO, in my estimation, is the long arm of the Chinese Communist Party. Dr. Tedros, who is not actually a medical doctor, has a somewhat sordid past, and I don't think he has the best interest necessarily, certainly the sovereignty of this

country at heart when he's making decisions on behalf of the WHO. Furthermore, as you said, I think they showed a great deal of incompetence. I guess the broader question for me is, is there such a thing as global public health? Given the things that you and I have talked about, that the way that we treat people has to take into account their individual, their tolerance for risk, their tolerance for individual sovereignty, for their civil liberties. Is there such a thing in your mind as global public health? Yeah, Kelly, I think we have to use both. So I always come back to something called that when I think about population health,

as doctors, clinicians, we want to improve our individual patient outcomes, but we're all interconnected. And if population health deteriorates, then it's going to come back and bite us, right? Because we all rely on each other for different things. And healthcare systems are going gonna be under pressure. And we don't live in cocoons. We can't, I don't think personally, maybe people may have a different view, but I don't think we can individually lead productive lives

if the world around us is burning. So that means I think there is a responsibility we have towards the community. But also if you look at the CDC's health impact pyramid, and again, this is, I think, well established, I don't think many people would disagree with this. The environment, so if you look at individual, patient contact or education, for example,

when you look at the impact on population health, it's at the top of the pyramid, has the least impact on population health. The biggest impact comes from, we call socioeconomic factors, I would call it the biopsychosocial determinants of health, it's at the top of the pyramid, has the least impact on population health. The biggest impact comes from what we call socioeconomic factors, I would call it the biopsychosocial determinants of health, but also the environment, right? The environment also has probably the biggest impact on our health. And we look historically, for example, at tobacco control, that wasn't one, the curbing in smoking cigarettes, which was 50% of the American US population was smokers, adult smokers in 1970,, which was 50% of the American US population was

smokers, adult smokers in 1970, now it's less than 20%. That big decline, which had a really important role to play in public health, didn't happen from education alone. Education played a very small role. The single biggest factor was actually taxation of cigarettes, public smoking bans. So that's where you need government, of course. And also government there are there to provide laws. I mean, I think we have to have this debate

in a probably more nuanced way. At what stage do you feel government is interfering too much in our lives? Right, I agree, but I would alert both of you. Please watch the conversation I had with Michelle Bachman yesterday. In this new treaty, civil liberties and rights are relinquished, as well as individual national sovereignties are relinquished to the authority of the World Health Organization. And in relinquishing, two things are being put in place.

One is a global digital health monitoring system that we will all be subjected to in order to move about. And number two, they are pushing something called One Health, which holds that animals have equivalent health rights to humans, and their major initiative is going to be climate change as the ultimate public health problem. So when all that kicks in, please, guys, be aware there's a tsunami coming. We have to push back on this. Absolutely. I agree.

I think it's great. Go to exitthehood.com. Yeah, and I guess that's really what I meant. In fact, there's another quote, if you don't mind. I love my quotes. So if you don't mind. I love my quotes. So if you don't mind, Drew, you just reminded me of another great quote from Martin Luther King. It is the moral obligation of every citizen to disobey unjust laws. And this is what's happening. So we cannot comply with this.

Amen. I agree. And that's really what I meant when I said, is there such a thing as global health is that if you have to abdicate the sovereignty of your own nation in order to do this. And your civil rights. Yeah. Because I think that we have a different, we have a different expectation here in this country or in the UK or in Australia than they might have in other countries. And I don't see this as being something that we can tolerate here. And I agree with you. Civil disobedience is where we need to go with this.

So I know we're looking down the clock. I asked you to stay with us for an hour and you've graciously done so, Dr. Mahadra. Thank you. Thank you for doing this. Any last thoughts, anything? I wish I could come to your upcoming conference with Naomi and Ed. That sounds really- Well, I'll send you the link because I think it's a reasonable time for live streaming on Saturday, but it's going to be available for 30 days so people can watch it back.

And I'll make sure I send you the link and hopefully we'll put it up there. I think one last thought is I think let's have hope. I think there's a lot of good leadership around the world. I am encouraged by Robert Kennedy Jr. I think although it's 18 months away, I think from your elections, I think he started very well. I think the mainstream media attacking him is only going to fuel his support. I mean, let's learn from what happened with Trump. I think a lot of people couldn't believe when Trump got in, despite all of the mainstream media attacking him. I think Robert Kennedy Jr. comes from a place of integrity and ethics. He has a great family. You know, I think he's a chip off the old block. I think his father was a remarkable man.

And I think he's somebody genuinely, if he gets into power, I think he can be a huge, play a huge role in solving many of these problems and issues. I agree with you. I agree with you 100%. Drew? Yes, thank you, guys. I see him always go. I guess it's morning there tomorrow for you, so have a good day. I think that's right, or is it nighttime? I'm getting confused. No, it's morning. It's morning? I get confused. It's morning. Morning, morning, tomorrow.

And, uh, yeah, good. And if you're ever out in California, please let us know. We'd love to hook up with you somewhere. Well, maybe we'll talk about it again. I'm going to come over to the States in August, cause I'm making a documentary film called first do no farm and ready to highlight all of these structural issues and give solutions. So yeah, we're crowdfunding for that in a moment. People can look at that.

It's called nofarmbfilm.com is the website. And we're going to be interviewing some good names. John Abramson from Harvard has done more than anybody in terms of drug industry litigation. Jay Bhattacharya, Robert Kennedy Jr. So we're going to make a really strong documentary film and we're going to be filming this summer a lot of the time in California. So hopefully i'll get to meet you drew all right we 100 and kelly thank you as always uh i'll say goodbye to dr mohantra and kelly you and i have uh coming up next week is it uh shoot i'm blanking on who's coming up you didn't take any calls today

uh i can if you wish but i'm going to tell you who's coming up in one second there it is jay uh joel adepo joel adepo next week and then tom rents in a couple weeks after that uh mark morano and uh tom rents is going to tell us about the the um espionage activity that is represented in the eco health alliance hopefully he'll tip his hat on that a little bit uh ke, do you have a minute to take some calls? So I got an email today about the exitthewho.com link, and I clicked on it and I went and signed the petition, even though it said until May whatever. So I would just suggest everybody who's listening to go ahead and sign the petition,

share with your friends, and then contact your congressman. They give you all your people and where to contact them on that website. So I think that's like the best thing we can do at this point. Kelly, you want to take a couple of calls, take five or 10 minutes, take a couple of calls.

You up for that? Sure. All right. This is John, who I believe I've had here before. John, come on up. I think John is from Massachusetts. If it's who I believe I've had here before. John, come on up. I think John is from Massachusetts, if it's who I think it is. Give him a second to set up here.

Hello, can you hear me? Hey, John, what's up? Hey, we can. Hey, thanks for taking my call again. it's been a number of months since we spoke we now have uh we now have minnesota data we got a good crew working on it um you know that i've had the uh 500 000 massachusetts test certificates analyzed them uh going along what you said about strokes and neurological. All the G codes are way up. 9935, a bunch of others. I won't get too much into the stuff your audience doesn't know the numbers of, but the strokes that I've

correlated, it'll be in my book. It's coming out within 30 days. I won't try to plug it right here, unless you want me to, but it'll have a lot of data. I do. Go ahead. Go ahead. Why don't I want to get more information out? If people want to read about or see what you're getting into, by all means, and I'd love to talk to you more about it here, for that matter, but go ahead, tell us what it is. Okay, great.

Well, I write under the name Coquandichon, which means naughty dog or bad dog in French, because I have a little black dog, and he's cute. So it just so happens, serendipitously that Kocanda Shion carries the initials CDC. So the name of my book is The Real CDC. And what I do is provide information that the CDC has not provided. It's unbundled. When I say unbundled, I mean, I don't have acute and chronic renal failure together with a Simpson's paradox that cancels the signals.

I give you them individually, and I show you that acute renal failure is up 100%. Not only in Massachusetts, but the next book, The Real CDC Does Minnesota, will also show you that it's up over 100% in Minnesota as well. That's basically murder. John, do me a favor and explain to people how you got into this and why you know what you're doing. I don't think Kelly's heard your story yet. What happened to you in Massachusetts? Let me just say before you go on, Kelly, I was

complaining at one point about how capricious our death certificates are, how we fill them out. We're not trained to do it. They won't accept anything except the heart stop. That's the only thing they'll accept or else you're obliged to send it to the coroner. I mean, it's just so ridiculous. And John called in, I think on the heels of that and had a story. So go ahead, John. Uh, yeah. So, uh, I don't know how far I want to

go back. I'll just say I'm an engineer. So, you know, I like numbers. And I lost my son in 2018 and I was depressed sitting on the couch. Didn't work for years. COVID hit and I just wanted to prove the truth. And so I got into the data, found out almost immediately that CDC had changed some historical data in order to fit the COVID narrative. And that kind of sent me into a tizzy. And I knew that the only way to get the truth is to get record level source data. And that's my sent me into a tizzy. And I knew that the only way to get the truth is to get record-level source data. And that's my terminology for it. If you don't get record-level source data, you're getting de-identified data that's bundled. And they can fool every doctor and researcher in the world by putting different data sets together.

And that's basically what they've been doing to everybody. So I've got record-level source data. What do I do with it? I didn't know what to do with it. I'm not a doctor. So I started analyzing individual codes and I found that 2020 was a year of excess respiratory deaths. And all of a sudden it switches over in 2021 when they started vaccinating. Coincidentally, everything switched over to more excess in the D codes, which is blood, and the I codes, which is circulatory. I call it the symptom spectrum profile of deaths within a society.

You can profile and create. I'm an engineer, right? So electrical engineers. I create waveforms. And from the waveforms, I can extract signals. When you extract what's normal for the past five years from 2015 to 2019, subtract that going forward, and what's left over is the signal. Well, the signal changed from respiratory to circulatory. Like I said, it also changed and dropped 16 years in average age,

which is just horrendous because you're talking about 16 times the life years lost. Yeah, so that's what I've been doing. And I got Massachusetts and a very, really cool woman in Minnesota that I now consider a friend, wants to remain anonymous. We now have 400,000 death certificates from Minnesota. The same signals are occurring from acute renal failure, but not the same from other things like cardiac arrest, cardiac arrhythmia, post-hemorrhagic anemia, trauma cytopenia, and so forth. It's different.

The timing of entry in the – it's a seasonal respiratory virus. And, Dr. Drew, you're right. You know, COVID does cause the same blood forming organ issues, clotting, bleeding, things like that, strokes. It does. It does. But it's got to be close to two orders of magnitude greater from the vaccine. They jump off the charts in 21 and 22. And it's in younger people.

So too much to talk about on this call right now, but we could talk for a while. John, do I have your contact info? Yeah, I mean, I can email again. It's contact at Dr. Drew or something like that. I got an email.

I see his Twitter, John Godoz. You have him on Twitter. But get what you can. I want to hear Kelly try to pronounce my name again. You want to hear why? That was Susan. That was Susan.

Trying to pronounce his last name. Oh, Susan. Yes, it's R in the end. It's Bodian. I'm sure it's left over from or somehow the school is also a bastardization of your name so it's probably Bowdoin

No, it says senior at the end and I was trying to pronounce that John, I want you to actually put together a presentation, like a way of presenting the data. I want to go over it with you and I want to bring you back on and do it for the program. Okay. Yeah, I've got, if you type my first and last name into Rumble, 30 videos will come up.

I've done podcasts all over. A million people have seen what I've done. I've presented to over a thousand doctors, lawyers, and researchers. So I'm ready to go whenever you want. All right. We got to kind of keep it on a certain level to make sure people can digest it and stuff for purposes of something like this. But I definitely want to bring you in and do that.

How dare you, Drew? No, no, no. I mean. Rumble is offended. No, no, no. No offense to anybody. It's true. I understand.

I don't. I understand what you're saying i get it i don't understand half the stuff kelly says so right and then uh and kelly has good kelly is very skilled at this she knows right where to take it so i want to make sure i want to make sure we get it now do the nerdy or the better brings ratings've got to remember that. People go back and listen twice. Yeah, it does. The people lean into stuff. But I want to make sure it has to follow in a certain way for people to be able to follow. So, John, I'm going to get back to you.

We're going to do that. Gator, you are a speaker. Let's see what you want to say here. Go ahead. Our Gator Nation, I guess it is. You're concerned about Bulldog fans and you're a Gator. I'm not quite sure which school you're from. Hello?

There you are. Hey. Oh, there we have Dr. Drew. This is Rob, big Hawk versus Wolf fan. So I just wanted to, I can't believe I got through to you. You really like hit me hard when you were on their podcast talking about your struggles. I don't want to say with depression, but you were kind of feeling melancholy blue. You know, after having COVID, I've had it three times. I've never been vaxxed. So maybe I have super antibodies or whatever. But when you started talking and saying

I'm paraphrasing, I don't know, I don't feel right, whatever. It just hit me hard. And as a former, you know, I loosely know Jason and Tony, but as a former skater and college athlete, um, had several concussions. Um, those are many, I can't remember. Uh, can you speak to that like with COVID and cause it seemed like you were talking to me. It seemed like COVID kind of had some type of, uh, uh, uh, an impact on that. If, if I remember, I'm going to put you in the, in the, uh, back in the audience and

talk to you with Kelly. If I remember what I was talking about, I'm, I'm a little bit prone to depression. I definitely have an anxiety disorder, but I noticed COVID behaved like a head injury to me. It felt like I'd been hit in the head. And in terms of my fogginess and my memory difficulties, and then some lingering mood things that came after that, as well as decreased stamina, decreased energy and things. And that's a post-concussive syndrome. And it's when I concluded that, and I started seeing evidence at the time, it's now three years ago or two years ago, two and a half years ago, that there was evidence of COVID being in neurological, you know, sort of

symptoms being caused by microvascular injury. And Kelly, you and I have talked for quite some time about the endothelitis we think is going on from the spike protein. And of course, that is a global process in the brain. And now we know something about what has gone on there. And yeah, chronic traumatic encephalopathy is a real thing. Post-concussive syndrome is a real thing. Head injury, global injuries of all type have protein manifestations and they can wax and wane for years, and they can progress. And it is something really very important for you to have evaluated. Kelly, I imagine you feel the same. Oh, I do.

And there's no question that COVID is not anomalous in this. There are many viruses that can do this, many bad viruses, chronic illnesses. Just severe illness period yeah just severe illness just severe illness uh can cause that brain fog and the way you interpret it the question is in psychology there's a the the lock theory which is that certain physiologic symptoms really are subject to the way that you interpret them. For example, if your heart rate goes up, if all of a sudden I'm sitting here and my heart rate goes from my resting heart rate of 60, say, to all of a sudden 120, I will interpret that based on my surroundings. I could interpret

that as excitement. I could interpret it as fear. I could interpret it as sexual arousal. It's going to depend on what is in my surrounding. When you feel certain things, brain fog, for example, after having had an illness where you've been indoors, you haven't felt well, you didn't go to work, you missed a lot of social activities, whatever, you are more likely to interpret that as depression. Interpret that as I'm unhappy versus the way you might interpret it otherwise as I'm just tired. For example, if you had that exact same feeling after studying for an exam, you might interpret that physiologic symptom differently. And so I think what's happened is a lot of people

do experience after a bad illness, their interpretation of this brain fog is depression, is that I'm unhappy, I don't feel right in my life, rather than just, if you give people the okay and say, it's totally normal to feel that way. Many people have prolonged fatigue, difficulty concentrating or whatever it is after a viral illness, then at least if nothing else, it lifts from them that heavy blanket of that I'm depressed. And it allows them to see that symptom through a different light, if that makes sense. Yes, it does. And I would remind everybody that Kelly was a psychologist before she became a physician. And I was just reminded, I was just thinking of the old Chicago Bears quarterback. I'm blanking on his name.

It's not coming to me. But he has had some chronic traumatic symptomatology, and he's been getting a lot of extremely good treatment with marked benefit. And so the point being is there's a lot to be done here, a lot to be done, and you shouldn't just, whether it's exercising more or putting yourself in environments where you're less likely to interpret your experience, your symptomatology as, in fact, depression, or if indeed it is something related to the head injuries you were describing and it needs some sort of down-the-road evaluation and treatment. It all is highly, highly manageable. And just to sort of sit with it is not a great idea, it seems to me.

Right. Somebody mentioned the spike protein. Can that do that to you? Well, it's what we were talking about is causing the endothelitis and the global brain injury. In terms of the spike protein causing depression per se, you know, I have seen data that shows there's a little bit of injury to the striatum, that the striatum seems to be particularly sort of vulnerable. There's no question, Drew. We are seeing evidence of particularly following vaccination. post-vaccination, you would assume that it can happen to some extent, you know, post-infection, but deposition of spike proteins in certain areas of the brain, also deposition of lipid nanoparticles

that are found in the vaccines in certain parts of the brain have been highly linked, not only to depression, but to florid psychotic breaks. You know, a number of people, parents who have reported that their adolescent children have suffered a psychotic breaks. You know, a number of people, of parents who have reported that their adolescent children have suffered a psychotic break following vaccination. And these things we are linking primarily if you talk to people like Ryan Cole, who's had the advantage of doing, you know, biopsies, brain biopsies, and seeing tissue biopsies from the brain following COVID and following vaccination, they are seeing deposition of spike proteins within certain areas of the brain that could easily account

for increases in depression. Both in the myelin and in the neurons. It's very, very protean and strange. And by the way, it was McMahon. Thank you, people on Rumble Rants. I imagine the restream got the same thing. McMahon was the, yes, you guys are there too. McMahon was the name of the quarterback I was drinking with.

And the striatum is a very strange part of the brain. It's right in the critical communication area, but it's this very small region that we don't really know what it does. It's intrigued me for quite some time. It shows up in almost every psychiatric and psychological and interpersonal neurobiology physiology I read about. There is the striatum right in the middle of things. Of course, it has protean manifestations. Kelly, I'm going to wrap this up.

Thank you for spending extra time answering some questions for our callers. And as always, we appreciate you and your being here. And next week and the week after, we have Joseph Latipo, the Surgeon General from the state of Florida, who we both admire greatly. And we'll see how his thinking has evolved and how he's been able to fend off the critics, which keep swirling around him. Yes. Up on the board here also, we have Tom Rents

coming in the 28th. Jay Bhattacharya in here tomorrow, June 12th. Lionel and Mark Changhisi, is that how you pronounce his name? And we will see you all tomorrow for Jay Bhattacharya at three o'clock Pacific time. See you then. Sounds great.

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