Ask Dr. Drew - How Can We Protect Women’s Sports? w/ Robby Starbuck & Volleyball Athlete Sia LiiLii on Trump’s “Keep Men Out Of Women’s Sports” EO – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 458

Episode Date: February 23, 2025

President Trump recently signed the “Keep Men Out Of Women’s Sports” Executive Order which prohibits transgender people from competing in athletic programs designated for women. Volleyball athlete Sia LiiLii was on the front lines of the battle – and even received a visit from Tulsi Gabbard when she refused to compete against a transgender player. Robby Starbuck is a film director, political activist, and documentary filmmaker. His documentary “The War On Children” garnered over 60 million views in 2024. Before entering politics, he built a successful production company directing Oscar-winning actors and major music artists. The son of Cuban immigrants, Starbuck advocates for conservative policies and corporate reform, leading successful campaigns to modify policies at major corporations including Boeing, Toyota, and Walmart. He helped pass significant legislation in Tennessee regarding child protection and criminal justice. Find more at https://robbystarbuck.com and follow him at https://x.com/robbystarbuck Sia LiiLii is a Senior Co-Captain of the University of Nevada Reno Volleyball team and graduating senior studying Journalism with an emphasis in Public Relations and Communications. In October 2024, she led her team in a significant stand regarding competitive fairness in women’s collegiate volleyball. Find more at https://instagram.com/s.yeaah and https://x.com/SiaLiiLii 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We are going to tiptoe into some controversial territory today. It's good if I have a microphone to do so. Robbie Starbuck joins us at Robbie Starbuck, R-O-B-B-Y, Starbuck on X, RobbieStarbuck.com. He has been in the past a film director, a documentary filmmaker. His documentary, The War on Children, got over 60 million views in 2024, and he's been very politically active more recently. We're gonna also be interviewing Sia Lee-E Lee-E,

a senior co-captain of the University of Nevada, Reno volleyball team. She is studying journalism with an emphasis in PR, and she led her team in a significant stand regarding competitive fairness in women's volleyball. We will get into that and more right after this. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. Psychopaths start this way. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography,

PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin, ridiculous. I'm a doctor for, where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. You have trouble, you can't stop,

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It's a new nutritional C-15, pentadecanoic acid it's called. The deficiency that we are developing for C-15 creates something called the cellular fragility syndrome. This is the first nutritional deficiency syndrome to be discovered in 75 years and may be affecting us in many ways and as many as one in three of us. This is an important breakthrough. Take advantage of it. Go to fatty15.com slash Dr. Drew to receive 15% off a 90-day starter kit subscription Or use code dr. Drew a checkout for that 15 off or just go to our website dr. Do.com slash fatty15 And welcome back we're going to talk to robbie starbuck first and then welcome see you in here in a few minutes robbie is a as I said a film director documentarian of the war on children was a

in here in a few minutes. Robbie is a, as I said, a film director, a documentarian in the war on children was a very widely viewed documentary. RobbieStarBuck.com and Robbie Starbuck on X. Robbie, welcome to the program. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it, Dr. Drew. But before we get into the women's sports

and the war on children and these sorts of issues, what else is in your crosshairs these days? I mean, if I look at your X thread, what do you, what are you activated by? Yeah, well, if you look behind me, we've got these trophies. All these companies who've had woke policies in DEI over the past eight months,

we've just been exposing all of these crazy policies in major corporations. And as a result of our activism, these companies have been rolling back these policies. So the two you see behind me were the first two that we took on which were Tractor Supply and John Deere. And those were incredibly successful test cases that proved sort of our thesis

that because the Overton window had shifted so wildly in the sort of George Floyd 2020 era, that if you just injected a little bit of sanity and you started with the companies that primarily relied on consumers in red states, you would slowly be able to shift that Overton window back and it worked. So at this point we've shifted companies, we started with those ones like Tractor Supply and John Deere, but now we're at the point where we just shifted, you know, McDonald's and Metta and Accenture and Walmart and, you know, Nissan, Toyota. So we're shifting these big companies now that really serve everybody just to bring them back to a place

where sanity once again rules the day. And that's the goal of the whole thing. We don't need them to take on my politics or my ideology, but just a sane center neutral where corporations no longer get involved in divisive subjects. So for those who may not be aware, I don't know if everyone knows this or not, but the Overton window is sort of the window within which it's acceptable to have conversation from a socio-political perspective.

Is that a good way of describing Overton? Yeah, no, that's fair. I think it's sort of the window of acceptable conversation is the simplest way to put it. And we had entered this year after George Floyd, where really everybody was terrified of being branded a racist in the corporate world. And also I think beyond the corporate world,

it's why you had people tripping over themselves to post black squares on their pages. everybody was terrified of being branded a racist in the corporate world. And also, I think beyond the corporate world, that's why you had people tripping over themselves to post black squares on their, their pages. Um, you know, and in the same token, same reason that we've got a majority of the country that if you ask them how many black males are killed every year by police, they don't get remotely close. The vast majority of them believe it's over 10,000 a year. The number is typically under 30. And when you have that sort of disparity in just the facts, it tells you that there's a level of conversation and the truth that's not happening because people are afraid to

have it. And so it's important to bring it back to a place where we're making decisions based off of merit, off of actual analytical facts, off of the statistics. And I think that that's where we're pushing things back toward. Yeah, it's in fact that issue that converted Dave Rubin from being really a very extremely liberal sort of point of view to being who Dave Rubin is today.

It was his confrontation with those data. It was so shocking to him that he started looking around at some of the other data. But it also reminds me of some of the craziness around people's assessment of the potential fatality risk of COVID, say for a 40 year old, which was approaching zero. And when people were asked,

there was all kinds of conflict within families about this. And what my peers found when they went in and asked the, say the father of a 30 year old son, who was demanding that his son get a vaccine. When you asked that father what he thought his risk was of COVID, of dying to his 30 year old son, he would say, and repeat, but we all experienced this 50, 60% fatality rate,

which was, I mean, such a grotesque, absurd representation of the truth, which begs the issue. And this is kind of what I wanted to ask you. And by the way, I would argue that this kind of, you said, you know, that they were, people were falling all over themselves, not to be called racist, but I think this phenomenon, and I'm going to use certain languages,

we will move along here, started well before that. I mean, I really felt it coming on during the Me Too movement, but particularly Me Too, and I'm going to use this word now, I saw hysteria starting to take foot take hold Where I remember telling people I go there is no You're gonna get in trouble here because there's this movement's gonna have a problem because there's no New process people are just guilty period off with their head and that was you know, not to Keep taking my historical references,

that's back to the Committee for Public Safety in 1789, or 1793, I guess it was by then. The French had that experience. But what do you imagine happened to us? Do you have a larger theory about, or was the, you know, was the, our tech overlords, were they adjusting our attitudes and manipulating us? Or was the, were the three letter agencies in there doing something because they had turned their policies or their strategies for color revolutions inward all of a sudden, as opposed to externally as they had throughout American history? You have a theory. sudden, as opposed to externally as they had throughout American history. You have a theory.

Yeah, I think it's pieces and elements of some of the things you just said, but I would say most centrally the people responsible for the fact that most Americans, if you went and polled, believe that so many more unarmed black males are killed by police than the actual facts bear out, that so many more believed that the fatality rate of COVID was something like 50% and that their 30 year old or 10 year old healthy child needed COVID vaccines in boosters. The same one that said during me too, you don't need any due process. If somebody comes out and they accuse anybody of anything, it means they did it automatically. Okay. So assume the worst about everybody,

the same a hundred percent in the same people are responsible in every one of those cases. And it's the legacy media. The legacy media has lied and pumped people with so much propaganda for so long that it has affected every other segment of culture. So it affects academia, it affects everything else. And at the top line of media, then you've got the people who are trying to affect what comes out of culture. So it affects academia, it affects everything else. And at the top line of media, then you've got the people who are trying to affect what comes out of that. So what they're

telling people, and that includes intelligence agencies, that includes some global apparatuses, like the World Health Organization and things like that. But it's all laundered through that media apparatus. And the greatest thing I think that you could pull out silver lining from COVID is that it was so egregious, they lied so much about so many clear details that you could pull out silver lining from COVID is that it was so egregious. They lied so much about so many clear details that anybody could see was a lie that the legacy media finally lost the trust of the vast majority of not just people in America, but across the globe. Because it's like once you reach that point where you tell people you need to deny the

evidence of your eyes and ears, that's the point where people start to go, that's a bridge too far. And that's exactly what happened because we just all saw too clearly that when they were telling us what they were telling us that it was just not true. Yeah, it's funny. And now we have Deborah Burks going around on the media

or at least on some more alternative media going, we never thought the vaccine was going to stop COVID. We never thought it was going to prevent infection. I mean, these things, I mean, exact opposite things that she was saying, and she demanded the world be shut down on behalf of. It's just astonishing that the media allows her to go around and walk around and say these things without assailing her. But I agree with you in the sense that when I saw COVID coming on, I thought the whole thing was a media induced hysteria. I was furious that the media was out there capturing eyes and capturing attention by panicking people. That's what I saw going on.

But to push back on your point a little bit, when I got canceled, I got canceled through X, I got canceled through social media. And we know that in social media, that's where the government was exerting its influence. So I really feel like there were sort of, I don't want to say an empty platitude, like a perfect storm, but there were multiple features that frankly, COVID has laid bare for us, thankfully, that we now can look and go, oh shit, there are there is the Twitter files, there is what the legacy media was doing. There is what Deborah Birx was doing and what she is saying. I mean, it's just, and there is USAID and there is all

this crazy money being spent on nothing. We can, it's like, there it is, we can see it now. So it was like, to me, sort of, if I almost feels like the, you know, how certain, how when things grow economically, they kind of grow slowly and like a tumor, they grow slowly and then they grow fast at the end. And then all at once. I kind of feel like this may have been, yeah. And I always quote Hemingway,

one of his characters was asked, what happened, how did you go bankrupt? He said, well, it was slow and then it was fast. And that's the way things kind of evolve economically and biologically. And I'm beginning to wonder whether or not something had been brewing for like the last 60 years. economically and biologically. And I'm beginning to wonder whether or not something had been brewing for like the last 60 years.

And that would feel like to me, like the intelligence agencies on the blob that Mike Benz talks about so much. What do you think? Yeah, Mike is right. There's a big element of that. And I mean, you essentially have to understand at this point, there's so much evidence out there

that they were running the censorship Apparatuses for a very very long time and the most disgusting part about it If it's not disgusting enough already is that we were paying for it, right? And so those apparatus is we're not just seeking to silence us They were seeking to control the narrative entirely and so they did that through every means not just the legacy media So like you said when I say legacy media I almost include Facebook and, you know, all those big tech companies in it, including even search, you know, results like Google, because they essentially became a purveyor of media

where if you're searching for something about the news, they're deciding what they want you to think and what they want you to know. And this is something I taught my kids from a very young age. If we ever search something on the Internet, be aware that a narrative is being shaped in what results that they give you. So you wanna look for the opposing view on everything and try to find the holes, right?

And so, you know, I think that that's definitely something we're continuing to fight through even today, because if you look at just the number of people who can see the evidence of the USAID stuff, and they say, oh no, they didn't waste any money. I mean, it's incredible. There's still a segment of people who can see the evidence of the USAID stuff. And they say, oh no, they didn't waste any money. I mean, it's incredible. There's still a segment of people responsible for this at a lot of the legacy media organizations

to push these ideas so that people think that reality just isn't happening. That's the strangest thing, how people can be against streamlining government, dealing with fraud and abuse. I mean, why you would be against that is government, dealing with fraud and abuse. I mean, why you would be against that is the oddest thing in the world. But I don't see where being on the side of censorship

or fraud and abuse ever turns out well in the history books. I just would love an example of that, but I don't think there is such a thing. But I've been thinking that, and you're kind of the perfect person for me to have this conversation with. We'll get into the other stuff in a minute, but I just and you're kind of the perfect person for me to have this conversation with. We'll get into the other stuff in a minute, but I just, I was kind of looking forward

to this conversation in this area. I feel like the American experiment of the government, you know, of the governed, you know, by the governed, for the governed, sort of got out of hand in the 60s and 70s and has remained out of hand since and it started becoming the tyrannical forces that government always becomes. Where they're gonna tell us how to live,

they're just gonna get too involved in our life. The opposite, it's like this was what the founding fathers was worried about. This is what we'd always been warned about. This is why our government was set up the way it was, but something happened in here or the kinds of organizations or the advent of technologies and media got out of hand and it's time now for a correction. But it really, I really think it is a fundamental miscarriage of the principles of American experiment.

Am I wrong? Convince me I'm wrong. You're not wrong. I can't convince you you're wrong because the truth is very few people in America fully understand the mindset of our founders today. And that's really sad. And I say that about even some people

who agree with me politically on a lot of things and they just haven't read the actual work, the writings of our founders, who by the way, it's just incredible how well these men wrote at the time. It's stuff that you don't see people write today, and these are guys who didn't go to school in many cases, and they write the most eloquent things about what liberty actually means. You know, the seal on Thomas Jefferson's official letters and everything like that, it was that rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

That was actually considered to be the motto of the United States of America too, but it was on his seal. And I think it sends a message about who our founders were in total, because that was sort of something that you could find as an underpinning of the ideology

for most of the founders, right? Was that you need to, you know, rebel against tyrants, that you should not obey authority if it gets corrupt and tyrannical. And essentially, you know, this goes back to a basic principle when you talk about the 60s, 70s, things kind of growing out of control and becoming a blob. What's the absolute power corrupts absolutely. And it was around that time period where they realized there could be a total consolidation of power between

all of the different cultural institutions and that their power was so vast that they could really dominate everybody. And so once they realized that, yeah, grew out of control, it became that blob, it became that tyrannical control scheme that our founders feared. And so my great hope for this, this next generation for my kids is that, you know, they're inspired by the fact that we're living through a second American revolution. They're inspired by seeing great men and women do hard things and that they adopt the mindset

that our founders had. And that once again, you know, the country reawakened can be inherited by a generation that believes that you should rebel against tyrants. Is this a surprise for you that you're having to stand up and take and discuss these things at this stage of your life, or did you always imagine, or did you get radicalized by some of the excesses or clarified, maybe I should say? I think leading up to this year, I was just sad that I had to do it because I love this country so much.

And the sadness is really born from the fact that, you know, my mom and my grandparents, they already fled communism in Cuba. They lost everything they ever worked for. And so being raised to love this country so much and to understand how blessed I was to have the American dream at my fingertips, if I so chose to reach out and grab it, even though my mom came here with no money, penniless refugee, right? But I knew that opportunity existed in America. To know that and then to see the country turn towards something so dark,

so close to what stole Cuba from my family and everything they ever worked for, it made me sad to see that people could sort of lose perspective about how lucky we are to be in this country. However, over the last year, I really sort of lose perspective about how lucky we are to be in this country. However, over the last year, I really sort of became inspired because I realized that America, when we're down and out,

when things just seem like there's no hope, and I knew a lot of people who were like, there's no hope left, you know, we're just, we're resigned to being taken over by this leftist blob, and they're gonna rule over us for 60 years. And that's just that. And hopefully you can keep your own family safe and mitigate, you know,

all of the damage from it. Um, I realized that every time in California, yeah, when we reached that point, exceptional people step up out of nowhere and they do hard things. And I think that sometimes it takes having your back against the wall to, to realize how lucky you are and to say, you know, I'm going to stand up for this because I want my kids to be as lucky as I was. And so at this point, I'm heartened and I feel inspired. And I think hopefully the mission over the next few years will be shifted to one where it says, hey, we can never get complacent.

We all need to be eagle-eyed about all of this and redouble our efforts to have a sane country to reawaken the American dream, because if we don't, we could fall right back into what we just escaped. You know, it's interesting. My Cuban friends and co-citizens are always the one most acutely aware of how much can be lost and how quickly and how mortified they are that some of the things that get going here get going. So there's a certain clarity if you've been through that and you're an immigrant from a country like Cuba. The last thing I will say before we take a break and get into the women's sports issue is that the federal government was really just designed

to manage interstate commerce, create a common debt, even that was kind of a radical concept, take care of tariff and domestic international policy and defense, and that's about it. That was the federal government. And it really is time, this is about the third time I've said this in a week, to read the Federalist Papers.

And the Federalist Papers is where we lay out the conditions and the philosophy for even having a federation of states, which at the time were essentially 13 independent countries. And remember, when you read the Federalist papers, they seem quite soft by comparison with the size and excesses of federal government today. Remind ourselves that Hamilton was a radical Federalist. He was over the top. He was the leading the

charge for a Federalist system. Now economics sort of, he had a genius economics sort of brain and so that was sort of very much a guiding principle for him. But I think it's time to free the federalist papers, at least the key ones. Don't you agree? Oh, absolutely. It should be a required reading in schools.

My kids have read it. In fact, I would say something that is sort of a no-brainer is we should have kids, you know, memorize, if they're going to memorize anything in school, and I'm not a huge fan of memorization, but have them memorize the Constitution, know your rights, know what the amendments are. You know, I mean, very simple civics things. I think we should be teaching kids so that when they become adults and they come of age to vote, they actually know what the heck is going on, you know, because in most cases,

a lot of them are just simply uninformed. And that's why you saw them for so long voting in a way that was diametrically opposed to what was actually good for them because they just simply were not informed about the things that matter to the foundational values of the country and how it all plays together, right?

And so you couldn't be more right though that I think an overarching theme of what we need people to understand is that we need a much smaller government. Our government is way too large. It does way too many things. A good example of this is NASA, right? So NASA at one point served a purpose and I think it did some great things. However, inevitably what happens is, you know, as you get further down the lane, it bloats into this big entity like the DMV, right? And everything is slower, their skills diminish. And you see today, you know, the reality is SpaceX can do what NASA can't do. They can do it for 20 times cheaper, 20 times faster. And maybe that's actually been underselling SpaceX's capabilities, because that was the case in 2008.

They were already able to do things 20 times cheaper, 20 times faster. So today it's vastly beyond that, right? And so if you look at every agency of our government, there is a private way to do it that would be more efficient and would be done cheaper. And that's simply just the reality of it, you know, with maybe a few exceptions like defense, where you really want to have a cohesive national, you know, policy and have it dictated by the commander in chief. The vast majority of these things though, could be done with much more efficiency

outside of government. Yeah, a lot of thoughts to what you just said. By the way, how dare you talk about NASA like that? According to the view, I think it was today or yesterday, SpaceX just sends things up to explode and they just one catastrophe after another. Did they not see the gigantic rockets being picked up by chopsticks repeatedly over and over

in different countries? I don't think they've ever actually watched any space launches over there. I think that's something producer told them in their year. They don't seem like big space fans to me. I, however, am a gigantic nerd. So I've watched way too many of them more than I'd like to admit. And the truth is NASA is not able to really functionally do almost anything SpaceX does.

They lost the ability to do that a little over a decade ago. Actually a little more than that. Now I feel like I'm getting older. It's more like 15 years ago, they really lost a lot of these capabilities. And they just simply didn't advance with a lot of the technology, they serve primary functions that are very important in space. But I think we did a service to the American people and save them a lot of money by shifting how we spend our money when it came to launches. And it's simply I mean mean, if you go back in time and you say, NASA, we want to make you able to do everything SpaceX does,

we would have spent probably 200 times the amount we spent with SpaceX to do the very same thing. And now, you know, I always relate this back to people's normal lives like the DMV. How good does it sound to have DMV workers actually be, you know, culpable for their behavior? Right. I mean, like if you were able to actually take a DMV workers actually be, you know, culpable for their behavior, right? I mean, like if you were able to actually take a DMV employee's behavior to their manager and say, hey, they did this for the last two hours. I mean, maybe I've just had terrible experiences at the DMV my whole life, but I don't think

I've ever met a nice person who worked there. They were always rude, always took forever, you know, it was always a terrible experience. And you know, so it sounds nice to have it be a private business where they actually have a boss to answer to and they can actually lose their job for being rude and inefficient. Well, it seems like we're kind of moving in that direction in terms of how the executive branch of the government

is being managed. But I've been saying, I'm going to go to break. I'm going to get there, but I just been thinking lately also, you mentioned, you said something about defense or violence. And we have to remember the government has, the one thing the government always has is a monopoly on violence. And I feel like they've not been like managing that properly.

They've either been afraid to use it or handing it off to people that shouldn't have the privilege. I just, the monopoly on violence is, there's something wrong there right now in terms of it again, being managed in a way that is in the best interest of the people that they're designed to protect.

I don't know, but that's maybe a bigger conversation for a future day. I'm certainly not- Bucaylee is a good example of this in El Salvador. You know, he's taken broad authority of defense and of that monopoly of violence and he's used it to make people safer who are actual law abiding good people.

Instead of handing off this, handing off or relinquishing his responsibility for guarding his monopoly on violence to gangs. And they are happy we'll take it. But let's take a break. We're going to talk about women's sports. I'm going to bring Sia Lee in here. She is on Instagram as, uh oh, S.yea.

The yea is Y-E-A-A-H. And you can follow her on X also. Sia's S-I-A. the last name is L-I-I, L-I-I. Robbie Starbuck is going to stay with me to help navigate this conversation. We'll be right back. Well, you've heard me praise Paleo Valley's grass-fed finished beef bone broth and the delicious meat sticks. I now want to turn it over to Paleo Valley founder

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Shhh. Shhh. Shhh. Shhh. Again, Robbie stays with us and we welcome Sia Liili'i. She is on XS, Sia Liili'i and also on Instagram as S.Yau with two A's Y-E-A-A-H. And Sia, I will tell you a little bit about her. She is the co-captain of the University of Nevada, Reno volleyball team, graduating senior

studying journalism, which I'm anxious to talk to you about, Sia, how that's going these days. And in October led a led her team and the state regarding competitive fairness in women's collegiate volleyball. So tell us a little bit about what you did, why you did it and what the current status is. Last fall we learned as a team we had a transgender male competing in the Mountain West and NCAA. This came through viral social media videos of this person hitting balls and doing things that was not common in women's volleyball. This was brought to our attention and then we had a couple meetings about it, just like

talking with each other about what could happen. Then one day we were preparing for a match against our in-state rival UNLV and our university decided to make a decision for us saying that we are going to participate in this match. And it didn't go over really well for them. We decided that they weren't going to tell us what we were allowed to or what we were going to do and we took that back and just said no we're not doing this, it's not right, it's not fair. Men should not have a place in women's sports.

And we received backlash or personally, I received backlash from doing so, not only from random people on the internet, but from people at my school. There were a couple groups of students who decided to slander my name, I guess I could say, as well as reach out to me on my social media pages telling me a lot of hateful rhetoric. But ultimately, we didn't plan that game. Instead, we held a rally on the exact day that we were supposed to play against San Jose State where I Along with eight of my other teammates spoke about what? It's not okay to have men and boys participating in girls and women's sports and that this sanity is over

We're not doing that anymore, and we boycotted that game When people came after you what what was their sort of claim? That I was doing this in the name of transphobia and bigotry and that I was following an agenda, which was interesting. How did you respond to that? Honestly, I didn't respond because there's no conversation to be had. How would you respond with somebody saying, this is transphobia, it's unfair to people who are marginalized?

What would you say? It sounds like projecting that it's not any of those things. There's no hate behind any of the actions that I partook in or my teammates. It was the general basis that women deserve single sex spaces where it's fair, it's safe. And that I want in the future, my kids, my little cousins, my nieces to have the opportunity that my teammates and I had of playing on a division one team and competing at a high level, um, without having to worry about safety before stepping on the court or going into a game, um, where there's a boy or a man playing on the other side that

could potentially be detrimental to someone. What, what if the gets a little in the weeds if if someone had had say hormone blockers before puberty and didn't have any of them the male pubertal bone and muscle changes, did you guys take that into account at all? Honestly we, none of us are doctors, we none of us had degrees in any of those type of things. We just knew the general basis of a man is a man, a woman is a woman. And there are biological differences in sport that need to be recognized because personally seeing the way that men's volleyball is played

and the way that women's volleyball is played, it's very different. The net is a foot higher in men's volleyball compared to women's volleyball. And there's a reason for that. And you're studying journalism. I'm wondering, A, if, if that has become somewhat of an echo chamber that you worry about and B, did your peers in journalism come after you? about and B, did your peers in journalism come after you? So it was kind of a mixed type of thing. I did have some of my classmates come up to me

and commend me and tell me that they're there for me. If with everything that was going on with the sites of media during the season and just being a student athlete on top of having all this around me. And honestly, I chose to disregard any of the ones who were negative because I didn't have time for that. Let me bring Robbie Starbuck back in. Robbie, this is a topic that you have dealt with. It gets a little confusing to me when I think about all the different nuances to this. I mean, it's obviously very easier just to keep it,

you know, X, X, X, Y kind of thing. I know, Sia, by the way, you're involved with the clothing line, X, X, X, Y. But it is as much as anything really about the pubertal growth spurt under the influence of testosterone that creates the significant advantages in a male athlete. How do you reconcile these things? I would say, you know, there's a couple things to talk about there.

Number one, it's extremely rare that that is the case. And even if that were the case, there's still differences. I'm a big fan of what can be measured, but not everything can be measured, right? that that is the case. And even if that were the case, there's still differences. I'm a big fan of what can be measured, but not everything can be measured, right? And so there's these innate instincts that we have as males that females typically do not have. Are there exceptions? Sure.

But the vast majority have these innately from the time they are born. And you see it just in the behaviors that are different in babies and toddlers. And there are differences being a dad myself between two boys and two girls I have as babies as toddlers, they had very different instincts between the sexes, right? And that's well before puberty. So I do have a little bit of experience actually when we lived in California, we live in Tennessee, I've lived here, you know, six, almost, almost seven years now, but back when we lived in in California my oldest daughter who's 16 now our last year there was in soccer

And actually had this situation come up before it was a national story Right where a boy showed up on a team that they were supposed to play against they play the game and for the first time ever During a game that boy their team was losing the boys team was losing My daughter's really good a soccer she'd scored like six goals in that, that boy, their team was losing, the boys team was losing, my daughter's really good at soccer, she'd scored like six goals in that game. That boy, after their team was celebrating because of a goal, ran up to one of the girls on my daughter's team,

knocked her down onto the ground and hit her with an elbow. I had never seen a girl do that at that age in soccer ever before. And so that tells you, there was an innate instinct difference. That was the first thought I had is, like, that's something me as a boy in sports. I experienced boys fighting, right?

I never saw it with my daughters, with other biological females, especially at that age, right? You maybe start to see it in high school with hair pulling and things like that in soccer. But you never saw somebody go up and body slam somebody onto the ground, right? So that was my first foray into seeing, okay, there's something different here. Then there's the secondary part of this, which is that, you know, they, they'd

like to pose it as being transphobic in some way. Well, I'll never forget this. I sat down with Riley Gaines and we had a conversation about this issue. And she said, you know, what they're forgetting is that we have locker rooms. We have to change with them in no matter what their hormone situation is. And we didn't have a choice when she was in the locker room with Leah locker rooms we have to change with them in no matter what their hormone situation is. And we didn't have a choice. When she was in the locker room with Leah Thomas or whatever his real name is, those girls felt mentally raped by having to see a guy naked in there.

They had no choice in it. And they weren't made aware of it ahead of time by the NCAA or their team or anybody else. Right? So that being the case, I think that you have to always veer on the side of sanity, right? Which is to say we're going to separate this by XX, XY, that is the fair thing to do. And you can compete against your own chromosomes. Now, beyond that, if people who identify as trans want to form their own sports leagues where only people who quote identify as trans complain, well, knock yourself out. That's fine. I mean, good luck getting people to in, well, knock yourself out. That's fine. I mean, good luck getting people to watch,

but I think they can go and do that. That's, well, that's an interesting idea. But I want to just sort of hang a lantern on what you just said there about the behavior of the young males. There's something in all mammals, all XY mammals in all mammals, all XY mammals, called rough and tumble play that you see in XY and you do not see in XX.

And one of the theories in addition to it being rather aggressive and unpleasant for the females even see, let alone to participate in, it also gives the males a parameter around which to manage one another's aggression as you hit the testosterone spurts and puberty. So it actually serves very important functions biologically and socially. See I want to ask you about what Robbie just brought up here, which is being exposed to people in the locker room and concerns about that sort of thing.

My big concern is that what is the obligation of any group, in this case women, to have their own rights and privileges subjugated by someone else because they've been marginalized. In other words, what's the obligation of women's sports to give up your rights and privileges? And if somebody forces that, what does that mean? What do you say?

I think it's lunacy that women had to even be brought to that point where, I mean, it's lunacy that even me, Riley, all the women act like women ambassadors for IW that we even have to forfeit games. We have to stop doing what we love, playing the games that we love because these men are being allowed in our sports. It's in high school here in Reno, where I live in Reno, Nevada. 14 year old girls are exposed to a boy who's playing on a volleyball team here in Reno. They're exposed to him all the time in the locker room. That's not okay. 14 year old girls seeing

a fully undressed little boy or 14 year old boy in their locker room every day, just because he is identifying as a female. It's I mean, the war on children. That's exactly how I would put it. Robbie, you want to speak to that? Exactly what it is. And you know, the sad part is a lot of these kids who are put in that position who could identify as transgender themselves are also victims. So it's not even just that there's these victims of the girls being victimized.

You know, you've got this other group of people who have been victimized by being told that they were born the wrong way, that their body's wrong and that they actually are all these things that they can never be. I mean, talk about setting somebody up for failure. You're telling them they are gonna fix all their problems by becoming something that they can never truly be. And so it all starts with this great big lie, right? And the sickest part is, I remember my wife did a report on this where her organization is a nonprofit. They did a report on the Munchausen moms. So many of these transgender identifying kids

are actually just a case of a new form, or I'd say an aggressive version of Munchausen moms. So many of these transgender identifying kids are actually just a case of a new form or I'd say an aggressive version of Munchausen where the mom is using the child for their own psychosomatic problems. They've got their own issues and they're using the kid for validation or for something within their social circles. There's many different mental reasons why they're doing this, but it all boils back to the mom's issues, right? And so I think that there's a lot of victims here and not a whole lot of people doing what is necessary to stop the victimization.

But now with this new administration, I think step one has been taken, which is clearly you need to help the complete innocent bystanders here, which is the women in sports, right? Like none of them asked for this, we need to remove this barrier first and foremost, get rid of the men out of the locker rooms and out of the sports. But on a secondary basis, you have to deal with the issues that we just talked about with the moms

and with the children that are being influenced to do something that is simply, I think any other time in history, we would regard as some form of child mutilation. And just because we live in 2025, doesn't mean that it's suddenly no longer child mutilation. Munchausen by proxy you're talking about, which is interesting because so, so some of these, all these things are medical conditions, whether it's gender dysphoria or munchausen by proxy. And one of my grave concerns in this topic, I have two major threads in my own thinking and I'm very moderate on it.

One is how much, you know, what's the obligation of women to be responsible and give up their own, give up something that, there's women's sports. They have to relinquish women's sports to men. I thought we wanted to protect women's sports. They have to relinquish women's sports to men. I thought we wanted to protect women's sports and give them an equal opportunity to compete. It's just the oddest thing that we want to destroy that at the same time.

I understand there's a marginalized group here, but you have another group that you're trying to defend and they shouldn't have to destroy their activities or be in any way. It's not just women's sports. Yeah, it's not just women's sports that they're being asked to give up. They're being asked to give up every single sex space. They're being asked to give up having women's shelters

where they can feel safe, especially, think about the women who have been beaten by men have been in horrible, horrible situations where they've been raped by some abusive guy. And then they go to a women's shelter and find out that the person they have to share a bathroom with is some mentally ill man. They're being asked to go to prison and do the same thing, right? So if a woman goes to prison, then they get impregnated by a guy who again is mentally ill and decides that it is, you know, because they're marginalized, they're right to go

and do this. It's not their right. Marginalized doesn't mean correct. It doesn't mean you're morally superior. It doesn't mean you have a right to anything. Marginalized doesn't mean correct. It doesn't mean you're morally superior. It doesn't mean you have a right to anything. Marginalized can be a figment of your imagination if you just decide that for some reason you're a victim or you're oppressed in some way, right?

I don't see them as victims. I don't see them as oppressed. They're in many cases, you know, it's funny. We always talk about the men who say that they're women because the women who say that they're men don't pose a threat to us as men, right? So that's an implicit admission that the men who pretend they're women are a threat to women. Because if the reverse was true, we'd be talking about that as well. But it's not

true because biologically, we are all different. So we understand innately as men, we're not worried about a woman coming into our bathroom dressed in a suit because we know she can't do anything to us, right? Like I'm 6'2", 6'2", 6'3", somewhere between there, right? I'm a bigger guy. There's not a woman who can come in the bathroom and I'm going to be afraid of them, right? Women have a right to not be afraid in single sex spaces. And it's not just that they're also being told, deny your biology. Woman is no longer your ability to do all of these things, right? That are very uniquely female qualities, the ability to have children.

Obviously not all women can, but it's something that innately a lot of women identify with because it's a very important part of their femininity, right? Their feminine impulses, all of these different things that make up what the experience of being a woman is. They're being asked to give that up too and say, no, actually being a woman is whatever

this cult decides it is. Zia, I feel like you have something to say there. You rocked the house with that one. It's just not okay that we're being asked to give up so many of our rights because of a marginalized group that feels that they need to invade our spaces and that they're being treated as less than when it's nothing more than a mental illness. spaces and that they're being treated as less than when it's nothing more than a mental illness.

It's interesting that the, again, this is just interesting to me that the arguments against abortion are very similar to the arguments for transgender women in women's sports. In other words, you have an obligation to commit your body and services to somebody else for a period of time, independent of its impact on you. And that's kind of interesting, but again, people don't think about these things. And let me ask you this, Robbie, should transgender males be allowed to

participate in men's sports or is it too dangerous for that transgender male? So I'm not up to date on all my terminology. Sometimes people say that they mean the women who want to be men. Sometimes they say it to the men who want to be women. So are we talking about biological males? I mean, an X, Y I mean, XY on testosterone. I'm assuming XX on testosterone, androgenized female. Should that person be allowed,

or does the same logic hold that it's the danger? And by the way, the group that is so obsessed with safety throws all safety aside when it comes to this topic, which is I also find fascinating. But should the female to males be allowed to participate or is it too dangerous? On the basis of fairness legally I would say they should not be able to participate because I think you have to have you know some sort of equal standard they should participate in their own league right or something like that. But however

I will say this in the common sense logic side of things, I don't care. Like if a woman wants to pretend they're a man and wants to try to try out for a male team, they're not going to make the team. Like they're in almost every case, they're not going to be able to compete against the males. So it's like, it's kind of ludicrous, you know? So I think that's why we don't talk about it, right? Because there's also a case in swimming that Riley and I have talked about, there was a

female to male transition that happened at the collegiate level. And what happened is it was a girl that performed very well among females, right, she switches to the male part. And she literally got beat by a male who has one arm once she shifted over to competing against males in the collegiate level. And she was dead last every single time when she competed against males. So this is why we don't talk about

the reverse scenario, female to male, because they simply are not outperforming the way that male to female are. Men are dominating women in sports when they enter it. They're stealing the trophies. They're doing all these things. The reverse is just not true. We don't see any girls dominating male sports.

Susan, why don't you turn your mic on? I'm not used to Susan. She's yelling out stuff during this conversation and she doesn't normally do this. I'm guessing she has stuff to say. I like the idea of them having their own teams. Yeah, sure. That's a great idea. My kids were all in sports.

So if this was me dealing with my kids going through this, it would be game on for me. I heard she's at the producer's desk here and she's like, that's true, they're right. Yeah. Yes. We did have a female on our football team, our JV football team.

No, she was the varsity. She was pretty good. She was a varsity player. And she did a movie about her life on that team. The boys were not easy on her. No, she played, she competed. She was great. She player and she did a movie about her life on that team. The boys were not easy on her, you know? No, she played, she competed. She was great. She wasn't on testosterone.

No, she competed as a female. Athletic. Yeah, as a female. And it was- Well, see, so- It was controversy. I see that as sort of like, you know, with the Green Berets, right? Or with Rangers, you know, you're're gonna have very few females that are able to

Get to the same physical, you know standards that a male is going to be able to get to for special forces, right? But anomalies exist right and so you're gonna have those cases when it comes to things like that where you have to approach it On a case-by-case basis and if they fit the physical standards and they do all the things, you know, they're an anomaly and you sort of work around that. But- I'm guessing you would not discriminate in any way, correct? Other than the standards of performance.

Yeah. And so, which are discriminatory by their nature. They want to discriminate people who can make the standard or not. I wanna see a transgender football league. But that's why we just have to tell the truth. There really is a difference between male and female, you know? And so I think that's what it all comes down to. There's a reason why none of us here are threatened by a female pretending to be a male and trying

to join our sports or whatever, because we all recognize the absurdity of the fact that the competition level is so different, you know? And so there's a reason for that. Again, it goes back to the fact that our foundational, you know, block here of why we're right is there is a difference between the sexes, right? And so it makes sense to protect women and to say they get to have their own spaces.

I, though I'm hearkening back, I did this reality series called Special Forces where we trained with these Special Forces guys. And when I was preparing for that, I was watching videos on seer training and this for the Special Forces. And one of the guys said he had a female trainer and he talked back to her a little bit

and she punched him in the face. And he thought she was one of the toughest trainers he'd ever had. So they're perfectly fine having female special forces, female trainers at a certain level. If I, it's above my pay grade, above my ability to make the cut. They discriminated me right on out of there.

But other people independent of their particular sex hormones or sex genome can make it. See, how are things now? What is going on with the team, the league? Is it more acceptable, your guys' position? What are things today? So the NCAA, after Trump signed the EO, which was beautifully written, bringing back Title title and reinforcing it, Stex based.

Um, then suddenly came out with the policy where there were a lot of words used like gender identity and assigned at birth, things like that. Um, and honestly, I think it was just something to throw, to say that they're making a change, they're changing their policy, they're doing what we wanted. But in reality, if you look into that policy, men are still allowed to be on women's teams, still allowed to go into our locker rooms, still allowed to be a part of the sports. And it was just, it was kind of like a slap in the sports. And it was just it was kind of like a slap in the face. Kind of going back a couple weeks. Charlie Baker was he was testifying in front of the Senate and he was saying that if a woman is uncomfortable with the man changing in their locker room, then they could go from

another facility or that they had to be provided another place for them to change because they had to adapt based upon a man's feelings of wanting to be provided another place for them to change because they had to adapt based upon a man's feelings of wanting to be in the woman's locker room and things like that. So I think it was kind of not like it wasn't really surprising to me that this policy that they threw out wasn't fully in like didn't fully comply with the EO or Title IX really. like didn't fully comply with the EO or Title IX really. Robbie, good thing we were in high school when this all was going on, because we might have said, hey, I want to be in a women's locker room. What the hell? I mean, why does he get to go in there?

And there's cases like that. I guarantee there are cases like that that are just born out of perversion, right? But you know what? If I can, I can point out the absurdity of this whole thing in a very simple way. If we follow this logic of men should be allowed to play against women in women's sports, it leads you to a place where you have to accept that people can create their own reality about what and who they are. So that means that trans age has to also be accepted, right? So if a man says, you know, I'm 36 and I identify as 17, you need to allow me on the team at the high school or it's discrimination. I mean, it seems silly, right? But this, this whole thing we're talking about would have

seemed silly 15 years ago. It's the same logic train that I get to decide what my age actually is because I feel like I'm 17. And so I should be able to play on this team. And we would all understand the absurdity of that. We would all understand that, you know, on an average basis, your average 35-year-old is going to be stronger than somebody at 17. And yeah, sure, you could maybe find some anomalies of some tiny guy at 35,

but the vast majority are going to be much stronger than the people at 17. And none of us would stand for it. We'd all say it's weird. We'd all say it's kind of pedophilic in nature. And so I think that lays it out very clearly for people is it's not even just about this issue. It's about a train of thought and an ideology

that tells you you have to deny reality and that you can't just conform to sanity. Bobby, one of the principles, the founding principle of critical theory, not critical race theory, critical theory, is that subjectivity trumps everything. And that logic is just some old concept that old white men used to develop, but that subjectivity is what has real meanings. What's, yeah, but subjectivity. And that's to, and this is also goes along with the post-structuralist and all this nonsense,

which the rest of the world had rejected 75 years ago. And somehow we got back involved with it and it's right at its cores. And now we have to get back to what is and is not real and what is it is not prudent what is is not reasonable and Fundamentally and see what I'll just sort of leave it in your lap here a little bit at the end to talk about it We have to protect women's sports and women's rights and women's privileges I I don't know and And you mentioned earlier, Robbie,

one of the instinctive things about being a male, instinctively, I'm instinctively wanna protect it. And the fact that you're being asked to essentially hand it over to somebody else who can sort of run amok with the competitive aspect of this, it sort of troubles me so tremendously emotionally as well as objectively, but go ahead. I definitely agree with that.

It worries me the direction that we're heading if we do allow men and women sports. A lot of the arguments that we'll get is, well, there's only a handful of them in women's sports right now. What happens down the road when our kids are trying to get into sports and women are erased completely where there's not a real woman division anymore because it's full of the transgender athletes and there's no woman left. I think we stop this now because it's absurd,

ridiculous to have women forfeit, give up our opportunities because a person is identifying as a woman and trying to invade our spaces. And yeah, I think going on from here, we need to follow the EO that Trump has beautifully written for all of us. And I hope and pray that the NCAA comes to their senses. They're being slapped with a lot of legislative, like, there are a lot of lawsuits right now due to the fact that they allowed men and women's sports in the beginning of it all. And I really hope real change comes from all the women who have said, Hey, we're not doing this, we're stopping it now. So I'm excited to see what comes in the future.

It seems sort of, it could be simply gender is not the question. It's just by, just what's your sex? Now it's what's your gender, what's your sex? And this is a sport for this sex, this is a sport for that sex. Gender, we're not, we don't even have to deal with it. You can identify whatever you are, but the sex is what is being protected. Robbie, thank you for joining us.

Do you have any last thoughts? No, I would just say, you know, I think that C is incredibly brave, along with many of the other women who have stood up on this issue. And I'm just thankful that they have stood up because every single one of them has helped for girls like my daughters women who have stood up on this issue. And I'm just thankful that they have stood up because every single one of them has helped for,

you know, girls like my daughters to not have to hopefully deal with this issue as they advance into college. And, you know, I think we're gonna look back on this time period where kids were being transitioned and men were being allowed to playing women's sports, similarly to the barbaric nature of how we look back and see a child sacrifice in,

you know, previous cultures that existed. I think we're going to be as disgusted, or our kids or grandkids will be, with what was allowed to happen during this time. Because I think we haven't even seen the fallout yet. Honestly, the number of kids who've been fooled into this ideology, that are going on hormones and all these things. And they're, they're going to come out of this in 10 years and you're going to see far more damage than we even realize now. Nice. Thank you so much for joining us.

Appreciate you being here. Thank you, Dr. Drew. You got it. Yeah. And I think people know sort of my, I'm not going to dump this on those guys, but my sort of view is that, you know, there is a medical condition and it has a medical treatment and the medical treatment is dangerous. The surgical treatments are even more dangerous.

And that is up to medicine and doctors to figure out the right treatment for the right patients with the right conditions, with the right follow-up for the right duration like we manage any medical problem and As Caleb you mentioned in the roll-up to the show our friend Nikki Blankie on the last name or into Norton Nikki Norton. I always forget their last name when I start with Nikki and you know, she was treated medically and is on the last name right now, Nort, Nikki Norton. I always forget their last name when I start with Nikki. And she was treated medically and I can't imagine her being different than she is.

She described how in Norway at the age of 13, she started having puberty, she started freaking out, she was a male, went to the, her mother took her to the pediatrician, the pediatrician said, I think you have a medical problem, a psychiatric condition, went to a psychiatrist, went through extensive evaluation.

They said, yes, you have this thing called gender dysphoria and you will need to take dangerous medicines the rest of your life. She got on the medicines, they worked, the dysphoria went away. She's an extraordinary person now. And she looks at her condition as such, a condition for which I take dangerous medicine

and it helps me and I'm good now. Yeah, Caleb, was that how you experienced her interview as well? Yeah, absolutely. And that was very honest. It was very inspiring and she compared it to the way things are overseas. She's like, thought it was insane that over here,

they were doing surgeries and giving these strong medications to children who were under 18 when those same kids can't consent to anything else It cannot do any of this and that you're yet you're saying they can choose these remember this decision her big thing was without Careful analysis and evaluation they were just sort of They since they brought it up there pushed into treatment She said I went through she went through, I think a couple of years, even, of evaluation, or it was at least a year, before she was treated, because it has to be done carefully

and with great, great caution. Any event, interesting, we are going to not be around tomorrow, do we have upcoming shows here? You're not around either, you're going on a big excursion. Where are you going? Yes, my wife is turning 30, so we're renting a little beach house and all of her Los Angeles

and all the other friends all over the place are coming in and we're going to be gone all weekend celebrating her turning 30. Congratulations, happy birthday to your wife. And we've got a USAID whistleblower coming in next week. We've got, let's see the guests up there. Luke Rudowsky, Michael Franzisi. We've got a bunch of interesting guys coming up.

Pay attention. We'll be from New York next week. I believe it is Tuesday and Wednesday at three. Thursday at noon. Is that correct? As I understand it, Caleb, is that, I'm pretty sure that's it. I think so.

I'm going to have to look that up, make sure. I'm looking it up now. Three, three. pretty sure that's it. I think so. I'm gonna have to look that up, make sure. I'm looking it up now. Three, three. It's hard for me to tell. It looks like it might be definitely three on Tuesday and Wednesday. And then on Thursday, it's hard for me to tell. But we'll let you know as we get into next week.

So appreciate you all being here and we will see you. Oh, and by the way, look for, if you missed Susan's show today, it will be up on X later. And on Rumble also. It's on Rumble. Rumble now is a really interesting show. Mark Yargos and I talked about Wendy Williams

and what has happened to her and what some of the controversies are there. So check it out. We'll see you on Tuesday at three. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only.

I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me, call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255.

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