Ask Dr. Drew - Is It Time To Cancel mRNA? Epidemiologist Asks How Many More Warning Signs We Need w/ Nicolas Hulscher & Chris Fenton – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 480

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

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All right, we're coming to you this week from Florida. We are at News Studios and we'll be speaking to Nick Holshure, who we spoke to before, he's an epidemiologist, also administrator at the McCullough Foundation. He continues to pump out really interesting research. We're going to get an update from him. He has a BS in pre-health professional sciences from Honors College. In December 2020, his education at the University of Michigan School of Public Health.

We got a master's in public health, specializing in epidemiology. He has contributed to 16 scientific manuscripts advancing our understanding of COVID-19 vaccine. And then we are gonna speak to Chris Fenton who wrote a book about China. It's called Feeding the Dragon. He's been heading a company,

DMG Entertainment Motion Picture Group, and that Feeding the Dragon is about the trillion dollar dilemma facing Hollywood, the NBA, and American business, as it pertains to China and tariffs. We'll get into all of that right after this. Our laws, as it pertains to substances, are draconian and bizarre.

Psychopaths start this way. He was an alcoholic. are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this race. He was an alcoholic. Because of social media and pornography. PTSD. Love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for ****.

Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying. You go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Love Line all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat.

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I'll be on his podcast, Almost Serious. Look for that. I'm not sure when it's going up, but I'm going to do, spend some time with him immediately following this show. But I don't, I don't think it's a stream. I think you have to look for it at almost serious of where you get your podcast, wherever that is. So let's get to Nick Holcher. Let's get an update on what he's been discovering and pushing out over there at the McCullough foundation. Nick, welcome back to the program.

Thanks for having me. So a lot of vaccine data coming in from you. So bring us up to date, which I saw some stuff even coming out today and yesterday. What has your attention right now? Well, the most recent study that just came out actually shows that children, so they actually took a hundred thousand teens ages 12 to 17 or 12 to 18 and they compared it to 20,000.

I'm going to have a bunch of questions. So don't permit me. I'm sorry. There's a little delay. So I'm going to look, let's look like I'm interrupting Nick. I am because of this delay. Who were they? Who did this study and how did they do it? Yeah, so this study was based in Denmark.

And so they compared a hundred thousand vaccinated teens to about 20,000 unvaccinated teens who were served as controls. And they found after 50 days, so 50 days after the second dose, up so 50 days after the second dose, up to 150 days after the second dose, the vaccinated teens that were vaccinated with Pfizer, mRNA shots, had 20% more emergency room visits

and 17% more general practitioner visits. And so they didn't expand on what they went to the doctors or the emergency rooms for, but we can assume based on the data that has been published previously, that this is likely due to what we call long vaccine. It's not long COVID, but it's very similar. It's probably due to this retained spike protein that they're unfortunately producing in their

vital organ systems. And so they have to go to the doctors and they have these concerns. And that's probably why we see this 20% uptick in these ER visits among these teens. And this is one of the only studies that looks at teenagers with regards to safety concerns. Usually they only look at older people or you know middle-aged people and so this is an absolutely critical study and so if we want to get away from the chronic disease epidemic, if we want to start to reverse it where over 60% of Americans have at least one chronic disease, we should probably stop giving

chronic disease inducing injections. Yeah, we're gonna speak, I think tomorrow to Romyo Gendr who's doing study, been doing, published some great studies on now finally published, they had trouble getting it published, of course, on long COVID and long Vax. And I'll clarify this with him tomorrow,

but my understanding is they're seeing a little more long Vax than long COVID and the long Vax is more disabling and more chronic, more persistent. Yeah, we could say that because unfortunately a study recently came out, the first author was Ota. This was out of Japan, and they actually looked in stroke patients who got an mRNA shot,

and they actually found their cerebral arteries, so their brain arteries were actually producing the spike protein years after vaccination, and that was accompanied by immune system CD4 and CD8 cells, which indicates that the body was attacking its own brain as a result of this vaccine spike production. And so unfortunately, with the vaccines, we do believe that the spike does last longer.

It's not the same spike protein that's with the virus. So when the virus goes in, it attaches to the ACE2 receptor of your cells, but it kind of breaks in half when the Viron enters the cell. With the vaccines, the mRNA goes into your cell and actually instructs your cells to produce a full length spike protein that's been modified to be this full length

and to be very stable. And so it's a different protein, full length, it's been modified and we think it's more pathogenic than the viral version. And I think Dr. Yorgandos tomorrow are gonna tell us about these non-classical monocytes that continue to have intracytoplasmic components or actually full spike proteins

that prevent them from going through their normal apoptotic cycle and therefore sit there and inflame the brain. Yes, yes, and this is what appears to be happening. But unfortunately, it's not only the brain. And I wanna go over two massive studies that kind of just throw the whole safe and effective narrative out of the water. So the two largest COVID vaccine safety studies ever conducted, the first one's by Fuxova and colleagues. This had 99 million people in it. They found 500% increased risks

of myocarditis, 300% increased risks of spinal cord inflammation, which can be permanently disabling. It can cause paralysis and about 200. It was transverse myelitis? Yes, yes, transverse myelitis. And so we have all these things. Yeah, yeah, and then we have the second largest vaccine safety study ever conducted,

which was published a few weeks ago. That had 85 million people in it and had a control group. So it was about 40 million vaccinated, 40 million weren't. It was a meta-analysis. They found 300% increased risk of heart attack. They found 200% increased risk of arrhythmias. They found about 250% increased risk of arrhythmias. They found about 250% increased risk of stroke. And so now we have the largest population sizes

ever studied that were vaccinated and we find these massive risks. I saw also you put something out about Alzheimer's. Yes, yes, there was a study by I believe the first author is Roe, R-O-H, I could be wrong on that, but what he found, this was in Korea, they looked at about a hundred thousand, actually a few hundred thousand Koreans, they looked in the national database, they found about a 22.5% increase in Alzheimer's in the vaccinated older adult population.

And so again, this is probably due to this brain spike production. It's probably due to this brain inflammation that is causing brain damage and resulted in this cognitive impairment, which they also looked at. They found cognitive impairment up about 140% in vaccinated older adults.

So it seems like the world's medical research sort of engine is changing gears, let's say. It's sort of kicking into gear where it's showing a willingness to look at these things. It sort of answer me these two questions. It looks like it's distributed across the globe. I answer my question is, is there a center of gravity from which this is coming from

as often there is in research? And number two, are these predominantly meta-analyses? These are big numbers. Yeah, well, we'll start first. These are predominantly meta-analyses. So usually, actually, well, I'll say first, the largest study with 99 million people, that was not a meta-analysis. They just had a large database they collected these from.

But the second largest one with 85 million people, this was the meta-analysis. But regardless, it's still valid. It's still valid sample sizes, according to these epidemiologic principles. So it's still great, great evidence. But regarding where we think most of the vaccine injuries are located, probably where the highest uptake is, it's really hard to gauge this because it

hasn't been studied. But honestly, we could assume that the US actually has some of the highest vaccine injury rates. You know, just by looking at the vaccine adverse events reporting system, you know, we see about 40,000 deaths, over a million injuries. And that's under reported by a conservative estimate of about 31. So, you know, we could have 30 million adverse events among Americans after these shots. And so, and we do it, we did have a massive uptake of these, but we also look in Europe, Europe had a large uptake of mRNA shots. And so it's really concentrated

in the Western world. You know, we look at Russia, China, they didn't really give mRNA shots to their populations. So that we would expect to see less mRNA induced injuries there. Yeah, I'm hoping that that's just we're more hysterical, but we'll see. And certainly the West is more exposed, that's for sure. When I was saying center of gravity, I didn't mean center of gravity of incidents.

I mean center of gravity of where the literature, where the research is coming from. You know how sometimes center of gravity comes to the US, sometimes it heads towards England, sometimes it goes to China. That's just sort of the way medical research works or sometimes it's actually in Denmark. So my question is,

and I'm gonna add a question to this one too and I'm trying to ask multiple questions again this one too, and I'm trying to ask multiple questions again, because of this whole delay we have. It has the center of gravity of research shifted or where is it coming from? And is anybody attempting to get these meta analysis up to a Cochrane standard and, and co-signed by Cochrane group? Well, that's what we need. You know, we need these, we need a Cochrane review of these. You know, we do know that's the gold standard. And as far as I'm aware, they haven't tried it.

But out of America, we don't see many of these safety studies. Usually they are coming from either the European countries. Yeah. Or even Africa. There was actually a study that just came out of Africa. I believe Nigerian researchers, they looked at the COVID deaths before and after the vaccination campaign.

And they found that the COVID-19 deaths across the world continued to increase despite mass vaccination. And in some areas actually drastically accelerated after the vaccination campaign, which was in the Western Pacific region. This is Australia, New Zealand. And so they saw about a 1200% increase in COVID-19 deaths after the mass vaccination campaign.

And, but another thing, and another study that also came out recently, was that about half of COVID-19 deaths in Greece were not actually due to COVID-19. They did a hospital audit, they verified the records, they looked and see, well, did these people at these hospitals actually die from COVID-19? And literally half of them did not.

They just had a positive PCR test. And so we do think, we do think that this is reflective across the world. So death counts were drastically inflated for COVID-19. So I want to have one question about the vaccine distribution. And then I want to talk about the sort of misrepresentation of epidemiology and data that is persisting out there. My first question, though, is, I'm a I think Covaxin should have been deployed more. And that my understanding was deployed in India.

Do we have data out of India in terms of their injury rate from the vaccines? We don't have much, we don't have much. Yeah, I know they did deploy these inactivated virus ones. They deployed the antigen based ones. And, you know, as far as I'm aware, it does have a less adverse event rate for sure than these mRNA shots.

Now you can still get adverse events, obviously, by injecting spike, but you know, what we really needed was nucleocapsid-based. I mean, why did they go with the spike, the most pathogenic part? Why? Well, but I get in the emergency when they didn't know how far this thing was gonna go, they went for spike.

I get it. But then why immediately didn't they switch to nucleocapsid? When it was clear that the spike is the pathogenic mechanism. And then, and then in the face of not doing that, persisting with the mandates, this, this is the insanity. I hope that history will record. It's absolutely insane. Literally, we now have about 320, over 320 studies that show the spike protein alone is highly pathogenic. We have a research library published on this and so we know it's dangerous to every single organ system. It shouldn't be in any of the products

anymore. They got to wipe it out of any injectable. It doesn't belong in there. They can think of something better. And so my other question is about data. And I am trying to understand how we can help people come to terms with what we did here. So I noticed this week, there was some data that came out

about the adverse impact on kids having school closure, which was freaking predictable. And it was like, as soon as they kept doing it, I mean, when we were two months into it, and I always tell everyone the same story back then, you'll find me saying it almost in every stream, which was when the women and children were streaming out of the Ukraine in the first weeks of the Russian invasion,

they were at the Polish border with Poland, putting mics in these women's face. And they all said the same thing. It's terrible. Our sons and husbands are after to stay back, fight this thing. But the kids have been out of school for two weeks. It's been two weeks.

We have to get them back to school. Two weeks, we had two years. And that's insane that we would think that that wouldn't have an adverse impact on kids on multiple levels, developmentally, socially, emotionally, cognitively, all of it. I mean, it's just disgusting. So my question is, that's not my question,

my question is, we now have sort of agreement that it went too long and it had adverse impact. And I still have people saying, I noticed it on social media. Yeah, but the teachers need to be protected. It wasn't about protecting the kids. The teachers needed protection. How do we help people understand

that once the pandemic passed, it really at six months was sort of wrapped. I mean, there was still around and still old people needed to be cared and we needed to be, you know, there was things for us to do as doctors, but in terms of society closing down, unnecessary and damaging.

And this didn't protect the teachers, open the windows. That's it, just open your windows. Is there anything more we should have done for teachers? You got masking, add anything more to open windows, keeping kids home, add anything more to those teachers to safety? I would say not. What do you say?

And where do we find that data? Yeah, these lockdowns were the stupidest and most damaging idea they could have ever done. So they locked everybody down, right? Nobody went to school. Like you just said, but this has resulted in the America's now largest depression rates. Now everybody's depressed, suicide rates are up, and all these things are up. So the mental health has deteriorated among the American population. It's just terrible. And unfortunately these lockdowns

were based on flawed modeling. They tried to say it was gonna kill so many millions. But how do we respond to these people that keep going? You have the teachers data protection. How do we get them to understand that surgical masks don't work? Locking schools down was not necessary. Kids didn't transmit COVID.

Kids transmits flu. They don't transmit COVID. And how do we fight back so people can start to look at what happened realistically? Yeah, I mean, there is a Cochrane review actually that found these cloth masks literally do absolutely nothing. I mean, they don't reduce respiratory virus transmission at all.

So, you know, this masking was nonsense. Now we're going to protecting the teachers. I mean, why don't we tell them to raise their vitamin D levels, you know, vast majority of Americans have- Nasal lavage? Yeah, nasal lavage. Nasal lavage would have done more

than any of this stuff, right? Right, iodine-based nasal lavages. Yeah, nasal lavage. Nase lavage would have done more than any of this stuff, right? Right, iodine-based nasal lavages, gargles, all these things, early treatments, and all like preventative measures, these nutraceuticals, vitamin C, if you're not eating fruits, take some vitamin C, these basic things that were just completely neglected that would offer far more protection

than a cloth mask that acts like a chain link fence. Yeah, so everything we did, there was no reason for gloves, there was no reason for plexiglass sheets that actually only decreased the circulation that should have been increased to keep the virus out or at least from landing somewhere.

Nasal lavage, even saline-nabled lavage. I know that we were working on a Betadine lavage early in this thing. We were representing one here and we were crushed for it. How dare you suggest this thing? Well, they went out of business. They went out of business, that's right. Which is BS, they should have been making more money

than anybody. They should have been the vaccine, they should have been what people were doing. And even now you can prevent respiratory viral illness by nasal lavage a couple of times a day. And saline is adequate. There's other lavages out there that are probably a little better, but saline is adequate if that's what you wanna do. And I agree with you, the Betadine is better.

But there's still like a mass delusion. There's mass formation is still flying around. Do you ever think about that and how we can sort of break through with more reality and more data? Yeah, so I think, well, obviously we know the new HHS, they're gonna be pouring out loads of studies that are probably going to put this to bed, but there will still be about 20% of the population

that is holding on to this pandemic era nonsensical principles. They're still in this mass psychosis. They're still taking upwards now of nine mRNA booster injections. So I think to get to these people, we kind of have to reach the mainstream media that has not reported on any of this, absolutely any of this. And so you know, they haven't, it's dangerous. It's dangerous to the population.

Yeah, it gives us a reason. I think you will one day, here's my prediction. You will one day hear them going, much the way they're congratulating themselves for recognizing now that president Biden was in decline. They will go, yeah, I guess we kind of missed it. We didn't really realize that the, you know, when they say that I get so angry when I say that, when they, I hear them talk about, well, you know, the, it's the, it's the people at the white house to blame. They didn't give us the information. Your job is to find the information.

You're supposed to be reporting, reporters. That's supposed to be your job. And guess what you did do? You canceled and censored anybody who said anything different. I was talking about poor President Biden's Parkinsonism for three years. They still aren't talking about.

And by the way, they're so screwed up. We, I'm sorry to switch topics here, but we don't even know if it was the Parkinsonian medication that made him so sleepy and so cognitively impaired. He may not have dementia. He may just have advanced Parkinsonism due to, I don't know what, but they didn't give any of it. So who knows?

And so the mean, and if he deteriorates, we know what it is, but, but anyway, I digress. We have about four or five minutes to wrap up. Nick, what do you have on your radar going forward? Yeah, right now we see these threats being made by people like Peter Marks, who was just ousted from the FDA. He's saying all of a sudden there's going to be these engineered pathogen threats. So they're saying where Ashish Jaffar,

where COVIDs are a few months ago, said we're entering an age of bio weapons. Bill Gates is consistently warned of bio weapon attacks. And so, you know, when these people that are advocates of gain of function research, you know, we have to be on the lookout. There's about a thousand, over a thousand BSL-3 and BSL-4 biolabs in the United States alone. And many of these are conducting this gain of function research, modifying pathogens to become more dangerous, more deadly, and more transmissible to humans,

this is something that needs to be shut down. We cannot have another man-made pandemic. We now know that the White House just confirmed what we've known for years, that SARS-CoV-2 did leak out of the Wuhan lab. So we have to now take preemptive measures. We gotta stop this research and we got to protect

the population from these manmade threats that shouldn't even be in existence. Yeah, I completely agree with you. And just reasoning through this bio weapon risk, I mean, I'm sure there's all kinds of crazy stuff going on, but why would China want to destroy its primary consumer market? Why would they, maybe the tariffs will make it a moot point

and they'll just want our natural resources, but they want us vassal. They don't want us dead, seems to me. And that's what we should be fighting. That's the war we should be fighting is autonomy and maybe not being such rapacious consumers and rather than creating rapacious viruses or rapacious vaccines to fight off rapacious viruses.

I'm going too far with the metaphor. So Nick, do you have some research coming? Is there something specific? Because I wanna make sure I'm on top of your research as it comes out. Anything on the printing press? Yeah, we're working on a lot of studies, a lot of case reports.

You know, we found spike in somebody 2.5 years after mRNA vaccination. So we have some of these coming out. We have some excess mortality papers coming out. We identified large increases in deaths after vaccination. So a lot up the pipeline at the McCullough Foundation here. We're now over our 20th study looking at the harms of these shots.

And we will continue to do so until, you know, the government finally does something about it. Because unfortunately, our government did not look for any treatments for the vaccine injured. They have been ignored. There are millions of them, millions of vaccine injured, they have been ignored. There are millions of them, millions of vaccine injured Americans. And so we have to start helping these people out.

I don't know how many people, if you go ask any of your friends or family, usually somebody knows somebody that has either died or been permanently disabled. I've got patients. I've got patients. And it's really very striking when you see it. It's not rare thing.

It's uncommon, but it happens. It happens way more than it needed to. I would just say, you saw the DOJ is going to go after the journals now. It's something that RFK had promised in his presidential run. And the goal of that DOJ dismantling of the, what's another word for Rico? What's another word for Rico? Anyway, it's a organized operation. The goal is not just to harm the journals, but to get them to publish data like this that runs a little contrary to their dogmas. Because that's when you know science isn't getting done.

Science is never just say it the Lord. It's never just one way. It's a back and forth. It's a back and forth until a consensus a it's a it's a back and forth until a consensus emerges and a consensus isn't given. It emerges over time and in a scientific discourse. Nick, I appreciate you being here. Where should people go to find you? Yes, you can follow me on X at NIC Holshure. And I want to thank you so much for having me on your show. Oh, it's good to have you. I'll have you back soon.

Thank you. And coming up, we are gonna switch gear. Well, not that far. We're gonna talk about China. Chris Fenton. I was gonna say it's a communist plot as a segue. Well, we'll see what Chris has to say about that. I know, I think you can anticipate hearing Susan's voice

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Don't forget our buddies at TWC. We are traveling. And if you don't know how compulsive we are and how much we love these kids, I don't forget our buddies at TWC, we are traveling. And if you don't know how compulsive we are and how much we love these kids, I don't know if you're aware of this, Susan, we each brought one. We have two kids with us. No, no, no, I brought extra stuff.

From the field kit. You said you couldn't fit it in your bag, so I brought the active skin repair, which I love. Did we show that out? Did I miss that one? I don't know. At the beginning. Wait.

At the beginning. Active Skin Repair is the best thing for bug bites. It's good for you cut yourself. It's good if you have a baby for baby rash. So I brought that. I brought some band-aids. I brought some other stuff, some stuff that we need in the other kit.

The kits are really cool. They're very lightweight and you can fit a lot of stuff. I know you love our products, but I'm on the clock here really tight, very tight. But the point is we brought two kits because we maybe could have just done with one, but we brought two each. We're like making sure we bring a field kit.

I like the containers, they're very cool. We brought everything with us. All the travel stuff I created for the travel kit, I have, plus Susan brought some more. We're traveling for three weeks. And the skin repair. If anyone wants to know. Chris, yeah, we'll be gone next week.

Everybody will be out of New York the following week towards the middle of the week. So there we go with Jenny McCarthy actually, USC professor, businessman, author. The book is Feeding the Dragon Inside the Trilogy Dilemma Facing Hollywood, the NBA and American Business. You can imagine what it is he's talking about there. He's going to tell us, Chris, welcome to the program.

Yeah. Thanks for having me back. It's a little bit of a homecoming for us. Indeed. We, we worked on the original MTV love line together. Yep. And I remember going to that. I think the radio station was down in Culver city back when it was just audio and then putting that whole pilot together and all that stuff. It was bringing back 30 year old memories. The 30 or is it more? I don't want to think about it. All right. So Chris, what, tell us about the book and what, what's got you worried? Well, you know, the book I had come out, let's see, summer of 2020, it was not too long after COVID,

obviously, infected the world. And about a year after I did my last U.S. congressional delegation trip, we brought over three House members during the peak of the Hong Kong protests. And that was really a moment where I saw a lot of problems that we were starting to think were happening between the US and China that were actually really happening. We were fearing that perhaps Hong Kong was not going to stay completely free for 50 years

like was promised. We were proven correct on that assessment. I think 23 years was as long as they were able to hold that promise. It wasn't shortly thereafter that we found out our supply chain issues were completely taken into a space that was very detrimental to national security issues. When COVID hit and we realized a lot of our medical supplies were stuck in supply chain, uh, conundrums that were wrapped into the China manufacturing complex. And then coming out of that, we started to see a real pushback from Beijing

on various things that we thought they were very collaborative of, um, that turns out they weren't. So there's a lot of things that have been exacerbating, uh, since I would say 2018, 19. that turns out they weren't. So there's a lot of things that have been exacerbating since I would say 2018, 19, that was sort of my smack in the nose moment that I started to sense things

were going the wrong direction. But prior to that, we thought everything was hunky dory. And then we end up with a virus. I wonder if you have thoughts. You were there, at least nearby when that all happened. Yeah, we were, uh, late August of 2018. All right. I'm sorry. 2019. We were in China for about 12 days, Xian, Chengdu, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Macau and Beijing. So I hope I wasn't the one that brought it over

initially to the U.S. but the timing was around that period. Obviously we sort of really discovered it in December of that year. But we started seeing these ridiculous videos out of Wuhan of people dropping on the streets and taking selfies with a oxygen mask on and, and, and, you know, trucks rolling down the streets, squirting chlorine all over the places.

Oh, that would do anything. And it just looked to me like something that they knew was likely to happen. And the local communist leaders were just trying to impress their superiors by look we took care of it it's done you know you needn't worry about it is that what that was all about yeah well there's definitely a bottom up top down part of that system where there's a lot of fear based among all the different officials whether you're at a very local level municipal level level, provincial level, and then all the way up into central government.

So no one wants to report bad news up the chain of command. And I think that combined with various other puzzling problems that they weren't sure that they were fully comprehending really muddied sort of the ability to tackle the problem quickly and effectively and keep it from spreading outside of the country. So one of the sort of question mark, I have a thought bubble over my head

with a big question mark in it was, we were doing a lot of science with Chinese scientists around that time, but as you said, before things started looking problematic. And there was discourse between China and United States clinicians and scientists and public health officials. What was it those Chinese told our public health officials and scientists that got them so hoodwinked?

And what was the motivation for hoodwinking them the way they did? It seemed like they bought everything that these people were telling us, which all turned out to be wrong. Yeah, it all comes down to money, quite frankly. And what was interesting is that a moment that I think really woke up a lot of the American public

to the fact that maybe we're not getting a complete straight story out of China in terms of a lot of different narratives was earlier, pre-COVID, in the fall of 2019, Darrell Morey, the GM of the Houston Rockets tweeted out, fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong. And that was a tweet that he made outside of China that China heard and immediately punished the NBA over

in a way that made the NBA stumble and fumble on how to correctly respond to that and solve the issue. We saw Adam Silver come out and say, oh, no, no, no, no, no, he didn't mean that. And then Darrell Moore is saying, yeah, I did. And then, oh, we protect free speech, et cetera, et cetera. But it was that moment where you saw how carefully cultivated the narrative that Beijing wants

to create both inside of their country and outside. I think a lot of people knew there was lots of censorship that occurs inside of that country. And a lot of us were okay with that. In fact, us in the film business, we would cut all kinds of things out of movies in order to get those things through so they could be viewed by Chinese consumers

knowing they had to be censored or, knowing they had to be censored or being told they had to be censored. We didn't have a problem with that, but it was really when we saw Darryl Morey and the aftermath of that tweet around the world and the way China was dictating to the NBA what they can and can't do, where we realized, wait a minute,

they're trying to control narrative outside of their borders. And they're really trying to cultivate a certain messaging about the PRC. And that led into COVID, which I think a lot of us started to look at a lot of the different messaging that was coming out of Beijing about the pandemic,

about the sourcing of it and where it was. And then we started noticing the pressure points they were putting on various organizations, whether it was the WTO or say Dr. Fauci and the CDC here or whatever it was, because there was so many people, so many different parties with money tied up in that country. They had no other alternative than other to listen to Beijing and do what they were telling them to do. Wow, that's freaking crazy. And the thought that that same practice of censorship that was domestically perpetrated within China was immediately picked up over here. So is your theory that that all the stuff that Mike Benz is uncovering about the various organizations,

you know, colluding with the social media organizations and the government putting pressure on everybody to censor everybody in the, God knows the censorship that I suffered and many other people did, that all ultimately came from China? Well, China, it's very interesting. I mean, if you want to peel the onion back in a more

macro sense, I mean, obviously, you guys have studied the COVID pandemic and the and the controversies around various parts of that whole period of our history. But if you look at just sort of the macro sense of the way China tries to really control messaging and narrative both inside their country and out just look at the movie business I mean we can't put things such as criminals or drug abuse or dirty clothes on On clotheslines inside Shanghai We can't depict anything bad about that country in the television and films that we do

bad about that country and the television and films that we do, whether we want them released in China or not, because we have so much money coming from China in the Hollywood system. It's less than it used to be, but it's still there that we're beholden to them with all content, whether it's something that's going to play in the market or not. So if you peel it back even further to say circa 1980s, when I was growing up and in junior high and high school, when somebody said to me, what do you think of when you think of the Soviet Union? I would immediately think of sort of a gray, dreary,

Cold War type of thriller or a Gorky Park or something like that. And that was the way I thought of the Soviet Union. I never saw it in a blue sky and people happy walking around and milling. China's trying to do the opposite. There's generations of kids that have never seen, obviously, Tank Man,

the guy holding back the tanks during the Tiananmen Square June 4, 1989 episode. There's lots of kids that have never seen bad weather in China in the form of television or films. They've never seen drug use. They've never seen criminals. Or if they've seen criminals, they've only seen criminals get caught by the police.

So eventually, China is going to look like they're the ultimate system, the utopian part of society on a global basis to everyone, because no one's going to see any of the bad that happens inside of that country the same way it would happen anywhere else in the world. Not every country is perfect, but China wants to make it look perfect. So if you extrapolate that to COVID, you start to realize what that narrative was. you start to realize what that narrative was. Oh, so at least the heavy hand of China was in there. You could do feel it, you see it.

I'll give you one other example. Now we have- One other example. When you're in China, everything that you see on the news, every part of the news, anything that you got information wise, press wise is controlled by the Ministry of Propaganda. They don't want you to see certain things, particularly handguns or gun violence. But I happened to be there shooting Iron Man 3 late 2012 during Sandy Hook.

And I'll tell you what played the whole week I was on the ground in Beijing, 24 seven on every station, Sandy Hook and the Sandy Hook coverage. Why? Cause they wanted to make the United States look like the wild west, a completely violent place with no rules or laws and people shooting at each other. And look at us, Beijing, we run the best system in the world. That is the way they work

when it comes to manipulating narrative. And they're not far off. But anyway, but, but, but be that as it may, I'll take freedom over over that anytime. And I was also just thinking about when you were talking about the NBA's reaction to the Houston was the Houston's coaches comment. Of course, South Park, South Park immediately launched into predicting the future and actually did. I mean, if you watch the South Park episode

where they're all the different organizations are going to China and the way they sort of behave in relation to what it is they're doing, they predict the future better than, Simpsons are the family guy, the South Park boys, but in any event, back to the issue at hand here. So we're disconnecting, it seems like a bit from China. As you said, you don't have as much influence.

They, before I get here, I wanna talk about the propaganda. You said, talked about growing up in the 80s and you talked about, you know, the way you saw Russia at the time, and then you launched into the ministry of propaganda in China. Did you ever imagine when you were growing up in the eighties

that our government and our press would work in such propagandistic fashion as they have in the last eight years? It's unbelievable. It's terrible. It's something that has affected me personally. I've been a lifelong Democrat my whole life. I did come out and vote for Trump in the last election. But I can say when my book came out, there was a lot of hesitancy from the left side of the aisle

to allow me on those shows to talk about things that I experienced over 20 years working between the US and China. I have lots of Chinese friends. I love that country. I have a problem with Beijing, but for some reason the narrative was, oh, he's preaching Asian hate or he's being tough on China or ally.

And that's something that the right MAGA side of the aisle only deals with. So it was really disheartening. I mean, I could do Tucker Carlson's and Laura and Bartiromo as much as possible, but CNN would never have me on. And it was really, it was quite shocking to me to realize how bifurcated we were in terms of messaging and how

powerful that bifurcation of messaging is because as we're seeing if you happen to just watch one side of the aisles media versus another you're gonna get completely programmed in one particular way so a lot of times people ask me well how powerful is the ministry of propaganda in China for influencing people in that country? I'm sure they wanna uprise and overthrow the government someday and we should help them do that.

And I said, well, have you ever told somebody that just watches Fox all day or just watches MSNBC all day long about the other side of the equation, they won't listen to it. And that's the same thing in China. And I don't know if you saw the recent White House correspondence dinner where they gave an award to a guy that wrote a book about President Biden's decline. What? You're kidding. And he got up there and said, well, maybe we missed it,

but really the blame is the White House for not letting us see it. Mike, the reason I bring this up is you're reporters, reporting. You're supposed to report and investigate what is wrong with you. What do you mean you missed it? I was talking about it for three years

and somebody said, well, we're not physicians. So talk to a physician, do reporting, could get your information, get your sources, get your story together and report. But they're motivated reasoning and there's delusion on both sides, frankly, but especially on one side. And that this delusional process has people completely lost where they are

not only not seeing things because they are not only not seeing thing, because they're motivated to not see it, they attack anybody and silence anybody with an alternative opinion. And that is not American. That is completely un-American. And I feel like it's melting, it's loosening, but it's still there. Well, the bigger issue is that we just, without having civil discourse and the ability to look at things from different perspectives and to hear and talk about those different perspectives in a constructive environment, we're never going to be able to solve problems,

needlessly say even be able to prevent them down the road. I fear the fact that because of the way we've bifurcated everything and closed off other dissenting opinions in terms of the pandemic, we're actually never really going to figure out exactly what happened sort of the way the FAA might look at the black box. No, I think we will, Chris. I think we will, but we won't if we start going for like punitive actions. If we start trying to draw blood in people that did us wrong, so to speak,

whoever that might be or whatever it might be, they're gonna get defensive and they're gonna close it down and they're gonna get lawyers and you're never gonna find out what happened. While if we just kind of let's get to the truth and focus on that, it'll come. I see it coming, it's slowly that. It's, it'll come. I see it coming.

It's slowly moving. It's only going one direction and that's towards the truth. Now I've got about 10 minutes left with you and I wanna talk about tariffs, which is where I was trying to go this whole time. Tariffs. Yeah, tariffs. I have a couple of questions.

Go ahead, Susan, you wanna ask? So, you know the panic porn that we saw during the pandemic? Like if you open up your Apple, iPhone, all these crazy things would come up. And I was always thinking that it was produced by the PR machine in China. Do you think that there's any validity to that? Well, we rely on so many complex components

of things like iPhones that it would be hard to believe that there isn't some sort of manipulation that they're able to do. I mean, I've been heavy on lobbying to get rid of TikTok for that very reason. Obviously that's a platform that heavily skews one side of a narrative versus another.

We did ban it, at least in its form that it's in now, although it seems to still have some sort of clingy tissue that keeps it alive. But yes, Beijing plays a game of chess. They play a long-term game. If Israel can figure out how to let all the Hezbollah hang on to these phones for as long as they did and then use it at the right moment

when it creates that great chess move. You can guarantee Beijing can do the same thing, and they probably have been planning for that moment, and that scares me, it really does. Oh yeah. And so- One more question. Just quickly though, Caleb, you asked about Amazon reversal, what are you talking about there?

Yeah, so there was, it was a report today that Amazon was going to list the actual, like on the prices and the shipping, and then they were gonna list how much people were gonna have to be paying extra in tariffs. But then not long after, reportedly Trump actually called Jeff Bezos and then Amazon abandoned that plan.

So it was kind of a 24 hour, less than 24 hour thing that was gonna happen. Yeah, I thought that was an interesting one though. Because in a way you could argue, like showing calorie count at a restaurant, if you knew all this stuff was made in China, given all the issues that we have, it might start to influence people

to buy more American product. So I don't know if it was something we should have shied away from. I think we should have embraced it and said, the American people should know where these things are made. And then Susie, your other question. All right, who leaked the virus and was it intentional? Well, you know, there's a lot of stuff that's happening.

So stay with Chris. Chris's opinion here. I think the conspiracy to me is, is in the, I guess, incompetency of different levels of government in China that allowed it to spread. I think there's a lot of incompetency all over the world. We've all seen it in multiple facets. The idea that this was some planned attack on the world and it still affected their own people, which by the way, we have no idea the real numbers. I can tell you there's a lot of anecdotal evidence I have from people that have seen, you know, large crematoriums

and lots of different sort of coffins ordered for certain areas of that country. And there's a lot of speculation that the numbers were massively bigger than anything that we heard of. But to kill your own people just to get this thing out, it seems like there's probably a better way to do it. But the incompetency around it really allowed it to spread. And the fact that no one here came straight with the American public saying what we were actually doing over there and why we were doing it and the problem with what we were doing,

if it ever got out in the public, which it did, that was really just disheartening to a lot of us. We still haven't heard that with clarity and no one has stood up with absolute, you know, sort of honesty, open and honest reporting. And I'm not sure if they ever can, but that's kind of an interesting kind of question, but for another day, talk about tariffs.

Are you worried about it? Do you like it? What do you, do you have a crystal ball to sort of predict how that's going to work out? All right, well, I'm not an economist, but for my book, I did study quite a bit of macroeconomics in terms of our industrial revolution, how we built it in the 1800s,

and the fact that Alexander Hamilton really led that charge and created all kinds of trade protectionist policies to build our infant industries. A lot of that included tech and IP theft that we did to Europe to help build our own domestic competitors to theirs, the cotton gin, various other things that we did. A lot of what China's playbook today is based on.

So if you look at how we built our middle class, our industrial revolution, it was on the back of massive trade protectionist policies, which tariffs are a big part of China over the last 40 years has taken 700 million people out of extreme poverty and put them into a middle class using that exact playbook. So if you're a case study historian, you know that a hundred something years ago or 150 years ago, we did it. It worked over the last 40 years. China has done it and it worked on a much grander scale.

We can do it again because it's a proven concept, but we have to stick to very strong strategies and make sure that we stick with it, even with markets fluctuating and various other volatility that occurs because we do need time to onshore and bring back some of that manufacturing. That's important to not just national security issues, but also as manufacturing here in the U.S. tries to rebuild itself. What's going to happen to your business? Our business is in a state of massive disruption for a variety of reasons. I mean, Trump is probably the smallest part of looking at it from his trade policy.

I would like personally here in California to see more production come back. Los Angeles is supposed to be the headquarters of production and it has very little production in TV and film happening here. We offshore to New Zealand, to Canada, the EU, to Eastern Europe, various other countries around the world, we just don't make a lot, Ireland, UK, et cetera.

So I'd love to see that brought back. Those are great high paying jobs, and it allows us to control narrative globally. And that's really important if we want to be a world leader. We got to both lead by example, but we also got to pitch that narrative, pitch that messaging, that we are a leader, a leadership system that everybody else should want to emulate.

You're gonna have to get the current infrastructure, political infrastructure out of Sacramento then completely. We need oil refineries. We need electrical infrastructure. We need deregulation so you can bring your industry back with incentives ideally. We need building and development that, look, we can't even build in places that have burned down. It's gonna take 10 years to build there.

We need the coastal commission defang. There's so many things that need to be done. It seems impossible to me. It seems impossible. They're gonna have to wait until they have totally destroyed the state. Then maybe some nascent Hollywood industry can reestablish itself.

Yeah, you keep looking for those, you can look for those tipping points that are maybe gonna swing the pendulum back to a centrist or a constructive sort of form of government. And it seemed like even the fires might've been that. And I don't know if the fires were. Yeah. No, they weren't.

That's the point. They woke a lot of people up because they realized that's what we voted for, but they've not been able to make the next leap is we have to completely change the people that are in the state government. We have to, or it's just gonna be completely devastated. It's just, it seems to be the plan.

So dumb. Yeah, Susan, anything else I've got to kind of hit to? No, no, no, no, no, I know. Yeah, I don't wanna take you off the track. Go ahead, give us your most paranoid thought about China. I do have paranoid thought. I figured. So before the pandemic,

I remember Trump slapped some tariffs on China, which kind of basically really- Pissed them off. Ruined their economy at the time. And like I had a friend who used to make pillows and the woman who made the the mofies for Apple and, there was so much money flowing in back and forth in between us and China.

And then it just stopped and I remember they were very angry and their whole economy fell apart. And I was just wondering if it was kind of an F you to Trump because of that, the whole pandemic. Well, or the way they manage the pandemic. Because that was really the beginning of it, I think. Maybe. There's no way you could say it definitely wasn't. I sometimes really have a hard time believing

there's enough competence to pull off something on that grand scale. And that's involving the sacrifice of many of their own people in order to get it out. I just think there was a lot of incompetency that led to what happened and the incompetency of trying to solve the problem immediately just exacerbated everything, amplified it. And then all of the various compromised entities, people with money involved with various things, trying to cover it up or spin a different direction. It just, it was a confederacy of dunces.

Yeah, yeah. So should people be following you at the Dragon Feeder? Is that where most, you want people to go? Where else should people find you? Yeah, at the Dragon Feeder? Is that where most of the, you want people to go? Where else should people find you? Yeah, at the Dragon Feeder is great. I'm on Instagram too, also if anybody's interested. But Twitter X is where I really like to put out my thoughts. And I really try to tie what I've learned

between the US and China into a lot of the issues that we have here in the US. You know, one big macro note, just believe, especially for Susan, since she's so interested in China is a lot of people say, hey, I think preoccupied is a better word. Preoccupied. Go ahead. If you want to just think of one thing that you need to think of in terms of way Beijing makes decisions, it's

all comes down to they want to figure out how to make 1.4 billion people just happy enough that they don't revolt. There's just not enough resources on earth to make all those people happy. They just want to make them happy enough that they don't have another 1989. And part of that is providing tangible things that allow them to have what they need and some of what they want, and then creating a narrative that fills in the gap that they don't have. I've heard analyses like that around sort of how COVID went

and what they were worried about. And that was there that we it's hard for us to think that way. But that's a motivating concern they have in the choices they make. That's really an interesting point. All right, I'm gonna follow you at the Dragon Feeder. Chris, I believe we'll be talking again soon, so I appreciate you being here. Thank you so, so much.

Thanks for having me, guys. Cheers, you got it. So- Happy enough. Yes, coming up, we have Rom you again. That's not happy. Yeah, when you think about that as a priority, it gets weird. You think, why do you make decisions you make

so people don't revolt? What do you say, 1.4 billion people? Yeah, well that's how many they have. That's a lot of people. Elijah will be in here tomorrow, but like I said, I'll be on his show today, Elijah Schafer, you're in it tomorrow, with Rom Yocandro, who I talked about earlier in the show.

I think we have Jenny McCarthy, let's see. I can't quite. On the 16th. What's Jenny McCarthy. Let's see, I can't quite. On the 16th. What's on May 1st though? I can't quite read that. No, 15. The 16th. Kayla, help me with that.

Dana Loesch. Dana Loesch. Dana Loesch. David Zweig. Yeah, it's always hard to. Then on the 15th, Jenny McCarthy. David Zweig. David Zweig has been very active lately out there.

Very interesting. How do you say that, Zweig? Yeah. And then Jenny McCarthy, Gary Bracka coming on the 16th and Colter on the 29th. So we got a lot of great guests coming up on the 20th. Oh, Jim. Oh, I couldn't see that Tim. Oh my God. Look at that lineup. We should be, you should tweet their Instagram. That lineup.

It's pretty, pretty big ones. And we have a lot of dates in between these that are going to get filled in. Those are just the big ones we have so far. Well that, but we're gone, we'll be here tomorrow, but we're gone next week and then we're gonna come. No, we're here for two days. We're here tomorrow and Thursday. Oh, we're here tomorrow and Thursday, okay.

Yeah, and then we're taking a week off unless you guys want Dr. Kelly victory, but if you can live without us. And then we'll be back the following week. Well, 10 days, we'll be gone. Yeah, so. We hadn't really thought about having Kelly on. Well, let's look at what people are saying. Yeah. We hadn't really thought about having Kelly on.

Well, let's look at what people are saying. Let's look at people. People always love Kelly. So if Kelly can come on and. If that's what they want, we're looking at the. Emily doesn't want to come on. Yeah, so Caleb was counting on a week off here. He's like, ugh.

A week off, yeah. The whole week is going to be editing all those White House videos, getting all of those up, all those great interviews that you did over at the White House a few days ago. And- Did you have fun? You haven't told anybody about it yet.

Did you have fun? Yeah, let's talk about the White House. Caleb Nation. Absolutely. Oh man, what a trip. You had a good time? I felt, I feel so much better just about our country now. I feel like when I was walking around there,

I met a lot of people that were in my age group who were the people producing things, the people running things, a lot of millennials, a lot of people who have kids. And I felt like, well, there's people that are in Washington right now that are speaking for my interest. And especially Dr. J Bhattacharya, just knowing that he's there, I feel so much just safer.

I feel so much safer with my health. I feel like I'm not being lied to anymore. Did you hear or meet Dylan? Did you, I know you were busy when I was doing that interview. What a boss. I mean, full boss. But if, I mean.

It was in the other room. Yeah, I mean, that she was the one that put me over the top. I'm like, oh my God, there's so much good that's gonna get done here. These people, and she was saying, she kept saying the same thing. This me over the top. I'm like, oh my God, there's so much good that's gonna get done here. And she kept saying the same thing, this is going to happen, I'm going to do this. And I believe from when she says stuff like that.

All right, I gotta go do Elijah Schaefer. If people out there don't understand, Drew was invited to the White House to do like a press thing and Caleb went instead of me and he did a fabulous job recording it and he's editing it and it's really been a great experience for all of us to get that opportunity and we just really appreciate them inviting us.

All right, we will see you tomorrow. We're gonna be back on our usual time. Is that correct, everybody? Tomorrow we're doing a six o'clock Eastern, three o'clock Western. Three o'clock, all right, we'll see you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute

for medical care, diagnosis or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the

contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me, call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations

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