Ask Dr. Drew - It’s Bigger Than Epstein: Child Trafficking Rescuer Lois Lee & John McKinney Discuss The Larger Battle Against Human Slavery & Rising Crime – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 267

Starting point is 00:00:00 welcome everyone i hope to speak to john mckinney later in the show he is a candidate for district attorney of los angeles he is a presently assistant assistant district attorney and he has been challenging uh current lada george gascon there's a lot to talk about there but first we are going to welcome lois lee the founder and president of children of the night an incredible organization i've been aware of for as long as I've been a physician. Child trafficking and prostitution, she has been saving children for over 45 years. Over 10,000 young women have been saved by this organization,

Starting point is 00:00:37 and she knows all the dirty secrets about child trafficking and prostitution. She wrote a book in 1973 called The Pimp and His Game, and it has been the basis of her training for quite some time. Again, this is an extraordinary organization, and she's going to give us an update. And child trafficking is obviously something top of mind these days, and she's going to discuss how the open border has multiplied the problem profoundly. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre.

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Starting point is 00:03:58 to get 10% off today. Just click on that link. As I said, we hope to speak john mckinney later in the show but right now i'm going to welcome lois lee the pimp in his game was the book uh revolutionary some now 45 years ago or so she is an expert in child trafficking and prostitution been saving children for over 45 years and uh you can let's see if we can get you to her website. I don't know if I have the information. I'll get that from her in a second. But I've been aware of Children of the Night for the longest time.

Starting point is 00:04:31 They are an extraordinary organization. You can learn more at childrenofthenight.org. I remember I used to do work fundraising for them 40 years ago, and they've always been at the forefront of helping young children on the streets of Hollywood here in Southern California. Please welcome Dr. Lois Lee. Thank you, Dr. Chiu. Hey, Lois, welcome.

Starting point is 00:04:54 You bet. I mean, this organization, I was in awe of it back, I did some fundraising back in the early 90s. At that time, tell me something what was there more of a global focus at that point on just homeless kids or were you strictly then focused because my recollection is we were worrying about homeless kids generally i've always been involved just in children who are prostitutes i use the word prostitutes i don't try and cover it with homelessness or sex trafficking or any of the other terms um prostituted kids are at the lowest bottom of the rung and they're

Starting point is 00:05:30 denied services by all the other organizations so no i've never i've never incorporated the other populations names okay and it's males and females you treat, right? Males, females, and transgender. Right. That must have been interesting when that all started happening. We're really trying to break the cycle of child prostitution. So we have many kids that live with us in our shelter home who are pregnant or have had babies. And so now we say our population is zero to 24. Because if you don't help those kids and teach them you know and give them resources in order to raise their own children then you just complete the cycle and you've done nothing

Starting point is 00:06:11 and it's a finite uh population of kids it's not big enough for the government so that's why they have to call it child sex trafficking so they can encompass other populations but even prostituting kids are not welcome in the child traffic sad i read that you were concerned about what the what the uh the cartels are bringing to the table now in terms of the wide open border and the the trafficking that's going on like 85 000 kids unaccounted for in this country what are you seeing at the ground level there? Well, we know that they're sexually abused in the trafficking process. And we also know that many times the families know that particularly the teen girls are going to get arrested and arrested, not arrested, I'm sorry, they're going to get raped. They're going to get abused. It's part of the payment, so to speak, for the coyote to bring them through.

Starting point is 00:07:07 And unfortunately, we're seeing younger and younger kids who have gone through that experience to where they've been gang raped and they've screamed for so long. They've lost their ability to speak. They've lost their ability to scream. We also, though, but we're seeing them quickly absorbed. And I'm not quite sure where they're being absorbed because they're not as visible on the streets as other populations. Our focus has been in the last year has been on Figueroa Boulevard, which is one of the in Los Angeles, which is one of the most dangerous areas where prostitutes work. In fact, the pimps refer to that street as, um, punishment row.

Starting point is 00:07:43 And we have, um, first went down and covered it with our, our outreach efforts and pimps refer to that street as punishment row. And we have first went down and covered it with our outreach efforts. And pimps, of course, Crips, it's all controlled by Crips, have tore that information down. We just put billboards right over their head and they're trying to pull those down. And we're at war with them. They don't want the girls to know that their service is available. The community is so afraid that they don't want to help, they don't want to open the doors, they don't want to talk to anyone. Their stores have been destroyed. And there's middle schools right down there in the middle of that area. The police are very active,

Starting point is 00:08:16 but they're only limited in terms of they may be able to do an arrest, but they can't do a prosecution unless they have a witness. And so we've decided to be those witnesses and to take that on. Downtown Los Angeles has become an area where I suspect a lot of the immigrant children are being worked. But also a lot of these children are being absorbed in foster care. Now, we have a high school graduation every year. And when we teach kids how to pass the GED, we do it through Zoom all over the nation, kids that are prostitutes. And we just had a graduation and it was the first time we had three unaccompanied minors, kids from Venezuela, Mexico, and I think the other one was

Starting point is 00:08:57 from Colombia, I'm not sure. So we're starting to see that population and we're going to continue to serve them because they are trafficked. They are prostituted. They're forced to do things that they wouldn't ordinarily do. You talk about Punishment Row being Figueroa. Does that go all the way from Highland Park through the downtown area? This is not what I think of as the usual regions for this kind of thing. Is that the area we're talking about no it's it's really further south than that um it's down by it's the numbered streets actually and um and that's where

Starting point is 00:09:35 we are and um it's not it's not necessarily in the community there are homes in that area. There are middle schools in that area. So it's southeast of our area. I get it. I get it. And when you say the numbered street, I know what you mean. And so you mentioned that the gangs are in charge of everything. I keep hearing sort of, I don't even want to call them rumors, that the gangs are sort of in charge of where the homeless people are sleeping, what happens to women once they're out on the street. Are there any anti-gang interventions underway? Not anything that I see that's really, really effective.

Starting point is 00:10:19 And it's really a result of congressional acts that made prostituting a girl under the age of 14 life in prison. They made the sentencing of pimping so severe that oftentimes they do gang rape them, they prostitute them a little bit, but they engage them in other kinds of crimes. Many of our children are in jail. You're 13 years old. You've been given a lot of meth. And, hey, let's go for a ride. And you get to drive. And little did she know that they're going to be shooting out the window. So now she's associated with the murder and they will hold her for the murder. They changed the law in 219, I think it was, where they said that anyone who had contact with a child sex trafficking victim,

Starting point is 00:11:02 they had to call the human trafficking hotline which was a front for the fbi what that meant is that the fbi would go out and interview the child and if she was connected to a pimp she would go into juvenile hall and be held on a material witness hold which is an undetermined amount of time um until she testified and if she wasn't them the parental rights were terminated and she's forced into foster care. And of course, all the kids ran. And there were about 200 major pimps in America. We put most of them in prison. We worked side by side with the Department of Justice and local police and was very, very effective. But then there's this big open space and in came the Crips and they controlled everything and they ran out the sweet talking pimps and many of them were in jail. And it's a whole new ballgame. And it's rougher. We have

Starting point is 00:11:50 calls from, we don't typically work so much with the police. I have friends in the police department. I work with them in the community. But when kids call us, we don't call the police so much. We have parents who call us, who tell us that the Crips have their children and that the police offered to help. And they went down to Los Angeles, downtown Los Angeles. And when they saw the police, the Crips circled the girls, pulled their weapons and the police left because they were outnumbered. And they said, how do I get my daughter? If we involve the police, they will burn my mother's home. They'll burn our home. They'll kill our other kids. What are we going to do? And so we talked it through in terms of do you talk to your daughter? Does she call you under what circumstances? Could we get her in an Uber?

Starting point is 00:12:33 Because we're 24-7. Could we transport her to the airport? And we have a really good relationship with TSA and fly her home. And the problem is, is it's very much like the domestic violence victim, which you would know more than I, to where they do often go back and that endangers everyone. So it's a really tough, tough situation, but we continue to do it. And we never say no, or we never say you've had your chance our our support's unconditional my understanding is you were having some good results with getting the not decriminalized completely but less criminalization of what was these kids were doing and more sort of a therapeutic point of view is that still something you're having success with and what is it you're doing to break that tendency to go back?

Starting point is 00:13:27 Well, what's happened is that they no longer arrest them for prostitution. Presumably, you can't arrest a child for prostitution. And so there's no record. We have a problem now with girls that were arrested 10 years ago who have completed nursing school. They've completed a CNA school, other professions, and they can't clear a background check. Now, given that the public defender's office and the legislature has the information that she was 15, the ID was fake, here's her fingerprints, here's her current birth certificate, it shows

Starting point is 00:14:00 she was a minor when she was arrested, will you seal it? No, they don't have the same feelings towards girls before this this this new law took place and it's really really unfair because we have a lot of young women who have created all their completed all of their professional credentials and they can't go anywhere still they're not back on the streets but the attitudes are very different um and uh these kids are still used as pawns in the political game of being witnesses against other kinds of criminals because they see so much. And that's very scary. You know, I picked up a law degree several years ago because I saw the FBI moving in and trying to separate the kids from children of the night so that I had access to them through the jails and through juvenile hall.

Starting point is 00:14:47 And they were not happy about it at all. And they were screaming in court. And the judge said, I will never deny a child access to a lawyer. She's a lawyer and she can come in and see them anytime she wants. But you get them out of one situation and oftentimes they fall back into another situation. The gangs are very, very compelling. They are a family. They may be the family they never had.

Starting point is 00:15:08 They may have a connection, an attachment they didn't have with their own family. It's a continual battle. People are afraid. And somebody had to take it on. And we went in to Figueroa at the request of LAPD to help. And what kind of techniques are you using to try to intervene? What are the therapeutics? How is this cycle, this tendency to go back,

Starting point is 00:15:34 this traumatic attachment that they have? What are you guys doing? Well, basically, we do the entire child. I mean, in terms of everything from hair to makeup to clothing to, to schooling, to training them, to show them, to giving them the sample GED test to show them they're not that far from having a high school diploma. We'll pay for books and school supplies. We have scholarships. We will tutor them and we will help them repair the relationships with their family. And many of them are from all over the United States. L.A. is kind of a Mecca for many of them are from all over the united states la is kind of a mecca for many of them and so they are then um placed with therapists we have volunteer therapists throughout the country in their hometown and uh and and all the therapies are different we've used everything from emdr

Starting point is 00:16:17 which is a pretty dramatic therapy um i am not real fond of it, but I have seen it work with girls who are really strong. And it takes long term. You know, it's not like you get involved in prostitution, you know, in a minute. It's something that starts out usually by early childhood sexual molestation, the loss of sexual dignity, whether it was gang rape. you always find that as a precursor to prostitution. And that often needs to be resolved before you can even move into the other things. We're nonjudgmental. We don't really make an issue out of it, but we're there for anything. We've even used hypnosis.

Starting point is 00:17:00 Yeah, you said something that I have found to be the case consistently, which is childhood sexual abuse is often precursor to many of these later in childhood or adult sex work. And it is, in my mind, a traumatic reenactment. Humans have this extraordinary propensity to reenact trauma from their childhood they just keep going back to it until you eliminate or reintegrate the trauma into what the body's doing they they go back but that does take a lot of traumatic trauma-informed therapies of various types as you were saying are there people out here that help with that as well yeah there's people all over the place we have about eight you know volunteer therapists who will see our kids for free um but what the pimp says to

Starting point is 00:17:51 the girl is you know first of all many of these children are sold for drugs and their parents were drug addicts and oftentimes their parents are nodding out on a bed while a drug dealer is is is having sex with a nine-year-old there she she is at 11 on the streets in an area she shouldn't be. At an hour of night, she shouldn't be. And up pulls the car guys, and they go, hey, you want to go to a party? Now it's like, you know, you don't have to let your dad do that to you, your uncle or your mom do that to you. You can have fine hair, you can have nails, you can have clothes.

Starting point is 00:18:21 We're going to take care of you. You'll go to shows. You'll get to meet movie stars. And let's face it. I mean, being a prostitute, you have access to every walk of life from major politicians to movie stars, to musicians, to people who are in the media all the time. And a pimp will say, I can show you how to have sex, that reenactment that you just mentioned, without a loss of dignity where you can control the sex and you can get paid for it. And so that's how he rationalizes her entry into prostitution. And so she feels like she's in control.

Starting point is 00:19:06 And it's a very powerful argument and the problem is is the kinds of people they have access to they would never have access to if they weren't prostitutes yeah that's it's very interesting that game the pimps played is just you know to give the locus of control the seeming locus of control back to the child and also giving all these secondary rewards it's diabolical it's it's wild are we not going if indeed these are public figures and as you said public servants even using these uh services are we not going after these people is there something wrong in our system that way yes there is there's lots and lots of cover-ups. I'm on the board of directors of a group, and I'd love to see you join, called EpsteinJustice.org, where we are trying to do everything we can to force government to prosecute the public officials that were involved as customers of Epstein's exploitation of those girls, and I know many of the victims, was something that was pretty wide open, well known about very, very wealthy people. Men were involved in even some women and the reluctance.

Starting point is 00:20:14 I mean, the lawyer who started this, a friend of mine, started the prosecution of Epstein way back in the 80s. The Department of Justice went after his law license when he started this. He's the same one who interviewed Prince Andrew. And the Queen had moved him out of the country when he went into London to do the deposition. And we're talking about an entrenchment of very wealthy, powerful people who are hiding this and who are participating. And you can't convince me that they aren't participating in the same way under some other kind of regime.

Starting point is 00:20:52 And we need as many people as we can to really put pressure on the government, Department of Justice, to do something. It feels bizarre slash conspiratorial slash ineffable that we have gangs running the streets in Los Angeles. We have gangs stealing from the homeless and renting the sidewalk space. We have gangs determining the drug and prostitution trafficking on the streets of Los Angeles. And we have this strange protection against finding out what actually happened with the Epstein case. Do these things tie together in some way? And if not, what is your theory about Epstein? My theory about Epstein is that he was a pedophile and that he was connected. I don't know that he really had any clear source of income. It seems to me that very wealthy people ran, gave him money in order to run this

Starting point is 00:21:52 operation to buy the mansion and buy the island. Nobody really knows for sure. I have the Epstein books. Many of us do. We're radicals. We can't publish it because he was connected to so many well-established people who we know were not customers. So that would be really lifeless to do something like that. But it's just the attitude towards women and children. And it's not just girls. We're talking about boys, too. You know, a friend of mine that worked for Washington, D.C. Vice, they went in a lot of the people that do the police security in Washington, D.C. at night. They work in the nightclubs and where there's boys, men, politicians that go in and have sex with boys. And they their police chief at one point. This is not true now, but at one point would not write search warrants, would not sign search warrants for Friday and Saturday nights. And so when they went in on a Sunday night, the Capitol Police said, boy, you should have been here last night to see everybody that was

Starting point is 00:22:53 here last night. So the tolerance for this and the encouragement and the prestige that comes from being part of this is something that is so perverse and really needs to be changed in our basic value system. And I'm not quite sure how to do that. I mean, I'm doing all the work that I can. I can't do it alone. Yeah, I think part of it is this weird gloss slash denial we put over. we've been through a phase for the last 10 years of denial of how the human species operates both in terms of our priority systems our motivational systems our spiritual lives and how we behave in these highly traumatizing and and frankly exploitative situations and drug

Starting point is 00:23:43 addiction to which is often part of this whole thing right i mean a lot of these kids are applied with drugs and the progressive nature of these things and where these things end up it is not some of them end up in well lots of them end up in demise and there's massive massive denial about that it's very disturbing to have to sit by and knowing where these things go and listening to politicians just gloss it over as just uh you know all we need is a little you know housing that's it we'll put on a hotel we'll be good that'll be the end of all this it's it's uh we i it's uncandid it's ineffable but i i keep hearing rumors the, and I just want to get your opinion about it since I know people are preoccupied with this, that the, the Epstein story might be God knows who, um, putting him up as essentially a blackmail ring, taking footage, getting people to engage in these horrible things, documenting it, and then holding that over their head. And that's how he made his money, and that's how the governments,

Starting point is 00:24:45 and I put a plural on that, used him as a means to leverage and manipulate people. Anything to that? There's no question in my mind that that happened. Who was actually responsible for it, I don't know. Yeah, it does seem likely, doesn't it? And it also then fits with why they would be covering it up, right? Because if you start to pull that yarn, you're going to start to learn what these incredibly insane, what the governments were up to, what they've been doing, and how unethical they can become. Which, again, the world we live in now, I would never have really understood.

Starting point is 00:25:23 I would not have put a lot of emphasis on something like that, or I would have thought, eh, maybe. But now I'm starting to, I'm open to a lot of ideas I wasn't open to before as more and more comes to light about the way the bureaucracies operate, not just in other countries, in this country too. And what you're talking about is the fallout of some of this.

Starting point is 00:25:44 Is there a root cause? I don't know. Where did perversion come from? I don't know. I mean, I guess you could argue that the adults doing this were sexually abused themselves. I don't know that I buy that with some of the powerful men that were actually using these children. But it makes it very difficult raising children today when you're trying to teach them that maybe their hero is not such a hero. And where do they go and what do they believe in? And I mean, because even in churches, you have priests who are violating children. Where do you go?

Starting point is 00:26:21 You know, in government, everywhere. It's become acceptable. And it's gotten worse. It's gotten much worse, I think, in the last 30 years. Well, that's what I wanted to ask you. That's what I wanted to ask you. I mean, you've been doing this for multiple decades. You've had some real success with it.

Starting point is 00:26:39 Did it get better for a while and get worse? Is the horse completely out of the barn right now and is it galloping along what's your sort of sense of where we are now that's my one question and the other question is how do you how do you get up every day and do the work and keep a smile on your face well the question is how do you go to sleep at night knowing that there's so much to be done getting up doesn't seem to be a problem because I get up with a full agenda of things that I need to do that I may have forgotten to do the day before. It's far worse. I was originally doing research on police reports filed by the Los Angeles Police Department and arguing that an equal number of men needed to be arrested or that they needed to abolish the law altogether.

Starting point is 00:27:24 And so I was really working with adult prostitutes, just so I thought. And boom, ran right into the Hillside Strangler investigation and children working as prostitutes. And the police were furious with me and kept calling me a liar. And we had one particular little girl who was 13, who was 5'11", fully developed. And I called the women's jail and said, I need her moved to juvenile hall. And I had enough credibility at the point that the lieutenant moved her to juvenile hall. And I went to the juvenile court two days later when she was scheduled to appear. And everybody said, what are you doing here? And I said, I'm here for that 13-year-old girl, Linda.

Starting point is 00:27:58 He said, oh, my God. They said the judge looked at her yesterday and said, I don't know what Lois Lee is doing. That's an adult. I've never seen one. Sent her back to the adult jail and then i called lapd again and fortunately someone there said okay i'll challenge you you go to her mother and have her mother go the sheriff's station teletype her birth certificate to us and if she's a juvenile i'll see that she's pulled out and the police were screaming get lois Lee out of our system. Our system's fine. And they were very angry with me. And he called me up and he said, okay, she's a juvenile. We've all got it. So I taught the police that many of these girls passing as adults were children. Now that was not the case before 1979. What had happened is Congress

Starting point is 00:28:41 had changed a law that said the police could no longer arrest children for running away, curfew, or truancy. So the police hands were tied. They couldn't do anything with kids on the street. The same mother was on the street with a police officer and said, there's my daughter. She's 13 years old. She's with the 60-year-old guy who's a felon, a parolee, and I need you to get her away. And he said, ma'am, I can't do anything. But if you can get her to admit that he had sex with her,

Starting point is 00:29:09 I can put her in jail for a longer period of time. So the laws were really backward and were really empty handed. And I take great pride in changing all of that. But now we have even more, the environment, the music, the culture, everything kind of embraces it, makes it cool. Many of the kids we have, you know, sometimes their mothers were prostitutes or, you know, not just molested by dads at home. It's they're in this culture that breeds this kind of behavior. And you see it on television. You see movies all the time.

Starting point is 00:29:44 So it's really very difficult. And it's not something that's going to turn around quick. And the only thing that saves grace for us is that we have a position of unconditional love. And one of my program directors who's with me 25 years when she quit, she said, I just, you seem to be able to ride the roller coaster with these kids. I just can't do it anymore. And because it's up and it's down and you got a job and everything's going great. And then boom, she's back on heroin and back on the streets. And you got to go pick her up out of the gutter. And it is a roller coaster.

Starting point is 00:30:16 It's tough. I'm guessing, you know, I had similar experience treating drug addicts generally. But you see the recoveries are so spectacular and often surprising. They come out of nowhere. It gives you hope for all of them. Are you having that experience? Always, always. And you just, I wish I could tell you which one was going to make it, which one wasn't in the beginning.

Starting point is 00:30:39 You can't. So you have the same amount of energy with all of them. And oftentimes it's a surprise. But I tell you, our graduation ceremony, what a thrill it was for everyone that bring these young ladies in. We have Beverly Hills hairdressers who donated their services to do their hair because we compete with the pimps. You know, he can do that for you. Let me show you what we can do. And we have a group of great volunteers who make their lives wonderful. Universal Studios

Starting point is 00:31:05 gave them free tickets. They stayed at the Sheraton Universal. And one young lady said, I'm in a hotel room by myself. And she's taking video and sending it to her friends. And it was interesting because when they came out and we had the welcome dinner, they were just sitting there and they were just kind of looking around like, okay, so these people got me my GED. me flew me into los angeles here i am what's next what do they want from me and my alumni who have been through the program and are all very very successful professionals i realized that we weren't just clicking and i finally said to the alumni would you please share your story with these kids? And when they did, it was like, you, you too?

Starting point is 00:31:47 And it was like, then it was chitter chatter, chitter chatter, and everybody was very close. So it's an amazing journey and it's heartwarming. I mean, the highs are as high as the lows are low. Of course, the alumni piece is very important and can continue to grow and be a rich source of a resource for you guys. I have to take a little break here. Can you stay with me? Sure. Excellent.

Starting point is 00:32:13 Lois Lee is here. We're going to take a little break and we'll be right back. More about children of the night. Maybe take some calls after this of Lois up for that. Up for that? Stay with it. Be right back. Thank you. I want to share with you a teeth whitening system that goes beyond merely enhancing your smile.

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Starting point is 00:34:25 Don't wait. It's GenuCell.com slash Drew. G-E-N-U-C-E-L.com slash D-R-E-W. So what we're going to do after I talk to Lois a little bit more, we are out on Twitter spaces. And if you want to come up and ask myself or Lois a question you just raise your hand over on the spaces in fact Caleb has a little cartoon that will show you how to do it here and once I do call you up you will be streaming out on multiple platforms Twitter Twitch Facebook everywhere YouTube and you have to mute see how the cartoon works you have to mute that little button down there also when the call is pulled up to the podium.

Starting point is 00:35:06 So if you raise your hand, I will look for you there. You just ask, you just request to be a speaker. So, Lois, it is breathtaking to hear your stories, I got to tell you. And do you have, do you think about the fact that it is getting worse and that the culture is sick, right? The culture is influencing people in ways that are making them sick. Is there anything we can do to sort of push back other than talk about these things, raise awareness about it? I remember when I started Loveline years ago, that was my little naive notion that rock and roll and rock and roll radio in particular was having a very negative effect on people's choices and health. And I thought, well, we can crawl into the same environment and try to make it do something good. If it's been such a powerful force for bad, it certainly could be a powerful force for good.

Starting point is 00:36:00 I don't know where the opportunities are in today's culture, though. Well, I think our first opportunity is to work with our politicians. They need to be cleaned out. I don't think there's any question about it. I think Americans have lost their faith in what's going on in Washington. We have the power of the vote in order to voice our opinion, in order to do something. I don't tend to lean either way. But I hear some things come out of Washington that is just not acceptable. And I

Starting point is 00:36:26 think that people that are in the public eye that are looked up to, whether by youth or other adults and stuff that are caught performing sex acts with children or pornography, I think they should be held to a higher standard and punished more severely. I also think that there should be more of an outing, that there should be an opportunity for victims to be heard. And I think that we need to join together and start by insisting that the participants of the Epstein circle be prosecuted, that they be outed and they be prosecuted. It was a lot more than just principle. That might be the place, right? I mean, that would be so public.

Starting point is 00:37:12 It would be, you know, it's something you really put your finger on that would affect, I think, the culture in a very profound way. If you really outed what was going on and then held people accountable it would certainly put the conversation at a new level wouldn't it and then if you're able to say hey not you know not it's epstein it's epstein but look at what's going on you know in the streets of los angeles for instance but you know you mentioned what's going on in washington but here we are in southern california i mean the bigger problem is is California, isn't it? I keep hearing California leads the nation.

Starting point is 00:37:49 Say that again. I'm sorry. It's a worldwide problem. It's worldwide. And I've been all over the, not all over the world, but I've traveled to different parts of the world. We're now tutoring children who live in Christian homes and other NGOs in Africa and Ecuador. And they also have some kind of nexus to prostitution. And many of the pedophiles that go there to see them are Americans or English and Germans.

Starting point is 00:38:14 So and the Americans, I think, have a pretty good, I mean, penalty. I mean, they pick them up, they bring them back. They're in prison for life. But the French, I don't think, have many laws at all in terms of the abuse of kids in these countries. Many of these children, their parents are prostitutes. And in many of the cultures, the oldest girl is expected to do whatever it is that she can do in order to support her family. And through karma, she'll come back and have a better life. That's one of the reasons we tutor them for english and for math because of the fact that um they can get other jobs to support their families rather than through prostitution because they don't get to make that much money through prostitution and much of it's taken from them anyway it's it's a

Starting point is 00:39:00 worldwide problem and uh we need to clean up our own backyard americans are very good at pointing their fingers at other countries and saying, look what you're doing, look what you're doing. And I don't know why we think that we can go around and rate other countries in terms of how they're doing with their child sexual exploitation problem when we don't look at our own backyard. And Epstein is a perfect example. Are you fighting any other headwinds culturally or ethnically? Or I'm wondering what else gets in the way of being able to have these conversations more readily, more frequently, more publicly? Well, I stay out of politics pretty much because I don't find it very useful. There are a lot of bills in Washington about sex trafficking because it's a safe bill to have. Everybody's going to vote for it. You look like you're doing something.

Starting point is 00:39:49 But they're all done without looking at the social consequence. And many of them, they cross, they contradict one another. And so they become absolutely ineffective. When providing money in order to provide, you know, some kind of Mickey Mouse help, you know. Those efforts are usually used as a base for law enforcement to use those children as witnesses and put them in very dangerous situations to testify against very dangerous customers. I don't, we're too law enforcement heavy in terms of our funding with child sex trafficking and not victim enough. I don't know if you saw the film Sound of Freedom.

Starting point is 00:40:31 I thought it was an excellent film. But, you know, that's only half the story, going out and rescuing those children. The other part is what do you do when you have them? And you can't return them to parents who sold them in the first place. Nobody wants to talk about what to do with them afterwards. Everybody was hungry about, I can't tell you how many police officers who are dear friends, who I really respect, who tell me that when they retire, they're going to set up a rescue organization. Well, how exciting, but what are you going to do with those kids? And they all want to partner with me and I'm

Starting point is 00:41:02 taking care of as many kids as I can. So, and I do it all with private money. I don all want to partner with me and i'm taking care of as many kids as i can so and i do it all with private money i don't want to i don't want to get involved with government in any way whatsoever um because i don't find that they have our children's best interest at heart ultimately it just becomes a bureaucratic mess and bureaucracies do not serve humans. Yeah. You need, you need, yeah. I get it. Yeah. This is sort of breathtaking to me. I, I, cause I know what the treatment requirements are of the kinds of psychopathologies and addictions and things that you're contending with. How do you find, you know, we have a massive shortage in California and Southern California, particularly of psychologists, psychiatrists, particularly psychologists, hospital beds, residential programs, you know, they're, they're raining money down on keeping people sick, frankly, but the,

Starting point is 00:41:55 none of that money is used to expand services per se. I mean, they're essentially operating hospitals without doctors and nurses. What do you do to staff yourselves? Well, I have paid staff. I have 24 paid staff. My budget's about $2 million a year. It's all private money. But I also have an incredible outreach of professionals, dentists, doctors, Beverly Hills dermatologists who remove tattoos.

Starting point is 00:42:22 We don't have shabby services. We have people who are really good, clean, successful professionals who are willing to help a child with an individual problem when we need that help. And I've been very fortunate to be able to meet these people. And many times I've met them when I've gone to the dentist myself or I've gone to get my eyes checked and word gets out. And I try and profile as many of them as I can on my website. And I mean, we even have an expert IEP person. I can send her anywhere in the country and she'll go in.

Starting point is 00:42:54 And after the IEP is done, she knows how to interpret the test, how to demand other tests are done, to see that there's funding through educational resources in order to pay for residential care for a child. So there's a lot of corruption in social services, too. So, you know, the money that's supposed to be spent on kids are oftentimes spent on administration and other things. That's not fair and that's not right. That's the part that kills me.

Starting point is 00:43:23 Yeah. Yeah, that more money is spent oftentimes on the, you know, the administration of healthcare, which is, that has expanded spectacularly in the last 30 years. I want to, again, mention people. We're out on spaces. And if you, I'm going to let you bring you and Caleb in just a second. Raise your hand if you want to come up and talk to Lois or myself. And again, you're out on multiple platforms if you do. And i'll call you up and make sure you unmute your mic after i

Starting point is 00:43:48 do so we do think we're going to have john kenny maybe in here at the top of the hour uh to talk about really i'm curious to talk to him about these do you work with uh any of the candidates for da right now no i don't work with politicians i have friends that are judges who help me out of jams i've had prosecutors in every jurisdiction that's helped me it's all a one-on-one individual um situation but i really look forward to a change in the district attorney in los angeles what is going on is criminal and in the office yeah yeah uh kayla be able to question yes yeah we should we could uh bring him in in just a minute here but i you had mentioned sound of freedom and it made me wonder are you are you familiar with the whole q anon belief about the underground cabal of elite

Starting point is 00:44:35 politicians trafficking kids you've heard of that dr lee the internet thing it's called q anon it's like it's like a political movement thing i've heard about q anon trafficking kids i've heard about q anon i know people that belong to q anon i've not heard about no no no his point is that we want you to debunk i want you to debunk something for him which is that there are people that believe there's a cabal of you know right powerful elites that that are that are masterminding child trafficking rings. Right. What do you say to that?

Starting point is 00:45:07 I think it's less formal than that. I think there's another Jeffrey Epstein operating somewhere. Maybe it's a woman. There's always those operators. But in terms of QAnon, I just kind of see that as a right-wing, radical, philosophical, political organization. Well, so that, yeah, that was my question is so it's like with stuff things like that that it's obviously born from the internet it's like obviously 50

Starting point is 00:45:30 percent of it 50 is facts then the other 50 it's getting drowned out by the other 50 which is just total nonsense and made up for internet points and going viral but do movements like q anon or i guess the satanic panic would have been one from a few decades ago. Do those ever actually do anything to help the cause by bringing awareness to the issue? Or are they just turn into big distractions from the real causes of human trafficking? That's a good question. I worked with the FBI on the satanic panic. And we had I worked with one of the young girl who was the niece of Anton LaVey, who was the head of the satanic church in San Francisco.

Starting point is 00:46:09 And we worked with other kids who had satanic reports. We had kids living in a condemned building that were doing satanic rituals, kid rituals, basically mean, cruel, painful, some deadly. But it was not really satanic. And a meeting with the FBI, and it was a really good team that I worked with, they said that they really could never find a good, strong witness that wasn't schizophrenic. They had some things where wealthy men had brought Mexican children from Mexico here and raised them in their homes and abused them and everything. And they were doing some innovative things like as part of when they caught the guy as part of his prosecution and sentencing was that he was required to pay for her upbringing as well as her full college and other money. So, but they're all individual things. Is there an organization?

Starting point is 00:47:01 No, there's somebody running prostitution. There's somebody, you know, I promise you that. There's somebody who's running boys. There's someone who's running transgenders. The transgender thing, and I want to talk about generals, when pimps, who were, they call it on the low, but they were gay, they took over Santa Monica Boulevard. And they were paying, they were using the money to pay to transgender some of the boys into girls for the purposes of prostitution. And there were 11 and 12 and 13-year-old boys that were stealing birth control pills from our girls in our drop-in centers so that they wouldn't develop female hormones. It's an issue I'm very, very familiar with. I think that too much is made of it. I think it's something that really belongs in the hospitals. I don't like the social movement around it. I don't like the schools involved in it. I can't think of a group of less qualified people, and I'm sure you'd agree with me, Dr. Drew, to be dealing with this kind of serious issue. And I don't like the fact that parents are cut out.

Starting point is 00:48:11 And I keep saying that my profession has to, I see sometimes where they really do help these kids. I see sometimes where they make things a lot worse, which means to me they haven't yet figured out what the right treatment for the correct patient is yet. And that's a very serious problem. They have out that's on us what is the exact right treatment for the exact right patient and it's not definitely not a one-size-fits-all and it's not something that you know our patients don't determine their part they participate in their treatment but it's on us to really recommend the correct treatment. And I mean, we get it right sometimes. I've seen it, but boy, sometimes they don't. And that means they don't know quite yet exactly how to do that. I'll tell you what, I'm, I mean, I do not, as always, I don't understand why people are involved in healthcare and the, and the,

Starting point is 00:49:00 the irrational certainty, irrational certainty is a certainty is a epidemic right now. People should have rational uncertainty about medical conditions. And people who are not medically trained to have irrational certainty about something, that is potential for real destruction. In fact, when doctors become irrationally certain, it can be a problematic thing too. We have to keep our mind open all the time. So Lois, it has been a real privilege to talk to you. What can people do if they want to support the organization? They can go to our website, childrenofthenight.org, and you can donate right then and there because

Starting point is 00:49:36 we are privately supported. I can't do the job I do without you and I need your help. And I really would like to encourage you, Dr. Drew, to join EpsteinJustice.org and help us flesh this out. That and maybe I can help with the on the addiction side a little bit as a resource of some type. Great. Okay, well, great, Lois. Good to see you, too. And thank you so much for all you do. And I'm breathtaking by all of this. So thank you. Thank you. All right. So that is Lois Lee at ChildoftheNight.org. Now we're going to switch gears. Well, no, we're

Starting point is 00:50:14 not going to switch gears that much, to be fair. We are going to bring in a candidate for district attorney here in Los Angeles. That is John Kenny. We're hoping the technical stuff works right away. is there some technical stuff we'll see John McKinney rather

Starting point is 00:50:29 let me give you some specifics 25 years of crime fighting experience he throughout his career prosecuted high profile cases including a first degree murder conviction against the killer of Nipsey Hussle you can find out more. You can follow him at McKinney, M-C-K-I-N-N-E-Y.

Starting point is 00:50:50 Let me get this right. McKinneyforLA.com. And also follow him on X or Twitter at John Joe H-N, McKinney, M-C-K-I-N-N-E-Y. Please welcome our DA candidate, John McKinney. Good afternoon, Doug. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me. So we just, it's a pleasure to have you, my friend.

Starting point is 00:51:14 We just finished a long conversation with Lois Lee from Children of the Night. And one of the things that jumped out at me, I'm going to go right to it just because it's on my mind right now. And I'll let you talk about many other things. But this one topic is really under my skin right now. She was talking about how the gangs control the child trafficking right now. I've been aware of how the gangs control literally the sidewalks, how they engage women in sexual exploitation when they're on the streets. They take people's disability checks as a means to be able to stay in their tents. I mean, there's all kinds of wild stuff going on on the streets with gangs.

Starting point is 00:51:58 Is the district attorney's office aware of this? Have they turned a blind eye to it? What is that all about? Well, we are aware of it here in Los Angeles. The district attorney himself is aware of it, but he has turned a blind eye to it. Maybe not so much a blind eye. It's just that he doesn't care. He doesn't care that gang members are overtaking our society. Now it's not just slinging dope on the corners. It's getting involved in all manners of crime, including the exploitation of children. You know, Dr. Drew, he on day

Starting point is 00:52:37 one tied the hands of us prosecutors by not allowing us to prosecute crimes as gang crimes. We have a specific enhancement in our law here in California that allows us to go after gang members more harshly because we all recognize as citizens of California how dangerous gangs are. I mean, it is organized crime. And when they're allowed to commit crime, unlike a single individual, they're allowed to reach more people and do it in a more organized way, in a more impactful way. But George Gascon won't let us use that allegation. So gang crime is running amok and it's exploitation of children, it's shootings, it's, of course, selling drugs and all the ancillary crime that goes along with that. I would love to, I don't know how to ask this question other than in the following way.

Starting point is 00:53:39 What does he believe he's doing? I just would love to know. I'm always trying to understand the other side of the table. I'm sure you have to do that all the time too in your work. What does he imagine he's doing? And I spoke to him once and I raised the possibility of things spiraling the way they have. And he said to me, I'm a numbers man. I'm going to look at the numbers and I'll respond to the numbers when they occur. Now, I never imagined that at the time that serious crime would be lowered to misdemeanors and then the cops would be unable to track these people and that all the level of misdemeanor action respond as he i guess it's an unfair to ask you this question but what does he imagine he's doing what is the what is going on what is this i've been asked that question a lot and i've tried to answer it many times and i end up sounding just about as crazy as his ideas every time i try to explain him. He clearly isn't a numbers man, unless the only number he cares about is the lower number of incarcerated individuals, but the higher number of victims. He seems to be comfortable with that. He may be, I think, only focused on how many people

Starting point is 00:55:03 are in jail without regard for how many people that those who get out of custody, and they don't all go on to hurt other people, but a lot of them do. He doesn't care. He doesn't care about the consequences of letting these people out. He doesn't care about the consequences on public safety, on the safety of individuals, on our businesses, on our children who have to walk through some very dangerous circumstances each day to and from school. It doesn't seem to bother him. He lacks empathy, you know, and every good district attorney has to be empathetic, has to be able to relate to what people are going through in the community in order to do a good job. And he doesn't seem to have that gene, unfortunately.

Starting point is 00:55:47 That is quite an indictment. I hope it's not quite as bad as you suggest, because it has diagnostic implications if he really lacks that gene. But I'm not going to go further with that. But how do you function in an office like that? Are there like-minded assistant DAs in the office or is it a constant warfare in the LA District Attorney's office? You know, morale is very low right now. It's as low as it's been in my 25 years as a district

Starting point is 00:56:18 attorney. We've lost a lot of good and talented people to other agencies. We have a lot of people waiting to see the outcome of this election before deciding whether to stay or go. But, you know, we are remarkably holding up and doing a good job as individual prosecutors trying to meet out as much justice as we can on our individual cases. He has not broken our spirit. He's hurt us because we're not allowed to do the work that we went into public service to do. He's hurt police officers whose work means less now that you have a DA who's not giving meaning to their investigations. He's hurt victims. He's hurt business owners. But we're hanging in. We're fighting for LA. And part of the reason I'm running for district attorney is to fight for LA, to save this county, to restore common sense and balance to our criminal justice system. That's what I'm here for. it certainly seems like the average person should be aware of what's going on but i've got to say i've gotten very worried about the california voting public it's i i don't they they fall

Starting point is 00:57:34 victim to persuasion and propaganda do you worry about that i do You know, this whole criminal justice reform experiment that we are the subjects of started about 10 years ago. And the voters, unfortunately, and I think because they were misled, have been complicit in agreeing to some of these catastrophically bad laws, including Proposition 47, which I know you know, has done a couple of things. It has increased the number of theft crimes that we see in our community, and it eviscerated our drug courts, which was really the last line of defense and the best vehicle we had for helping to get drug addicts into treatment and was successful in a significant percentage of cases. George Gascon takes credit for writing that law. Unfortunately,

Starting point is 00:58:34 voters passed that law and a few others that have contributed to this problem. Yeah, it's 4757AB109. In addition to not being able to go after, to get drug addicts into treatment, you've made it somebody, the voters did it, made it a misdemeanor to use drugs, to traffic drugs below a certain level, to steal to support your habit. That is manslaughter, humbly i i you want to if you want to take out a case i i want a case against the people who are actively through

Starting point is 00:59:12 negligence contributing to the demise of people with a progressive illness who are dying at the rate of six a day on our streets in la county that is a disgusting situation that is i i i've been beside myself for five years watching this happen 10 years maybe now it's horrific we're watching people die in slow motion these are people that many of us walk by every day and over time we see them deteriorating. It's not progressive, not compassionate. There's nothing good about it. But the progressive, I want to be sure to make this clear. The progression is the illness of addiction. The addiction is a progressive illness, meaning it progresses, not progressive politically. It progresses and ends in death. Especially opiate addiction, it is highly predictable.

Starting point is 01:00:09 And even if I, John, even if I'm the one administering the heroin as a doctor, I go and give it to them in carefully managed doses and a sterile technique, that person still progresses and dies and this is something that has been that and the the neurobiological process of something called anosognosia which is the ability to see what your illness is doing to you that's part of major mental illness is you lose that capacity whether it's addiction or schizophrenia bipolar so they can't see what's happening to them and that has been privileged in the law yeah no i did i wasn't commenting, on the medical progression of it. You know, there are people out there who consider themselves progressive politically. And what I was saying is there's nothing progressively good about watching people die on the street, whether it's the mentally ill or the drug addicted or both. Yeah. It's just, it's just uncanny. So tell me your story. How did you,

Starting point is 01:01:12 where'd you grow up? How'd you get to the public service? Why are you running? Well, you know, my story is tied to my work and ultimately why I i am running i was orphaned at five years old i lost my mother when i was two years old i lost my father when i was five my eldest sister became my legal guardian and raised me along with four other children by herself oh my god we grew up i hope she uh we have a shrine built in her honor and a place in heaven reserved for her. She is a real-life superhero, made a lot of personal sacrifices for her family. You know, this was a woman, Dr. Drew, who worked six days a week through sickness and health. I'm sure we would have qualified for all kind of government benefits, but she was too proud to take anything.

Starting point is 01:02:04 She said, that's for people who truly need it. And as long as I can get out of bed, I don't need it. I don't know, John, you're a good guy, but I don't want to talk to you anymore. I want to talk to her. You got to put her out in front of your campaign if she's still with us. I hope she is because that's somebody

Starting point is 01:02:18 we need to elevate her status immediately. My sister is alive and in Georgia these days, she's not well enough to travel. And I can tell you all of my competitors in this race are lucky that my sister can't come out here. She's the star of my own story. I love to talk about it. I get it. Dr. Drew, I talked about my sister in my original interview with then District Attorney Gil Garcetti. And halfway through the interview, he asked for her number because he wanted to talk to her. So she really is a special person. Oh, my gosh.

Starting point is 01:02:58 I get it. She raised me in a low-income, high-crime environment. So I was immersed in a criminal environment through my teens and into my early 20s. But I was at certain values instilled in me by her. And I had a healthy fear of law enforcement. You know, I didn't have a D.A. who was excusing all manner of criminal behavior. So I knew if I got caught doing something bad, there was going to be a consequence. So I worked hard, man. And I was persistent and I paid my way through college and law school and ultimately landed a job with the LA County District Attorney

Starting point is 01:03:37 where I have been for the past 25 years, devoting my life to the pursuit of justice on behalf of victims and the community at large. Well, I thank you for your service on behalf of everyone here in Los Angeles. You mentioned being aware of consequences and adjusting your behavior accordingly. You mentioned progressivism. What is it about the present moment that there seems to be such massive denial about the realities of human behavior? Massive. How humans work, their motivational systems. These are not mysterious processes. They're actually pretty simple. And have we decided that the human has been reconstructed in a new image or we can reconstruct them in a new image or what what is going on here man you know we know how to prosecute crime we've been doing it

Starting point is 01:04:33 fairly well not perfectly but fairly well for a long time i started in the da's office in the 90s when violent crime was about 200% higher than it is today. And from the 90s up until today, up until a few years ago, crime dropped steadily in our big cities across the country, including here in Los Angeles. So we know what works. If the goal is community safety, if the goal is less crime, we know what works.

Starting point is 01:05:07 But all of a sudden in the last few years, it seems like there's been massive amnesia and we've been overtaken by people who have this idea that they're smarter than every judge and every lawyer and every generation that helped to evolve our law over many generations. And that somehow they're going to go into a room after they tear this all down and come up with something better than we have before. It's crazy. It's nuts. But somehow the public went along with this idea at least for a few years but i think i think people have had enough in los angeles county they're fed up they're angry and they're ready for change well i i think to be fair to the public um we kept hearing that there was excessive incarceration of african-american men nobody liked that liked that. I wanted to see that improved. And I'm very sympathetic to that.

Starting point is 01:06:09 I think that's an important goal. But to ignore other crimes and victims, it has to be a proper balance. I don't know quite how to achieve that balance, of course. That's the professionals. that's you guys. But there's that on one hand, which people are sympathetic to on the other, I believe they were in the public was manipulated. I mean, many of the propositions and things, the way

Starting point is 01:06:36 they were sold to the public, which is verging on lies. And then there needs to be some some accountability for that to the people that public has to understand what they're voting for. Right? Yeah, no, it has to be some accountability for that, too. The public has to understand what they're voting for. Right, yeah. There has to be some truth in the title of the propositions, because let's face it, a lot of people don't read anything other than the title if they read that much. But you know what we have to do? Because I'm very concerned about the disproportionate number of African-American males and Hispanic males in our criminal justice system. It's terrible. It is a crisis. It's a criminal law crisis.

Starting point is 01:07:13 It's a it's a health crisis, really. And it's generational in length. You know, a lot of district attorneys have come and gone. Police chiefs, sheriffs, border supervisors, elected officials of all stripes and parties, but these numbers persist, and they're going to persist until we get serious about the crime that precedes their entry into the criminal justice system. There is real crime going on in the communities that are resulting in real victims. And if we want to bring down a number of young black and Hispanic boys and young men who are arrested, we have to change their behavior. And it has to start earlier in their lives.

Starting point is 01:07:55 We have to change the pathology that is leading to the criminal behavior that leads to convictions and then jail and prison sentences. What George Gascon is doing is he's trying to do this the easy way. He's decriminalizing what should be criminal behavior. And then he's saying, look, I've prosecuted fewer African-Americans and Hispanics. That's cheating. That's cheating. And that's not making anybody's lives better. Or he's rushing to get people out of jails and prison before they have been properly rehabilitated.

Starting point is 01:08:26 That's cheating. No, if we want to do this right, we really have to have that hard conversation with communities. And that's why I think my life experience uniquely qualifies me for this job, Dr. Drew, because I can go into any living room from the South side to the West side, to the East side and sit down and be relatable to the person in that room, because I can point to things in my life that are authentic and genuine that they can relate to. This won't be just some government official telling them what to do. This is somebody that can respect because I was where they are. And that's the kind of leadership we need. Those are two really interesting frames, the frame of cheating. I think that's a very powerful way to frame what's going on here. It's exactly what it is. It's like, if you can't pass

Starting point is 01:09:19 a test or some threshold, we'll just lower the threshold. That's cheating. That's cheating. I agree with you, number one. And number two, to start to look at these things as health issues is a very powerful way of thinking about this as well. Unfortunately, we are grotesquely underserved in terms of our mental health services and how we deliver those services, but that doesn't mean we can't do it and do a better job. I really admire what you better job. I really, I admire what you're doing. I appreciate your work. Where do people go if they'd like to support your cause? Well, a couple of different places. You mentioned my website, mckinney4la.com.

Starting point is 01:09:57 There's some interesting things about me on the website and there's an opportunity for people to support my campaign financially. Every campaign needs that kind of support. So if you like what I have to say and you like what I've done over my life and my career, you think I'm the best choice for LA County DA, you can support me on the website. Another place where people can find some very interesting content and where I show up frequently to interact with people is on my Instagram at John McKinney, J-O-H-N-M-C-K-I-N-E-Y underscore, John McKinney underscore, same address for Twitter. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to say that. Of course. And you seem like a great

Starting point is 01:10:41 guy. So if there's things we can do to support you, I hope you'll let us know. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Drew. Mr. McKinney, thank you for getting justice for Nipsey Hussle. Thank you. Oh, you know what? That's a whole nother story. We can come on and talk about Nipsey, what he was before his death, what he was at the time of his death and what he would have been had he not been killed. That's a whole fascinating subject i get i get a little emotional when i think about it yeah that was a this one of the saddest days so thank you yeah thank you thanks john hope to talk to you again soon good luck all right thank you guys take care my friend you bet john m McKinney. So there we go. It's been kind of an interesting show, a little bit different topics than we normally cover. Susan,

Starting point is 01:11:29 any thoughts as I sort of. I'm glad that he had a good sound system. That's what I stress out. I'm like, he's awesome. He's great. He's interesting and he's good looking. And I have been very,

Starting point is 01:11:47 the gas cones of the country really are causing so much harm. And I, like we said, like when you vote, who's voting. And when you're voting for propositions, read the whole paragraph, not just what it says at the top,

Starting point is 01:12:03 because it's misleading. That's how they get you to change laws. That's exactly right. There's a lot coming our way where they're going to do that nonsense again. Didn't your dad have a policy where if there was any, he was no on everything. No on everything, which was not a bad policy. Really, it wasn't. Caleb, how'd you get so wrapped up in nipsey hustle um i i didn't know him but i we've

Starting point is 01:12:26 there have been uh friends of friends that that knew him and his amazing work he was he was like a modern poet he was uh yeah just set up to almost go hugely on the national stage and he was still i guess a lot of people still considered him a somewhat underground artist but he was putting all his money his efforts right back into his own community he was having businesses that he wouldn't go to other cities he would go back to his own communities start up businesses there and then hire people from his community to try and bring the whole community up with him and then this dude comes and shoots him this is he was it's almost like he was doing missionary work in a way with his music and just his whole

Starting point is 01:13:04 transformation in his life and it was when i saw that i just i couldn't believe like surely it's almost like he was doing missionary work in a way with his music and just his whole transformation in his life and it was when i saw that i just i couldn't believe like surely it's not who would hate nipsey hustle and i it was it was so shocking and so i was when i saw that in this guy's bio i was like wow it's someone got justice yeah i was very appreciative yeah this was the guy susan don't you have an appointment? Were you supposed to abandon us here? Yeah, I got to get my nails done. Okay, we'll see you later. Caleb, what's coming up? We have, I believe, Ed Dowd coming back on Tuesday. I saw a pretty interesting tweet that...

Starting point is 01:13:39 My brain is so fried today. I must tell you, um, your friend, uh, the feminine mystique, Susan, help us. Naomi Wolf. Naomi Wolf. Naomi Wolf put out a tweet today that was, uh, let me see if I can find it for you here. I don't think I have it, but she was saying she and Ed Dowd, uh, exposed some, some extraordinary numbers. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:03 Let's bring her in too. Well, perhaps we will. And, it's, it sounds like some numbers are coming forward that again, surprise, surprise, things are going in a certain direction. And Ed is there at the forefront, keeping us informed. So he will do so on Tuesday. And so and Wednesday, of course, Kelly joins us again. So give us till next week at Tuesday, 3 o'clock. We have a different time, I believe, on Wednesday.

Starting point is 01:14:28 Is that true, Caleb? I think we're at 1 o'clock on Wednesday. Yes, we're at 1 o'clock on Wednesday and back to 3 o'clock on Thursday. There we are. Is Thursday? We don't have the Thursday guest. Not that one yet.

Starting point is 01:14:42 Okay. Okay, we'll get that to you when we know it, but I think, uh, our, our audience loves Ed Dowd. So it'll be great to bring him back for you all and do support the guests today. I mean, these are really impressive people doing impressive things. And if you inclined at all to support, um, social causes, I mean, here are people really making a difference on the ground. And hopefully John will be our new DA. That would be a breath of fresh air in this

Starting point is 01:15:10 town. Thank you so much for being here, and we will see you on Tuesday at 3 o'clock with A Doubt. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment.

Starting point is 01:15:25 This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911.

Starting point is 01:15:55 If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.

Ask Dr. Drew - It’s Bigger Than Epstein: Child Trafficking Rescuer Lois Lee & John McKinney Discuss The Larger Battle Against Human Slavery & Rising Crime – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 267

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