Ask Dr. Drew - Jerry Seinfeld Says Modern Comedy Ruined By Comedians Who Are Too Afraid of “Offending Other People” w/ Kyle Lucey & Dr. Kat Lindley – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 355

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

Kyle Lucey is a Canadian comedian who was ‘canceled’ by colleagues for telling a story about his own childhood. Is Jerry Seinfeld right about modern comedy being “ruined” by comedians who are too afraid of offending? Kyle’s debut comedy special, “Damaged Goods” is available on all platforms. Follow Kyle at https://instagram.com/kyleluceycomedy and find his tour dates at https://kylelucey.com/tour Dr. Kat Lindley is a Croatian-born, American-trained board-certified family physician with a direct primary care practice in Texas. Dr. Lindley is the President and co-founder of Global Health Project. Follow her at https://x.com/KLVeritas and read more at https://GlobalHealthProject.org 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • PDS DEBT is offering a free debt analysis. It only takes thirty seconds. Get yours at https://PDSDEBT.com/DRDREW • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • COZY EARTH - Susan and Drew love Cozy Earth's sheets & clothing made with super-soft viscose from bamboo! Use code DREW to save up to 40% at https://drdrew.com/cozy • TRU NIAGEN - For almost a decade, Dr. Drew has been taking a healthy-aging supplement called Tru Niagen, which uses a patented form of Nicotinamide Riboside to boost NAD levels. Use code DREW for 20% off at https://drdrew.com/truniagen • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 GEAR 」 • NANLITE - Dr. Drew upgraded his studio with Nanlite: the best lighting for film, TV, and live streaming podcasts. Bring your vision to life at https://drdrew.com/nanlite 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 AFFILIATES 」 Some of the links from this show are affiliate links, and as an Amazon Associate, we may earn an affiliate commission from qualifying purchases – at no cost to you. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician with over 35 years of national radio, NYT bestselling books, and countless TV shows bearing his name. He's known for Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Teen Mom OG (MTV), The Masked Singer (FOX), multiple hit podcasts, and the iconic Loveline radio show. Dr. Drew Pinsky received his undergraduate degree from Amherst College and his M.D. from the University of Southern California, School of Medicine. Read more at https://drdrew.com/about Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We have a very interesting program coming for you today. First up, Kyle Lucey is a Canadian comedian who was canceled. Shocking. Cancellation has been rampant. Canceled by his colleagues and a little known fact about the comedy world. It's a little high school-y. He told a story about his own childhood and was canceled. His debut comedy special, Damaged Goods, is available on all platforms.

And I want to sort of poke into what's going on in comedy. This is on the heels of Jerry Seinfeld making a little news, talking about you can't be funny anymore the way we should be able to be and the importance of comedy. So I want to talk to him about that. And then later in the show, Kat Lindley comes in. She is from the Global Health Project. She's a family practitioner. She's going to update us on a few things and including the World Health Organization and some issues as it pertains to the 10th Amendment. So we will get right with it after this. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of

social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying. You go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals.

Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want help stopping, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. Well, Mother's Day is upon us, and GenuCell's Mother's Day sale has arrived as well. Perfect timing because Susan and I have upgraded our bundles with even more of our favorite skincare products now for over 50% off. We've been working with GenuCell for almost two years.

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plus free shipping. That is Genucel.com slash Drew. G-E-N-U-C-E-L dot com slash D-R-E-W. So again, thank you for joining us today. Next week we'll be out in Miami. Peter McCullough joins us on Tuesday. I may be with Adam Carolla in Salt Lake City

tomorrow night. Keep an eye out for that. There's the upcoming guest, Paul Alexander, now scheduled on the 14th. May 9th, I think Dr. Victor may be with us. Joseph Latipo, Aaron Cariotti. If you, you know, Joe Latipo is the Surgeon General of Florida. Aaron Cariotti is a psychiatrist,

head of bioethics at UC Berkeley. He was fired for daring to question the ethical import, the ethical power of being able to mandate things like vaccines, whether you can actually do that ethically. How dare he? And he's now one of the lead, what do you call them? Defendants, I guess, or plaintiffs in what was originally Missouri versus Biden and now before the Supreme Court. Today, as I said, Kat Lindley coming in in a little while, a family practitioner. You can follow her on X at KLVeritas, also globalhealthproject.org. But right now, we're bringing in Kyle Lucey.

You can follow Kyle on Instagram, Kyle Lucey Comedy. Now I have to spell his name out for you. It's K-Y-L-E-E, it's Kyle Lucey, L-U-C-E-Y Comedy. His tour dates are available at kylelucy.com forward slash tour. Kyle, welcome to the program. Hi, Dr. Drew. Yo, thanks so much for having me. This is part of me.

It's a little laggy here. Can you hear me? There is lagginess, and you just keep forging ahead all back off. So, yeah, I noticed today is a little more lag than yesterday. And so don't worry about it. Just keep pushing on. But I'll tell you what, this issue of comedy has been, you know, obviously I worked with Corolla for all these years

and it's been sort of top of mind for me. And I kept saying during the pandemic, where are the comedians? I mean, eventually they ended up showing up in drive-in theaters with people in their cars. Think how insane that was. People in their cars watching their comedic performances, but they should have been obliterating people for doing such stupid shit. But what happened to you? Yeah, I mean, it was a very weird thing,

obviously, with COVID. It just obliterated live entertainment. And comedy, unlike any other art form, you can't paint in your garage. You can't jam with your friends or tune your guitar. So our entire art form was removed from us. So no one could really work on their stuff. You got comedians at the highest level and open micers all in a similar position which was quite surreal so we sort of had to basically survive off of like artistic

rations and whatever show you could sort of get you would do and that could be you know a show in a park a show in a basement you just sort of had to comply with whatever the government mandated and it was um mentally an extremely difficult uh situation because you know comedians aren't the most stable people and uh without our i mean yeah without that's like therapy basically for a lot of us and i'm not you know that my special is damaged goods. That's very true. I suffer from a lot of different things and comedy is the glue that keeps me together. And without that,

myself and a lot of other comedians definitely went through some turmoil, but it's nice that things are back now. And what was it that got you, first of all, two questions. What part of Canada were you in during the dark hours? Was the lockdown in Canada

enforced across Canada equally? And what was the story that got you canceled? So yeah, I was in Toronto and I mean, there was different parts of Canada that had, it was basically the same thing. Different parts had like slightly different regulations, like, you know, the suburbs of Toronto, you could have indoor gatherings, whereas in Toronto, there were none. on how many cases were basically prevalent within any district at any given time. And that sort of

determined whether or not you can congregate. So you were told. So you were told. Yeah, honestly, right. And my story is a very nuanced and tricky one. Because I was doing an outside comedy show and um a lot of my act is basically talking about you know i come from a very um abusive household and i suffered through pgst and stuff like that and i have material about how my mom you know she was she was like violent to me and she sexualized me and i've been in therapy for 10 years it really did mess me up and comedy has been something that has saved my life um and so i have material about it and in so i'll set the stage i'm on the stage which is basically just a piece of wood in a park. And we had an amp and we had a mic.

And there's like 20 people that I'm doing stand-up to. And, you know, I've been doing comedy for 13 years. And I'm a headliner in Canada. And I'm with the biggest talent agency there, which is Yuck Yucks. And I know what I'm doing. Like, I'm not a new comic. So I'm doing well. Like, I'm killing for the crowd. That being said, you know,

I guess COVID forced comedy outside. We are in a public park. There were people like, I want to say 50 feet away that just saw like this guy on stage, say the word rape. Mind you, I was saying my mom, like it was a joke my mom never raped me but i have a joke about it because one time she tried to sexualize me and um they didn't even know what the hell i was really talking about they came up to me they swarmed me physically pushed our amp over and like aggressively got in our face and they got it on video and you know i posted it to sort of say like can you believe like what comics deal with you know there's a lot of um you know uh comics that you know you look at the chris rock incident

um where you're just a lot of comics are. I've had beer cans just thrown up my head if someone didn't like my joke. And it's like, in no other art form is that permissible. And then, you know, something that I think that I deal with is, and I don't know how to quite say this, but if I was a marginalized group and I understand that as a white man,

you know, I deal with lots of privileges, but when I talk about, um, any abuse that I have faced or any turmoil that I've been through, suddenly I'm not like confessing something. I'm not, whereas I would have been celebrated for being brave. If I was of a different group,

I'm being edgy. I'm trying to get the shock and, you know, people I'm constantly categorized as that. And it just makes me feel so contrived to the point where. Wait a minute. That somebody, as somebody, by telling factually your story with a comedic twist that somehow that is like so bizarre the the thinking you should go on the offense this is so insane that the people should be should be mocked they should be mocked mercilessly for you using first of all these things happen and they happened a lot 20 and 30 years ago and to make comedy of it is how

you get people to look at their own shit they digest it they can accept it more you can process it better all comedians do some of this stuff as you say comedians you know sort of a lot of comedy comes out of trauma i mean that's a common thing the fact that i it should be it should be literally illegal for them to come after you for telling your story. There should be some sort of liability, whether it's libel or something that you could something, but, or get out of Canada, which is even more crazy. Can you go after any of these people?

Would it have to be on social media? Or do you know any of these people are? I mean, we should all, you should gather a little army together and go after them. This incents, this takes people with trauma and not just marginalizes them, it re-traumatizes them. And this is disgusting. So, on you. No, you hit the nail on the head.

I mean, yeah. I mean, what ended up happening is people found my name. And I believe it was my Facebook page that it said, Kyle Lucy, comedian at Yuck Yucks. Producer of a show I produced at the time at this club. Actor at, I don't even want to say their names, but the acting agency I was with. They clicked on all the links and said, did you know that you have like this, like piece of shit basically on your roster? Nobody did any digging. My acting agency fired me.

And then you should sue them. You should sue them. You should sue them. I swear to God. This is what's his, what's a, what's the comedian's name that we were with up in San Jose with? Tyler?

Tyler. Yeah, Tyler. I can't remember his last name. He's been on Gutfeld. Tyler. He's suing his agency because they fired him for being white and did it on the record. And so he's suing them. I've heard about that.

And so it's like, okay, people want to break the law and do completely inappropriate stuff. They should suffer the consequences. We've got to take action against these people. They must be mocked. They must be mercilessly sort of face the consequences of their... This isn't a little bit aggressive. This is attempts to destroy somebody. It's just shy of actual... Look, in the Soviet Union, when they needed to silence somebody, their move was to get them so they couldn't be employed. They didn't kill many people.

Well, what about TikTok? What about TikTok? They want to take that away too. A lot of comedians use that for their... I would argue that that's a complicated situation with tiktok what do you say and businesses kyle what do you think about that yeah i know is i mean i'm just a comedian i know you have geniuses on this podcast but um to my knowledge i think it's because it's a chinese owned and they sort of want an american

version of it that's sort of my knowledge of it, even though- Well, they just want to not have propaganda. Tyler Durk. No, not Tyler Durk. But what about the people who make a living doing it that have a real estate agent or the comedians like your mom's house? No, no. Because it's kind of complicated. My suspicion is everyone's worried about the Chinese ownership and the fact that they won't hand over control of it. So therefore, they're getting something out of it that they need from what we call a national security standpoint. By the same token, get ready, everybody, because now it will become a national security asset

for our intelligence agency. But it's ruining our economy, though. We're doing that to ourselves. It's complicated, I would say. And there will be something that replaces it, believe me. The question is what? So anyway, let's stay with comedy. So I'm incensed and angry and outraged. And I mean, really, I do believe that particularly when it comes to mental health issues and medical issues, generally cases like we in medical school, we study cases. That's how we learn when people, when people are courageous enough to share their

case with other people, it's extremely instructive. It lowers the barrier for care. It decreases their denial. It's all the things we want from a health standpoint and whoever it is that was going after you should be shamed and mocked for their behavior. I totally agree. And still to this day, I'm not sure who it was. It was some sort of mob. And I had a comedy club that had my side still say, we can't work you. Because they're like, we've been closed down for like almost two years and we don't want oh these people are like i'm getting other fish oh right on nice

there's the there's the tweet we i'll read it i'm currently suing a talent manager who told me they won't work with me because i'm a white man and he's as the tape i've heard the tape or he played it on a talk show so go into the racism must end is what he's saying. So go ahead. Keep going. Uh, Tyler, Kyle, rather. Yeah. Um, no, I mean, I had a comedy club basically say like, I know that your material, you're

great, but these people are like basically threatening to like throw bricks through my windows. And like, we've been closed down for like two years i like my business can't afford to sort of have your back um and like so i was sort of cast aside and then that's what i'm saying this is sort of you know sort of at the epicenter of my point there this is victim blaming this is the thing that like these left people say that you shouldn't do. Here I am, and I genuinely believe if I was of a marginalized group, I think I would be more celebrated for coming forward about this. abusing an abuse survivor it's it's not even it's literally abusing you again for for discussing the fact that you are a abuse survivor it's overt and it is that's why i feel like there should be a law against it but what i my point is sometimes like if you look at perception sometimes i show up to

a comedy club you know you look at how my hair is i comb it back i wear a leather jacket sometimes people might think that i'm sort of uh saying this for shock and that that's just how i dress and that's sort of what i mean i mean sometimes the way i present myself i need to be mindful when i'm also doing the same material that i'm doing, how it comes across. And that's something I am working on. All right, fair to you. Look, but here's, we can all learn something from horrible, bad experiences. And I love that, that you would sort of try to, what was my role in this? How can I learn from it? Always important, which it's another,

frankly, layer to this and probably more comedy can be mined in there yeah no totally and you know that's the thing too like when one door closes others open i mean i'm on the dr drew show baby but uh here we are this is the only time like a lot of people were sort of like oh my god i can't believe believe that. You would be great for this. And if anything, it just sort of burned a lot of dead wood in my life. And things have never been better, honestly. And whereas back then, I wasn't getting what I'm getting now. So maybe it was a good thing. But Carl, I'm glad for you.

I'm delighted. I couldn't be happier. However, we should all be completely preoccupied with trying to figure out how to make certain this doesn't happen again. This doesn't happen to anybody else. Even 30 or 50 years from now, it's not something we can witness. This was the inexcusable behavior. And now, as opposed to putting forces in place to prevent this kind of excess, now we have forces coming in like the World Health Organization, which I'm going to

talk to Kat about in a few minutes, who want more of this, who want to have complete control over the world. And this is the part that is just, we have to fight like maniacs against this and hold people accountable for their excesses. It was grotesque. It was mob. It was violent. If they had guillotines, they would have used them. And we need to hold them accountable for that. No, I mean, you hit the nail on the head.

And you're completely right when you say that this is defamation because something that I didn't do cost me work and it harmed my business. Now, it's just on top of that, I seem to be very resourceful. And I got fired from my acting agency and I got another agent in literally 45 minutes. And so things happen because I'm very resourceful. I get it. But don't let that reduce your outrage and anger at this. But how is Canada going generally? You know what I mean? Is it – I mean, is there like a – is there anyone you can turn to to tell this story?

Is there anyone that's receptive to these ideas about the excess, or are they all still in the mass delusion? No, the culture of Canada is, you know, I've been to America a few times and the culture of Canada, especially for comedy, it's, it is different. It's not as bad as you might think. I was extremely outraged by this. And this situation severely affected my self-perception, my mental health. You know, I was outraged. This sort of, my girlfriend even broke up with me. And I remember that. I completely forgot about that. You know, there was a lot of stuff personally that this uh you know put me through um and this actually happened years ago though so that's why it seems a little bit more uh

removed um but yes the the culture of canada it's very nuanced i would say edgier comedy it's like juggling flaming bowling pins you know people like that element of danger um the thing is you're just not given any permission to drop one once you light them on fire because they could go in the crowd and hurt somebody right um that being said it's very you have like that i have a little saying for myself saying the frequency is fine and a lot of people ask me how do you get away with this how do you write stuff like that my goal isn't to write an edgy joke if i find it funny i will say it that being said my lens is different than most people because you know i used to wake up like to my mom like

hammer fisting me in the face and the next day she'd wake up she's like well i can't drink tequila and we all laugh and it was like it was fucked up but it that's literally how my humor was shaped and like i'll i this is like this might sound weird but i i really relate to a guy like Eminem coming up in a trailer park. I grew up in trailer parks, and this is how I create my art. And I think I do feel in Canada, culturally, especially when you're doing stand-up, you might say something really funny, but sure, it might be a little on the edgier side. People laugh for a second, then they look around to see if other people are laughing, and then they'll start laughing,

or they'll hold it in because they're like, oh, I don't know if I'm allowed to find that funny. Whereas what I notice in a lot of American crowds, they find it funny. They'll just blurt it out, and they're much more free. Whereas I feel like in Canada, there's just been so many examples of people, you know, just getting in trouble for thinking what they think and feeling what they feel. It's insane. Yeah.

Think about it. It's insane. Right. By the way, you might check out Daryl Hammond story. He had a similar mom. I would say, I would dare say even worse. Do you know who Daryl Hammond is? He had a similar mom. Uh, I would say, I would dare say even worse.

Uh, do you know who Daryl Hammond is? A former Saturday Night Live. Yeah. He, um, he told me some crazy stories. Yeah.

I mean, and that's the thing. Like it's, I feel like other forms of art are never put under this, uh, scrutiny. Um, you'll watch the Saw movies. It would be crazy if that.

That's a great, it's an interesting statement because I think immediately of the photographer from Greenwich Village, Mapplethorpe. People like that who, when they really hit a a nerve do get a lot of scrutiny i mean it's sort of how you know you're in the right zone even that you're in where you should be it becomes dangerous it becomes evocative doesn't it no yes and that's true. I just more so meant like, um, for, for comedy, you know, we don't have paint to color like red to depict blood, or we don't have,

uh, instruments to strum a minor chord to create this sort of moodiness. We were very naked and I guess similar to photography. We, we merely have, uh, it's very, it's very naked.

So, uh, a lot of times our art could be, uh, confused with like endorsing what we're actually saying. And I think that's where a lot of people get into trouble. But we're not. Every joke I have is very similar to a painting that might, this might be a mood. I'm trying to make people feel something. I'm not endorsing murder or whatever, something it's a crazy thought. And wouldn't it be just, you know,

completely outlandish to laugh at something, um, you know, incredibly like way over the top, almost cartoonishly brutal. Like that's sort of a vibe that I like to, uh, create.

Um, and you know, if it's funny, you could say it, but a lot of the times I think some people even get more mad when it does work. Like something that hits a nerve

when they hear people laugh, then they're like, oh, we got to end this before. Yeah. So hold that thought. I want you to give me some examples of that. And when we come back, I want to spend a few minutes talking about, we've really kind of getting into a whole thing about comedy here, a little deeper into the nature of comedy and mirth and its role in a society. Because it was glaringly absent during COVID. It was missed. It could have been very effective. All I had was Adam

Carolla screaming about how everyone had become a bunch of pussies and sheep. He kept saying, you're all pussies and sheep. You're all pussies and sheep. And it turns out that now that this has been sort of studied, 70% of people were just kind of going along with it because they were kind of afraid, much like your comedy store owner. You're just kind of going along with what it's supposed to do. And in fact, comedy could help people withstand, stand up to the excesses, the insanity of some of this stuff? All right, Kyle Lucey in here, KyleLucey.com. We're going to take a little break.

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That is pdsdebt.com slash D-R-D-R-E-W. One last time, pdsdebt.com slash drdrew. We are talking, of course, with Kyle, who's back. Kyle, Lucy, we're going to have Kat Lindley in here in a few minutes. So, Kyle, I'm getting a message from my producer saying, bring up the Seinfeld comments. But I mean, I mentioned it at the beginning and neither you nor I sort of got traction with it. But what did you think about his statement? I was sort of trying to reframe it exactly what he said, which is comedy is important. No, Seinfeld is like, if I were to think of comedy like hip hop, Seinfeld is one of the goats.

He's one of the Mount Rushmores on comedy. And you sort of need to hear a voice like that say exactly what he is saying um and you know like I said as long as it's funny it's gonna be okay and that's a specific point to live comedy but we're in this weird sort of um era now where you could be doing stand-up and killing in front of uh the crowd you're in front of um and if you record it and put it online people could like clip out parts of it right and take away all the rapport you built take away you know uh the setup that made you get there look if there's no way you could say something, in my opinion,

especially if you look at the crowd and it's like a diverse crowd. There's no way you could say that type of material and get huge laughs unless you got there through setting it up the right way. You can't just go up and say that. So people that are like this headline culture and this clipping culture that are taking things out of of context they're just like how we said before

it's defamation it's ruining like a comedian is a small business and of course a guy like seinfeld a huge business but um for especially like people coming up there you know you're ruining lives this is like it's like putting a brick through a window let's talk about this for a second because i remember you know back when i was an mtv in the early days we were actually assaulted by the right that was where we had our trouble was what was called the religious right at the time who had very distorted views about biology and things that were all over the place. And I was fighting very hard to push back. This was during the AIDS pandemic and they had feelings about that. They were constantly trying to silence us and actually did, if you remember,

it's why Howard Stern left terrestrial radio and went to Sirius, went to satellite because he was canceled by the right. And George Bush was president and he had an FCC chairman that was actually Colin Powell's son that was very aggressive. And it was, it was a difficult time. It's so shocking to see the left adopt the same, I want to call it the playbook that they took it to. They've taken and put it on not just steroids, but like given it a nuclear power plant and are going after people with absolute, like they're wielding a saber all the time. And it's just, it's nothing. It's so much more aggressive and violent and distorted and dishonest as compared to the right who had sort of one note they were constantly after us about.

What do you say about that? No, I mean, and especially you remind me of something especially that is relevant in Canada. You know, I'm not a political guy. You know, I literally just leave my house every night and I do comedy. But you can't not see it sometimes. And, you know, you got our prime minister, Justin Trudeau, regularly calls people on the right racist. This guy is the most racist prime minister in recent history. You know, if anyone on the right were to be caught in blackface once, if anyone on the right were to bring a Nazi into parliament, give them a standing ovation, it would be over. They'd have to resign. The fact that he's able to have so much

play. I mean, I think earlier we were talking about, or I think I was even watching a clip of your show of the Hunter Biden scandal and how it just always gets swept under the rug. And at the end of the day, it doesn't seem like there's a checks and balances. It seems like they have this some sort of omnipotent power. And just to criticize the left doesn't mean you're necessarily endorsing the right, but it's getting alarming how much of this snowball is coming downhill and nothing can stop it. It becomes this... I know this is the point. Yeah, this point people make a lot it's become this ideology has become a new religion and to question it is blasphemy and it's just it's incredibly alarming and i think genuinely if the same behavior was on the right people would

criticize it equally at least everyone should really yeah i hope so i criticize all this that we should all be speaking about everything um but check out my interview with matias desmond if you guys haven't seen that yet anyone who's listening to this where he really lays out the mass formation psychology how it happens and how it's 20 of people narcissists who really get swept and into propaganda and are quite hypnotized and are quite convinced of things and then you know my i've seen forever that what happens is with narcissist is when they conform a mob effectively they will begin scapegoating immediately we saw it in nazi germany we saw it in the french revolution just it's over and over and over again it's it's what happened it's you and over and over again. It's what happened.

It's certain primitive organizations down in South America. It's in Mexico. This is what humans have done in all settings throughout human history. And this is no exception. And this scapegoating phenomenon has to be met with force. It's the only way it stops. It doesn't stop. And I'm not saying you have to be violent with somebody.

I'm not advocating that at all. I'm saying it has to be aggressively countermeasured. It has to be pushed back because it will not stop. There must be consequences for forming a mob and hurting other people. And particularly when it's unfounded, it's's dishonest it's uh has a clear intent to harm you want to raise issues about something somebody said by all means go at it uh be have an argument fine but to go to your employer and your comedy club this is the part that i find reprehensible so humbly i yeah i love the way you approach it, to be honest, because you take a very measured approach.

And, you know, like that's exactly what is going to sort of defeat this. To be firm, you know, exactly how you are, but to not let it slide. And, you know, admittedly, I have let a lot slide. And I think a lot of the reasons why is because I never... I'll tell you this. I think I mentioned this before. When your producer contacted me that you want to interview, I wasn't even going to reply because I thought it was a joke. Because I never... I swear to God.

I'm never... I'm constantly used to just sort of being forgotten that I just sort of figure things out on my own. But there's been no major platform that even would touch me in Canada, I think. Oh, because you're radioactive. See, this is why I think I have a great producer, a book producer, and she knows I like talking to people that have been canceled because as soon as somebody's canceled, I figure they have something to say. They must have said something close to the bone. I'm not kidding. And this is what we've been doing for a couple of years now. And every single person I interview, I learn something.

I think about something. I form some new ideas because of them. I don't agree with everything they say at all times. I'm just interested in talking to people if somebody came after them. And it started with the medical community because I was seeing that the people that they were really going after were exceptionally extraordinary people, extraordinary professionals, extraordinary professionals, extraordinary teachers, extraordinary human beings.

And I figured, why would they go after those guys? Like you. No, no, no, no, no, no. Like you got canceled too. Well, I got canceled too, but I wouldn't put me in that situation. I'm not in a J-bottom chart.

You've been canceled a few times though. You keep bouncing back. I keep just moving forward. But that's the thing. What is canceled? What is canceled? Like you look at a guy like Shane Gillis who was canceled, and now

he was hosting SNL. I don't think... I think canceled is such a permanent term. That's sort of what my point was before. Because if you're actually talented and resourceful, there's no way... Especially if you didn't do anything wrong.

Especially if something... a moment in your life was bastardized for political gain. The truth always comes out. People aren't, you know, there's a lot of transparency, especially if people care about you, they'll do a little bit of digging and say, oh, there's no way he said that and find it out themselves so i think you know canceling in my opinion it only really happens if you genuinely like break the law like harvey weinstein for instance but for the most part or yeah or if you if it really harms your mental health you can't function you collapse you become unable to do your work or something and that's that is what they're risking when they do this stuff. I don't know. I just think there should be people lost, even though we're fine. We got through it. You're right. There are plenty of people that literally defend

cancellation based on what you're saying. And I don't think that should pass. I think it should be no, because here's the short-term consequence you caused. You should be responsible for that. And even I'm really worried about, this is kind of the interesting part, is what if the person is sort of so-called deserving of it, if they've done something that really is egregious, are you at your liberty? You're at liberty to say something, but are you at your liberty to harm that person or to intentionally try to harm them? That's something to struggle with. I mean, let's say you were a horrible person and they wanted to go to the... Somebody wanted to go... But still, I think mobs in general need to be sort of of there needs to be a firm response to mobs it just has to be because

the mobs are not rational they're not good they don't have good judgment they don't change direction they don't um they don't care ultimately so i don't know we gotta what we gotta figure that out no i agree and it's this whole mob culture is like um setting a flame and trying to control it but the wind can take it anyway and there's so many uh moving parts in a mob you don't know how one person's going to um swing it a certain way and then it becomes this uncontrollable thing that is so destructive and um yeah like especially I think that there should be some sort of consequence especially for wrongful um i don't like the term canceling but i guess you could use it but wrongful firings wrongful um uh however you would say because it is defamation because companies

companies should be first of all companies talk about pussies and sheep that Adam keeps saying over and over again throughout the pandemic. No one was worse than the companies. As soon as, like you said, you became radioactive in Canada instantly and everyone dropped you. Those people should have consequences too. They need to, because they have to next time think about it before they do that. And then now you've taken the teeth out of the mob's ability to do this stuff. And I think there should be remedies and there probably are. And I would urge you to look, look into, I don't know how Canada works that way, but listen, Carl, I got to talk to Kat. It's been a pleasure to talk with you. Before we kind of wrap up,

just give me a couple minutes on, you know, comedy's importance in in the world and it is it to me it is the one place where we try to access the truth in ways that are tolerable that's sort of how i think about it yeah i i okay not to i want to be humble when i say this but and i'll talk about comedians who i revere you know um you look at uh ch, you look at Fryer. A comedian is a modern day philosopher. And because we're not politicians, there is that fail switch of that. I was just joking, is that you get to say a lot of stuff that people are thinking and you can even see this um when major cultural events happen if you go on social media there's a lot of truth being spoken through memes and it's a way people could say stuff get their point across and not get um you know something that might be a little bit uh divisive taken down so i feel like um it's interesting that like a spicy pepper is very sweet to open your taste buds to sort of

inject the spice and similarly uh comedy uh is funny so it's very uh accessible and it can spread very quickly. But, and most comedians would agree with this, it's the message behind the jokes that is the most important. And that's also what makes a comedian's career be better is that they have truth. Because a premise is more important than the punchline. The punchlines are just the breadcrumbs that lead them to your point or your message. And when we stop more important than the punchline. The punchlines are just the breadcrumbs that lead them to your point or your message. And, you know, when we stop letting comedians say what they think,

it's sort of, it massively stops communication in a grand scale, which is very alarming. Yes, I agree. You know, I was a huge fan of Pryor back when he was doing his thing in the early days of the 70s. And I will go back and listen to some of that stuff now just to delight in it. And it occurred to me a few years ago that he was really like, he was a poet. He wasn't just a storyteller. He wasn't just a truth teller. That was like Homer. We were listening to a poet. And I'm not kidding. I really reacted to it that way. I thought, oh, he is carrying our culture forward through history with this. We will be able to look back on these things and be in the moment with him, the truth. And listen to his delirious. It was poetry, I'm sorry to God. Anyway, I appreciate you being here and hope you stay in touch and good luck with everything. Thank you so much for this opportunity.

I had a blast and it means a lot. It means a lot because, yeah, it's really making me rethink of all the bad stuff that happened and I'm looking at it. Go get them. I appreciate it. Go get them.

Thank you. We need to push back. All right, my friend. Thank you, Kyle. Coming up next, Caleb, is Kat in the house there? I know she was sort of standing by. Okay. So Kat Lindley is a Croatian born American trained family practitioner, family physician. She's got a board certification in family medicine. She practiced in Texas. She loved the idea of taking care of the whole family. My father was a family practitioner. Late in her career, she became interested in helping find solutions, improving overall healthcare system. She's been involved with many organizations, including Global COVID Summit and AAPS, and is passionate about patients and profession, as we all are, hopefully,

the people we try to bring on this show. President and co-founder of Global Health Project. She'll tell us about that. Kat, welcome to the program. Welcome. Thanks for having me. Thank you. I think a great place to start is the Global Health Project. Tell us about that.

So we got together last summer to start coalition of organizations, leaders to bring awareness about what's happening, trying to empower people to take back their health, their financial power, their children education, really just helping people find their place in this confusing world. Well, I have felt for some time, you know, you're younger than I am, but I've been fighting, you know, insurance resources and regulators and, you know, my whole career fighting that stuff off, trying to get the proper care for patients.

And I feel like we've just lost that battle. It's now even more centralized. Now everyone's an employee of a hospital. Now you can't advocate for patients. It's just set up impossibly. So I've been very interested in trying to get things into the hands of patients to just empower the patients directly. How does your organization do that?

Well, one of the things I strongly feel that the only way we return trust in medicine is private practice of medicine. Even before COVID, you know, I worked with different legislators on federal level and state level trying to fight against Obamacare, universal health care. I'm not really in favor of anything like that because you have government bureaucracy pretty much behind the healthcare system. And that's kind of what we've seen during this COVID crisis, where physicians were not independent enough to truly advocate for patients first. And that's where protocols came into place. And you could not have this conversation with your physician if you were not for taking the vaccine. Everyone had to do like one size fits all.

So the only way we can really get some sanity back is private practice of medicine. And our organization advocates for that and also empowers patients to really take their health back. You know, the health care industry is the only industry where you go to the hospital, you get a product, and you have no idea how much you're going to pay for it. Our patients need to demand better. Yeah, I completely agree with you that it's got to get back to the, well, ideally it would get back to the patient-doctor unit. My God, if we were adulterating the lawyer-client relationship,

the way we have destroyed the doctor-patient relationship, can you imagine the screaming from the lawyer groups? It's just, you know, and yet they're the ones that have perpetrated a lot of this stuff. So tell me a little bit. You mentioned getting financially back. I understand you've got some concerns about banks' role in some of these things. So, you know, when it comes to the World Health Organization, the treaty, and the amendments to international health regulation, everyone says, well, what happens if we don't comply? You know, how are they going to make sure that the member states comply with these different resolutions and articles.

And that's kind of where this IMF and central bank comes into play, because they can just call the loans to the countries, to the member state countries, and they can put pressure that way. Everyone talks about, oh, United Nations has an army, they're going to bring the army. No, that's nonsense. They can do it on a financial basis and put pressure on the member states that they're going to default on the loans they have. And it's really important to start looking at that financial aspect. I feel like we're getting some slow traction against this global health treaty, so-called, slowly in various countries and in this country and

certainly almost state by state where people are looking at centralizing authority, giving these nudnicks, centralized authority above sovereign officials, duly elected officials is just a level of insanity that when you say it out loud, you can't believe they're pushing for that. It is crazy. And there is definitely push from several European countries. And I know you had Dr. Meryl Nass a few weeks back, and she talked about her efforts in different countries. Her and I actually were just in Italy and met with Italian senators and physicians there

discussing this. There are people who are concerned about what's happening, but overall our governments are pretty much saying, hey, if we like it, we're going to sign on. The good news is, I know, right? The good news is that we have actually done a decent job. And I really want to applaud everyone for calling their legislators, for posting on X, for doing, you know, different pieces online, sub-stacks. Because they have had to come back to the drawing table and change the draft.

And recently, last week, they released the pandemic treaty draft and then the draft of the amendments of international health regulation. They've changed the language. They've hidden behind legalese. But essentially, the essence of the documents is still there. They still want the power to lock down the area, to tell us what type of vaccines we can give treatments. They can order quarantine isolation. Censorship was taken out of article 44 and put in annex but they still talk about disinformation misinformation so essentially they've kept everything there but the fact that they have to play defense is actually really good

and i know you and i are going to talk about 10th amendment and it's really exciting to see the states fighting back. States have had enough. You know, the federal government has pretty much abandoned their job. But states have said, no, no, you know, we're going to kind of try to play this card. Well, describe the 10th Amendment, what you're talking about, then I'll react to it. So the 10th Amendment essentially says that any power that i'll react to it so the 10th amendment essentially says that any power that the federal government doesn't have goes back to the state and that's

considered police power so health care is actually considered police power that state has uh right over the federal government over so some of the states have decided to write bills specifically that have to do with that. So you have, for example, in March, I think it was March 26, Louisiana passed the Senate Bill 133. And the best thing about that bill, I actually wrote it down so I don't forget. I think 37, it was 37 to zero votes. So Democrats voted with Republicans on this 37 to zero. It passed the Senate and this week it went to the House committee, passed eight to two, and now it's going to go to the full floor for a vote. Louisiana has been a huge leader in this and there is every indication that the

governor would sign this bill if it passes the House. And then you have Oklahoma, who is pretty much saying the same thing, that the World Health Organization, WEF, United Nations would not have jurisdiction in their states. And that bill was passed in Oklahoma. So House, it's a Senate Bill 426. It's a House version of that bill. And now the Senate is going to pass it as well. And then it's going to go to their governor. And you have Alabama who has a House bill that passed and a resolution. So states are waking up and defending their own citizens. Well, you said they've had enough. And I think that's an exactly accurate way to describe what has happened here because the federalist system, the federalism that was put in place in order to form a more perfect union of the states has become a tyranny over the states rather than something to facilitate the union amongst the states. They've so outstripped and overreached that states almost have to push back.

And some states can go along with it if they wish, that's fine. But the people just don't have lost track of what that federal system was designed to do. It was for the post office, for the roads and the interstate commerce. I mean, that's about it. That's what the general protection of the homeland,

even that gets kind of wonky now. But this whole wild, it's so far beyond what the Constitution prescribed. It's good that the states are pushing back, don't you think? I think it's excellent it also gives uh indication to the biden administration that uh the citizen don't want this i think the best we can do is make this an election issue and if we do have debates between our uh you know presidential candidates we need to ask each one of them how they stand on this. You know, I'm not a lawyer, but if you look at the Article 18 of this

Amendments to International Health Regulation, this is essentially what the Article 18 says. It says that if there is some kind of emergency somewhere, an outbreak, the Director General can call for public health emergency of international concern. If he does that, he can actually decide that you need to close the borders. He can, like I said, order treatments, diagnostics, institute a vaccine program, lock down the area, limit the trade to that area, call for quarantine isolation. So if you're closing down a border of a country, if you're limiting trade to that country,

isn't that an attack on national sovereignty? And then as far as you and I are concerned, if they're telling us how we treat our patients and what patients can have, isn't that an attack on personal sovereignty, on patient-physician relationship? You know, you're going to have this supranational agency pretty much become a global authority on health.

And that's something that it was never intended to be. It's not how health practice works, as you know as well as I, that your most efficient unit is a well-trained, caring physician and a motivated, informed patient. That's it. Nothing is more efficient than that. And the reason that we go out, you and I, and get our residency and see thousands of cases is because in the setting of the human being, the variabilities are infinite and you have to develop judgment to make the right call for that particular context and that individual.

Individual, forget just the biological complexities, which are infinite, but then you put in the interpersonal, the psychiatric, the historical cultural elements, the family. We have to take that all into account. And giving that to some centralized authority, God knows where, is a level of bizarreness. I can't believe we're having this conversation. Didn't we learn from COVID?

It's a bad idea. See, people seem to have, did you like that? Or was that, do you, maybe you live in a state where you didn't see the excesses. You know, in California, I don't think anybody liked it. People signed up for it, but I don't know that they can't see the excesses. Do you agree with me?

A hundred percent. And if it's up to a war health organization, they want to keep us in this perpetual state of pandemics where they would weaponize public health to put us in an authoritarian state where governments and war health organizations would have powers and dictate the way of life that we all have.

That's ridiculous. Listen, I can now say without being canceled something I said that got me canceled, which was about 10 years before COVID, we had a pandemic and it was rather serious. It was called H5N1. I'm sorry, H1N1 at that point. H5N1 is the one they're trying to whip up frenzy about now. But this was a, I had H1N1. I got, I contracted it. It was brutal. And thank God I was 10 years younger so I could withstand it. It was a brutal illness and it was a pandemic. And tell me,

any of you, any of you who are listening right now, did any of you know at the time you were in the middle of a pandemic? No, because the Obama administration appropriately decided to kind of, let's kind of let the system work. They played it exactly right. There was nothing they should have done differently or could have really done differently. They did it right. And to even think about that, examine that, bring it up,

was grounds for cancellation in and around COVID. So everybody, take a look at how pandemics can be managed. You don't have to bring the world to an end. You don't have to create a totalitarian system to manage a pandemic. You can leave it to Dr. Lindley and myself and the communities to figure out what to do as things develop. It's what we do all the time. We have a murine typhus outbreak right now.

Do you even know it? We have, you know, we have a, what did we have recently? Oh, we had a tuberculosis outbreak. Way more serious. Do you even know it? Yeah, you shouldn't know it. You should not know it. That's our concern. We should be dealing with that. Your thoughts? No, that's exactly right. I think if they allowed the physicians to do their jobs from the beginning. You know, I remember the early days. I was on phone calls with colleagues in France and UK, and everyone was discussing, try this, try that. Let's figure out how to deal with this. Right, as we always do. Exactly.

As we always do. It doesn't matter what comes along. We will figure it out. I we always do. It doesn't matter what comes along. We will figure it out. I agree with you. I'm glad you said that because I have so much faith in our peers. I've been through so many things with American medicine. At the beginning of COVID, that was my first thought. I was in training during the HIV, or what we called at the time, HTLV-3, if you remember, epidemic.

And man, in a very short period of time, there were effective treatments. And when it started, every man I treated, I had to tell them he was going to die in six months, and I was never wrong. And all of a sudden, we could go to nine months, and then it was 12 months. And then we had much better treatments because we kept them alive long enough to come up with the better treatments and that experience informed me that I I believed that we would come up with solutions with this one too but one one a question I have for you is um your accent I don't know where it's I can't quite place it and wherever you were raised does that inform some of your opinions now and how so I was born in Yugoslavia at the time. Now it's Croatia.

And I grew up in communism. I left at 18 one day before the war started. And I went to live in Italy as a nanny and eventually came to the States. And I truly am an example of American dream. So this is why I've always felt compelled to talk about what's happening, especially when it comes to the War Health Organization or United Nations, because what they have in store for us is this idea that we need to be under global governance. I always tell people they need to look at the European Union. I think Americans are not

informed enough about European Union. It started as are not informed enough about the European Union. It started as an idea, right, to put these countries together so they have more power, more, you know, economical ties, trade and all that. But what has become is this microcosm where these countries have lost their own identities and there is only European Union. Their motive right now is one Europe. And that's what the United Nations has in store for the rest of us. They want global governance. They want one world. And what is World Health Organization introducing the one health?

The idea that the lives of humans are not more important than plants or animals, and it's all interconnected with climate change. And with the articles in IHR, with the pandemic treaty, essentially the World Health Organization will become global authority on health. They can lock us down. They can open us up as they deem necessary. So, you know, if there is something that's coming along and they need a little bit more control in that area, hey, there is a pandemic around the corner.

Let's decide what we're going to do. We need to realize that we don't need war health organization. We don't need organization like United Nations. If there is an outbreak, if there is some kind of public health concern, you and I can get on the phone with our colleagues all over the world. Our administrations can do the same. People who are negotiating these things are not physicians. Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, he's not a physician. These are bureaucrats deciding how health is going to be managed.

And as you eloquently said, the only people in the room should be a patient and a physician. No one else. Dr. Lindley can be followed on X at klveritas, also globalhealthproject.org. You can follow the Global Health Project on X as well, Global H Project. And Dr. Lindley, any last words? So there is something encouraging coming from the federal government. Senator Johnson wrote the letter that 49 Republican senators signed. I actually posted it on my Twitter.

And essentially is asking our administration to withdraw from the negotiations of the treaty and the amendments to international health regulation. Now, at least senators are fighting back. And hopefully we can get Democrats to come along, yes. That would be amazing. So here we go. Appreciate you being here. Keep fighting the good fight.

We appreciate you spending a little time with us. And if we can help you out, you let us know. Thank you so much. You bet it, Dr. Kat Lindley. And coming up next week, Tuesday, Peter McCullough comes back for a command performance. I'm going to try to get Dr. Victory in here later in the week, maybe, something like

that. Paul Alexander on the 14th, he's been, his engine's been running hot, so he's got a lot to say. Dr. Joe Latipo, Florida Surgeon General, Dr. Eric Cariotti, psychiatrist, bioethicist. We got action-packed guests coming up. So be a part of that. And you can always, and by the way, I sent a note out to Van Jones just today. I was like, I need to get,

we can get diverse opinions in here. Let's get some more people. And if you have any suggestions, it is contact at drdrew.com. And we appreciate you all being here and we will see you on Tuesday at three o'clock. Oh, I'm sorry. Two o'clock. Caleb helped me with that. Two o'clock Pacific time. Is that correct? We have that set yet. It's still kind of up in the air because it's a, it's an away from home show. Yeah, but it's most likely. It's an away from home show. And we're trying to accommodate Dr. McCullough, too, who may have some stuff right afterwards. So I want to get him in and out before he has to go somewhere. All right.

We'll see you anyway, 2 or 3 o'clock Tuesday next week. Be here. We'll see you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the

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