Ask Dr. Drew - Julian Assange’s Brother Defends Wikileaks Founder From US Espionage Charges w/ Gabriel Shipton & Dr. Aimee – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 373

Episode Date: June 24, 2024

Julian Assange: freedom fighter or anti-American spy? The Wikileaks founder faces 17 charges for espionage and 1 charge for computer misuse after publishing classified US documents & videos nearly 15 years ago – disclosures that many believe should never have been kept secret from American citizens in the first place. His brother Gabriel Shipton and Assange’s legal team say the leaks were legitimate First Amendment disclosures of unlawful activity by the United States. Is the US government fighting for Assange’s extradition as revenge for the embarrassing revelations that he published? • SPONSORED BY TAX NETWORK USA – Owe back taxes? Tax Network USA has saved over $1 billion for their clients and can help you secure the best deal possible. Call 1-800-245-6000 for a private, free consultation, or visit https://drdrew.com/tnusa • SPONSORED BY SAFESLEEVE – Studies have shown that EMF radiation from your phone can be harmful. Try SafeSleeve’s cases made with lab-tested shielding technology that can block over 99% of RF and 92% of ELF radiation. Get 10% off with code DRDREW at https://drdrew.com/safesleeve Gabriel Shipton is a film producer and an advocate for his brother, imprisoned Wikileaks founder Julian Assange. Follow him at https://x.com/GabrielShipton Dr. Aimee is a fertility doctor known as “The Egg Whisperer” and a Tru Niagen partner. She graduated from UCLA School of Medicine and completed her residency in OB-GYN at Harvard Medical School. She also completed a fellowship in reproductive endocrinology and infertility and holds a Master’s in Public Health Management and Policy from the University of Michigan. Find more about Tru Niagen at https://drdrew.com/truniagen and follow Dr. Aimee at https://x.com/_eggwhisperer 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • CAPSADYN - Get pain relief with the power of capsaicin from chili peppers – without the burning! Capsadyn's proprietary formulation for joint & muscle pain contains no NSAIDs, opioids, anesthetics, or steroids. Try it for 15% off at https://capsadyn.com/drew • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • TRU NIAGEN - For almost a decade, Dr. Drew has been taking a healthy-aging supplement called Tru Niagen, which uses a patented form of Nicotinamide Riboside to boost NAD levels. Use code DREW for 20% off at https://drdrew.com/truniagen • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew • COZY EARTH - Susan and Drew love Cozy Earth's sheets & clothing made with super-soft viscose from bamboo! Use code DREW to save up to 30% at https://drdrew.com/cozy • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It should be a very interesting show today. We have two guests coming up. In the second half of the show, we will have Dr. Amy in here. You can follow her. Let me get her info up here. Oh, shoot. It's on another email that I haven't received yet. So I will give you Dr. Amy's stuff when we come back from the little break.

But our first guest is Gabriel, Julian Assange's brother. Let's see, Gabriel Shipton. I've met his father as well. He was a lovely gentleman. And we're going to talk about whether Julian Assange is a hero or a treasonous criminal, one or the other. Seems like everyone has strong opinions also i've stumbled on dr amy here now i finally found it the egg whisperers we're going to talk about

how she uses niagen to enhance fertility uh you can follow her at egg whisperer on x underscore egg whisperer okay be right back after this our laws as it pertains to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin.

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the egg whisperer, and we're going to be talking about Niagen and its effect on fertility. You can follow her at underscore egg whisperer. In addition to being a board-certified, I believe, residency in gynecology, at least I know she's done the residency at Harvard, she has also done a fellowship in reproductive endocrinology and infertility, and has a master's in public health management from the University of Michigan. But first, we're going to be talking to Gabriel Shipton. You can follow Gabriel on X, Gabriel Shipton. He, in addition to being Julian Assange's brother, is a film producer and an advocate for

his brother, the WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange. You can follow Gabriel, and as I said, Gabriel on X at Gabriel Shipton. And we're going to watch a little bit of, I think, a trailer. Let me bring Gabriel in, Gabe in, so he can sort of set this up for us. Welcome, Gabe. Thank you for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me on. And he is actually in Australia as we speak. It's eight o'clock in the morning there. We appreciate his showing up for us. I wonder if you want to set up this little clip we have that we were going to play. Yeah, so this is a trailer for a documentary that I produced about, really about my family

and their fight to free Julian. We followed Julian's wife, Stella, and my father as they battled for two or three years to free Julian when he was put inside a maximum security prison back in 2019, where he remains to this day, Belmarsh Prison, just outside of London. And so really, it's an emotional look, you know, at a family fighting to save the life of their loved one. And we couldn't actually film with Julian because he's inside a maximum security prison. So the audience really learns about Julian through the people who are closest to him and that's my dad, Julian's dad, and Stella, his wife, who are incredible advocates for freedom of speech

and also for Julian's human rights. I have met your dad. He's a lovely, soft-spoken gentleman, but he's a good advocate for your brother. Let's watch this trailer. Julian Assange is the hero of our time. He was the darling of the left. All of a sudden, he's a puppet of Russia. My name is John Shipton, I'm Julian Assange's father. Wikileaks found that Julian Assange has been arrested. One of the most notorious and controversial figures in custody. Assange will remain behind bars until that extradition hearing which has been set down for the end of February. I urge the Department of Justice to drop the charges.

The maximum jail sentence of 175 years because he published the truth. So Gabe, help us understand, people that maybe are not deep in his story, it gets a little, I got to admit, I've read a bit about it and it gets very confusing even to me how we understand what happened to him. And I'm assuming as you represent his cause, you're representing his thinking on the matter why he released these things that he's being accused of having done. Tell me how we understand this. Well, Julian, you have to really go back to the creation of Wikileaks and what Wikileaks actually was, a website that really protected journalists and protected leakers. And it was founded in 2006. So we're talking, you know, way back in not the early days of the internet, but this sort of another flourishing of the internet around the time of, you know, Facebook was starting up, Google was starting up these sorts of, you know, huge multinational companies.

But also a little WikiLeaks whistleblower protection website, journalist protection website started up around then as well. And what problem that Julian identified was that in this digital age, leakers are very hard to be protected. Their digital footprint exists. They're easily traceable through that. And so that was a real challenge into getting these big leaks out to the press and out to the public. And so Julian, who had a unique understanding, Julian's a technologist and a programmer. understanding of cryptography technology, as well as the architecture of the internet, and brought these things together to create a website and anonymous Dropbox for leakers that would protect their anonymity and therefore increase this sort of information coming out from these institutions. And really, I think one of the key motivators

to really creating this website was the Iraq War and the big lie around the Iraq War, the weapons of mass destruction that never really existed. And so back then, this big lie that was propagated by everyone, Colin Powell famously sat at the UN and held up these papers, you know, that turned out to be completely false. That was propagated throughout corporate media, through every, you know, basically every masthead, every newspaper propagated these lies and we ended up australia included as they were an ally of the united states in this war can i stop you can i stop you before you go on with julian's story we've gotten used to this now i think we've come to understand that this is how media works and

how government pulls its strings uh you know here we are 20 years later and COVID sort of laid bare this phenomenon and it's still happening in ways that are difficult to understand. I wonder if you just for a second, before we go back to his narrative, pull me into the present. How do you understand this present moment and why aren't things changing? Well, this is exactly right, Drew, because if you look at WikiLeaks, you know, WikiLeaks was this place that took this power out of the media's hands, out of the corporate media's hands and put it in the public's hands. We were able to look at the source material, look at the leaks ourselves instead of them

being hidden behind this corporate shield in the corporate media. And that really scared the people, what Julian described as conspiracies, these people in corrupt government, corporate media uh and the sort of military industrial complex if you will and how they and so so i'm i'm getting i'm getting used to thinking about these things is what mike ben's calls the ben's calls the blob you know the and you've got to throw in the intelligence community there that's mostly what he calls the blob but i'm wondering i've never heard anybody speak about how that was functioning then. Sort of the Twitter files has laid bare how it's functioning in the days of social media.

Would the White House call up some executive at CNN? How was the information controlled from at least our government? Or if you found maybe how Australia does it, I'm just curious. Yeah. Well, I mean, essentially, yes. You would have those relationships that sort of what they call access journalism. And so, you know, somebody, a journalist say at the New York times would have their sources within government and, and they, that's what would happen.

They would call them up and they would say, oh, here's a story, you know, we want you to push this story or here's a tidbit of information, go and investigate it. And if the reporter didn't do that, didn't go do that bidding, then the source or the person inside the government would cut them off. You also have within these legacy media institutions, there's sort of a culture that exists and it reinforces itself.

It reinforces that reporting and that sort of culture that all these reporters follow. You know, they all went to the same schools. They all have the same friends. They all go to the same parties. They all rub shoulders with the people in Washington. So they don't want to piss off their friends either. They still want to go to the cocktails, cocktail drinks. They still want to be invited to dinner. Yeah, it's still going on.

When Chris Cuomo was debating with Dave Smith, he said, you know, you get a call from the boss. Somebody calls you and you don't want that call. And I thought, oh, man, they're still doing this. Somebody somewhere, I don't know if the bosses get the calls from the government and then they come down on the air staff. It's just astonishing that this is. You would think that the journalists and the executives at these so-called journalistic institutions would bristle against that and figure out a way to get out from under it. But here we are again. And so he's in Australia.

He's upset about the so-called weapons of mass destruction nonsense that got us all into a war. How did he get into the u.s did he come over here how did the whole u.s part of this happen to him well what what happened is he uh had a one of the biggest league of all time was still one of the biggest leagues of all time which was the chelsea i understand, but was he still in Australia at that point? He was. So he started to move around with WikiLeaks, and so he was just roaming around the world, essentially.

And so he wasn't in Australia. Stay out of people's crosshairs? To stay away from people identifying him? A little bit of that, yeah. Yeah, going from place to place, staying out of people's crosshairs, speaking at different events around the world, garnering support for WikiLeaks and the things that he was doing because it wasn't a commercial venture.

WikiLeaks was funded totally by donations. They didn't have advertisers or anything like that. So he was constantly travelling, speaking events, and doing this, he was using jurisdictional arbitrage in a free speech sense to find the best places to actually publish from that couldn't be censored. And so Wikileaks was totally uncensorable in that sense because of this unique use of these jurisdictions and their different free speech protections around the world. At this point, were you and your family worried about him?

Yes, of course. Yes, yes, very much so. To me, it's not obvious at that point. By the time Chelsea stuff gets involved obviously i understand that that's when he gets upset worried but before that just looks like what journalism should be doing they should be doing something like that now but they're not yeah and i think you know when we really started to get worried about him was in 2008 when uh published a document from Kenya and it was a big report on corruption on the Kenyan government and it actually led to the change a change of government in Kenya and some of the people involved in that

leak got murdered and that's when we really understood the power of really understood the power of Wikileaks, that those in power were really scared of this sort of information coming out and not being able to be stopped. You know, once it was on the Wikileaks website, everyone around the world could report on it. Every outlet could report on it and it couldn't be stopped. And that's when we really saw the danger around WikLeaks and how the powerful might come after Julian to really try and shut it down if their crimes were exposed on the website.

And this really is where the question begins to arise. Is he somebody that should be condemned for recklessly sharing information that ends up to harm to other people? No judgment on whether the people deserve anything they get, but it harms them. Versus is he a crusader for the truth that we should be just backing as thoroughly as possible? How do we reconcile these two points of view? Well, I think this harm, this sort of harm allegation is what... You just told me that people died in Nigeria. You just told me. That was from you. Those were actually, those were people who were involved in the leaking of the information.

They weren't actual government employees or government sources. So I guess what the allegation is from the USDOJ or those people, it's actually, you know, it's all BS actually because in Chelsea Manning's trial, the Obama administration actually spent $10 million trying to find somebody who'd come to actual physical harm from Chelsea Manning's leaks. And they had to admit under oath that they could not find anybody who came to any source, any government source or anybody in the military or working for the government who came to any harm from these leaks. But what these leaks did expose was state criminality, was the actual victims in the leaks were civilians. There were civilians who were killed by a helicopter gunship in Iraq, which is the most famous probably release of Julian's,

was a helicopter gunship video from a helicopter gunship in Baghdad that portrayed or showed the killing of two Reuters journalists on the streets of Baghdad, unarmed Reuters journalists, and then the shooting up of a van that came to rescue them, a van that had children who were on their way to school. Their father stopped to rescue these injured civilians and the helicopter gunship shot up that vehicle as well. So that's where the actual harm is in these leaks. It's what was exposed. That's where the criminality actually lays, not with Julian and the people who reported on it, the journalists who brought this information to us that we never would have known about.

And so the Chelsea Manning trial, it doesn't find any harm to anybody in particular why is that the continued drumbeat the continued accusation is harming people it's you know it has downstream effects is it hyperbole is it um just again misinformation that they get to drop you know drum up or is there some argument that has teeth? No, it's a false narrative. And once you dig into it, once you scratch the surface, you find out that the prosecutors who went after Chelsea Manning and the prosecutors who went after Julian or were going after Julian have actually admitted under oath that there is no, there was no harm committed. But you know, within these communities, within the, you know, the State Department and the

intelligence communities, they have to tell themselves this. They have to say to themselves, well, you know, he committed great harm, so we have to chase him, chase him down and chase him to the end of the earth, keep him in a maximum security prison without even being convicted. Just to set this example that if you expose our crimes, if you do this sort of thing, then we're going to come after you and you actually have no rights. And that is the punishment and it's an example set for everyone else. So to me,

this harm narrative is totally false and has been proven so and admitted to by the prosecutors. What is your hypothesis as to why they're being so aggressive with him? Are they fearful that he has something more under the hood that he's going to release or or what or is it really just to make an example of him well it's just so i'm in wiki leaks you have to look back of when actually julian was taken off the scene because i think that is uh indicative of uh the sort of quietening or silencing of this whole information landscape. And that was after the 2016 election,

WikiLeaks put out Vault 7 leaks, which showed these CIA hacking tools that the CIA was using. They could hack into any computer, any Apple iPhone. They could hack into your TV to turn into a listening device. And these tools that actually lost control of, they were out in the wild, the expression is. These hacking tools were able to be accessed by anybody. And so WikiLeaks exposed this in 2017. And that's when this campaign to go after Julian was really ramped up. And then the timeline from there to when he was arrested in 2019. And then we saw what happened in 2020. And then following that, the pandemic,

etc. Those years, the information landscape totally changed. And you can match that up with the Twitter files as well. When was Twitter really gone after and co-opted? It was after the 2016 elections. And so there was this real push to control the information landscape after the 2016 election and going into the 2020 United States election. And I think Julian is part of that. And having WikiLeaks off the scene meant that the information that we get could be controlled more thoroughly because WikiLeaks was totally uncontrollable, uncensorable. Everything that the governments had tried to do since it was founded

to shut it down hadn't worked. And what they needed to do was get Julian and put him in prison so that this website could stop publishing information. And it's not just an example to publishers around the world. It's also an example to people who use technology to bring us information because that's essentially what Julian is. He's a technologist who used the internet, used cryptography to make this leaking magnet, leaking machine that exposed all these crimes.

So really it's an attack on, and a message to those technologists as well. If you use your intelligence to create something that will expose us or that will bring truthful information to the public, we have ways of going after you. We can use our Espionage Act, which is a 1917 federal law, a very arcane law that hasn't changed in all those years that's usually used for whistleblowers. We can use that to go after publishers, to go after people who make websites or anybody that exposes information that we don't want out there. So I think having that timeline of when they

needed WikiLeaks off the scene, I think is very relevant to understanding why Julian is still in prison and why he is being pursued so harshly. Well, the other thing is, by the way, I'm imagining it's the whole, all governments all over the world are afraid of him, right? I mean, I think that may be why he can't find a safe haven. Yeah, I would say so. But there is a bit of a change and sort of rising tide of support for Julian. So you have people like Lula da Silva, the president of Brazil, who have come out and called for his release. The Australian government, the Australian prime minister has even been advocating for Julian and been calling for his release, as well as the Australian parliament.

So there is popular support around the world for Julian. Even the German chancellor has come out and said that he shouldn't be extradited to the United States. So there is, although these governments, they do want to keep hiding, you know, their misdeeds or their state criminality, we're getting to a point now where Julian's popularity and the punishment that he's gone through is seen as so severe

that there is this upwelling of support from around the world. But yeah, you're right. The governments, they don't want to have their crimes or misdeeds out in the public. They want to keep them hidden. You know, they over-classify is another technique they use. You know, Daniel Ellsberg, the famous Pentagon Papers whistleblower, was also talking about over-classification all the time. Every little piece of document gets classified so that if you release it, you're violating law when the documents are, you know, some of them are just totally inane and don't warrant that sort of classification. But it becomes routine within these institutions so that everything becomes hidden and they can operate in the darkness. It's very interesting.

I mean, even without accusing anyone of crimes, just it seems like they're obsessed with controlling information and the information flow. And it just, again, in today's world, occurs to me that for journalists to be journalists, which almost never happens now, it seems to me that they need tools like this to fight the restrictions on flow of information.

Yes, that's totally right. And Wikileaks actually became, you know, that's where leaks went. That's where all these big data leaks went. And, you know, journalists around the world could access them. And Wikileaks was one of the most cited websites for many, many years on the internet, because it was this trove, this trove of documents that anyone around the world could access. They weren't hidden in the New York Times. They weren't hidden in the Washington Post. They were out there for all of us to see and use. And Julian really coined this term, he called it scientific journalism,

where you could hold up the leaked document and next to the article and you could see, you know, well, this is where the bias was or what wasn't reported on, what was reported on, you know, similar to, you know, scientific information where you have the data next to the paper. He coined this term scientific journalism, where you had the leak as well as the report on it, which we don't get from, say, the New York Times or these establishment media organizations. Well, it seems like they've lost the desire to hold government accountable, to speak truth to power.

They seem to want to speak about the power on their behalf. That seems to be their primary pastime, with an occasional little softball here or there, but whatever. Well, listen, I'll take a little break here. It's Gabriel Shipton. You can follow him at Gabriel Shipton on Twitter. Is there a movie website? Yes, there is.

Ithacamovie.com is the website for Ithaca. We're working on a release. Ithaca Movie. Yes, and we're working on a digital release. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And we're going to – yeah yeah i like the city ithaca i-t-h-a-c-a when we're gonna take a little break here and we come back i want to talk some more about the movie thank you gary we'll be right back joint muscle pains are

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Gabe, we tried the website. It doesn't go through. Do we get that address correct? It's I-T-H-A-K-A-a-m-o-v-a okay i beg your pardon i thought it was like the city here in new york where cornell it lives cornell university and why ithaca what's the significance Well, there's a poem by Cavafy called Ithaca that my dad listens to a lot when we're out on the road. And it's a poem that really talks about focusing on the journey

and not the destination. And so us as Julian's family, when we're fighting against, you know, the US Department of Justice and all these institutions that are pursuing Julian, there are many, many moments where we feel helpless and we feel like that we can't do any more. But, you know, listening to this poem really reminded us that it's not to focus on the destination but focus on who we've met along the way, the new friendships that we've made and what we've learnt in this fight

to free Julian. So that's why we called it Ithaca. And I recommend anybody check out that poem. There's a great reading by Sean Connery on YouTube that is worth a listen. And it's very moving to me and really gives us motivation to keep going in this fight. And are there specific things,

with a C comes up all the time if you're in this country, if you're watching the film, what do you imagine is going to surprise people the most? Well, there's specific things about during the last days of the Donald Trump presidency around efforts to get secure Julian a pardon. I think they're very revealing about the forces

that are actually pursuing Julian. They sort of uncloak themselves for a brief moment during that time. So, you know, I think that's quite revealing in the film. Also, there are some images of Julian hasn't been seen for the last five years. He's been in this maximum security prison. His voice has been taken away from him, but he does get phone calls to the outside world.

And so he's communicating with my father john and stella and and we capture a lot of those intimate uh conversations uh between them uh so so that is quite revealing of uh how they're supporting him and how he's getting through this whole uh this whole process but really i think think people will find it actually inspiring you know watching this you know my dad's just he's not just but he's an architect a builder a designer who's been thrust on this journey and the way he handles things the way he you know attacks every day I think people will find it incredibly inspiring. Those who are fighting for a cause bigger than themselves,

I often understand that and understand, you know, how they stay motivated, how they keep going. And I think, you know, that is really the message of the film is these normal people who have been thrust on this path and how they stay motivated and keep fighting i didn't trust my knowledge of ancient history and poetry but i thought it was a homeric poet that referenced ithaca and lo and behold it is the odyssey and it is the i think he goes back to ithaca is where he's trying this sort of idealized land that he's trying to get to.

But the poem, the Homeric poem, is in fact about the journey. And this poem that your dad likes was originally the early 20th century homage to that journey. So we will watch the film. Congratulations. It's distributed throughout the world now. Yes, well, we're going to release it, actually. There'll be an online release on July 8th in the United States and North America. So, yeah, if you followaca movie on Twitter and Instagram,

or TwitterX, that's Ithaca with a K, or follow my TwitterX, Gabriel Shipton, and we'll be posting up the release information very soon. So, yeah, it'll be out there and available to watch for everyone July 8th. And your dad, that's your dad there. I can't see it close up, but it looks like your dad on the movie poster with a lot of acclaim from various festivals. That's a big deal.

Yes, yeah, it did very well around the festival circuit, critical acclaim as well, many, many reviews, positive reviews, even in the New York Times and the Guardian, Financial Times in England, four-star reviews there. So it is critically acclaimed and has been very, you know, shown all over the world. And yeah, we're really excited about releasing it online on July 8th in North America. Is there any realistic chance that there'll be a pardon coming his way? Well, we'll definitely be fighting for a pardon and asking President Biden to pardon Julian. I think what's happening at the moment now is he has won the right to appeal in the UK courts and so he has another appeal hearing on the 9th and 10th of July

and the focus now is on freedom of expression in this appeal and that will Julian have the same freedom of expression rights that he has in the United Kingdom if he's extradited to the United States? And so the hearing is now boiled down to these freedom of expression arguments. And so I think it's going to be particularly embarrassing. Yeah, it's complicated. It's legally complicated. Yeah, it's the First Amendment here, freedom of expression there. It's going to be, well, and when is that likely to happen? Is that all going to be done in writing? 9th and 10th of July is that hearing date in the United Kingdom.

Yeah, yeah. But there's lots of action going on in the Congress as well. There's a House Resolution 934, which is a free Julian Assange resolution that has 12 co-sponsors on it. We're adding one co-sponsor a month. They're lobbying very hard for that resolution. So there is building momentum in the Congress as well as around the world for these calls for Julian to be free. And are there things you want people to do to support him? Well, we're always asking people to contact their representative, contact their

congressperson, ask them to sign on to House Resolution 934. And yeah, always encouraging people to get involved in their own democracy. You know, it's not enough just to vote once a month, once every four years rather. You have to continually stay involved, continually pester your congresspeople and your representatives to get them to do what you want. You know, at the end of the day, they represent you,

and you still have a voice in that system. And he has not been pardoned. Do you have a theory as to why that has been the case? And is it different for different administrations? What are your theories? And then also I'd like to get your thoughts as we sort of wrap things up here. What your thoughts are about, I mean, you've sort of tilted your hand a little bit about how you're calling them criminals and they operate in secrecy. But your sort of thoughts on government generally in our modern era.

So first, who's not parting and why? And your overall thoughts on what's happening in representative so-called governments? Well, we were very close with the end of the Trump administration. We had the pardon drawn up on Donald Trump's desk. He was considering it. He's actually said that he would seriously consider a pardon if he was made president again. But what was reported at the time was Tucker Carlson reported that Mitch McConnell had called Trump and said, your impeachment is not going to go well for you if you pardon Julian Assange and Edward Snowden. So that was one of the reasons that was reported on that Trump did not Trump did not give Julian a pardon.

We expected something to happen in the Biden administration, but Biden came into power and then just a couple of months later the Department of Justice said they would continue pursuing Julian Assange. So I think Biden has now said he's considering the Australian request to drop the charges because Australia is a close ally to the United States and they've been advocating strongly with the administration. So there is some shifting ground and I think we're closer

than we ever have been to getting Julian out of prison. But I think there's always, with your second part of your question, I think there's always a tension or an interplay between, or there should be at least, between journalism, between revealing the truth and these government institutions. The government institutions, there's a lot of good people in them still. I've met many of them who respect the Constitution, who are trying to do good work.

But there is this propensity for institutions to protect themselves. And I think there really needs to be that tension between that information being revealed and being public so that we as a society can make better decisions about our institutions uh and uh the institutions uh keeping that information secret if if they actually need to uh so and that that is the that's the fourth pillar of democracy right that's the that's the journalistic function supposedly supposedly it seems like it's uh been sort of uh fallen down on the job so to speak lately but okay well listen uh thank you for joining us here as well yeah yeah yeah i get it

i totally see it i i think it has more um traction now because of the way things are going i suspect that people kind of appreciate that somebody has an instrument that can, you know, work against things like Twitter files and Facebook and YouTube and the things that are censoring us constantly and, or, um, sort of controlling what information we get because we can't handle the truth. Don't you know that Gabe can't handle it.

We're too, we're too weak. We're too weak minded. Uh, thank you for doing this. Thank you for the movie. Thank you for fighting the good fight. Ithaca movie.com.

Correct. With a K. Yes, that for the movie. Thank you for fighting the good fight. Ithacamovie.com, correct? With a K? Yes, that's the one. All right. Thank you for spending some time with us this morning. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. That is Gabe Shipton, Gabriel Shipton.

You can follow him at XGabrielShipton. He is in Australia, so it's like 9 o'clock in the morning there. We're going to switch gears, and we are going to talk about fertility for a few minutes with Dr. Amy. She is known as the egg whisperer. She's also a partner with somebody talking to my headphones here. She's not back yet. She's going to be, or one second. She's not with us yet. Oh, she's back. There she is. I found her. Okay. Sorry about that. I'll edit this from the podcast. Let me just give you a little bit. We're trying to spare our podcast listeners so much, in fact, that we have to pull out of here. She's a true nitrogen partner like myself and an enthusiast like myself.

She takes it like myself. She's a UCLA medical school grad, also residency in OBGYN at Harvard, fellowship in reproductive endocrinology and infertility, and a master's in public health management from University of Michigan. You can find out more about our relationship with TrueNiagen at drdrew.com slash TrueNiagen, T-R-U-N-I-A-G-E-N, and follow Dr. Amy at on X underscore egg whisperer. Dr. Amy, welcome to the program. Well, thank you for having me. It was such a pleasure. Huge fan of yours, Dr. Amy, welcome to the program. Well, thank you for having me. It is such a pleasure. Huge fan of yours, Dr. Drew.

I listened to you when I was in medical school with my sister, and it was so fun to just listen to you and Adam on Lovelines, and it's just such an honor to be here. And all my friends are listening. I'm so excited to be here. It's a privilege to have you. So I'm just curious about your sister. Your parents were paying for two medical stools simultaneously? They were. privilege to have you. So, uh, so I I'm just curious about your sister. Do your parents

were paying for two medical stools simultaneously? Anytime in the last 40 years, that's not good. That was not good. Yeah. Good for them. Uh, and so you've got into, uh, fertility and it's a huge topic. It's an important topic. We had triplets in the era of the super multiple sort of window of the early nineties as the completion of a fertility campaign. Just give me a little update on why you got into fertility and what the kind of new issues are on that landscape. Yeah. I mean, why I got into fertility has everything to do with my family. I tell people it runs in my blood. It's genetic for me, this desk, this room, this is the same office that my father practiced in for over 20 years. So the sperm cell that made

me was a fertility doctor and OBGYN and the sperm cell that made him was the same. And my grandfather delivered my mother, no joke. And when my mother came out, the story is he raised the baby up and said, this girl is for my son. And then when I came out, the story is I came out and I said, who wants a baby? And I think that's what happened. I just came up with that, but I thought that was a good one. Two generations of people who love bringing love into this world. And it's no wonder they named me Amy, which means loved one and then, or love. And then there's no wonder that the first two letters of my name are AI, artificial intelligence. I mean, it's like my parents predicted this, that I'd be a fertility doctor and practicing at a time when AI, to answer your other question, is truly, I think, one of the biggest breakthroughs that we're going to see in our time when it comes to fertility as far as sperm selection, embryo selection, the ability to help more patients who can't access care. AI will bring care to them in a way that we've never seen before.

So is it egg or sperm morphology that AI is going to get after? Are we going to have genetic scattergrams of what's in that cell that AI can call through and make sure there's no deletions, that kind of thing? Everything that you just said, yes. So there's a program called Violet. It's an AI program to look morphologically at eggs. There's another program called SID. And SID is an AI program that picks out the best-looking sperm. And there are other programs that look at embryos as they're developing in the incubator.

And they also have algorithms that tell us, um, the fertility doctors, which embryo to select before we put them in a uterus. Hmm. Incredible. And, uh, Susan, you want to get into this too? Cause you, I know you have a lot of strong feelings about it having been down this road. Uh, her, her, her great contribution was she predicted folate as an important supplement before fertility treatment. Remember that? Yes. Yep.

Want to speak to Amy? I got a textbook from UCLA on biology and read up on it. I was like, okay, what should I take? So that's how I discovered that. And that was back in the days they were talking about neural tube defects and improving that function with folic acid. Wow. That's very impressive. Dr. Amy says yes.

But now you... I mean, you know, I did the best I could. But now you were... It worked out okay. They all came out healthy. And now you're an advocate. This makes perfect sense to me for the oxidative state of the cell, of the embryo, of the eggs, of this whole pathway that I've been advocating for and taking supplements to increase NAD. Turns out, lo and behold, I mean, you think about it, any health function, it should enhance. And fertility is one of those functions of health. Tell me about how you got into that. And Yanni, you mentioned

also that you also take it as well as I do. Yeah. I mean, it was a brilliant patient of mine who introduced me to TruNiagen and she was an over 40 year old PhD scientist. And she had gone through IVF cycles that failed. They did not work. Her embryos were not normal, or they just didn't develop at all. And she found a mouse study that showed that by replenishing NAD plus in mice who weren't making it on their own, they had improved fertility rates. So she took it. She came to me, we did IVF and had she not done IVF with me and shared her results with me, I would have thought she was lying. Her embryos were gorgeous. She had more than one normal embryo, which is highly unusual for a woman over 40. And that was when I said, this is amazing.

I need every single person going through fertility to take it. I not only take it myself to hopefully slow the onset of menopause for me, it might also help decrease the rate of bone loss in women who are going through what I call menopause. That's what I call menopause. I don't want to call it menopause because it shouldn't start with men. You like that one. You're right. Yeah. True.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, and my patients have shared stories where, you know, they heard me talk about, or just people who listened to me on social media where they took it and then they got pregnant naturally. And that's really my goal is I want people to empower themselves with the tools so that they can get pregnant without my help. You know, that's really, I don't want people to be my patient. I want people to get pregnant at home without my help. You know, not everyone can do that, but if possible. And you have a specific protocol you use, like what dosing and frequency and whatnot? Yeah, I do. I tell patients to start low. So if someone's a little bit on the anxious side, and so many of my patients are, as you can

imagine, going through a fertility journey. So the way to start low is to get the TruNigen powder sticks first. Then you can titrate your dose in water, in your smoothie. Then the next dose is a 300 milligram pill. Yeah. I want to stop you. What are there symptoms? You're looking for adverse side effects or what are you looking for? Because I've never experienced anything taken except people say I don't look as old. So I just always wonder if that's why. I love it. Yes, you're ageless. You know, the most common side effect patients. Thank you, Trinitin. Thank you, Trinitin.

Our joke in our household is the blue pill. You know what I'm talking about? So with the, yeah, thank you. With the Trinitin, some patients experience heart palpitations, slight feelings of anxiety, and insomnia. Start at a super high dose. Yeah, like the 500 milligram dose. Young people do.

Young people. No, but I've been having a little bit of insomnia lately, and I moved up to 1,000 recently. And I thought, oh. Gynecologist, we solved your problem. Yep. Yeah, so melatonin. Magnesium or melatonin can help with that. So I advise my patients to make sure you have some melatonin. And then if you like wake up, see, I wake up jumping out of bed, you know,

I'm like, who can I help today? And I've always been like that. But true, true nitrogen, I feel like just takes that up. Like I'm a lot, like I'm a hundred percent, like all the time. And I feel like with true nitrogen, it's just like, I'm way more than that. And the thing is that if someone's not used to feeling that way, they might think something's wrong with them. And what I reassure them is like, this is actually normal. So if you feel like you're jumping out of bed, but it's like 4am, be sure to take your true niogen first thing in the morning. I advise before 10am and then slowly go up. There's no rush to get up to a thousand milligrams a day. My patients who are going through fertility treatment, my goal for them

is 1000 milligrams a day. So I say start 300 and slowly make up your, make your way up to 900. And then once you're there, get a 500 and a 1000 milligram pill bottle. And then you can kind of alternate. You don't have to take a thousand every day you know some days you can take 500 some days you can have a thousand i have three bottles i have a 300 a 500 and a thousand here i take it in my office in the mornings um so that's what i advise my patients to do too and um if any of you have who guys so i think oh no i'm i'm with you in terms of the fertility to can help help with the sperm motility and whatnot i'm sure also vitamin c so that's what i read in that book for fertility i told you to take it it worked okay so so be it oh and then no jacuzzis remember oh yeah that was all that's i'm sure sure that's in Amy's protocol right now even.

I have a team that says don't clip your balls. Yeah, keep the balls cool, but not too cool. I like you. But I want to point out, Amy, if anybody has bipolar disorder, there's no evidence that Amy has that. That's not what she's talking about. Nor have I ever read any shred of evidence that somebody with bipolar could be decompensated by this supplement. So I just want to point that out for anybody that might have the common condition.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are a number of patients who see me with mood disorders, and I don't see that it harms them. If anything, patients who have depression, I think it can help them. And then in terms of, I understand you think about this as sort of, you know, pregnancy itself is a big stress on the body. Tell me how you conceptualize that. Absolutely. I mean, crazy fact. I mean, the physical stress and amount of energy produced during a full-term pregnancy is equivalent to running a 40-week marathon, right? How about if you have three circulatory systems developing in there? That's how many marathons you feel like you were in. were you that's just on a whole nother level three it's that's yeah yeah yeah i mean pregnancy is the

most energetically expensive activity the human body can maintain for nine months and maintaining nad levels i think is really important for not only pregnancy but pre and post and this is basically why i have this i call it the 10 minute mile rule. And I tell my patients until you can run a 10 minute mile, you are not physically prepared enough for pregnancy. And I know some people have, you know, there's physical issues where they can't run a 10 minute mile, but you can use that as an analogy. So it's really important for me to, you know, educate my patients about this very fact. And that's why NAD, increasing NAD plus levels in the body is part of that. Is it something you can use during breastfeeding as well?

You can. There are some preclinical studies out of UC Davis showing that it can actually help with lactation. So if I have a patient that shares with me that she's dealing with lactation issues, I suggest that she go back on her traniogen, because that's something that she probably already had when she was trying to get pregnant with me, not with me. You know what I mean? I get you. Are there other preclinical trials you're involved with? I personally am not involved in any preclinical trials at this moment. However, that is something that we're considering. There are preclinical trials, however, that have been done showing that increased egg counts are being seen and increased life birth rates, as well as decrease in abnormalities seen in aging eggs. These are in mouse and rat models. And there are

other preclinical studies that have showed that NR supplementation improved embryo development. And these are the things that my patients, they need. They need better quality eggs, need better quality embryos because my average patient tends to be over the age of 40. And that's kind of how the world and society is right now. Our milestones in life are just happening later. And just because you've run out of healthy eggs does not mean that you've run out of a desire to have a baby. So that's kind of what I'm dealing with every day. Other wellness practices or lifestyle changes you recommend?

I do. I mean, I think I love analogies. And I thought of this one analogy this morning and I was like, it's like a duck analogy. You know, that saying you need all your ducks in a row, right? And for pregnancy, it should be the same. It should be your first duck should be relationship with yourself. Your next duck should be relationship with your partner, if partnered. The next duck should be, you know, there are all these ducks that should be in a row. And so the things that I talk to my patients about are, do you want an acupuncture duck? Do you need therapy, coaching, community groups? These are all great additions to a self

care routine. The other thing I talk to my patients about is our sleep hygiene, electrolytes, protein intake, and looking at your diet. And I have all sorts of resources that I share with my patients. So those are the little ducks that I go through with my patients. And everyone knows that saying, are your ducks in a row? So we want them in a row. You don't want your life to be a mess. You're out of shape. You know, you're taking the wrong medications, going into pregnancy. Because pregnancy is one of the most, it's a spiritual, it's a beautiful journey. And we want it to be healthy for people. And things are going to get easier after that journey.

If you've had chaos before. Yeah. Other than protein, any other dietary suggestions that are sort of easy to think about? I mean, I think a diet that's colorful and rich in antioxidants, you know, a lot of people know what the Mediterranean diet is. So I don't necessarily think you have to follow a Mediterranean diet, but I think a diet that's rich in fruits and vegetables and low in saturated fats. And there is a great book called Getting to Baby by Judy Simon and Dr. Angela Thayer that I recommend to my patients that has some of the best fertility nutrition

information out there. And then finally, other supplements that you recommend in your supplement stack. Absolutely. So aside from a really good prenatal that has choline and folic acid in it. I also recommend CoQ10. Those are the three, the few things. So CoQ10, prenatal, truniogen. And then if a patient, cause I don't want people to be just taking supplements all day long, but if someone has a problem sleeping, add in melatonin. If someone has PCOS, which is so common, I have them consider adding something like ovacetal. That might help with improving glucose levels in a more natural way. That's interesting. I'm just thinking, is there anything else? Susan, do you have any questions for Dr. Amy? I know this is an area that you feel very strongly about.

No, you're doing a great job, Drew. This is very interesting stuff. Yeah, I know. I love this. I just reposted it on Twitter. Yeah, it's a field that, you're absolutely right, everyone that goes into it, I've talked to other practitioners, people don't get,

I'm an internist, people die, they get sick, none of that. There's frustration, but usually, people don't get, people don't, like I'm an internist, people die, they get sick. None of that. There's frustration, but usually there's happiness. Well, fertility problems are no joke. Like it's, it's very difficult for women who had, I had fertility problems, but I really wanted kids. Fortunately, I was married to a doctor and it worked out, but I also went through, I know a lot about this stuff and Drew does too, but it's just, it's very confusing. And if you have to go to a fertility specialist,

you want to have somebody good like Dr. Amy. And not only that, I feel like people don't understand. Have fears. That's what they should do. It's funny to me that people don't understand that that's part of what you do if fertility is stalled out at any age, frankly, but especially as you get older,

you should be sort of, seems to me, do you have any ideas like that? To me, anybody over 35. Like are women getting pregnant later now or are we? Well, she said, yes, they're delaying sort of stages of life, but people need to be, it seemed to me if you're over 35, you should be prepared that that's going to, that could be in your future. Should people be doing it as a matter of course? Yeah. I mean, when people, I use these analogies, like if people go on a safari,

what do they do? They go to the travel clinic first. It should be the same thing about pregnancy. You should talk about your goals, what you want, how old you're going to be, when you want to have your last baby, so you can reach those goals. And our fertility declines. It's just a fact. It's not me being mean. It's not me trying to scare people, but we will all run out of eggs. It is inevitable. A fertility doctor doesn't have that magic wand. We can't all of a sudden create eggs out of nowhere. So I try with what I do on my platform, just educate people about fertility facts so that they never look back and say, I wish I had known that so that they can make the right choices for themselves to freeze eggs, freeze embryos as a way

to preserve fertility. So I just don't want people to have regret. Yeah. I've always said women should have control of their reproductive biology. It can happen now. No problem. And last question I have is, if you are going to say, let's say with freezing eggs, does the TruNiagen help the viability of those eggs and health? Yes, absolutely. So I put all my egg freezers on it. So I ask them, the 25-year-olds, for example, I suggest that they take TruNiagen, CoQ10, and a good multivitamin all at the same time. And what's the mechanism on CoQ10? It's also a mitochondrial booster. So anything that helps the mitochondria will help prevent chromosomal abnormalities in our eggs once they're fertilized.

CoQ10. Oh, after CoQ10? Yes, with CoQ10. You said true nitrogen, CoQ10. Oh, after CoQ10? Yes, with CoQ10. You said true nitrogen, CoQ10, and also a good multivitamin. A multivitamin, yeah. No, multivitamin.

A pregnancy vitamin. What do you guys call those vitamins? It can be a prenatal. It's a general multivitamin. Listen, Dr. Amy, it's been a privilege to talk to you. Congratulations on all the good work you're doing. I'm sure it was not a short road to where you are.

I'm looking at your training and I'm just adding up the number of years you spent out there. It took 17 years to figure out how to make a baby. 17, apparently. You must love seeing those little babies come out. What? It's the best. baby 17 apparently yeah well you must love seeing those little babies come out what best it's so fun to get to be a part of my patients lives or family to me that's great i bet and other than uh the egg whisper uh where do you want people to follow you anything i whisper honestly youtube instagram i also have courses eggwhispererschool.com where people who can't be my patient because of where they live

they can also learn from me so anywhere that you can type in eggwhisper maybe only fans one day that's a joke yeah but who know I don't know it's a joke but it's like that whole landscape confuses me maybe it will be

something like that one day I do have this one thing called the TUSHY method you have to go to tushymethod.com to see what I'm talking about. But my joke is that like, done and done. I mean, my joke is that like, it takes something so drastic, like so, you know, I have to say things like that because I'm still not getting people's attention about the tests that you should do to check your fertility. So I hope the things that I say will get someone to learn about their fertility so that they don't cry one day that they didn't know this. Yeah.

It's people need to be realistic about it and prepared like anything. Susan, you're trying to say something to me. No, I haven't been told I can do that yet. So let's, let's wait. I want to know what is it?

I have to clear it. Use your imagination, but we're going to get clearance from other family members before I announce stuff like that. Got it. So, Dr. Amy, we appreciate you being here. I hope you'll stay in touch and get back with us soon. Would love that. Thanks, Dr. Joe. So nice to be on.

Well done. Take care. Bye, everyone. Thank you. So, that was fun. Let me look at you guys out on the radio. I didn't say it. Well done. Take care. Bye, everyone. Thank you. So that was fun. Let me look at you guys out on the race track. I didn't say it. I know.

And out, I want to put up the schedule too because it's a little bit wonky coming up. We are going to be not here tomorrow. We are going up to Canada, as we've mentioned. Yes, plant heal, plants heal. CoQ10 is good for the heart. It's also good for people on statins because you get depleted in CoQ10. Yeah, I was taking that before. I got to take that again.

Hesitant. Oh, no, no. I'm hesitant. Oh, just stop it. Somebody's calling me a pussy for ridiculous reasons because I'm hesitant to divulge something that it's somebody else's secret, somebody else's business. So be that as it may, let's get that schedule up there. So we're actually coming back on Wednesday, which will be Kyle Kemper. Let me get all the details here on everybody. Give me a second. Day after that is Salty Cracker. Everyone has been asking,

where is Salty Cracker? He's coming back on June 27th. I think that's a Thursday. Kyle Kemper is another sibling. It's Justin Trudeau's half-brother. And then we have on, we'll go back to our usual schedule, Dr. Andrew Huff, EcoHealth Whistleblower. Dr. Christine Stabel Ben on the

Tuesday following that, July 9th. Are we going to be making off the 3rd, 4th, and 5th? Is that what's happening there? We have a show maybe on the 3rd. We're just deciding. I see. It just hasn't been scheduled yet.

Yeah. And Dave Rubin on July 10th. But there's 14 days in July. Ah, that was why you were saying that. We usually do like 10 shows a month. And the great Dave Rubin will be in studio. It's also summer. We're supposed to enjoy the long weekends.

And we've got Dr. Marty Macari scheduled up for later this month. Oh, Macarena. Not Macarena. Anyway, I appreciate you guys being here. Let me, again, look at the comments before we wrap this up. Maureen is up in Canada waiting for us. We're going to be up there

with weunify.ca. And then our wellness company buddies. Our wellness company buddies are many of the greatest hits. We're going to be rioted out. We're going to get to meet Dr. Alexander for the first time. We're going to be with Dr. McCullough. We're going to be with Steve Kirsch even.

Apparently, we're causing trouble up there already. Fantastic. Hopefully, we'll get out alive, you guys. Hopefully. Thank you, Claire. Appreciate it. And then going over to… Right.

So that's about it. You guys have nothing on your mind there. Come to Austin. Greg, we came to Austin. We were going to Austin every six weeks. Oh, come because you want to be in... Yeah, we used to come in July. It was hot as hell in August too.

But we are not on that schedule right now since your mom's house stuff wrapped up. Okay. So we'll be up in Canada this weekend. We will see you on Wednesday because we're traveling on Tuesday. Appreciate you all being here. Appreciate our guests today. And we'll see you then.

Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am

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