Ask Dr. Drew - Justine Bateman: Hollywood Is Dead. Wokeness & Generative AI Like Sora Are Just More Nails In Its Coffin. But Something New Is Rising From Its Ashes – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 434

Episode Date: December 14, 2024

Justine Bateman is not a fan of generative AI like Sora. The actor / director says GAI tech is simply the latest algorithmically-driven nail in Hollywood’s coffin of content – but something else will be born from its ashes. “… audiences will eventually feel sick about watching AI, and about all the ways in which AI will have infiltrated their lives, their job, their kids’ education, their grocery store, their insurance, etc., and they will begin to reject it wholesale,” Bateman writes in Fast Company. “Audiences will then not only reject films made with GAI but reject films that even look like they were made with GAI. They will want something real, raw, and obviously human.” Justine Bateman is an actor, director, author, and founder of the Credo23 Film Festival. She starred as Mallory Keaton in Family Ties and appeared in Desperate Housewives and Californication. Her directorial debut Violet, starring Olivia Munn, premiered at SXSW 2021. She authored bestsellers Fame: The Hijacking of Reality and Face: One Square Foot of Skin. Bateman serves on SAG-AFTRA’s AI negotiation committee. Find more at https://credo23filmfest.com and follow her at https://x.com/justinebateman 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • COZY EARTH - Susan and Drew love Cozy Earth's sheets & clothing made with super-soft viscose from bamboo! Use code DREW to save up to 40% at https://drdrew.com/cozy • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

all right we've got justine bakeman coming in today you know her the at least those of you from my vintage know her from family ties for sure she also appeared in desperate housewives in californication you can follow her on x justine bateman just like it sounds and justine bateman.substack.com she is also responsible for the credo 23 film festivals you can find out more about that at the credo c-r-e-d-o c-r-e-d there it is credo 23 film festival film fest excuse me.com and she's been on fire on x lately she's absolutely cracked me up so i thought it'd be nice to talk to her and bring her in and see what she's thinking these days i've always been a fan of hers and her whole family her brothers and uh we'll have at it.

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Because whatever's in front of me is what I'm thinking about. Speaking of somebody I want to get in front of me, Justine Bateman, again, thecredo23filmfest.com is where you can find about the film festival. Her own ex is Justine bateman again the credo 23 film fest.com as we can find about the film festival her own ex is justine bateman i suggest you follow she's been uh hysterical and on fire lately a little bit of more data if you uh did not become a fan of hers from family ties

she was also in desperate housewives and californication her directorial debut of violet starring olivia munn premiered at the South by Southwest in 2021. She has authored bestsellers, Fame, The Hijacking of Reality and Face, and One Square Foot of Skin. She also is on SAG-AFTRA's AI Negotiation Committee and has some opinions about that we'll get into. Christine, appreciate you being here. Welcome. Hi, how are you? So is my memory serving me? Did we meet on KROQ Radio in Burbank

some 30 years ago or so? Have we never met? I'm sure. KROQ, KLOS, KME-T, there were some good ones. There were some good ones. So we did meet, because I have this vague memory of us meeting there, and I'm like, I'm not sure if that's true or not. It's the vagaries of memory.

But so thank you for being here. Tell people what you're doing on X. I think it's hysterical, the sort of subtle road into the evaluation of all the wild videos that are being posted on X. That's you, isn't it? Oh, well, you know, I'm a filmmaker. And so I get curious about particular pieces of work that people are posting online. Because when you post online, you are distributing it internationally. So there's a crying genre that has been posted online for about six years or so.

So after the election, I noticed there it is again. And I thought, wow, you either were crying really hard and the thought entered your mind that, you know, I got to get my phone, I've got to record this. And then you edited it and then you posted it. Or you thought maybe what I do next on my account is not an unboxing video, but a crying video. And then you set the camera up and then one way or the other, this is how you set it up. And then I thought, you know, we're many, many years into the creator economy. And yet the videos still look, still have poor production value. So I thought, well, why don't I just talk about the production value of these videos?

And, yeah, it's a social media video critique. And over on my Substack, I've done over like 125 now, I guess. So they're all indexed over there. If there's one that you loved and you want to show a friend and you can't find it, go to that index and you can find it. They're very funny.

A lot of comment on lighting and lighting sources and what the consequences. It is, I don't know if you intend it this way, but I receive it as the most effective use of irony i have come upon in a long time satire i mean yeah if you know if you know if you know how to read satire then uh yeah it's for you it's for you yeah it was it is for me it just jumped the first time i saw one of your posts, I'm like, huh? I'm like, oh, my God, this is hysterical.

Yeah, it'll click in, right? Oh, I got it. Yeah. Oh, I got it right away. I wasn't even through the thread of it. I was like, oh, this is a great way to talk to these people. But when I say these people, and both the people that are posting these things and the people that are receiving them are enthusiastically endorsing them.

What do you think is going on with people? What's your take on what this is? You know, society, there's been a pressing down on society for acutely the last four years. And I first noticed it start like eight years ago, where people aren't allowed to say anything. I know you've spoken about this a lot, but people weren't permitted to say anything. And there was very little innovation. I mean, someone like Elon Musk got a few things out there. It was kind of a miracle. But a lot of things just, when you look at the culture, when you look at

every era, every decade in the 20th century, you see new things came up, the 50s, the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, and around, I don't know, 2004, 2005, it just kind of sort of stopped. You know, tech was center stage, been center stage for way too long and um the internet kind of flattened time too and we just and then you have this uh this mob mentality momentum which allowed this cancel culture that's done now thank god and you had not much new things emerge during that time. And one of the things that was tamped down was satire and comedy. And when you tamp down something like that, you know, society is a balance. It's like any sort of area in nature. Everything that's in that area is important.

And you find out the hard way that something was important when you eliminate it. Like if you eliminate a certain insect area, then you have a vine that's growing out of control and choking the trees because that vine was primary food source for the for the insect. And so satire and comedy are like that. They sort of hedge in. They hem in rather a society. And that was not around. So there's many other things that were missing that made our society kind of go like berserker for a little while there.

But I think people are hungry for it because they realize it's a necessary nutrient of society, hungry for satire. So is this, I'm looking up Chesterton's Fence. That's what I was thinking. Have you ever heard of Chesterton's fence? No, tell me about it. You should familiarize

with this. It's a principle. I'm going to read you what the AI says. I know you love AI. You tell me what you know of it. No, honestly, you tell me what you know of it. I don't need to hear any AI crap.

Okay. It's essentially Honestly, you tell me what you know of it. I don't need to hear any AI crap out. Okay. It's essentially, it's essentially, thank you for setting me straight. It's essentially a theory. I think it came from the 19th century that you shouldn't be just rushing to kill the insect because that insect sits in an ecosystem that might, you know, you can think about it, but you better understand

that that insect might be there for a reason. That's essentially what a Chesterton's fence is. That you shouldn't, a reminder that you should respect the past and respect the status quo, even though you might need to change things. It's not saying don't change things.

It's saying don't have something I see a lot of these days with irrational certitude that you must change things. There's certitude. Have you heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect? Are you familiar with this? Dunning-Kruger? Yes. Dunning-Kruger is, yeah. Ignoble Awards. It won

an Ig Nobel Award one year. Okay. Okay. Fair enough. It's essentially the theory that if you know very little about something, you immediately think you're an expert and you actually know shit. But when you start to learn a lot and you really become an expert,

you realize there's so much no, you don't know shit. And you can sort of get an imposter effect. When people are absolutely certain about everything, you can be sure they're on the Dunning-Kruger curve where they really don't know much. So irrational certitude has been alive and well lately, it seems to me. That's true. In what I read about that, it gave a good example. It said that if somebody is not very smart, they'll walk into a room of 10 people, and they'll assume that they're one of the smartest people in there.

Someone who is very smart walks into the room and is not quite sure where they sit in, you know, because they know, like you're saying, they know how much they don't know. Right. This is, and I don't want to be accused of accusing people of being dumb. That's not the point. The point is know thyself. The point is know where you feel. I feel dumb all the time. And I competed in my training with really smart people. Trust me, there are really smart people out there. And they're pretty impressive and pretty interesting. And when you get exposed to some of those, you start to understand kind of where you fit on the spectrum of things. But humility has also been in short supply, I would say.

Well, yeah. I mean, I think basically you just have a lot of, really just it's fear. You know, you have a lot of people who are just they're terrified that they don't matter. They're terrified that, you know, of getting another call from mom, I think like activists are, are, uh, you know, uh, Martin Luther King and people like that. I think everyone else is like, maybe you're just voicing your opinion about something really. Like I'm not one, you know, I mean, anytime somebody tries to put that on me, I'm like, no, that's not so. But if you, if you've called yourself an activist because you're posting certain things on social media or you have you start to feel that you have a sense of identity and accomplishment and you're calling, quote, calling people out.

And I mean, the first if you're going to succeed at that, the first thing you have to do is get rid of the comedy. So I think it was very specific. It's it was the revenge of the hall monitors. It was the the party poopers, the people who don't get invited anywhere. And finally, they could exact their revenge, really. But bottom line is they don't feel any worth themselves. They don't feel like they matter themselves. mentality momentum is over, which is necessary in order to do that job of the sort of armchair activist where you're calling people out. I hope that these people now can see their value without that drug. It's sort of like an addict, you know, or an alcoholic alcoholic you've just taken the alcohol away from all of these people and now they're going to have to adjust to a life without that's a good thing but that's a good

much like with treating the alcoholic that's how you deal with the character issues the trauma all their underlying stuff comes can only come up after you remove the drug, right? True. So I like that frame. I like that frame. It's often more, I don't want to say comfortable, I don't know, if the alcoholic has hit their bottom rather than the alcohol just being removed. So a lot of these people are going to have a hard time adjusting now to how to be themselves, having to see what they are, having to find. But I agree with you. I'm excited for them that now they can discover who they really are. Yeah, I'm reading a book called The True Believer, and it cites a lot of this stuff you're mentioning about the kind of people

that get swept into these movements. And I didn't realize how often this happened in human history. I guess it happens all the time. We're just having our latest version of it. I always thought, this happened in the 20th century, happened in 1790 France, and that's about it. And it's going to over now. Nope, turns out not so. There's a great book.

I can't remember the title right now, Drew, but I'll email it to you or something. Yeah. Oh, I've talked about it before. It's about mobs, and it was written in the 1800s, and I pulled it out during 2020 because I'd read it before. Gustave Le Bon. No. Gustave Le Bon.

Another guy. Incredible. Extraordinary. There's The Crowd, A Study of the Popular Mind. no gustave lebon about uh incredible uh extraordinary extraordinary there's the crowd to study the popular mind gustave lebon there's also extraordinary popular wait wait another one extraordinary popular delusions and the extraordinary popular delusions look this yeah madness of crowds yes it's a two it's a two volume yeah yeah well but a different author that's it the madness of crowds are different anyway it goes into like tulip mania the 1600s the um uh with the witch burning and all of this and i looked at it before before but then i picked it up again in 2020 because i looked

at before and thought what you said oh these are just oh that's what people used to be like we've evolved though right but it's the beginning of 2020 when everybody was flipping out and i was like oh shit we're exactly the same we are not different and that momentum i could feel that momentum start then i was like oh man this is this won't end until enough individuals decide this this is over individuals and that's what the election uh you know earlier uh you know what was a month ago that uh that's what that did it showed enough individuals were like no i'm done with this yeah and uh there's you know obviously a lot of things, a lot of moving parts to all of this. And I've been saying lately that, look, in addition to apologies for things you got wrong, I would like everybody to practice apologizing for what you got wrong.

I'm looking for things that I got wrong to apologize for. I think it's a very healthy thing, and I want to model that. Justine, if you see me getting that. If you saw me get, Justine, if you see me getting something wrong, please let me know. I will happily apologize for it. But I will not apologize to the mob. I will apologize to Justine if I've done her wrong. But to that point, I was thinking,

those of you who told somebody to mask up between meals or yelled at their neighbor for having their family over for Thanksgiving or asked somebody for their papers, which happened to me a few times, screaming at me, where are your papers? All of you would have been prison guards in 1940. That's what you would have been. And you certainly would not have resisted the Nazi movement. You would have been a part of it. You would have been a brown shirt. And you need to look at yourself honestly and admit that to yourself

and make sure you correct that. You don't want it. I don't want it. But you showed yourself to be somebody that would get swept into this bullshit in exactly that way. You're part of the brainwash group. And you need to know you're prone to that and make sure it doesn't happen to you again. Well, I think, you know, I just did a post on my Substack about how one can be attacked by the enemy, the other side,

like whatever you want to call it. If you have buttons, you can be hit. You can be attacked in your mind or through other people. And, you know, I think a lot of these people that went along with this momentum were just terrified. So I... That's part of the movements. That's always in these movements. Fear,

fear is what they, what they play upon. And I don't, I feel bad for them. I don't, I'm not, not angry. I feel bad for them. But there's a way to get rid of those fears. And oftentimes they're irrational fears. So, you know, I give sort of a step-by-step if they want to go, uh, look at that sub stack, um, post, uh, It's just called spirit level. But yeah, I feel bad for them for that. But there's a way out, you know,

there's a way. And it's just anybody who's terrified can get swept up in something like that. Oh, absolutely. You and I probably could give it the right circumstance. I mean, it could happen.

You have to stand guard. Right. I am. Where is I? I had your, here, yeah, I have the spirit level. You want to talk about how it works? Sure. I go into a little bit in my book, Fame, you know, when I had, when somebody criticized me and I decided they were right and I was wrong, and then I had to examine, like, why did I do that? What irrational fear did I have that served as an anchor point for that belief? You know what I mean? Because if I don't have that button, I'll give you an example.

Like, if you're with a friend and they say, oh, we're going to meet my parents, and the mom says to your friend, like, oh, you're wearing that yellow jacket again. Um, and then the parents go away and then you guys, you and your friend go on to dinner. And then your friend says, can you believe my mother? And they're very upset. You believe what my mother's saying. You believe she brought up my jacket and you're like, oh, I don't know. She just said, oh, you're wearing the yellow jacket. But so it didn't hit you. You don't have that. You don't have that button about your mom talking about your clothes.

But because your friend does, it serves. She has an irrational fear that's a foundation that is the anchor point for that. And so the enemy can attack your friend through the mom. And people see like the attacks are very similar as you go, as you carry on in life. You know, something your mom said to you is like very similar to what your first grade teacher said to you is very similar to what your boss said to you. And you're like, how can that be? How can they all know about that button? It's not possible.

But the enemy knows about that button. So I don't know if that sounds odd to some people, but if you think about it, even if you think about it that way, just as an experiment, it just makes things more clear. So you got to endeavor to get rid of the button. Yeah, you're tilting at,

and I've been working with narcotics and mental health for a long, long time. And you're tilting at something i've been saying for a while which is that there has been a spiritual vacuum in this country there's something wrong with the spirit however you conceive of it uh and i feel like you're sort of pointing at that gently oh this whole uh like oppression over the last uh eight years has been uh very much i was gonna say 100 i'd say like an 86 spiritual i mean it's definitely um i mean there's i mean if you there's a uh i mean people who are familiar with spiritual warfare will know what i'm talking about but there's a spirit called Jezebel that shuts the mouths of prophets.

In the Old Testament, you love she was the wife of one of the kings. Anyway, when you think about it, what prophets do is they begin new things, right, with what they're saying. They open awareness. They begin new things. And so when you think about it, that, that really is the spirit that would tamp down on anything new happening in a society, not just what prophets are saying, but what, what new things, I mean, just look, like I said, just look at culture. I mean, we've had, why do you think like the whole film business is just reboots and rehashings like for a solid 15 years. There's some exceptions of course, but that,

when's the last time we had that? Like that's, that's unique. I feel like to the last 15, 20 years. Anyway. So I mean, I could say more about what you do with that spirit, but one of the things I said is like, just enough individuals just said, okay, enough with this. I want to move on. I want something new. And so the momentum-

Are you, you drop profundities and move on. So I'm going to not let you do too much of that without drilling a little bit. So is this sort of a, is this a religious spirituality or where do you locate that spiritual deficit? Oh, I don't know. I mean, this is just my take on religion. Religion can be good. It couldn't be sort of organizational for somebody. It can be organizational for them not only in the way they're trying to get an idea of God, but also within the community. Some churches are great at taking care of those in the community and all this. But the trouble comes with, and this happens quite often, people trying to twist scripture and religion for their own end. And so that's where a lot of- You're back to the enemy again. Well, that's exactly what operates through that. There's actually one.

I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of Bibles that do this, but there's a Bible, if anyone's interested, called the Spirit-Filled Life Bible by Jack Hayford, who ran Church on the Way in Van Nuys, California. Anyway, it has definitions to all these words like sin. That was the first one I looked up and I went, I went, are you kidding me? That means to miss the mark? Like in the Greek, I was like, are you joking? Like all this time, you know, anyway, it makes it, you know, certain church leaders have made certain words seem like sort of terrible indicators of how awful you are, which is not what those words mean. So anyway, that's helpful. And that Bible version also has historical context for a lot of the, for all the books that were written and stuff. So that's really useful too. Anyway, so religion can be good for some,

but the most important aspect of religion, if it's going to be useful, is to facilitate a relationship between an individual and God. And whatever they want, you know, if you can call it higher power or you're going to call it nature or the sun, whatever, it's so long as it's something that you believe, or you're going to, um, take the chance and believe completely cares about you, knows everything about you. We'll never leave you. We'll always give you wisdom. We'll always help you. And you're good to go,

you know, and oftentimes, and then you'll, I feel like, I feel like then you're able to get rid of the buttons because then you're able to get rid of these irrational fears because you can swap an irrational fear for a belief that you're going to be okay. Whatever that irrational fear is, it's usually about like. Take the fear and push the fear to faith. Yeah, that you're not going to feel okay. Yeah, but you know. Yeah, yeah. There's lots of aspects to faith. Yeah, that you're not going to feel okay. Yeah, but you know, there's lots of aspects to that. Yeah.

Yeah, and of course, I've been dealing with people who have been in spiritual crisis for many, many years, and there's lots of versions of that, but it does help. To have a spiritual program of some type really helps people when they're in trouble. And so when you were talking about

these people that have their fix taken away from them, they, they're going to do something. And a lot of it is trauma and victimization and all these things. But, but again, these are things you can choose to deal with in different ways rather than

acting out. And so much of the mob stuff has been an acting out. And I completely agree with you when it all started. I was like, where are the comedians? Why aren't they making fun of this? They were scared too. They were completely frightened of cancellation.

And it is the mob action that prevented the culture from moving. I think you're right. I think the culture got frozen because people were so scared to do anything. Yeah, and kind of rightly so. There were a lot of examples made of other people uh so it was not for nothing like i said that momentum necessary was there i think i think we we should remember that dave chappelle gave us permission to bring comedy back it was i really think he was the breakthrough moment uh he did that but i have have to take a break, Justine. I know we got a lot more to talk about.

We got to get into why you reject AI and why you wouldn't even read an AI and why you have strong feelings about that and what it's doing to the entertainment industry and film industry in particular. And again, other than X, is there a place you want people to go to find you? Yeah, you just go to my sub stack.

I'm going to do a kind of talk show, whatever. I don't know what to call it yet. You know, side-by-side video, just chatting with people. And also I'll be showing my two new films, Feel and Look, after they premiere at the film festival, those will show on my sub stack exclusively. If you're a paid member, yes?

If you're paid, yeah. Everybody. Paid member. Alright, we'll be right back after this. Wellness Company knows that taking charge of your family's health care is a top priority and being rationally ready, who knows what the future will hold for us now TWC has a service to cover your family's medical needs including and especially prevention for just $100 a month the one wellness elite

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Go to drdrew.com we love this stuff every day we're drinking and Susan does not miss a day without this stuff Paleo Valley 15% off drdrew.com slash paleovalley for 15% off your first story 20% off when you subscribe we are talking to Justine Bateman you can see her on X by the same

name credo23filmfest.com and justinebateman.substack.com. And I appreciate you being here, Justine. I appreciate you sharing your ideas with us. We had mentioned before the break that we would go into a little bit of your disdain. I'm not sure it's a strong enough word. Concerns, I guess, would be a better way of framing it about AI. What are your concerns? Well, to me, generative AI is one of the worst ideas we've ever had in the sense that it will be used primarily by people who are looking to eliminate

contact with employment of the care of other people. It doesn't make, I just, you know, about entertainment in particular, it doesn't make better films. It's not being used in the film business because, you know, it will, you know, usher in a whole new wave of incredible films that will change our lives. No, it's being used in the entertainment business because it's cheaper and faster than using people, period. And the insulting aspect of it and the criminal aspect of it really is that it is completely based on other people's work. So it can't function without first being fed 100 years of films and TV series.

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that's interesting. It's not a spontaneous creation. No, it's like a blender. It can't function without being fed. If you want it to spit out a novel, but you fed it are films it's it doesn't know what you're talking about you got to feed it in millions of of of books and then you know if you say i want a book about you know pandas that ride motorcycles so long as you fed in books about

motorcycles books about pandas and you know anything else it can spit out a frankenstein spoonful of it so that's what's's what's truly offensive about it. It's not some new tech. It is like that AI thing you were going to read me. That's simply an algorithm that's gone in and summarized a bunch of stuff that human beings have said about fill in the blank. And it's prone to... Wasn't the promise, though,

that there would be some sort of spontaneous, synthetic component to it? Like what? I don't know. Something new. I really don't know very little about AI. It's just the fantasy is, oh, it'll create something new.

Let me push back on you a little bit just to see what you say. So you don't like that it's, oh, it'll create something new. Let me push back on you a little bit just to see what you say. So you don't like that it's again ripping off previous other people's creations and that it obviates contact

and employment between and amongst human beings, which I understand. But let's say let me just say all technological advancement has capacity to do that kind of impact, certainly on employment. Would it be accurate to talk about the fact that it is absent creativity? And isn't that really what these projects are supposed to be all about with creativity look it's not you have the people who are saying that it's a tool but they don't understand human nature at all and

they don't understand greed at all so it's like you want to bring ai generative ai into the film business it's like putting a bag of money in the corner and going don't worry nobody's going to touch it the ceos the heads of studios the streaming companies they i mean they were never in the film business anyway it was you know they're in the tech business of course they're all going to use it why wouldn't they it's it's it's just naive to imagine that it will be kept in its place or something. And the thing I dislike most about it is it disrespects, it degradates being a human. That's what I dislike most about it. Yeah, that's the part I'm hearing you,

that's the part I was sort of drilling at is that the humanity is expunged from this instrument. And I, as a relatively naive person, I can't appreciate what that means. I really can't. And you're trying to sound an alarm. So I'm guessing you come up against a lot of people like me. Sure, there's a lot of people that don't see it that way. But I'm not sounding the alarm. I'm not trying to stop it.

I'm trying to make clear to people that what's happening right now and what will continue to happen. The only way these AI companies can get you to subscribe to, to subscribe to their services, right? Chat GPT and the rest, the paid services is to convince you you can't do it. And when you convince people they can't do it, and then you have AI, and I talked about this like over a year ago, being used in insurance companies to deny claims.

I talked about that a year ago. And you have, I'm not saying that to justify what that, you know, murder did. I understand. But you have that happening. You have people losing their jobs over it. You have infecting schools, which I think is absolute child abuse. We're going to have the dumbest collection of adults in about 15 years that have ever walked the earth. Because not only will they not know how to write for themselves or do any of these other things that we value in society now, they also won't know how to like make butter and chop wood and all the things that

people knew how to do in the dark ages. So I don't think AI should be anywhere, general AI should be nowhere near a school or education. And it dismisses and also lets people off the hook to actually develop themselves and to work. Anything new is going to come out of people. And look back at all of history, all of history, all of it, everything we know has come, you know, innovations and ideas and art and music has come through people, hasn't come through an algorithm. And that's not going to change.

And what this will do, it proliferates enough. You won't see this whole kind of the spiritual pressing down that proliferated because of the cancel, you know, the mob mentality momentum. That will increase. But the good news is know, the mob mentality momentum, that will increase. But the good news is that there are people like myself, filmmakers who are dedicated to the future of filmmaking, and that's the Credo 23 Film Festival.

No AI is allowed. And also all the proceeds after costs go to the filmmakers. But we're making a tunnel through this sort of inferno. And as much as I'm saying this is a bad idea, if you use it, you'll never know what you can do. You're just stopping yourself right there. You'll never know what you can do as far as research on your own.

You'll never know what you can do as a writer. You'll never know what you can do as a filmmaker. Anything, fill in the blank, anything. You'll never find out what you can do. And writer. You never know what you can do as a filmmaker. Anything, fill in the blank, anything. You'll never find out what you can do. And you'll never have those new ideas coming through you out into society. But as much as I'm saying this, I'm not trying to stop it. I'm just going to point at people while they're doing it, you know, these CEOs that are making this happen,

these maniacs like Sam Altman. And listen how they talk. When you hear how they talk, they are saying this is spiritual. This is this. And when you think about it, they're trying to create a type of antichrist. And go with me for a second on this. They're promising always be with you, right? You have like AI.

You don't even have to experience grief. You can feed your dead relatives photos and videos and voice into an app, and you can have mom who died last year talking to you every day on an app, right? Always with you, always there for you, can always give you wisdom. It's not really wisdom. It's just rehashed ideas, you know, Wikipedia entries and Reddit posts all chopped up together and refed to you. It can love you. I mean, go read Marc Andreessen's like, this is how AI is going to save the world. Every single category he talks about is like a,

it's like a plot to a horror movie, including Megan. That's in there. You know, it'll take care of your kid and love your kid and, you know, help them with their homework and all of this. It really is. Go check it out. My wife's interested in it. Can I get some of that? The Megan?

I don't know if you're – we had triplets, and so anything that helps take the heat off. We're like, okay, really? We're in. I don't know if I did a good enough job. Yeah. That's really funny. Anyway, so.

But I. Bad idea. But at the same time, and this is where people's cognitive dissonance, you know, increases on me. It's being, there are a lot of structures in our society now in education, in politics, in entertainment, where the people that were in charge of these structures did not allow any growth or movement.

And again, look at the 20th century. We had growth and movement every single decade, right? It occurred. It moved. It changed, right? Well, the last 15, 20 years, we haven't had that, right? It occurred. It moved. It changed it, right? Well, the last 15, 20 years, we haven't had that, right? 20 years, yeah. The answer we can see was, well, then we have to break them.

So Donald Trump is being utilized, big picture, right? Being utilized to break that structure. And new things will come through it in politics. Generative AI is being used to break the entertainment business. And new things will emerge through it. What is going to emerge because the entertainment business structure is being broken is going to be a new genre, something that has been delayed for 20 years. And I'm so excited for it.

Like my whole reason I was born is for this thing that's emerging now on the other side. Oh, good. That's nice to see that you see this as a positive thing ultimately. Can you express to me a little more what you mean by the spiritual pushing down? What did you mean?

I mean, can you help us understand what that is exactly? Because I think you're still talking about that here with this too. Yeah, in a different way. This has to do with the breaking of structures so that new things can pop up. And certainly that pressing down that we had over the last eight years was very helpful to keep that structure pressed down and keep everything the same. Everything is the same. Also making people feel like whoever's got their own personal brand or whatever,

the influencers or whatever, the idea that they need to stay the same. Because you have advertisers where it's a lot easier to sell to people if they stay the same. Anyway, not to go off on a tangent, but a lot of people invested in maintaining a particular brand, which is not how we're supposed to function. So the pressing down was just used, I mean, the way that was able to come in and press down on us was that we had a lot of fear. And we had, and Drew, maybe you've come across this, we had this, suddenly we had this worship of victimhood. And that really gave a lot to to all of this because suddenly that apparently that's a common thing in these mass movements apparently that's in there i was reading about it and i was like wow there it is same kind of thing because you know in the past and now going forward you'll have a oh what's this quote here will Will you read it to me? I can't see it.

I can't see it. What is that? What do you got? this is a quote that you had posted from Michael Schellenberger about, he's a good guy to follow too. Um, yeah, it's really interesting.

This, this victim. So what's in it? Wait, what's in the quote? Hang on a second. What, what is the,

what is it? Yes. The, the quote that from justine's part it says it is quite gratifying to feel guilty if you haven't done anything wrong they are trying to escape from the pressures of very present and actual problems into a cheap sentimentality and she says it's a perfect explanation of motive for the now defunct woke army yeah and that and michael but that quote is from what michael was uh quoting and i don't know what

that book i think it was what the book i'm reading i just it sounds so familiar to me it sounds exactly like the the uh true believer book a rent a r no he's talking about he's no he's talking about hannah arendt yeah it's hndt. It talked about cheap sentimentality. Yeah, that was Hannah Arendt. Yes. from, and that's the goal, right? I mean, everything I'm saying, the relationship with God, the whole thing, the whole goal is to become the most yourself as possible. Because when you do that, you get rid of the fears that keep you from that, then man, we all benefit. You're living a full life and everybody benefits from whatever is now freely flowing through you because, okay. So in the past, if you had something that was blocking you from that or now going future into the, you know, going forward, you will go to a therapist or 12 steps or whatever works for you.

And you would get at the root reasons and get rid of it. Well, what happened with this whole woke thing, the way that started is people started and I would have to give some thought on exactly how the, I did a post on the Victim Olympics, but how exactly the championing the victim, like making that aspirational, making that aspirational. And I think it has to do, just off the top of my head now, I think it has to do with seeing people getting attention

for truly having Asperger's or truly, yeah, it was the whole Me Too thing, right? It was that. And that's what I write about. That was a early chapter. That was an early chapter, right? I think this was probably stuff before that, though, I suspect. That's why I wrote, this is how the Me Too movement became the Me, Me, Me, Me Too moment.

And that was people seeing attention being paid to other people that had had these very unfortunate situations. And then wanting to participate in the conversation, but not being able to. And if you're prone to feeling left out, this moment in history is going to be the worst moment you could have been in because it's so very easy to feel left out. All you have to do is open X or Facebook or whatever. And you're like, I don't qualify for the trending hashtag. You know, how do I be a part of this? Then they started widening. They started lowering the bar for qualifying for that.

And then you had, and then you had people, that's it. And then you had people wanting to hold onto that as if it was a badge on a Girl Scout sash. You know, I have, I have this invisible disability and this, and I was this, and I was this, and I was this, and not wanting to fix it, not wanting to go to therapy or 12 step program or anything, or get at the root of it because they're getting attention because of these illnesses, if you will. I mean, it was truly Munchausen syndrome for a lot of people. And they felt that they got more attention and were more important by holding onto these things than they would be if they let go of them. That's how it seemed to me. I want to change gears a little bit.

We are kind of running short on time. You and I could talk all day, I have no doubt. Your book on fame, when was that? Maybe 2017, is that right? I feel like you were early to talk about fame. Am I remembering that correctly? And then some of the distortions and effects of fame? Maybe.

I mean, it could be. And it goes into what it was like, the life cycle of fame, from beginning, equilibrium, and then the without when it goes away. So I experienced the full um life cycle and some people like brad pitt you know you go to equilibrium and he'll die at the equilibrium you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah yeah but then also how we have to still is taylor swift still has a positive slope to all her stuff just keeps getting bigger it's crazy but she's so young and my who knows but

whatever i get i get your point but keep going yeah and then how how people democratize the seeking of fame and they started quantifying people's value instead of qualifying it you know instead of qualifying it by saying oh this person's a beautiful uh violinist and uh and they do good for others or i don't know how however they're qualifying it and they start quantifying it by saying oh you have x number of followers or retweets or whatever and so that's all that's all just a measure of fame it's all just a measure of fame itself not a reason you and you know i did some studies on this and the most narcissistic people were the ones that were reality show.

And it was before the social media, I'm sure the same applies. But people that were like news journalist or cellist or violinist, low narcissism, their fame was just a feature of their ability. They didn't seek it separately from what they were doing as a profession. Right. Interesting, right? it separately from what they were doing as a profession right interesting right um i just wonder if you had any other thoughts on you know because this this somehow to me the whole fame seeking fame phenomenon dovetails into this conversation we're having i'm not sure i have a clear thought about it yet but i'm just wondering if you did well when you think about it yet, but I was wondering if you did. Well, when you think about it, you used to just be, who was going to know about you if you were doing anything? I mean, unless you were on national

television or in a movie or in a political arena, how would anyone know if you're in Boise, Idaho or wherever? How is anyone going to know whatever you're doing? And social media really completely changed that. You can be anybody, anywhere, and suddenly you're a huge hit doing something. Maybe it is of great value, and maybe it's great because, oh, we found you, and otherwise we wouldn't have known about you over there in Boise, Idaho. But for a lot of people, it's just, they, I think they almost divest themselves of the seeking of their true gifts and talents in favor of possibility of becoming famous.

If only for a day, by tweeting something that got everybody angry or something. And I think that's a shame only because we then don't get to find out. If they're spending so much energy doing that, then we don't get to find out what their true skills and talents are. And as a society, we miss out. So when I think about what you've done, your brother's done, there's so much quality and creativity in what you guys do.

Were you raised around creative? What was your family of origin like? I have no idea. I was definitely raised uh amongst taste you know good comedy good good films good lighting um proper lighting follow follow justine's ex don't know what i'm talking about my camera is stable i am at eye level i have you know i have lighting on myself yeah i don't want to get i don't have that's another one she's way into i don't i don't want to have to critique myself yeah you don't you know she doesn't like this shot doesn't like this shot she doesn't like this shot. She doesn't like this shot. She doesn't like this shot.

Or backlit. Think it through. Look at your frame before you start recording. It's easy enough to turn yourself around so the window is behind your camera and the light is on you, right? I've got a wife that makes, Susie, she's way into that.

And I would be one of your critiques if I were left to myself. I've got somebody that carefully- Up the nose, double chin look. Like, here's my tan. That's Justine's favorite. Yeah. You think about it,

they are looking at themselves while they record it so it's not that they're aware and then they are posting it so they looked at it before they posted it i mean there's just i don't know where to start you can see what you're doing well listen uh we are about out of time i want to give uh caleb and susan a chance to crack at you if they have any questions uh this has been really fun and really interesting i'm tempted to talk a little tulips with you too just so we can talk a little about hysterias but susan anything that your friend that hawk too he was bad but anyways um i love the yeah i mean how do we make that popular um but i i like the thing you say about how we repeat like hollywood repeats itself like it just i that always drives me crazy it's like let's

can we just do something different you know and is ai going to make it worse like we have to watch the same tv show and a different form because it was popular um You know, the creative side. What's that? Justine? Yeah, oh, sure. Yeah, that is what they're going to do. Yeah. We're stuck with it for a while.

Yeah, and I just, I can't stand that. But, but, hold on. Yeah, but new things. I'm saying like, yeah, you're going to see a lot of, you know, discomfort and destruction here, but awesome things. Like I've just made two films that are of that flavor of the new, this new genre. And these are the kinds of films we're trying to pick for the Credo 23 Film Festival as well. You know, no AI. And also we're looking for like kind of fresh looks at things um because the shame of it is that a lot of you know we don't have a lot of new

filmmakers doing new things because they look at sort of the landscape the the professional landscape like what kinds of things are they going to be hired to do? And a lot of the new films you'll see look like auditions in order to get, in order to direct content, which is not filmmaking. And I really encourage if there are any filmmakers listening to this, like do what you know you're supposed to do. Otherwise you won't be on your path and none of us will be able, you know, something is supposed to come through you and you're supposed to do. Otherwise, you won't be on your path and none of us will be able, you know, something is supposed to come through you and you're going to be eliminating the possibility of us enjoying that. You've got to do what you know you're supposed to do. And don't worry, like you'll be able to make a living. If you're on your right path,

you'll be able to make a living. Don't be afraid. One of the analogies I've been thinking about in recent years is Galileo and the Spanish Inquisition. And we have been under, you know, your idea of the sort of spiritual pressure is like having been under the influence of the Spanish Inquisition. You know, the historical memory of that body is this horrific, you know, the Grand Inquisitor and the Otto de Fay and all this stuff. But in reality, they were just an academic board. They were just a legal board, sort of an academic panel that when they evaluated Galileo, they said, you might be onto something. But damn, if you're right, all of our biblical interpretation goes away and we're not really ready for that right now.

So why don't you just shut up? And so that's all it was. And we've got a lot of that kind of thing going on lately. And which side do you want to be on? The Spanish Inquisition or Galileo's? And both with science and creative endeavors, I'd suggest you'd be on the side of Galileo, but go ahead. But Drew, there's an interesting thing there.

So yes, what you just said also ties into, in biblical times, in New Testament, the Pharisees were like not wanting, because everything Jesus was saying took away their professional positions, right? Absolutely. What we have here is, ties into some of the stuff you're bringing up about fame.

It ties into like, God damn it, I want to be famous. God damn it, I want to shine. I want to be out there. I want people to notice me. What if I'm just invisible? What if I'm just nothing in Boise, Idaho? Nobody's ever going to see anything that I ever do. What if I don't matter?

And then having, and then seeing that there are some people that, I mean, this is just how it is. There's nothing you can do about it. There's some people that are gifted at organizing. There are people that did at filmmaking. There are people that gifted at music. And if you're not, it can be very frustrating because that looks like a very easy way to become famous. But like you said, it's just a by-product of actually doing your skill or talent. And so a lot of these people, it was, it's just a byproduct of you actually doing your skill or talent. And so a lot of these people, it was a very, especially in LA, a very heavy, like, hall monitor presence. Debbie Downer, hall monitor, party pooper, you know?

Well, I'm not going to let you. I want everybody who's going to have a party, just shut up. You can't do it. And I'm going to call a party. Just shut up. You can't do it. And I'm going to call you out if you do it. Nobody can make anything new. Oh, that, oh, that is a, oh, that comedy that, that is insulting to this type of people and that type of people and that type of people and that type of people. And it's offensive and it's ableist and it's this and it's that. And it's like, and they had the momentum to shut people up. So I feel like it was not,

you're going to ruin my current position like it was Spanish Inquisition or the Pharisees. But I feel like this one was, I see an opportunity to shine. Oh, I see what you're saying. With my invisible. Less institutional. With my back.

More mob, less institutional. Yeah. I see an opportunity to shine beyond you. And I want to take that action. And the only way I can succeed is if I make sure I shut all of you up. I can't make this happen unless I do. And that's what we had for eight years. So I would suggest everybody check out Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. It's not an easy read, by the way.

It's an old book and it reads a little choppy and a lot of interesting history in there. I'm reading a book called The True Believer. It's very interesting. You might look at even Eric Larson's book about the early 1930s where you see the early nazi movement how that got going uh it's and then lebon gustave lebon the crowd where you studied the 1790 french revolution it's we've been through or maybe probably still going through something it warrants us all kind of being aware of it thinking thinking about it, adjusting your own thoughts and feelings about it if you've been someone that you think might've been swept into stuff.

I don't want to judge people for being a human in this time. 70% of people in mass formations just want to be left alone and 10% or five or 10% throw the BS towel and 20% are brainwashed. And if you have a tendency to be brainwashed, you should know that about yourself if that's what happened to you. And if not, you were in the 70% just wanting to get along, it's hard. It's hard to stand up when it's so dangerous. I get it.

It is really hard. It was dangerous, Justine. It was dangerous. It really was. And people want to, my film Violet is kind of a map to, if you're someone who makes fear-based decisions and don't want to do that anymore, it's sort of a map. It stars Olivia Munn and Justin Theroux. It's a map to go from a fear-based decision life to a instinct-based decision life.

Also there's a, if, if, if I got filmmakers in here or artists or anything, there's a Tarkovsky book, um, Andre Tarkovsky, the director. Um, and I'm just looking up, uh, something in time. If you guys, um, uh, architect of time. No, Maybe you guys can look it up. Caleb's really good at it. Caleb, you see a Tarkovsky, something of time. That's a fantastic book to be reading about. It really captures this new creative era we're going through right now. Time Within Time? Diaries? No.

Andre Tarkovsky, the director. Yeah, that's the name of one of his books. Let me see if I can find the other one. I'm trying to look it up. Sculpting in Time? Yes, thanks. Sculpting in Time. That's a terrific book to read at this moment

as well for any artists out there. Excellent. Justine, exceeded my expectations. I knew this would be fun. I appreciate all the laughs you've given me on X and I'll check out the sub stack and I hope everyone else will as well. They're sculpting in time. There it is.

Andre Tarkovsky. Anything else before we wrap it up, Justine? Hey, if anybody, the Credo 23 Film Festival is the end of March. If anybody wants to come, we have badges on sale, and it's going to be fun.

It's in one place, so we're not all spread out. We'll all be together for the two and a half days here in Hollywood at the beautiful American Legion Hall Post 43, which is by the Hollywood Bowl.

Yeah, Hollywood Boulevard by the Hollywood Bowl. Or on, what street is that? Highland. Highland by the Hollywood Bowl. There you go. All right. Thank you so much and hope we'll see you again very soon. We still have to finish our tulip conversation. Oh, yeah. Tulip mania. hope we'll see you again very soon. We still have to finish our tulip conversation. Oh, yeah.

Tulip mania. Tulip mania. There it is. Thanks, Justine. Appreciate it. And for the rest of you, let's put up our upcoming guest schedule here and see who's coming. What they have booked for me. Matthias Desmet and Dr. Aaron Cariotti coming in on the 12th.

That should be very interesting. Tom Renz coming back, Matt Waltz. Who's tomorrow? Tomorrow, is that Robert Barnes and Aaron Day? Yes. And then you have your show. Susan, do you want to talk about that? My show's early tomorrow.

Mine's at 12 o'clock. So I'll be at three. Yes, three o'clock. Yes. And you want to talk about what you're doing? We're going to do a historical and psychic look into Laurel Canyon history. Drea DeMatteo. She lives in a famous house.

Oh, that's right. Drea's coming back. Drea is always good. You don't want to miss her. We're going to talk to all the dead people that used to live in her house. Is she coming into the studio? No, she's in it. She's probably doing it from her haunted home.

Her haunted house, yeah. Excellent. So it's not haunted. I's probably doing it from her haunted home. Her haunted house, yeah. Excellent. So it's not haunted. I don't know if it's haunted, but she's. Emily Hagen is the woman, the writer that I had on previously with Eddie, the psychic. And she's doing a deep dive into the history. And then she's a millennial. She didn't live during those days so that's interesting to her

but we also have this new psychic who I think is pretty cool from New York calling in so excellent guys Caleb thank you we might give Caleb a psychic greeting Caleb anything on your front? or wrap it all up?

no I just wanted to we actually had a lot of viewers on YouTube today strangely enough and on X we're really growing over there it's wild but I was thinking it was strange to me I'm surprised that you're not much more familiar with AI stuff so it was interesting to hear from you

yeah I'm actually surprised because it seemed like the way people's brains works listen my son is into it. I do not use ChatGPT ever. Like literally, I've never used it. And generative AI, I sort of look at it a little, you know, I sort of watch the conversations that are out there,

but I feel like it's all changing so fast. Why should I dig into it while it's sort of evolving? And what I brought up to And what I just brought up to Justine was, I always thought the fantasy, I guess, about AI is that it would have some component of human spontaneity,

at least in a cognitive level. And she's saying no. So if that's true, then I'm not really that interested, frankly. So I don't know, maybe I'm missing the boat here. I think it's hard to know when you're being hoodwinked by AI. If that's true, then I'm not really that interested, frankly. So I don't know. Maybe I'm missing the boat here. I think it's hard to know when you're being hoodwinked by AI. I get hoodwinked by a lot of things and a lot of people all the time.

So yeah, I do. I think it's partially because of how it's being used right now. If you think about it, how a screwdriver is a tool, a screwdriver can be used to poke someone's eye out or it can be used to build a hospital. It can be used for a lot of different things. But it's like the way that generative, from what I understand the way that it works,

is it like, the concept in my head is I think of it as like, you have three professional chefs, professional five-star chefs that each cook a meal like steak, lasagna, and a chocolate cake, right? And then somebody walks into the restaurant and says, I want a pepperoni pizza. So then the manager of the restaurant, who's not even the chef at all, throws all of those chef-made delicious gourmet meals into a blender, mixes that up, and then rearranges all the little molecules of that mush until the meat of the steak is like a pepperoni.

And the lasagna is just its tomato sauce. And the flour of the cake is just the pizza crust. So you do end up with a pizza, but it's also not really a pizza. And you start to notice that, well, wait, why does my pepperoni also kind of look like pieces of steak sometimes? And it's still not even a steak or a lasagna or chocolate cake.

Let's just say you're not selling it to me. Right, exactly. That's what I'm trying to say. I get why artists don't like it. It makes sense because in that case, there's literally nothing that's passing back to those three professional gourmet chefs that

put the original parts together that was just kind of scraped and stolen. But the real creativity is absent, and that's what I feel like is going to be the... Maybe they'll solve it. If we were like 10 years... So if we were like 10 years in the future from now,

and this technology was coming out, and there was a way, I'm not really into crypto at all, but if there was a way that could trace every single piece of art that was created, and then how that piece of art was used and mixed up in AI, so that every artist whose little tiny pixel that they contributed to this AI artwork,

if they all got a few pennies for that, and then that at scale, then it would work. But the way it is now is it's like they literally scraped all of the books that I wrote many years ago that definitely scrape your books. And so you'll be able to find bits and pieces of sentences or it's impossible for a regular person to notice it. But that's literally what it is. It's using a computer to smartly rearrange things that they've scraped from millions of cases. So I'm not against, I think it's really tough to, I don't want

to be one of those people that fights against the progress that I feel like is kind of inevitable. I'm not going to do that. But I also want to have people like Justine that are fighting for, you know, there's got to be people that are there that are saying, hey, this cannot just be running free and wild, guys.

Right, exactly. Also medicine. You don't want AI to run medicine. I remember when I started, I used chat GPT at the beginning and I googled, like, I asked it, what is Dr. Drew's take on the COVID-19,

right? It said, Dr. Drew Pinsky on the COVID-19, right? And said, Dr. Drew Pinsky is very pro-vaccine and he is a blah, blah, blah. And I was like, it was written by somebody who obviously didn't know him or his feelings because it was like, I guess they were only caught up to 2020 and it was 2022. So the AI bots didn't have any information on him. It hallucinates.

It's really not reliable for something like that. But let me give a counterpoint to it. I was going to tell this story in a few days, but I was starting to feel sick about three or four days ago, and I happened to have my wellness company kit that's on hand here. And it was the same illness that I get every six months. So what I did is I went into an AI, I loaded in a list of all the ingredients of my TWC kit, I loaded in all of my current medications and supplements that I

take. And then I asked it, I said, hey, these are my symptoms. What from my TWC kit would be the best thing for me to take? Now, this is stuff I could find in the instruction booklet that comes with the kit, but this was a much faster way of me figuring it out. Anytime I get sick, I punch in my symptoms and it tells me exactly which thing to go to. It's kind of like I built my own miniature AI. Is that what you were thinking?

There's something like that. There's tools. It can be used as a tool. Something like that is going to be the future. On the medicine side, I do believe there will be stuff like that. But you're going to have to be, again, I want to empower patients. And as such, this is part of that process. But I'm not quite sure what the guardrails need to be on that yet.

That's why we need people like Justin. I'm glad you're better. Yeah, I'm just not sure yet, but it's going to be something like that. Something like that is going to be the future because look, medicine is such a disaster right now that we have to do something. And much why she's ringing the bell on the disaster in her industry,

and she's very positive as something, some creative process will come out of it. I kind of feel the same way about medicine because you just have to solve these things. Last thing. Keep in mind, though, that all of the information that the AI was feeding back to me came from instructions that was in the TWC booklet and medications

that are already supplements already prescribed. So it's not like it's inventing it. It's finding this stuff, but it relies on human knowledge like you and the other doctors to actually put the information for the source. Does it take it off the internet or did somebody put it in the...

I created my own chat GPT version. Where's the GWC kit instructions? How does AI get their hands on that? I put it in. I manually loaded it, all the instructions in first, and then I had it basically sort through all of that so I wouldn't have to read through the whole booklet each time it would tell me well this or this and

then yeah in any contraindications with my current meds and stuff like that now that's not you know medical advice obviously but it's an interesting way to use a tool now i'm that's smarter than we thought oh that's a really smart way to do it now i'm in now i'm like oh no that's a creative way if i just gone to if i just gone to chat gT and asked my symptoms, that wouldn't be enough. You have to go with the actual expert stuff, plug that in, and then go. So it still needs humans. I have to go. Our friends from Men's Health are here, and I've got to.

He's going to be a superstar. Yeah, right. Men's Health. And hang on here. Let me make sure. Giving him a plug. That's the idea. Okay.

So we will get going here. You have all the shows coming up tomorrow at 3 Pacific. Susan on Thursday at noon. Me. No, I'm coming in tomorrow at noon. Oh, tomorrow your show's at noon? Yeah. Oh, a day early.

I'm sorry. Because Eddie is coming in and he can oh i'm glad we i'm glad we brought this up so good we're moving our show and then because my show by the way i did not mention this uh my show on the 12th because i'm speaking to matthias desmond from belgium that will be at 11 a.m right so my show will be at 11 yeah. Susan's will be at noon tomorrow. I'll be on again at 3 tomorrow, and we will see you. Which, by the way, I put a Matthias Cariotti lecture into chat GPT. So all this information is out in the universe now. Great.

Thank you so much. We'll see you tomorrow at noon and then 3 o'clock. See you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here.

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