Ask Dr. Drew - Larry Elder: Gavin Newsom Even Slicker Than Zohran Mamdani, Warns Former Presidential Candidate + Dr. Todd Rose on AI Bots Rewiring Gen-Z To Follow The Mob – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 551

Episode Date: November 8, 2025

“Gavin Newsom is slicker than Barack Obama or Zohran Mamdani. He lies without effort or shame,” Larry Elder warns. “The man is dangerous—and should not be underestimated.” In 2021, the former presidential candidate was infamously labeled “the black face of white supremacy” by the Erika D. Smith of the LA Times, in response to his rejection of the Democrat party, mocking of indoor mask-wearers, and citing crime statistics. “I believe that many policies that have been implemented by the left, often with the best of intentions, have a disproportionately negative effect on Black America,” Elder told Tavis Smiley in a radio interview. Larry Elder – known as the “Sage From South Central” is an American conservative political commentator, talk radio host, and former attorney. He hosts The Larry Elder Show, now on YouTube and the Salem Podcast Network. A former presidential candidate, he is the author of several books including As Goes California: My Mission to Rescue the Golden State and Save the Nation. Follow at https://x.com/larryelder Dr. Todd Rose is the co-founder and CEO of the think tank Populace and a former professor at the Harvard Graduate School of Education, where he founded the Laboratory for the Science of Individuality. He is the author of Collective Illusions and multiple other books. Follow at https://x.com/ltoddrose 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/sponsors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • VSHREDMD – Formulated by Dr. Drew: The Science of Cellular Health + World-Class Training Programs, Premium Content, and 1-1 Training with Certified V Shred Coaches! More at https://drdrew.com/vshredmd • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and Susan Pinsky (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/firstladyoflov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠e⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer & Booking • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠ Hosted By • Dr. Drew Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/drdrew⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And yet I have lived with that for the last, God knows how many years, that was six years ago. Newsom, 20 years ago, said this was going to be his number one problem, although he assessed homelessness to be the mother of three who lost her job and husband left him. He has this fantasy about that. I'm going to play you a tape about that later. We were talking to the great Larry Elder. He was a political commentator, talk show host, attorney, candidate for governor and president. And when he ran for president, he became, according to Erica Smith, I think her name was. the black face of white supremacy.

And he created Dave Rubin. I'll tell you about that after a few moments. Todd Rose is the co-founder and CEO of the think tank populace, a former professor at Harvard Graduate School of Education. His book is my mission. Wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry. Oh, that's Larry's book, which I'll talk about in a minute. Collective illusions, conformity, complicity, and the science of why we make bad decisions.

Back with great guests after this. Our laws, as it pertain to substances, are draconian and bizarre. The psychopaths start this, he was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin, ridiculous. I'm a doctor for a shit. Where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician.

I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveland all the time, educate adolescents, and to prevent, and to treat. You have trouble. You can't stop, and you want to help stop. I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say.

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Again, that is Dr. Drew.com slash v shred MD. All right, my friend Larry Elders joins me. We've shared many microphones and cameras together over the years, and I appreciate you being here, Larry. You can follow him on larryelder.com on ex-Lary Elder. And his book this year, as goes California, my mission to rescue the Golden State and save the nation. Larry, thank you for that.

Thank you for your advocacy. Thank you for running for governor and president. And more, before we get it, there's the great new book. But before we get into that, thank you for Dave Rubin. Dave has told that story a million times. I would love to hear it from your perspective. Well, I had never heard of Dave Rubin. One of my young friends told me that he was a young podcaster, really smart guy, a liberal,

but he's a reasonable liberal, and I recommend that you do his show. And so Dave at the time was doing it out here in California. So I walk in, and he's setting things up. And I said, I hear that you're a liberal. He said, that's right. I say, I hear you're a thoughtful one. He said, that's right. Well, at the end of our show, you won't be one anymore.

He started laughing. And so we started into the interview. and he started talking about how much racism there was in America and I said with all due respect tell me the most racist thing you think is going on right now and he fumbled a little bit

but he said the way the police treat black people and I informed him that there are all sorts of studies that show the police were more hesitant more reluctant to pull the trigger on a black suspect and a white suspect the police kill twice as many whites every year as they kill blacks

they kill more unarmed whites as they kill unarmed blacks the media doesn't care so therefore people don't understand the extent to which this happens And after I gave him a few more fact toys, told him that the number one cause of preventable death for young black men was homicide. The number one cause of preventable death for young white men was accidents, like car accidents or drownings. He began to, I think, rethink his assumption and his credit, by the end of the interview, he said, you know, you've made me think about a lot of things.

It wasn't live. So he could have, as you know, removed all that stuff that embarrassed him because he really didn't have good answers. He didn't do that. the next day, played everything without removing anything, and said, Larry Elder has now caused me to rethink my assumptions. I'm no longer a brain-dead liberal. I'm paraphrasing what he said, but he credits me with causing him to start a journey where he began to rethink some of his left-wing assumptions. So I'm pretty proud of that. In fact, I've seen the footage, and it looks like a machine where a spring just went loose. He's just like, do you, yo-yo-yoing. But tell me about... I did the same thing Dr. Drew with

Charlemagne the God. I was on his show for about an hour. Oh, no, good. It was three against one, so therefore it was a fair fight. The same thing came up, and I told him, far and away, the biggest problem facing the black community is what I call the epidemic of fatherlessness. 70% of black kids today enter the world without a father in the home, married to the mother, that is far and away a bigger problem than the alleged systemic racism that you claim. And then I talked about the debacle of urban education, K through 12, where just to pick one city, You've got Baltimore where there are 13 public high schools where zero percent of the kids do math at the grade level.

Same thing with Chicago, L.A., a bunch of other cities, virtually nobody's talking about that. The Democrats don't, but they're in bed with the teachers' union. So the things that are really hurting black people, which is the demise of the family because of the welfare state, I've always argued that the welfare state incentivized women to marry the government and incentivizes men to abandon their financial and more responsibility. And virtually nobody is talking about that, not Obama, not Kamala Harris, not Sharis, not Sharma. Charlemagne the God, not in any of these so-called black leaders. All they do is talk about racism, racism, racism.

And it's hurting the very people that they purport to care about. Right. So it's about solving problems, right? That's what should be happening. And racism are not racism. Recognizing the problem. First, though, recognizing them. Well, that's the point.

It's maddening. It's, it's posit racism, and then let's work on solving the problems. Exactly. And is it strictly speaking, the government? government that has done this, and why aren't black women pissed? Aren't they angry? The answer to your question is yes. If you look at, say, 1890, 1900, 1910, Thomas Oll and Walter Williams have talked about

this stuff extensively, a black child was slightly more likely to be born to a mom and dad married under one roof than a white kid. You fast forward, it's the welfare state. In 1965, Lyndon Johnson launched the so-called war on poverty, 25% of black kids. kids enter the world without a father in the home married to the mother. Now that number is 75%. If you look at the trend lines, the amount of money they're spending, they parallel the growth in the number of kids entering the world

without a mother and the father married to each other in the home. And within whites, it went from 8% to around 25% today. So it's happened not just to whites and not just to blacks, but also to be Hispanics. It's been a neutron bomb dropped on this country and the left is not going to talk about it because when you do so, they have to look in the mirror and say, oh my goodness, what have I done? regarding why more black women aren't concerned about it if they were aware of it they would be i've been invited only one time to speak before any of the chapters of the nbacp the former chapter head

of the oakland branch was a republican he invited me to speak i waived my fee i flew there i spoke for nothing most of the people there were black females and i said the same thing to them that i'm telling you and i asked you raise your hand if you knew then what you know now would you have had your child at the time i know you love your children but would you have had them at that time under those circumstances and virtually nobody raised her hand because they know that they were incentivized into doing this because the welfare state makes it okay you can afford it it may not be pleasant it may not be cushy but you can afford it back in the day if a woman got pregnant it was a crisis not just a moral crisis it was a financial crisis because somebody had to take care of that

child so you have what were called shotgun weddings i'm not saying we go back to that but that's why you did not find the same kind of proliferation that you did then welfare state comes in makes it affordable for you to have a kid outside of wedlock, gives you food stamps, gives you an apartment, gives you daycare vouchers, transportation vouchers, all sorts of things to make it easier for you to have a child without having a job without having a man in the home. It is not productive. It is counterproductive. There was a study done by the LA Times 2008 where people on welfare were asked, do you believe that welfare is a crutch that leads to dependency or a stepping zone towards independency? Forty-one said crutch, 31% said

stepping stone towards independence. So here you have poor people telling you what is doing to us and nobody is listening. You know, a couple of things occur to me. One is that I really feel like Bill Clinton tried to take this on and did actually a pretty good job of it and then got undermined. But the other thing, and this is the kind of want to get your thoughts on, is as I saw this happening, as I saw it becoming so common, that, that. kids were being born without fathers, I noticed that whenever you brought up the topic of the

importance of families, like the utility of two parents, forget mother and father, forget even specifying gender or anything, just saying two people, kids require a tremendous amount of manpower. And one person is just, you know, and you had Hillary Clinton running around saying, oh, it takes a village, takes a village, humans use villages. But underneath it all, it felt to me like if you said anything about family, you were attacking gay marriage or attacking gay couples somehow. So you couldn't even talk about the topic.

And yet, plenty of gay couples support families. They're happy to have two parents and support this idea. Is that going to change, or am I right? And is that going to change? Well, you are right about the inability to be able to discuss this thing without being attacked.

If you're white and you do it, it's as if you're undermining the heroic job black women are doing, often raising children by themselves. Your wife called him Uncle Tom. And you're quite right about Bill Clinton. He did the Welfare Reform Act in 1996. Welfare fell by 50%.

The economy was good to be sure, but it fell far steeper than even the most optimistic people projected. Why? There were a whole bunch of able-bodied people on the couch. And when welfare reform came in, which for the first time put time limits and what were called family caps, meaning if you had additional children,

you did not get additional money, all of a sudden people got off the couch and went to work. You know, I did a documentary call Uncle Tom. It's an extremely well-received documentary. It's on YouTube. You can see it for free. And I talked about how black families kept moving forward after slavery,

despite the obvious racism, despite Jim Crow. And why? There were basically four reasons. One, it was rare for a kid to be raised without a father in the home, married to the mother. Number two, a strong belief in the values of America, even though those values were not being fairly applied to black people. Number three, a strong belief in Judeo-Christian values.

and finally a strong belief in entrepreneurship. Fast forward, I did a second documentary called Uncle Tom 2 about what Black Lives Matter has done to everything I've just now said. Black Lives Matter has been embraced by Barack Obama. It was founded by self-described trained Marxists. Marx by definition did not believe in capitalism. He was an atheist, also an anti-Semite. So every single thing that caused black people to keep moving forward,

despite horrific racism, is now being undermined by organizations like that that Barack Obama and so-called black leaders have in fact embraced. It is absolutely hideous. Tell me about the book, as California goes. Well, as you know, I ran for a governor in the recall election in 2021. Can I take just a minute here to explain? Uh-oh.

Larry froze for a second. Really smart pundits. You froze for a second there, Larry. Start over again. Sorry. I want to take a minute to explain why the 2021 recall effort failed, because a lot of people, even smart pundits, don't understand what really happened.

In 2003, he was shocking, Larry. I got to tell you something. When that happened, when he was reinstated, I couldn't believe it. I completely lost faith in voters that year. Just that's it. I don't know what to do with the California voter, but go ahead.

Explain it to me. You shouldn't have it because there's one major reason why my recall failed. And it's real simple. In 2003, we called a governor. There were Arnold Schwarzener, was the primary guy to run on the replacement side. The guy named Cruz Mr. Mike, who was a Democrat, he was a lieutenant governor.

He ran against his own boss. Schwarzenegger got 49% of the replacement vote. Elton got 49%. And I did not raise as much money, did not spend as much money, and I'm not an action star. I got the same percentage as did Arnold Schwarzenegger. California has 58 counties, I believe it is. I carried all but one county. The only one I lost was San Francisco.

and I lost that by wait for it, 149 votes. So my campaign was just as successful as Schwarzenegger's words. Why didn't it win? Because in his case, he had a prominent Democrat lieutenant governor on the replacement side. In my case, the former two-term mayor of L.A., Antonio Villargoza, made noises about running. He was talked out of it. There were two articles in the L.A. time that said, if he does this, he will be perceived as a political pariah if he gets in and calls his elder to win. So there was no prominent Democrat on the replacement side.

I got 49%. The second highest person got 9%. He was a Democrat whose name nobody ever heard of because they were smart enough not to put another prominent Democrat on the replacement side to pull votes from the first part of it, which is do you want Gavin Newsom to be recalled? That's what happened. If the Ebergoats had gotten in,

you'd be talking to me from the mansion in Sacramento. That's what happened. That would be nice. Well, let's talk about Newsom. You know, we rolled into this. I know not everyone saw this piece I rolled in with was in 2019. I was going around and taking Emily Campagna through Skid Row and the homeless encampments and talking about impending pandemics and things that were going to happen because of the rodent.

And it's just gone worse and worse. Newsom said 20 years ago this was his number one priority. But to tell me about what you think of him and then maybe give me a little bit of comparison with Mom Dami. because they're very different in their strengths and weaknesses. You know what I mean? They're extremely different in my mind, but you tell me. Well, first of all, let's talk a little bit about homelessness. Your piece that opened up this show, of course, was very, very moving, very profound.

Also, I would add that firefighters will tell you that virtually every single fire set in Los Angeles proper is set by homeless. Not only you have this health hygiene problem, you also have the fire problem. And there are four things that we should do. one, if there's a bed, you shall get up and you shall go into that bed. Number two, if you are mentally ill, you will go to a institution. Number three, if you're on drug, you'll go to rehab. And number four, if you refuse those other three things, you're going to jail. Those are your four options.

Pick one. And if you do that, the problem is- Or move along, or move along, keep moving, you know, go to another state, whatever. And they'll go to beds. You have to ask drug addicts to do something, or they will die. They will just keep using until they die. As long as we're not making one of those four options done, we're going to have this problem. Regarding Gavin Newsom, he is the slickest, smoothest, most conniving, lying politician I have ever seen.

I thought Obama was slick. I thought Mondami was slick. This guy is Obama plus Mondami on steroids. He is the smoothest, most persuasive liar I have ever, ever, ever seen. And that he can run with a straight face when our home prices are twice that have a national average. When people leave California, the number one reason they cite is they cannot afford the price of a home. We have more homelessness here than anybody else. Our crime problem is huge, in part because of this war against the police and solve on crime laws and proposition by 47 that allows you to steal and not have any real repercussions.

We had a proposition that basically repealed it, but he's not funding it, so it's still the same thing. Our schools are near the bottom. Our budget is a disaster. CEO magazine ranks the best state in which to do business. every year in the worst state in which you do business every year. And every year, Texas and Florida rated number one. And every year, California is rated at the bottom. We have the highest unemployment, highest electricity prices,

highest gas prices. And the fact that this guy can run with a straight face shows you the bias of the media, the willingness of the media to look at this guy and ignore everything else I just now told you. California is an absolute disaster. His fingerprints are everywhere. Two-term mayor of San Francisco,

two-term lieutenant governor, and soon a two-term governor, of California. So he has been around a long time and has been part and parcel of all the things I just now mentioned that's happened to our state. Well, I want to show you something that you'll both crack up and be mortified by. This is a video. If you remember, did you ever see the interview that Adam Carolla did with him in his studio on his podcast where he really started challenging him? And Newsom was like just shocked that people were actually asking questions. And because it's Adam asking the questions, people are like, people had a certain

emotional reaction to Adam's aggressiveness in going after Newsom, where they, you know, these days you're not allowed to be mean and you can't make me feel bad and all this kind of stuff. And so people felt bad for Newsom because Adam was so aggressive. So Adam had a brilliant idea.

He said, you know what? I'm going to use AI. And I'm going to have somebody do the interview that's as far away as possible from me. So we selected a female NPR radio host. And then Newsom, via A.I, is going to be Burt Reynolds. So Nuretum is Bert Reynolds. And Adam is, we're calling her Jules. What do you call it? Well, Jules. We'll call her Jules. And we have about a three, two and a half minute video here. It is for your enjoyment for all of you.

Behold everybody. This is an example. This is literally the transformation. transcript timing at all of what the exchange was between Adam and Newsom, except Newsom is Bert Reynolds, and Adam is an NPR radio host. See if the insanity doesn't jump out at you now. Half of African Americans in the state of California, roughly half of Latino families have no access to a checking account or an ATM, things we take for granted. They don't have a checking account. What's wrong with them? Well, because they don't have the reason. to sock those things away. Why do we have them? A lot of different reasons, but roughly half those families don't. Why do Armenians have them? But where they end up is a check cashing place.

But I want to know why those groups? Why do those two groups not have access? Just happens to be that we can talk about... Are they flawed? No, they're hardly flawed, but they're struggling. Genetically flawed? Hardly. Absolutely not. Do Asians have this problem? I mean, a lot of communities have problems. A lot of whites have these problems. So it's not just black and Hispanic? No, but it... Well, why did you bring up black and Hispanic? Because the magnitude is ominous. But why so many of them? It just happens to be just the magnitude... That's the way God planned it? Not at all. Well, what happened to them? There are a lot of issues and communities are struggling. Why are they struggling? A lot of different reasons. Hispanics have been here, blacks have been here longer than we have been here? Well, we can surmise...

What about Asians? They were put in internment camps. Yeah. We, in fact, it all initiated out of San Francisco, the Chinese Exclusion Act came out of progressive San Francisco. So are they at the Czech caching places? A lot of Asians certainly do. Oh, so why don't you include them? Because then the only reason why is the magnitude of the cost. Okay, well, let's stop it here. I will suggest, I think I put it on.

It's just fantastic. It's fantastic, right? That is literally his conversation with Adam. And you see the insanity of what you're, his shucking and jiving and lying and BSing. And he has another, we have another take. we'll put these all online on our ex and look at Adam's X too where he's going oh the face of homelessness is a mother of three and lost your job and the husband left her and it's like no no it's not it's this is the actual interview this is this is like this is 12 years ago he was he was continuing this BS it's really incredible gainfully employed yes they is that what are you playing there Caleb you're playing the actual interview yeah I'm just I'm just trying to show people that this is literally from an actual interview transcript that was just used AI

voices. Yes, that's exactly right. And he's just nonsense. And yet reinstated, people vote for him. Prop 50 is his project. Are we going to have Prop 50 tomorrow? Oh, it's going to pass. And the side that

is the pro side is outspent the other side two to one. But I want to say something a little bit about the AI generated thing that you just now showed me. As I mentioned, I was on Charlemagne the God. And I said, Charlemagne, 50% of homicides in this country are committed by and against black people. The number one cause that I mentioned of homicide for young black men. Number one cause of preventable death for young black men is homicide, almost always at the hands of another young black man. Whereas the number one cause of preventable death for a young white male is accidents, drownings, drug overdoses.

Unless you're prepared to say black people are just genetically inclined to commit more crime, what do you think is causing this? and he did the same thing that Gavin Newsom did, stumbling and fumbling and rumbling. Why don't you talk about the truth? The truth is there's a huge breakdown in the black family. And if you're raised out of father, you're five times we're likely to be poor and commit crime. Nine times we're likely to drop out of school.

And 20 times were like to end up in jail. Let's talk about the real cause. And he didn't want to do that. And that's exactly what Gavin Newsom was doing. Gavin Newsom was sort of pointing out some of the breakdown and some of the social pathology going on, but he has no idea why, didn't want to sound like he was racist and didn't want to get down to the root cause which is the demise of the interior of the nuclear family which the left has caused yeah see i don't understand why black america is not furious with that i mean it's just they should be just mortified especially black women

Well, Drew, they should be. And you look at so-called black leader. Let's take Barack Obama. Barack Obama wrote a book, very good book, First book, Dreams of My Father, all about his angst overnight having been raised with his father. Last time he saw his father, he was 10 years old. In fact, he used to lie to kids in grammar school and tell her that my dad was an African chieftain and he was over there taking care of business.

Jesse Jackson was raised by a single mom who was impregnated by the married man who lived next door. And when Jesse Jackson was raised in South Carolina, this was rare. And he was teased. Jesse ain't got no daddy. Jesse ain't got no daddy. Al Sharpton had a nice middle class life until his father ran off with a younger woman. And then down to the hoodie went. And Louis Farrakhan, his mom had been estranged from her husband, had a boyfriend, took back up briefly with the estranged husband, got pregnant with Lewis, didn't want the boyfriend to know to try to abort him with a coat hanger. My point is, these are four so-called prominent black leaders, all of whom had either no relationship or a bad relationship with their own father. Yet they don't talk about that because that is something they could talk about from a very telling, warm, emotional way and make it clear that this is something that we need to address, but they don't. It's racism, racism, racism, and it's sickening. Well, Mamdami has parents, right? And he's a very different dude. I mean, it looks like to me, he's a committed socialist, Marxist, something. He's a member

of this society. I want to read you this. It's called the Democratic Socialists of America. Dedicated full commitment to decolonialization, deoccupation, demilitarization, of full repatriation of indigenous lands, policies that are essential to ensuring socially just environment of sustainable future, a world free of exploitation and oppression,

leading to the liberation of all people from capitalism and imperialism. The break, he wants America dissolved. And so here we are. So maybe he'll feel differently when he's, in government, I don't know, but what do you say? Mamdami is a fool. Thomas Sow was a Marxist when he was younger. He would get on a bus and go to Harlem and then go through

nights of areas of New York, and he said that's the only thing that seemed to him to make any sense. As he got older and began realizing that this was not the case, he stopped being a Marxist and became a conservative, a conservative, committed free market kind of guy. Did you go through a phase like that yourself? I'm pretty far left myself My mom was a Democrat

And I sided with her I got a little older My dad was a Republican And little by little I became more aligned with my dad Much to my mom's chagrin But I was never a Marxist But you know Lenin

Carl Marx brother came from an affluent family And he This whole theory about Communism It's easy to be in an Ivy Tower Put your feet up When you've grown up in affluence And then come up with some sort of

Coughamemi theory about how the world ought to work. The real world requires competition, hard work, and sacrifice. And through competition, you get lower prices, better quality, and greater innovation. And wait until he tries to start to run some government-run grocery store. Grocer stores have very thin margins. These are people that are competing viciously for your dollar. You think you can just roll in there and have some government bureaucrat run it as well as

as people in the private sector can who stand to lose everything. If they don't compete well, good luck with that. There was one in Kansas City, they tried, and it failed. And I don't know why anybody that old does not see that. As Tom Sowell once said it, socialism has a record so abysmal of failure, only a college professor could embrace it. And his father, by the way, Mondami's as a college professor at Columbia and has the same kind of cockamamie attitude towards the world that his son does.

I mean, they live in a, that's the one actual socialist environment in this country is universities. They're sort of zero gravity environments. Caleb, you have a question for Larry you wanted to ask him? Yeah, I have a quick question. So I have a lot of liberal friends, and they don't even realize how racist they sound when they criticize any non-white person simply because they're conservative or vote for a Republican. And so how should I respond to them? What should I say to them that would shut down that nonsense?

No, the truth, stand your ground. Seriously. One of the things that I think President Trump has done for race relations, the most important thing, I mean, he's closed the borders. Blacks are most harmed economically by illegal. aliens because most of them are unskilled and they compete against blacks for jobs and put down with pressure on wages. Trump is a strong proponent of school choice, of course, and he's doing something about crime. Blacks are victimized by crime in the inner city more than anybody else. The thing

that Donald Trump has done that, in my opinion, is the most profound and important thing on race relations, he's allowed people like you to tell the truth without fear of being called a racist. For Donald Trump to refer to Maxine Waters is low IQ and Jasmine Crockett is low IQ and not fear of being called a racist allows people to say what they really believe about DEI and race-based preferences and affirmative action and people who are simply incompetent like Jasmine Crockett is simply incompetent. You can now say it without the same kind of fear of being called racist. So my advice to you is stand your ground, tell the truth. When you fear and you cower, it sounds to me like you have something to feel guilty about

and the other side then feels they're winning the argument. Stand your ground. Thank you. That's a good answer. So, Larry, I've got a question for you. And I asked a lot of people this question. I've never heard your opinion on it. I find it so, I'm a big fan of Frederick Douglass's writings.

I mean, I just think he's just, he's really one of our most glorious assets. And Europeans recognized that when he was alive. We, I don't know if we're still even doing it where we should be with him yet. But he pointed out, and this is true, that slavery was horrible. and Jim Crow is horrible but the rear true horrors that were perpetrated on African Americans in this country

was in the immediate post-Civil War period where the Democrats came into the South and as Frederick Douglass said it we gave up the lash for the shotgun you couldn't lynch somebody's slave back in the day because that slave owner would kill you for having destroyed his property in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War

lynching was everywhere people were murdering black people all over the place and we don't ever to that was to me that's the most egregious period we ever had it was short and intense i understand it was as long as everything else but it was just breathtaking and freder douges pointed it out why is it too traumatic for us to look at is it too short live why don't we spend more energy thinking about what happened there well freder dougis of course was brilliant he was a slave by the way and ran away and went to bedford Massachusetts and was shocked there were black people that were living better than the wealthiest slave owners in the South. He thought that you had to have slavery in order for

society to prosper. And he was shocked by all of that. People don't realize on the left, gun control was all about the fear that newly freed slaves would get guns and exact revenge on their former masters. Many of these movements that are embraced by the left, including minimum wage, were designed to prevent black people from competing against white people by offering their labor for lower wages. So a lot of these programs on the left that people are promoting were really designed to hurt black people and gun control was one of them. And by the Democrats.

That was a democratic policy. Well, think about it for me, why we don't emphasize that period? Because it was so traumatic. I guarantee that that still gets transmitted through generations. And to me, I don't know that this is true, but it's so horrific. It's so horrific that I think the collective consciousness doesn't want to look at it. So, I don't know. I would say that the group that I feel does the most damage right now in America are white liberals.

And they do it because they believe that they're doing it in order to help you. They do it because they believe they have the best intentions. But the outcome is damaging. The outcome is worse. Other schools. Horrible. As I mentioned before, destroying the nuclear family. Horrible.

minimum wage, horrible, gun control, horrible. These are all problems that are produced, pushed policies, pushed by the liberal media, the white liberal. Malcolm X often talked about the white liberal being a far more vicious enemy than you're blatant racist. The blatant racist, you know where he's coming from. The white liberal does it slyly with alleged good intentions, but the outcome is horrific. So that's the group that I'm most angry at, white liberals. and it has quietly and slowly become white female liberals and people are now talking about and I'm not using this term so please don't accuse me of using it but people are you throwing around this term gyno-fascism what is your take on all that well it's white guilt white people feel understandably guilty about slavery about Jim Crow but you're not helping you're not helping black people by treating them as if they're victims.

We're all responsible for playing the cards to the best of our ability that we're dealt with. You're not responsible for the cards, but you're responsible for picking them up and doing your best with them. That is your moral duty. That is your obligation. And the only way to move forward is through hard work and sacrifice. And the way to leave poverty is real simple. Finish high school. Don't have a kid before you get married.

Don't have a kid before you're 20 years old. Get a job. Keep that job. Don't quit that job until you get another one and avoid the criminal justice. system. And if you do that, you will not be poor. And to tell people anything other than that is to be counterproductive and is to hurt them. Again, I want to go back to your book. What is in the book? What are we going to learn by reading it? Well, the book about California, you'll learn exactly the kinds of things that the Democrat-dominated state has done the last several

decades. The Democrats have supermajorities in the assembly, supermajorities in the state Senate. We haven't had a Republican elected statewide in California in over 20 years, and as a result, we have all these pathologies. This huge gap between the rich and the poor, as I mentioned earlier, highest gas prices, highest electricity prices, poor schools, poor budget, people leaving because they can't afford the price of a home, poor forest management, poor water management, all of which I warned about when I ran for governor. And as a result, we have a state where beautiful natural resources, really smart people, really talented people. I have facetiously a two-step plan to save California, Dr. Drew. Keep the illegal aliens, deport the Democrats. But so far,

no one's taking me up on that. But let's go back quickly to Prop 50, because I'm going to wrap up in a second here but the gerrymandering has been going on forever and i i you know i it's just it to me this this is how you lose democracy as you've screw around with it like this i i just i'm losing faith in voting generally but but but it's been around for a long time and i've heard people sort of add up the score and and if if all the red states do all the gerrymandering there i think the Republicans are going to end up ahead, even if California passes 50. I don't know. But what do you make of it and what is going to happen if the midterms are lost, in your opinion?

Well, you're right. The gerrymandering has been going on for a long time. There's an article in ProPublica, which is a left-wing publication called Obama's gerrymander, about how Obama redesigned his state Senate seat after he lost a primary election against a guy named Bobby Rush. He found out Obama did that young blacks don't much care for him. So he redesigned his district to make it more affluent, more Jewish, more white, and less black and poor. So he has, and because of that,

he was exposed to a lot of wealthy people on whom he relied when he ran for Senate and when he ran for governor. So you could argue that Obama's gerrymander launched his career. Then he has a nerve to come out here in California and cut an ad for Proposition 50, claiming that we need it

in order to save our democracy. Regarding the imbalance, you're right. Here in California, we have 52 house seats. 43 of them are held by Democrats, even though 40% of California voted for Donald Trump. If 50 passes today, and I believe it will, that will be five more Democrat seats.

So there will be 48 out of the 52 that will be held by Democrats. Again, even though 40% of California is Republican, it is an outrage. And I hope that there's a lawsuit arguing that the 14th Amendment, one man, one vote is being violated by all of this. But it's an outrage. If you look at the gerrymanning that's going on in the country, you are right. The Republicans are the ones getting,

getting screwed, and if it were to stop, we'd gain a lot of seats. And it may stop, because right now there's a case before the Supreme Court about the Voting Rights Act, Section 2 of it, that has created all these majority, minority districts based on race. And I believe the Supreme Court may strike it down, in which case some pundits believe that will be 20 more seats that Republicans could win because there'll no longer be these districts that have been designed in order to produce a black or a Hispanic congressperson. So that's probably a bigger thing to watch than even what happens today with Proposition 50. Well, it's going to be, I feel overwhelmed by all of it.

It's a very, it's a very, I don't know, I'm just trying to, I think it causes you just to reflect and take care of your family and take care of your own business and, you know, and not, and feel sort of, I don't know, overwhelmed by the bigger, the bigger movements. It's going to be interesting. Go ahead. About that. I always tell people, I tell my listeners, and yesterday I talked about that at the beginning of my show yesterday, Barbara Bush said something my parents also said to me, what happens in your house is way more important than what happens in the White House.

Yeah, exactly. Still, the end of the government we make every single day, that will determine the quality of our life far more than whether or not Donald Trump maintains his house in the midterms, whether or not there's a Democrat elected president in 2028. What we do with our own individual lives far outweighs any of this stuff. It's interesting and it's important, but not as important. and there's the individual decisions you make on your day-to-day lives. I agree. And to that point, the fact that we allow relationships to rupture over

preoccupations about what's going on in Washington is just a horrible tragedy. We've got to get over that. Larry, what's next for you? Where should we find you? What's coming up? Where do you want us to go? At Larry Elder is my Twitter feed. I wrote a book about a relationship with my father about family because my dad and I did not talk to each other for a long time because I was just misunderstood him. He was a great guy. but I was kind of brained out until I was 25 years old. It was called Dear Father, Dear Son. The paperback is called a lot like me.

I urge people to take a look at it. Check out my documentary's Uncle Tom 1, Uncle Tom 2. In my last book, we've been talking about it's called Ascles, California. My mission rescue the Golden State and Save the Nation. And I do a three to six live show, Monday through Friday, on Salem News Channel.com. Larry, great to see you. Hopefully we'll have another dinner with Dave Rubin one of these days soon.

Sounds good. Thanks, Dr. Drew, for having me. I appreciate it. Here's. All right. Coming up, we're going to talk to Dr. Todd Rose. We are going to talk about really, I'm really interested in this topic of mob, essentially. And he has an interesting approach to it.

His book is Collective Illusions, Conformity, Complicity, and the Science of Why We Make Bad Decisions. You can follow Todd, Todd Rose.com. It is also Todd Rose on X. And he'll be with us after this. The wellness company knows that taking charge of your family's health, care is a top priority and being rationally ready and who knows what the future will hold for us. Now TWC has a service to cover your family's medical needs, including and especially prevention. For just $100 a month, the one wellness elite membership includes two free medical grade nutraceuticals per month,

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Sorry about that little technical glitch in my, where I'm looking right now, but that's the way it goes. As I said, Todd Rose, let me tell you a little more about his background. round. He is CEO, is co-founder and CEO of the think tank populace, a professor at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. And he funded the laboratory for the science of individuality, his co-author, sorry, he's the author of Collective Illusions, Dark Horse and the End of Average. Todd, is Todd Rose on X. Todd, welcome to the program. Hey, thanks for having me.

So I'm just fascinated by this topic generally. So let's just start from 30,000 feet. What is it you're looking at and how do you look at it? So we're really obsessed with understanding the difference between what people say out loud and what they believe in private. And the reason for that is there is a new form

of manipulation and propaganda that the public's not aware of and it's called a collective illusion. And if you mind, let me just explain. It's group think, it's group think, but you're wrong about the group, which is kind of crazy. So in other words, it's a phenomenon

where most people end up going along with ideas they don't privately agree with simply because they incorrectly think most everybody else agrees with it and so what's funny is but that sounds like propaganda that just sounds like plain old propaganda to me it's it's it's so there's a top-down propaganda then a bottom-up acceptance of it is that what's going on here so so in the past that propaganda would be elites you know you might okay we're going to repeat statements we're going to do things your brain starts to fall for it this is a bottom-up form and this is how it works right? It works really well because two things. Yeah, well, but those are good news too. We'll get to that. But it works like this, that, you know, every human being has a conformity bias in some form,

right? We're hardwired to want to be with our groups, not against our groups. But to be with your group, you have to know what your group actually believes. And this is where it gets kind of tricky. Your brain uses a shortcut to estimate what your group believes. This is no kidding. Your brain assumes the loudest voices repeated the most are the majority. Okay. Now, most of the- Where does that bias come from? Where is that a cognitive bias of something?

It's a cognitive bias. It basically is a way to conserve biological energy, right? If your brain was having to run complex computations, the average person my group thinks X, no. Just if people are saying it a lot and they're saying it loudly, it's probably what people think. Here's the problem. When you put that little bias into,

to a social media age, it goes haywire. If you just take X, right, 80% of all the content generated on that platform, they're created by only 10% of the users. And it turns out that 10% not remotely representative of the general public. They are extreme on almost every social issue. But you can see the problem, right? So imagine that 10% of Americans believe something, but you think it's 80%. unless you're willing to go against your group,

you'll just say nothing, you'll self-silence, or you might outright lie to be close to the group. And this is what we see in our data over and over again. Right now, upwards of two-thirds of Americans openly admit that they are self-silencing. They are withholding things they truly believe because they think other people disagree. And it's on really important issues that matter for us as a people.

Tell them about just so they get a frame for how powerful, this mechanism is tell about the ash conformity experiment right one of the most famous like studies on conformity ever right so simple uh back in the 50s you bring in some people into a room sitting around a table and there's like say 10 people well the trick is is only one person's actually in the study everybody else is in on the joke right on the on the trick and what they do is they throw up a a line let's just call it like a six inch line on a screen and then they show you three other lines, one of which is six inches as well. And they say, hey, which one is closer to the real line? Now, it's obvious. It's obvious to anyone with eyes what the right answer is. But what they

found consistently is a large percentage of people, once other people start answering the wrong answer, would just go along with the group because they just don't want to be outside the group. And so that was surprising back then. Today, again, that conformity gets weaponized. and we end up following things that our group doesn't even believe in. And I can give you some concrete examples because my think tank, we have more what's called private opinion data, not what you'll say out loud, but what you really believe. We have more of that on the American public than anybody else.

Let me give you a concrete example of the consequences. Do you remember the defund the police movement back in the day? Yes. Right? Kind of crazy. Let's just be honest. Whatever you think the problem is, getting rid of police was not the answer.

New York's going to elect a mayor that, that believes that? So we had exactly, and we'll get to that in just a second, because there's some collective illusions going on there too. But on that defund the police, so we were actually worked with the Biden administration when Joe Biden was president, because they came to us and said, look, we're seeing this. We really think our people believe this. Publicly, 60% of Democrats said they were in favor of defunding the police. Our private opinion data showed it was nine percent, nine. And yet, because politicians fall for the illusion, they end up implementing. policies in San Francisco, in Seattle, in their places that you don't take my word for it,

those cities themselves have walked back the disaster, which was those policies. Okay, this is just tip of the iceberg. One of the most profound ones for me, right after October 7th, you know, when Hamas attacked Israel, the Harvard Harris poll came out that said, like, something like 60% of Gen Z believed that Hamas was justified. not that they cared about innocent Palestinians but Hamas was justified so I actually got a call

and it got asked to come to I went to Tel Aviv just a few weeks after the attacks because what authorities there had found was that foreign bad actors countries that don't like the United States don't like Israel were actively

using bots to manipulate the perception and they were targeting Gen Z and turns out in private It wasn't 60%. It was nine. It was less than nine. Actually, it's collapsed now. But the point is, we just want to belong and we will go with that crowd. And now with social media, it is dropped dead easy to manipulate what we think young people believe their groups believe. So why do we call, why do you select the word illusion and not delusion or hysterias? Or is it all the same? It's all the same. The delusion had some connotations, but it's all the same. Let me give you an example, though, of why does this matter, right? How does this work? Because it seems like, well, don't fall for it. It's like, well, it's really hard to go against this. I'll give you two concrete things that are going on recently where we've tracked bots from Iran, Russia, and China are the three main players with millions of active bots on our social media platforms right now, all meant to engineer these collect. allusions. So the first was right after Charlie Kirk's assassination, the bots went live and we

work with organizations that track these nonstop. On the left, it amplified the celebration of his assassination to give the impression that lots of people on the left loved it. On the right, it amplified false ideas of civil war to create the perception that this is what our groups believe. More recently, literally right now as we speak, we've seen this effect. The New York Post just came out the data with Mamdani that actually it's very clear that TikTok's being manipulated to suppress Cuomo positive stuff and amplify Mondami. Similarly it was uncovered that on the polymarket there are AI enabled active bets that are amplifying the perception that it's inevitable that he's going to win and it's really powerful because if it looks like it's over then why go vote

you know and you can actually it's called a spiral of silence and it's it's a very good form of manipulation to get people to do things that they wouldn't otherwise do. You know, when I first sort of woke up to what you're describing, it was during COVID, and it's the same thing there, right? Was it any different during all that? I mean, and again, we have now evidence that the government had its finger on the scale over and over again. So they were duplicitous in this whole thing. That's exactly right. And so it was actually amplified during COVID, in part because we were all shut into our homes and we were all on where it's far more easy to manipulate us.

These illusions don't really work when we're having real conversations with our neighbors one to one, right? Or small groups where we can actually talk to each other. But I will tell you, the things, these kind of illusions, we've known about them for about 100 years. It's only since social media

that they just exploded everywhere. And they're affecting how we see one another. They're leading to these false divisions. What's really insane to me is when you look under the hood, not just what we'll say out loud, but what we believe in private, Americans are shockingly similar, shockingly similar. It's just when you ask them, well, what do you think most people think? Oh, nobody else agrees with me. And time after time, it leads to this sense of false polarization, right? Now, just because it's false polarization, listen, it will become true in its consequences, right?

So we have to deal with this. One of the things that I think is really important to keep in mind is while these illusions are destructive, They're actually quite fragile because they're lies. And if we know the right strategy, you can actually dismantle them in a hurry and create social change that really matters. And let me tell you, what you don't do is you don't try to persuade, you don't lecture, because it backfires. And the best example of this, Dr. Drew, is you remember the Sano to Dr.S campaign back in the day? Yes, yes. So small uptick in first-time drug use amongst teens. Well, the government gets worried.

They basically bring in the best ad agencies in the country, and they come up with the campaign that was a resounding success at a marketing level, advertising level. The typical American teen saw three ads a day for six years trying to scare them straight. The problem was the government assumed the reason kids were trying drugs is because they were interested in drugs, but private opinion data showed that wasn't true. They were skeptical about drugs. What they wanted was to fit in. And back then, American teens were under this illusion that most teenagers did drugs.

So you blitz them with a billion dollars of ads trying to scare them straight. What they took from it was, this must be what we're doing, because otherwise, why would adults try to scare us? Right. And no kidding. The research has conclusively shown that that campaign directly increased drug use amongst teenagers. Right. Beautiful. But let's drill at that a little bit, though, because I was a teen. during that whole episode, or at least just before that. And the one thing that's, there's a little wrinkle in your, in your construct that has always

stood out for me, and I can't understand what we were doing or why it happened. But in the 70s, really the post-60s, there was some sort of post-60s phenomenon. And in the 70s, we elevated and idealized sociopaths. They, they, you know, some rock star who was an outcast, who, some, kid who was 14, later to play the guitar, that became our God. And when he started acting out because he was not well, that became the standard behavior that we all were following. What was that? Why did we do that? I can't figure it out. I'm glad you brought this up. I'm glad, because it's pretty wild. So even as we have a conformity bias, the thing that human beings desire

besides deep connection is to be authentic, right, to not have to self-silence. And so what's funny is By the way, I'm going to stop you because that was a big theme, a big theme and not to be phony. That's right. That the Don Draper's of the world to us, the funny hair and the horrible I'm glad, they looked so affected and phony. We wanted to be real, man. Exactly. Now, it's hard to know when someone's authentic. One of the easiest ways to tell is when you're acting clearly against the status quo, right?

So the more out there outlandish you are, they're like, dude, this guy is authentic. And we gravitate towards it. We start imitating it. And it leads us down like a Pied Piper down a dead end. Yeah. Well, we spent several decades for doing that. I mean, I don't know about the dead end. A couple of generations went through it.

But it is morphed into something else now. And again, I'm still trying to understand it. and the fact that it is being manipulated and that social media is amplifying it so much. Well, you said there was, I'm mortified by all this. You said there's good news in here. So I'm ready for some of that. Here's the thing.

History shows us when the problem's a collective illusion, if you get the right strategy, right, which is more social proof, show, don't tell. These illusions shatter and change happens in a hurry. Let me give you the, what I think is the best historical example of this. Do you remember the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia? it was literally it's unique it's unique it's in the 80s unique for this reason it's the only time

that we know that a communist authoritarian regime was overthrown without anybody losing their life not a single shot fired around that same time you had bloody suppression in hungry and other places by the same kind of regimes here's what was amazing about it the guy that led it was a guy named Voslav Havel. He wasn't, at the time a politician, he wasn't, had no military experience. He was a poet and a playwright. And what he said is he had written this satire of communism called the Garden Party. And it was so subtle that even the censors didn't know they were being made fun of. So he puts it on. Oh, interesting. It becomes a runaway hit, like the Hamilton of its time, sold out every night. Voslav sits there and watches the audience every night. And he said,

they laughed at all the right parts. They laughed at things that you wouldn't find funny if you truly believed in communism. So he realizes the problem is it's this illusion. It's that we believe that we believe in communism. And by the way, he wrote a manifesto about this and it's freely available online. It's worth reading.

It's like 80 pages. It's called The Power of the Powerless. It is unbelievable. It sounds like he's writing to us today. But here's what he realizes. I'm getting it right now. Right this minute. Tell me more. It's so cool.

And he said, okay, well then if this is a real problem, then the answer isn't force. It's actually authenticity and personal responsibility. He said, people are so used to living in the lie that we have to make them comfortable living in truth again. And what he did, he set up these things called small works. He said, look, no one's going to topple the government tomorrow. Let's get them back speaking the truth to each other on small things, literally like hobbies. and other stuff. And he built that up all over the country. He was mocked mercilessly. Like, are you kidding me? They have all the guns. You're going to defeat communism with authenticity.

But here's what's amazing. Nobody saw the revolution coming. The CIA missed it. The KGB completely missed it. Even Havel, okay? So just a few months before the student protest that would lead to the overthrow of the government, again, with no one dying, Hobble's interviewed in an international magazine. And he trying to rally the troops he's like look revolutions take time you know we got to stick with it he said he said i probably won't even be alive to see the end of the revolution but i'm all in three months later he was the first democratically elected president of a free Czechoslovakia yeah i remember so yeah when i think about this they still talk about him quite quite glowingly but wasn't but wasn't there already sort of these these waves of that kind of thing come around internationally every so often like

1850s there were all the workers rebellions and then there was the all the communists that came up and in as i recall this history because i was alive during it poland had just been through the glass nose thing or whatever it was they had their their solidarity movement and didn't that sort of give permission to to trexlovakia in part right although it didn't end as well as it should and the same thing with hungary hungry was a counter example right lots of people were were massacred and And so it was, rather than the direct confrontation, it's getting people back to being willing to be authentic and just being honest with each other. The illusion had nowhere to go. And they realized there was just no support for the regime.

And again, it's worth reading Power of the Power, you'll love it. But I say this, look, if a poet can overthrow communism, I just think what we can do is Americans right now. Because I promise you, when you get past the lies in public and you look under the hood about who we are, we're still the people. you think we are. It's remarkable how similar we are. It just doesn't feel like that. And again, that doesn't mean we can just sit back and relax because illusions that aren't shattered tend to become private opinion over time, right? It just, they seep in and we just start to believe it. So this is, when I think about this, like the way forward here, it is as simple, even though it's not easy. Like, we're losing that commitment to things like free speech and tolerance of

different views. That's hard to come by these days. But it is the most important protector we have to protect us against these illusions. And at the end of the day, if we care about this country, we care about the American experiment, we care about each other, we got to do two things. We got to have the moral courage to be honest, respectfully, with each other. And the civic courage to make it safe for other people to do the same thing. Well, again, you're just saying, you know, defend freedom, to friend the principles upon which the country was founded, which is crazy that we're here, but here we are. But here we are.

But guess what? Like we've been in these kind of places before, not quite this extreme. And we can rally. Like this, like I said, we have more private opinion data on the American public than anyone. And when I look at that data, I feel incredibly confident about who we are. And if we just can get back to that idea, the Voslav Havel idea, we're used to living in the lie because of cancel, because of, you know, whatever, the social media.

It's all garbage. It's a lie. This is not even what your group wants you to do. So when you conform to that lie, you hurt yourself and you destroy the very group that you care about. Well, can I have your number on speed dial when I get disenchanted and worried and overwhelm? But my last question is, my last question is this. there's a book called True Believers.

There's various incarnations of books like that. What do we do with the true believers? Because I feel like I deal with them a lot. Yeah. And there are true believers, right? Like any crazy idea is going to have 5, 10% of people that are going to agree with it. What's important for societies, history has shown us this, is it's not that small group of true believers.

It's when that spreads almost social contagion-like to the people who don't really believe but just want to belong. it's only when those folks start to lie and be part of it that societies come undone and so i'm not worried about the true believers like say all the things you want as long as we can say what we believe it's protecting this thing do not let these illusions form don't give them anywhere to hide yeah i mean that's what happened during covid right there was uh there was the there was the and and the way uh was it marked oh no it's um oh shoot some of you guys are going to tell me the name of the psychiatrist that came up with the notion about mass formation.

He was saying that maybe 10%, yeah, Desmond, Mattias Desmond, that maybe 10, 15% of people, well, 20% of people are true believers, 70% are just want to get along when we left alone. 10% are going, hey, what the hell is going on here? What's going on? And that, and he was saying that 10% has got to really stand firm and watch over the 70%. They do.

And it's just a battle for what we believe that we believe as a people. And once you realize that, and once you know, like the takeaway from this is you cannot trust your brain to tell you what your group thinks anymore. And so where does that leave us? Back to where we should have been. Think for yourself. Be respectful, but do not hide your opinions. Because the truth is, even though you think most people disagree with you, you're actually probably on the side of the majority anyway. And your silence only creates the space for this carnival barkers, this vocal fringe to end up masquerade.

rating as the majority and really, really bad things happen when that happens. Todd, I said I'm fascinated by all this. You did not disappoint me. Where should people go to learn more or to follow you? You can download any of our research on populace.org or you can follow me. It's L. Todd Rose on any social media platforms. L. Todd Rose. Yeah. Do you, let me see if I'm following you on X. Do you push out stuff on X, like when you have new ideas and publication. Yeah, we will. I'll be honest, given what I know about how collect illusions form,

I'm always, every time I go on social media, I'm like, okay, here we go. So, but yeah, we will push stuff out on. You mean, I'm following you now. It's a fun house of mirrors. Yeah, but we need you. That's where we're going to be doing this fight, isn't it? Right. Or is it a waste of time there?

I'll be more active and I'll call it my Dr. Drew moment. How's that? Wonderful. I follow you. tag me and everything so I can keep up. Thank you so much. I appreciate being here. Thank you. Well done. All right. Very fun today. We got a good week coming up. Some salty crackers on Thursday. We're going to be early at noon. Tomorrow we have Dr. Redfield. He has a new book out. We have a couple of other guests coming as well.

And I'll tell you what, Dr. Redfield has fascinated me. He's been consistently, I feel like he's been honest since the beginning, but he's getting louder and his sort of like a cloud forming into a certain, you know, coalescence. And he's clearer about the things he's been saying sort of, he's been kind of musing about for a while. Now he's like, coming in hard, I think. John Solomon, Paul Morrow is going to give us an update on what's going on in New York and maybe the follow from Prop 50. RFK the third coming in and Dr. Andrea Wagner coming in as well, Salty Cracker, Miss Pat. Finally, we got her set up for the 12th.

Floyd Carmichael talked about the capture of the psychology training and Dr. Joseph Wittaring, Darren, coming back. Got a lot of coming up this month. We have a little time. You see it's spreading across the end of December because I have some commitments in there that we have to spread things out across. But we will be here for the least 10 episodes

in the month of November so you can count on us. We do appreciate you being here. And I hope the show is as enjoyable to you as it is to be a part of it. I'm going to look quickly at your car comments on the re-stream and the, when will I be on Gutfeld? Somebody's name, I can't quite see,

Alley. Thursday. I'm in New York right now, so I'll be on Gutfeld on Thursday. Ben, Will Kane tomorrow. Here's somebody saying, Dr. Todd needs to be exposed to today's younger generation. Yes, yes, they're the ones that seem to be very taken by this

illusional system. And you guys appreciated Todd, so maybe we should bring him back soon. Emily, make note of that. there's a lot of good buzz around Todd and what he has to offer. Well, it's also weird, because this is exactly what I thought was going on. And I've been telling this to my friends for what, probably eight years now, that around the time of right before 2020, around 2016,

I started to notice a pattern of bots on, especially on X and on Facebook, that we're saying the most ridiculous things that no conservative would ever say, like actual full-on racism, and it looked like it was some foreign entity trying to prompt a civil war or a race war. And I tried to tell my friends, things are not anywhere near as bad as what all of these accounts seem to be claiming online. Like, that's not my experience at all with people in the real world. And yet a lot of my friends, especially the chronically online ones and the ones who, you know, got locked down during 2020 during the pandemic, they went way off into the deep end thinking that social media reflects real life. and not even thinking that they're being influenced by bots.

You have to imagine it does not take much money for some independent person just to make money to go and build a network of five or ten bots and run those all day and make money off of it. But just imagine the power that a state actor has with the budget of a state to go in and start running an entire network of sock puppet accounts and start manipulating American citizens who just aren't aware that this is going on. Well, I think we can't do anything about that, But what we can do is, as he's suggesting, stand up and speak our mind and to really not resist.

But I worry about the people that are taken in by these systems, these persuaders. We need to be, I guess he's saying it the same way. We need to be empathic as we confront and try to get the truth out and to really move towards the truth always and to defend it and to have the freedom to speak it. So here we are. interesting show today appreciate larry belder being here appreciate todd rose appreciate you all joining me as well and we will see you tomorrow at four o'clock eastern because caleb does the maha conference we'll be at four o'clock which is seven o'clock eastern we will see you then tomorrow ask dr drew is produced by caleb nation and susan pinsky emily barh is our content producer as a

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