Ask Dr. Drew - Leaked Lockdown Files: Michael P Senger Exposes How China Shut Down the World in 2020 – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 194

Episode Date: March 18, 2023

A leaked archive of 100,000+ messages between UK officials in 2020 exposes tactics to terrify citizens into lockdowns, using “fear & guilt” to force compliance. Why did health leaders follow China’s policies even though studies didn’t support nationwide lockdowns? Michael P Senger is an attorney based in San Francisco, CA, and the author of Snake Oil: How Xi Jinping Shut Down the World. He has been researching the influence of the Chinese Communist Party on the world’s response to COVID-19 since March 2020. Read Michael’s book at Amazon.com. Follow Michael P Senger at michaelpsenger.substack.com 「 SPONSORED BY 」 • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get 10% off with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. Hundreds of millions of people have received a COVID-19 vaccine, and serious adverse reactions are uncommon. Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician and Dr. Kelly Victory is a board-certified emergency specialist. Portions of this program will examine countervailing views on important medical issues. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 GEAR PROVIDED BY 」 • BLUE MICS - Find your best sound at https://drdrew.com/blue • ELGATO - See how Elgato's lights transformed Dr. Drew's set: https://drdrew.com/sponsors/elgato/ 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today should be a very interesting show. We have Michael P. Singer. He is the author of Snake Oil Science, How Xi Jinping Shut Down the World. He's got more information since he wrote that book. You can follow him now on Twitter, reinstated at Michael P. Singer, S-E-N-G-E-R. And his substack is michaelsinger.substack.com. He has got a lot to tell us. This should be a very interesting conversation.

Susan has, Michael's a low-key guy, but he got Susan quite worked up after her last interview. I don't think you've ever quite been the same, Susan, matter of fact. He's also been reporting on 100,000 messages between UK officials in 2020 and the techniques they were using to terrify. I can't, these words can barely come out of my mouth. To terrify the citizens, to cow them into submission, to cooperate with their interventions. Let's get right to it.

Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that?

I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals, but just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time, educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. We'll be right back. you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM

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If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. As always, we are watching your restream chat, and of course on Rumble with the Rumble Rants,

and we have some of our usual suspects over there, and Twitter spaces as well. I'm not sure if we'll have time for calls today. Hopefully, we'll have a minute or so to let you talk to Michael. As I said, Michael's an attorney. He's in San Francisco, and he wrote a book that Susan read amongst other things, his interview as well, which got Susan, I think, I don't think you've been quite right ever since then. Nope. And she's looking very forward to this, very much forward to this interview. Before we get into a reminder, tomorrow we have Dr.

William Mackis here. Tuesday, I believe Thursday, we have, Caleb, help me with this, the UK reproductive endocrinologist that's been in Twitter quite a bit, a little bit of heat lately. I want to give her a chance to sort of talk to us about her findings. I'm blanking on her name right off the top of my head. And Gad Saad on next Tuesday and next Wednesday, Sasha Lat latapova caleb do you are you know what i'm talking about i'm trying to pull i'm trying to find it that's the one name i don't have on my list right now it was probably added over the weekend gosh darn it i'm sorry i brought it up but uh i'm gonna tell you in one second i hope it's on thursday i'm sorry to do this to everybody. No, I went to the wrong place.

So I'm going to give up. But it's this Thursday. It's actually day after tomorrow. That's the coming schedule right there. Gosh darn it. Give me one second. There it is. Her name is Dr. Vicki Male.

I'm not sure how you pronounce it. Dr. Vicki Male, senior lecturer in reproductive immunology. And she has some very strong opinions about vaccination during pregnancy. And she's one of the few people that has agreed to come on in here and give us her opinion, which I'm delighted to hear. She was suggested by a Twitter follower when we were saying, you know, come on the show. We were trying to get people to come in here. And she's apparently the real deal. She seemed like a very good scientist.

But what I'm interested in is the literature she quoted was over-the-top positive. And I'm used to medical literature being a little more mixed. And so I sent her some other articles. I'd like it to be positive. Well, sure. And so I said, please respond to this stuff, and we'll talk about it. So it should be a really interesting positive. Well, sure. And so I said, please respond to this stuff, and we'll talk about it.

So it should be a really interesting conversation. Something really quick. When you say that my life was changed from this book, you also have, since we last spoke to Michael, you have changed so many of your opinions about what's going on. That's true. And some of that is because of this book. Well, let's bring Michael P. Singer in right now. Michael, welcome.

Thank you so much, Drew. Thank you for having me. Great to be back. So welcome to our show. Welcome back to Twitter. I'm glad you're there. So let's start with how I've changed. I think that's an interesting place to start. I was very naive. I wouldn't say I was insulated or dumb about what's going on in China, but I was naive, I'd say. And since I last spoke with you, I've talked to a lot of people who were silenced on Twitter and other places like yourself. And one of the things, there were many headlines emerged from those conversations, but two big ones were, A, a lot of the pandemic response was made up out of whole cloth. People in a room just going, six feet, that's it, it'll be six feet, come on, let's just do that, and then foisted on the public and then

on the world, which is the part that I have trouble getting my head around. But the other big headline was that many of their decisions came directly from their Chinese counterparts. Things like lockdown, our scientists were hoodwinked or something into believing that lockdown was just sayeth the Lord, the one and only solution to COVID, SARS-CoV-2. Tell me what you know about that piece of the story. That's right. And that's really kind of the focus of my work my work, the forensic aspect of where these policies came from. Really getting people to focus especially on the very beginning of this entire

story, thinking back to those initial lockdowns, which were the strictest and frankly did the most damage back in early 2020, because that's really where this entire narrative began. And that's really where China's biggest influence was, is in the very beginning, just setting that entire narrative that this virus was going to be treated with this unprecedented response that just has absolutely no precedent in the modern Western world. I mean, you think back to those initial days, just your initial impressions, how normal everything was in January and February, except for the news coming out of China about that brutal lockdown that was going on in Wuhan. Then suddenly, just like that, liberal democracy

just grinds to a stop. Just across the world, one country after another, it really just kind of imports this policy of lockdown that had absolutely no precedent in the modern Western world. It was not contained in any country's pandemic plan. They had some references to voluntary social distancing measures they might take. And that actually, that entire science of social distancing, it turns out the story of the origin of that science falls apart entirely as well. So that was within Western countries pandemic plans,

but it's kind of a shady vein of pseudoscience. And that's the story all of a sudden, the official story completely falls apart there as well. So the very beginning of how this all began is just, the more you look at it, the closer you look at it, the more frightening it becomes because everything we've been told about those initial policies just falls apart. You know, we were told that it was just this, oh, it just happened. Everybody just decided to shut down. Of course, that's always kind of nonsensical when you actually stop and think about it,

because a decision that big does not just happen. There's entire bureaucratic forces for everything that was to come. I mean, everything that happened after that, as you were saying, a lot of it was just a giant mess. They were coming up with these rules out of whole cloth. You know, one place, the rules would be directly contradictory to another. You know, he had the arrows all over the floor. You had the plexiglass everywhere. It was all kind of silly and stupid, but it was all because of lockdowns that convinced so much of the population,

and leaders especially, that there was a super virus out there. Because so psychologically powerful and so much of the public, suddenly there's this emergency announcement that we have to have these strict lockdowns, that this is going to do a lot of harm. This is going to destroy millions of lives. it's going to ruin half the small businesses

out across the country, didn't even recover, ruin everybody's mental health, but the super virus is so important that we have to do it. Sadly, once they make that announcement, people trust their government and they support it because they think like, oh, it's a big emergency, the government wouldn't be doing this unless there was some real super virus out there and there was a real health emergency. So they support this policy that does all this damage. But then we realize later down the road when you study it, you realize this virus, everything we were told about the origin of it, we were told that it was a super virus, that everybody

was falling over to their deaths in Wuhan. We got all the scary videos out of Wuhan. And somehow it jumped over to Italy and it's killing people there. And it jumps over to New York City. It's kind of this Hollywood theatrical outbreak story that falls apart entirely. Of course, now we have mountains of scientific evidence. It's actually circulating all over the world by fall of 2019. I mean, it was just everywhere. So this lockdown just had absolutely no moral or scientific or intellectual

justification when we actually go back and look at it. But that was so powerful because it got so much of the population to endorse this policy. It caused so much devastation for absolutely nothing. At that point, people cannot psychologically turn back. They have to believe that there's this super virus that uh you know has just been wrapping just for years i have to tell you i uh yeah i have to tell you i was in an i was doing a news local news broadcast for the first year of covid and one of the news directors came up to me like six months into the pandemic and went this is an extinction event for the human being right this where the humans will be extinct after this i was like i was like what where in the world did you get that idea my god my god what have we done to people my god yeah uh they just

have zero judgment about what this was but okay so, so now let's go back to those early days. As I recall, it was first a – first there was the closure of flights from China, right? And China had already ended domestic flights. Strangely, they were allowing international flights, which is a little bit of a hint of what was maybe going on there but okay it turns out that story was actually a bit of propaganda as well that uh that story kind of tells us they were doing they were doing strange things and this is something that uh it trips up China Hawks as well it trips up some intelligent people all over the world because no regime really in the past has done this the

Chinese Communist Party is using negative propaganda. They know that their reputation around the world is terrible, and that it'll never improve. From what I've seen, they found that the best way to convince the world of facts that they want people to believe is to simply make themselves look bad. You get the story about how they canceled direct domestic flights, even while they're letting people fly all over the world and spread this virus around everywhere, it's just nonsense. That story breaks down as well. And you get the stories about how,

oh, these poor Wuhan residents are just falling to the deaths in the streets, not getting the care they need. That's just a lie as well. But it convinces everybody that now they got the scary virus and China let it spread everywhere and all, shame on the Chinese Communist Party for doing that. But it's just nonsense. It was already everywhere around the world by fall 2019.

Is that maybe not the Chinese? I mean, I guess you must have some evidence that Chinese, the CCP are the one propagating these stories. But isn't it possible that it's some anti-chinese propaganda equally absolutely yeah and so I mean the store the source of it gets completely mixed up there because you have some of that coming from folks who are really you know uh really anti-chinese communist party genuinely hawkish about China you know genuine resistance fighters and they're like you know oh just anything that you know I really want to get these guys and so they're generating the stuff as well and you know we have no idea and how much of those is controlled opposition because you know the chinese communist party has controlled

opposition forces all over the world so we are going back to a lot of these stories we have absolutely no idea you know to this day was this genuinely somebody who's just fudging facts a little bit because they really don't like china or was it the johnny's communist party using their controlled opposition forces to convince people of these things i mean uh weird yeah i'm gonna tell you more about that in a minute so i i want to take a little bit more time at the beginning of the pandemic again so we our federal government has a travel ban and then a two weeks to flatten the curve, right? That's sort of our policy. Two weeks, flatten the curve, everyone cooperate, stay home for a little while. Then as my memory serves me, we have sort of unclear sort of messaging coming out of the White House,

except Donald Trump is saying, calm down, everybody. It's going to be fine. Don't worry about it so much. I'm hearing good things about this hydroxychloroquine. I'm hearing a good thing about light being shat down people's lungs. And as soon as he said that, my state locked down. There was a and that didn't end for two years. So how much was Trump derangement syndrome or whatever that is, where people do the opposite of whatever his White House was saying. 05.05.190 So here in the United States, there was definitely a lot of that. And I mean, there's just no question, you know, blue states like here in California embrace more of this than San Diego, embrace more of the mandates, more lockdowns.

But on the other hand, I think that idea that it was just all Trump derangement system, Trump derangement syndrome, Trump derangement syndrome, so to say, gets exaggerated a bit in the United States. Because the truth is that before lockdowns came here, a lot of Europe was already locked down from Italy and quickly France and Germany followed and then the United Kingdom shortly after that and every country in Europe. Most of that was before it came to the United States. So this was not just because Trump was in office, liberals just destroying their own

states, although there was some of that. But as you were saying, the best ending was odd. I think Trump's instincts, for the most part, were generally correct. I mean, he was just saying what the data actually showed. It was not really, it was a badan or respiratory virus bad worse than usual but there was nothing really to be that concerned about and the article is even coming from let me stop you yeah let me talk it it let's let's say the i think truth is actually somewhere between those two places because it's pretty nasty fire it does a lot of damage to a lot of people

especially of course if you're older. But, oh, shoot, I lost my train of thought. Oh, take me to never induce panic because panic always makes things worse. They did the exact opposite. It seemed like a conscious induction of panic to, in their own mind, gain control or something. When did that enter the public health lexicon and where'd that come from? That's right. When did that enter the public health lexicon and where'd that come from? That's right. And that remains one of the big mysteries of the story is where did that order come from?

And it really, it came from the very beginning. You know, as soon as they made this decision to lock down in March, 2020, that decision to lock down was accompanied by this vast propaganda campaign, you know campaign all over the Western world. You got all these catchy slogans, you know, follow the science, flatten the curve, we're all in this together. Of course, every single one of these is an outright lie.

Another one was, wait two weeks, 15 days to soothe the breath. Of course, it was not two weeks. It did not actually flatten the curve. You know, it was not just staying home. It was a complete suspension of everyone's rights. And, of course, it was the exact opposite of real science. So that decision to terrify the public, and this is accompanied by a vast federally sponsored propaganda campaign, and, you know, disclosures about that have come out within the United Kingdom and within Canada. And it goes to show that it's really all the Five Eyes nations, really the entire developed

world was engaging in this domestic propaganda. And certain MPs in the UK and certain military officials in Canada came out and said that they didn't feel good about that decision that was not the right thing to do. But why did they do it? Where did that order come from? I mean, that's still one of the big mysteries here is that even for as much as I've researched this, and that's why I think it's so important to get more folks interested in the subject matter, because we still don't have an official explanation as to how these decisions were made. We get some of these little limited hangouts, these little stories that don't actually make sense about the history of social distancing, which have very little to do with the lockdowns,

which were actually enacted. We have another story about how, oh, you've got that propaganda story about how St. Louis shut down parades in 1918 and then they saved so many lives by shutting down parades which you know has nothing to do with what the actual lockdowns the you know shut down the entire world in 2020 um we still have no real official explanation as to how these decisions were made and who was behind it and you really kind of have to piece together for yourself i mean people kind of make up the story for themselves but you know when you look into the actual characters behind this, I mean, they had shady connections to China. Deborah Birx, the former White House coronavirus response coordinator, who actually was more responsible for lockdowns across America

than Anthony Fauci. Most people don't realize that, but she was kind of orchestrating the entire thing. And you really had to kind of read her book and read other firsthand accounts to realize that. But I mean, she says in her book right there that she lied about 15 days to slow the spread. When she said that, at the time that she advised that policy, she knew it was a lie

and she knew it was always going to be much, much longer than that. It was just an excuse to get everybody to buy into the policy. And then it's just unbelievable that she would make that kind of admission in her own book about the response. But I mean, that's how flagrant the lies were. And they were actually policies. But I will tell you what I've noticed. I don't know how this fits into your thinking exactly, but I've noticed whenever there are these medical interventions that end up harming millions of people, look at the opioid crisis, look at psychosurgeries, lobotomies, look at the opioid crisis at the turn of the 20th century. There's many examples of these through medicine. At the core, there's always a group, a small group of physicians who evangelize for the topic, evangelize for their intervention, for their way of looking at the world.

And they, by hook or crook, gain access to the regulatory organizations, the professional organizations, the political organizations, and convince those organizations to smack down everybody else. I mean, just look at the, it's line and verse like the opioid crisis. It's the exact same phenomenon that happened there. You know, you had like five so-called pain doctors who convinced the VA, the Joint Commission, local medical boards, and then it sort of took off from there. Pain is the fifth vital sign. Pain controls what the patient says it is. It's just on and on and on. And all the other sheep followed too. And I was complaining about it at the time like crazy and was crushed by four or five different regulatory organizations for daring to speak up about this, that I was somebody, I was a cruel person who was interested in humans suffering, that I wanted my patients to suffer.

And again, you talk about propaganda and twisting things, you know, there it was. And it just feels like the same thing again here, but on an international scale. What's your theory? What do you imagine happened? absolutely i mean there's no doubt that there were those evangelists i mean some of these characters had been there was this growing field in the lead up to 2020 of this field of pandemic planning this idea that we had to be prepared for another pandemic um like the one that supposedly happened and you know the spanish flu in 1918 and some other historical damage like that. The origins, as I was saying, with the origins of social distancing are shady, and you can find some bizarre influence of China there as well. The official story of how this all began doesn't

really add up. But in any event, there's an entire field of pandemic planning, which a lot of big philanthropists like Bill Gates were heavily involved in. They would do these pandemic simulations every year about how they were going to be so prepared for the next big pandemic. They're all excited about the next big pandemic. And the most notorious of these simulations was Event 201. It's a simulation of a coronavirus pandemic that takes place just like, it was, I think, two months before the revelation of the actual coronavirus and the, you know, pandemic that led to that, that we experienced in 2020.

And all these high level officials from all over the world, you had our highest intelligence official in the entire Western world, the director of national intelligence sitting right next to China's CDC director at this event 201, the simulation of a coronavirus pandemic that happened right before an actual, supposedly a pandemic of COVID, of a coronavirus in 2020. And yet we had no official explanation of any of this. So yeah, there was a huge lead up of sort of, and there was all this evangelizing about the science of social distancing, this idea of pandemic preparedness, and they were just pushing all these ideas, which, you know, obviously, were going to do a lot of harm, this idea of lockdowns.

And then once they saw the supposed success of the Chinese Communist Party's lockdown in Wuhan, of Xi Jinping's lockdown in Wuhan, of Xi Jinping's lockdown in Wuhan, China tells them all, essentially tells them what they want to hear, that this lockdown had succeeded in beating back this virus, that supposedly that it had reversed the curve. And through this one lockdown in Wuhan, it had just eliminated the virus from all of China. And now the virus is receding from all of China. The World Health Organization, which we know is in the pocket of the Chinese Communist Party, they come out at the end of February 2020 and tell the entire world very publicly, what China has shown the world is, you have to do this. If you do it, you can

stop the coronavirus. Copy China's response to COVID-19. They can tell this to every single country all over the world. That becomes the official guidance, this policy of lockdown, which actually had no precedent prior to that. And so they're telling these evangelists, these pandemic planning evangelists, essentially what they want to hear. It's a pretext to put all these maniacal plans into action. Of course, they know that's going to do a lot of harm, but it's this scorched earth thing that if we do this hard enough, like China did, we're going to be able to eliminate this virus too. The propaganda campaign comes out of that, this terrorizing the entire public, domestic

use of propaganda, to get a buy-in for this totalitarian policy. You look at the irony of this, that all these supposed hawks, these national security officials all over the world, the entire response, the initial lockdowns especially, had a major national security element that I think a lot of people aren't really aware of. They think it's Fauci and the public health guys. They played a very bad role as well. The CDC is very responsible for a lot of this, but the national security community played a major role in those initial lockdowns, especially that initial propaganda campaign. And so you get

the scorched earth event where they're implementing these policies that they know in advance. I mean, it's well documented. These policies are just going to destroy millions of lives, really unpredictable mental health consequences, obviously devastating for small business, economically just absolutely devastating, fastest economic crash since the Great Depression, but they did it all anyway because of that sort of evangelization that we can put our pandemic plans, all our plans for how we're going to combat this big pandemic and now it's here and we can do it. And Xi Jinping, you know, great guy. He showed us that we can, you know,

eliminate the virus. So they unleashed this propaganda campaign. And obviously when you actually stop and think about this, you go back and think about this. It's absolute nonsense. The idea that the Chinese Communist Party was able to eliminate the virus

from the entire country by shutting down one city for a couple months, but apparently nowhere outside of China. I mean, apparently the virus just jumps out to the rest of the world. I mean, it's a very smart virus, apparently, that respects national borders very well, the poorest border of over a billion people. But somehow it's not in China, but all the other countries around China are just maximum cases everywhere. Absolute nonsense. So the question here is why were so many high level officials? I mean, the closer you get to the highest level officials in charge of the response to COVID, the closer you get to that center of power, the more likely they are to treat that obviously forged data, which I have here as

the cover of my book, the more likely they are, the higher up you get to treat that ridiculous curve as being real. I mean, here it is, you see the cases going up and up and up, and then she gives the order, and then suddenly they just flatline. And that ridiculous forged data became the basis for the entire world's response. And beginning with those initial lockdowns, they knew they were going to destroy millions of lives, but it was a chance to put all initial lockdowns, they knew they were going to destroy millions of lives. But it was a chance to put all their plans in action.

So they did it anyway. And they got that Scorched Earth propaganda campaign. And it was completely ineffective. It failed, obviously. And, you know, cases just kept on coming. And so they're just flailing about, you know, with one policy after another. You know, next it's the arrows all over the ground. And then they're closing this and that and plexiglass, and you're stuffing kids in masks for years,

just in the censorship campaign. It's just insanity. But it all just comes out of that initial decision. So everything I'm doing is about getting more folks interested, raising awareness of how illiberal and bizarre that initial decision-making was. We need an official explanation for that. We need an official inquiry into how that official decision was made. go along with this and, you know, you know, propagandize the own public domestically to go along with these hideously illiberal policies, which is always illiberal from the very beginning. I mean, there's a lot to answer here, but, you know, every single piece of it, when you look back,

it's just absolutely damning about how this policy decision came about. Well, now you've, again, put a little focus on it for me. So the kind of person that would go to that convention, that event 201 planning, are already enthusiasts, evangelists. It's like having a religious organization get together and say, it's time. I must unleash our thing on the world. And I'm wondering if in there is where the Chinese had their way with a bunch of people. And that's why they echoed so powerfully the Chinese position, because they were already

disposed by some sort of persuasion that was going on at that event. But that to me, I mean, there's got to be other world events that have been like this. We have a bunch of people like-minded. Yes, they're scientists, but they are evangelists. They train on this one thing. The one thing magically happens two months later. They can't help but pull the trigger, and they do so with great enthusiasm to save the world,

which is why they go into these little, it's always to save the world, which is why they go into these little, it's always to save the world. That's why they go into these little, these evangelical organizations like that. And just beware physicians. Beware physicians that want to save the world. That's not science. That's not scientists.

Everything is not about certainty and hubris. It's about humility. And if you want to save the world, that's not a humble thought. And you may harm. And these people did. And I'm guessing that the Chinese had influence there. So things were already set up for the dominoes to fall. It's rather extraordinary when you really tell the story.

I still don't get where the terror came from. Did they talk about using terror at that meeting? Yeah. I mean, like I said, it's one of the big mysteries. That's absolutely true about pandemic planning. It's just a bizarre sort of pandemic planning industry that cropped up around the early 2000s. And from the very, you know, provenance of that, the very beginning of that, you know, you find this evidence of the influence of the Chinese Communist Party on the sort of pandemic planning industry from the very advent of the idea of social distancing to these, you know, annual simulations they were having with Event 201. You know, like I

said, you had the director of national intelligence sitting right next to China's CDC director. They're all just these sort of China-friendly folks who are just sort of grooms to take this information from China and treat them as sort of a normal government, a normal regime when, you know, at the same time, we're getting a message that, you know, China's anything but, and very accurately i mean political conditions you know xi jinping was just elected unanimously three thousand to zero for a third term as a president of china it's uh it's not yeah so it's very totalitarian three thousand zero so so michael let me um that's just it's comical

uh but let's let's take a little break right here. And then I want to now launch into how different the regime is and how poorly we understand it. And I'll start with sort of my sort of slow awakening to all this so you can put a finer point on it. Okay? Right. Absolutely. All right. I think you know how much Susan and I love our GenuCell skincare

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satisfied customers. Visit birchgold.com slash drew for your free info kit on gold and to claim eligibility for your free home safe by March 31st on qualifying purchases. Again, visit B-I-R-C-H gold, birchgold.com slash D-R-E-W. My microphone on, there we go. Of course, we're with Michael P. Singer here. The book is Snake Whale Science. And Michael, before I get into the misconceptions about the CCP, the Chinese hawks all around me are asking me,

what about the 100,000 leaked emails? What about those leaked emails? Get that story. So let's get to that story, lest I drift away from it. Tell us about that. Yeah, so recently, there was a journalist in the United Kingdom who was working with the former health secretary, who is really responsible for orchestrating all the lockdowns across the United Kingdom in 2020 and 21. His name's Matt Hancock he's uh quite a character he's also caught breaking his own lockdown rules to cheat on his wife he's uh you know not not really an a-plus guy but

anyway this uh this journalist um was helping him you know supposedly write his book and so he started spilling the beans and uh you know trusting her and uh gave her access to 100,000 text messages for the purpose of drafting the book. And then she leaked them to The Telegraph. It's one of the biggest leaks of the history of the United Kingdom. So it's a huge story. And it's really a look under the hood about how these decisions were being made during the lockdown in the United Kingdom. And it's really damning.

You know, one of the worst is this text message comes out where Hancock is talking about when are we going to release the new variant. He means for purposes of messaging with the United Kingdom. When are we going to release the new variant to get maximum fear out, scare the pants off the public and get them to comply with lockdowns. I mean, that is just absolutely, you think about the thinking behind that, you know, completely illiberal. They already know about this variant and they're planning strategically for when to reveal

that knowledge is if they own that knowledge, they're going to reveal it to the public in a way that maximizes fear to get compliance with these measures. I mean, you know, absolutely horrifying. In another instance, you had, you know, Boris Johnson, the prime minister of the United Kingdom, who was a little bit like Trump, you know, he wasn't really all into the lockdown thing. And, you know, unfortunately, he didn't trust his own instincts on that, similar to, you know, how Trump was kind of railroaded into this stuff. And at one point, you know, he wants to lift some of the lockdown measures, but he's informed that, similar to how Trump was kind of railroaded into this stuff. And at one point, he wants to lift some of the lockdown measures, but he's informed that it's too out of sync with public opinion. So based on the public opinion polls, he rents eggs on his instincts and goes back on

lifting those lockdowns. Later, he's informed that the United Kingdom may announce a second strict lockdown at the end of 2020. And later, Boris Johnson is informed that the data they had made that decision on was completely wrong. So, you know, Johnson is, again, kind of chagrined by that. In another instance, you had the advisors to Boris Johnson, you know, the government of the United Kingdom is talking about, you know, whether to have masks in schools, have masks on little kids in the United Kingdom, which they did that there for a little while too. And they decide that it's not worth a fight with the First Minister of Scotland, who was

kind of a COVID nut herself, Nicola Sturgeon. She just recently announced her resignation. But they imposed masks. They forced all the kids in schools in the United Kingdom to wear masks because they wanted to avoid a fight with Nicola Sturgeon. She was too strong-willed for them. I mean, these are the heads of the government of the United Kingdom. You know, it's just, oh, you read that and it's just, oh my gosh, it's mortifying just to read about those decisions. So really, I mean, it's absolutely horrifying to read this stuff. It's a massive story,

both in the United Kingdom and abroad, you know, how these decisions were being made. And I think it's a good thing because it's getting people's attention back on the main story here, which was those lockdowns, the mandates, the masks, the vaccine passes, which were just so illiberal. And the messaging, especially the domestic propaganda, the censorship that came along with it, there were just... People became so... They were only getting one side of the story and it terrified them. A poll taken at one point, I think it was the end of 2020 or 2021, the average American believed this virus was 100 times deadlier than it actually was. The actual

fatality rate was overall about 0.2, 0.3%, much, much higher if you're older. If you're younger than 60 or 70, I think it was never higher than, you know, point, but it was far, far lower than 0.1%, you know, really just not deadly at all. But, you know, most Americans, according to the study, believe that if they caught COVID, you know, it'd be like a temperance of times deadlier than it actually was. I mean, they were just terrified. And it was all because of these decisions that their own governments were making. It was all propaganda. Are you going to write another book?

Is another book coming? I'd like to, but, you know, got to have the subject that compels me as much as snake oil. I mean, what really just inspired me to write this book. I'd never written, but you know, gotta, you know, gotta have the subject that compels me as much as a snake oil. I mean, what really just inspired me to write this book. I'd never written one before this, which is my passion about the subject matter. That's what got me researching and reporting. Well, but there's, there's more to the story since it's like you need a snake oil too. You know, there's more to the story since then. There's a lot of stuff that's come out.

Absolutely. I made a lot of discoveries, discoveries since then, especially about especially about you know some of the leading instigators of these policies because that was kind of the question that um you know where my book left off is you know what is the stories behind some of the lead instigators these policies and those are stories that have come out in other books often ones that are mainstream like like, you know, pro lockdown, um, shedding light on some of the cast of characters here. You know, we talked about Deborah Birx and how she was orchestrating lockdowns across the United States in Italy. The story is even stranger because Italy was the first country to go into lockdown and it all began in Lombardi, Italy. And that

was actually in February 21st, 2020 is when Lombardy, Italy went into lockdown. That decision is utterly bizarre because prior to February 21st, 2020, there was nobody really in the world that you could count on one hand the number of people who are talking about the rest of the world actually adopting China's lockdown policy. That wasn't even considered a serious conversation topic. The idea that this policy that was completely illiberal, everybody knew it was totalitarian and barbaric, had no basis in the pandemic plans, had no precedent in the modern Western world. Everybody saw China was doing it, and that's so bizarre, Xi Jinping being a dictator doing

his thing. Nobody was talking about the rest of the world adopting that horrific policy from china and then suddenly just like that on february 21st 2020 lombardi adopts his policy from china it goes into this is not only it's not an epidemic it has no precedent this is before the world health organization had even announced their support for the policy. I think I know what this was. I think I knew it because I remember I was listening to communications from the Italian doctors at the time. A, it was just a complete panicked response, complete.

And here are the elements that they had. I remember thinking to myself, well, this doesn't apply to us. A, the hospital system was, at least the ICU system was overwhelmed there, A. B, the doctors were grossly mismanaging the patients and they were all dying. It was a mess. I could just tell there was like one intensive care doctor for the entire region and they didn't know what they were doing. It was a total mess. And I remember thinking at the time, I don't know, I've not looked this litter data up, but at least the sense I got was it was killing a lot of older women.

Mom in Italy is a big deal. And when the moms, the grandmas and the moms started dying, they freaked the hell out. And there was no one there to treat them and the hospital system was overwhelmed. Do something, everybody stay home. And that's what it looked like to me at the time. I remember vividly assessing it and thinking, well, at least we're not going to do that. We'll take care of things. And there we went. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

that's absolutely right. There was some of that panic, but if you look closer, because even that panic does not excuse, you know, this policy, adopting a policy from China, which has no precedent in the Western world. I mean, no basis in the pandemic plans. That is a bizarre step to make when nobody was even entertaining that idea. So you look closer, and it's actually one of my most popular articles, and getting that story out there might be incentive to write another book on its own. But you look at the communications from the health minister in Italy who made that decision to lock down Lombardi. He was well aware that he was copying policy from China. He made that very clear.

And he actually wrote a memoir about it, which was pulled from shelves. The book was considered so hideous that they simply pulled it off of shelves all across Italy. It was only out for a few days. And you can download it and read it now and um which i did for my article but the reason was pulled from shelves um you know they gave some contextual reason but the real reason which everyone knows is that he wasn't really taking it all seriously he makes it abundantly clear throughout the entire book he wanted to use the response to the coven what he's most excited about was using it to implement far left reforms across Italy. He was a member of the Young Socialist Alliance in Europe.

He was very transparently having about very far left policies. He's very excited about China, this real Sinophile throughout the book. And he just did not seem to care about COVID. He actually wrote this book in 2020. They were doing this whole insane response to COVID for many years after this book. Did lockdowns really do nothing? I mean, they bought some time here and there, didn't they? See, I disagree with that. I think they were absolutely horrible for health. So if this virus was spreading all over the world by fall 2019, it had the chance to spread everywhere.

But it wasn't until places started these lockdowns that you actually had these big surges and deaths. We know it was spreading everywhere, but actually, excess deaths until that point were actually quite normal. And everybody you know, around February, January, February in 2020, was just going about daily life as normal. It was really kind of lockdowns themselves and the absolute tear and the stress that induced and the, you know, adverse health outcomes of that. It's not until after those lockdowns go into effect, they have these horror stories about, you know, overflowing hospitals and messed up themselves. That's, you know, part of why this is going on so long, gotten so insane, why people are, you know, so up in arms about this, is that truth is so difficult to accept. That this policy of their own government implemented, that, many cases, in most cases, I'd say, they supported it to some degree.

It all seemed so scary at the time, was that big of a policy catastrophe. It did not stop the virus. It did not slow it down in any meaningful sense. I think a study came out afterward that the lockdown slowed the spread by, I think it was like 0.1%, some absolutely meaningless, and others an absolute policy catastrophe. These lockdowns basically had very little effect on the spread of the virus. Meanwhile, they had all these adverse health outcomes.

And frankly, I mean, they destroyed a lot of lives and did an extraordinary amount of harm in a very short time. And the reluctance of the public and leaders especially to accept that fact is what's gone on, what's responsible for so much of the insanity that we've seen in the last three years. And it's also why we have no real official explanation for why this is happening. We're getting it through, through leaks. We still don't know how the decision was made to unleash that domestic propaganda on the public. I mean, think about that. One way, whether you still don't know what to think about lockdowns or you hate

lockdowns or whatever position you're on, this is a massive decision that affected millions, you know, across the entire world, you know, billions of lives. It affected millions across the entire world, billions of lives. It affected everyone in a massive way, just a huge intrusion on life in 2020 and 2021. If they were proud of the effects of that decision, if they thought it was smashing success, wouldn't they be happy to give us a full explanation? And, you know, this is the big decision we made. I mean, these people were confidently made decisions. They knew it was time. We're going to destroy millions of lives.

Singing her own praises in her book, she thinks she's a hero. She's the one. Look no further than there. But yeah, we still have to deal with this. She does. She does. So I only have 15 minutes left with you. I want to go back to now what we get wrong about China and what's going on in the present moment. What did we get wrong about the Chinese Communist Party and the culture there?

I mean, you know, like you were saying earlier, you know, I was very naive about China as well. I think we all were. And that was really very deliberate. From when China reopened back in the 1970s, when Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger first reopened China, we did so on the idea of change through trade. China was one of the most totalitarian countries in the world. Under Mao Zedong's regime, it was one of the most ruthless tyrants in the entire 20th century. Really just tyrannical, long tyrannical rule. So we began engaging with China in part to form an alliance that would hasten the downfall of the Soviet Union, in fact, geopolitically. But at the time, we did so with both eyes open. The idea that this is still a very totalitarian country, engagement has to be limited. And we're doing so on the basis that, you know, as they advance

economically through our relationship, through their relationship with us, they're going to become more like us. They're going to demand more human rights, become more liberal. So over time, you know, we sort of, the entire Western world lets their guard down, as they develop relations with China and obviously more and more commerce, more and more industry, more and more everything starts being produced in China, these economic relations become much, much closer. And so over those decades, the story we're being told is that change through trade is a success. That China was becoming more like us. Every business student

goes and studies abroad in Shanghai, and it just looks like this great huge success story, and it's just another part of the developed world now, and everything's normal, and you can do business there and have a lot of fun there. China and the United States were just like peas and carrots, and they're just one of us now. But what we didn't realize was that the wool was being thrown in front of our eyes. That over those decades, totalitarianism was just doing what it was doing. The Chinese Communist Party was just doing what they've always done, which is co-opting and, you know, wining and dining and getting the entire world to accept their totalitarian system and normalize that within the entire global international community.

So that, you know, by the time you get to when Xi Jinping comes around, you know, every single one of our institutions from think tanks, universities, newspapers, all our major institutions who we rely on to tell us about the world, to paint our picture of reality, have all had these connections to the Chinese Communist Party. Or at the very least, their own financiers, the sort of billionaire class here in the United States, are so bought into China that they force elites within these other institutions to speak about China as a normal global partner. And so then what happens around the 2010s is you start getting these horror stories about how suddenly you start hearing about concentration camps.

You're like, wait, what? They have this entire system of concentration camps. That's just bizarre. You think, huh, that doesn't match with what I've told about change through trade. You start hearing about treaty violations in Hong Kong. Hong Kong's getting completely thrown under the bus. They were supposed to be guaranteed by treaty to maintain their democratic system, their system which ensures all their rights for 50 years.

And China's Communist Party flagrantly flouted that. And now Hong Kong is just like China. And so you start hearing about that, and that's bizarre. What's going on here? The serious backslide. And of course, as we all know, Xi Jinping has declared himself dictator for life now and just declared a third term by unanimous vote. So this is not at all the picture of this changing China that we've been told throughout

all these years. And then most egregiously of all, of course, in 2020, the entire world suddenly adopts Xi Jinping's lockdown policy, piggybacking on this pandemic planning. But none of that was anything like this idea of forcing everybody to shut down their businesses and all these forced mandates that we suddenly got in the terror campaign in 2020. I mean, that was just unbelievable. And yet all these elite institutions, which have been so groomed throughout all these years to normalize China, are treating this ridiculously forged data from the Chinese Communist Party, and they're supposedly the

people's super successful lockdown in Wuhan, as real. So you can see how the groundwork for that was laid over years and decades normalization process, which now that the political situation in China has deteriorated so rapidly under Xi Jinping and his dictatorship, that the implications of that influence, the stakes have grown much, much higher. Because before, the influence is mostly about normalizing the China's totalitarian system for domestic purposes or largely for human rights purposes. They played the game with other things as well. There's monetary policy, currency manipulation. Obviously, climate science is a big one where they're always claiming they're going to be carbon zero and everybody around the world says seriously, but it's all just a big lie.

So they're lying in all these fields, mostly it's for domestic purposes. That, you know, their human rights abuses within China are the international community turns a blind eye to them and say, you know, China is changing. So you're free to do business there. You're free to, you know, export all your industry, all this money in China.

They're changing. So you can ignore all these human rights abuses. You know, the first off-r all this money in China. They're changing. So you can ignore all these human rights abuses. You know, the first off ramp was really with Tiananmen Square in 1989. I mean, we were told that China was changing, but suddenly there's just this, you know, hideous massacre of thousands of their own people, just these peaceful protesters, some of their best and brightest students. That was really when the world should have taken notice that this idea of change through trade was not working, that China was not becoming like us,

because they're already so invested there, because they're already making so much money. Suddenly it was just business as usual. And so the whole world just goes back. And the bill for that really came due in 2020. That suddenly, you know, these institutions, leaders institutions all over the world who had been so groomed to normalize China,

implement this hideously totalitarian policy. I mean, really just the most totalitarian policy has ever been implemented, especially in the United States and really much of modern, just the modern developed world as well. I mean, and nobody is looking into China's influence on that. Why am I, you know, interning in California? Like, what is the next step?

It begs the question. Read his mind. Something this horrific, something this horrific, like adopting Xi Jinping's lockdown policy. And the obvious question that arises from that is, what was the Chinese Communist Party's influence on the global adoption of Xi Jinping's policy that was so catastrophic? That seems to be the obvious question there. And yet none of our institutions seem to be taking that question seriously. You look all over the major media outlets, that question is just non-existent.

I've just been completely whitewashed. There's nobody looking into it. I mean, people hope that our intelligence agencies are, but I follow the National Security Command. There's no suggestion that they are as well. They have to get their orders from the executive, what's influenced by public opinion. If they have no incentive to do that, they're not going to look into it as well. So this very obvious question, this mountain of evidence that the Chinese Communist Party did very, you know, had a major influence

on the global adoption of this lockdown policy has been that there's just this silence, this void around it. And the void around that extraordinarily important part of the story is largely what's responsible for the bizarre sort of surreality, this false reality that we've been experiencing for the last three years. intellectual articles, but acting like China's response, their data is real, that this virus, they did actually eliminate it within all of China by shutting down this one city. This absolutely silly narrative and this otherwise intellectual sounding articles.

So maintaining that false reality, because to please the Chinese Communist Party is responsible for so much of the insanity that we experienced right here at home for the last three years. The economic relations that are being maintained by our billionaire class, nearly all of them are bought into it. I think for normal people, it's like, okay, we understand that decoupling from China, we're going to take a hit in stock prices. But for a big political event like that, we understand that a major country backslides into totalitarianism. That's what you have to do. But the billionaire class is much, much more than that. In some cases, that's 80, 90% of their wealth. In some cases, they could even face bankruptcy. They're very, very reluctant to do that. And so they kowtow to the

Chinese Communist Party, the things that they really care about, which is the response to COVID. And that is completely kept out. They've created this taboo around what to me is one of the most important issues in the world today is how the Chinese Communist Party influence that lockdown policy. That's simply taboo. And they do have a red line. Well, I wonder if also if you zero it in on who systematically crushed the lab leak hypothesis, who was being influenced to push that propaganda, whether that would be the same people that you're looking for that would help explain why the lockdown became pervasive.

You understand what I'm saying? Right. There's some of that. Yeah, you know, there's absolutely been Chinese Communist Party influence on the lab leak theory. But in my experience, you know, the mainstream media is much more inclined to engage with that subject because there's less at stake there because a lab leak, lab leak, that's bad for China, it's bad for the handful of scientists who have so much anger at those scientists for supposedly covering up this theory, but that's not going to endanger their financial connections with China where they're making all their money. There's a different degree. You can still hear about that lab leak story in the mainstream media. There's been plenty of mainstream articles written about it.

You'll know about that. The bigger question to me and where the most damage was done was in importing these policies in response to the virus from the Chinese Communist Party, especially those initial lockdowns. But also, you'll find influence all the rest of the mandates as well. The testing, the ventilators, which killed so many people, especially in those initial days before a grassroots campaign put a stop to it. That's simply considered a taboo because it's so awful for the Chinese Communist Party.

And stop and think about that. If something is taboo just because it's bad for the Chinese Communist Party, then what does that mean about all this hawkishness of China? Do they even mean what they say? If they're not even going to look into the worst things that the Chinese Communist Party is doing in the world, then how can we take them seriously in all their hawkishness of China? This is very difficult to wrap your mind around, but do people pretend to be so hawkish about

China? They're getting all these warnings. There's the Chinese spy balloon. There's all this theater about how we're taking on the Chinese. And the Chinese play into it as well. They issue these very public announcements of the lab leak theory. And oh, we are so upset about your lab leak. They say it in their own state media outlets every single day. But meanwhile, the real story here, the far more damaging one is simply a taboo. You simply won't hear about it at any major media outlet. I mean, and that's why my work has been

so fruitful is because this entire storage is right there on the surface. You know, the fact that all these measures, the lockdowns, the testing, the, you know, mandates, the fact that you have China's paw prints on the origin of every single one of these policies is just right there on the surface, but it's simply not being reported because it's just so damaging to the Chinese Communist Party and the financiers of our elite institutions stand so much to lose from that. So we're at this strange juncture now where everyone knows that the Chinese Communist Party is backsliding into totalitarianism. They don't even really try to hide it. Xi Jinping is the most hawkish,

ruthless leader since Mao Zedong. He's just declared himself dictator for life. They have concentration camps. He just makes it very clear that he doesn't think that capitalism and communism can coexist, and he sees it as his duty to make sure that communism um you know engulfs the entire world these things are very transparent but you have our own elite saying no no no no no you know that's yeah we're taking it seriously you know we're going to take it seriously we'll get through that taiwan they have their yeah what they make it sound like i wouldn't want want to be Japan or Taiwan. Right. They're doing everything in power to whitewash this story so that they're not forced to decouple from China and lose their investments there. And that's creating the false reality that's responsible for the war. Susan wants to know if we in the Ukraine war did nothing other than push Russia into the hands of China, the arms of China?

It's certainly possible. And you see that, you know, clear as day, that game that they're playing there as well. You have all the think tanks and, you know, all the, you know, stooges of our own sort of billionaire class here insisting that, no, no, China is our buddies. They got our back. They're not supporting Russia, you know. And meanwhile, you know, Xi Jinping, the chinese communist party is in these laptops like no we support russia i mean they're sending them arms it's you know clear as day and so you see

that game where it's our own elites you know um for like a better we're lying to us about you know how bad things have gotten in china how much much China has deteriorated. They're throwing the wool over our eyes because they're so afraid of looting their investments there. I may have to bring you back to get further down this rabbit hole. You got to the good stuff in the last minute. Well, Susan, I wonder before I wrap it up, is there anything you want to ask? I feel like it's smoke and mirrors. We're going around in circles over here about the lab leak still. Well, he's off doing something else that's even going to be more nefarious down the road.

And, you know, because, you know, I always feel like you should be looking to his next move. And it looks like to me that it's he's trying to get world domination and he's weakening America. He's done a good job. We're all just kind of going, wow, what just happened? But it took us three years to figure it out. Meanwhile, who knows what the next thing is going to be? What happened with response to COVID and those lockdowns really weakened America. I think even more so than that, the primary goal there was simply to seed a certain degree of totalitarianism in our everyday lives. You have people getting comfortable lying about something really, really big, the idea that

there's a super virus and it justifies this definite state of emergency, all these illiberal policies. That's Xi Jinping's vision, is that people will embrace totalitarianism on their own, that it won't need this entire world war, that China's influence will simply cause the world to embrace this totalitarian communist system. And so, in the meantime, yeah, everything you're being told about China, these stories, this Chinese spy balloon, the lab leak to some degree, a lot of it is just theater. It's what our elites are comfortable telling us is, yeah, China is doing this stuff and obviously they can't hide

how much the situation in China is backsliding politically, but they're not telling us the worst thing that the Chinese Communist Party is doing. And that's absolutely terrifying because as we saw with lockdowns, it's a lot worse than people realize. If you want to hear more,

it's MichaelSanger, S-E-N-G-E-R dot Substack dot com and on Twitter at MichaelPSanger, S-E-N-G-E-R. Michael, it's always fascinating slash hair-raising to have a conversation with you. But we're going to have you back

as more comes up in the news and we need to assure me that But we're going to have you back as more comes up in the news and we need to like, yes, I'm sure. Yes. My pleasure. The world's not coming to an end.

Yeah. Susan needs to, she will not sleep this week, this week. She'll read, she's been reading your book on and off. Like she rereads it and rereads it and goes back to it. And it's been sitting next to our,

I'm not kidding. It's been sitting next to our television since, since you, we last talked to you and that was what, probably 14 months ago or something. Was it that long ago? Yeah. I appreciate that so much.

So, and we've been sort of filling in our own, trying to understand what's been going on and slowly, but surely I'm gaining a clearer and clearer. We'll have you back. Just, you know, anytime you want to come on.

Yeah. Anytime you have something to promote, let us know. We'll bring you back in. But I got to wrap it up today i appreciate you being here thank you very much michael thank you thank you thank you about so much appreciate it and uh we're going to get out of here quickly as well today tomorrow uh we have uh dr mackies as and uh as we said gadad on the 21st and Vicki Malley or Mayo on Thursday. Mayo. Mayo. Okay.

We'll see you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving.

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