Ask Dr. Drew - Megyn Kelly on Damar Hamlin, Bill Gates & Jeffrey Epstein’s Relationship, Athlete Sudden Deaths & AB2098 Doctor Censorship Bill – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 164

Episode Date: January 12, 2023

Megyn Kelly joins Dr. Drew to discuss the alarming uptick of heart-related injuries and sudden deaths of elite athletes, Melinda Gates’ statements about Bill Gates’ “abhorrent, evil” relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, the effect of CA’s new AB2098 censorship bill, and the top stories in the first week of 2023. Megyn Kelly is a journalist & host of The Megyn Kelly Show, which is on Sirius XM Triumph channel 111 every weekday at noon EST. It can also be found at youtube.com/megynkelly & wherever you get your podcasts. Watch Megyn Kelly’s previous episode of Ask Dr. Drew from September 2020: https://youtu.be/IoLq9yqYQwA 「 SPONSORED BY 」 • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get 10% off with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. Hundreds of millions of people have received a COVID-19 vaccine, and serious adverse reactions are uncommon. Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician and Dr. Kelly Victory is a board-certified emergency specialist. Portions of this program will examine countervailing views on important medical issues. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 GEAR PROVIDED BY 」 • BLUE MICS - Find your best sound at https://drdrew.com/blue • ELGATO - See how Elgato's lights transformed Dr. Drew's set: https://drdrew.com/sponsors/elgato/ 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Everybody, thank you for being here a little bit early. Today, my guest really requires no introduction, of course. It's the great Megyn Kelly. You can see her and listen to her on the Megyn Kelly Show that is on SiriusXM Triumph channel. It's 111 every weekday at noon Eastern time. Also, you can find it on the YouTube channel, which is Megyn Kelly. You can follow her at Megyn Kelly.

And do not miss her first name. It's M-E-G-Y-N Kelly,, obviously, K-E-L-L-Y. And there's a lot going on today, and she and I are going to get into it. I really don't want to belabor it at all. Let's just get going. Our laws as it pertains to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl, and heroin.

Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f***'s sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin, ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f***'s sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time.

Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want help stopping, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. Happy New Year, everybody. It is just a delight to be here with you. Thank you for coming in a little bit early and a great way to kick off today's show with Megyn Kelly. I just got to quickly, before I bring her in here, mention a rumble rant. Black Blake Bell just said, how do you react to and explain the level of brutal vitriol aimed at you? It's bizarre.

Hard to watch. On Twitter. Megan and I will talk about that. We'll get into all that stuff. It's hard for Susan to watch. I'm actually getting used to it. I have fun with it. And it's never what I say.

This is the one thing I've learned about Twitter crap storms. It's never what I say. It's always what somebody said I said or said I meant or should have said something. Everyone's an expert on the use of prose. So apologies if I triggered somebody, but I was having a reaction upset. I was deeply disturbed for this young athlete like everybody else was. And I continue. And by the way, put at the end of my tweet that created all the weird vitriol, prayers for him and his family. Right now is when he really needs them. We're going to talk about it with Megan in just a second.

But recovery from anoxic encephalopathy is a touch and go thing. It either will go good or it will not go good. And so we're praying that it does go well. So let's bring in Megan Kelly. Megan, thank you for joining us. Hi, my pleasure. Thanks for having me. And as you told me before the mics heated up, just move on.

Move on from Twitter storms. She said, fuck them. I used a more colorful term. Yeah, I think. Yeah, you can't get torn up by that stuff. I mean, there's another day, another Twitter controversy. It always passes in a day or two. They've always got to find a few people to pick on who go against the narrative.

And, you know, we don't know what happened to this poor guy on the Buffalo Bills. It's horrific to watch. Everyone's heart goes out to him, including yours. So basically what Twitter told you is you're allowed to ask and speculate whether he had a cardiac arrest due to the impact of the tackle, but you're not allowed to ask whether there are any other causes that led to heart vulnerability. And especially not if it uses the word vaccine, like you're just not allowed to ask that. And shouldn't we be asking all questions right now and exploring this? Just the main goal of everybody is to see him recover and to prevent this

from happening to anybody else. 100%. I think there's a very high probability that COVID itself may figure into this. It may be COVID plus vaccine. The point is we need to know how to screen these athletes for

these problems if they've had COVID. Maybe it is the vaccine. I don't know. I don't think there's a high probability of that, but it might be that. To have what's called a commotio cordis incident from football is exceedingly rare. As you know, it's never happened before in the NFL where somebody takes a blunt chest trauma and it upsets the electrical circuitry of the heart. I've seen it before.

I've seen it from an elbow in a soccer game, and the most common is actually from a baseball to the heart. I've seen it before. I've seen it from an elbow in a soccer game. And the most common is actually from a baseball to the chest. And it usually requires a wrap, like a wrap to the chest, like not a trauma, you know, a tackle that just doesn't even make any sense. And by the way, that kid got up after the tackle. If anyone who's ever seen commotio, they're just down, they're dead. That's it. Their heart is not beating, and they don't get up after the incident. Now, there are sort of exceptions to that, and of course, we have to investigate this further. But listen, I've talked to cardiologists about this. I get what the range of possibilities are, which you have to wait to see. Megan, before we go on to talk any more about this tragedy, I want to take off a little bit

lighter note. You know I have broadcast for many years with Adam Carolla, and he and I do a podcast on a regular basis. And he said, I think Megyn Kelly has a crush on me. You. You on him. You on him, that is. Yeah. Enough said. That's a reaction speaks for itself.

You are a medical doctor i i would submit that in that in the medical field that is called projection well he went on to say you know what megan kelly's the perfect woman megan kelly's the perfect woman i thought oh that's that just fits just just right for you adam the perfect woman has a crush on you perfect well done sir wait my feelings are suddenly starting to get very warm about him. Actually, wait, you added that second part. And there was a third part, which was a lot of the warm feeling that he was feeling was founded on the fact that you and he agree on almost everything. And so that's where he found

his love for you. I have to be honest. We do agree on a everything. And so that's where he found his love for you. I have to be honest. We do agree on a lot. And the thing is, I only wish I were half as clever as Adam is. His take on virtually anything, maybe it's not the newest thing you've ever heard, right? Maybe it's something like, oh, okay, we shouldn't have mask mandates, something I agree with.

But the way in and the way out when it's coming from Adam Carolla is something you never foresaw. You never would have put it in those terms. It's just a little bit extra in terms of its cleverness, its innovation, its entertainment. I don't know. That's his gift. That's why I love talking to him about anything. Yeah, it is a gift. And I'm the same way And, of course, it always has that gloss of really good humor on top of it. But he is not troubled by details that the rest of us are sort of entrenched in. He sees with clarity, you know, a lot of stuff that it's hard to see with that kind of clarity. And it's interesting, you know, he was poorly served by the LA Unified School District. He was not taught how to read.

His parents put him in a hippie school. By sixth grade, he was put in the LA Unified School District. He was not taught how to read. His parents put him in a hippie school. By sixth grade, he was put in the LA Unified. They told him he was mentally handicapped, and they put him in ceramics for the next seven years and just warehoused him in high school. And here was this magnificent mind that they just put. You wonder how many other kids are being sidelined by that. I also wonder,

had he actually been deeper into education, had been given education? I have two thoughts. One is, uh-oh, what would that mind have done then? Could have been an evil scientist or something. Or B, might it have clouded this clarity that he has, this gift that he has? Yeah, no, I wouldn't undo anything like that in his past because if he had been in private school, what have you, and gone straight through to Harvard or Yale, he probably would have become inaccessible to those of us who want to hear from Adam Carolla, to the masses who don't have that kind of a sage and savvy spokesperson for their point of view, right? It's like the very fact that he can talk to the common man and take very complex ideas and condense them into digestible bits and in a way that you can process and you can laugh a little bit about these horrific things

happening that you know are deeply wrong from a guy like Adam Carolla is what makes him so special. Like it would be just as soon as he had that Ivy League education or had that sort of private school, boarding school upbringing, he would have been lost to all of us. And he would have been just another talking head. He would have been indoctrinated in the leftist thinking as well. So his actual point of view would have changed, never mind his means of communicating. Well, that's true. had was that experience of starting with nothing, finding work, you know, humping drywall on, on, on, uh, uh, construction sites, becoming a boxing is all these things that he had to do to sort of

crawl his way out, uh, would not have been in his experience, which is very, very interesting. So let's, let's, I want to get back in point on that point of that on Fox news. That's what Roger Ailes always wanted to hire. He always wanted somebody who sort of had more of a working class or middle class background and not an Ivy League education. If you said you went to Columbia Journalism School, he would have said, I might forgive you. Maybe. I don't know. I'm not sure. He was totally against that kind of education.

Not smarts. Street smarts he loved, but he didn't like somebody who came from elite institutions because he knew it would come with it. And so it was only in working for him that I realized how much not coming from that background would be a gift in my communications career. Well, Megan, this is a topic I did not expect to get into, but I went to a small liberal arts college and I got this incredible experience. It expanded my brain and my critical thinking locked in. I've learned to read and write effectively in ways and speak in ways that only a very rigorous liberal arts education can do. And I valued it so greatly, and I admired the school for having offered me that and done that for me. And in recent years, I don't even recognize these institutions. So the Amherst, the Williams, the Swarthmore, the Middlebury's, the Bowdoin's, I don't recognize them anymore.

Although I feel like they're slowly coming back, I don't know what to do with that. They become sort of the opposite of what they were. They become these indoctrination camps rather than environments for free thinking. Yeah. Well, I mean, I would say at Syracuse where I went, which was not an elite institution in the way we're discussing, they're going through the same thing. You can be leveled down and still be swept up in this woke absurdity. I'd love to hear more about why you think they're coming out of it. I mean, just today, we almost, we didn't get to it on the show because we just had so much to cover, but we did the story on Stanford University and some group there that's trying to ban every other word under the sun. They don't like parents. They don't like ladies

and gentlemen. They don't like American citizens. I mean, you could go down. It's like, would you? So they seem to be gearing up more than ever. And I really think, you know, what are we going to do? Because I have a 13 year old and 11 year old and a nine year old, and they can't all go to liberty. Like what if they don't get it? I don some other options besides the three or four good conservative colleges that we have. Well, I would argue that the highly funded larger institutions are marching into the sunset. I will just point at one aspect of the same phenomenon you're describing at Stanford, which was they did a study where they looked at the number of Stanford students on bicycles in a given week wearing a helmet versus wearing a mask. It was about 80% mask, 20% helmet. That tells you pretty much everything you need to know about what's going on there. So, yeah, critical thought dead.

So, uh, what I think they're coming, I think the smaller ones are coming back because I think the alumni have withdrawn their financial support and they're highly dependent on that financial support and not because so much I object to what they're doing so much. I just don't under, I don't recognize the institution. It's not the institution that I, that I wanted to support. I don't, but when I recognize it again, I'm right back in. I'm back in. But I feel like I've been talking to some of the kids that are there presently, and it sounds familiar again. It's interesting. Bill Maher and I had a conversation about being in those kinds of institutions during the 70s, and he had the same experience I did. And I recognized it in him,

and I sort of called it out because he went to Cornell at a time when Cornell was very much about thinking and learning how to think and read. And he too had the same criticism of his institution that I was seeing. But we're getting into the weeds. I want to talk about AB 2098. I want you to put on your legal head for a second. So AB 2098 is a new law that goes into effect here in California where physicians can be sanctioned by essentially any means. The Board of Medical Quality Assurance retains its ability to punish physicians however they wish if they deviate too far in their informed consent or practice with patients from the so-called standard of care. And let me just frame this as I spent 15 years fighting the standard of care when the standard of care in the 90s and early 2000s was you handed every one of my patients 90 Vicodin every time they left the emergency room. And that killed hundreds and hundreds of my patients. I fought it. And back then, I was sanctioned by the Board of Medical Quality Assurance, my hospital administration, the California Medical Association, the Department of Mental Health.

They all came down on me. They never formally did anything, but they were pressuring me the entire time. Guess what? I turned out to be right. I saved hundreds of lives by doing so. Now, the standard of care is, well, you have to fall in line with what the board says it is. What do we do with this? It's horrific. I wish it were a legal issue. I don't think it is. It's not the government silencing the speech necessarily, which it's not

allowed to do. And also certain medical standards have been upheld by the courts as appropriate in any event. But I think it's a matter of civil disobedience. I really think you're going to need doctors who are willing to buck the rules and take a stand and save lives and go down swinging. Sadly, I know that's easy to say. Believe me, in another life I was married to a doctor, so I understand the amount of training that goes into becoming one. But I don't see any way forward. like either that or you got to leave. You got to leave the state of California because the wacky citizens out there have apparently supported this. There's not a revolt on the streets like there should be. I mean, even the same people who were sanctioning,

you know, certain messaging on COVID, they have now reversed that exact messaging on COVID. And they haven't come out and said out and out, we were wrong, but they've essentially admitted they were wrong. And yet they would have punished any physician who questioned those edicts early on in the pandemic. That should be enough to have the Californians revolt and say, no, this is a dangerous practice. It's very anti-science, but like so many things in California, I don't understand the apathy of the citizenry there. It is weird, isn't it? I shake my head too all the time. It's just hard. I don't understand what we're doing here. But it is not the first phenomenon I've seen in the state of California.

You know, the fact that they reinstated Newsom was like, well, really? You want more of this? Okay. But to your point, it's interesting. I actually called the president of the board. And she's an attorney. And she was lovely. And I had a very long, nice conversation with her. And she was open to my concerns. And she then set me up with other members of the board who did not understand what we were concerned about, which is not just that you're going to sanction us,

but there can be frivolous complaints. And each one of those complaints takes endless hours, endless hours. And it's scary as hell. They didn't seem to even register that I was trying to help raise their awareness about that. But the president of the board is an attorney whose dad was a urologist. She's deeply concerned about proper

practice of medicine her cause is the far outlying physicians really that both you and i would agree like need need to be contained there are people practicing medicine that you know you got to watch uh and i get that my fear though is what happens when she's out she's not going to be the president of the board of medical quality assurance forever and when she's out? She's not going to be the president of the Board of Medical Quality Assurance forever. And when she leaves, who comes in and what are they going to do with this law? They can do anything. It literally allows them to do just about anything. Go ahead.

I was going to say it's going to cost lives. It's going to cost patients' lives and it's going to cost the licenses of doctors who are no longer going to be in the profession. And we already need better doctors. They've already gotten hit by medical malpractice insurance fees that they can't afford and lawsuits up the wazoo. So it makes absolutely no sense. And the speech you're right, exactly. It's going to be used by activists to silence doctors for one reason or another. They don't need one more reason to chill doctors out of entering this profession. They need more lures. It's like when I was with my first husband,

what we saw was you can only make money in medicine these days if you go into basically ortho, potentially ophthalmology, derm, plastic surgery, or radiology, maybe pain management. That's what my ex-husband did. If you don't do one of those, you're not going to make any money. So you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get your education. You forego hundreds of thousands of dollars to get your education. You forego hundreds of thousands of dollars to get your residency or internship in your fellowship. And then you finally get out and you lose it all before you've made any of the money back because you say the wrong thing about COVID. Invariably, it's going to be about COVID or vaccines. Who would take that risk? Yeah. You got to be out of your mind. You

get all the liability, all the stress. In the primary care, which I worked in part of what I did for many, many years, you get all the liability flows up to you. All the death and dying issues fly up to you. All the insurance issues come up to you. All the family issues get funneled through you. Everything goes through you and you unpaid for 90% of it. And when you are paid, you're paid about $42 every 15 minutes. And so to your point about what your ex-husband was bringing home and reporting to, that was probably the 90s. Now they've got ortho, they've got optho, they've crushed those guys too. They've made that very, very difficult. And the only people that are actually making money in medicine, this is just, and I'm not complaining, I just want to give you the sort of the interesting phenomenon that has occurred, are people that are practicing outside of just on the free market, like the plastic

surgeons. They are cash and carry. They charge whatever they want. Concierge doctors. Well, concierge doctors are constrained because there are ethical issues. I'm really talking about surgeons, plastic surgeons primarily. And let's just take a plastic surgeon and look at what he or she makes per unit time compared to me. He or she doesn't make twice what I make. They don't make five times what I make. They make over 100 times, sometimes 1,000 times what I make per unit times. Oh, can I tell you something? It's really a bizarre, distorted system.

So when I was 27, I discovered that I had a heart murmur and I had to go get it checked out and somebody heard it. My primary care doc heard it through the stethoscope and said, you got to go get the tests at the cardiologist. So that morning I went to the cardiologist in New York City and in the afternoon I had to go to my dermatologist to make sure everything was looking the way it ought to look. And I go into the cardiologist. So that morning I went to the cardiologist in New York city. And in the afternoon I had to go to my dermatologist to make sure everything was looking the way it ought to look. And I go into the cardiologist's office. It was the crappiest, most rundown, disgusting office. He didn't even have a receptionist. He had to come to the front

and like check me in and then take me in the back. I'm like, you're the guy doing the echocardiogram. Okay, fine. But later I go to the dermatologist. It was the most beautiful, lavish salon you've ever laid eyes upon. Of course, you're thinking something is wrong with this system. Yeah, it's still like that. And so your mitral prolapse turned out okay? Everything good? I still have it, and I don't really have to do anything about it. It hasn't gotten any worse.

That's the thing you need to watch for every year. It's a nothing. Yeah, it's a zero. Nine percent of the time, it's a zero. you don't even need to take antibiotics before a dental work anymore but i'm sure you went through a phase where they told you to do that too but i did but can i say on the subject like this is one of the reasons why i appreciated you early on in the whole pandemic like asking real questions about the vaccines and so on and so forth because as somebody who does have a heart issue and whose dad died at age 45 of a sudden heart attack,

I'm very tuned into heart health. And I have three kids, including two boys. And so I don't appreciate when people try to shame doctors like you out of asking questions because there are invariably people like me all over the place, millions of us, who would like to also know those answers and don't want people like you who have a public microphone and the education to ask smart questions about these matters from being silenced out of asking them. Thank you. I agree. I felt like I was running the French underground here. I was trying to just make sense of things and broadcast quietly to the, to the enlightened.

And it's gotten the same and it's maybe a little worse right now. I mean, this unfortunate thing that happened at the NFL yesterday, which we'll talk about in a minute, um, triggered everybody. It triggered everybody. It's, it's very bizarre. And when physicians get together, I was just on a Twitter spaces where a bunch of doctors were together and we, we really only disagreed on one point and really it was just one point

and it needs to be answered. Should we be concerned about the risk, all cardiac cause risk to young males from the Moderna vaccine? Should we be worried about that? Yes or no? And if we are worried about it, what is that relative risk of the vaccine

versus COVID itself? Just somebody please answer that question. And I was talking with one doctor. He said, I think you're going to be very much more at risk from COVID. And I said, you may be right. I actually don't have an opinion. I just want the answer. I don't care who's right, but somebody's going to be right and somebody's going to be wrong.

And until we get that answer, we can't know who that is or what we should be doing. Again, we can't even render informed consent to patients. And in California, we risk our license if we bring the whole topic up. Can I tell you, it's not just the licensure boards, it's the news media too. Like I will tell you that I happen to know that ABC News spiked a big story they were working on on young cardiac deaths in relatively young teenagers, like 17, 18-year-olds. They were preparing a report and suddenly it got pulled. Why? Why would you pull a report like that? Like in the wake of COVID, in the wake of vaccines.

And I'll bet you dollars to donuts is because it was leading down a road that would have looked like they were questioning the safety of vaccines or heart health in the wake of the pandemic. Either one, they felt uncomfortable and they pulled it. Right. So it's like this happens all the time. Right. If you're if you're going anywhere near one of the sacred cows, you better be really effing careful because you're going to get not just Twitter blowback. Forget that. That's a one day thing. You're going to get potentially canceled. You could get fired. You could lose your license. It can get absolutely devastating, which is how they're chilling free speech across the board. It's not just the Twitter files and Fauci and the White House coordinating with Twitter to suppress views of Dr. Martin Kaldorff of Harvard on vaccines and so on. It goes way beyond that. And everybody who's paying attention at this point knows it.

They either care or they don't care. Yep. Yep. That's exactly right. You mentioned earlier how the, some of the regulatory officials have changed their tune. I want to read you a tweet. When did this come out on New Year's Eve or the day New Year's Eve,

Eve, I think it was. Yeah. 1230 from Rochelle Walensky, the director of the CDC. Here's her opening statement. We can't stop the spread of COVID-19. I was like, what? You just shut the world down,

insisting that zero COVID, safety Uber Alice was the only option, and you were willing to destroy millions of lives to do it, and now just coyly open a tweet with, we can't stop the spread of COVID-19, which is true. That's true. You can't stop the spread of respiratory virus. Oh, there it is. Let's see. But pre-departure testing, she's talking about China to US testing and this kind of stuff. It's all fine, but we can't stop the spread of COVID-19. That tweet jumped out at me like nothing else. This is a woman, Susan, you're laughing at it. Is this, does this surprise you?

You've, you've heard all that they've been saying for the last three years. And now all of a sudden, and by the way, we've been saying the same thing, like, Hey, these lockdowns, this is a terrible idea. Maybe localized lockdown or, you know, quarantining or whatever, but the lockdown thing does, I, you know, you, you mentioned you had an ex-husband who was a physician. My dad was an old family practitioner, and his voice is in my head all the time. People that watch this stream know it because I brought it up a few times. Just him saying, just him being confused, going, wait a minute, we had yellow fever and polio and malaria and typhus, and you're shutting down the world for a respiratory

what? Wait a minute. Yeah. A respiratory. He would have, he would have died again. It would have killed him a second time. But Susan,

you're laughing at me. You said something interesting in the airport yesterday. Go ahead. Megan first. Megan first. Yeah. No, no,

no, no. You go, Susan. I want to hear you have to say. No, you said something about hurt, like hurt immunity or something in the airport.

Like we were all just jammed at Newark and we were just walking. You said this is good because we're going to. Oh, I said, uh, I was being a little facetious to be fair, but we were in an extremely crowded airport. And, uh, and I thought, wow, this is so different. It was shoulder to shoulder, thousands of people. And I thought this, this would have created a panic a year and a half ago. People would have been beside themselves with fear unnecessarily. And now they're just going about their life. And I thought, maybe good. Maybe good.

Maybe I should, you know, risk challenge our immune systems. Let's boost up our natural immunity. Somebody might get sick here and that's not good. And if people want to wear N95, God bless them. If they have special risk, wear that N95. But the rest of us, the natural immunity is really good, particularly with Omicron. It's really good. And so this is probably a good thing if we're passing something around in this environment.

Again, I'm being hyperbolic. Please don't now tweet me that I said people should get sick with Omicron. I went out on New Year's. I'm just saying there is the fact that we're out challenging our immune system again is probably a good thing. Megan, you agree? Well, you're talking to the wrong person if you want somebody to challenge you on that, because I don't like hand sanitizer. I'm somebody who grabs onto the subway pole when I'm on the

subway without a glove on. I don't care. And then I'll come home and eat without washing that hand. You know what? I don't have any apologies to make. I think it's good for you. I think it's good to ingest dirt and bacteria in relatively limited amounts. And that's how we build up our immunities. And that's how we build up our microbiome. And that's how we build up our children's immunities. My son Thatcher, when he was like two or three, was licking the scaffolding in New York City. I turned around and said, Thatcher, good God, what are you doing? He was licking the scaffolding. But then he was like, eh say, and you keep moving. It was like, you can't get like completely paranoid. These people who are obsessed with

hand sanitizer. I never wiped a grocery. I never wore a mask unless I literally could not get into the facility I wanted to enter. I never wore a mask voluntarily. I'm just, I'm not built that way. And I think millions of Americans are just like me. And we don't want that's a risk we will take or won't take on behalf of ourselves or our children. And it's not up to the government. So, yeah, to hear Michelle Walensky finally, but without having acknowledged her mistakes that put people through hell and are still having severe consequences is galling. She's second only to Fauci in her hysteria and dishonesty. Yep. I completely agree with you. And again, that use of fear and hysteria and then the overreach of public health. I mean, we still have the LA County public health director who is a sociologist,

not a physician, not a clinician, and the head of the Philadelphia school district requiring masks again. And what is going to, what do we, the overreach of people that have no business, even with this authority, let alone the skill to understand how to apply that authority. Is there any remedies for us in our legal system? No, it's so maddening because the studies, there have been numerous studies that have come out that have shown that the mandatory masking in schools did nothing. They absolutely did nothing. And the CDC, including the CDC's own study of 90,000 kids in Atlanta, but they ignore it. If anything comes out that goes against their kids in Atlanta, but they ignore it. If anything comes out that goes against their purported misinformation, they ignore it. Then they get some BS study that's

observational or anecdotal, and they tout it on the front page of the New York Times. And we're supposed to accept that as the real science, right? Only if you're paying very close attention are you watching each of these studies. Usually most people just get their information from the paper, right? And the New York Times is the paper of record. So it's maddening because these people are being fed disinformation, but it's not by the people on Twitter who are getting banned. It's by the CDC and by the New York Times. So what can they do? I mean, some mask mandates have been struck down by the courts. It really kind of depends on whether you get a more right-leaning or a left-leaning judge. That's just the God's honest truth. So it's luck of the draw out in

California. You kind of know what you're going to get. If you really don't like it, you can do what I did, which is vote with your feet, get up and move, get to a new school district and then be a squeaky wheel. A lot of us aren't born that way. You have to, you have to be a very squeaky wheel on behalf of your children. Parents are doing it coast to coast. It's really how we got these COVID mandates lifted. You know, it was the Glenn Youngkin win in Virginia. It was the near loss by the New Jersey governor. It was that special election where the voters, it was the first chance they had to say what we think of these COVID policies and people, Democrat politicians in true blue states came within an inch of their political lives of getting killed out of office. And suddenly they

reversed everything. That's what did it. And that's what saved the Democrats in the midterm election this year as well. Very interesting. So it is really back to the ballot box. We just have to be participants in the practice of democracy. And be loud. Don't take it sitting down. Don't be such a wuss. Get up and go argue. Don't be such a wuss get up and go argue don't be such a wuss that's something that uh i that's a thought i have all the time like we we need to regain that well the word is you know the word is really the the that's necessary right now is courage it's not a word that's been on my lips for most of my life but i do feel like courage is a necessary sort of um posture that people should have. They should have the courage to stand up and speak.

They should have the courage to make noise and be a squeaky wheel and to get to the ballot box and to speak, you know, to really challenge things. It takes courage when a time when mobs rule the day. These are all mobs that hurt people. All this is mob action. And it's, you know, mobs occur when narcissism becomes a predominant personality in a population. And then scapegoating becomes a way that narcissists project themselves. It's their aggression they projected onto other people. And then they gather together and focus that aggression on a scapegoat.

That's what happened in pre-revolutionary France. That's what's happening now. Well, the other thing is to remember that if you have something to say, and it goes against the quote majority view in a room, in a school board meeting, what have you, you must remember that you speaking up as the minority member, right? The spokesperson for the minority view, you're not actually. The stats show that probably the majority in the room agrees with you, unless you're some sort of a nutcase and you're way the hell out of bounds. But if you've been hearing your POV in places you respect and whether it's a podcast or it's online or it's in books that you've been reading, have the temerity to actually express it and wait until you see what happens. What happens is me too, me too, me too.

All these people in the room are like, you know, as she said, as he said, you know what? And then before you know it, you're not alone. Like every time virtually somebody thinks that they're the only one in the room who has the opinion, they speak up and they find out to their delight. It's not true. Yeah. I, I, I think that most of us are sort of in the middle and are persuaded to join people in the middle. Maybe they weren't in the middle, but it's such a reasonable place to be. I think most people are reasonable, but I don't know. Not in California necessarily.

So let's talk about another couple of stories that are in the news. Melinda Gates sort of dropped a little bomb that it felt incomplete to me, which was this story about Epstein. But before we go to that, I want to take a little break here. We got to do our business. And of course, you're here with Megyn Kelly. You can see her show on 111 on Sirius every Eastern noon at Eastern time. Does it air at three o'clock Pacific? Excuse me, nine o'clock Pacific time, Megyn?

Noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific, yeah. And then it's also released as a podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. And the YouTube channel. Go check it all out, of course. As I keep saying, Megan needs no introduction. You know her, but I do strongly recommend that you follow her stuff. We're going to take a little break. Be right back.

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rest of the holiday season. We will get it there quickly. Use code Drew at checkout for an extra 10% off your entire order. That is GenuCell.com slash Drew. G-E-N-U-C-E-L.com slash Drew. My guest is Philip Patrick. He is a precious metal specialist, trains at University of Redlands. He has spent years as a wealth manager at Citigroup, and his current position is with Birch Gold Group. So gold has always been somewhat of a safe haven, particularly in times of great turmoil, much like our present moment, I imagine. Gold has always traditionally been a safe haven asset. Gold specifically has always been about wealth preservation, right? Gold has always held its buying power. You can look at as far back as you'd like in history and biblical times, one ounce of

gold would buy somebody 400 loaves of bread and today it does the same thing. So it's a store of value. But I would say in times like this, as you mentioned, it's particularly important when you're dealing with things like 40 year high inflation, you know, the air that's coming out of a stock market bubble, these times in particular tend to drive gold and silver up quite significantly. If things are different, the solution needs to be different as well. So I encourage everyone to get informed. And we have a lot of good information here to help your listeners. Just a reminder, I am not a financial advisor,

and I do not give out financial advice nor investing advice. Birch Gold has an A-plus rating with the Better Business Bureau, countless five-star reviews, and thousands of satisfied customers. Check them out now. Visit birchgold.com and secure your future with gold. Do it now. Welcome back, of course, for speaking with Megan Kelly. And Megan, to your last point about people being persuaded to speak up when somebody speaks sanely from the middle, I guess a Rasmussen poll came out today suggesting that most people are indeed right there. But we were going to get into the Melinda Gates sort of interview, which I found confusing. I felt as though it was obscure, and I wonder if you got more out of it than I did. So she's commenting on Bill Gates and the collapse of their marriage and suggesting that the Jeffrey

Epstein relationship, because he was friends with Epstein and he befriended him after Epstein had already pleaded guilty in the 2008 case that suggested he'd been trafficking children or he'd been engaging in prostitution with underage women. So, I mean, it's basically statutory rape. In any event, weird thing to, you know, weird kind of guy to befriend. That's exactly what Prince Andrew is accused of doing. And this has been deeply problematic in his own life. But Bill Gates, no problem, I guess.

In any event, she mentioned it as something she had a severe problem with. And like that it was one of the factors that led to the divorce, which is kind of bizarre to me. Like, wait a minute. That happened a long time ago. You knew about it when it happened. Either it was a deal breaker or it wasn't. What do you mean it was just one of the many factors? Are you trying to say that he trafficked girls, that he fooled around with young girls when he was knowing Jeffrey Epstein at Jeffrey Epstein's place where he stayed multiple times? Because if that's what you're trying to say, you must say that explicitly because you are also saying you're still in a

business relationship with him and promoting all these charities. And if Bill Gates is guilty of doing that stuff, I don't want anything to do with his charity or with you if you're running one. So it's like, let's get explicit. If you're just dropping that to say he's irritating, you could make the case it's kind of irresponsible of her. Yes. Yes. That's, that's exactly how I experienced it.

I was like, what are you saying? Melinda? It's like, all right, what you're insinuating, but you're not saying she also mentioned how, uh,

Bill Gates found Epstein quote intriguing, I think was the word she used. And that, that, and I said, she couldn't understand why he would be intriguing. And, and so what,

there was a, why exactly? It was an email. Yeah, go ahead. The report suggests that there was an email from 2011 in which he admitted that he found Epstein's lifestyle very different and kind of intriguing. And a spokesperson for him later came out and said, oh, he was only referring to the decor of the Epstein residence. That's laughable.

That is laughable. Okay, we'll take'll take about their word but that is hysterical uh but yeah the and again is melinda saying that she didn't want him around disgusting people like that or was she there was so much more packed into that and i agree with you just either don't say it or let's get specific about what the problem is here because yes i'll be clear and say i want to make clear on behalf of my family about the father of my children that i am not suggesting he peddled uh in the same arena and criminality that jeffrey epstein did in no way do i mean to suggest that he had sex with underage girls without their permission or that he exploited them

or trafficked them in any way. I just didn't like the friendship because this guy had this conviction and I thought good judgment would dictate one not befriend such a person. That's what she could, right? Like dangling it out there is a little like, wait, what?

Yeah. Melinda, get a transcript of exactly what Megan just said and tell us that and I'll be fine. If that's the truth, we'll be fine with that because that's exactly what I was hoping for. But the way she left it, I was left shaking my head going, oh, this is really problematic. But I don't see, by the way. The reports about him have been bad.

I mean, they've been very bad. Like, obviously, this guy is like, he's like this geek who grew up and made billions and then wanted to sort of sow the oats he never got to when he was this nerdy guy. But there's, you know, he obviously cheated on her multiple times, according to the reports. I mean, he wouldn't say explicitly when he was asked by Savannah Guthrie on the Today Show how many times, how recently, he wants us to believe he had one affair 20 years ago. Sure, sure he did. I mean, come on. There's been all sorts of reports about his debauchery, which you could say is the normal behavior of a man, but not really a married man with the responsibilities that he has. And it's not consistent with his public image either.

I have, yeah, I'm going to push back on you saying normal behavior of a man, a man's motivational system may be set up in such a way that that's sort of in place. But if you've committed yourself in front of God and everybody, uh, no, your time to sow the oats was when you were not married. And if you didn't bad on you and you, you don't get to then do it again and destroy families and relationships and the social contract you have in a marriage. I have no patience for that whatsoever. I got to ask you something. So end it. Can I ask you a question? Can I ask you a question?

Yeah. So we talked about this on my show today, but I didn't have an expert opinion. And I do feel somewhat conflicted talking about it because I don't I understand people have affairs. People are in unhappy marriages and make bad decisions. I get it, you know, but we covered the Amy Robach TJ Holmes affair on GMA. These co-anchors who shared the third hour of GMA together, both married to other people, both with children. His are young. Hers are older.

Hers babysat for his. The two of them double dating with the spouse while they were married like you know they're having an affair and they're allegedly double dating like with the affair partner it's just yeah okay so but i get failings of the human heart and you know as my therapist always says to me people are complicated right so i'm not gonna judge yes falling out of love whatever and all that and what they did however now what they've done is they've gone off to Miami and Atlanta. And I guarantee you, Drew, I guarantee you, because I know how the media works. No one's following Amy Robach anywhere. No, they're not. But somehow she popped up in two different paparazzi

snaps kissing this guy, TJ Holmes, her co-anchor. They're kissing, they're canoodling, they're lovey-lovey. Meanwhile, they just canoodling they're lovey lovey meanwhile they're not they just filed for divorce in december after the daily mail in the new york post outed them right they said they're not long divorced now they're not long separated they just got outed now suddenly they filed for divorce and within a second they're out there kissing on camera and they've got children his he andrew sh her husband, and the adult boys that they have posted a picture of them looking sad, depressed over the Christmas holiday. That was my take on their appearance. Yeah.

And she's out there kissing her affair partner for the cameras. Guarantee you a setup by her. Somehow she thought this was going to help her. We're going to lean into it. You know, like, yes, yes, we're in love. Therefore, it's all forgivable. And not showing her pictures of his very young children at home who now don't have a dad in the home. Because I just, the whole thing makes me uncomfortable.

If I were running ABC News, I would not give them their jobs back. I would not fire them, but I would not put them back in their anchor roles at ABC. But you talk about human nature and what's natural. What do you make of it? All right. So you've set that up in ways that I'm deeply conflicted on multiple fronts. I am with your therapist that we're not there. We don't know what's going on. People are complicated. Everyone has to make their own choices and

maybe they've all agreed. I don't know. But let me now as a human, as me speak, and to me, I am disgusted. I am disgusted that people would attack their family like this, that they would destroy families, that they literally are attacking their children when they allow this to go on. It's an attack on the children. And if, by the way, they had a weakness and things went whatever and the marriages weren't strong

and nobody paid it, there was a symptom of some real trouble and they got back in the therapist's office and said, let's try to save this family. Let's try to get it back. Okay, I mean, that'd be okay. But then to do this, it speaks of a complete lack of empathy for the people that those two individuals

are supposed to love the most. The original affair was an attack on the family and the continued acting out in public without understanding the impact it was going to have on the children is more of the same. And I personally, look, they may be very good people. God bless them. I am not saying I'm telling them how to live their life, but I am disgusted. And I've always been disgusted. I was disgusted when Bill Clinton was doing his thing. I thought, what an attack on Chelsea publicly.

It was an attack on Hillary. This damages the people you're supposed to love. If you have a problem, take care of the problem. You're a sex addict, take care of the problem. If you didn't sow your oats when you were 20, when you should have, bad on you. Too bad. It goes back to the question you asked a half an hour ago about when did we become such, what did you call us? I don't want to use the wrong word.

When did we become such- Wusses. Wusses. That was the word you used. I don't want to use the wrong word here. We became such wusses and not willing to stand up for our commitments. Here's my follow-up. Where is the shame?

Yeah. Right? Because my own Catholic belief is human beings sin. Narcissists don't experience shame. Narcissists are shame avoidant. Everybody does, but there should be some shame attached to it, especially when there are little ones involved. There should not be the parading of the sin and the sinners like, yeah,

nailed it. You know, like in front of the paparazzi in the, even if, even if it wasn't a setup, how do you go out in public and canoodle and kiss with your little ones hurting at home over your behavior, at least have the decency to be ashamed of it. Yeah. Well, a shame is a different, yeah, to have shame. So, so it's very much yeah was there applause i just heard uh yes there it's very much what what i was just talking about so i don't know these two people but i'm going to say in cases like this when people behave like this those are sort of narcissistic traits and in the the main liability of narcissism is, A, shame avoidant. They're like Teflon when it comes to shame.

Shame flies right off them, and then they project it out onto other people. They're bad, not me. It's all out there. Shame avoidant, number one. Number two, they lose capacity to appreciate the contents of other people's mind. So they are non-empathic. So shame avoidant, non-empathic, and then envious. Envy is a very prominent sort of experience for a narcissist. And envy is

different than jealousy. Jealousy is, hey, Megan has a very successful podcast. Oh, I want to have one like that too. God bless her, but I'm going to try to compete her or whatever. No, envy is Megan has a successful podcast. I have to destroy her. I try to compete her or whatever. No. Envy is Megan has a successful podcast. I have to destroy her. I have to bring her down to my level. Envy, you talked about religious injunctions. Envy is always in every religious text as the number one thing to be avoided because it is so destructive. And it is the source of, back to what I mentioned a few minutes ago, the scapegoating impulse.

They gather together with their envy, narcissist, and acted out on the one. Oh, that is so interesting. Boy, that is a light bulb moment because I've been looking at this like, I don't understand. When they first got outed, I did not think that they could continue on in these roles because I just think what Morning TV is about is sort of like, eee, smiles, everything's perfect, we're the perfect little happy anchors. And this goes directly contrary to that, right? So I didn't see that happening. And then it came out that he'd been fishing off the company pier with God knows how many ABCers.

So that's deeply problematic. Oh, really? And that's when ABC pulled them and started an investigation. Yeah, at least two former producers have gone on the record, one with name, one without, if I'm not mistaken, and said, me too.

I thought I was in love with him. I had a long time affair with him while he was married to this poor woman who he just filed for divorce from with a young child being babysat by Amy Robach's kids.

And in any event, then they suspended him and did an investigation. Okay, fine, whatever. They're going to work it out. It's their personal business. The legal matter is kind of interesting to me.

But now I see this is like a PR strategy that says something about their morals about who they are as human beings like you've got your kids at home hurting you've got your spouse even if you can't stand your spouse now at this point which as far as i know there's no indication of that she took some european vacation with her spouse and her children as recently as this summer they were posting pictures but okay let's say you've grown to hate him. How can you stick the knife in like that publicly? It takes a different kind of person.

And frankly, I hate the term, but it's kind of triggering because that's my industry. That's news. Abby's here with me and my assistant. She's laughing. Yes, it's a disgusting, dirty industry. And I feel like it attracts people who are lacking shame and lacking this ability to be an empath. And it's actually kind of part of the larger problem that we all talk about all the time, which is like, what's wrong with the news business? 100%.

It does attract people. And each of us, we live in a time of, I watched this narcissistic trend happen. I was working at a psychiatric hospital in the early 80s. And when I first got there, the access to the personality disorders were all of them. They were all showing up every day. And then right by the end of the 80s, it all switched to what's called cluster B, which are the narcissistic disorders. And now you don't see anything but. So literally all of us are sort of, yeah, literally all of us have some narcissistic qualities. Cluster B.

That's borderline sociopath, narcissist, and sort of other sociopathic stuff. Histrionic is in there. And by the way, histrionic we didn't use to see much of. Now magically the entire American public became histrionic in the last couple of years, but whatever. And so we're all kind of cluster B-ish these days. And that's just for whatever reason that's the sort of you know ebb and flow of personality structures in human beings but yes certain things to be in front of a camera and stuff like you and I are doing yeah it brings that liability

you got to have some of that stuff but having some of it can be healthy and I'm not saying you and I are healthy necessarily I'm just saying it can't be healthy but if it goes too far where you lose where you lose empathy and you lose and you acting out, and all those things we've discussed, that's where it becomes a problem. See, you know, by the way— Here's why you and I don't have to worry. Go ahead. Here's why Susan doesn't have to worry and why Doug doesn't have to worry. It's because we came into media as a second career.

You know, I was a successful lawyer. You were a successful doctor. That's a different situation. It's a different situation. It's a different kind of person. Megan, Megan, I actually have published data to support that opinion. I actually, I'm the only, I have the only published data on narcissism on earth. And here's what it was because I, on the radio every night, and I'm gonna let you go in just a couple minutes, we'll probably end up wrapping up with one more topic. But I was able

to issue, I gave personality questionnaires to, there's the book that came out of it. We also published a paper in the Journal of Personality and something else. And we were able to show that people that were in the media had much more narcissism than average. And we actually were able to break down the kinds of narcissistic stuff that was there. And just, I'll give you the shorthand, which was that if you were a cellist and you were interested in performing around the world, or you were a newscaster, we're interested in doing a good job as a journalist, or you were a doctor, a lawyer, and we're using media to sort of make a difference.

Our narcissism was the lowest on the scale the highest narcissism can you guess where there you are your point is exactly what point it made you know where the highest narcissism was it was a very specific group uh because you're onto this i don't know if you would come up with it well they were in they were all over the place a bit it was reality show stars reality show participants because they go they go into these projects because, hey, it's me. It's nothing else. I don't have a skill. I don't have a career. It's just me. It's just me. And those guys were way up there on our scale. It's Kim Kardashian. I've said before, her vanity is what I find so abhorrent about her. That's what's such a

turnoff about her. Disgusting, ever on display, vanity at every turn. Try doing something of substance, not your fake law degree. Yeah. Yes, ma'am. And so there it was. And by the way, how empty and painful it must be to be in this mishegas in media and have no purpose. You and I have a purpose. We're trying to do something here and it makes it meaningful. It's an instrument. It's a tool we use to get out there and make a difference and stuff. And I, and as you said, the other thing I've noticed with people that sort of treat the public well versus not, if you've had a real job, like you had, I've had, Adam has had, you're grateful to be able to do this stuff. It's really interesting and creative and who knew we'd be doing stuff like this when we started our careers? So it's something you're grateful for. Last question before I let you go.

You can tell when someone's a news actress or a news actor, like a frustrated wannabe on television person only. Sorry, go ahead. Yes, you can. Kevin McCarthy, what's your prediction? I have no idea. It went terribly for him today. And Chad Pergram, who works at Fox News, who I really respect, who knows everything about Capitol Hill, he was tweeting something to the effect of, we may not have Speaker McCarthy. I mean, it may not happen. He may not be able to pull this out. Who would it be? Honestly, I have no idea.

And the smartest people I know have no idea either, which is very rattling. Then no, you really don't know. I heard weird rumors of jim jordan is that is that even a possibility is that realistic somebody mean that i would be surprised i don't think the more moderate republicans would support him i really don't like that's this is the problem when they bring those the right wing into the flank they lose the the more moderates and when they get the moderates they lose the right wing um i guess if i had to put money on it i'd still put it on mccarthy because he's kind of trumpy, but not, you know, less not Trumpy enough to maintain the moderates and a little Trumpy.

I have no idea, though. Capitol Hill is such a mess. I'm more focused on this George Santos and how they're going to get this serial liar out of this office while still keeping the R in that newly Republican district. What a nightmare. I mean, that guy and he and he seems again sort of unapologetic like oh everyone everyone uh pads their their resume i don't know you i don't he said his mother died on 9-11 the facts he said his mother died on 9-11 then he said she died in 2016 i would love to interview this guy so which was it did she die in 9-11 did she live did you see her between 2001 and 2015 did you do anything to correct the record when did you say that she died on 9-11? Did she live? Did you see her between 2001 and 2015? Did you do anything to correct the record? When did you say that she died in 9-11?

Why did you say such a thing? Did your grandparents really die in the Holocaust? You're only like 34 years old. How is that possible? Really? Does the math add up? What happened? Did they not die in the Holocaust?

Why would you make, why didn't you, why'd you say you go to Horace Mann when you didn't go to Horace Mann? Why'd you say you went to this university when you didn't go there? Doing business with Citibank is not the same thing as working for Citibank. You understand that. If you don't understand that, how do you expect the public to vote for you? You're a serial fabulous. Get out.

Everybody, you should question literally everything in the media the way Megan just did. Everything. Every story you read, every tweet you read, that kind of questioning should scroll through your head immediately because most of what we are exposed to cannot withstand that scrutiny. Megan, I appreciate you so much. Thank you for being here.

I promise I'd get you out right now. So let me do that. And once I let you go, I'll give them all the particulars where to find you and stuff. So appreciate it and have a great day. It was a pleasure. All the best. Love you. And again, you can watch her YouTube channel.

You can also find her on SiriusXM. Let me get all the specifics. Oh my God, I love her. Yeah, she's great. And now you know why Adam loves her too. Yeah, I know. The Megyn find her on SiriusXM. Let me get all the specifics. Oh my God, I love her. Yeah, she's great. And now you know why Adam loves her too. Yeah, I know. The Megyn Kelly Show, SiriusXM. We're all in love with her now.

Triumph, Channel 111, weekdays, noon Eastern, 9 Pacific. And again, the YouTube channel is Megyn Kelly, M-E-G-Y-N Kelly. And you can follow her on Twitter, which you of course should. And by the way, whether you agree with her or not, just admire her thinking and her willingness to put herself out there with that. At Megan Kelly, MEGY. And her willingness to come on the show. And her willingness to talk to us, which is very nice of her. So let me, I decided, oh yeah, there we go.

Are you going to take some calls on Twitter spaces today? I can. I decided during the show I would, well, let me see if somebody has questions about it. I think you should. Okay, let me see. I think we've had a really, it's been a very tragic 24 hours. Yes, awful. And I think we need to address our fans in the new year and appreciate the backup force we had during our little Twitter storm.

But also just say hi. All right, I will do it. This is Sam. I will add him as a speaker here. And you can just come on in and ask your question, whatever it might be. And of course, remember, everyone, you have to mute that microphone in the lower left-hand corner.

I went on a Twitter space today. You have to unmute. You have to punch in the red probably took him by surprise red line through it there you are sam is it sam hey hey yep hey hey uh so i'm just looking at a paper here that uh so there's about uh like maybe one of these uh uh commodio cordis events every year in like ncaa college football games and it's like 71 000 players every year um where is that paper published uh sage pub uh it's called fatalities in high school and college football players by barry p i would strongly question that data because football is the least likely sport to cause commotio, right? Commotio is caused by a sudden wrap on the chest, baseball, elbows in soccer. I've seen both of those. Never seen football in spite of witnessing and playing and watching my kids lower helmet, have helmets lowered into their chest a hundred thousand times it's because it's,

it's not that kind of wrapping. It's, it's, it's an explosive backwards and it doesn't have that quality to it. Like dropping a fist on the chest, which we know does the same thing. That's why, that's why back in the day, if you remember, uh, like look at the, the exorcist, when they were trying to resuscitate somebody, that movie. They pound their chest really hard like that with a wrap because that does alter the electrical activity of the heart. But so hard for me to imagine. It's an extremely rare event.

It must be all derivation. I mean, mostly when people die on a football field, it's because of dehydration and electrolyte imbalance and taking some substance or supplement or something that causing these excessive fluid balance problems. And that's what causes the arrhythmia. It's not commodio. That's extremely rare. Yeah. I think that's true. I think they're saying it's two every 10 years. Cases in all football played throughout the US?

Yeah. That could be. That could be. Two every 10 years sort of makes sense. Does this image, does this describe what you're talking about? I found this, someone was talking about it on Twitter. Yeah. Yes, that's it. And you notice how it's, and it's exactly the electrocardiogram on the bottom

is exactly what happens. It, it hits right on the repolarization phase and the heart's very vulnerable then. And pow, that's it. And it has to hit with this exact, that is different than the contusion of the heart that can occur from really serious blunt trauma, like a, like a steering wheel in your chest. That's a very different thing. This is a wrap on the chest in your chest that's a very different thing this is a wrap on the chest and you see it's a fist or elbow right go scroll up a little bit and he shows all the different types on a shoulder uh baseball uh and what's the very top one what is

on the top one no shoulders don't do this hockey hockey pucks do it yeah that's what does you notice how in that in that diagram they don't have football they don't have a helmet it just it just doesn't really do it they're also showing a skinny little baseball player it is nine years old yeah it's it's it's very odd so it makes me wonder while this is certainly something that could and let's look the fact that we have to stop and go oh my god this is a tragedy we We feel so sorry for him and his family and his teammates. It just, it just, it's, it's, it takes my breath away. It's so awful.

That goes without saying, everybody, it's a horrible, tragic event. We're trying to make sense of this. People saw it and were traumatized by it. We're trying to diminish people, people's trauma. And we're also trying to learn from it so we can prevent this from happening again. That's why we're discussing it. So we're not discussing him. We're discussing cases like this, that this particular tragedy directs our attention to these situations. So the question, Sam, that really has to come up is, could anything have predisposed him to

more likely develop this, which is kind of an interesting question. And by the way, the Commodio I've seen, you don't stand up afterwards. He stood up and took a couple of steps. Now, people keep saying that is consistent with Commodio. I'm going to challenge those people and say, you've probably never seen it. Because when you see it, they go flaccid instantly, instantly, as soon as it happens. Now, maybe, go ahead sam i only saw i only saw one on twitter where it was a hockey puck and he just

he maybe took a couple skates and then fell over okay interesting well that was that was the only thing i've seen that's been supporting it i also noticed that he got hit and then he tackled the guy so then he got up after he tackled him so it wasn't like right when he got hit because he actually tackled him back right and then he stood up yep and it was and by the way it was a sort of head and shoulder it was the usual sort of thing i don't know it's really it's certainly possible but it also leaves open the possibility that he had some sort of predisposing thing there i mean why would this be the only case in the history of the nfl if this is such a common thing?

Yeah, it's like in the NFL, there's only 850 players. That's like a one in a thousand year event. Right. Let's hope so. Let's hope so. Let's hope we don't see any more for the next thousand years. I have been worried about the athlete deaths and the excess deaths overall that are being unexplained in this country. And it should be an emergency, an emergency that we answer the question, what is this? It could be COVID.

I'm totally prepared that COVID could be the culprit. It could be causing long-term problems that we haven't really studied yet, and now they're coming out. Answer that question. Or is it COVID plus the vaccine? Or is it the vaccine? In the meantime, people are just fishing around, speculating all over the place. It's all speculation at this point.

We have no idea. We certainly have no idea what happened to this case. We weren't there. We don't know exactly what's going on. But we have no idea what's causing the athlete deaths, what's causing the all-cause mortality. And the thing that's disturbing to me and why I use the word disturbing in my tweet, it should be an emergency to go answer that question. Why are we not rushing to answer that question right now? You know, Sam, it's so troubling to me. I'm so troubled by that.

No? You would think that they would be able to look look at it and i just i don't see them looking at it they are not there i think now so so then here goes everybody's trying to explain why they're not looking at it are they not looking at it because they're afraid it could be the vaccine are they not looking at because they know it's the vaccine or none of the above they just aren't looking at it because everyone's afraid in medicine to do anything these days. Yeah, but I think that a public figure in an incident like this is

the one who's going to bring it out, like make us all think about it. Even if it wasn't him, it's making us think about it. It's always an event. It's always a case. It was just some kid on a soccer field. Nothing. Nobody's going to pay attention to it, but because it happened in front of all of us in a playoff game in such a radical way, we're all finally looking at this seriously.

So terrible. And we owe it to our children to ask questions. I'm so, so, so disturbed. I mean, are they assuming that other people are looking at it and they're just saying, I would have heard about it by now if like like i don't know i don't know i i think i'm i'm seeing unfortunately i'm seeing people the the sort of the clinical and the medical people sort of already sort of landing in these two camps where they're pulling out all kinds of data about the vaccine they're they're pulling out all kinds of data about covid versus you know covid being worse the vaccine and they're just out all kinds of data about the vaccine, or they're pulling out all kinds of data about COVID being worse than the vaccine,

and they're just sort of staying with that literature. And that literature does not answer the question, what's in the all-cause mortality? Why the athletes? Just got to answer that question. And if it is both, let's say, how do we establish the risk-reward for a given kid at a different age group? And by the way, how do we know whether to bring this guy back to play in the NFL? If we don't

know what this is, it's just terrible for him. But I don't know, Sam, any last questions? I'm just so disturbed. I'm really disturbed. I have a question. Thanks for having me on. Thanks, Sam. Appreciate it. What's up, Susan? Is there a way to test the players? Yes, here's the problem. Before they go out to test the players? Yes. Yes, here's the problem. Yes, here's the problem. Before they go out to play, like if they've been vaccinated in the last month or so. Or had COVID.

Or they've had COVID. Or had COVID. Or none of the above. Or none of the above. Susan, you're thinking about it exactly correctly. So here's what you can do. You can go do MRIs of all the athletes' hearts. Every NFL team, I think, has an MRI scanner now.

They just go do all their hearts. Here's the problem. The findings of scarring, which is this post-gadolinium enhancement of the heart, the finding is very nonspecific. It can get easily missed if it's small, and it can be easily nothing when it's positive. So being positive could be a false, could be a red herring. So what do we do with that? Are we going to be taking people off out of their NFL careers because of a finding that- Well, it would be the same if you did an

MRI of their head. It would be, oh, you've had too many concussions. You can't play anymore. You can't see that. No, but I mean, football's always been like this. It's like they go out there, they play football knowing that they may not make it out alive that's well that's a different now you're talking about the ethics of playing football which is right i'm not even going to go there which is but but still like we need to help them understand that they could take care of their health and maybe not have this problem i'm sure a lot of those players are nervous about it now especially the younger ones you know i mean that guy was just he was very fit and he was he seemed strong so sad and for him to get potched like that is just so weird to get what potched like in the chest just potched that's just my word it just and to just go down like that is just insane. Let me bring an athlete up here. This is Matt.

Matt, I tried to get you up here. Are you there? You didn't respond. Can you raise your hand again? I lost you somewhere in there. They didn't like my word, potched. There he is. Matt, would you like to come up here and speak?

I'm inviting him to speak. I thought he had a request up, but I did not see that. I'm sorry i'm looking through my list here because i've got a lot of you guys that want to come up i apologize um yeah doc can you hear me yeah i got you matt so thank you for listening any thoughts on this scary yeah right yep i think we're seeing that trickle-down effect of what you guys were just speaking on earlier of we just witnessed we all just watched this at the same time same moment and that same you know not sickness but it feels sick it feels sick right you feel sick inside yeah terrified terrified and and the

terror that again i think my profession has an obligation then to go in and go hey this is what these things are let's understand it we know what these are we're going to find and but here's here's where we're deficient we can't say we're going to look into this and we're going to figure out what it was so we can reduce the risk going forward that should be our hue and cry that should be our rallying cry right now and you you were a wwe wrestler right yes sir yeah and so you guys take these kinds of hits all the time. Are you aware of anybody sort of dropping out in the ring or anything or immediately afterwards? No.

I'm also friends with our mutual friend, Tyrus. And I've done your show one other time. Yeah. And you're very passionate also about concussions. And that's something that our business has come a full circle around on. Where now when wrestlers are training, Doc, they wear helmets when they first get in that ring for the first time. Because when you're learning how to what's called bump, which is say you punch me and

I fall on the mat perfectly, right? That's called back bump. And what it does is it rattles your brain around a little bit in your head. And you've got to eventually build up the the callousness in your back and neck and things like that after doing it for so many times to where you lessen the chances of it but it's still when you think about it quite the risk oh yeah at 20 plus if we're being honest of registered concussions and my brain will be donated to Science Sports Legacy Institute when I pass. They can do more research on this.

But thank you for what you and both Megan are talking about right now, because this is a very important situation. Everyone in America all watched it. Yeah. Yeah. And we need to kind of come together. Thanks, Matt. Rather than splinter apart around it and accuse everybody of it. Name calling because you say something and they don't agree with it.

Here is Sabine who we've, I don't know if Sabine's been on this particular show, but I've spoken to her before on, she's a gastroenterologist. Sabine, how are you? I'm doing great. Thank you for having me. First of all, great show. I love the fact that Megan mentioned the microbiome.

Absolutely, immunity is built. And so I just wanted to kind of, I stood up because you have Alon Steinberg is in the crowd and I know he's not, he's probably not raising his hand, but you probably want to talk to him as a cardiologist

on this topic. I would love to. Is he in there as, What is he in here as? He's listening. He's as a listener. Alan, please request to come up if you wouldn't mind. I would love to talk to a cardiologist and sort of get into this. Oh, and Joanna's here too. I got to get Joanna up here.

You guys all got to request. All right, Sabine, you have anything to say before I bring those guys up? Thank you for your courage for talking about this and asking questions. And I can't believe every doctor in the country is not wanting to know about what happened to this kid. So hopefully we can get some answers. Thanks, Sabine. Appreciate it. I am not seeing Alan Steinberg here.

I am seeing Joanna. And I'm going to ask you, Joanna, to come up and speak with us if you don't mind. Chabria, I see you there as well, but I'm trying to find Alan Steinberg. And please raise your hand, my friend. I can't find you just by scrolling through the list here. And Joanna, if you'd come up and just unmute yourself. And good to have you here. And I know you were in the Twitter spaces a few minutes ago talking about this issue. Did you take anything of note away from that conversation? I mean, they had tremendous insights. We had cardiologists, electrophysiologists, I myself for your audience, I'm an intensivist and an anesthesiologist, but I work in the cardiovascular ICU and value of a differential diagnosis. Yeah.

Um, and, and kind of underscoring the fact that we, we have very limited information right now. Yeah. Um, and, and kind of admitting our own,

our own limitations, um, amidst all of this. I, I find it, I find it odd, the rush to commotio. I,

it's, it's such a rare thing for football. I mean, why rush to that? Just any, why rush to commotio? It's such a rare thing for football. I mean, why rush to that? Why rush to that as opposed to anything? Because it's all on the table for us. We have no objective data, so we don't have any idea what's going on. That's right. Yeah. And I think not only was that consideration brought up, because I think that immediately that's what everybody kind of jumped to. But then it sounds as though, and this is, I guess, noted from his family, there was a second arrest event while he was in the hospital. Which perhaps, when we think again about a differential diagnosis, may point away instead from the commotio.

I've actually been involved with Camo show. It's a rare thing. I've seen it from baseball. I've seen it from baseball. I've seen it from an elbow. Hockey pucks can do it. It's rare for football to do it. It just doesn't have the same quality that would cause it.

But in my experience, they are flaccid immediately, though somebody just told me he saw a video of somebody take two skates after a hockey puck hit him. But in my experience, they're flaccid immediately and they come right back. They come right back after you shock them. Now, if you are too long without a shock, perhaps his anoxic brain injury became irreversible, or he had anoxic injury to the myocardium itself. So you've got to worry that the heart was actually damaged by the amount of time that he might have been fibrillating. And thereby, the second code may be more related to myocardial injury than to whatever the underlying source was. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. I think that that's a really valuable consideration. And, you know, it may be that that is the case. Um, what you said about commotio, um, Cordis, the fact that they come back right away, I know that, um, they, they did do chest compressions for a period of about nine minutes from the sounds of it. Um, but they also had, uh, an AED and I don't know how soon they were able to access that and put that on him. We don't know that's, we don't know. And it's able to access that and put that on him. That's we don't know.

That's we don't know. And it's, it's, by the way, it's not uncommon, but by the way, it's not, I mean, if it's not commotio and you do get a,

a rhythm back, it doesn't mean you're going to get a pulse back. Right. And so you still may be doing CPR while you try to restore blood pressure and stuff. So who knows what was going on there? We just have no idea. And,

and again, it's important just for us to try to reduce everybody's anxiety, to know that these things are manageable. We do know what these things are. We're trying to answer the questions. Do you agree with me that we should be in a hurry to try to answer questions about whether there are any underlying or predisposing conditions in athletes now that are causing this? Don't you think that should be answered rather than people saying it's just not happening? Yeah. You know, I think especially in our, in our high risk populations, you know, for, for trauma, I mean, these guys are big guys and it's like, it's like, you know, cars hitting each other on the football field and, and, and we, we've got to, we've got to really do our due diligence to make sure that we are protecting them. And I would love, I don't know if, you know, in the last panel, there was a physician who had worked in sports medicine with some professional athletes.

And the workup sounds like it really does vary from team to team. So, you know, it may be non-standard in a patient who's, you know, in their 20s and 30s to do things like an EKG or an echocardiogram where you basically take a look at a patient's heart using ultrasound technology. But that may be something that has a much higher utility, you know, in these guys where there's much higher risk for trauma. Yeah, Joanna, I did some of these clearances over the years and we were always looking for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. That's always what we were looking for. I mean, that's the big athletic problem historically. We weren't looking for myocarditis. We were looking for myocardial scarring. It wouldn't even have occurred to us, frankly, unless they had some history of some crazy virus

that made you think about that. So the question now before us is, should everyone on a football field be getting an MRI? And that's a very nonspecific, nonsensitive way of detecting history of myocarditis. Right, yeah. And just as far as cardiac MRI goes, looking for scar tissue specifically may be what they're trying to decipher. But when we think about what actually you know, stratifying them into these populations for who's high or who's low risk.

But just by nature of being on the field, I mean, there is there is tremendous potential for for damage. And I I wonder how this is going to change, or if it will change, perhaps it won't change anything on the football field as far as protective measures go, or even accessibility to some of these technologies. Because I don't know how long it took them to get all the medical equipment on, but to my understanding, this was the first time in history, again, to my understanding that an ambulance actually came on the field. Yeah, I have the, my career has been strange and far-reaching or nefarious or something. I, in addition to having been peripherally related to a

commotio episode, I had to resuscitate a 15-year-old on the field of a high school football team with an epidural bleed in his brain. And believe me, an ambulance, I was trying to get a helicopter at the time. And you're not going to believe this story. So epidural bleed is massive bleeding into the brain. It's usually, it's like a subarachnoid hemorrhage. It usually kills people very quickly. And this kid was seizing and not breathing and had pinned pupils and no doll's eyes and all the stuff that you and i look for joanna and i started resuscitating him and uh and i'm just thinking we gotta have a helicopter

we gotta get this kid out of here i knew there was an emergency room at the bottom of the hill and i could literally hear the ambulance coming it was had to go through a a i'm getting traumatized thinking about this was going through a a neighborhood with speed bumps. I can hear, and I'm like, my God, we got to get this kid out of here. But for the grace of God, the ambulance got there. The director of the ER down the hill came running up, bagged the kid, put him in the ambulance, called ahead, got a neurosurgical suite up. That kid was back in chemistry class in three months. And at the time, his dad was standing over me as I was resuscitating him going, he's going to be okay, right? He's going to be okay. And I just kept thinking to

myself, the best this is going to be is going to be in a wheelchair, nonverbal. That's about as good as this is going to ever be. And lo and behold, things can go well when you get immediately onto the care. He's fine now. He's perfectly fine now. And one of the things that jumped out at me was you got to have airway management on a football field. You need to be able to intubate people right away. I was having to breathe for him and all this stuff, and it kind of worked. And interestingly, I hyperventilated him, so I was able to bring his CNS pressure down a little bit.

I can actually see his posturing reduce as I hyperventilated him. But Joanna, there's my experience, kind of hair raising, right? I know. It was like PTSD watching this for both of us because I was there too, photographing the thing and it happened so fast. Yeah. It's crazy. But it was different. It was different.

He holds his head, walks around, you know, and then boom, down after, you know, complaining, complaining, stumbling, and then boom down. That's, that's the head. That's the head. This was not that this was stood up, walked, and then bow, just fell backwards, which is what we've been seeing a lot of. I don't know if you've watched the video of Heather McDonald falling on stage, watch what happened to Bob Saget, a lot of this sort of sudden dropping, which maybe it's just audit dysautonomia fromonomia from COVID or something.

This stuff needs to be answered. Yeah, you know, and again, I think it really does come down to the ideology, like what actually is happening. I'm a huge Bills fan. I'm actually from Buffalo, New York. Oh, no. Yeah, and I live out here in New York City, but I was actually at a Bills bar yesterday watching the game like a good, faithful fan. But I turned and didn't see the actual impact initially, but it looked almost more like a potential head injury. And that in itself can cause arrhythmias and arrest events. That's right. And and the reality is, you know, we don't have we don't have any information, you know, about what what the heck happened to this poor man. And and when I was thinking about it on my way home, you know, of course, commotion cordis came up, but also thinking about things like cardiac tamponade,

any type of structural. Well, yeah, right. It could be. Look, we just had a soccer journalist drop dead of an aortic dissection in his 30s. Unheard of. Unheard of without takeosus. And why would he have takeosus and not know it? I mean, this is like crazy stuff happening that needs to be explained.

And by the way, Caleb just played the video of Heather McDonald falling on stage and you play it again. And you tell me everybody, if that doesn't look like exactly what you saw this kid do on the football field, take a couple of steps and then backwards step back. That's exactly what happened to this tragedy on the field. So I don't know. Something is going on here. I've never seen anything like all this stuff.

It's sort of a signal that needs to be explained. Wouldn't you agree, Joanna? Yeah, no, I absolutely do. And I think that it does hit close to home as a member of, you know, my community as a Buffalo Bill, you know, I really do pray for, yeah, for him and his whole family. You know, you know, too, let's talk about this. You know, too, how treacherous this particular window is in anoxic encephalopathy. The next few days, the next few days will tell. Yeah. And there was a lot of, there was a lot of question about why he was still intubated in, in, um, the, the previous,

um, uh, podcast that I was involved with. Um, and people have to realize, you know, he was, he was down meaning, you know, he was requiring CPR for a period of nine minutes. And it sounds as though he was intubated in the field, but we really depend on high-quality CPR to maintain perfusion to distal organs. Like the brain. Yep, that's exactly right. And in addition to that, we require oxygen and ventilation. And normally, we will bag mask ventilate in the absence of a secure airway or an insecure airway, you know, like an LNA or, but, um, you know, it, it, uh,

it's really important in prognosticating, um, you know, what his outcome will be because he may make, uh, you know, God willing, he'll make a full recovery. But really, it's that high-quality CPR. He could be on a ventilator for a week with a hypoxic encephalopathy. It could easily happen. And for me, really, the thing that tells me whether someone's likely to really recover from a hypoxic injury is whether he's seizing. They've told us that he put him to sleep and I hope that's just to make him comfortable in the ventilator. But if he's seizing, then it gets, it gets into a different category. So.

Yeah. And a lot of, a lot of those medications that are meant to sedate and keep patients comfortable are also exactly. So they may quiet it down, but I'm sure that he's getting all types of um you know eeg surveillance and and all all sorts of things um you know in the interim as it is but again it may mask um and and really for the time being you know he needs yeah it's fine he needs the rest yeah exactly his body needs the rest and and the the oxygen demand and all of these metabolic demands go down uh with with what we do to recover these patients following an arrest

event um but i remember jackson i remember jackson was in a coma for they put him into an induced coma for like a week or so right not really a week it was just a couple of days but he was again like a week post neurosurgery he still had his, but he was, again, he was post neurosurgery. He still had his skull, it was removed, it's still embedded in his abdomen, not in his head. There's a lot of stuff going on. And we thought for sure it was going to be a bad outturn. Oh my God. There was no question

in my mind. I've never seen anything like this. We want to pray that the best comes out of this for this individual. Yes. Well, that gives me faith. It gives me faith that this kid can do okay, too. So, Joanne, I'm going to put you back in. Thank you so much for stepping up and talking with us. Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me. But that's my opinion, not your opinion. Your opinion is what?

That he, by the grace of God, he has a chance to recover. He definitely has a chance. I mean, I didn't think that Jackson would. I had no... I told you. When his dad was standing over me saying, is he going to be okay? I was thinking, I can't even... Maybe he has guardian angels.

Not willing to answer that question, even. All right, Let me try to get to some of you guys here. Or he's a, he's a robust, strong football player. Maybe he'll be okay. Here's a closeted virologist, which is an interesting top label. And we'll wrap up pretty soon guys, but I appreciate y'all being here yes i don't know your name unfortunately is it shia uh hiya hiya yeah so i thanks for letting me speak i've been on some of the other uh listening groups last night there's like a six hour call um and i i was tagging you and a bunch of people different articles so um you know a couple questions is you know he was placed on ecmo right away and um if it was, let's say. I've not heard that. Wait, wait.

I've not heard he's on ECMO. I've heard he's on a ventilator. Yeah. Yeah. Last night he was placed on ECMO. Why would they do that? That makes no sense at all. So that is my question to you.

You know, we've seen patients, obviously, with COVID on ECMO and patients. It's when you can't keep them ventilated or oxygenated on the ventilator. You bypass their lungs, quite literally. Now, I guess you can get shock lung. Sometimes a shock lung will fill with fluid. But even that, though, you can usually ventilate ECMO. Maybe it's ECMO and ventilator, but very odd. That's very weird.

Okay. Yeah. So that was interesting. And it came from a family member that was reporting that to a reporter that was on the other call from last night that he was placed on ECMO because somebody had asked if he was placed on pressers. So just curious, you've had patients with pulmonary till hypertension placed on ECMO,den right heart failure. Young females with lupus that had, you know,

pulmonary till hypertension ended up in a very severe crisis. So, if there is any type of mechanism of action related to this being,

let's say, vaccine related, which, if he was vaccinated, it's probably been quite some time because the NFL had required it. The interesting thing is college students coming back to school in January of 2021 and February were sent letters along in September and along in this most recent January were sent letters that they're part of athletic teams from the Ivy League schools.

And they had requested that the football players, I can speak to at least three top universities on the East Coast had sent letters to families and to the students directly requiring cardiac MRIs and echoes before returning to campus. If they've had either COVID infection recently and or a vaccination recently, booster or otherwise. And that was in written documents. But that's interesting, rational.

I support it. I don't know what they're going to do with the data, but I think it's a rational approach. So good for them. Yeah. So I don't think it was data-based. It was a requirement to be actively playing on the sports teams because Wesleyan, a lot of these schools back east were very concerned about the optics of having an athlete have an event

because it has liability on the school sports programs. And there are also private schools in LA. I've heard anecdotally, Harvard Westlake sent out the same email. Some of these kind of top tier schools that have athletic programs from an optics standpoint have very high vaccine requirements. All the kids are vaccinated and boosted and then requiring echocardiograms and cardiac MRIs. And those are letters that are sent directly to parents.

I think that's something that should be publicly discussed. I think another factor is football players in the NFL. There have been multiple players in the NFL and in the National Hockey League and in the NBA and in Major Baseball League who have come out with reports early on from blood clots. A NBA player came out and was off for a whole season. And they were specifically told not to discuss that it was vaccine related. So the NFL and the other sports leagues put people on COVID leave, COVID sick leave, whether it was from COVID and or from vaccine related adverse events. And you can find that posted in many places.

Hard to find on Google, but you'll see direct reports from the athletes directly being put on COVID leave. and then there'll be a comment that, you know, vaccine injury related. But this is maybe good news because that means the data's there. If we start to get it, go after it, if somebody mines it, at least we have the data there. I just consider this all good

news. This is something that would have to be done as an audit of the sports leagues and a FOIA request or a subpoena from a law firm that, you know, maybe a Robert Kennedy Jr. does, because there is data, you know, they, even if they did comply with up to 95%, as they are saying in the NFL, you know, we know that there's, you know, players and there's opportunities for people who got homeopathically vaccinated, as we had as, you know, one football player came out very publicly was on

a joe rogan podcast if kairi irving so there's there's definitely letters and literature and conversations but because there's an insurance liability here that nobody's discussing where for these large life insurance plans especially when you're a player the the teams actually have insurance plans against their own athletes and so And so that they get compensated for contract reimbursement. And I think one thing that's not being brought up is that in these contracts, and this is you'll have to ask some agents, sports agents as well, there's exemptions and life insurance contracts for experimental procedures and medications. And something that has been a gap area, which nobody has been able to resolve for

me, I've called three large insurance companies, is this considered still experimental? Because the reason why I was told by some professional athletes when I was in a, let's just say I was in an office in a hospital having a conversation with some pretty key elite people there. And they were discussing that they cannot list it as a vaccine injury because of the insurance-related issues. So you'll often find that the wives and family members are not going to report it as a vaccine injury. Very few autopsies are being done. Obviously, this is like a common thing. I've spoken to John Gill, the head of the Pathology Association about this a year ago when he had no matrix for how to autopsy vaccine injured patients. Then he came out and did the two autopsies on those two myocarditis teenagers.

So they're very well aware that there's this gap in whether or not it's considered an experimental procedure because technically we don't have the BLA licensure. It's not exactly FDA approved yet. So I want to make sure I'm hearing. So you're saying they would lose their life insurance coverage if they were getting an experimental procedure. Okay. Yes. If it's listed on the death certificate and how and why that would be is if

it's a, let's say it's a hundred million dollar life insurance policy from the league, the life insurance people will then fight back because they don't want to pay that out and say, you know what, here's this clause. And to this date, we haven't heard those cases come out yet. And it may come in the future if there's a denial for those insurance plans or contracts to be paid out. So that's the only tipping point where you could see that there'll be exposure from these national sports leagues is the actual sports league have an insurance policy against the athletes and the athletes themselves have one as well. And so if they don't want to pay those, they'll start to be these

mandatory autopsies and investigations. And it depends on what kind of pressure they may get from, you know, HHS. I get it. There's a lot of interesting stuff. Keep mining. Keep doing it. You're doing – I have a funny – it's interesting. I have this very disturbing feeling about us not collecting the data and not figuring out how to protect people against whatever this is that's happening. And yet you're kind of getting there. I just hope you find a way to get somebody to publish it or find somebody to really get it because, uh, we need to understand this. We got to understand it. And it's, I guess I'm feeling frustration that you're having to do this by such alternative means and on your own and without, without, you know, some academic support, just really odd. Isn't that weird?

It's very strange. And what you should look into is if you can get the top HLH physician at Children's Hospital in LA, there's been more vaccine-induced HLH than historically reported in a 20-year period in one month. So you yourself as a medical practitioner like myself can call up directly to the medical affairs departments for the two manufacturers and ask for any case reports based on a specific unusual disease state. And I only work in rare orphan disease states. So when I had two cases of vaccine-induced HLH pop up in a three-year-old and a seven-year-old in my neighborhood with fevers of 121 degrees. He monk got involved. I just reached out to the head of the HLH department at Children's Hospital, genius. And I said, I have two cases of like within 48 hours of vaccination. And the numbers are amazing when you look at it and it's radio silence. But if you call up the main manufacturer in that age range, it was kids in January of 2021, February of 2021, even in December of 2022, we've had cases. But you'll see it's worldwide.

And HLH is a very rare disease. It does not happen in 85-year-olds. It's typically hereditary and genetic. It's right after delivery within two to three months. And we're having it in staggering numbers. 85 cases just in a six-month period is more than I've heard of in 10 years. So these are just like, you know, you can, there's a lot of information that's not being merged from the manufacturers.

Signals, signals, weird signals. Weird. All right. I'm trying to get more people up. Thank you so much for reporting to us and keep, keep doing it. So many layers. Yeah. So many. I mean, I didn't even think about the insurance. Well, I know about the politics of NFL, like the way they run it. There's so many layers. Yeah. So many. I mean, I didn't even think about the insurance. Well, I know about the politics of NFL, like the way they run it. It's like a machine. Listen, when

things like the state of emergency in public health, I was very frustrated that they kept re-upping it in California. Well, it turns out one of the reasons they did is because people would get access to Medi-Cal more easily. I was like, oh, okay. Well, of course. There are reasons that some of these things keep going that we may not all be aware of.

Look, I think I should wrap up unless you think I, Caleb, think we should keep going? But Jeff just showed up. I just literally put it up on the screen. We're at 5,000 viewers on YouTube. So that's a new record there. And there's thousands of people watching on all the other platforms. So I just wanted to thank everybody for watching and making a new record for

2023 on our first show. And we can keep going. I mean, I'm happy to take the questions. It's good. It's giving us positive, uncomfortable because we're getting uncomfortable because we're getting into speculation and the weeds of collecting data.

I'm not sure that's helping people in that. And so I, I want to make sure that whatever, we want to help people um deal with the tragedy you know it's sort of like 9-11 that's us getting together and that's us talking about it and us you know helping people understand what they saw and what this was and why it's happening the way it is i don't know that i buy the ecmo thing that just doesn't make any sense to me and again as kayla pointed out to me that's not been confirmed what is that ecmo extracorporeal oxygen

what's the m stand for it's essentially when your lungs don't work it's like a you know we have kidney machines for dialysis this is sort of our lung machine membrane oxygenation extracorporeal membrane oxidation it doesn't work very well it's not a great thing but it's when you really are desperate um and it would be weird for him to uh beyond that it makes no sense i, he did not have a lung problem, but as I said, you can get this weird shock lung sometimes where the lung just fills with fluid, but that's, I don't know,

it'd be weird if he had that so fast too. I'm such an unmedical person. You're such an unmedical person. Yeah, just, it's so sad. All right, let me, I'm going to ask a couple more people to come up. This is Sphinx. I think I've heard you on the other streams, the Twitter spaces,

and maybe you have something to add to this conversation here. Yes, go right ahead. Not hearing you for some reason. It's actually raining in California. Is that what that is? I'm hearing, and what's the dog freaking out about? The pool guy's here. But I can't go, I can't leave my post.

I want to listen to your show. All right. Sphinx, I don't hear you. You're unmuted, but for some reason we're not coming through. I'm not quite sure why. Hang on a second, guys. And by the way, I've not been able to find Alan, the cardiologist. I sent you a picture of the...

Can you ask him somebody? I found it and I found his account and I invited him up to speak, but I think it was the exact moment that he was stepping out. So he's invited if he pops back in. Okay, great. I sent you a picture of his profile. Yeah, but that doesn't help me. So you can see what he looks like.

Yeah, I just got a hundred... It's Elon. It's not Alan. Elon. I think. It's not a bird. A-L-O-N. A-L-O-N.

Oh, sorry. Yeah, they don't put these alphabetically. She's gone. I'm going to try her. How do they do it? Like how many followers you have or something? I don't know. Okay.

You guys, I'm trying to get everybody up here that we possibly can. This is Equilibrium. I don't know your name. There it is. I don't know your name. I love it. It's Sphinx and then Equilibrium. There you are. Hi there. Hi, Drew. This is Punctuated.

Should I speak or are we waiting for Sphinx? This is Daniel, actually. Oh, good. We're waiting for Sphinx? I don't see her. Oh, wait. No, this is Daniel. I'm in the punctuated username. Okay, go ahead. So I wanted to thank you.

We met 20 years ago and you were a great influence on my education, but I'm not going to bore everyone else with that. You used to talk about, going back to Epstein, you used to talk about abusers

finding their victims and you know uh you could even hear it in their voice how they presented themselves yeah yeah uh so I have a story with uh you know some of my social circle flew out to Epstein's mansion I guess in the early 2000s I have pictures taken of her and she wasn't she wasn't abused and she doesn't really want to publicize the story but I'll share it anonymously because it goes into what you used to talk about um he was asking her a lot of questions while the photographs were being taken and she didn't really think of anything of it other than i think she just kind of thought it was very weird but she got you know she got paid after she left so she you know it just kind of

went out of her mind and and she didn't really think about it and i guess she wasn't aware of the 2008 arrest she was a she found out uh i guess when he was arrested i guess it was 2019 or 2020 and she realized who he was that he was the person who had been taking pictures of her he had been asking her questions about you know her life and her family and she thought it was just you know trying to to get a pose or trying to get some kind of emotion at the time um and that he was a little you know maybe socially awkward she realized looking back i i guess i guess it must have been 15 years later that what he had actually been doing was trying to figure out if she was you know a believable witness oh interesting wow she had

someone in his family she had someone in her family i think so so this was a this was someone that i knew you know that dated that that dated one of my very good friends when I was in high school in the U S and, you know, um, I don't, I, her family was fairly well off. And I, I believe not certain, I believe she had, uh, some lawyers in her family. So, so I, I think what he was doing, I, you know, just, just from him having ignored her awful, um, he was trying to figure out people who, you know, didn't have families that were going to, you know, go to the, you know, either go to the authorities or be believable. He went to the authorities. And that hasn't been, no other media has picked up on that.

And I think that's how, that's one of the factors why he got away for it. Yeah. It seems to me that he was diabolical in almost every aspect of how he maintained his operation i i have heard i've heard stories of how he was grooming celebrities too and how he'd have certain celebrities bring other celebrities and how he got them like this guy was a master manipulator like like i i didn't know if you would describe a character like this in a book or a movie, I'd go, I'm not sure. You know, not really as anybody like that.

Um, I think we had one. I think we had one. But, but a 98, 99, I remember you talking about, no, you're, and you're one of the reasons I tell you what I did. And you actually, I have to thank you. You came out to, to, uh, UCSB and you, uh, out to UCSB with Adam and you did a show. You either did it for free or someone subsidized it. You stayed afterwards and you signed autographs and you talked with a lot of the pre-med students and other students.

And you had a big influence on my education. So I have to thank you. I didn't realize at the time. My privilege, man. That's a big honor when I can do that. I was involved in turning Ryan Holiday onto Stoics, and that was one of my great triumphs. So you'll be in there with Ryan, and I appreciate it. I'm much more. But when I heard that story, I instantly thought of what you were talking about in 1998 and 99 about abusers, uh, you know, identifying their victims. Yeah. Usually though, but usually though they, they do it instinctively.

They don't do it. So cold bloodedly, you know what I'm saying? This was cold blooded. It was, but he was, he was, he was probably the worst criminal. Yeah. I have another story. I don't know if you're interested about Bill Gates. Okay.

Uh, this, this one is not as, this one is not as interesting, but, um, you know, when I was, when I was in the U S when I was a little bit after, uh, maybe a few years after we,

we briefly met, um, I knew someone who was a limo driver for him. Uh, I think in the early two, it was in the early two thousands. I think it was one of my limo drivers, but his impression of Bill Gates,

I, I didn't really believe all the, all the Gates stories because he remembered Gates being socially awkward and boring and eating at McDonald's. That sounds like him. That sounds like him. I think this guy had a pretty big mouth with the other uh college students and you know if there was anything kind of going on that he was running around uh you know uh doing anything you know kind of crazy and inappropriate i'm sure i would have heard the story so it sounded like he was a very you know nerdy yeah if he was doing things he probably had shame and he was hiding it yeah thanks man i appreciate it

so much uh and yes i'm sure he had shame if that was the case and nobody to my knowledge has alleged he was doing anything extraordinary it's just this weird thing that melinda gates dropped about epstein it's like what what what was she saying and that's why i was saying if hey honey if you mean something you better say it otherwise say what you know what megan kelly said which is just drop it and otherwise be clear about it. Okay. I think that's it. I think we've sort of ground ourselves to a little bit of a halt here.

I know there is a new Twitter files, at least two new Twitter files coming. Matt Taibbi is dropping some more today. So we'll have an opportunity to discuss that hopefully tomorrow at three o'clock. We'll start at three o'clock tomorrow. Tomorrow is Byram Brindle. With Dr. Kelly. Dr. Kelly is in here to do her thing. And then on Thursday, is that Dr. Lee or is that Tuesday? No, Tuesday. Tuesday we have Dr. Lee. How do you pronounce your last name? Yang. Yang. That is Byram Brindle. He's interesting. As always, I'll take something

out of it, no doubt. And Thursday, maybe we'll just go back to questions. Li Mingyan. Li Mingyan. She was working in China in virology and has some really interesting observations. She'll be in here on Giant Tent. And Drew booked her. Well, I heard her on a Twitter space. He's coming over the dark side with me.

I need to talk to her. Yeah, Susan is very paranoid about China. I'm not paranoid. We better get some data. I'm aware of China. I'm not paranoid. We better get some data. Aware of China. I'm not paranoid. Being aware of it makes you paranoid. I'm not conspiratorial.

That's exactly what I was about to say, Drew. Being aware of it makes you paranoid. Being aware of China makes you more paranoid. Right. We appreciate you all on Twitter Spaces for joining us. I'm not paranoid. You're not paranoid, but we'll see how you react on next Tuesday for joining us. Of course, you're not paranoid, but we'll see how you react on next Tuesday when she gives us some of the, some of her observations,

her stuff, look, her stuff made me paranoid. I want to hear more about this. So I'm not feeling sunlight makes you less paranoid show, bring things to the light of day. That's why I wanted to go. When I start feeling paranoid feelings, that's what I want to look further and bring it into the light. That's my instinct. And Caleb, you tell me if that's right or wrong with people that tend to be that way. It is a 100%. The coverup is always worse than the crime. You cover something up and it allows people that think conspiratorial thoughts and go that direction to believe that there's 10 times worse things going on that they're covering up if they have one lie that they find. It's true.

I come from that world, so don't lie to us. And I appreciate people understand my position on this tragedy for the Buffalo Bills is a disaster and I feel terrible for this kid. And we're not trying to cause any conspiratorial thoughts. We're just trying to find the truth. Bottom of what's going on here. There's lots of questions, more questions than answers, and the questions aren't being pursued and that's way out. Really concerning to me. Uh, I want not this not to happen anymore. And if it's because we're, we in the medical profession are doing something

to healthy people when they have little or no risk from the illness, or if it is the illness, we better vaccinate more or be more aggressive with the packs of it. Whatever it is, these questions need to be very clearly answered. And also whether or not we need to do screening for athletes as some of what Chaya was saying that might be necessary is actually being done in certain settings, which is fascinating to me, which means there might be some data out there which could help us answer some of these questions. All right. So again, tomorrow, Byron Brindle.

Thursday, I think we're going to, Susan, Caleb, I think I'm instinctively just want to do calls on Thursday because there's going to be multiple more Twitter files dropped. So tomorrow is your premiere of Special Forces, the ultimate test on Fox 11. And what's 11 here? But we'll see what people want to talk about the day after, or if we can get somebody to come on from the show afterwards. We thought about it, but I don't know. Do you want to air show right now?

That little footage you have there, Caleb, or are you going to leave it at the very end? I can, I can actually play it right now. Let's do it. This is what I went. This was my summer vacation and you can watch it on Wednesday at eight

o'clock on your Fox network. You're on your Fox network. You're on fire. Hold, hold, go, go, go. I don't care how rich or famous they are. They've entered our world and they will play by our rules. You will pick up a number and that is now you. This is not an adventure race, this is a military selection. Let's go! You will suffer individually and you'll suffer together.

That's the only way through. Why are you here? This for me is just about taking back my power. I just want to feel like I'm just like worth something. I've become a little soft. Do I still have that fire? Find another way! If they don't react properly, they could die. I don't care what anybody says. That is scary. This isn't TikTok or Instagram. Can't call your agent.

No one's coming to save you. Not mine, but I'm going to send it back. You don't quit it, you quit. Drop the attitude now now! Fight! Go! You will learn from your pain, because pain retains. Come on, we can do it. I was worried about what I could get out of it, and now it's all about what I can get.

It's not about pass or fail on these tasks. It is all about what you've got in your head you'll be a changed person for damn sure you will be a better person as we were uh special ops recruits in the jordanian desert and those four staff members put us through insane paces. Uh, I don't, I'm not sure they'd ever do this again. It was, it was very dangerous, but all of us are now the dearest of friends. We all are grateful. We did it. We all were changed by it and we all look forward. And you'll see why tomorrow. You won't believe it. I would like to have Remy on

maybe on Friday just to pop in and say hi. Remy? Oh, sure. Yeah. He can talk about it. For sure. That'd be great. Uh, and, and, uh. Yeah, he can talk about it. For sure. That'd be great. And you literally won't believe what you're seeing, but what you're seeing is what you're seeing. It just is what happened to us. And I don't know if they can do it ever again because it was pretty high wire stuff, literally and figuratively. So please do tune into that. We appreciate you supporting it.

It'll be on Hulu if you miss it tomorrow night. Otherwise, we'll be here tomorrow with Dr. Kelly. Victory, 3 o'clock Pacific time. I'll see you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement

for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me, call 911. Thank you.