Ask Dr. Drew - Mike Benz: NPR, Brazil, Telegram – Censorship Industry Declares War on Free Speech – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 349

Episode Date: April 21, 2024

“At the top of the censorship industry food chain are the interlacing suites of CIA cut-outs & State Department-funded NGOs known as US government “soft power” projection capacities,” writes Mike Benz, as opponents to free expression attempt to control speech in Brazil, Pakistan, on Telegram, and at NPR. Mike Benz is the founder of Foundation for Freedom Online, a free speech watchdog dedicated to restoring the promise of a free and open Internet. He is a former State Department cyber official in the Trump Administration, whose responsibilities included formulating and negotiating US foreign policy on international communications and information technology matters. Follow Mike at https://x.com/mikebenzcyber and https://foundationforfreedomonline.com/ Anthony Howard Brown is the author of From Park Bench to Park Avenue: One Man’s Journey Out of Homelessness. He is the founder and director of Coordinating & Assisting Recovery Environments (C.A.R.E.) located in Anaheim, California. Since 1999, Anthony’s passion is providing specialized treatment for individuals who suffer with mental illness combined with a substance use disorder. With a B.S. in Nursing from California State University Fullerton, Anthony developed and directed a long-term residential treatment model, which has fueled his dream to open a home for those who have suffered from the disease of addiction and mental illness. Follow Anthony at https://x.com/brown_manor and learn more at https://anthonyhowardbrown.com 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • COZY EARTH - Susan and Drew love Cozy Earth's sheets & clothing made with super-soft viscose from bamboo! Use code DREW to save up to 40% at https://drdrew.com/cozy • TRU NIAGEN - For almost a decade, Dr. Drew has been taking a healthy-aging supplement called Tru Niagen, which uses a patented form of Nicotinamide Riboside to boost NAD levels. Use code DREW for 20% off at https://drdrew.com/truniagen • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 GEAR 」 • NANLITE - Dr. Drew upgraded his studio with Nanlite: the best lighting for film, TV, and live streaming podcasts. Bring your vision to life at https://drdrew.com/nanlite 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician with over 35 years of national radio, NYT bestselling books, and countless TV shows bearing his name. He's known for Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Teen Mom OG (MTV), The Masked Singer (FOX), multiple hit podcasts, and the iconic Loveline radio show. Dr. Drew Pinsky received his undergraduate degree from Amherst College and his M.D. from the University of Southern California, School of Medicine. Read more at https://drdrew.com/about Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So, obviously I'm in a different environment today. We had a complete meltdown in our internet today. So I've run down to my medical office. This is where I practice medicine. And we have Wi-Fi here. And so the show must go on. I'm very anxious to talk to Mike Benz. And so Susan had a great idea that I should run down here and just set up a computer. And I'll zoom in much the way Mike has zoomed in. And Caleb is still in command of the ship in Alabama. And hopefully we can get on with the show from here.

I'll be watching you on Restream as I always do. I link right on into that. I apologize if there are any glitches or anything in the process because it's the first time we've really done this. Also, you'll notice the lighting is a little different without our Nan lights in there. The Nan lights really make a huge difference and we appreciate their participation with our. After Mike Benz, there it is.

After Mike Benz, we're going to speak with Anthony Brown, a friend who had made it off the streets as a homeless person now as a nurse and a nurse manager. And now he's setting up his own treatment centers. I want to promote what he's doing. So Mike Benz after this. Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre.

The psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying,

you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want help stopping, I can help. I got a lot to say.

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Go to drdrew.com slash TWC for 10% off. That is drdrew.com slash TWC for 10% off all your orders. I'm very excited about these kits. Go to drdrew.com slash TWC. Quick coda on that. I don't know if you've heard, but avian flu is coming. The World Health Organization has to create a vaccine against a flu that has been around since the mid nineties and is now infected exactly, exactly one human, one human, one human, and zero human-to-human transmission. So if you start hearing that there is rapid human-to-human transmission, that means that they have screwed

with that virus and they have messed with the gate of function. And all of a sudden, we do have a problem. So I just wanted to take this moment to say at the wellness company, we take that seriously. And so we've added a broad spectrum antiviral tamiflu to our condition kit what's good against other flus as well you have to take it early but it's actually been shown to be quite a useful against the avian flu so should it come around uh which is only if they're doing gain of function that's the only way it's going to come around so if you see that happening you know what's up up. All right. So Mike Benz is back. He's the founder of Foundation for Freedom Online, free speech watchdog dedicated to restoring the promise of

free speech in this country. He was a State Department cyber official in the Trump administration, and he has been very popular in social media these days with his videos about the blob. Mike, welcome to the program. back i should say thanks for having me looking forward to talking so uh amongst other things uh i i you know we open with this avian flu thing uh i i'm of the opinion that there's no way this thing has zero potential as zero evidence evidence of human-to-human transmission. So if it suddenly becomes rapidly transmissible amongst humans, to me that means they're messing with it in the biolab. Should we be thinking that way?

I think at this point, you basically have to start from the assumption that something that's going to be deemed by our national security state or foreign policy establishment to be a pandemic has some sort of roots in a juiced up gain of function type explosion of its potential pandemic power. We've seen so much evidence of this, not just from the latest pandemic and COVID, but frankly, dating all the way back to Lyme disease and the evolution of biowarfare and frankly, the utility of pandemics to give a license for the national security state to descend on countries around the world and form a kind of para-governance structure there. We saw that with AIDS and other pandemics as a way to get a sort of boot heel, a sort of

toehold in governments that were previously boxing us out. Once you have a public health predicate to put military boots on the ground, those military boots never leave. There was a very strange role of, for example, vaccine clinics in Central Asia. The time when we were chasing Osama bin Laden, the CIA was setting up vaccine clinics to be able to collect the biometrics of insurgent groups in the region. There's a lot of crossover between the security state

and the field of weaponized biology. This is where this new phrase around the biosecurity state really comes in. And we're living in an age where I don't think that you can trust the government exactly to tell you faithfully what they're doing in their own classified labs. Yeah, I would like to – I'm sort of curious why a government by and for the people suddenly can't trust its own... The government can't trust the constituents, it seems, and certainly constituents can't even get any information out of the government. Is it just that the bureaucracy has become so profoundly enlarged and such a blob, and I'm not just talking about the national security state,

the whole thing is a blob that and I'm not just talking about the national security state, the whole thing is a blob that doesn't have values, doesn't have morality, doesn't change direction, doesn't say I'm sorry, doesn't say I'm wrong. It just rolls along. Is that what has happened to us? Yeah, well, I'd say it has interests rather than ideology, and it chases those interests ruthlessly. And in this case, I tend to follow the censorship side because that's my sort of technical expertise on this. I don't have a biomedical background on these things. story was the very first censorship mercenary firms to descend on the internet, both in the US and around the world, all had very deep ties to the Pentagon and to the Central Intelligence Agency. And I can go list by list through who all of those were and what the timeline chronology was

for how they predated the censorship done by all the other institutions by months. And essentially came from the same psychological warfare side of winning hearts and minds that our CIA and Pentagon do to try to sway insurgency groups towards the US cause. They were basically deployed to be able to create citizen buy-in to what became our COVID response. So propaganda we're talking about, right? I mean, that's really what's ultimately the sort of the, I'll let you refine it if it's something different, but I talked to Matthias Desmet yesterday and it was a fascinating

conversation. And he was saying, I want to just frame it, just sketch it a little bit, that with the reduction in religion, we see the increase in narcissistic traits in human beings, and narcissism promotes envy and grievance. On one hand, envy and grievance is what the blob is sort of capitalizing on. On the other is fear. So what I'm wondering is, should we be teaching people to understand that when they see the press, the government, the post, the blob, using fear or

grievance as a way to try to get our buy-in, shouldn't we immediately think, oh, it's propaganda? Don't we have to educate people about that? Oh, of course. I mean, this is what a lot of the censorship, you know, I see censorship as being the flip side of propaganda. Propaganda is the knob upturning of the volume of a government message. Censorship is the knob downturning of any counter messaging. And until the social media censorship expanded AI toolkit was really unveiled starting after the 2016 election here in the US, there really was no ability to do censorship at mass scale in a peer-to-peer way. You had famous examples of censorship in the 20th century where JFK basically gave command orders to the

mainstream media not to report certain things about the Cuban Missile Crisis when it looked like we were on the verge of World War III in 1961. But they couldn't reach into the dinner table conversations of 300 million Americans and just turn down their volume if they start talking about a key phrase like lab leak. And so in this case, I do see the censorship weapon as being actually a lot worse than just propaganda because propaganda still allows people to have a fighting chance against it if they simply don't believe it or the institutions lose so much credibility that when they see a propaganda poster, they roll their eyes and say, well, that means nothing to me and it means nothing to my friends or my clergy. So, yeah, but the issue here is exactly what you identified around fear was part of the censorship scheme. You see, the way they censored COVID, and when I say they, I mean these Pentagon and CIA and State Department cutouts like Grafica, like the Atlantic Council, like the Stanford Air and Observatory, like the University of Washington, were all staffed by former CIA or former DOD or former state folks. They basically censored anything that might, quote, undermine public

faith and support for the severity of the virus and the government's response to it. So, for example, the Department of Homeland Security's Cyber Security Division, which was their censorship division, but they simply said any misdisc or malinformation about COVID is a cyber attack because it's speech online that attacks a critical government response. This is why the Cyber Security Task Force was censoring COVID speech on Twitter. And they, for example, put out a video in the heat of COVID in 2021, where they instructed young children to report their own family members for disinformation by citing, if their family members simply cited CDC data that compared the death rate of COVID to the death rate of the flu. They gave an example of someone tweeting, COVID is no more fatal than the flu.

And they go through an instruction manual, basically, for a young child to report her own uncle for posting that. Not because it's wrong, because he cited CDC data, but because it would undermine the fear response. Talk to people a little bit about the blob and how you came to understand it and who is in the blob. And I just want to also, I'm interested in that because I was sort of looking at the history of propaganda and these tactics of getting mind control, really, persuasion, mind control, hypnosis, whatever you want to call it. And in the 20th century, we had these sort of dictatorial leaders that used it, and they had their own administration.

But now we have these incredibly bloated bureaucracy, or blobs. And I think the blob model applies beyond the security state. But talk about how you've come to understand that and people that may not have seen your last appearance and who they are and what they're doing. Sure. And I totally agree with your assessment. But the blob is actually a term from President Obama's Deputy National Security Advisor, Ben Rhodes, who was opining on the difficulty within the White House of getting things done because they

seem to be up against an impenetrable force, an amorphous alien monster that was more powerful than even the Obama White House. And so he sort of coined this phrase out of desperation in a certain, or exasperation in a certain sense, but it's been adopted in Washington. And it refers to the foreign policy establishment, and I'll sketch out what that is. And it's not just the foreign policy establishment within the government, it is the external stakeholders in the corporate and financial worlds who are the donor drafter class off of the government activities. So I'll sketch that out a little bit here. So the foreign policy establishment is the side of our government

that faces outward rather than inward to manage the American empire rather than the American homeland. So we have government agencies that manage the American homeland, like Housing and Urban Development, the Department of Agriculture, the Department of Labor, they all face inward. They don't do international business, so to speak, with Ukraine or Moldova or sub-Saharan Africa. We have three sides of our government, three basically departments or constellations of entities that face outward.

And those are the Pentagon, the State Department, and our intelligence services, such as the CIA. Now, together, they basically form this defense, diplomacy, intelligence apparatus. And because they face outward and their mandate is to protect and maximize U.S. national interests on the world stage, they have a license to do dirty tricks that domestic-facing institutions are not empowered to do. So, for example, they can wiretap foreign citizens. They don't need to get a warrant for it.

They can bribe foreign media institutions to promote or kill stories. They can set up their own media vehicles to be able to swing hearts and minds so that another country's own parliament votes for or against a different bill there in order to get the people of a foreign country to support a US military base in the region or a UN Security Council vote in a region. And they're deployed with this dirty tricks power, which involves a license to lie. So for example, the Central Intelligence Agency under National Security Council 10-2 back in the 1940s was given basically a license to do all sorts of criminal or illegal activity as long as they maintain plausible deniability, meaning as long as the U.S.

government could plausibly deny that the Central Intelligence Agency or that the U.S. government was behind it, they could engage in criminal activity. Now, that was all set up, the foreign policy establishment, the blob, who again on the inside is State Department, Pentagon, and CIA, we'll just say for shorthand for the intelligence community. The social contract, when that was set up in 1947, 1948, was that it was for managing the American empire for the benefit of the citizens of the homeland. And it would have these dirty tricks powers. It would be able to spy. It would be able to lie. It would be able to rig elections, be able to rig media because at the end of the day, the citizens here would benefit from it, but it would never be turned on our own citizens.

That's what our constitution is for and all the other protections that go into being a US citizen. Now the issue is, so that's the inside of the blob. The outside of it is the corporate and financial stakeholder class. These are the corporations and the banks and the financial investors who are the sort of donor drafter class off of the activities of the government. So you can think of, when I refer to drafting, you can think of it like a bike race. The strategy in a bike race is not to be out in front where the full blast of the wind is hitting you. the most efficient strategy in a bike race is to be second in line, to draft off of the person who goes first so that they cut the

wind for you so that you save all your energy and are able to just overtake them on the last lap, so to speak. So U.S. multinational corporations, since the age of globalization, have relied on the blob, have relied on the State Department, the Pentagon, and the CIA in order to protect and secure foreign markets for their products, to protect and secure cheap manufacturing in those regions, to protect and secure against issues around tariffs or taxes or labor or regulations. And it's the job of the State Department to go in and pressure that foreign country's. And it's the job of the State Department to go in and pressure that foreign country's government. It's the job of our Central Intelligence Agency to go in and rig those

elections or to go in and set up a constellation of surround sound NGO media in order to get that country's population to support that initiative. And it's the job of the Pentagon to do both the sort of dangling threat of military intervention in the name of democracy or the civil affairs, hearts and minds works around psychological warfare in order to make that happen. Now, that redounds to the benefit of U.S. multinational corporations who operate in that region. So a famous example in the oil and gas space, for example, is ExxonMobil, Chevron.

These companies, most of their profits come from all the different shale or hydrocarbon reserves around the whole rest of the world. Other countries don't want to voluntarily just give up their oil or give up their gas or give up these loose business partnerships where they get mostly railed in negotiations there, the government has to cut the wind for Chevron and for ExxonMobil. The government has to go in and basically coerce these foreign governments or offer carrots and sticks. And so those companies draft off of the activities of the blob. Now, because they are also major financial donors to the political class, they are essentially

donors into the decision-making within the government, while their own corporate and financial interests draft off the activities of the government who does that work. So Pfizer in the biosecurity space is a great example of this. Without having government pressure for these mandates, government pressure for vaccine mandates and things like this. Pfizer itself would not be able to have the profit margins. The government cuts the wind by capturing the market for them. And even companies like Moderna, who is one of the other major ones, Moderna was a Pentagon contractor from the day it was born.

It's very much keeping the money in-house. And I got a bunch of questions off of that. But since you mentioned Pfizer, have you been watching the House hearings about vaccines? where they're starting to uncover how sideways the FDA was in terms of firing their virologists and having the hematologists, oncologists call all the shots. A lot of the questioning was directed. I watched some questioning of our friend Joe Latipo, who's a Surgeon General for Florida. And they were saying, are you a virologist? Are you an infectious disease expert?

And the head of the committee said, neither would anyone in the FDA committee. So what is the issue we make here? But my question really is, is the Overton window opening? Do you think that people are going to be able to fight back on the blob? Is there something afoot? Yes. I mean, I think the past 18 months have been a string of successes, almost one after another, except for now the increased role of just, you know, government interventions in countries like Brazil,

countries like Pakistan, and even here in this country, as we now have a number of government censorship sort of, and I can get into this, I mean, some of this gets to do with the EU Digital Services Act, and how the State Department is basically trying to get Europe to pass censorship laws to boomerang on us here, or the state-level censorship laws around media literacy. I do. I do want to get into that and Brazil and whatnot. But after the break, though, I want to kind of set things up first. A couple of quick questions. Is it correct, would it be correct to say that they came up with the term malinformation instead of misinformation so they can start to turn their powers inward? This helps them take what should be going outward and now directing it inward because if I'm a creator of malinformation, I'm essentially a terrorist or something? Yeah, well, the malinformation backstory is quite funny because they'd already turned the apparatus inward after the 2016 election. See, initially it was Russian disinformation. So it started out with this disinformation word,

which of course is a military term. Before the year 2016, we never referred to our own citizens, even accused lies as being disinformation. That is a literal military word that was just ported home and then normalized. But they started to have a big problem. This is after the 2016 election when Brexit had happened in Europe and all the European right-wing populist parties were rising in power and Trump was taking office here. And so they wanted to stop the rise of right-wing populism on the internet because that was its entire media support structure and therefore its political support structure. So they had this Russian disinformation concept, but the definition of disinformation was it's not just false, you know it's false in advance. And so you are basically perpetrating a fraud. But then they had a big problem there.

This was before the noose was fully tied around big tech's neck by the US government. They were still trying to use fact checkers and basically emails to say, this is before they were just coercing them with threats of crisis PR and advertiser boycotts and government regulation, which was the real sort of crackdown. But this is in 2017, 2018. They were negotiating with the tech platforms because this is a brand new role for the US government to instruct on censorship. And the platforms were relatively willing to play ball when there was a documentable digital forensics evidence of a Russian hostile information campaign, and it was genuinely disinformation. But then they said, well, here's the problem is we can't really prove intent in a lot of these cases.

So misinformation is just as bad as disinformation. And the platforms were sort of on board with that in the beginning. So there was pushback, but they said, all right, well, you're allowed to be wrong. But if it's a really sensitive issue, if there's something where we just can't tell the difference, okay, we'll smudge misinformation into that. Because at the end of the day, well, because at the end of the day, they just rolled out this term. Right, right. Well, they just rolled out this, the government at this time was capacity building through tens of millions of dollars, this brand new field of fact checkers. And if the fact checkers could provide some sort of patina to hang out, some sort of fig leaf to say, well, this is factually wrong, then both mis- and disinformation were covered.

The problem was is by early 2019, most of the things that were most deadly to them politically could not even be fact-checked. They couldn't be fact – they couldn't be documentably, you know, there was no factual way to prove that a potential claim was false. So for example, around the Hunter Biden laptop, you couldn't necessarily put Russian fingerprints on it. You couldn't necessarily say that the thing was wrong. Or about mail-in ballots. Mail-in ballots have been argued for 250 years to be an unsafe way to carry out an election. Even the Abraham Lincoln election in 1862 made arguments against the use of mail-in ballots because they're not safe.

They couldn't factually prove that the use of mail-in ballots were not safe. They couldn't fact-check that. But the use of the word malinformation allowed them to have platforms remove information even when there was no sort of fact check or email to be able to validate the government's position on it. So it was a way to basically end run the idea of truth itself. And the watch phrase for malinformation is undermine public faith

and confidence. That's what malinformation is. It says when something is true or we can't prove it's false, but it still leads the general population to undermine public faith and confidence in a critical government initiative or a pillar of US critical infrastructure like our public health response. Well, it's still leading them to believe that true statement. So citing CDC data, for example, in the DHS censorship instructional video, citing CDC data was deemed malinformation because even though it's true, it's CDC data, it still leads people to undermine public faith and confidence in the severity of the government's COVID response. Well, I need a little break here. Every time I talk to you, my mind starts to swim. I want to come back around. Can I leave you with one quick, one last thing. This is very funny.

On DHS's own website, before they purged it, although all this stuff is archived on my Twitter account, DHS's own website had an infographic for misdisk and malinformation. And the infographic for malinformation was a bullhorn shooting out missiles. And the missiles had the word facts on them. So they were arguing that shooting out factual information from your mouth, facts, were what had to be destroyed. Oh, my God. They were as dangerous as armed missiles. I mean, think about that. You can't handle the truth.

I always remind people, even during the pandemic, I said that Jack Nicholson character in A Few Good Men was the villain. He was the absolute villain when he screamed, you can't handle the truth. It was not the guy advocating for something reasonable on behalf of the government. So when not the guy advocating for something reasonable on behalf of the government. So when we get back, I want to talk about Brazil and Europe and, like you said, how they're running around the world and having their way that way. I want you

to tell us about who the Atlantic Group is and you mentioned them briefly. And then the Department of Justice, I think you occasionally blow past them as a participant in all this. I'm curious how they fit into this scheme of the state, the Pentagon, and the CIA. It seems like they're, is it very simple or is it complicated or is it dependent on the administration? I'll make it as simple as possible, but there's a very definite answer to that. So I look forward to expounding on it after the break. We'll make it as simple as possible, but there's a very definite answer to that. So I look forward to expounding on it after the break. We'll do all that after the break. Mike Benz, as he said, follow him on Twitter,

Mike Benz Cyber, that's his ex-account, Mike Benz, B-E-N-Z, Cyber. Also a foundation for freedom online. If you're not following Mike Benz on X, you're making a huge mistake. You're really going to miss what's actually happening, as Scott Adams says about you almost every day. Because if you don't watch Mike Ben's,

there's no way to understand what is up here. Because otherwise you walk around and go, how is this? How could they get this so wrong? What is going on? It starts to organize around what Mike Ben's teaches us. Take a little break. Be right back after this.

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Mike was teaching us about the blob and its function and intent. And before the break, we were talking about the DOJ and its role in this and the Atlantic Group. So, Mike, let's get back into this. Yeah. Well, the Atlantic Council is a really fascinating case study in how the blob works both inside and out. So nominally, the Atlantic Council is said to be NATO's think tank. Now, NATO is the Pan-Western World's Military Alliance. And it's supposed to just be military. So not civilian, not political. It's just, you know, in a Western democracy, the military answers to the civilian class.

But there's a big problem, which was discovered basically midway through the 20th century, which is after we switched to, in 1948, to an international set of laws that you could no longer acquire territory by military force, this is in the UN Declaration on Human Rights, and everything switched to a hearts and minds game for the governments of democracies, our intelligence state essentially figured out quickly that the easiest way to win a war is not to fight another country's army, army to army. That's quite expensive. Many people die. Every missile that we launch costs millions of dollars. The easiest way to win a war is to simply overthrow the country's government from the inside, have a new government elected, a new

political leader, a new president, and that president has essentially civilian control over the military and can get the military to stand down or surrender. And so this made NATO into a political animal. It made whoever gets elected in any NATO country an essential part of the military calculus. Now, by our own military doctrine, we say that there's four theaters of war. There is the strategic, the high-level strategy for the war. There is the tactical, the individual tactics of a particular battle or strike. There's the logistical. This has to do with supply lines and the equipment used. And there's the political. So there's four ways to win or lose a war. And on the political, for example, we commonly say in our own sort of US Army War College

paper documents, we lost Vietnam, for example, not because of the strategic, the tactical, the logistical, we lost because of the political. We lost because our own Congress cut off the funds. Our own president ended it. It was not like we were hosed on the military battlefield. It was that at some point, the American people got sick of it politically. The hearts and minds switched. And so they shut off the spigot to even wage the war. You can't have the logistics without the money to pay for it. We're seeing this right now, for example,

in Ukraine. This is why the military is so involved in the media push to get more appropriations funding for the Ukraine war. But getting back to the Atlantic Council here, so the Atlantic Council represents the political arm and essentially the clandestine political operations arm of NATO. When there's a government issue within a NATO country that might affect a NATO priority, the Atlantic Council's principal goal is to use a whole of society apparatus that gathers together at consensus meetings and puts a bunch of people on payroll to essentially get NATO priorities installed at the government level and at the sociocultural level within NATO countries so that there's no friction to what NATO wants done.

Now, the Atlantic Council has seven CIA directors on its board, seven number one former heads of the CIA on its board of directors. As I frequently say, a lot of people don't even know that seven former heads of the CIA are still alive, let alone all clustered and centered on the board of a single entity that is essentially the top dog in the censorship space. Now, they're funding. They get annual funding from the Pentagon, and not just the Pentagon. They get annual discrete funding from all four branches of the US military, the Air Force, the Navy, the Marines, and the Army. They also get annual funding from the State Department, and they also get annual funding from CIA cutouts like the National Endowment for Democracy. We've, in our own Washington Post, acknowledged this as a CIA cutout.

They essentially represent the barometer, the political barometer of the U.S. intelligence community as well as across Europe. And they are that consensus-building arm. Now, what's so troubling about all this is that the Atlantic Council has such a major role and really was at the forefront of the construction of the censorship industry. This was after the Crimea annexation in 2014, when it was perceived that half of Ukraine had fallen to Russia and there needed to be a military reconquest of eastern Ukraine and of Crimea, the Atlantic Council went around twisting the arm of all the different European

countries to pass sanctions on Russia, which harmed themselves economically. So they needed to be pressured. Much of that pressure came from the Atlantic Council and its corporate and financial and government stakeholders. Because in addition to getting funding from the U.S. government and U.S. intelligence state and the British government, the British intelligence state, they're also funded by all the major oil companies, all the major energy companies, all the major military contractors like Boeing and Raytheon, they basically represent the donor and drafter class of the US government's blob. And so the Atlantic Council began to fixate on the necessity of internet censorship when after the State Department poured $5 billion into Ukrainian civil society for the 2014 Ukraine

coup, and it still was not enough to swing the hearts and minds of the people in Eastern Ukraine. So they said, well, propaganda is not enough. Peer-to-peer communications between people in Central and Eastern Europe is actually the real enemy here. We need a censorship capacity. And they basically plotted to set up, they were one of the main driving forces behind the construction of a domestic government censorship office in this country, DHS, which I mentioned in our previous segment. And the Atlantic Council is, not only are they this kind of CIA hub, and not only are they this kind of representation arm for the corporate and financial class. They were the contracted disinformation flaggers for the US government. So not only did they plan to get DHS setting up a censorship agency in 2018, they were formally tapped, formally partnered by the Department of Homeland Security to censor

the 2020 election. Them, along with Grafica, who is a Pentagon contractor who came out of the Pentagon Psychological Warfare Research Center, as well as the Stanford Air and Observatory and the University of Washington. Those four entities comprised both the election integrity partnership that was the censorship attack dog for the 2020 election. But then as soon as the 2020 election ended, they closed down shop and set up a new censorship agency or consortium called the Virality Project. And they were responsible in large part for so much of the censorship of COVID-19. In fact, their partners, Grafica, Grafica, as I mentioned, were the PSYOP center of the Pentagon as a for-profit firm. Grafica was the very first entity to descend on the U.S. social media landscape to censor COVID origins conspiracy theories in December 2019.

In their own documents, they said they started their censorship work on December 16th, 2019. Now, that's just four days after the outbreak of pneumonia-like symptoms. And again, their job was working for the Pentagon doing psychological operations work. So just for now, when I published a news story about that, they responded publicly and said, well, actually, there's a 30-day back date. We didn't start our censorship work until January 2020. It was January 16th, not December 20th. Well, that's still one month after the outbreak. And that's still two months before it would even be called COVID-19.

What were they doing in January 2020 with millions of dollars from the Pentagon and doing work for years for the Central Intelligence Agency, drawing these sophisticated network maps of every major influential news outlet in the US, in the UK, in Italy, in Spain, in France, in Greece, the entire NATO nexus on social media was network-wrapped with meticulous precision by the Pentagon's Psychological Operations Unit in a joint partnership with NATO's Stratcom Center of Excellence, which is the psychological warfare center of NATO, which was set up after 2014. That same military psyops warfare fighting apparatus between both the Pentagon and NATO had a joint pursuit to censor anybody as soon as the outbreak of the virus who questioned whether it might be a lab leak. Now, I would say if I was the Pentagon there, I would sure love a Pentagon-funded

social media censorship firm to do that work for me if I happen to be the one behind it. It's almost like the perfect crime. And there's a lot with what you just said, obviously. It seems like if I pick two people that would be completely intolerable to what you describe as the intent of these organizations like this, two people that would have to be stopped would be Elon Musk and Donald Trump. Those two are overtly anathema for different reasons, I would say. I mean, one, they must be fearful of Trump just running around and running amok and figuring things out on his own without their input. Elon Musk, because he can't be cast asunder by them, at least his organization can't, although they have found ways to go through Brazil and Europe and other places to try to pressure him that way, I suppose. Is that what's happening? That's exactly right. With the Elon Musk situation, I've long said that if he had become the world's richest man by running a lemonade stand, I think he would have been crushed like a bug. But the fact is, Elon Musk's other properties, SpaceX and Tesla, are critical to the U.S. government's own blob

operations. So SpaceX has something like one to two-thirds of the entire world's low-Earth satellites. All of the U.S. government's telecommunications work runs through SpaceX. If you were to simply, you know, so there's a huge dependency on Elon Musk by our Pentagon, by our CIA, by our State Department. Same thing with Tesla. Tesla basically represents the Western world's promise of renewable batteries for renewable energy. You know, there was actually a lot of, quite a scandal several years ago when the U.S. government overthrew the government of Bolivia in what was called at the time the lithium coup. And a lot of folks were taking to Twitter to sort

of castigate Elon Musk for being the beneficiary of the U.S. government essentially doing that same drafting operation where it's not Tesla who is paying to overthrow that government. It's the Pentagon and the State Department and the CIA doing it, but Tesla essentially drafting off of that activity and maximizing profit because now they have access to the lithium. Now, I'm not opining on the morality of that. This is simply the way international business is done through the blob. But what I'm saying is,

the national security state is sort of between a rock and a hard place with Musk in certain respects because the natural tool they would want to use in a situation like this is something called CFIUS, which is a nationalization law that says if something is a national security threat, we can basically just nationalize the company. Now, that is a very heavy-handed tool to use. And you can do that to a small company. You say it's got Russian ties and we just nationalize it. But if you do that to the richest man in the world who is widely beloved by not just much of our own country but much of the own country, but much of the entire world. I mean, even what he's doing with the interplanetary hope, you know, he's far eclipsed NASA in terms of what SpaceX has done with modern rocket technology. To just break the back of someone like that and strip him of his assets

would cause a flight from capital from the United States into countries like China and into other great power competitors of the US. And so what they're doing now is a death by 1000 paper cuts. The state of Delaware, remember, just two months ago, deprived Elon Musk of $56 billion in a single pen stroke, breaking two centuries worth of Delaware corporate law. I was a corporate lawyer. We were told Delaware, the thing that makes Delaware, Delaware, the reason that two thirds of the country's corporations make their headquarters in Delaware despite operating everywhere else is because the Delaware courts always respect the meeting of the minds in a hands-off, arm's length negotiation

between the shareholders and the corporate directors and officers. They broke that precedent in a completely unprecedented way just to strip Elon Musk of $50 billion more that he could have deployed towards X and towards his own enterprises. They did the same thing to Tesla and to SpaceX. The state of California has gone after Tesla. The Justice Department has gone after SpaceX simply for not hiring enough illegal immigrants. This is something that's also completely unprecedented. They argued that a US national champion was breaking the law by not hiring enough people who were not US citizens and who were here illegally. Instead of prosecuting the illegal immigrants, they prosecuted a country for a prime business of the United States for not

prioritizing US citizens. It's completely insane. But the FEC has gone after them, the SEC has gone after them, the FTC has gone after them. The Justice Department has gone after them. Department of Labor has gone after them. They are trying to do a death by a thousand paper cuts to try to get him to be reasonable on these issues. And the ultimate weapon in their toolkit right now is the NATO censorship law coming from Europe through the EU Digital Services Act, as well as these new state censorship laws coming out of recently

U.S. State Department regime change countries like Brazil and like Pakistan. Is there something, I have to kind of move towards wrapping this up, there's a lot more to talk about. We didn't answer the question of the DOJ's role in all this. Maybe you can just throw that in. But what does the average person do? What should we be doing about all this? Well, the number one thing is talk about it, talk about it, talk about it. Because every layer of

our strategic options rely on having an elevated national consciousness and of the perception of being a hero for responding to the people's popular will. Many members of Congress were apprised of the censorship situation before the Twitter files. It was not until it was on the tip of everyone's tongue that you started to have three different censorship hearings in the weaponization subcommittee, an armada of subpoenas, and people hauled in for transcribed interviews. Two hearings at the House Homeland Security Committee, a censorship hearing in oversight. When it was on the tip of everyone's tongues, that's when members of Congress want to be heroes because they feel they'll be rewarded by being valorized for what they do. The media will want to cover it more when everybody's already talking about it because it's a hot topic and they know it

will go more viral because you're already talking about it. It's already trending. There's already a level of consciousness about the backstory and who the cast of heroes and villains in the story are. And the more that happens, the more donors in the free speech space will want to donate to civil society institutions who are taking the issue on for the same reasons. So this is basically a whole of society network defense is what I'm laying out here that ties together our allies in Congress, our allies at the state government level through the state AGs and the state treasuries and the state governorships, the private sector companies like Elon Musk at X and like Rumble and like, I think, a growing camp of free speech

alternative private sector institutions, as in the civil society space and as in the media space, all starting to work together. We've seen that work very well over the past 18 months. But the response to that from the blob side has been to raise the stakes and to effectively try to outlaw or criminalize speech through these tactics involving the EU Digital Services Act and the actions in Brazil and Pakistan. Yeah, I see that happening, but it seems like it is slowly moving, right? It's slowly going that way in the way you're describing.

Gosh, I had one last question about the blob. Oh, is there a world where the blob and its behavior is rational and that we just don't know all the facts, so to speak, that whatever they're doing has some value to the average citizen that I just can't see. The tactics they're using to protect it does not look like it's a just cause, but is there a world where what they're doing is literally better for us?

Certainly. So, you know, the way they would describe it and the way they did describe it in 2017, 2018, 2019, when all this was being set up, was that if free speech was allowed to persist on the internet, the entire rules-based international order would collapse and potentially the international finance system along with it. So at the time, you know, the reason that the Atlantic Council and these NATO folks were sort of able to

get the kind of total buy-in across their whole of society network around this was, if Brexit gives rise to Frexit and Spexit and it'll exit in the UK, and the US goes nationalist populist, and Brazil goes nationalist populist, and Hungary and Pakistan, all these countries go nationalist populist. Well, first of all, once that happens in Europe, if Marine Le Pen wins that election, and the AFD wins that election, and the Vox Party in Spain wins that election, well, there goes the EU. The EU is the commercial arm of NATO. So basically, NATO is going to come undone if the EU comes undone. If NATO comes undone, well, then now you have hundreds of billions of dollars in the international finance system that need to be repaid through the pressure of the IMF and the

World Bank. Well, who's going to enforce the edicts of the IMF and the World Bank if you don't have NATO to enforce it when a country goes into default? Who's going to hold a country's debts to accounts? So you'll basically, from their perspective, it was like the entire rules-based international order on the democratic institution side, on the financial side, on the corporate infrastructure side. It would almost be like the ending scene of Fight Club, where they plant the bombs at the bottom of the building of the credit card companies to reset everything to zero. So they were making the argument that the only reason these political threats were emergent in a Senate was because of free speech on the internet. We need to kill free

speech on the internet to save the rules-based international order. And in a certain sense, they are not entirely wrong. Now, that doesn't mean they're right. And like I said, I think that they were doomsday sayers about it, but you know, they basically pulled this, you know, tried to pull this off without, without being so explicit in their, in their public messaging. Yeah. Then their public messaging, Oh, it was the mystic and malinformation is a threat to democracy. Not that, you know, actually free speech will end the world as we know it.

Once they start talking like that, they lose their political. Then people start talking about defunding NATO and then they don't even operate. So interesting. But you're semi-optimistic. Would that be accurate? I am hugely optimistic about the power of our current playbook to be able to win in the fight where we were having it from 2016 to 2020. The issue is, and we know this to be the case because you can listen to the squeals of the censorship industry's own insiders. You know, a month ago, the New York Times had an A1 Sunday edition front page lead story about how they were losing the war to censor disinformation because of this exact blueprint strategy.

The problem is, is as we're winning downstream, they've moved the battle upstream to a play to end the First Amendment as we know it. That's what the Supreme Court case that's being decided has in its balance. The government is arguing the First Amendment did not anticipate social media. The First Amendment is outdated. We need to expand it so that it's effectively neutralized, so that the government can quarterback the private sector and civil society and media for censorship operations.

The State Department and the CIA have moved to coerce Europe to pass these censorship laws, which will basically bankrupt any U.S. company, any U.S. social media platform, whoS. social media platform who does not censor what NATO says to censor. And because you can't be a multinational social media tech platform unless you operate in Europe. Europe has more people than the United States. It's 550 million people in the EU. If you don't, now the State Department was behind this, this censorship push, and they're the ones who are pushing it. And same thing in Brazil. As you guys will see next week when my foundation publishes this report,

the Brazilian censorship state is a creation of the US blob. They funneled millions of dollars into Brazil, into their legal structures, into their civil society to create this bribery structure to get them to pass the censorship laws that they have for the past five years. And the Atlantic Council was at the heart of that as well. In June 2019, the Atlantic Council held an entire panel conference on how to get Brazil to install a system of censorship that escalated radically under the Biden administration through a web of CIA cutouts like the National Endowment for Democracy and dozens of U.S. State Department-funded NGOs. And it's a proxy attack on X. Let's leave it there. And where do you want people to go to read that and continue to follow you?

Number one place is going to be on X, at Mike Ben Cyber. I'm a rabid poster there. And then my foundation's website is foundationforfreedomonline.com. When is that paper coming out? Monday morning. All right, sir. Good luck with that. And we'll talk to you

subsequent to that firestorm, I hope. Great. Thanks. Appreciate your time. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate you being here. That is Mike Benz. Follow him on Mike Benz Cyber on X. So we're going to switch gears a little bit.

I have to wrap up pretty soon here. We've got my friend Anthony Brown ready to go. Anthony has an interesting story, and he's both in terms of his own life and what he's engaged in right now. Welcome, Anthony Brown, please. Can we get him in there? I'm bringing him in? There you are.

Hey, man. How are you doing? Hey. Good. How are you? Excellent. So is that Brown Manor over your right shoulder? Yes.

That's the place. I want you to tell everybody your own story. Sketch it. I think we've gone over it before. But just sketch your own story briefly and then what you're doing now and why you're so committed to this. Okay. Well, my own story is a bunch of childhood abuse to the extreme that led to me leaving home at 14, got involved with doing drugs almost every day of my life until I turned 37. And then the next thing you know, somebody intervened and asked me if I wanted some help.

Then I went to school for a long period of time, got a whole bunch of degrees, and I want to go out and save the world. The book is Park Bench to Park Avenue. That's a very abbreviated version of a fantastic story. I mean, you know, I could always talk about the beating. You know, it's... Let's just say it this way. You were deep into drugs. You were selling drugs.

You were living in that world and had trouble. How many times were you arrested and put in prison? Oh, my God. Right. Out of the 90s, I think I spent probably two and a half years out of jail out of the whole 90s yeah and and tell him that quick story that he was used to sell drugs in this one corner

and uh you got arrested after and you were sitting in prison thinking what's wrong something is wrong right right there's got to be an issue because I thought that, you know, at first I thought I wasn't like being sneaky enough, you know. And it's really funny because this all happened in Orange County way back in the 90s. And when I came to Orange County in the 90s, there was only like four black people and I was one, you know. And my disguise was I had a D.A.R.E. t-shirt and I'm out at two o'clock in the morning, all cracked out trying to sell drugs. And, you know, I got arrested, went to the county jail and thought, well, there's a problem. So I thought maybe I'll hide it in my sock and go back to the same place and get busted. And,

you know, kind of got a little smarter and thought, well, maybe I'll keep it in my hand. But then I got too high and I forgot it was in my hand and I got busted. And then, you know, kind of got a little smarter and thought, well, maybe I'll keep it in my hand. But then I got too high and I forgot it was in my hand and I got busted. And then, you know, I went back. Then I got super smart. I go, OK, well, I got the solution. So I just went one block south and still got busted. You know, it's why I love drug addiction. It's why I love what it does to people's thinking.

It's so it's so funny how we think of that disease. But and you became a nurse and then a nurse manager and a nurse director of nursing. And now, do you have a nurse practitioner's license? The Board of Registered Nursing in California has me listed as a nurse practitioner. I still have to take the state board exams. But yeah, pretty soon I'll be legally allowed to pass on medication. Great. And you grew up in Ohio before you joined the carnivals and the drugs and the tilt-a-whirls

and lived under the tilt-a-whirl, which I said just glibly. And you go, yeah, how'd you know? And you committed to building a place to help others. You understand this disease intimately. You worked in a psychiatric hospital setting. And tell me about Brown Manor. Brown Manor, as you said, I'm originally from Ohio. I went to California, spent 44 years, and then decided in December to come back and give to the community. And so I purchased this 9,000 square foot abandoned mansion. And I'm going to, and I wrote a transitional care program for homeless people. And I'm going to implement it there.

And since I've had 23 years of being homeless and about 20 years of education, I feel that I know what I'm doing. you know? I was just sitting here laughing. I have a PhD in vagrancy, you know, and so I know, you know, what time it is. But you know the, right, you know the illness, you know what keeps people on the streets, and you know what gets people off the streets, right? And you're the perfect person. And by the way, you know, the thing we always tell the patients is hang around the winners. You're the winner. You're one of the winners.

You are the example of what they could be. And so I just think what you're doing is great. I want to support it. Tell people what they can do if they want to be a part of it or when this is going to happen or if they want to refer patients to you guys. How is that all going to work? Well, right now we're still in the construction phase. They can always go to my website. We just got done doing a video tour where you can actually walk through Brown Manor.

We have one of our fundraising things is you can actually tag a spot and if you want to adopt a room, we'll put your name on a plate. This way you're getting more involved because this is a community thing and that's what's really important because we're missing that aspect a lot of people think well how come somebody can't get well by themselves well it takes it takes to raise a person yeah no no yeah yeah their brain isn't working right their brain's working right they need structure they need to rebuild yeah and it has to be long term this this isn't a 30 or 60 or 90 day program i'm

i'm creating it for a whole year you know and so you get to live in a year in in brown manor which is a mansion so you know and and i think that's going to help develop your self-esteem your self-worth and then change your self-concept and that's that's what we're all about self-efficacy anthony howard brown.com is the website go there and is is that where people can contribute if they want to be a part of the solution yeah we have a um once you go to that webpage and everything's there, the virtual tour, the, if you want to donate there, the GoFundMe, everything is right there. Or, you know, buy a bunch of books and, you know, things like that. Everything I do, Dr. Drew, is for this. Absolutely everything.

You know, I've been fortunate enough to turn my life around and get a good life and I'm okay. You know, I don't need a whole bunch, but now it's time to give because that's what's more important than anything is to give to our brothers and sisters on the streets because a lot of people don't realize people out there is somebody's brother, mother, grandmother, sister. They're related to somebody. And it's really fascinating because a lot of people don't realize that they might be one accident or one disease away from being homeless. And so we really need to get involved. We really need to show some compassion and just, you know, go out there and do what we

should be doing. How are you going to get your patients once you're up and running? Is that something people can refer in, or is it only going to be people from the local vicinity? How's that going to work? People can refer in. I know, and I've been around Ohio, California, Kansas, and it's all the same because people, people, you don't see babies on the street. You don't.

CPS intervenes and take them. So where are people coming from? Either you're getting released from an institution, you know, or you're losing your job. There's a funnel going in there. And so one of the things is how do I stop that funnel? And so hospitals can refer to us, homeless shelters can refer to us. You want them to have said treatment first, though, stabilized treatment, detox first, yeah? Yeah.

Yes, absolutely. At least a good two weeks, at least. You know, after that, then I could probably manage with coordinating with a lot of other different services, you know, involved. I know I work at a local hospital here and I've been discussing it with everybody in this community and everybody wants to do it. But the minute I put the hat out there and say, OK, we'll put something in it, you know, and so and that's OK, because I am not a quitter. That's one thing I am. I am not a quitter. That's one thing. I am not a quitter. I always laugh because, thank God, I turned into a drug addict because I know how to get what I want, no matter what. And that same philosophy is going towards structuring this program.

And I don't care if I have to get enough credentials to say, listen to me. I have a master's degree. Can you hear me now? I'm just out here doing the thing. I'm passionate about it. Once this gets done, then I'm going to come back to California and go, look, LA, this is how you do it. Oh, dude. That would be so exciting if we could do that. Out here in Squaresvilleville where you live now. Squaresville is a trip, Dr. Drew.

I mean, I got sober. I got my mind right. And I'm like, what the heck is going on? It is a trip. You got sober at an interesting time. So I promised people I would do a little tour of our my place here my you're in i'm in my office right now i'm gonna see if i can do this i don't know if i can uh sorry about this so there's all my since it's you anthony i feel kind of like i should do it

this is uh all my diplomas all over the place here. I'm crawling over wires and I'll just take you quickly down the hall here. This is where my staff works here. Can't really see anything, can you? This is our waiting room. You can see that. You can see my little lab here. Let me turn the lights on. Okay, hold on. That is a lab. I don't know if you can see what's up on the walls there. All kinds of stuff.

A couple of little exam rooms here. Oops. This is just like an exam room. Basic stuff. Oh. So we keep it simple. See, Dr. Drew is a real doctor. Yeah, you're a real doctor.

Yeah. Kind of like this is my – can you see? I can kind of see the waiting room and where the staff works and stuff. Here we go. Medical records in here behind me. Anyway, we make do in a very small space here and it works for us.

I've been here many, many, many years. Well, Anthony, listen. You know I'm a super fan and you have my full support at all times. So I'm asking for the Ask Dr. Drew community that we have built here to get behind Anthony wherever you can. And he needs lots of different support in a lot of different

ways. So just kind of go on the website, Anthony Howard Brown, see what you can do to be of use. And when you're out here or I'm in Ohio, come see us and then get the book. Get the book. Then the proceeds from the book go right to Brown Matter. Park Bench to Park Avenue. And his story is fantastic. It's fantastic. It's a great story. And it's so inspirational.

And one of the reasons he and I got involved was when he was a director of nursing at a psychiatric facility. And I was just like, oh my goodness, I know what that means to be a director of nursing at a psychiatric facility. And I was just like, oh my goodness, I know what that means to be a director of nursing. That is no BS. That is a serious job. And not just anybody gets those jobs.

So I could see immediately how far you would come. And then as I got to know you, I know exactly how you got there. And it's a privilege to be your friend, to call you a friend, privilege to be your friend, to call you a friend, and to witness your continued success. So anthonyhowardbrown.com,

Brown Manor supported. Anthony, we'll talk soon. All right, thanks, Dr. Drew. You got it. And Caleb, are we good? Otherwise, this has been quite an interesting little experience to do it this way. It's a great inside look at your office over here.

Yeah, you've never been here either. Uh-uh, I haven't been there either. Yeah, there's the upcoming schedule. Salty Cracker in here next week. Naomi Wolf, Tom Renz, Donald Trump Jr., Mike Lindell, Emily Barsh is hard at work. Some crazy stuff coming your way.

Do sign up at the Rumble channel if you don't mind. Mike Benz, I swear to God, I could do three hours with Mike Benz and then another three hours with Matthias Desmet. The two of them, they're just helping me understand reality

because before discussing things with them, I found things very confusing. At least they're kind of making sense of things. So I have to run right now. It is Wednesday. We're doing a show called Help Uncensored that'll be on Fox Business Channel and another show for Discovery ID I'll be filming also.

So I'm going to be busy for the next few days, but we'll pick back up again. Is it Tuesday we pick back up? April 22nd. Let's double check what that is. Let me pull up my calendar. That's a Monday actually. So we're doing Monday coming up with Salty Cracker. And that's going to be back at the regular time

3 p.m. Pacific. So it's Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday next week we're doing shows. The reason is we've got a family thing coming up. Alright. Excellent. Thank you everybody for being here. We coming up. So, all right. Excellent. Thank you, everybody, for being here. We appreciate it. And we will see you Monday.

And that is at 3 o'clock, correct, Caleb? Yep, that's correct. All right. We will see you then. Thanks, everybody, for putting up with our little interesting experiment today. Hope you learned something. And we will see you on Monday at 3 o'clock. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for

medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published.

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