Ask Dr. Drew - New Twitter CEO Linda Yaccarino: WEF Puppet or Secret Freedom Fighter? Jordan Schachtel on Twitter 2.0, Big Tech Censorship & World Economic Forum – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 220

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

Elon Musk recently announced Linda Yaccarino – an executive at NBCUniversal – as the new CEO of Twitter. But many users are concerned with Yaccarino’s past statements that appear to signal allegiance to the World Economic Forum and Blackrock agenda of a future where you “own nothing, and are happy.” Did Elon make the right choice? Behind-the-scenes, could Yaccarino be a freedom fighter in secret? Jordan Schachtel discusses Twitter 2.0, and if Twitter is at risk of returning to its past censorship policies after it complied with an order from the Turkish government to take down posts during its election. “With the hiring of Twitter’s new CEO, and the accommodating of government censorship requests, Twitter’s embrace of pragmatism over principle may lead it down the path into the welcoming arms of the BlackRock/WEF agenda,” warns Jordan Schachtel. Jordan Schachtel is an independent investigative journalist and publisher of The Dossier on Substack at https://dossier.substack.com. Follow him at https://twitter.com/jordanschachtel 「 SPONSORED BY 」 • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Of course, are watching you all on the restream and the Rumble Rants. And we have Twitter spaces open. Hopefully, we'll take some calls later in the show. Today, my guest is Jordan Schachtel. You can follow him at Jordan Schachtel. No spaces or underscores or anything. Last name spelled S-C-H-A-C-H-T-E-L. S-C-H-A-C-H-T-E-L.

That is on Twitter. You can also a sub stack at dossier.substack. And a reminder that on Monday, we have Robert F. Kennedy Jr. coming to visit with us and Dr. Victory will be here with him. Viva Frye on Tuesday and Simone Atiba with Dr. Victory on Wednesday as well. So there's a lot to get into today.

Amongst other things, the new CEO, Linda Iaccarino over at twitter at twitter so-called 2.0 people are concerned that her relationship with the world economic forum forum may be significant we'll see what jordan has to say about that and a multitude of other topics right after this our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre the psychopath started this he was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin, ridiculous.

I'm a doctor for. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop,

and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. You can spend thousands of dollars trying to look a few years younger, or you can skip all of that hassle and go with what works. GenuCell skincare. GenuCell is the secret to better skin. In fact, you might have witnessed the astonishing effects of GenuCell during a recent unplanned moment on our show, when just a little GenuCell XV restored my skin within minutes, right before your eyes.

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Again, that is GenuCell.com slash Drew. G-E-N-U-C-E-L.com slash D-R-E-W. As I said, Jordan Checktel in here in just a minute. Susan, everything good with you? Yes. I've noticed you've adopted a new relationship with our soundboard where you're like a pianist making a great gesture associated with a final chord or something. I messed up the beginning. I can see the arm movements from behind the screen that you're sitting in front of.

I'm hair flying in the air. Yes. Nothing to add for you before we get Jordan in here? No, I'm good. Everything up to speed. All right. So welcome, Jordan Schachtel. He is, as I said, Jordan Schachtel on Twitter.

And Jordan, on your Substack, where can we get that? Is that dossier.substack? Well, we bought the domain name to get through twitter's firewall don't tell elon musk yet but it's a you can just go to dot today and um now the images are populating on twitter for now but that's a whole separate issue that we can maybe talk about but appreciate you having me on fascinating didn't you used to come on my kbc uh radio show back like a few years ago didn't we used to talk once in a while back then do you remember that yeah i think so i think we've had a couple yeah i i think we had a few conversations and and what i was reflecting on

was how how much that seemed like in a different time, like a different time, a different world, like there was before times, and we used to know each other back before the war or something. And now I feel like the world has completely turned upside down in more ways than I can count. I've been covering on this show a lot of the COVID excesses, and I've learned a lot by talking to people who have been canceled. So I sort of want to go at the

Twitter and the canceling and the Twitter files. You, of course, saw Elon Musk's interview, I think it was yesterday or the day before. Yeah, with CNBC. With CNBC. And he was sitting there saying they were like what what censorship are you seeing he goes well there was a horrible there were these horrible things done by the government and how i i always try to understand other people's points of view i'm really struggling trying to understand how people can diminish and marginalize what was so clearly outrageous behavior on part of government organizations. How do people rationalize that? Is it it's just they're part of their tribe and any information that assails it is just rejected?

That's that. Yeah. I mean, as the Durham report that just came out about the whole Russian collusion saga showed us that these people, these federal bureaucrats are completely untethered from reality itself. And they operate in this like super tribal system. And there was this big hearing, I think today in in Congress where they had all these FBI whistleblowers talking about how, you know, the FBI basically silenced them because they weren't in line with the FBI's politics. As if like this organization is like some like independent body that is elected by the people. It was just so bizarre, the behavior of these rogue bureaucrats and the coordination with Twitter 1.0 was pretty devastating for speech in America. So I'll give Elon Musk a lot of credit for hopefully working it in the right direction. in living in a world where people can speak their mind and not be worried about being harmed, which is the most unbelievable circumstance imaginable. I did see some of this FBI testimony today, and it was interesting. Two things jumped out at me. One was the former FBI agent who talked about how his oath of allegiance is to the Constitution,

which I'm not even sure most people in the federal government even know that, that that's who they're at. Because there's so much talk about changing things in ways that are bizarre that I don't understand how they reconcile that. But OK, his oath is to the Constitution, not be FBI. And where there were infringements on the Constitution, he was obliged to step up. So that jumped out at me. I thought that was interesting. And the other thing was how many members of Congress were marginalizing these poor guys as just disgruntled employees. I couldn't, I was trying to get my head around that.

I mean, I guess it's good to be a little skeptical, but to really just profoundly marginalize them seemed disrespectful to me. Yeah, you know, my background's in national security and foreign affairs reporting originally. And you kind of see this all the time, sadly, is that when a true whistleblower wants to come out and speak his or her mind about government overreach, government malfeasance, generally they do not have these white shoe, high powered lawyers that these other so-called whistleblowers have. And it's interesting that when the answer is to give the government more power, the corporate media and these government agencies

are more than happy to give them a giant platform, especially Democrats in Congress are happy to celebrate these people as if there's these brave truth tellers. Then we saw what happened to Edward Snowden. He had to flee the country to break a real whistleblower story. And I don't think that anything has been reformed. Sadly, if someone actually is a real whistleblower in the federal government,

they have very few, if any, options to speak truth to power in that sense. Do you think anything will come of these hearings? You know, I'm deeply skeptical of the Congress, what I describe as the uniparty on both sides. I think that maybe it's probably, in my view, going to take a new White House administration, whether that be Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis, to hopefully overhaul the administrative state and really chop away at it, because Congress, as you are well aware of, they love when the camera's on, they love the virtue signaling, they love getting mad at, you know, the person with the blue hat or the person with the red hat. But it seems like nothing ever gets done. Like, are we going to

get all emotional and caught up about this debt ceiling debate when we know that the solution is for them all is just they're going to raise the debt ceiling again and again and again. So it's like we're just getting kind of like psyoped into becoming hopeful that Congress is actually going to do something beneficial. But I guess I'm reality-filled on Congress right now. Oh, man, it is certainly discouraging, I got to say. So why, you mentioned the Durham report, why do you think there was no action, no prosecution,

no consequences? Yeah, I think that Durham was, is again, part of the system. I think, you know, he seems like an honest man, but he wasn't willing to go as far as to say what I think people like, you know, you have Lee Smith, who wrote the plot against the president and turned it into a movie, you know, people that are deeply informed on these issues, that it wasn't even, you know, you have to reject this entire premise of Russian disinformation entirely. I mean, this was an operation run by Hillary Clinton and government agents. It had nothing to do with Russia. So even accepting the premise... Jordan, let me, I'm going to to stop you i feel like half the country does not have access to that information and when they hear it they just sort of no no because it's so underreported there's nobody again i i thought

the press the press's great rallying cry was speak truth to power. Isn't this a prime opportunity for them to just at least investigate how power could run amok so thoroughly? Yeah, you know, they don't seem too interested because they're more agenda driven than they've ever been before, in my view. And the corporate media is kind of on the same side of the power-hungry politicians who just seek to usurp power in this parasitic fashion. You know, we elect these people to represent their constituents, and at the end of the day, they end up usurping authority from their constituents. And I hope that, you know, especially through these horrible, you know, COVID hysteria times, probably the worst roll up of power in modern American history. I hope, I think that has awakened a lot of people to what is really going on in DC.

And like, do these people actually have your best interests at heart? It doesn't really seem so these days. So do you think it woke people up? We have certainly been, we've been talking about an awful lot, but I still feel like there are people who take this position. We had to do something. We had to do something, which is, and I've repeatedly said on this program that when my residents would say stupid shit like that, that's how they'd get into trouble. They'd hurt people. It's doing nothing unless you understand the risk reward is always, well, typically better.

Yeah, I think that it took a long time for the population to catch up. about disease spread and about the government's capacity to stop a sub-microscopic particle from spreading and that people like Fauci were going on camera and promising, like, if we just do this, it'll be eliminated. And it was all just nonsense and pseudoscience. But that became the predominant narrative and people bought into it for a very long time. Well, they bought into it also in the sense that if you didn't buy into it, there's something wrong with you because you're interested in killing people as opposed to having the more rational position that maybe there's an alternative, maybe their recommendations aren't correct, maybe there are better ways to protect people and not cause unintended harms which we massively created yeah no i remember early on i was you know because

my background's in international affairs and foreign policy so i wasn't super familiar with pandemics when all this was happening you know like january february 2020 in wuhan and i'm kind of like reading through the c, WHO guidance. And I came to realize that like nothing that the government is advocating has ever been a precedent in the past when we're dealing with like, say, you know, bird flu or, you know, a rough flu season. Like they kind of just like made this stuff up on the fly. And when I started to say that, I'm sure you could relate, people were furious with me. They were calling me a bioterrorist, grandma killer.

So I'm sure they leveled the same accusations at you. Yeah, same stuff. Don't panic. Let's reconsider things. No, you have to panic. You must panic. Yeah, it was an odd time. I actually saw Michelle Obama talking the other day, and she was discussing how she

had the advantage of living with a former president who made decisions during the preceding pandemic. And this was actually my constant refrain, which was, we had a massive H1N1 pandemic, and you don't even know it happened. It killed 300,000 people, and you don't know it happened. So we don't have to go crazy over this one. It's a concern. Let's be realistic about it.

It's going to be difficult, but we don't have to go nuts. Of course, that was your grandma killer. Same thing you got, bioterrorist, et cetera. But the interesting thing that she said was that my ear tuned immediately too. She said, well, we were lucky because we lived with him and was about to say he wasn't panicked about it he wasn't concerned and I thought oh my god we need to hear from him he needs to talk about why he made the decisions he did during h1n1 and what he was thinking about the decisions they made during covid and honestly he's got to honestly

talk about it which I don't know if we can get that from any politicians. But wouldn't that be interesting? Yeah, I'd say invite Obama on the show, and hopefully he'll take up on the offer. But, you know, life is too good to drop Obama. Emily, make note of that. Make note of that, Emily. Because my bet is he would say, yeah, I looked at it,

and whatever that was, 2000, what was that, 15 or so with that pandemic? And he was like, whatever, you know, it's like business as usual, be careful, local measures, blah, blah, blah. And he made a great decision. He made a good, excellent series of decisions. I completely support what his decision-making was. I'm sure he has some notes on this particular pandemic.

And, oh, my God, the craziness of the governors. It was turtles all the way down. It really was just awful. So back to Twitter and Twitter files and the excesses of government. Again, I don't understand why it's not an outrage to everyone in the country, but some people seem to be one second I got a comment on somebody on my restream fraud Odell yeah I had h1n1 too and it was nasty it was worse than kovat so that was like 2011 was it 2011 yes

you're right cuz it was right the year the kids graduated. So like 2011. So. Is that swine flu? Twitter files. Yeah. Twitter files. H1N1. Yeah. Twitter files, overreach.

What about the new appointment of a CEO that Elon Musk has selected? She comes from NBC Universal. She seems like a substantial person, but she was on a task force for the World Economic Forum. Is that a horrible

thing? It's not a good thing. There's a lot of rumors that this woman, because a lot of people notice that, hey, she follows a couple interesting conservatives on Twitter, Jack Posobiec, Carol Markowitz, established right- wing commentary TV people. But her resume indicates an entirely different perspective. And it just it pulls me the wrong way. Because like, let's say that this person's that, you know, a shadow right winger operating in corporate America, well, then she's done enormous damage to the causes that she believes in by pushing this, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion, ESG, this BlackRock World Economic Forum stakeholder capitalism agenda that's just all totalitarian, you know, centralizing authority and power into the hands of few. And, you know, she was also

working with the Ad Council, which was one of her primary jobs to propagandize people into taking mRNA shots. And we know how that went. So I, it's unfortunate, I'd rather, I mean, he's the man who bought Twitter, he spent a lot of money, or at least you know, put up some, a lot of money and he has the right to decide whoever he wants to run Twitter. But, uh, certainly wouldn't be my first pick. Um, I, I think that he's trying to get her because she's like, she has this reputation as an ad sales guru. So I guess that's good. But I thought the whole objective of Twitter Blue, which I paid for my blue check, was that it was going to be able to make Twitter more independent of this corporate behemoth, this corporate agenda. And what you find is that

corporations in America are often just forced into it, This ESG DEI, because like all the incentives push them in that direction. And that's what Yaccarino was basically capitalizing on in her job at NBC and helping out with the World Economic Forum was basically like siloing all these corporations into these funding streams. But with those funding streams come enormous strings attached. And that's what concerns me is that, you know, could Twitter become beholden to a powerful corporate advertiser? Like say, say Nike wants to start, you know, running big ads on Twitter again. They said, oh, you know, but we need to like do something about the hate against transgender people. So you can't call the four-star Admiral Levine. You can't call her a man anymore, and you get blocked for that. So it could be potentially

a means to send you back in the direction of Twitter 1.0, which would defeat the whole purpose of Elon Musk's purchase. So I'm obviously not a big fan of the new hire, but it's his call. But don't you trust him, though, to protect speech above else? I mean, I think I got that from his interview on CNBC or MSNBC, whatever it was, which was, you know, I want to be able to say what I want to say.

And all Americans should be able to do that. Yeah, but I think his actions indicate a mixed bag. I think he's very pragmatic. For instance, I don't think that he would dare. He knows that his business is very much beholden to the Chinese government because Tesla has its factories in China and sells half of its cars in China. So he's not going to criticize the Chinese government. So you can see where that leads you down a road of kind of like handicapping or silencing yourself because you have to, because you have all these business ties. So it could create problems. It's not just about losing revenue. Though Elon Musk, I think he's Twitter's best asset, but he also provides a lot of vulnerability because he has these ties. And hopefully that doesn't turn into Twitter policy. So far it has not, to his credit.

I want to push back a little bit on the mRNA ads of Yacarino's. Is that her name, Yacarino? Is that how you pronounce it? Am I getting that right? I believe so. And I have no problem with public health running ads to try to motivate people to take vaccines or discuss it with their doctor. To me, that's a push. That's fine. But to mandate vaccines, now you're in outer space. Now it's just immediately crossed into a whole other territory. And one of the things I've it's, you know, one of the things I've said repeatedly, it's like so different than the way we approached HIV. I can't even imagine us

behaving towards HIV at risk individuals or patients, the way we treated COVID patients. It's just, it's just bizarre. You make that point, you know, go ahead. You make a good point on that front that it wasn't really the ad council stuff. It was more like there was a video, you know, she's a Penn State alum and she she she ran some type of like infomercial for Penn State or she did some kind of like shout out to their. It was called Mask Up or Pack Up program, which is basically enforcing a mask mandate on the Penn State student population or go home. So like it was it was it's more stuff like that where she's just kind of like she'll do whatever the corporate agenda is at the time. And it's just like, you know, I wish that there was more of a morally guided operative running Twitter. I don't exactly know what her role is going to be because, you know, I think Elon was aware that there's going to be some pushback given her resume. So we said, you know, she's just doing business. But business, you know, it kind of like melts into everything else.

Like, you know, Jack Dorsey wasn't insulated from policy either. Right. So World Economic Forum. Well, let me switch back, let me finish this thought I was getting into about misinformation. Can you track for me the history of how alternative points of view that we just used to call interesting became something worthy of censorship? And the insanity of it of it you know we just went through a russian collusion hoax that was pure misinformation and that was heroic or what was that and and now is dora misinformation you can't even tell what they're talking about anymore when they say

misinformation how did we get here do you think yeah? Yeah, it's definitely an abusive language. You know, these terms, again, as someone with a background, an advanced degree in international relations, when you talk about disinformation, propaganda, the Soviets used to be the masters at propaganda. But you had this whole industry pop up in Washington, D.C. of like disinformation, misinformation experts. And basically what they really are, they're just censorship gurus, censorship advocates. They want to silence people to promote their agenda. So I think it's just a bastardization of language. And it's really just this racket to silence and shame people that dissent from their narrative. Just seems so, I hope people are understanding they need to stand up to this.

It's interesting to me also that one of the things I've learned is that on the cancellation front, people are never canceled for what they say. They're always canceled for what somebody says you said. And then the press reports what somebody says you said as fact, as reportable fact. How do we hold the press accountable for this misinformation, this grotesque laziness? Yeah, well, I think doing what you and I are doing is productive. You know, you have an independent platform. I'm writing on a platform for independent

publishers. And I think that the trajectory and all the interesting conversations are happening there. Like, I don't think that, you know, no offense to your former employer, CNN, but I don't think that there's much compelling information coming out of that place these days where even Fox News really, you know, they just tossed their most interesting anchorandists and their agenda is, you know, they're just beholden to certain ideological masters. And it's, I think that, you know, honestly, all the most interesting people are far away from that space anyway. So, you know, I'm encouraged by that. All right. Well, good. That's an optimistic point of view. All right, what we'll do is we'll take a little break. I also want to take some calls for those of you over on the Twitter spaces.

If you want to ask anything of Jordan, he'll be here for a few more minutes. You just head over to the Twitter spaces. And then as Caleb's cartoon shows you, you just click on the microphone in the lower left-hand corner. And once I get you up to the podium, you click it again, because it will be muted. And you'll be speaking on multiple platforms, Twitch, Twitter, Rumble, Facebook,

YouTube, you name it, we're rolling out there. So Jordan Schachtel, you can follow him on Twitter and we'll be right back after this. A lot of you have been asking for more information about how to counter the adverse effects of the spike protein from COVID infections and the COVID vaccine. The spike protein is not your friend, let's just say that. So I'm glad we have the wellness company Spike Support Formula as a sponsor, especially since renowned internist and cardiologist Dr. Peter McCullough, who's also chief scientific officer of the wellness company, is one of its champions. There's some very intriguing research around natokinase, which might be a way to take on the spike protein listen to this so start if you would with talking about natokinase how you got to that and where you see its application so with the viral infection or the vaccines

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He'll be joining me actually on Monday for an interview. I think it's great that he's out there stirring things up. I'm not advocating for a lot of the things that he's interested in. But he said something I thought was profound. He said he was asked by a reporter, you know, well, what are you going to do to unify everybody? He looked back and he said, what am I going to do to unify this country? I'm going to get this government to stop lying to its people. And I thought, oh, my God, that is a profound statement. The amount of lying and distortion and bullshitting and propagandizing is, it's got to be at an all-time high. And it is

almost by design intended to divide people more. It seems as though they get political expediency from it. And it's causing people distress. It is harming people. It's causing them to make bad choices. It's just the most damaging possible thing these politicians can be engaged in. There's almost nothing more important than the truth. And yet they take the position that was a rallying cry in a movie during the 90s or maybe it was the 80s. You can't handle the truth. We had a movie where the villain, those words come out of the villain's mouth, played by Jack Nicholson. And yet our government has taken that position that the public can't handle the truth.

What say you? Yeah, RFK Jr., I think, is a national treasure. I don't know if his presidential run is going to go so well, because in my view, there's no Kennedy Democrats left. I think they've all either left politics entirely or ended up basically maybe as like 2016 Trump voters. But I think a very interesting role, perhaps in the next administration for RFK Jr., is to make him like a public health czar, a big pharma czar. And just, you know, he knows where the bodies are buried, quite literally. And he can do immense damage to these bureaucracies on day one. I think he would be,

he's definitely a guy that knows how to reform the place. And, you know, given his family history, rightly skeptical of government overreach and government power. I mean, he's been I talk about a guy that's just when this whole thing started, I will be the first to admit, you know, I thought he was like I was like, oh, he's like that anti-vax kook. But it turns out that he was right about a lot you know probably a lot more than 99.999 of the population so you know hats off to rfk jr he's actually uh we're actually both speaking at the bitcoin conference in miami this weekend so maybe i'll run into him and uh you know tell him to get ready for dr drew's show on friday oh yeah please It's Monday, Monday. And certainly tell him, tell him you should listen to his speech. I'm sure it'll be very interesting. He's a, he's a super bright guy and he is interesting. And even now he is not taking the position again, he's accused of being

an anti-vaxxer and he's certainly not a pro vaccine, this vaccine guy, but his really ultimate position is about the coziness of the relationship between regulators and the health industry. This is not good. This is not good. They go back and forth between these positions of authority in the executive structure of the businesses and then back into the regulatory capacity. It can't help but adulterate the process. Yeah. And I don't know if you heard, but the Biden administration's new, Biden just nominated the new NIH director who needs to be approved by the Senate, but it kind of disapproved everything these days. But she took, I think, I forgot her name. It was Monica something, but her background is she took hundreds of millions of dollars from big pharma, specifically Pfizer, which she defends as, oh, it was just grant money.

That's a lot of money to influence a prominent scientist and academic position, which I found to be bizarre. But think about it. Go ahead. I can see how she can say that. I can see that that is just sort of how research is done. The pharma, nobody else has sufficiently deep pockets to fund what we need to do for a lot of the research that brings things to market finally is always done by pharma, maybe some by government, but really pharma is the predominant source of the funding now. The thing we should be worried about is now this woman who was backed by Pfizer, whether or not she has feelings about it or not, is going to be sitting at the head of the CDC, regulating and overseeing the relationship with some of these organizations.

And again, it's that phenomenon that RFK Jr. is putting his finger on. And, you know, I work in healthcare and we spent years saying, oh, you know, these salespeople that come in from pharma, they don't do anything. We don't listen to them. It's not that big a deal. Turns out they were able to persuade doctors in their prescribing practices. And it's the exact same phenomenon that, you know, we aren't incumbent upon them. We don't really care. They give us pens. Who cares? You know, if they're foolish enough to spend their time with us and I can get free medication for my patients, great. Let them see what they have to say. But turns out that that relationship ultimately has an effect.

For sure. And you're right, the problem, it's an epidemic within public health and it's not just this Democrat administration. You have to remember that Donald Trump appointed appointed scott gottlieb as his fda commissioner who later worked for pfizer who later propagandized to scare people about lockdown so they would take their shots um steven hahn also worked on operation warp speed he was also top health official And then he got scooped up by Moderna, the guy who ran Operation Warp Speed, Moderna. So it's an epidemic of corruption in government. And I do hope that they will take

it seriously now because of, I think, a lot of damage from pharmaceuticals could have been avoided with real oversight. Imagine if the FDA and CDC was actually worried about the safety and efficacy and not just rigging, helping to rig these studies and sell pharmaceuticals. They should actually, if they want to be a regulatory body, they should act as so. Yeah, I agree. Are you optimistic about things?

Do you feel as though things are moving in the right direction? Yeah, I'm optimistic about the future, but I think it's going to be a very different future. But in the meantime, you know, I find myself like, for instance, my fiance and I just got a dog and we're we have this puppy now and we're looking at this list of vaccines. Right. So we're like, OK, so which of these I was like trying trying to talk to the vets like which vaccines are really necessary and which are like kind of necessary because we can and that's like the thing that I think a lot of Americans are struggling with now is like do I trust my doctor

because trust has been irreparably harmed and rebuilding that trust is going to take some time so I think that i'm optimistic about because like i think a lot of people's minds have been opened to the the corrupt nature of the government right now but also there's been setbacks like i don't trust my doctor anymore it's kind of a big problem yeah yeah and and listen doctors were very much affected by the propaganda as well and what what you have to discuss with you have to kind like everything, you have to be armed with the right questions. For my age group, what is the risk-reward and what data do you base that on? Those are the questions you have to ask.

And the doctor may conclude that it's well worth the risk for you. And I fully endorse that. The doctors have the autonomy to make those determinations. But if they are merely towing the party line, you just got to do it, got to do it. It says, set it on my screen here on the computer, must offer, must give vaccine. That's where we get into trouble, where people are not stopping, thinking, explaining to you and justifying their position. That's what we're supposed to be doing,

making the best decision for that patient, that circumstance, that moment, based on currently available data. And I'm gonna tell you what, the data is difficult to sort through for young people. I think I understand it for older people, but it's difficult to figure out for young people. Yeah, I think it just, it kind of acts in parallel to this theme of, you know, misinformation,

disinformation, how we discuss like what truth actually is. Like we have our, like I referenced before, we have a four-star general in the, you know, in the health services now, or an admiral, I'm sorry, who is a man who is convinced that he is a woman. And therefore, he is the top health official, one of the top health officials in our country, and is supposed to be the picture of health. Although, you know, he has a lot of physical health problems that are very observable, and seemingly a lot of psychological health problems. And my concern is like, is this what they're teaching medical students these days that like, this is healthy, this is normal. You know, you have all these magazines, like it goes to the

culture where you have these magazine covers with morbidly obese people and saying like, oh, this is the new, this is the new fit style is being 150 pounds overweight and having diabetes, acquired diabetes. There's so much about healthcare now that isn't really about health, it's about these cultural agenda items that are masquerading as health. And that's kind of like what we have to, we have to like, kind of like rediscover through our academic institutions, you know, what health actually is in modern America. And it, you know, boils down to basically like bringing common sense back in my view. We'll see. I mean, it's, it's an interesting, I mean, there's many, many interesting layers to it.

I don't have time to get into all of it, but I mean, there are things like the obesity paradox, like people that are obese live longer, right? And so people point at that paradox going, how do we understand what to do? Now, obviously, if you get diabetes because of your obesity, probably that paradox is not going to hold. And I suspect that the degree to which people are being allowed to become overweight and the magnitude of our food source problems. I mean, really the problem is what we eat and how we are being, we're succumbing to the manipulations of the food source that are designed specifically to make us eat

a ton of everything that's in front of us. I mean, there's many layers to this whole thing. So I feel bad for everybody, and I think we've got to systematically address these things. And same thing with transgender. There are people with a transgender phenomenology that respond beautifully to certain treatments. How do we know which treatment patients those are? That's the problem. Physicians aren't being trained to determine what's the right treatment for the right patient,

which is always our primary charge. If you don't pick the right patient and you don't pick the right treatment, you will hurt people. So, in any event, I want to understand something. Help me educate me about George Soros. I cannot. There's Susan. I've offered calls. I'll take a call right now we'll see what we got one call up there we'll see what that is so my

producer said take a call so we'll take it from Becky go ahead Becky unmute yourself and we're good to go hi dr drew hi i just wanted to let you know there's a lot of sound problems um unless you're on the video i can't be in the twitter space have you guys noticed that a lot of people are putting comments in there i have's a very interesting conversation. I know the mic kept turning off, and I'm sort of making sure all the connections are secure right now. It might be the connections are out. It's been on the spaces that it's been a problem? Just yours, I think, because you're trying to broadcast from your show.

Yeah, yeah. So I think I may have fixed it. Is it okay now? I can hear you, but then sometimes I can't hear Jordan if I'm on the Twitter space. Then I go up to the nest and I tap on the video, but then I'm out of the space.

So I don't know. I just wanted to let you know. I appreciate it, Becky. Thank you very much. Okay. And we are encouraging speakers, anybody else that wants to come up from Twitter spaces,

raise your hand like Becky just did, and I will call you up. Let's get back to Soros. Becky, our tech guy. Yeah. And do- Maybe that's why you weren't getting your hands up. Yeah, and I noticed the Twitter space

was sort of abandoned, so probably we weren't getting sound through. So Soros, I always try to understand what people are doing i don't believe theories of people being just evil humans have motivation and humans have certain they have distortions and they have goals and their ways of looking at things that are right and wrong and i i and usually people are well-meaning we added some data today that uh unemployment for african-americans are at an all-time low for the history of the country.

People should be taking a bow for that. Great. We did something really important here. The literally unemployment rate is at historical lows. Well done. Is that what George Soros was trying to do? What is he intended? Is he going to be satisfied with that or is he up to something else?

Yeah, well, I think the employment numbers are kind of rigged because they don't count the people that have been out of the workforce. You know, I see all these homeless people and, you know, I lived in South Florida and, you know, any major city, you see so many of these people and there's, there's this tragic epidemic of drugs and all this other stuff. But as an aside, George Soros, I view him as a progressive activist who's made a lot of money, who's doing a lot of damage to the world because of his globalist ideology, especially someone who is practicing Jew, I'm deeply offended by corporate media reporters who claim that criticism of George Soros is anti-Semitism, which I find absurd because George Soros has never, ever referred,

like he just by his ancestral identity, is Jewish. But it's not like he's, you could even ask Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel, thinks that Soros is a menace too. Is he anti-Semitic? So I think what they're doing with the Soros thing is that they're ideologically aligned with him, and sometimes even directly on his payroll through these NGOs, that they're ideologically aligned with him and sometimes even directly on his payroll through these NGOs that they're just smearing people and defending what he's doing, whether it's installing these prosecutors who are causing all kinds of trouble or trying to manipulate foreign governments. But I think that Soros

uses his money very effectively. His family foundation has a lot of money and they're doing it to promote an ideological agenda that I think they believe is moral, but which I believe is evil. So what would he say? How would he explain himself? What would he say he's doing? I think that George Soros... I heard one place, I heard one explanation was that he felt that by having less African American men in prison, it would positively impact African American families, that fathers would be available more. Yeah. I mean, the issue is, I think that if you look at his record, and I'm by no means a

criminal justice expert, but George Soros believes in open borders, the open movement of people around the world. He's not really particularly fond of national sovereignty. So that causes a lot of chaos when you have a guy with billions of dollars that's willing to deploy them into these movements all around the world. I think that, you know, it's just it's just an ideological pursuit that i fervently disagree with but i think that he's allowed to spend his money as he sees fit but i think people are also allowed to criticize him but we're being told we're not allowed to criticize him so that's the problem that i have that's bizarre this is uh jen we're gonna see what she's on her mind. And Jen, just unmute that mic and you're good to go.

There you are. Hey, Dr. Drew, how are you? Very good, Jen. Thank you. It's absolutely crazy and mind-boggling right now that I'm talking to you. But I have a take that does relate to the previous speaker. I call on a lot of doctors. Many of them are Jewish, and they don't know my political thoughts. And it's very interesting to hear them right off the bat accuse anyone who speaks against Soros as being an anti-Semite. I am not Jewish, but I am not an anti-Semite. though there is so much polarization and division and labels that it's mind baffling to hear these conversations. Yeah, Jen, it sounds thoughtless is what it sounds like. And by the way, it's the way,

it's the cudgel that people are using, right? It's called the soft cudgel. They can hit you over the head with words and with labels. And if they can get you to anti-Semitism or racism, they've got the Trump card in place. And that is, don't cave to that. It's not the hard cudgel. And we got to make sure people don't get to the hard cudgel. Mao had the hard cudgel, Stalin had the hard cudgel. It doesn't go well when officials get their hands on the hard cudgel. But I appreciate that.

That is very interesting that you've got to speak back. I mean, people have to people have to be awakened from their slumber in some way. It's weird. I, I don't get it just to try. And again, here I am

just trying to understand what George Soros would say about what he's doing. I'm not saying here's a horrible, evil person. I'm saying I want to understand what the guy is up to so I can criticize it. At least if I could understand if he could explain to me what he was doing. But I never hear him getting out there and explaining it, except that I did hear his son talk about trying to help African-American families. Yeah, I think that most people, as we saw during this Coptic era, think they're the good guy.

Even probably the Nazis, they thought they were the good guys, that they were doing humanity for good. That's right. So very rarely does someone pursue a deliberately evil agenda for the sake of being evil. No, that's right well never i think so many people are stuck in this kind of like star wars movie type approach it's like hey there's the emperor and dark vader and like they're bad because they want to be bad like very rarely is that the case actually it's it's kind of an ideological struggle and it's how we define good and evil truth and lies i think is what determines what

is good and what is not yeah lies have got to be stopped and but but even so does distortion people need to stop and think about what they're looking at what they're seeing what their feet you know what how their internal world distorts things i had a young medical student on here who was a PhD in science and biology. And he went from, he moved from saying everyone who is taking issue with anything, any government policy as it pertains to the pandemic, they're evil. They must be interested in people dying. There must be something wrong with them. And therefore they must be evil and they must be stopped. And then he started getting attacked for not being exactly letter and verse, getting the party line correct. And he started looking at what some of these people were saying,

and he thought, well, wait a minute, this is insanity. So he started pushing back. Now he was labeled as evil. And so he completely switched over now to thinking, oh my God, this was ideologically driven insanity where people were falling victim to the propaganda. And that's happening everywhere. COVID was just an example of what's happening. It's not the only thing that occurred this way. It's happening this way constantly. We were primed for it somehow, and boom, it exploded on us, and it's going on to this minute. Some of it feels like Trump derangement or something, like that him being in office inflamed people so much that they still can't get over it. I think a lot of it has to do,

I don't know if you recall, but there was all these stories in the press when the hysteria was at its peak. These like so-called deathbed confessions where you had this random nurse or doctor at a hospital who was clearly lying about what had happened, but they said, oh, you know, my patient was, you know, we were, they were about to die. And their last words were, oh, I wish I could have taken the vaccine so that's kind of like right i wish i wore a mask that's like the noble lies that i find to be never acceptable but people that have a certain ideological bent say like rationalize their lies is okay because they think it's for the greater good even though you know it's well this is but this is the liability of thinking good and evil right if you think trump is hitler you're entitled to do anything to keep him out of office,

no matter how egregious, because you're fighting for what's good and right. But look, I guarantee you, I've been thinking lately about how people still cling to some of their ideologies during COVID that are so clearly now well documented to be false and hysterical and damaging and yet they cling to it to this moment and I thought yeah I bet I bet plenty of people in Germany at the end of World War II still told themselves they were doing the right thing all throughout even though they might even not even started with that idea once they got to it they decided it was right that's very hard for people to come off of that yeah i think it's kind of like embarrassing and humiliating like i don't

know about you but um i've definitely made new friends uh and contacts but lost a lot of acquaintances and friends along the way and some of these people are now kind of like normal and recognizing that it wasn't all crazy. But if you notice that like they they'll never actually very rarely will they come forward and apologize and say, Hey, maybe I shouldn't do that. It's a very rare human attribute. And I appreciate people that do recognize that they got carried away and that they owe some people apologies, but generally that apology never comes. So I would never advise someone to wait for it. I completely agree with

you on that. But back to this idea, again, using Germany as an example, everybody believes that they would be the person that would stand up to all the Hitler youth and all the German trends and would never be a prison guard or work for the, whatever it is. The reality is COVID proved that the vast, vast majority of people would just go along with it. The vast majority of people would do the wrong thing. They would succumb to this. And it's very few who would actually stand up and go, I don't think so.

Maybe we ought to take a look at this. And indeed, I'm sure back in those days too, what they had to tolerate if they dared to stand up, God knows as the hysteria takes hold. It's a mass formation. It's a hysteria. People need to admit to themselves that they were part of the herd and not some sheepdog that stood up and tried to move the herd in a different direction. Yeah, it speaks to the fragility of the human mind and wanting people, like a lot of people just want to go along to get along and they will do whatever is necessary, like literally whatever is necessary to do that um so it's not so

much about the truth to these people it's about fitting in being popular not being this so-called conspiracy theorist who's saying crazy things because the government's well and jordan to be fair it was a huge price to be paid a giant price if you dared to do anything other than what you were being told to do. Jen, you came back. You wanted to add something to that? Yeah. Actually, there's a lot of things that you have said earlier that pertain to my life. And it will be eye-opening for your listeners.

I'm the daughter of someone who was forced to go to war on the German side at the age of 17. He did not believe in this ideology and he was placed in camps and he was tortured. And luckily he was really good looking, placed in a French concentration camp. Two French women disguised him as a Frenchman. He escaped and it was the day before he was going to get killed. I lost my dad 22 years ago, who was a doctor. And he left me with very wise words. And as soon as I met you, I always thought, God, he has a lot in common with my dad. There's a couple of people I gravitated to, but I've been a longtime listener for you for a while. There are three pieces of my dad that are three pieces of advice that he gave me before he left. Never trust the government.

Go to the end of the earth to find the truth. And keep your legs closed till you get married. Sounds like my father-in-law. What was his name? We should toast him. How should we refer to him? His name was Dr. Gerhard Jordan, and he rounded with me probably since the age of eight. I probably was your kid that was hyperactive. I remember a time where my third grade teacher brought both my parents in and sat me down and said, your daughter is really disruptive. She talks a lot. She goes to the bathroom every hour. And I think she should be put on Ritalin. My dad got up on the table like a silverback gorilla, confronted the teacher and said with his thick German accent, you have got to be out of your effing mind. And then I told myself, I am, I'm going to sit tight. I'm going to have a self-talk.

And he told the teacher, she's one of the smartest kids I know. She knows wound care. She rounds with me. She, uh, you name it. Anyway. Um, what I, what I want to say is I was really disappointed with your stance immediately when COVID was launched. I worked for a company that was started by the NIH and deeply, deeply disappointed with them, the pressure that I faced, likely more than a submarine captain, but I am not a sheep. I remained pure and out of 3,000 reps, I was the only one that didn't allow anything inside my body. I witnessed a colleague have a paralyzed face. I witnessed another colleague have tremors. I witnessed a soccer mom have a heart attack the day after we had lunch and her friend on a Zoom call notified

her husband to go, that she collapsed on the call. And I knew something was really bad. I also have, I have 93 doctors in my phone and three stood up and aligned with the oath that they took as a doctor. I don't think you ever went against the oath that you took as a doctor, but you believe the information that you were fed. And, um, going back 25 years ago, my dad saw how medicine was changing. And even though I did pre-med at UCSB, he said, don't go into medicine. They're going to handcuffs. Well, he'd be, he'd be amazed. He'd be shocked at what's happening now. My goodness. But, but Jen, I gotta say, I never know quite what people are talking about when they say they're disappointed because there've been so many things I've been attacked for it. And it's never, of course, actually my position. It's

always what people say my position is. So, um, I'm sure you, you, you came around, um, you know, Jay Bhattacharya swam upstream a little bit before you did, but you opened your eyes and then you apologized. And that meant a lot. And you have a good heart. You help addicts. You're not bought by anyone. And you really do mean well for people and want the greater good. Going back to even what you said earlier in the conversation about Soros, the only person that can really go to bat and play at his level is Elon. And thank God he's a good chess player. But Soros started playing chess a long time ago. And he figured out how he could impact every single person in this society. It's been in a negative way.

And it's really interesting to see what moves are happening to get the chess pieces in place to fight back. Because if you think to yourself for a second, what if Elon put his money to hire DAs? That is not going to lead to really bad stories. There was a guy who just got out of jail and raped a girl in a bathroom. This is an atrocity. This is an atrocity that even that this happened and we need more people to put their money in places that can bring a greater good. And I know we have extremes out there. We have Trump that was an extreme.

We have Biden that says that he's going to unite everybody. Actually, he's been more of an extreme. So I'm someone who's always been middle of the road, but now I've become a fierce lioness mom that is all about protecting the future of my children and the future of children in America. And what is said on a mass agenda that the left owns our children, that's really, really sad. We need to protect them. We need to protect their innocence. And we need to have a lot of conversations with them to undo what's been done and teach love, teach acceptance, teach appreciation, teach people, teach kids that they should want to work and choose a profession that's about passion.

And for the people that can't work, we need to help them. But for the people that choose not to work, this is what we're perpetuating. We need to stop it. And I think Elon is the person that we need to look to. I was a little bit disappointed. You're disappointed about what? I was a little bit disappointed with who he chose to run Twitter. But now I think it's part of a chess move. And I think it's going to change the media landscape. We've seen viewership drop with Fox.

Let's let Jordan answer this. I'm gonna give him a chance to respond to you. Go ahead, Jordan. Yeah, no, I'm definitely encouraged by, by the way, that was an incredible story about the lessons your father taught you. And I can relate so much to those stories and that wisdom. I wish it would have been acquired earlier.

And I wish everyone could have a father figure like that who just incredible wisdom. I rarely hear of people standing up like that. And as you said, he was tortured and imprisoned. I mean, that's the hard cudgel. There it is. Yeah. But I think the one thing I would push back on is that Elon Musk as this savant chess player, if you look at Elon Musk's record, and sorry, I'm not one of his yes men on Twitter,

but it's been a little dicey from time to time. You know, this is a guy that has made I don't know if you want him to get engaged in politics. This is a man who had promoted ESG for a very long time, who voted for Joe Biden, who voted for Barack Obama. I'm not saying that, you know, there there was a great candidate on the other side or anything like that to his defense. But the idea that he, I think when you get into this, like, you have to observe objectively based on what they're doing at the moment in time and not, I don't think it's beneficial to try to, you know, figure out if there's some grand chessboard move. I think very rarely that is actually the case. And I think humans, as this era has showed, they have their faults.

They have their blind spots. Elon Musk is no different. He's a brilliant man. That doesn't mean he's brilliant at everything. And I think that this hire was misguided. Well, we certainly will see. Susan, did you want to say something? I hear you talking back there.

I just said it's true. It's true. Jordan, I thank you for joining us today. I'm anxious to hear what you are going to say at the convention. I'm even more anxious to hear what RFK Jr. says. I hope you'll write about it, report it tweet about it i'll look for that and um is there anything you'd like us did we miss anything anything you'd like to get at before we uh wrap up a little bit i i just appreciate you having me on and you know i i again just as some

of the callers were saying i i admire your unique ability to be able to change course amidst the chaos. So I just want to say I appreciate what you're doing. And thanks so much for having me on. My pleasure. Jordan Schachtel, everybody follow him, dossier, D-U-S-S-I-E-R,.substack.com. And also at Jordan Schachtel, one word on Twitter. Thanks, my friend. Thank you.

I see that I've still got another call or two I want to get to very quickly. Sorry about this Twitter snafu. What was that? Well, it wasn't plugged in or something. Yeah, something was happening with that connection. Drake, I'll give Drake a chance to. I keep promising I'm going to take calls and do just calls myself. So I want to take a

few minutes to do that hopefully okay uh drake unmute yourself and we there you are what's up uh i just honestly i just saw you doing this i didn't know what it was so i clicked on a request i'm sorry all right if you have any questions anything come to mind uh No, I just love Dr. Drew at the Dark. I just click on it. You don't have a word on your nose you want to talk about? No, no, no. Susan, does he want to talk to you? You're a big feature of that show. Let's get Josh up here.

That's funny. Just take a couple calls. Josh, what? Yeah. Hey, Josh, what's up? So so um you know it feels political today but i don't want to go there because i don't want to be political myself okay so i would just say that with the the female caller i looked at her twitter and she she wants to put biden in prison and it's like you know i i don't know why that is i is. I would want to ask her why she would think

President Biden should be in jail. And then with your guest, Jordan, I looked at his page and it seemed he was against this first transgender woman serving in the federal government. Do the Secretary of Health. Rachel Levine. Yes. Yeah, Rachel Levine. And he called her

a psychopath and i just wanted to ask i'm not trying to stir up anything i would have just wanted to ask him why he thought she was a psychopath maybe because she got a vaccine hopefully not because she's transgender because that just is so weird yep but but let's get past that because they're not here they're not here right now hang on but let weird. But let's get past that because they're not here. They're not here right now. Hang on, but let's be clear. Let's just be clear that having either a gender dysphoria or changing genders, nothing to do with psychopathy.

Nothing. Right. I was going to push him on that, but I don't think it's fair to talk about him when he can't talk back. Fair enough. So he's not here. But I just wanted to sort of preface that with that.

Good. And then I wanted to ask you, which is whoever's, you know, whatever's remaining here, it's just that how can we sort of get to where we can start to agree with one another? It's starting to get scary. Well, part of it is avoiding extremes like that. That's why I said what I said about my feelings about physicians and transgender treatment and things, because I could feel it. I could feel it going a bad place. And I just don't think it's productive to be extreme on either side.

There's ignorance. There is ignorance and there's fear and there's a lot of stuff, but it's on both sides. And we need to sort of get to the truth, ascend to the truth. I mean, you know, Jen, although she may have some extreme, you know, ideas about the current president, she was espousing some good ideas, right? I mean, she was saying, be moderate, protect your kids. You know, my dad had some good ideas, don't trust the government, all these kinds of things. I think everything she said was fine. If you can refrain from the excesses, if you can refrain from the excesses if you can refrain from the excesses i think we'll all be better off uh because if she hadn't said that on

her twitter you would only think this was a woman with a interesting point of view right something worthwhile to say yeah i i don't and again i don't want to just say that this is this tweet exemplifies her as a human being no no but you're not saying that but but it does give us both the chance to say hey knock it off everybody please knock it off it does not help you're not we're not allowed to have biden derangement well your people do have the people have biden arrangement if it was trump they would have impeached him five times already this is these extremes this is the point well the thing about you dr drew is all you said was this is like a flu i think that's what she was must have been talking about i don't

know what she was talking about really because i i didn't have time to get into it but let's let let me because if she was going to get into it i was going to state what my opinion actually was what my opinion was here's what i actually was saying and people cut it up into various pieces where they made it look i was saying something different i said a we just went through a pandemic and you didn't even know it happened so calm down let's let's not go nuts over this one the last one killed 300 000 people this one may kill a million it may be awful but let's just calm ourselves going from 300 000 to a million, we don't have to just destroy ourselves over that. That was one point I made.

The other point I made was that there are more cases of flu and flu is a serious illness and maybe you should think about that too and put it in a relative risk relative to this thing. I may have stated that a little too vigorously. I remember saying it. Well, it was at the very beginning.

That's what I was saying. It was at the beginning when I was trying to get everybody to calm down because my point was that panic, the press was causing panic, and panic was going to cause people harm. I found it very reassuring. But therefore, I said, please listen to the CDC and Dr. Fauci. They will get us through this. I always say, Fauci, I've known him for decades. I've relied on him. He's been a guiding light my whole career. I said that maybe I didn't

each time I sat down say those things all the way through, but those were the things on my mind. They were comparing previous pandemics which was a mistake that that was really my mistake you're saying the same thing now so why are people i mean that's what's so weird yeah i know it's weird right if you weren't as you know if you weren't as tough then uh you're still not really that tough now you still think you know that the lockdowns could have been done differently and that we didn't all have to just lock ourselves in place and suffer those consequences. Yes, we're having – and I also – the things that people seem to have forgotten. I was going to try to find this the other day.

I said this over and over again. We're going to destroy 8- to 15-year-olds. Remember me saying that? Yes. We're going to destroy 8- to 15-year-olds. And now it's on. Now we've got the aftermath of that. And that's exactly the group that's being hurt.

Kids started dying that we would look differently at the vaccine, but then the kids started dying, and there was nothing on it. There was no press. Because there was denial that it was happening, right? And so we still don't even know. But now we're looking back, and we're realizing, you know, obvious. I mean, I can understand this woman because her dad's a doctor. She probably thinks she's a doctor. My dad's a doctor. I think I'm a doctor, but I'm not a doctor. You're the doctor, Drew. You're the doctor. And so for me to come on,

for me to come out and say, you know what, Drew, everything you did was great except for this. It's like, well, you don't have the medical knowledge to say that really no they can she doesn't either well i'm okay with that yeah i mean but okay and you were treating patients and some of them weren't making it and you were really happy to have the vaccine once it came out for your older generation and i and i see actually i think that's what she was talking about she was talking about my enthusiasm for the vaccine at the beginning but some people died and it was not fun right you had to had to deal with that. Died of COVID? At the beginning, yeah. You were just chasing, you know. Oh, it was awful. And I had a bad case of COVID myself. And so, and I got it trying to get the vaccine. Now I ended up taking

the J&J vaccine, which is no longer on the market. It's too dangerous. And we, I was wanting the mRNA. I couldn't get it because I didn't fit a right profile. If you remember, it was rationed at the beginning. Even though I was treating COVID patients, I was not allowed to get the COVID vaccine. And then we started seeing trouble with younger people and the lack of efficacy and the lack of influencing transmissibility. And suddenly the risk-reward wasn't that clear for young people. That was what I've always said. And I have, and again, I think this is what Jen didn't like.

I have always vaccinated, even including the recent bivalent booster, my patients that want it. Now I've told them I can't recommend it overtly because I don't know, we don't have the data. But if you want to take it, I wouldn't object to it. I've had three vaccines. I think you've done a great job, Dr. Drew. And I feel like better than imaginable in some ways,

because you're still talking in a level-headed way. There are a lot of people that cannot do that. It's not possible for them to do. But I think we need more of that we need people to be thanks josh we need people to be just just take a deep breath uh and and not it's the excesses on both sides that i have been troubled by for a long time one thing i did like about jen i'm going to put it out there is that she is promoting her children's health and the future of america's children which i was kind of hoping that america's moms would stand up to this because you know we all save grandma and grandpa and they're

you know we can all hope that most of them made it out alive and she's reliant on the wisdom of previous generation but it's the kids it's the future of our of our next generation pregnant women and you know their babies and they're vaccinating babies in the hospital when they come out it's just it's really bizarre and well people but sorry we had um what's her name in here male vicky, and she presented some data and it looked like, okay. Well, the babies are having myocarditis. Susan today found a report of a cluster of myocarditis in infants and in whales. Yeah, but were those people who had COVID or people who were vaccinated

and had COVID? I didn't read it. But I, again, am also heartened by the fact that the Annals of Internal Medicine is starting to publish interesting papers i would just like mothers to make the right choice and use their instincts and jen has an instinct let her go with it do you want to talk to her listen i my dad was the same way jen susan pinsky i i appreciate backing me um no i have been part of the pharmaceutical industry

for 25 years and how it was 25 years ago is not how it is now. I know. And what I'm not as extreme as what I've been labeled as, um, because that one tweet about Biden going to jail was in reference to a child being raped. Um, so some things are taken out of context. Don't, don't I know it.

That's exactly the problem. So the vaccine was very helpful for a lot of people and very harmful for a lot of people. Yeah, possibly. If you have a history of autoimmune conditions, you have your body that's essentially attacking itself. And you were not given any chance to opt out of taking the vaccine, even if you had this. So where I had a big issue is I worked for a company started by the NIH right when COVID happened. And, um, I was very naively traveling following my husband on a trip to China in November of 2019. He had to go there and my sister took her two kids and I took my two kids and boom, we're in Shanghai Disney. Everyone there thought my husband had two wives and four kids.

We had a great time, but I was very uncomfortable traveling in a country that I didn't know the transportation system. My sister's a travel guru. Jen, we got to kind of get to the point here. I got to move on. So we went there. We came back, and my sister was very sick. Very, very, very sick. She likely had COVID, but it was before it became popular here.

We had no idea. And lo and behold, COVID then strikes, January lockdowns, everything. I think I got COVID too. The points I want to bring out is I promoted a product that competed against Pfizer's Lipitor called Crestor. In between Lipitor and Crestor is a drug called Bacol. Bacol was pulled from the market because it was linked to nine deaths nationally, two in Northern California. And then I learned more about, hey, if a drug is linked to one death,

the FDA pulls it. They certainly pull it to look at it. Yep. And then they can pull it off the market. There was another drug that caused cardiovascular issues that was a really good anti-inflammatory. Vioxx. Vioxx.

Right. Vioxx. And by the way, taking Vioxx off the market did a lot of harm. There were eight people with cardiac pathology, and it harmed many, many, tens of thousands because it was a great anti-inflammatory. But there was so much legal, because they had, much like people are saying, Pfizer looked at now myocarditis as an episode of serious side effect and then tried to convince the regulators that it's nothing to be concerned about.

They did the exact same thing with Vioxx, exact same thing. And when it was uncovered that they knew that it was associated with heart disease and that they had minimized it and convinced the regulators to ignore it, that's why they got in so much trouble. Now, why is it not the same thing here with the vaccine? It's kind of interesting, isn't it? That's one of the points I want to make. Also, when you get COVID and you develop your own immunity,

that's actually stronger than that that you get from the vaccine. Correct. And nobody was allowed to talk about this. Nobody was allowed to say that. You weren't allowed to say it. You would be canceled if you said it. Right. Think how insane that is.

I know. We were all just doing that. You could go and be a good citizen and go get your blood checked and find out that you have antibodies and donate your serum, which I did. But yet you, but in those cases, you have your own immunity that's fighting COVID. Then if you get a vaccination, you have actually a different immunity that is fighting the own immunity that you already have. Possibly. You've got to remember, at the beginning we were saying, well, the combined immunity might be better.

Remember that? And then it became clear that it is not. Right. But when we're following the scientific method, this is what you've done and trained to become a doctor. They took that away from everyone. They took away discourse they took away scientific discourse in the name of authoritarian centralized authority do as i say and that that is like that

and their position of of why they chose some of the things they've done in retrospect is because hey we had to do something and that is's not medicine. Of course it's not. I used to be, I would get hostile and aggressive to my residents when they would say things like that. Sit on your hands. Do nothing unless you know exactly the risk reward you're taking and then explain to me why you're justifying, what the literature says about it, and then have a backup plan.

But if you're doing something just to do something, you're going to kill people. But Jen, I've got to run here. You mentioned it right there. You mentioned one thing, risk reward. And I just wanted to say, with children and women that are pregnant, it's a very difficult risk reward to take. And that's really the important point because every drug out there, they always say not available for kids, not available. It's class C for pregnant moms. We don't advise it. And for only being studied with eight mice and where are those eight mice? And now we're going to advocate for it. I don't know a lot of people compared to you, but I knew five people pregnant. Four of them got the vaccine in their first trimester,

all lost their baby. The fifth one had the vaccine a week before she's due. Baby's fine, she's fine. That's not a number to correlate to the world, but my spidey sense has peaked. And I thought, is this safe? And why is this being pushed when we don't know? And that's all I wanted to raise with you.

And Jen, you've got a fan in Susan Pinsky. Yeah, just keep fighting the good fight. And we all need to bond together as women and decide what we want for our bodies and for our kids and for our future, you know. My body, my choice, except vaccine. Except vaccine. My body and for our future, you know, my body, my choice, except vaccine,

my body, my choice, unless you have done the vaccine, then you must, and it's not your body. It's my choice. No, it's important.

And no, and, and I, I believed it. I believe in, in, in, in my body,

my choice. Yeah. One, 100%. And I think that you've, you've got a struggle here that doesn't match up at all. I agree. Thank you, Jen. Appreciate it very much. Yeah. No, her points are well taken. And it was an odd time. And things were changing. It looks a little different in retrospect because there was

some lack of clarity going on the way there. But let's just frame it this way. You can take more risk later in life because of something, and this is going to sound harsh and cold, but this is how the calculus works. Years of life lost is a meaningful estimate. In other words, if a one-year-old loses his or her life, that is 79 years of life lost. If a 79-year-old loses his or her life, that is 79 years of life lost. If a 79-year-old loses his or her life, that's one year of life lost. And it's a very different, you're risking very different things in those two different populations. And therefore, your risk tolerance has to be different. And this is why, you know, I've been correct clinically with vaccinating my elderly patients. It's all working out very well.

I don't get it in the younger ones. I don't see the reward yet. Maybe I will. Maybe I will. I'll get there, but I don't see it yet. People are still mad at me for daring to give my patients a vaccine. You're all worried. If my patient said they wouldn't take it,

I would not get in the way of that. And I said lately, I've been the bivalent booster with them. I'm not recommending it, though some have taken it. And I try to help them understand that I don't have data. I can't make that recommendation, but I'm not going to stand in the way of someone taking it. The individual ultimately needs to be making the choice with the input from the medical caretaker. So, all right, Caleb, thanks for hanging around. Sorry, I know you got to get to the baby and upcoming shows, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on Monday, Viva Fryback, somebody I asked to bring back on Tuesday and Tom Renz.

That's him returning. Oh, he's coming back. He has more to say. He's coming back on June 28th. You guys loved him, and so we said we've got to get him back. And so that is him coming back in a couple of weeks. So we will get to that, and we'll see you on Monday with Dr. Kelly Victory. Our regular guys here.

RFK Jr. See you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated

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