Ask Dr. Drew - Oklahoma Predator Gets Early Release From Prison, Murders 6: Who Is Responsible For Jesse McFadden? w/ Ex-FBI Bobby Chacon – Ask Dr Drew – Episode 214

Episode Date: May 10, 2023

On May 1, convicted predator Jesse McFadden didn’t show up for court to face charges of soliciting a minor. Police in Okmulgee County & Henryetta, Oklahoma, soon discovered 7 bodies, and allege McFadden murdered his wife, her three children, and two missing teen girls before ending his life. “I did exactly what I promised I would do when I got out,” McFadden reportedly texted the victim from his court case, hours before the murders. Even more alarming: McFadden was released EARLY after serving 17 years of a 20 year sentence. Krystal Strong, who was r*ped by McFadden in 2003 when she was only 16, told reporters that she begged authorities to take the case seriously but the “justice system failed them.” Why was a violent criminal released and left so unmonitored that he could text threats to his victim? Who is responsible for setting him free? Bobby Chacon – a retired FBI agent and attorney – discusses this and other shocking cases of violent criminals being released early and committing worse crimes. Bobby Chacon is a retired FBI agent and attorney. He is also a writer / consultant on CBS’ Criminal Minds. In 1987, after graduating law school, Bobby entered the FBI Academy at Quantico. Bobby was assigned to the New York Office of the FBI where he worked the Italian Mafia (Luchesse Family) and Jamaican Posses. He is an expert in underwater crime scene investigations, crisis management, and counterterrorism. Follow Bobby Chacon at https://bobbychacon.com and https://twitter.com/bobbychaconfbi 「 SPONSORED BY 」 • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 GEAR PROVIDED BY 」 • BLUE MICS - Find your best sound at https://drdrew.com/blue • ELGATO - See how Elgato's lights transformed Dr. Drew's set: https://drdrew.com/sponsors/elgato/ 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome everybody. Today we're going to do a little true crime exploration. Our friend Bobby Chacon is here. He is a retired FBI agent and attorney, also writer and consultant for CBS Criminal Minds. He graduated law school in 1987 and entered the FBI Academy. He was assigned to the New York City Office of the FBI where he was, amongst other things, working on the mafia dismantling. And he has expertise in underwater crime scene investigations where he, I believe, created and manned a big team. So we're going to talk a little bit about what happened at Ohio, what's the updates, excuse me, in Oklahoma, where there was this crazy predator that got out of prison and did some unspeakable things, get an update on Idaho, and sort of get a general sense on,

I may even start with this, on what's up with the FBI and law enforcement, what's up with our sense of what even a criminal is in this culture. Let's get to it after this. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real.

We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say, I got a lot more to say. I recently discovered Paleo Valley. They have a line of products that align perfectly with the paleo dietary regimen. Goodbye to the limited rotation of eggs, burgers, and the standard fare.

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and they taste amazing. Try them out by heading over to paleovalley.com slash drdrew to get 15% off your first order today. Don't miss out on this opportunity to discover a brand that is perfect for your paleo lifestyle. Okay, everybody, certainly perfect for mine. I'm a crazy enthusiast about their stuff. Get that chocolate brown broth i'm telling you you will not be disappointed so as i said we've got bobby chacon in here retired fbi agent attorney he has multiple tv productions and he'll the whole production team he's been uh working with for quite some time we'll talk a little bit about that with us you can find out more bobby chacon chacon.com and of course twitter it is bobby chacon fbi where you can follow him there susan everything good there is bobby chacon welcome bobby Bobby Chacon, C-H-A-C-O-N.com. And of course, Twitter, it is Bobby Chacon FBI,

where you can follow him there. Susan, everything good. There's Bobby Chacon. Welcome, Bobby. Hi, doctor. Good to see you. You as well. So do you still want to talk a little bit

before we launch into this about your production company? Well, yes. I mean, sure. XG Productions is a collection of former FBI, CIA, DEA, NSA, all kinds of three-letter agency people who are now in the entertainment field. They do stunts, they do writing. We do all kinds of production. And so go to xgproductions.com. And if you're looking for an expert, that's kind of the place to go. Although, you know, many of us are WGA writers, so I am scheduled to be on the picket line soon, very soon. Because, as you know, we went on strike this week.

And so my first time in my life, I've been in a labor union because in the FBI, we weren't allowed to be in a union. We had an association, but we had no bargaining power. And this is the first time I've been in a labor union and obviously the first time I'm on strike. So I'll be on the picket line soon. Well, good times. And so, and God knows how long that's going to go on for. I saw some of the demands that have been made.

I'm thinking, oh gosh, they've got to find a way to get some sort of concessions from the streamers and whatnot. But be that as it may, that's what we're here to talk about today. The fact that you're around all the three-letter agency guys and gals, it feels like many of these agencies have been under attack lately. And it's been a very vague sort of attack or criticism that's been underway. I feel like it's been weak on specifics. Are there things going on we should know about that you're concerned about?

Well, yeah, I think, you know, Dr. Drew, my career in the FBI, my career in government spanned 30 years. And, you know, I was there, I think, in a sea change. And I don't know if it was a benefit or detriment, but I was, when I started, we a sea change. And I don't know if it was a benefit or detriment, but I was, when I started, we didn't have cell phones, we didn't have internet, we didn't have computers. And then when I left the FBI in 2014, you know, you couldn't, you couldn't do anything without a computer, you know, and now we were carrying around computers in our hands that were more powerful than the entire office was when I started in the mid-1980s. And along with the technology, as you know, the people have changed. Young people have changed. You know, you go from millennials, Gen Zs, I don't even, I've lost track of, I'm a

baby boomer and I've lost track of all the different generations, but as a population, we've changed and technology had a lot to do with that. And the people that populate these ages, the younger people I saw, and I don't want to sound like one of those old crusty guys that said, you know, when I in my day, blah, blah, blah. But I did see a change. And I think technology had something to do with that in how these people were being raised, how these young adults were behaving. And now they're populating a lot of these agencies, including my former agency and the others

that you mentioned. And I think that it's the young people just have a different mindset. I know friends of mine who've tried to raise their kids you know with the values that they will raise under in the 50s and 60s and 70s and it doesn't work it doesn't seem to work some it's some of it sticks but some of it doesn't and I think that you know I think that it's just a more permissive environment or mentality if you will i don't know how to label it but it's just it seems more uh you know open more permissive is is kind of the word that comes to my mind um and and i think that a lot of what you're seeing is a result of that so so So I've got a million questions.

I remember once when I talked to you about this, you had some concerns that people that were getting into managerial positions had not spent enough time in the field. Is that still something you're concerned about? Absolutely, I was concerned with that when I was still working. My first couple of supervisors in New York were really old time guys.

I mean, they were there forever. They had what we call the desk, which means you have a desk, you're the supervisor of a squad. And they had such knowledge. They were just the deep wells of knowledge of whatever area that squad was working. So when I was on the Lucchese family squad, the mafia, my boss had worked at Lucchese for years. He had been the supervisor of that squad for years.

When I moved over to work drugs and the Jamaican gangs, my boss there had the same deep wealth knowledge in that area. And then you had started having compression. And again, this is what I'm talking about when I talk about the younger people coming on. Everybody wanted to seem to want to go into management. Well, it was tough because those first line supervisor jobs weren't coming open. And so director Mueller, I believe,

came up with what they had the five year up and out rule. Then the agents association kind of negotiated, I think, seven years up and out. So you couldn't be a first line supervisor more than seven years. You had to either move up or you had to go out back down to a working agent level where I stayed my whole career, by the way. And so it was to to to open up the upward mobility of the management structure in the FBI. And and so these people that were coming in seemed to want to do that.

And in my generation, we can we just want to work cases. I left the FBI Academy. I told my my counselor, my class counselor that I was going to retire as a GS 13, which is the highest you can go as a street agent. And he scoffed at me and called me cynical and stuff. And but I never really desired to be in management, even though my four year degree, my undergraduate degrees in management, I never really desired to sit at a desk and push papers and manage people. I wanted to manage my own cases. I wanted to go out there and arrest the bad guys. And it seemed like there were many, many, many, maybe a majority of newer agents coming in, wanted to go up and wanted to climb the ladder. Now, if you want to climb the

ladder at IBM or, you know, a regular corporation, I get it. Every time you go up, there's a huge financial incentive. Your family's better off and by the time you get up into the executive ranks, you know, I understand that because you want to better your family. In the government, there's not that much. They have what's called pay compression, which means the president makes a certain amount and then the vice president makes a certain amount under that. And you come up and, you know, back then the president's salary was, I think, 400,000, which is pittance now when you think of tech people and stuff. And $400,000 was the top.

And everybody else in the government had to be below that. So there wasn't a whole lot of financial incentive to go up. The only incentive was power. And I'm always a little leery of people that do things in the thirst the in the thirst for power in the quest for power um it frightens me i understand the financial incentive i get that you want to make better for your family for your retirement whatever but when you're doing things in a quest for power it really that's what frightens me and that's what i well i i i got i got to go a little further with that because you know your work is obviously in human behavior and psychology as an FBI agent.

Who is pursuing power? I don't really get that either. I guess if you want to make change, if you're intent on making change and you think you can do something positive, I guess you have to have power to do that. What else motivates people for power, do you think? Oh, that's a deep- deep rooted psychological question i think like it may be something in their past maybe when they were raised they felt like they didn't have enough power you know but the the thing was in the fbi it's a very flat organizational structure the agent at the bottom has a lot of like we have a lot of autonomy like i went i ran my own cases

i did have some supervisors try to micromanage me. You know, you had some of that, but generally by and large, we weren't like a police department. We weren't like where you had a, you reported to a sergeant who reported to a lieutenant who reported to a captain, very paramilitary structure. The FBI was much more flat. You had a supervisor, he had 12 to 15 agents and they were out doing their thing. And if he was a good supervisor, he was overseeing them, but he was letting them run with their cases, maybe guiding them if he had the experience to do that. But by the middle of my career, I was working for people that had less time in the job than I did, less experience. And that lasted right through the end of my career. we're in Los Angeles, the entire management structure above me, to include the person running the Los Angeles field office, had less time in the bureau than I did and less experience.

That's not a bad thing per se, but it can be bad individually in individual circumstances. FedEx is one of those flat companies where they let the people just work out in the field and deliver their stuff. And that's been a very efficient way for companies like that to operate. So I'm guessing it's been very effective, which is why FBI has maintained it. You mentioned permissive. Do you mean there was more conformity back in the day? Like there's less conformity or less military structure? What did you mean by permissive? I think permissive, I think means, I think in my mind, permissive was when you look at a situation you're not familiar with, you don't pass judgment on it.

You just say, oh, well, that doesn't affect me. It's not my world. So I don't have a say in that. I don't have a right to have an opinion on that or whatever. So I'm going to let that be. I'm just going to let that happen and let that be. Because, you know, nobody wants to be called judgmental and things like that, right? So I think that permissive is that, you know, you see something and you don't say anything,

even though you might have an opinion on it. And it might not be the way you think it should be. And so you just let it go. I think that's the kind of permissive thing that I think that I see. So let me ask this, it, you know, criminal justice and violent crime seem to be on people's lips a lot these days. One of the questions I have has, have some of these agencies and justice department and police departments, Have we stopped or do we have a different sense of what criminal is now? Are we trying to re-characterize what a criminal is?

And how do we understand even what a criminal is when some of the stuff we're going to get into here in a minute is like, this is not a part-time endeavor these people are into. This is a lifetime of a certain attitude. And then of course, there is an overlay of drug addiction and a lot of a certain attitude. And then of course, you know, there is an overlay of drug addiction and a lot of stuff that creates terrible behaviors, but those are not even criminal people necessarily. They're just behaving criminally because of their addiction, but there certainly are criminals. Are we in denial about that? Well, I don't think it's monolithic. I think a lot of people have different opinions about

that, right, even within the community, the criminal justice community. But I think that, you know, when we started with mass, you know, the term mass incarceration, you make it makes it sound like they went up and they grounded up a bunch of young black men and put them all in prison at one time. That's not how it happened. It wasn't a mass incarceration to that effect. But that's the that's the idea you feel when you hear mass incarceration. Each individual person that was in jail, and there were a lot of them, did a crime, was afforded all the rights that everyone else was afforded, I get there have been wrongful convictions. That I'm not counting. I'm talking about in general. This concept of mass incarceration made it sound like there was this huge roundup of people.

But that never happened. Individually, those people, they were caught up in the system and they were put in jail for crimes they committed according to our Constitution. And so I think that there's a battle now. And they use that term mass incarceration, they used it previously, to kind of say, you know, we need to let people out of jail, you know, we need to let them out earlier. And we need to, you know, not hold them in jail until they've been convicted. And you see places like New York, where they've done away with a lot

of the bail restrictions, and things like that. And so. And so that's, again, that's an extension of this permissive environment where we're allowing crime to flourish. And look, I have never seen anything more adaptable, and there may be microorganisms that I'm not familiar with, than the criminal element. The minute you change the system, they will figure out a way to exploit that change for their own benefit. And their own benefit is staying free and out of incarceration. And so the criminal element is extremely good at adapting to the changes in the system and exploiting those changes for their own benefit. And even, I mean, I know defense attorneys,

their clients knew the change in the system before the defense attorneys knew. And they deal with it every day because that criminal community, they educate themselves about the system and they talk to each other. And prisons have become crime universities, in effect, and stuff. And so I think the criminal element has gotten more educated and it's been able to manipulate certain segments of the political environment to their benefit.

You know, we've heard a lot about the George Soros-funded DAs across the country that have all gone, they have their marching orders, get rid of bail, early release of criminals, and it's having, I think, a devastating effect, particularly on the big cities that are run by these George Soros-funded DAs. Is there a turning back from this? Well, I hope so. I mean, look, I think so.

I mean, they were called the disco. It was probably one of the most liberal. Hang on, Bobby. I'm going to interrupt you. Hang on. Hang on. Your computer is glitching and freezing. I don't know if you can hear me now.

But before you said the writing is on the wall, we didn't hear what you said there. And I'm not sure we're going to be able to, Caleb, does he need to refresh? Refresh? He should be fine. I'm lowering the quality of his video. Okay. He's just a connection. Okay, perfect. So say that again, handwriting on the wall. I mean, even, even, uh, can you guys hear me? Sort of Caleb. Bobby, if you could just refresh, uh, refresh your screen real quick. It's the universal Susan Pinsky, um, uh, refret, turn your computer on and off. Um, by the way, those of you over on the, the, um, Twitter spaces, I'm going to be taking some calls at some point today.

So do raise your hand and, uh, request to come up if you do, and I'll be bringing you up. Uh, you can going to be taking some calls at some point today. So do raise your hand and request to come up if you do. And I'll be bringing you up. You can talk to myself and Bobby. So, Bobby, are you back? Yeah, I'm here. You were quoting the book of Daniel and the writing on the wall. Yeah, I mean, even in, I think I said even in San Francisco, which is one of the more liberal cities in the country, they recalled their DA. They got that person out of there. They had a recall election. Of course, we had the same thing in Los Angeles, and the DA actually survived. But I think there's a little

bit of turning back from it. I hope there is, because I don't think it's going in the right way. There seem to be more and more victims of crimes. And the concern seems more with the criminals than the victims. Well, right now, Caleb just put something up on the screen there. Caleb, is that from the Memphis police shooting? Is that what that was? Yes, exactly. Yeah, these are from recent tweets that Bobby that you posted and retweeted of cases that have recently been from people who were incarcerated and then let out early or people who have long long long records and then have just been allowed to run free to commit more crimes against more people this is what I don't understand is do they imagine that people are going to suddenly

change when they have a long criminal history I Is that their belief or they don't care? No. Or they have to just keep letting them go until they do something truly egregious for which there is no coming back? No, I think because they do egregious things and they still get met out. I think that I think that after so the victim is kind of has center stage, you know, during the trial and at the sentencing hearing, once the conviction happens and the person gets incarcerated, the victims go home, you don't really hear from them anymore. And then the rest of the penal system, the incarceration system is built for that inmate and built for that incarcerated person. They are given

every benefit of the doubt. They are given every, you know, they are given the three meals and the exercise room and the TVs and access to the internet. So they, so then it becomes all about them and how we can best get them back into society. Right. And, and, you know, the recidivism rate, which is the rate at which people reoffend and get reincarcerated is enormously high. And, you know, the recidivism rate, which is the rate at which people reoffend and get reincarcerated, is enormously high. And that means that we're not doing enough to rehabilitate people while they're in prison. We're not doing to give them skills that they can apply once they're back out in society. So that's why you have these skyrocketing recidivism rates. So it sounds like your solution would be more about creating actual rehab from,

why are we not, is it not possible? Or is there anything we can do to rehabilitate some of these people? Or is the prison system just so out of hand that they've lost control? Yeah, I think they're overwhelmed. I think they're overloaded. I break down inmates kind of into three categories of people, right? You have career criminals. It's all they know how to do. And they reoffend because that's all they really know how to do. You have people that are in jail because of an addiction problem, and you're most familiar

with that and then you have the third type of inmate is is the person who commits compulsive right and that's the rapist so this typical sex eater they they have their portion to commit these crimes that compulsion inside of them it sees the physical cycle and and so those three types of inmates have to be dealt with differently you have to deal with the person who's totally sane and just a career criminal, knows how to break into places, knows how to get away with crime, but has been in and out of jail their whole life and then have no addiction problem. Then you have the person who's the addict from whatever substance they abuse,

and they have to be treated differently. And then you have the compulsive criminal, the serial rapist, the child rapist, who has a compulsion to commit these crimes, and they have to obviously be dealt with differently than the first two. And I don't think the system is set up to separate these types of inmates and get them the help each needs, because that help is much different yeah i mean certainly the addiction side is completely nothing zero goes on and uh and the mental health side generally which there's a large mental health component that's above and beyond just addiction itself people get psychotic and do horrible things it's there should be, we should have a whole system to manage that before they

engage in these behaviors. For sure. We just used to call that psychiatric care, just medical care. But in this country, we decided we can't do that either. So, you know, thus the homeless population, which is really the result of the dismantling of the state healthcare system. I just watched One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest today and was struck by how the American public at the time thought that was a documentary essentially

about the state healthcare system. And it is nowhere near anything. There was accuracies within it, but the stuff that was cinematic was just way, way, way over the top. And it contributed to the whole system being dismantled and the patients being disgorged onto the streets, the nursing homes, and the prisons. And none of those places do they belong.

Well, I mean, they might belong in one of those places, but they only belong there if they're getting the care that they need. If they're not getting the care that they need, certainly they don't belong there. But those places should be providing the care. I agree. If things go poorly and they end up there, yes, there should be care. But there should be care before any of that happens. We know how to treat these things. It's not a mystery.

It's not something subtle anymore. This is something axiomatic. This is 2020 whatever. That was 1963. We still are relying on the philosophies of Michel Foucault from 100 years ago and images from the 60s that have no relationship to mental health services in the 21st century. It is disgusting that we allow that to shape what we're doing. And we have people dying on the street seven a day here in LA County. A lot of that's addiction. A lot of that's fentanyl. A lot of it is serious mental illness that people are not allowed to treat, mostly because the category

of gravely disabled has been eliminated from the category which we are allowed to treat, while that is the largest category of what is out there. So that's my little public service announcement. Here's what I want to do. I want to do a little sketch of this Oklahoma case, then take a little break and come back and talk about it, okay? So this case is James McFadden. He didn't show up for court to face charges of soliciting a minor, which was his compulsion, as Bobby points out.

This is Henrietta, Oklahoma. They discovered bodies and alleged McFadden murdered his wife, his three children, two missing teens, and then killed himself. And there are texts, which we will show you, where he says, I did exactly what I promised I would do when I got out. And one of his victims is whom he was texting. Now it's all gone. I told you I wouldn't go back. This is all on you for continuing this again. There it is. There's some of those texts. It's classic. Abraham Lincoln actually used this crazy logic. He said he was talking about slavery

at the time, but he says it's like somebody comes and robs a stagecoach. You get out of the stagecoach, and the robber says, give me your goods, give me your wallet, or you will be a murderer. Because you didn't comply with me, I have to kill you. It's crazy thinking. So the questions are more alarming. McFadden had been released early. It served 17 years of a 20-year sentence. Crystal Strong, who we have some interviews from,

we'll show you in just a second. I guess I'm learning that Oklahoma is an 85 state, meaning the criminals only are required to serve 85% of their sentences as a matter of axiom, just routine. So that is probably where the 17 years came from. I don't see where three more years would have changed the outcome in this particular case. But again, this case highlights a lot of the challenges we have today. So let's take a little break.

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That is B-I-R-C-H-D-O-L-D dot com slash D-R-E-W. We're here with Bobby Chacon, FBI agent retired and attorney, discussing this Oklahoma case, this James McFadden situation. Bobby, let me show you again some of these texts he allegedly sent to, I guess it was his girlfriend at the time. You can throw that back up there again, Caleb.

I told you I wouldn't go back. This is all on you for continuing this. I did exactly what I promised I would do when I got out. I got a marketing job, making great money, and was being advanced. Been through two years now. I made a great life like I promised I would do with you, whatever that means. There was some, let me play a video from one of his early victims. It's very odd whatever was going on with this guy, but the early victim was sort of marginalized or at least was asked to please forgive him because he was strung out on meth when he

did these horrible things. In my experience, I have not seen methamphetamine. I've not seen any drug, in fact, turn somebody into a pedophile. I've seen them impair their judgment so much they don't know what they're doing, but not willfully going after a teenager. Let's play that video, Caleb, if you don't mind. Crystal was a child rape victim of McFadden's in 2003, and she helped to put him in jail for 20 years. I begged the DA a long time ago not to ever let

him out of prison because I knew that he would do this to someone else. The last time I heard from anybody was when I was 17, and the DA or whoever it was told me that Jesse was really high on meth, that he's sorry, things happen and I need to learn how to forgive. And I hung up on her. Crystal was a child rape victim of McFadden's. Crazy. So there she is. She was one of the original foci of his affection. And she fortunately was able to stand up for herself and take him to court and have him put away. But of course, we have him back again. What is your understanding of this case? Well, I believe his affections towards her were he tied her arms and legs to bedposts, cut her clothes off with a knife threatened her knife and then raped her and then threatened her that if she made more noise he would kill her so um he got 20 years for

that and when you set up the story initially before the break you said he he was um he didn't show up for his trial his new trial on solicitation and it's my understanding that solicitation happened from jail while he was still in jail on the charges against the woman you just saw. He was serving his sentence. He was in year 15 or 16 or 17 of a 20 year sentence before he got out. He was in from jail. He was soliciting a 17 year old to send him nude photos with some kind of contraband cell phone that he had gotten a hold of in jail. And so this is a guy that even while he's in jail, he's still offending. And yet he still got let out early. So this whole 85% thing, it doesn't matter. They knew he had reoffended, and they didn't keep him in. They just let him go and schedule

the trial for later. It's unheard of. I just, I can't even wrap my mind around the number of mistakes made in this case. But like some of the people, some of the victims of the families, the victims are saying, and I agree, I mean, somebody has to be held accountable. Caleb, you have lots of questions about this case. I know this one got you pretty good. Yeah, it I because I saw the first time I saw this case was it was originally on May 1st and it was because an Amber Alert went out. And whenever I looked it up, I just Googled this guy's name whenever this Amber Alert went out. And I was like, wait a second, this is the same name as some registered sex offender that's in the Oklahoma area. It couldn't possibly be this adult man who just got out of prison a year before.

It's not possible that he got married to someone who had three kids around the same age of the person he victimized. And then not only that, but then two other teenagers who were friends with his new wife's kids were over there. I'm like, no one stopped this guy. Surely it's not the same one. It's just a common name. And it turned out to be the exact same guy. Somehow he was able to communicate like these text messages that I'm putting up on screen. These were texts that he sent over to like what you were saying earlier to the person in his current case. This is his latest case that he was able. How was he able to communicate with the victim? How was he able to get in touch with this person? And then she says, actually, that she went and told the police about these text messages, and they didn't do anything.

I think that the clip that I was playing a second ago, it cut off, but it continues here. If I can, let me pull it up so you can see. I learned how to forgive, and I hung up on her, and I tried to suppress the memories and move on with my life. And the minute I heard about this this morning, I had a gut-wrenching feeling that those babies weren't going to come out of there. Crystal was a child rape victim of McFadden's in 2000. My question here is that, like, you can see, you can hear in her voice this absolute desperation.

Like, it is very obvious from her tone that she has been trying to get attention to this for decades and she's being ignored like when she was 16 she was attacked so violently that she says she can't have children so i don't understand how that doesn't equate into a life sentence when you take something like that away from someone why was this guy let out not only early, but why was the sentence only 20 years? It doesn't make any sense to me. Bobby, explain to naive Caleb. Naive Caleb, what the state of the circumstances of our criminal justice system? Yeah, I mean, it's all about it doesn't become about the victim anymore.

The victim is forgotten. And once the incarceration period starts, it's all about the incarcerated person. What can we do to better their lives? What can we do to placate them? And that's what it's all about. You have these prisoner rights advocates out there, you know, marching in the streets. And here you see this girl, you could hear her voice quivering. You can feel the trauma decades after the event. She's got a life sentence to this trauma. That will never go away. I can guarantee you that. Well, not only that, Bobby,

what I heard in her vocal quality was she feels responsible in some way that five people were killed. She should have been able to do something, even though, of course course she was powerless. She feels like I knew it. I knew it. Why wouldn't they listen to me?

Imagine that feeling. Forget her own trauma. That's bad enough. But now to feel somehow you should have been able to do something. You know, our own mayor here in California, in Los Angeles, Caleb,

you've been gone long enough. I don't think you saw all this, but he was famous for saying that we need to thank criminals as they come out of the criminal justice system for contributing to society by serving their time. Do you remember this whole, I forget exactly the rhetoric, but the rhetoric was so bizarre. It was like, we need to thank criminals criminals thank them for their contribution what are you talking about mayor garcetti i i don't know i don't know if this is especially infuriating to me now because i my kid is almost about to turn two years old and so it just i see something like this and it just it i maybe maybe i'm overreacting but it's just like this vicious anger comes upon

me when i think about it it's like the most infuriating part of this whole, like it's only been since May 1st when this happened. And the most infuriating part about this that I've seen is that he's not some genius criminal. He has no obvious political connections. He stole from his father. So he has no money. Obviously this guy is not like a Jeffrey Epstein out there. That's like conning people and has blackmailing people. So I don't understand. Naive Caleb. It might be just so naive. It's on full display here. This is wild. Let me ask this, Bobby. Didn't we do this in the 1970s? Didn't we do the exact same thing we are doing now? And we went running wildly away from it after we tried it for a while. I remember Woody Allen's films would highlight some of this stuff,

you know, the bleeding hearts and trying to welcome these people into their home and thank them for their time in prison, and these people would destroy them. Well, look, I've dealt with a lot of different prisoners, and I put a lot of people in jail, and I put different types of people in jail, and that's what I was referring to earlier. You know, different people have to be treated differently in the system.

And so, like, look, you know, a bank robber is going to rob for money, you know, and he can be rehabilitated. He could be given the tools to go out and earn a living. But it's these sex crimes people, these serial rapists, these child rapists, these compulsory, they have a compulsion. You know, when I was with the dive team a couple of years ago, we went down to San Diego and recovered a 15 year old girl who'd been abducted, raped, murdered, and thrown into a reservoir. We got her back. The guy who murdered her at one of his, he had done another one a year before they had found out, they realized, and he stood before the judge, I think it was John Gardner. And, and, and I, you know, he, he actually told the judge, it was almost refreshing almost refreshing he said if you let me out i

am going to do this again because i can't control it and so you know he was he was actually honest enough to admit it but we as a system have to admit it we have a system have to say these guys these men mostly men overwhelmingly right that's why i say these guys these guys don't have the ability to control themselves these are not bank robberies these are not fraudsters these are guys that have a psychological compulsion and maybe border physical compulsion doctor you're more along those are the expert there than I am but I can tell you these guys know it they know they can't control it they don't obviously a lot of most of them never admit that but the system has to deal with them differently than we deal with other prisoners

and other criminals. And so I'm looking, I, you know, I looked at some of your recent retweets earlier and it just brought right up to the front. Just looking down your recent tweets in February, Memphis police officer, Jeffrey Redd, he was murdered by a guy who had 39 arrests on his record. Why was he not locked up at arrest 38? Then last week, Texas suspect Francisco Oropesa, deported, he was deported four times. He was barred from owning a firearm.

The neighbors asked him late at night to stop shooting his gun in his yard, nicely apparently, asked him to stop shooting because their baby was asleep. He goes and murders all of them, goes on the run, and they just catch him yesterday. He's already, you know, attacked. He beat his wife and all this other stuff.

Then this week, you know, of course, Jesse McFadden, imprisoned, 17 years, 20-year sentence, and he's a registered sex offender, killed six. So I always thought, because I agree that we don't want to be filling up our prisons with people that have these small crimes. If you go and you, I get it. I get that we need to have justice reform, but I thought that one of the political promises of justice reform was that only non-violent criminals would be the ones that are getting released early. So how are all of these violent

criminals being let out? Who's doing it? Well, I mean, look, it's that permissive environment that I spoke of earlier. They know how to play this game, the activists, what I call the activists know how to play this game. For example, Dr. Drew just used the term pedophile, right? He would be vilified among that community because now what do we do? We use language, right? Language, they use it as a weapon. So now they're using the term minor attracted person right a map they're a map they're a minor attracted person right they're not a pedophile anymore so they're trying to water it down so now these people don't look as sinister they don't look as dangerous it's your children that are out there and we certainly don't want them to feel

stigmatized or in any way marginalized by their impulses. That is a level of insanity that I'm very concerned about. If these prisons are so overcrowded that you have to let all of these violent predators out and the number of people who are incarcerated for marijuana offenses should be zero. There should be zero. Those should be all kicked out to make room for these people.

I just listed three of them just from your Twitter page. It just, it's happening again and again. People are running around. So this is my, my big question here, I guess, is like, I, I know that you, I have a lot of family that actually are in Oklahoma and I know you're a retired FBI agent and you're a retired attorney. So maybe you can help point me in the right direction of how do we find out which politicians were responsible for this and letting Jesse McFadden out of prison so that we all know who to vote against

in the next election. Who was in charge of all this? That's a tough one. I mean, you have to go and you have to look at under what rule. And sometimes it's not even a law that the legislature passed. Sometimes a governor can institute

these rules and regulations. Sometimes a governor can institute these rules and regulations. Sometimes they change things. You know, we've seen the president use executive orders to do things that, you know, to usurp the authority of the legislature. So you have to look at, you know, what led him out. You have to go to his original release, see what that was, what rule, what regulation they did that under, and then find out who promulgated that. Was it the governor? Was it the legislature? If it was the legislature, find the legislation that it was and see who voted for it.

I mean, they make it as difficult as possible. Right. To figure out whose fault this is. The system insulates itself. It always the swamp, whether it's a state swamp or federal swamp, the swamp knows very much how to protect itself. They like to show this chart, which I found, which is comparing the incarceration rates of Oklahoma versus most other countries to show that there's almost like, I think this was a thousand in every hundred thousand people of the population that are in prison in Oklahoma. But I feel like

they're trying to reduce a number to make a chart look better rather than protect people. Yeah, it's ridiculous to ever compare our system to another country's. And, you know, they do that all the time with different things. I've lived in Europe. I've lived in the Middle East. I've lived in South America. In fact, I've lived in one of the most dangerous cities in the world in South America. And they have one of the highest happiness ratios.

They're happy people. But they die more often. The violence is ever-present. But they're happier. So you'll see a chart that says, well, they're happier than we are. You know, it's all BS. Rio de Janeiro. I lived there for three years.

150 cops a year get killed in Rio. 150 a year. Just in the city of Rio de Janeiro. A city of six million people. Right? We lose that a year, just in the city of Rio de Janeiro, a city of 6 million people, right? We lose that a year in the country, you know, on a horrible year. But so, you know, those things, these comparisons to other countries, there are so many variables that come into play when you're talking about other countries that we don't even know about, that don't pertain to our constitution or our way of life here. So I throw all of those out the window comparing us.

Having lived on different continents, it's ridiculous. But here, there is a battle. There is a war going on with the activists that want to decarcerate people and make more things permissive. I agree with you though. Like here in California, there should nobody be sitting in jail on a petty marijuana sales charge anymore. Those should all be out the window. Those people should all be released. The problem is when you

get up the ladder of crimes, what happens is a lot of times defense attorneys will plead an act, somebody will commit an act in the street, and it's a violent act. But by the time they get arraigned, they plea bargain it to a nonviolent act. So when they're incarcerated, they're treated as a nonviolent prisoner, even though the actions that they're there for were violent. And so you have to be careful when you say nonviolent versus violent. That categorization has to take place with the actions that they committed in the street, not what they were convicted on, not what they were pled to, not what they're incarcerated for, but you have to go back to the original place. And California, was it AB 109 or something? They requalified what violent acts are. I mean, you could beat somebody and rape them, and that's

not a violent crime. Oh, I forget. If that was the law that changed, it was within the past 10 years, then that actually directly affected us. Because if the story, this is what actually happened. Whenever we were living in Los Angeles, my wife was driving her SUV down the street and saw two homeless guys off to the side.

She thought something was suspicious, but she was at a stop sign. She started rolling again. One of the guys jumped in front of her car and acted like he had gotten hit. The other guy comes up on the side and he's like, I saw that. Well, maybe we just don't call the cops. Maybe you just pay us a little money here for an insurance thing. Well, the guys on the ground moaning, the cops come and they show up and they said, look, we can't, we can't do anything about these guys. We know they're faking.

They've done this to three or four other people, but they're, they've changed the laws. They are actually not allowed, or maybe it's changed since then, but when I was in Los Angeles, the cop told us that because of the new laws, they can't chase down people who break into cars because they changed that from being a felony to a misdemeanor. Hopefully, I don't know if they've changed it since then, but it's- And so fundamentally, this is the same, you know, my sort of, of course, expertise is more on the psychiatric side. And there is such a thing, it's a fairly large number of people, of human beings that require custodial care to survive. And we are in massive, abject denial that such a thing exists and it seems to me that with the same denial is applying to the reality of people that are sociopaths and are you know as you called them

career criminals that we we have a fundamental lack of belief of how the human operates it's it's this weird i we did it in the 70s, the second time in life we've lived through this, where we've decided an ideology will brush this all over, we can make it all right. You cannot change human nature and certain human behavior. There's certain things that just require certain input. Think of any other mammal, trying to adjust a behavior of another mammal

that is way outlying for various reasons. It doesn't really change. You have to change how you manage that mammal. And so humans are no different, just no different. Of course, we don't want to make a mistake, know we don't have unnecessarily putting people in like you said i mean there's so many as uh my friend mark garagos always calls it chicken stuff things out there that end up in prison too we want to get that right right but we also want to get the other end right too right exactly you know calum it was a good point you made like like and you said dr the new law like you can pull out a knife and and

hold it out to somebody and say, give me your wallet. That's not a violent robbery because they didn't put the knife to your skin or they didn't thrust it in. Now, a generation ago, I grew up in New York. There was a very famous case, four or five young guys, young black men surround a white guy on a subway and say, hey, you got five bucks for us. And they hold out a very large screwdriver. The implication was clear. They were going to thrust the screwdriver into his neck.

His name was Bernie Getz. He pulled out a gun and he shot them all. And that was a seminal case in vigilantism or whatever. He knew he was about to be set upon by these, but they were going to beat him to an inch of his life if they didn't kill him. They were going to use that screwdriver that they had in their hand to hit him or kill him. And so he got the jump on them. And yet he was vilified. He was tried. This was under Mayor Ed Koch years ago, who was a good mayor and did a lot for law and order then.

But that was one of those seminal cases where people said, oh, you can't shoot somebody because they pull out a screwdriver and threaten you with it. Really? Well, that could be a deadly weapon if you thrust it into somebody's neck hard enough or you thrust it through their eye, you're going to kill them, you know? And so where, where do you draw that line? You know, I'm armed every time

I leave the house. Now I live in California. You know, if somebody tries to carjack me, they're going to die. If they try to, to, to the thrust, uh, a screwdriver into my neck or my family member, they're going to die. That's all there is to it. I'll take, I'll hire a lawyer. I have professional liability insurance, you know, and I'll get a good lawyer and we'll see where that goes. But I am not going to allow my family or myself to be a victim of violent crime. Now, I realize, fully realize I have a huge advantage in that respect than most people. I'm trained to use a firearm. I've carried a gun all my life. My wife knows how to use a firearm and we have the legal ability to carry them. Many people don't. And that's a problem.

You know, so my family mostly lives in places where they can protect themselves. Because, you know, if you're going to wait for 911 to show up, a lot of times it ain't going to happen. Right, right. That makes sense. That's for sure. So my last question has to do with the woman, both of the women, actually the woman on the video

and then the woman from the latest case in this McFadden case here. She says that they have been talking to the DA about this case multiple times and repeatedly were ignored. Even with those text message, with the evidence, like it looked like from the text message screenshot, he had sent a photo to this girl.

So they have tons of evidence on this guy. Why would the DA ignore the actual victims? Is it, does it seem like they don't have enough evidence? Does there, are there things that are more pressing cases, but walk, it seems like it's something like a,

like to me, it almost seems like risky for reputational harm as a DA to allow this ticking time bomb to keep walking around and not do anything about it? Well, I mean, one of the things that DAs has, DAs have prosecutorial discretion on when they can bring charges. And they also have immunity, you know, qualified immunity about, you know, they can't be held accountable. And that's one of the things that needs to change. I mean, during the whole defund the police and police reform movement, you started hearing about police losing qualified immunity and things like that. Well, the same thing should happen to DAs and really the same thing should happen

to judges. Judges can't be held civilly liable for that, but they should. I mean, if they make a mistake of this magnitude and six people lose their lives, somebody should be held responsible, if not civilly, criminally, whatever, on either side, the prosecutor should be called to account for that. And they should be brought up on charges. The state should bring charges against that local DA for not moving on that. Because look at the consequences. Look at the consequences of their actions. And they have insulation. Prosecutors have that immunity. They can't be held accountable. And I saw one of the family members in this case. How can we assail that we how can we assail that

how can we sell how can we assail that uh immunity that's really a problem it's it's got to be activism to start like just like they want to like the defund the police movement wants to attack the the the the unity of the civil or the uh the immunity of the police when you're in that capacity so so so i mean and we there needs to be looking at issue and and raising that with the legislature and saying we need to take unfortunately the legislature has a lot of you know formal problems in it and you know and lawyers in it and stuff and they all kind of stick together it's that that swamp protecting itself again let's uh let's take a couple calls here you and i if you don't

mind we've got a bunch of people with their hands up um let's try this is jp uh as i've always say you have to unmute your microphone lower left hand corner caleb has a nice cartoon that shows that and jp you're up when you unmute yourself. Oh, thanks, Doc. Thank you. So I have a little bit of intimate knowledge with this subject because my father, who's gone now, but he worked in a medium security prison out in Chino, which is, I think, about 40, 50 miles east of L.A. And his charge was to teach the cons and bring them up to high school equivalency. Okay, so he taught English and math.

And he had maybe, I don't know, two or three classes, anywhere from 15 to 20 some odd cons in each class. Okay, so small sample size, I realized. But I would go out and I would visit them every once in a while and, uh, you know, talk to the cons. Cause I grew up in East LA, which is just rife with this kind of gang activity and on and on and on. So, um, one day at lunch, my pop, he goes, uh, just out of the blue, he just goes, what do you think the average literacy of these guys is and now keep in

mind this is a medium security prison so it's um any anywhere from first timers you know 18 year olds all the way to lifers okay so yeah he had the whole rent the whole gamut and you know very racially mixed mostly latino uh some black a few whites um And I said, well, I don't know. You know, I just took a wild stab. I said, eighth grade, seventh grade. And he just kind of laughed. And he goes, well, it's probably somewhere around maybe third or fourth grade, if that. And for the most part, it's just functionally literate.

So for people who don't know what that means it means street signs labels you know things like that yeah but read a book never read an even a lot a short newspaper article never so you know uh it became clear to me later on and i'll make my point on this um you know i got kind of interested in this not in school you know in a formal setting, but as just a human interest kind of story to me. And I found the rates, the correlation between illiteracy and crime is so high. I mean, it's astoundingly high. And it just made me reflect on my upbringing. Like I said, I came up in East L.A. and, you know, we have the highest dropout rates probably in all of L.A. You know, gang, you know, high gang participation, at least when I was coming up, high teen pregnancy, tons of drugs.

And, you know, that basis is always there for, you know, just really low performance educationally. Now, the rub here for me is I found out later on, because I was always interested in art as a kid. I mean, I played a lot of sports, but I was always interested in art. And I found out later on, just by chance, that study after study after study, and Doc, you should know about this, I would think. But studies have shown that when you introduce music in particular, there's something about music, I don't know what it is. But when you teach a young child music, for instance, but this also pertains to the rest of the arts. But there's something about music. You introduce a young child to that.

And the studies have shown their academic achievement rises. And their participation in criminal activity drops, you know, as they get older. I mean, this is almost conclusive, you know. And so when you look at, for instance, LAUSD, and I'm a product of LAUSD all the way through 12th grade, and I went to public university, I went to UCLA. What do we see the government defunding in schools? Isn't that interesting? It is. Bobby, do you have an opinion about this?

Yeah, no, I totally agree. I love Bobby Chacon as a fighter, by the way. He was a great fighter, too fighter he was one of my favorites yeah jp makes some great points and i think that like his father probably changed lives i think that that the that there are and i don't mean to sound if i sounded earlier i apologize but i think there are a lot of people in the criminal justice system that can be rehabilitated given the education. But if you look at the inner city community and the lack of education, we don't fund their schools enough. They have bad schools. Most of them come from single, many of them come from single

parent households. When you look at the correlation that JP was talking about, that there are certain factors that feed into that lifestyle. And if you look, you reverse engineer it, you say, where did this person come from? Well, they came from a bad school and a bad home. Those are the two things that kids, that's where kids spend all their time, home and school. There are bad schools and a lot of them are from bad homes. And to ignore that or to label someone as racist

because they're trying to say, you know, missing fathers have a lot to do with how young males are raised and how they end up. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. Statistically, it bears out. And JP was right. There's a correlation with that. We have to give them better schools. That's going to give them better socioeconomic opportunities as they get older to get into a college or get a job, get into a vocational program and get into a job. We're failing them at the very basic levels, you know, and so that's what we're seeing. And so I would argue that even if illiteracy isn't

the core causational issue, certainly by giving them that basic skill, you increase the probability of being able to engage meaningfully back in the world. In my experience, when people really turn it around after having criminal activity, there always is some emotional turnaround. It is, as Bobby, you're saying, the adverse childhood experiences, we call that, the EACs, the ACEs, the adverse childhood experiences, we call that, the EACs, A-C-E's, I'm sorry, the A-C-E's, the adverse childhood experiences that result in the traumatic dysregulation, that result in an inability to participate in school and learn, and then a likelihood of acting out in ways that are aggressive, young males particularly, and off they go. And so to turn that around, there's got to be some re-regulation, and oftentimes it's 12-step things or therapeutics and things, and they have to offer that too.

But certainly, even if you offer that and don't offer them the opportunity to learn how to read, I don't know how much good that's going to do if they go out in the world and try to get a job and they can't read. And in my experience lately, I've noticed that that is one of the things that is most often left out of mental health treatments, addiction treatments, is the vocational rehab, the getting people back in the world and participating. Of course, if you're disaffected, you're not in the world, you're going to have all kinds of funny feelings about the world you're in and try to find ways to survive.

You know, JP mentioned chino state prison and i'm familiar with that because when i was running the fbi dive team i went to commercial dive school in wilmington here in the port of long beach and i found out about this program at chino state prison they were literally teaching them to be commercial divers they were giving them the skills and these are pretty hefty skills um but it's all more blue collar welding and stuff like that. And learning how to work on a diesel engine. And they were actually giving the inmates the opportunity to come out with their commercial diver's license. They'd go to the Gulf of Mexico, they'd live, you know, 90 days out on an oil rig, 90 days back, 90 days out. And you can make a

really good living. And they were providing them with this license. When they left prison, they could go and, you know And one thing inmates get used to is sleeping in small cramped spaces. Well, when you're out on that oil rig for nine months, you're sleeping in a small cramped space, but you also have no way to spend your money. So you come back with three months worth of salary. And so it was a good program.

And programs like that should be applauded and increased. They need to give people the opportunity when they get out not to fall back into that life. Anna, unmute yourself. Anna 808, I think it is. There you are. Hello. Hi there. Okay.

Yeah, I'm noticing a lot of the crimes that are going on is actually a lot of these babies that were born to mothers addicted to meth, they don't have impulse control. There's a lot of us who have taken on children who were born addicted and there's nothing to help with developing their impulse control. Now, interesting. So they're not born, you know, technically babies aren't born addicted. They're born dependent or exposed. And that doesn't necessarily mean they're ever going to get addicted even because that has a genetic basis to it that they either get that gene or they don't. But the impulse control issues, yes, there's all kinds of in utero phenomenon that can add to that.

But why aren't we creating tracks for managing that for kids if you're seeing lots of that? Because those are manageable things. We don't have any type of resources to help these kids. Where? Where are you speaking specifically? Sounds like a good watchdog. In Hawaii. Hawaii. Yeah.

Yeah. How old are the kids you're talking about mostly? Well, I'm seeing a lot of kids that are now in their 20s. They have been in and out of the ju Julie system since they were in their teens. And they have no impulse control, but they just keep getting let out, let out, let out. How about Bobby's observation that a lot of them don't have male authority figures or dads? Is that often part of it? A lot of them were taken away during childhood by cps and adopted

out some of them were in the foster care system pretty much their whole lives um so there's a there's a component of that yeah the foster care god bless it but it those those kids come out of very high risk yes they feel. They have trouble trusting people. Yes. Even in good foster homes, it's just hard to, they have these attachment problems that are just profound. Big time. Yeah.

And so I've been, I'm worried that we haven't, do you have some special training, Anna? No. I actually am raising two kids. They're now in their teens that were born on drugs. Thank you for this. But I'm fearful that we've developed this incredible over-reliance on social services, as those social service agencies, social service case managers can manage very complex neuropsychiatric disorders they really are not trained to do that and we keep talking about putting social workers into the you know the

police force and social workers into the case manager into the social workers into the the foster care that's just no i think this is we need much more intensive therapeutic services, and we're not creating enough psychiatrists for this or systems for it. Yeah. I think there needs to be stricter testing of women when they longer held accountable when they do damage their children in utero with drugs. Yes. And I'm sympathetic to the movement that way, but guess what? This, again, what I talked about earlier, this fundamental lack of understanding of how humans work, you're going to go get more damaged kids. As the word that Bobby used at the beginning, if you create more permissiveness,

was that your word? I'm going to look it up. Permissive, yeah. You used the word permissive. You're going to get more consequence. That's just how humans are. And you've got to deal with reality when it comes to human beings. So there we are. Bobby's shaving his head yes.

Are you still hearing me? Yeah, I don't know what to add. Look, we can do a bit of a question. Yeah, you don't know what to add to that. I know. It's the answers that are tough. Yeah. I have a niece who's a schoolteacher in Florida,

and half of her battle is getting parents involved in their children's education. Because it does start at home. the school can only do certain so much. And, and, and, and sometimes, you know, she has like a 20%, 30% attendance at these parent teacher nights. Uh, you know, that means 60, 70, 80% of her students, their parents don't show up. That, that has been a multi-decade observational reality, which is that the participation of the family system and the parents and the educational child determines educational success. Obviously, if you have total chaos at home and you're involved in their education, it's going to be a problem. But generally speaking, if you have a reasonably stable environment and you are showing at least – I mean, look, they've studied this. They've gone to the law schools, the Ivy League schools, and they've seen certain patterns in certain groups and asked, what was it that caused the success?

Focus on education, delayed gratification, a cultural attitude of special purpose of their youth, and then stability and focus, you know, family involved in the education and funding the education. That's it. There it is. You know, it's not that difficult. But if you have chaos at home, if you don't value education, if you don't understand education, if there's drugs and alcohol in the home, or if somebody's incarcerated, having an incarcerated parent is an adverse childhood experience. And you have more than three of these, you're going to have problems. You have more than three adverse childhood experiences, there are going to be symptoms in adulthood, period, end of story.

And we've, by the way, we've lived in a time when we've forgotten, we don't acknowledge that divorce is an adverse childhood experience. As I said, an addicted parent is an adverse childhood experience. A parent who's incarcerated is an adverse childhood experiences. That's it. They seem like things that we've sort of swept under the rug or allowed to be normative in our culture. They affect children. And if you don't recognize that, we do it to our great, great, great detriment. Bobby, are we going to wrap things up? Susan, any questions?

Hey, Drew, how much does the new pot come into play with these? The new cannabis, the story is just getting cold. I've told, I really see cannabis more as destroying lives that are underway. It makes people who are involved and engaged in work stop working, stop being able to function. It creates a lot of depression and panic, anxiety, and now we're seeing cannabis psychosis on a regular basis. And that, of course— And it could lead to meth, right?

It could lead to meth. Not as much as it used to, frankly, because the people, the power of the cannabis has almost opioid-like effects. And so the people that like the cannabis stay with the cannabis rather than going on to something else the way it used to happen. Well, I was just thinking like,

you know, this woman is from Hawaii and there's a lot of weed. A lot of drug stuff. A lot of drug stuff. But a lot of homeless people there too that aren't being properly treated. A lot. Yeah.

And it's, you know, it's natural. It's not bad properly treated. A lot. Yeah, and it's natural. It's not bad for you. But we're finding now that it's really bad for these young kids. Yes, certain kids, certain people. Because they're getting high levels of hallucinogenic THC. High, high, high levels. Way higher than ever before. And it is having different effects on the brain.

And we've had that experience in our own life. So we know. We've seen it firsthand. Bobby, anything else you want to not me but my kids sort of point out before any other places and when people look for you anything coming up uh i know you were going to be at the picket line but is there still something coming to air soon uh no i don't think i have anything i'm i'm working on a film i'm writing a film um uh and i'm writing a book but uh other than that nothing no nothing is grossed enough to

to talk about yet um i might have something coming up this summer that would be pretty exciting um that i still can't talk about yet because it's not it's not great solid yet but um but yeah maybe soon but no still you know entertainment industry it's about having a lot of irons in the fire until one of them catches yeah yeah that's right i keep throwing shit at the wall as we say but uh it it hopefully none of it's actually shit it's just more stuff you know let's see what sticks and uh yeah appreciate you uh spending time with us and i'll be anxious to hear what that yeah we'll have you come back yeah come on back and talk to us about it anytime thanksacon, everybody. We have a slot. BobbyChacon.com.

Our crack producer, Emily, has been booking us solid into the next month. I know. I want to take some caller days. I'm just answering questions. Hey, this cold-ass Dr. Drew, I want people to ask me questions. They're very gung-ho, she and Kelly. But when breaking news comes, then we'll slip him in. We don't want any of that, though. We're going to avoid thinking about it in advance.

What's that? Any breaking news for Bobby Chacon. No, no. I think the last time he was here was after the Mandalay Bay experience. Is that the last time? I think so. Wow, it's been a while. Ed Dowd on Monday.

There might have been one in between. Ed Dowd apparently has some really interesting, he asked us to come in. He's got something he wants to share. So whenever Ed Dowd says he's got something interesting, we want to listen. It's breaking news. Nikolai Petrovsky on May 9th.

Carol Roth, May 16th. I've got Nicole Sapphire somewhere out there. Maybe the 15th. I don't know if that was cleared up. Same zone. And I would like to do some caller shows where you just give you a chance to give me a call, see's on your mind you know a lot of covid questions still out there and uh i don't know if you saw i saw a video recently where um the director of the cdc

walensky was asking about some of her mandates and they're they're really starting to turn the heat up in the congress now trying to get an understanding of why the excesses this has been my complaint from the very beginning the excesses with mandates the excesses with lockdown where did this come from who is driving this how why why did this happen and how do we make sure this doesn't happen because we're sheep somebody on uh rumble wanted to know if there's liquor psychosis. Oh, yeah. But you have to drink a lot. Well, you drink enough. I mean, everybody

has seen, of course, people intoxicated. Your personality can change. You can become aggressive. That's what people get in bar fights. Blackout. But an actual psychosis is usually associated with advanced liver disease, or at least if not advanced liver disease, at least what's called acute sclerosing hyaline necrosis of the liver.

So the liver can't metabolize what's coming out of the gut, and you get this intoxication with essentially nitrogenous byproducts, and you develop kind of a delirium. Head on over to New Orleans during Mardi Gras, and you'll see it. You don't see, again, it's called hepatic encephalopathy in that case, and they can be very strange in what they're thinking and seeing and um but it's it's advanced liver disease more than the alcohol directly all right good question oh yeah thank you molten salt all right uh that was molten salt always asking good questions let me look quickly at the restream before i uh. Oh my goodness.

Somebody's saying, what's the podcast brought to you by? Lockdowns, mandates for practice for biosecurity state. Well, see, these are the things that in Italy that seemed to be true. What's the question? In Italy, that seemed to be true.

That when the Lombardi politicians locked down Lombardi, there's one politician on the record saying that's what he was doing. He did not expect to reduce COVID. He expected to bring Chinese-style government. And he had a Sinophile. He was a Sinophile.

He wanted to bring totalitarianism to Italy. He's on the record saying that. And then we followed everybody into the abyss for reasons that were very, very unclear at the time. Just a quick note. We have some great sponsors now, and we'd really appreciate it if everybody would help support the show by supporting our sponsors.

Buy the Paleo Beef Sticks. Go ahead and get some spike protein removal therapy. This is Susan's project, Make Her Happy, number one. Little Genius Sale. Number two, we understand people are sort of complaining about the amount of stuff. It's all healthy stuff bridge gold for everybody who's worried about the stock market trash trashing to this week um and also we you know we really appreciate your viewership um a midnight writer says alcohol only causes violence and violent people that is not true

that is actually not true uh it's generally true, but not exclusively true. I've definitely seen benzodiazepines and alcohol cause marked personality changes in people where they become extremely aggressive and not intoxicated, the nicest, kindest, most nonviolent people you ever met. In fact, I remember one time we did an induction on a young man, great guy,

but they gave him the IV Versed or Valium, and he became delirious and violent. Oh, my God, was he violent. And he was, I mean, just in an absolutely altered state. And, you know, when you're on drugs, if you don't have clinical sort of impressions alongside the science, you can get off track a bit. So it's one thing we should be able to learn. Somebody's promoting Tucker Carlson on Rumble. I banned him. It's not real.

I banned him. It's a fake. Yeah, bots. Faker. Liberty Ninja, I will be happy to. I can do lots of talk about alcoholism. I banned him. It's a fake. Yeah, bots. Faker. Liberty Ninja, I will be happy to. I can do lots of talk about alcoholism. I know it well. And we can talk about when you call me in, when we do call a show.

We'll try to do that then. All right. But we are out of time today. We are back, as I said, on Tuesday, Monday with Ed Dowd. Monday and Tuesday. At 3 o'clock. And then Nashville, we're going Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, so we won't

be having a show those days. And was there a guest on Tuesday? Did I just read that? Yes, it's Nikolai Petrovsky. Yes. All right, and we will see you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational

purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911.

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