Ask Dr. Drew - Ole Miss Student Deaths: Shop Warns Undercover Cops “People Were Dying” From Their Smax Pseudo-DHM Kratom Pills – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 671

Episode Date: September 30, 2026

Two Ole Miss students, Aidan Hamilton, 18, and Robert Strang, 20, were found dead on the same day. New police documents link both to “Smax” Pseudo-DHM, a “high-potency MGM-15 product” chewable sold as kratom by a smoke shop. Before being raided, the shop’s staff reportedly told undercover cops not to take the pills because “people were dying.” The American Kratom Association, a kratom advocacy group, says the product’s compounds “do not occur naturally in the kratom plant. They are synthetic derivatives or chemically manipulated forms of 7-OH.” When the news first broke of the college student deaths, Dr. Drew suspected the investigation would find multiple drugs were involved. This was later confirmed by reports revealing that Stang “took a Xanax bar the afternoon before he was found dead…. Investigators found 20 to 30 nitrous oxide cans and his roommates said Strang “would use whippets daily”.” World-renowned brain health expert and psychiatrist Dr. Daniel Amen joins Dr. Drew to break down what synthetic opioids do to the brain, the alarming availability of Smax-like products in gas stations, and the fatal “Celebrity Killer Cocktail” of mixing benzodiazepines (like Xanax) with alcohol, opioids, or other drugs. High-stakes poker champion Garrett Adelstein discusses his memoir “Beneath the Cards” detailing his personal battle with gambling addiction, clinical depression, and his side of the “Jack-Four” cheating controversy. Garrett Adelstein is one of the world’s most respected and feared poker players. For nearly 25 years, he’s dominated the tables and won millions of dollars along the way. After becoming embroiled in the “Jack-Four” cheating controversy, he stepped away from the spotlight to write Beneath the Cards, a memoir of his successes and setbacks, available at https://amzn.to/4e6w8Of. Follow at https://x.com/GManPoker Dr. Daniel Amen is Founder, CEO, and Medical Director of Amen Clinics. Double board-certified in general psychiatry and child/adolescent psychiatry, he is a former U.S. Army infantry medic, a Distinguished Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association, and a 12-time NYT bestselling author. Follow at https://x.com/DocAmen 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My rec league goalie says he plays for the love of the game. You gave up six goals last week, Steve? Maybe play to win, huh? Like with Bet365, I get paid the second my team goes up big with early payout and can cash out at any time before the game ends. Steve, Bet365, the home of winning early. Must be 19 and older, Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

If you were someone you know is concerns about gambling, visit connectsontario.ca, or call 1866-5-3-1-2,600. Terms and conditions apply. today we have some information also on those unfortunate Ole Miss students, the tragedy of the two overdoses there. They apparently both had purchased a derivative of Kratum called S-Max pseudo-D-H, which is essentially a highly concentrated version of 70H, plus they were taking Xanax, plus they were taking nitrous oxide. Of course, the press misses the entire story. It is the combo, as Dr. Yosef and I predicted yesterday, of benzodiazepine with an opiate or opioid. that creates the big trouble.

And nitrous oxide addiction is real. We'll talk to Dr. Dan Ayman today, a little bit about the brain effects of nitrous oxide, as well as ADHD. But first, we are going to talk with Garrett Adelstein. He is one of the more feared poker players in the world. He's written a book about this. You can follow his, oh, shoot, let me get the, there we are. He can follow his ex.

There's the book beneath the cards, and the ex tangle is at G-Man Poker. Talk a little bit about the Jack 4 controversy and his experience with depression, as well as whether or not gambling addiction ever gripped him and what we mean by that and what he's seen with that. All of this after this.

Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopaths start this right. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin, ridiculous. I'm a doctor for a second. Where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people.

I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time, educate adolescents, and to prevent, and to treat. Do you have trouble? You can't stop and you want to help stop it. I can help.

I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. The book is Beneath the Card, a High Stakes, High-Anxiety Poker, journey, Garrett Adelstein.com, A-D-D-E-L-S-T-E-I-N, as well as G-M-M-Poker-on-X. Garrett, thanks for joining me. Of course, yeah, I'm pumped to be here. So, I mean, there's so many different things I want to talk to you about. There's some mention in your history of depression.

Tell me about what happened there. Yeah, you know, I suffered from maybe moderate to high depression, sort of throughout my whole life. The first 30 years, I had. almost zero idea how to manage it. I barely even knew the verbiage. And dealing with depression while also trying to be a high-stakes poker player is an uphill battle, to say the least. So a very tricky.

It's interesting. Yeah, good. Well, I was going to say that is there in your family? Was there trauma? Is there bipolar disorder? How does that manifest? Yeah, you know, again, none of these things I had any idea for the longest time. Some of this, I think, is a bit of a chemical imbalance,

and there's definitely a history of depression in my family. But once I sort of got into talk therapy and things of that nature, my therapist certainly suspect that I was probably cyclothymic, which is kind of like a bipolar light, as of course you know, where my highs and lows are a little higher and lower than most people, but generally you don't sort of need medication to deal with that. And fortunately, you know, I haven't needed medication. CBT and talk therapy, especially CBT have kind of helped me, especially in my 30s.

It's interesting. Cyclothymia was a very frequent diagnosis back when I was working in a psychiatric hospital. It's been almost completely abandoned for bipolar too, you know, and they just call it that now. And I guess that's a good thing in the sense that were somebody to recommend medication to you, just because you have psychothymia, it does put you at risk of. the medication-inducing mania? Yeah, absolutely. You know, when I, again, kind of started this mental health journey about a decade ago,

right around my 30th birthday, I was pretty committed to avoiding medication. I had read, you know, Jonathan Harri's book and several others. So I was pretty anti-medication. But, you know, in my first couple years of therapy, you know, there were definitely times my therapist and I were both like, hey, I don't know if we can sort of make this work without it. But fortunately, I'm one of the success stories. Of course, there's many success stories with medication as well. But as of course, you know much better than I.

Not without costs, complications. And, you know, it's not for everyone. Yeah. So talking to me about gambling. How did you get hooked? Yeah. So, I mean, I got hooked with gambling in 2003, watching this guy named Chris Moneymaker

when the World Series of Poker back then. It was on ESPN all hours of the day. And I was 16 years old. And next thing I knew within the next two or three years, this was when online poker exploded. And I was making hundreds of thousands of dollars in my best periods, you know, in a matter of days. It was a very surreal ride. And when you give a young kid that much money that quickly, he's going to make a lot of mistakes, which I certainly did. And so then you started getting into getting offline and into competition.

Is that how was the next step for you? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, I mean, back in 2011, there was a day called Black Friday, aptly named. This was the day where the American government shut down the biggest online poker sites. So pretty much all sort of high stakes poker players had a couple of decisions. They could retire. They could move overseas, which is what almost all of them did.

But in my case, neither of those were particularly appealing options. And so one thing led to another, and I kind of ended up playing live poker. in casinos. And from there, did that for several years. And around 2017, I became something of a big name in live stream poker. And at that time, that's sort of where I guess my fame in my niche industry or whatever grew on those live stream poker shows. People who are interested in poker kind of love watching people gamble for huge amounts of money, sometimes hundreds of thousands of if not more. Were you even 21 by that point?

Yeah. So when I started playing high stakes online poker, I was 18, 19 years old. And then I switched to my live career. That was, I guess, when I'm over like 25, 26. So by that time, I'd been in my field for a long time, but still had quite a bit to learn. One of the things, so there's different kinds of sort of gambling, gambling addictions, gambling compulsions. Have you seen out there?

You must have seen people that got severely addicted to gambling out in your world. Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a line from my book that I speak on directly where I ask, what's the difference between a compulsive gambler

and a professional poker player? In a word, winning. It's kind of just that simple. And for me, I had so many different life leaks. I had these crazy emotional control issues on and off the poker table. On the table, it led to me losing lots of money, but I was talented and the poker games were really good. So overall, I still found a way to win.

On the flip side of that, a lot of my biggest wins, a lot of my biggest periods of wins, they certainly came at the hands of compulsive gamblers. There's a couple of different guys I speak on in my book where the totals they lost were millions and potentially, tens of millions of dollars. And, you know, that is messy, to say the least. You know, I think, you know, there's a proverb in poker that a fool in his money must be parted or that, you know, these guys are going to lose their money one way or another. That is obviously heartless, for one.

But two, I think really doesn't do the complicated sort of nature of zero-sum, you know, gambling, you know, justice. And for me, it was like, ultimately, you know, I've made many millions of dollars playing poker. But, you know, I largely left the game about four years ago because that zero-sum nature and winning money off people who, in some cases, had a problem. You know, it really kind of started to bother me, really started to get to me. And, you know, that's why I spent the last several years crafting my memoir. Do you think you had ADHD also? I think I was probably misdiagnosed. with ADHD.

Yeah, I certainly took Ritalin, you know, from ages like five to eight, five to nine. But, you know, I think sort of the culprit for, you know, my inability to sit still probably stem first and foremost from being a five-year-old boy, a six-year-old boy who is, you know, somewhat bright. And then I think, if nothing else, it was probably anxiety. You know, there are some tricky things that happened in my childhood that kind of had me living on eggshells at all times. And at all times, even at a very young age, you know, this drive for exceptionalism,

this need to be perfect has always been sort of a really big part of who I am. And that perfectionism, you know, only continue to grow worse, you know, in my teens and 20s, you know, until I finally started to get some help for it, until I finally started, you know, working with my therapist and doing my own sort of homework on cognitive behavioral therapy and understanding all of these cognitive distortions that were really doing me much more harm than good.

Yeah, one of the concerns I have about all the over-diagnosing or the diagnosing of ADHD is a very significant portion of those kids actually have complex PTSD. And the trauma is a cause of ADHD that goes completely unlooked. And you said, you know, you were walking on egg cells. That's the cycle of abuse and trauma and all that stuff. that's that's where the ADHD comes from that's not the you know the way the way the world looks at it the medical world is you have an intrinsic brain thing like no no no it's more complicated than that

so i'm glad you didn't fall victim to any of these things let's let's go back to the winning paradigm so sure once someone told me once that once someone wins a million dollars gambling they're hooked and they're either going to you know continue to gamble and win or they're they're going to lose everything. Yeah, I don't know in terms of that million dollar threshold. But one thing I can't speak on with poker specifically is it's not like craps. I think most people, they go to a craps table. And if they know even a little bit, they know that on average they're going to lose,

that if they sit at that craps table 12 days or 12 hours a day for a month, like there's almost no chance they can come out ahead. Well, the thing about poker and what makes it go around and why, you know, casinos are packed with low stakes and high stakes tables is because everybody thinks they're so much better than they are. The human delusion is endless and it's never more prevalent than in poker. And so I think that's really kind of what kept me around and what kind of keeps everyone around. Now, I think we all sort of probably think we're better than we are at poker, but as long as you're at least in the same thing, the ballpark and you do have consistent results over time that you are a winner. Obviously, that kind of, you know, the proof is in the pudding in that scenario. Well, I mean, the, you know,

is it not primarily the sort of the primary sort of task is good decision making, right? Risk assessment, decision making. But the ineffable is how you, when you bluff, how you interpret other people's bluffing. That's the stuff that you can't really teach someone, can you? Or you can't, there's skill, there's talent with that that goes beyond skill, I guess I would say. Yeah, I think Dr. Drew, I think you nailed it. Like in, in reality, like poker's just incredibly multifaceted, especially in the live arena, which is where I've spent most of my career. For one, there is sort of understanding the math. There is sort of a study component to it, especially in recent years where computer software helps people to play.

better. But a lot of it is what you're talking about. It's psychology. It's being able to read and interpret people's body language. In short, it's one's ability to kind of intuit the right decision. Now, that intuition, you know, over the years, I got a lot of credit for that being some sort of superpower. I think that that's overstated. You know, I think in reality, that just comes from getting the reps in for 25 years. It comes from playing millions of poker hands. It comes from seeing almost every situation against every type of opponent hundreds of times where the answer will come to me in a matter of seconds through sort of a series of, you know, analyses of various variables. But really, I think that's kind of just intuition. And I think,

you know, people who are experts at many different fields, it kind of works in the same formulaic sort of way. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And it's the, it's the, it's the reps. It's the experience. And not everyone's good at experiential learning. You have to have been good at that. I had an experience playing poker at a pro-am game. What was your name? Annie Duke. Is that her name?

The former player that with the brother? She was sitting next to me. And it was an open kind of game. And I had a full house showing after the turn. And somebody was betting aggressively against me. And if I remember right, there were two nines on the table or something. Yeah, something like that. And the way this guy was betting, or maybe it was a woman, I said, look, I said to Annie,

sitting next to me, I go, I have a full house. The only way this person wins is if they have four-nines. And she goes, that's right. But the probability of that is low, so you have to go all in four-nines. And so you might have made a different decision just based on the way that guy was betting, right? You might have seen something. You went, I know he has four-nines, which I had to learn that from reps. and what do I know?

Exactly. But it does speak to your point in terms of the really complex and nuanced nature of poker. Because to oversimplify the scenario you just described, on one hand, the math sort of dictates go all in.

You're going to have the best hand, the vast majority of the time. But if your intuition, based on some other variables, physical sort of mannerisms, etc., leads you in a different direction. Well, now what? That's where the experience comes in.

You take these competing variables and you have to decide sort of which one should supersede the other. But to your point about gambling addiction, I have noticed that you're right. The losing gambling addict is the more common circumstance. And they tend to come in two flavors. They come in sort of a deading version, like they're addicted to deading. Or they get this feeling with actually three loser versions.

They have to have the feeling of their back against the wall or they don't feel alive. There's that version. And then there's a full-on sociopathic gambler too. that exists out there also. And those guys tend to like losing because they try to manipulate things and try to work a system. Yeah, you know, I can, to at least an extent, can relate to all three, maybe the third one, ideally, hopefully not much. You know, but the second one you speak to, you know, I discussed that at length, you know, in beneath the cards. I mean, I got off on that feeling so much in my teens and 20s, that sort of feeling alive.

And there were so many situations where I practiced very irresponsible bankroll management, basically just playing way too high of stakes because I knew doing so, the result was going to swing. Honestly, the trajectory of me of my entire career pretty aggressively in one direction or another. Now, at this point, I'm 40 years old. I have a three-year-old and a one-year-old at home. None of these things interest me at all before. You have to learn the hard way, I think, to avoid making self-year-old. destructive decisions. And in my case, a lot of times I had to learn the hard way over and over

again. And that's kind of part of the core of what I write about is hopefully helping other people to read about my ups and downs and maybe avoid, you know, at least some of the same pitfalls. Well, and then how do you get back to a more even life now? What is the sort of, how do you describe, I don't know if you were filling the void with some of that excitement and stuff or the void got filled through proper therapeutic practices? How do you get to where you are now, I guess would be the question. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think there was a time with therapy where I tried to kind of go like the opposite

direction where I used to just be so intense, so extreme, so type A, running full speed towards 10 different goals. And then I try to go completely the opposite direction where I just like zen out, you know? That's just like not my makeup, you know? And that was never really going to work for me. And so I think, you know, the key is to find healthy releases that, like, work with your nature, you know? And so one of the things like I've worked on is this process that I just refer to as like imperfecting, where instead of trying to be so extreme with everything and try to be a 10 out of 10 at all things I do,

just dial it down a little. Just go for that 8 out of 10. You know, I think a lot of this naturally sort of worked itself out too, again, because I spent so much of my time over the past few years writing, which has just helped me to not sort of need these emotional and financial highs and lows that I think I really used to get off of for the longest time. That's really interesting. Do you ever go back and just play for fun now? Can you do that or do you have to stay cold turkey? So I definitely still play poker.

You know, play for fun, like go to my local casino and play, you know, $5, $10 blind. that doesn't really interest me. It's like poker has just been like a business for me for so long that the idea of going to play small stakes doesn't interest me. And so I still think I need to play somewhat highest stakes where at least I can lose high five figures, low six figures. And in the bigger games I play still upwards of a million or so in a session. But I just play far more sporadically now.

I think that that's the key. In the past few years, I've only played sort of a few times a year, always on sort of big televised events. And, you know, like, again, it's a business. It's still a profitable endeavor. It's still plus EV, as we call it, you know, in the poker world. But then I go back to my normal life and I change diapers and, you know, do all the, all the things, you know, just that any other guy does. And I think that's really kind of helped to keep me grounded. And part of why I think poker will always be a part of my life. It's something that has brought so much good to my life and I still enjoy it a lot. But I think sort of to have a more balanced life to be the father I want to be,

I think, again, kind of playing on a more sporadic schedule just seems to work a lot better for me. And lastly, have you sort of change your philosophical? I understand you've changed your psychological orientation. But I imagine your philosophy of living had to have changed too. Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, a lot changes. You know, I think it's like, again, when I was about 30 a decade ago, is when I really kind of began this therapeutic journey. And I thought I had it all figured out by the time I was 35, 36. And then I was quickly and sorely mistaken. There was a very controversial hand. It's called the Jack 4 controversy where I believe, and And the vast majority of the poker community believes that I was cheated in that and several other poker hands. And that really swept me off my feet.

The very long and short of it was at first, opinions were very mixed, maybe something like 50-50. And the 50% that sort of went against me just like went after me online. And who cares? It shouldn't be that big of a deal, right? There's worse things in life than potentially being cheated in a poker. and then lambasted online after. But what I quickly realized at that time was my sense of self was still just not where it needed to be.

I just did not have the self-love I needed. And so many of these attacks that came in droves, tens of thousands of messages, you know, they really sweat me off my feet. And so there was a lot of reflecting, you know, that went into the last few years. And, you know, thankfully, you know, writing ultimately just ended up being the best therapy for me to the kind of process that, you know, I'd like to say, Dr. Drew, if something like that, you know, heaven forbid, where to happen again tomorrow, I'd be able to handle it, you know, far more gracefully. But I think you don't really know until it happens, you know, you don't really

know sort of what you're made of how we're really, can you describe what did, can you just, so this audience understands what did happen? Yes, of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I mean, you know, somewhat, somewhat long story, but I'll try to make it as brief as possible. I play a hand on the biggest live stream show called Hustler Casino Live. And this hand happens where my opponent, her name is Robbie Liu, makes an impossible call, one that anyone who knows really anything about poker knows just basically cannot happen. But the problem was, was so many of the attacks that came all over the internet were from people that didn't know the rules for poker. that sort of had their own thoughts about what happened, their own agenda.

It didn't, you know, there was a lot of sort of complicating, you know, factors involved in that. And, you know, I give Robbie and sort of her PR team that she hired a lot of credit. You know, their misinformation campaign was, you know, initially very, very strong. And that's, I think, what led to a lot of divided opinions for a very long time. Well, congratulations on the book. Congratulations on the journey and where you've arrived in one piece. It's good to see. Do you want people primarily go to X to follow you or is there somewhere else?

Yeah, I think, you know, the easiest place to grab my book is just at my website, Garrett Adelstein.com. But, yeah, they can follow X if they don't want to follow my socials. I appreciate you having because it's been a lot of fun. You bet, Garrett. Thank you for joining us. Thanks, Dr. Dr. Jeff. All right, coming up, we're going to talk Dr. Dan Eameman about the brain per se, brain and ADHD,

maybe a little brain on gambling, brain and 17 hydroxy, brain and nitrous oxide. A lot of stuff to talk about right after this. It's been a privilege to serve as the chief patient officer at the wellness company. And one of our top priorities has been to help families prepare for emergencies, avoid trips to the ER or urgent care, which is a waste of time and money. and you're exposing. It's just not the way medicine should be delivered. And I want to remind you about one of the most popular products amongst new and returning

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Now, if you want to see stars, you have to watch them dance, dive, or go to rehab with Dr. Drew. Dr. Pinsky told me that you are having some issues. He says I'm depressed. Are you? And reminder for a limited time, Pala Valley Pumpkin Spice for the fall, October, November. Of course, the Superfood Bar is and their grass-fed and finished bone broth protein. Many brands claim to be brass-fed, but in fact, cattle are often finished on grains. That's a big distinction.

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the news these days. I think most people are aware of that. We have the Ole Miss student now of SMAX pseudo-DHM, Kratum from a store nearby. It's just another 70 end hydroxy. It's all, these are not different things. They're just different versions of the same thing. Dan Ayman is the CEO and medical director of Aymann Clinics, double board certified in general psychiatry and child and adolescent,

former U.S. Army Infantry Medicinesished Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association, bestselling author. You can follow Dr. Aeman at DOC, Doc A.M. And Doc Aiman, that's X. Dr. Raymond, welcome back. Hi. Dr. Drew, so nice to see you. Thanks for having me. So I just am so grateful that we were able to turn you around and drag you. back in again. Can you tell people about some of the brain effects? So one of these kids,

I talked to a psychiatrist yesterday and we went, look, it's going to be an opiate, either an adulterated something that had fentanyl in it or the concentrated 17 hydroxy from cratum and, or just a shit ton of cratum, and a benzodiazepine. Lo and behold, he took Xanax. Both of them, I think, took Xanax before they took their 17 hydroxia or 17.O.H. But there was apparently a nitrous involved, in your nitrous oxide abuse and use, which is something that I'm gravely concerned about. I've seen it, again, all this stuff I've seen forever. But it's odd to me that the press is not making anything

of the nitrous oxide component of these poor young men's drug abuse. It's a significant issue. Stivo was a nitrous addict. That's what finally took him out. He became psychotic on the nitrous. Can you tell us a little bit about the brain effects? Well, drops blood flow significantly. Actually, all three of those things from the Benzo and Kratum, I did this great story with KTLA in Los Angeles, where I scanned the anchor and then the producer.

And then I scanned them a year later, and the anchor's brain was so much better because she had done what I wanted her to do. But the producer's brain was dramatically worse, which really upset me because, you know, my goal is to make brains better. And I'm like, what happened? And he's like, oh, nothing. I did just what you said, except he added credum because one of his friends told him it would help his anxiety and his pain. And this is something over the counter that you can get everything. everywhere that was clearly damaging his brain. And the reason I stopped prescribing benzos in the early 1990s is I started looking at people's brains. We do a study called brain-specimaging.

And the benzo people, their brains look like they were drinkers. It was not good. It was prematurely aging their brain. And then I guess it was about 20 years ago it came out that benzodiazepine use is associated with dementia. Yes, particularly, I think Atavant with lorazepam was the first one to be pointed out as such. You know, there's all this pushback on us even talking about the clinical manifestations of cratum, cratum abuse, cratim addiction. I just, someone tilted on our, on our restream here, that there is a hearing, I guess, to, let's see, 13th, Congress.

briefing on the 14th to look at a possible federal ban on cratum. No one, neither nor I nor Dr. maybe you, Dr. Hammond, but certainly Dr. Yosef, none of us have advocated for a ban on cratim. We're just saying there are issues with these things that are available over the counter. You should know accordingly. I've had opiate addicts go out on cratim, plain old cratim probably half a dozen times. Yeah, I'm sort of a fan of banning it.

It's like, so why is this legal something that you can get in a gas station that has a negative impact on your brain? And I asked one of my friends in Washington, like, so why is this legal? And his answer was basically you have to give the population something to calm their brains. And I'm just like, no. I'm not a fan of that. I'm a fan of teaching people to manage their minds, right? There's nowhere in school where you learn how to not believe every stupid thing you think. There's nowhere in school where you really learn to meditate, to pray, to quiet, the noise.

And so now the big innovation in psychiatry are the street drugs of the 60s. It's marijuana, ketamine, and psilocybin. And I'm like, no, I'm not a fan of this. And whenever I talk about marijuana, people lose their mind. But I published a study on a thousand marijuana users. Every area of their brain is lower in activity and blood flow. And it's not just me. There was a study last year in JAMA's psychiatry,

completely separate group on another thousand young marijuana users. The areas of learning and memory were significantly less active. The surgeon general came out very quick. You can't overdose on cratim. You can overdose on a derivative. True. That's absolutely true. But that's different from the addictiveish issue.

and the relapse issue. These are all very different things and also the premature aging issues you're talking about. I mean, there's a lot else involved here. We all agree. 17 hydroxymythra gene, yes, should be outlawed.

Yes, that's an easy one. In fact, apparently these kids were exposed to something that was adulterated to the point where it's even sort of in the morphine-like effect on the brain. So that was kind of interesting and sad. Again, Xanax with morphine equals no breathing.

I want to talk to you about ADD, ADHD. I've noticed my Instagram feed is full of you talking about ADHD. And I think it's a really important topic. It's on people's minds a lot these days. Where should we start with the time? Let's start with something simple. Why did the nomenclature switch ADD, ADHD? Why did that get so confusing?

Yeah, it was a mistake. And it happened in DSM3 that came out in 1980 when I was in medical school. talked about attention deficit disorder with or without hyperactivity. And then in 1987, they decided to change the name to ADHD. I thought that was a huge mistake because you basically threw out half the people who have ADD of one form or another, especially girls, because girls tend not to be hyperactive. when I started imaging in 1991, so I'm also a child psychiatrist, so half of the kids I see

have ADD of one type or another. And Alan Zemekin from the NIMH published a pet study in the 1980s showing that ADD was low activity in the prefrontal cortex when you try to concentrate. And we saw that on spec, but we also saw it wasn't one thing. And probably of all the imaging work I've done, the headline is anxiety, depression, ADHD, PTSD, schizophrenia, OCD. They're not one thing. And David Smith and I actually wrote a book on addiction, Unchain Your Brain, Breaking the Addictions that Steal Your Life. And we talked about seven different kinds or six different kinds of addicts, but everybody in a 12-step program, it will help some people. but it won't help a lot others. We have to stop the one-size-fits-all treatment in psychiatry.

David Smith is one of my old heroes. He and a guy named Wesson, Smith and Wesson. Interestingly, he coined the term speed kills back in the late 60s. This was been my thing about ADHD, all along, which is it gets treated and categorized as one thing. It's treated by pediatricians, which I find really problematic. I worry about, as you say, anxiety that gets misdiagnosed ADHD. I worry about post-traumatic stress or some sort of trauma manifesting as ADHD-type symptoms.

I worry about the genetic of alcoholism and how it figures into all this. They all, to me, seem overlapping and different contributors to ADHD. and thus should be addressed as the underlying cause of this. One of my biggest selling books was called Healing ADD, see and heal the seven different types. And of the seven types, stimulants help two of them. But they make the other five worse, which is why Ritalin has a bad reputation.

For the right brain, it's miraculous. For the wrong brain, it's a nightmare. And if you never look at the brain, you actually never know. So 25% of the American adult population is on a psychiatric drug usually prescribed by their family doctor, their nurse practitioner, their internist, an attendant-a-office visit. And it's just a shit show. Yeah, I agree. If I had a child, which I do actually, who has ADHD, the first thing you do is you put them on an elimination diet. You just try it for a month.

Get rid of gluten, dairy, corn, soy, artificial dyes and sweeteners. A replicated study out of Holland, 70% of the kids lost their ADHD. symptoms. So the first thing to do is like, let's just feed them right and decrease their device use, get them some sunshine into exercise. Because if they really have ADV or ADHD, they're going to have it two months from now. So let us just take a thoughtful approach. Did you see this new medication for ADHD? I'm, I'm intrigued. and concerned simultaneously, the SIM Trio. Have you seen this? No.

It's a triple re-uptake inhibitor. It blocks reuptake of dopamine, noreturgic, and serenurgic. All three systems. I'm thinking, that can't be good. That's going to have side effects, at very minimum. Well, actually, so I own BrainMD. BrainMD is our supplement company. and why do I own a supplement company? Because some of the medicines I was taught to prescribe are harmful for the brain. And our first supplement is called Neurrelink that has 5HTP, raises serotonin, GABA raises GABA, and eltyrosine, which is the amino acid building block for dopamine.

And for a number of the types, it's really good. In fact, my niece, when she was seven, was just a holy terror. And my sister kept calling me three times a week. And nothing I was doing. Stimulants made her worse. Everything made her worse. And like all the time my sister's calling me. And then I put her on NERLINK because I had just created it.

And then four months later, I hadn't heard from my sister. And so I called her. And I'm like, don't you love me anymore? And she said, oh, of course I love you. Don't be stupid. You can't believe how much better Jennifer is. And so the beautiful thing about working on multiple neurotransmitters is often people have multiple issues.

And one of my subtypes is called the Ring of Fire. And the Ring of Fire, typical ADD, shows low activity that gets. gets worse when you concentrate. So the harder you try, the worse it gets. And it totally would make sense to give that child or that adult a stimulant. But the ring of fire is their brain works way too hard. Giving them a stimulant is like pouring gasoline on a fire. And so having mechanisms to bail.

But, Drew, all of this happens without anybody ever looking. It's like, why are psychiatrists the only medical doctors who never look at the organ they treat? And it's going to change. So the American Psychiatric Association in May published a paper. So they rejected my imaging work formally three times, 2005, 2000. 2012, 2018. They wrote position papers against imaging in psychiatry, of course, without ever talking to me. But now they say biomarkers are essential, and we've actually applied for 23 biomarkers and biological factors to be entered into the DSM. Now, they're not going to take 23, but if they take 7, it'll change the ballgame.

and it needs to change because this is why there's stigma for psychiatry. They make diagnoses based on symptom clusters, and nobody believes they're really bipolar. Or I don't believe I have ADHD, or I don't believe I'm got a panic disorder. But when you show them their scan, like I do a show on Instagram called Scan My Brain, we scan Jonathan Kane, who is the keyboardist for Jersey. And Jonathan was drinking two bottles of wine a day.

So all public knowledge, he'd been doing it for years. And as soon as he saw a scan, he stopped. Because he saw what he was doing physically. Now, that takes away stigma. It's like, oh, your brain's not tuned properly. As we get it better, you're going to be better. And that's what I get so excited about. Well, last time we spoke, you were saying that there has been a shift where because you were first, that's where a lot of the pushback came from, but that the formal, the professional organizations are beginning to soften their position.

Very excited about this. So, you know, whether it's three years or ten years, it's not going to be 20. and I try to stay healthy as you do because I want to outlive all my critics. Would you mind going through the seven varieties of ADD or ADHD that so people can sort of understand and then and what the brain sort of mechanisms are of each? So the classic one is ADHD.

So type one, it's short attention span distractibility, disorganization, restlessness, and hyperactivity. What people typically think of as ADHD. Their brain can be normal or a little bit low at rest, but when they try to concentrate, drops in activity. The harder they try, the worse it gets. Type two, short attention span, distractibility, but really never hyperactive. In fact, almost high. hypoactive, more common in girls. And they have generally low activity in their brain. Type three, often children and grandchildren of alcoholics, they have low activity when they try to concentrate. But a part of their brain called the anterior singular gyrus, the gear shifter

in their brain works too hard. So they almost look like they have OCD and ADD. at the same time. Give them a stimulus. Interesting. That's my patience. Those are my patients, Dan. And those are very familiar territory for me. Yeah.

Prozac and Ritalin, miraculous for that group. I wrote a book about it in 1994 called Healing the Chaos Within because I found for the children and grandchildren of alcoholics, they had that over-focused subtype. Type 4 is I call limbic ADD. Their emotional brain works too hard. And when you put them on a stimulant, they cry more. They're more depressed. They do miraculous with Welbutrin or Sammy, the supplement equivalent to wellbutrin.

Type 5 is temporal lobe, ADD. They have all the ADD symptoms plus mood instability, irritability, temper problems. They do really well with anticonvulsants like Lomictal plus then a stimulant. Type 6 is the ring of fire. Fully ADHD, more hyperactive, more distracted, but put them on a stimulant and they get dramatically worse. I think it might be early vulnerability to bipolar disorder. Right.

And then type 7 is anxious ADD. I mean, you really tell if somebody has ADD, you have an appointment at two with them. They actually don't show up until 210. They really want to be there, but they're always late. That anxious ADD people are 10 minutes early. They struggle with a lot of anxiety and Adderall or Ritalin make them more anxious, although they get more things. they get more things done.

And so calming their anxiety is critical to being able to treat their ADP. And there's no rule you just get one of them. You can have a combination of a couple, which is not unusual. But when you walk, you then go, this is what I need to target. You actually get a map.

and so you stopped guessing. Well, I think they're about to come out with a whole bunch of new medications for this, because there's an acknowledgement that stimulants are not for everybody, so to speak, and they're not solving all the problems. We'll see what, you know, I worry about these things is that, again, there's an over-enthusiasm for medication, as we've already discussed, because so much of ADD-A-D-D-H-E can, as you say, manage with other, other means very, very effectively.

Well, and I think that's where you start, but I also worry that the enlightened person often says they would never put their child on medication. And I have seen the proper medication take kids from C's and D's and F's to A's and B's. In fact, one of my children who was never hyperactive, sweet as can be, and this is going to sound terrible, but I never thought she was very smart. I took her to a psychologist, had her tested, and she said, basically, she wasn't very smart, but she'll be fine because she worked so hard. And then in 10th grade, she just completely fell apart.

She's studying every night till 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning. She came to me one night in tears and said, dad, I can never be as smart as my friends. And so I scanned her. And I saw the really low activity you see with type 2. And on Ritalin, went from bees and C's working her brains out to straight A's and got into the University of Edinburgh's veterinarian school. And without the medicine, that would have never happened.

and we would have condemned her to a life of mediocrity. And so I worry when Secretary Kennedy comes out, and I'm a huge fan of his. But it's like, you know, we're over-medicating kids, and yes, we are, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I absolutely agree. Hitholding the proper treatment is like withholding glasses. from someone who cannot see.

Yeah, that's exactly right. It's our job to provide the correct treatment to the correct patient. When that is paired up, the outcomes are great. And guess what? Most of the research is done on a very select patient profile with a very specific treatment applied, and the positive outcomes are ensuing. But if you broaden the category of who you're giving these things to or you change the way you do the treatment.

That's no longer science anymore. Now we're just sort of fishing. You're looking around. I get that. I understand people are struggling to help someone. But it's always the case. Right patient with the right treatment, good outcome. Anything short of that, and we are not practicing good medicine.

So I'm delighted to hear you say that. And the more that the imaging and the biomarkers can help you select the right person, the right patient, now you're going to be able to. apply the right treatment. What else is exciting you these days? I'm going to let you go in just a second. What else is on your radar? I'm working with the White House on the decade of brain health. I have HHS and USDA and the Office of National Control Drug Policy have signed up to be part of it. It's a whole of government initiative to get people to love and care for their

brain. So America's most valuable natural resource is the collective brain health of the population. We're in trouble, but we can be better. Dr. Raymond, thank you so much for joining me. I greatly appreciate it. So great to see you, Dr. Drew. You as well. All right. I'm going to take a little break. And when I get back, I'm going to go a little more detail on the unfortunate tragedy at all miss. Maybe talk a little bit also about the Gerber case because there's some more information

there that, again, people are misinterpreting. Yeah, doctor was giving him ketamine. We already knew that. He was getting ketamine for depression. Not a horrible thing. But sometimes they give people ketamine intranasally afterwards to sustain the effect of the antidepressant ketamine. that's a bad time. That's a bad idea. And I generally against ketamine for addicts. I've seen it trigger them many times. And it's a good treatment, not good for addicts. So, okay, we'll talk about that. And more right up to this. Dr. Drew here. Fatty 15 was discovered working with the Navy's fleet of dolphins. A brilliant veterinary epidemiologist realized that dolphins deficient in this odd chain fatty acid were helped by replacing that fatty acid. They didn't get the conditions. Turns out humans have similar deficiencies. It supports healthy glucose metabolism. It gets into the cell membrane and decreases the pool of available oxidizable species that can lead to ferroposis. So it is considered the longevity nutrient.

If you'd like yours, go to doctor.com slash fatty 15. I don't see the profession doing anything to really build trust beside you. Happy to be on here. Thank you for having me. You and I see the world the same way. What is it like for you to be the most chiseled and best-looking man in media? Giving us the information we need. Thank you for the truth.

My pleasure. We are going to take your calls at 8333-D-R-D-R-A-W. So it turned out the tragic deaths of the two young men at Ole Miss involved the purchase of S-Max pseudo-D-H-Talbush from a smoke shop. this is another 17-0-H 17-hydroxy, which is a very concentrated version of something from the cratum leaf. It is something that everybody agrees is addictive. Everybody agrees is dangerous. The fact that they are concentrating it to the degree to which they are is making it more like opioids, opiates you're familiar with like morphine. And even those opiates are hard to overdose on by themselves.

But when you add, believe it or not, fentanyl is not. Morphine can be difficult. But if you add a benzodiazepine in, it's incredibly easy. It's super easy. You add a sleeping medication like Ambien or Restorel or something, and you add in a benzodiae, or you add in a benzodiae, or you adderine, adivans, Xanax, Valium. People stop breathing.

It's just how it works. All through the opioid prescribing crisis, we went through in the 90s and 2000s, the deaths were caused by that combination. And now we're seeing that combination again, rear its ugly head here, with this over-the-counter product that people are making this huge deal about it. It's synthetic and synthetic.

Yeah, morphine and heroin are not synthetic. Those are natural opiates. Ventanil is synthetic. Both are highly, highly dangerous. The fact that one is synthetic and one is not does not have any bearing on whether somebody can get addicted or whether somebody can get overdosed, particularly when you have the benzodiazepines, except that with the synthetic versions, you can monkey it with it to make it more and more and more powerful,

which makes it more and more dangerous in the standpoint of addictive potential and overdose potential. But it is not exclusive to, it's not something that differentiates a synthetic product from a natural product. That's a false idea, except to say that they're doing what they're doing to it, which is synthesizing it.

into more and more addictive substances. So the other thing that no one is talking about is, in fact, at least one of these kids was on nitrous oxide, which is a profoundly dangerous addiction when it gets going. Stivo nearly killed himself on that drug. The people get manic, they get psychotic. They get an acetypore neuropathy, a Guillum-Burray-like syndrome. People, I think, are aware of that syndrome now,

that they can get paralyzed from the neck down, essentially. These are common from nitrous oxide abuse. and people that use nitrous oxide often are using other substances, hallucinogens, cannabis, things like that. So it's usually part of an array, but the nitrous can become addictive. And they get it from various sources,

Wippets, they actually buy canisters, there's all kinds of sources out there. Trust me, people can get that stuff if they want it. So it's an opportunity to talk about the seriousness of the nitrous oxide, exactly where in the brain, we've been talking about the brain thus far, exactly where in the brain nitrous oxide acts.

In terms of its adverse effect, you have to think in terms of these depletions of neurochemicals that occur with chronic exposure to substances that result in various regions and imbalances of the brain. Hard to put your finger on one locality and say, ah, there is the effect of nitrous oxide. Same thing with opiates. Opiates affect the endorphin system. So the 17-I-O-H, the cratum, the morphine, the fentanyl are affecting the opioid system, which is the endorphin system. Everyone's heard about endorphins, right? Well, they are concentrated in certain parts of the brain, but they're ubiquitous. They're all over the place.

But where the high comes in is probably in sort of the anterior cingulate region. You sort of heard that Dr. Amel was referring to that region in the addiction or the alcoholism-related genetics associated with ADD. Yes, that opioid system is somewhat prone to being highly rewarded by exogenous opiates, highly rewarded by extreme activities. And the other thing that the opioids do is they trigger a pathway in what's called the medial forebrain bundle, the ventral tegmental cells firing into the nucleus accumbens, and the addiction really occurs in these two little nuclei way down to the base of the brain that are associated with our drive to survive.

The part of the brain that says, do that again, that was good. It helped you survive. Addiction adulterates the message from the chemicals to focus the motivation away from survival and towards the substance. It does it through what are called intracidoplastic mechanisms. It activates the shell of the nucleus accumbens and the little cells in those regions become permanently. altered. They actually genetically shift. So now the relationship with the outside world changes

where that person is seeking the kind of stimulation that they get from addictive substances and addictive behaviors to let's say satisfy that region that is now altered. It's the same

region of the brain associated with eating and reproduction and social activity and usual rewards like working and doing well, and all those normal rewards shrink away, and one reward emerges, and that is seek the substance. Now, addicts learn that they don't have to seek one substance. They don't realize what they're doing, but they're stimulating that same region of the brain, which is why there are, why you can't smoke weed, you can't drink, you can't do all these other substances that funneled

down into that same region of the brain, including gambling and whatnot, and psychostimulants. That's why if somebody has addictive potential and takes a stimulant for ADHD, they think it's the greatest drug ever for about three months, and then it re-triggers their addiction. Same thing with ketamine. Ketamine has the potential to trigger into that system, not powerfully, not with these sort of intermittent exposures, but enough to reawaken the, it's not even the desire. It's just the motivational state directed to our. of substance. All right, now back to Presley Gerber. He was given ketamine at one point.

He also was given ayahuasca or eibogaine, which also stimulates that region of the brain. So these are all questionable interventions, people with addiction. In Presley Gerber's case, there's all this concern about the treatment center. I have an experience that no one else has had. I was around in the 70s and 80s, and I saw how addiction treatment changed. In the 70s and 80s, a 12-step model emerged. The 28-day Minnesota model was spread across the country and primarily administered in psychiatric hospitals. Well, in these hospitals, the treatment professionals and the patients came in profound conflict with psychiatry. They felt that psychiatry was giving too many medications and sabotaging people's recovery,

which caused people to move treatment away from the psychiatric. Hospital. It's also how I got my job. I was a non-psychiatrist, so I was not threatening to anybody, and I directed a program for 20 years. Also, there was this weird thing going on where a psychiatric director of a unit was seen as a threat to the psychiatrist bringing their patients in to somehow stealing their patients, something people don't worry about today at all. And they didn't worry about it with me in that position, because I was not interested in stealing those patients. I was interested in directing them into a program of recovery. So, because, Because of that conflict, things started moving out of the psychiatric hospital and a lobby group in California got involved that took professional services away completely from residential and sober living in particular.

So physicians and nurses could not go into those facilities, let alone take care of patients there. You literally had to set up an address next door and have the patients come over to your office at the address next door and go. and get professional services. Residential, it's a little less restrictive, but sober living, it's still that way. So people are first asking, why didn't a doctor, a nurse him? They're not allowed to see them at that level of care.

There is a question why he got that level of care, why he didn't go to a higher level of care. In my opinion, a psychiatric hospital would have been appropriate, obviously given how things turned out, or at least a residential facility. He was loaded when he went in, and everyone's pointing that and going, He was loaded when he went to treatment.

Yes, every attic is loaded when they come to treatment, unless they're coming straight from jail or court. Because they know they're going into treatment, they have a last hurrah. That's almost always what happens as people enter treatment. And in a professional environment with nurses and doctors, you watch carefully for overdose. You watch carefully for the withdrawal syndrome,

and you treat it accordingly. But people still smuggle stuff in. I've seen the highest acute environment, still drugs come in. Sometimes the family members themselves bring it in. It's crazy how it gets into treatment centers. But where Grit Presley was treated at a lowest level of care, sober living,

we don't know why. Maybe he had previously been treated somewhere else. Maybe he had detoxed recently somewhere else. Maybe he had burned every bridge. My spidey sense, I kind of think that what was happening to his care is he started calling the shots of his treatment. He started determining where he went

and he wanted to go to a nice facility. and that's where he went. When the addict determines the care, when the addict is directing care, how could the outcome be other than poor? The patient with the diseased, disordered brain, which is always geared towards getting back to drug use, that's what's in charge.

Things do not turn out very well. So my suspicion is that that was an issue here. The other thing, people are looking at the couple of the psychologist couple that bought the homes that built the programs and say, he is a drug addict. He has legal issues. He lost his license.

That is not a negative. That is a positive. And let me explain why. He had a criminal past because he was a drug addict. I think he was a meth addict, if I remember right. And guess what happens to drug addicts? They run afoul of the law. Now, I would want somebody directing that program who is a recovering person,

a long-term recovering person. And if it's a long-term recovering person, there's going to be a legal background. There's going to be a legal record. That's the way it goes. Now, the question is, was he really into his program? Was he actually sober? Did he, you know, fully embraced the process? I don't know.

I don't know these people. Having a psychologist in there in recovery, I would call that a net positive, even though there was a criminal record there, provided that this is someone who is actively involved in his own treatment. So we don't know that stuff. we don't know what all of the treatment Presley got. This is the part I want to caution people about it. It's very clear he got lots of psychiatric services,

and I'm certain that some of them were good. But the fact that he started, you know, strung out on benzodiazepines, he was taking Syboxone and benzodiazepines. He was researching everything and directing care himself. That's where things really got off the rail. How they got there, we don't know. We don't know.

And we also don't know what the underlying symptoms. is. He may have heard rumors of a head injury at some point, and that profoundly alters our ability to render care. There was clearly other psychiatric issues that we are not privy to that we're complicating it. And it's a reminder, I see this over and over again. Opiate addiction has a prognosis worse than most cancers. Even with treatment, people die when they get good treatment with cancer. It is the same thing with opioid addiction, particularly polydraudic. drug addiction, particularly polydiagnosed drug addiction, other psychiatric and medical problems. Okay. Caleb, does that adequately sort of run the cycle here? Do people understand what I'm

talking about? Does it make sense? Yes. That's what I'm seeing. Any other questions? This is actually, it's actually helping a lot of people understand the differences between all of these different treatments and how one on itself usually isn't the thing that kills people. It's the mixing of a lot of these different drugs and medications and treatments. That seems to be the, The cocktail. The two in particular, opiate opioid, benzodiazepine. That's the killer combo. What did Dr. Yosef called?

Yes, say, celebrity killer combo or something? The celebrity killer cocktail. That's what it is. Yeah, celebrity killer cocktail. I'm looking at your restream and your comments here. See if there's anything. Galacia. Hi, from Good Night from Galacia.

Okay. Do you see anything in the comments? Caleb, I'm just trying to roll through there and see if there's anything. anybody okay well again these are complicated issues the press is completely sort of I don't know it's completely misrepresenting

but they're missing the what's important in these stories because they don't understand them none of these things are new none of these things freedom is not new 7dhydroxy is not nude the killer combo with benzodiazepine is not new the issues of how sober living

is done in California not new It's a 20-year problem here. And yet it was because of what I lived through, which was that conflict between psychiatry and the recovery community that they made it. So you can't give professional services at that level of care, which is a gigantic mistake, a huge mistake. And the other on top of that now, the whole setting of sober living in California unregulated,

really essentially completely unregulated. All right. Coming up, we have a show on. Thursday at 2 o'clock. Let's see the guest list coming up here. That is Peter Navar. He's written a book about his. He's comparing his diary to Fauci's.

Steve Kirsch coming in next week. Alex Jones also next week. That Kelly Victory is going to sit in me for a couple of shows. I know you guys love her. She'll be here with Nick Holscher. That would be very interesting. Eric Pulling coming back. Now Wolf coming back.

Eric Berg coming back. Oh, Dr. Eric Berg. I'm sorry. I've not had him here before. He'll be a great guest. And there's a lot going on in Maha these days. Also, people pay attention there. I feel like the leaders in Maha are navigating the waters properly.

I know there's a lot of conflict out there. We talked to Mary Tali Bowden about that yesterday. But there's not, you can't run from one side of the boat to the other. You have to kind of navigate. And I feel like the navigation is going as it should. A reminder that the RFK-GNNs, does plan to address the addiction problem at some point down the road here he wants to set up work camps and i talked to a friend of my anthony brown who's been on this show before wants to set up almost a little

mini neighborhoods with the work camp that could be highly highly um managed sober livings for homeless people and drug addicts industries there's just so much to be done and they're doing it in san francisco uh watch the book uh finding home i think it's called uh not the book the documentary that we did about what goes on in Los Angeles and San Francisco. And San Francisco is taken that to heart, and their homeless rate is down like 22%. Now, I think it's going to be down 25% very shortly. Oh, there's a Kratum call.

Is that... All right, let's do this. Misty wants to talk about it. Misty, you want to talk about Kratom? Hi, Dr. Drew. Yes, my name is Ms. What's going on? And I just wanted to let you know.

that I survived the over-prescribing opioid epidemic because I found natural cratim seven years ago. But what I wanted to let you know is what cratom did for me. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Did it help you detox? Were you able to taper down with the cratom? What it helped me do was it gave me enough space in between the last time I used drugs into working on my wives of addiction. Like, why was I even trying to numb myself and just,

reality to begin with. Right. So let me understand this. So you took Kratum in between oral opiates? No, no, no. I got fired from my chronic pain management doctor in April of 2019. And then I went to the streets and started doing cocaine while I was looking for another pain management doctor.

Oh, my God. That is that breaks my heart. That is the way people die or people stay on the streets. That was the, as opposed to him bringing you in and saying, hey, let's do something. something else that's treat to this let's do something they just they just fire you that that to me is unconscionable it's just crazy yeah and trust me dr drew i was hell of pissed i was mad you know but you know i got fired because i didn't show up for a per contract pill count you know and of course i was short on my pills you know because i was abusing them at the time but what cratim allowed me to do

is to work on why why was i even doing that to begin with so now today I utilize whole leaf cratum go ahead I was to explain to me how it did that it that's a but it helped you reduce your heroin use or something I mean how did it how how did it do that differently than just stopping opiates all entirely um well stopping opiates entirely made me go search for them so what cratim allowed my brain to do was it made my brain shut up from craving it. So you used it as a replacement therapy. Right.

Right. That's interesting. So I would argue that that research needs to be done because it may be, it may be, I mean, we obviously, we use a lot of replacement drugs these days, Suboxone being the number one and all those conjurers off that. But maybe Cratum's a better one. Could be. It is being done right now.

That, you know, National Institute of Health or National Institute of Drug abuse, one of them, they're doing the study for opioid use disorder from a trigonine. Oh, they're going to use 17.0. I wanted to let you know that, that there are people like me in the world today that was been saved by natural cratom, you know, and I have not relapsed in seven years. Listen, there are people that are saved, there are some people who have been saved by cannabis that were opiodatics.

There's a lot of replacement therapies that people sort of come up with, but there's also a lot of catastrophes I've seen as well. So it's, again, it's Dr. Aiman and I were talking about. It's selecting the right treatment for the right patient. I, Misty, don't believe that doctors and patients should be restricted from getting anything that should be helpful. If they can be helpful, they can be used. Yeah, it might be dangerous, but doctors use dangerous things all the time. So I don't know, you know, whether it needs to be regulated in some way.

I mean, most substances that are medically assisted treatments are regulated in some way. So we'll see. I appreciate that call. Very good point, and I'm deeply appreciative that you called me to talk about it. All right. With that, we will kind of have to wrap things up, and we will see you on Thursday at 2 o'clock. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. Emily Barsh is our content producer. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not. not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here.

Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving, though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

at 800 273, 8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at doctordo.com slash help.

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