Ask Dr. Drew - Operation COVID: Pam Popper Alleges Orchestrated Misinfo "Event" with Dr. Kelly Victory – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 140

Episode Date: October 29, 2022

"It was a planned and carefully orchestrated event involving a campaign of misinformation," claims Pam Popper in her latest book about the pandemic. "They are everywhere, they are incredibly rich, they are powerful, and they are intent on getting their way." 「 LINKS FROM SHOW: https://drdrew.com/10242022 」 Pam Popper is an internationally recognized expert on nutrition, medicine and health. She is the founder and Executive Director of Wellness Forum Health, which provides educational programs, extensive libraries of videos and articles, diet and lifestyle intervention, and assistance to consumers who are interested in regaining and/or maintaining optimal health. Her newest book is "COVID Operation: What Happened, Why It Happened and What’s Next" which she co-authored with Shane Prier. Follow her at https://DrPamPopper.com 「 SPONSORED BY 」 • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get 10% off with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. Hundreds of millions of people have received a COVID-19 vaccine, and serious adverse reactions are uncommon. Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician and Dr. Kelly Victory is a board-certified emergency specialist. Portions of this program will examine countervailing views on important medical issues. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 WITH DR. KELLY VICTORY 」 Dr. Kelly Victory MD is a board-certified trauma and emergency specialist with over 30 years of clinical experience. She served as CMO for Whole Health Management, delivering on-site healthcare services for Fortune 500 companies. She holds a BS from Duke University and her MD from the University of North Carolina. Follow her at https://earlycovidcare.org 「 GEAR PROVIDED BY 」 • BLUE MICS - Find your best sound at https://drdrew.com/blue • ELGATO - See how Elgato's lights transformed Dr. Drew's set: https://drdrew.com/sponsors/elgato/ 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome everyone here as always a little bit out of sync this week because we're going to be traveling the latter half of the week. So we are coming into you on Monday with Dr. Kelly Victory and you all know Kelly. She'll be here to discuss Pam Popper with me today. Pam, I'm going to give you her particulars, is the Executive Director of Wellness Forum Health, providing education, video lifestyle intervention. Her newest book is COVID Operation, What Happened, Why It Happened, and What's Next, which she co-authored with Shane Pryor. You can follow her at drpampopper.com. So I'm interested in what her theory is.

A lot of wild new information flying around all the time. I don't know if you guys saw it today, but the Justice Department took action against Chinese operatives that were extraordinarily active in this country. And you wonder to what extent some of the misinformation that's been flying around lately has been influenced by some of these same operations. Hard to know. I don't have an opinion, but it's an interesting thing to think about. So let's get right to it. Our laws as it pertains to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this.

He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real.

We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. FedMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long. We'll be right back. or your style. There's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM. A sportsbook worth a slam dunk. An authorized gaming partner of the NBA. BetMGM.com for terms and conditions.

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with iGaming Ontario. And we're here, of course, following your comments out on the restream. I'm seeing you all there as well as over on the rumble rant uh susan is in the house today she was out last week everything cool with you good yeah good i i know you're upset about susan is um wakes up every day worrying about many of the things we talk about here on this show. I've noticed you're more in Kelly's camp even than I am. I am. You are. And it's a lot of noise. It's hard to know what's going on. We are seeing myocarditis.

We are seeing stupor ventricular arrhythmias. On Thursday, I have an interview with Asim Walhatra, who is the doctor that you heard about from the UK that everyone's chatting about and condemning for daring to speak up. How dare he? Thursday? How are you doing that? Thursday, the podcast, the Dr. Drew podcast.

Okay, tell where it's going to be. That will be here. Will it not be at drdrew.com? Is that right? Yeah, you're going to be traveling though, right? Right, but it will be here at drdrew.com? Yes. Yes. Yes.

All links are available. So that's where you can find it. But I do recommend that interview. It was very interesting. I've been wanting to get an in-depth point of view from a cardiologist for quite some time. And he confirmed many of the things that Kelly and I had been worrying about

that we seem to be seeing more supraventricular arrhythmias, more atrial fibrillation. We're wondering about this sudden death issue. I mean, Kelly obviously thinks we're definitely seeing it. I'm more in the sort of Dr. Vinay Prasad camp where we need to really nail down the data so we can see what's going on. But it's certainly worrisome. And I'm sort of in the Dr. John Campbell's category in the sense that he just keeps asking, why is this not an emergency to collect the data and that is my question whether it is around pregnancy around childbirth

as we we had discussed with an obstetrician here whether it is around cardiological issues whether it is around immune function generally in carcinogenicity and or other sorts of inability, other sorts of downstream health effects, this should be a massive priority. And really it seems like the only priority is continuing to push younger people, younger people all the time, like now we're down into the childhood vaccines,

to get these vaccines. We're in the vaccine uber alice world where vaccines are the one and only answer at all age groups. And just to kind of review my own position, I use it regularly in the elderly population. It's clear what I'm doing over age 75 with it. I think I know what I'm doing over age 65. I don't know what I'm doing under 50. That would work on that with a patient to determine whether or not a given particular individual risk reward is worth it. But I just don't have the data. I don't know exactly what I'm doing. And just like I wouldn't give a shingles vaccine to a nine-year-old, I wouldn't

give a Prevnar vaccine to a 26-year-old, I wouldn't give yellow fever vaccine to somebody who's not traveling to sub-Saharan Africa. Vaccines have appropriate populations for optimal utility, optimal benefit, and minimizing the adverse events or making the adverse events at least worth the risk. Again, worth the risk. Now, I keep wondering, am I missing something? Am I missing something in that risk reward analysis that our government is doing or that they know that I don't know? I don't get it. I don't see the risk reward. All I just keep hearing is people minimizing making otherwise healthy people sick because it's a relatively low number, but not really understanding that

the risk to the individuals of the illness, which we're trying to protect them from, is very remote. So let me get to my guest, Pam Popper. As I mentioned, she is the founder and executive director of Wellness Forum Health. Pam Popper wrote her book, COVID Operation, What Happened, Why It Happened, and What Is Next, all things I'm very interested in. Please welcome Pam Popper. Thank you.

Happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me. So let's just start with the title of the book. Can you sketch for me what happened? Yeah. Well, this is the biggest episode of medical tyranny in the history of the world, and it's not the first. This has been escalating for a long time.

And I'm actually writing another book right now. And the focus of the book is going to be not how could this happen, but why didn't it happen sooner? Because we've been heading in this direction for a long time. This partnership between medicine and the FDA and government and public health has been a disastrous thing. We've just seen a bigger version of it here. And I think that what happened in 2020 was the collision of a lot of things that have been going the wrong direction. Education, for one thing, we're turning out idiots from our educational institutions. The media has been controlled and

more and more controlled over a period of time. That was going in the wrong direction. Government, completely out of control. Medicine, completely out of control. And you put all that into the same pot. And again, it's a wonder that this didn't happen sooner. And it was also not the first big pandemic. There have been others. Oh, listen, that's how this pandemic started for me i was saying look we just had one we had h1n1 killed 300 000 people i got it it was worse than covet it was terrible and i just kept saying you don't even know it happened you don't know it happened you're going from a pandemic that killed 300 000 people to one that may kill a few million, and you've gone from non-awareness to complete destruction

of children's development and economies and hunger. And it just was the lack of any incremental response was the first thing that caught my attention. But I agree with you. Let's sort of drill into some of those issues. Education, first and foremost. I sort of, to simplify the educational shortcomings, two things that jump out at me. Younger physician peers do not seem to be trained in problem solving. They're not careful thinkers, as far as I can tell. They're

trained in following clinical pathways, unless they're surgeons. The surgeons are trained to solve problems in the surgical field. And I noticed the surgeons behaved very differently during the pandemic, which was kind of interesting right at the beginning. They wanted to try things. They wanted to solve problems. They were yelled down, of course. So one part is lack of critical thinking.

The second is what I've seen on the public health side, which is lack of any clinical training, people that have no medical background and who are trained not in equitable distribution of resources, but in equity of outcome. And those two things by themselves are very, very dangerous. Do you agree with those two? And are there others? I agree with those two, and there are others. There are huge problems in medical training. And I have to point this out. Hitler could not have done what he did without the cooperation of the medical profession in Germany. And public health could not have done

what it did here and government agencies were it not for the cooperation of doctors. And I've been talking about this for a long time. We've got to do something about medical education because I think people go into medicine because they have a real desire to help people, but somehow that gets very corrupted and that's not what ends up happening. And so that's a big issue, medical, who we're letting into medical school and how we're training people and how they get institutionalized. And I think there's another problem too, and you mentioned critical thinking, and I'll take that just one step further. I just read John Abramson's book called Sickening, which I thought I was a subject expert on the misbehavior of drug companies. I've written a lot about it before COVID ever happened. But I learned a lot of new things in that book. And one of them is that

so much of what's in the medical literature that doctors are relying on for making decisions about patients is controlled by drug companies. Nobody sees the raw data. The FDA doesn't see the raw data. The peer reviewers often don't see the raw data. Even when the articles are clearly proven to be false, the journals won't retract them because they make millions, tens of millions of dollars every year on reprints. And so they're not about to retract an article that Merck or Pfizer or one of these drug companies might spend half a million to a million dollars buying in reprint form to give to doctors for drug reps to give to doctors. So what doctors are learning both in medical school

and once they get out of medical school leads them horribly astray, and most of them are not even aware of it. They are not aware. This is not deliberate on behalf of doctors. Yeah, it's the cozy relationship. Again, it's not that there is a guy twirling a mustache, you know, snidely whiplash,

twirling his mustache, showing up with a bag of cash. It's this interrelationship that is so profound where the regulators become executives in the company. The executives in companies become board members or they become cabinet members in the government. So this incredible incestuous relationship is really what you're talking about. But I think the, what's the word I'm looking for, the safeguard against it had always been good scientific training. But hearing you talk right now reminds me of what happened to me when I was interviewing for medical school. I was interviewing a medical researcher here in Southern California. And the interviewer looked at me and he goes,

what's the scientific method? And I was shocked at something so simple being asked of me. And I rolled through, you know, hypothesis, develop experiments, statistical analysis, repeat, repeat, repeat, theory. And he, you know, the guy was shocked that I knew the scientific method. He went, you're the first student to have answered the question with the actual methodology of science

out of many thousands of interviews I have done. That was 1979, 1980. And I assure you it's much worse now because the sort of scientific method, the careful scientific method is really only taught in a few institutions. Like it's like Caltech, MIT, hopefully my college still, but it's not, you know, Harvey Mudd. It's just not routinely what's taught is narratives, language classes. Yes, absolutely. And the influence of drug companies is incredible in medical school. I have a friend who is chief of her department at a school that I won't, at a major hospital, I won't say which one because I don't want to get her in trouble.

But she supervises residents and her rule is that residents cannot see drug reps while they are under her supervision. Oh, for sure. And she tells me regularly that at some point in time, they're going to fire her for this. Now, can you imagine? You're basically saying to medical students, I forbid you to have this outside influence that's pernicious and harmful. And the answer to that is the school might fire her for doing this. I mean, this is how bad it has become.

And so if we're ever going to have a country back, if we're ever going to have a medical system we can trust, all of these things have to be addressed. We can't just sweep this under the rug as people take off their masks and go about their daily business right now and say, oh, thank goodness we're past the worst of it. We're not past anything yet. We have a lot of work to do to get past any of it yet. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. And so that's the medical system, the public health system, a light sketch of those systems. Government, what's going on there generally? Is that the public health or is that just political expediency writ large?

Oh, it's more and more power grab and outsourcing decisions to government and centralizing government. I'm 65 years old. Today's my birthday, actually. So 66 years old today. So I make it sound like I'm 127 when I say these things. But when I was a kid in school, all school control was local. In other words, the principal was in charge of the building and the principal could fire teachers. And what was served in the cafeteria was under the jurisdiction of the cafeteria people who worked in the cafeteria, planned the menus and that sort of thing. Now it went from local control to the board control to now it's all outsourced to federal control in terms of how the money is distributed, what you can serve in the cafeteria.

You can't fire teachers anymore. I mean, there's a building in New York. I don't know if you know this. There's a building in New York that's three or four stories. And that's where teachers go while they're working on firing. And the average time, even if they've sexually abused a student, is seven, eight years to fire them while they're on the payroll, okay? So education, I mean, public education has gone downhill.

College educations, I mean, when I went to college, you didn't get to, if somebody said something you didn't like, there weren't any safe rooms with dolls and M&Ms so that you could go soothe yourself because somebody said something you didn't want to hear. This is mollycoddling. It's turning intelligent people into nitwits. And frankly, we see it here. We can't hire people right out of college here at my company. We'd be out of business. I'd be living in my car if we did that. So we have a lot to clean up in education

to get people to the place where we demand something of them. We demand academic rigor. We sure that they engage in groupthink and anything else is offensive, then we send them to medical school after that. That's where they're coming from. They have to have an undergraduate degree to get in. So we have to clean that up. And I'm sure you saw that NYU organic chemistry professor that got fired because he was too hard. And the guy was a textbook author. And there was great pride with our organic chemistry. The average grade was a C plus. And that was the mean grade. And half went below and half went above.

And that's it. And you killed yourself to get above. You just worked your ass off. And the fact that, again, we're bringing in people, we're giving them prescription pads and scalpels who haven't been through that, we should be very concerned about that. And then the first thing that jumped out of me, the very first thing in the pandemic that occurred to me was this centralization process. That not only government is more highly centralized, but medicine is more highly centralized. Doctors are now part of large systems.

They're employees. The clinical pathways are handed down. The sort of parameters of what will or will not be acceptable for clinical interventions is set from on high and often really, frankly, just could not be more wrong and outdated and just, frankly, misinformed. And, you know, the standard of care is often something that's amiss. I can't tell you how many times in my career I've been standing against the standard of care and been proven right, but it takes 10 years for the standard of care to implode. I will just point only to the, you know, the Sackler family and the opioid crisis and pain is the fifth vital sign. Pain is what the patient says

it is. Pain controls what the patient says it is. And if you don't treat pain as aggressively as you treat no pulse, you can be not just sued malpractice, but criminally and civilly taken to court because you are not adequately treating the pain. And that was all a sham. And I knew it when it was happening. And of course, all the regulatory bodies came after me, the Department of Mental Health, California Medical Association, Joint Commission on Hospital Accreditation, VA, all my own hospital administration, all came down like a ton of bricks. Because why? Because a heroin addict was uncomfortable and his smiley face went to an unhappy face and i refused to treat their

pain with an opiate in heron withdrawal in heron withdrawal and to take that a step further purdue and other opiate makers paid the federation of state medical boards to change the guidelines along with jaco and so we have that going on right now. The Federation of State Medical Boards is still an outside private entity. It's a foundation. It's telling the medical boards how to manage medical doctors in their states, which is why you see in almost all 50 states doctors getting in trouble for speaking out. And of course, this leads to the groupthink. It's designed to do that. So a doctor in a hospital or a medical institution sees a friend get in trouble. See what happened to that guy? He told the truth or that woman, she told the truth. Now her license is suspended or she's in some problem. Well, that brings everybody in line, doesn't it? And so I'm aggressively involved in defending doctors and health professionals. We have to get rid of that outside influence or that will never change either. Yeah, we are very prone to freezing in place when we see anybody get into trouble or even hear about somebody getting into trouble. We are afraid of the legal system.

It's a sort of Damocles that hangs over our head at all time. We're afraid of the regulatory system. We just want to be doing our job. And the thought that that sword will come down terrifies us. And so we freeze and we froze at the beginning of this pandemic completely. We froze and then we splintered. I'll tell you what we're going to do. We're going to bring Dr. Kelly Victory in here to continue the conversation. Thank you for giving me, answering my questions. Kelly's got many as well.

And so we will take a quick break and then bring it out to Kelly Victory. Thank you. Consumer price index yet again going up, stock market in turmoil. What's our government doing to quell the surge of inflation that is gutting American families? Oh yeah, they're spending more money and adding to the burden. Don't bury your head in the sand while your savings get decimated. It's time to do something about this. Visit birchgold.com. Now, I don't give investment advice, but you can visit birchgold, B-I-R-C-H, gold.com slash drew. Birch Gold will send you a free info kit on protecting

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There's nothing in medicine that doesn't boil down to a risk-benefit calculation. It is the mandate, public health, to consider the impact of any particular mitigation scheme on the entire population. This is uncharted territory, Drew. And welcome, Dr. Kelly Victor. Kelly, before we go on here, my Facebook appears to have been hacked during this conversation. And somebody is selling Bitcoin on there. Can you help us, Caleb, with that? It's not quite hacked.

I'm looking at it. They do this all the time where they copy your profile and make it look like you. So they can only trust people that have a verified badge. If you only trust the ones that have verified badges. I'll just block them on there. I blocked them already. I saw it. All right. It took me like 15 minutes to get there he's already done it well yeah it's just it's up on my on my thread right now again we're definitely he's he's got he's 30 years behind me and has a

faster uh i know true is not offering free bitcoin to people right now. Yeah, I mean, sorry about this. It looked kind of like a Nigerian prince kind of announcement. Thanks for mentioning it. Somebody said, the least good of a Dogecoin. Get the Birch Gold. Welcome to the show, Pam. Thank you so much for joining us, especially on your birthday. Happy birthday. I didn't know. Thank you. That's terrific. Drew and I talk about these things

all the time. I certainly have seen the downward spiral in medicine for well before this pandemic. It's been going on for a couple of decades now. I spend much of my time teaching and was very aware of this worrisome lack of critical thinking skills, the lack of personal accountability, the fact that these residents and medical students are coddled, to say the least. They can't work more than 10 or 12 hours without a break. When Drew and I were training, you went into the hospital on Friday morning and you left on Monday afternoon after, you know, a 96 hour shift. And it's how you actually learned how to manage things. So this has been going on for quite a while. What I hadn't seen prior to this pandemic and what I want to spend a few minutes talking about is the overwhelming censorship, the absolute ability to shut people down in their dissenting voices. Prior to this pandemic, robust, vigorous debate was a cornerstone of medicine. We did it with pride. We had morbidity and mortality monthly conferences

where you're behind closed doors. Doctors would duke it out on the tough cases. We openly spoke our minds. And if people disagreed, they disagreed and sometimes vigorously disagreed. For the first time, and that's really how you and I connected, was because you became aware that I was being mercilessly censored. I have had multiple complaints against my medical license during the pandemic, all by the way, having nothing to do with patient care, always for things that I said on radio or television. Talk a little bit about your experience with that piece of it, because I know you're also, we want to talk about some of the lawsuits that you're involved in. I'm spending tens of thousands

of dollars every month defending doctors and other health professionals, but even that is not new. When I opened my business in 1996, five days after I opened, a licensure board called on me, and we ended up in a five-year battle. This was about unlicensed practice. So in other words, these boards have been out of control for a long time. The state of Ohio was so intent on putting me away, I spent $160,000 in 1996 dollars defending myself, and I won, all right? They exhausted their rainy day fund and ended up in a lot of trouble as a result of what they spent going after me. So this is not new.

It's just bigger, kind of continuing the theme from the first part of the show. Now it has gotten to the place where, as you said, the person doesn't have to have any relationship with you at all. No standing. Some of the doctors we're defending, one, had never made a social media post before. This is a wild story. One time, this guy sees something that he can't resist responding to with like two lines it's not like a long dialogue or anything somebody in another state who never met him has no contact not a patient didn't like what he said called the medical board and said you should open an investigation of this guy and they did all too willing to do it just because somebody else in another state who never met this guy we We have another one where somebody who knew

somebody, this is not a medical doctor, it's a physical therapist, somebody who knew somebody told somebody who told a doctor that this person wasn't wearing a mask in the office. And that is the basis for the investigation. I mean, it can be a daisy chain of people alleging something. And on all of these medical board sites and PT boards and nursing boards, they're all doing it. They have this lovely language about how they have rigorously looked through the complaints and they only pursue the things that are really a threat to public health and public safety. Well, how can a statement that somebody makes on social media be a threat to anybody? It takes your breath away. So that's what's going on right now. And if we don't take care of this, it's one of the reasons why my organization has prioritized this particular issue.

We are going to live in a country where the only information about health we're allowed to get is from government-run institutions where everybody dutifully repeats what they're told to repeat. There will be no independent opinions left, and we can't let that happen. It's just too important of an issue. So to give you an idea of the size of it, I think that just to defend the people who are in trouble right now, we probably are going to have to spend $50 million if nobody else gets in trouble. It takes your breath away how big this is. Yeah. Well, you take the case that you and I are both well aware of, Dr. Meryl Nass up in Maine. Here's a physician who simply for talking about the importance of the iDrug, IVM and HCQ, words I'm not supposed to say on air if possible, just for talking about the importance

of those drugs and prescribing them, she not only had her medical license suspended, but she was remanded to psychiatric evaluation before she could even apply to get her license back. This is a la North Korea type stuff. I mean, this is terrifying. They can send you to a psych hospital for saying something that they don't like. Drew and I, I'm broadcasting from California today. Drew's in California. I do not have a California medical license, but California passed AB 2098, which fundamentally criminalizes a physician for saying the kinds of things that I am saying, for saying things that go against the narrative. Where does this stop? I mean, how are you fighting for these physicians? What's the basis of the argument from a legal perspective?

Well, it depends on the situation. So in Oregon, we sued the medical board and the members personally for taking away a license without due process. Medical license is a piece of property. So you can't come take my house away from me and just walk up on the sidewalk and say, you're out of here, I'm in. They're not allowed to do it. But you can't do that with a medical license either.

So we've sued them personally on that basis. Another thing that we're doing is just wearing them out. We've had several of these cases where, you know, these medical board members all have other jobs. So one of the things you can do is just say for every medical doctor that gets in trouble or nurse or nurse practitioner, whoever it is they're going after, we're going to do this dog and pony show where we fly in people from out of state. It costs tens of thousands of dollars to do this, but they sit there with their arms folded for, you know, looking up at the sky for five, six days. And in one state,

they were rattling their cages about, we're going to go after doctors who support this particular doctor who's in trouble. And I put the word out, we'll do this for every doctor that gets in trouble. So these people were looking, you know, saying, well, we have other jobs. And if we have to sit here six, seven, eight days, I'm six more doctors, nobody will be employed. And they just started leaving everybody alone. So the only way that this ends is with aggressive fighting back. And the biggest problem we have really is that health professionals think that they're going to logically, this makes logical sense, it just doesn't work. All I need to do is provide the right information to the lovely investigator who seems so friendly, and then they'll understand what I'm doing. And it's free speech and the whole nine yards, and they

usually bury themselves with the conversation. The other thing is there are a lot of lawyers working in this space who are not necessarily, they're well intentioned, but they don't necessarily know what they're doing. And those are the hardest to clean up is the ones where lawyers have messed it up a little bit. But that's what we're doing. We're just spending our way to success. And unfortunately, that's what it's going to take. Have you come against, you know, the Federation of State Medical Boards, in my estimation,

is a huge part of the problem. As you said, they are an independent, they're a private organization. They are not a government organization. In fact, it's hard to even find their mailing address, let alone any much information about them. But they somehow ended up advising all of the state medical boards. They really have been directing the state medical boards. They've come out with these mandates or these statements about what they're going to do. What do you know about the Federation of State Medical Boards and how can they be unwound? I wrote about that 20 years ago. This is not new and they influence medical boards in other countries. It's not limited to the United

States. They're funded by licensure fees and things of that nature, exam fees. They also get a lot of money from drug companies through their foundation and some of it they take directly. The only way that we're going to fix that, and I said, we've been wicked good at this and that's good because we've won at the state level, but on some of, we need to lose so that we can get into the court system outside the medical board and then take this to the Supreme Court. And my opinion about this is that it'll be expensive to do this. I have another case right now in front of the Supreme Court, but it'll be expensive to do it. But that's where the decision gets made. Who is in charge of the medical board and who should be in charge of the medical board is local. It's a state issue. The state legislature authorizes the medical board, the medical board and who should be in charge of the medical board is local. It's a

state issue. The state legislature authorizes the medical board, the nursing board, the dietetics board, all of the boards, right? And so if you get this back to state control, then you can do what I did in Ohio, which is, again, you spend your way to success and then you go to the legislature and you say, look at this ridiculous mess that these people made that's costing everybody money now. License your fees going up for everybody because of this mess that they created. And you can start to rein them in at the state level. And we can change the whole regulatory scheme. And we have a very unusual opportunity right now that we should take advantage of. And that is that the unlicensed health professionals, and for every licensed professional, there are 10 who aren't. I'm talking about naturopaths in states where we don't license them, like here in Ohio.

I'm talking about herbalists and body workers and people that have been chased around by these boards for a long time. The naturopaths and the alternative healers are now on the same page as the licensed health professionals. And if I can just get 5% of all of them to give me $100 a year, I'll have $115 million a year to fight with these people. And I can win get 5% of all of them to give me $100 a year, I'll have $115 million a year to fight with these people. And I can win for that kind of money. I'm winning without it. But I'll tell you what, you give me that kind of money, and we will win and win and win and win. We can just beat the crap out of them, which is what you have to do. This is not a battle that's going to be handled by nice people. I used to be a nice people. I'm not anymore. Can't be a nice people and win battles. That ended two and a half years ago, right? Well, Drew is far more charitable than I

am with regard to letting our fellow physicians off the hook on this. I don't understand the behavior of some of my colleagues, the vast majority of my colleagues. I'm an anomaly, Drew's an anomaly. We're willing to speak out and at least question the narrative, ask the questions, bring to the fore different things that we are seeing, patterns that don't make sense,

mandates that don't make sense. The vast majority of physicians aren't, and I think they are complicit in this and have, frankly, caused much of the, we've brought this upon ourselves. It's perhaps a conversation for another day. A piece that I think is new, as I said, that I think has really driven this is the prevalence of social media. The media, the mainstream media, yes, is a huge component, but it's the Twitter and the Facebook and YouTube and all of that that I think has allowed, because it's taken censorship to a new level. You can absolutely deride, ridicule, censor,

cancel somebody, destroy their lives, dox them. And then it's really scary. People will shut up. We had a really great interview a week ago with Robert Kennedy Jr. and talked about his new documentary, which by the way, was taken down yesterday. There was a coordinated assault on his SSL and his documentary was taken down. This is the United States. I mean, how is this happening? Who's driving this? And it's one thing to say, I'm interested in Pam's answer to that, but the part that I find the most disturbing is that oftentimes with, if not the full support of, collusion with federal government officials and cabinet level sorts of interaction. That's the part that, you know, the First Amendment doesn't really apply to a private organization called Twitter.

They can sort of do as they please, even though I do want to hear what Pam's notions are. But when the federal government is colluding with them to take away First Amendment privileges, that's where we have just an unconscionable situation. Go ahead, Pam. Right. Well, that's true. But, you know, excuse me, Kelly, when you mentioned that you're disappointed in colleagues, all right, you know, the number one thing, there were Nuremberg trials for doctors in Germany. I don't know if people are aware of that. And you know what most of them said when they were on trial? I was following instructions. Following orders. I was following orders. Yeah. And there's a great book by Robert Marwell I read a few months ago about Mengele. Mengele was a well

respected doctor while he was at Auschwitz. and he was sending severed children's heads in Malteheit to prestigious universities in Berlin. So this, again, not new, just happening again, because we haven't solved the problem that was left over from World War II. But we don't have a First Amendment anymore. The bright light in all of this, I don't know if you saw, but on Friday, I think it was, a judge ordered Fauci and several other federal government officials to show up for an in-person deposition about this very issue, about the control of social media by the federal government. And I'm sure that they'll try to appeal this and worm out of it, but I don't think ultimately they're going to be able to get out of answering for it. And this will be the beginning, I'm hoping,

in addition to some things that we're doing, that will be the takedown of Mr. Fauci, who has been in that position without earning any position like this. He never was qualified for it, by the way. But now, clearly, he needs to go. And he needs to be punished for what he did. What is it you surmise they did? I'm watching my restream here and they're like, well, what about COVID? What happened to COVID? Why did this happen? There's a lot of desire to see through the opaque, past being a big they. It's everything from the World Health Organization to there's a lot of evidence that this was planned in advance. Moderna, I don't know if you read the dossier that I put together on Peter Daszak that was the basis for the lawsuit we filed against Daco Health. But I found an article was published in February of this year showing that the peptide sequence that's in the virus where the fur and cleavage site is, that there's a perfect match with a Moderna patent that was filed in 2016.

Right. Yeah. So this was all planned. And so the only way that you can force people to get a vaccination is if you can convince them we're having a pandemic. They used a fake test. You can control all outside voices. Nobody gets to be heard unless you're really loud like we all are. And you find alternative ways to reach an audience. So you gin up a fake pandemic and then you gin up a solution to it. Fauci's always been preferential to terrible drugs that hurt people. So when he came out with remdesivir, I mean, I wrote my doctoral dissertation on the HIV AIDS thing and was well aware of his shenanigans with the AIDS patients, right? So I wasn't surprised when that became the drug of choice, right? And I wasn't surprised when the pressure to seek the solution, let's put it that way, under the EUA became the

end game and it's made the drug companies quite wealthy. And we really don't know how wealthy it's made some of the people in government. But even if there's no direct payment, one example I can give you of what happens if you're a good little soldier for the drug companies was the guy who introduced, I can't remember his name right now, who introduced the Medicare Part D, who managed to get written into that provision that the government cannot negotiate with drug companies on prices. Whatever the drug companies want to charge, they have to let them charge it. He got a $2 million a year job with the lobbying firm for the pharma. It's called pharma,

a lobbying firm that handles big pharma. So you get well rewarded if you are a good little soldier and you do what you're told. So it's a reward system that rewards this bad behavior that causes all this kind of stuff to happen. Well, I don't know if you saw just last week, hopefully everybody knows by now, the CDC decided to add the COVID vaccines to the childhood vaccination schedule, as was recommended by the 15-person, quote, independent advisory board, the ACIP. And I firmly believe, as does Robert Kennedy Jr. and certainly others, that the entire reason they've been pushing so hard to get that vaccine onto the childhood vaccination schedule with absolutely zero evidence that any child stands to benefit from it is because

the vaccine manufacturers now will have blanket liability immunity in perpetuity as a result of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. So they got it on the schedule last week, Friday. Within minutes of that announcement, Pfizer's stock skyrocketed. Their stock price went up 300% within minutes of that announcement because everybody knows if you invest in Pfizer, you're investing in a company that can't be sued for any ill effect of the COVID vaccines. This is unconscionable. And how we can allow that to happen is beyond me. And so somebody is getting very, very rich.

By the way, they also at the same time announced, they being Pfizer, announced that they were increasing the price of their vaccines. Now that as soon as it made it to the childhood schedule, they announced a 80% price increase, I think it was. So it is really, really corrupt business. It is. One little thing I'll insert here. We think that there is an opportunity to sue them, even with all the protections. And the reason is four different courts, a lot of people don't know this, but four different courts have ruled in four different cases that if there is malfeasance, all the protections under the PrEP Act and everything go away. And so it's not something I'm ready to take on right at this minute, because we got our

hands full with this thing that we just filed against Echo Health. But at some point in time, we are probably going to take on vaccine makers as well. I think there's an opening to do that. For the benefit of the folks listening, I want to remind people that Peter Daszak and Echo Health Alliance was the nonprofit, quote unquote, through which Anthony Fauci funneled U.S. taxpayer dollars to the lab in Wuhan to conduct what clearly was gain of function research. Talk a little bit about what is your case against Peter Daszak and EcoHealth Alliance? Yeah, so we sued, first of all, you're right. That's how the money went to Wuhan. And I don't really think anybody, I read this morning, the odds that this did not come

from a lab are like one in a hundred million. So I've been right about that since 2020. But in any case, we filed a lawsuit. It's a toxic tort lawsuit, which is interesting. This is a typical lawsuit that gets filed. So if DuPont puts chemicals in the drinking water and people get sick, then you can sue them. All the people who got sick or cancer, whatever, can sue DuPont. So the first thing is that it's very difficult to throw this case out because it's not unique. This type of case is filed every day in the United States. Okay.

So we filed against Echo Health, Peter Daszak, his wife, Janet Cunningham Daszak, Ian Lipkin, who was part of the cover-up at Columbia University, and Ralph Baric, who is at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. We filed against them a toxic tort, claiming that they unleashed this thing on humanity. And as a result, there are six and a half million people, they say, who died of this virus, hundreds of thousands permanently injured, and et cetera. So that's the basis for the lawsuit. We filed it in federal court a couple of weeks ago. Of course, usually what happens next is the motion to dismiss. Interestingly enough, they instead filed for a 50-day extension on Friday to respond.

I consider that a pretty good sign on our side of the issue because usually they just can't wait to get into court and try to dismiss it. So we're optimistic about this. And we believe we also filed as some of the defendants were John and Jane Doe because we think that there are many other people who've been part of this whole conspiracy and cover-up and everything else, and we believe that we'll end up naming them as additional defendants and that there will be many, many, many more plaintiffs as well. So we're the first people to go after the big people behind this. And by the way, everybody's filed lots of lawsuits, lots of good ones, lots of people representing people. But I wanted to do this. We worked on this for a year. It's a difficult case. But one advantage we had was a whistleblower who came out of Echo Health and gave us a lot of their documents, which was very helpful.

You talked a little bit about this case. I think it's coming out of, I think it's Missouri, the case where Anthony Fauci and I think six others have been remanded to testify under oath. And it's Deborah Birx and Walensky and Fauci, a handful of them. Yeah. Yes. Where do you think that's going to go? I mean, Fauci is so slippery. You know, he's been asked, as you well know, in front of Congress multiple times by Rand

Paul, you know, about the gain of function thing. And he always obfuscates and manages to dodge things. And as far as I'm concerned, he's out-perjured himself because he keeps claiming this wasn't gain-of-function and he wasn't involved when he clearly was. Where do you think this case in Missouri will go? I think that we have two really good AGs. The AG in Missouri and Landry in Louisiana did this together. And I think that what's

happening is the walls are closing in on Mr. Fauci. In other words, he's had his 40-year reign of terror where he's always, like you said, he's a slippery guy and he manages to tap dance and all that sort of thing. And he's used to dealing with Congress where he can lie and then just go back to the office and go about his business. And if you notice, I understand everybody's trying to do the best that they can, but what's happened with Fauci in Congress is basically theater. Get out your popcorn, sit down, watch people scream at Fauci, and then he squirms, and he gets angry, and he says he didn't do it. And then what happens? Months later, nothing happens, right? Well, sooner or later, most of the time,

people who are doing bad things will escalate. This is how serial killers get caught. After they've killed people for 40 years, they get careless, right? And then they get caught. Well, that's what's happening with Mr. Fauci and a lot of his cohorts is that they've gone too far this time and they've made way too many people angry. They've hurt way too many people. And, you know, we're just not going to let it go. If I have to sue him 100, if I have to file 150 more lawsuits to get him, I'm going to do it. And I don't think these AGs are going to back down either. So the bottom line is he's going to have to sit in a deposition and answer questions about his relationship with Mark Zuckerberg. What did you tell these people? And a lot of it's already been disclosed in emails.

So we'll see how he's going to lie about what he has in writing. Like the emails are very- How do we understand that this was a worldwide phenomenon? That's a part that's somewhat- Yeah, yeah. Among many astonishing qualities.

The fact that everyone followed, was convinced by China. It seemed like the UK, well, the World Health Organization obviously was listening to China, but the UK and our health officials were as well, which was the really, again, it's such an extraordinary. I talked to somebody just the other day who was inside the White House when this was all going on, and he said there were certain people, they weren't operatives, I don't think. He said they just decided you had to do this one thing. It reminds me of people on the mental health front where you try to talk about alternatives

to treating opiate addiction. They go, there's one treatment. He said they would get red in the face and start screaming and would just become grit their teeth and would not be open to any conversation other than you don't understand this is how it is we have special information and insight and this is how it's going to go that's the part that scares me that they were in a position to do that and there were that there were people that were that poor in their decision making right and also people who were unable to read the medical literature.

I mean, we had Scott Atlas speak at our conference last year, and he sat in front of the group and he wrote about this in his book that he asked Deborah Birx the first day he was in the White House, what study convinced her that everybody needed to wear a mask? And she brought up this case report about a beauty salon in Texas, a case report, and it's a bad one. I mean, if you read it, it's a bad one. I would never rely on something like that. And he was dumbfounded. He said, not one time did he ever show up at a meeting where Burks or Fauci brought medical literature and articles to talk about. He always showed up. So you've got a couple of people who are just in control of 337 million people who are just making

stuff up as they go along and everybody's kowtowing to them, right? So it's the incompetence reaching very high levels. The incompetence we're seeing at local level for health professionals and for institutions and I mean, it's all the way up. So that's part of it. I agree. I'm beginning to understand that incompetence is a major role in all this. And a lot of it on the local and state level was just ridiculous. But how do they, do they literally, I'm just thinking about school closures, for instance. I was on a television broadcast that night when the LA Unified School District decided to close down.

And I kept hammering the guy, like, what are you doing? Why are you doing this? Who told you? And in fact, the CDC and Fauci had not said to do it at that point. Because I kept saying, is the CDC telling you to do this? No, they're not. We just think it's the right thing to do. Eventually, they did.

Do they delude themselves into believing that by championing something like school closures, they were not the source of the mandates that the governors eventually picked up and the school unions eventually delivered? Do they really believe in their heart that they were not part of that, that it was all done locally on a state level, even though they were sort of the source of the information that the state was using to make their decisions? Well, I think you had a bunch of power-hungry people. I mean, the behavior of health authorities, you know, when you go back to the 1976 flu made-up pandemic,

five cases, and it's a pandemic. The CDC had a war room, five cases, had a war room with doctors staffing phones 24 hours a day waiting for the case number six, five cases, had a war room with doctors staffing phones 24 hours a day waiting for the case number six. All right, with a vaccine, we're going to give every person in the country a vaccine. You're talking, it was incompetent then. It's worse. That's an episode of incompetence. When there were five cases of what we now call AIDS in the United States, Fauci declared a pandemic. There were emails going back and forth. Oh my gosh, it's our opportunity. They look at this as opportunity. And all you got to do is give them a little media attention and a little bit of power. And so I remember, just to tell you what we had going on in Ohio, you won't believe this story, but Amy Acton was the head of public

health in Ohio. She made up a story. I wrote about this in my book. She made up a story about being homeless and food insecure. Her mother finally came public and said that never happened. She made it up. On her medical license, she had drug and alcohol problems were listed. And that doesn't disqualify her from holding a medical license, but lying about your background certainly should. The day that she locked down Ohio, she was smiling for the cameras. If you saw this, it's bizarre. It's like she's at a book she was smiling for the cameras. If you saw this, it's bizarre. It's like she's at a book signing at Barnes and Noble. I mean, having the time of her life, here she is, Amy Acton from Northeastern Ohio, who's got the power of 11 and a half million people right under her thumb. And she enjoyed it. And she would cry every day on air. I mean, she was quite the actress, showing people how to make masks out

of spare scraps of material at home. It would make your head hurt to watch this. It just would make your head hurt. And the governor eventually purged anybody from the press corps who asked her any questions because she couldn't answer them, right? So everybody who showed up was a sycophant, was willing to listen to her drivel every day and report it to the public as if it was the gospel. And so we're talking about gross incompetence that became worse as people got fame and fortune from it. You know, they want to name a street after her in Columbus. I'm going to move out of the city if they do that. I mean, it just- No, I think you can't underestimate that

component of it. If I put on my psychologist hat, I think the number of people who glommed on to a little bit of power and fame and sort of limelight during this, the guys who were dumping sand in skate parks in California. These are people who sat around and hatched up ideas and had the authority. All of a sudden, they have the ability to, you know, you're letting me, I can get the backhoe and fill up this thing with sand and feel really important. You know, all you have to do is watch the guys at TSA at the airport. These are people who have high school degrees at best, who get a badge and a uniform and just really like this newfound authority. So I do think that that's a component, Pam. There are a lot of people who would never have been on the pulpit, would never have had a microphone in their face ever, who all of a sudden are saying, this is really cool, and I'm making

decisions on the fly, and I like this. This feels really good. But they also get very angry when you push back. That's the part that I find astonishing. We had the operations director here at the brand new stadium for the Ram Stadium for the Super Bowl, was saying, we got your number. We see you. If you take a box of popcorn and take your mask down

and eat it for 10 minutes, we know what you're doing. We're looking for you. Who the F are you, sir, to be policing the citizens of this city who want to enjoy a football game with their kids it it is i myself had it happen i was at my own hospital uh trying to get the vaccine i wanted to get the vaccine but the early days of the vaccine and i was screamed at that i had the wrong papers i mean it was a 24 year old young man in a uniform, clearly just acquired the uniform, was screaming at me about the wrong papers. And I had two thoughts simultaneously. One was, do you enjoy this, talking to a senior physician like this, number one?

And number two, it reminded me of a border crossing in a World War II movie. And I always wondered how people got like that. And there it was. And by the same time, I spoke to some governors, friends of mine, these governors are friends, who were not of that persuasion. And they were deeply troubled that they were being forced to put a mask mandate in, to mandate anything. They're like, that wasn't why I became a governor. I didn't become a governor to tell people how to live their life. It's anathema to my instincts not to everybody

evidently right but that and that's it this country's been cloven in two because they have co-opted this very human you know that this this part of human nature that certain people will absolutely gravitate to that authority it's where you where we launched this entire new term, CARE, during this pandemic. All of these people who otherwise had no authority, but somehow are empowered that they can yell at you in the target for going the wrong way down the aisle and feel really virtuous that they're doing it. One of the stories I'll share with you is a friend of mine, client of Wellness Forum actually in England, in the UK. And he walked into, this is when they were first starting to let people out a little

bit. He walked into an empty store, all right? And it's one of those places, we would call it a convenience store here. And they had a place where you could ship stuff, right? So he walks in and he goes right over. He's the only person in the store, except for the store clerk who's at the cash register. He goes over to the shipping area to ship this package. All right. And she makes him go outside and come back in and walk on the

arrows around the store to get to the package area. So it's just somebody who's gets a power trip. I'm going to make you follow the rules. Right. And so it's almost like a form of contagion where people start, um, people catch on to this type of behavior and's almost like a form of contagion where people start, people catch on to this type of behavior and it becomes like a form of groupthink. So I think the lesson here is that regular everyday people can become part of this terrible groupthink. That happens in medicine. It happens in government. Everybody just gets swept up in the moment. We want to all want to be heroes. There was so much reward too. Did you notice how the news media was always pointing out some tireless person who's wearing her mask and at the hospital saving lives. And, you know, so they made it a virtuous thing to become like this,

this, I don't even know what to call people who get into this, but you know what I'm talking about was virtuous to be part of this. Sure. I want to spend the last few minutes, if I could, talking to you about really something perhaps more positive, which is where we take this, where it helps us to actually redefine medicine. You were talking before we went on the show that you were just down in Texas at a new medical clinic. And the group that you and I are, some of the groups you and I are involved in talk about this concept of a parallel medical system that's going to end up coming out of this debacle that we call COVID. Talk to us a little bit about where you see physicians and healthcare and medicine going that's positive,

that's going to come out, you know, the phoenix rising from the ashes of COVID? Well, I'm excited about the future. I mean, I couldn't get up and do what I do every day to solve this problem if I didn't think we were going to end up in a better place. So here I am, I'm in my mid-60s. I've been hearing about government reform my whole adult life. I didn't see any government reform, education reform. I don't see any medical reform. I don't see any. This is the chance to really reform it. And so I restarted. Look at all the people who pulled their children out of school. Look at some of the people who I think are on their way out of government right now. But in terms of medicine, what I want to see happen, and I think we're beginning to see the signs of this going to

happen, is I remember when I was a kid, we had a family doctor. The family doctor took care of my sister and I and my mother and my father, my maternal grandparents, my aunt, uncle, and five cousins. We all lived pretty close to each other. And that doctor was a trusted, valuable person in our community. I respected him. My parents respected him. And he was independent. Nobody told him what to do. There weren't any insurance companies and that sort of thing telling him what to do. And he knew our family. We're going to go back to that. We're seeing people flee medicine.

And many of those people are going to find out that they can set up their practices. We own a school. We train health professionals, by the way. We've never been busier than we are right now with people who are fleeing medicine and saying, I want to be in practice for myself. And I'm very excited about this. We're going to go back to a network of independent doctors who do what their conscience tells them to do and have relationships with their patients. And this is what we need in medicine. And eventually, I've been working on this for years because I intend to start my own healthcare system,

not right now, but I'll work on the DAS acts of the world first and then I'll do it. But my calculations that I did about 12, 13 years ago is if you withdraw about 10 percent of the revenue from the medical system right now, it'll collapse on its own. 10 percent. People think you have to have like half of the hospitals closed or whatever. You only have to have 10 percent of the revenue pulled out and it's on the way to happen right now. It is happening right now and the system will collapse on itself. And I saw this a few weeks ago. I want to say it was maybe at the beginning of October, a hospital in Missouri closed. They shipped their patients to two other hospitals in the area. They had too many lawsuits. Nobody was working there. The hospitals are devastated. Medical centers, people refused to get the shot and had to leave. And so they had

to close. And that's going to be, you're going to see that happening everywhere. And I don't, people are always worried about disruption and it's not fun, but without disruption, you can't fix anything. And this is our chance to fix stuff. And before they put me in the ground, I will see the return to independent practice. We'll see the return to restrained government. We're going to see the return to education systems that demand excellence. And we're going to see these media, giant media companies completely discredited and brought down. How long? How long is it going to take? How long? How long do I have to wait? see these media, giant media companies completely discredited and brought down. I fully believe that. How long is it going to take? How long? How long do I have to wait? Whatever you do, don't get the vaccine, okay?

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Right? So here's what I tell people in answer to that question, right? So it took many decades and little tiny steps in this direction that were almost imperceptible, which is how we got here. Because if they'd been big enough to get somebody's attention, we could have stopped at them, right? So what's going to happen is it's a little thing. So we get this doctor's license back.

We got a mask mandate. The Supreme Court in Pennsylvania said no masking of kids in school. We are the people who got rid of the vax passport in New York City and Boston. So you're seeing a lot of organizations like us and us out there, this little victory, this little victory, this family pulls their kids out of school, another one over here does it. And this is the dismantling of the system. I know what everybody wants is they want to wake up next Tuesday. Fauci's arrested at nine, Birx is arrested at ten. Not everybody. That's what I want. That's what I want. And by the way, it reminds me of,

it reminds me of a old saying about bankruptcy. How do you go bankrupt very slowly and suddenly and suddenly. And it kind of goes slow, slow, slow, slow. And then all of a sudden you're there. And three o'clock in the afternoon, we open the champagne. It's back to 2019. That's not how this is going to happen. It's going to be a long, hard road. And I've said this only half kidding. I'm planning to live to be 100. My last day on the planet, I'm going to be in court

in the morning. Then I'm going to come to the office and help sick people. I'm probably going to teach a class that night and go to bed and just not get up the next morning. And I'm only half kidding when I say that I am going to live to be 100. But I probably will be in court. We need you till 100. Well, it's interesting because when the announcement came out last week about the CDC adding the vaccines to the childhood immunization schedule, my comment to the folks I was with was they may have just given the greatest boon to homeschooling and charter schools that we've ever seen. I think it may just be the thing. And to be clear, the CDC has zero legislative authority. The decision whether or not to add these vaccines or make them mandatory for children to attend public schools

is still left up to the states, to be clear. But the reality is that most states will go along with the recommendation of the CDC and the issue about the blanket immunity still stands. But I think that this may be the thing that finally drives people to say, I'm not doing it. Enough is enough. I'll do what I need. I'll make the sacrifices I need to make to coordinate with my neighbors, my friends, whoever, and we're taking our kids out of the school system. So from your lips to God's ears, I hope, Pam, that that's where we're going with the healthcare system as well. just retire and wait and find interesting things to do. There are places I could go. If I didn't think this was solvable, I wouldn't be working on it 18 hours a day, right? So I believe it's a solvable problem. How do people support your efforts? You know, you're putting tremendous amounts of money into defending physicians, which I think is critically

important because we have got to push back on this or medical, you know, tyranny is going to be a really gentle word for what's about to happen. If we don't defend the only physicians willing to engage in critical thinking and to push back against the narrative and to do what's best for their patients. How can people support what you're doing? Okay, great. So the first thing is makeamericansfreeagain.com. Makeamericansfreeagain.com is our nonprofit website. We are 501c3. You can go there and donate. If you're a healthcare professional, you can sign up for our Healthcare Professional Defense Fund. You'll find the forms there. You can also read the DAS Act lawsuit. Tomorrow it'll be posted. That's kind of interesting reading as well. My email address, pampopper at msn.com.

Feel free to email me. I put out a newsletter every Monday, videos Tuesday through Friday. That's all free. All right. So you can sign up for free stuff and stay informed about what we're doing. So feel free to email me. And if you'd like to start a Make Americans Free Again group, it's the best thing ever. I rely on my group for everything. I mean, 17 people have gotten a job in my group, many of them healthcare professionals, right? We have homeschool mentorship programs in the groups. We save small businesses. We had a six-acre community garden this summer. We grew enough food to feed everybody in the group. Yeah. So, so the groups are involved in raising money, but also making local life livable. So if you're interested in that, please send me an email as well. Fantastic. There we go. This is,

it is fantastic. It's been an interesting, interesting conversation. And just if I can throw my own personal sort of support into the ring, I had this extraordinary experience in medicine, straddling private practice, hospital practice, psychiatric hospital practice, addiction medicine. And because of that, I had an experience across 40 years in my clinical life that it just isn't being had it just no one's had it it's no one's no one has had it and no one's having it for sure going forward but even back in those days to be an internist live a full internal medicine practice and live in a psychiatric hospital world and see how that's all working. I believe I have some insights that might help you when things kind of need a reordering, let's say, because there's lots and lots and lots of just despicable shortfalls in the system. And if you don't attend to particularly this

relationship between mental health and physical health and medical practice and how we operate, it's just going to be this, you know, it's going to be more problems possibly. So please, if we can be of help in any way, and I know Kelly's had a very interesting clinical experience. She may have her own sort of insights. I speak on your behalf, I think when I say we'd be happy to help you out. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you. We'll call it any suggestions that you have, anything you think we should be doing. I'm all ears. I just want to do this thing, get it right, and restore our country. I'm more thinking about what you're going to do once things start

collapsing, like you say. What are the priorities? How you do this how do you get you know all the pieces of the puzzle together and there's there's a lot of stuff that gets left out these days that has got to be sort of addressed in some fashion of course not the least of which is you know chronic mental mental illness custodial care these kinds of things that you know and and what is psychiatry and how does it work anymore? And so I have ideas about that. At least advantaged people. I mean, we'll all be fine in healthcare no matter what, right? We get sick, we know who to go to, but there's so many people who are slaves to the system

because they don't have the economic capacity to look beyond the system. And that's something we have to be very concerned about. Yeah, very much so. Well, thank you very much, Pam Popper. Again, the website, do you want to give us that? I don't see it on. MakeAmericansfreeagain.com, wellnessforumhealth.com is my company's website. We do train health professionals who are looking for opportunities outside the system, and we're supporting.

My main thing that I do all day long really is make Americans free again. So go there, help us out, start a group, donate, join if you're a healthcare professional. We do have to solve this problem. And Kelly, thank you as always. And happy birthday again. Yes, happy birthday, Pam. Absolutely. Happy birthday. Working on freeing the country. Actually, what better way to spend your birthday? Yeah, I agree. And Kelly and I will be back together next Wednesday, not this Wednesday. I don't know that we have a guest cooked yet. No. A week from this Wednesday, Susan. Right. Right. Yes, the second. Essentially eight days. November 2nd.

I will be in here tomorrow taking calls. We'll do that for an hour. I'm also speaking to Nicole Angemi. She has a new book out. Nicole is an autopsy technician. She has a brilliant website. Let's see. Mrs. MRS underscore Angemi, A-N-G-E-M-I,

if you want to see some interesting path specimens. And she has this thing called The Gross Room where she stumps everybody with this pathology. Not for the faint of heart. Not for the faint of heart. Not for the faint of heart. I wanted Kelly to be on the show and meet her. We'll bring her back. We'll bring her back. But we tried to rush her in because the book is coming out.

But I'll bring Nicole back anytime. And she does sometimes, she'll show us specimens and try to stump us. She'll give us the case, show us specimens and go, what is that? And it's a lot of fun. How did this person die? Yeah, how did this person die or what was this? And she has medical obscura. It's disgusting.

She's into the obscure pathologically. So it's fun. But anyway, Kelly, thank you so much. You got to go get the horses. It's our Halloween special. Does anyone want to be back until after Halloween? No, yeah. I'm in sunny Southern California today. Oh, you're here. That i have a i have a reprieve from the

four leggers um and i'll see you next wednesday november 2nd next wednesday right absolutely thank you for coming earlier thank you dr pop to pam popper and uh we will see you all tomorrow at 2 30 coming in a little early tomorrow for so i can do nicole and then take calls from everybody who come in at 2 30 tomorrow uh with Nicole and Jimmy and then your call. See you then. Thank you, Kelly. Thank you, Kelly. Thanks.

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