Ask Dr. Drew - Pentagon Neuroscientist: How AI Bots Are Faking Iran War Videos To Hack Your Brain w/ Dr. Nicholas Wright, Nir Eyal & Mark Malkoff — Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 597

Episode Date: March 13, 2026

The war in Iran is generating a massive wave of AI-generated propaganda, fake war videos, and bot-driven “hot takes” – all designed to manipulate your emotions and hack your brain. How do you spot the fakes and protect your mind from digital manipulation? Pentagon advisor Dr. Nicholas Wright reveals how to fight back against the manipulation, and psychologist Nir Eyal explains the power of an “internal locus of control.” Dr. Nicholas Wright is a neuroscientist and advisor to the Pentagon Joint Staff who researches the brain, technology, and security at University College London, Georgetown University, the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and the National Defense University. He previously worked as a neurology doctor in London and Oxford and has authored several books on brain science, technology, and global security. Read his latest book WARHEAD at https://amzn.to/3P9IgV5 and follow at https://x.com/nicholasdwright⠀Nir Eyal writes, consults, and teaches about the intersection of psychology, technology, and human potential. He previously taught at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and the Hasso Plattner Institute of Design at Stanford. He is the author of Hooked, Indistractable, and the new book Beyond Belief available at https://amzn.to/4lhfKwI. Follow at https://x.com/nireyal⠀Mark Malkoff is a comedian, author, and host of The Carson Podcast. Over twelve years he interviewed more than 400 individuals connected to Johnny Carson and The Tonight Show for his book Love Johnny Carson (available at https://amzn.to/4umfbpF) featuring stories from guests, producers, and comedians about Carson’s career, show moments, and personal life. Follow at https://x.com/mmalkoff 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 • STRONG CELL – If you want to feel more like your younger self, go to https://strongcell.com/ and use code DREW for 20% off. • AUGUSTA PRECIOUS METALS – Thousands of Americans are moving portions of their retirement into physical gold & silver. Learn more in this 3-minute report from our friends at Augusta Precious Metals: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/gold⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or text DREW to 35052 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Hosted By • Dr. Drew Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/drdrew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, we've got several interesting guests today. Obviously, we're on an off-site studio. We have Dr. Nicholas Wright, neuroscientist, advisor to the Pentagon, worked as a physician in London and research on strategic and international studies near Aeyol, who writes and consults and teaches about the intersection of psychology and technology. And finally, we're going to talk to a comedian and get a little levity with Mark Malkoff, Malkov, excuse me. But the general theme here is going to be how AI is taking over,

taking over our minds, how we're being manipulated, what we know of or how we can assess the truth. We're going to look at that from a couple of angles, and we're going to start with Dr. Nicholas Wright, right after this. Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopaths start this fact. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous.

I'm a doctor for a sick. Where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveland all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. Do you have trouble? You can't stop and you want to help stop it. I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. Of first, Dr. Nicholas Wright, as I said, he is an advisor to the Pentagon, joint staff, researches brain technology and security at University of College London, Georgetown, and the Center for Strategic and International Studies. And the National Defense University. He would work as a neurologist in Lent, Oxford.

And his latest book is Warhead, How the Brain Shapes War, and War Shapes the Brain. There it is. You can follow Dr. Wright on X. Nicholas and I-C-H-O-L-A-S, Nicholas D. Wright, with a W-W-R-I-G-H-T. And you can also follow at Intelligent Biology.C-O-U-K. Dr. Wright, welcome to the program. Ruth, thank you very much for having me on. So let's start with your book.

Tell me about the book and why I should read it. I mean, it's a book about why humans go to war, and it's a book about if there is a war, how we can avoid losing a war and how we can win that war. And I think that anybody who looks at the news today can see that this is exactly the kind of book that we need right now. And the crucial thing to remember is that human beings, human brains are built, every human brain is built to survive and hopefully win a conflict.

And there's not one simple reason why that's the case. There are many reasons. So if you travel through the brain, you start down at the base of the brain of the brain, and you travel all the way through to the frontal pole, the bit just behind your forehead, which is the most sophisticated part of the brain, the most human part of the brain. Every single part of the brain drives us towards conflict. Fear, for example. Fear is useful. We need fear. If you don't have fear, if you lose the parts of the brain that are involved in generating fear, you don't become a fearless criminal. You can become a victim of crime, right? We need fear, and yet fear can drive us towards conflict. Misperceptions and misunderstandings can spiral and lead to war. And that's a function of just how our perceptual systems in our brain work. We have to fight against injustice, right? That can, and

drive us to great things, and yet when two groups both feel too exclusive an idea of injustice, that can drive us towards war. There are so many different things that drive us towards war. But if we can understand that, then hopefully we can reduce the chance of war happening and of war escalating. And if wars do occur, then we can win those wars. And I think the key thing is about self-knowledge. If we can know ourselves better as humans, then I'm optimistic that we can make a better and more peaceful world. We can never abolish war, but we can get closer to a more peaceful world.

Sorry, one second, Dr. Nicholas. There may have been a power outage in the studio where Drew is, so just give me one second. Ah. Be right back, guys. Just one second. All right, so sorry about that. We had a total meltdown of the system.

Dr. Wright. Let's see if we can get him back up here. Yeah, so sorry about that. Dr. Wright, you cut off me just as, you were saying, you were saying as each human brain is wired to? Oh, listen to Musak. No. Every human brain is built for conflict, right? It's built to survive and hopefully win a fight, right? And as you look through the brain, going all the way from the brain stem right to the base of the brain, all the way to the frontal

pole, a bit just behind your forehead, which is the most distinctively human part of the brain, every part of the brain, right, can drive a brain. towards conflict. So take fear as an example. Fear is useful. We need fear. People think fear is a bad thing, but we need to have fear. So if you lose the part of your brain that is involved, particularly involved in fear, which is called the amygdala, that doesn't mean you become a fearless criminal. There are people who have that and they, you know, classically become, for example, victims of crime because they can't navigate the world properly and understand and deal with threats. There are so many other things about our brain that are useful, that help us surviving, it can drive us

towards conflict. And if we can understand ourselves better, if we can understand our brains, then we can understand why we fight, and that can reduce the chances of war. And also, if we understand our brains better, if we must fight, which sometimes we must, then if we understand the brains better, then we can hopefully avoid losing and win those wars. And for those reasons, I think in our current time, you know, that self-knowledge can be vital to get us to a more peaceful world. Okay. Are we back here? Okay, sorry, we glitched it again. So now we find ourselves in a battle.

You mentioned something about being able to determine based on brain knowledge, knowledge of how the brain functions and how it's evolved, how to win a war, or at least settle a situation. Do you have any insight for the current moment, especially when we live in a time when we can't, I don't know what is real and what isn't? literally I feel like I'm sort of in, you know, in Wonderland trying to figure out, you know, is the white rabbit real or not? I mean, I think there are two separate things there. I say, first of all is how can we know what's real and what's not real? And then the second thing is, is what can we say about, you know, how we should think about what's happening in Iran at the moment. And I think just for the avoidance of doubt, there really is stuff happening in Iran. just, I'm joking, but there really is stuff happening.

So why is it so difficult for us to understand what's happening? And the reason is, in many ways, it's not remarkable that we get confused about things or lose touch with the reality, right? That's not what's remarkable. What's remarkable is that we can be linked, we can more our understanding of all to reality at all, right? So you, me, every listener out there, every viewer, right, you'll be. brain is stuck in a dark, bony vault. It's just getting information in through very limited channels.

And how is it anchoring that to reality? So take, for example, vision, right? Your vision, it looks probably like a nice, you know, sharp and colorful image all around you. But actually, only the very center of your retinas, the sensors in your eyes, actually have sensors that are good for seeing a detail and color. The rest of it is added in because what you're actually seeing is a model of the world. Your brain is giving you something far more useful than just a raw data image like a passive TV set in your brain. You're seeing a model of the world. And that model of the world gives you information that's more useful, right? Things that, things that are new, things that are potentially dangerous, things that are interesting,

things you to pay attention to. And of course, that means those things can always be exploited. Those aspects of your brainwets can always be exploited by enemies who seek you ill, right? Or seek to confuse you or so discord in society or whatever. Now, why that's the case. Hang on one second, Dr. Right. You need you to sit right there and reset this thing. Right there, right there.

Don't move. And this thing is glitching constantly and has to be reset. constantly. So, so, I need somebody there resetting this thing. Okay. He's in a remote studio today. You grab, you grab a chair now, but I didn't want you to lose it for one second because I am, I am furious about this, this technology. Okay, that's right. No worries. So finish with your point. So the point is, though, all we have is this limited, these limited, highly evolved sensory systems that are interpreting and predicting reality. They are not seeing reality. And it is easily, and it is easily, we can't know reality. We can never know the full truth. Only God's,

let's say, can know the truth. We're anchored or moored to reality, but it's only ever, you know, what we're seeing is a model of the world, right? And because of that, other people can always say discotheal, they can always try and mislead us, right? And that's been the case. So if you, you know, back at the beginning of the 20th century, there was the protocols of the elders of Zion, right, which was a bit of misinformation. During the Cold War, the Soviet Union and the CIA had enormous bureaucracies for generating misinformation. And the CIA was more restrained, but still, you know, and the British and others, you know, we were all at it. Right. This is just the way it is. Now, the difference now...

Hold on to stop you. I know where you're... I don't want to interrupt what you're building to. No, no, no, go. But the reality is that people who were under those systems of government have been literally inoculated by that experience. And so at Desjardin Insurance, we know that when you're a building contractor, your company's foundation needs to be strong. That's why our agents go the extra mile to understand your business and provide tailored solutions for all its unique needs.

You put your heart into your company. So we put our heart into making sure it's protected. Get insurance that's really big on care. Find an agent today at Dejardin.com slash business coverage. But now these more sophisticated, ever-present systems are coming in like AI, and they don't believe any of it, and they know not to believe it, while the rest of us are still in this naive state of accepting what our echo chambers are handing us. I mean, I don't necessarily think we do.

I think the fact that you and I are having this discussion indicates people don't. I remember when the internet first started and you could send someone an email saying, please send me your bank details, I need to clean your bank vault for you, and then people would send off all their bank details. I mean, nobody falls for that kind of, or very few people fall for that kind of thing now. And we know much more how these things work. And so now, will it be different in the future? So let's just talk about what's happening right now,

things are AI deepfakes and so on. I think the fact that people realize, because I've made deep fakes essentially on my computer, for my kids, it's just a fun thing to do. We can all do it. So we know these things are possible, and we know, therefore, not necessarily to believe those things. So therefore, what you need to do is to think about

how can we process information better? So why in our everyday lives are we not constantly hallucinating or constantly seeing conspiracies where they don't actually exist. The reason is that we humans have an incredible ability involving in particular a part of the brain just behind the forehead called the frontal pole. We have an amazing ability to think about our own thinking, right, to reflect and say,

is this thing that I'm seeing actually true or more likely to be true or not? And so that's a remarkable thing that we can do as humans. And really that is the best armor we have against this type of misinformation. Well, so you're asking for objective reflection, which something on shorthand these days. I mean, 30% of people, my understanding is don't even have an internal monologue, right? They have no thinking going on in terms of a voice processing thought all the time. So to get people to step outside themselves and think about what they're seeing as a

to reacting emotionally, particularly, I don't know, are you in the UK right now? I am, yeah. So in particular this country, right now, people are being told that the subjective is the ultimate measure of reality, how you're feeling is the assessment of reality, that you shouldn't trust anything but the subjective and the political. It's the opposite of what you're advocating for. I mean, I'm giving you the foundation of wisdom in ancient China, ancient, you know, almost every ancient civilization, this is it. This is the best that we have.

Are we always going to achieve it? No. Is it foolproof? No. Can we do it? Yes, as concerned citizens, we can do. And there are lots of practical ways that we can do it better. And if you are, for example, on social media. So there are obviously things that big platforms can do, right? Google can do looking at images and all the rest of it. But we as individuals, the best armor we have, the only arm we really have, is to stop and reflect and ask, you know, is this, how likely is this to be true? What type of source does this come from? And that really is, that really is the best that we have.

Yeah, you know, I don't disagree with you. I agree with you. In fact, I could not be more enthusiastic in my agreement with you. what you're seeing here is my frustration with the reality of what I'm dealing with in the world. And I was talking to my buddy Adam Carolla just yesterday about my frustration on this, forget the fact that there are these little sensory little sort of squishy onion-looking things in our fingertips that send crazy messages up our finger and are processed various at our spinal column and then sent up to our thalamus and reprocessed again and sent to our sensory core.

I mean, this is not a, when I push my finger on the table, it's not real. It's a interpretation. There we are. To embed us, it's not real. It's embeds us. It's embedded in reality, though. So it's the best version of reality that our evolutionary process can give us. But for instance, my frustration is people rely unbelievably on memory, as though it's a,

as though it's a playback of a movie. And they will defend distortions and inaccuracies that are profound rather than saying, well, I have a memory. It may or may not be accurate, but here's how I remember things. Instead, they defend it like they're looking at a movie screen as they're defending it.

But then on the other hand, that's, you know, again, that is, so again, when we're thinking about memories, and memories are vital. The reason why we have memories is to navigate the future. They're not there as some, you know, you know, verifiable, you know, precise I'm understanding of the past. They're there to be helpful to help us navigate the future. Help us help us survive.

It's all to help us survive. Not to give us reality or the truth. Well, the thing is, though, that if it's not anchored to reality, if it's not moored to reality in some way, like, for example, if my model, my perceptual model of the world in terms of what I'm seeing, right, is not very good. Then I'm simply going to bump into tables and things. Right.

That's the reality. Now, we get far faster feedback going to bumping into tables for things like our visual system, right? But it's the same thing with our memories. So if we're really not remembering things correctly, then eventually that will cause problems. If we're really not more to reality and our understanding, for example, of how the world works more broadly in terms of politics, economics, family, whatever it might be, whatever aspects I were talking about, If we're not moored to reality in a useful enough way, then those models will also come a cropper. You know what it is? You know what's bothering me? It is an irrational certitude that people have.

I mean, the reason we have the scientific method is we're trying to query reality beyond what our evolutionary systems can provide to us. We're trying to understand reality by intruding in it with these. instrument we call the scientific method. Because our evolutionary systems only go so far. We can't see quarks. We can't see the strong forces. We can't see electromagnetics. We can't see anything.

We see light. We have no idea what it is. But we query reality with these careful, delicate mechanisms that we use inaccurately, by the way. And so that helps us continue to build this concept of what is real and what, you know, is not. So back to how people are manipulated. So do we have, other than being reflective and using this very powerful system in the front of our head, are there other ways that people can not be brainwashed, not be manipulated by AI? What's your recommendations?

Other than loud soon, other than confucius. And just to say, but I think the key thing there is that we can enhance that in ourselves. So, for example, if we take a third person perspective, if we keep the people around us who are questioning us, if we, you know, there are lots of practical ways that we can enhance our thinking about our own thinking. But then, in addition to that, if we're then looking at these types of misinformation, so there are lots of practical things as well. So how far do you trust the sources? So, you know, it is. it is that in normal life, a lot of people over the last few years have gone away from sort of more mainstream media. On the other hand, now there is a war, who actually has the

capability for verifying these sources unless they are a large bureaucracy? Yes, and I can tell you an excellent, I can tell you an excellent scientist and an excellent neurologist clinician, just by the way you think and talk. I wish everybody was like this, but they're not. And so we have a real-time example literally in right now evolving. A, a A rumor has involved in the last minutes, the last minutes, maybe seconds, that Netanyahu has been killed or murdered or is dead as something. So this is now right now happening. What do we do?

How do we assess? And then not get upset. The very first thing to say is that for 99.99% of us, it does not matter if we find out whether this is true or not within the next five minutes, 10 minutes or 20 minutes, or 5 hours or 20 hours. right? So the first thing is it just simply doesn't matter whether this is true right now to almost all of us, right? Yep. And so therefore, the first thing to say is, is let's not, you know, get too excited about this, because there will always be these types of things going on, right? Yeah. So let's step back,

then let's look at the sources. So what are the sources here, right? Then in addition to that, let's recognize there will always be this type of misinformation. Iran is obviously quite a capable actor, but it's not a very sophisticated or capable actor, right? This is nothing compared to the type of mass personalized. You want to talk about AI? This is what we're saying now. This is basically some entrepreneurs making, you know, deep fakes for money and the Iranians doing stuff.

If there was a war between the United States and China, you are in a completely different world because they are both extremely technologically capable states. far larger than Iran, who have the ability to do mass personalization of disinformation. That's the kind of thing that we're going to see. So when this type of thing happens, like now, the first thing to say is just don't worry about it in the first instance, almost everybody. The next thing is, is what sources can you trust? And we are going to have to be much more selective, particularly if we're in a really,

a really important, great power war, not something like this, but a really big thing. then we're going to have to be much more selective about the sources of information that we choose to believe. This feels like a pretty big thing. Caleb, I want you to come in. So I guess now it's the, now the, his is how rumors get going. So now it's Netanyahu's brother, not Netanyahu. And what are the, and should we rely on these sources? Caleb, can you help me? It's, it's pretty impossible because every article that you find when you, you Google it are all just a bunch of articles that are trying, they're click-based. trying to debunk something that they already know isn't true. So every time something like this a rumor starts, everyone wants to monetize it. So you're going to have thousands of these fake AI accounts

already generating. If they haven't already have them in their, just saved in the can already, these videos of airstrikes over at Netanyahu's home or something like that. It's just flooding the feeds right now, even though everyone knows this isn't true yet. So to use Dr. Wright's technique,

don't react, calm down, give it at least 24 hours to sort itself out with maybe some sources that do sound more reliable than others. And I guess realize there's something psychological embedded in what you're saying too, which is we all feel so personally connected to all these things that in the, you know, in 1945 we would have found out about two weeks later, you know, and we're finding out about before it's even happening now or as it's happening. And it makes it feel more immediate and more personal. Definitely.

And there's a big danger as well. If we get too involved with all the hurley, Berlin, I mean, it's quite exhausting. So actually, we don't want to disengage. We need to be engaged. I mean, these are important world affairs that will change the future of humanity potentially. We do need to stay at least, well, obviously, concerned citizens. We need to stay at least moderately engaged. On the other hand, one of my favorite quote is the Oscar Wild quote,

which like everything these days is probably apocryphal, but it was, you know, he said the problem with socialism is that it takes too many evenings, right? It's just it's two different. We don't have time for everything. We've only got time for a certain amount of caring about the world, and let's try and step back and think, what does success look like in caring about the world,

following events in Iran with this war now? It doesn't involve getting involved with every single rumor. Voltaire addressed the same issue by saying you must just take care of your own garden at the end of Candide. It's just to focus on the things you can change, be local, be contemplative as you're saying, and be mindful, I think, is what he's asking for us.

Now, Dr. Wright, I appreciate it. The book is called Warhead, How the Brain Shapes War and the War Shapes Brain. I look forward to reading it. And I will follow you at Nicholas D. Wright with a W, W-W-R-I-J-H-T. on X. Thank you so much, sir. Thanks very much.

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and human potential. He has spoken and taught at Stanford Graduate School of Business and the Platinum Institute of Design at Stanford. He is author of Hooked, Indistractable, and the new book, wait a minute, hooked, indestructible, and the new book Beyond Believe. There is Beyond Believe. Nero, welcome to the program. Thank you for being here.

Thanks, Dr. Drew. Great to be with you. So I've got so much I want to talk to you about. I don't know if you've heard anything I was talking Dr. Wright about. I am so consumed with concern about the way people are being manipulated, about the lack of reflection, about, about irrational certitude that people have about things that they should be skeptical about, and how AI and obviously social media is just making this all so much worse. What are your thoughts? Why is it happening? what do we do about it?

Well, I think we can take some comfort in knowing this is not a new business. That, in fact, all media seeks to monetize your eyeballs. That's what they do or your attention in some shape or form, whether it's old media like the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal or cable news. All of these formats are using your attention to make money. Now, that's not a bad thing per se. It's great that we can get so much value from these news outlets, But we have to make sure that we consume our media diet consciously as opposed to just taking a whatever is fed to us.

But I agree with you. But how do we, people aren't doing that. That's what you're saying the same thing Dr. Wright was saying. And that's what I'm so upset. I was just, you said monetize eyeballs. And that's when COVID broke out. That's exactly what I thought had happened. I thought the media had gone berserk because they had an opportunity to monetize this thing by making everybody freak out. But it's exactly. it turns out hysteria is a government, official government operation also. And I was amazed to see in a recent book I was reading about 1935 Germany that they were talking about causing hysterias, how the country was caught in a hysteria. To me, I'm disappointed. I'm demonetizing eyeballs is one thing. But causing hysterias and manipulating people for being irapeuting. rationally certain and hysterical is reprehensible to me.

You said it's not new, I believe you. Yeah, it's not new, but that doesn't mean it's not still dangerous. I think that the way we start, here's what I think we do. I don't think we hand ring and say, you know, the government should do something about this. And that's, I'm not going to do anything until the government does. Because if you hold your breath waiting for the geniuses in Washington to fix this problem, you are going to suffocate. They're the ones blowing wind into the problem. They're the ones that scare me the most.

I want them out of all this. I want them to be structurally removed from this. Never do it again. And definitely go vote. We absolutely should go vote. But what do we do in the meantime? Do we just sit here and wait for them to change things? No, that's stupid.

There is so much we can do. Here's the thing. They want you to believe there's nothing you can do about this. The best thing that ever happened to the social media industry, I think, social media specifically, was that documentary, so-called documentary, the social dilemma. Because what that movie told people and what has been repeated ad nauseum is that you are a slave. The word addiction comes from the Latin addictio, which means slave. So when we tell people social media is hijacking your brain that you can't stop, that it's addicting everyone.

It does addict some people, of course. But as you know, of course, not everybody gets addicted to everything that's addictive, right? Many people have a glass of wine with dinner. We're not all alcoholics. We have sex. We're not all sex addicts. It's not just the product. So what we should be telling him is not what stupid journalists and movies like the sort of dilemma told people that there's nothing you can do.

They handed a gift to Facebook when they let that movie call itself a documentary. It's a documentary in the same way Jaws was a documentary about sharks. They interviewed me for three hours for that movie. And did you see anything I said in that film? No. And I had the answer. I told them exactly what we should tell people to do to make sure that technology doesn't take over your life and you're not spent scrolling all day long. but they didn't include in the movie because they love the same narrative.

They are the ones addicted. The media is addicted to creating this type of hysteria. So there's nothing that we should wait for the media companies to do it. Because even if the government solves this specific challenge, you think there's not going to be yet another one that comes after it? There's always going to be something that distracts us. Because for the past 2,000 years, at least since the time of Plato, we know that people have been distracted by one thing or another.

So if they turned off social media, people wouldn't just start reading Chaucer and Shakespeare in their spare time. I hate to tell you that. They're going to go back to doing what they always did, watching sports, gossiping, doing all kinds of other silly stuff that takes up their time and attention. So we have to do about it first.

Definitely go vote. Definitely go make sure that we change our laws. But in the meantime, do what you can control, which is to become indistractable yourself. And so indistractable, the book, right, is what you gave the social dilemma people as the solution?

That's exactly right. I sat down and gave them a four-part model that anybody can use to become indistractable, and they put zero of it in the movie. It's as if you go to a doctor. And the doctor says, I'm so sorry, you have a life-threatening illness. And you say, oh, my God, that's terrible. Is there any treatment? Is there any cure?

And he says, yes, there is. But I'm not going to give it to you. So I don't want to give away too much so people don't read the book. But can you give me a hint of some of those four suggestions? No, I'll give it all the way. I wish I had more time. If I had more time, I'd give it all the way. I really, I think that anyone can do it.

If they know how to become indistractable, it's not that hard. So what we do first and foremost is we realize that only 10% of the time that you check your phone, only 10% of the time, is it because of a ping ding or ring? That's what we tend to blame. We tend to blame these external triggers for causing distraction. But studies find it's only 10% of the time. So what's the other 90%? 90% of the time that you pick up your phone.

It's not because of what's happening outside of you, because of what's happening inside of you, inside your head. These are called internal triggers. Bortem, loneliness, fatigue, uncertainty, anxiety. That is the source of 90% of our distractions. So step number one has to be master internal triggers or they will become your master. Whether it's too much news, too much booze, too much football, too much Facebook, you will always get distracted by something unless you know the root cause of the problem is trying to escape an uncomfortable emotion. That's step number one. Step number two is making time for traction.

You cannot say you got distracted if you don't know what you got distracted from. So if you show me a calendar that's blank, it's got nothing on your daily calendar. What did you get distracted from? You didn't plan to do anything, so you can't say you got distracted from anything. So you have to use what's called timeboxing, which is the most studied technique in history. It's called setting an implementation intention, which is just a fancy way of saying, planning out what you're going to do and when you're going to do it, including time for media. You want to play video games? Awesome. You want to go on social media? Terrific. Do it. But do it on your schedule,

not the social media company's schedule. The third step is to hack, is to hack back the external triggers. Those pings and dings, they only account for about 10% of our distractions, but it's so easy. I mean, the devices come built in with ways to use them less. We just have to use these tools. The external triggers we don't talk about are the old things, right? It's the boss that comes and taps you on the shoulder when you're trying to get work done. Your kids, we love them. They're amazing. We love our kids. But they can also be a distraction. So we need to systematically go through all of these external triggers.

And then finally, the fourth step is to prevent distraction with pact. A pact is a pre-commitment. It's when we decide in advance what we will do when distraction rears its ugly head. Because there is no distraction we can't overcome tomorrow if we plan for it today. So if you use these four strategies in concert, master internal triggers, make time attraction, hack back external triggers, prevent distraction with packs, anyone can become indistractable. The thing, however, that it gets left out very often, those are excellent suggestions. But in my world, the thing that gets left out of so much of the human behavior, you know,

sort of considerations in terms of making change is motivation. How do you get somebody motivated to do it? because change is hard and sustaining change is even harder. You had something called the Motivation Triangle. Does that address this issue? So that goes from one book to the other. So the indestructible is very nuts and bolts advice for people who are sick and tired of being manipulated by any form of media. And so that's what Indistractable is all about.

Beyond belief answers this deeper question, which is exactly the one you raised. I know what to do, but why don't I? just do it. And we've all seen this problem. And this occurs because we don't understand motivation. We think of motivation is a straight line, okay, that if I want a benefit, I do a behavior. Very simple. But if it was that easy, we'd all have six-pack abs and be multimillionaires. There's something missing. What's missing is that motivation is not a straight line. It's a triangle. That I can know exactly what I want to do, know the behavior. I can know exactly why I want to do it, the benefit.

but if I don't have the belief, it will not sustain my motivation. Let me give an example. Let's say I have a boss and I don't believe that my boss has my best interest at heart. Maybe I don't believe they're going to give me that promotion. I don't believe they're going to give me that raise. Well, am I going to do my best work for that boss? Am I going to stay motivated? No, I'm going to slack off because I don't believe I'm going to get the benefit.

Conversely, if I don't believe in my own ability to do the behavior, I'm too old, this is hard, I'm no good at this, whatever you, hear these limiting beliefs all day long that are whispered in our psyche, if I don't believe I can do the behavior, well, then I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to sustain my motivation either. So for motivation to sustain itself, which turns out studies find is the most important trade of who meets their goal. It's not the smartest person. It's not the person who has the most resources per se. It's not the most skilled person. It's simply the person who can sustain their motivation and persevere the longest.

I just though I'm always reminded of the famous marshmallow experiment with the grammar school age kids where they're left in a room with marshmallows and told you know don't eat essentially I forget the exact set up but don't eat them and the kids just as soon as the adult left the room put the marshmallow in their mouth except certain ones didn't they were able to delay that gratification and when they studied those kids later guess who was the most successful kids the ones that could delay gratification. So this whole phenomenon of how humans relate to their motivational system, I agree with you.

But if somebody doesn't believe or trust or have a positive concept about the future or the person who's asking them to do the task, getting them to delay gratification is something is hard. And we have to teach people to do it when they're young. And we're not doing that. I couldn't agree more. But we have to first understand that these beliefs are here. You see, these limiting beliefs, they're like your face.

We all have a face. We can see other people's faces, right? If I told you, tell me somebody else's limiting belief. So I said, you know, tell me one of your best friends limiting beliefs or family members limiting beliefs. Oh, I can tell you all the things that they don't do well. But when it comes to our own limiting beliefs, it's like saying, look at your face. You can't look at your face.

The same way you can't look at my hand. I can't look at my own face unless I use a mirror. I have to use a mirror in order to reflect. And so that's exactly why we have to use a process. to uncover these limiting beliefs, understand what they are. Because to us, they feel like facts. They're not facts. Facts are objective truths.

Beliefs are convictions that can be revised. They can change based on evidence. And so that's what makes them so special. Beliefs are tools, not truth, because they can change. That's good. I love that. Beliefs are tools, not truth, because I was talking about to write earlier about how people defend the, they have irrational certitude about flimsy ideas, flimsy beliefs.

somebody sent me a video with you about the top 1% trained their minds like this what is that what were you talking about I didn't he watched the video yet but I immediately became intrigued the top 1% it's mastered this mindset now the top 1% trained their minds like this what were you talking about there I don't know it might have been a while like I'm sure I'm imagining it must have been some some mastery sort of top one percent. It's probably about this. It's probably about improving motivation states.

We do see that there's a common trait that people who are successful in many ways are losers. What do I mean by that? That we think that people who are successful are the ones who win all the time, that they're lucky. Turns out it's not true. They're the ones that lose more. That if you talk to really successful people, they will tell you about. all the times I tried this, it didn't work, I tried this, it didn't work, I tried this, it didn't work, they lose more. Whereas people who are not successful, they try once, they say, no, I already

tried it, didn't work. And then they install this limiting belief that served them at some time, that protected them at some point. And yet, they keep coming back to that limiting belief and they never push back their original constraints. What we found is, you might be familiar with this work, but we used to believe that there was such a thing as called learned helplessness. and we learn helplessness. This was proposed by Seligman and Meyer, and everybody in this psychology community believe that this was gospel, right?

That we learn helplessness. It explains all kinds of socioeconomic conditions. A few years ago, didn't get much attention. A few years ago, Seligman and Meyer looked at the data again and completely changed their minds. They not only did they get it wrong, they got it 180 degrees wrong,

completely the opposite conclusion. Turns out we do not learn helplessness. helplessness is our default. We always want to retreat into passivity because passivity is safe. It worked for me in the past. It'll work for me in the future. What we have to learn is agency. We have to learn hope.

I mean, the, you know, the essentially what the learned helplessness came from an experiment on dogs where the dog would get electrified on one plate and they'd move over to the other, get relief. And pretty soon they couldn't find a safe place and they just shut down. And so really, you're right. It's not learned helplessness. It's biological shutdown. It's parasympathetic shutdown, which is a survival mechanism that the brain goes to when destruction is imminent, when there's no way out.

And that is not. And what do we train warriors to do? Don't do that. Always keep fighting. Don't give into this biological mechanism that's in us. But here's what the original study didn't have in it that Seligman and Meyer revealed only two years ago. that some dogs in the experiment never quit. And they excluded those dogs from the data.

So the dogs that didn't quit, why didn't they quit? They didn't quit because they had some kind of previous experience, we think, that taught them that there was always hope. They had some kind of option of never quitting, always persisting. And that's what we need to learn from this model. There's another beautiful experiment.

I don't know if I have time here. Do I have time to share one cool? But you've really you've really enlightened me on something here because I think about how police people are taught, how the military has thought, never give up, never give up, never give up, never give up, never give up. I would just keep fighting. And that is to fight that biological mechanism of shutdown that we have, that we share with lizards.

It's our lowest impulse. It's our lowest quality neurobiologically. But go ahead. Tell me this other experiment. That's perfect. No, that's absolutely right. So you know, but the Kurt Richter study with the rats, this one blew my mind. So in this study.

Keep going. Yeah. I know a few of those. Back to 1950s, Kurt Richter had a very simple question. How long could a rat swim in water? Pretty simple. So he sat there with a stopwatch and he timed how long the rat could swim for. Swam, swam, swam, 15 minutes.

The rat didn't exhaust itself. It just gave up. So now we wanted to see could he extend the time that the rat could swim for. So he took a new group of rats, put them in this glasses. cylinder, waited till they swam for about 15 minutes, and then at the 15 minute mark, takes his hand in, flucks out the rat, dries it off, let it catch its breath, and then plunk back into the cylinder it goes. He does this a few times to condition the rat. Turns out the rat can now swim longer, how much longer? He went from 15 minutes. Most people

think, okay, twice as long, three times as long. Wouldn't that be amazing if you could sustain your persistence four times longer? That'd be amazing. But the rats didn't swim four times longer. They didn't swim for 60 minutes. They swam for 60 hours, 60 hours of constant. Now, what's the lesson here? What do we take away from this? The rats could always do this. They always had it in it.

It wasn't that their physical bodies changed. It wasn't that the environment changed. Something in their minds. We can't ask the rat. The only thing that's left, only variable left. Some switch was flipped in their mind, and all of a sudden, what was in them for all along was unlocked. And that's exactly what we,

do. We limit ourselves at the 15-minute mark, and we don't realize we've got that 60 hours in us all along. Yep. Resiliency, grit, gift of failure. These are all things that, thank God, people are finally starting to talk about again. But getting them to do it is still hard because it's uncomfortable. That's the thing. It leads, it's, again, it's all about delaying. It's discomfort now, so you can manage stuff later. But the brain hates changing its mind. That's one thing I've learned, for sure. We hate changing our minds. Oh, oh yeah. Well, unless you get used to it, unless it becomes part of your practice and then it becomes exciting to change your mind. And I'm always, again, I'm always amazed when people fight change, a change of opinion. I want to change my opinion. It's expanding my

point of view. I want to challenge it. All right. Well, listen, this is, that's exactly right. I love it as well. The best if someone can give is to give you a new perspective. Absolutely. Listen, I really appreciate being here. This is, I love this stuff. And I feel like we gave some real significant nuggets in a very short period of time. So which book should we start with for you? Beyond Believe. Just start there.

Sure. Go for Beyond Believe. Just comes out today. Hot off the press. Oh, beautiful. All right, excellent. And also, we've got to follow you on X. It's near N-I-R, as last name is spelled E-Y-A-L, one word.

And near and far. It's very funny.com is your website, but it's N-I-R-N-Far. and yeah, get the book and check it out. Thank you so much for being here, Neer. Thanks, Dr. Drew. Appreciate. All right, so we are going to change gears a little bit upcoming. We're going to talk to a comedian.

It is Mark Malkoff. He has interviewed everybody in the comedy world, and he has a particular interest in Johnny Carson's career and life and who he was and what he did. and I think I saw Mark with my friend Alex Michelson, who is my former co-host, and I did a show throughout the year during COVID on a local news station.

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M. M. M. Koff is where you can follow him. M-A-A-A-N-M-A-L-K-O-F-F and Mark Malkoff.com and Carsonpodcast.com. Mark, welcome. Good to see you. True. It's good to see you. Thanks for having me. So I don't know where to start. You've interviewed everybody, right? I mean, you're really a student of comedy. I talked to over 400 people about Johnny Carson, people that went on his show. like Mel Brooks was on Johnny's first show, October, 1962.

I talked to all the musical guests. I talked to his writers, producers. If they were on Carson, they wanted to talk to me. And obviously, he was a king maker. So I definitely go deeper than anybody else has ever gone. Johnny's 30 years dominating American culture. For anyone who's younger, they don't appreciate just how, I don't say unifying, but how much ubiquity was,

you would all stay up to 1130 and the least watch his monologue. I stood in line three times, I'd say, at NBC and sat in the audience. Whoa, I'm so jealous. Was that in New York or in Burbank? It was in Burbank. It was in Burbank, and it was a big raked,

big raked sort of audience thing they had there. And the only, I don't remember, remember who the guests were, but I remember during the monologue. He does the monologue, and I'm sure, you know, you know, he had one guy that wrote the monologue every day, and they'd bring it out on these big, like, almost tables that they'd lean up in front of him. And he would come out, and he'd do the thing. I mean, it's exactly like you'd see on TV every night, except he would interact a little bit with the audience, some of the time, not all the time. And one time, The audience was very excited about him, you know, his monologue and they were applauding.

He looked up and he went, oh, shit, you guys are hot tonight. And I thought, oh, he's talking to Johnny Carson talked to us. It was very weird. It was a weird relationship with that guy. And no one had any idea who he actually was, of course. It was one of those things. The media made him out to be cold and aloof. But the thing is, Drew, I talked to his friends, people that knew him so intimately.

And they all told me the same thing, which shocked me, which is they told me. that he was almost the same person on and off camera, which I just couldn't believe, but it was a small group of people that he felt comfortable with. They all would say consistently, there was no better friend with loyalty. Now, if you cross Johnny Carson,

it wasn't going to go well. But the people I talked to, it was consistent, a little less gregarious, but they said Johnny, when he was out there was himself, and I couldn't believe that. Well, I remember we actually spoke in Johnny Carson's theater,

in, is it Nebraska or Kansas? Yes. Nebraska, yes. Lincoln. Yeah, it's huge theater. And I saw a, I remember seeing a video, like a 60-minute report of him speaking in there a day. And he just, he seems so warm and appreciative and homie, you know, when he talked to the,

to the Nebraska audience, like very, very much, like even a warmer version of the guy you saw on TV. And but there are all these stories about him. like you said, when you cross him, what was that all about? Well, I mean, he would talk about his faults on the show. He would say, I am a bad drinker. I have one drink too much. I turn into Attila the Hun.

Frank Sinatra had to save his life. There were some really bad incidents, a couple where he almost, he would have gotten killed by mob figures if Sinatra didn't intervene. But yeah, the drinking and also his being overly competitive, he was just very, very sensitive. So Joan Rivers, who he absolutely loved, who made a star in 1965, he let Miss Rivers become the permanent guest host of the Tonight Show unheard of. And then a couple years later, Barry Diller told me here in New York, the head of Fox, that he said, you have to tell Johnny you're going to get your show opposite him. Barry Dillers said, I'm in a poker game with Johnny.

He's my friend. It's Steve Martin, Chevy Chase, Carl Reiner, Neil Simon, you have, don't blindside him. Rivers' own friends said you have to. And famously, she didn't tell Johnny, and Johnny found out and was heartbroken. And it was over. He never mentioned her on the show again. She just did not exist. And that was a defense mechanism. He was very wounded that that happened.

The more astonishing to me is that that particular group hung out with Chevy Chase. How'd they put up with that? In the beginning, there was a rivalry. Chevy Chase, after eight episodes on Saturday Night Live, eight episodes in Unknown on New York Magazine, the successor to Johnny Carson. And Chevy says, you know, it would never want Johnny's gig, something like that. So there was definitely a back and forth. And Chevy wrote an apology letter in 1977 and asked if he could go on the show.

And he did. And after that, they were friends. I mean, they socialized. I was with Chevy Chase twice. And he was telling me about Carson. But in 1986, Johnny let Chevy Chase guest host the show. and Chevy had never done that. And people would think it was pretty easy to do.

And Chevy had so much problems. He told Johnny a month later, no one's going to be the next Johnny Carson. I had no idea that this was that hard. And then a couple of years later, he forgets about that and gets his own late night show on Fox the last 26 episodes. Yeah, a disaster. What got you into this? I was just really into classic TV. When I was a kid, it was always Letterman, it was Carson.

my dad got me into a mad, mad, mad, mad world. So kids in school talking about Mickey Mouse, I'm talking about Jonathan Winters. But Carson was just so likable. I mean, he was funny with kids, with animals, he was great with the promoting new talent. I mean, the comedians I talk to, they would get very emotional. Some of that tears in their eyes. And they would tell me, I have two birthdays, one, my real birthday and the second when I went on Johnny Carson. And that sadly doesn't exist anymore, but everyone from Letterman to Lino, the stories are unbelievable of what that show, the power of the, even Jimmy Buffett told me, Mark, you're the first person that has ever asked me about Johnny Carson. It was the biggest break of my career in 1981.

You're the first. So they really did want to share their stories. A little bit, Rogan has some of that magic right now, but that's the only thing that comes even close, I would say. It's really not, you people don't understand how, like, over, Like the next day you're a different person. Burn had a little while too. So doing a really good job on Stern sometimes would have a little bit of that. At least in New York City,

people would stop you on the street. But if you were on Carson and he called you up to the couch, you're going to be stopped on the street from then on. I mean, the best example that David Letterman always used as a model was Freddie Prince, 19 years old, unknown goes on Carson show,

and within six months has the number one TV show in America. And that was the power of Carson. And he loved that. I mean, he'd take an unknown Bet Midler and she's a superstar, very loyal to these people. A lot of comedians told me after the show and during breaks that Johnny would help them with their material and do punch-ups. And they were like little kids on Christmas morning.

So it was interesting to hear all those stories, which, you know, all the books were very negative. So to hear positive stories, I was very, very surprised that that, That's who they, the 400 people I talked to, that's who Johnny was to them. Now, I recently rewatch the Paul Rubens, Pee Weas himself, documentary. And one of the things that jumped out to me was a lot of things about that really affected me. But how, you said you were a sort of a, I don't know what word to put to it, you were affected by early television, classic television. And I think Paul Rubens was profoundly affected by it.

I think Pee We clearly, and he puts in the documentary, it comes out of the 50s and early 60s childhood television world, which I was exposed to. And it's interesting to me that we exposed our kids to Pee We's Playhouse, and so Pee We was very meaningful to them. We kind of shared that. But this more recent generation, he just looks weird to them. Why is that funny?

Why is that interesting? Oh, yeah. They have no... We didn't know that. That's so interesting. You know, Johnny wouldn't put Paul Rubens on because if there was somebody that was a comedian and there was any question whether this person was real or not, he wouldn't put them on. So Gilbert Godfried never was allowed to do cars and Paul Rubin's doing pee.

You know, in 19, in the late 60, 68, when Tiny Tim went on the show, Johnny was convinced there was this guy was not real. And he, after an appearance, he finally told his staff, no, this guy is. for real. And famously, in 1969 in December, 45 million people tuned into this guy's wedding on the Tonight Show second to the moon landing. So that, again, the power of Johnny. Bob Euker, who I talked to, said Johnny did not believe the first time I was on. I was a major league baseball player. He thought I was a comedian, lying and pretending that I was a ball. But they had to show Johnny baseball cards and articles afterwards for him to believe that Yucer. And if anybody was fake, he would not put them on.

So since you're an expert, one of my last questions for you about Carson is to me, as someone who was, you know, part of that era, the most memorable episode, and I saw it, my memory is I saw it in real time. Who knows what I saw a replay of it or not. But my memory is I saw it as it happened is when he gets upset because Rickles has broken his cigarette holder or whatever's in front of him. And he takes the cameras and he goes down to where he's filming Sergeant whatever, TV show the last

in five minutes and confronts everybody in the studio allegedly live as they're filming. Was that real? It was planned, I think. Only people that knew what was going on

was Johnny, Johnny's director, Bobby Quinn and Aaron Rubin who was the producer of CBO Sharky, but Carson would watch the guest hosts. He'd watch people like Joe Namath

or Arnold Palmer tried to host his show. And Bob Newhart was guest hosting and Rickles was on the night before and he broke Johnny's cigarette box. And Johnny came to work and said, this has never been done, but put enough cable with the microphone in the camera. We're going to go across the hall in real time. Letterman made a career out of this later on, but it had never

been done. And Rickles, it was the first time that this guy was ever flustered in his life. And Carson interrupts the taping. They have a live studio audience across the hall, CPO, and it was TV history. I mean, Carson was the one in 1965 that put Rickles all. on TV. It was so risky that Johnny, for three minutes, had to explain to the audience. Now, you don't know this next comedian. He's going to make fun of me, but it's okay. We can laugh. We need a little bit more of that these days, it seems to me. It would be nice. Well, let's wrap this thing up. Is there anything we missed in our little romp to the course of history? I do want to mention, and you mentioned AI. I can't tell you the number of videos on YouTube and

social media, just fake Johnny Carson videos and stories. People are emailing me all across America asking if certain things are real. And it seems like 90% of the stuff that they're sending to me is fake. And even Carson is being affected not in a good way with AI. And the other thing I wanted to mention is you were talking about memories. People will swear stuff happen. We go into the book and talk about a lot of myths, what is true, what isn't true. But I had people tell me, I watch this. No, this happened. And it never did. It is one of those things people are convinced. Yeah, they had this famous moment that never happened where Zaja Gabor was on with a cat in her lap. And she said to Johnny, would you like to pet my pussy? And Johnny supposedly said, I'd love to if you get that damn cat out of the way. It never happened. Both of them said it never happened. The censors wouldn't. But I had people tell me, and there's people across America that are convinced they watched it and it didn't, what didn't happen. That's how memories work. I mean, notice how I said. I think I saw the Rickles thing in real time. I've seen it so many times.

I may be reconstructing that in my head because that's how memories work. And, of course, that's a perfect example of how people's memories work. It's such a vivid, great memory. You build the visual as you're watching. You can imagine it happening. And pretty soon you convince yourself you actually saw it happen. It's pretty easy. That's a good example of how memories.

The memories are really, I mean, people that write diaries that helps Carson had a diary when he was a kid. He actually took a memory class. he was the only person that hosted the Oscars. No cue cards, no teleprompter was all in his head. And he would edit the jokes in his head as they went. So yeah, he was, he was unlike anybody else. The fact that all the late night hosts, including Jimmy Kimmel, Colbert, they still talk about Carson to this day just shows this man's talent. Yeah, that's true. Well, listen, we thank you and thank you for all your hard work and a passion for the topic. where do you want people to go? And they shall, of course, get the book.

Oh, yeah, the book, Love Johnny Carson. You can go to Carsonpodcast.com and listen to all the episodes. I mean, we lost so many people I talked to. Larry King, Bob Saget, Louis Anderson, and they all share their Carson stories, and it's unbelievable to hear. It is history. So check that out. And please, love Johnny Carson, the definitive Carson book for a 1962 to 1992.

Carson dominated, not only late, night TV, but American culture. Thanks, Mark. Good to see you, Drew. Thank you. You as well. Take care. All right. So coming up, Autumn Smith, the founder of Paleo Bown is going to come in next Tuesday. It's a week from today. And she's going to come in with me.

We're going to do a show together. And she, of course, is somebody I admire greatly. And her products are fantastic. We have James Rosen coming. I'm looking. We have Walter Kern coming next week as well. I'm just looking at the guests here The Victory is going to

Jack, Nick Fratos, salty cracker a lot of great guests, but this week we're only doing one. I'm in Florida presently on production on health uncensored. It will be airing on what, hang a second, it'll be on Fox business coming up, I think in the fall is when it starts up. What's that, Caleb?

You're trying to say something to me. Emily says that she booked Patricia Heaton for April 7th. That's going to be awesome. Yeah, she's great. Great. She's been on fire lately, by the way. I just look forward to talking to her. So as always, our guests are great. Emily Barsh took an incredible job. And we pulled off today. Thank you for being here, all of you.

And of course, as soon as I got someone in here to babysit the computer, it worked perfectly. Anastrophe early on the show. Was there some problem that you solved, Caleb? Or it's just God helping us here? Yeah, it's just the tech guy came in. And I think he keeps refreshing it when the Starlink who's connection. No, no. He didn't have to. He didn't have to. No, Drew, here's the funny thing, Drew, is the moment that you said, oh, we got everything, we got through everything, like two seconds ago, it skipped. Yeah, okay, well, there you go. And it skips on your end sometimes that didn't skip on this end, but I'm glad we got through

this. We will do others from Florida going forward. We will be down here a bit, but do check out health uncensored. It's a really, it's the little show that could. It's getting better and better all the time. And we've got great guests and great topics we're talking about. It's really interesting. So thank you all for being here, and we will see you now next Tuesday at 2 p.m. Pacific Time. Ask Doctor Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. Emily Barsh is our content producer. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment.

This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in an immediate danger, don't call me.

Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at Dr.du.com slash help.