Ask Dr. Drew - Pre-Election Day Counter-Programming w/ Lisa Miron & Debbie Lerman (2023 Brownstone Fellow) – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 420

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

Lisa Miron is a Canadian lawyer and litigator with 24 years of legal experience and a background in environmental science. She has managed her own law firm, specializing in complex litigation including class action suits and cases against government entities. Read more at https://lawyerlisa.substack.com Debbie Lerman is a 2023 Brownstone Fellow. She has a degree in English from Harvard and is a retired science writer – and practicing artist – in Philadelphia, PA. Read more from her at https://debbielerman.substack.com • SPONSORED BY JUVENT – If you’re serious about optimizing your health and wellness — especially if you want to strengthen your bones and improve mobility — check out the JUVENT Micro-Impact Platform. Get $500 off your Juvent today by using code DREW at https://drdrew.com/juvent 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 • CAPSADYN - Get pain relief with the power of capsaicin from chili peppers – without the burning! Capsadyn's proprietary formulation for joint & muscle pain contains no NSAIDs, opioids, anesthetics, or steroids. Try it for 15% off at https://drdrew.com/capsadyn • CHECK GENETICS - Your DNA is the key to discovering the RIGHT medication for you. Escape the big pharma cycle and understand your genetic medication blueprint with pharmacogenetic testing. Save $200 with code DRDREW at https://drdrew.com/check • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

and welcome everyone we are going to have two interesting guests today as we often do uh first of all lisa maran she's a canadian lawyer who has uh been a litigator for 25 years owns her own firm been uh filing against the government and class action for quite some time and we're going to talk amongst other things a little bit about the coordinated efforts amongst governments that seem to be aligned against us. And then our friend Debbie Lariman is going to join us. She's a 2023 Brownstone Fellow, a degree in English from Harvard, retired science writer. And she has been crawling down rabbit holes. And much to her amazement, even she is astonished by what she is finding.

So she's going to bring us some of those findings. And, of course, we have a lot of great guests coming up, which I'll review with you after this break. Our laws as it pertains to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f***'s sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin, ridiculous. I'm a doctor for. Where the hell do you think I learned that?

I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. You have trouble, you can't stop,

and you want help stopping, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop, and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. Joint and muscle pains are exhausting and frustrating, but I've got an over-the-counter medication I want to introduce you to that provides great relief using the power of, check it out, chili peppers. Capsodin is made with a proprietary formula that contains no non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents, no opioids, no anesthetic or steroid, nothing, no chance for addiction, no side effects, no chance it's going to interact with other medication you might be taking.

Capsodin contains capsaicin, which is the substance in chili peppers that burns your tongue. It gives you that burny feeling. And of course, I've recommended capsaicin creams to patients over the years, but other capsaicin creams burn your skin. That's what makes Capsodin so unique. In clinical trials, Capsodin has actually been demonstrated not to burn. I've been using Capsodin to relieve my pain in my hands and my wrist from carpal tunnel

syndrome and arthritis. The results have been amazing. I use it every day during my show, and I highly recommend it. Get the pain relief you need from various sources, even back aches, sprains, bruises even. Order now at capsodent.com slash drew to get a 15% discount plus free shipping. That is C-A-P-S-A-D-Y-N capsidon.com slash D-R-E-W. And as I said, Debbie Lariman will be here in just a minute. I was with her over the weekend in Pittsburgh at the Brownstone event. And let's review upcoming guests here. Kayla, if you don't mind, you have Jillian Michaels coming by tomorrow to talk about food sourcing

and all the things that she's been doing such a great job highlighting. I don't know if she may be coming in studio. Susan, have you heard whether or not she is going to come Zoom or in studio? I'm not sure the answer to that. Jury's out. Jury's out.

Salty Cracker, early show on the 7th, and then Friday you can join us with jimmy door we have an event in i think studio city uh rumble time with jimmy door i bet judging by the name it'll be available on rumble it's friday at six o'clock there it is right november 8th at uh doesn't say what time november 8th streaming live oh i'm only looking at the streaming, so I have to. I think it's like 7 o'clock Pacific. J.M. Adacharia coming back around. So if you're not in the local area of Los Angeles,

you can watch it online. Tyler Fisher, who got in trouble for making a joke about one of his flight attendants. He'll tell us about that. Remy Adeleke coming back on the 14th. And then Lara Logan on the 19th. I know Emily's working hard to get her in here so uh today cracks me up what's that is these big names they say oh I'm having a you know a show and it's going to be streaming live and we're going to be tonight everything and I call them and I'm like where

you don't have a link to where we're supposed to go like Guys, make a link. So Rubin Report tonight, I'll be on that at like 6.30 Pacific. YouTube and Rumble. 9.30 Eastern on YouTube and Rumble. At the Rubin Report on YouTube and Rumble. I just found out. And I'm joining Mark Ribeiro at 6 o'clock. So it'll be an interesting evening.

We'll see how it goes. I happily am hiding away from all that stuff. And I must tell you, it's a much healthier way to go through life. So Lisa Marone, you can follow her at lawyerlisa.substack.com. And she, as I said, is a lawyer with a quarter century of experience, been a litigator. Lisa, welcome to the program. I'm so happy to be here, everybody. So I'm an expert on all things globalism these days, and that's what I'm here to talk about.

So thanks for having me. That's what I wanted to get into, the World Health Organization and all these seemingly coordinated kinds of messaging and execution of so-called treaties. What is going on and what are you doing about it? Well, what we have, the real tension in the world right now, and I don't know if it's really simple to break down, it's globalism versus nationalism, right? Open borders, globalism, right? Pandemic, global government.

Climate issues, go to the UN. And so if you realize that everything right now is all about globalism, you really have to do some digging. When I looked at the pandemic back in, you know, four years ago, I thought Health Canada was an acting like Health Canada, like it had the flag, but it didn't mean anything. And so I thought, you know, this seems like a satellite office of the WHO. So I decided I was going to find the proof. And what I ended up finding was a thing called the NFP. And it's got to be the new, you know, three-letter acronym that everybody learns. It's the national focal point. And back in 2005, there were international health regulations by the WHO that set down a requirement, legal requirement, that every country across the entire 196 countries that had signed on to this thing have a national focal point. And lo and behold, I could not find Canada's national focal point. I found it on an obscure pharma site

and its office was in Washington, D.C. I found actually every single satellite office of the WHO across the world. And so it listed a health portfolio. And I was just astounded. In fact, I found that Public Health Agency of Canada is a satellite office of the WHO. And Health Canada is a satellite office of the WHO. And then we have the Patented Price Review Board. So how much are you paying for those vaccines? Satellite office of the who. So it all came to look very closely like a big racketeering effort. And the big one for you guys today, Dr. Drew, is that I found that the NFP or the national focal point for the US was the CDC. So, you know, you just let that sit there. It's, you know, how many people would take what the CDC has on offer when you think it's an independent U.S. agency, right, and is really esteemed? And how, what's the subset of people that would take the advice of the CDC when it's the WHO. So both the U.S. and

Canadian, and in fact, every Pan-American country is run out of their NFPs are run out of an organization called the Pan-American Health Organization. And that's situated in Washington, D.C. So now when you look back at that pandemic, you know that the entire time that the CDC is making pronouncements or public health, they're not an independent assessment. They were the operating arm of the WHO. And so then we're going to go into, you know, another rodeo possibly. And when we go into that rodeo, I think I'd love it if we pushed that information out there, that the WHO and the CDC have too close of a relationship. They didn't disclose it. They didn't come out and be transparent about it. I had to go hunt it down. The freedom lawyers in Canada

had no idea. So what are the chances the average member of the public knew that the CDC was the operating arm of the WHO? And then like the conflict of interest, the WHO now has 85 to 89% voluntary contributions from organizations like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation or the Rockefeller Foundation. And so then you kind of get, well, how much influence does the WHO have because of its funding? And then how much influence does that parlay into our governments? So that's a big thing.

And I just wanted your reaction. Lisa, not to interrupt, but yeah, more importantly, what do we do about this? Again, you framed it as globalism versus nationalism, but I see it as something even a little more pernicious, which is centralized authority versus decentralized authority. And centralized authority of any kind, open any history book and you see what happens. Just pick a page, read about centralizing of authority. It is not a pretty picture. So what do we do about all this?

I think right now it's a matter of bringing the awareness to the public because then they need to be a disregarded, completely defunct organization. Any organization that hides its connections and is no longer acting bona fide for the people, you've got to say they shouldn't be making policies that our people, whether we're Canadian, American, or anywhere around the world, have to pay attention to. So I would like to give you my links, every NFP office around the world. And in the U.S., the other item that was,

the other agency that was listed was foreign assistance. And I let that drop there because lots of money flows through foreign assistance. We're talking billions of American dollars. Is there a way to reclaim those monies? Is there a way to trace them? You know, these monies that are moving through foreign assistance as a satellite office of the WHO, right? How is it that this international organization gets to write checks? Do they, you know, send a bill over to Nancy Pelosi and then Congress

disapproves it? What's that relationship? How does the money work? How does the WHO say to foreign assistance that they want, you know, control over the pocketbooks. There's no clarity. I think there needs to be a massive investigation into this, and it shows the absolute corruption of these globalist agencies in our countries. I think we're at the point of a possible globalist coup to the extent in Canada we're looking at a bill right now, Bill C-293, and it creates a pandemic preparedness that is a perpetual emergency act, you know, with no threshold to go in.

And it hands the power to the two satellite offices of the WHO. So we're looking at NFPs or national focal points in every country we're looking that they've been there for about 20 years drilling into our uh countries they now look like they have our pocketbooks and then they're actually trying to seize more power through pandemic prevention and One Health. What is going on? I mean, as you run into people that are advocating on behalf of this extraordinary centralization of authority, what do they think they're doing? Is this a money grab? Is this delusion? Is this just going along to get along and they've just sort of become ideologically blunted in their view of the world? What do you run into?

I think what is really happening is that they've been so efficient and slow and methodical about getting into our governments, that they're just doing the hiring policies. This is a very deep administrative state. If you look at, you know, what's being taught at schools, it's, if you're looking to get hired for government, you're actually taught the same principles. And so I think what they're doing is they're hiring the people. They're just hiring the people in the end. And therefore, those people have a reporting structure that they're just following all the way up the top to this WHO arm. Wait a minute. I want to make sure I'm understanding. By the way, if anybody worries that I'm interrupting, poor Lisa, we have a delay here.

So in order for one of us to speak, the other must interrupt. But the idea, I think what you're saying is that we are so encumbered with bureaucracy that the bureaucracy itself has become this organism that is fueled by the supply in the education system. And it's just this organism that is rampaging across national boundaries and building itself

and just growing as bureaucracies tend to grow. They tend to grow. And I think we're also hamstringing who can speak up against it. A good portion of people are either now working in DEI, right, diversity, equity, and inclusion. And so, you know, are they going to speak up against the globalism? You know, those are the globalist values, right? They're not the national values. Then we're hiring everybody in climate and ESG. And again, you know, their bread and butter is to actually push forth, you know, these solar or whatever agendas.

And then the last one here is the pandemic. If you hire people, so many people in our governments for these three key globalist areas, then what we're going to end up is all those people, it's in their interest financially that those areas continue. And so we're almost through our own tax dollars, right, setting up the necessary conditions to defunct our own nations we're hiring people who whose job uh really has to be loyal to the globalist values and so that's very clever and crafty of the globalists they're using our own tax dollars you know to get rid of our own

get rid of our nations and i think that's what's on. I'm looking at a new post today and I'm investigating the, how many employees are in Public Health Canada? And I haven't been able to get to the end of it. It's like a parallel government structure. They have intelligence services, they have stakeholder engagement units, they have units that they don't even tell you what the acronyms mean, and they go on for miles. Wow. Wow. And I'm thinking back to the pushback on the so-called treaty, the One Health Initiative. And raising public awareness didn't do that much. It wasn't until states in this country stepped up legislatively and said, we will not sign this thing. And then that got the attention of the federal government and some representatives there said the same, making it impossible for it to pass here. And then, of course, the World Health Organization just went to work finding some other way to put in place the same policies and procedures that were in the One Health initiative, just not through a sort of treaty mechanism.

So it's two things seem to me to be afoot here that we need to really understand and address. A, what can we do beyond awareness? Because awareness doesn't go very far anymore. It's two things seem to me to be afoot here that we need to really understand and address. A, what can we do beyond awareness? Because awareness doesn't go very far anymore. And secondly, how do we prevent them from going ahead anyway with their agendas? Well, some legal actions might need to take place. Now, there's two components on the WHO. There was the WHO Pandemic Treaty, and then there were the International Health Regulation Amendments. Well, those International Health Regulation Amendments, which devolve sovereignty, you know, and you can say this is just taxation without representation, right? No matter what, whatever they say in those amendments, they are so significantly entering our public service as to materially be altering what our nations are.

And so if they're Biden's amendments, you know, there's got to be some Republican lawyers out there who wonder whether or not that would have been treason to have actually put forth something that would devolve sovereignty. So there's that possibility. Then when you look at the WHO treaty itself, there's this concept, and it's really apparent in one of our bills. And, you know, just take AI, go through the U.S. bills, and look for One Health. And One Health is a totalitarianism. So it's not only communism, it's totalitarianism. It's multi-sectoral. Is that C-29-293? C-293? Is that that bill? That's that bill, C-293. And right in its preamble and throughout the bill, mentioned twice, everything has to work with one health and they define it as

multi-sectoral any sector multi-disciplinary any discipline that focuses on like dr drew they do not know what focus means because then it has to focus on animal plant human ecosystem health so everything in god's green earth and the welfare interface right so that's everything you conceive of what what part of government isn't in in that like in the natural or unnatural world that's basically the breakdown and in our bill it says they're going to govern canadian activities at home and abroad so everywhere so. So it's, you know, the globalists are putting in domestications of that WHO pandemic treaty. And I think the analysis has to be constitutionally that no matter what constitution you have, as long as it's democracy, if you invert it

and it's communism, or if you invert it and it's totalitarianism, it really takes away the purpose of the state itself. Like it so morphs what it is that your state is, United States, or in my case, Canada. It so morphs it. Once we have top-down totalitarian rule, we're talking about a totally different kind of system. And I don't think people really understand what we're facing. Yeah. And again, I get it. We've heard these sorts of stories here.

And I'm just constantly trying to figure out now what we do about it. And it feels like the ballot box has not been quite a satisfactory way to respond. And the legal system is starting to get sort of geared up to manage it. And it feels like that's much more effective in that ultimately it's hitting people in the pocketbook, it's scaring people, while the sort of shenanigans that go on politically on the legislative level just doesn't seem to be taking this seriously. Yeah, you know, and I've seen, you know, omnibus bills landing very late in the game, you know, in front of the House. How can they read it?

They're massive, massive bills. What's in them? It's not debated right so there's no legislative magnitude to what all these changes that are occurring so it's not like the legislation the legislature is really doing considered approaches um so it's not it's it's not surprising to me that some of these bills are falling far, you know, they affront our constitution either in Canada or in the US because they're slipping in. is being labeled the Vegan Act because it so restricts animal meat and animal agriculture and increases artificial proteins to prevent a pandemic. So, you know, can you imagine that's how we're preventing pandemics?

It has expropriation of land to, you know, prevent a pandemic. So I think we're looking at the next rodeo being quite oppressive. And the first thing we have to do is demystify what's going on. So most legislatures can learn of the dangers of the bills that are passing and the danger of the WHO public health system. What is a national focal point? What are they doing in our countries? We have to demystify that for them because the average person just doesn't know it. And we have to bring that to the people so that they demand it. In Canada, people are upset about Bill C-293.

I've been the voice to take that information. They are upset. And we're having a real huge grassroots movement in Canada about it. I'm so glad. And I'd love to see the same thing happen in the U.S. Well, again, you say very calmly, the next rodeo is going to be much more oppressive. I mean, that is, I mean, to our ears down here, it's like, what?

How is that possible? Something's got to change. But, well, listen, I guess the least we can do is read your Substack. And so I would recommend that. And you can get all articles about all these topics. The Substack address is lawyerlisa, easy,.substack.com. Lisa, is there anywhere else you want people to follow you? That's it.

So simple. That's where I'm at. Everyone says I should go on Twitter, so probably I should. Yeah, probably should because you want to get the word out, as you say. We want to get more people aware of what's going on. And you say these things very calmly, but they strike the ear with great anxiety and alarm. We have about 19,000 people watching on Twitter right now, Debbie. Maybe you should get a Twitter. Exactly. Yeah, I think I should. On this election day, maybe people-

I mean, Lisa, sorry. Maybe people pay attention to these winds that are afoot. Let me just put a little coda on this and just say, just study your history, everybody. It started with the Jacobins. They modeled themselves after the Romans a bit. But the centralization of authority ends in catastrophe for citizens. I can't think of one situation where that is not the case. Maybe China is an example of where it's not so bad, but they had to kill 20 million people to get there. So it never happens without killing millions of people in the name of doing what's

right and good, which is, of course, never what's going on. People, the most efficient form of human interaction is local and family and one doctor taking care of one patient. As soon as you move above that, you are creating problems. You're creating distortions and priorities and ethics. You're creating motivational changes and you are ruining you are ruining what is essential in the human experience i'll let you give me last thoughts i i think if people take this out in bite-sized chunks right and reimagine that i know it's the election day but your power your personal power is not casting a vote.

And politics is not casting a vote. Politics is talking to your neighbor. And the cure to globalism is localism. It's your community. It's doing, again, the function of the community. And so that's why it's so powerful to see in Canada, the pushback on bill C-293, because people are going door to door. They're meeting their,

their neighbors and they're talking about it. I went into a restaurant with my son and he came out and he says, mommy, they're talking about bill C-293 and about this really smart lady. And I thought, Oh, that's me. Nice.

And maybe it's, maybe it's time for Republican clubs again or something like that. I don't mean by Republican with a, I mean with a Republic clubs, you know, that Republics are restored in their functioning. Not Republican as a political party, but Republicanism as a way of supporting governments as they were designed. But Lisa, thank you so much for joining us. We'll watch your Substack and hope to talk to you again soon. Okay, wonderful. Thank you, everybody. Bye.

You bet. So I looked up her Substack because somebody was having a problem. You can also go to substack.com slash at lawyerlisa. Okay. So that's another way to get there. Very good. I'm not sure if the other one worked. All right. Debbie that's another way to get there. Very good. I'm not sure if the other one works. All right, Debbie Lehrman, a Brownstone fellow.

I spent a little time with her over this weekend. She is a journalist, I believe by training. I believe that's right. And she was describing how she climbed down some rabbit holes and even she is, I'll let her describe it to you. And the COVID insanity as she put it caused her to pretty much

lose faith in every institution we used to trust and I think that happened to a lot of us Kat Timf on Gutfeld said the other day she goes you know some of us haven't gotten over COVID

she probably said that two months ago and I've been repeating that over and over again because I thought oh yeah I got over COVID the virus I haven't gotten over COVID response,

what our government did and what it has revealed. The trauma. And what it has revealed about what's been going on. And lawyer Lisa's one little piece of that revelation. The excessive centralization and that should alarm everybody. I, of course, it jumped out at me when I saw how medicine had been centralized and what that did to the practice of medicine during the COVID debacle, so-called.

Debbie Lehrman, L-E-R-M-A-N. You can see her substack at debbielehrman.substack.com. Debbie is D-E-B-B-I-E. We'll be right back with Debbie and her observations after this. The wellness company knows that taking charge of your family's health care is a top priority, and that is why they are constantly innovating to deliver the products and services to help you be rationally ready for an emergency. They've added a medical kit for kids to treat over 20 childhood illnesses, nausea, vomiting, allergies, asthma,

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That is J-U-V-E-N-T dot com slash drew. Code drew for $500 off and start your journey to better health and a longer life and wellness, longer wellness, which I'm all about. All right, now let's bring in my friend Debbie Lerman, who I spent the weekend with here at the Brownstone Institute in Pittsburgh. Sasha Lodoprovich brought her stuff up with us when she was here most recently. Debbie, welcome. Hi, thanks, Dr. Drew. I'm so excited to be here. So tell us how you, you were sort of alluding to me at the Brownstone, what happened to you because of COVID sort of exposing the excesses that it did to so many of us and that you started

climbing down various rabbit holes and are still down there, I think. Tell me about that experience and why you were suited for that. I don't know if I was suited for that. I kind of feel like the circumstances chose me because when COVID happened in March 2020, when the response started, the lockdowns and stuff, I was lucky enough to be someone who doesn't get too panicky about things. And also because of my background as a medical writer, I'm familiar. I'm not afraid to read medical documents, studies, and statistics. And in addition to that, my husband is a doctor, so he's a good reference for me. So when everything started, I just started looking at the scientific literature and the numbers. I'm not on social media, and I don't watch any news.

So I get my news. I used to get my news from the New York Times and NPR, and now I get it from Substack and other alternatives. Are you going on X these days, or where are you going? Substack's and X going over there, because we have many, many of our friends on X right now watching you, so we want to shout out to the X world. Yeah, thanks.

Thank you very much. I'm really excited about that. I'm not on X. I feel like, for me, social media is counterproductive in terms of attention sucking. I also think it's not necessarily a constructive way to have dialogue, but I completely appreciate the reach and the audience. So I was not going on that. You've got to get on there and see if it's changed.

You've got to get on there since maybe it's changed since you were last on there. So there we go. So you were reading first source material and what happened? First source material. And so it was clear from the very beginning that there was no big emergency and that everything that was happening was wrong,

medically and scientifically, and in terms of public health. Because the first rule of public health is calm people down. That just makes sense. That's the absolute first rule in any person in public health before COVID will have told you that. Now only the ethical people will tell you that.

So first you calm people down, then you figure out what's going on and then you find the least disruptive way to deal with the outbreak. And as we know, none of those things were done. Not just disruptive. Right. Not just least disruptive, but also don't let go of risk-reward considerations and your primary ethical injunction, which is do no harm. Do no harm. Yes. correct.

And so, unfortunately, what happened was mass panic. And I realized pretty quickly, because I was listening to the NPR and reading the New York Times, that the media was playing a very large role in that and that was very scary to me uh because sources that i had relied on to be uh neutral and to be you know to do their research and to be scientifically reliable were not no uh and then the other thing that scared me a lot was that all my friends and family were panicking and not just panicking, but losing their minds, you know, as far as I was concerned, in terms of accepting every edict that came down, not questioning anything, like the masks and the social distancing and the lockdowns and later the vaccine mandates. And when I tried to question these things, because I used to be a very liberal Democrat type, the answers that I would get, which would be maybe more than anything, would be, I would say, can you believe these mask mandates? You know that in medical school, my husband in his first year learned that masks don't

help against respiratory viruses. And they would say to me, are you a Trumpist? So they were responding to my medical and scientific questioning with some kind of political rejoinder. And having known me all my life and knowing that I was a liberal Democrat, they were asking me absurd questions that also had nothing to do with the situation. And so that's what really sent me into a tailspin. And so for a while, I just was following the numbers and following a few scientists online and looking at studies. And eventually that led me to the Great Barrington Declaration and to Brownstone, which is one of the only platforms where people could publish true information about COVID.

And then I started writing for Brownstone. And that's when I started going down those rabbit holes that you mentioned. And what was that experience like? I've never asked anybody this, and I'm curious how you reconcile it. that you mentioned. And what was that experience like? I've never asked anybody this, and I'm curious how you reconcile it. I've always been such a moderate, and I've managed to kind of maintain my middle ground.

But what was that like going from one point of view to another? How did that happen? How do you reconcile that? What do you think about your previous points of view? Tell me about that. So I feel like I haven't changed my points of view at all. The only thing that I've changed is the groups that I identify with because the group I used to identify with does not share those values. So my values and my points of view are the same, which are science-based, fact-based, free speech-based, bodily autonomy-based, all the things that I've always believed in as a liberal Democrat.

But when all the liberal Democrats started believing... Yeah, let me ask the question differently. So what does it feel like that the the what's was a political philosophy has shifted so profoundly what do you make of that it's extremely disorienting and uh for me it was very uh destabilizing in my life i really felt like I was losing my mind. And so, but as I found a new community of people coming from all sides of the political spectrum who really were just trying to find the truth, I felt, you know, that's what's been supporting me and sustaining me and trying to reach people on all sides and try to get the truth out.

Because the other thing that was extremely frightening and still is, is the level of propaganda and censorship that we are being subjected to, which is very coordinated. So tell us about what you discovered about that. That's a good place to start. Because in my journey through covid that was the thing that was the most disturbing was the the ridiculous opinions of the press and that people were listening to the press to form medical opinion it just was so bizarre to me uh and the you know the people who just learned how to pronounce the name of a medication two minutes later have a profound

sense of where it should be used and how like who who are you why are we even why you know like just take ivermectin for instance i mean it it should have been it their position should have been i've never heard of this medicine before i don't know if it's good or bad you should talk to your doctor about it i'm hearing there may be some problems and I'm also hearing that there's not good evidence for it, but how would I know? I'm a journalist. I'm a news anchor. Why would I have an opinion? And by the way, I've been using both hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin for 30 years. Maybe, yeah, probably not quite that long for ivermectin, but it's been around forever and that they just learned how to pronounce it and now know that this is not for humans

or it's dangerous or whatever their opinions are, which were totally effing wrong. This was just astonishing. Now, the part for me that I didn't know was that the government was so involved in this. That's the Twitter files and all that followed was mind-blowing to me. So the degree to which there was collusion,

I still don't fully understand. But what have you discovered about all this? So I guess I'll start with a document that I wrote about and that I think that was the article that Sasha sent to you about the government's pandemic planning. Because when I tried to figure out what was happening and why it was happening, I said, well, there must be a plan. And I wonder if they're following it,

because it sure doesn't seem like they're following a public health plan. So what is the plan? And so then I started just researching documents and looking at all the government pandemic plans starting 20, 30 years ago. And I encountered a parallel planning sort of channel, which was the biodefense planning. And biodefense is planning for a biological terror attack or for biowarfare. And what I noticed was a convergence of the biodefense planning with the public health pandemic plans, which converged in COVID. And so there is a document called the Pandemic Crisis Action Plan, PANCAP. There's a version. It gets updated every few years, and it's just what's the government going to do in the case of a pandemic.

And there's a version called the PANCAP Adapted, which is adapted for COVID. And in that action plan, which is not available anywhere, even though it is the official government, the U.S.s government's covid plan it says so at the top of the document uh the only place it's available is on the new york times servers where i think they mistakenly left it after it was leaked to them and they wrote a little article about it in march or april of 2020 But it really isn't available anywhere else and nobody knows about it. And it says, among other things, that the policy for the COVID pandemic response is set by, not by HHS, not by CDC, not by Tony Fauci. It's the National Security Council. And the National Security Council is the body that advises the president on terrorism and wars. Interestingly, if you look at the website of the National Security Council today, you will see that they have added health

security and climate security and every other kind of security to the kinds of things that the National Security Council is possibly going to deal with. But before COVID and for the entire history of the National Security Council before COVID, they were supposed to deal with wars and terrorism and national security in a military sense. So they were in charge of policy. Now, when you asked about the communications, the very interesting thing about that is that in the pandemic crisis action plan adapted, it says that even though the health and human services, which is the umbrella public health department, is supposed to be in charge of the pandemic response. Actually, they're not in go through the office of the vice president, which was where the national security was housed and the task force, the government's COVID task

force, which was, you know, the national security was a part, the national security council was a part of. So even the communications that we thought we were getting from the CDC, I mean, they were coming from the mouthpieces and the spokespeople of the CDC and the HHS and NIAID, which is Fauci, the actual policies that they were saying, like masking, social distancing, lockdowns, and all of that, was not coming from them. They did not make that up. It came from the National Security council and the task force. I know it sounds complicated and bureaucratic because that's part of the

problem. But it's extremely important to understand that the entire pandemic response policy did not come from public health agencies. And in that sense, nothing that we... At any point, yeah. At any point you find where that happened? In other words, is there some communication where all of a sudden the CDC threw up their hands and said, we can't handle this?

Or is there some communication somewhere that, hang on, that suggests that, oh my goodness, this might be a biological attack or this might be a byproduct of biological, you know, sort of whatever these things are we've been funding. Is there any of that out there anywhere that explains why it shifted? Or was it already supposed to happen like this if there was a pandemic? So in my opinion, it was all pre-planned, but because it involves classified agencies like the National Security Council, you can't FOIA them. And obviously their material is not in the public record. It's very hard to find what people would consider a smoking gun when they said,

okay, we're taking over. The pan cafe is the closest thing that I have. But there's another very interesting data point that applies to what you're asking. And that is that in January 2020, when nobody knew or cared about this except for China, and when there was some fear porn from China with people dropping down in the street, which we obviously know is fake because people never drop down dead in the street from COVID, that doesn't even happen. But aside from that, nobody was very worried and everybody around the world was saying, this is not bad. It only affects old and sick people. Everybody else will be fine.

But already back then, the meetings within the White House and within the planning sort of agencies got classified. They moved the COVID planning meetings into a room, I forget the name of it now, but it's the room that they use in case of biological, chemical, or nuclear warfare. So whatever they were talking about in January about the plans for the pandemic is classified. And then when we get the plans, they tell us that these are public health plans. And we have no idea of knowing what they were talking about back in January, 2020, which is when they obviously started, you know, rolling out the pandemic response plan. I've also found... When we move, I'll let you finish that in a second,

but when we move from one administration to the other, does this change in any way? That's a good question. To complete your sentence there. Yeah, that's a really good question. I don't know because my research all has to do with how the pandemic plan was rolled out and what happened starting when they shifted from the public health approach, which was it's okay, don't worry about it, to the panic, we have to lock everything down, We have to put on five masks and close, shut down schools for two years. In my opinion, and this is just an opinion, if Biden had come into office and said, okay, it's over, you know, whatever was happening, we've had the waves, we've had,

everybody's been, most people have been exposed. You know. We have some really good treatments that we can use. We don't need to wait for the vaccine. We can open everything up. I think he would have been a hero, and I think that that would have been the correct behavior. The fact that the Biden administration didn't just continue with the lockdowns, but doubled down on them and then enacted the vaccine mandates, which were probably the most egregious of all the pandemic response policies, tells me that they were continuing with the same plan. And that plan, by the way, I call lockdown until vaccine. So you lock everything down and you wait for the vaccine. And I interrupted you again because of our delay here. You were about to say, you know what else I found.

I want you to finish that thought. I wish I remembered my train of thought. I don't remember what I was saying. Okay, I have another question. What we've been describing, or at least you described to me, these things as rabbit holes that you've been going down. I guess I have sort of two questions. What's the most astonishing thing you found?

And what's the scariest thing you found? And they might be the same. Wow. found and what's the scariest thing you found and are those they might be the same wow um so the most astonishing and scary actually relates to what your previous guest was talking about and uh what she was talking about the globalism that she was talking about what i have found is that the response in almost every country around the world, particularly NATO countries and U.S. allies, was identical. And that is extremely frightening because in every single country, what happened was they started out saying, it's okay, it's fine, it's not a big deal, only old people and sick people get it.

Okay, that's the first thing. Then they, on a particular date in the United States, and I think very, very specifically chosen dates, they pivoted to the lockdown until vaccine plan. And that happened in every single country, almost at the same time and in the same way. And I found indications and, and I haven't done research about every country and I wish that there were

researchers in every country who would do parallel research to what I'm doing. But that bodies that were affiliated with national security took over the response in many countries just like the National Security Council. And I have to add, it was also the Department of Homeland Security because HHS was actually replaced by FEMA, which is under the Department of Homeland Security as the lead federal agency for pandemic response. So the scariest thing for me is that it wasn't just a national response. It was a global response. It was a coordinated response. And it was a non-public health response. And so what I came to was the same conclusion that Lisa came to, which is that there are global planning bodies that actually have more power than national governments. To me, that's really scary. Yeah, I agree. And so I look at that.

This is not the first time that I've been made aware of this. When that One Health thing started being carted around, that's sort of where my level of awareness skyrocketed. But I'm trying to understand what's going on here. I mean, I came away from the conversation with Lisa thinking, well, bureaucracies just grow. They look after themselves and they just grow until somebody smacks them in some way,

either just won't do business with them or takes legal action against them or whatever it is. But is there something else motivating this? just won't do business with them or takes legal action against them or whatever it is. But is there something else motivating this? I mean, certainly you have people like Bill Gates clearly signed up for all this. He's enthusiastic about it at minimum, but I'm sure he's not the only one. And are they the problem?

Or how do we make sense of all this? And I'm asking you, Lisa, non-journalist, to step back. I'm sorry, Debbie, non-journalist, to step back and say, when I ruminate and think about this stuff and I'm stuck in bed at night reviewing what I've seen, what do I imagine is going on? What is my best guess of what this really is? It's complicated complicated i actually wrote um two sub stack posts that are very long and very comprehensive about what i think is going on so i'll try to summarize um so it's everything you said uh so it's a huge bureaucracy it's bill gates and people like that, you have to envision what happened at the end of the Cold War and with the war on terror. So those two things kind of happened a little bit simultaneously.

And what happened was there wasn't any more opposition to capitalism, or if people don't like to say capitalism, you can say corporatismism because it's not like true capitalism in the ideal sense uh so global corporatism where corporations joined with global governing bodies like the un like the wef like the who um and uh NGOs and created nonprofits that just like Lisa described, once the ball got rolling and all of these things started working together and what their goal is, is to sustain themselves

and to suck resources and capital out of the world. So out of the world, so out of us, and into their sort of coffers or hands. And you can say that they're evil, and I'm sure that there are people who I would consider evil who are involved in it. There are people who have inordinate amounts of power, like Bill Gates and other multibillionaires who have more, they have more power than, you know, national governments. And if they decide that they're going to support an agenda, they can buy every academic, every major academic institution in that area, for instance, in public health. And that academic institution is now doing whatever Bill Gates

wants them to do. They're publishing the papers that he wants, and their studies are coming to the conclusions that he wants. And he can fund the WHO, and he can fund the vaccine organizations that are supposed to be giving vaccines to developing countries. And he can also fund the studies that show how great vaccines are. And he can fund the scientists. And so that's the pernicious part of it. I find it unhelpful necessarily to attribute evil motives or non-evil motives, which I'm sure exist in some people and some people they don't. But what is more scary than one person with evil motives is a huge structure that's been created on a global scale whose job it is to just sustain itself and suck resources out of the world. And as Toby Rogers, who is a popular Substacker

and also a Brownstone writer and contributor, says, once the empire, so the United States and its allies, were done colonizing the rest of the world and sucking resources out of the rest of the world and sucking resources out of the rest of the world. I guess they're still doing that. And they have new and interesting ways of doing that. They turned inward and they started,

and our bodies became the next territory that they want to conquer, which means forcing us to accept all kinds of medical interventions, also giving up our data, our medical information and our data, which is extremely important to them, which is why vaccine passports and universal digital IDs and things like that are being pushed very, very hard now all around the world. I knew you'd be into one of those big rabbit holes. There we are.

There we are. You've dragged me on in. Here we are. In a way, maybe COVID was a blessing because it revealed to us all these things that we were sort of blindly falling into. So as much as I hated it, I guess there's some jury of gratitude. But let's go down a really tiny little tributary weird rabbit hole adjacent to the one we're in. Which is, you know, we were in Brownstone and the word evil came up many different times in many different contexts. And I just want you to speculate about evil for a second because I think, I still think of evil as something that Mark Cianchese, the cognitive psychologist, calls doing what you

think is right. Evil is always done in the name of doing what's right, always, socially. Social evil is done in the name of doing good. Whenever something is done for your own good or because, Rousseau was really the first one of these guys you know man it needs to be forced to be free everywhere in chains must be forced you have to be intolerant the name of tolerance all these stupid things but it almost develops a kind of when you when you go from the banality of evil as hannah arendt says or the sort of notion that evil is done by people always thinking they're doing what's good, when you go through those rabbit holes, you do end up in sort of a scriptural world where what is being described is these very things, which I found astonishingly I was sort of

looking at recently. What do you do with all that? Yeah, that's really interesting. Because I'm not a religious person, I definitely do refer to the Bible as more of a literary and historic, not historical per se document, but a very old and meaningful document. A document of human behavior across many thousands of years.

You know, it shows us how we behave over and over again. And lo and behold, we keep doing the same thing. Shocking. I couldn't have said it better myself. That's exactly right. And that helps. It helps to know that we've been here before and we'll be here again. And as they say on Battlestar Galactica,

all of this has happened before and all of this will happen again. But when I am lying awake at night, which I often am thinking about these things, I think about what Matthias Desmet said to us at the conference, at the Brownstone conference, which is that it's about love and it's about human connection. And that's what I try to focus on when I get really, really upset about what's happening. On the other hand, like you said, I think it's very important to understand what's happening. And I think I'm very grateful that COVID happened. And I think it was possibly a mistake on the side of the globalist endeavor. Because I think a lot of people like me up, I had no idea what was going on. And it made us all more aware.

It made us all more cautious. It made us all go out like Lisa and, and try to get everybody to understand what's going on. Um, the person who has helped me to understand that the best is CJ Hopkins. Uh, I don't know if you know him. He's a, an American, um, he would be a good guest. He's an American, uh, uh, dramatist and satirist and political commentator who has been charged in Germany, which is one of the

worst perpetrators. I have heard him speak, yes. He's the one that had a Nazi image on one of his plays or something, articles. Well, he wrote a book about COVID COVID about the totalitarian nature of the COVID response in Germany.

And the cover had a medical mask with a little bit of a swastika pushing through. And so they said it was Nazi and, and, you know, and of course he was acquitted and then everybody thought it was fine, but then he was hauled in again. And then he lost on appeal, which is that it's just this monster and this sort of whose job is to self-perpetuate

itself and suck up resources and control in the world. And so it helps because you're not just focused on Fauci or Bill Gates or, you know, we can focus on those people and we can try to, I don't know, bring them to justice or something. I'm not sure if that's the best use of our resources and our attention because people tend to want to focus on who did it, who are the people, give me the names, show me the faces. And the point that CJ Hopkins makes and that I agree with is that it doesn't matter. If you took Fauci away, there would be somebody else. And if you took Bill Gates away, there are a hundred other multibillionaires

who are standing in line and who are actually colluding to do the same thing. So what we need to do is make people aware. But in addition to that, while I was listening to your conversation with Lisa, I was thinking about what's called the professional managerial class. And those are the people like me who are college educated,

who have white collar jobs, who are professors and doctors and lawyers and business people who all support the global agenda. Because as Lisa was explaining, that's where their bread is buttered. Now, if that global agenda can be shown to them in some way, and I'm not sure it's possible, but this is where I think we can possibly make some inroads to actually be harmful to them and their families. So for instance, vaccine injuries. If it can be shown that this agenda actually is not taking their best interests, does not have their best interests at heart,

and that the One Health agenda, which involves these vaccines and which involves all kinds of really crazy activities activities in terms of centralizing food production and destroying small farms and local food producers, to name just a few things, and all kinds of climate change responses that are not only ineffective but also harmful, same as the COVID response. So if people like that can be made aware of the harms of the agenda that they are supporting, that it's harmful to them personally, it has to be personal, I think, that their kid was vaccine injured in terms of DEI and in terms of gender issues, if their child, you know, was allowed to mutilate themselves, you know, as a minor without the parents knowing or over, you know, the parents' wishes. That's when I think people might either wake up or start questioning. I don't know. What do you think? I'm sitting here sort of realizing that, you know, the modern has moved away from the interpersonal and the personal and moved into

the sort of bureaucratic, structural, operational world. And I really think that's the enemy, not capital or corporate or government, the bureaucracy itself, because that's the impersonal part of all this. All three systems have bureaucracy attached to them. And bureaucracy, people just doing their, just doing their job, sound familiar, are where great evil gets done. And it's, you know, I'm thinking about Brett Weinstein and how he calls it Goliath. And in my mind, Leviathan, I kept asking Brett, why don't you call it Leviathan? It's because it feels like that, like a Leviathan

that's taking over everything. And isn't it interesting that everybody thinking and looking and now revealed this thing to us, come back to the same conclusion, which is that decentralization, less centralization, back to the community, Matthias said love, which is the interpersonal, that we've gotten so far away from that i remember the

famous book bowling alone which alerted us that something was going on that that we it dehumanizes everything and that we must must must get back to the communal it's why things like brownstone and maybe a hundred other little clubs like that are so important. Because it's what's going to change things is groups of people gathering together and sharing ideas and having a human connection. And that's why you and I are here talking today because we met there. And it's like you warned me about the rabbit holes and here we are. I'm joining you in them. And I think that's the answer. But I also think that there's going to have to be some very deliberate legal action.

Because, Susan, I want to go to you for a second, if you're listening to me. Which is that Susan was listening to the whole conference and going, what are we going to do about it? What are we going to do about it? What are we going to do about it? And unfortunately, she— Lots of great ideas and honest truth, but what's next? But I would say just us gathering

is what we're going to do about it. And then the meeting or the presentation she missed was the freedom one, I think it was, or the legal one, whatever that was. And Mr. Mendelson was going on his the legal action he was going to take i thought oh well that's the answer and then there it is he's doing it warner about it debbie warner yeah debbie is here bravely courageously yeah talking on election day 30 000 people okay which is blowing my mind right now that we have 30,000 people, maybe 34,000, 35,000, whatever.

And Elon must have retweeted us. We need to get the word out with people like Debbie who know what's going on. And it takes a village, like you said. We have to come together and love one another and make a difference. So the only thing that Drew can do is get the message out there. But I want to come together and love one another's sound so 1970s to me, which is, for me, the decade

we really got off track. So I don't want to use this, any kind of glib sloganeering. The slogans have been the problem. I just want us to stay local, decentralize. One doctor, one patient, one family, one patient, one family,

one husband, one wife, or one, two husbands, whatever, whatever your thing is. But, but stay local.

We're all, and by the way, Susan, I'm speaking on your behalf. We support everybody and all, whatever flavors you all come in. We,

we, we love you all. We're not going to, whatever, whatever. We have to get back to that and start, you know, maybe disagreeing,

but appreciating. It's fine. That's how we learn and grow. Debbie, I'll give you last words as I sort of wrap up here. I guess I want to end on an optimistic note, but am I allowed to end on a cautionary note? Well, of course, that's why you're here to take me down those rabbit holes and keep me there. So here's a rabbit hole for you to contemplate. I think the biggest obstacle to us is that not only is it the bureaucracy and the global structures, but what's supporting those global structures are the military industrial complex of the United States and United States allies. And the problem with the military industrial complex is that it operates, first of all, it takes all of our money and sucks all of our resources. It's still bureaucracy, I guess, but it's not even bureaucracy. It's not transparent bureaucracy.

And it is also engaged in all kinds of non-nefarious activities and secret activities. And the intelligence community is heavily involved in everything related to censorship. It was heavily involved in the COVID response. And so when we think about what to do, if we can't dismantle those giant bureaucracies, if you want to call them that, it's going to be really hard. But I will return to your message and Matthias' message and my message, which is local and community and love. Yep. All of it I agree with. It's interesting how everybody that looks at these things

tend to kind of come to the same conclusion. I would love to talk to somebody who thinks this is all a great idea so we could look at that and examine why they would think this kind of centralization is such a great idea. I mean, let's put some sunlight on it. And back to my comment about Brett Weinstein and Goliath.

Yes, I'm aware he likes Goliath about Brett Weinstein and Goliath. Yes, I'm aware he likes Goliath because of the David versus Goliath sort of metaphor. And we are similarly, we are like David. And all these little clubs and communities are really the little Davids that historically those have made a

difference too, by the way. Good and bad. Good and bad. Whether it was the local Soviet or the local Jacobin Club or the local communities in and around this country during the revolutionary era. So in any event, it is a, may you live in interesting times, is a curse, apologies, but we seem to be in them. I thought we were in them five or 10 years ago, but it turns out we weren't. Now we really are.

And I have faith and I have optimism that somehow the sweep of history will work itself through, or as the way GWF Hegel says, what does he call it? The spirit, the spirit of our time will, will, will progress and we'll find its way. So Debbie, great to meet you. Great to talk with you.

Appreciate you spending time with us and I will look at your debbie laramond.substack.com and read your materials there and at Brownstone. Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Drew. Good to talk to you. So Drew. Yes. So people know what, I know before you, I have to get my word in edgewise. Yes, of course. Could you explain what we did this weekend? And I want to just mention that when you say Brownstone, if you Google Brownstone, you're not just going to go to it you have to go to twitter or x at brownstone i n s t that's for institute and you can find all the links to all the all the speakers that

we were with this weekend and also they have links to i guess other sub stack people and stuff so brownstone is a brownstone.org it's easy brownstone.org. It's easy. Brownstone.org. It's real easy. Brownstone.org. We've had Jeffrey Tucker on here several times. He is someone that was an intellectual whose mind was blown by COVID. And he gathered other people who are smart to just talk with about the experience and what we think is going on. And that group keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And now it's full of the same people you see on this program. So there at the weekend-

Tell them all the people that were there. We got to meet everybody in person. Yeah, Matthias Desma, Jay Bhattacharya, Brett Weinstein, Jeffrey Tucker. We mentioned Warner Mendelsohn. Is his name right? Yeah, Mendelsohn. Bobby Ann Cox,

people that we have talked to here. There's still, you know, Jessica Rose was supposed to be there, but couldn't make it. And we met everybody and they're like, I feel like I know you. Like we're best friends or something. Well, right.

Jake Bhattacharya, he's like, I don't know, I feel. Well, Jay is, you know, again, he's still the poster child for this whole insanity. We started interviewing him in 2020. Yeah, and thank you. And I give a big shout out to Kelly Victory

for introducing us to these guys because that's what really got us. I don't think she introduced us to Jay. I think we got him another way. But anyways. But she really got us going down this path in terms of all the people, a lot of the people we met at this conference.

In any event, it's, you know, one of the conclusions was we need to just keep sharing ideas. And I- Robert Malone was ideas. Robert Malone was there. Robert Malone was there. They were the usual people that have opinions about what happened and were ready to share it. And this is a good thing. And again, as I just told Debbie, let's bring everybody out into the sunlight.

Let's see what the different thinking is and why some people think centralization is such a great idea. I'd be really interested in knowing why. But again, let me quickly go over the restream and do the Rumble Rants, see what you guys are thinking about. A lot of Maha being chanted about. Thank you, Karen Burns. We were trying.

Thank you to everybody on X for watching today. We appreciate it. Yeah, we've got a lot of people over on X. You can chat with us on our restream. Although I don't see X. We can see your, yeah. Is X on the restream? Yes.

Okay. Yes, but we've had one guy like going on, but. Where? At the rants? No, on X. It's having some issues. Like you said a couple of times. Yeah, I think it's probably because everybody's on live streams now.

Everybody's starting up and getting on social media. Because I just had like a big, I thought there was no one commenting on Rumble and then suddenly 500 comments came in. So I think it was just getting stuck. Yeah. But I put the schedule up on screen. So it's a big busy day.

It'll be interesting to see which platform can stay up through this whole thing. One of the things that Jeffrey Tucker from Brownstone did say, this was his organization, he goes, you know, it really doesn't matter what happens today. We are going to keep sharing ideas, trying to figure things out. There's a lot more work to be done. As you heard today, it was a lot about the international centralization of authorities that, I don't know, call me silly.

I don't think you want. I don't think you want that. I don't think you want to give up your autonomy and freedom. Oh, where is he? He's on X. Okay. Well, John. Hi.

Father Noggle, thank you for joining us. I said that you got me thinking about the evil topic, and maybe we should interview Father Noggle here. Oh, we definitely should have him on. That would be great. All right. So stay safe, stay well, stay positive. Everything's good.

Stay focused on what really matters, and we will see what matters to you. Join us here don't get in trouble don't drink and drive we're going to go to a completely different direction tomorrow with Jillian Michaels

Jillian you of course know her from Biggest Loser and she's been very outspoken about our food supply issues she is great on the topic has now interviewed a lot of people and we'll get her opinion about what she thinks is going on

and what we need to do about it Salty Cracker coming in on the 7th to debrief about everything that will be early at noon and then we'll be with opinion about what she thinks is going on and what we need to do about it. Salty Cracker coming in on the 7th to debrief about everything. That'll be early at noon. And then we'll be with Jim Reed-Doer in the Rumble Time with Jimmy Doerr

on the number 8th. Want to put that up again, Caleb? I think it's at 7 o'clock. I could. That's what it said. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And is it streamed?

It's on Rumble. Yeah, he has a channel on Rumble. I looked it up. There it is. The Rumble's in there. So you see the Rumble click through. And Jay Bhattacharya next week. Yeah has a channel on Rumble. I looked it up. There it is. The Rumble's in there. So you see the Rumble click through.

And Jay Bhattacharya next week. Yeah, it'll be really fun. And Laura Logan, Tyler Fisher. Roseanne's going to be there. Oh, is she going to be with me on that? Yeah. Oh my God, that's too funny. I got to get her on my show.

That is going to be fantastic. Well, okay. So you know it's going to be a colorful event. Well, we should get her back on your show too. Roseanne brings it. Yeah, she does. So that will be fun. God bless her.

So I will see you tomorrow at three o'clock, our normal time, Pacific time. See you then. Ta-ta. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder,

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