Ask Dr. Drew - Presley Gerber Dead At 27: Cindy Crawford’s Son Used Ibogaine To Treat His Addiction Before Overdose – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 668

Episode Date: September 23, 2026

Presley Gerber, the 27-year-old son of Cindy Crawford and Rande Gerber, died Sunday from a suspected overdose inside a California sober living facility. Months earlier, Gerber shared that he had traveled to Cancún, Mexico, to undergo an “ibogaine flood dose” psychedelic treatment – illegal in the USA – in hopes of overcoming chronic depression and substance dependency. Dr. Drew, an addiction medicine specialist for decades, explains what ibogaine is, why it is used to treat opioid and cocaine addiction, why it remains illegal in the United States, and the real risks involved in ibogaine treatment. Ben Bergquam, host of Law & Border on Real America’s Voice and founder of Frontline America, joins to talk about his own recovery from crack cocaine addiction and his new book, Step Into Fear: A Journey from Addiction to Courage and Purpose. Also on the show: A.J. Rice, president and CEO of Publius PR and host of the Dangerous Laughter podcast, discusses his new book, The Curse of the Bearded Lady: How the Trans Mafia Whacked American Sanity, which he says is the conclusion of his trilogy on American culture. Ben Bergquam is the host of Law & Border on Real America’s Voice and founder of Frontline America. He is the author of Step Into Fear: A Journey from Addiction to Courage and Purpose, recounting his path from addiction to faith and his reporting from the US-Mexico border and other frontline stories. Follow at https://x.com/BenBergquam  A.J. Rice is President and CEO of Publius PR, editor-in-chief of The Publius National Post, and host of the Dangerous Laughter podcast. A nationally syndicated columnist and #1 bestselling author of The White Privilege Album and The Woking Dead, his new book is The Curse of the Bearded Lady: How the Trans Mafia Whacked American Sanity. Follow at https://x.com/publiuspr 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 • BIOPRO - BioPro+® is a natural formula of growth factors and peptides that support how you look, feel & perform. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/biopro⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, the Presley Gerber story is prominent in the press these days. The tragedy of this 27-year-old son of Cindy Crawford and Randy Gerber dying Sunday from, it looks like an overdose while in treatment, which makes it even that much more tragic. He's left some videos recounting the treatment and the pharmaceutical interventions he's had. And he clearly has had decent, perhaps excellent care. He's clearly been struggling. When I listened to the video, what struck me and concerned me was that the patient seemed to be determining some of the care, and that's never good. He apparently went to a clinic in Mexico for what he called an ibogaine flood, which I've got some thoughts about. I will share that with you in mere moments.

I've had patients using Ibogaine, Ibogain or ayahuasca for decades, and there's nothing magic about it, I assure you. So we will be discussing the rally of substances as well with the host of law and border. And he is also the author of Step Into Fear, Ben Burkwam. He survived his own battle with a stimulant addiction, crack cocaine, before heading to the front lines who expose the cartel supply lines, which is extraordinary. And later on, columnist and CEO of Publius PR, best-selling author, A.J. Rice stops by to break down his new release, the curse of the bearded lady. Interesting, taking aim at the media

conformity and institutional forces transforming American culture. You can follow him at Publius PR, P-U-B-L-I-U-S-P-R and Ben is at Ben I think is underscore Burr, capital G, capital Q, UAM.

Ben, right after this. Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopaths start this right. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin, ridiculous. I'm a doctor for a second.

Where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Lovelin all the time, educate adolescents, and to prevent and to treat. Do you have trouble?

You can't stop and you want to help stop it. I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. And just quickly before we get into our show today, I want to send condolences out to Brian, Bald Brian, and his wife, his child, his parents. Ball Brian was a key ingredient in the Adam Carolla show, somebody that he worked on Lovelin years ago with me and Adam. And he was diagnosed with a brain tumor 18 years ago that at that time

had a six-month prognosis, guaranteed fatality. I had to inform Adam of that. There is Brian. and he beat the odds. He started on a new medication called Avastin. And those of you that want to condemn Big Pharma, that medicine was brand new then, and it saved his life and took his prognosis, his illness from a six-month definite demise to 18 years in which time he became a husband, a father,

a author, a filmmaker. And so, please, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. This medicine was designed to prevent blood vessel growth into tumors. Tumors have to grow blood vessels in terms of grow in order to grow themselves. If you block that blood vessel growth, they can't grow. This tumor was in his brainstem. Had it grown even millimeters, it could have been curtains. So he had an extraordinary outcome.

His book is out there and available if you want to read his journey. He was an extraordinary guy. We loved him and he will be missed. I did a one-hour show with Dawson on this. It'll be coming out, I believe, tomorrow, I think, perhaps next week. Adam dedicated a two-hour show to it, so we've all sort of had an opportunity to speak at length about this. You can find that elsewhere on Adamcrawler.com.

I think it's the best place to find it. All right. Now, we're going to switch gears here. I'm going to talk to Ben Berkwam. His new book, he hosts Law. and border. He has authored Step Into Fear. Ben, welcome to the program. That's great to be with you, Dr. Drew. So talk to us about Step Into Fear. What motivated that? What's it about? Well, it's my last 10 years. It's a combination memoir and somewhat of an adventure piece over my last 10 years. 10 years ago,

this October next month, I was set free from crack addiction. I lived a double life for three years. my wife didn't know. We're going on our 22nd year of marriage now, so it was right in the middle of our marriage up until that point. And in an instant, in a night, God set me free from that addiction as well as alcohol and tobacco. And I've been on this journey ever since. And along that journey, the book actually starts in the jungles of Panama. We were in a shootout with the Gulf Cartel a couple years ago. And it's one of those things that when you look in hindsight, you know, you see those paths, you see the direction God has, or you see where the outcome. A lot of times as we're walking through it, you don't really see it. And I've had so many people

come up to me over the years and say things like, oh, you're fearless. I could never do what you do. How do you do what you do? And so it's a book I've wanted to write for a long time to compile all of the stories as well as just for my own posterity. So as they get older, it's harder to remember some of them. And, but also to be an inspiration for young people to let them understand, first off my addiction and overcoming that. And then the fact that I deal with fear every single day, there's, there's almost no day that goes by and, you know, throughout the day many times that I'm dealing with some sort of fear or anxiety that I'm having to overcome. And so that's really what the book's about is each chapter is dealing with those fears in my life and hopefully providing some,

again, just some information that people can use, potentially in their own life, some inspiration for them, and hopefully it becomes a roadmap for some people to find their purpose, especially if they're dealing with addiction. Something that I've always said about people, the genetics of addiction, is it makes you able to tolerate extreme circumstances much better than the average person. And sort of, even maybe it'll high from it, too. You sort of get, not that you don't have fear,

and by the way, anxiety is what drives alcoholics' addicts berserk. They can't stand anxiety. Anxiety goes away where they're in extreme circumstances. They do have fear. They have fear. But you guys manage it in very interesting ways. You make great fighter pilots, great military officials.

You make great extreme athletes. But it is why the gene persists in our human population, really. That's it. But I wonder if you'd indulge me for a second. Crack cocaine is so interesting in how it affects people clinically. May I, do you mind if I dissect a little bit your syndrome with crack? Not at all, not at all. Okay.

When you would go on a binge, would you start alone or would you be with other people? I was always alone. I don't know if I'm unique in that sense. But I, so it's just the backup. Go ahead. But when you, when you would start, what would you know, having done it many, many, many times, what would you know about that first hit as compared to the second and third hit?

Well, the euphoria you feel at the front end. I mean, there's nothing like it. There's a reason why people do drugs. And you mentioned it. I'm a risk-collarant person by nature. I enjoy the thrill of life and taking chances. And it's one of those things. It's how you direct it.

For a while, I directed it into really bad directions into really bad options and choices in my life. And now I've learned to direct it into those positive things. But I still have to watch that to make sure I'm not spending all of my time away from my family doing things that heighten that adrenaline and fill that, you know, whatever that void is. I stay with me, though. I want to, I want people to understand how pernicious this thing is. So you would start, you knew you'd get high the first hit, the second and third hit. the second and third hits, you were kind of chasing that high, but you knew you wouldn't feel that ever again after the first hit.

Is that correct? Yes or no? Yes. Okay. And so they get that being the case, that being the case, maybe you do 10 more hits and then you stop and put the pipe down, right? Well, so I'll just walk you through my process. So my high action.

Yes or no. Yes or no. When you run out, knowing that you put. When you run out, you put the pipe. down. So when you run out, you stop. So even though you know you're going to feel like shit with each subsequent hit, you keep going. Even though you know it, you know it for sure. Yet you keep going. And as you're running out of drug, I'm sure you're panicking and freaking out. And where in the house, when you first, so your first hit, you know, would you change your location from the first hit to the

50th hit? Usually not. It's sometimes I would start where I bought the drugs and then I would drive home, but usually it was in my garage when my wife had gone to sleep. Okay, in the garage. And I was hiding it from her. And would you, and as you went along there, would you start looking outside for anything? Would you start looking through the cracks in the garage door? Was there anything outside you worried about? You know, I didn't, I didn't experience a lot of paranoia necessarily, but yes, I was listening for everything. You know, if my wife, the worst to me was getting caught and my wife finding out. So that was my prayer for years was that I would break the chains, but she wouldn't know.

So I was always listening to hear if she was coming. But clearly, when I smoked it in my car and I drove, I was definitely watching for cops or anyone else that might, you know, might send me to prison. So the paranoia, the paranoia of crack cocaine always involves uniformed officers, always. And it can get really bad when you start seeing things and start. And you knew you were going there when you started. And yet you can't stop.

That's why I want to point out the perniciousness of the cocaine with the crack particularly is it no matter how much you understand that yeah the worst part is you know you know the ending but so even even as you're smoking it before you smoke it you're excited about the first high but you know how much worse so you go from this high to the pits of hell and you know that's coming no matter what you know that's coming you know you're going to be out that's right and it is it's just a vicious cycle of highest highs and the most depressing hellish lows but you do it because you feel like you can't live without it without help You've got to do something to stop that because it will not stop.

Even though it feels like you should be able to stop it, it won't stop. All right. Well, thank you for sharing that with us a little bit. So getting, I wonder also if you would indulge me if you heard this Presley Gerber story, this poor kid that clearly was struggling with polydrug addiction. Did you have any thoughts about that? Well, I just thank God. Fentanyl wasn't around when I was using because I think about all the people.

I mean, the number of overdose deaths that we've had since then. never, I did get into opiates. I broke my femur in high school and that was, you know, an area that got me in the opiates, but I never got into heroin, thank God. But I do, I look at the overdose because of the mixing of drugs now. And I look at a guy like that. You know, this is one of those things too. People may take for granted. You have, you look at somebody who to the outer world has it all together. They have every opportunity in life. They have a supermodel mom and an actor dad. And they, they're given everything. But, you're as, as you had RFK Jr. talk about, your, your, you're, everyone's trying to fill something

that void inside of them. And so even somebody who looks like they have it all together, they may be dying on the inside. And so it is. It's a tragedy. A guy that was really trying to fix himself and turn his life around and unfortunately has no more chances. Yeah. It is a progressive illness is what people miss so often. Opio addiction is progressive. And it ends in death. Even with good treatment, it has a worse. prognosis than most cancers. This is what people don't understand. So they're always shocked. Like, well, he dies. How's that possible? So celebrities are dying. How's that possible? And what you're pointing out is the pain on the inside, the dead on the inside, the hollowness,

the what did you get JFRFK Jr. said? Called it the hole inside, whatever it might be. Spiritual void. And yeah, if they are not moving towards recovery, they are moving towards demise. Well, it breaks my heart that whole story. The other thing that we just found out recently in the press is that he apparently went down to South and got some ibogaine. My patients have been doing that for 30 years. And I will tell you, I don't know if you ever were tempted to do that, Ben, but I've seen the following. I've seen one case, one, where somebody actually stayed off opiates. And I'm not sure that guy was an opiate to begin with. I think he was just badly dependent on opiates. So it breaks the dependency. Every other patient I saw that went down to Ibogain for

ayahuasca, whatever it might be, came back, stopped for six months, and 100% of the patients went back to the opiates. And some of them went back down repeatedly to get treatments. And those patients had like significant personality changes. They weren't the same person, which to me is a profound thing. And yet we, no one talks about that. Did you see any of the, do you ever see people attempt to use those drugs? I don't, I didn't see anyone use them, but I thought about it myself, but more so from, and this is just from the addictive personality, I was wanting to more highs. And when you're, when you get high, this is the problem. If you can't get back to that same level where you're looking for that next thing to get you to that level.

And so, yeah, I look at most of these treatments, unfortunately, a lot of people, and I'm not an expert on this, so don't quote me on it, but just for my own experience, a lot of it is simply because people want to try. a new high. And so they look at this thing as, hey, I can go do this thing and pretend like I'm getting treatment in reality. It's just another form of high, another form of addiction. Yeah. You know what you fell victim to is all those people going, hey, Ben, it's a reset. You can reset. And when you reset, you come back up to your crack, you'll be all reset. It's all the same. You get like to get high again. You'll be three hits instead of one hit before you start going to paranoia. All right. So, I mean, it's a, it's a, not to make light of it, but addiction is funny.

I mean, makes people do and think funny things. Yeah, this is a crazy thing. When I was an addict, I couldn't see life being normal without it. Life seemed like it would be boring without it. I had no hope in the future.

All I saw was that I was going to end up in prison or death. And I kept praying that God would break the chains, but that my wife wouldn't find out. And it wasn't until the night that I came clean to her. I was sitting down in our bed. She had found a bottle of alcohol that I had replaced with her. water and so now she knew I was drinking again. She had no idea about the crack. She knew I was not the man she had married. But that night when I came clean to her, I felt the Lord say,

you kept praying, she wouldn't know. She's the only one that needs to. My chains were broken in that instant. And I was set free because she was that person in my life, that rock in my life that I couldn't, she had to know. But it is. As soon as I did that, then I got life back. And it was like this crazy shift in mentality where while I was in drugs, I couldn't see a life without drugs. As soon as I got out of drugs, it was like, why the hell did I do that to myself over and over and over? Like you said, it's just, it's amazing what it does to your mind. Well, congratulations. I'm glad you're on the other side of that. And now you've shared this book with us and you've got some thoughts about many things I want to get into here.

suicidal empathy is something that you've taken aim at. Give me a little bit of your thoughts on that. Then we're going to take a break. Then we're going to talk about ice and what you learn down there with the cartels. We have a lot to get into. So tell me about suicidal empathy before we go to break. Well, I mean, that's where we're at in this nation right now. We're at a place and goes back to my childhood when I was raised with corporal punishment that you have to learn your lessons or else you're doomed to repeat them.

you have spoiled children that grow up into spoiled adults that are now running our country and our world. And you look at certain ideologies in particular in America, the Islamist jihadist ideology that we've invited in, the communist ideologies that we've invited in, every major city in America is basically committing societal suicide. And rather than actually standing up and saying, don't do it, we've had a, you know, 20 years of compassion, suicidal entities, whatever you want to call it, where we've, instead of offending people, instead of saying, no, don't cut your body parts off, that's, that, that mental illness you have is, is not who you are. We've, we've come to a place where, uh, we're very close to hitting critical mass where

that slippery slope you can't turn back from. And that is my concern as a husband and as a father, seeing the direction that this country is going, all based on that idea of quote unquote compassion, compromise, um, and ultimately leading us to hell. And it's the same thing with, addiction. You know, you've got these addicts that are living in places like San Francisco and Portland and New York and Chicago, rather than saying, no, don't do this, you're going to have consequences for your behavior. We're saying, here's more pipes, here's more needles, here's more drugs, go do those things, and then we're not going to prosecute you on the other end. It's an absolute disaster for our nation. Yeah. Yes, I would argue that is not suicidal empathy, but that is

homicidal empathy. It is negligent manslaughter. That's just what it is because treatment works and that you're not moving people into treatment is no different that they're lying on the street bleeding and you walked over them. Same exact thing. It's just this disease is a brain disease and somehow we can't manage that in our heads. Yeah. Well, you have this homicidal side, but you also have the suicidal side when you tie it into what we're having on our southern border, when we're inviting, you know, things into our society that we know are killing us and rotting us from the inside. We know we're dying as a nation, but instead of stopping them, we continue to do it. And that's, again, it's probably two sides of the same coin, whether it's homicide or suicide.

They are very closely where there's a hard thing, get your head around. But suicide and homicide, they're not far apart. All right, Ben, hold till. We're going to come back and talk about ice and borders and what you're alluding to in that last comment right after this. So as we age, most men notice that they're not getting the same workout results they used to. But a lot of guys are reaching for synthetic hormones. Yes, some guys do get hormone replacement therapy, but you may not be ready for that, or you don't want to have the concerns associated with prescription medication or a needle even. Physicians nationally are recommending products like Biopro Plus,

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It wasn't all Dr. Drew or anything. Why would I screw myself? What am I, Dr. Drew? And a quick reminder for a limited time, Paleo Valley has everything pumpkin spice. I'm consuming a lot of it, I've got to say. They're pumpkin spice superfood bars, their

grass-fed and finished bone broth protein. Many brands claim to be grass-fed, but in fact, the cattle are finished on grains that are, that's a big distinction. Bone broth from grass-fed and finished beef bone is rich in amino acids like glycine-proline. Glycine is, of course, the precursor to glutathione, the important adioxid. And they are maybe deficient in many diets, most diets in America. In fact, the bone broth, which I typically put in my coffee, the chocolate is a, I think that's 13 grams of collagen. I'm having the pumpkin spice with cream right now.

Are you, is it 13? They all have lots of collagen protein, the bottom line. 80 calories per scoop. I think the pumpkin spice, which I had last night at Susan was like, oh, you're being so good. I don't know. I loved it. It was like having dessert. It does help with appetite for sure.

The bars are great. We love them. We travel with all the different flavors. Go to Dr.Doo.com slash Paley Valley for 15% off your first order and 20% off when you subscribe. All right, I'm talking to Ben Berkwam. I want to give you again where you can find him on X. It's Ben, I think underscore. Ben, you can correct me if that's not right.

underscore B-E-R, capital G, capital Q, U-A-M. The book is step into, no underscore. So it's just one word, Ben Berkwam, the capital G and capital Q? That is it. Okay. Step into fear is the book. Check it out. We're going to talk a little bit about that.

and what people have done to undermine the foundation of this country, or any country for that matter. How do you have a country without a border? Yeah, you don't. You don't. That's actually what got me into it. I'm going to switch at you real quick from Arab to ICE, Houston. These guys, I think I've ridden with more, done more ICE operations as a media than anyone else in the country, maybe.

It's an honor to do it. These guys are heroes to our nation, what they're doing to remove illegal aliens. both criminal and all illegals, which are criminal, for coming into our country, what we had, again, going back to what we were talking about before, suicidal empathy, this idea that anyone can come in from anywhere in the world into our nation and take all of our resources and potentially want to do us harm.

It is absolutely suicidal. And I watched it happen. What actually got me into it was I was 10 years ago just after being set free from addiction. I met my first angel mom. I was speaking in an event down in Southern California. and I met Agnes Gibney. And I couldn't believe that we have American citizens being murdered by illegal aliens. And we have politicians that care more about the illegals than they do about

American citizens. And that sent me on a journey to do what the mainstream media wasn't doing and actually tell the stories first, find out the truth, find out the answers, and then tell those stories to my audience. And that's been going on about 10 years now with my show, Law and Border with Real America's Boys. And now embedding for four years with Biden, we were locked out from working with ICE or Border Patrol. Now I work closely with Tom Homan and ICE and Border Patrol across America to show the truth, as you mentioned. You cannot have a country without sovereign borders. And the divide in our country, who's driving it, why they're driving it, and how we fix it. And before we go on with Ben, I just want to point out something. I've seen you guys chat it up on the

Rumble Rants. I will go into great detail about Presley Gerber at the end of the show. I'm very familiar with how he is being treated. I've got lots of thoughts. I've treated many patients exactly like him. And it's complicated, but I will get into the details in about half an hour or so. So stay tuned for that. All right.

So, Ben, have we moved in the right direction? Are we getting geared? Are we moving towards fixing this stuff? Or is it just going to slide back to the way it was, you know, after the midterms or maybe the next presidential cycle. Yeah, it really comes down to the midterms. And what we do, so at this point, we've stopped the bleeding. President Trump, for analogy, has put a tourniquet on the wound. We secured the border. We have the most secure border we've ever had. And I've spent a lot of time with Border Patrol. Now,

there's still our illegals coming through. There still are the cartel that are trying to sneak people in. But what we went from the invasion of our southern border through the NGOs, non-governmental organizations that were driving this, they were basically the policy side of Joe Biden that were pushing illegals from around the world to come invade, coming across, claiming fake asylum, being distributed into our country. We witnessed that for years. That all stopped. 48 hours after President Trump took office, what you're seeing on your screen now, stop. This is all footage that I captured for four years under Joe Biden, where we had nonstop invasion. We had fentanyl. You have the cartels that have moved into our country. And all across the border

and the interior of our country was being undermined. That's in the jungles of Panama, the Derry, gap. And now we have a secure border and we've, instead of inviting illegals in and distribute them into our country, we've got ICE who's actually going out to stop them, to apprehend them, and to send them back to where they belong, their home countries. And the same organizations, this is the problem, Drew, the same organizations that invited them into our country are many of the same organizations that are fighting to have these illegals stay in our country, knowing that they're hopefully going to wait out the clock. Their goal is to win in the midterms, to be obstructionist for President Trump's, the rest of his

terms. Basically, everything that's been done so far has been on executive order. Very little has been done from a policy standpoint to make any of these changes permanent. So, God forbid, the Democrats win the midterms, and God forbid they win in 2028. We get somebody worse. We get a Gavin Newsome or Kamala Harris. And we're going to be right back in the same position, but even a worse position because we haven't been able to get rid of the amount of illegals that were let in.

And that's really the biggest problem. Now, ICE is doing everything they can within the framework, the law. But you've got these same obstructionists. There's over 100 injunctions by federal judges around the country that are trying to prevent ICE from doing their jobs. And you've got all of these activist groups that are just waiting for another martyr to be killed by ICE, lawfully killed by ICE for committing a crime against ICE or attacking ICE so that they can, be weaponized out to then drive the base of the Democrat Party. That's that's basically where we're at right now. And you think about your young daughter growing up in this country. What have you learned that you could share with us, not just from the standpoint of what scares you the most, but where are we

going? How do we get the battleship back on course? Well, I mean, first, it's getting back to understanding that our rights come from God, that our government is and our sovereign, that we are the sovereigns, and that we are given those rights, that we are to protect those rights. And if we don't understand our rights and our purpose, then we have a country that is unsustainable. And our founders talked about it. If this is only a nation that will be sustainable through a moral leadership. And that's what we're seeing the lack of. We've seen morality in America destroyed. We've seen this, this secularism, this pushing out of God, ironically, pushing out of the God of the Bible, but now at the same time, the same people that were doing that are now inviting in the God of Islam, which is this weird

paradigm where you have groups like feminists that say that Christianity is intolerant, but are inviting in the most intolerant, hostile religion to women in the world. That's where we start. We have to get America back. And my friend Charlie Kirk talked about this a lot. Actually, my 15th chapter in the book is about him and his life and his legacy and where we go. It all starts with bringing God back into our society, which means first bringing God back into ourselves. And so that's my encouragement to everyone is find the Lord, find your purpose in life, and then we build from there.

If we don't do that, nothing else really matters. If we do that, you can save it, you can change it. Yeah. Just to soften your position a little bit because people have a weird reaction to just God as a concept. The reality is there are many things we don't perceive as human beings and there is always every one of us things bigger than us and you need to turn yourself over to whatever that is in your mind because for you to be a piece of shit around which the whole world revolves is not going to go well. That is not going to you got to turn yourself over.

We either look at a holy God or we look at ourselves as God. And at this point we have too many people looking at themselves as God who are it's you know you see the difference in impact the lack of compassion the lack of empathy for your brother no it doesn't go well doesn't go well it doesn't go well it doesn't go well and you have to be of service but you're not going to save the world because the world isn't all about you you're going to help one person at a time potentially if you're lucky enough to have something to offer another person but okay so that's my and first it's it's with you everything starts with you with you, get yourself right.

And to be fair, Ben, it's with you. And it's with, you know, Voltaire said it at the end of Candide. Cultivate your own garden. It's you, your family, your wife, your community. That is where you start. That's where you make a difference. And then if you want to build out from there, fine. But if you jump right over that, that's narcissism.

That's bullshit. So here we go. Yeah. All right. Well, listen, I appreciate your efforts. Where do you want people to go to find you? Social media is, you know, Real America's voice. You can binge watch all seven seasons of law and border if you want to get caught up on the truth that the mainstream media is hiding from you.

My social media is that Ben Berkwam. And if you would buy the book, it's available now everywhere. Amazon Barnes & Noble. It's just step into fear. You can't miss it. Great. Ben, thank you for joining us.

Hope to see you again soon. My honor. Thank you, sir. All righty. I want to give you guys a couple of minutes. And again, as I said, I will talk about Presley. You guys were chatting it up. I'll be happy to take questions and things from the rant.

We have a lot of people on Rumble that are expressing their experiences, and I love it. About addiction? Yeah, good. Well, both if you and Caleb could sort of collate some of that stuff and present it to me at the end of the show when we're going to, I'll talk about it in greater detail. Well, I think you just need to really explain precisely what you think happened in your own words. I know exactly. Listen, I deal with this stuff all the time. Because we're all just going, wow.

It is intense and it is sad. Just the one thing you need to frame it as and remember, even with good treatment, opiate addiction, and particularly polydrug addiction with the opiate addiction, is a terrible prognosis. Terrible. That's what Bob said. Yeah. And so that's what you got to remember. Okay. So let us welcome A.J. Rice, president and CEO of Publius PR, editor-in-chief of the Publius National Post.

I hope I'm pronouncing that probably. Host of Dangerous Laughter Podcast. It's a syndicated columnist as well. Number one bestselling author of the White Privilege Album and the Woking Dead. A new book is The Curse of the Bearded Lady, How the Trans Mafia Wacked American Sanity. Follow at, oh, we do have that book. I have looked at that one. Erecept.

Erecept. Uh-oh. A-I-R-I-C-E-C-E-E-C. C-E-P-R-A-J, welcome. Dr. Drew, great to be here. You know, as a geriatric millennial, it is always a pleasure to be with someone I grew up listening to. So great to be back on the program.

Well, you can identify with an actual geriatric host that way. You're just a geriatric millennial, which puts you to 36, 38. That's right. Talk to me about the new book. Tell us about that. Well, look, I write political satire, you know, raised on Rush, raised on PJ O'Rourke, raised on Mark Twain, and, you know, you and Adam, quite frankly, and others. And plenty of people, and I did get Dr. Carol Lieberman to do the forward,

but plenty of people have done, you know, medical examinations of the trans mafia. I mean, you do it, you've broke it down psychologically. But I wanted to do a cultural one, sort of a cultural, autopsy on how the hell did we get to this point? I mean, how many hospitals have you been in and seen all 72 of the genders, right? The fact that academia, right, the fact that the media, the fact that the Democrat Party, certain celebrities have all thrown in on this. And it's an offshoot. It's a flavor. It's a flavor of woke ice cream for sure. And, and you know, we've always had freak shows. Tim Curry just passed.

We always had the Rocky Horror Picture show, but, you know, the John Waters movies usually played at midnight or at 1 a.m. They weren't playing in kindergarten. And that is... Well, to be fair, to be fair, now, hold on. Vine did end up on hairspray, right? That's right.

Vine was a character, so she went mainstream. She went mainstream, to be fair. That's true. But it was never aggressive. I saw the aggression kicking in about mid 2016, 15, something like that, when there's a lot of anger being expressed. And then a lot of anger being expressed on behalf of the transgender community, right? For sure. And look, you're dealing with, in some cases, mentally ill adults that are being manipulated.

You're dealing with the grooming of children. Certain states fight this. Certain states, you know, are all in on it. I mean, we've got this case. Is there a cultural eye of the storm? Is there something you came upon that you thought, oh, this is where it all kind of emanates? Well, here's the thing.

When you're dealing with social justice warriors, they will overlay their psychosis, mixed with Marxism usually. It's usually political correctness mixed with some sort of woke ideology. They're able to dress this up however they want. So whether it's Queers for Palestine, or Black Lives Matter, it all kind of mixes together. And I heard you talking a little bit

about this with Ben. You know, I've always said, totalitarians of a feather will flock together. If they have a common enemy, you absolutely, I mean, this is why you've got, you know, trans-supporting Hamas. This is, I mean, if you really want to study the 20th century, I mean, Hitler really didn't think the Italians were white. And he cut a deal with an Asian country. Eventually, if we hadn't won, I'm sure they would have went after each other. So it is a process of elimination, right? So that's where we're at. I mean, I try to have fun with it, Dr. Drew. I mean, look, comedy is moral warfare by other means, right? So I poke fun at it, but some of this stuff is deadly serious. Well, I just saw a post with Adam. I think it was on Instagram. He was on Tyrus's

podcast, and he was saying, you know, comedy done well is really exposing the truth. And it puts truth into a, first of all, it either shines a light on something you hadn't seen those right in front of you, or it kind of wraps it in a package that you can digest it more easily. Absolutely. And, you know, some people say it's the ability to transform horror into humor, right? So it's tragedy plus time equals, tragedy plus time equals comedy. And Adam's, you know, Adam's a master of it, you know, Rush used to say his job was to use irreverent humor to illustrate truth. So, you know, I have always found, I've always found that, you know, that, you know, rebellion sometimes, you know, doesn't move as fast as ridicule, that ridicule kind of moves faster. And when you're doing, when you're covering these types of topics, if a time traveler were to show up and you know better than anyone,

Okay, about the long history in medicine and in other places of junk science, right? So we see it with climate change. We saw it with COVID. You know, we used to do bloodletting and we used to do lobotomies and people believed in phrenology, right? A head-sized, dictated, you know, intelligence. Somebody is going to wonder how half the country or at least, you know, half of our political elites, found under their skirt 72 genders. How did we get here?

How did we get to this point? And I have always found that, you know, you've got to bring shame back. You've got to have a little fun with them. I mean, look, you know as well as I do. Anheiser Bush, in particular, had an absolute heart attack. They put Dylan Mulvady in the bathtub

with a couple of Bud Light Pounders. And all as it took was Kid Rock in his AR-15 in his backyard, and that was over. Yeah. No, you're right. It can turn around fast. But, yeah, shame and mockery. It's time is, shame is, shaming is a little aggressive, and I feel like shaming can create

a counterreaction, but mockery, there's no escape from mockery, because that's, again, that's showing the truth. But, AJ, sit tight. I've got to take a quick break, and we come back. I want you to do something for me and think about it across the break. I want you, I love the time. traveler model. I like thinking about that, the thought experiment. But I want you to talk to a time traveler as maybe you could even bring somebody in from a time of previous mass formation and seeing

the mass formation of not just COVID, but climate and AI and what that time traveler might want to tell us as an insight, perhaps, okay? Brilliant. Let's do it. Got it. All right up for this. Dr. Drew here. Fatty 15 was discovered working with the Navy's fleet of dolphins. A brilliant veterinary epidemiologist realized that dolphins deficient in this odd chain fatty acid were helped by replacing that fatty acid. They didn't get the conditions. Turns out humans have similar deficiencies. It supports healthy glucose metabolism. It gets into the cell membrane and decreases the pool of available oxidizable species that can lead to ferruposis.

So it is considered the longevity nutrient. If you'd like yours, go to doctor.com slash fatty 15. I don't see the profession doing anything to really build trust beside you. Happy to be on here. Thank you for having me. You and I see the world the same way. What is it like for you to be the most chiseled and best looking man in media? Giving us the information we need.

Thank you for the truth. My pleasure. We are going to take your calls at 8333-3-3-D. D-R-A-W. AJ Rice, you can follow in many places. Let me give you all the places where you can find, AJ. It's ARI-S-P-P-R. You're going to tell me why the Ares-Sep.

Publius PR. That's Areseppr.com at Publius PR, at Dangerous Laughter on YouTube, and of course the curse of the bearded lady, how the trans mafia whacked American sanity. And before the break, I asked A.J. To do a little thought experiment for me about time travel. and mass formation.

Well, yeah. And I mean, look, and it's no different that if you were to go meet, stand there and watch Columbus take his first cigar from the Tano Indians, if you, if you are standing at the light of discovery, and people look, people want to run down this country, yes, we make mistakes, we have eight-year blips that are worth nothing. We have four-year blips, like with the vegetable who preceded Trump there, where we have nothing, but we are the most sophisticated that we have ever been with technology, with medicine, with health. You talk about it on this show. So yes, there has always been, you know,

people that are trying to drag us backwards, for sure. But the thing about conservatism and sort of the pro-liberty movement is that if you remember the founders, and if I had, you know, an alien here in front of me, I would point to some of their. statements that America always finds a way to put forth people, not just politicians, but regular citizens, almost doctor like, you know, white blood cells flying towards an infection, to cure some of these ills, to cure some of them. Because I believe 2024 was a woke Waterloo moment. And yeah, the DEI people got yanked and the ESG people got yanked. And they're changing how they speak about wokeism and globalism now. I,

I saw AOC talking about, oh, woke 1.0, it went a little too far. You know, they are, obviously, they have PR people trying to train them. But we are winning. And it's not really Democrat versus Republican. It's sane versus insane because you've got guys like Federman, like Bill Maher, like Stephen A. Smith, they realize that the Democrat Party, if they're going to die on the hill of the bearded lady, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're. cooked. I mean, because regular people, you know, and it's like six to eight percent of us kind of decide these elections, right? If they think you're the party of the DSA, you're the party of burning Tesla dealerships, you're the party of killing health care executives in the streets,

you're the party of the 72 genders, then you're cooked, you're toast. And I think history, you know, we'll spell that out for sure. Well, your mouth to God's ears, we certainly do have a brilliant system. And it has, the resiliency is what I'm saying. And part of that is the state system. If the federal part does not get too involved, I mean,

that's what was supposed to happen. The federal part was supposed to be very, very limited. I mean, let's be fair, it was border interstate commerce, military, and even currency, that's about it.

Some taxation came along the way. Yeah, I mean, you know, everyone thinks that they're always living inside, the darkness. They always think their darkness is the worst. I am coming to you live, not far from Washington, D.C., but I am right near something called the Battle of the Wilderness, which in the Civil War was basically a stalemate. It was absolutely atrocious. The forest here, you can still feel it in the forest. Both sides took unbelievable losses and gained no land. It's where Stonewall Jackson was shot right now.

next door in Chancellorsville by his own men. So, I mean, believe me, we can survive the DSA. We'll survive Dr. Fauci. But, you know, we all kept receipts. And, you know, a time traveler that says to, you know, you were talking religion with Ben. I mean, what's the one thing that Jesus and Darwin can agree on? That there's only two genders. But back to the Battle of Wilderness, isn't that the one that really pissed the American public off about Grant? That was like a bridge too far? Yeah, well, it was brutal.

And they took breaks and then they went back at it. You know, Central Virginia, I mean, the thing about Virginia, and we have this nutty governor here, Le Dame Blanche, I call her, right? She was out there rapping hip hop hooray there on Juneteenth. You know, Virginia is something the left has always wanted. And it hasn't been won since George W. Bush in 2004 for the Republicans. It was the home of the first political dynasty. You know, four out of the first five presidents are from here.

And it's where both the Civil War and the Revolutionary War ended. So if you want to cancel America, you have to start with Virginia, which is why you see so opportunities where outside forces try to come in and screw up Madison's house and screw up Washington's house and screw up Jefferson's house is crazy. It's got it's got an app you can download where, you know, Monticello where you can like, you know, go through a VR tour as like as a slave. Right. Some of it, it's crazy stuff. So, I mean, we have to push back on this. We have to preserve where we came from. But it's not as dark as everyone thinks it is because this country has been through a lot.

Yeah, I'm glad I'm glad to hear you say that. I do feel like we're kind of shifting a little bit. I saw Victor David Hanson say something the other day. He's like, these people that want to get rid of the Senate and get Supreme Court about all and he goes, who are you? All these millions of Americans have died so you could have your freedom to say these. Who are you to undo everything they fought for? And, you know, Susan, I don't know if you feel this way, but I feel like we were in

Disneyland last weekend. I really felt that there was a change. It felt like people really wanted to be around each other. They welcomed each other. And man, they were spending money. And which is something I was like, that kind of freaked me out. It's like, where is the economic problem there? Disney is a little bit of an elitist experience.

No, but it was a mixed. There was a mixed population. No, no, no, no, no. I disagree because I was looking very carefully at that. It, you would think it would be given how much money. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah.

It seemed like everyone was participating. And look, if you go to a major league baseball game, even if your team's bad, you go to Saturday college football, you know, you go to an NFL game. You get the same experience. I mean, I'm in D.C. Yeah. The Washington Nationals aren't great. You know, I think that should change their name to the Washington swamp.

But, and I'm from Philadelphia, so obviously I'm a Phillies fan. But, you know, there's all types of people there. And there's, you know, groups and kids and field trips and all kinds. of things. And I saw people from the club. Yeah, from the club box to the nosebleed, people are spending money. Yeah. And they're and they're communing. They're enjoying each other together. All right, Jay, I want to leave it at that because you give me a little positive note to go on. And I think at least for the moment, things are shifting. And I think the time traveler would, I think the time travel would stand on our shores and go, you did this, you did it again?

Mass formation again? And this, with all your advanced technical? You fell for this shit again? Oh my God. I thought I grew that. Absolutely. Just remember humor is a public audit. You do it. I do it. I see you on with Greg. You guys do a great job. I mean, you got to take it to these people. Don't be mean about it. Although I'm from Philly, I can be a bit of a wise ass. You know, take it to these people. And especially young people, a lot of times, humor leads the way from Aristophanes to Shane Gillis. AJ, where do you want people to find you? At Publiuspr.com.

You can go to Dangerous Laughter.com. Go to Amazon, grab a copy of the book. Maybe you could help Jeff Bezos send his wife back up in the space. And what is Airy, Airy C-E? You know what? You know, I know a free wheel in here. That's not my handle. So, you know, I don't want to get anyone in try.

I don't get any of the production team in trouble. All right, good. But my, yeah, my two Twitter handles are. Yeah, I honestly don't know where you got that, Frederick. It's not in my notes. It's sitting on my... Maybe I copied and pasted something. Oh, no, I make it apart.

It's the way it's written. I can't see it from this distance. It's A.J. It's A.J., what does it say? I can't quite read it. It's too small. See, you got to give me bigger crink, gentlemen. Just go to bearded ladybook.

Just go to bearded ladybook.com, and you can experience the bearded lady. It's like a Tim Burton movie. Halloween's coming up, and I'm sure you'll see some of them out there. Done and done, my friend. Thank you for being here. Thanks, brother. Appreciate it. You got it.

A little deeper on the tragic story of Cindy Crawford's son. Yeah, Presley Gerber. My mic is coming off here. My earpiece, rather. He's got to change gears here. What's that? He has to change gears here. Yeah, to change gears.

And it'll get myself re-hooked up. All right, there we go. All right. So let's look at what you guys. guys were twittering about here. Well, there was a lot of discussion about Suboxone and tooth loss, but we get to that after. And what? Tooth loss and methadone or anyways, I took pictures of it.

Okay, so Suboxone, so let's talk about Presti Gerber. He put some videos out there where he talked about in detail about his present treatment, about some of his recent treatment. So let's be super clear, I don't know this young man, I don't know what treatment he's had. So I'm trying to read the tea leaves. I'm trying to read between the lines on what kind of care he was getting, how it likely went, what the quality of the care was. And the overview is it sounded getting pretty good care. And so I don't want to be accused of sitting in treatment of treatment where I wasn't a part of it.

I just, it was complicated. Now let me kind of break down some of these. Oh, I'm glitching here. Am I okay to continue here, Kayla, or misconstruing one. Let me just say again what you just said. Oh, boy. Okay.

He's got it. Yeah. Without even talking about China. Okay. Start with you don't know about his treatment. You're not going to judge. I don't know about his treatment. I wasn't there.

And the overview instinct I have about the carrier who's getting. It was pretty darn good. And people worked very hard to try to help him. That's sort of clear. But there's some butts in here. Let me start. with the fact that I could sense that the patient was kind of in control of his care. And with drug addiction, we want the patient to participate in their care, of course,

but it's not like making a decision to have a coronary bypass surgery where you want the patient to actually participate. Because the brain is the seat of the problem, the people with addiction cannot dictate their care because every decision they make, every instinct they have will be colored by or to go back to drugs. So they will make bad decisions. They will insist on things that aren't good for them.

And it's not their fault. They just don't know. They're in the disease. Like Ben said earlier, once he got out of it, he was like, what was I thinking? He was like breaking from a spell, but they don't make good choices.

Okay. So there's that problem. That he seemed to be kind of, at one point in his video, he said, you know, I had a cold turkey detox. And I'm just not going to do that again. And I'm like, oh boy, so he's, you know, he's setting the parameters, which, again, I, you know, I want him to be participating, but he's dictating care.

And that's a different thing. So that's a problem. You want to talk about Suboxone. Suboxone is a Kappa opioid. It's been very important in treating opioid addiction. It has saved lives. But, like, much like the GLP ones, it is being overdone. Okay.

Now, I'm going to, I don't want to pass judgment. on Suboxone just yet. It is particularly useful in chronic pain for some people, not everybody. And in getting people off drugs, it can be very helpful. And in treating people in an outpatient setting, very helpful. The idea that you have to stay on it or you will definitely go back to doing opioids, I don't adhere to that. In fact, I think you couldn't keep people in harm's way the certain cases, if you're not careful. Certainly Presley was example of that. He was on very, very, very low dose of suboxone. He was getting there.

And by the way, on one milligram twice a day, which is what he said he was taking, that, you know, it's pretty much there. It's not really doing much to him. My concern is somebody gave him benzodiazepines, both Xanax and Valium. Those are highly addictive. They absolutely maintain the disease.

And they should never be prescribed with opiates because that's how people stop breathing. So we're going to find out, I suspect that when he, when the toxicology comes back, It's going to be opiates and benzodiazepines if indeed this was an overdose. Or, you know, by the way, we don't even know what happened in this treatment facility. It might be that he died in withdrawal or something or had some sort of untoward medical complication that we haven't heard about yet.

Most common things, smuggle drugs in, overdoses, stops breathing. That's the most common thing. Then the fact that this was a beautiful environment and was at a hospital. Yeah, he should have been in a hospital, in my opinion. Not in a residential facility. Residential facilities are not designed. Is that the facility that where he went? Yeah, that's the facility.

Yeah. Yeah. They're not designed for these complex, psychiatric, polydiagnosed, poly drug addicted. He talks about how, in his video, how he got 20 medications from psychiatrists, and they weren't really supervising him, and he wanted to get off them, and they were tapering, but he didn't know quite how. Tapering never works, guys. It just doesn't work.

I'm sorry. The tapering thing is, I mean, you can tape people. down, but you can't taper people off. It's just a, it's just not a severe drug addict like this. It just doesn't work. So that already is a concern of mine. And the fact that if you have somebody, much like Lindsay Clancy, I told you this during that whole case, if you have somebody who's not reliably taking their medication, they should be in the hospital and supervised when they're, when they're trying to sort through their pharmacopoeia. And yes, for me, I would aim this kid towards some sort of absinous treatment.

We would have to get the family, all family members, actively involved in Al-Anon with a sponsor doing steps. We don't know if that happened. I will tell you, I advise it all the time to family members, and they rarely do it. Sometimes they do it. It's more so these days they are able to do it because they have access to Zoom meetings,

so they can go to meetings 24 hours a day, right on their computer, anytime. Just go and keep going and find a sponsor. Because the disease is interpersonal. It'll affect you in ways you don't see consciously. And so every interaction you have with the identified patient, every decision you make on behalf of that patient, if you're not stepping outside of the relationship with the addict

and talking to a sponsor, you will make the bad choice because the disease will take advantage of every good parenting instinct that you have if you are a parent. Okay, what else were people talking about here, Susan? Can you please tell me? I'm struggling to understand what things. about, like he mentioned that he had all these different psychiatrists.

Yes. Don't you think that's more, that's me taking their own, you know, health into their hands. I'm going, I don't like the psychiatrist. I'm going to try this one. Correct. I worry about that. He also said, he also said, I'm doing my own research. Stop.

You're not researching for cancer. You're a drug addict and you should not be dictating your care. But do you think when people have more money, they start picking and choosing who their psychiatrist? Absolutely. That happens. People get looking for. special care, special care. Special care. Celebrities get lots of special care. Prince got special care. Michael Jackson got special care. How'd that work out?

So the standard of care is standard for a reason. That's what should be delivered to celebrities. Just like everybody else, no different, nothing different for them. So he also was taking metazapine, which is a sort of an antidepressant, no big deal. He also went down to Mexico and got ibogaine, which I have never seen worked in a sustained. No, I take it back. I've seen one case where it worked in a sustain way. Two cases. One was a dependent patient and one was a very complicated personality disorder psychiatric problems with opioid addiction. He got benefited from it. He cleared up some of his personality stuff, which was interesting. And I'm not saying don't ever do it. It's not going to have utility. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying we don't know how to use it. We don't know the

risks. We don't know who should get it yet. We don't know. It's going to have utility. All the, you know, for sure psilocybin will have utility. I suspect Ibogain may have some utility. But right now, I've only seen problems. I've seen it work for a short period of time and then people relapse. So, and all the people out there, they're saying, God, it's a bocumoxone forever because you'll overdose if you don't tell you on something. Yeah, well, Ibogaine is definitely one of those circumstances where you're going to go back on.

People tend to go back on after having been absent in for a while. So, all right. So he checked into the hospital Saturday night at 10 p.m. and he was pronounced deceased around 9.40. It wasn't a hospital, right? And this happens. It even happens in hospital. Maybe he was detoxing.

Maybe. But nursing, well, not a few, who knows. But there really isn't nursing per se in a residential facility. And nursing is from a hospital. This wasn't a hospital. Yeah, that's the tough. And so there may have been, there are certain sort of monitoring needs for somebody in withdrawal.

Well, Megan Kelly mentioned that she had somebody in her family who was in, went to rehab. She said that this one had little cabanas everywhere. And that's like easier to snuggle stuff in. Look, they smuggle in through. Look, I've seen some crazy stuff. People smuggle through amazing. Look, I've had family

members bring drugs in. Family members that bring the patient in for treatment are the same people to smuggle in the drugs when the patient starts complaining about being uncomfortable. It's so crazy. Right. This disease makes people crazy. It does. Well, we don't know what happened. But, you

don't know what happened. We do understand that this is a disease that kills people. And you have to know that if you use these drugs, you're taking the risk of death. And I will say the one thing that I want to emphasize and I've been emphasizing repeatedly is nobody can seem to get their head around the fact that opiate addiction is a fatal condition, a progressive fatal condition without treatment. Virtually 100%. With treatment, still a bad prognosis. So it is particularly with other psychiatric problems and polydrug use, that's where the prognosis becomes increasingly dicey. So even with good care, much like a terrible cancer, because opiate addiction is a worse prognosis than most cancers. And somehow with cancer, we go, oh, it was cancer.

Opio addiction, go, well, how'd that happen? How'd that happen? And why so many celebrities? So celebrities is the other thing about this. I wrote a book about it. It's called The Mirror Effect. I did some research on this. People that come to celebrity are coming to celebrity,

often with a lot of childhood trauma. The childhood trauma is attempting to be managed with the fame or with the performing. And then the disease of addiction, the genetics for addiction, is in there. And when the fame doesn't treat the problem, which it does not, they start looking outside of themselves for ways to regulate their emotions. and then you have the disease of addiction. And it's not like they get more severe disease than other people, it's just they can progress more.

A normal person has an employer that goes, hey, you're drinking on the job. We're going to fire you or you get treatment. And the celebrity doesn't necessarily have that. And so it progresses to a much more severe extent with celebrities. And they return to work prematurely as the other thing. They need you take time off and take treatment. Aidan Pata Cherry did treatment for eight months after that time.

She seemed like a sober person. and she had a car accident, had back pain. My suspicion is somebody gave her an opiate for that, and that's what took her down. Boom, that's it. It's all it takes. It's very rapid with somebody in her condition. And in this kid's case, I'm not sure he had any periods of time where he took treatment for 12 to 24 months, which is what should have happened. Now, maybe he was heading into that this time.

One of the things people do is they head into treatment. They will often have a last hurrah. They will take a bunch of drugs, do a bunch of heroin. On the way in, it's routine. People do that all the time. And it's on the unit to anticipate that and watch them carefully. It's kind of like an alcoholic when you can't cut them off. And they go, just one more, just one more.

You know, but unfortunately, you know, they probably talked him into going. And he was like, oh, one more. And that's how it goes. It's a little more than one more. They usually do a bit more than one more. And, you know, people get like, oh, he's doing heroin. He's heroin before he went to treatment. He's a heroin addict.

and he's going off to treatment. He wants a little bit, he's a taste before he goes in. It happens all the time. In fact, if people are driving somebody an opiodatic to treatment, I used to make them bring

Naltrexone with them. They locks on because you might have somebody stop breathing in the car. It happens all the time. Okay, so did I, Caleb, did you see any other things in the rants?

Any people chatting it up? I see the Rumble rants here. I'm trying to get a sense. A couple of them that I saw. Someone wanted to know, Can you overdose on subs and benzos? I guess Suboxone is probably what that means. Yes.

Yeah, absolutely. But it doesn't typically happen on the low, low dose stuff. He was on very low dose suboxone. So he didn't being on benzodiazepines is not such a crazy thing, but it's still not advised, not a good idea. And just him being an addict and being on two different benzodiazepines and managing them himself, he sounded like he was managing them himself. Terrible idea.

The person who commented saying. People don't understand addiction. They don't understand it. But he was talking about it publicly. And then it was like nothing was done or... Well, no, he was in treatment doing stuff. People go, is that a cry for help? No, he was just talking about the treatment he was getting what he's up to.

He was saying, yeah, I'm doing okay. Here's all the treatment and things aren't perfect. But yeah, he was actually sort of... I wouldn't say he was bragging, but he was just telling you what was up. It was nothing surprising there. Now, the fact they went to treatment, you know, six weeks or something after that. What's that, Caleb? It's like you said earlier, Lindsay Clancy, like that's what makes these cases extra sad is because both of them were actually trying to get help, like actively with doctors, actively trying to get themselves fixed and then things still went wrong.

Yes. Yes. And people, here's that, I don't agree. The drugs number a hole already in her? What? What? What? I don't understand what that was.

Don't do that to yourself. I can't understand some of these questions. All right. Oh, boy. you guys, come on. Outful there is anyone? It's, you know, what I took away from this when I first heard that video of him was, and being married to you,

you know, I've heard things in the past. He was taking a lot of stuff. I think that he should have been taken off of everything under medical guidance. But we don't know. Maybe they tried that and failed. Maybe you got, maybe had some previous overdoses. But it's funny because like, I remember when you were, I don't know if I'm a should talk about, but he's dead now, right?

Ozzy Osbourne. So it was a weird thing. He fell over an attractor and somehow you were doing, you helped him out. And he was taking a lot of stuff. And it was making him kind of sound neurologically damaged. That was, look, a lot of people were being treated with a lot of men. That was a long time ago. A lot and a lot of doctors were loading on meds to special patients.

And they were fine. Very similar. No, no, it's not. It's not. The good news, it's not. That is not what this is. That was the belief that, you know, pain is what the patient says it is, pain controls what the patient says it is, just give them more drugs.

And if they have side effects, give them more drugs, there was an absolute faith in pharmacopia. That was like 15, 20 years ago. Now, this is an attempt at care without fully getting how addiction works. A. Einstein, you put on here how people on suboxone are losing their teeth and stuff. High-dose suboxone. Yes. Higher-dose suboxone, bad idea. I'm against it, period. I don't care who the patient is. Methadone, disaster. Particularly high-dose methadone. For everything. What did A. Einstein say? Let's see. Losing their teeth, but worse, they're quickly drinking. Yeah, and they use other drugs on top of it. And then they're not, then they're only checked with their cheek swabs and things for opiates and not for other drugs, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Again, that's not understanding addiction, not understanding how it works. So you don't think that like cleaning everything out of their system and adding on things that aren't so strong altogether at once wouldn't help. I think if he came to me, I don't know the history though. I would need the history. My suspicion is that if he came to me, I would put him on a full detox. I'd get off everything. Let's see what's going on here. You can't tell what's up until they got off everything.

Now, I would assure him that I could make it comfortable because I never, I, hear words that never came out of my mouth ever. How are we going to get this person off benzodia or opium? I don't know how we're going to do it. Never had a problem. Wasn't perfectly comfortable, but we never had any problems. Everyone got off the drugs. It was fine.

So the idea that you have to use this because no one gets off. They have cravings. No one gets off. No, everyone got off. No problem. We have protocols we use that were quite effective. And people are still using. He mentioned one he was on that he was getting in the outpatient setting,

which I would not do. Now, in terms of adding things back, boy, I would take my time about that. And things like you have a pentant and mood stabilizers, like a mictol or a depa code. Yeah, these things are very, very, very useful in early recovery. When the brain is healing. But you cannot make a real diagnosis

until people have been off everything for months. You can sort of help them and try to make... The notion here is how do you make recovery possible? That's the question. Is it impossible for some people to sustain their abstinence because of the brain state they're in? Or is it that they are not willing or they're not following direction or they're still in it and bullshitting and obfuscating and lying? And in which case, you've got to hold them in the recovery, hold them in that environment for a longer period of time until, they start to have some clarity.

And if people don't have the gift of desperation or don't have a moment of clarity or don't haven't lost enough yet that they really understand that either their life is in danger or by life, I mean everything in their life and their actual heart beating, if they don't understand that, it's pretty hard to get through. And people tend to slip and slide around for long and long periods of time. It's very difficult. It is extremely challenging. That's why I don't like to sit in judgment of treatment people get.

because it's tough and it's even the best treatment, best efforts don't work out. I think that's the thing for people to remember. Okay, sorry, I'm trying to read your guys stuff here. What are you guys talking about now? They were all sharing their war stories and they're just sort of, you know, discussing it between themselves. But I love it. I love it. Thank you for sharing.

It's very, it's courageous to go out there and tell your story about this. stuff because part of, you know, A.A. and everything is it's all anonymous, but it's nice to be able to talk about it openly, especially with Drew. A. Einstein, I don't know what you're saying. It's a really interesting thing you're bringing up, but I don't know quite what you're saying. Okay, so I hope that helps clarify things for people. Jay Wink is complaining about me or about Susan? Excuse me Yeah, whatever.

It's all good. We love you anyway. There was stuff about getting your teeth I guess if you have a problem with meth and you do lose your teeth. Suboxone can screw things up. Look, these are not healthy things to be doing. These are trying to save your life.

Here's Ayn said again. I'm one of seven, grandpa, one of 22, drinking and driving. Is grandfather of 22? I don't know if that's true. I don't quite. I'm going to drive against the line. Maine.

I can't. I can't follow your saying. But listen, Susan, do you agree with me? That was confusing. Did you, other than, you know, did you, did you have a feeling? This is my last question before you wrap the show up today. About Disneyland. It's looked positive to you at all.

Because to me, I came away thinking positively. No, I did. It was really fun. No, no. Forget fun. Just what I was observing. No, the people were all. It was like young families and their kids. Obviously there's kids and parents, but both parents. I saw a lot of men carrying their daughters around and very positive. It wasn't like back in the day, it was a little more of a youthful thing. And it was not, it wasn't quite family oriented. So there was one thing. So it was family. And they looked healthier. Everybody looked healthier.

Everyone looked healthy. There was family. There was family. They looked happy and they looked happy to be a part of. Like everyone was sort of, there was not a lot of isolation. People were like, cool. Everyone was good with each other. And this is the part that I don't know quite what to make of yet. That's the most positive thing. People were spending so much money.

It was like, where is the economic problem that people keep talking about? Certainly not when you come to Disneyland. The amount of money just to walk in the park. When we went with three kids young, we would be freaked out. Really, no, you can't have that. You can, no, no, you can't do that. And all I saw is people throwing stuff at kids. Here, take this wand.

Take this bubble machine. Take this whatever. I was like, boom. I think people save up all year and they take their kids. Or they buy the yearly pass, which we finally bought because we're going to go with our granddaughter. Our granddaughter, Eloise, loves music, loves theater. She literally, this is the call. I'll tell your story.

She's 20 months old. And she sat for 30 minutes without moving in a chair at the end of the day. She sat for the 15 minutes before the theater performance. She was like this and then realized she couldn't control her hands and started like putting them under her armpits and behind her back. She became a SpongeBob character. She'd be right in front of my eyes. And then when the curtain opened, she did one of these. Oh, I can't handle it.

I'm too excited. I was watching. And I thought she is now Patrick from SpongeBob. I was watching Bennett, who was passed out cold in the stroller right next. It was so cute. And then she sat there for 20 minutes and we traded out. We switched to. And then when it was all over, everybody left and she sat in her chair on the bench.

Like she didn't get up once to run around. She's 20 months old. She's not even two. Yeah. And she said more. I know. She does the little hands sign more and more more. We have a call.

We have a call. John. Yeah, I, John. What's happening? Give me your question. Let's have it. Dr. Oh, my question was, it's happened back in 2003, about 23 years ago.

but I went to the hospital and wanted to get, you know, get off marijuana, marijuana dependency. And they prescribed me Zyraxa at the time. Yep. I'm just wondering, you know, I took up like two weeks. Well, it's been 23 years. Yeah, it kind of stopped. I've stopped smoking, you know, the kind of help. But I was just wondering, after like two years.

No, no, no. Like, I started getting a pain on my side. It's not to help you. Yeah, it's not to help you stop. That's not what those are prexes for. that, okay, so 15, 20 years ago, you didn't have the high concentrations of THC. So what happens in, back then, what was happening in withdrawal is people would get kind of a faint paranoia. It'd be kind of looking over their shoulder and stuff.

Did you have anything? Do you remember that? Yeah. And so they would give this, we would use the xyprexa. Yeah, the zypexia really worked for that and it made the withdrawal more comfortable. For the first two weeks, it's only designed for that. It's like a withdrawal medication. It's not something to get you off the drug,

and it's not something that would, you know, be sustained in any way. It just had some utility low dose. And I don't know why Zeprexia and not Respiridone, the other ones, but Cyprexia was particularly good for that. I think it really worked, but the thing was, like, they made me stay in the hospital for, like, two weeks, so they wanted to monitor me, why they were giving it to me? It was kind of weird, like the first two days.

Maybe you were... Maybe you were... everything. Well, that's weird. And it was kind of weird. Were you more paranoid than you remember? I don't even remember because it was so long ago. I mean, I was just like, I was only 23 years old at the time.

And it was kind of weird. Maybe they were to leave. Yeah, there's something up. You know what I mean? If you can ever get those records, it would be fascinated to see what was going on. Because stuff like that happens a lot these days where people get like really paranoid and psychotic and it's challenging. and they end up staying that way

and they have to be on medication sometimes for long periods of time. Thank you, John. I'm glad you're well now and sober. Congratulations. We have a question on Rumble. Okay, what's that? Would you, Beebe listens?

Thanks for listening, Beebe. Dr. Drew, details of what an appropriate medically supervised detox looks like. Well, it depends what the medicine is. You know, some people... Let's say it was this guy. This guy, I would taper off the metazeper, I would, I would focus.

Tell us what that is. It's a reverend. It's a nighttime antidepressant. It's good for sleep. It's good for anxiety. It's a novel class. It's been around for a long time. It doesn't really have a withdrawal syndrome associated with it, but you do want to stop it kind of slowly.

Because any of these drugs can cause crazy things like acathia or withdrawal syndromes are unpleasant. But I would focus on, he is so clearly. overcome with his anxiety and desperation and those sorts of symptoms. I would be using phenobarbital in large amounts. I would be using gabapentin in large amounts. I would quickly taper them down, but we would get him landed with that. I would probably use some, his withdrawal from the Suboxone will be suppressed by some of those medications. And depending on whether he developed Suboxone withdrawal, there are things like, he's already on Praisesin, but there's Clonidine. He was using praisesin for

or nightmares, which were probably withdrawal symptoms anyway. And why he had to be on a medication for nightmare, Susan was like, why is he taking medicine for a nightmare? He had a nightmare, big deal. She was right. But we would use Clonidine, we'd use Roebaksin motrin.

We would use, I used a lot of Myrapex for the back pain because in fact, the back pain of opiate withdrawal is actually restless leg. It's actually dopaminergic imbalance. And guess what? It goes away with Mirapex. and I would have a nurse that knows how to sort of manage these things with me

so we can sort of develop the protocol for that patient given his or her symptomatology. But these are a range of things. You have to be prepared to use them in fairly high doses. And you have to, again, if somebody knows what they're doing with them, has to be done in a hospital setting so you can safely administer and then taper these things down. And you want to keep an eye on that patient's, you know, urine to make sure he is not contributing with his own supply that they say, you know, they bring in in their vagina. They bring in with all kinds of stuff. You'd be surprised how

people are able to smuggle things in. It's remarkable what they're able to do. It's remarkable. And when family members, I saw family members bring stuff in, that was always the most shocking thing to me. Let's see, is there anything else? Did they follow with anything else, guys? Okay. But that's sort of, it's, some of it is an old-fashioned protocol, but guess what it works? And you have to know how to use these things properly. And you could just tape with the Suboxone. Because I was curious, too. But here's the thing about Suboxone.

Even when you get down to half milligram, when you go from half milligram to zero, you will have withdrawal. You just will. And the withdrawal goes about two weeks. And it's fairly unpleasant. Even when you're going from a low dose to nothing, if you're going from a high dose to nothing, it's terrible.

So you've got to get down to the low dose, which he is. Somebody said they wish they had gone cold turkey instead of using methadone. Yeah, methadone. Methadone is when you're really done. desperate for somebody. It can't be life-saving, but it's a life sentence. It's a prison sentence of sorts because it's extremely difficult to get off of it. When does Drew Medical Facility protocol open up around the country? I'm not prepared to be back in the business because it is, it's so crazy to me of what people accept and kind of, it just isn't properly structured,

but I would certainly be open to advising. It's what I did in San Francisco. I advised them. They now have some excellent protocols up there and they have a 22% reduction in homeless and they're getting people well and back into the workforce. And I admire and welcome. This happens all the time in the United States. People dying of this. But because it's a celebrity, we're brought attention to them. And she's like, why is it increasing? Why is there an epidemic?

I said, it's not increasing. In fact, we're doing a better job with overdoses with use of maltrexone and things. but Nelloxone, but it feels like it's increasing when you see these runs on it, but it is, the increase happened a long time ago and it's been staying the same ever since.

And the way we neglect these patients, in my humble opinion, is negligent manslaughter. So we need to do something to help them. And some of us know how to do it. Shelly knows how to do it. Bob knows how to do it. There are people who know how to do it.

She has, does she have a good medical facility attached to her organization? I don't know that she could handle something this complicated, but she certainly would know where to send somebody and who to send them to. I mean, maybe Lawson-Sina still does this? I don't know. I don't, I'm not prepared to to give advice on. Send a place unless I have active experience with them.

There are places to know how to do it. There are places. But also, can't you go to the emergency room in a case like this and get detoxed in a hospital setting? I don't know that the insurance would allow it. No, the insurance would say get them out pretty quick. Isn't that terrible? Like if you had cancer. And to find in an emergency room or even in acute medical hospital a team that would know how to manage something like this, you wouldn't find it.

So that's. It's really, it's a special skill set. But I mean, if they couldn't find the right place, who can? I mean, these people have. Well, remember, we don't know. He might have been in the right place and failed, relapsed or whatever, you know. It happens. Yeah.

It's part of the deal. And he may have started dictating the terms of treatment. No, but if he was taken at 10 p.m. and he was all wasted and then he died in the morning, like maybe it, where would you take somebody like this so they would live? That's a question I'm asking. Back in the day, it was his last in seen as when you were with Shelley and Bob there, obviously. I would go, there are places in Mississippi and Massachusetts and Utah. But not in the L.A. area. Not that I will, L.A. has some. I've heard some good things here and there, but not that I can reliably recommend. And so I, that's why, but they're around.

And so I don't, Shelly would know. So I would ask Shelley. But there are great places. And I, and I, maybe he was treated at one of those centers. You know, there's, it's Cirque Lodge in Utah. There is some of the Meadows program. There's a Meadows program here that's very good in Los Angeles. Oh, we're frozen again.

I'm going to wrap this up because I'm going too long. You're glitching. We will see you all. There it is. Lindy Lee, that would be very interesting. She's a turncoat. Mary Talley Bowden coming in. That'll be interesting.

She's got some ideas about the MRA vaccine. Here at Edelstein. Peter Navarro coming in. He's got a new book out, a side-by-side diary with Fauci's diary. Steve Kirsch, coming in with James Lindsay. Alex Jones is booked. Well, that's interesting.

I know. Okay. He wanted you on his show and we couldn't figure it out, and then we got him. Oh, that's... Maybe he was just trying to get on our show because it's so popular. Thank you guys for being here.

We will see you on... Thursday. And to the 23,000 people watching on X. Thank you for watching. We can't see your comments, but thank you so much for your viewership. We appreciate it. Come back again Thursday at 2 o'clock Pacific Time. We'll see you then.

Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. Emily Barsh is our content producer. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving, though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with

trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in an immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Purs. Prevention Lifeline at 800, 273, 8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at Dr.do.com slash help.