Ask Dr. Drew - Psychotherapist: Trump Derangement Syndrome Is Real & I’ve Seen TDS In My Own Practice w/ Jonathan Alpert + Martha Byrne & Mike McMahon (Ex-NYPD Cop Pardoned By Trump) – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 568

Episode Date: December 20, 2025

Dr. Drew & Susan learned about gold, silver & retirement with Augusta – now it’s your turn: ⁠https://drdrew.com/gold⁠ • Psychotherapist Jonathan Alpert says “Trump Derangement Syndrome��� is not in the DSM list of official mental illnesses – but he’s seen evidence of it in his own practice. Alpert says the symptoms are far more than simple political disagreement. He says they mirror anxiety and OCD, with a combination of intrusive thoughts, compulsive news consumption, and hyper-arousal when discussing Trump. He says TDS treatment should focus on restoring psychological distance rather than validating political fixation or identity-based fear. Actress Martha Byrne returns with her husband Mike McMahon, a former NYPD sergeant who was recently pardoned by President Trump and released from an 18-month prison sentence. Jonathan Alpert is a psychotherapist with over two decades of clinical experience. His upcoming book “Therapy Nation” is available now at https://amzn.to/4944Uo8 for preorder. Follow at https://x.com/JonathanAlpert⠀Martha Byrne is an Emmy-winning daytime television actress known for As the World Turns and General Hospital. She is the author of In the Interest of Justice, which documents her family’s legal battle following her husband’s federal conviction. Follow at https://x.com/marthabyrne10⠀Mike McMahon is a retired NYPD detective who earned 78 medals, including the Combat Cross. He served 18 months in federal prison before receiving a presidential pardon. 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 • AUGUSTA PRECIOUS METALS – Thousands of Americans are moving portions of their retirement into physical gold & silver. Learn more in this 3-minute report from our friends at Augusta Precious Metals: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/gold⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or text DREW to 35052 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • VSHREDMD – Formulated by Dr. Drew: The Science of Cellular Health + World-Class Training Programs, Premium Content, and 1-1 Training with Certified V Shred Coaches! More at https://drdrew.com/vshredmd • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and Susan Pinsky (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/firstladyoflov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠e⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer & Booking • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Hosted By • Dr. Drew Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/drdrew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today we get in deep on the Trump derangement syndrome with Jonathan Alpert psychotherapist. Trump derangement syndrome, not in the DSM, but everyone knows what we're talking about when we reference it. So we're going to talk about the ranges of effects and presentation and what's causing it. And then actress Martha Byrne returns. This time with her husband, Mike McBan, successfully pardoned by President Trump. He's a former NYPD sergeant who was convicted of spurious, redemptive. ridiculous spying, if you remember Martha's story. But we'll get into all that.

But first, we're going to talk deep on Trump's arrangement after this. Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopaths start this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for a sick. Where the hell you think I learned that?

I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveland all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. Do you have trouble? You can't stop and you want to help stop it.

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there it is therapy nation check that out we're going to talk about that and more Jonathan welcome to the program oh I lost his sound is that we muted on your end Jonathan maybe anybody

usually just the zoom link has a little mute microphone button there I think you're here I heard you I don't hear him. No, you're muted. I don't hear him.

We'll get to in just a second. Give him a chance to unmute. Refresh on Zoom. Or, well, if he refreshes, he's going to, we're going to lose him for a second, which is fine. I'll remind you on Martha Byrne, who's coming up in a second with her husband, Mike McMahon. They are on X. Martha Byr, B-Y-R-N-E-10. And Herbock book was, in the interest of justice. one woman's fight against a weaponized Justice

Department to save her husband. Jonathan, you're there? No, not yet. You want him, Caleb, do you want him to maybe reboot his Zoom? Yeah, it was. It was. It happens. There, we got you. We got you back. I don't know what

changed, but I got you. Blame it on TDS, well, way. There we go. Or someone with it is interfering here. But let me, let me start. I want to sort of systematically dig into this thing. So, Yes, the Trump derangement syndrome is not in the diagnostic manual, the DSM for or whatever the manual of the day is for diagnosing psychiatric and mental health conditions.

Now, to be in the DSM, you have to be diagnosed as an illness, a disease, not a syndrome. So already, anybody's saying because TDS is not in the DSM, we shouldn't be talking about it, that is a spurious consideration because a syndrome is a constellation of phenomenon that come together to create abnormality of behavior and thought and feelings. It's not a diagnosis. It is a syndrome. Would you agree with me on that? glad that you make that distinction and even though it's not a disorder and it probably never will be a disorder it's exactly what you said it's a collection of symptoms and that's what makes up a syndrome and i became very concerned about this probably going back to 2016 when president trump first won i had patients that would come to see me and they were so upset they were outraged and they told me that they were going to pack their bags and they told me that they were going to pack their back and leave the country and withdraw their investments, and they were panicked. And it settled down a little bit, but then it started up again with this most recent election in 2024. And we've seen it play out.

We've seen it on the streets of New York. We've seen it in Washington, D.C. And patient after patient, probably about three quarters of my patients, would bring up Trump within the first few minutes of a session. So to me, that's concerning. And if what I see in my practice is representative of what therapists might be seeing across the country, we do have to consider this as a significant issue. And I even went so far as to call it the defining pathology of our time, psychopathology.

And so let's kind of drill into what it is. What are the symptom complexes? And again, to be sort of relevant as a syndrome, it's got to affect functioning, right? Absolutely. Yeah. So what I was seeing, people were, they were, in fact, impaired. Their sleep was disturbed. Their work was disturbed. Relationships were ruined. Families were divided. Physically, they were a mess. They were developing. They are developing all sorts of GI issues, headaches, back aches, neck aches. So this was presenting, much like other mental health disorders that I see. And if I had to say it looked like any disorder, probably leaning a little more towards anxiety disorder or OCD. And what do you imagine within the syndrome are the conditions or the risk factor conditions for this? You've mentioned OCD and anxiety. My sense is there's access to stuff in there. And if that's true, so we used to do it by the axes. Axis, Axis 1 would be anxiety disorder,

or OCD, maybe mood disturbance, but Axis 2, to me, seems to be the more prominent feature, the personality disorders that are prone to developing TDS. Yeah, I do see some of the Axis 2 disorders coming into play. And what I see a lot of is almost like this victimhood mentality, and we have grievance culture that's developed over the past few years. We see it playing out with Luigi Mangione case and other cases. So definitely some access to, you know, whether that's a borderline or histrionic disorder, I'm not entirely sure, but have seen touches of this coming into play. So the really interesting thought I have, it's somewhat comical, but anxiety disorders and OCD in the current age are treated with exposure.

So do you expose these people to more Trump stuff? I mean, it's really interesting. Well, that's a very good point, and that's typically how I would treat someone with OCD or anxiety. I would try to expose them to whatever the trigger is, whether it's public speaking or anything like that. But in the case of Trump, my advice is the exact opposite. People need to get offline and need to stop burying themselves in everything, Trump, whether it's Instagram or TikTok, the trigger is found everywhere in these people's. lives. I even had a patient last year who she couldn't even take a vacation. She couldn't relax during a vacation because she just couldn't help herself. She would check Instagram.

She would check social media. She even checked truth social to see what Trump was up to. So your point is very well taken and people need to actually detach from social media and from the thing that's the trigger in this case. So it's interesting that it has paradoxical effects. So increased exposure in this condition makes the disorder worse. I wonder, does that tell us something about the disorder or about the people with the disorder? Well, and you just flashed the Rosie O'Donnell article there, and I believe her therapists actually advised her well and told her to try to disconnect from all things Trump and social. media. So good, good for that therapist, although it doesn't seem like Rosie was too successful

in that. So in a way, in a way, it needs like a 12-step program or something, because it's kind of more like an addiction than an OCD, that there's a spiritual problem here. There's a motivational disorder. Because I would predict if it was really OCD, all this exposure would make it better, but it makes it worse, much like addictions. And although we haven't seen 12-step programs, we have seen, I believe, in Washington, D.C. and Portland, Oregon, we've seen groups where people shout it out, they scream it out, they punch pillows to try to work out their hatred towards Trump. So, you know, if it works, great.

That seems bad. Exposure, I mean, these expressive therapies generally don't, don't, don't. do what they're supposed to do. They're very 1970s-esque, but there's a reason they were sort of used less over the years. And so I would say, nope, that's not going to do it. That's going to accelerate their aggression. And certainly if they go home and then look at their phone on the way home, that's not going to help it. So it's really, really, really interesting. Go ahead. It is. And I think that's part of what we saw with the No Kings protest. I'm in New York City. And after the most recent one, I was just walking around.

town and I was observing a heaping high pile of anti-Trump signs and a woman came up to me and she said, isn't this great? And I really didn't say too much. I just said, well, not really. I support the president. And she, I can't repeat on your show what she said to me, but it was filled with with curse words. And I would never shout profanity at a total stranger. You know, it's just recklessness. She doesn't know who I am. You know, she doesn't know if I have violent tendencies or not. I just kind of smiled and walked away. But it shows you how unhinged some of these people can be.

If you keep my addiction model going, though, you're interfering with her access to her drug, which is outrage and Trump, you know, hatred and all these things. She wants you to use drugs with her and you interfered with her supply. Great way to look at it. Yeah. I think she just assumed that because she's in New York, everyone around her must be anti-Trump or far-left. And that's certainly not the case. There are at least a few people who aren't.

So, yeah, no, I like your addiction model. Yeah. And so if that's true, and much like addiction, you know, when people are, this is interesting. God, this model keeps growing in my head. when people are in their addiction, they function as though they have an access to disorder. You know, like people look borderline or sociopathic, and also they can be those things also.

But everybody coming into treatment looks like that. So I'm wondering if the derangement syndrome deteriorates their character function. I'm seeing these echo chains. that they surround themselves with, whether it's online or within their friend groups. And I've seen one of the tragedies of this TDS is I've seen families broken apart. And as we find ourselves in the holiday season, I have patience talking to me about how they can't possibly visit their uncle because he supports Trump or people on the flip side. They're uncomfortable being around their progressive cousins.

So politics has really divided this country. And that's part of what my forthcoming book is about, just the division in our society. And, you know, I urge these patients to get back to a time when politics was not bigger than their personal relationships. But unfortunately, that's where we are. And people have made these character assessments about people just because of the way that they voted. And there are things that are so much more important than Joe Biden or Donald Trump or Kamala Harris. And I always tell my patients, that family and friendships should come way before politics. Unfortunately, they don't always listen to me. Right, of course. I'm going to keep my addiction model going for a

second, just since it's so gratifying. But, you know, like with addiction, the supply and the intensity of the delivery of the drug tends to affect the biological effects somewhat. So is, is social media the rig and is all the material that's brought to us by the really primarily the mainstream media? Is that the drug? Might be Mr. Trump

and social media may be the drug dealer, certainly the supplier of the drug. Yeah, yeah. We need a tronon for family members of Trump derangement patients. So So Trinad.

Okay. This is really interesting. And so do you, do you, go ahead. I was going to say maybe we need some sort of antibuse in people's water. Oh, yeah. I like that. I like that. Or some sort of Suboxone or Neltrexone or something.

I'm going to give that some thought. Or maybe it's actually an Ltrexone. Maybe that's actually what they need to take, that actual medicine, because it does block various addictions. but what do you tell people how do we deal with this what is uh what is the what are the solutions if they if any yeah people to look beyond politics and recognize if they have homicidal tendencies towards trump i try to get them to recognize that um you know you can hate this person you can disagree with with the president all you want but when you get to a point where

you actually have murderous thoughts or that you're disappointed that the assassin would be assassin missed or didn't have better aim, you really need to check that thinking. And this spans across demographics, white, black, everything in between. I have patients that are in their 20s and through their 70s that have expressed this to me. So this isn't a case of, oh, those annoying 20-somethings, they just have no clue about how the world works. It's affecting people of all ages. So really trying to get them to understand maybe some of the history of our country and put it in that context, they don't understand that if a

president or someone running for president is killed, the unrest that would follow that. So sometimes they listen to me and they make some changes and they adjust the way that they think. Other times they fire me. They recognize that I don't buy into some of their beliefs. and they're just looking for a therapist that validates how they feel and affirms how they feel and they fire me. They move on and they find a far left

therapist. Much like addicts, you know, when they people around them, confront them about their addiction, they're dismissed. They're sent away. And, you know, a gratifying therapist for these kinds of conditions

is not going to help that person. It's really a very very interesting thing. Say it again? Yeah, I was going to make another point that I can recall some patients after I appeared on Fox News. They were in disbelief. They said, but we like you, Jonathan. You've been so helpful. How can you possibly go on Fox? And that just goes to show you how fixated and how misled they are. And I don't know if it's the echo chambers or friends or social media that supports us, but they automatically assume that if someone goes on Fox, they must be evil, they must hate the world, or they must be a Nazi. Their thinking is flawed. So that's deeply

concerning. And I've even heard of cases where therapists refuse to treat someone just because they voted for Trump. And yeah. Yeah. That's what I want to get into in a second here. I want to get into the practitioner piece of this. And I also want to talk about, you know, the extent to which this really does become a thought disturbance. There's a real frank delusions in here, and that does happen. So we've got another segment with you, my friend. Jonathan Alpert is here.

He is staying with me. You get the book. Let's put that up there, Caleb Therapy Nation. And follow him on Jonathan Alpert.com and also on X at Jonathan Alpert. And we'll be right back. We got more to discuss in this very interesting topic. next year the national debt is going to hit 40 trillion dollars as insane as that sounds it's even worse when you consider unfunded liabilities for social security and medicare if our status

as the world's reserve currency suddenly changes our nation could collapse under the weight of its debt and as we all know there are many forces trying hard to take down that u.s dollar this is why thousands of Americans are moving portions of their retirement into physical gold and silver. Our friends at Augusta, precious metals have put together a three-minute report entitled Debt Will Hit $40 trillion in 2026. Prepare your retirement now. It details how a self-directed IRA with real physical assets may be the best option in 2025. Go to Dr.Doo.com slash gold.

That is, DRD-R-D-R-A-W.com slash G-O-L-L-D. or text Drew Deary W to 35052, that's 35052, and you'll get instant access to this crucial report. If you have $50,000 or more in your IRA 401k, TSP, or other retirement accounts, consider our friends at Augusta Precious Metals to give you the information you need to make an informed decision about your retirement. Find a fight for our nation's future, but we all need to protect our own futures first. read this important three-minute report by visiting dr drew.com slash gold that is d rderew.com slash g-o-l-d or text drew to three five zero five two and see what augusta can do for you i've spent most of my career dealing with illnesses that shorten life and now we have ways to extend it

and extend wellness i've been working with the team over at b shred to develop a product that has everything i want in a longevity supplement and our boost has nicotinamide ribicide you know a metal can rust. Well, your body behaves in a similar way. It's mediated through something called NAD. NAD falls as we age, so we're less able to fight off that oxidative process. We oxidize much like that metal. And NAD fights it, but nicotinamide riboside elevates NAD so we can push back on those oxidative stressors. Improving health, improving longevity. The other product is Cenosink, has ficin, one of the key molecules, to fight off zombie cells. And we've added resveratrol to that, which is a well-known anti-aging antioxidant again. I don't like supplements that have a ton of

ingredients. To me, it suggests that none of it's working. When I prescribe a medication, I prescribe that medicine because I expect that to work. That is exactly what I've done with these products. And I want you to go to Dr. Drew.com slash V-Shredd-M-D for 10% off. Again, that is Dr. Drew.com slash V-Shredd-M-D. That's brilliant. And thank you, Drew. Who's Dr. Drew? Where is he? Dr. Drew. Dr. Drew. Martha Byrne will be here in just a minute with her husband, Mike, a very relief situation there with him having been in prison for quite some time

and finally gotten part of him. We'll talk about that. But right now we're talking to Jonathan Alpert. Psychotherapist with 20 years plus of experience, he's written for the Wall Street Journal in New York Times, been on multiple news outlets, and now has been marked with the Scarlet Letter of Had Daring to go on a Fox News News. broadcast and daring

to talk about people's delusional preoccupations and their addiction to those preoccupations when it comes to President Trump. So tell us some stories you've heard about practitioners and how they too are making manifestations of their Trump arrangement.

No, we lost his mic again. with his it's uh it's something on on your end jonathan it's it's only catching like after you talk for a few seconds then it catches your mic for some reason make sure your mic's plugged in yeah it's weird uh maybe maybe recite the alphabet we'll tell you when we have you and because it was weird it'll lose the first like 15 seconds of whatever it is you're saying and then we'll suddenly pick up but this time it did not pick up at all so i'm hoping it done there you're are. You're coming. You're coming back. Wait, I heard his mic trying to get him.

Can you get okay? Yep, got you. Keep going. Keep going. No stop. Because it's going to the mic may go off. So, just saying that the response to that Wall Street Journal piece was pretty interesting. There were hundreds and hundreds of people who sent me

emails saying that they know someone in their family who deals with this or suffers from it. But then also, therapists from around the world sent me hate emails wishing me dead, wishing I die like Charlie Kirk calling me a pedophile protector. And that does speak to the practitioner, some of the practitioners out there, just how vicious they can be. And I've heard stories from from patients of mine who left their previous therapists. And I'll share one story of someone who saw me. He was seeing me solo. And he posted a picture, the iconic photo.

of Trump getting up after he was shot and his significant other notice that online and then they went to couples therapy and the couples therapist said, how can you possibly post that? Don't you know what that says about you? You need to go volunteer for the Harris campaign and really atone for this.

And what we have here is a therapist that's making someone feel like they have a disorder or that they're pathologic just because of the way they may vote in this case because he liked a certain photo and that speaks volumes to how our profession has drifted.

Yeah, I mean, that behavior is essentially that of North Korea or the Soviets. You know, this is how they and the Chinese Communist Party under Mao, they pathologize people that didn't agree with them.

The cultural revolution was exactly this. And some of that may be the result of capture of psychological training and education. The stories I'm hearing from within psychological sort of program, not all of them, and it seems to be getting a little better, but I've heard some really, really disturbing stories about essentially training clinicians that the source of all pathology

is the fact that you have a colonial past of a power imbalance where you and your people were victimized and all your symptomatology comes from that. understood that better you'd have relief some of the schools some of the schools actually i can't hear him is it coming through for you okay so some of the schools actually have uh students sign a pledge uh to adhere to this social justice program and you know they do fall follow the model of oppressed and oppressor. And that's what we have going out there.

And these people are not well trained to treat the bread and butter of our profession, depression, anxiety, relationship issues, stress. But they are trained to detect who might be oppressing or oppressed. Yeah. It's the oddest thing in the world to me, the notion that we are going to, I mean, at very minimum, show me some evidence that what they're doing is having a change in people's well-being and the outcome of treatment. Of course, there's no, that I'm aware of,

there's no data out there because no one would even attempt to use this. They're not going to study it much the way they don't study many of the things that just became dogma without any objective data. Yeah, my field is dominated by far left policy and ideology. And, you know, as a lone, uttered or conservative therapist, sometimes I do find myself with not a huge support system. But I will say there are some therapists out there who are like-minded and certain networking groups out there. And some of the stories that I've heard in these groups are just, they'll blow your mind. Therapists that refuse to treat patients because of the way they voted.

Georgetown University, I believe, granted a mental health day. the day after the election. I wonder if they would have done the same thing if Kamala Harris had won the election. My guess is they wouldn't have. Right. Now, for the other side. The open therapy group,

are you involved with them? I'm familiar with them, and I've had some contact with that group. Yeah, they're doing some good work. Yeah, so at least there are people out there that you can kind of associate yourself with us and get support from who see this problem. are trying to get it back to, look, mental health services, just like any other clinical

services, has to be based in evidenced objective data and it can't just be some sort of religious practice, you know, that's not what this is. And the notion that we allow that to sort of exist out there, I mean, the licensing body should be held accountable for all this. we need to get back to a time in the 80s if you remember when Reagan was shot Reagan said jokingly I hope you're all Republicans today to a surgence and they replied today Mr. President we're all Republicans and that's how we need to be we need to put humanity well well before politics or the way someone votes what do you just to sort of now speculate about this syndrome um what do you think it is about

trump because i keep wondering if there's something wrong with me much the way people tell you there's something wrong with you for for for going on fox i i is there something wrong with me that he doesn't evoke like when he when he reacted to the rob rider thing i was like oh come on like i i have dread and i have frustration sometimes but i don't i don't then i don't That's it, and then I'm done. I don't, and the rest of my day is not affected by it. What do you imagine it is that he's activating in people? Yeah.

Yeah, I think people have a certain expectation of how they think a president should conduct themselves. And countless times I've explained to patients, he's not your typical politician. He comes from the business world. He worked on TV for years, but people just have an expectation that someone is supposed to behave in a certain way. And, you know, he's entertaining for sure, and that's part of his schick and part of what probably allowed him to win the two elections. But people, they just have an idea, they have certain expectations, and those are unmet or mismatched, and it just throws them into this frenzy. And, you know, we've had presidents like this before. You know, people don't really realize it.

But, you know, Roosevelt was not very different than this. He was certainly more cultured in terms of how he presented all this. But he did the same stuff. He did a lot of the same stuff. Chester Arthur was a maniac. And he sort of ended up being a decent president. I, the point being, I really have a problem with people believing that that office requires a certain set of individual qualities that without which we have a bad president.

So, for instance, I have, remember back during his first presidency, the Yale professor, the Yale psychiatry professor that said that, what was it, she said that he was a psychopath or something or that he was dangerous, right? Remember this? There's a whole group of psychiatrists that I think got together to try to make a statement. Well, I had a chance to interview one of them, the Yale professor that published this thing, and I said, hey, what would you do with, you know, should this guy be present? Let me just paint a picture for you. He had severe obsessions. He was very OCD. Sometimes he would work for very long hours. Other times he'd have depressions. When he was a young man, his family, his friends would have to go on watch for weeks at a time, keeps sharp objects away from him. During later in life, he was walking down his kid in a wagon. He was in such a fugue depression. Wagon turned over. He walked three more miles with the kid back in the muddy street, way behind him. He had a horrible relationship with his wife, or at least it was cantankerous. Should this guy be president? I mean, he, and he,

and he had an obsession, people don't know this. He had an obsession that he had syphilis. He was completely preoccupied that he had syphilis and maintained a male relationship, a Pistolary relationship with a doctor from his hometown for many years after he was in elected office, which that doctor then put him on mercury to just to calm him down because mercury they thought at the time was a treatment for syphilis, even though it would do nothing except made people more depressed. So should that guy be president? I can't hear what you said, but I will tell you that I talked to that woman and she went absolutely not. That guy should not be president. And I said, well, you have just prevented Abraham Lincoln from

entering the office of the presidency. Well done. And then I went on to describe to her Teddy Roosevelt's craziness. He was severely hypomanic. And when he was police commissioner, he ran around a night by himself and pulled people out of bars and beat the crap out of them. And he was, you know, people could not have a meeting with him in his office. They had to go out and walk in the park because he couldn't sit still. He had to go walking. And he's severely narcissistic and all kinds of stuff going on. When you describe his psychological profile, people go, well, that guy shouldn't be present either. Well, that's Teddy Roosevelt. So what do we do with this sort of notion? What we rely on in this country is the wisdom of the crowd. We rely on the wisdom of the crowd to put the right

person into the office for the right moment. And I don't know, as someone who knows mental health pretty well. I don't know what that person should be. That's not what we're assessing. Some of the traits that you're describing actually allows it to become president. I would argue that touch of narcissists and hypomania is much needed to run for president. You're putting yourself in front of millions of people, the scrutiny of that, and you need to have really, really thick skin. In Trump's case, it's probably the thickest skin we've ever seen in a president. But it's how they protect themselves. You know, I've long said that Trump could cure cancer, and people would still find a reason to hate him.

So no matter what Trump does, he's always going to have his haters. I wish I could understand what that was better. But yes, that is absolutely true. By the same token, fighter pilots, I want them to be narcissistic alcoholics who aren't drinking. That's who I want to be in our fighter pilots. It's because they make tremendous, extreme situation tolerant and decision makers. And so, yeah, but I still am having trouble. There's something about it.

Maybe it is the fact that the people with the derangement are themselves narcissistic and they feel somehow shamed by the fact that they sense that his, what you call his thick skin is so thick that he couldn't they don't care he doesn't care about their BS he doesn't care about their delusions he doesn't care he they sort of instinctively know as narcissists that he wouldn't care even if they were in front of him I see couples and let's say I have the husband and he's just pretty stable during a fight he's not raising his voice but his spouse will get mad that he's not getting mad. He's not getting angry and he's not shouting. And that's partially, I think, what you're describing. Like, Trump is so steady and consistent with

his beliefs and what he said on the campaign trail is what he says now. And I think that angers people because it's not what we're used to seeing in our politicians. We're used to seeing a lot of wavering and people change in their minds. And he's like very, very steady and he works hard. And if only we could create a president, maybe we would take some of the, some of the characteristics of trade and maybe some of the charm of Reagan and friendliness of Bill Clinton. But, you know, we don't have that luxury to take bits and pieces of people. But what we do have is a democracy and a voting system. Yeah, and I think you're right. I think that the idea that politicians give you the –

the feeling like Newsom does this all the time and that's all he does that you're responding to the people and their concerns and they're this and they're that and Trump goes I don't give a shit here I'm going to make a decision here we go let's go and that and that feels invalidating or somehow like you know it shames people it's shame because they're not they're not held as special in in their the big daddy's eyes yeah to try to separate the policy from the personality, and they can't do it. They simply cannot get past some of what they would deem as obnoxious behavior. So Trump can have the most solid foreign policy or economic policy.

And I've actually had people who have benefited from some of his policies. They've put more money in their pocket, and they still find a reason to hate Trump. And that's maybe part of the syndrome that we're seeing, just this hyper-fixation. on hatred towards the figure towards the man. To be fair, I remember some of that from the other side in regards to Biden. There was a similar thing going on then, I think. So there may be something more global amongst our common psyche these days where we're getting gratification from the tribe so much so that we don't care what the other side provides

for us. Tell us about the book and what we will learn by reading it. Yeah. So the book is called Therapy Nation, and it comes out in May. And it really stemmed from an op-ed piece that I wrote in 2012 in the New York Times called In Therapy Forever Enough Already. And what it did, it called into question my profession. And I was just seeing therapists who were keeping people stuck in therapy forever. They weren't getting better. They would go in week after week, and they just weren't getting better. So that's really, that really served as the catalyst for, for therapy nations. So the book gets into how people are stuck in therapy. It talks about how therapeutic terms are weaponized. Everyone's running around calling their significant others borderline or bipolar or narcissists. So it really dispels a lot of those beliefs and teaches therapists in our society how to, how to be healthier.

Is it on pre-order now? Pardon me? Is it available by pre-order right now? Yes, it is. It's available on Amazon for pre-order. Great. And I just, one last comment I forgot to make when you were talking about what you were doing to try to help people with Trump arrangement. I heard you saying, I just want to put a little button on it, essentially getting them to think things all the way through, which is essentially CBT.

And, of course, CBT works for addictions. And so it's not surprising to me that some sort of CBT would be the answer for this syndrome. Yeah, that is one of the things that I do to help people make a distinction between rational thoughts and irrational thoughts. You know, when someone says to me, well, you know, Trump is a Nazi or he's rounding up the gaze and he's going to ship them off to some faraway island, you know, I ask these people where the evidence is. And, you know, Trump actually has a Jewish daughter and Jewish grandchildren. Yet they still believe that he's a Nazi, even though there's no proof of that. So really working through a lot of those irrational beliefs is what I try to do as a therapist. Jonathan, I appreciate it.

It's very interesting. Keep writing about it. We'll look for your work at Fox and the various big news outlets. They certainly need your input at the New York Times, Wall Street Journal. Well, I appreciate that, Dr. Drew. Thanks for having me on. You got it. Thank you very much.

Thank you. All right. Next up, we're going to hear a success story. Martha Byrne, who was an Emmy Award-winning daytime television actress from As the World Turns and General Hospital. And she is the author of Interest of Justice. Yes, and we'll talk to her about her battles and the success in getting her husband, Mike, NYPD detective, 78 medals, highly decorated, get him back out of jail. Believe it or not, after this. I'm excited to bring you a new product, a new supplement, fatty.

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And again, the book is In the Interest of Justice. One Woman's Fight Against a Weaponized Justice Department to save her husband. Martha and Mike join us now. Guys, welcome. Thank you, Dr. Drew. This is a much better discussion than the last time we spoke.

So this is a good news. Yeah, it is good news. Mike, nice to meet you. I'm going to have Martha describe what she led us through last time so people understand, at least, obviously, it took us a while to go through it last time,

like a truncated version of what happened to Mike. So Mike was a NYPD sergeant. He had 78 medals. He had an amazing career on the NYPD. He had a severe car accident on the job and retired and became a private investigator. It was part-time because I was working on the soap opera and he really enjoyed that job. He got a routine call from a New York-based company to do some background checks, very routine case, hired two NYPD detectives who were retired, did some surveillance background checks. This is 2016. Made a few thousand dollars never thought about it again and then four years later the fbi came to our house and arrested him for violating the foreign agents registration act for working for china and interstate stalking and he was a private investigator he committed no crime there was no evidence of any foreign government related connection at all none and yet the government doubled down on that and lied and and manufactured this case and we went to trial and he was found not guilty on count

one, which was the big count conspiracy to violate Fara, but guilty on Fara and interstate stalking. And he was given 18 months in federal prison. And that he went in in June of this past this year and then recently started. So it's been crazy. And that wasn't a so problem. That wasn't reality. I know. You got, you should send it to the writers at the soap opera. There's certain things that have been happening these days where I, where I think, no, no, no, too much. It's too much. No, it's too much. No one will believe it. It's too much for fiction. Yeah. So, Mike, when they showed up,

I'm curious what you thought and what you, these were essentially your peers, essentially, and they're federal agents, but what did you think and what did you say to them? I woke up to this pounding on my door. These agents surrounded my house, I couldn't believe it. I didn't think it was for me. I thought they made a mistake. So I opened the door and they said, Michael McMahon, you're under arrest. And I said, you know, I think you got the wrong guy.

I have no idea what you're talking about. And, you know, they put the handcuffs on me and went down to the booking area. And I just couldn't believe it. I thought it was a dream. And, you know, here we are five years later, still, you know, in shock. about what took place this should never have happened they made a huge mistake

this should never happen to any American what they did to me and my family was awful is there any are you contemplating I know Martha was you know really dedicated her life

to this thing given how they injured everybody in the process are there any remedies you guys are contemplating We just came back from D.C. Congressman Michael Lawler, who was our biggest champion,

he just went on the record publicly on a radio interview we did and talked about doing hearings and investigations into this case. And there's other members of Congress who are really dedicated to finding out what happened here. We're very fortunate that we have that support. We've had whistleblowers come forward, FBI, who want to help publicly. They've come forward. and there'll be more.

And, you know, if there's no accountability, we've said this a million times, it will continue to happen. Right. This is the scary part. Yeah, either arrested, lose their bar. You know, there needs to be some accountability. And that sends a message that you shouldn't be able to lie in court as a prosecutor and FBI agent and blatantly lie, make up stories and get away with it.

But they get a lot of protections. So at least if there's some remedy, but we will find it. trust me my mic i like she sort of scares me a little bit so i wouldn't want to be yeah at least you're here you're here um yeah that that scares me and uh you know what i read in the complaint scared me i couldn't believe what they were accusing i was telling these agents like you got the wrong guy this is not me i didn't witness this meeting at mall in New Jersey. They completely fabricated numerous things in the complaint. And they continued those lies all through the trial. And they were embellishing stories and inferring things happened to a jury.

They told a fairy tale to a jury. Murray bought it and they believed it. And they can on state stalking, stalking and a fire charge. And nobody could identify him in court. There were no victims. The victims asked for no jail time for Mike. They asked for no restitution and the judge still gave him 18 months. And you know, we spoke about this the last time is that the person that he was following was here illegally from Wuhan. He's a CCP official committed fraud, immigration fraud, money long. I mean, the government has known this about this man for years and they were helping him and they put the innocent man in prison. It's just, it's almost too much to even process, but it happened. I saw it happen. Yeah, they protected a CCP Wuhan official over me and my family.

It should never happen, and it did, and it's awful, and we need to change it. We need to, you know, change the way the FBI and DOJ works and how they think, you know, it's just an awful situation. And you've talked about being on the NYPD on that, if he'd done a case like this, if he would, if he would have done a case like this, there was no evidence, he would have been not only like for the, how in the police department he would have been fired you know yeah yeah i'm sure or been himself uh on trial for something for you know i would have been arrested but if they did everything the fbi agents did in my case i would have been arrested yeah so you say you know how they do things do you have a sense of how i this is not the first story like this i've heard how the intelligence organizations have gone so far is this

the layers of spies and protecting and spy versus spy and grift and I mean it's just it's just layers layers layers where finally they're starting to do things that are just insane yes yes I mean I we we know for a fact that there was evidence that the government knew Mike was innocent in 2017 but was able to get search warrants and spy on us and and and who signed off on that and why and this went all the way up to the highest intelligence department in the United States government. And why would they want to be looking at 10 years of our banking records? What are they looking for? Why did they set up an American citizen?

And, you know, they talk about the deep state. You know, this is this. There is a deep state. It is absolutely positively correct. And in the James, you know, the Comey and when, you know, FBI, head of the FBI, it's all coming out now that he was leaking things to the media. and tipping things off. Like, who are you working for?

You know, whose direction? I think, like, some James Comer, the Oversight Committee, and Jim Jordan, and, you know, they're starting to expose that to the American people so they understand. That's the first step, but it is absolutely true. I know, we were followed. You know, we were put in danger for some reason

that they didn't care about us. We were at collateral damage. So if Mike died in prison, they wouldn't have. Didn't care. and is that the country that we want to is that what we stand for now is that we go after heroes no no right i i agree with you wholeheartedly but but mike i noticed you you clammed up a little bit when i when i mentioned you know how the how these intelligence agencies operate now you so i use those are words that you used feel free not to answer my question if it's important not to

but how do you imagine they operate now what what is that that you that you have a sense of what needs to be corrected other than what Martha just pointed out? Yeah, basically, they need to be held accountable. They can't go and sign a criminal complaint indicating things happened that just didn't happen. You can't infer things. They need to have evidence. If I took that complaint to a Bronx DA or Manhattan DA, they would have said, you know,

you don't have enough evidence here. We can't prosecute this case. We can't. So as a detective, we had to have evidence in photographs and very, video and eyewitness testimony and show a DA. But it feels like our intelligence agency has been operating with a completely different or unhinged notion of justice and how the system should operate with serving some other God.

I don't know what that God is. Yeah. I agree with that. I think that these, when you talk about like FISA warrants, for instance, and you talk about back in 2016 that they were able to get judges to sign off on these intelligence spyware for

Americans, and it was never meant to be for Americans. So who is behind that? And I used it unhinged. It's such a great word, because they cover for each other. There's, there's, they, and we've noticed good guys in our case, the federal agents, the good guys, were

walled off from the bad guys and the agents, and they wouldn't communicate with the good guy. and there you go the bad cops love bad cops right it's very similar all the you mentioned this was a this was an immigration

circumstance has homeland security been involved with your attempt at restitution well they should be I mean I think when it comes to the actual person we were following we couldn't believe that he had violated you know they had evidence of immigration fraud and they never

is he still in this country is he still here you don't know we don't know anything we know We do know that after he testified at our trial, a $30 million civil lawsuit against him miraculously dropped and was impounded. And we were not allowed to ask him about that at trial. So there's something else going on here that was nefarious, but we don't know exactly what. What are the questions at trial? They asked him if he was getting any favors for testifying. And he said, oh, I don't know.

I don't know. Of course you know. Of course he knows. You know, there was definitely a quote quote. He was testifying so he could stay in this. country. But he wouldn't admit it on the stand. But he was getting favored in belief.

He was a high-ranking. Somebody else's. Mm-hmm. Right. Ugh. And then, do you know who Mike Benz is? Do you guys know Mike Benz? Not a name. I know his name. He's look him up on, look him up on Twitter, on X, B-E-N-Z.

He's really good at, he knows how to unravel. He calls it the blob, the the intelligence blob. And he's really good at unraveling where this stuff comes from and who's signed off on it. It's usually very, very high up. And although it usually has a rational sort of unfolding, the, I mean, it has a logical unfolding, but it has a irrational sense of ethics around it that are just bizarre, usually.

So I will definitely check. I will, I'm going to, Susan, Susan, see if Emily can get Mike Benz on this case because he's just, he'll do a whole expose on it on X and, you know, people love it. People love watching that stuff and it really exposes everything. Thank you. Thank you. That would be fantastic. We can't walk alone in this.

No, I know. Let's talk. Oh, there we go. Emily, producer, Emily, I know you're listening here. and I see you on the Rumble Rants. Or Baker, yes. She says, okay, so she's on it. So let's talk about something more positive.

How has it been since you've been out? What was it like being in? Did you learn anything in the process? It's just such a great relief to be out. Yeah, as a former law enforcement personnel, going into a federal prison is not an easy thing. My first day was awful. Everybody knew I was a cop.

I walked in. I just got surrounded. It was awful. I was in general population. I was with some pretty bad guys. A lot of gang guys, a lot of drug guys, some murderers. So I couldn't believe I was in that position. I was scheduled to go to a low, low security camp. But they sent me to a low security federal prison. Shocking. Food, food terrible. The environment was terrible. I did lose 30 pounds. So thankful for the. Congratulations. Prisons for their diet. Always look on the bright side of life.

If they say it's meat and roast beef, it's not beef and roast beef. So that's what. Any people watching, if you're in prison, don't eat the meat. It's not, it's not real meat. So it's an eye-opening experience for a lot of people in there need help. it's just it's an eye-opening experience and I wouldn't recommend it

no and you know we didn't have a lot of communication because of his he was considered a stalker you know and then the federal prison so we couldn't have no visitors no emails emails so I would talk to him and then not hear from him for like

days and days and not know what happened to him and hear people screaming in the background and and you know not knowing if he was safe and it was horrifying I'd hang out the phone and just stand in the kitchen going, I don't, I hope he's okay. Drug use going on. There was drone drops.

You heard about this recently in the news. Where I was in Milan, Michigan, there were drone drops of narcotics, drugs, cell phones. And everything got into the prison. These guys were on cell phones and doing drugs and marijuana and cigarettes. It was just an I-O experience. So we, fortunately, fortunately, because of Congress members intervened, and he should have been in home, near home.

So we got him to Newark, to a halfway house. Which wasn't any better. I walked into that halfway house. I said, oh, my God, send me back to the prison. That was just a... The mental health is just as bad there. Well, there's that huge penitentiary by the new... There's that big penitentiary with the razor wire by the Newark Airport.

Was that the camp you were in? No, nearby, but not that one. No, he was locked in, you know, and we couldn't see him for at least 10 days. He was on, you know, they leave him inside. He couldn't go outside at all there. And so here I am, you know, and I hear the pardon process. We're trying to get it through. You know, Michael Lawler would call me and say, I'm fighting for him.

And I really, I really want the president to give him a full and unconditional pardon. And, you know, when a congressman calls you at 10.30 at night and he cares that much, I knew something was going to happen eventually. And sure enough, three weeks in, and Mike Lawler calls and says, is Mike standing next to you? I said, no, he goes, get him on the phone. So I try to patch him in. He doesn't answer. He's at the halfway house.

And I didn't want to know. I knew something was good. And then I finally got him on the phone and patched him in. And I had got to listen to Michael Lawler. Yeah, Mike Loller said, hey, Mike, congratulations. I just spoke to President Trump. he gave you a full, an unconditional pardon. Wow, amazing.

He was emotional. It was, um, it felt like a dream. And, uh, I'm glad it was reality. And I was able to leave the next one. You were, you were, a dream on both ends, right? A dream when it happened and a dream at the end, both were sort of unbelievable circumstance. You know, it seems to me it was the, the object of your investigation that got the, got you into the trouble.

But did anybody suggest or did you imagine there was something about you that they were going after? I don't know. We still haven't figured that out. I did a lot of cases. I did a lot of cases for politicians and billionaires and so I did some high profile private investigation cases. Is it possible? My name came up on their radar on other cases? Yes. I'm sure. I'm sure. sure it didn't. I just wish they wouldn't hold me or me and protected me and my family and they just never even spoke to me. But they spoke to CCP agents. They spoke to Chinese agents for several years and not me and not two of the NYPD detectives I work with on this case and not two of the federal agents I spoke to door in my case. Yeah, they never spoke to them. It's like now we're learning all these police stations and the spy balloons and the properties. It's like could you imagine if they brought these three NYPD detectives in in 2016 and worked with them and what we

would have learned in 2016. But, you know, a lot of ego involved in the FBI. You know, a lot of ego is my case. It's my case. But that's hurting the American people. We are family in danger. And, you know, there's this, there's a lot of head shaking like, what happened here? And I notified the local police five separate times for the five days I did surveillance. The local police, I'd let them know. I was with two other NYPD guys give our names, phone numbers, plate, plate numbers, vehicle identification numbers, everything.

So how can you use... It's still, they said, oh, you notified the local police so you can commit crimes. And it was just... Which is wild. We'll call that to a jury. Wow. Wild. It is. You couldn't...

If you didn't sit through... If someone, you should sit through a federal trial, if you ever have some time and could you can't believe what goes on. And here in particular, that nobody in the media ever covered the truth of this case for five years. It was almost impossible to any media. And so I, you know, had to go out and start speaking publicly because I was the only one actually covering it for my family to, and I think it got the attention of a lot of people in Congress. And, you know, we had the Pipe Hitter Foundation came on board, which is a great foundation from first responders and to help them. And so, listen,

And this is a terrible, terrible injustice, but it's more about who's protecting us and who is really fighting for what's right in this country. These prosecutors get away with it and build their careers on the backs of people like us. And then they go on with their big problems. And we're left here with millions of dollars in debt for our lawyer fees and they don't care about us.

You know, it's a mess, you know. I wish it was a one and a story, but you hear them all the time, and that this is the tactics, you know. That should be your next book, you know, a collection of stories that people have been through something like this. But I look forward to seeing what Mike Benz can unravel with this. I'll lean on him a little bit.

Also, I'm blanking on Naomi's husband's name. Brian O'Shea, what about Tom Wrenz? Tom Renn. Maybe. Brian O'Shea, I think, might be able to. But hey, we'll put some whatever we got. Is the media picking it up now? Are they interested in it? Are they, you know, since there are two of you to go out and do it?

No, weird. Really? Like, I, it was like, nobody wanted to talk to him after his part. And I think it's because it makes Donald Trump look good. Yeah, and it makes him look like he did the right thing, which he did, and puts him in a positive light because Mike was investigated under Trump 1 from his, Trump's DOJ. And yet he parted him in a second.

But everybody's like, well, Trump put your husband in prison. No, no. The people that went after our family were the same ones that went after Donald. Trump in first term. But Donald Trump could have just walked away and not touched this case. It's about China. It's too messy. And he absolutely was said, this guy is innocent. This case is ridiculous. And I think the word was the Biden DOJ did it to me too, something in that respect. And he did the right thing. And it made him look good. So we got really no media coverage of it. But they sure are out saying, you know, going after his other pardons and they want to

get rid of the pardon now and because it's Trump. I mean, it's really, talk about Trump derangement syndrome. You know, it's so many who has the worst of it is the media, truly. Oh, for sure, for sure. Well, I appreciate you guys joining us today and congratulations, Mike. And I hope you have some traction in raising awareness of this because if, as you said, both in getting sort of, what should call it, justice or some sort of consequence of this can't happen to more people and raise it. awareness about your case and others because people need to understand what happened here. This is a weird period of history.

But thank you both for joining us. And Martha, thank you again for coming back. Thank you. You're great, Dr. Drew. Thank you so much for the support. You are amazing. I've always been a fan of yours and we greatly appreciate it. The opportunity to talk to you and tell us.

Thank you so much. Our privilege. God bless and Merry Christmas. Clip it and send it out. People aren't listening to it. Clip this and send it out wherever you. want and then tag me and I'll retweet it kind of thing. So try to

push out what, you know, what you think was important here and raise awareness. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Good, Drew. Do the best. Thank you. God bless. Right. Happy holidays. You bet. All right. What's coming up here? We are at Wednesday, right?

Or is this now Thursday? I'm so confused about the, yeah, this is Wednesday. Thursday. Tomorrow, Raw, Ignatialist, Olivia Emmons. Shane Cashman, Emily Hagan, coming back. Alex Marlo back. Salt and Crack. returns in February.

We got, believe me, plenty more stuff on the docket getting slowly coming together, but it's holiday time so people are working on their schedules. Our next show is on my birthday. No, next show is tomorrow at 2 o'clock. And then the next show.

I know I had the same problem. And the next show, Monday, I know this week, it's been a weird week. I'm sick and stuff. Next week, Monday, we're doing 2 o'clock. Is that right?

The 22nd? It says the 23rd there, Caleb. No, Caleb, you keep forgetting. It's going to be the 22nd. It's, that's wrong. It's going to be the 22nd. No, it's Monday. Monday they're 22nd.

My birthday. We're doing it a little early because of the holidays. A little cake next to it. And my birthday. Oh, that's really funny. And here we go. I know. I work on my birthday.

What's that, Caleb? We're back to our old habits again, fixing the schedule at the end of the show. Yeah. Well, we're calling you out this time, okay? You've been too busy for us with all those damn babies and Christmas and Santa C. All right, everybody. We'll see you tomorrow at 2 o'clock. See you then. Atah. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. Emily Barsh is our content producer. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only.

I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in an immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicidal. Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255.

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