Ask Dr. Drew - Rob Henderson: Elites Support Ideas Like “Defund The Police” Because They Don’t Suffer The Consequences Of Their “Luxury Beliefs” – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 327

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

“Rob Henderson’s story is breathtaking,” writes Dr. Drew about the new book Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class. “It is time to sit up and listen to the voices of those who have suffered because of the policies of the highly educated and affluent class that validates and affirms the behaviors and attitudes of marginalized children that they would never accept for themselves or their own children.” Rob Henderson is the author of “Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class”. Once described as “self-made” by the New York Times, he grew up in foster homes in California, served in the US Air Force, and received a BS from Yale and a PhD in psychology from the University of Cambridge, where he studied as a Gates Cambridge scholar. In addition to his popular Substack newsletter, Rob’s writing has appeared in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and the Boston Globe, among other outlets. Follow Rob at https://x.com/RobKHenderson and learn more at https://www.robkhenderson.com, and get his book “Troubled” in stores now. 「 SPONSORED BY 」 Find out more about the companies that make this show possible and get special discounts on amazing products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors • PET CLUB 24/7 - Give your pet's body the natural support it deserves! No fillers. No GMOs. No preservatives. Made in the USA. Save 15% at https://drdrew.com/petclub247 • COZY EARTH - Susan and Drew love Cozy Earth's sheets & clothing made with super-soft viscose from bamboo! Use code DREW for a huge discount at https://drdrew.com/cozy • PROVIA - Dreading premature hair thinning or hair loss? Provia uses a safe, natural ingredient (Procapil) to effectively target the three main causes of premature hair thinning and hair loss. Susan loves it! Get an extra discount at https://proviahair.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician with over 35 years of national radio, NYT bestselling books, and countless TV shows bearing his name. He's known for Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Teen Mom OG (MTV), The Masked Singer (FOX), multiple hit podcasts, and the iconic Loveline radio show. Dr. Drew Pinsky received his undergraduate degree from Amherst College and his M.D. from the University of Southern California, School of Medicine. Read more at https://drdrew.com/about Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

and today we have rob henderson joining us rob of course the sociologist uh he is in cambridge i believe now i always want to say oxford he's in cambridge uh social psychologist rather who has an extraordinary story and extraordinary book the book is called troubled i loved every second of reading it i recommend it most strongly uh i was privileged to be on the cover of this book uh there it is. That is my one of the, I said a lot of things about it because I could go on and on and on. And I called him after I read it

and I just let him know this was really something. And he will talk about it today. He's got lots of things to talk about, including at his website, robkhenderson, H-E-N-D-E-R-S-O-N.com. Follow him, Rob K. Henderson, on Twitter and Instagram. And we'll bring rob right in after this our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre the

psychopath started this right he was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography ptsd love addiction fentanyl and heroin ridiculous i'm a doctor for say where the hell you think i learned that i'm just saying you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat.

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That is Genucel.com slash Drew. G-E-N-U-C-E-L.com slash D-R-E-W. As I said, Rob Henderson joining me in just a few minutes. And after I talk to Rob, we're going to talk about, well, we're going to be reunited with my old friend, Christina Ferrari, who has a new product she is interested in telling you about, which is very, very, very interesting. It's our first time diving into pet products, which my dog, if you see his nose pop up here, is driving me crazy for more of this stuff. Am I overstating it? He is like driving me nuts. He was doing it the whole time before the show started. You could just hear, I had to like test the mics.

I'm like, that dog is over there. He wants more. He's right here. You'll hear his little claws. So anyway, Rob Henderson, the book is Troubled. I mean, give him a full screen there, Caleb. You can follow Rob, robkhenderson.com, robkhenderson on Twitter and Instagram.

He is an amazing, I order you to follow him. You can follow Rob, robkhenderson.com, Rob K. Henderson on Twitter and Instagram. I order you to follow him. He is full of great information. He is a voracious reader on these topics, and he shares some of the insights literally in the books. He'll underline stuff, take a picture of it, put it up on Instagram, and I've learned a lot from following him. Please welcome Rob Henderson. Hey, Dr hey dr drew great to be here good to see you my friend so i i know you've been on the show before you've sort of told your story but let's kind of because it's so specific to the book in particular give them a brief encapsulation of your history and how it's reflected in the book and why you wanted to write the book. And one added thing is like what you're doing now. So go

ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the book covers essentially the first 32 years of my life, but with all of the boring parts taken out, The book covers my experiences in foster care. I was born into poverty. My mother was addicted to drugs. I never knew my father. And in fact, I think I just learned this piece of information. I don't know if we discussed this the last time I spoke with you, but I took this genetic ancestry test last year. It was a 23andMe. And discovered that my father was Hispanic with ancestry from Mexico and Spain. And I never knew this in my whole entire life, my adult life, not knowing this about myself because I'd never known my dad. And so three years old, I'm taken from my mother, put into the foster care system in LA, spent the next several years bouncing in and out of foster

homes. Eventually, I was adopted by this kind of working class family. We settled in this dusty town in Northern California called Red Bluff, really low income area located in one of the poorest counties in the state. A lot of drugs. This was in the late 90s. So the opioid crisis was just starting to take off. And, you know, it was interesting. I kind of got a front row seat to witness the deterioration of a lot of working class and lower middle class communities. It was a broader pattern that was going on. And I got to see it firsthand in this part of California. My adoptive parents divorced shortly after adopting me. There was a lot of family drama. My adoptive

father stopped speaking with me. A lot of financial catastrophes and emotional hardship. My mother raised me for a time. She was a single mother. She fell in love with a woman. They separated, you know, on and on like this. And by the time I was 17 years old, barely graduated high school, and I knew that I was on a very bad path. I was looking at the outcomes of guys who were a little older than me. I had two jobs in high school. I worked as a dishwasher at a restaurant and then I was a bag boy at a grocery store. And I would see the guys in their early mid-20s, see where their lives were headed, and I realized I didn't want to live like that. I saw my friends and, you know, the direction their lives were taking and kind of on a half impulsive whim enlisted in the air force, got out of there. And, you know, that was a sort of on my

way to a different, a different path in life, sort of turned, started, slowly started to turn things around for me. There were some hiccups and some missteps along the way, but I was in the Air Force for eight years, stationed overseas. And then from there, managed to get into Yale on the GI Bill, studied psychology, worked as a research assistant out at Stanford for a while, and then managed to get a PhD at Cambridge, finished up a little over a year ago, my PhD. And yeah, now I mean, most of my work is on Substack. I'm an independent writer, but I'll occasionally contribute to other outlets. I had a piece recently in the Boston Globe, defending the importance of the SAT and standardized testing, which Yale and a lot of other elite institutions are eager to ditch.

Some of them are slowly coming to their senses. I read recently that Dartmouth reversed that decision, and they're starting to use the SAT again. MIT brought back the SAT. But it was a real mistake to eliminate standardized testing. It's a luxury belief, which we can talk about later. And so that's my main thing, promoting the book, doing some independent writing, and occasionally contributing's, that's my, my main thing, promoting the book, doing some independent writing and occasionally contributing, uh, to other outlets as well.

Uh, and kind of unearth these insights that I've, I've read about, uh, as a psychology researcher. Are you in academia now? I, you know, there's, that's, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's ambiguous. I have this affiliation with the new university of Austin out in Texas, this fledgling startup university. I'm a, what do they call it? They gave us a title of founding faculty fellow out there. So I teach in the summers and I'm helping to sort of shape the curriculum and give my input.

But I'm not attached to any sort of legacy institution. I saw, and I documented this in the book, some of the just surreal moments of the political correctness and the dogma that has overtaken so many of the universities. And I saw it at Yale, I saw it again at Cambridge. And then privately, I have friends who are in academia, postdocs and early career researchers. And you either have to be very careful with what you say and color within the lines, or you have to leave. I mean, that's pretty much what it is. And I decided to take the path outside of academia and communicate my message through these other platforms. Are you still living in the UK?

Yeah, yeah. I'm in Cambridge now on a visa, living out there. But I'm back and forth between the US and the UK all the time. I'll do some book promo stuff soon out in the UK. I'm speaking at the Oxford Literary Festival. I'm arranging to deliver a lecture at the University of Cambridge based on some of the topics in my book.

So, you know, I got a PhD for a reason. I like this stuff. I am kind of a nerd at heart in some ways. I talk about that in the book. You know, I always loved reading and learning. I listened to Loveline back in the day, Dr. Drew. And of course, I always loved the comedy part of it and all of the interesting and crazy wild stories from the callers. But I always loved the part too where you would communicate with the listeners and sort of speak from

an area of expertise. And that always appealed to me too, of just having research and science-based knowledge. And so even though i'm not in academia i'm still you know have have a have a foot in and have a foot out and so we talked to i never thought of this but we talked to a lot of the kinds of people that you chronicle in this book right as? As you say, it's the deterioration of these working class families, the abandonment, the abuse, the chaos. I mean, that was on in the 70s and 80s. Was it strictly an economic thing driving that?

It felt like something of a lot more than just that, frankly. Yeah, I do think there was something in addition to the economic piece. I mean, that's part of it. But one of the statistics I cite in the book, in the preface, is that in the US in 1960, 95% of children born in the US, regardless of socioeconomic status, were raised by both of their birth parents. This was 1960. And then if you fast forward to 2005, for the upper class, for people who were raised by college educated parents who have white collar

jobs in safe neighborhoods, it dropped slightly from 95% in 1960 to 85% in 2005. But for the working class, for people who have parents who didn't go to college, more blue-collar jobs, slightly more kind of economically impoverished, it dropped from 95% in 1960 to 30% in 2005. And so this is a massive disparity that occurred over the ensuing decades post-1960. And there were poor people 60 years ago, too. And yet they still had families and intact marriages. And so to me, this suggests there is something else going on, an issue of culture, of values, of role models, of the message that young people receive from the culture. And I cite research as well in the book indicating that it's not just poverty that contributes to detrimental outcomes for kids. So, you know,

this is a consistent finding in developmental research, evolutionary psychology research, that the link between childhood poverty and detrimental outcomes in adulthood, things like likelihood of incarceration, risky behaviors, substance abuse, teen pregnancy, the link between childhood poverty and those outcomes, it's kind of tenuous. Some findings show a small correlation, some there's none at all. But the link between childhood instability and those detrimental outcomes, there's a strong and reliable statistical relationship there. And

childhood instability is measured with variables like the question in these scales, they ask people the extent to which they experienced things like how many different homes they lived in growing up, frequent relocations. Were you raised by two parents? Were you raised by a single parent? How many divorces did you experience as a kid? How many different romantic partners did your single parent that you were living with have in the home? And essentially, how much day-to-day chaos

and disorder was there in your day-to-day life. I took this childhood instability scale and unsurprisingly, probably any foster kid who takes a scale like that, they're going to score well into the top 1%. I scored in the top 1% because I essentially maxed out on every question. How many times were we relocated? Was there divorce? How many different partners? And so on. It was like, nine out of 10, 10 out of 10, whatever. And so that relationship there to me suggests that there is something beyond just economics alone. And when these researchers control for socioeconomic status, they still find a link between instability and detrimental outcomes in adulthood. And by the time I got to college, I met people like this, people who had come from relative material affluence. It's rare, but it does occur that people who do come from sort of more well-to-do backgrounds,

but there may be alcoholism or addiction or divorce, or, you know, there's some family drama and they ship the kid off to a boarding school. And so the kid doesn't really have a lot of safety and security. A lot of those kids will end up having difficulty as well, despite growing up, you know, well off and affluent. And so it really is, there's this family piece, the safety piece, the emotional security piece that we often overlook, and we retreat to these discussions of poverty and inequality. Because I think oftentimes, people don't want to encroach into the territory of values, you know, it makes people feel judgmental if they start talking about family and parents, and it feels safe to talk about money and poverty.

But I hope with this book and some of the writing and other findings that I discuss, that we can talk a little bit more about, actually kids need something beyond just material sustenance alone in order to flourish and to thrive. And this was something that I learned the hard way when I was growing up. And by the time I enlisted in the military and so on, it was something that I had to slowly and gradually pick up on my own and piece together. You told me the military really saved you, but then it was your smarts that kept going the uh you know this was a good way i think to back into the luxury beliefs you're really describing an elite who behaves in one way because they think it's important and it's the way to raise healthy children this elite sits up on high and does what it thinks is right but tells the non-elites no no, no, no, no, you should

do it a different way. And if you do do it a different way, we're going to put policies and a culture in place that supports whatever it is you want to do, even though we wouldn't dare do it ourselves. Isn't that the basis of luxury beliefs? Yeah, there is this element of duplicity. Some of it, I think, is conscious. I think a lot of it is born out from good intentions, but it has these catastrophic consequences for people who aren't in an environment of abundance where you can make a series of mistakes in your life and there will be sort of nets around you and you have a lot of cultural and social capital. And so luxury beliefs are ideas and opinions that confer status on the affluent

while often inflicting costs on the lower classes. And a core feature of a luxury belief is that the believer is sheltered from the consequences of his or her belief. And so one way to think about this is, I don't know who originally coined this phrase of, you know, the luxury belief class, they walk the 50s and talk the 60s. You know, they behave in one way, they'll get married and live in a safe, low crime area and teach their kids the value of hard work and determination and grit and studying and those

kinds of things. But then publicly, they'll say, you know, marriage is outdated. It's passe. I had these conversations with graduates of Yale and other elite universities where they'll say, like, you know, why are we talking about marriage? Why do people talk like, are we still living in the 1950s? Like, why do people care so much about monogamy? Isn't it outdated? Like we should evolve as a society beyond this weird patriarchal institution. But then I would ask them, well, how were you raised? And how did you grow up? And every single time without fail, they were raised by both of their parents. And then when I would ask them about how they plan to raise their own kids, they would say, yeah, you know, I was kind of raised in that conventional family structure and I'll probably do it for my kids.

But I do think like as a society, we need to find a way to move beyond it. And so what I heard when they would say this was I benefited from this age old institution. And that led me to study at a place like Yale. And I plan to carry this benefit forward for my own children. But then my official public position is that you shouldn't do this thing that was clearly advantageous for me and that I plan to supply for my own family. And there are other cases like this as well of the defund the police movement. But to go back to the marriage question, these aren't just anecdotes. There is interesting survey data that people with college degrees are the most likely to say that two-parent

families are unimportant. 75% of college graduates say two-parent families are unimportant for raising kids, the vast majority. So that's what they say. But if you look at what they do… Where are they getting that idea from? Anybody who actually works with kids knows it's not so. I mean, anyone who's ever done any psychology work, you know immediately that's not so. Where do they get these ideas from?

Well, I think it's through media, through pop culture, through conversations. It sounds sophisticated. I mean, this is one piece of the luxury beliefs idea is that because it's so embedded within conventional wisdom and common sense that, yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, our grandparents understood. They didn't have to read a research paper to understand. You had two parent families. It's probably a good idea.

But the way that you stand out and distinguish yourself is taking an oppositional position to conventional wisdom that, oh, well, the masses believe this thing that they call common sense. Well, the way for me to demonstrate my sophistication and my expensive degree and my unusual insights is to say, actually, two-parent families aren't important, and kids can flourish in every single home and environment. And it's really just sort of this reductive materialism of, you know, there was this study that came out a few years ago. Brad Wilcox, really interesting sociologist, was an author on this, where they found that if you wanted to

equalize educational and occupational outcomes for kids raised in single-parent homes versus two-parent homes, if you want them to have the same rates of graduation and earnings and so on, it would require a transfer of roughly $58,000 to two single-parent homes. And if you gave them $58,000 a year from birth to age 18, that this would equalize the outcomes. And that's like a very sort of narrow way of thinking about child rearing, I think. Because one way to think about this is if you just go up to a kid and say, hey, you know, a kid raised by two parents and tell them, we're going to take your dad away, but it's okay because we're going to give your mom $58,000 a year, but you're never going to

see your dad again. You know, will you take that deal? No kid is going to say yes to that, right? That child is shattered by that deal no kid is going to say yes to that right like that child would be that child is shattered is shattered by that deal exactly everyone knows this everyone who works with kids knows this and everyone works in psychology knows can they recover yes they can recover are they resilient yes but it puts them at grave risk that is adverse childhood experience numero uno and then there'll be more from all they need is two more and their risk of mental health disorders goes through the roof and it's pretty easy to get two more when poor mom is struggling on her own to to make a go yes yeah and i i saw that uh you know i'd mentioned my adoptive parents separated and my adoptive father stopped speaking with me uh and so i was raised for a time by a single mom and she was working full time

and she was doing the best she could. And most single moms are doing the best they can, but just, you know, it's just mathematically one person has less time and attention and resources than two parents. And so naturally. And by the way, you're, you're, you're, what's interesting, Rob, is also, I thought I was thinking about this the other day, you were not saying that there has to be a man and a woman and they have to stay together. Because the woman your mom was involved with, you described to me as somebody that was a great relief to you.

You liked her a lot. She was a great relief to have more manpower, another person there, male or female. And she had some, I'm going to say it publicly the way you describe it in the book, some sort of personality disorder traits and stuff that made things a little chaotic, but you still liked her and she was still very effective. Yeah, yeah, that's right. So shortly after the divorce and it was raised by a single mom, but my mom, adoptive mom, fell in love with a woman named Shelly. We talk about her in the book and together they raised me through my adolescence.

And yeah, it's two parents. Yes, it's two moms. It's not a mother and father kind of thing. But together, they had twice as much time and attention and resources. Yeah. Stability. Yeah, it was interesting. I mean, yes, it was two women,

but they ran the home as if it were kind of a conventional family where we had family dinners. They would monitor me, hey, how's homework going? How's school going? Checking in on my grades and all of those kinds of things that even if kids rebel and push back against it, it was nice to have those boundaries. And it's funny, it was two women. I've written about this some of my Substack posts where there was one point where, uh, you know, we were financially struggling and we had to, um, uh, there was a period where I would stack firewood and we would have this fireplace. And that was, that was the source of heat in the home. Once we learned that

that was less expensive than central heating. And this was Red Bluff, California, the winters could get, you know, down into the low thirties, which for Californians, that can be pretty frosty weather. And I argued with them about this chore because they wanted me to wake up at 530 in the morning to start this little fire in the fireplace so that when they woke up for work by 637 o'clock, the house would be warm and they could be comfortable as they prepared for their workday. And I argued with them. I was 13 years old and I would say, this is ridiculous. You want me to wake up at 530? And my mom and Shelly sat me down, these two older middle-aged women. Neither one, well, Shelly did go to college, but she went to night school. It was

kind of a different thing. My mom didn't go to college, just working class parents, these two women. And they said, like, Rob, you're the man of the house. You know, you're, Shelley said, you know, your mom and I, we work hard to pay the bills. And you're the guy and you know, you have to contribute, you have to help with the household now you're getting older. And once they told me that, you know, that that term man of the house, you know, I was just weirdly flattering to my 13 year old brain. And I thought, okay, you know, it now it's not this imposition of, oh, I got to wake up at 5.30. It's like, I'm helping my family. And that was a sort of a reframe that helped me. And little lessons like that, they were really helpful to have those two parents around and to watch out for me and imparted little lessons and little reframes like that.

And I carried that forward with me later on. Talk about that memory in the book. And so, yeah, it's not just about a mother and a father. It's just two adults who have the child's best interest in mind and put their needs before their own. And I was just thinking about the luxury beliefs and how you describe particular people at Yale or these people who come up with these against the conventional wisdom notions that we have figured it out.

That is one of the scariest terms I ever hear in humanities, particularly. And the other was society needs to move beyond. beyond those are two extraordinarily destructive and scary things that if you look at the sweep of history when people say those things horrible things happen to people and i can't think of a single instance in history where that's not the case whether it is lenin who thought he knew best we figured it out with the you, we need to move beyond, this is the new world, or Marx, or whether it is the Jacobins, or the Sankulat, or whether it is the Oliver Cromwell, for God's sakes.

There's always these trends that come along in human history and in societies that are catastrophic when people move away, not just from conventional wisdom, really. It's from the foundational behavioral preferences of the structure of society throughout human history. And we've done this again and again. And it doesn't end well. And we seem to be in a huge trend of that right now.

Are you familiar with John Rawls, the philosopher? Oh, yeah, yeah, the veil of ignorance. Yeah, I blame him for some of this stuff. He is the darling of people that come up with these horrible ideas. But I got to take a little break. But I want to get into, if you don't mind, a little philosophy and sort of talk gotta take a little break but i want to get into if you don't mind a little philosophy and sort of let's talk about that a little bit some ideas about why it's happening where is this going to go why does it keep happening in history why don't humans

learn that that there are certain embedded wisdoms not that you shouldn't have options you should do what you want that That's not my point at all. But to declare that certain things are dead, society has moved beyond, it's, you know, what's the other thing you said? We figured it out. Oh, you figured it out? You're a 22-year-old college student. You figured it out?

And 3,000 years of human history has nothing to say? Oh, good. That's got to go well. We'll be right back after this. As a physician, I am deeply concerned about efforts to erode the doctor-patient relationship. And as medical freedom continues to come under assault, I'm on a mission to empower you to be able to take care of yourselves and your family the way you want to. I urge you to get this medical emergency kit from The Wellness Company. It contains essential prescription medication you should really always have on hand. Here's Dr. Peter McCullough,

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So let's bring Rob Henderson back in. Do follow him on Twitter and Instagram. You will learn something if you do so. And before we talk a little philosophy, tell them about your Instagram. What are you doing there? Do you just catch your eye and you underline it and send it up for us, or are you building a case? No, I'm not really building. There's no hidden agenda necessarily. It really is just I read a lot. I think a lot. And I spend a lot of time

just sort of browsing articles and scientific papers and books and anything that catches my eye. I'll just take a photo with my phone and I have like a little backlog and I'll just post them, you know, six or seven of them a day on my Instagram story. And, you know, it just started out as a, like a side distraction, something, you know, if I needed a break from actual reading, I'll just post things that I'm reading on social media. And now I hear people telling me, you know, I'll wake up in the morning with my coffee and I'll read your Instagram story. And that's like, oh, six interesting tidbits that day. And yeah, I never thought about it that way, you know, but that's like, you know, it's nice that people are out there and I know people are out there.

And I know people are busy. Most people don't have time to sit down and read a 400-page book. People have jobs, they have lives and things to take care of. But if they can get an interesting tidbit on Instagram or Twitter or through conversations like this, I think that's great.

Just multiple sources of information, helpful. Yeah, I agree. And just, I've often, I've kind of wondered what you think you know what what makes you stop and underline something is is it you thinking to myself i didn't know that or is it you thinking oh that kind of is emphasizes something i knew or is it a integrated construct i hadn't thought about something like that i think all of the above um yeah if it's if it's novel or or interesting i'll highlight if it's something that interesting, I'll highlight it. If it's

something that I had some sort of dim awareness of, but it puts it into words, sort of makes it concrete, that helps too. I mean, I was just reading something recently about chimpanzee troops and how alpha male chimps will become enraged when they see other males mating and how they become very violent. And this is something that I think is kind of at odds with the way that there's this red pill pickup artist community. And they'll say, oh, if you're an alpha male as a human, you shouldn't care if other people are hooking up and having sex. It's not a big deal to you, what have you.

But then when you look at the animal kingdom, actually the alpha males are very territorial. And they become enraged when they see other males with a meeting with with females and i just thought that was like an interesting contrast and so i posted that on instagram just because you know that's something something clicked there of this sort of weird online you know niche sub community versus what's actually going on in the animal research so it's interesting to me that in my own sort of reading on these, you know, these are areas I've been very interested in a long time too.

And I sort of found myself in primatology at a certain point. You know, and I didn't know you were there. I didn't know that you were there. Because you start looking at the motivational states and the drive states and you go, I wonder where those came from. And instead of denying that they're there, which is what academia does, you should strive to understand them and think, oh, those must be very powerful. How do we morph them so they don't overrepresent or move us in directions that are potentially destructive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, one of the phrases that I've heard from you, Drew, is reality on reality's terms of,

you know, here's how people are, here's what human nature is. And, you know, you can channel it and you can contain it and you can direct it into a productive direction. But if you deny it, or if you have this idealized view of what humanity really is, this, you know, the, the Rousseau and noble savage idea or something of, you know, actually, if we just eliminate all boundaries and constraints that we can live in some kind of utopia, um, yeah, that, that leads to catastrophe. And, you know, what, and just a sidebar on Rousseau, he was a total asshole. He, he uh he carted around a woman his entire adult life and used her used her as a sexual just sort of object uh she had five

children she forced him to leave every single one on the steps of a orphanage which was common in pre-revolutionary france and the survival rate was around 10 to 20%. So he was, you know, forcing this woman to commit her children to die. It's just, he was such an asshole. I mean, like, and then we, then you little know, in fact, he got in a carriage accident. He was run over by a carriage.

And when he woke up from that, he was unconscious for a minute, his slow paranoid preoccupation with Voltaire set in. And I think that had something to do with the head injury. But in any event, just a little couple of Rousseau tidbits. But what did I want to say? I wanted to get into the other philosophers. So what does academia say now?

I guess I was going to mention the post-structuralists where they're taking the position that everything is created by society. A man is a tabula rasa. It's a complete empty skull that gets filled with society. What do you say to these academicians that maintain that? I mean, it's total nonsense. I mean, I will say that psychology seems to more or less have held the line.

I think sociology and anthropology and some of these other disciplines, I mean, there are good scholars within those disciplines. But as a whole, they are drifting more and more into that sort of blank slate. You know, everything is a of that foot in biology, a foot in animal research, in understanding cross-culturally that humans can vary. But there is that kind of underlying nature that we have. And I think that's just an important thing to recognize that there are sort of well i'm glad to hear i'm glad i'm glad to hear that evolution on biology evolution psychology is back because biology is evolution psychology at its core is biology and so of course evolutionary psychology has merit there was a lot of criticism 10 15 years ago as it being sort of just so they you know just so argument just so explain, you know, just so argument, just so explain it. Yeah. And I remember David,

what is the gap at Washington? Help me. Well, there was David, very, very faint bus. David bus was really under attack for a while. Like this guy's a great psychologist and I'm just really,

I mean, you're giving me some hope here to know that things are kind of, the clouds are clearing a little bit. I mean, there's always a little bit of a skirmish and a bit of a conflict. I mean, even within psychology, evolutionary psychology, you know, it does get, you know,

the occasional detractor and critic and so on. But by and large, I mean, there's still a lot of good papers being published in high quality journals by top scholars. And so, yeah, I mean, evolutionary psychology is just rooted in something that's very real. And, you know, it's not going to easily go away. You can only fight human nature for so long.

Well, the way I, you know, spending many years working in psychiatry, I would say that on average, we used to say this about alcoholism. We would say, this is the clearest way to say this, the, we used to say this about alcoholism. We would say, this is the clearest way to say this, the most accurate way to say this, that the disease of alcoholism, which is a behavioral, psychological, biological condition, the condition of alcoholism is accounted for on the basis, I want to say with great accuracy, is accounted for on the basis of,

is 60% accounted for on the basis of biology alone. So 60% of the disease is accounted for on biological basis only. And it is a necessary ingredient for the illness. It's not a sufficient reason, but a necessary. So you have to have it and then it has to be activated. And it's about 60% that if you have it, you know, that it will go on to manifestation, to expression. So to that extent, I don't mind the back and forth. I mean, because there is environment, there is environmental input on the biology.

There's no denying that. There absolutely is. And if we can refine that and make it better and impact the biology more effectively in some way, fantastic. But to deny one or the other or deny the importance of biology, that is devastation. Yeah. Well, having that knowledge of genetics is helpful too. I mean, there's a great book by a behavioral geneticist, Robert Plowman, wrote this book, Blueprint. And he talks about how he was able to do this polygenic scoring. He basically found out that he was at high risk for obesity, and he takes this knowledge and essentially uses this to help his environment or shape his environment.

He makes sure that he doesn't have high-calorie snack foods around and sugar, and he makes sure that he avoids certain areas where he might be tempted and so some of this knowledge is very useful it's good to know that we have a nature that we have genetic propensities because it can help you avoid catastrophe look just i there are 30 common dna repair abnormalities you can test for i tested i have one i have lynch syndrome so now i get colonoscopies every year and that will reduce my risk and that's that's sort of how this all works everybody to deny the the biological is as you said your great great great peril uh so so let's go back to um rolls and these you know we've now we now we know the answer and uh why do you think this happens periodically through human history what i is it is it i read a book recently that theorized it was because of ossified ensconced elites that elites will do what they have to do to protect themselves and the more ossified and the more aged the more they will do things to sort of i don't know, create less competition

from up and comer. I don't know exactly what the motivation would be, but do you think there's anything in that or what might you think it'd be? Well, so that reminds me of Peter Turchin's theory of intra-elite conflict. So he's a, I think he's like a mathematical biologist or something. He recently wrote a great book called Antitimes. Oh, I think that might be the guy. Yeah, so he talks about...

Yeah, it's a book. That's the book. That's the book I was reading, yeah. Yeah, it's a really great book. And he writes... So I think he says that societal instability, there are sort of two main factors. One was intra-elite conflict.

And this is the main driver of societal instability, where there are always, in any society, a limited number of seats to be an elite. So, you know, he talks about the modern U.S. Like if you look at the number of millionaires per capita since the 1980s, it's actually increased over time. So more and more rich people adjusting for inflation and those kinds of things, more rich people. But there are still only a certain number of senators. There's only one president. There's only a certain number of Fortune 500 companies, editor positions at elite

media outlets and so on. And so you have more and more people vying for a small number of seats, and they become more cutthroat and more sinister in their willingness to backstab and to betray. And this creates societal instability. And then that other piece that he talks about is popular immiseration, widening inequality, that things seem to be diverging more and more. And I mean, it's interesting. He focuses a lot on economics, as a lot of social scientists do. They talk about poverty and inequality, and those things are important. But I think right now, you know, in the U.S. today, there are poor people. But poverty looks different today than it did 60 plus years ago.

You know, poverty in our grandparents generation and before. I mean, it used to be, you know, if you were poor, you may not actually get to eat. Whereas today, people still do go hungry in this country. But more and more poverty looks like, you know, you receive some kind of assistance from the government. You get EBT, food stamps, those kinds of things. But the inequality now, you know, and I write about this in the book, is more and more sort of family structure, sources of fulfillment, of meaning, of happiness. I mean, there's a widening happiness gap between people who went to college versus people who didn't. And more and more, your sources of fulfillment are available to you. If you live a sort of comfortable life,

you can seek fulfillment in education and travel and interesting hobbies, in your marriage, in relationships, in your community. And now if you go to rundown areas of the country, marriages are deteriorating, families are falling apart. You're not really going to seek a lot of fulfillment in, you know, you're not going to necessarily have a really interesting and creative career if you don't go on to college. So, you know, you're going to have a job where you clock in and you clock out. And, you know, if you don't have a family to provide for, that kind of job can feel very mundane and meaningless. Churches are closing

up. You know, people used to get a lot of fulfillment from their faith, from the community that churches and synagogues and these kinds of institutions would supply. And those are shuttering and closing down. And, you know, after the lockdowns and everything, like what I'm hearing post-lockdown is a lot of old people, elderly people would go to church. And then after the lockdown, they stopped, and then they never resumed. You know, they sort of fell into that holding pattern of, oh, we're not going to go to church on Sunday anymore. And I think that is, we still haven't fully come to grips with what occurred there, of how all of these community centers closed, and then people just didn't resume and reignite that part of their social life.

And so that's what the inequality looks like more and more. And I think all of this is contributing. But what's interesting to me, too, is that a lot of the call for revolution, it doesn't come from the poor and the destitute. A lot of it actually comes from people who are highly educated and people who are, objectively speaking, very fortunate. But these are the people who are calling to topple things over and who are very strident. And that to me is interesting. The mass demonstrations, I mean, there was really interesting survey data on who was participating in the political demonstrations in 2020, rioting in the streets. And a disproportionate number of them had college degrees, six-figure incomes, postgraduate

degrees, very comfortable, disproportionately white, interestingly, especially in sort of major cities. And they were the ones who were saying, we need to tear everything down. And I think that what can explain that is that intra-elite conflict, that yes, objectively, they're comfortable, but they're angry because they're at the 90th percentile in society and not the 99th percentile wow that's crazy i'd never i never thought of it that way and i read the damn book interest i also pulled out bowling alone recently that's an old book about how clubs and things are been breaking down the united states and the source of that and and i was uh i had two thoughts while you were talking.

One was Hobbes' description of society prior to sort of building a social structure. I'm trying to remember, was it isolated, violent, nasty, brutish, and short? It was something like that. Nasty, lonely, violent, brutish, and short. But the point is short. And you would talk about the grandparents or great-grandparents' poverty.

Life expectancy was, you know, it's funny. I was watching the series, The Nick. It was a series about a New York hospital at the turn of the 20th century. And the surgeon who becomes the object of the whole storyline is his mentor that kills himself. and he's at his funeral giving them the eulogy and he says the turn of the babies born now at the turn of the

20th century can expect to live to the age of 40 and i thought wow well there we are things are a little bit different right now and then i also was thinking about somebody said something, what the elites are demanding and tearing things down or what these 90 percenters are demanding. It's beginning to sound like an episode or the description in Woody Allen's movie, Bananas, where they're, if you remember that movie, you should watch it again. It's a little bit clairvoyant for the present moment,

but it's about essentially a Castro-like character that takes over and he starts making crazy demands from his new power base. And he says, you know, you're going to have to change, underwear can only be changed every three days and it must be worn on the outside so we can check. And it's like oh okay that sounds familiar to me feels like some of the stuff i had to do during covid so here we are uh

so so any i have to kind of wrap things up here rob is it pertains to that issue you know the kinds of uh ritualized uh talisman wearing uh you know sort of cooperation with centralized authority you know this has sort of been an extraordinary time where that has happened not just here but internationally yeah i wonder if you have any insights or thoughts into that and where we're going with all that yeah i mean it's interesting that i think that america is a unique place. I mean, it's a very, the economist Tyler Cowen refers to America as a high variance country, where you have people who are extremely obedient and willing to listen to the received wisdom. But then we also have this other side that's very rebellious and very skeptical and, you know,

just sort of suspicious of authority. And that's kind of an undercurrent that's been sort of a mainstay throughout American history, that sort of rebellious streak. And so I think I talked to you about this, Dr. Drew, like, you know, I visited parts of California where people weren't obeying the lockdown rules and they weren't wearing masks and they weren't doing all of those things. And, you know, I just think that we're sort of fortunate to have that, that, you know, if you don't want to, you know, toe that line and you want to explore other options for how you live your life, you can still find those pockets in the country. And so, you know, where are we going? I think that the, you know, the elites will always want power. I mean, there's survey data research I cite in my book about this, about how the people who are at or near the top of society, the majority of them think that we should ration electricity and meat

to fight climate change. They think that commercial airlines should close down because XYZ, climate, climate, and what have you. But fortunately, the vast majority of people disagree and I think more and more people are speaking out. So free speech is winning a little bit. Another book I read is called, speaking of the sort of rebellious streak, called Albion Seed. And Albion is an ancient name for the British Isles. And if you look at the genetic makeup and the regions from which most of the British nationals that came over here, it's Scotland, it's Northern England. There's Albion Sea.

It's Western England. And it's people who were, they were essentially the equivalent of, if you watch Game of Thrones, they were the wildlings. They were the wildlings. They were the ones that, really maniacs,

really violent, really tribal. And they came here, and the ones that were really crazy decided to put their family in wagons and head through the indigenous people's's territory so it's it's no wonder that we have some of that still speaking of genetics still going on this this very day and it does it does attract people that are sort of you know leaving something behind and willing to just take risks and and

you know leave everything to do so yeah yeah yeah it, yeah. The U.S. has historically attracted sort of ambitious and interesting people. And yeah, I mean, we'll manage. I mean, because I was in the U.K. during the lockdowns, and I just saw people kind of keep their head down and listen to the rules. I mean, it was interesting

because on the one hand, it was nice. There was no, it was not politically contentious. It's just like, okay, wear the mask, get the vaccine, no anger, no whatever. And in America, like on the one hand, it was not politically contentious. It's just like, okay, wear the mask, get the vaccine, no anger, no whatever. And in America, like on the one hand, it is uncomfortable, that constant political conflict. But on the other hand, it's like,

it's nice that people are willing to constantly challenge whatever's going on and to, you know, they haven't completely been. I'm telling you, the French really challenged the youth, the French youth, which I thought was interesting because the youth here wanted to be compliant. The youth in France were standing up to it. It was very interesting.

All right, Rob, it's always great to talk to you. I know for the listeners, we went through a lot of books here today, but this is the one you must read first. It is called Troubled. You must get it now from Amazon or wherever you buy books. You will not be sorry. You will have trouble putting it down. I promise it is not just well-written, but it's a hell of a story. And you will learn be sorry you will have trouble putting it down i promise it is not just well

written but it's a hell of a story and you will learn you will learn yeah it's breathtaking it is a breathtaking story i i had a emotional reaction and emotional ride the entire way and uh if again you look at the back of the book and uh the jordan petersons and the melissa kearney's and nicholas christakis all these people are ringing in with kind words about the book. So thank you, sir. Appreciate it. It's always.

And when you're out here, or maybe if you, if I, why are you staying in the UK? When are you going to come live in New York or Los Angeles or what are you going to do? What's the plan? I mean,

we'll see. We'll see. I mean, things are up in the air right now, but I've yeah. Next time I'm, I mean, either,

you know, yeah, it'd be great to catch up. All right. We'll get, we'll go have lunch somewhere or coffee or whatever. We'll figure it out. All right. Good luck with the book.

Keep pushing. It takes, books take a while. Just keep going. And by the way, once the, once the book sale part is sort of settling down, please use it as a springboard to speak from because whenever people, you know, asked you have something to say, you go, well, yes, I wrote a book about my life. And it can, from now on, be something that producers use to understand what you have to say. And I'm hoping, God, I hope, that what you have to offer is going to be something that is increasingly in demand. So here's to that.

Thank you, Dr. Drew. This has been great. All right, man. We'll talk soon. Okay. Rob K. everybody that's right you can find i'm rob k henderson everywhere and uh we're going to switch gears a little bit so what we're going to do now is i'm going to bring as i told you at the beginning of the show a friend of mine christina farry who i've not been with on a television or a media project in 20, way too long. And we are reunited in a project first to help pets.

This is what we're going to be talking about. A little higher, there it is. And so, listen, health, obviously something I'm very interested in, well-being, longevity. And likewise, that's true for us pet parents. We have a place to go now. It's the family, dogs, cats, even horses, keep them in the best shape possible. As a dog dad, I am delighted. There is Pet Club 24-7. You see at the bottom of the screen here, I'm delighted to be working with

them. They are a company co-founded by two folks who lost several dogs to serious conditions, including cancer. And Pet Club 24-7 has an array of products, including a line of supplements for humans, such as the Enforce Plus Coriolis Versicolor with Reishi. You're going to see that Christina's got that one. And also we're going to talk to Kristen, who is one of the current leaders in the company. And the most in demand is the dogs, which is the mush puppies.

That's this one. And if I, is Rex around here, Susan? Is he nearby? No. Because he's dry. I gave him one of these, and he just would not let me alone after that. So they love them. It supports immune system.

And that, of course, is supported by many, many clinical studies. It's 24-7's mush puppies made here in the USA. No fillers, and it's not addicting. Your dog can't accidentally overdose on it. Our dogs are named Rex and Georgina. They love them, as I said. And we checked with our vet, and the vet was very supportive. Thought they were a great idea.

Mush Puppies also has glucosamine, carotene, and chondroitin for joint health. Great for these old dogs. There it is. There's the products. And the good news is we have a Dr. Drew approved deal for you. There he comes. You heard us talking about it. Go to drd doctor.com slash pet club 24 7 for discount that is pet that's doctor.com slash pet club 24 7 you can also find a link at doctor.com slash sponsors

and you'll find that special deal there as well but i'm very susan if you can move that camera oh you want to give him one? He's very excited about it. Rex, oh boy. He came right. Find it. Yeah. So here's his head. If you can move the banner, Caleb. I'm calling Caleb.

Come up here. Come up here. He's doing all kinds of tricks to try to get this thing. Come up here. Come on. Come on. Come on. Oh, there he is.

There's Rex. There he is. I knew he'd be be good he wants that he wants it all right all right i'm i'm excited about bringing christina in here so let's bring in my friend christina ferrari there's a cookie for georgina susan hey there look look at you sorry i'm gonna work for it it's so good to see you i can't even keep them in my pantry oh it's so good to see you too it's been way too long ridiculous so hold up the human one i know you yourself have had a colossal story with that um yes oh my gosh okay well maybe you want to tell that story before you go back to the dog so why why do you have so much of that one? Yeah. Well, I have my year supply here. In 2016, I was diagnosed with multiple myeloma and I'm getting a little ahead of myself first, but I want to go back to the time when I actually started using these, which has been almost 15, 16 years now, when I was asked to do an infomercial for them. But before I do

anything, when people offer me anything to endorse, I always do my due diligence. I wanted to know about them, what was in them, how it works, what they were saying was true. And so I read everything. I talked to people who took these and who gave testimonials. And I also read all of the research that was done by Harvard Medical, MD Anderson, all the major hospitals all around the country. And so after I did that, I was convinced, I said, I would be honored to be able to do this. So I started taking it in 2010. And it's really to boost your immune system. Put them in 2010. And then in 2016, I was diagnosed with multiple myeloma. Now multiple myeloma is the cancer, the plasma of the blood. It's not curable yet, but it is manageable. So I took it and I went through everything I had to go through to get ready. I wanted to have a stem cell transplant. I didn't want to take pills or

be somebody, you know, a person where they do, you do one pill, and then they try another, and then they try another, I said, No, we're going to do a stem cell transplant. So we did that. Doctor said to me, I had to be in the hospital for a month. In order for my it could because when you take have a stem cell, they wipe out your immune system completely. And before they could let me go, I had to my, my, my immune system had to be boosted to levels where if i go outside and somebody sneezes i would you know i i wouldn't be i wouldn't be safe so they had to wait for the numbers to come up so week two the doctor comes in as they do every day and um doctor did you know whatever they do and then uh he said to me she said to me and took my hand and said

you know what he said you can go home today and i and took my hand and said, you know what? She said, you can go home today. And I said, I can go home today. It's only been two weeks. And she said, I know it's been two weeks, but, you know, your immune system recovered really quickly. And I thought, oh, you know, and I thought, how, you know, how could that be? You know, to myself, I knew instinctively what it was. I did not want to tell the doctors at the time that I was taking a supplement because, you know, when you go through these operations, they tell you you have to stop everything.

You can't take an aspirin. You can't do anything. So I was released after two weeks and went home. And I'll never forget what she said to me because basically what this is is a death sentence. It used to be. When I was diagnosed, the doctor in the emergency room told me, you have two years to live, okay? Oh, boy. You have cancer.

You have cancer. You have two years to live. It was like, you know, everybody's reaction is different, but, you know, I thought, two years. I said, no, that's not happening. So I read everything. I did everything I could, you know, and then I'm taking, what I'm saying is this boosted my immune system enough for me to still be along with the stem cell.

I took these and the Versacolor Coriolis mushroom. It's in force. And I have been in remission for eight years now. May 4th. May the 4th be with me. I'm going to be eight years in remission. Now, the people that went through the stem cells the same time I did, they've all relapsed. And two of them, them unfortunately have passed away.

I'm still here and I'm very grateful for it. I take these every single day and it's made a huge difference in my life and in my health. So there you are. Thus you're advocating on the human side. And then is Kristen here too?

She's more on the animal side. Maybe we can bring her in. Yes. And there you are here too? She's more on the animal side. Maybe we can bring her in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there you are, Kristen. Thanks for joining us. Oh, we don't have sound.

We don't have sound for some reason. She's there. You may. There you are. Now you're there. There we got you. You're back. So tell us about the product.

Christina did a great job of talking about her what she believes to be her benefits from the uh the coriolis on the human front um we are specifically going after the pet 24 7 where because it just makes sense to us our vet supported it completely and our dogs love these things tell us us about the product. Yeah, absolutely. I'll tell you a little bit of why it got started and that'll explain a lot of why we are where we are today. But in 2017, the gentleman that started Pet Club 24-7 lost four dogs to cancer in the same year, all ranging from ages four to 11 years old. So that's very young to be losing them to cancer.

And so they were sitting around and they were realizing there has to be something that's causing this, there has to be a huge problem that's causing this. And so they started doing some research, and they found that the majority of the foods and treats and toys that we're giving our pets are actually toxic for them. And that's compromising their immune systems along with, you know, poor water quality, poor air quality, the chemicals that we're cleaning within our homes or using in the yard are all being absorbed directly in their bloodstreams. So all of these different things were compromising their immune systems. And I'm sure you have even realized just think about, you know, 20, 30 years ago, our pets used to live to be 15 to 20 years old.

And now the average lifespan is nine years. So after seeing that our pets were being so negatively affected by everything that they're being exposed to, they said there has to be something that we can do about this. And just like Christina had mentioned, they knew of this mushroom, the Coriolis birds to color mushroom, and what it had been doing for humans for many years. They knew there were over 400 published studies that had been done worldwide by the top institutions on this mushroom. And so they started doing some research to see if it would be safe for animals because not all mushrooms are safe for animals. And they happened to find a study that was done by University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary

Care and what they found was that dogs with hermangiosarcoma that were given the Coriolis Versicolor mushroom lived twice as long as the dogs with hermangiosarcoma that weren't given the Coriolis Versicolor mushroom and so they realized it was safe for animals and decided hey let's create a fun way to give this to our pets. Because I don't know if you've ever tried to give your pet a pill before or medication, but it is no fun for you. It's not fun for them. You got to trick them and then they spit it out and you have to start back over. So they decided, let's make this into biscuits and, you know, let's add it to a handmade gravy and let's make a healthier treat with human

grade whole foods that are safe for even people to eat. And let's don't use any of the synthetics or chemicals or preservatives or sugars or anything that's in a lot of these foods that are going into their systems. And maybe we can start to get them the immune support that their bodies deserve. And then their own bodies can then fight back against these cancers, break apart these tumors, you know, help with the allergies, the arthritis, the seizures, the autoimmune problems. And so that's how it got started. And what happened was right when we got the mush puppies, we have some dear friends, Kurt and Gail that posted on social media that their dog Zenta was going to have to

be put down. Unfortunately, she was almost 15 years old. And the average husky lives 12 to 14 years. So that's already a pretty long lifetime. And she had a really bad autoimmune disease for years where her paw pads were peeling off, her fur was coming out in clumps, her eyes were getting cloudy, and she was going blind. And she was in so much pain that she couldn't even walk. They had to pick her up and take her outside just to use the restroom and bring her back in. So of course, the vet said, this is not a great quality of life, I think it might be time to say goodbye. But they just felt in their spirit, you know, that it wasn't time yet, she wasn't ready yet, and she was still eating. So they asked, what are our options? So the vet, of course, recommended they get a couple hundred dollars worth of narcotics

and steroids to keep her comfortable and take her home and pretty much put her on hospice. They gave her two to three months. So as they posted this on social media, we instantly reached out to them. And we said, look, we have no idea what these little cookies will be able to do for Zenta, but it's worth a try. You know, at the very least, maybe it will give her a better quality of life with this little bit of time that you have left with her. That was our hope was to improve her quality of life. So they started giving her these little biscuits called the mush puppies. And four days later, they call us and they say, what did you give our dog? And we were like, why?

Because we had no idea if that was good or bad. And they let us know that she was walking on her own. She jumped on the couch after four days, which she hadn't done in a year and a half. And yes, they said, we think it's the mushrooms. We think this treat is really helping her. So we encourage them, keep giving it to her. Let's see what happens. Let's this treat is really helping her. So we encourage them, keep giving it to her. Let's see what happens. Let's see what happens after 30 days. 30 days later, her paw pads are healing. Her fur is growing in. Her eyes are clearing up and she's

regaining her eyesight. She's walking around. So at that point, they thought this is really special. Maybe we should take her off of the medications and just give her this natural support and see what her body is able to do for herself. And Zenta ended up living another four and a half years. She was 19 and a half years old, and we actually lost her to an accident. It wasn't even sickness. It's just there was an accident. She would probably still be with us today. So once we saw that happen, it just took us, it ripped our hearts. And we thought, man, if we could help other animals, dogs, cats, horses, you know, people, if we could help them just get that natural support into their system so their bodies can work optimally and it can do

what it was designed to do in the first place. Because the same thing we know is happening for people as it's happening for pets. We're just overloaded by toxins. We're exposed to toxins in every single way every day. So the immune system is fully equipped to defend the body, to repair and recover the body, to fight those foreign invaders and to break apart these growths

that are happening inside of the body. It regulates hormones, it regulates systems. It's just so intelligent and complex and fascinating when you learn all that's possible when the immune system is functioning optimally. So now six years later, we have countless testimonials on this product. And I really think it's important that people understand that strain does matter, especially in mycology when you're dealing with mushrooms. And we do have the most potent strain and we also extract it in a proprietary way where we get all of the polysaccharides. And that's why we've been having such wonderful experiences with these products as it's getting

into the body. And people can be encouraged. There are no fillers. It's all made and sourced in the United States. And it's very, very healthy for the body. And we just encourage people, regardless of what you're experiencing with your pets or even with yourself, or maybe you're not experiencing anything at all and you just want to be proactive

and not get to the point where you have to make those hard decisions for your pets. We just encourage you get it into the system. It's just a food. Like you mentioned earlier, it's just a food. It's just a mushroom. It doesn't interact with any medications or treatments. Can't get addicted. Your pet can overdose. As a matter of fact, the more you put in the body, the faster, the better it is for the body. And there aren't any side effects. So it really is a gift that's just dramatically improving the better it is for the body and there aren't any side effects so it really is a gift that's just dramatically improving the quality of life for both animals and peoples and

especially with animals people notice positive results within just about a week or so that's how quickly the body starts reacting once it gets that support and i'm on memorial sloan kettering's website just really quickly, Christina. And they make important, and they're rather encouraging about the mushrooms, but they say something important to say. Tell your healthcare providers about dietary supplements, such as herbs, vitamins, minerals, or natural home remedies, so the doctor can properly manage your care.

So there's always, even though Christina is rebellious and doesn't tell her doctors what she's doing, you should not follow Christina's. There's a general rule of my life just don't necessarily go with your gut no no no no but I still believed in what was happening you know and like I didn't say when that when I was leaving the doctor took my hand and said you can go home sweet lady it's called me it made me feel so you go home sweet she really didn't know you at all did she yeah what's wrong with her she never met you or something that's right this is that you can go home now sweet lady evidently god has more things for you to do and that gave me incentive and they said it would take about a whole year for me to get my sea legs back before

i would fully recover but within four to five, I was up and running like the Energizer Bunny. Amazing. Like we used to do when we worked together, you know. So it really made a huge difference in my life. And now you're going back into the modeling field. Tell people about that. Well, I turned 74 last Sunday, okay? So that was, and I can't believe that I was asked by a top New York agency in New York called Iconic Focus Models to come and model again.

It just so happens that these women who run the company happened to be my bookers years ago when I was at Ford Agency and on the covers of all the major magazines. They put together a company. Christina, Susan and I saw you on Love Boat. covers of all the major magazines and all, and they put together a company. Christina, Susan and I saw you on, uh, get your mic on Susan on love boat. Oh my God.

She was so cute. Funny. Yes, it's true. Uh, so yeah. And I went back and, you know, I'm already on a few covers of magazines again and i

can't and while i was working i had forgotten how much i truly missed it all these years where i you know i got sidetracked and i became a talk show host and i had the honor to work with you and that crazy show men are from mars and they should believe that and women are from venus uh yeah it it was a wonderful experience but well okay i take that back i take that's a show that's a whole other show yeah yeah we can talk about that in detail but but but you were i don't know if you know this but but you i would am i am it till you tell me susan i'm saying something out of turn um you were her favorite host i get back i guess when you were steve edwards was that the one you just yeah you were her absolute.M. Los Angeles. Yeah. A.M. Los Angeles.

You were her absolute favorite. Oh, you're my favorite. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Still are. Yeah. Oh, she's still your favorite. That's good.

Did you hear? She said that to you, Drew, just now? No, you. Oh, oh. You're the best. You're also a great chef. This is so sweet. Oh, thank you.

Yes. I learned so much from you. I bought your cookbooks, and I think I cooked everything in them, from the baked beans to the, oh, she has the best baked beans in her. You can't get that cookbook anymore, though. I had to pay like $50 for it on the Black Market. You have something else out right now, don't you? Yes, I have something that doesn't cost $50.

It's a living cookbook. I have a series of 15 of them coming out. The first one is only on pasta. I'm working on the one now for salads because spring is coming. And I do it through Legible. Legible is an e-book company that produces all of these millions of these books. But right now we're concentrating on mine. It's like I said, it's the first of 15.

And you can go there and what it is, you can have a live actual experience in it because it's living. You can go on it and you can see where the recipe, let's say for a marinara sauce, you go there and it will show you how to make it live. And then the first of its kind ever in the world, we are the first people to do it. We have a live AI sushi. So Susan, if you have any questions, you want to know how to make Drew a delicious dish of pasta. And let's say you asked it a question like, I have three quarts of water.

How much salt should I put in the water? And he'll tell you, I call him Chef Al. Maybe I should call him Chef Drew. Where do you find that? I don't think we brought you on to push your book, but I had to anyways. Oh, well, thank you. Where do we find that? Well, you can go to, let's see, there's a promo code that you can use in the description.

You have to go to a special promo code. It's Dr. Drew 24. And then if you're looking for me, you could go to legible. I'm going to make sure because I don't want to get anything wrong. Legible.com slash my model kitchen. I call my books, my model kitchen. I thought I would do a little play on words. And since I'm back modeling, I'm doing my model kitchen and I love doing it I think cooking shows how cooking for me is love and I also find cooking very sexy because it involves all the the senses your eyes your sense of smell your sense of taste and it's something that is really really my passion so that's what I'm doing and I have 15 of them to do. So that's all

I do all day is I eat my job and I cook, but, um, it's good. And then sometimes also I'll make a salad dressing using the carry elite versus color, because I understand too, this has nothing to do with it. You have coffee, right? You have coffee with it. So hold on. Can we, does that, does that, we have the pet club. I want to get the call Can we, does that, we have the Pet Club. I want to get the call to action right. So we have doctor.com slash petclub247. And everything's there. Including the coffee and everything else. Human supplements, coffee, gravy for dog food so they'll eat it.

It's hard for me to. There's other stuff. I think they have like bison bites or something for the dogs too. Oh, I love those. And then they have little like chewies. They have the, what are those horn things that the dogs chew? What is that? I can't quite see it.

Are you eating? They have antlers. No, they're not. These are double chocolate chip cookies. You can give them to babies. You can give them to little kids and they can eat chocolate chip cookies. love them yeah those are good too you have some of those in front of you i really good so i i love christine i have done i'm telling you she is the best chef i've ever met and i followed her i used to go to her parties i used to learn how to cook i i went from cover to cover in her her uh book the the first uh the first one

that you had the first cookbook and i swear the pages were all like covered with food and and i still have it i still use it and i mean seriously this woman knows her food definitely so so i i haven't done my due diligence on the human side but but I have on the pet side, so I can fully endorse what we're doing there. And people can do their own research, their own due diligence as they please. So let's make sure. Christina, you said there's a Drew24 code or something. Is that for a discount? Yes.

No. Well, so the current promo code says it gives you a month's free membership to Legible Unbound. So you could go there and it enables the readers to access the first My Model Kitchen book as well as millions of e-books and audio books. That's for Christina's cookbook. Okay, got it. That's for the book. See, I'm supporting your cookbook too. But if they go to drdrew.com slash petclub247, then that's the one that automatically has the discount built in.

You don't have to use a promo code or anything like that. You get 15% off. Yeah. It confused me at first. I made sure, and I was like, I don't see a discount. But they said, if you look in the small print, you see the list price, and then we get 15% with that link. Quick question.

And you know, it's funny, because I buy so many cookies for my dogs. Christina, is this you on the cover of Cosmopolitan? Yeah, of course. Is that you? I've been clicking Googling, and I'm like, and you know it's funny because christina is this is this you on the cover of cosmopolitan yeah yeah of course is that you of course i've been clicking googling and i'm like there's no way these all these are her we have a we have a millennial in the house so okay pages and pages of stuff she's done no no no in the in the 1970s she was the it person the it woman oh the google results never end like It's just constantly pages and pages of covers and modeling. Wow, amazing.

Wow. And she's nice. Dr. Drew and I look... Oh, thank you. Thank you. How are you? Dr. Drew and I are Q-tips now. Look at us with our hair.

I know. You guys need a talk show again. Yeah, we're going to do a talk show again. Do another talk show again. Someday we need to, I wonder if we should ever do like get Sam Phillips and the three of us really decompose, like publicly talk about that experience. He was the bad girl on this.

We were like mommy and daddy having to tone this, this girl down. She was a blast. Yeah. Nothing. She has no blast. Yeah. Nothing. She has no filter. No filter at all. Do you remember Sam?

Yeah. I wonder if she's still alive. Oh yeah. She's around. She was, she was, she was living with my intern over at KBC. She was wild.

She, she, I've, I've had contact with her. So yeah, no, she's fine. All right.

So Kristen, have we have we uh run the cycle here have we gotten down everything we need to do in terms of educating people about the products and uh giving the call to action and making sure people understand so christina do you have any recipes with like with the mushroom coffee in it maybe talk about the coffee like could you do like a a steak rubbed with the mushroom coffee? Have you ever done that? No, I haven't. But I do make a, because my last book, Food for Thought, is all about health and well-being for the brain and all that.

And I make processed sugar, as you were saying, Kristen, not only bad for our pets, but for us as well. I came up with a recipe for a chocolate mousse. And in the chocolate mousse, I put some coffee in it. I like an espresso. But I'm going to put in the coffee that you guys have. What is it called anyway? Is there a name for the coffee? Yeah. I'm going to use the coffee. Yeah, I'm going to use the coffee.

Yeah, I'm going to cook with it. And I bet you it's going to be wonderful because when you get this package, you can already smell the aroma of the beans. But then when you open it, the aroma just knocks you over because it smells like you're standing in the fields of Columbia,

you know, and all the beans. It's just so,'s just so intoxicating. And I have to say, and I'm not saying this just to say this, it is the best coffee I have ever had. It's smooth. It's creamy. And it's not, you know, sometimes when you have coffee, it's a little off. Why is my mouth watering? It's only coffee decaf coffee because almost all decafs use bleach and all kinds of chemicals

this just uses co2 so it's completely chemical free so even the decaf is delicious and smooth and just has such a cozy warm taste to. And it doesn't give you that acidic feeling in your stomach. Exactly. That's the word I was looking for. Because sometimes you can taste the hint of it. Coriolis Creek Coffee. What is the name of it? Okay.

Sorry, we didn't have the sample. We drank it. And somebody threw the bag away. For mine, mine's gone. I drank it too. It's gone. Because I looked everywhere in my kitchen. So I have to call and get some more.

But it's also good for you. You know, you get a little oomph in there. Well, we're happy to have you guys on board. We're happy to have you on board. I know. I'm so excited. Susan is very excited. I haven't seen Christina in so long and I've missed her so much.

Yeah. We miss Christina. She loves this product. Our dogs are old and we're looking for ways to make them better. And they've been a little wonky. They love these cookies. I've been giving them a cookie every day in the studio. Rex gets two and Georgina gets one and they, they just gobble them right down.

So we'll keep you posted on how they do. And Kristen, anything to wrap up here? No, just thank you so much for allowing us to come on your show and share what's happened with this. And hopefully it can help a lot of your listeners. i may say may say so myself i do not come on and talk about i haven't endorsed any product but i have to say this has made the biggest difference in my life

and i and i'm so grateful that i have it and i mean this sincerely is probably one of the the better things that I've done for myself because it's made a big difference, especially in the way I feel. And your enthusiasm and just being able to. I know that. And you've said that to me on the phone. And just to be with you again, it was an exciting opportunity. So I wouldn't miss it.

And so congratulations on this. Oh, there's one other thing that I realized when I was scanning through the website because I just ordered some stuff myself. They have cat goodies too. Oh, and horse. Yes, for cats too. And horse.

So I'm assuming there is, Yami is, go ahead, you're assuming? No, I was saying that Alexandra,lexandra they take in where she lives they take in uh little ponies that have been abused and she's been giving them the little court yeah and they you know it's made a different i could see their coats and and and they're i mean the main everything is coming back and because they are in an environment that's loving they have just thrived and now they're getting the what they need in order environment that's loving. They have just thrived, and now they're getting what they need in order to keep their system healthy.

So you're seeing her catching up on so many things. That's her daughter, Alex, and her Instagram, which I recommend most highly is Alex Cooks. And it's hysterical. Alex T. Cooks. Alex T. Cooks? Okay, Alex T. Cooks. Alex T. Cooks, yes.

Can we have Christina back? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I want to have you back again one day. Thank you. Yeah, we need to do this again. Not 10 years from now, Susan, because that's how long it's been. No, no.

Several years. I'm slating you in. We're going to get you slated in. Thank you. All right, you guys. Thank you for being here. We've indulged Christina and myself long enough and we will we'll bring christina back and uh i'll go eat drink my coffee so uh appreciate you guys uh and uh we'll be talking more about this as time goes

on so appreciate you being here thank you thank you for this opportunity you got it of course god bless you guys well done and so coming, we have, as always, a loaded week. This tests Lori on Wednesday, Willie soon tomorrow. That's on Friday. Brett Weinstein on March 5th. Oh, no. Yeah, March 5th. Right.

Dave Rubin on March 6th. Because I am going to be out that following week. I've got something I really can't talk about yet. Kevin Bass coming in. March 5th? No, the week before that. The week before that. that yeah i'll be the 28th to the first something like that okay yeah i know that's what i'm saying uh corolla's coming in here emily out she might kill you jimmy fail is coming back so we got a lot of stuff my man coming down the coming down

the road here and uh we're gonna actually gonna go see a Corolla right now. I'm buying my mush puppies right now. We got to go tape something for V Shred. Now? Yes. We don't have to be there until 7. It's time for dinner. We'll go get some mushrooms. We'll be here. All week is,

I know Tess Laurie is at noon. She's in the UK. So that'll be noon for that one, right, Caleb? Am I getting the time right? I'm looking at... No, no, 11. 11 a.m. 11 a.m. Yeah.

On Friday. Yeah, 11 a.m. I'm just looking at my schedule here. Okay, 11 a.m. And then tomorrow is 3 Pacific time. Thanks for loving christina too thank you guys and we will see you tomorrow three o'clock pacific time ask dr drew is produced by caleb nation and susan pinsky as a reminder the discussions here are not

a substitute for medical care diagnosis or treatment this show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide

Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.