Ask Dr. Drew - Sage Steele: Why ESPN Host Sued Disney After COVID-19 Vaccine Coercion + Corey DeAngelis on School Choice – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 385

Episode Date: July 28, 2024

“Corey DeAngelis is a FIGHTER for Parental Rights,” writes President Donald Trump. “School Choice is the CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE of our time, and parents must have a voice in their child’s education!” Corey DeAngelis, PhD, has been labeled the “school choice evangelist” and called “the most effective school choice advocate since Milton Friedman.” DeAngelis is the executive director at Educational Freedom Institute, a senior fellow at Reason Foundation, an adjunct scholar at Cato Institute, and a board member at Liberty Justice Center. He holds a Ph.D. in education policy from the University of Arkansas. Learn more at https://federationforchildren.org and follow Corey at https://x.com/deangeliscorey Sage Steele is a veteran broadcast journalist and television personality. For decades, Sage has covered major sporting events including the Super Bowl, NBA Finals, and The Masters. An Indiana University graduate, Sage began her career in local news before rising to national prominence as a lead host on ESPN. Follow Sage at https://x.com/sagesteele 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 • CAPSADYN - Get pain relief with the power of capsaicin from chili peppers – without the burning! Capsadyn's proprietary formulation for joint & muscle pain contains no NSAIDs, opioids, anesthetics, or steroids. Try it for 15% off at https://drdrew.com/capsadyn • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • TRU NIAGEN - For almost a decade, Dr. Drew has been taking a healthy-aging supplement called Tru Niagen, which uses a patented form of Nicotinamide Riboside to boost NAD levels. Use code DREW for 20% off at https://drdrew.com/truniagen • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician with over 35 years of national radio, NYT bestselling books, and countless TV shows bearing his name. He's known for Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Teen Mom OG (MTV), The Masked Singer (FOX), multiple hit podcasts, and the iconic Loveline radio show. Dr. Drew Pinsky received his undergraduate degree from Amherst College and his M.D. from the University of Southern California, School of Medicine. Read more at https://drdrew.com/about Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

welcome everyone two more great guests today sage steel joins me a veteran broadcaster journalist television personality covered major sporting events super bowl nba finals the masters and she began her career in early in local news before rising to national prominence and the host at espn you can follow her on x sage s-a-g-e-E, Steele, S-T-E-E-L-E. She made the mistake of questioning whether or not mandates for lots of things that we experienced during COVID, vaccine amongst them, whether we had the ethical standing, bioethical standing to do something like that. What a strange question. We'll get into that with Sage. She now has a podcast. We'll tell you about it. And then Cordy Angeles comes in.

School choice evangelist. He is a senior fellow at reason foundation adjunct scholar at the adjunct scholar at the cato institute and uh he has been labeled uh number one enemy by uh randy bomb garden is that her name at the uh teachers union you can follow him deangelis corey will tell you about his story after this our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre the psychopath started this right he was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography ptsd love addiction fentanyl and heroin ridiculous i'm a doctor for where the hell you think i learned that i'm just saying you go to treatment before you kill people.

I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot-the-counter medication i'll

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it. Get the pain relief you need from various sources, even backaches, sprains, bruises even. Order now at capsidin.com slash drew to get a 15% discount plus free shipping. That is C-A-P-S-A-D-Y-N capsidyn.com slash D-R-E-W capsaidyn is a great topic I've been using it for years but now with capsaidyn it is without any burning which people used to complain about like crazy can we throw up the upcoming guests here Caleb? Kelly Victor coming

in tomorrow new with Harry Fisher we've got Peter Navarro in here next week this should be very interesting Christine Anderson of course the Firebrand EP from the EU. And you can see the other guests up there coming our way. It should be very interesting, as always. Emily Barsh is working overtime for us. We appreciate it very much.

And today is no exception. First up is Sage Steele. As I said, Sage was a news reporter and then ESPN anchor. Covered everything, and something happened along the way here. She now has a new project I want her to tell you all about. Welcome, Sage Steele. Dr. Drew, thank you. Thank you for having me. This is an honor. It's a pleasure to have you. I had the great good fortune of eating dinner next to you at one of Dave Rubin's sort of soirees, which are always

interesting and sitting across from billionaires. And it's just always an interesting group he puts together. You know, yeah, I was definitely out of place, billionaires and doctors and geniuses, and it's okay. The most important part, I don't know if you're forgetting, but we actually shared a meal. We couldn't decide. That's right. We split things. We split. And the bigger comedy at that table was Adam Carolla splitting a potato with the billionaire that was sitting next to him, which I thought was even more extraordinary. Only Adam. But yes, thank you. And you were not out of place. You were very much a part of that whole little community we put together. And Dave, who now has moved away from us in Florida, we miss him, but he still comes back and puts together these little think tanks once in a while. And it was always very interesting to hear from him. And so tell us, first of all, about the new project. You have a great new podcast coming up. Tell me about it. Thank you.

It's so strange to be able to have a conversation and not feel like I have to edit or be careful. Like, it's the C word. It's an actual conversation. And it's just been really wonderful. My goal was to do just that and to talk to people, you know, with whom I have different opinions and different experiences. And that, to to me is kind of what needs to happen in our country to kind of heal things to attempt at least. But it's just really nice. And you know, you know what it's like, you'll come in with a couple notes. But

99% of the time, I don't even look at them, you start off and then you listen. Again, what a concept. You listen to go from there. But it's everybody from my first episode with Dana White, who has become a really deep friend, and everyone from RFK Jr. to Sharon Osbourne, you name it. All kinds of very unique people with awesome conversations. Are those up now? You have to edit your whole life. Is all that up now, Sage, or is that stuff that's coming? No, it's all up. The first podcast dropped that stuff that's coming no it's all up um the

first podcast dropped on 28th and it's every wednesday um john voight is who dropped today and so yeah it's on youtube and wherever you can find you get your podcasts i'm having profound guest envy that's incredible what a great lineup you've had. And not only that, but I got to say that, look at that. That's amazing. Caleb, well done on all the promotional links here. Thanks, Caleb. But what I noticed about what they're pushing out and what these shows have had that, you know, you say you don't edit, but you're a professional broadcaster, you have that ear when you know what the rhythm should be and how things need to go in a conversation in an environment like you've created. And so it's more than just

a conversation. It's like you're managing it and making it really interesting for the viewer. That's the goal. I'm certainly trying to do that. And listen, there has not been a single second of the now 2021 episodes that we've dropped that, you know, Trump, Vivek Ramaswamy, like so many interesting people that we've edited out, including when I've really screwed up, like the very first episode with Dana White, where, again, he's a dear friend. And at the end of it, I tried to end with this dramatic question because I know how deep he is. And then I called him Joe Rogan instead of Dana White. And I got murdered. I mean, it went viral. I got killed for that. To this day, people come up to me in airports. Hey, Joe Rogan. I'm like, you're not even original. Find a better joke at this point. But it's like I have three kids. I call my kids the wrong name. I screwed up. I could have edited it out. And I'm like, if you don't laugh at yourself, you've got to get a life. So is edited out good bad or ugly and yeah that is a great policy that is the the new world order

and uh you heard us talking a little bit before the show we were all sort of chatting before the the cameras turned on here caleb help her understand what happens when things go wrong. When things go wrong? Things never go wrong here, Drew. No, no, but I mean, not with us so much as when there's a gap, that's when things go viral. That's when you get real traction.

Oh, exactly. Absolutely. That's always the biggest moments in the show. I already mark things for clips anytime something goes wrong. That's what works. That's what people like to see.

They don't want to see normal. Yeah, it's part of any conversation, right? And Dana just kept sending me clips. He's like, this is so amazing. It did it again. It's got 30 million views. My first episode, not the episode, but the clips. And thanks to Dana's reaction

too. So we hang out and we laugh about it. That's a good way to launch your show is with a screw up. Yeah, I agree. So what have you learned? Are there things in the, I mean, I know I learn things every day when I interview people on this show. Are there things that have stood out for you across these interviews that you thought, wow, I just, I really feel like this expanded my worldview or I learned something about somebody that I thought I knew and now I know them in a way I didn't know them before? Every single person. I have learned so much because you can do so much research, I guess, on the internet. And I do a lot of listening to other podcasts

and preparing for my own. But at the end of the day, you end up finding so much more if you're really listening and then diving deeper and deeper. I'd say at least end of the day, you end up finding so much more if you're really listening and then diving deeper and deeper. I'd say at least half of them, there's been tears shed. It's not the goal. I'm not trying to make everybody cry. But at the end of the day, when you really can dive deep with people. So that was always my goal. And I really, I've said this to my kids, I have kids that are in college, 18, 20 and 22. And you know, sometimes people can say and do hurtful things or things that are confusing or controversial. And to me, instead of like snapping at them, I want to understand why. And sometimes, you know, there's not necessarily an excuse for bad behavior, but there might be a reason. And so when

you talk to people and find out their reason, every opinion, in my opinion, is based on someone's experience. And I've been so not surprised, but just further enlightened about how many things people are going through that you might not know because it looks like they've got the perfect life on TV, you know, the makeup, the hair, the glamorous lifestyle, social media, but everybody's got something. And I'm so honored that many of them have chosen to share, but it's just a reminder. We all are dealing with crap. Lead with kindness. We're all just human beings. That is so true. But now I'm going to drill on a little bit of your stuff, which is you told me something at dinner, which all of us at the

table were like, huh? Like really incredible. And anybody seeing you now would have difficulty understanding how that is possible. Your shyness, your introvertedness. Now I'm going to get shy. I'm going to shut down the rest of the interview. Oh gosh. My parents who are probably watching because they love you more than they love me. I was an incredibly shy kid with this crazy dream, not just to be a sportscaster, but to be on ESPN and to host SportsCenter. And that's exactly what I ended up doing, but not without my mom and dad really pushing me. And I mean, they were about to take me to doctors because I was weird. I would only talk around family and very close friends and ended up introducing me to

horses. Horses can be therapeutic. It really pulled me out of my shell. And my dad's like, yeah, this TV dream is great, said my parents, but you have to talk if you want to be on TV. So we've got some things to work on. And then my dad challenged me a lot with sports, trivia, et cetera. That's another way that we really bonded. But yeah, listen, I still walk into rooms and feel myself tightening up on the inside. But I take a deep breath and now I know how to flip that switch. And the same goes for live national television. You just have to have confidence that you can do it. And the more you push through that fear, I am kind of proof that you can do it. Yeah, it's amazing. I want

to hear a little more about the steps you went through. So if anyone is sort of interested in doing something that they may not be obvious that they have talent for, but they really instinctively feel they want to, what the steps are. But before we go through that, do you think it was social anxiety? Because that kind of tightening you feel when you go in a room kind of sounds like social anxiety to me. You know, maybe. I think back then in the 80s, because I'm 51 now, and back then, I feel like we didn't have names for all of those things. You just push through. I find myself even today challenging myself though. For example, this past weekend, I was outside of this New York City here about 40 minutes away in New Jersey,

and it was a charity golf tournament for Goose, the late Tony Saragusa from NFL fame, who was a dear friend of mine who passed away a couple of years ago. And it was a charity event for him. And the only person I knew was his daughter. And, you know, so I walk in and there's a big, you know, concert and kind of just informal, but very small, small group, 70 people or so, but everybody came with a date, right? And I'm divorced, I'm single now. And it's uncomfortable to walk into parties and restaurants and movie theaters everywhere alone. And I'm doing that a lot now. And so I find as I step outside of my body that I continue to challenge myself with things that are a little bit hard and uncomfortable when you walk in alone with like a, you know, an event and you're in all white and everybody's got

someone on their arm and I don't, but I don't know. I look back through all those years of pushing through those fears and that's one of them. Even at my age, I still have to keep challenging myself. And I feel like if I don't, how can I push my kids to do the same? And what were the steps that got you, you eventually end up as a newscaster. It was either do it or you're not going to ever come close to achieving this dream. You know, my dad would kind of just throw out statistics with the Denver Broncos football team, for example. He's a military officer. I'm an Army brat.

I lived all over the world. And we moved to Colorado Springs in 1984. So football fans, John Elway was drafted in 83 and it was Broncos fever. And it's like, okay, you want to, you know, compete with the guys with all their trivia knowledge with sports. Okay. Number 76, what's his name? What's his position? Where'd he go to college? And so it was like quick, quick, quick. And so sometimes it was just trivia. Other times it was, okay, that kid that moved in next door, don't wait for her to come over. You go over. You say hi. You introduce yourself. And I would shake. It's like, I don't want to do that. What if they don't like me? And I felt different.

My dad's black. My mom's white. I'm biracial. And in the military, that's very accepting world. It's so accepting and diverse there. Outside of the military, it wasn't as much. And so it's just walking in there anyway. When you're the new kid all the time, you have to go up to the other kid on the playground and say, do you want to play kickball? You want to play tetherball? They don't necessarily come to you. So it was little challenges to find friends as a kid and little by little, you know, through junior high and high school. Sports, by the way, was huge. And we were required to play a sport. And I've required my kids to do the same, not just to push through their shyness, but to learn that it's not just about you. You are on a team. And then if you don't end up liking the lacrosse team,

well, too bad, you're going to finish the season because you are now committed to your teammates and your coaches. But there's little ways to, I think, hold yourself accountable as an adult and certainly for parents to do the same for their kids. If my parents hadn't held me accountable, my crazy dream to get on SportsCenter would never have happened. So do you have brothers and sisters? I do.

Two younger brothers. Brothers. So you're the only daughter. You're the only girl. Because I hear your dad channeling right through you. And I'm imagining, and I wonder, not even imagine, I wonder if, and you were the oldest, if you had any resistance to some of the sports, you know what I mean?

Did that seem right to you? Did it seem like a good thing? Because you said you sometimes wanted to stop, it sounded like, and he said, no, these are really important lessons. And thank God for your dad. I mean, you should be, again, I just, you know, I admire that kind of parent, yeah.

But did you have any special, do you have special challenges as the daughter? I guess that's the question I'm asking. I wouldn't even say challenges. I didn't look at it that way. I will say I did have the disease of being a pleaser, which I'm really, I'm almost there. I don't know, Dr. Drew, you tell me, is it ever fully curable? It really doesn't. It's an orientation and it's okay.

It's okay because like any sort of phenomenon, some psychological phenomenon, it becomes a liability in certain settings, but it can also be a significant asset. And so what I'm guessing is you're also very sensitive to other people. You pick up on lots of things. That's all very much of an asset. I'm very empathic, I think. I do feel everything. And I did want to, when my younger brothers would act up, because of course I was perfect and they were annoying. And so I wanted to take that so that

it wouldn't upset my mother. I will say this. My father, yes, West Point graduate and very structured, but so loving. My mother, my mother is the one that's like, I mean, she's half Irish, half Italian, like get out of the way, you know? And my mother is the one with that big personality. And she taught me something that I'll never forget. Being a military spouse, it's not about you. You're the one that has to hold the fort down. And my mother is so talented and so smart and can do so many things, but was never really able to, because when you're moving across the world every two to three years,

you can't really establish a career. So she was incredible with us three kids at home and then started working as well. But she said something to me that I'll never forget. When the fear would build up, she talked about how she regretted not being able to really try and go have her career and try some of her dreams because she couldn't. So she said to me, she's like, you have to always try, even if you fall on your face, because I don't want you to grow up and have regrets for not trying. So when I get that fear, I think back to my mother who sacrificed so much for us and then didn't feel like she was able because of the moving, right? And having us as her commitment in my dad's career. So if I ever doubt it, I think of my mom and how she wasn't

really able to. So I'm like, get over yourself, Sage. You get in there and you try it for your mom, if for no other reason. Well, clearly that guiding philosophy has really served you very, very well. Congratulations in that. But I'm guessing some of that, what should we say, independence of thought and action is how you got in a little bit of trouble, maybe. Can you tell us that story with ESPN? And by the way, I don't want to put the slightest pejorative spin on that. I admire it, and it's a lot to take. We all had to go through our own cancellations or whatever the hell was going on during COVID for daring to have an opinion. But my sense of what happened to you is you barely raised an opinion. But tell us what happened.

Yeah. I'll say my poor mother and father during the last several years where, you know, no matter what, as, as you and I talked about a little bit, like no matter how old your kids are, they're still your kids and you're still worried and you're very protective. And so even at my age, my mom sometimes is like, can you not say that please? Can you take that post down? And she kind of gives up now. She's like, okay, forget it. It's too late. Basically, yes, I think there's a couple of things I said when I, you know, dared to speak on a podcast on an off day and a completely separate platform speaking about my experience as a biracial woman. My experience as a woman in a man's world growing up in NFL and NBA locker rooms in my career. And most importantly, my opinion on being forced to get the COVID vaccine

in order to keep my job at ESPN and Disney. And when I spoke up about it on a podcast separately, I literally, Dr. Drew had just come from the stupid grocery store pharmacy, getting the shot. And it was the very last day possible in order for me to be fully vaxxed by September 30th, 2021. So I was hot and I was actually really disgusted with myself for caving and giving in. But I have three kids. I am divorced and I'm 100% the financial supporter of the kids and my ex-husband, et cetera. So people say you have a choice. And I guess I did.

But when you have to support everyone, you have tough decisions to make. And so that day, on the very last day, I went and got the shot and came home emotional. Can I tell you the story real quick about the vaccine? Because I'll never forget walking into the pharmacy and I had red eyes and I sat down and the nurse, whoever she was, I think it was a nurse, hopefully, looked at me and said, are you okay? And I said, no. I said, I'm being forced to do this. And I think it's like, I'm devastated. I don't believe in this. I just want a little more research. This has happened so quickly. I'm no doctor, but it just doesn't feel right. It's so fast. And this woman looked

at me and she said, I am so sorry that you are being forced to do this. And this is so wrong. And she held my hand and she said, just close your eyes, sweetheart. And she put it in my arm. I get choked up because something in me changed at that moment where I'd always had control of my body. And at that moment, I didn't. And in order to keep my job and support my family and a job, by the way, that I loved, that dream, since I was 11 years old, I was living it. And I changed at that moment. So then I went home and did the podcast and Cutler said, can I ask you about that bandaid on your arm? And I swear to God, I forgot to take it off. I just, I was rushing. And I, so I just said, listen, I think it's sick and scary for any company to force their employees to do something like this. But

I complied because I love my job and I need my job. And it's Disney and it's a global company and I'm not surprised, but I'm disgusted. In the meantime, I complied. And that was the beginning of the end. And I will say this, I ended up filing a lawsuit because they suspended me with pay, but suspended me, took assignments away, made me publicly apologize and issued a statement, et cetera, while at the same time allowing my peers to go on ESPN platforms and speak about their politics and how upset they were about Roe versus Wade being overturned. And all I wanted was consistency, all or nothing. You don't allow some to speak, especially on air. I did mine separately because

I do believe journalistically that's not my job to spew my opinion about a vaccine or abortion on a sports network. That's just me, but I got in trouble for it. And because the punishment continued, I decided to stand up with this lawsuit. And it devastated me to have to make the decision. But I literally would not change a thing. I had so many people even at that network quietly come up and whisper or reach out to me and say thank you because they felt forced and so upset as well. So yes, the trajectory of my career and my life has changed drastically. But the night before the lawsuit dropped, I talked to each of my kids separately. At the time, they were 15, 17, and 19. And each one kind of handled it differently.

And I just wanted them to know, listen, this is what's happening tomorrow. There might be some headlines. But just know you don't have to defend me. You don't ever have to defend anything I'm saying, but if teachers ask, which they had, or coaches ask, which they had, or friends or friends' parents, which had all happened, I said, don't ever feel like you have to defend me. Just remind people, everybody has a right to their own opinion, including your mom, even if you disagree with your mom at some times. And so I just was choked up and I said, I'm sorry if anything comes at these years I had kept my mouth shut to

protect them because I didn't want them to feel any wrath that came towards me because they, people go after my kids on social media too. So as parents, we think we're protecting our kids from everything. But look, he was quietly watching me make myself smaller and go against what I was preaching to protect them. So I think we do a disservice. It's how you do it, certainly. But I'm preaching to them to be strong and to stand up. And I was doing the opposite. So I wouldn't change a thing.

And I'm proud now that I stood up. And no matter what, even if I fail everything I try, my kids and my son in particular saw their mom not cower to Disney when I was scared to death and didn't have the money to fight them. So I'm grateful for all of it. As God is my witness, that story you just told us is something that should be laid down in the history books. I hope that this little clip shows up when people think about and try to analyze this historical moment when government excess ruled the day throughout the world

to the point where you didn't just lose track of your career, but your body, your bodily integrity was violated because of an hysteria. And that hysteria was wrong. It got played out in the courts and they agreed with you. And you have no, other than the suit, you may have injured yourself with this and who's going to say, I'm sorry to you. This is the, I think you were, you're the word disgusting. You should be disgusted.

It was a disgusting chapter. And I want people to apologize who forced those things. I want people to rethink what their position was. Not that, oh my God, vaccines are all bad or that vaccines had no utility, uh, against the alpha and Delta outbreaks, but that people like you,

a young, healthy person were forced mandated by an, by a soulless employer and a government that put the employer in that position. It is disgusting. And thank God you did it. And thank God your kids have now a great role model. I hope your mom and dad understood you were channeling them. I know it made them anxious, but I hope they felt good about it because they should. What do you say?

I know. I know my parents are proud of me. I know I've caused them a lot of grief and stress, and I'll never forget one moment in particular when I was suspended. And the funny thing is, is I made the comments the day I got the shot. Two weeks later, when it came out, and then I was suspended, I came down with COVID. So the irony of it all was just too much. And so I was sick. And my father has two kinds of cancer and wasn't supposed to be around me, you know. And this is October 2021. And so my dad and mom got in their car. They lived in Pennsylvania at the time. And I'm outside of Hartford, Connecticut for the moment, moving soon. And my mom and dad came to my house. And when these lies and headlines were coming out, exaggerating everything I said, and the headlines were pretty bad, people made up lies to try to become part of a story about, you know, I think a lot of it is because of my politics as well. And if this was a chance to

bring me down, my mom and dad, and literally, I was on the floor, Dr. Drew, out of, yes, I was sick. I actually got super sick from COVID after getting that vaccine that guaranteed that I wouldn't get COVID. And lifted me up and put themselves at risk for my dad, you know, in his late seventies with, with going to therapy. Yeah. And so it was such a moment that was really hard and I was so worried about them. But it just taught me so much about, about being a parent and that love that you have no matter what and you put yourself at risk and I think you know I hope my kids never have to make that decision I will say and I've talked to them about it and my parents and um I 9-11 never forget

COVID never forget and and I'm not trying to compare fully, but when there are wrongs done, we cannot forget. And when I look back at giving in and being disgusted with myself for, I guess, caving, even though I felt like I had no choice, I'm more disgusted with the trust that I and others put into our government, our health officials, doctors, hospitals, all of it. And so I'm going to be one of those screaming from the mountaintops, like don't dare or go for it. Try me again. Because what I found was that by having a loud mouth and talking about these things and then standing up after I eventually lifted my eyes up off the ground, and I wasn't making eye contact in airports or even at my work, because I was told by my boss that everybody hated me. And I had, you know, embarrassed them and brought on such trouble for my employers and how terrible. Once I lifted my eyes up, I realized, oh my gosh,

I was speaking for others who also felt like they had no choice. So if this sounds dramatic and I'll shut up after this, but I now know why God put me on this earth to be a mother to Quinn Nicholas and Evan and to speak up for those who feel like they can't, including myself, all those years of feeling like I need to be quiet and behave and I don't want to be too much and I don't want to be too loud and I don't want to piss anybody off and now look what that got me even when you're the most loyal employee and you don't fit the right narrative they're going to get rid of you or crush you if you're a little bit different even though that's what we

preach is diversity and equity and tolerance and inclusion. So you've got to be true to yourself. Do it in a kind way, giving others grace, because I know what it's like to not receive that. And so I'm glad that it happened to me. And that's why I don't live in fear anymore. It's all been a real blessing. I can see that. And it's a blessing for others as well, because it's such a, it's such an illustration of what, what many people went through during that, that dark time. And, um, you said, uh, as you were finishing your comments there that you'll shut up,

don't do that anymore. Don't shut up. Don't even say I'll shut up. We do not want you to shut up. So no more of that but but i was thinking about your mom and her outspokenness and how she she's created frankenstein her own frankenstein i hope hope and she should be proud of it she'd be proud of it and finally before i take this really quick dr joe i think you'll love it this is perspective for me and then i'll shut up wait i can't say that my my mom's dad got married in 1971 my mom's white my dad's black on on my ex handle on my twitter handle it's been pinned there for six or seven years it's a beautiful story that nfl films did it's a long story about my parents and what they went through and and being a 1971 an unmarried couple and how their families handled it.

And it was ugly and it was devastating. So when I think about what I've been through, I have perspective. It is nothing compared to what my mom, the decision my mom had to make to marry a black man. Her family disowned her for for for doing that and to at 22 years make that choice right that that's the story that's my little niece um and so i have perspective about what they're there is that them that's my mom fantastic and they're 78 and 75 and so i love it all have to maintain perspective because yes, my stuff was not easy and my life has changed drastically and it's been embarrassing and scary, but like 53 years

married, my mom and dad, they pushed through so much more. And I think if we all look around us, our stories are real. But I also know of two people that are kind of awesome who went through more and have given me strength through it all but but in but in a way you know they're I'm glad they laid down their story and by the way I hope you'll write about yours because this stuff needs to be memorialized and by the way include their story in it because these are each historical you know stories of historic importance for the moment in which people were living.

And I would not diminish yours any more than with the crucible they carried. Yes, it was very difficult. And yes, they went through a lot, I'm sure, but you did too. And it was, I was just thinking about, you mentioned that your peers were able to, at the time that you were being dismissed

or at least sidelined, so to speak, they were talking about their political views on Roe versus Wade and bodily autonomy. And in the meantime, you had completely lost your bodily autonomy, completely. And the irony should be lost on no one. And that's the devastating thing, right? Again, I just, as a parent, you have to have consistency with your rules. And they just allowed the complete opposite. If I had gotten on that podcast and shamed people and called them anti-vaxxers and all those things, and you don't care about my grandma next door and all the things that so many people are saying, and some of the other things that I said that I guess were apparently controversial. If I had said those things,

I would have been celebrated. I would still be probably there. And that's why, honestly, for like 15 years, I began public speaking and working at ESPN, which was in 2007 when I had little babies. They were 11 months old, two and four, when I started at ESPN as this young mother and trying to juggle it all and scared. And I've always talked about diversity of thought,

first and foremost. If you begin with that, all the other diversity stuff, this, whatever it is, that's easy. And so I've always said that. And I'm laughing now because, and I'm not, I say that facially, it's the fact that people crush you for having a different thought process, different opinion, which again is based on experience. So I will never stop pushing that diversity of thought because you're a complete hypocrite if you push it in every other way without that being the primary one. And so I hope this audience sees how interesting Sage would be with that courage that's what that's what that is i know it doesn't feel like it but that's what you're you're doing it because you it just feels right okay and i i understand one things i've come to understand now is that when you're doing just what you know to be right it's it's it doesn't feel courageous because

you're just doing what's right but it also will create some very interesting conversation and a great podcast. And I'm just so glad you're doing it and bringing all of this sensibility to really interesting guests, too. That's the other part. I suspect you're going to pull things out of people they wouldn't say in other environments. So just congratulations on all this. Congratulations on standing up. Congratulations on your kids. Just so much to be thankful for and grateful for.

Not the least of which is that you shared some time with us here. Thank you so much. It's really been an honor. And I almost ruined my mascara, but I kept it in. I didn't want to mess your makeup up. By the way, Caleb, I bet you had a reaction. This is just, I mean, I'm kind of speechless right now. Yeah, that was just such a powerful story.

I was not what I was expecting. And I really think this pandemic, everything, it just really exposed the people in the industry who are the actual pioneers and the actual people with actual bravery. Like, people can go look it up online. The word I it's the word bravery. I think is, is it's the, it's the people that can know what's right. See what's right.

And when you know in your heart, yeah, when you know it's right, you, your action is simple. You just have to do what's right. And that's what you do. If you look at that story on X of my parents,

my dad made us kids memorize part of the cadet prayer because he went to West Point. And the part that we, to this day, I repeat it every day. And when I was young, it was annoying. Now I'm like, oh, my goodness. Help me to choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong and to never be content with a half truth when the whole can be one. That has guided me in everything as much as it was annoying to memorize as an eight-year-old kid. But we all usually know the harder right versus the easier wrong. And I'm done telling half-truths. Forget it. This is not what God put

us here to do is to hide out of fear. So all those push-ups I had to do as a little kid with those room inspections and the cadet prayer, it was worth it. And I just didn't think it would come out this way with a crazy lawsuit and everything else. But again, I know why I'm here. And I'm thankful for you. And I would love to do another surf and turf sharing dinner in LA sometime. Absolutely. Done and done.

And Sage, good luck with the move and your kids and everything. And tell them one more time where you want them to go. Yes. Hi. There it is time where you want them to go. Yes. Hi. There it is. The Sage Steele Show. It's on YouTube. I'm having a blast with that.

I didn't know about this whole YouTube thing. Oh, my goodness. Subscriptions, like and subscribe. Everywhere you get your podcasts. Did I say it right? Wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, our friend Drea. Did you talk to Drea recently?

Drea was our friend. She was amazing. And then at Laura Trump here at Trump Towers inrea was our friend. She was amazing. And then at Laura Trump here at Trump Towers in New York City, RFK was fascinating. Drove up a little controversy. Isn't he great? Yeah, really, really cool. And sharing what she's been through with Ozzy and to share that struggle with the man she loves. So I'm so grateful that they've opened up to me.

Yeah. All right. Thank you so much, Sage. We up to me. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much, Sage. We'll talk soon. Guys. You got it. And I will be back in mere moments with Corey DeAngelis. Many of us have not gotten over COVID.

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or just go to our website drdrew.com slash fatty15. Hey, Dr. Drew. Dr. Drew. You want to spend the whole session talking about Dr. Drew? There you go. Even you call him Dr. Drew. There you go. Even you call him Dr. Drew. And finally, a reminder, you can follow Sage Steele on X at Sage Steele, S-T-E-E-L-E, and sagesteele.com. Corey DeAngelis has been labeled the school choice evangelist, the most effective school choice advocate since Milton Friedman. He's the executive director

of Educational Freedom Institute, a senior fellow at Reason Foundation. The Parent Revolution is the book. Adjunct scholar at Cato Institute, board member at Liberty Justice Center, PhD in education policy from University of Arkansas. Follow him on X at DeAngelis Corey,

D-E-A-N-G-E-L-I-S, Corey, C-O-R-E-Y, and also FederationForChildren.org. Please welcome Corey DeAngelis. Corey, welcome. Hey, thanks for having me. So you made a little bit of a stir today when the Teachers Union took aim at you and a couple other folks. Tell me about that. Yeah, look, the teachers union, Randy Weingarten had me on a screen with Betsy DeVos and Chris Ruffo as their top three enemies. But well, listen to me, parents, they're not coming after me.

They're coming after you and your right to direct the upbringing of your children. I and other education freedom fighters are just standing in their way. But I actually dedicated the book to Randy Weingarten, The Parent Revolution. I dedicated it to her for overplaying her hand and inadvertently doing more to advance school choice and homeschooling than anyone could have ever imagined. The teachers unions held children's education hostage during COVID. They fought to keep the schools closed as long as possible. They engaged in fear mongering every step of the way. They wanted to keep the schools closed as long as possible. They engaged in fear-mongering every step of the way. They wanted to get ransom payments from taxpayers. They got a lot of money,

but they showed families what was happening in the classroom, which has led to unprecedented expansions of school choice all across the country. And yeah, there's from her event the other day. They had their annual convention in Houston, Texas, and they labeled us three as their top three enemies, Chris Ruffo, myself, and Betsy DeVos. And look, when you're catching flack like this, it means you're over the target. We've had 12 states pass universal school choice in the past three years alone.

Since 2021, we've had more expansions on school choice than in the preceding three decades. And it's Randy Weingarten's own fault. They tried to leverage those school closures for more money. They were actually, I mean, the Chicago Teachers Union deleted a tweet saying, quote, the push to reopen schools is rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. Randy was threatening strikes in 2020. She was calling President Trump's plan to

reopen schools reckless, callous, and cruel. And guess what? You know this. They also lobbied the CDC to make it more difficult to reopen schools. That hurt kids in a lot of ways, but it also exposed the rot in the government school system, which woke up parents like we've never seen before. A couple of things. Caleb, put that picture back up of Corey being enemy number one. That reminds me of a scene from Animal House when they're putting up pictures of a possible, you know, sort of what do they call them when somebody's rushing the fraternity members, they're throwing eggs at it and throwing pictures up there and spitting on it. It's just such a bizarre impulse to put somebody's picture on a big screen like that and then take

aim at them. It's just ridiculous. The other thing, I had an interesting experience. You mentioned sexism and it just occurred to me that I was doing a nightly news broadcast on the local channel 11 in Los Angeles. And we were at 7 o'clock at night, and we'd every night sort of update what's going on with COVID. And we were there the night that the LA Unified School District decided to close, right? And there's footage of me talking to one of the school board members going, why are you doing this? What consultant? What infectious disease doctor?

I couldn't believe it i was like where did you get this idea from we just think it's the right thing to do so okay they do it fast forward a year uh where where there's talk about opening things up if you remember gloves and lucite sheets and nonsense things that just interfere with the flow of air through a classroom and made the probability of transmission worse but in any event i had what i think was like the she must have been the like the secretary of the union or something or it was not it was not the la unified representative it was somebody from the teachers union and she's like and she was going through this is live on television she's going through this list of things of demands that

the teachers needed to open the schools and i said okay let's do it that's great okay you want those things let's do it how long is it going to take and she goes well and i go yeah how long how long to do that how much is it going to cost how How long to do it? You're a sexist. You're a sexist. That was her response to me going, let's go do this. Let's do it now. You want that? Let's get it. What's it going to take?

How much is it going to cost? How long are we going to do it? You're a sexist. Literally, that's how insane they were at the time. I mean, Dr. Drew, the problem is they'd moved the goalposts every step of the way, too. They put the teachers at the front of the vaccine lines. That wasn't good enough. They called for more money. That wasn't good enough. In LA in particular,

their union put out a report on safely reopening the schools. We knew they were going to ask for more money. They did that everywhere. But they also included in their list of demands, police-free schools, a Medicare for all, a wealth tax, a ban on charter schools, things that had nothing to do with reopening the schools. And it just showed you they overplayed their hand. They showed their true colors. And Cicely Meyer Cruz, the boss of the Teachers Union in LA, she actually said that there's no such thing as learning loss. I mean, they tried to hide from any form of accountability whatsoever. In LA as well, on Facebook, they had a private union Facebook group where they told

their members, well, if you're going to go vacation in Cozumel or wherever overseas, then it's fine, but don't post about it. Because they saw in Chicago, their board member was vacationing in Puerto Rico and got a lot of backlash because she was saying it wasn't safe enough to go back to work. But vacation, that's fine. Thousands of miles away. Get on a plane. No problem. But not a classroom.

Not without loose site sheets between students and teachers. Ridiculous. So I think people get. The private schools were open. The private schools were open. Well, the politicians had to send their kids somewhere, Corey. The governor and the assembly needed to send their kids somewhere. And the mayor and the county supervisors, I mean, their kids needed to go to school. Meanwhile, Governor Newsom, we all heard about the French laundry stuff, but he also got some pushback after he went on the news complaining about public school, Zoom school that wasn't working, while he was sending his own kids to in-person private

school in Sacramento. Of course. I mean, school choice for me, but not for the open schools for me, but not for the total hypocrisy. So back to what you are advocating for, I've got some questions and I want to clarify things for people that are interested in the topic because there's sort of three, first of all, I'd like to know i really want to know i really want to understand why it seems and i think this is generally true that the average teacher in the public school system is against charter schools and and it seems so counter intuitive to me i've known some very very public school teachers, a lot of them very old school, much older, who are really concerned about charter schools. And I want to understand

it. And so I've questioned them about it. And it gets down to, we're going to lose funding, I think. And the kids that need the funding are going to lose the funding. I think that's what it gets down to. Am I right, or is there something more there? It's fear mongering from people at the top like Randy Weingarten who make over $500,000 a year. The money's there. I mean, look at over time since 1970 in the U.S., per student education funding has increased by 170% after adjusting for inflation. Teacher salaries have only gone up by about 10% over the same period. So the money's not making its way into the classroom. It goes towards administrative bloat, staffing surges. Of course. It's like healthcare, same thing.

It's the same problem. Same thing as healthcare. Since 2000, we have data looking nationwide. The number of students and teachers in the system have been steadily increasing since that time by about 7%. But the number of administrators in the system increased by 90%. But look, the main argument that the unions will put forth is that this is stealing money from the public schools. But the money doesn't belong to the government schools. It's meant for educating the kids. It should follow them to the institution that works best for them. That could be the public school that they're assigned to. If you want that option, that is still on the table. Uh, but the people making this argument, they have no confidence in the product that they're delivering. If you think that

everybody's going to flee when given the choice, what does that tell you about how confident you are in the services that you're providing? The best public schools won't be worried because they're doing a good job. So help people understand the difference between what you mean by school choice, charter schooling, homeschooling. I think people get a little bit kind of uncertain about what we're discussing there versus public education. In the traditional system in most states, you live where you live and you're assigned to a school just based on where you live. It makes no sense. Just imagine if we did this with groceries or with restaurants. If you were assigned to a government-run grocery store,

they were giving you groceries that gave you food poisoning each day. Maybe the shelves were empty. And in order to get something else, you had to pick up your bags and move houses to get access to a better grocery store. That would make zero sense. It would cause a lot of monopoly power in the system. And that's the same problem we have with government schools today. If you want to get access to a better so-called public school, which I don't like to call them public schools because families have actually lied about their address and gone to jail or been fined for doing so to get into better so-called public schools because they discriminate on the basis of zip code. Or you have to pay out of pocket. You have to pay twice, essentially, if you want to go to a private school, once through the tax system for the public school, and then again out of pocket

for the private school. And that also makes zero sense. And it creates a lot of monopoly power for the traditional system. And so what do I mean by school choice? Any policy that allows the money that's meant for educating your child to follow that student to the school that works best for them. That could be another public school that you're not assigned to. That could be a charter school, which is still defined as a public school in most states, but it's also independently operated. Or it could be a scholarship mechanism where that money that would have followed you to the government school, you could take it there again if you want. But if not, you could take a fraction of those dollars to a private school to

pay for tuition and fees. That's the basic mechanism. More recently, it's been education savings accounts, much like health savings accounts. But it's the money that would have followed you to the government school that you're assigned to. A portion of it can go into your parent-directed education savings account. And then you can use it for private school. You could use it for charter school. You could use it for home-based education, including curriculum or private tutors and so on, any approved education expenditure, the money follows the child is the basic concept of school choice.

It's still, when you describe it like that, it's mysterious to me why charter schools would be threatening. I don't get it. It's still a public school system. I don't get it. I guess the administrators get less money that way. That's the problem. And something that I don't get it. I guess the administrators get less money that way. That's the problem. And something that I didn't point out a second ago is that, look, in the US, we spend about $20,000. If you look at the National Center for Education Statistics, it's $20,000 per kid per year in the government schools. That's state sources, local sources, and federal sources. When school choice policies pass, it's typically just the state portion of the funding, which is about half of the total, let's say 10,000, that follows the student. So on a per-student basis, the public schools actually financially benefit.

They get to keep thousands of dollars for students that are no longer educating. The problem is they hear from the union fear-mongering from Randy Weingarten, and they also, they want to keep 100% of the funding. They don't want to just keep 50% of the funding, but that is a good deal for them. I mean, just imagine if you stopped shopping at Walmart, you wanted to go to Safeway or Trader Joe's, and Walmart got to keep half of your grocery money each week. That'd be a good deal for Walmart. I argue this is also a good deal for the public schools. They get to keep any money at all for kids that are no longer there.

What is it about you three that makes you public enemy number one to Randy Weingarten? Well, Dr. Drew, we're winning so much, I'm almost getting tired of winning. We haven't seen this much advancement on school choice ever. I mean, but it's their own fault. And we rub it in their face as the reality is that the unions did this to themselves. A lot of people say I'm a pretty influential school choice advocate, but the school choice MVP of the last three years is Randy Weingarten, Becky Pringle, and the teachers unions, because it's their own fault. They've been stepping in it over and over again. They've been so drunk on power for so long. They just can't reverse course. And school choice is also becoming a political winner. You think about in Texas, at my home state, you had 21 so-called Republicans joined all the Democrats

in voting against school choice, blocking it in the House last year in my home state of Texas. Well, in the primaries, now 14 of those guys are gone. Basically, that is impossible because incumbents usually win their reelection 95% of the time. And for far too long in K-12 education, the only special interest represented the employees employees the adults in the system but now thankfully the kids have a union of their own and they're called parents they're showing up at school board meetings we saw how well that worked out uh with the department of justice basically labeling them as domestic terrorists the fbi created a threat tag specifically

for parents protesting at school board meetings about curriculum disagreements. The unions told us for a long time the public schools were democratically accountable. If you don't like it, you can just show up at the school board meetings. They'll listen to you. They didn't want to listen to us. They cut off our mics. They called us domestic terrorists. But guess what? Parents banded together, and 26 states have since left the National School Boards Association after they sent that letter to the Biden administration. And we now have 12 states with universal school choice. In 2020, there were zero states with universal school choice. What do I mean by that?

Every single family, regardless of income, background, zip code in those those states can all take their kids' education dollars to the school that works best for them. And it doesn't have to be a public school. It can be a private school or a home-based education option as well. This is, it's just, it's a sea change in support for the issue among elected officials. Democrats have been against it for a long time.

And that's only because the Democratic Party is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Teachers Union. You think about Randy Weingarten's union. 99.97% of her campaign contributions from AFT went to Democrats in 2022. It's a money laundering operation. It ought to be illegal. It's been like that for decades. But now parents have woken up, and they're taking their energy to the ballot box too. And we saw what happened with Terry McAuliffe in Virginia. The Democrat, former governor of Virginia in a state that went 10

points to Biden the year before, he lost after saying, I don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach on the debate stage. Glenn Youngkin, the Republican, leaned into parental rights as a political winner. And that, I hope, and I talk about in chapter four of the parent revolution, will lead to some Democrats coming along too, because now they got to deal with the kids union and not just the teachers union. And we have seen some Democrats defect on the issue in recent years. And that's good news for parents and and i although what the media portrayed and with the way the justice department sort of labeled the uh domestic terrorist parents seemed like they were mostly white parents but but my understanding is that

parents of color are some of the biggest enthusiasts for, for instance, charter school and school choice. Absolutely. You look at the polling from my home state of Texas, the biggest supporters of school choice in the poll were black Democrats. So, I mean, the union narrative is completely backwards. And if you think about in the 1950s, the unions actually locked arms with staunch segregationists against school vouchers because they knew getting an opportunity for students who didn't have it before would lead to more racial integration and socioeconomic integration, whereas the union will claim the opposite. But also, if you think about Florida, Governor DeSantis, he won by 20 points in 2022.

We know this. But back in 2018, he barely won by a fraction of a point against Andrew Gillum, the Democrat. A lot of people thought he was going to the Democrat was going to win. The headline in The Wall Street Journal the next day was that school choice moms tipped the governor's race in Florida. They were looking at CNN exit polling, finding that black moms in particular came out in force for DeSantis, much higher than expected. And the story was that his opponent, Andrew Gillum, a black Democrat, actually came out against the voucher program, benefiting over 100,000 kids at the time, which were disproportionately low income and non-white kids. Those parents might have become single issue voters on this because they wanted their kid to get a better opportunity. They wanted that scholarship to get their kid into a better,

to have a better future. And so they might have disagreed with DeSantis on everything else, but school choice was so important to them that that might have put DeSantis over to give them enough votes to actually win in 2018. And the whole country would have been different if things would have turned out differently in Florida because Florida was a beacon of hope with the schools opened before everywhere else and COVID. And it was despite the best efforts of the union. They sued DeSantis. The Florida Education Association sued DeSantis to try to keep the schools closed. Thankfully, they lost. Wow. So talk to me a little bit about modern homeschooling. It's not, you know, I think, you know, before I, Caleb, you might want to come in on this too, but I used to think of

homeschooling as sort of conspiracy theorists holding their kids at home so they're not exposed to any evil ideas. You know what I mean? And this is sort of the- You're getting real personal here, Drew. It really sounds like you're talking about someone specific right now.

Well, no, I actually thought of it that way before I met you, but you were the one that told me that, yeah, sometimes that motivated things a long time ago, but reality of the school itself was very evolved. There was a whole system in place, and there was not just the educational system, but there was a social and even sports thing attached to it. So it's a whole different, it's a very evolved, highly effective educational system now. Yeah, and I will say there are forms of socialization

that are not positive in the government school system. I went to government schools all through K-12 education, and kids were playing this game called 10 seconds. You'd fight each other for 10 seconds. That was the fun thing to do. And people were getting rolled into gangs in the bathrooms. That was the cool thing to do. People were doing drugs and other promiscuous activities as well. So, hey, socialization is not always good socialization. And when you homeschool your kids, you before the schools all closed because of the COVID issue, Elizabeth Bartholet was a Harvard professor, put out an 80-page law review article arguing to have a presumptive ban on homeschooling. And she used all of these outlier cases to try to argue why, well, there might be some abuse at home, so we got to outlaw homeschooling for everybody. I mean, it was basically turning the

fourth amendment on its head, making everybody guilty until proven innocent. This is a slippery slope that I don't want to go down. And look, they don't bring that same energy to the government school system. One in 10 kids are estimated to experience educator sexual misconduct by the time they graduate from high school. And do we call to shut down all the public schools because of that? No, we make sure that if there is abuse, we take care of it and we should do that at the home and we should also do it with the government school system as well. But we shouldn't say, oh, because 0.1% of people might not get homeschooling right, then nobody should be allowed to direct the

upbringing of their children. But you're right, homeschooling doesn't look the same. And one of the big things that's kind of increased lately is hybrid homeschooling, where maybe you go into a brick and mortar school a couple times a day, a couple times a week, the rest of the week, you'll do it at home. Or maybe it's fewer hours per day, or maybe it's a homeschool co-op or a micro school. I mean, people kind of figured this out during COVID when we started to call these things pandemic pods, where you get five to 10 children together in a household and you basically economize on the process of homeschooling. You either band together school resources and hire

one tutor or teacher for your school at home with 10 children, or you could have one teacher be a parent that is good at math. A friend of mine did that, though, and he almost got arrested. I don't know what the deal, back in California, it was just ridiculous. Susan, could you put on the phone thing? Adam's calling me, and he has a lot of interesting things to say about the phone deal. The phone. It's in. Just turn it on.

There on the board. There we are. Might not work. Oh, it will work. Hey, can you hear me, Adam? Yeah. You're live on our stream right now, and I called you up because I'm talking to Corey DeAngelis about school.

Do you guys? I don't think they can hear each other. Yes, they can hear. And we're talking about school choice and charter schools. And I thought you called and I thought, oh, you have strong feelings about this. I thought I'd give you a chance to just kind of ring in on your position on it and maybe ask Corey any questions you might have. Yeah, well, the last time we did this, I couldn't hear your gas. Oh, can you hear Corey? Say hello. See if he can hear you.

Hey, Adam, how's it going? Can you hear him? No. Okay. Well, go ahead and give me. Why would it be different than the last time we did this? You know why? Because the question is we're in New York in a totally different system. And I had hopes. Oh, all right.

I would have known. That's a viable answer. No, I knew it wasn't going to work. But Susan knew like you it wouldn't work. But anyways, he'll repeat whatever. Yeah, if you have any questions, Corey's an expert in this whole situation. And I've heard you talk about it many times.

And just sort of drop something in here and let's see what Corey says about it. All right. I am not an expert, but I like competition. And we understand that competition brings out the best in all facets of life, automotive, manufacturing, sports, and all the like. But for some reason, when it comes to schools, we've just decided that the LAUSD needs to have a monopoly. And I don't like it. I don't think the test scores, I think the test scores support me not liking it and certainly covid supports it because i don't want

one paranoid corrupt group who's in charge of getting gavin newsom re-elected in charge of when we can open schools or whether to shut schools or any of it so uh in general i like competition in general i uh think statistically it favors the most vulnerable, the people I always talk about, the black and the brown kids that fight violently against it, which suggests to me it must be a good thing if the teachers' unions have a big problem with it. All right, I will call you back later and tell you what Corey says. Thank you for that, all right?

Thank you. All right, man, thank you. He's got a great point though, right? Which is having a monopoly prevents competition and their instinct he immediately distrust and they are the same people that brought us a re-election of gavin newsom yeah that's absolutely right and i've been on adam's show a couple of times it's been a while so if you can remind him hey i'd like to join him again soon that'll be great but look he's right

absolutely there are 29 studies on the subject of school choice competition on the outcomes in the public schools. 26 of the 29 studies find positive effects. School choice is a rising tide that lifts all boats. Competition works in every industry. It works in the education sector as well. But that's why the teacher genius don't like it. They don't want to have to compete. They want to be able to twiddle their thumbs all day, not do anything. They want to be able to close the schools during the COVID era

and have nobody ask questions about it. No other profession did this. And I don't blame the teachers. I blame the system itself because of the incentives that are baked into it. They didn't just keep their same job security and pay, whereas no other industry did this. They also actually profited

from keeping the schools closed. They were able to say, hey, we're closed because we need more money. They do the same thing over and over again. It's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. And in places like Chicago, they received about $5 billion in so-called COVID relief, $190 billion nationwide in so-called COVID relief since March of 2020. And look, the radical left has figured out that they can infiltrate the government school system and control the minds of other people's children. They don't even have to have their own kids anymore. That's why the parent revolution is so important. Because look, even if you don't have your own kids or if you're

homeschooling your own kids, they can drift this country in a more leftward or progressive direction without even having their own kids. You can't win this war just by outpopulating them because 50 million kids go through the government school system every year for 13 years of their lives for seven hours a day. You have to strike at the root of the problem. And one way to do that is to fight back at the school board meetings. And if they don't listen to you, go and push for the money to follow the child so that they have an incentive to listen to you.

Maybe if you go to the school board next time and you have your money and you can say, Hey, I can go somewhere else and take my money with me. Maybe the school board will say, okay, let's not turn this guy's mic off. Let's not label him as an evil person or try to drag him out of here in cuffs or try to mobilize the FBI to rain down havoc on parents for having the audacity to want to have more of a say in their kid's education. Let's maybe listen to this person and try to be a partner, try to treat them as a customer as opposed to treating them as an evil person. So almost counterintuitively, when you have school choice, because of that competition, it almost reduces the likelihood that you need to use it because

the public schools up their game. This happened in Florida too. In Florida, over the past couple of decades, since they've expanded school choice, they've improved their outcomes on a system-wide basis. A couple decades ago, they were at the bottom of the pack in the nation's report card on their test scores for math and reading. Fast forward to today, the U.S. News and World Report ranked Florida number one for education. Wow. And they're at the top five for the nation's report card, despite spending far less than the national money. Well, it's never

been about the money in terms of getting the quality of education. That so clearly has been shown over and over again. Caleb, I wonder if you have anything more to add to the conversation on homeschooling. I do have a question, actually. I don't know if you researched any of this, but I was actually homeschooled K through 12.

So I was homeschooled all the way back in the days, actually in Texas as well. So I know that homeschoolers are a very powerful force there. We used to show up, I guess it was almost every year back when George Bush was the governor there. And we would show up in lines and lines of parents and kids middle of the day for the homeschool day that was at the Texas Capitol. So we were very involved in that politically. And I remember the thing, my parents, they weren't so much in favor of this idea because they were afraid that the moment you start taking a dollar from the government, then the government finds ways to get their claws in to your own, to what you're actually trying to do, which is to separate your kids from the government. So how is this school choice? How does it get around that issue of the government

then wanting to make little changes if you're taking their dollars? Yeah, thanks, Caleb. The argument is that with government shekels comes government shackles. But the reality is you can get the shackles without the shekels. And the government does regulate homeschooling in places like New York. They don't have any private school choice, and they have the worst homeschooling laws on the books. You have to take the state test for the right to educate your own kids at home in Oregon in 1922.

Guess what they did? They outlawed private education altogether. You had to send your kid to Caesar. Thankfully, three years later, in 1925, Pierce versus Society of Sisters, the Supreme Court ruled famously, quote, the child is not the mere creature of the state. But basically, Caleb, I don't want us to make perfect the enemy of the good. We should take the incremental win. This is all voluntary. No one's forced to take the money. We should fight against any regulation if that ever comes.

But look, if you're on Randy Weingarten's side and Joe Biden's side and not my side and Milton Friedman's side, you're probably on the wrong side when it comes to freedom and education. And guess what? The Texas Homeschool Coalition is in favor of our bill every year. And by the way, when you have more school choice, look, politics is all about organized interests pushing for what they want. The unions do it all the time.

When you have school choice, you get more people benefiting from private and home education. You create a broader coalition to fight back against those authoritarians in office when they do come to take away your right to educate your kids. So look, eternal vigilance is the price of liberty and we have a better chance of winning this battle with school choice because we create a broader tech.

It's called school choice. Like, it's not like school forced. You're not forced to homeschool. You're not forced to take their money. You're not forced to do it. School choice, which that makes sense to me. Well, listen, this is all interesting. I'm glad you're in there stirring it up. I worry that education is our most significant problem in this country. I mean, you can trace almost every problem back to school systems and how our kids are educated. And I'm not talking about what you guys were just discussing in terms of how kids are being indoctrinated

or how the, what'd you call it, the shekels and the shackles get involved with education. I'm really just worried about the quality of the education that kids are getting and us being able to compete on an international basis in a world where

China and Japan and all these other countries are going to eat our lunch easily no problem and then when people go to college they might be getting some intellectual development but it's often in areas that have no real utility and are not connected to reality, even in terms of the thinking process.

Susan, you want to say something? Well, but that's the whole plan by China, right? They want to take those Harvard spots. They want us to be dumb and mandated to stay home. They may not want those Harvard spots. Well, they're going to take the science spots. Yes, they do. They're going to take dumb and mandated to stay home. They may not want those Harvard spots. Well, they're going to take the science spots. Yes, they do. They're going to take the engineering and science spots.

They want to get in any way they can. That's true. Sorry. But, Corey, where do you want people to go to learn more? What kind of support do you need? And where can people follow you? You can follow me on ex-formerly Twitter. It's at DeAngelisCorey.

And get a copy of The Parent Revolution. It's a national bestseller. It's endorsed by Trump. You can take Senator Ted Cruz's advice from my home state of Texas. He says on the back, you can ruin Randy Weingarten's day by reading this book. And guess what? It's a limited time deal on Amazon right now. 36% off. Yeah, so there's the Trump endorsement as well. Look it up. You can just Google the parent revolution, use whatever search engine you want. It'll pop up. And it's making the teachers' union's mind explode right now. There was a teachers' union boss in Wisconsin, actually, called to burn the book. They're total hypocrites on this issue.

They're calling us book banners for running appropriate content. Don't see the irony of educators calling for book banners for running appropriate content. Don't see the irony of educators calling for book banners. No irony in saying that. Well, I will send Adam your request to be on his program. I'm sure you guys will heat it up there too.

And we appreciate you being here. We'll talk to you again soon, Corey. Hey, thank you so much. You got it. DeAngelis, Corey DeAngelis interesting stuff today I hope you guys enjoyed it tomorrow let's get

Dr. Kelly Victory makes a repeat performance here she comes back to join us we'll get some update from her and Harry Fisher joins as well Susan's show is tomorrow Kelly Victory is going to be on that show she's doing my show too

talking about we're going to call out the government we're going to talk about the government. We're going to talk about the Trump assassination. Oh my God, she's dying to talk about that. Oh.

And we're going to talk about the future of Ozempic and a little bit of psychic intuition on COVID-19 and that whole experience. That's all Dr. Kelly stuff. And then next Tuesday,

I believe it's Tuesday, Peter Navarro in here. He was just out of prison. Fresh out of prison. Yeah, I don't think Susan understands how big a deal that one is. Wait, he's the guy whose brother was with us? Is that the same guy? Did we have Peter Navarro?

Oh, that guy's out of jail too. Yeah, we got to get him on. Yeah, that would be a big deal also. Naomi Wolf just signed up for next week as well. John Bowden comes in. Christine Anderson. Just so much coming up. Do stay with us.

We appreciate you being here, supporting the show, supporting the people that support us. Anything else, Caleb, before I wrap this up? No, that's all very good. That was a great episode. Interesting, right? Yeah, good episode as always.

And a reminder about, we're talking about mattress toppers for a second. Susan, I love the one we got from mypillow.com. They make a difference in the quality of sleep amongst other things. Right now, Mike Lindell has a special for our audience when you use code DR, D-R-E-W at checkout, or when you go to mypillow.com slash drdrew,

you get 50% off the Queen and King toppers. They're so nice over there. Think about redirecting your hard earned dollars to an American company that respects and appreciates you as their customer go to mypillow.com slash dr drew and check out mystore.com slash dr drew appreciate y'all being here we will see you tomorrow at noon with dr kelly victory get those towels ask dr drew is produced by caleb nation and susan pinsky as a, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only.

I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me, call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.