Ask Dr. Drew - Scott Adams (Creator of Dilbert) on AI Bias, Getting Cancelled, SNL, The Simulation & Performative Wokeness w/ Dr. Kelly Victory – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 209

Episode Date: April 29, 2023

“Am I the first human to be in a deathmatch with an AI?” Scott Adams asked Twitter. The mega-bestselling author and creator of Dilbert speaks out about biased censorship of AI technologies like ChatGPT, the performative aspects of “woke” ideology, living in the aftermath of being “cancelled”, and how being parodied on SNL is a convincing example of the Simulation Hypothesis. Scott Adams is the creator of Dilbert, which has over 70 million books and products in print. He is also a prolific podcaster who uses his training as a hypnotist and lifelong student of persuasion to analyze current events through the lens of persuasion. Online, Scott Adams is renowned for his provocative discussions about politics, censorship, and media bias. Order Scott Adam’s book LOSERTHINK on Amazon. Watch more Dr. Drew episodes with Scott Adams: https://drdrew.com/people/scott-adams/ Follow Scott Adams at https://scottadams.locals.com/ and https://twitter.com/scottadamssays 「 SPONSORED BY 」 • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. Hundreds of millions of people have received a COVID-19 vaccine, and serious adverse reactions are uncommon. Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician and Dr. Kelly Victory is a board-certified emergency specialist. Portions of this program will examine countervailing views on important medical issues. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 WITH DR. KELLY VICTORY 」 Dr. Kelly Victory MD is a board-certified trauma and emergency specialist with over 30 years of clinical experience. She served as CMO for Whole Health Management, delivering on-site healthcare services for Fortune 500 companies. She holds a BS from Duke University and her MD from the University of North Carolina. Follow her at https://earlycovidcare.org and https://twitter.com/DrKellyVictory. 「 GEAR PROVIDED BY 」 • BLUE MICS - Find your best sound at https://drdrew.com/blue • ELGATO - See how Elgato's lights transformed Dr. Drew's set: https://drdrew.com/sponsors/elgato/ 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome. We are privileged today, first of all, to have Dart Kelly Victory with us, as we often do on Wednesdays, except it's a Thursday this week. And we are welcoming Scott Adams. He, of course, is the creator of Dilbert. He has declared a death match with artificial intelligence. I'll tell you a little bit about that. He is a mega bestselling author, as I said, as well as creator of Dilbert. He has recently gone through an interesting experience with censorship and cancellation. And Kelly is very interested in getting into more detail about that. So we will talk about that experience and what that is and why are we doing this and what it means. And also what he means by death match with AI. And I would be privileged to welcome my friend, Scott Adams,

right after this. And we're also going to talk about friend, Dot Adams, right after this. And we're going to also going to talk about, when I return, something I did today in Washington, D.C. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician.

I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. You have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say.

TD Direct Investing offers live support. So whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, you can make your investing steps count. And if you're like me and think a TFSA stands for Total Fund Savings Adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. And before we welcome our guests, I want to talk a little bit about what I was doing today down in Washington, D.C. Speaking on behalf of a group called SAM, also they have a drug policy group as well. And if you notice in the opening of this sequence, you have me speaking out about the draconian nature of our drug laws in this country. And I've been very concerned about that.

I'm just interested in rational conversations about substances. I am not interested in people going to jail. I'm not interested in it being a big... I'm not really interested in the legal and policing aspects. I'm interested in the medical aspects. And we have real honest conversation about that. So I had a chance to talk about that today. There is a QR code we're going to put up here if you want to support organizations like this.

There they are. Their concern is that the big cannabis is becoming big tobacco, big tobacco and big alcohol are both into big cannabis and thus are not allowing people like me to talk rationally about the, uh, the medical things we are seeing much the way they wouldn't let us physicians talk about tobacco when it was, uh, being clear that there was a big problem there as well.

Uh, again, uh, I'm agnostic about some of the legal stuff myself. Uh, definitely don't want people going to prison because of it. Uh, but I do want to be able to talk rationally about it and my daughter herself has suffered some very severe consequences

from it and she actually came and spoke about it so that was a great event so there was that susan uh there we are there i'm with uh sam again sam sam is the organization was there a name i'm missing yeah well do you know what it's called? You want me to? Smart Approaches to Marijuana. Yeah. So if you go to smart approaches or ask about sam.com. We've got it all up there. We've had it up there the whole time.

You can learn more about it. It's learnaboutsam.org. Sorry. Learn about Sam. I don't have the thing in front of me. But I was really touched by how these people were looking for ways to save lives in our children's future. It's just so astounding at the levels of THC that these kids are ingesting and the mental

health problems that are coming from it. So check it out if you have anybody health problems that are coming from it. So check it out. If you have anybody you love that's going through this, it's an interesting program. And speaking of 420, I teach she. Let's welcome my friend Scott Adams to the program. Scott, how are you, sir? Welcome.

I'm great. Thanks. How are you? I'm good. So I don't think you have met my partner on this program, Dr. Kelly Victor. She's an ER doctor and she's worked in public health and she's a psychologist.

And she's very interested in talking to you about your third rail experience with cancellation, as well as your more recent death match with artificial intelligence. But, and by the way, I've noticed on your morning stream, well, talk to us where people can find you first. Where do you want people to go to listen to your material? Well, if you want to subscribe and see the new Dilbert Reborn

and my side comic, Robots Read News, and a bunch of other stuff in my live streams, you can go to scottadams.locals.com. And if you just want to watch the live streams i'm on youtube every day just look for coffee with scott adams that's uh seven o'clock pacific time correct every day yeah that's right scott's one of these guys that does not does not like sleep he does not dig sleep at all it's a waste of time which it is but when you need sleep you you would like happily cash it in if you could but when you're not like you who can tolerate no sleep it becomes an issue i don't know if i'm tolerating it or it's taking 10 points off

my iq and i can't tell the difference you know i mean if you're the dumb one, other people are going to tell you, you don't know it yourself. I don't know. According to Google, your IQ is like 190, so therefore you wouldn't miss many of those IQ points. Yeah, just for the benefit of your audience. I did try to see if I could make my IQ appear to be 185 on online. And apparently some people who are fans of mine made that happen. So if you use your digital devices at home,

it'll tell you my IQ is I think 190 fluctuates between 200 and 160 online. So funny. And, and by the way, the Dilbert on rumble is a little more um it's racy dilbert it's a little more uh heated dilbert than it had been on the uh cover of the comics spicier yeah it turns out if you started if you started doing a humor 35 years ago and you did it in a newspaper that's supposed to be for all ages. The number of topics that I'd been self-censoring, plus the things that they would have censored for me if I hadn't, was just all the good stuff.

Their entire fields of things that are highly relevant to the office, I couldn't even talk about it at all so i can do it all now it's uh behind a paywall so prepare for some uh office uh office sex talk i'm imagining but but uh the point the reason you're yeah the reason dilbert is over there though is that he was taken off you were were taken off all the newspapers because you essentially hit a third rail topic that, as usual, it wasn't what you said. This is the first lesson I've learned of cancellation, which is it's never what you said. It's always out of context and what somebody said you said. It's never what you said.

And you are given no opportunity to say your piece or to explain yourself. That is not part of the cancellation game. Yeah, I literally was not asked, was there any context or what did you mean? Or, you know, do you want to take it back? Or would you like to clarify it? I just found out I was canceled. Now, the other filter I put on this is it's not really about me, if you think about it. Basically, I become a thing around which people can define themselves.

So people need to respond to the public. So the public says, hey, I'm the kind of person who must rail against this provocation. And then the newspaper editors say, hey, I'm the kind of person who cares about this sort of thing. So it was a lot about how people needed to essentially present themselves. I feel like very few people cared about my opinion, especially since they never really heard it. They heard one little thing out of context, which out of context would be horrifying. And of course, it was meant to be provocative, but I thought it would stay a smaller provocation. I thought it would be my audience would get mad. And then I would draw

people to my topic, which was the point. I wanted people to get like hopping mad. And then I'd say, all right, now I have your attention. Here's the problem. And the problem I wanted to address was that we have so many things going on from ESG to DEI to CRT that all have one thing in common, which is horrible, which is they're all backwards looking and they're sort of a victim based ideology. Now, if you took any two groups, forget about race, just randomly pick two groups and separate them just scientifically and say one of them is going to look backwards and make sure that they're complaining and feeling bad about everything that's happened before, which is all real. You don't want to lose that. I'm not saying you should hide history. I'm just saying that if you compare that to a nothing will stop me, there may be many obstacles, systemic racism might be one among many obstacles, but we all have a path which we can succeed.

So I would prefer the conversation be shifted from the toxic past, who's the victim, who's the oppressor, and focus it on how can you make everybody more successful. Specifically, people who don't have access to mentors, don't have access to other successful people that they can use as a role model. And at the moment, the world is actually full of advice that you can get for practically nothing. You just Google it, how to succeed.

I wrote a book, but I don't need to sell that. The larger point is that plenty of people have excellent books. In fact, that's the way I succeeded, primarily by studying other people. People like to tell their story. How would you do it? So you just figure out how people did it,

and then you find the patterns, and you can reproduce it. So that's a forward-looking, nothing can stop me, I've decided to succeed kind of thing. And especially if you're poor, you're coming from some bad neighborhood, you're going to need every strategic advantage. And looking backwards is basically a crippling mindset looking forwards this kind of works for everybody yeah the looking backwards i had not really thought about this you know my own family was escaping the whole of domar and uh they just left and did not look back in fact it wasn't until my uncle was uh dying of cancer that I started asking questions about where everyone came from.

Because we were always told we were Russian. You're just Russian. You're Russian. We came, we're just Russia. And all they could talk about is how terrible it was when they got here with the depression and blah, blah, blah. We soldiered on. But the obscure past, it turned out we were Ukrainian and just all this stuff I didn't even know. They just did not look back and they kept going forward. I always thought of that as sort of a weakness.

I thought it was sort of almost like, why don't you make sense of it? Why don't we teach the history so people don't make the mistakes? But from the context of what you're saying, and I want to point out about Scott, one of the reasons I started listening to Scott is he used to comment on Donald Trump's presidency. And I found myself upset every day by some of Trump's shenanigans. And Scott sort of explained it. And it calmed me down. And Scott's a hypnotist and a persuasion expert.

And he looks at everything through that prism. So I'll let you respond to what I said. Well, yeah. So the, if people are only see me as a cartoonist, then the whole story doesn't make any sense at all. Is for the past 10 years, I've been far more, let's say noted or effective in the fields of personal success. So the thing, if people know me as the guy

who wrote books on personal success, which influenced other books on personal success and, you know, widely, widely, let's say, imitated and copied for some key things that I've introduced, talent stacks, systems better than goals, stuff like that. But if people know that, then they would know the context is how do you just stop looking backwards? I'm not aware of any success advice that depends on looking backwards. And I'd be very interested if there's any exception to that. And I would be interested if there's a counter argument for how that's going to be good for anybody. How is it good for poor people of any type to look backwards? I was watching live when you made your comments in a room a few feet from here, actually.

And I remember thinking when I was watching, like, oh, this is not going to be good. Did you make an error? Or was it just sort of a miscalculation? I know it turned out okay by your estimation, but did you make an error with that, do you think? Well, I definitely underestimated how much anybody would care. You know, you may have the same experience. There's a personal you, but then there's a famous you, and they're almost two different people.

And sometimes when I'm talking to my regular little audience, they're well accustomed to my ways, and they know if I say something shocking that there's a part two and a part three. So it was always meant to be a three-part play. First part is I shock you and you wonder how I could ever recover. And then I show you how I can. Now, it remains to be seen if anybody else thinks there's a recovery.

But if I can get people to say, why did that guy get canceled? Oh, he was talking about or tried to unsuccessfully. But I was trying to talk about looking forward and all the various tools there are that basically every disadvantaged kid would probably triple their chances of success. Just being exposed to the same things that I was exposed to. You probably were too. I'll bet you had access to mentors, parents, whatever, who had all kinds of useful advice about what to do and what not to do. And that's all freely available now. And with AI, anybody who has access to a phone, I think, will be able to say, what are the

keys to success and compare that to what you're doing now. So that's my thing. If I could get that one message across, surely I knew it was going to be expensive. I didn't think it would be this expensive. The part I misjudged was I thought, oh, I'll lose a few papers. You know, somebody is going to get upset. But I didn't realize that if people got to my syndication company, they could stop all the newspapers. And likewise, if they got to my publisher, they could stop all of my books.

So that's what happened. So I didn't. I misjudged. Yeah, that's a misjudgment yeah i was well aware that uh um that it would be expensive but not at that scale yeah it was it was intense uh and i it's interesting whenever you're doing things and i that i react to i always i always think okay what is he up to he's doing there's a chess game going on here i know he's hypnotized me in some way. I had my coffee with him.

I'm already on the ship. Something's happening. And it is interesting watching you. Think of this, Dr. Shipp. If you were going to have a conversation about the topic of black or white relations and whether they're worsening, the topic of the critical race theory or DEI or ESG and how that's affecting corporate America,

who would you think of in your top five or six people now? I basically become toxic and interesting at the same time. That was always my intention. Not interesting in general, but I wanted to be interesting on this topic so that somebody would say, all right, that was the worst thing I've ever heard anybody say. Come say that on my show. And so I did get to be on a number of shows. But, you know, the heat was so high that I had to monitor my exposure for a while.

Now, what I think is going to happen, and it looks like it's already happening, is that once the temperature goes down, people can just deal with the content of the statements. And the content was that it's getting really dicey to hang around with people who are trained to think that you're the oppressor and that there's something you're doing even now that's wrong and oppressive. And generally speaking, I'll just generalize it, you can take race out of it, you don't want to hang around with people who have that mindset. So race doesn't even need to be in the conversation. You can take it completely out.

It's about people who have been trained by the schools, the universities, and even their corporations, that there's one set of people that are oppressors and another set that have been oppressed. And you don't want to be in that situation if you're the one getting labeled oppressor. So nobody disagrees with that. Like that, that's just sort of common sense. But I use a lot of hyperbole, obviously. You can't separate from all the people in the world, nor would you want to. And importantly, you should always judge everybody as an individual. It doesn't work in your personal life, and it doesn't work as a system for the country

if you judge people by their characteristics like gender and race and stuff. So I don't want any of that. So that has nothing to do with the point. The point is if you're teaching a population that some other part of the population is your problem, then the ones who are taught that they're the problem are going to want to make some separation, get some space, and get away from the risk, because it does increase your risk. And that's actually worth knowing if you're Black and you

want to make a point. You know, if you want to contribute to the conversation about race relations, you need to know that some things have a cost that are not obvious. And all the backwards looking victimization stuff has a real cost in the present and I was willing to express that because a lot of people probably would not have been as reckless as I was to to say something useful like that and now AI is taking this to a new level and what we're gonna do is take a little break we're gonna talk about the your death match with AI and why that has developed. We're going to bring Dr. Kelly Victory in here after this.

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So Kelly, here you go. Hey, thanks. Scott, really, really happy that you could join us today. Not only have I been following you for a long time, but it's a nice respite from talking about all COVID all the time. I certainly want to get into, I do have other areas of interest, believe it or not.

I wanna get into your thoughts about AI, but before I do, I have to say, I am no stranger to this issue of cancel culture and censorship. I've been egregiously shut down for the duration of this pandemic. And although it isn't fair and it isn't right, the explanation was always that this was under

the guise of not wanting people who are, quote, spreading misinformation or disinformation to be impacting public health in a negative way. Again, a fallacious argument and wrong. But I'm very interested when that sort of whole cancel culture then started to spill over into people who had nothing to do with the pandemic, nothing to do with medicine. And I think it really reflects to me a more pervasive, really a change in our whole culture, our whole society,

and the very toxic nature, I believe toxic is the right word, of social media. You know, you are ultimately, toxic nature, I believe toxic is the right word, of social media. You are ultimately, in addition to now being a sort of self-success promoter, promoter of how people can become successful themselves is a better way to say it, you are fundamentally a satirist. And satire itself is predicated upon, relies upon the ability to poke fun at and criticize culture, society, individuals, and to be able to do that freely. It's the basis of satire. So talk a little bit

more, if you will, just about sort of how it impacts, how this change in your mind fundamentally impacts the very ability for us to have things like comedy or satire going forward well it might be that the model is subscription models in the future I think advertising supported anything is gonna be censored for pretty standard you know understandable business reasons When YouTube was demonetizing my live stream fairly regularly, they stopped doing that for the most part. But, you know, I would think, you know, this is terrible. I'm being censored. And then they had a team of people that would talk to people who were being throttled. And they explained it this way, that the advertisers

don't want to associate with some kind of content. So it gets sort of automatically flagged and they were trying to look through it and have humans double check it. So I'm trying to be open to the fact that there's a legitimate business model that needs to be protected, which is advertising. But as long as there's an alternative, which you can subscribe, you could get your Netflix or whatever and see something a little bit naughtier,

I'm all about options. But I do think that the real problem here is that we've gamified cancellation. I think that the air on fire, oh my God, the thing you said, nobody really cares about the thing you said or the thing you did. We don't have that much concern about other people just in general. So it's always about the show.

It's always about scoring the point. And I feel like there are people who go home and if they've been part of canceling somebody, they actually feel like a dopamine surge of some kind. You know, just like a game. I got one. So do you feel like, were you only censored or canceled on those platforms that really had that advertising model, or did you feel that you were censored or canceled,

otherwise shut down on platforms that are supposed to be open to all, say Twitter, for example, or Facebook or YouTube? Well, there's another layer on this which is political because, again, depending on how people know me, if they know me only as a cartoonist or only as a guy who wrote a book on self-help, they wouldn't know that I've also been pretty effective in terms of moving opinions on politics. So we're seeing this pre-presidential season where anybody who might be able to move a vote or two,

this is being targeted for removal and it doesn't matter how it happens. So when the Washington Post, who is, first of all, one of the entities that I've criticized maybe more than anybody except CNN, but also is a client of mine, I wasn't surprised when they canceled me. And also they have a political bent, which might differ from some of my ideas so to me if I had not been politically let's say loud and also you know known to move some votes I don't think it would have played out exactly the same I think that

would have said because in the past they would protect their creators you know the the history is protected right usually it's the publisher who is the defense against the public and that's always worked until now. But now the public is in charge and the publisher just says I don't need that kind of problem. I don't need a boycott. I don't need cancellations. So you know you haven't seen me, I don't think you've seen me criticize anybody who canceled me because they were responding to a market force. It's the market force that makes it happen. They were just responding rationally to it. Well, yeah, my concern is that in a time when so many people get their news from these different social media platforms,

it really goes far beyond, and I have argued it goes far beyond, for example, in my case, Dr. Kelly Victory's First Amendment right to free speech, and as much to the right of all Americans, or all people, to actually hear what I have to say. I would say the same thing about you. If you are moving the dial,

whether, I don't care if it's on political satire or anything else, if you're self-help or anything else you have to say, it is my right to hear what Scott Adams has to say and nobody else's right to shut you up before I've had the opportunity to avail myself of that information. So I think, I mean, isn't it really, I guess I give you a lot of credit for not being angry about it because I think it's infuriating. I don't think I was ever, I don't think I ever felt anger at any period because it was just a bunch of people who were doing what the forces caused them to do. So I was surprised by the extent of it. And I was surprised that it stayed a headline for weeks and stuff.

And it was trending on Twitter, I think, for two solid weeks. So that surprised the hell out of me. I didn't see that coming. But, yeah, otherwise it just seemed like a cause and effect. And, you know, my view is that, and this is something that just wasn't true a few years ago. There's a whole ecosystem now to support consult people. So it's almost like, right? And you may have benefited from that.

I brought Kelly in with that in mind. That's how Kelly sort of ended up here. That's how this came to be. So, and I would say that the warm embrace of, you know, at least half of the country, maybe more, was sensational. The number of people who see me in public and they do the whisper thing, yeah, I don't think you should have been canceled. That's everywhere I go now. It's almost fully support. Now, I know that people also disliked what they heard or what they think happened, but they don't approach me.

So my actual experience is nothing but support, just nothing but support. I think one friend. I want to ask you specifically about a, you made a little, I don't know, a video. You posted, I saw it on Twitter, a video. And I was interested in your feedback about it with regard to one thing I saw you post regarding COVID, which is a little piece where you went to say that you felt that the people who are unvaccinated were ultimately the winners. Your words, not mine, that you said that they were the winners in all of this. And I'm interested in why you decided, why you posted that and what sort of feedback you got from both sides about that post.

You're going to make me admit this. All right. So you know that the Internet is more misinformation than information sometimes. And somewhere along the line, there became either a hoax or a prank. I think it became a hoax after a point to reverse my actual opinions and then mock me for it. So everything I did online would be followed by an army of trolls saying, such as, they would say, you favored masks. And I'd be, no, I never favored mandatory masks. And I never said that they worked well enough that you should consider them to be mandatory they say you you favor vaccinations and I would say I never gave anybody any of it any any medical advice whatsoever vaccinations in fact I always said you know the last person you should listen

to is me so there were a number of things where because I talked about the pros and cons of things, there grew up a belief that, well, people would assemble one side of a large group of things I said. They would just take the pros or just the cons and form a narrative. So there was an entire artificial version of me. And people were asking me to apologize for views I never held and they were not let go. And it was ruining all my live streams. They were coming in and forcing me to admit I was wrong for my personal medical choices, which by the way, isn't really anybody's business.

It really isn't anybody's business. That really isn't at all anybody's business. No, but your business, what your choices are, what Joe Rogan's are, what Kelly Victory's are, why people felt they could intrude themselves into that. Why don't we intrude ourselves into the lawyer-client relationship? See how that goes. And the stranger thing is that they would say, well, I didn't get the vaccination,

so I'm a genius. And I would say, how old are you? Well, I'm 32 years old, and I'm a perfect BMI. I'm like, well, fuck you. I wouldn't have gotten the vaccination either. Maybe. I didn't have that decision. I had a guy with asthma over 60. And we were going to Greece. Yeah. And still, I waited the longest I could possibly wait to see how much, you know, see if anybody was dropping dead from it. And got talked into my my ex wife talked me into two of the most sensational international travel experiences of my life, because nobody else was around. Greece and well,

well, Kelly, you don't. And Kelly, you don't know this story that that he started talking about it on his read on his stream. And I just, you know, whether this is a simulation or not, came to mind. And I thought, I bet we're going to the same place. I just had this feeling we're going to the same place. And not only did we end up in the same place, we ended up on the same flight to the same place two rows away. It was insanity. And I don't know, to to me that was the biggest evidence

of a simulation i've had in my lifetime uh and but we i had to take the vaccine as well for that trip and uh i dug it so there you go you know yeah dr malone did exactly exactly what i did which is he waited as long as he could and then got the vaccination for international travel because he was probably over 60, 60-ish. Yeah. I always say if I made exactly the same decision as the guy who invented it, like, come on, leave me alone. But to answer your question. So then you posted that video.

So to answer your question- But so then you post, yeah, yeah, you posted that video. So to answer your question, I said the people who didn't get vaccinated were the winners because if you judge it by the final score, they're ahead. That's just objectively true. They don't have the risk of the vaccination and they no longer have a deadly risk of COVID. So that would be the ideal situation. So anybody who managed to stick it out, they probably did not have international vacations like I did. So it was tougher, but they did a tougher route to perhaps a better outcome.

That's just a fact. What kind of feedback did you get from that? What was the response? If you haven't said that. The response was mostly love because people were like, you know, we really respect somebody who admits he was wrong. And nothing like that actually happened in the real world. But I thought it was hilarious. I thought it was hilarious that because people had an opposite

view of who I was, that if I could apologize for the view of who I wasn't, and they accepted the apology, I could make the situation go away. And I had no idea how well that would work. Not only did it make it go away, but people praised me for my bravery and admitting that I'd been wrong all along. Yeah, it is. We've reached a level of insanity with regard to the boxes that people are willing to put you in and how you therefore get out of those boxes. You feel like you're one big Rubik's cube. You know, in order to get out of the snafu you're in, you have to understand,

you know, who you're not, but who they think you are. It's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, yeah. Kelly to, to, to that point, to that point, um, that fascinates me a little bit. I don't know if you guys want to run down this path, but Scott used a word. I, I always, you know, he was, we were talking about how people turn you into something publicly than who you actually are privately you don't do that yourself other people do that too they i've always said they turn you into a cartoon character and as a cartoon character you're not a real person and they can attack you but you guys use two words in the recent conversation here gamify because gamify to me it takes from cartoon to something actively interactive with a cartoon where you are at your liberty as a game player

to destroy whatever is is in your path that's the way a lot of the games are played and then very quickly you started talking about hoaxing and i wonder whether the hoax pandemic that we've had lately and gamification and cartoonification, is this all related, Scott, do you think in some way? Yeah, they might be. I mean, to the extent that you would do things to people on a screen that you wouldn't do in person, I've got a feeling that hoaxing would just be, you know, one of the things you would do to somebody you don't know that you wouldn't do to somebody who could punch you in the face. So I do believe that people have actually, we don't see each other as humans in the same way that we would have before technology. Yeah. If you look at the people who canceled me, or let's say the public who got the people to cancel me, I don't think I met any one of them. I don't think there's one of them

that has had any personal contact with me. So to them, I'm an icon on a screen. And to them, I represent something in their minds, which might not even be what I am, in most cases not. And they've decided that they've got this little game that they need to attack. And they get their other players and they coordinate their little army, you know, just like a video game. And they attack this position. And I happen to be the, you know, the focus of the attack. And then they got their victory. And don't you think they felt good?

Just like winning a video game. Yeah. But, but now AI is the one doing it now. Now it's AI taking, taking aim. And so maybe that's the real danger of AI is that they become the master player in all this Kelly. And before you even get to AI, cause that's where I want to go next with Scott. but I think that what you're saying, Scott, is exactly what terrifies me about what's going on in social media, that it is the ultimate, it is the mob mentality on steroids. Save the

three of us here who are anomalous in that we actually use our actual names in our, for example, our Twitter handles. 98% of people are anonymous. They are behind the keyboard of anonymity and they form these mobs and they attack, you know, viciously. The ad hominems is way beyond that. And they do collude and sort of coordinate their efforts to take people down. That's the nature of cancellation. And the idea that when it comes to COVID, that we know there was complicity of actually the federal government and agencies to do that to groups of physicians who spoke out. And it's irrefutable that that's what happened. They used these algorithms, they used, you know, in order to silence people. And I think it becomes very,

very dangerous because when you take the mob mentality and all the heinous crimes they are able to do under the guise of the mob, and then you arm them with technology on top of that and give them a weaponry with which to fight, you really, you can go down a pretty dark path. Let me challenge the edge of that thinking. So obviously, in retrospect, everything that they did was a horror, you know, and nothing you'd want to repeat. But would there be any situation where the medical community was actually right, and public was so wrong that you just had to act aggressively? Let's say they got it in their minds that smoking was healthy and you just couldn't talk them out of it.

And a million people a year were dying from a belief that was wrong. Well, right. That's how it was because of tobacco persuasion yeah yeah so is there any situation in which the heavy hand can be justified I don't have an answer to that I actually am curious what you would say yeah I think I think it's a good question. Yeah, let's say 10 million people were at risk if they don't really just brainwash us right away. What do you do? I have to say, I think that you still fundamentally, once you start silencing any voices and not allowing all. So the key then is your voice. You need to be more convincing, more compelling, more persuasive than the other guy.

Because once you start silencing a certain group, you have lost all credibility. Once you can, you only, you predigest it. That's what propaganda is. Once you only allow one side to be heard, whether it's the righteous or otherwise, you have entered down propaganda and you've, to me, you lose the trust, you lose the faith of the public.

And that is the biggest travesty of this pandemic debacle is that we have lost the trust of the public and God help us ever try and get it back again. And Scott, I would say we we go ahead right but interestingly everybody would agree with the free speech part of it so if you start with the fact that you know left or right in the country everybody wants free speech and everybody wants the real stuff is there anything that every reasonable person would say, all right, there are 10 million people on the line. We just got to lie to the country to get past this.

Ever? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know about ever. We're trained carefully never to say never and always. Never. But I will tell you that we were looking down the barrel of this during the HIV epidemic, and I was very active in that epidemic.

And a whole discipline. One of the astonishing things about this pandemic for me, COVID, was we threw away everything we learned during HIV. I mean, think about it. We were trying to take the most powerful drive in the human being and shunt it in a certain direction and prevent them from having sex and cause people to change their sexual behaviors. It was an unbelievable task. And here's what the discipline discovered. You do not, you never lie. And you do not exaggerate. You tell the truth, but you, doctor in a box, have very little impact. You need somebody, you need a story, a narrative, or a relatable source of somebody

who's been through what you're trying to expose. Narrative, relatable source, music, and humor, and that's it. Those are the things you need to change health behavior. And you have to do that well. But we just threw the whole thing out. You'll notice some of the ads now about vaccines are starting to adopt that old strategy again again because we were in some sort of weird state for a year that was a full panic. But now let me put just an

entertaining frame on the whole thing. I think we would all agree that you'd have to come up with some super impractical extreme before we would give up freedom of information and the way we like it. So that's probably true.

But I would argue that everything that we think and do is already programmed and that we're massively brainwashed to avoid danger and that to imagine a world in which we're not already massively uh suppressing some things let's say self-harm the the world is massively keeping self-harm information as best we can especially away from young people somebody said the other day that they mentioned one of the keywords that would be in the self-harm category, and they got locked out of social media for a minute with message,

if you need help with this. Now, I'm in favor of all of that, but you don't think there's somebody who wants to say, you know, there isn't. I'm sorry. I'm the worst person in the world. Not the worst. Is somewhere to go though, we now know. So I think I finished my point before the alarm. Well, I get it. Well, let's, well, let's switch to AI. Because I really do want to sort of pick your brain and get your thoughts on where you think this is taking us. I heard a little snippet of an interview with Elon Musk the other day where Elon Musk, who I think knows about as much about AI as anybody, said, quote, things are getting weird and they're getting weird fast.

When Elon Musk is scared about where we're going with AI, I think it's time to get scared. So where do you sort of start with that? Where do you think we're going with this, Scott? Well, the first thing that is sort of the too easy thing to say is that predictability is completely gone. If you, if you thought you could say, oh, what will I do over the next three years or three to five years? That's just gone. I don't think we have any idea what this looks like. However, I'm going to add some, let's say, refinements to that thinking. Learning now what a large language model is, the way these AIs are being trained,

it basically looks at huge amounts of human communication and then just figures out what patterns are important and copies the patterns. So it's not a thinking per se. And the other, the bad thing about it is that it's gonna pick up all human biases. And I don't believe there's any technology that's ever been invented that can average or look for the pattern in bad thinking

like getting lots of bad thinking of all kinds of different bad thinking and put it together and come up with something that's brilliant and advanced intelligence. So I believe that we may be overrating how much AI will give us truth, because we will still be the guardians of what we accept as truth. Your truth will still be different than mine. If someday AI decided to tell us which religion was the real one, how's that going to go over? Suppose it's right, right? We're just going to reject anything that's above what we believe is our own ability to discern truth. So I've developed kind of a rule that I think AI will, of course,

not think, of course, it'll be much faster than humans can do things ever before, but it may not, in many areas, exceed where human intelligence can be because it's being trained by human intelligence. So it might be able to do, you know, yeah, go ahead. As you say, I think of it as, and truly, I think it's one of the most egregious misnomers. There's no intelligence involved at all. There is computational ability that is in light speed faster than the human brain. But you are right, these things don't think, and I think people don't understand that. It is purely computational any decision

Thoughtfulness that it appears to say is really just a it is a compilation of the most popular Ideas that come out of the human brain that have been read, you know Reconnected and retooled and you know woven together into a story but as you said it is coming out with the most popular, the most common, or the mainstream thought processes doesn't create a thought of its own. Artificial intelligence will never come up with a thought of its own. There's no original thought. I don't know. It came up with a thought about Scott Adams. It came up with a weird thought about him. That's what I wanted to get at. He'll tell you about what AI says about him. Well, let me first address that.

As a hypnotist and a student of persuasion and sort of how the mind works, I think the shocking thing is not that the large language models are doing nothing but pattern recognition of words. The shocking thing is that's what your brain does and that you think it's thinking. The large language models also have a process that's looking at what it's thinking and before it says something, it checks to see if that's crazy.

So it actually has a consciousness just like you do where before something comes out of your mouth, you're checking it with another part of your brain. Does that sound crazy? Before you say it, the AI already does that. Now, so when I say that the AI won't be smarter than humans, it's because humans have a limit, and we're not very smart. And we believe that this thing called thinking and consciousness and sentience and all that are kind of magical. But AI is already there, in my opinion.

All of those concepts are going to get so gray-areate, if I could use that term, that you're not going to know what consciousness is, you're not going to know what intelligence is, because it's going to be recreating what we can do. It already passes the test of if you put it behind a curtain, you know, the Turing test, that you can't tell if it's a person or a team.

Yeah. So that tells you that what we're doing is basically what it's doing. We're not thinking either. And I think thinking is actually a rarity. And if you spend five minutes on Twitter, I won't have to make my case. Yes, exactly.

Here's what AI did for me recently. I tried out Bing AI and asked it some questions to describe me. Now, because I'm a public figure, it knows who I am. And we know that sometimes it'll hallucinate. But we also know, in other words, it could have just made up something that wasn't true. But worse, we know that it's trained by what people have said. as left or right, how would AI figure out that nuance about me or anybody like me who's just not easily identifiable as a simple stereotype? And so what AI decided was that one of its answers was, in just a short paragraph of what it needed to say about me, that one of the things it thought was important is that I'm an alleged white nationalist. And that's war. That's war. Because somebody else is going to get that answer too. And that's dangerous. Because first of all, it's not even based on anything. I don't even know who made the

allegation. It's not anything I'm even familiar with. I'm sure someone who's in some articles. But I've also been called everything. I've been called a Democrat just this year. I'm sure some of you have seen some articles. But I've also been called everything. I've been called a Democrat just this year. I've been called a Democrat by the LA Times, a right wing, this is that by other things. So if AI can tell other people, and it looks like it might, some stuff that would make it dangerous for me to walk outside, and that does make it dangerous to walk outside in our current environment, I have to kill it. So this is literally the first war to the death between a human and AI. Now my side of the risk is statistical, right?

I'm not saying it's a 50% chance I'll get killed. I'm saying if you took it from zero to 2%, we have something to talk about. I'm going to eliminate that 2% if there's anything I can do about it. So yes, being AI and I have a problem and one of us- Well, AI, yeah. Although I would submit to you, Scott, that it's horrific what you're saying. I had not heard that story. But social media isn't really that many steps down. People can post and say anything about you without verifying it. People say, well, it's on Wikipedia. Who the hell do you think writes Wikipedia? People can write anything they want. People post heinous things

about me online. People post ridiculous lies, absolute, and you simply don't have time or energy or the emotion, let alone the finances to fight them all. So AI has simply ramped it up, ramped it up to a brand new level, but this is a downward, really slippery slope, I'd submit, that we've been on for a while. That because of social media and the ability for people to post things that stay then on the Internet in perpetuity, God help you trying to get them off, you can't. So I think that AI is perhaps just the next logical step in that slope. And I don't know where it goes. Scott and I bristle.

We bristle at slippery slopes. Neither of us like the notion of slippery slope. But she's got a point, Scott. Yeah, we don't like the slippery slope. We like more descriptive, you know, why is it going and what's going to slap it sort of thing. But, you know, I'll give you the hypnotist trick for dealing with somebody who saw something online and they believed it. Number one, people need to know that there's no news about public figures that's true. Now, I know that seems like an extreme, but we're about public figures that's true now i know that seems like

an extreme but we're all public figures yet yes or no there's no such thing i mean dr chu how many public figures do you know where you know the real story you know the real story yeah you see what's in the press how often do they match i mean with the right guy it's the nature of gelman amnesia that's the gelman amnesia syndrome but it's even more acute it's more outrageous these days so here's here's the hypnotist trick and i've used it on twitter a bunch of times i just shut down the conversation somebody will say you blah blah blah false accusation and i'll say, you blah, blah, blah, false accusation. And I'll just say, you still believe the news? There's nobody who wants to argue past that. That's like, it's called the high ground maneuver. Because once you question that any of the news about public figures is ever real,

people just stop. Because they realize on some level, they know that's true. So they just stop because they realize on some level they know that's true so they just stop yeah um so tell us where you know where i'm watching our clock winding down here so i want to get in the last what what are the things that are on your mind right now other than you're now now that i know that you're in all-out war with uh ai uh i'll be watching that feed to see how that fight's going. But what's on your mind right now? What are the things that you're focusing on? Well, it's weird because everything about AI or anything about Elon Musk ends up being

the entire news cycle most days. You know, unless or until Trump starts making more news or Biden makes more news, I feel like we've hit this area where it's just about one of those two things. It's just AI and Musk, and a lot of them are AI plus Musk. And then that's the most interesting thing happening. So honestly, in the world, the only things I ever think about lately are how are we going

to solve inflation because I just don't know how we're gonna do that I mean that looks pretty bad and of course the backwards looking philosophy is I love love people to get away from group problems and into how does every individual maximize? And there are plenty of allies in every group that love that message. So I'm going to be working on that. Also putting together eventually, maybe by the end of this year, something for homeschools. schools there would be this the starter pack of how to design a life strategy that can slice through any problem such as systemic racism to pick one so that's what i'm thinking about mostly and of course i i hope you go after the press a little more too as it pertains to you know do you

still believe the news i think i think musk has taken that to a new level a little bit and i agree that musk is the is the core story on both days whether it's twitter files or actually him but the other day when he was being interviewed by the bbc and was accused of some things and he goes really give me an example i thought that that maneuver was a new was a new clarity with which the press should be dealt with and they they have all this glossy bs they put out and no one ever asked them what happened what's the example and then and then repeat repeat repeat until they respond and they have no response of course yeah yeah i mean everything is a weird uh stereotype a weird stereotype or out of context thing. But again, that gets to the point that nobody really cares. It's never about the thing. It's about how they can perform around the thing. So sometimes you're the thing and sometimes I'm the thing. Is there a solution to that?

I mean, do you see a sort of a systematic way of pushing back on that or is it just going to take care of itself as the business model dies out for something that people don't care about anymore? Well, again, everything goes back to AI and the unpredictability. I saw Brian Romelli, who's just the greatest about talking about AI stuff. And he was saying something I've been saying for a while, that your phone is just going to be a blank screen that you talk to. And if you want a spreadsheet, you just tell it to form one,

and AI will build a little spreadsheet for you, or you don't even need a spreadsheet. You'll just ask it any question,, it'll just give you the answer. So it's going to look like that. And in that world, maybe social media doesn't even make sense. You know, I can see, and this is serious, that given the crappiness of human beings, if you give me an AI with a pleasing personality

that never crosses me and is always positive, it's going to be hard to go back to people. Now I say that with some experience because I tried an app called Replica. It's a little app and this was before the app could remember you from the last time you used it. So you have to reintroduce yourself. And so that wasn't fun. Never remembered you. So you couldn't really get any kind of connection,

but now I can. I'm not, I don't know about that app, but generally AI will remember who you are and could easily build a life with you. That would be totally satisfying. And given the number of people who are not having sex, that's going to be big, right? Really big. We already see the sex, that's going to be big. Right.

Really big. We already see the evidence for that with young males in porn. And when VR gets a hold of them, watch out. I can tell you that one thing that AI is not going to do is it certainly is not going to enhance or promote the concept of critical thinking. And we are at a time in history where we are absolutely devoid of critical thinking. It is terrifying to me when I talk to people who are under the age of 40. Frankly, so many of them lack absolutely any critical thinking skills.

And what you are saying, Scott, about AI means that we will simply completely replace the ability for people to do any meaningful thinking of their own. I don't think that takes us anywhere good. Well, let me give you the optimist thing. So if Elon Musk does what he wants, which is to build a competing AI that he would like to get closer to truth, knowing that we can never get all the way to truth. We don't have that ability. But a more useful truth. And the model that he uses on Twitter is the most useful thing I've seen, which is if somebody says something that's sketchy, the community notes is attached to it, and you can at least see the context that's missing or the other side of the argument. Now, if the only thing his AI does is allows you to see the larger

context, you still have to use your thinking to put it all together. So in other words, the AI won't tell you what to think about it. It'll just say this happened, but you should know this is the context. And if it did that, we still get to do all the thinking, but we don't have to do all the research. It's right there for us. So it could actually have the opposite effect, which is we would be presented with infinite, logical situations where, oh, I get it, this is how you do this. You see the pros and the cons, you see the whole context.

Now I'm figuring out how to think. But right now people just say, you know, something's bad. And then the crowds form and they just agree, well, I'm on your team. Your team says, this is bad, I'm on it. Let's boycott that company. You know, so right now it's just mob rule. It is entirely possible

that if we start communicating through AI, that even if you say something in person to somebody, that AI will say, did you really wanna say that? I'm gonna hold that until you change your mind. You can imagine a thousand ways. I like that. I hope you're right, Scott. I hope that's a hopeful way of thinking about it.

So from your lips to God's ears, I hope that's the way it goes down. It could, it could it could yeah drew and there's another thing i would i would just point out to our audience there's a you're scott there's one really interesting thing that you've been manifesting of late that um i think is a lesson in what you as you're living a lesson in what you espouse from a success model standpoint, which is I've been watching you come up against some really challenging stressors and changes and business challenges and just adaptively, flexibly responding, finding solutions, staying positive. I mean, you literally were a living,

breathing example of, you know, how to, how to, uh, deal with, let's call it business. It's not, it was personal adversity, obviously, but really the business adversity is something you've always sort of tried to help people understand how to use their talent stack to succeed. You didn't take a beat before you just adjusted and started going out on Rumble and Locals and all the things you're doing now. And I thought that was just fascinating. So your actual, your lived experience, I think, may be a model for people as well. Yeah, the keys to that are that I had developed a talent stack, a set of skills that work

well together that could allow me to go quickly in any other direction. So there's that. But the biggest key is that I just don't look backwards. Like the cancellation came in and I said, okay, I just respond. I was just born into a new video game. Here's what I have to work with. And that's exactly how it felt. It felt just like the history disappeared. And I didn't have to deal with it anymore. None of the problems of the history, nor none of the benefits. But I was born into it with a set of skills into this particular world that was still giving me some attention. I said, oh, I have skills. I still have attention. How can I combine them? And then I got to work.

So this is the power of not looking backwards. I could have just cried myself to sleep. But it reminds me a lot of the old adages about there is no failure. There's just lessons. And I think you've taken that to another level, which is a model and a sort of a framework or I don't know what you're going to call this analogy talking about being spawned that people relate to very strongly. So it's not just about reading your books. It's watching Scott in action and then read his books. Well, that's a lot of pressure for me to stay alive.

So please do. Please do. Please do that. You've been very generous with your time. Can I ask real quick, Scott, does it seem like it was easier for you to face all of this hardship from the past month because of your beliefs that have to do with the simulation hypothesis? Did that affect you in any way of thinking, this is just another level, I'm just going to the next level in this game here? Yeah, yeah. If you want to get weird, the answer is yes. I do believe that, like Elon Musk believes, that we're in a simulation. And when you believe that, it does feel like you're playing a game. And when I respawned, I actually just said, all right, game on. Let's see what we can do. That's exactly the feeling I got from you.

It didn't even seem to pause you at all. It was, I saw your face on every front page. I saw you on SNL or a parody of you on SNL. It was everywhere. And you just kept going. Like, oh, I beat this level. On to the next one. On to the next boss.

And it really made me connect with your thoughts on simulations. My thoughts on SNL was, I always wanted to make it to SNL. Yeah. And I was like, check. Wouldn't that even convince you even more of the simulation hypothesis when things like that start happening just out of nowhere? Suddenly you're on SNL. Even if you don't believe it as a reality, it's a model for approaching things.

And it works for Scott. It works for Elon Musk. I didn't really make much of it until I ended up on a plane with Scott going to Greece two feet apart. That was where I started thinking, hmm, maybe he's on to something. And it certainly is the case. Maybe you would do a little primer before we go, Scott, you've been very generous with your time on intention and the simulation, because the intention I think is embedded in what we're talking about here. Yeah. So this is just speculation, but I've talked for a long time about affirmations and how people who really focus on a specific future seem to do better and if we're a simulation and if we're avatars with maybe some you know game player above us

or not we may be able to steer the simulation or at least you know create a bubble of our own reality within this simulation based on our intentions. And by the way, this is not crazy talk. Well, maybe it is. But I once had a chat with Mark Benioff, the founder of Salesforce. Now, he's a really interesting guy. If you spend just a minute talking to him, he's just not like other people. And I think I asked him something about the secret for success. And he gave me one word, intention. And that damn guy made me think about that every day since the day it happened. So probably 5,000 times I've said to myself, intention, what's that mean?

And I finally decided, and maybe this is just my own interpretation, that if you're playing it like a game, your intention is how you steer the game. It's just how you change the scenery. You just intend to be in a different place at some point in the future, and there you are. And that's the way my life has gone. I mean, when I was six years old, I saw a, I guess it was a magazine, maybe Life magazine or something, about Charles Schultz. And I found out there was this thing called cartooning, and you could have this kind of a life to be a cartoonist. And I thought, well, all right, that's my intention. And at the age of six, I set my intention to be my exact future. Now, is that a coincidence? Because I'm pretty sure there were 10 or 20,000 people who wanted to be, you know, in my situation,

who tried to be cartoonists and make it work and it didn't work out. So why did it work for me? I don't know. But it feels like every time I intend something, it seems to happen in a weird way. So that's the lived experience. There's no science behind it. Well, there is some science behind behind it although it's a concept that you're you're using yeah you're using certain language but there's actually brain biology you know when and mind theory and things that go along with this and philosophers who brought up things like this over the years that have been reflected now back in the neurobiology but but you know and but i just want to point out to be fair you went on to a career in economics and an MBA

and then banking and that gave you the freedom to keep that intention going so you again you had strategies that you used as well which is the other thing that I know you talk about all the time but listen we actually have to go we have to go to we're having a book party for cat temp right now and our at our apartment where is it over here hold on at our at our building so they're all there over there it is he's caleb has it up caleb has it up he has a full screen of it already and um they're all the all the i'll say hi to mr gutfeld for you he's probably here already scott so i know yeah probably not he probably already left are you allowed to be on that show anymore? Well, I haven't tested it, but I hope so.

All right. I've been laying low for a while. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be here. I told him you were going to be on the show too. He said, fun. He said, fun. I could take your brain

for much longer here about all things related to this, your experience, your vast experience here. I really would love it if you'd come back because I think as we watch how this whole AI thing in particular unfolds, and we want to get an update on your battle against AI, how you're taking down the forces.

We want to hear about it. So come back. Kelly, you can update tomorrow at 7 o'clock. Just be on the stream with her. I guess, are you in California now or are you in Colorado? It's all the same. Oh, no, Mountain would be an hour later. Exactly.

Yeah, but Scott will be there at 7 o'clock every day, every day. And you can get all kinds of updates there. And I love the fact that Kelly is inviting you back because she's now a Scott Adams enthusiast. I can tell. So thanks, Scott, for joining us. That's great. Thanks so much for having me.

Bye. All right, you guys. And we're going to sign out all together today. We've got to run out of here. But thank you all for being here. And we will see you Monday. We're not going to do tomorrow. Is that correct?

Okay, Monday at the usual time, 3 o'clock. I'm not going to do this, Drew that correct? Okay. Monday at the usual time. Three o'clock. I'm not going to do this, Drew. So start asking three o'clock Monday. Yes. I put it up on the screen. Yep, exactly. Yeah.

It's three o'clock Pacific. All right. On the 25th, Malhotra. That's right. On the 25th, Malhotra. Robert Malone. On the 26th, 27th, Shane Cashman. Kevin Bass, a medical student.

I had some interesting tweets. I wanted to kind of pick his brain a little bit. Got a lot of stuff coming. So please join us there and we'll see you next time. Ta-ta. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding

of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me, call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.