Ask Dr. Drew - Severe COVID-19 Vaccine Reaction: Kyle Warner (Pro Mountain Bike Racer) – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 73

Episode Date: February 21, 2022

[12/10/21] Kyle Warner is 29 years old and was at the peak of his career as a professional mountain bike racer when, in June, he got his second dose of Pfizer’s COVID-19 shot. He suffered a reaction so severe that, as of October, he was still spending days in bed, easily overwhelmed by too much mental or physical exertion. Follow him at https://instagram.com/kylewarnermtb/  [This episode originally aired on December 10, 2021] Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation ( https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/FirstLadyOfLove). SPONSORS • REFRAME – Since the beginning of the pandemic, nearly 1 in 5 Americans has reported consuming an unhealthy amount of alcohol, but only 10% of them are actually getting the help they need. Reframe is a neuroscience-based smartphone app that helps users cut back or quit drinking alcohol. Use the code DRDREW for 25% off your first month or annual subscription at https://drdrew.com/reframe • BLUE MICS – After more than 30 years in broadcasting, Dr. Drew’s iconic voice has reached pristine clarity through Blue Microphones. But you don’t need a fancy studio to sound great with Blue’s lineup: ranging from high-quality USB mics like the Yeti, to studio-grade XLR mics like Dr. Drew’s Blueberry. Find your best sound at https://drdrew.com/blue  • HYDRALYTE – “In my opinion, the best oral rehydration product on the market.” Dr. Drew recommends Hydralyte’s easy-to-use packets of fast-absorbing electrolytes. Learn more about Hydralyte and use DRDREW25 at checkout for a special discount at https://drdrew.com/hydralyte  • ELGATO – Every week, Dr. Drew broadcasts live shows from his home studio under soft, clean lighting from Elgato’s Key Lights. From the control room, the producers manage Dr. Drew’s streams with a Stream Deck XL, and ingest HD video with a Camlink 4K. Add a professional touch to your streams or Zoom calls with Elgato. See how Elgato’s lights transformed Dr. Drew’s set: https://drdrew.com/sponsors/elgato/  THE SHOW: For over 30 years, Dr. Drew Pinsky has taken calls from all corners of the globe, answering thousands of questions from teens and young adults. To millions, he is a beacon of truth, integrity, fairness, and common sense. Now, after decades of hosting Loveline and multiple hit TV shows – including Celebrity Rehab, Teen Mom OG, Lifechangers, and more – Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio in California. On Ask Dr. Drew, no question is too extreme or embarrassing because the Dr. has heard it all. Don’t hold in your deepest, darkest questions any longer. Ask Dr. Drew and get real answers today. This show is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. All information exchanged during participation in this program, including interactions with DrDrew.com and any affiliated websites, are intended for educational and/or entertainment purposes only. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Here we are for our special episode. Thank you for joining us today. I inadvertently scheduled the clubhouse for 3 o'clock Pacific. My mistake. We were on at 1 o'clock today. 3 o'clock in Alabama, where Caleb is. Susan, everything good with you?

Excellent. You've been running around all day. And as you said, you have nothing but time the rest of the day, which is, I've never heard those words. To work for you. I've never heard those words come out of your mouth. So that's very good. Well, I have more time after this than i did before excellent excellent uh we are out on clubhouse as we uh i'm watching you guys uh out there and again you raise your hand we bring you up here and you will be

streaming on multiple platforms including twitch twitter facebook uh i'm heading over to youtube now um if today's conversation if we get somehow kicked off YouTube, please do look for us at Rumble. I don't think they should be. Or Twitch or Facebook for the next week if we get canceled. We'll let you know. Just look at our socials. Yeah, I don't think we will. I can't imagine we will.

Yeah, we've somehow been under the radar for a while. I'm very excited. No, because I think we've learned that, first of all, they've sort of softened a bit on the medical conversation. And we sort of understand where the difficult zone is for them. And we've sort of stayed away from it. And today should not be difficult. opinion for quite some time that one of the sources of vaccine hesitancy is the way they obscure the vaccine data and the way they sort of treat the public like they can't handle the information. And I think that is anathema. That is how you create vaccine hesitancy. There's

no doubt in my mind about that, that people need all the information possible. So as we would normally do so they can make an informed consent. When I get involved with somebody and I'm asking them to take a treatment that has some potential deleterious consequences, but I want them to take it because from my perspective, the risk reward requires it. In other words, they're going to get more benefit than risk. I need the patient to understand the decision they're making with me. Why we've decided that's not how we're making this decision any longer as it pertains to vaccine and COVID therapeutics and whatnot, that it just violates all of my ethical sensibilities.

So that being said, we've always been open about talking about the risk reward as it pertains to vaccine. I am strongly in favor of vaccine therapies. Before the camera teetered up today, I was talking about trying to make a decision for myself on what kind of vaccine I should get, follow-up and booster or not, as somebody who has native immunity and has taken Johnson & Johnson and had a terrible reaction to Johnson & Johnson. And I'm following, I'm in kind of a weird situation because I've been working with that Adatex score group, the Adatex group

I've been talking about, who I used to be in business with. I'm no longer involved with them formally, but I do believe in their product. And I've been part of a research protocol there where they've been looking at my antibody screening, my neutralizing antibodies. They essentially are looking at my RBD, my spike protein, my nuclear capsid protein, and my neutralizing antibodies. And there's sort of a good B-cell assessment there. And I have been one of these people that have very high antibodies after having had COVID. Maybe that's part of having severe COVID. I don't

know. But then your colleague wants you to get a vaccine. Then I got the J&J because I wanted to move about the globe and I couldn't do it with just my natural immunity. I had to show a vaccine. I'm glad I did that. I'm showing a vaccine every time I go into a restaurant. Of course, the vaccine has contributed very little to my immunity. The reality is my innate immunity from the infection is far better. But the Adetok score that I was following did show that my immunity popped up a little bit after the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. What's very interesting is that my immunity popped up a little bit after the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. What's very interesting is that my last additive score went up again, which suggests to me I might have been re-exposed to the virus, which I welcome. I welcome that because my native immunity is so good,

it just sort of causes a little army to develop. This is how our immune system works and sort of pushes out the virus now i have more immunity it's like a vaccination of sorts i'm actually wondering if omicron should be something that i you know something that i might benefit me versus a vaccine that's sort of what i'm mulling around one of my physician colleagues i i was sort of asking for her opinion and she was, you got to get the vaccine. Just get the vaccine. And she was advocating for the mRNA vaccine because there's some data that shows that J&J to mRNA crossover is an excellent factor and one of the best forms of immunity. Which one's that?

That's actually probably the best thing would be Moderna. J&J followed by Moderna would probably be the best combo. But that's in people the probably the best thing would be moderna jj follow my moderna would probably be the best combo but that's in people who didn't have covid yeah there's no data on people with hybrid immunity like make me so it's a different decision and let's remind ourselves i had a bad reaction i think i remember a doctor telling you to get pfizer that was when we thought pfizer was the best one yeah but no it was like a month ago or something. Well, Pfizer or Moderna would be equivalent. Just Moderna seems to have a little more sustained immunity than Pfizer. That's why I was saying Moderna would probably be a little better.

But yeah, they're both fine. They're both good. However- Did you see Andrew's message? That South Africa has already peaked and heading downward? Yeah. I was looking at that data this morning. This is Andrew Ashkosvili.

And I think it's going to go back up. But I tell you what's going down is hospitalization and deaths. And so it's very clear that in South Africa, Omicron has not been a significant contributor, though there's two variables that have left to be fully defined. One was what happens when Omicron shows up with the older, fatter population that we are in the United States? Will that be a different data point? And there was some concern about children under five being hospitalized and whether that had popped up from Omicron or not. So these are the kinds of things we need to sort out to be able to speak more definitively about Omicron. The one thing we were all looking for was, does the vaccine sufficiently cause neutralizing antibodies to Omicron?

And yes, that has shown to be so with the booster. So I'm a little skeptical of some of that data. But in other words, why three vaccines and not two? It should be after two just as likely. It just may wear off. But we got to remember that for the mRNA vaccine, it's really a three-vaccine series. It's really a three-parter. I think to have sort of led the public to believe that the third piece was a booster was a mistake.

It's a three-part vaccine yet to be boosted. With Johnson & Johnson, it's a two part vaccine, much like the vaccine program for cervical cancer, the HPV vaccine. That's a three parter, right? It's one, one month, six months. That's how you take the vaccine to get the sustained immunity. It seems to be that way with the mRNAs as well. So having said all that, I was very anxious to speak to our next guest, our guest today, because I saw his interview, I believe it was with John Campbell, the nurse PhD in Great Britain, who gives out some very good. We really need to get on the show. Yeah, it'd be great to get him back. Maybe Kyle can help us with that.

But he does very, very solid, sensible, reasonable review of what's available. He has a little bias, but okay, and who doesn't? And by the way, my bias is optimistic. I have an optimism bias, and I noticed it particularly when Omicron came out because I immediately ran to it's going to be fine. Before I really had the data available to be able to say that. Having noticed that bias in myself, it helps you see bias in other people. And his bias is a little more of a catastrophic nature. He moves towards catastrophe very easily. Not easily. He spills into catastrophic thinking

when I'm still in my positive bias. And again, who's right, who's wrong, probably somewhere between us. That's the reality. Anyway, I saw him interview our next guest who was just describing to him his story, his clinical syndrome with a vaccine reaction. I'm of the opinion that because these things happen and people should understand what they are, and they're for the most part mild and people can recover from quite readily. And by the way, before you react to my present guest, he had been very clear that I think he said he's still glad he got the vaccine

because he wants that immunity. And God knows if you're having this kind of reaction to the spike protein in the vaccine, maybe it'll be worse if you actually got the COVID. I mean, myocarditis, pericarditis, and COVID is not an uncommon syndrome. So I thought, and to finish my thought here, he went out on that podcast and then was sort of destroyed on social media for daring to talk about his experience, which I thought was disgusting. It was disgusting to me that anybody should be in any way. There are two layers of disgust for these days, interfering with what you do with your doctor.

That should be none of your goddamn business and attacking people for describing their clinical experience. That is disgusting. Let's bring in my guest, Kyle. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media

and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f***ing sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician.

I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. Since the beginning of the pandemic, nearly one in five Americans has reported consuming an unhealthy amount of alcohol. Could be you, but only 10% of them are actually getting the help they need.

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Use the code drdrew for 25% off your first month or your annual subscription. That's at joinreframeapp.com slash drdrew. Kyle Warner. How's it going, Drew? Excellent. Thank you for being a part of this. I felt so bad for you when you were getting sort of destroyed out there, but I know we got your back, and I think my viewers here would as well. So you're doing well now.

Let's give an update where you are right now. You look great. Yeah, yeah. Just about a month ago is kind of when I had that breakdown post that you maybe saw. And I was, I don't know, it was hard because I did that interview with Dr. Campbell. And then about two weeks after that, I went to Washington, D.C. and actually testified in front of Congress in the Senate. We did a big press conference there. And that was really difficult just seeing how little people actually cared. During that press conference, some of the people that were invited were like Dr. Fauci, the head of the CDC, head of the NIH, head of the FDA, CEO of Pfizer, CEO of Moderna, CEO of Johnson & Johnson. All of those people were all invited to this hearing to hear vaccine injury. There was about 22 people that spoke. I think there

was 11 or 12 scientists and doctors, and then the rest were other people who had been injured. And yeah, it was just tough because, you know, we get there and all the people that are speaking are there ready to be there. And then you have this table with all the empty placards of, you know, Fauci and the head of the NIH, head of the CDC, all the CEOs of the drug companies. And it was just like a giant slap in the face, honestly, because we were hoping at least they would send a representative just to come listen and learn this story, learn what's happening. Because the people that were there injured, there were several from Pfizer vaccine, several from Moderna, one from AstraZeneca, and then a few from Johnson & Johnson as well. And then some of the speakers were like a scientist at MIT who worked on data and statistics. And we had people from the University of Baltimore, Maryland that do clinical trial PhD. And then we also had people from UCSF that have patents on mRNA technology. So it was a really, really interesting experience.

And there was also two people that spoke under the Whistleblower Protection Act, one from the military, and then one of the ladies that was there released all that Pfizer clinical trial data. That was kind of a big um to do a few weeks ago so you know when I kind of had that post on Instagram for people that didn't see it I was basically on my way to a doctor's appointment in the morning and that day I just had been getting just ripped by people constantly and it wasn't just like negative commentary but people were like going back and creating Reddit forums and threads with like my, you know, oh, when he was 11 years old, he had asthma. And this is why this happened to him. And we can't listen to him because when he was a child, he had asthma. And it was just so crazy to me that people were

doing everything in their power to find ways to discredit my story, as opposed to just listening. And then another big thing is you know i'm from boise idaho or i live here now but i'm from northern california you know my mom has been liberal her whole life voted democrat everything and it's just funny because the other thing people are doing is saying oh this guy's just another nut job from idaho you know conspiracy theorist right you immediately go they immediately go if they if they have any question about your point of view or your experience, you become nut job Trumper. Like you're suddenly, by not agreeing with every sort of catechistic letter of their religious point of view, you immediately trigger trump derangement because you're you must be with him which is so weird it's so crazy it's such a nutty and i had another lady

i had another lady message me and tell me you know just super angry message and to say you are the face of the anti-vax movement and you are killing tens of thousands of people by talking about this story let's let's address that let's address vaccinated let's start with that let's start with that you and i encourage vaccines are we both in that camp yeah i would say for sure there's a lot of people i know that should be vaccinated or i wouldn't i don't want to say should be but they should at least have the information to make that decision on their own. You know, if you're someone who has comorbidity. Hang on. Yeah, so I'm going to stop you. So I think it would be accurate to describe both of our position as definitely so happy the vaccines are here, number one, but number two, all the information should be made available so every patient can

make their decision with their doctor what the risk reward is for them, whether they should be vaccinated. Yes. Right? That's it. Period. That's the end of the story, right? Neither you nor I are going to... You should be entitled to make your medical decision with your doctor. It's insane that we are moving off of that as the basic ethical, moral, appropriate, medically appropriate position, which is get all the information, make the decision with your doctor. And if anybody gets in the way of the information, that's concerning. And that's kind of what happened to you. Let me tell you the one thing the the the panel you put together and the and the presentation that was had in front of congress is very very common uh for medical conferences and things so to me that was like oh why didn't though that go in front of why didn't

that go stay in the medical realm why did the why did the congressional leaders want to hear this it didn't i'm not sure that's the right place for that conversation. And that might have been why you got into trouble. What led them to want to hear all that? So I think what really happened is there's a senator in Wisconsin, Senator Ron Johnson, and he's been very vocal about his position on the vaccine thing. He's also been one of the few people that's willing to listen to the vaccine injuries and some people say that that is due to his own personal motivations but you know at the end of the day he's the only one that's actually willing to listen and talk about this thing so you know when they invited me to come out and speak I just kind of jumped at the opportunity and I I honestly

thought that I would maybe have the possibility of you know imparting just a little bit of an impact on those people that are funding all of these um I don't know, I guess the people that are making all the money, right? You would think that they would want to help fund their study, which is us. We are their study currently. And so the fact that there's a dozen injured people in the room and none of us are even enrolled in a trial to track our symptoms or to track what's happening to us or trying to help us get better and doing different experimental therapies i don't understand how that's possible you know especially if they're going to make 60 billion dollars between pfizer and moderna over the next year it's like why why aren't we in a trial right now seeing is there a genetic component to this

was it all just because maybe it was in administered into a vein or into a blood vessel like there's so many little easy things that we could do to learn about this and reduce the risk. Yeah, I agree. I agree with you. It's interesting. I've been wondering about particularly the way we inject the vaccines because when I had my Johnson & Johnson vaccine, I had chills immediately throughout my body. And I thought, wow, that's, huh, that shouldn't be happening from a local intramuscular injection unless it had some capacity to spread like it was a venous injection of some type. So I think that's a really interesting, one of the many interesting things needs to be discussed.

But I get why the heads of the companies wouldn't show up. I don't get why the CDC wouldn't at least send, did they send anybody? No. No, there they send anybody? No. No, there was no representatives at all. That's weird to me. That's weird. Senator Johnson. That is, really?

That was the only? Yeah, and there was also. Yeah, and also, Senator Johnson personally invited every state senator and state representative for all of the injured people. So for me and Doug, who was another Idaho injured person, they invited everyone from Idaho. None of the representatives showed up. None of the government officials showed up. The only person there was Senator Johnson and all of the speakers. And then there was no mainstream media that showed up either. So it was on election day. It was on November 2nd.

And that was the only day that they kind of penciled in for us to have this press conference. But yeah, we didn't really get the turnout that we were hoping for. And maybe that was naive to think that it would be something good. But I was disappointed. I'm not, you know, I've mixed feelings about the press getting involved with this. I understand why you would want that, but then it becomes just politicized. I just think this kind of thing should stay in the medical realm, but it should be highly distributed within the medical and scientific community to sort of talk about these things. And the fact that it immediately got pushed underground, that's disturbing to me. I hate to hear that. So let's, well, let me ask this,

what are you doing going forward? What are you thinking about? What are you interested in doing? So right now I'm still kind of just on the track of trying to get better, more healthy um my vaccine injury for people that don't know basically i had the pfizer shot on june 10th it was my second dose and about one month later i had um severe tachycardia symptoms which means this really elevated heart rate to the point where i couldn't get it to come down below like 140 150 beats a minute ended up going to the hospital got dismissed as having an anxiety attack the first time sent home you know without any further care and then four days later i had

like a minor kind of mini heart attack where my heart squeezed super hard and then it started burning uncontrollably rushed back to the hospital finally got them to listen i went to a different hospital this time and then um got seen by a cardiologist who diagnosed me with pericarditis and so that's the swelling of the heart yeah let's let's slow down so when you first went in did they do an echo car an electrocardiogram an ekg they did an ekg yeah they did ekg and ecg okay they didn't do an echo it's the same okay so the the echo the electrocardiogram in paracarditis uh now caleb maybe throw up the pericardium picture for me so pericarditis the heart sits in a sack a lot of people don't know this when you have an open heart surgery they have to actually open the sac the

heart six it's a bit of a rather thick fibrous sack and the lining of it can get inflamed and that's called pericarditis okay thanks caleb and when it does the ekg shows what are called elevated st segments in a non-anatomic distribution throughout the precordium it's everything everything looks like we look for these things as signs of uh restricted blood supply to regions of the heart. But when it's up everywhere, it means something's inflaming everything throughout the heart, and that's usually pericarditis. And pericarditis is dangerous. It's dangerous. And it can lead to what's called restrictive or constrictive pericarditis, where you actually get scarring in the myocardium, and it kind of restricts the heart from expanding and and beating the way it normally does so you want to make sure you treat this did they put you on

anti-inflammatories um not after the first hospital visit so the first hospital visit when i went in they just did the ekg and then they also measured my troponin level which was elevated it was at a 23 and so that still none of that was a big enough side effect to say hey we need to dig into this further because i had mentioned i think i may be having a vaccine reaction and that was like immediately the guy said no you're not and that kind of i messed up by saying that because instead of investigating he was trying to disprove but then the second hospital they measured everything again sent me to the cardiologist and they um prescribed me something called colchicine and so i did like a 45-day colchicine which cultures yeah colchicine colchicine and colchicine is an anti-inflammatory essentially it's um i mean they in the the

treatment of pericarditis more recently is colchicine it's also been anti-inflammatories like motrin type drugs also steroids corticosterids, like Decadron or prednisone, that kind of stuff. So the tachycardia is kind of interesting to me. Were they at any point concerned you also had myocarditis? So let's talk about myocarditis for a second. So Caleb, put the picture up that I wanted you to put up there. Myocarditis, so what that is is a microscopic picture of a cardiac muscle. And all that swarming-looking dark material is the nucleuses, nuclei of inflammatory cells going in and attacking the muscle.

So in myocarditis, the muscle gets attacked throughout the heart. A whole heart gets inflamed. And that by itself, it's dangerous. You can get rhythm disturbances. You can have sudden death just from that. Okay, now whole heart gets inflamed. And that by itself, that's dangerous. You can get rhythm disturbances. You can have sudden death just from that. Okay, now bring us back, Caleb. And down the road, you can get permanent damage to the muscle called cardiomyopathy, where the muscle just becomes a baggy bag that doesn't eat very well.

And that's time for heart transplant. And that's a really, really very serious thing that we worry about. We don't know. One of the things people have concerns about is whether we're going to see cardiomyopathy down the line from myocarditis related to COVID or COVID vaccines. Thus far, it doesn't look like we're seeing that. So did they worry about myocarditis at any point? Yeah, that was definitely a concern early on but it was interesting because the first hospital when they measured my troponin level it was elevated and then the second time i went in it was borderline so it wasn't still elevated so that was a good

sign and then when we did the echocardiogram he just saw the slight pericardial effusion he didn't see any myocarditis so then we followed that up with a cardiac MRI and then also a CT angiogram. And both of those were clear. And then basically, I just had to deal with the pericarditis. After we resolved the pericarditis, I was still having a lot of heart issues as far as my heartbeat kind of running away from me. And what I mean by that is like, if I stood up and i just was standing there for a minute my heart rate would go all the way up to 130 just standing and so we went in and did a cardiac stress test and they diagnosed okay so hold on i want to right you had pots but i want

to slow it down a little bit before we make that diagnosis because that phenomenon is not uncommon with covet right and long covet both uh let me share with you my own personal experience with Laminin is not uncommon with COVID, right? And long COVID, both. Let me share with you my own personal experience with COVID. When I had COVID, I had a fever of 103 and a pulse of 70. And I saw that and I went, oh, that's not good. There's something wrong with my heart. Because we do know that COVID causes myocarditis. And I was thinking, God, I must have myocarditis.

Because that is a pulse temperature dissociation, right? My pulse should have been 110 with a fever of 103, but it was like 74. So I kind of watched that. The other thing I noticed that is if I got up and walked, particularly if I walked up a flight of stairs, it went from 70 to 140, much like your POTS syndrome, right? And I think my own sense was that POTS and myocarditis is part of acute COVID. It's kind of a, at least certainly it was for me. I'm pretty convinced of it. But I've been seeing a lot of other phenomenon, cardiac phenomenon with acute COVID that leads me to believe that's a pretty common thing.

But it's not common for long haul. So the POTS that does happen with long haulers it does happen it's not that common um but i've seen a bit of it with the vaccine have you talked to other people who've had the vaccine to get pots yeah it's a really common common one and what's interesting is when i got my vaccine, I tasted the shot right away, like how you were saying that you got the chills. So immediately upon administration, I tasted it. And so that was kind of a red flag, like, oh, it might have entered my circular system. And a lot a quick observation on YouTube? I hate to interrupt. Okay. Okay. So you're seeing a lot of the comments, the negative anti-vax comments and stuff on here, but I just want to let people know on YouTube that you're getting censored on YouTube already with those comments. They really don't like when you say stuff like that. And we're not advocating to not get the vaccine. We're just talking to somebody who had an adverse reaction to it.

And we're trying to make sure people are as safe as they can possibly be when they get the vaccine and that they're fully informed when they take the vaccine. And we're also trying not to get a strike for the show. So we may have to turn off our YouTube channel and send everybody over to Facebook and Rumble and Twitch if you're going to continue to write these things. It's not because we don't love you. We appreciate your side. But it's just you're already getting censored on YouTube for your comments. And I can see them on the restream, but we'd really appreciate it if you just kind of keep it to a bare minimum. And somebody over on Twitch was asking about, do we get the arm cleaned off? Yes, I had my arm cleaned before I got it, and I felt a systemic reaction.

Okay, back to the more important stuff. But we may have to leave YouTube. That's possible. Also, Dr. Yeo is on Clubhouse, and he'd love to talk and be of support to our guests. Oh, we can bring Dr. Yeo in. Dr. Yeo has a lot of information about long hauler stuff. They've got some really interesting information heading their way. Before we go to Dr. Yeo though, I wanted to finish what you and I were just talking about, about POTS syndrome and shoot. Well, why don't you describe this part

where you were diagnosed with POTS? Because I interrupted you as you were saying that. Go ahead. Oh, it's all right. Yeah yeah so we did a cardiac stress test with a treadmill and that was kind of after i got cleared of the pericarditis and then you know we were make sure there was no myocarditis i was still having a lot of issues so he put me on the stress test to see what was going on and when i went from laying in the hospital bed to standing my heart rate increased from like 60 beats a minute to 110 just from going from laying to standing and so he was able to see that on the data and then that's when they made the diagnosis for pots usually they'll do that diagnosis on something called a tilt table where they

basically just change your body position and they can have your heart rate increase as you get more upright um but yeah once i got that diagnosis it was really kind of sombering because he told me, hey, here's this diagnosis. Most people will feel better within 12 to 18 months of getting diagnosed. You know, it seems to go away. And he said, I can put you on medication. You can fly all around the country to find specialists and work on this whole thing. But at the end of the day, most of the people I see, it just takes time.

So he's like, we just got to wait it out. And that was when i started to really do a lot more research on pots and found out there's a lot of people saying that it's actually a imbalance between your parasympathetic and your sympathetic nervous system so your body basically that was regulating properly that's what we think that's one of the thoughts anyway i'm not sure i'm totally convinced of that, but yes, that is a going hypothesis. Yes. Yeah. So I started seeing a neurotherapist after that diagnosis, and I've actually relieved a lot of the POTS symptoms now, which has been really good. But yeah.

Good. It's pretty miserable, right? I mean, you know, look, all these things are miserable. They're not fun. And I had long COVID. That wasn't fun either and so um well and then to have people you know like oh sorry it's hard at the delay i don't mean to cut you off but it's hard being an athlete too because before this whole thing you know i've

pro mountain bike racer i've been a multiple national champion i've always been a really fit guy and i had to actually find a primary care doctor during this whole process because I hadn't been to the hospital or doctor in like over a decade with being sick or anything. So it's been weird. I've had over 25, between 25 and 30 hospital visits and specialist visits in the past year. And it's just like, all I'm trying to do basically is advocate for this conversation and really ask the question, when you either forcefully or unforcefully coerce or push someone into making a medical decision and it backfires and it causes their life to change. And I haven't been able to work in five months. I haven't been able to ride a bike. I haven't had my outlet.

What happens then? There's no help. And I had a guy the other day reach out and just tell me, I need to shut my mouth. And that's what the VICP, the vaccine injury program is for. And I told him, you do realize that since these are unapproved therapeutic drugs and therapeutic procedures, it's not eligible for the vaccine injury program. There is no funding currently. And there is one that they're using called the CICP, which is the payer of last resort. Meaning if you have outstanding medical debt, they'll come in and try to help clean up

your medical debt. But they have had over 4,000 claims filed and zero have been filled by the government. And so that was a big topic at that press conference we did in DC. There's a lot of people meeting with individual senators, just trying to get some CICP claims filed. Because a lot of people are in debt, $50,000, just from diagnostics. And the guy, Doug, who was at the press conference with me, who was injured by Johnson & Johnson, he got paralyzed from transverse myelitis a few weeks after the vaccine. And then what was interesting for him is his first 30 days in the hospital cost him $1.2 million out of pocket. And so, I mean, what do you do in that situation? You know, and then you have people saying, oh, well, you're just the anti-vax nut job. It's like, dude, I got vaccinated because I thought it was,

I honestly thought I was going to help other people out by doing it. And I wasn't worried. I didn't fear COVID myself because I'm super athletic and have been fit my whole life, ate healthy, that whole thing. But I just tried to do my part and then it backfired big time. And now I'm just learning that a lot of the things that I was told straight off the bat, that it's safe and effective, period, is not true completely. And there was data all the way back in 2020 showing the adverse reactions that they were expecting. And it's kind of on track for what we're seeing in public.

And I don't know, it's just of on track for what we're seeing in public and i don't know it's just hard when you have companies making billions and billions of dollars and not helping that's really what i'm just trying to advocate for this conversation about is that right or not because i don't think that's right personally well and yeah i i would argue that you know the vaccine reactions are still quite rare but they do happen and people need to be informed when they make their decision. It's why I worry about mandates. You opened your statement by talking about mandates, and that's really where I have my grave concerns. When you make healthy people sick through your treatment. That's my profession. When we take a healthy person, we make them sick. There better be a damn good reason for it. And there better be something

in it for you, not just for other people. That's our ethical requirement. Now, I would argue there was something in it for you, even though in your head you were doing it for others. I understand that. But somebody should have sat down with you and talked about the reality of this whole situation. So what's the average age of people who get this condition? The average age of vaccine. Yeah. The average age of a vaccine injured person currently before the rollout for children was 33 years old. That was the average age of an injury and it's been dropping now and let's remind ourselves but caleb you need the vaccine you have yeah we got it my kids we got them vaccinated caleb you have a chronic illness you need you need the vaccine believe me right exactly don't want covet is you know it's it's weighing one bad thing against another guys you don't want covet you don't want it and if you're yeah it's no bullshit and it is and it's it's real

somebody asked i'm going to go to break and we're going to bring dr yo in here right after the break but somebody asked you know what is a vaccination i i define a vaccination as anything that activates your immune system to fight off a pathogen that's it so omicron might be a vaccination. You know, BCG is an attempt at vaccination. This is a vaccination. It's just a novel mechanism of activating the immune system. Anything that takes your immune system and boosts it up to fight a pathogen, that's a vaccination as far as I'm concerned. And so getting into splitting hairs about what is or is not a vaccine, I think is not a good use of our time. Okay. So I'm going to take a little break.

Yeah. Before you go, here's a question on Twitch. I think the YouTube people are coming over to Twitch to give their opinion, which is probably a good idea. The web person over here. Any info about why these rare severe reactions are happening? Good question. Well, let's get to dr yo that was yo on the after the break yo will know something about this uh because he's got some great stuff going on with the long hauler syndrome which is a relative of what you're what's happening to you uh we'll take a little break we're here with kyle warner kyle do you want to push any websites out or anything or anything of uh maybe your instagram k MTB? Okay. Don't call him.

It's okay. Yeah. I'm not, I'm honestly on Twitter. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just here to talk. Those of you on Clubhouse, I see you. We'll be there with you after this break.

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or as always, you can find it by visiting hydrolyte.com slash drdrew. That is H-Y-D-R-A-L it by visiting hydrolite.com slash drdrew. That is H-Y-D-R-A-L-Y-T-E dot com slash drdrew. And be sure to use that code drdrew25 at checkout for a special discount. Okay, we're back with Kyle Warner, and we are talking about his ordeal with vaccine therapy himself. And Kyle, let's go out to our friend, Dr. Yogendra. Yo, doctor, you can follow him at YoDoctorYo. The word doctor is spelled out.

And Dr. Yogendra is an anesthesiologist we have been connected with since early days of this pandemic, and he has been actively engaged in treating long hauler syndrome. And he's here with us now off Clubhouse. Ram, welcome. Hey, Dr. Drew. Good talking to you again. So did you hear Kyle's story of woe? Yes. Hi, welcome. Hey, Dr. Drew. Good talking to you again. So did you hear Kyle's story of woe? Yes.

Hi, Kyle. Hey, how's it going? Hey, I'm all right. I actually know Kyle's story because there were a couple of other people that were in that. I think that that conference up in D.C. a couple months ago, a couple weeks ago. So I know our team has been following Kyle. I know that Bruce and I have been trying to reach out to you, Kyle, for the last couple weeks. I know you probably got a lot of people, and we're also crazy busy.

So it's good to connect with you. Yeah, I would love to talk to you guys. Yeah, we'll hook you guys up ron um but but i'm curious you know uh a is anything that you guys are observing and of course i think about the class the the you know the spike protein in the classical monocytes or non-classical monocytes and pots is there a connection there it's my first question yes what we believe is taking place is that these non-classical so let's talk about long haul um and the s1 protein so um the virus has the has the spike proteins on it which and they have two subunits. So there's an S protein.

So when you look at the coronavirus, it's corona, it's crown. So it has an S protein, and it has two subunits, S1 and S2. And that's going to be important when we start talking about the vaccine. So the S1 is pretty much how the virus binds to the ace2 receptor the ace2 i'm sorry the s2 protein is how it fuses and injects the genetic material into the cell when it hijacks it so in long haulers what we've discovered is that the the s1 protein from the acute phase of the of the infection from the virus is stuck actually in between two immune cells and we just put this in our peer-reviewed paper and i think i sent you the abstract yes dr drew you did this morning um it's both the

intermediate and the uh non-classical monocytes the non-classical monocytes have an affinity to vascular tissue and one of the things we we know in medicine is that as kyle very you know you know one of the most interesting things about what i've learned with working with long covid and vaccination you know patients post-vax persistent post-vax issues, is how incredibly knowledgeable they are and how well researched. And Kylie did a great job explaining about the two branches of the nervous system, the sympathetic and the parasympathetic. So in your body, you have the parasympathetic nervous system is what controls the rest and digest and then the sympathetic so much control the the fight-or-flight responses and so if you look at the nervous system there's the somatic nervous system which controls voluntary movements and then you have the

autonomic nervous system which controls involuntary movements and hence the term autonomic because it's sort of autonomous and you don't consciously think to yourself, I have to breathe, or I have to beat my heart. It automatically does that. In the body, that's controlled. The parasympathetic arm is controlled by a nerve called the vagus nerve, or cranial nerve 10. And that's what a lot of times patients are going for vagal nerve control in meditation and other neural activities, they're really trying to control the vagal nerve. If you look at how it's regulated in the body, any of these systems, whether it's cardiac or respiratory, those are the major ones. It's like a balance between your sympathetic and your parasympathetic. It's almost like a seesaw that if you have something going up, then you have the other arm of the

nervous system triggering. Well, one of the things we know is the sympathetic nervous system, which controls heart rate and blood pressure, and also, like you said, the parasympathetic controls the heart rate through the muscarinic receptors, is that sympathetic nerves are covered with blood vessels. So blood vessels cover all sympathetic nerves. And it's just something we learn in physiology 101 in med school, that the blood vessels are going with the sympathetic nerves. And what we have described long COVID is a vascular inflammation or an endothelial lysis where there's inflammation of the cells of the blood vessels because these immune cells with the S1 protein are irritating these blood vessels. And because they are irritating now the sympathetic arm, we suspect that that is what's causing some of this tachycardia that a lot of these patients are experiencing,

where in fact it's also causing some of the orthostatic hypertension drop in the blood pressure, these unexplained tachycardia that patients are experiencing. I mean, some of the patients, you know, we've got over 2,500 patients we are actively treating, and about 250 of them are vaccine. So let's stop. Oh, 250 are vaccine related? Yeah, 250 to 300. I just looked at the numbers. And so how would you treat, again, I'm getting a little confused. Are all those patients people with POTS or all those people with long hauler from either COVID or vaccine? They're COVID or the vaccine. Okay, so POTS is one of the syndromes you're treating amongst that population. Yes? Yes. It's probably, I would say, you know, long-haul community, you know, long-haul cord is probably about 40 to 50%.

Okay. And, you know, VACS numbers, it, preventing apoptosis and causing them to go to the lining of the arteries, and I forget the mechanism, the CCR5, CCL mechanism that is causing inflammation, what's the solution? What are you guys looking at is solving this well you know what we're trying to do is reset the immune system and because what's happening is there's immune dysregulation taking place meaning it's almost like looking at a chessboard and seeing all the chess pieces are just not in places they're not supposed to so what we what our approach is resetting the sort of resetting the chessboard and i think it's a little bit um you know i i think if we said that our approach is a hundred percent of the solution i think you know we are just

getting too far ahead of ourselves when i say that i think what we're doing is resetting the immune system we are we're we're putting out the fire and then we're the next phase well but by maravirac that's kind of thing moravarac and the statin is so so talk about those treatments and should the question for kyle would that help him do we think uh absolutely i'll show you guys i'll talk about the vaccine yeah go ahead yeah so one of the other things that i've been having just kind of this chronic inflammation especially in my joints i was dealing with a lot of joint pain and i ended up going to so i did a four-day fast and that actually resolved a lot of my symptoms and then i went to a food allergist to see if i had sensitivities or something weird

causing this chronic pain and they tested my ige level which was at 883 and a normal one is below 115 and then like this is my food allergy back panel so that was my food allergy panel and my environmental allergy and again when i look at that i think to myself that may not be about the food that may just be about the mast cell hyper reactivity yeah exactly so that was when they kind of reacted to everything yeah they diagnosed me with the mass cell activation syndrome because i tested on a the highest level possible on every single thing we tested and then they started doing my blood tests for food and i was positive on pretty much all foods now so i'm on a really limited diet and that's helping my chronic inflammation but it's just weird how it

triggered like my entire immune system have have inflammatory responses. And then also now if I, like, I've been trying to do a few small hikes, like two to three mile hikes, really low pace. And then my heart will be kind of inflamed and burning for a few days after. And I give it a few days to rest. Then I can try again. But I mean, I used to be a guy who could do a five or six hour bike ride, no problem. And now like a two mile hike, my heart is done for a few days. So it's just this weird inflammatory cascade I'm fighting. So let's talk about, uh, Rom, as though Kyle's not here. Uh, he had an asthma history.

It is, are you seeing patterns like that in people getting immune hyperactivity? From, from the vaccine, from the vaccine or the covid no yeah i mean with with covid you know yeah with again with the long haulers now they're usually healthy they're much younger cohort of patients of the long covid patients the vaccine you know i just we're about to put our vaccine paper out in about a week um the where we're going to show the spike protein from the vaccine. It's a mechanism paper where we're going to show, just like we did with the second peer-reviewed paper, that the S1 protein, which we suspect most likely is coming from the vaccine,

is being retained in intermediate and non-classical monocytes, meaning that in a small group of patients, at least the ones we've been testing, we are creating long haulers with the vaccine. Now, the real encouraging thing is that they're really responding well to these medications. I cannot comment on how rare or not rare it is. I don't have those numbers. Yes, we have about 250 to 300 of these patients, but there's bias here because these are patients seeking us out for treatment. So we're not commenting on numbers. We don't know. I suspect it's rare, but I don't even know. I can't even comment. I'm not going to go anywhere near that. All we're doing is showing a mechanism. And what was interesting is just like we did on the

second paper, we used flow cytometry, confirmed that it was S1. We screened the patients to make sure that they never had COVID before. We did that with negative PCR, and we also measured negative, they had negative nucleocapsid, which is a type of protein that's found in the virus. And if you have antibodies to it, that means you've been exposed to COVID at some point. Now, it's not 100% because there are patients with positive COVID tests that have had negative nucleoca capsid. So it's the only tool we had at our disposal to at least have some sort of screening. And that is a limitation and will be a criticism in the paper, but one we can't, that's what, you know, the nature of it. But what we did was all those patients, we found the S1, we then put them through mass spec and we found the S1. We then put them through mass spec, and we confirmed the peptide sequencing.

So basically, we looked on a very deep molecular level. We actually looked at the S1 and identified the S1 protein. Now, the interesting thing, I don't know if Bruce, we talked about this the last time we were on with you, Dr. Drew, but the one thing we found with the post-vaccine people that we didn't find with the long haulers was that we found mutant S1 and we found S2 proteins. In the monocytes. In the monocytes. That's weird. Yeah. So what does it mean when you say a mutant S1? Meaning that there are amino acid sequences in some of these patients that the amino acids are different than what it's supposed to be, what the S1 is usually coding for. We don't know what the implications are for that. It could be an absolute nothing burger, but it could be making like antibodies that are maybe if you want to call them defective or, you know, I don't know.

We don't even know. We don't even know what that means. And it's very hard for us to comment on it because we're still trying to get understanding. It might be just some weird post-transcriptional. It could be. Yeah. Absolutely. It could be just that.

And then and then we have the S2 protein, which, again, we don't know what it is. We're thinking maybe they were coding for the entire S protein in these vaccines, and we are picking up the S2. But interestingly, we didn't see this in our long-haul patients. There were 46 that we tested. We didn't find the mutant S1 or the S2 in the long COVID, never been vaccinated group. So now that these monocytes are in there, all these S proteins, what we're finding is that the combination of Maravirac and statin, and the same mechanism with the statins are blocking fractal kind, which act Velcro, so those immune cells don't stick to vascular tissue. And then CR5 receptors on them are able to pull those immune cells with the Marovrac. It's almost like a magnet.

You're pulling them away from sites of infection. And the interesting thing is we are also detecting this in the intermediate monocytes which is another class of immune cells and they also express ccr5 so um usually the the never had covid vaccine reaction patients with that is usually about six to eight eight weeks of medications of the and would you ever just take somebody like uh kyle and just put them on a statin just start with that yeah there are people from from you know i get a lot of calls overseas from people yeah and they're they don't have access to maravaract or lab testing i just say look just go straight on a on a statin and a

baby aspirin because the two markers, and we're going to write, you know, in our paper, we're going to comment on this. Across the board, what we're seeing is elevations in SCD40L, which is a platelet activator, Rantese, which is a sign of obviously some vascular inflammation and activation of pro-inflammatory macrophages. And very interestingly, our cohort of patients, our average age was 40.1 years old. So, you know, younger patients, heavily more women, 72% of our cohort was women, 28% are men. And so most of the symptoms are more neurological so brain fog um peripheral neuropathy headaches are going to be some of the major ones and tachycardia um we've seen that about 60 70 percent of our patients and interestingly the some of the ones with neurological

symptoms are we're seeing a correlation with tnf alpha and there is literature that suggests that tnf alpha can cause some neuroinflammation so we're definitely seeing picking up on that and also picking up il-6 interleukin-6 elevations and let's just quickly though i'm like okay okay dr yoke i know what you're saying andrew kyle go ahead yeah um so one thing i wanted to say is that rianne who's the lady who's kind of heading up this whole react 19 group which is the organization that i'm a part of i guess it's this giant support group and they're doing a lot of research on vaccine injury um she had a lot of the neuropathy and neuro issues as far as like tinnitus and sensitivity to light and one of the things that really helped her a lot has been um ivig IVIG. So intravenous immunoglobulin. And that's been one thing that she's been doing a

lot of. And then also one of the guys who had another really bad bout of neuropathy, he just sent his, um, blood tests off to Germany. And I don't know if you'll be able to see this, but they did an auto, you might not be able to see this. I'll send it to you later. So you guys can show it later on, but it's, um, um auto antibody test and they were showing basically the ace2 antibodies were super high and then also muscarine and a few other different antibodies that attack your own body so i think there's a few different mechanisms at action and definitely one could be that spike protein being present in the monocytes. And then another one could potentially be the auto antibodies, basically your own body just attacking itself constantly and kind of out of sorts,

like you said. Yeah, Kyle. And that's a great, that's a great point. You know, one of, one of the interesting things that I, one of the things I'm interested in is if you look, one of the things Bruce has talked about is auto antibodies or the, when you measure it in laboratory medicine, when you have inflammation, and I've talked to a few other immunologists and people from the lab side of medicine, the assays get very sticky. Well, let me specify what you mean. The notion of autoantibodies is a complicated and not well worked out and not standardized area at all okay and so it's hard to even understand what we're seeing when we when you talk about that would that be a way to summarize it ron yeah yeah exactly and when you're dealing with inflammation dr drew it's all over the place it's like it's like a shotgun it's

like everything gets going and we don't know that – you have to really get terribly specific about the physiology. And saying there's autoantibodies flying around, like, okay, as opposed to saying there's a monocyte that is prevented from dying that causes it to stick on the lining of an artery and oxidize and damage that lining. Huh, that's a very specific mechanism. And so maybe we can direct a really specific treatment. So in medicine, we're always looking for these very specific biochemistries so we can target what we're doing. And so autoantibodies, back in my, before Dr. Yogender was trained, when I was trained, we would deal with those by steroids. You just put somebody on steroids to suppress the autoantibodies.

And that's not useful. That's not a good thing. It's a bad thing. They've tried to get them on prednisone so much. There you go. And that's where that kind of goes because it is such a, literally a shotgun finding and a shotgun approach to treatment. Always much better where you can get really, really narrow in the biology.

Ram, am I overstating it? No, you're 100%. You're 100%, right, Dr. Drew? Again, one of the things is I would be interested to see if we are able to lower inflammation using the Maravirac and statin. Then we go and measure the blood work. And I say that, I'll be interested to see what those autoantibodies show. And I'll say that because we've got hundreds and hundreds of patients in our program, long haulers, not the vaccine. So I can't comment on the vaccine group yet because we haven't

had the data yet. But in a long haul, we had many, many patients that came to us and said i've been told i have positive ana positive double-stranded dna positive you know rheumatoid fact all all these other things yeah and my doctor said i gotta be on these uh immunosuppressives and whatnot we reset their immune system they came back three months later all the autoantibodies were negative right i think i think because because you're going at sort of the root cause rather than the amplified outcome that's spraying all over the body.

And it's interesting. I would argue that if you actually trigger a disease like lupus, if that's what's being suggested, then that probably is a different situation and might actually need some sort of specific treatment for the lupus. But I'm very suspect about, I've not seen any of that. I'd be very suspect, right? But listen, guys, we're getting deep in the weeds. I want to try to pull back a little bit and get some

more questions from the clubhouse and whatnot. But what I like is that I feel like, Kyle, I hope you will get in touch with these guys guys and it's very simple maneuvers might have some real significant benefit for you um i'm trying to think of as anything else from i want to get from you want to talk about your your publication coming up coming up yeah he's what did what day are you releasing it the the backs paper or the one you talked to you sent me this morning oh the uh the s oh the um yes one that's the that's the second paper with the s1 where we we discovered the s1 protein in the non-classicals that just got accepted on december 6th we should have the abstract is online it's on my twitter page and that will be we're expecting that in probably in about two weeks um that we have the full paper

they're just doing the final uh editing of the graphs and finalizing a few other things but people are asking on my chat stream here very quickly what are the mechanisms of maravarac and statin what is that going at so statin so so again, if you think about the garbage truck analogy I've used before, it's garbage trucks with particles in it from the virus in long hauls and with the vaccine. And what we're doing is what statins do, those garbage trucks stick to blood vessels like a Velcro. And what statins do, and this could be any statin um everyone tolerates them very differently but what it does is like putting a piece of paper between velcro so it's preventing those immune cells from sticking to blood vessels what maravirac does is there's a receptor called ccr5 on those garbage trucks

and maravirac's like a magnet that pulls these immune cells away and when they pull them away what we're actually seeing, our initial thought process was, well, you know what, maybe we need to add an anti-inflammatory like an ivermectin or fluvoxamine or low-dose steroid. Very interestingly,

we're actually seeing that Maravirac might be also, by pulling those immune cells away from the vascular tissue, the functionality of those monocytes, so senescent, meaning that they're not undergoing cell death, they're just persisting with these particles inside of it, they're no longer having their function.

Their function is taken away. So they are undergoing apoptosis. So they're able to go through their normal life cycle and die, essentially. And again, it's this idea of the monocyte sticking to the lining of the arteries, and that's where the inflammation is occurring. These days, you talked about one kind of inflammation, Kyle, which is your joints getting inflamed, something attacking the lining of the joints. Very different kind of inflammation that we're talking about here, which I think is where the conversation about inflammation in the future will focus, which is what LDL does for some people, what insulin does for some people. It really causes oxidative stress on the artery itself. Again, am I getting that right, Ron?

No, 100%, Dr. Drew. This is sort of a very different matter. When we think of inflammation, it's not just one. There's so many different pathways. I want to make one other quick point because Kyle brought up his food intolerance and the mast cell activation taking place. And that is something that we've seen, you know, with tons of long-haul patients and even with some of the vaccine patients. Very interestingly, Rantese, and I posted this on Twitter a couple of weeks, about a week or two ago,

Rantese actually can trigger mast cells. It's so interesting that we started this conversation a year ago about Rantese, and here we are back with Rantese and now fractal kind again. It's so interesting that some, you somehow knew back then that Rantese was a key piece in all this

remember though we just keep on looking at the literature you know we yeah yeah i'm sorry go ahead look kyle oh i was just gonna say imagine where we would all be if we had open discourse i know i know that's why we're talking about it i know i know you may lose the youtube channel but who cares it's exactly why we're here talking i that's that's the crazy thing to me every time rams on we lose it we get a strike well we're scared about you know honestly we're a little bit terrified about putting out this paper and we are we are 100 we're full steam ahead but i'll be honest with you we are a little bit nervous because we are afraid of is like this is a mechanism paper that it's going to be turned around and we've already started getting attacked oh yeah well that's part of that's what

peer review is that's part of that process so get ready but just to put it out there and discuss it and we're not telling anyone to do xyz with the vaccine so we're just like look we found this we found this mechanism you guys figure out the epidemiology behind it yeah we don't know but this is an interesting finding but we're getting we know we're going to get torn to shreds but it's the truth it's what we found we're not going to hide behind it but it's coming we know it's gonna so drew i have a little tidbit of information rom is a spiritual man what happened his birthday is 12, 21, 21. So maybe he'll put out the paper that day. Cause apparently that's the end of the, the,

I just am interested that it's supposed to exist on that. It's one day before your birthday. I know. And are we supposed to make something of 12, 22, 22 next year? Is that going to be a special year? Better.

Gosh, darn it. But ROM is a 12, 21, 21 baby. So you have to, yeah. So if the paper comes out on that day, maybe. You better, gosh darn it. But Rom is a 12-21-21 baby this year. Well, happy birthday. So you have to, yeah. So if the paper comes out on that day, maybe a new beginning.

It's out. It's out. It's already out? Or it's been accepted, so it'll be out shortly. Yeah, I want to know when. Well, Rom, thank you for stopping by. I'm going to try to get some other calls here. But as always.

And just let Kyle, Susan, if you want to give kyle my cell phone i can talk to him we'll connect you got it great that'd be awesome thank you so much for all you're doing oh yeah he's really i mean those two have just been on it on it on it and they're helped by we i've lots of people now i don't know if anybody's on the thread maybe if you if you're one of his patients that has been helped sometimes you guys are here on the restream. Caleb, look for one of those stories on the restream here. We can post it on the screen. Let's try to get to some calls here.

I'm calling people up. You'll be streaming on multiple platforms if you come up. Citizen, you're muted. There you are. Hi. Hello. Yes. Thank you, Dr. Drew.

I really want to thank Kyle for sharing his story. I agree with one of the last things he said about discourse. It's just so frightening because it's hard to talk about these kinds of things. In fact, at one point I was avoiding talking about it just because of how political everything has become. But I've been following Dr. Patterson, Dr. Malone, Dr. Yagandra for a while now because back in late March, I took the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, doing it because I wanted to get back, get my life moving forward, taking vaccines before, never really had any bad reactions to anything except for Sloxan a long time ago. And I didn't have any really problems.

It was kind of interesting for the first two to three weeks. And then all of a sudden, I started to have some pains in the gut. I started having some weird things happen down there that I'd never seen before. They didn't last very long. Then it progressed to these pains, you know, random shooting pains around. But what has happened for me that is still persisting to this day, um, is, uh, buzzing in my like hands and feet and lips and mouth. Um, and basically I've been told, and I, you, you also mentioned something Kyle that I also can relate to that I didn't realize was a possible symptom is some sensitivity to light because I have noticed that a bit with me as well. And also some tinnitus with the the air raining stuff has is definitely it's not terrible.

It's not like, you know, or I can't stand it, but it's there. Anyway, there's two things that i was interested in yeah exactly yeah i i i you know i i heard you guys talking and and uh dr yogendra um uh but i think they were saying that they like it's so hard for them to get uh new people in because it's uh um you know, Such demand. Yeah, there's such demand for it. They're pretty busy. But they are getting people in.

They are getting them in. I mean, we can, you know. But I did get, I did show your show because I saw them on your show recently, which brought me the attention of your show, which I'm glad I found as well. And I played a little second segment where dr uganda talked about just put him on a statin and so my doctor actually agreed to do that uh he was he was a little bit unclear about the marivorak uh uh connection the ccr5 uh scenario but anyway um he said he would would look into it but the two things that i was curious about is one of the

things i was initially told is oh it'll go away eventually and my concern with that first question is that um i do i want this inflammation just to continue uh you know you know on and on and on and on right because it doesn't seem to really abate at all. Yeah. And the second thing is that even though I'm not anti-vax, say that up front, this is not medical advice, but I am very concerned about putting more vaccine into my system at this point. And my doctor has not said I really need to do it. He's not worried about my dealing with COVID if I have to. You guys make that decision together. That's your guy's decision. It's a hard decision. It's an interesting one, but you make that together. But what I'm curious on that second side of it was just if I am suffering from this rogue S1 protein that's cruising around the monocytes in an

epithelial layer and causing vascular inflammation, wouldn't I, by putting more of that in my system, be enhancing that problem? Because I have seen from what I'm dealing with compared to what Kyle is dealing with is completely different. I mean, if I had to live with buzzing in my hands and feet and lips and mouth, I could live with that. I wouldn't want to have to, you know, go unfortunately through what he's gone through. And because I'm a fairly normal person, getting medical attention and stuff, I'm lucky I have a nice doctor that listens to me and such. But I mean, it's hard to do because a lot of these therapeutics that people are talking about, you can't even do that if anything

would happen. So anyway, I'll go ahead and mute now. Okay, Susan, really quick. Dr. Yeo is texting me. He said, reach out to nursing at immunotrack.org. That's I-M-M-U-N-O-T-R-A-C-K.

Text that to Caleb, and I want him to put it up on the full screen. Yeah, because that's his nurses, and they'll get you onboarded immediately. It's nursing at immunotrac.org. And, Citizen, take a look at the screen. We're going to put that up in just a second. Kyle, you wanted to say? Yeah, so one thing I just wanted to say.

Yeah, send him over. Send him over. Go ahead. Yeah, one thing I wanted to say on regards to a second question is, you know, you're seeing in Europe, they're pulling the Moderna vaccine for people under 30 years old, a lot of people that are having the more aggressive immune response. And earlier, we talked about mRNA and the dosage. So Pfizer has 30 micrograms of RNA, and the Moderna has 100 micrograms of RNA. And you are seeing, at least in Europe, a higher incidence of issues with the vaccine

injury with the Moderna, which kind of points to the fact that if you have two Moderna doses, that's 200 micrograms of RNA that your body is going to try to produce. And if you have two Pfizer's, that's two times 30, which is 60 total. So the less amount of spike protein that your body's producing, it seems like you have two Pfizer's that's two times 30, which is 60 total. So the less amount of spike protein that your body's producing, it seems like you have a lower chance of having that reaction. So I thought that was really interesting.

And then the children's vaccine is 10 micrograms of RNA. So one third the dose of the Pfizer. So I just thought that might be interesting for him to, seems like the more RNA you have, the more likely you are to have a reaction. Yeah, yeah, it's which that makes sense, right? That's the way it is. Um, with most, you know, most therapeutics or most medication, uh, Angela, let's bring you on up here. Angela, go right ahead. Hey there. Hi, Dr. Drew. Hi, Kyle. I just want to send you a lot of love,

Kyle. I was supposed to be there with you, um, at the Capitol speaking. I'm a nurse for 23 years of ER trauma, pediatrics. I'm working in the San Francisco area and I had the exact same reaction as you. I was taken away by ambulance at the 12 minute mark with extreme tachycardia. And I am also part of the Patterson research. So they looked at my non-classical monocytes. I was the second person that they investigated. And I think they were really surprised to find how much S1 I had in my non-classical monocytes, about 23%. And so they immediately put me on the medications. And I was able to clear my S1 in about nine weeks on the meds. And my POTS symptoms were horrible. I was bed bound for days. There was days where I had to crawl to the bathroom. About four days, I couldn't get out of bed because my heart rate would go from 50 to 150 just by standing and literally had to be on the floor to try and make it to the restroom.

What did you imagine was going on? I mean, you're a nurse. You probably, your head kicked in, I'm sure. Well, yeah. I mean, I was being a nurse for so long and I'm connected with, you know, the best of the best hospitals at UCSF and Stanford. I was tested, diagnosed. I had a tilt test. I was diagnosed with hyperadrenic. So I knew what was going on. I just didn't know how to help myself to get out of the meds. And it was very scary.

I'm a dancer as well. I'm fit. So now I had my vaccine really early on. Being a nurse, I had it dancer as well. I'm fit. So now I had my vaccine really early on being a nurse. I had it back in January. And so I'm approaching my year mark and I do not have the POTS anymore. It's gone. And so I just want to give you, Kyle, hope as well as other people that it does get better and just keep on trying with treatments i've done other things too like low dose naltrexone you know when you're a vaccine um when these things happen to you with the vaccines you try all sorts of different things but i i was able to clear all

my spike my cytokine panel was completely abnormal i had had elevated Ranty's. I had elevated SCD-40L. And now I've had a repeat cytokine panel and it's completely normal. So what were you treated? What do you think was the effective treatment? Do you have any sense? Well, I did start getting better after I did the, I was put on a statin. I was put on Maraviroc. I did a little bit of ivermectin.

Um, I, I did LBN as well. Um, I also went on anti-inflammatory diet, mass cell issues. Um, so I just kind of hit it at all angles. I, I did everything. I just cut my diet down like Kyle. I did fasting. So I think all of it combined. And there were times where I was calling Yo and Bruce crying. I mean, they know me really well. And I have their cell phone numbers and I'd cry and ask them daily, am I going to die? Am I going to die? So it's very, very scary. There is light at the end.

Things do get better and the relapses get shorter and shorter and your good days longer and longer. Susan's mic isn't on, but I hear her reacting to all these stories. Do you want to say something? She's like crying.

Oh, I know know i was tearing up earlier yeah just breaks my heart well yeah thanks for sharing that angela i yeah thank you for sharing that i wish i could have gotten to meet you but actually finish girl finish your thought i had my song to be presented before i um was to be there with you and they wanted to do my cardiologist is so protective over me I've had multiple stress echoes and echocardiograms and the week before I was supposed to fly out to Washington I had to get another two cardi just to double that's the thing pericarditis and it's not just a one and done you are being followed for months and months and months and months. I mean, the real problems we worry about could be way down the line, right?

You could all of a sudden. It's not an easy thing. You're just treated with, you know, with anti-inflammatories and you're in your overachiever. You have to follow closely. So my doctors wouldn't let me get on the plane to go there. So was this from COVID or the vaccine? No, this was from the vaccine. I had Moderna.

I'm also like Kyle. I'm very fit and healthy. And so I did it to go back to work to help the frontline workers deal with COVID. Because we were in California, it was a real crisis at the time. Our hospitals were full. They made a huge mistake of sending prisoners from Southern California to Northern California, got our San Quentin fully infected. So we were in a crisis and I wanted to be working in the ER, helping the ER nurses. And so I got my vaccine for that reason. So mine was on January 19th. And I didn't do it for myself. I did it for my patients and I did it for the people at risk.

And to be fair, you had a lot to be gained personally because you were going to go into the trenches and you needed to be vaccinated. I mean, really. Exactly. And I was literally hospitalized at the 12 minute mark. I collapsed and had about five hospitalizations in the two-month following. So let's answer a question that Citizen asked that I not yet answered and that has been flying around for Kyle as well. And you sort of tilted at it when you said it gets better. We don't know what the time course is, but it looks like, and we can't guarantee it is so, but it looks like 18 months, you know, 12 to 18 months, people seem to pull out of this, whether it's long COVID or vaccine-related reactions, and especially, I think, the vaccine group. Would you agree with that assessment, Angela?

Yeah, I think we're all on a different path. I think, you know, just what I noticed is those first four to six months are really difficult. And what's really hard is you have days or weeks where you're better and then all of a sudden it's ripped out from underneath you and you're flat on your back again. And that's really discouraging. I will tell you from a mental health standpoint, that is one of the things that drive humans crazy. And you've probably seen this, Angela, people walking in the ER with labyrinthitis. With labyrinthitis, it goes up and it goes down over two weeks, and then it comes back, and it comes back. And when it comes back, that's when people lose their minds. Because immediately the thought process is, it's never going away.

I'm going to be like this forever. And so the recurrence has become more traumatic than even the original outbreaks. But it does get better. Yeah, the disease. It's like breaking your arm. You know, if you break your arm, you know you're going to recover and get better, which I did break my arm a couple of years ago. You have this trajectory.

You know you're going to continually get better. But when you feel so horrible and then you get better and you go back to that horrible place, it's really mentally taxing on you. But then what ends up happening is your days get longer of getting better. Your relapses get shorter. And everybody's different. So I've seen some people heal at three to four months. I've seen some people at 12 months where they're still really struggling. I'm at 11 months. So it's all very different. We all have different bodies.

And you are not in a normal age group to be breaking your arm, so I must ask what happened? I had a seven. Well, my daughter was seven, and I was roller skating, and I fell. You had a radial fracture landing on your hand? I had a Colley's fracture. Yeah, a Colley's fracture. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah.

Perfect. And Drew, to go to your point too, just your point with like the 12 to 18 month thing. I think it's so dependent on how severe your injury is as well because, you know, like my friend friend, Maddie and Doug and Suzanne, we're all partially or fully paralyzed. Now they're, it's not going to change in 18 months. Yeah, well, transverse myelitis, transverse myelitis is next order shit. Transverse myelitis is something that just happens with all vaccines.

And let me explain what it is. It's literally where your immune system attacks your brain at the source of the cervical spine, sometimes almost mid, you know, brainstem and you become quadriplegic potentially, or at least partially quadriplegic. It is a horrible dreaded worst possible case reaction to any vaccine.

And there it's a well-known vaccine complication. So that's not the group we're talking about to be fair. Maddie as well. That's the same people. That's a whole different. well. Maddie is, you know, that's a whole different. Yeah, yeah. No, it's, I understand. But this treatment we've been talking about, transverse myelitis, is a specific thing. Remember I earlier was saying, if you triggered lupus, you probably need treatment for the lupus.

Same thing is true as transverse myelitis. That's a disease state. It needs its own treatment above and beyond all this other stuff we're talking about so that's why i would wish i wish that they would research maddie because that is horrific i'm one of the things i'm most angry about um she is not she's not getting better and they are not no transverse myelitis guys i've seen a lot of it over the years so it's it's. It's not cool. What is that? It's immune attack on your cervical spine and you become quadriplegic. It's really bad. And like any nerve damage, once it's real done, it's done. Go ahead, Kyle. I'm sorry.

No, it's okay. One thing that was interesting too is that after I kind of had my breakdown moment, I was just so beat down from people talking shit and feeling like crap. And then also going to DC and seeing that no one cares really. Yeah. When I stepped away on Instagram, then they started attacking the other people in the group more. And so Maddie and her mom had a really bad day the other day. We're like crying and people are wishing this 13 year old, they're wishing for a 13 year old to die because she isn't she's counter-narrative you know it's counter-narrative and then you have people saying what is wrong with us trying to get famous it's like people were telling maddie you know what

this wasn't from the vaccine it's because you got in a car accident like no she was in the clinical trial for pfizer you know i mean how much more how much more she was in that do you need it what is wrong with people well they haven't even diagnosed her that's the thing if they would have diagnosed her with transverse myelitis she right now is diagnosed as a stomach ache she's got you know they they haven't even officially diagnosed her because they don't want to write yeah they don't want to recognize what her what her injuries are so she doesn't even have an official diagnosis because they won't recognize her and that's

infuriating if you know it's it's really really sad well it's not okay that that we can't do our job angela you know we can't just be practicing clinical medicine anymore we have to be worried about all this political burden and luggage, baggage bullshit that comes along with it all. And I'm glad, go ahead. It shouldn't be political at all. Medicine should never involve politics. And as a nurse, what makes me the most upset is I've always practiced where we give risk benefit. Right. We let people know. We give them informed consent. And if something goes wrong, we are transparent about it.

We never lie. So when you have a child that is injured and damaged, you take care of that child and you get them help and you don't ignore them. You don't gaslight them. And then the other thing is,

I believe I have family members that are vaccinated. I have lots of friends and nurses that are vaccinated. It's okay for people to go get the vaccine, but there needs to be informed consent. And a lot of the data that was in the clinical trials wasn't disclosed. I didn't know about that. Angela, you may have missed the early part of our conversation where I was going off on this exact issue. I don't know how long you've been practicing, but I can't imagine what happened. 23 years. Yeah, I've got 40 now under my belt.

And what has happened to our profession, I just can't even imagine this. This is the most astonishing thing in the world. And my father was a family practitioner, and I have him in my head just going, what? What? What's happening? How is this possible? He's been gone a long time, and I have him in my head just going, what? What? What's happening? How is this possible? He's been gone a long time, but this would have killed him again. I would have loved to know that going into this vaccine that Maddie was injured, that Brie was injured, that 266 people dropped out of AstraZeneca.

I would have loved to have known that. And I do have a pretty good sense of the landscape of the potential harm of vaccine, and yet I'm considering going in for another booster. But if something happens to me, I'm not going to blame anybody. You can tell me that. Yeah, you're right. I'm thinking more Pfizer today after hearing the conversation. You don't need a big load.

I would not blame anybody. I would just think, well, on me, I made the wrong decision. The booster is only a half. But you guys, the booster is is half but this wouldn't technically be a booster this would be the second part of a moderna vaccine it's a little different nobody's gonna know that it's on paper you just get that little card oh i see what you're saying i actually want the protection too if i'm gonna go through that risk but well angela uh i

hope you get to i have to take care of dr i. I'm looking at this great picture of you at the beach. I hope you get to go back to the beach and whatever it is that you and your family get to do and return to a normal living, which is really what we're all looking for here. Yeah. Feel free, Kyle, too, to reach out to me, too. I can give you more information about specifics of what I had to go through and what I did. So feel free to shoot me a message. I think we're friends on Instagram and I'd be more than happy to help you out with some other things.

Good. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys. Bye-bye. And Kyle, thank you for coming forward and telling your story and suffering the slings

and arrows that come with that. I'm having an anxiety attack. Why are you having an anxiety attack? Well, it's complicated. You know, like it it's complicated it's complicated because that's right yeah i mean there's a lot of people that are having anxiety attacks about this whole thing because it feels like there's a no win you know you have covid which you don't want to get no one should want to get covid and then you have the vaccine that people are afraid of getting and then they're being gaslighted and they're saying if you don't don't get vaccinated, you are a, you're scum.

You know, it's like, no, you're not scum. You just are making your own decision. And it's, it's not even approved yet. You know, how do you force an unapproved medical procedure on someone? It is complicated. That's the real point. It's complicated. This pandemic's below.

They suck. It sucks that we have a pandemic. And guess what? It's dangerous. And we're trying to help people mitigate, reduce consequences, reduce the transmission. And we're doing things that we wouldn't do in normal circumstances. They're not normal circumstances. And you have probably by getting vaccinated helped other people as well.

And certainly by telling your story you're helping other people and hopefully people will work with their physicians and their medical providers to make good risk reward analysis for them. There's no doubt in my mind that had I not had COVID I would have gotten the vaccine

hearing your story and all the other stories I would still go get the vaccine. Now that I've had a vaccine and the natural immunity i'm sort of hybrid immunity it's a little more challenging question so we'll see what's the matter susan sorry you're talking to yourself well and one thing i will say despite yeah one thing i will say by speaking out is um like we talked about it kind of has been decreasing hesitancy for some people just because now they do know the side effects and they know what's going on. And also there's been a ton of people who have reached out that had a reaction and they hadn't put two and two together. So by me

speaking out now they're saying, oh my God, I've been suffering tachycardia. And then they're able to follow the same path and find help instead of just being like, you know, let go by the medical system. Yeah, that's exactly right. If we're not discussing identifying this, how are we going to get people into treatment? And if they don't understand that there are treatments, they're not going to do anything anyway. My peers need to be sort of beefed up on what they need to do. We did put up the referral source for the COVID Long Haulers. You want to put that again? COVIDLongHaulers.com.

There's an email. Caleb had it up there a second ago had that website that I gave you Caleb did we confirm that that's the correct email because I've gotten two different ones it's the immunotrack with TR no C the first one I gave you

immunotrack it's a immunotrack.org there it is immunotrack. Nurse. It's a nursing at immunotrack.com. There it is. There it is. Org. Would you mean to track what Susan? No, no, no T no CT. No.

Okay. Just wait. Okay. Wait, what? That's the wrong web. That's the wrong address. I've had four different ones now. S I N G at nursing at.

Immuno. T R a K. That's what he's got. That's what he's gototrak.org. That's what he's got up there. Yeah, well, Casey just put it up. It's the wrong one. Okay. All right. Someone's getting all these emails now.

Yeah, we're spiraling. Kyle, I hope you had a pleasant experience. I hope this ends up being more positive than your last experience talking on a streaming show. Even though I think you did a lot of good. Don't click on the link until after the show. We want to have everybody here on the thing.

We can see a link. I think speaking to Dr. Campbell was an important thing. He has a very big international audience, and I think that was important for people to hear and see. And, you know, people need to be able to know what to look for and what to do. Yeah, we need to have – And think about their risk reward. For people that are interested in learning more,

there's two websites they can check out. And one is called react19.org. And the other one is realnotrare.com or.org. I'm not totally positive on that one, but both of those are good places where there's a lot of kind of anecdotes about what people are doing for treatment and just going through this whole process and there's a lot of information also react 19 has a little bit of money set aside to help people with funding for

injury and if people want to donate they're also accepting donations to help out so there's a lot of good people doing a lot of great work on this thing great news and then covidlonghaulers.com is the other place you can go so i think the email is on there somewhere if you guys want to double check it all right uh kyle thank you so much my friend and uh stay in touch whatever we can do to support you let us know i know citizen needs to check out the nursing uh email because dr yo said yes they are taking people okay susan i'm i wish you had watched while i was trying to say goodbye to kyle but poor Kyle got swiped off the screen while you were talking. Yes, Kyle, we appreciate you being here.

We appreciate you coming on, telling your story. And I feel like you're going to, you know, I think talking to Angela is probably a good idea and do what you can that has worked for other people and know that there are treatments and you can get better and you will get better. I think that's, I was saying that to Citizen as well and to any of you who are struggling with these things out there, whether it's related to COVID or related to vaccine. This whole thing sucks, but we're going to get through this and we're going to make it better systematically. We're going to find ways through it. I've been saying that from the beginning that we have, the medical system in the United States has a way of sort of improvising and finding solutions and coming up with stuff. It's not instant.

It takes a while. And we have sort of – there's stepways along the way where we try things out and we hope that we do things that don't cause any adverse reaction, which is why we repurpose things like fluvoxamine and things that have been well-tolerated over the years. Moravirac. Science works. Well, it does. We get people like Dr. Yeo and Dr dr yo and dr i'd say stay positive uh stay out of the uh the polarization that is not helping anybody uh stay out of the panic that is not helping anybody and uh yeah stay stay informed and work with your physicians and your caretakers and

we will be back uh monday with uh brian kilmeade he wrote a book about two historical figures that I know a lot about and feel very strongly about. And so I wanted to talk to him. It's Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln. And I've actually been reading his book and it's good. And I'm very picky about that period of history. So I'm delighted to say that Brian has picked out really the important, really important moments, the historical moments and portrayed them in an easily to digest and accurate way i found it quite quite quite good book uh we have a quick comment by mckay smith on um youtube she said don't click on the comment by whitney cook it's a scam um also i just want to mention that you know if you're going to put links up there

it do them at the end of the show because we don't want to lead people away from our show during the show and if i put one up you know just cut and paste it put it somewhere and go look at it later because we really appreciate you guys hanging on and uh andrew ashkaz really is bringing out the saying look for paxlovid, which is the, whoop. Oh, there's this. There it is. Thank you, Alana. And this is the new, is it out yet?

Do we have it? No, we're waiting for it. It's still in the port. Okay. It's coming. Bobbleheads. But Paxlovid is going to be a major step forward. Hopefully, Molnupiravir will have some impact as well.

But these are the antiviral therapeutics that are coming out very shortly. And they look amazing to me, particularly Paxlovid. That's something I'd have ready to pull the trigger on very easily if somebody gets sick from COVID, in my humble opinion. You know, it's funny. I used to have dreams, nightmares at night when I was a kid that I was paralyzed and I couldn't walk and I couldn't move. Those are called night terrors. I know. And I swear, I listened to this and I'm like, I would wake up and go, oh my God, thank God my legs work. Can you imagine that actually coming true? Like I, it happens. All right, you guys, again, Brian Kilmeade on Monday.

We're going to be going Monday through Thursday next week. We have Vinnie Tortorich, a great vinnie torterich in here on uh wednesday monday you have uh uh kill me from fox right right which i just told them all about uh and uh we have a couple of guests i'm i gotta get uh sort of uh inform more about the tuesday and thursday guests but i'm sure they're going to be good but uh vinnie brian monday and wednesday and two other guests tuesday and thursday and we sure they're going to be good. Vinny, Brian, Monday and Wednesday, and two other guests Tuesday and Thursday. They're all across the week. Is it Stuart Pierce at 3 p.m.? Patricia Stewart.

Stuart Pierce. I don't know quite what that one is. Vinny on Wednesday, and then you have Brian on Monday, and then we have Jedaliah Bila on Thursday. They're good. They're the best. They're amazing. We may have one on Friday, too, because we're going to pile them all up before the Christmas holiday.

Before the holiday. Excellent. And Dr. Ram's birthday, which will be the day of the end of the world. So we have to all get all those shows in before that. And everything will be at 3 o'clock. We look forward to seeing you then. And until then, thank you, Caleb. Thank you, Susan. And thank you all for participating. Appreciate those of you over on Clubhouse.

We're going to be ending that. God bless you guys for coming on and telling us your story. We really appreciate it. Appreciate it so much. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine

and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or

suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.