Ask Dr. Drew - Sodagate: How Shady “Big Soda” Lobbying Firms Allegedly Invaded MAHA Via Influencer “Bribes” w/ Tom Renz & Dr. Randy Bock – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 469

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

Is MAHA being invaded? X users noticed a strange pattern of MAGA influencer accounts posting near-identical oppositions to the removal of sugary soda drinks from the SNAP program. Journalist Nick Sortor alleges the campaign was funded by Big Soda organizations in an attempt to subvert the MAHA movement via a secretive agency called Influenceable. Though it was likely a legitimate sponsorship, the posts did not include FTC disclosures and misleadingly excluded any indications that they were paid promotions. “I strongly lean libertarian and don’t care what choices people make – UNLESS they impact others,” writes attorney Tom Renz. “We pay for SNAP and if you are on SNAP you may well also be on Medicaid. I don’t want to pay for unhealthy food and then have to turn around and pay for your healthcare because you ate it.” Tom Renz is an attorney from Ohio dedicated to fighting corruption and defending freedom. Find more at https://tomrenz.com and follow him at https://x.com/RenzTom Dr. Randy Bock is a physician at Regeneris Elite Men’s Health Clinic with over 30 years in primary care. He pioneered a sobriety-based narcotic-detox program in 2008 and authored Overturning Zika. His forthcoming book is titled Withdraw to Freedom. Find more at https://randybock.com and https://x.com/DrRandallBock 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're gonna talk a little Soda Gate today. First is with our friend Tom Renz. Of course, you know him as an attorney who's fighting for issues around freedom and fraud. And we have also Randy Bach. Dr. Randy Bach, we discussed things like COVID and some of the nonsense around Zika virus last time he was here. He's got some follow on for paid big soda distortions of influencers. And who do we believe? Who do we not believe? We've got a lot to talk about, including Maha and what the lobbyists are doing to get at the Maha. We may be speaking to some of these people at some point in the very near future. So I want to get these guys opinions on what

we should be doing and yours as well. I'll be watching you on the restream. And also I'm checking in right now by you guys over at the Rumble Rants. Reminder, shows are starting as of today at 2 p.m. Pacific time. Be back right after this. Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre.

Psychopaths start this way. He was an alcoholic. Cause of social media and pornography. PTSD. Love addiction. Fentanyian and bizarre. The psychopaths start this race. He was an alcoholic. Because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for ****. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying.

You go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. You have trouble, you can't stop and you might help stop it.

I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say.

I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say.

I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got a lot more to say. I got Dr. Drew is here. Thank you, Drew. Hey, dr. Drew here And when you were younger, I would answer your darkest difficult questions on loveline today The world is even darker, but I'm here to help you make sense of the madness Politicians and celebrities they love pre-taped interviews because they can edit out their fumbles Spin their messages before it ever gets to you. That is why we do our show live Join me for ask dr. Drew live streaming every every week at DrDrew.tv. Listen

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I think it's out now, I think it's out today. In event, we are going to talk to our friend Tom Renz, an attorney from Ohio, dedicated as he is described to fighting corruption and fighting for freedom. You can find more Tom at

TomRenz, R-E-N-Z, T-O-M-R-E-N-Z. And that is tomrenz.com and Renz Tom on X. And let's talk a little SodaGate, Tom, welcome back. Good to see you, Doc. How are you? You as well.

So I was talking to Adam Kroll about this very issue this morning and he was saying he was a little confused by people who took issue with anyone aiming at these subsidies of people buying soda. And he said, well, why don't we just put cigarettes in amongst the opportunities for them to purchase the snap opportunities? So it will just be cigarettes and

soda, why not? I mean, if that's how we're going to do it, then cigarettes and soda? Why not? I mean, if that's how we're going to do it, then cigarettes and soda. Throw in pot and some booze and we're golden, right? We got all set then.

Yeah, I mean, listen, this is something that to me was really surprising. Yes, there's just this pushback. And it's almost like it had to be paid for, right? Because why would I want to pay to buy you food that's gonna make you unhealthy

so that I can then pay for your healthcare, right? I have no problem with helping people if they're in need. But hold on, hold on. No one's gonna prevent them from purchasing soda. If they want soda, they can buy soda. If they want soda, they can buy soda. If they want cigarettes, they can buy cigarettes. It's just, I don't think our tax dollars should be funding, as you say, the consumptions of products

that are deleterious to their health. We don't surely know. It's like people don't understand human behavior. You don't want to reinforce bad behaviors. Just for the standpoint of the wellbeing of the individuals you claim to care so much about. And I don't think the federal government should be playing for the healthcare consequences of what happens when people are drinking sugary drinks all day that we pay for especially.

I couldn't agree more, Doc. And I lean very libertarian. I don't care what you do or how you live. I don't care what you do or how you live. I don't care. You know, you do. But you have the right to go buy all the soda, all the, you know, whatever sort of thing you want to take. You can buy it, right? But why should we pay for it when on the backside? Listen, if you're on SNAP, there's a definite correlation between being on SNAP and being on Medicaid. We're going to pay for your healthcare. So once we promote you eating badly, drinking badly,

whatever it is, we're then going to pay for you being sick because of it. If we really want to do something right by our people who were, and I'm Maha, right? We're all Maha here. If we really wanted to do the right thing by people who were in need, we'd consider

funding gym memberships. We consider funding organic foods. We would start removing requiring that anything eligible for SNAP does not have with it any of these chemical additives, the highly processed- Is anybody talking about this? Is anybody talking about anything like that? Well, I am and I am well, I'm working with a group. There's a group out there we just

started a global wellness forum. And this was Sayer G and Ed group and Marla Maples and there's a whole ton of people involved in it right now. And we're just kind of kicking off. We're all pushing for healthy everything, right? And it's kind of a ma-ha group.

We're getting all sorts of things right now. We're pushing chem trails, we're pushing healthy foods, we're pushing bands on mRNA, or at least some actual studies on it, the whole nine yards, but basically everything ma-ha. So there are people talking, but it really needs to gain some steam. So who are you? Again, I may have an opportunity to talk to some of the Maha team coming up

soon here. And who is it that you are speaking to and where does the pressure need to be applied? Because it seems like a pretty simple, I want to say fix, but posture to take that is totally consistent with what Robert Kennedy, as far as I know, intended of his position. Well, it kind of depends. Somewhere along the lines,

Bobby's getting a lot of pushback. We know that, right? And we don't know exactly where it's coming from. But every move he wants a lot of pushback. We know that, right? And we don't know exactly where it's coming from. But every move he wants to take is pushback. Now, I would suggest this, Doc. Now, you know this as a doctor. You know, you and I have talked a lot about my suspicions regarding everything big pharma. But what you may or may not realize is that big pharma and big egg have merged. Okay, so for example, Bayer, who owns Bayer Pharmaceuticals, also owns Monsanto, who makes glyphosate, Roundup, right? They own tons of seed producers.

They own a number of these other things. AstraZeneca, tons of seed production, tons of stuff like that. What's happened is, is big Pharma and Big Egg have merged. A lot of the vaccines for animals are made by the same companies or spin-off companies of the Big Pharma companies. And so when we look at the Big Pharma, Big Egg unholy alliance, which of course ties into processed foods and all sorts of food production, one of the things that I really have been spending a lot of time on recently is looking at, you know,

what would, could this be the ultimate snake oil sale? Right? You make unhealthy food, you promote unhealthy food, people eat unhealthy food, and then they need your pharmaceutical products to get healthy from unhealthy food. You know, we could then carry that further if we wanted to look into safety and efficacy of the pharmaceutical

products. But, this whole thing becomes very much a suspicious thing to me. Why is it that we're using highly processed seed oils when no other country in the world is allowing the same sort of chemical additives that we are? Why are we doing all of these things that allow us to eat food that makes us unhealthy, that makes us sick?

Why are we putting untested mRNA vaccines into our food supply? I want to interrupt. I mean, I think everyone kind of understands that's where the rubber hits the road. My question is who needs to hear, who needs to be pressured to find out why there is delays, why there's not some initiative,

some movement in this direction? I think we got to ask Bobby. I mean, I love Bobby. I mean, you and I, he's done great work, but we need to find out from him who's interfering with his ability to get things done. Because at this point, at minimum, Drew, at minimum, Bobby could have, would have, should have released all of the FOIAs that were requested, the legally requested FOIAs on everything related to food, mRNA, vaccines. I mean, all he'd have to do is do that,

and we'd have enough evidence and information to change the whole world in minutes. I mean, it would be mind blowing. So where is that for information, where is that? What is that? Is it emails?

Is it court documents? What are we talking about? Well, if you look at the number of foyers that have been requested over the last several years that have been held up by various organizations, Naomi Wolf has asked for information, Tom Fitton has asked for information, everybody in the world has asked for information, and then a whole bunch of people you've never heard of.

A lot of those FOIAs were ignored or they were, you know, put on the back burner. We could get through those FOIAs, that would be one thing. And if you're asking me what could Bobby do to be effective, I'll tell you what. Doc, if I were given authority, if I were Bobby Kennedy, I would, first of all, ask for all the reports from a project called Project Salus. Project Salus was an AI project. It was a joint project done with HHS and the DOD, and they tracked the safety and efficacy of the vaccines.

I blew the whistle and dropped one of those reports back during COVID. I would also ask for the Medicaid, Medicare data on hospitalizations and efficacy of vaccines and certain pharmaceutical interventions we're paying for. I would look at, that data is there. The FDA has that data at its fingertips, Center Medicare, Medicaid studies. They have all that stuff there. It's a matter of some very basic database searches.

If they need help, they can call Elon. And we actually had a whistleblower. I had a whistleblower who had access to that. We had it in court where we saw safety efficacy issues. All of the data that we need to prove what Bobby needs to do is available. He's got to pull that data, and he's got to put it out there. They didn't promise to ban vaccines.

They didn't promise to ban anything. They promised transparency. Transparency is what we need. We don't ban anything until we have the data to prove it, but that transparency is not there yet. So what is Project Salus? Project Salus was something that I

kind of brought to the public awareness back in I think 2022. And this was back during the time, the report that I got was released within weeks. Anthony Fauci was out there telling us that we were having a crisis of the unvaxxed. The hospitals were overflowing with unvaxxed from, you know, with regards to COVID.

And he was telling us that, you know, it was the end of the world. Project Salus was a report that I found I got from, it was a joint project. And it was an artificial intelligence analysis, and it was done between the DOD and HHS.

And what they were doing is they were tracking the safety and efficacy of the COVID vaccines. Within the report that I blew up and kind of put all over the place, they said that according to the Medicare Medicaid databases, 60% of new hospitalizations were in fully vaxxed and 71% of new cases were in fully vaxxed. Now this was at a time where Fauci was still telling us if you don't get the vaccine, you're gonna get COVID and overflow the hospital.

So he was outright lying. It showed he was lying and he knew he was lying at the time, which isn't a surprise for Anthony Fauci. Project Salus is regards, specifically in regards to COVID vaccines, and it's important. But when we look, the reason that I bring up Project Salis

is so relevant still today is, first of all, we need accountability on the COVID vaccines and they're still on the market, which is absolutely beyond me. And second of all, because it's, this is a really great illustration of the fact that these guys know and have the data in hand. You just have to know where to look for it.

Once you look for it, if you make it public, we can see what's going on and then we, the people, can start advocating for what's right. We can start pushing for some of these political decisions. You just had Cassidy. When Bobby Kennedy was trying to get confirmed, you've got Cassidy up here lying through his teeth about everything related to vaccines. Bobby's right. I've done the research.

Do you know that there are no studies out there, no double-blinded clinical controlled placebo studies demonstrating absolute risk reduction on either transmissibility or death on pretty much any vaccine out there. There's some data you can pull on the COVID vaccines if you want them and you'll find that the absolute risk reduction for symptomatic spread only for symptomatic Drew is 1% or less. They didn't publish absolute risk reduction on death just on symptomatic cases.

And it was at the 1% mark, according to the data available. So this data is out there. And if we're gonna be transparent to deal with things, get to it, give us the data. It doesn't take time to get it. So I'm getting a little overwhelmed by all this because there are some sort of urgent things that he needs to do that I'm also confused why he hasn't done. Like let's get pharmaceutical commercials off television. For God's sake.

Let's figure out a way to disentangle. What I keep saying is, look, in medicine, yes, for decades, the pharmaceutical agents would come in and give gifts and trips and whatnot to doctors. For the last almost 20 years, certainly 15 years, we don't even let pharmaceutical reps into our office, certainly not in California, and they are not allowed to give us so much as a pen for fear that it would distort our judgment or just doesn't look good. A pen, forget anything else.

Yes, I understand that pharmaceutical companies still pay doctors to give speeches, but those doctors are talking about what they believe to be true. It just happens to be coincident with the pharmaceutical companies want to say to other doctors, but they get paid to go out and push that.

Now, but everyone else, we have nothing, and I mean nothing to do with pharmaceutical companies. Why can't we have a same standard for our public officials? It's disgusting. Even the appearance of impropriety should be washed out. Well, we can't even get judges to follow that, let alone public officials. So I agree with you 100%.

Listen, I'm looking over and interestingly know, interestingly, interestingly, I, and I got on my notes on my other screen here. So I was looking for SodaGate, it's some of the FTC stuff, right? So it's a federal trade commission. And they give, they actually provide examples of material influence and things like that, right? And let me give you an example here, right? So this is, if you're an endorser and you want to endorse something

and you have to disclose that you're endorsing in certain situations, right? Otherwise it's a violation of FTC rules. Now let's think about this, Doc. Example 13, I'm reading directly from 16 CFR 255.5. An app developer gives a consumer a game app to review. The consumer clearly and conspicuously discloses in their view that they were given the app

which normally costs 99 cents for free. That disclosure suggests that the consumer did not receive anything else for the review. If the app developer also gave $50 for the review, you would have to disclose that. Now think about this, Doc. We're talking about a 99 cent and a $50 app. The FTC is worried about that. They're telling you that if you're online and you're posting about that 99-cent app and the $50 endorsement,

that's a violation of FTC. Now let's consider what's happening with our federal officials. Now let's consider what's happening with the incentives that are occurring. In an exciting live dealer studio, exclusively on FanDuel Casino, where winning is undefeated. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca.

Please play responsibly. First of all, how about the CDC incentives that they still haven't disclosed, right? We know that you are allowed to own certain intellectual properties. Fauci and crew apparently or allegedly owned intellectual properties on some of these

vaccines, other things. They haven't disclosed that. These are the guys who are deciding whether this stuff is safe and effective. And they won't even disclose what their royalty payments are from these vaccines or other poisons

that they're regulating. It's the height of hypocrisy. So what do we do? That's why I'm feeling kind of overwhelmed when we talk about these things. I mean, you talked about the FOIA documents we're not getting, you talked about all these, I mean, so many complicated issues.

Much like you, I'm a simple man, Tom. I'm using the Tom Brands approach here. I'm a simple old physician from Southern California. And it seems to me that keeping it simple is the way to go. Because I'm looking for

pressure points. If I get to go talk to these folks, I want to know what the hell. I want to know exactly why we folks, I wanna know what the hell. I wanna know exactly why we're not disentangling these things, why aren't we doing this? Why is that happening? And what do we need to do to correct it?

And is it just eye of the ball? There are other priorities right now? I can accept that. These guys are moving fast, a lot going on. I get it. But what is it gonna take? What's it gonna take? And what is your plan? And one of the ones I've been looking for too, he wants to, he said he's gonna

do a RICO action against the major journals for allowing pharma to influence them. And God knows we saw that during COVID, it was just ridiculous. So what's going on? What happened? Is Donald Trump getting in the way? Are these lobbyists getting in the way? I'm hearing as part of the Soda Gates sort of scandal is that these lobbyists are looking for any way into the maha consciousness.

I interrupted you, give me your thought. Well, you're right, one of those things is true and it is a complicated mess. But let's keep it simple, right? Right, so I'm a dumb lawyer from Ohio, how do you- One of those things is true and it is a complicated mess. But let's keep it simple, right? Right? I'm a dumb lawyer from Ohio.

How do you deal with lies? Turn the light on, right? You shine the light on these guys. So Bobby was brilliant in what he was saying, right? So his approach, let's focus on transparency. So what he needs to do, and I don't want to work for the government, but I will volunteer to help on these things, because I'm not going to lie. I don't care who the boss is. I ain't going to lie. So

I don't think I can work for the government. But what I would volunteer, and I'd be happy to be involved. If I was given the authority simply to investigate and report, all you need to do to deal with this is start shining the light of truth into these dark areas. And that's everywhere. I can tell you that if I had the time, Drew, I could come up with five stories for you a day that would make the public lose their mind over what's occurring. Just even from the outside. I mean, when I look at how they determine safety and efficacy without clinical controlled placebo double-blind trials in vaccines and pharmaceuticals, it's mind-blowing. When you realize that the pharmaceutical companies are the ones that do the studies control the studies and then

self-report to the FDA You know and then the FDA just says oh, okay Whatever you say and and that's how you get any sort of safety or efficacy test on pretty much anything big pharma That that's shocking to people It's shocking. Yeah, so I think what Bobby's gotta do, and I will help him, you can tell him I'll help him, is he's gotta start digging into certain areas. There are certain databases he has access to,

particularly Medicare and Medicaid. You take a single database program. Let me stop you. Let me stop you with that. That's one of the reasons I was kind of stepping off of that plan of reviewing the Medicare, Medi-Cal data. It's going to get into the weeds in ways that are going to be surprising to you in that, A, how

the diagnostic sheets are completed, particularly if people die, is extremely, it's not inaccurate. It doesn't necessarily reflect what was happening at the hospital with the patient. You literally have to go review the medical record. And now we're talking about millions of records and that's not gonna happen, number one.

Number two, then we're gonna get into a whole freaking ridiculous argument about Fauci at all Number two, then we're going to get into a whole freaking ridiculous argument about Fauci at all saying, no, no, no, I never said people weren't going to be hospitalized or get sick with COVID. I said they were going to have less complications and

they're going to be less ill. And so if you hadn't had the vaccines, you see the ICUs would have been overwhelmed, but because they weren't overwhelmed, it's't had the vaccines, you see the ICUs would have been overwhelmed because they weren't overwhelmed is because of the vaccines. That is an argument that is, I'm with you, wrong, flat out, inaccurate, it will go forever. It will never go anywhere is my concern,

especially when you're dealing with Medicare and especially Medi-Cal records, the diagnostic categories are just all over the place. I'm sorry to say. Yeah. Well, I'm aware of that. I mean, look what they did with the DMED. So after Teresa and the crew came up with the DMED stuff

and then I did it at Senator Johnson's round table, we were literally watched as the Defense Department went in and changed the records. We know they altered and manipulated the records and we know, I can show you it's garbage. Even if they didn't, I'm telling you, even if they didn't, you're gonna be, you know, I just feel like I'm all about the FOIA.

I think that's great, but I feel like this particular spot, it's not gonna bear fruit the way you think. Just because I know how these records work. I just know how medical records work. And particularly for those kinds of resources and those kinds of patients and things, it's going to be a mess. And then to prove what we want to prove, I don't see it. Anyway. Well, and also remember, I mean, one of the other things that we had in court was in 2020,

they changed the coroner handbook, right? And it's the first revision since 2003 They changed it So anyone that might have had COVID or been exposed to COVID around the time of death was called a COVID death or COVID case So you're right. The data is messed up. It's manipulated. It's garbage I actually that's in a court case and it's a one-pager I can send you the one-pager if you ever want to see that one. It'll make you throw up in your mouth a bit because they actually told doctors, they actually told doctors, they said listen, if someone might have had COVID and

you don't call it a COVID death, we're going to investigate. If not, we don't care, right? So if you call anything COVID case, we're not looking at it. But if you, you know, that's how they get so many diagnoses. But remember, Doc, we're not just talking about COVID on this, right? We're also talking about Maha generally.

We, when we talk about safety and efficacy of drugs, you know, part of what you have to do is you do have to pull from the medical records to an extent because there's no way to know what, you know, some of these things are doing otherwise and you're going to have to adjust for it. Now some of the data is going to be apparent. But again, I just want to, I just want to again issue a warning because I've actually done that kind of research and I want to research paper, research competition on exactly that

kind of thing. Does this antibiotic work? Yes or no? You have to, and the head of the infectious disease at LA counties now 100 years ago, when mammoths walk the earth, the head of the LA county infectious

disease program said to me, he goes, he said, this is what you have to do. You have to ask the narrowest of questions and then just do least squares and null hypothesis and either works or does not. The null hypothesis is either

informative or non informative. Does it work or not? And that's it. That's about the best you can do, but you got to be very clear about the end points. Anyway, I'm sorry. I just, there's just an area.

I'm frustrated by all of this because it's not, it's not going anywhere. Well, how about this time? And I'm getting frustrated. Yeah. How about this? What if I told you that you don't even have to look at those numbers because they already did? So we have from 2020. To that point, you're to that, and the issue of changing the diagnostic codes and whatnot, did you see Sasha Latapova's sort of email blast this morning?

Not the first. On her sub stack, she has a whole, Sasha of course is this brilliant farmer. Sasha's got too much intellectual horsepower. She's not like me and Tom. And so she has documented all of this material from the Defense Department of them really looking

or sort of behind the scene organizing the entire COVID operation as a national security event. And that she has all this evidence about how they, you know, some of the things that we saw in COVID were like, what, what, like, what, who did that? Why did that happen? How did it get so coordinated? She's building a case now that the Defense

Department was in there doing a lot of it. Is that more of the FOIA stuff we could figure out if we had the FOIA documents? No. So this was one of the things, and you're right. So one of the things that I talk about, and I've talked to a couple of the, you know, you scientists out there, the one thing that you tend to share, and you're an exception to this rule,

is you're all too damn smart for anybody to understand. So you need a dumb lawyer to interpret it, right? I'm not as smart, that's right. It's exactly right. We translate it. You've got that special skill to translate, but most doctors don't. So you bring in a lawyer who's used

to talking to a ninth grade educated jury. So here's what I know. We have an immense amount of data. The entirety of the COVID operation was run through the DOD. So we can't just do the FOIAs because remember the DOD isn't subject to FOIA.

Where it's a national security issue, it's not subject. So in that case, what we have to do is we have to look at where HHS was working with DOD. Now we also know because we have the evidence, I mean, the USAID grants, all these different things that implicate intel agencies, right? So the CIA was acutely aware that we were sending, you know, the tech over to China to build this

in the Wuhan lab in the mid-2010s. CIA was aware, the USAID grants, which CIA was, you know, I mean, they're actively involved in from beginning to end, you know, they, you can't transmit, there's a couple of regulations, ITAR, other different things that relate to trade in certain instances, right? And if you're going to send the know-how and the equipment to genetically modify or to screw with a disease to essentially create bio weapons, there's records of that. There's people that monitor that.

You have to apply it. So there are certain databases that we could look back and see who approved what when and what they knew. Now to do that and to get that data, you've got to have security clearance and you've got to have someone who can investigate it and you've got to have it put out there. This goes to the heart of the issue though and this is much more complicated. Now Bobby can take a bunch of stuff and he can make a bunch of stuff transparent and visual right away if he wants to get into certain data that

he already has access to, right? So we know because of the 2020 FDA report that they were using a number of databases and a number of different things to monitor safety and efficacy of the vaccines. We know that there are a number of internal programs that they use to monitor safety and efficacy of other things here and there that they could put out and share information on.

So there's a lot of data he could put out. But if you want to get to the root of what happened with the thing like COVID, you're going to have to have security clearance and a true investigation. Because the reality is, if you look at the JFK files, look at the JFK files. They openly talk about using biological and chemical materials to quietly initiate regime change to do different things. So was our CIA involved in this stuff? And my answer is yes, I could make the case if we had an hour. Yeah, Tom, that was one of the most striking things about the Kennedy files for me was

in particular, I don't know if you caught this, but they were talking about adulterating sugar that was going from I think Cuba to Russia or making cows sick in Cuba. The whole idea was a regime change in Cuba. But one of the really interesting threads was about a Dr. Bergdorf who was sent to Montana. He was the world's expert in rickettsial and Borrelia diseases. And he was there, this is what I'm led to believe is in the documents, I haven't seen them explicitly myself. But it suggests that he was there in Montana at this, essentially a bio lab, to adulterate some of the rickettsial diseases in such a way as to create a chronic illness that they could then give to the farm workers in Cuba to try to destroy the food supply.

And that illness was a rickettsial or Borrelia-borne illness to cause chronic disease. And they moved it to a place, they apparently moved the actual agent to Connecticut, where it got into the deer tick population. And we now know it as Lyme disease, which the name is Borrelia burgdorffii, which I thought was really fascinating.

So the guy's name is on the Lyme disease. But maybe I've got the story backwards. Maybe he discovered it and I'm reading into something that isn't really there. I don't think so. Why was it in the JFK files then? Why was it in the clandestine documents? Well, it indicates to us that we have a long history of meddling in things that are both unethical and illegal,

right? So a lot of this would be illegal if it was done by you or I, but because it's done under the guise of national security and in our intelligence agencies, you know, it's okay. And I think that the most foundational thing that we've got to understand when we look at what Bobby can do, his hands are going to be tied on certain things because without security clearance, now he's got it, but he can't go out and declassify that Barta was involved directly with the creation of SARS-CoV-2, DARPA was involved, that these different groups were involved. He can't go out there and, Doc, I am ready, I'm working on right now, I'm gonna be making the case that this wasn't an accidental release.

I'm gonna argue this was intentional. I believe that I can prove that. You should talk to Mei Ling, what's her name? Help me everybody, Li Meng Yan, I think. She's of that opinion too, and she had worked on the background of the virus in Hong Kong. So she's somebody that could help you with that. I don't have an opinion. I certainly know that China was engaged in a lot of bad behaviors around COVID, there's no doubt about it.

And they should be held accountable. In fact, I think, isn't Missouri actually sued them successfully? They've holding them to like $20 billion of expense in Missouri? They did. I don't know if that's going to do any good, but you know, let me ask you a real hard question that no one wants to talk about. They're usurping the farmlands. They're usurping the farmlands of the Chinese. I'm assuming those are private citizens, but it's kind of an interesting move. But go ahead. What does nobody want to talk about? Then I got to let you go. Number one question I want to ask, nobody wants to say it. Was it China or was it us? Was it the CIA?

Was it our deep state? Listen, you can't tell me there's no deep state. We just saw the Kennedy files. You want evidence? We've got evidence. So let me ask the question. According to a 2021 study by Oxfam, 2021, $5 trillion had changed hands already related to COVID. We see people murder people, we see people do horrible things for a few hundred

thousand. What would you do for $5 trillion? I think it's worth asking. Yeah, listen, even imagine all the pieces of that that motivated people for millions or billions of dollars. It's crazy. And COVID clarified so much for me. I mean, I was a, I was a, I don't know. I was very, so moderate. I didn't have any strong opinions.

I was just like, this could be okay, this could be okay. How do I know? Now COVID was like, a lot of stuff came into focus. And now we have to all speak up when we see the clarity. Doc, you've been, listen, so I've had the privilege of talking to a lot of people. And I work with a lot of scientists. And you've been one of the most open-minded people I've worked with. You've actually been a lot of scientists. And you know, you've been one of the most open-minded people

I've worked with. You've actually been a scientist about this. When we present evidence, now you hold my feet to the fire, you don't let me get away with anything. But when I present you with evidence, you've always accepted it. And when it's good evidence, you're good with it.

So that's the hallmark of science and that's what we need to get back to. That's what Bobby's got to push. He's got a number one thing he's got to do. We don't have time in this show, but if we did, there's a number of places he needs to look, some bushes he needs to shake. There's some easy low hanging fruit

and he needs to get some of those quick, easy wins now, now, now, so that he can continue to build on that momentum. Send me an email with your top four and if I get to him, I'll lay him down in front of him, see what he thinks, right? Can I ask a question? I'll send you something in a bit.

Just a hypothetical question here from the producer, but what if Kennedy has gone into those files and he's found things that he knows we're not gonna like? For example, if let's say he found something that proved, oh, it is most likely from a bat and it changes everything. Like what if you found evidence that he knows we aren't gonna like

and that's why he's not taking action? Caleb, he has told me not any specifics but that what's going on is bad. That's it, it's not good. So I think he's already into it, into the bad shit, let's say. But I do think he's a man of courage and honesty and we'll see. I want to hear what Tom wants me to

ask him and then I want to know how we're going to move forward like simple doctor and lawyer brains suggest he might. So Tom, again, other than X, Tom Renz, it's TomRenz.com and then RenzTom on X, correct? Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

And I appreciate the support. Yeah, and I want to, there's a lot here. There's a lot, lot, lot of stuff. And again, I always admire your relentlessness and your willingness to get in deep and hope your family's doing well and we will talk soon. Thank you, sir. All right, man, talk to you.

All right, Randy Brock comes in in a second. Similar topic, more infectious disease. We got a lot to talk about. He's very, Randy's been, Dr. Bach's been very involved in what's going on with the military and some of those ideas too. He sent a long thread that I, I mean, I was sort of overwhelmed by frankly,

so we'll see if we can get that into the terms that Tom and I can understand. We'll be right back. We're gonna hear from the people that support us and we love and thank you if you would support them because we can keep doing this thing right back. Well, you've heard me praise Paleo Valley's grass-fed finished beef bone broth and the delicious meat sticks.

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Dr. Drew. Dr. Drew. All right, now we are going to speak with Dr. Randy Bach. Randy amongst other things is, of course, a physician. He is at Regeneris Elite Men's Health Clinic,

30 years in primary care. He pioneered some sobriety-based narcotic detox programs. In 2008, he's authored Overturning Zika, which we talked about last time. His upcoming book is titled, Withdraw to Freedom. You can follow Dr. Bach at randybachb-o-c-k, and that's, excuse me, randybach.com, and then on X it is D-R Rand Randall Bach B-O-C-K.

Bach, welcome to the program. Here we are. Uh-oh, I'm not hearing him. Is that at my end or is that Susan? And we don't have sound. That was me. I apologize. There we are.

Thank you so much, Dr. Drew. I had myself muted so I wouldn't step on anybody's toes during the excellent Tom Wren're in. Thank you so much, Dr. Drew. I had myself muted, so I wouldn't step on anybody's toes during the excellent Tom Wren's interview. Thank you so much for that. Did you discuss withdrawal to freedom last time you were in here? No, no, but we should. Tell me about it.

I think it's a topic that, yeah. I'd love that. I mean, you're far more expert on these topics than I am, but I think I, um, I try to bring kind of an outsider perspective to whatever I do. Um, it doesn't always work at home. I mean, my wife expects me to have insider respect with our marriage, but for many other things I try to do.

You mentioned, uh, the null hypothesis and I actually use that term, uh, just earlier today I was communicating with Dr. Nicholas Christakis, MD, PhD, maybe MA, I don't know. He's a multi-credential guy, a professor. He kind of got attacked by the woke mob in 2015 at Yale University, near and dear to my heart. And- I remember this. Yeah. And so we had a little bit of communique because I had written an article recently in Brownstone for whom I write regularly. Thank you, Jeffrey Tucker. And it was about kind of China, 2020, all that kind of stuff.

And I'd made a judgment about what he had written. Anyway, long story short, he wrote back recently that he's going to look into the Zika thing himself. But I was using the null hypothesis concept with him that you really just can't look at the Zika phenomenon. You have to kind of look at it with an open mind. And that's what I think people don't do enough of with a lot of these things. So that's not what... That's what I zeroed in on with Brett Weinstein, too. His sort of take on this is that most people that are medically trained, even most scientists so

called now, aren't trained in the scientific method. And that it's a very delicate tool and null hypothesis is one of the applications. And most people in science don't even know what that is anymore. And you could argue that it maybe it's outdated in certain settings.

But I feel like most of science is just getting into data analysis and engineering, which is not the scientific method. It's useful and it pushes things forward. Yeah, go ahead. That's a great point. You know, science gets applied to a lot of things. I mean, I know lots of my contemporaries, kids,

you know, are studying political science and maybe there's some science to that and there's social science, but science, you know, kind of has two terms. I mean, there's the body of knowledge and science, you know, refers to knowledge like conscience and whatnot. But there's the body of knowledge, the science, you know, first to knowledge, like conscience and whatnot. But there's also the collection process, which has to, you know, fall under kind of reproducibility.

You know, this is this gravity thing, and every time I drop this, it'll happen over and over again, unless there's a strong wind. You know, this is pretty much reproducible and provable. But not many things wind up having that kind of rigor of reproducibility. I was just speaking with Jacob Rich, who writes for Reason. There's a tongue twister there. And he was talking about, you know, he's been going over a lot of these

kind of meta-analytic studies. And, you know, it's, it's GIGO, garbage in, garbage out. You, people have, you know, the answers they want, and then they put stuff in and they wind up getting, you know, whatever they can kind of come out with at the end. And I think you pointed that to the first part of this interview, when you're talking about kind of parsing out, you know, death data,

because people put in what they want to at the time. And you really, you know, it's kind of like trying to untangle, you know, the spaghetti. It's harder, you know, it's easy at the beginning, it's hard at the end, it's all mixed up together. And these things, you know things kind of get parsed. But I don't want to divert from our time here if you want to-

Let's go, we are getting off top a little bit. Let's go, I wanted to hear more about your theory of the military involvement in this. And you have a long treatment on this topic, right? On the military funding, military involvement in this. And you have a long treatment on this topic, right?

On the military funding and how it worked and you've seen evidence. As again, using the Tom Wren's prism, as simply as possible. So, simply as possible. So you're going to have to specify the question a little bit for me.

The military aspect of COVID, military aspect of controlling kind of health, I mean, you don't pick a choose. COVID in particular, COVID is sort of the case example, I guess, would be the way to think about it. Well, the thing that would got me

interested in this aspect, I've been writing for Mr. Tucker for quite some time now. And I wrote a few different articles on Dr. Fauci and kind of the moment. I think both he and I are interested in the moment that Donald Trump turned from somebody reasonably rational about COVID as a bad flu without a flu shot in advance into something somebody that saw this as a bio weapon. And there's a lot kind of written

on this topic. I don't think as much of it's kind of generally known, but right around the Ides of March, not too far from where we are, March 13th or so, Trump kind of came in, like spring, let me say,

like spring and winter. He came in like a lamb, he left like a lion. He kind of locked, locked everything down. So after proclaiming quite the opposite prior to that. And people trying to recollect the records show that there were aspects of this that were referred to the military.

And a lot of the COVID operation war speed and a lot of the responses that happened had military fingerprints on. So a lot of the COVID, you know, Operation Warp Speed, a lot of the responses that happened, you know, had military fingerprints on. So they, you know, a lot of these things were done under security directives. I'm not particularly expert on that, but what I have been working on is kind of like the ancillary aspects

of how things were complicated and kept forward on a kind of a high heat level. And in a sense to kind of satisfy a little bit of the emergency statutes. I mean, the fact that we had kind of a high heat level, and in a sense to kind of satisfy a little bit of the emergency statutes. I mean, the fact that we had kind of this emergency use authorization, the nation was under emergency, had a military aspect to it. And, you know, what we wound up seeing was, you know,

kind of the forbearance of interim therapeutics. You know, if we had been like for HIV, just waiting for a vaccine, you know, kind of the forbearance of interim therapeutics. You know, if we had been like for HIV, just waiting for a vaccine, you know, we'd be waiting, you know, 30, 40 years later for that vaccine. Therapeutics have a clear role in, you know, dangerous viruses and emergent virus and so forth. And we did not do that.

We have doing that in order to keep the pressure on to have the emergency use put on. The article, you know, I've written a few articles recently on kind of this ancillary aspect of the kind of militarization of health. And so the most recent article on this topic, it's called, it's really prosaic, it's ASPR and BARDA, which are two organizations under HHS, bureaucratic dysfunction and biodefense. So what we have here is a world frankly of Dr. Fauci's devising after the 2001,

I don't wanna get too deep in the weeds here, but 2001, it was 9-11. And then if people may remember this thing, Amerithrax, it was this anthrax spreading and it went to politicians and whatnot. And after that, the culmination of that was basically kind of the expansion, frankly, the doubling of Dr. Fauci's realm and regime.

He, and his salary, he went from like, you know, kind of 200,000 to almost 500,000. He remained the highest paid employee. People wonder why, is he there for a while? No, because he basically did a military operation. He took over, basically duplicated the DOD's biodefense weapon aspect, kind of the microbiology weapon warfare,

on which we spent probably all told more than we've ever done on nuclear weapons. One form or another- Let me stop you. With that information, did you hear what. Let me stop you with that information. Did you hear what I said about Lyme disease and Dr. Bergdorf? Yes, I did.

It came out in the GIF. That's amazing, I know. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, Borrelia burgdorffii. And there is sort of descriptions of how it ended up in Connecticut at a lab near Lyme, like an old mystic or something. And then Tom asked a question,

that this is why I bring this up. He said, well, he thinks it's an active release. It wasn't an accident, it was done volitionally. And then he said, is it US or China? And I was going to ask him, but I decided to ask you instead, how do we even understand that difference anymore? Because we were sending the backbone, they were sending it back here.

We trusted, I mean, I just saw what the so-called public health officials and the pandemic preparedness people did in relation to their Chinese peers. They believed them, they trusted them. They did what the Chinese told them to do, which was the wrong thing. Which was the wrong thing. And the same thing was going on in the exchange of these viral particles and these pathogens and the shared research.

So President Obama outlaws it here, so we do it in China and then we bring, I mean, how do we even understand it? Except, and is it even different when Chinese citizens are doing the work in Wuhan, yet it's all done for us? How does that work? How do we understand what whose fault this is? Well, you make a great point. The question is, who's us, Kimusabi? It's like, there's us, us, let's say the people.

That's another level to it, Kimo Sabe. Or what did Kimo Sabe call, yeah, Kimo Sabe. Tonto. Tonto, that's the other, Tonto, Tonto, Tonto. You'd be Tonto, I'd be Kimo Sabe. And so that's even another layer to this, right? That's even a scarier layer, if you ask me. Who is us?

That's a crazy question. I never ever thought I'd have to think about that. That's freaking crazy. It's wild. It's a funny thing to speak to. Tell me about it. You probably played a game of

risk where you kind of accumulate the countries and you try to get your pieces on all parts of the board. It's not that different of a monopoly. And amongst the bureaucracies, they have the same kind of thing.

Dr. Fauci made this move from just NIAID to getting a piece of the DOD under NIAID and informed ASPR and then BARDA. And so this is kind of a move that was extracurricular, not necessary, duplicative, but expensive, but he did okay by it. I would just make that as a template for what happened since.

There's been kind of a lot of bleed, no pun intended, between one agency and another and between locales. And so what can't get done here gets done elsewhere. I think there's a lot of what's called, the technical term is instrumentalism. It's kind of like small F fascism, where you, and Neil, you bring together the government

and corporations for some greater good. And this was Mussolini's idea of the, kind of perverting the Roman fascia, which was there for all the people together to be strong together. But this was outsourcing things you couldn't do here. So he was very much for a goal. The goal, the ends justify the means and the means didn't matter and he'd spread the money anywhere and he

would kind of violate statutes we might have here so he could do them elsewhere. And then as you remember, Mad Magazine, there was Spy vs. Spy. Antonio Projias from Cuba had a wonderful series, great, great books. My kids were entertained for years and I was. But this is kind of what's happening between EcoHealth Alliance and Wuhan Lab. We had EcoHealth Alliance basically as a shell carve out of the CIA to watch them, but they weren't gonna let us be there

unless we kind of had the candy, which is better technology than they had. So we are supplying a lot of these kind of instrumental jumps that these other countries might have to form bioweapons so we can watch them. So it's kind of like, you know, we are watching the watchers, they're watching us. It becomes this kind of hall of mirrors where we have to ask, you know, validly if we're performing a reasonable function by kind of like bringing the things that they might not have been able to achieve on their own.

I see this mirrored in the USAID, that we're spending money, we're doing stuff, but it is for the general good, it's to reflect our own values and whatnot. And I'm not sure that's the case with a lot of these bio defense things, we might have things in Ukraine so we can watch them. If they're gonna do something,

we might have an early warning system. But I think that the model that I think is very dangerous and interesting and analogous to this is what China did with our automotive industry. You know, a lot of people went over bright-eyed and bushy-tailed and naive to China, Ford, General Motors, and whatnot, to make car plants thinking they were going to take some big piece of the China market.

It's a huge market, billion people and so forth, and growing and whatnot. And what happened instead was they just basically, they kind of morphed their companies, they templated, they watched what we did, and they morphed, they built their own companies, they're like, sayonara, they put various regulations, tariffs up, and we couldn't sell there,

and our share of market in China has diminished. And the same thing happened basically as a model for what happened in Wuhan. They don't necessarily need us after a certain point, and they're not going to watch us and so forth. And what we wound up doing was kind of creating this byproduct, as you mentioned, possibly Lyme disease. But in this case, maybe the SARS-CoV-2. SARS-CoV-1, the original SARS, classic COKE SARS 2003 was bad enough. There are a lot of

instructive aspects to that that we didn't take heed of. We have basically taken the worst of the directives that China had and applied them here. I think Dr. Fauci, and a lot of, frankly, a lot of public health people and maybe politicians in general have some envy of what China is able to do. You know, the argument kind of I had with Nicholas Christakis was I thought he had kind of an overwhelming admiration, you know, and kind of joy at the fact that China was able to clamp down and shut down society so completely thoroughly as if to kill off the virus and make the virus not replicate. And this is kind of a fallacy. If that had worked, if that had actually worked, I would be open to the sort of the option,

but it did not work. Well, it can't work and all these people know better. Dr. Fauci himself said, you know, in one of my Fauci articles, I think it's called Dr. Fauci's DNA of Caring. That's because that's his own terminology. He's on an interview with an NPR, like, you know, I just can't help from caring too much.

It's I grew up in a pharmacy and I've got this DNA of caring. Like, well, dude, that's so awesome. You say that. And the irony, I listened to this interview, maybe a couple of years, about a year ago, and he goes on to say, where's Dr. Drew? Dr. Drew is here. Thank you, Drew. Hey, Dr. Drew here. And when you were younger, I would answer your darkest, difficult questions on Love Line.

Today, the world is even darker, but I'm here to help you make sense of the madness. Politicians and celebrities, they love pre-taped interviews because they can edit out their fumbles, spin their messages before it ever gets to you. That is why we do our show live. Join me for Ask Dr. Drew,

live streaming every week at DrDrew.tv. Listen to my latest episodes right here on Spotify. That, you know, the lesson he learned from the HIV was that he didn't listen closely enough to the people in pain. And if he, you know, would go through, you know, some pandemic again, that he would be very, you know,

careful to listen and try to react and be adaptive to what the people actually wanted. He wouldn't want to restrict their freedoms. And this is like after he just locked us down based on kind of a misapprehension of Chinese communist data coming out rather than looking at the diamond princess, which may not be perfect, but it's 3,700 people with no communist China overlap or overlay. And I think getting to that seminal point where you asked about initially about the moment,

you know, maybe it was a military kind of moment. I think it's, you know, I don't like, I'm not a conspiracy guy, but I am a conspiracy of interest guy. I think when something happens that people can flag, fly to it and make it more important than it otherwise might've been. So I don't think everyone thought,

oh, we're gonna derail Donald Trump by getting a virus and having it start in China and then having it be the one that was there 20 years before and we're going to do this and this. And I don't think anybody thinks that deeply. But when something happens, you see it over and over again, if something happens, a leak or whatever, a conversation, a conversation with, you know, with Ukraine, people try to manipulate that to their purposes. So I think what happened was that Dr. Fauci 1.0 would never have done this, but Dr. Fauci 2.0, probably because he was complicit

in the fact that the Wuhan virus was released at all, we had spent money there and in Fort Detrick, I emphasize the word Fort, that's the military term. And that's where we're doing the same kind of research we had in Fort Detrick in North Carolina, and we had it in Wuhan, China which was also essentially military, everything in China is military.

So these are military operations in a sense, one form or another, part of this bio defense aspect, that's what it grew out of, that's where his interest grew. And the whole gain of function thing is basically a game of chicken to see how far you can get to the edge and come back and get information without falling over. And Dr. Fauci himself, I can't find this clip

unless I imagined it, but at some point a few years ago, he said that he's invested in gain of function, all this kind of stuff. And if some great pandemic happened, whatever, it'd still be worth it because he will have come up with cures ultimately. I think this is where he sees it. He might ultimately be right.

It makes sense that he would be thinking that way. It makes perfect sense, right? I mean, that's what he was doing. And God knows, M1RN might what he was doing. That's the game. And God knows, MMRN might very well be a great invention down the line. It just shouldn't have been put out

that prematurely. We had the other types of vaccines kind of old-style- Let me just- Or mandated. I would just say, yeah, it shouldn't have been mandated. That was really where they went off

the rail, and that it continues to be pushed. The one vaccine that produces excessive spike protein, the actual pathogenic component of the virus is mind blowing to me. Why they're not going back to the drawing board and

getting a nucleocapsid mRNA vaccine if they want. Or let's get a whole virus. Let's get a whole virus. So let's get a DNA, let's do one of the old platforms. Or let people get- But to be pushing something

that produces uncontrolled amounts of the actual, the thing that hurts us, not in, if it were tiny amounts, that'd be one thing. But in some cases, clearly massive amounts, that is mind blowing. Nobody's pushing back on that. There should be lawsuits on that.

There's two things I would add to this, that after classic Coke, SARS-1 in 2003, the Chinese worked devilishly hard at making a vaccine to it. They were unable to succeed, not because the science was that hard, but because there were problems with it. There were secondary problems.

It was antibody dependent enhancement, and they had this ferret population, you know, little mink like animals and whatnot. They got sick, whatnot. There were secondary issues with making this type of respiratory virus, excuse me, vaccine against the coronavirus. Probably because coronavirus,

other coronaviruses are so prevalent. There's a second most commonly named cause of the common cold. And there's a lot of coronavirus out there. So we probably have a lot of previous exposure, but you make two excellent points. One would be, for me, would be to let people who aren't desperately ill get sick with this

because it wasn't that bad for kids and young adults. They barely even had symptoms. That was the main information with the diamond princess which was not controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. It had docked in Hong Kong, but was out in the ocean and people could watch this all they wanted to and see that nobody was getting sick. Even by March 15th or whatever, 13th, 2020,

there had been maybe only one or two, a couple deaths, median age 82 and none of them in the acute phase, none after two or three weeks, four weeks after the landfall, January 25th in China. So we had lots of evidence that old people were the only ones really to get problems from this, A, and B, young people were having, kids had like zero symptoms at all.

There were like three or 400 kids on that boat and none of them even knew they had the problem. They were tested later, they showed antibody positive and whatnot. So this was kind of all a malfeasance. And Dr. Fauci knew better than this. He actually spoke about the fact that natural immunity is the strongest immunity.

Back in 2005 or six, there's a C-span thing, and I'll do my Dr. Fauci again. He was asked, should I get the flu shot after I've had that year's flu? Should I get this year's flu shot after that year's flu? And he said, there's no reason to get that because once you've had the illness, you've had the full exposure to the whole entire variant. And there's no reason to get a vaccine after the fact. Good, really good.

And mind you, it wouldn't even be as complete as the original. And then he violated all that by trotting out the same vaccine over and over again. It has to be pretty far-fetched to the gun. I love, we got to do a whole episode with you as Anthony Fauci. So good. Hey, I have a quick question. I don't mean to interject, but it just popped in my mind.

Does China vaccinate their two month old infants like we do here? They have mandated vaccine schedules. Or offer it up, like do they, when a baby comes out of the womb, which they do here, do they ask the mother if they want a COVID vaccine or make them have one? Like a Pfizer or- I don't know the answer to that. Well, they don't use those vaccines in China.

I know that a lot of countries are taking off the coronavirus vaccine, the COVID vaccine for kids. There's no reason for kids to have it, ever, zero. You can argue one vaccine or another. We're offering it to our grandchild every day, it's like, and-

I just don't see it. Let's wrap up with this. Did you have anything to say about the SodaGate before I let you go? The fact that these, go ahead. Yeah, no, I think money's fungible. I think you're giving money for

goods, and if people want to be clever about it, they can go buy an extra can of, can buy an extra slice of turkey and trade it for their cigarettes if they want to. I think people are clever enough to do that kind of stuff.

I don't think there's any reason to be, I think as a matter of messaging, there's no reason for people to have those type of things on their Snap cards or WIC or whatever you want to call it. It should be directed. But obviously can they do whatever they want? Yeah, people trade this stuff all the time. But people are very clever.

Well, I think you can just, forget trade it, just go buy it. Just go buy the soda if that's what they want. But I just don't think we should be supporting cigarettes and unhealthy. I liked what Tom was saying that we should have really, I mean, we should only be doing business with people that enhance the health of the country with the SNAP program, with any program.

Well, I find that tricky because you know, you can grade health a lot of different ways. I'm not as interested in mandating a lot of these food choices and whatnot. I think people in the kind of greater debate out in the world, people make their own choices. The fact that we have so many different diets over different periods of time, it goes from one thing to another,

from all vegetables to all meats. I mean, I think that points out that we don't have the answer as far as that goes. And a lot of this comes down to a matter of taste. Some days, even if I were like kind of a quasi vegetarian, I might still want to barbecue now and then. I think people should be allowed their reasonable choices and live their lives to a great extent. I mean, if you're having something that's hugely-

If I were subsidizing, if I were handing you money to purchase your groceries, I would ask you, hey man, I'm not going to feel good about it if you buy cigarettes and vodka. Absolutely, I think you have a great point. And prudence. I want you to buy things that I want to fund, that I want to enhance your health. Absolutely, no, I think you're making a very reasonable point. That's why we have a lot of these kind of like health directives and taxes.

We do have a nannyistic, you know, tendency, all of us, you know, we want people to do the right thing. So we incentivize and disincentivize lots of things. There's cigarettes, you know, I think it's like in Massachusetts, like three or four dollars goes, you know, just to the state when you buy a pack of cigarettes. I don't buy any packs of cigarettes. I assume, you know, like a lot of it goes when you buy a lottery ticket, you know, 70% goes right to the state when you buy a pack of cigarettes. I don't buy any packs of cigarettes. I assume, you know, like a lot of it goes

when you buy a lottery ticket. You know, 70% goes right to the state for a lottery ticket. I don't buy any. But people that wanna buy it, they wanna have that thrill. I don't really care. They wanna play lottery. You know, it's kind of a tax on the, you know, enumerate, if you will, but fine, have at it.

But a lot of these, you know, food choices, I think they'll play out ad hoc. You know, people will kind of, you will, but fine, have at it. But a lot of these food choices, I think they'll play out ad hoc. People will kind of, I think there's a time when people are gonna wanna have a Coca-Cola, whatever. I don't really mind that they do that. And I don't really wanna have a tax cut. I'm just saying how it should be funded, funded. But, Randy, I've gotta wrap this up.

It is Dr. Randall Bach on X and it is, what's your website? Hold on here. There it is. Just Randy Bach, just like the name, randybach.com. Okay, randybach.com is the website, the book, check out the book. What is this? In China, there are no explicit laws mandating childhood vaccines for public school. The National Museum Program provides free vaccines and some local areas may require vaccination proof for school attendance.

So it's similar to us, the vaccination proof thing, but they have no vaccine policy, which is interesting. What, Caleb? Yeah, that's what I was saying is that it actually isn't- Is it the HEPC? It actually isn't similar to ours if they don't require it because so many of the schools out here, almost every school requires a whole vaccination program,

but apparently in China, there are no national laws mandating it. Wow. Yes. No national law, but they said lots of local areas do. No. Yeah, exactly. And what I had said was the hepatitis B vaccine was originally

designed because of concerns for maternal fetal transmission in China. And now it's mandated by the World Health Organization here, where there are 600 hepatitis B mothers per year that we know well. And of course,

those kids would get the vaccine. But why mandating it for everybody? And certainly, like you and I, Randy, when the vaccine came on board, we're healthcare providers, we took the vaccine because it was appropriate that, why give it to a one day old? I don't get it. Maybe I'm missing something.

Well, I think what you're missing is the fact that WHO is funded by pharmaceutical companies. And I think this is a circle. It's kind of like the lion king. And I'm not sure if it's a virtuous circle or vicious circle, but a lot of the funding comes from that. Once you get your, it's kind of like if you watch the golf leaderboard,

once you get your preparation up on the WHO mandated list, you're like, you know, you got a sinecure, you got kind of a money flow forever, and that's that. And that's kind of the point of, you know, the Zika book is to forestall that because they're working on a Zika vaccine right now, frankly, in Baltimore, the Bloomberg School of Public Health,

Johns Hopkins, Dr. Anna Durbin, I don't know if she's finished up yet, for a couple of years now, she's been injecting and infecting women in Baltimore with Zika so they can work on a Zika vaccine. And there's no real reason, there's no clamor for it, but I think the concept is, whether you're Takeda, Pfizer, Moderna, whatever,

you come up with this, then you get it up on the leaderboard, WHO mandates it, says, oh, everyone, this is a big thing, Zika microcephaly, it's a big problem, nobody's disproven except for me and I think I have, but, and so then once it's there, it's a billion dollar proposition forever. And there's gonna be no way of disproving the fact

that it works because, you know, my father used to say he was the tiger catcher for the Bronx. We would think he'd be at the bus station, you know, and what do you do, Mr. Bikes? He's an attorney, you know, so he didn't want to tell anyone that. So he said, I'm the tiger cat. Well, there are no tigers in the Bronx. Like, well, see what a great job I'm doing.

You know, that was just kind of the standard joke. But, but the Zika, once, once a Zika vaccine is there, then they're going to announce it's gone. But the thing is it's been gone for the last decade, but they're still working on it. The fact that, you know, that if they use the null hypothesis, that famous Dr. Drupinski null hypothesis, then they would realize that there's no there there,

as Gertrude Stein, the famous non-physician said. That's right. You apply the instrument, you use the scientific method. Brandy, we've got to wrap this up. Susan, did you have a question or you over there wanted to ask something? I want him to do voiceover for Fauci. We need to do a cartoon and he gets to be Fauci voice.

Oh, I'd love that. He can do a good Bernie Sanders too. I was hearing Bernie Sanders. I'll work on my Sanders, but Dr. Fauci, I mean, I have some affinity for him. I grew up in the Bronx, he was in Brooklyn. He's a smart guy. But, and again, I think there's Fauci 1.0

who's well-meaning and Fauci's 2.0 had this CYA and CIA moment. Cover your ass and the CIA together where he was complicit in a lot of the stuff that happened in Wuhan. And in order to kind of make it- He was such a great leader during, okay, I was deep in the AIDS pandemic.

I imagine you were too in your training. We all came to the residence back in those days and the fellows. And he was a wonderful source of leadership and information. I was there when the AZT was opened up. Yes, it was not a great drug, but it was something.

We were moving forward and we could keep these guys alive for three months instead of zero. And it was in terms of listening to the suffering, my God was there suffering back then. It was like an unbelievable time. And no one's around to tell

the story except the caretakers because all the patients, all the patients died. It was a terrible, terrible time. And they were waiting for vaccine to be over. Yeah, I know. There was some talk of it, but we were mostly thinking about therapeutics at the time, as I recall. But I appreciate you being here. We will look for you again soon to help us make sense of these complicated processes. We'll look for your writings at Brownstone.

You should definitely go to Brownstone Institute to get the writings. In fact, I don't think I've been getting the emails lately. So I'm going to make sure I'm going to get all the Brownstone emails and I will see you again soon, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for everything you do, Dr. Drew. Thank you, sir. All right. So coming up, our schedule's a little wonky.

We need an agent. We may have to go do something. We're not sure how this is going to work. We may- In the MIA in the next couple days. And we may be doing a stream- We might be here. We don't know. We don't know. And we might be doing a stream from a distant location as well. That's another possibility.

We have a new time, which is 2 p.m. to 3 p.m. 330. Everybody, thank you. Pacific, if everybody's here, just coincidentally, or they knew that in advance, thanks for joining us. Yeah. We're trying this time slot so that we're not in direct competition with a lot of our people that we have on the show. So I thought that we give it a shot and see if it helped. So tell a friend.

Yep. We appreciate it. We appreciate you guys. I'm watching all the streams and everything. Support the sponsors who support us. Go to drdrew.com slash sponsors and get, you know, stock up, get your links and your medicines and your supplements. Yep. All right, everyone. Thank you so much for being here. Hopefully we'll be here at 2 Pacific tomorrow. We're not sure. And then if not Thursday, probably if not here from a remote location. So tomorrow's up in the air, but we'll put out a blast if we're going ahead tomorrow at two o'clock. Hopefully see you then. Check our Twitter. Yeah.

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