Ask Dr. Drew - Strangest Deaths, Diseases & Dissections: Human Dissector Nicole Angemi Investigates – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 296

Episode Date: December 13, 2023

Nicole Angemi – wife, mother, and human dissector – discusses diseases, death, and pathology from today’s headlines, alongside her daughter (and co-host) Maria Q. Kane. [WATCH THIS EPISODE] Nicole Angemi, MS, PA (ASCP), is the author of “Nicole Angemi’s Anatomy Book: A Catalog of Familiar, Rare, and Unusual Pathologies” and co-hosts the “Mother Knows Death” podcast with her daughter Maria Q. Kane at https://theduramater.com/podcast/ Born and raised near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Nicole Angemi rose to fame working as a pathologists’ assistant. She embraced the Latin phrase “mortui vivos docent,” which means “the dead teach the living,” and began to post about her daily life on the job. After amassing over 1.5 million followers at https://instagram.com/mrs_angemi, she now works full time sharing her insights into pathology and running her website https://TheGrossRoom.com Order Angemi’s book at Amazon.com Follow Nicole Angemi at https://instagram.com/mrs_angemi/ 「 SPONSORED BY 」 Find out more about the companies that make this show possible and get special discounts on amazing products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew • COZY EARTH - Trying to think of the right present for someone special? Susan and Drew love Cozy Earth's sheets & clothing made with super-soft viscose from bamboo! Use code DREW to save up to 40% at https://drdrew.com/cozy • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician with over 35 years of national radio, NYT bestselling books, and countless TV shows bearing his name. He's known for Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Teen Mom OG (MTV), Dr. Drew After Dark (YMH), The Masked Singer (FOX), multiple hit podcasts, and the iconic Loveline radio show. Dr. Drew Pinsky received his undergraduate degree from Amherst College and his M.D. from the University of Southern California, School of Medicine. Read more at https://drdrew.com/about Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And today we'll have a little change of topic. And I'm again here at the VShred Studios in Las Vegas. Appreciate them housing us and hosting us. Nicole Angemi is with me today. She is a medical tech, pathology tech. Her podcast with her daughter Maria is Mother Knows Death. It comes out twice a week. It, of course, features Nicole and her daughter Maria is Mother Knows Death. It comes out twice a week. It, of course, features Nicole and her daughter. And Nicole is someone who I've been a fan of for many years.

You can follow her on Instagram at Mrs. Underscore and Jemmy. It's one of the most popular Instagram sites out there. Routinely canceled by Instagram, though they've been not doing that so much lately. And then she restarts them. And of course, they become incredibly popular she's committed to medical education uh i share lots of her um there's her new book which nicole and jimmy's anatomy book very interesting book and uh we'll talk to nicole we'll do a little mystery diagnoses and we'll do a little what is it wednesday we'll tell you all about their podcast right after this our laws as it pertains to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopath started this.

He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying,

you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it. I can help.

I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. I think everyone knows the next medical crisis could be just around the corner, whether it comes in the form of another pandemic or something much more routine, like a tick bite. You and your family need to be prepared. That's where the wellness company comes in. You know the wellness company. We have their physicians on like Dr. McCullough frequently. The wellness company and their doctors are medical professionals you can trust. And their new medical emergency kits are the gold standard when it comes to keeping you safe and healthy. It's really, it's a safety net.

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family stay safe from whatever life throws at you next. Go to drdrew.com slash TWC that is D-R-D-R-E-W dot com forward slash TWC to get 10% off today. Just click on that link. And a reminder

of our upcoming schedule, we've got Ed Dowd coming in here tomorrow with Kelly Victory, who is back in our home studio at that point. Salty Cracker in on Tuesday. Senator Rand Paul on Wednesday. And Mary Bowden, Mary Talley Bowden. Possibly Rob Schneider on Thursday. It's not up there on the board yet.

And then, yeah, Rosanne just booked for January 10th. So she'll be submitting stuff coming up. Today is no exception. As I said, Nicole and Jimmy's new anatomy book. I do suggest you get that if you possibly can. It's a lot of fun. And you can follow Nicole. Let's throw that up there, Caleb, if you don't mind her book again.

Her Instagram handles are at Mrs. Underscore and Jimmy, A-N-G-E-M-I. You can also follow the new podcast at mother knows death there you go and maria her daughter who's pictured there at maria q cane uh you can listen of course spotify or watch it on nicole's youtube channel youtube.com slash mrs and jimmy m-r-s-a-n-g-e-m-i and i was sort of laughing to myself. I'll bring Nicole up here. Caleb describes Nicole as wife, mother, and professional human dissector. Nicole, welcome back.

Good to see you. Hi, Dr. Drew. Thanks for having me. So I'm Maria. I'm so glad you guys are doing this together. When I first saw it, I was like, wait. Because you guys, you're very good, of course, about pushing it on social media. And that's where I first saw evidence of the pod underway. And I was like, wait a minute,

is Maria doing that with her? Lo and behold, there you are. How'd you guys decide to do this? Well, we always sit around and have these conversations about things that are going on the news that pertain to pathology. And then we just thought, hey, people might find this entertaining. Maybe we should do this because there's just so many topics we want to talk about all the time because things happen every day. And Maria, I know your mom's passionate about this. I didn't know you were into it. So the irony behind it all is medical things really skeeved me out, but I'm really interested. That's what I thought. That's what I thought. I was going to say, she's not into it.

No, I'm not into it, but true crime really fascinates me, the pop culture element. That's where I kind of come in. Okay. All right. It's all the, what's the HLN show that replaced me? The Forensic Files. It's all the Forensic Files you're into. Yes?

Yeah, exactly. She's like a dateline girl and she's on top of all the latest news stories with the celebrities and everything. So I think it's a good mix of what I'm into and what she's into. And Nicole, I know people can go back and watch our earlier interviews together,

but give them a quick sketch on how you got into pathology and where your dedication and passion around medical education comes or where it came from. Okay. Well, first I'll start with my life because that's the big reason that Maria is important here right now is that I got pregnant when I was a teenager. I was 14 when I got pregnant and I was 15 when I had her. And yeah, there was a picture of us in the nineties with my brown lip liner. Anyway. Um, I, so this was back in the day when I was, I couldn't have health insurance because I was on my parents' insurance

and I was getting ready to get kicked off. And my mom and dad were like, you need to go get a job and do something with your life because you have this baby and everything. So I thought, okay, I'm going to go to college and I'll be a nurse because I thought I could go to school for two years and get a job as a nurse and get insurance. And when I started college, I fell in love with the microscope on the first day. And then I was like, I really don't want to be a nurse. I don't have that instinct at all to want to take care of people like that. But I was really interested in science. So then I got a job as a cytotechnologist, which was in the pathology laboratory, looking at cells under the microscope for pap smears and things like that. And one day I was working and I was sitting at my cubicle and there was this big commotion in the hallway and everybody was saying that it smelled really bad.

And I went out into the hallway to see what was going on. And then I ended up walking over to the pathology department, which was like right next to where my cubicle was. And they said, they said, Oh, the leg refrigerator is leaking. That's what the smell is. It's it's decomposing legs. And I just was like, what? Like, I was like so mind blown. Like, wait a second.

There's a refrigerator that has legs over here. Like, what is going on over here? And then I found this whole world of pathology. Yeah. And it was like one you would see in a pizza shop that has like the soda and stuff in it. And it just had amputated legs stacked up in it which were they're they have gangrene so that's why there would be legs in a refrigerator at a hospital but um yeah i was kind of mind blown i didn't know

anything about what was going on like right on the other wall um so and then i found this whole other world of just organs on cutting boards and that was the gross room and I instantly fell in love and I ended up going back to college to become a PA and that's how I got into this and and your but your dedication what I'm one of the things I've admired is your dedication to medical education you have this same instinct that I have which is people should know this stuff why is this shrouded in secrecy? Why was the leg refrigerator hidden in this room that I didn't know about, even though it was my neighbor? And then you sort of just started educating people, right?

Yeah, well, when I was working in the hospital and I was doing autopsies, we would have this thing called the gross conference every week, which is we would present organs from surgical pathology and autopsy and have the doctors that were actually taking care of those patients come downstairs and like, look at them to see how this patient died. And it was really an awesome thing. But all we had were medical students, residents, some nurses. And I want, I was like, no, like more people need to know about this so I started going home at night and writing about it on a like a blog and nobody saw it of course because that was nobody looks at blogs like that and then my husband was like why don't you start doing it on Instagram and at the time Maria who's my daughter that I had when I was a teenager

um she was 18 and it was awesome having like a millennial in the house to show me what Instagram was because I didn't even know how to use it and it kind of fell into place like that it I mean she you very quickly had a couple million followers how many times you've been canceled on Instagram oh at least three or four times my account's been completely deleted and now they don't delete it. They just like completely shadow ban me. So it's still there hanging around. But I was even telling Caleb that, but that when I was trying to post, I was coming on here, I had to post it four different times and try to write different things because they block my stuff so much. Wow. And Maria, what's

preoccupying you these days? What kinds of stories do you find interesting? I really love the case of Amy Carlson. We just saw what the love has one documentary. We wrote about it recently and shockingly, I had no idea that the documentary was coming out. So when I watched it, I was even more mind blown by that. So I'm really interested in the cults right now. I definitely have to get into the twin flames documentary as well. I don't know these things. What would it give us a little sketch?

So the case of Amy Carlson, she was this woman that started this cult. They kind of believed in all these new age beliefs and she had been, what was it called the silver colloidal pill she was taking oh yeah colloidal silver yeah yeah is that the one with robin williams connection yes she was obsessed with robin williams but she started turning blue and she had died and then her body had mummified and the people in her cult were decorating her body with Christmas lights and glitter.

It was a very interesting scene. And what was the premise of the cult? Why were they all together as one? She believed that she was Mother God, so that's what she went by was Mother God and then they were kind of her followers and she claimed to have lived a life as cleopatra marilyn monroe and even donald trump's daughter so she was a very interesting person there was some q anon theories they believed in as well

it was all over the place i've never seen a whole quite like it it is is interesting. I had a patient once, I'm not going to use his real name, but he just declared himself a God and he has a new religion. I'll just use Caleb's name for the sake of description. Sure, it wasn't Caleb at all. I'm sure it's not. I had a friend some one time and he called it Calebism. Calebism. He just declared the new religion Calebism, and it was in his garage, and he got followers. That's a crazy thing that people will come along with this nonsense. I told you that in private, Drew.

The fact that people go nutty. Drew, isn't it really crazy what we've seen over the past couple years? Is it really crazy that people do that? Well, Nicole, that's where I wanted to go next, actually. You and I have mind meld on a lot of topics. And one of them is medical education. We both have this instinct that it shouldn't be shrouded in any kind of secrecy. And people should should

get used to you know what happens to our bodies and what you know we should just all have that oh here he is oh it was a it was a male it's a different different different case different guy just showing what happens if you take too much collodial silver for too long and colloid just means suspended in fluid it's it's a it's a certain uh size particle suspended in fluid and gold and silver make excellent colloids uh it's just a kind of fluid suspension nothing special about the word colloid but it's a way of taking silver and classically when you take it you get slate blue skin that's's sort of the classic thing that they get. And yeah, good times, everybody. And so, yes.

You should see her dead, mummified body. I can't. Are you going to show it to us? It's extra creepy looking. I don't have the picture of it right now. What are you doing, Kayla? What is it? You're already warning people they can't. You're not showing are you just in case well we will soon there's there's

some stuff coming up soon just to warn them and keep youtube off our backs but yeah she was mummified when she was dead but then she was taking this colloidal silver too and she's just very weird looking as it even as a dead mummified person. Nice, lovely. But back to our instincts about medical education. I started doing radio back during HIV, and I was like, why aren't people talking to young people about this? And at the time, everything about sexuality

and sexually transmitted diseases was shrouded in secrecy and Latin. Even a vaginal yeast infection was called manilia, maniliasis. You know, these crazy weird terms, you know, and STIs were called venereal diseases. They were just all shrouded. We don't, you know, it's over here. And all, in our opinion, and your mom's, in my opinion, Maria, this should all be just out in the open and discussed like mathematics or any other educational material.

But I hope I'm not speaking on your behalf, Nicole, if that's in fact the case. No, it's absolutely true. I definitely feel that way too. And there was this period of time when I started Instagram maybe 10 years ago that I was like, okay, cool. We finally could start talking about this stuff. And it has been completely squished in the past couple of years. So we're back to, we're back to that again, in some kind of a way it's just complete censorship. So now, so now on Instagram,

I would say, I can't talk about anything that has to do with suicide. I can't talk about anything that has to do with homicide. And I can't, that has to do with homicide and i can't i don't know apparently the other night i posted a picture of a of a panther that that bit someone and i couldn't they warned me about even posting that um i can't show breast pathology because i can't show nipples i can't show vaginal or anal pathology so like what's left i guess i'll just like start taking off my shirt and show my boobs because apparently that's still cool on instagram like seriously for real like that's it it's just like it's out of control oh my god well uh here here's not only does nicole not pull her punches i like that when she gets angry. I feel it. I'm with you.

And by the way, I don't know if you're able to see what I see, but the lower third here, Caleb, has been putting up some of our restream activity. And people are already out there joining Calebism. They're already into it. See, it's very easy

to get followers. Indeed it is. He already has hundreds of followers like look at that that's so funny i wish i could tell you the guy's real name because it was even funnier the guy's real name it was just like this was his new religion but so nicole this leads to my next topic which is uh what the f happened to our peers what Our peers in the medical world during COVID. I mean, I would call you once in a while just because we had the same feelings about this. Let's talk about it a little bit publicly. What happened to our peers?

Did they just become cowards? Were they frightened? Did they lose their judgment? Or was it the fact that people aren't properly trained in infectious diseases anymore? What happened? Well, I think a lot of people in general, and this is not even just medicine, but people just don't, they don't think for themselves and they go along with the group, you know, just because it's the path of least resistance. And I've never done that my whole life. I've always resisted almost everything.

You could talk to my mom about that if you want. I can talk to Maria about it. if you want but um yeah i can talk to maria about it i'm sure she's got notes um another thing is that that i i just think that i kind of i think that people i i understand it to a certain extent because people are scared they don't want to lose their job they don't want to lose their friends their family and they just they kind of just try to stay under the radar i mean honestly i'm kind of guilty of doing that a little bit too i just like to stay low key with it because i because i'm scared of what i've been seeing happens to people that that speak out about what they think about things so yeah and and like you you say all the time that most physicians especially

work and and it's the same with nurses or any medical professionals they work for hospital systems and and you have to you have to watch it and especially on my level of like income of what we make at the hospital it's like you can't you're living paycheck to paycheck you can't afford to lose your job because you're speaking out your mind like that. You know, do you get any trouble at the hospital for the Instagram or the podcast? When I was working at the hospital full time, I would get taken. I several times because that was in the heat of it when I was getting articles like by the Daily Mail written about me and all this crazy stuff. And but they knew what I was doing.

They knew exactly what I was doing. And they would just say, you know, don't talk about real cases that happen here. Don't do this. Don't, they told me what to do and they were fine. But I mean, you know, the crazies come out and the haters come out. So I would have people like, I would post a picture from a vintage pathology book from like the seventies of a fetus right and then some woman would call the hospital and say that was my daughter's miscarried baby and

she's inappropriate it was just so ridiculous and then i would just be like yo this is the book i got it from here's the picture right here whatever so um you know everybody's always trying to get you in trouble because they're haters or whatever but But for the most part, I haven't had any trouble with it. I don't want to, I hate the idea that you have to be a chronic resisting or someone who resists the trans to be somebody who merely speaks the truth and is free to give their opinion. You know, the kind of, I mean, Maria, let me go to you on this, maybe, which is you said you have lots of notes on your mom's tendency to fight the trans. She's a rule follower. Okay, good, good.

Shocking. But good. So how do you interpret, say, here's you, me and your mom, we feel like we have an obligation to speak out when we see things that are excessive or that the truth is being obfuscated. We have that obligation and other people don't seem to see I struggle with it being a rule follower because I'm always one that's hesitant to express my opinion because I'm scared of the results of it, a.k.a. cancel culture, especially with my generation. So it is almost refreshing to see people be outspoken about their true beliefs. And a couple one example that comes to mind, for example, is what happened with Danny Masterson and getting the letters of support. So his friends write letters of support and then they get such criticism for it and then they go back on it. And I'm like, well, if you really stood behind him, you should stand by your belief in what you did, not go back on it because you're getting public scrutiny. So I think it's a bigger question of people actually standing for something instead

of succumbing to public opinion that's my biggest thing like i am i always tell her as her mom do not apologize if you aren't sorry don't do it just because you're feeling pressure and yeah that that's like one case that we talk about all the time because i i'm like if you guys really felt like you were supporting your friend then stand up and stop down because they're trying to cancel you. Less respect for Mila Kunis and Ashton Kutcher having gone back on their word when you didn't have to speak about it at all. Nobody really wants to hear what you have to say about certain subjects anyway. So I don't know. And by the way i i think their original letter of support on his behalf was very sort of narrow and appropriate it's like hey we've experienced

this guy a certain way we're his friend and we're just here to tell you this is how we've experienced him there's nothing wrong with that that's their truth fine uh how dare you becomes my god that how dare you was things that like women with cigarette holders used to say in the 40s you know and now it's everybody in their 20s how dare you it's just the weirdest time and and then during covid the the panic that's it and so so i guess the next topic would be this white lung thing so without me showing showing my hand, Nicole, how did you respond when the press first started reporting the white lung in China? It's the same with monkeypox and everything. Like, it's just, this is going to be what happens for now on.

But I think every time it happens, more people are just like, yeah, no, that that's not happening again. I'm not falling for that again. I'm not good. I personally think that because I just feel like it's less and less and less. And hopefully in 25 years, we'll get we'll get back to like where we were prior to this. I don't know. But I don't know. I just I just think it's like the next thing.

And actually, like my kid just had that one one of my kids was out of school for two weeks with walking pneumonia right it and guess what like i had it when i was a kid and she had it when she was a kid and like humans get sick and they're in a school with a bunch of kids that are coughing all over each other and like let's let's move on and go to school the next day humans get sick this is the part that people seem in massive denial about i i look i first thing i when i saw this white lung thing like and i was yelling about this yesterday i'm going to yell about it again today white shadows on the lung x-ray is how we diagnose any pneumonia at all times, whether it's a low-bar pneumonia or a consolidation

or a fluffy pattern, it's always a white shadow. And it can be diffused, it can be alveolar filling, it can be a lot of different patterns, but it's a white shadow. Lung white on a chest X-ray equals pneumonia. Sorry, guys, they're just describing pneumonia. Why the effing press thinks they've got onto something now? White lung, white lung.

Just shut up. Shut up about it. Enough already. This is how I got myself in trouble during COVID, telling the press to shut up, by the way. No, it's true. And another really messed up thought I had was like, oh, now they're going to put... Because I feel like the other one was like, the old people, the old people. And like, it's, it's not really sticking anymore, you know? So now it's like, but if, if it's the children that are sick now, it's like the children are

sick, you know, everyone wants to protect kids. And like, listen, I'm a mom that has three kids, two of them that are little, you know, I don't, I don't want my kids to die. I don't want anybody to die, but guess what? Like people die every every day i i've seen people die every day since way before covid and i think when you're when you're a doctor like yourself or like you work in pathology and you just see lots of bodies in the refrigerator every single day you just this is this is no big deal to you because you just know that people die from all sorts of things all the time. I don't know if you saw Deborah Birx recently, but she was on Dr. Kelly Victory on a news broadcast on Saturday, and she was singing an entirely different tune that was really interesting.

First of all, she had a smile that was bizarre, and she would not leave her face. I found that bizarre. But secondly, she kept talking about, she kept saying, they were talking about this white lung thing. She goes, look, it's mostly mycoplasma. That's a common infection. It comes around. And by the way, I just finished my board review for pulmonary and they make a huge point

that community acquired pneumonias should not be hospitalized. So they don't result in hospitalization in the adult population. I don't know for peas. I assume they don't. Why didn't she even have a fever? She didn't have a fever for two weeks. Yes, exactly. So it's RSV, it's influenza, it's mycoplasma, mostly mycoplasma, responds completely to Zithromax, except when it's resistance, in which case it responds to the quinolones.

No problem, everybody. But Deborah Birx pointed this out. She said, you know, we have really good treatments for the causes of pneumonia right now, which are mycoplasma, RSV, influenza, and COVID, she said. Really good treatments for COVID. And I, yeah, you had the same reaction I had, which is, oh, finally, we're going to talk about treatment and get off the vaccine train for a second and talk about the fact that we have moldupiravir, we have Paxlovid, we have treatments, we have budesonide we have fluvox we have all kinds of things we can use and now we're allowed to talk about it odd is it not i lost respect for her with the whole thanksgiving thing and her telling people not to see their family and then she was like somewhere with her family or whatever i just was like i lost all respect listening maria do you have any feeling about all this?

Because you're a young person watching all this. Your life was affected more even than ours, I would imagine. How do you think about all that time? I'm really lucky that I have a parent that's a medical professional because I could kind of consult and say, what's the legitimate fear I need to have? What do I need to be doing? I definitely fell into the peer pressure at first, especially in the fear mongering a little bit, living in the city and being scared

of being so around people. But now that I've had somebody to consult, I kind of, I watch every news outlet. I think it's important to really watch how both sides are handling it and make an educated decision yourself and do all the research yourself, not just kind of play into what everybody else your age is doing. Did this change your feeling about the government or public health or doctors generally? Did it change? Yeah, you're saying yes.

I had a big wake up call i i watched the documentary about the oxycontin crisis and that was kind of my first really worrisome experience so then when covid kind of broke out i was seeing a lot of the same patterns repeated and i went into it a little more hesitant because I had watched that and it really opened my eyes so I was thankful I had seen that and had kind of the wherewithal to do the own my own research and make my own decision based off of what I was seeing and what I was reading yeah my most sincere hope is that the the patients meaning you, feel empowered to take control of your healthcare, A. B, that you are very skeptical of government now and angry. You should be furious at public

health. I hope your peers sort of go into their lives angry at what was done to them and very concerned about governments that are trying to help you. They don't help. These gigantic bureaucracies, centralized authority, and particularly authorities that grab onto ideologies, only harm people. Definitely. It's so nuts.

You know, back in like 2000 and, I don't know what year it was, 10, 9 maybe, I don't even remember, when H1N1 was a thing, I did the first autopsy of the person that died in Pennsylvania with it. 26-year-old girl. I don't know what year it was, 10, 9 maybe. I don't even remember when H1N1 was a thing. I did the first autopsy of the person that died in Pennsylvania with it. 26-year-old girl.

It was the same age around that I was when I did the autopsy. No one even said anything to me about doing the autopsy on this person. It wasn't even a deal. Yeah, Nicole, that was what – How do we go from that to this? This is what I – and people can't quite get their head around this. So what Nicole's talking about is we had a pandemic 10 years before COVID. It was the H1N1 pandemic. I had H1N1. It was brutal. And it killed young people, 300,000 young people. And you didn't even know, you meaning everybody out there, didn't even know it happened. Because the Obama administration wisely did not make a big stink about it. They just did what public health does. Then suddenly, fast forward 10 years, we have something that's worse. It's worse, let's be fair. But all of a sudden, we go from you don't know about it

to your life course has to be changed forever. It's like, what? How do we go from zero to 1,000 with nothing in between? That's what I kept yelling about at the time. And having had bad COVID, alpha-delta COVID, and the H1N1, I'm here to tell you, H1N1 was worse. I was really toxic from that. Nicole, any comment?

It's nuts. Yeah, I mean, I just, I feel the same. I feel the same exact way. It's just hard for me to, it's hard for me to say, like, I'm telling you, like, I'm 26, the same age as this girl was. And I'm, like, cutting open her body. I don't remember what year it was I feel like I was doing autopsies back then like I think it was back in 2009 or something eight maybe but um yeah I was around the same age as this girl and I'm like looking at her lungs destroyed on autopsy you

know and I'm just like what I don't know i just the the mentality even i had back then is just so much different than than what i have now just what do you mean what do you mean oh you mean you didn't worry about it the h1n1 i just i didn't i didn't worry about it i mean i've been i've i do hiv autopsies all the time I do HIV autopsies all the time. Hepatitis C autopsies all the time. That's right. CJD, which I do worry about a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? But that one, cause that one's like, you, I don't know, that one's just like on another level. So, so, so hold on. So she's, she's talking about prion diseases. We, we, it's, it's called Creutzfeldt-Jakob.

We call it Jakob-Creutzfeldt disease. And that one did freak me out. That one always freaked me out too. So you and I, our brains work exactly alike. Yeah. So Jakob-Creutzfeldt-Jakob. You know why it freaks me out? Because the prion diseases, it's like they don't know as much.

We don't know. That's right. We don't know how it's transmitted really uh they used to get it in the in the south pacific somewhere from eating brains that's how they thought it was transmitted back in the day they still don't know they called it kuru back then and then uh then mad cow right and then didn't we call it mad cow for a minute also and when it broke out in england and uh and we don't know how it's transmitted. And it's awful. It's a terrible illness. God, it's a bad one.

Spongiform degeneration, right? And then you could get, yeah, you could get the transmissible kind or it could just like spontaneously happen. We think, we think, we think. We don't even know. I mean, it's a whole thing about, prions are these replicating proteins.

They're non-DNA that we don't think. There might be some component that has something like a nucleic acid, but it's essentially just a protein, and proteins can get around, and they are scary. Maria's laughing at us. So, okay, here's what I want to do.

I want to take a little break, and I want to come back, and we're going to sort of recreate your guys' podcast a little bit. We're going to look at some mystery diagnoses. Maria's like, yeah, we're going to skeeve you out, Maria. We're going to look at some, yeah, and warnings to everybody of your discretion. We're going to do some, what is it, Wednesday? Is that the other, yes, what is it Wednesday?

Yeah, that's the other game. All right, we'll come back with all that after this. If you're trying to figure out the right present for someone, you will not go wrong with gifting the most comfortable sheets, clothing, and accessories that your friends and family have ever felt. Of course, I'm talking about Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth has the softest and most comfortable sheets, blankets, towels, PJs, joggers, and more guaranteed.

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And again, we are in Las Vegas today at the, whoops, V Shred Studios. I'll get those right. Let me see. There they are. I appreciate those guys for hosting us. We've been helping them out all day here. And we'll be back in our home. What's that?

Oh, sorry. We have a clip if you want. I can play a clip from their podcast too, whenever you're ready. From Maria and Nicole's podcast? All right, we will do that in just a second. And also I am watching the Twitter spaces, although I'm not a co-host there yet, Caleb. So I'm going to get a co-host there

in case we want to get some questions in. And Susan is monitoring the restream and the Rumble rants. There we go. And let's see. I want to remind everybody that tomorrow we'll be back on our home studio at Dow to Kelly victory, uh, joining us again.

Uh, let's hear, let's, let's do a little outtake and see a little bit of the podcast. I, I've seen so much of this stuff in pathology. Cause like, let me give you guys a brief introduction with this, but whenever you go to the emergency room and anything is taken off your body, whether it's a tumor, a miscarriage, anything like that, if it gets removed in the emergency room, it goes to pathology for documentation. This includes like if your kid swallows a quarter, if you get a dildo stuck up your butt, it all goes to pathology. So I've seen my fair fair number my fair share of these things and so have my friends so we have a lot of stories to tell but continue with male genitals so male genitalia we have sex toys which you would think would be the most obvious and beads

and then we have paper clips coins a car key a pencil a nail a ceiling fan chain a cell phone charger and then a wooden spoon now just just so i'm clear uh ladies is that found up the keister or the rectum or is that something in the up the male urethra that was just in the urethra correct because we had a whole other section of rectal foreign bodies of course maria did you ever imagine did you ever imagine this is what you'd be doing at your young adulthood no never and did you know did you know as long as we're going to lean into the discomfort here did you know your mom was subjected to all this, that all the things that people put into themselves? Oh yeah. I mean, I basically went to college with her, which I can't even believe they were letting a little kid sit in the back of biology college

classes. I learned a lot and then I went. And I'm guessing she has pretty healthy, interesting dinner table conversation. Oh oh it's totally unhinged in this household and she also when I was when I was in cytology school she was there the whole summer because I didn't have a babysitter

and she was like a little kid and then she worked even in the morgue in the hospital she would volunteer in the summers when she was off. Nice. So she's seen a lot of stuff. She would take pictures of placentas for me. Oh, yeah.

Is it a chainsaw chain? No. Susan asked, was it a chainsaw chain up the urethra? I think they said a fan or something. Ceiling fan chain. So like a lamp cord, essentially. Like a beaded one? Makeshift anal beads.

Yes, thank you. But for those of you that are into sounding, Marie, you know what sounding is? No. Oh, mom? Yes. Do you care to? It's when guys stick things up their urethra for sexual arousal.

Okay. That's pretty much it. They're sounding kids. They tend to be. Hey, Vince. You want to get on camera here? Hold on a second. Vince Sant here.

Just saying hi. Hello, everybody. I don't know if they can see me. Hi. Where is the camera? Oh, it's super late. There it is. Hello, everybody.

This is the face and brains on v shred so that's maria and uh nicole and jimmy you guys sorry for interrupting so it's hard not to like fans right um so yeah the sounding is there they're sounding kits out there in fact caleb you might want to just find a sounding kit and throw it up. No. They just look like surgical tubing. Yeah, they're not

in any way sexual appearing. I'm not Googling that. Alright. It's not bad. It's not bad unless they're pulling it in with the ladder. I'd like to see what comes up on that Google search. I don't want that in my algorithm. I might start to serve ads for that. I want that in my algorithm.

I know. Nicole goes for the macabre and the bizarre. Yes. So, yeah, but they push it in too far, and it ends up up the urethra and the bladder, that kind of thing. Did you say there was a spoon up somebody's urethra? A wooden spoon, yes. some splinters i've only seen pencils in real life pencils have been a big one that i've gotten in pathology that's urethra or rectal where are we going with this no rectal is is a whole other ballgame of goodies I've seen.

My very first one was a travel toothbrush holder. That makes perfect sense. And this is something that people don't understand, which is that if you spend a few weeks in an ER, you will see it's sort of uncanny what people put up there. And would they send you like a little uh history of present illness with the object so you get a little story to go with it or they just identify it that's it usually sometimes they'll they'll just put rectal foreign body that's it and then i make up my own story a lot of stories we hear is that they fell on it yeah i mean i have no idea what happened like

i told you i i told you one time i got the the most outrageous one was like a half eaten pear and i was like all right i need to look that because we could go in the medical record and i was like i need to look this up and see what happened but and what would they say sat on it the what no no it's the pear it was like the wife put it up there and was eating it out of her husband. Good times. Good times. I mean, at least they were honest.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. At least they didn't just say I sat on it, which is. I mean, come on. Yeah. That's almost the only one I've ever seen. How did it happen?

I sat on it. I fell on it. Maria knows that one. The best part of this story, though, is because I was younger and I was still living at home at the time. And I went home and told my dad. And my dad's real old school. He was like, if I had that pear in my butt, I'd die with that pear in my butt.

It's so great. This explains a lot. Okay, let's start to play. And by the way, you said things are unhinged in your household, Maria. Your current husband, Nicole, is Maria's stepdad, correct?

Is that how that works? Yeah, yeah. She was 13 when I met Gabia. And he's a fireman, right? He's a fire chief, actually. He's a captain. He's not a chief yet, but he's almost there. Fire captain.

And he must have his own unhinged stories that he brings to the table. Maria? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Between both of them, my husband's a barber. He has crazy stories as well. Does he cut people's ears off with the razor or something? What?

From every angle, there's crazy dinner table conversations. See, I always wanted a reality show camera running in your house. I really did. I think it'd be the best show on earth. It'd be the greatest thing anybody ever saw. And they would learn something.

It would get canceled right away. I don't know. Because it would have such an undercurrent of education. Really, I think about it, both from your husband and from you. Uh-oh, we got lots of... Here we go. GTO Mama says, I almost impaled myself with a toilet brush while cleaning the toilet. I don't want to know the story.

Here's another one. Elaine Green, ER docs are used to dealing with this stuff. That is true uh christine laugh out loud pear dad old school love that love your grandpa maria uh yeah your doc said the best story uh coin dragon what's it of it really was at the dinner table oh yeah we always talk about this at the dinner table everything is always at the dinner table okay fair enough. Caleb is, yeah, light bulbs, hoses.

Yep, Jennifer, I've seen that stuff too. Okay, let's get to the games. The light bulb is the most outrageous one. I agree because it's just, some of that stuff I just see surgical emergency and dying soon because that is not an easy area to get at surgically. They have to go back through the abdomen. It's not like you can go up through the rectum if you really have a surgical problem

there. That's why, okay, okay, you and I have never talked about this as long as we're going down this weird path. Maria, turn your headphones off. But there's this, I'm not going to, there's just all this craziness out there. I see all this at your mom's house with all the rectal prolapsing. Every time I see those sorts of images, I just go, oh my God, surgical emergency. That's going to cut the blood supply off and that person is going to get a surgery, a big surgery soon. Do you have that same reaction, Nicole? Yeah.

I mean, I can't even believe some of these things that people go through. They have to get like bowel resections and stuff just it's kind of crazy but i i mean to be fair people just this is kind of why i want to talk about this because people don't know that it could get that's right get stuck up there but like when you have to poop and then you don't go it goes back up right so the same thing happens when you stick anything up there the feeling right it's it it's not a skeletal musculature it goes down but it can also go the other direction a little bit and that's yeah exactly take things up and uh it's it's just so people you're right

people what was the other thing i was thinking people were doing to themselves and i thought oh my god if they only knew the real potential, I can't think of it now. Nah, no. Prolapsing is one of the things where I'm like, oh my God, this is just like, it's really serious stuff, but there's a lot of things like that that people do. Sounding is another one I worry about

where they're like, you're going to you only have so much mileage on that upstream, those upstream valves and musculature. As you get older, things start to break down normally, let alone if you've been pushing metal objects past it for 10 years. Anyway, enough. Let's play the game.

How do we play the game here, ladies? All right. So the first game that we're going to play is mystery diagnosis and that's going to be the first two pictures i show so i um one of these i showed on instagram and another one on my website the gross room but let's look at the first one and see if you know what it is so i show something and then everyone has to guess what it is and then the following week i tell everyone what it is and a lot of people are right which is what i love okay i mean i'm looking at is that a paper towel that this is on whatever it is right yeah it's a paper towel and uh

and it's three things and one is conjoined right and they're there is that what i'm looking at okay okay you're gonna show me something oh see if somebody on the restream gets it we're going and one is conjoined, right? Is that what I'm looking at? Okay. Okay, are you going to show me something? Oh, see if somebody on the restream gets it. We're going to give them a second while I kind of think it through. Yeah, people are thinking that this is sort of in the zone of, and I was thinking this too,

sort of in the sputum zone. Are we correct that way? No. No. Is it in the nasal discharge zone people saying blood clots i don't i don't see blood clotty there's a blood clots no huh give us could you give hints as you uh as you go through down the salivary so salivary abscess so i could start telling you some history okay and then maybe you could figure it out so this guy this is a guy probably i don't know exactly how old he is i would say

that he's in his 30s late 20s or 30s um and he had a tattoo done on his neck and then this was it back in july and then in september he presented with a large mass about like the size of a walnut above his adam's apple above the thyroid cartilage and also some um lymphadenopathy in the neck on the one side so okay so hold on so hold on so let's sort of break that down so we So we have a procedure that got infected maybe, and the lymph nodes is a sign that the body's trying to fight off the infection or the inflammation. And you're saying it's right about here, right? Midline?

Yeah. But it was a pretty large, yeah, right above the thyroid cartilage. It was a pretty large nodule with adjacent lymphadenopathy. Okay. But you're saying, see, when I think about common midline stuff in that region, I think about things a little lower, like a thyroglossal duct cyst.

Is this that? No. No. Is that a good guess, or am I in the wrong zone still entirely? No, I mean, I think I would say that that was a good guess because okay because that that's something that you should have in the differential but that's not what it is okay so then that bob in the bazaar which is something got into his area here as they

were doing the tattoo and if i and i'm and as i'm sort of thinking about it i know nicole it would have to be like a parasite or something is that a worm or is that is that something that i think i think you're thinking too okay tell us what my kids all the time you're thinking you're thinking too much about it all right so he so he goes to the ent doctor and they say okay we want to take it out because obviously like if you have lymphadenopathy in a guy especially in a younger person like you might be thinking like lymphoma or something so but but the lymphoma was on the hang on hang on but but the lymphoma is laterally right it's on the lymphadenopathy ladder you said

this thing was midline right yeah it was it was midline and he also had he also had a lymphadenopathy so once he went in for the surgery because you have to wait a while and stuff it started going it started shrinking down but they it didn't shrink down all the way and they were like we still want to take it out and see what's going on and they take it out and they send it to pathology and this is what it looks like when they take it out and they send it to pathology. And this is what it looks like when they take it out. And they know what it was when they took it out. I would know what it was if I got it in pathology right away, because I've seen it multiple times, but did the surgeons,

I'm not sure. So when they looked at it under the microscope, dot, dot, dot, it was tattoo pigment. Oh, and that's it.

Just tattoo pigment can do that. Yep. Yeah. So when you get a tattoo the macrophages come in and try to their cells in the immune system that come in to clean up like if you get a cut they come clean up the dirt and bacteria and stuff and they take on the tattoo pigment and what you're looking at is like a bunch of macrophages that have engulfed tattoo pigment in the lymph nodes so we get we see it from time to time the first time i saw it was was years ago we got lymph nodes from a woman that had breast cancer and the pathologist was just like what the hell is that they thought it was she had a met and then you look at it under the microscope and it's just

tattoo pigment and it could also mimic like melanoma in the lymph node that's what it would look like too so is that why maria doesn't have any tattoos oh she does all right i just didn't get a neck tattoo like your mom no what are you why are you sorry nicole because it's like i should have listened to my mom that's why she was like you're gonna get old one day like me and your neck's gonna be down here and it's like I should have listened to my mom that's why she was like you're gonna get old one day like me and your neck's gonna be down here and it's gonna and I was like no I'm not I got this tight chin mom and now it's like all right and now it's starting to go down you know I should have listened but to be fair to be fair to your instinct it does reduce some of the sun collagen damage does it doesn't it absorb some of that?

I don't know. We could talk about my weird skin problems another episode. Uh-oh. You okay? Is it all tattoo related? Yeah, I do. It's just, you know, yeah. Me and the sun don't get along.

You know that. Well, but there's laxity versus wrinkles, right? And laxity we all get. Gravity wins. And that's the part your mom was really warning you about. Your tattoos aren't going to look so good when there's lots of laxity, which is the sort of drooping that we get. And then wrinkles are all this business. I tell my husband all the time, I'm like, you're going to have to take a second mortgage on the house.

I don't even care. I have to get this fixed when I get older. Which, just so you and Susan can compare notes, I get the house. I don't even care. I have to get this fixed when I get older. Which, just so you and Susan can compare notes, I get the same talking to once. Next. Me and Susan are going to go together. Next. Hold on a second. Just staple it back here. Yeah, you do have to take a mortgage out on the house on that one. All right. Let's keep playing the the game what else you got for us all right so we're good with that one case two is do you you have the picture of that right so this they'll show it up

yeah yeah and uh let me uh just warn this one is a bit this one's even worse so here we go okay well the other one didn't look bad the other was just some ink for god's sakes oh yeah okay so this is okay that looks bad yeah well it it's a what what i again i'm not you i'm not as accustomed actually to describing gross specimens as you are by gross i mean large specimens so i'm going to call it a fungating mass would that be great is that it's good yes yeah so it's a fungating mass. Would that be great? That's good, yes. So it's a fungating mass and it's clearly in the forehead area and it's fungating in such a way

I'm sure you got the path. I don't know how deep it goes but it can't go that deep or this person would have been dead a long time ago. So for me it could be like basal cells can get pretty bad without penetrating the skull and things. So can squames sometimes.

Yeah, it's a forehead. I think I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. So, you're saying it's cancer. I'm saying it might be cancer. It could also be wart, I suppose. I mean, warts can be pretty elaborate sometimes. But I'm sort of going towards a cancer that has only local spread associated with it,

not going to metastasize or penetrate. But I'm sure it could be something odd and bizarre too. So talk us through it. What do you got? All right. So this case this is this case is kind of insane actually and it shows you some of the desperate measures that people were going through um during the time of the lockdowns and everything this guy is a 65 year

old guy and he was treated he had squamous cell carcinoma back in 1990 so now forward fast forward 30 years and in 2020 so early on in the lockdowns he presented he had this mask that started growing on his forehead and of course he he went to the doctor because he was freaking out because he obviously have already survived cancer knew what it was and he went and they basically told him like we aren't doing elective surgeries right now so unless you're dying we're not we're not doing this right now that should be please send that to the bioethics department at whatever facility i've seen a bunch of cases like this so So the guy, the guy flips, you know, he,

he didn't do the right thing, but you could understand what he did. And he went home and he tried to cut it off himself with a knife. This is a cancer survivor. Like he knows that when he got the other one cut out, it saved his life. Right. So desperate times call for desperate measures.

Right. So he cut it out and it didn't really bleed that much. And then he thought that, you know, he got it out and it looked fine for a couple of weeks. So he left the border. He didn't get the border of the cancer, right? Is that what I'm looking at? Yeah. Like, I mean.

Yeah. Yeah. So what happened was a couple of weeks later, it grew back like this. This is the part that really pisses me off the worst of this whole case. So now the guy has a hemoglobin of five because he has this tumor that is making him anemic. And now he's a candidate for surgery because he's anemic and needs a transfusion.

I'm so angry about stories like that. I feel numb. Nicole, Maria. Me too. It just pisses me off. I posted this case on my website and so many people underneath were telling me,

were saying similar stories that happened to them or their family members that just like people couldn't get any treatment unless they were dying really and you want to you know we've had this we've had this increase in excess deaths that have gone unexplained and i'm totally prepared to accept that it's stories like this that have resulted in the excess deaths so you would expect it to start to come down i think it is a little bit so it's either vaccine or covid or both or this or all of the above and why aren't they explaining that i

cannot get that through my head why that isn't an emergency in some countries somewhere and yet they all seem to ignore it do you have a theory yeah i don't i don't know i i i understand like during the time that people just didn't know what was going on and there was there was just lots of they couldn't put resources towards different things but yeah i think that i think that a lot of it is like now it doesn't even seem like anybody's apologizing about it talking about it's just like let's just pretend that didn't happen and move on. And it's just, it's just, this is just one of many cases of people doing something outrageous to help themselves. You know, it's scary.

And I would also say, you know, those of you that want it just to go, just to go into the playbook, just forget about it. Who, who excused it as, well, we just didn't know. How did Nicole and I know? How did we know that there was something wrong here? Now, we knew. We would call each other and complain about it. I would go, because it was one of the few people I could talk to. Yeah, it's like, what the hell is going on here?

How do we know? And you didn't know? Oh, really? Or were you not thinking you were irresponsible, you have bioethical failure, and you didn't think from a risk-reward standpoint the way you should be trained to? Anyway, excuse me. That's my public service announcement. All right. So what is it Wednesday now?

Is that what we're going to play next? Or we still have more mystery diagnosis? No, it's kind of like mystery diagnosis, but a little bit different. So we play What Is It Wednesday on my website the gross room and this one's fun because i show a couple different photos of different injuries and the people have to guess like what caused the injury and then which one is a deep deep insight into your mom's brain there maria this one's fun because we can get to decide what the injury is what the horrible disfiguring event was for these unfortunate people so i feel your pain maria we get it there's a nice little insight there but go ahead i know people people yell at me about that all the time but whatever anyway um the so so yeah

so i show different cases that are you know what caused this injury and people have to guess the reason that i say it's fun is because it's educational guesses and i like i like when people are like saying this looks like this and this is why it can't be this it's and and they're learning from stuff that i'm teaching them so i think that that's super cool um by the way before you tell us hold on who who designed the uh the your logo for mother knows death that's up there who designed that it's brilliant well well done marows Death that's up there. Who designed that? It's brilliant. Well done, Maria. It's really good. It's such great branding. Great branding.

The photography, everything just goes so well together. Not only that, but it captures as the way I know them, it just captures them so well. That's all Maria. She's so good. Maria came and visited us in New York years ago do you remember that yeah she's sitting over here so okay

so so all right so now we're going to play what is it with but sometimes I throw in a curveball with like a fake special effects photo that they would use like on movie sets or something like that so you have to determine and that one's even more fun because so many people think that ones that are real are fake and fake are real. So it's kind of fun.

Got it. We have three of these. All right. And this is a, and give me the, what is the conceit again? Yeah, I get it. And so you're, we're asking what is that purple spot? Is that the question? What, yeah, like what caused this purple spot? Is that the question? Yeah, like what caused this injury? What happened to this person? And is this, can you give us a hint? Like, is this part of the cause of death?

Yes. Uh-oh. You know, I have a weird phobia about crush injuries to the leg. So I'm guessing, I'm just guessing, because I'm looking at the, this person is lying on their abdomen, I assume, they're prone, and that left calf is a lot bigger. And so I'm going to guess there's like a crush injury with a compartment syndrome or something on that side. I'm sure it's something more bizarre, but what are you going to get in close here? I feel like the purple thing is sort of a, I feel like the purple thing might be a bit of a misdirection. Yeah, but it could be crush.

I'm thinking crush injury. Well, what do we got here? What's going on? All right, so you're going to be shocked by this one. Okay. This lady died from a massive pulmonary embolism. I am shocked because if somebody with that kind of asymmetric edema should be sent to an ultrasound immediately if they're seen by a doctor. Had she been seen by a doctor?

Oh, I don't know. I don't know what happened. Because that's the part that bugs me yes so go ahead and her leg is so she for those of you that don't know what this is she had a huge blood clot in the veins of her leg that was traveling up into her heart and got lodged within her lungs and that is what caused her to die and you could see that the leg has become swollen because if the blood the veins bring the blood back to the heart and if it's not moving then the blood's going to start backing up into the foot which is why you see all that

congestion in the bottom of her foot and her leg is enlarged and that and as dr drew was saying if a person including you you, being alive, if one of your legs is significantly more swollen than the other, you should go to the hospital right away because you could have a serious issue going on there. That's right. I don't want everybody running in. Because when you have leg edema and you're older, it's typical that one leg will be a little more pronounced than the other.

But if you have one leg that is not edematous and the other is swollen, that's a medical emergency. You go right now for an ultrasound. And as Nicole was pointing out, the reason it's emergency is because the big vein down the center of our legs is one sort of continuous system. And that clot will move up past the knee. And if it gets there, you're in big trouble because large clots can then get to your lung and then blood can't get across the lung. And it just stops on the right side of the heart.

And that's the end of everything. You're getting no blood to the rest of your body. Well, good times. What else you got for a, what is it, Wednesday? Well, these are actually one of my favorite autopsies. They're really satisfying. I have to mention this really quickly. So if anyone has

trypophobia, I believe is how you pronounce it, this one might trigger you. Hold a second. Well, tripe is stomach. Oh, so here we go. Is that actually a thing? Yeah, there's certain patterns that trigger people people and i know someone who has this too where it's certain patterns especially dots no no it's definitely not me uh and also if it was me i'd never admit

it because then i just get bombarded with it don't forget yeah has a religion after him he's garage yeah but some people this really strongly triggers them. There's certain type of plants or flowers that have these dots and these, you know, it's a certain way

of doing it where someone looks at it and they just get a really icky feeling. It throws, like makes them feel really weird. I think it's trypophobia.

So I can't, I can't tell what body part that is, but that, saddle clots is what we were talking about with the pulmonary embolism. That's what I was describing.

So we're on to the next thing here. So I still can't even tell quite what body part that is, but I'm guessing that's like a burn, like a waffle iron or something fell on somebody. And yet the superior, those two or three dots in the midline at the top, the superior area, I can't explain that. So give me a little history here. All right. So the photo that we're looking at right now is the chest.

And what you're describing with the little dots in the lines is a pattern abrasion. Which a pattern abrasion occurs when some foreign object is is hitting the skin and causing those marks yeah so do you have any first i guess we should start with do you have any idea what could have caused that pattern i i'm don't explain to me though right in the midline the most superior three dots that's actually the most confusing thing to me do you see that right the midline is superior we'll talk about that once i tell you what happened to this okay oh boy that is significant that you're okay trypophobia okay we got it um. Uh, maybe a tire, tire goes over somebody's chest. How about that?

No, but the tire marks aren't seen like that. They look like that. Yeah. Then the next thing would be something like almost explosive coming across. You know what I mean? Uh, but tell us more. All right. This is chest. This is is this is kind of a

crazy case but this guy worked and on like a machinery of an industrial size washing machine and dryer and he got caught up in it and pulled in between the external and internal drum of the washing machine. And the worst part of this story is that his co-workers heard him screaming for a couple of minutes and were not able to pull him out of the machine. But what happened was the machine basically squeezed

his chest so much that he had something called traumatic asphyxia. So it compressed on him so it just basically squeezed him to death and that's what you're seeing at the top that's what you were saying is you could see that there's there's contusion up there yeah more significant right across because this part that we're looking at now is kind of like his abdomen right below his ribs or right at his ribs, you know? So that part was the worst part to get squeezed on, of course, over his heart.

So that's one of my fears, phobias. You've hit on a couple of my big phobias. It's getting stuck in an industrial size washing machine. No, it's being, when I was a kid once, I went like a cave exploring, and I squeezed through a small hole, and I got stuck. And that feeling of being unable to expand your lungs, people don't appreciate how awful that is. And somebody pulled me through at the last second. But you have to expire all the way to get all the way out, and that's a big risk when you're feeling like you can't breathe. And my dad split his mouth open when he was an

older man and he was on Coumadin. And I was in the ER holding pressure on his mouth while I was in a trauma unit. And a guy came in, a car had fallen on him. He was under the car and it fell on his chest. Oh, God. Yeah, exactly this. And I sat there listening to the code, the trauma code, and the trauma surgeon put in like about nine chest tubes. And I was sitting there going, oh my God, why are they,

this is not going anywhere clearly. And he'd been under the car for like eight minutes or something. And that guy pulled through. And that guy pulled through and i talked to the surgeon afterwards and i said god i was i was listening to your code that went on for about a half an hour and i was just thinking why why do it how'd that turn out he went i made it i was like jeez it really is hard to tell who's going to get through these things right yeah and I can't imagine what your life is like after that like how do you ever get over

that I'm hoping he was unconscious during most of it you know what I mean but you don't know certainly that's a good recipe for PTSD okay is there any more what is it Wednesday are we all out of material here there's one more

alright oh yeah we can't show this one the viewers can't see it because it's too what is it Wednesday or are we all out of material here? There's one more. Alright. Oh yeah, we can't show this one. Of course the viewers can't see it because it's too gruesome. Can we see it at the grossroom.com? Yeah, totally. Okay, I saw this picture. Caleb sent it to me and to me it either looked

like the kind of thing that like a dog or a tiger would do or like a like like a real bad machine like a machine that suddenly pulls everything you know gets sucked in quickly you pull back and everything gets sort of ungloved so what do we got here so this is like a like a degloving injury which is when the basically the skin is and underlying soft tissue is ripped right off of the bone of this hand. And this is fake, actually. This is by a special effects artist named Powder.

He has a really cool Instagram and he does all this stuff. And yeah, it's fake. That is about... I was so convinced that it was real that I was not... I don't even have the uncensored image to show here. I just censored it and this is the one that I blurred. And then she told me before the show, she's like, well, guess what? That's the special effects photo.

Well, I will tell you what, you could put the real thing and that special effects side by side and that you could not tell, no way you could tell which one is the special effect. That is exactly what that looks like in real life. Yeah, and on his Instagram, these are blurred on Instagram so that the algorithm and their technology is picking it up as real. Oh, interesting. That is interesting.

Well, guys, we have zoomed along here and we've eaten up all our time together. I could go on, you know, chatting for quite some time. Maria, I'm sorry that your mom and I geeked out a little bit. We left you out of some of that conversation.

I know, but, but we don't, we don't, you know, Nicole and I don't have a lot of time to talk. And when we do, we're normally complaining.

I have too much time with her. So it's always. I'm taking the heat off you a little bit. Thank you. So I will sort of finish with Maria, what's coming up from your standpoint on the show and what kind of promo? Susan's got something to say too, I feel like. Okay. What's coming up that's interesting to you other than Nicole and I have said enough so far?

What's coming up on the show for maria next week we are going to have uh somebody that specializes in forensic tattoos on so that's going to be a really amazing episode i'm really interested in that from a true crime perspective that's dr michelle miranda yeah she's amazing yeah she's gonna be such a good forensic tattoo specialist so um we're really looking for it because we covered a news story a couple weeks ago about a woman that was identified after years of

not knowing who she was by her tattoo. It's pretty interesting. There's the book, Nicole and Jemmy's Anatomy book. Have you guys ever brought in that guy that runs the decay farm in Kentucky, the field of decaying bodies and animals and things so we we actually can't i think that he's older and retired now

and he's not doing interviews but we we are interviewing someone from the body farm in like a week or two in like two weeks in two weeks yeah so we're going to talk all about the body farm so we'll have an episode about the Body Farm coming up. That'll be really awesome. Today we dropped an episode with author of The League of Lady Poisoners, Lisa Perrin. She wrote this awesome, beautiful book about women that poison throughout history. So that was definitely a cool interview. Yeah, that was super cool.

I have a couple of reactions. One is I was noticing when you were talking about the body farm uh maria i could see from a forensic standpoint is interested and nicole is just generally delighted by the body farm just generally i just i have so many questions yeah i'm geeking out about it in a way because i have a degree in photography and we studied sally man who did this gorgeous book called all That Remains. And she did a photographic series at the Body Farm that's beautiful. So I'm excited about it from that perspective.

Interesting. The aesthetic of the Body Farm. That's interesting. And then I'm thinking of Dometici in terms of famous poisoners, did you go all the way back that far? Oh, yeah. The book covers, it goes back really far to ancient Egypt with Cleopatra. It was awesome. Broken down by women who were sometimes escaping situations that were bad for them, like in Cleopatra's.

She didn't want to be taken over. She would rather die. And then women escaping abusive marriages and then all the way to just pure evil. And Catherine de' Medici was sort of more in the trying to, you know, deal with horrible situations, both politically and personally, I think. But what did she use?

Was she able to, because I've heard all this controversy, like it really didn't happen, or here's her cabinet where she kept it all what did she what did she allege to have used i don't recall off of the top of my head would she use but i know a lot of them at the time were using a lot of herbal concoctions and i don't think arsenic really came around until much later which seems to be the primary focus of the book oh interesting and there's been so many poisonings in the news like this year so it was it was great to talk to her about what it because the last case she covered was like 1950 and now it's like all of these new modern ones and it was just it's cool

because it's still happening you know i don't want to say it's cool. A lot of gratitude for you guys up there showing up on our restream. Let me give all the particulars again. Hold on about where to find you guys, because the podcast has its own, both Twitter and Instagram, correct? Yes. Okay, let me,

where are you guys going? It's at mother knows death, right? For both Twitter and Instagram, uh, at Mrs. MRS underscore and Jemmy for the Instagram, for all the lovely pictures.

Uh, and then, uh, Maria is at Maria Q Kane, K with a K A N E. And, uh, again,

the pod, you can get it, uh, anywhere that you list the podcast, I assume Apple, Spotify, or Nicole's YouTube channel, which is YouTube slash

MRS and Jemmy, and of course thegrossroom.com. Guys, great to see you. Thanks for having us. Thank you. All right. Take care. We'll hope to see you again soon. Take care. And Caleb, let's throw up just quickly. Tomorrow, we have Ed Dowd coming in with Kelly Victory back

on 3 o'clock. We'll be in our normal studio. And again, thanks to the VShred guys for – whoops, I always screw that up. I think it's on this side and it's – there it is, VShred. And I've got to have a little surgery on Thursday to try to help my shoulders along here. Salty Cracker coming in on December 12th. December 13th, Senator Rand Paul and Dr. Mary Talley Bowden, who I'm interested in talking to both of them. And then Roseanne on the 10th of January

she just booked. I'm going to try to get onto her podcast between now and then as well. So, thank you all. Thank you to Colin and all the VShred people here who very kindly hosted us here. Susan, anything from your standpoint? Everything cool? All right. Caleb, you're good? Everything all good

all right we will see you all tomorrow at 3 o'clock Pacific time Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky as a reminder the discussions here are not a substitute

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