Ask Dr. Drew - The Great Betrayals: Epstein Case Closed (No List?), Diddy Mischarged (On Purpose?) & The COVID Coup (Planned Before 2020?) w/ Emilie Hagen, Elizabeth Kucinich & Debbie Lerman – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 505

Episode Date: July 12, 2025

Emilie Hagen reports on the DOJ’s closing of Jeffrey Epstein’s case – with the government claiming there is no evidence he was murdered, and no client list to share with the public – and the Diddy trial verdict. Elizabeth Kucinich exposes the betrayal of America’s organic farming movement by Congress and industry lobbyists, while Debbie Lerman reveals how a militarized COVID response was planned long before 2020. Emilie Hagen is a journalist reporting on the Diddy trial. She shares insights on her platform, Emily Knows Everything on Instagram. More at https://instagram.com/emilieknowseverything Elizabeth Kucinich is a food policy leader and documentary producer who has advised Congress and federal agencies. She produced “Organic Rising” and “GMO OMG.” More at https://substack.com/@elizabethkucinich/⠀Debbie Lerman is a former medical writer and a Brownstone Fellow. She is author of “The Deep State Goes Viral” available at https://amzn.to/44zD015 on Amazon. More at https://debbielerman.substack.com 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/sponsors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • ACTIVE SKIN REPAIR - Repair skin faster with more of the molecule your body creates naturally! Hypochlorous (HOCl) is produced by white blood cells to support healing – and no sting. Get 20% off at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/skinrepair⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • VSHREDMD – Formulated by Dr. Drew: The Science of Cellular Health + World-Class Training Programs, Premium Content, and 1-1 Training with Certified V Shred Coaches! More at https://drdrew.com/vshredmd • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and Susan Pinsky (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/firstladyoflov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠e⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oh how I hope you all listen to that roll in tape that we run for the prep for the show. We were both me and Paul Alexander were clairvoyant in our vision of the future. So that was over a year ago. All right. Great show today as well. Elizabeth Kucinich is here. The Great Betrayal is her book, The Battle Against Making America Healthy Again. She has a load of data on how things are going the wrong way you might think things are going well.

They, according to Elizabeth, are not doing so. We're going to get an update on the DD trial from our friend Emily Knows Everything, Emily Hagan. And then Debbie Lerman is going to stop by. She is the author of a new book, The Deep State Goes Viral, Pandemic Planning and the COVID Coup. But simply it could have been a regular public health

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Like, why aren't you taking your Centosync? I am taking it. All right, good. But you also can go to drdrew.com slash vshredmd and you don't have to put the code in. Ah, good, excellent, okay. All right, let's get right to our first guest. It is Elizabeth Kucinich.

The Great Betrayal is the name of her book, The Battle Against Making America Healthy Again. You can follow Elizabeth, her sub stack is at ElizabethKucinich slash post, K-U-C-I-N-I-C-H, and it's EJ Kucinich, K-U-N-C-I-N-I-C-H, be careful on the spelling,

EJ Kucinich on X. Elizabeth, thank you and welcome. Thank you, wonderful to be with you. So, you know, I know the people over there at the HHS, I know they're working hard. Where have they jumped the shark from your standpoint? Oh, I love what HHS is up to and many attempts to truly make America healthy again.

I'm really interested in the rest of government. So, you know, we have a very prominent secretary who's been leading the charge to make America healthy again from HHS, but it's really important that we look now to see what the rest of the administration is doing with respects to either increasing or decreasing our chemical exposure and putting money behind things that we should or shouldn't have.

And very sadly, what we've seen in the last budget reconciliation is a massive increase in government subsidies, 130 billion going to the most toxic chemical crops that there are out there. We see a big push within the farm bill and within other pieces of legislation for a chemical liability shield that means that we won't have any recourse just like with the vaccine liability shield we won't have any recourse, just like with the vaccine liability shield, we won't have any recourse with regards to the negative effects of agrochemicals. And the other one is really advancing something called the EATS Act. And the EATS Act comes in many forms and has been fought over many congresses. But what this does is removes all of the local federal, sorry, local and state laws that

are protecting people from exposure to chemicals that say, your town might say, you can only spray chemicals within a certain distance from school, EATS Act of level overturn, all of those betterments and mean that people will have greater exposure to chemicals when really we're trying to protect people from those. So we've got the EATS Act preventing local authorities

and states from helping their people. And then we have the chemical liability shield saying, well, you're not gonna be able to have any legal recourse if you are harmed, so. So I wanna kind of parse this out a little bit. Now is this Brooke Rollins' department? This is the Department of Agriculture? Is she the one overseeing all that department? This is the Department of Agriculture.

Is she the one overseeing all that? We've got the Department of Agriculture is one side absolutely with Brooke Rollins and also inside Congress itself. And it's very sadly both political parties have somewhat of an undue influence by chemical companies. Okay, and I want to parse out, again, I want to get very specific.

Now it seems to me that some of the great emphasis of HHS has been on exposure to chemicals ingested in and amongst food sources, right? Sort of what is, what are we eating and what is it doing to us? It sounds like you're talking about people who live and work in and around where these crops are sprayed. Am I getting that wrong?

Well, so, you know, obviously people who are farm workers, our farmers have the greatest exposure to agrochemicals because they're applying them. But of course, we're also ingesting them too. So, you know, it's the farm workers that are... Because those are two very different, those seem like very, very different things. Because theoretically, I mean,

we've been very concerned about stuff, you know, stuck in the middle of food that we can't get out of it, like dyes and GMOs and things. It seems to me that if we wash our vegetables and our fruit, we're going to limit our exposure to stuff that the farm workers and the communities can't, can't just, they're breathing the air.

So am I right here or no? I wish it were as easy that we could just wash it all off. And of course you wash it all off, it goes somewhere, but no, we can't. These things are endemic inside the foods themselves. When we look at genetically engineered crops, there are two particular traits to those crops. One is pesticide producing, where it's literally part of the crop itself and you eat it, and the other is herbicide and pesticide resisting,

so you can spray them directly on. Either way, whichever it is that you're consuming, you're increasing your ingestion of those things. So we've got this, HHS is looking at the ingredients and the ultra-process processed foods, which is highly commendable. And the other side of health is we really have to look at the actual process that gets food onto our table in the first place. Okay, and I'm guessing it seems kind of difficult. I understand why they're so challenged

because we don't run as a country on little French farms that are milking the cows. We have gigantic operations in this country. And in a weird way, we'd be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Do you have a plan for how we manage all this? I assume they feel they need it in order to deliver the crops. From a federal level, of course, there's been major attacks

on the family farm. The foundation of American, any kind of economy, is our producer class. And it is our farm worker, which is a farmer, who is the foundation of our economy here, still in the foundation of our health, ever so important. Sadly, from a regulatory and a governmental standpoint, we've been exposed to policies that have really advanced get big or get out. And because we're using crops and highly expensive processes, such as agriculture, which is based

on having to bring pesticides and herbicides and artificial fertilizers to the farms, within cropping systems that are actually not supporting the microbiome of the soil. I mean, you understand obviously very deeply the microbiome of the gut and how important that is. The same is true of the soil. I know the soil too. The microbiome of the soil.

I was part of, I'm laughing, I'm smiling because I was part of the ecology movement in the 70s. And this was one of our big things. We were very acid rain. Do you remember acid rain back in the day? If you heard about acid rain. And we still have it. Our pair, I know, but we were, you know,

we were apoplectic about it back then. And we also were predicting famine. Well now we have glyphosate rain and etchazine rain and all of these other agrochemicals that are literally in our hydrological cycle. But isn't glyphosate out? Isn't it out now or is it still in the cycle? It's one of the largest used herbicides that there is out there. It's not out at all. There's just a discussion about it. But this is the thing, we need to be able to, and you too,

to bring on as many guests as possible to help to educate legislators that there's a system of agriculture that advances chemical thinking, and there's a system of agriculture that advances biological and understands ecology, and that is organic. It's regenerative organic. And we know there are thousands of farmers in America who know how to grow with rotations, increasing the resilience of our crops, reducing the numbers of herbicides and pesticides because it's simply not warranted within those systems. And that build the, as you understand,

the importance of the immunity of the body. The farm field has the same kind of immunity too, depending on how we farm it. And we have the idea of intervention in the human body. The intervention is part of that in the farm system is the chemicals and it is broken, the ecological immunity of our lands. And there's a way to heal that too.

We just need for USDA and also EPA to look into that more seriously. I mean, two questions. I mean, one is I hear a lot about regenerative farming. I thought it was kind of coming on. We have a partner here, Paleo Valley, who's very involved with the regenerative farming. I have two questions.

A, how much of the farming is presently regenerative? Is it a tiny percentage? I really don't know. And then how did you get into this field? Thank you. Well, it is a very small percentage in America that is regenerative organic. And one of the big reasons for that is that farmers grow to basically the formula of government. And government subsidies are sponsoring the crops that are most chemical intensive. They're incentivizing systems of agriculture which really reduce the resiliency of

our farm system. And then the government goes and supports with crop insurance. This is okay, you've broken your farm system, you've made your system less resilient. We'll come in and we'll save you there as well. And this isn't for the farmer, it's not for the consumer, it's not for the nutrition density of the food. This is really a giveaway to the large agrochemical sector. It's to big tractor, big seed, big chemical. Tractor, Big Seed, Big Chemical.

And many of those companies are not American anyway. I just don't understand why that's, you know, why we're really proponents of these kinds of policies. And as my own background, I was the director of policy at the Center for Food Safety in Washington, D.C., where we looked at chemicals in agriculture, drugs in meat, genetic engineering. I was the government affairs director at the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, where we looked at the prevention and reversal of disease through plant-based nutrition.

I'm a former policy chair at the Rodale Institute, which is the oldest organic research institute in the United States, and was instrumental also in helping to, in that role, create the ROC, which is the Regenerative Organic Certification, which uses organic as the baseline, but then adds on to it additional things, not just the absence of bad chemicals, but the existence and the presence of soil health, animal welfare, and a whole suite of other things.

So when you buy regenerative organic, you know really it's advancing truly regenerative organic agriculture and also the culture of regeneration, which is ultimately to support life. And so the obvious question is then why are we not getting you back inside government? Is that not a place where you feel you can continue to have an impact or is not as much of an impact as being outside and rattling the sabers?

Or do you tell me? I'm very happy to be anywhere where I can be an agent to truly support the call for life in this country. And our food system, our health system, looking at it in an integrated fashion is absolutely essential. And, you know, Maha is a great rally cry and now we need to make sure that the administration doesn't only use it for polling, but really puts the policies behind it.

And we need to make sure that the appointees that come into the administration do know what they're doing. I mean, it's very frightening to have someone like Kankla be put into the EPA, being in charge of the chemicals that are coming into the system, being the biggest proponent of them from the private sector.

So, you know, this rotational door needs to start to close. Yeah. And a lot of the people in the whole Maha world are very concerned about animals and vaccination. What is your sort of assessment of what's going on there? We have a recent release from the CDC. I don't know if you all saw that, Caleb, you could probably find it.

Bird flu, no longer a problem. Shocking, shocking. I've been predicting that the whole way. And if there, and to contain whatever bird flu there is, standard infection control techniques that we have used for the last 45 years. And by the way, as recommended by the Great Barrington Declaration under a different name. But I'm gonna let you talk about vaccines and animals. Where are we with that? Well, I mean, let's look at really boosting the immune system of the body, be it an animal or,

or a human being. We need to make sure that the animals are living in a condition which gives them ability to have fresh air, go outside, be able to move, eat good food, have social distancing, not be completely crowded and not be able to move, not be fed ultra-processed foods, genetically engineered grains. I mean, all these things are the way that we are housing our animals in these industrial systems is of course a breeding ground for, you know, diabolical amounts of all different kinds of diseases that go through there. And we're using so much, not just looking at the vaccines, but we're using so many antibiotics within our animal community in fact, that we're causing for them not to be working in human beings. So what was the government, this current administration's response to the avian few thing a few months

ago, it was actually to advance legislation that would actually bring more animals into containment and it was to redirect a billion dollars for really healthy food and for local food access to redirect that to vaccine development for chickens, essentially. So again, exactly the opposite of what you know needs to happen. So, my husband, amazing rally cry. Now we need the policies and the people who really know how to bring that into government.

It is common sense and we need common sense policy. And I am shocked. We, for two decades, 90s and 2000s, were so gravely concerned about antibiotic resistance. Oh, don't prescribe antibiotics. Don't prescribe them. There's going to be resistance. And then all of a sudden we're giving them

to every animal on earth, even without infection, just giving them all the time. And I've not heard one peep about the microbiome since all that started, which is also kind of a tell, isn't it? Absolutely. And you look at how many antibodies, so I think it's like 80% of the antibiotics

consumed in this country are used prophylactically in our animal populations, just so that you can keep them in confined, horrible cages and at high density. And it is absolutely eroding the hospital's ability to be able to treat patients. And we're really removing a tool from the toolkit by doing this. But of course, those antibiotics do two things within the animals, not just allowing for us to perpetuate a diabolical, horrendous factory farming system,

but it also increases their weight. And when we look at the kinds of drugs that are being put into animals now, there are 700 different kinds of drugs that animals can have, 450 of them just used very broadly. Many of them are growth promoters and other countries ban them and not allowed to have them. But when we look at where those drugs are stored in the animals, in the residue, it's in the fats, it's in the awful,

it's in places where then other sectors of nutrition are saying we should be eating more of these things. But we have to make sure that animals are grown in pasture, in organic systems, eating proper food, not just, not grain from industrial operations. And so to be able to speak to you is wonderful because I know that you understand this whole system's approach to health and it has to go back to the land and it has to go to the animal

and obviously the human animal. Well, I'm glad you're there fighting the fight. Before we wrap up, tell us what else people are going to read to The Great Betrayal. Well, actually, I'm very glad you said it was a book, but it was actually an article that I wrote on my sub stack because I know I have to have the book out there. But the three things-

Oh, I thought it was a book. It was a very long article. But the three things that we need to make sure we remember is that if you really care about the food you eat, make sure you buy organic because it's the best standard that we have out there. All across the United States, there are other labels which are great, regenerative organic, a real organic project, and obviously, biodynamic is amazing. And the two key pieces of legislation and proposals that we need to make sure get kept

out of the administration, out of the farm bill and out of every other bill that they might move them in. One is the EATS Act, which prevents states and local authorities from being able to protect us from exposure to chemicals and all different agricultural moves that might harm us and animals and others. And then the other is to really make sure that chemical liability shields are not allowed to either be advanced at a state level and very sadly two states have advanced them or at a federal level.

Now we have heard from Secretary Rollins and the chairs of the agriculture committees that they like both of those pieces of legislation and both of those proposals. So we need to make sure that they don't advance them. I was gonna say, I don't know if you've ever met Brooke Rollins, but I met her before she was in her current position, a cabinet position, and I found her to be a very bright, very motivated, very concerned, like wanting to do good.

So I would be surprised if you didn't have a sympathetic ear there. Yeah, I would love to be able to speak directly with her. I know how aware she is and how she is really hungry to learn about all these things. But Washington is a place where everybody will come with a proposal and it will sound really reasonable

But behind it will be something very dark. And so yeah, I I really hope that you know Some people were able to reach her and yeah change her mind on this Well, let's get you in there so you can have her ear directly as some sort of policy creation or creator Elizabeth where do you want people to go? Besides we have X, anywhere else you want people to find you? It's Elizabeth Kucinich. I said somewhere it said E, wait a minute, Elizabeth,

hang on, you have to tell me what your, Elizabeth H Kucinich? Am I saying that? No, no Elizabeth Kucinich. Somewhere it said EJ Kucinich. Is that an old one or something? That's my ex account. No, that's the ex account,

which I'm horrendous on social media and I should really start up. But I write quite lengthy articles on Substack at the Kucinich Report. And so I would be posting a lot more there. All right. Thank you so much for joining us and keep fighting. Thank you so much.

You got it. Elizabeth Kucincha, everybody, let's find a way to get her back in a driver's seat in Washington because it's astonishing to me that somebody with her fund of knowledge is not right there, you know, chewing on Brook Rollins' ear or somebody in that sort of zone in the agriculture department. This episode is brought to you by DZONE. There's somebody in that sort of zone in the agriculture department. Dane and more are all taking part and you can watch every match for free on Dazone starting on June 14th and running until July 13th. Sign up now at Dazone.com slash FIFA. That's D-A-Z-N dot com slash FIFA. All right.

We have a update on the Diddy verdict plus a little Epstein commentary from our friend Emily Hagen. Emily knows everything on all social media. And Emily does know everything. Emily, welcome back. Hey, I'm not outside for once. Hey. Wow, I bet you look,

you don't look as distracted and tired and all the things you had been. I'm more tired, but I'm less distracted. That's good. So, yeah, they just, I guess they were gonna expedite Diddy's sentencing. They wanted to move it a date closer to October 3rd, but it looks like they're gonna just stick to October 3rd.

So I'm done covering the Diddy trial for now. So I'm moving on to XD. Well, we're gonna do that in a second. But a small friend of mine, I did radio with her for a year, and she was an anchor at Fox 11 in Los Angeles, and she used to steal my guests from HLN. And she just posted something I saw from like probably 12 years ago, where this attorney friend of mine and some of we leaned on for commentary, was commenting on Diddy's arrest then.

So was he arrested for the original domestic abuse against, I'm not following everybody's name. I would have to, I was sort of, Passy. No, I don't think they ever filed their police report for that. That was like part of the defense's strategy, was saying, well, they never called the police. So I don't know they ever filed their police report for that that was like part of the defense's strategy was saying well They never called the police

So I don't know what a rush that I'm wondering what? Weird it was a whole thing and I was like, oh my god, there was something back then I don't let me see if anybody shows up on the restream with the Hold on here. Anyway, sorry, let's talk a little Okay Anyway, sorry, let's talk a little. I'll watch the rest of the stream to see if anybody has any report points. Okay. So let's talk about our buddy Epstein. It's interesting, Trump today was saying during cabinet meeting,

why do you people want to keep talking about that creep? That was insane. I thought that was interesting. That was actually insane. That wasn't interesting. That was insane. And then Emily immediately posted, Trump thinks we're stupid he does especially you

He really thinks we're done, you know, it's funny My funny my friend Anthony's caramucci was was doing an interview and he said he goes, you know Trump told me he called me called me dumb and he goes he goes well, he goes well, I know I'm dumb Mr. President, why why do you think called me dumb. And he goes, well, he goes, well, I know I'm dumb, Mr. President, why do you think I'm dumb? And he said, because you're socially liberal and fiscally conservative. You need to flip that around

because that's how most people are. And he was saying that that seems to be true now. But anyway, neither here nor there. So he thinks you're dumb. You posted about that. He thinks I'm dumb. And the thing that gets me is this eight hour tape of Epstein's hallway and the door to his room,

and then a minute's missing as though a minute is inconsequential. In fact, I made Caleb pull out a meme, I don't know if you've seen the memes going around. Caleb, do you have the meme that I asked you to pull up and we're able to see it? Here, watch, watch. The missing minute.

Oh no. That's Bill and Hillary coming out of this room. Things you can do with AI these days. That's amazing, I need to post that. Oh, there's so many, there's a bunch of them. Some of them are some better than others, but they're hysterical. And it makes the point in a humorous way,

I mean, anything could happen in a minute. I mean, Pam said they're gonna find that minute though. Don't worry guys, we're never getting a list, but they will ensure that they find that missing minute. Pam Boddy said that? I think the whole thing is, yeah, she said it today, after Trump was asked that question the press conference, she asked, that was the question that was asked.

The reporter asked Donald Trump, what happened to that missing minute? And he said, I'm sorry, I'm gonna take this for a second. Why are we still talking about Epstein? Why are we talking about that creep? I'm sorry, what? And then after Trump went on his little rant about why we should stop talking about Epstein, then Pam chimed in and said,

don't worry, we're going to find the minute. We don't want the minute. We want like, we want hours and hours and hours of footage. We don't care about the missing minute. Well, maybe Caleb cares about the minute, but. And Emily, there's a bigger question afoot. And I saw it, I had it myself, and immediately it showed up on my rumble rants here.

And that is, okay, Epstein had nothing to worry about. There's no list, he didn't do anything wrong, or he knew he didn't do anything wrong, or he didn't worry that there was anything sort of really problematic in the information that could be released about him. Why the F does somebody commit suicide if that's true? Right, that's what everybody's, that's what I,

there's so many memes about that now, what you're saying. It doesn't make sense. And then why would Ghislaine be, if they had thousands of victims and she was only trafficking them to Epstein, I don't think he had enough time, he's not dead, he didn't have time to do freak-offs that often. We know there was other clients. So it's very strange. I think the strange part is that they're the ones that started this. They invited those 15 influencers

to the White House on February 27th and handed them binders, poorly printed out, horrible font, typos that said Epstein files phase one. And they had the influencers wave them around in front of the West Wing. And they're the ones that made the American people excited about Epstein again. So now they're mad that we're wondering why that first phase was underwhelming, but now they're just saying like,

oh, we didn't find anything, it's over. And if indeed Cash Patel and Dan Bongino are telling the truth, let's just take that assumption for a second. Well, let's say he's lying, let's say they're lying. Why would they lie? What theories are out there that you find credible that would, other than protecting,

I would imagine somebody from another government or something, or could there be negotiations underway with Middle Eastern countries that could get undermined? I mean, what do you imagine? I guess you could imagine anything, but what is the most credible argument from your standpoint? I think you know what it is. You just don't want to say it.

I don't think we can say it. Yeah, we all know what it is. We can't say it though. Do you think Trump's on the list? Is that what you're saying? No, I mean, well, I did find it odd the timing of Elon saying that Trump's on the list. And then a day later he announced that he's launching an America party. Like he knew, it's almost like he threw a peremptive strike at Trump.

He knew that, that Trump's administration was going to fumble the release and now he's got all the people on his side again. That was a pretty smart move. But everyone thinks that he's a puppet of Israel. That's what people think. That's the only argument I've seen online. Well, Epstein is. Trump is or Epstein is?

Or both of them are? They're saying Trump is being controlled by Israel. He just was given the Nobel Peace Prize. He was nominated by Netanyahu yesterday. Yeah. So your thing is he wants that Nobel Peace Prize and he might have to protect a few things to get that. I don't know if he cares about the Nobel Peace Prize, but I mean, I just find the timing odd.

You know, those influencers after the binder, some of the same ones were invited to a private luncheon when Netanyahu under Chatham House rules and they were never allowed to talk about it. And then, you know, the Iran thing happened, Trump kind of fumbled that and now people kind of forgot about that. But now I'm seeing more backlash than ever before. I've never been able to post anything without MAGA people coming for me.

Today was the first day where I didn't have a single negative comment talking about Trump. Like they're all pissed off about the Epstein files. And my understanding, you're a moderate, right? You're sort of, you're just a reporter, you're moderate, you don't have a position, okay. And I feel like there's no list. Why would a guy who has a clandestine

sort of set of videos essentially, which is really what people think there is, the only list he would have would be from the aircraft because they're required to maintain a list of who goes on and off the aircraft. Yeah, I think that's, yeah, he's not writing a list. Yeah, but the list of the aircraft is not a sign of guilt. I mean, you or I could have gone on Epstein.

You know, see, if somebody invites you on a plane, I know people that have been on that plane. Let's go, okay. And do they have concerns that they could be outed in some way or that they're when or that were they involved in something else? Okay, I understand what you're saying. Okay, so say there's no list, then why did they tell us there was a list? That's the problem. Pam Bondi should have never said the list

was sitting on her desk. Now she's trying to backpedal and say, I didn't mean it. She's the one that said it. We're not the ones that were like. I 100% I agree with that. Why, what? I agree with that. And I agree with, yes, that these are the two big points in my point of view is why that, why all the fanfare around list when there probably is no list.

And then why a man committing suicide that has zero problems according to Dan Bongino, zero concerns. He has nothing to worry about. And, and or let's flip that around even. Why would somebody want to murder him then? Forget he didn't, okay, he didn't commit suicide. He's murdered. Or is he really dead?

Yeah, I have a theory, guys. Oh, Caleb. I have a theory. I was wondering, I really wanted Caleb to chime in. Yeah, so you remember whenever- He's exposed to a lot, Natalie. He's exposed to a lot of conspiracies think about this So remember a month ago whenever I was saying that the diddy trial looked like a show trial because they went after a rico case

They were never going to get and they were trying to just make a show of it He has to be punished for something that's what the public wants So they're going to give him five or six years and then it's going to go through I I my theory I I look, I stop looking at their words and I look at their actions. Everyone is acting like Epstein is still alive and in witness protection right now. That's how they're acting.

It's, he's off somewhere. They don't, they have no story that they can construct with everything they've all said. A lot of the people in power right now were podcasters and show hosts before they got government jobs. They built this up really big because it gets lots of views all the time

when they would talk about the Epstein stuff. And then these guys get in there and then they see the truth. And they're like, what, we don't know, we can't tell anyone. And what do we, that's my assumption. You have gone with me to Washington and met the people that round up the social media folks.

Oh God, Drew's nervous, Drew's nervous he's going to get kicked out of the White House round up the social media folks. You met them. Oh God, Drew's nervous. Drew's nervous he's gonna get kicked out of the White House. No, not those guys. We haven't met any of those people. We didn't meet any of those people. We didn't interact with them. What do you mean?

What do you mean? Those are the ones. Those are the social people, but those aren't the people that have actually read the documents and have access to it like Dan Bongino. Look in this guy's eyes and there's a change in him. As soon as he got access to all of these documents and saw the real stuff. He has built up a whole audience.

Let me flip it around again. Let me flip it around again. Let's say Dan Bongino and Cash Patel have been exposed to a line of reasoning that shows them that world order or world peace or something problematic could be exposed if they really come out with this stuff. Wouldn't they be, wouldn't you want them to lie? I want them to lie in that case.

I would expect them to, that's their job to do that. But look in their eyes and you can see this, like especially Dan Bongino. Don't do that. He's told the truth. Don't read anybody's minds. No, don't read his mind. But there's a big difference in his personality

and the words he uses from before whenever he could say whatever he wanted and after whenever he had access to the real info. But that's also the case if you if I went into government I would change my old five too. You're stuck. You know you have to. I think Drew you sound like you want to go into government the way you're operating this podcast right now.

It sounds like you're ready to run for office. The way you're. No I am. I am trying- The discrediting, the conspiracy theories. Shh. No. I am, I am really trying to get through the truth. I'm really interested in the truth.

I mean, you were right about the Diddy trial. I have to give you that. You were right about the Diddy trial. Oh, listen. And you did, I don't think you saw the tape that we rolled going into this thing. We had Paul Alexander, he was a famous, he was a scientist, very, very well-trained scientist

who was in HHS, and he told me two years ago, he said, he goes, the deep state, the bureaucrats are running everything and they think they know better. And I was just blown away, I couldn't believe it. Public servants not serving the public will, blew my mind. And then I said, you're going to need somebody to come in here and rip rip this apart and a vice president

that backs him because this is going to take a while. And he and I were just spot on about what has been uncovered and what I keep hearing about what's just under the surface and watch, I'm hearing it on the Department of Justice side, I've got a bunch of friends there. I'm hearing it on the HHS side, I've got a bunch of friends there. And I want the government to serve the public will.

Anyway, I digress. The point is I'm kind of interested in the truth right now. And I'm finding that- I don't know if we're ever going to get it. And if we do get it, we're not, people aren't going to believe it because say they are telling the truth. Say like what they said was true.

No one's going to believe that because it's not interesting. People have, their imaginations are far more interesting than whatever Pam Bondi and Trump just told us. People want to see Oprah on the list. They want to see, you know what I mean? That's, they're not going to be happy until the people they hate go down.

So they're not going to believe it, even if they were handed the truth on a silver platter, they're not going to believe it anyway. So at this point, it's all just a show. So as two moderates, what do we do with this? How do we get people to sort of, you know, I don't want to say kumbaya, but how do they get them to sort of calm down?

Listen, Susan and I have been- Trump shouldn't have told people, he shouldn't have made this big promise that he couldn't keep. Did he make that or did Pam Donnie make make that he can't it was in his campaign Like that was part of the reason a lot of people voted for him is they were like we're gonna finally get the Epstein files So now for him to say I By the way, I do believe we're gonna get something I really believe it I think I think I think I feel like I'm gonna make a prediction

I feel like we're moving through something now where these officials are lying with Intention they almost like want you to know they're lying because they they're doing something Systematic and they will let us know on the other side when they can that's what I'm that's my bet We'll see we will see well, that's yeah I think they're going to, that's the only way they can really steer the ship. They have to give us something because they have lost a lot of the base

and people are too riled up. Too many feathers were ruffled today. But anyways, I'm going to go write my list, my list of people I hope are on it. Your Epstein wish list. Everybody has one. Everyone has an Epstein wish list, just like they have an Amazon wish list. There's people that wish we're on wish list. Everybody has one. Everyone has an Epstein wish list, just like they have an Amazon wish list.

There was people that wish were on the list. Put me on it just to create a stir. Put Caleb on it too, just he was there with the camera. I put Susan on it. I put Susan on it. That's funny. I put Susan on it, that's so funny. She wishes I was there.

But the reason I actually really want you to do is because- Out of all of you, Susan probably would be on it, right? Out of all of you. Yeah, the least suspicious. She might invite it. That's so funny. Out of all of you, Susan probably would be on it, right? You've known me, my wife, for a short period of time, but you clearly understand her. So good job. I actually want you to put her name on a list because I want to watch how these things evolve. I want it to use a little experiment, see how these conspiracy theories develop and where they go. But what I'm thinking about right now,

before I let you go, is Susan and I got addicted to Love Island, I blame Kat, Tim for this. Well, more Susan got addicted than I. And they kicked a woman off two nights ago for using a... Derogatory. A derogatory, I wouldn't call it a racial slur, a derogatory descriptor.

Oh, I saw that, I saw that. Okay, right and I've heard it from, I've heard that word from my Asian family members. So I know it's used a lot and it's, but they're not, they were not Chinese though. And so Chinese people took exception to it, and I understand. Yeah, and the fact that she had to be canceled,

I want our world to evolve to a point where she can be held to account, she has to apologize publicly to the extent that everyone is satisfied, and I want it to be cowardice, cowardice to just remove people from existence. That is a disgusting move. You cease to exist. That is what the Soviets did.

That's what the Chinese do. You disappear people. We should not do that. How do we get there, Emily? Get me there. No, I agree. I saw it at the Ditty trial. They were trying to cancel the influencers that rubbed baby oil. Even though they did a great job the whole trial, they made one mistake in 15 seconds.

And it's like, we need to allow people to make mistakes. We're going to keep- And make apologies. We should be good at apologies. We should be, I'm trying to make apologies wherever I can. I model apology. It's a good thing. Adjust, learn.

But silencing people, that is a, that is talk about fascism. That is Soviet era shit. And we need to stop and we need to shame people that do it because it is disgusting when they do it. And you should be ashamed of yourself when you do that stuff. I understand the impulse and again, express yourself all you want for, you know,

somebody using something that you don't like by all means. And to be fair, there are things that are, you can cross over into zones where people should be canceled. I get that. But just canceling everybody because the network takes a little heat, they're cowards.

They're cowards. And they should be outed for that. And people should stop watching the networks for being cowards not for allowing Somebody to make a slip that they didn't even understand was a slip. So anyway You're trying to cancel a violent No, I'm trying to I'm trying to make the network listen to listen to the American system They're the ones that cancel everybody. I know better than trying to take down Love Island

because people are addicted to it. They're making money. Somebody over here is addicted to it. I'm just saying. Yeah. They're making money. But there was more. She'll be on the list at Epstein Island.

True. There was more to the story. There was something about a Chinese run OnlyFans that she was a part of, that maybe she had pictures of herself, not naked or anything, but when she was underage. Did I send that to you, Emily? But it's some kind of a... Well, look, if a network has real liability, by all means.

It's like Pandora's box, but it's weird that she used a derogatory Chinese thing and then she's involved in some, I don't know, the whole TikTok thing just totally freaking out. And let me be clear, I am not in any way defending derogatory terminology towards my Chinese colleagues and friends. It's ridiculous. But we've gone too far with this disappearing thing that we're modeling strictly after Soviets

and the Chinese Communist Party. So let's stop it already. But also remember that if it is something like that, of course we have empathy towards the Chinese immigrants who are used as slaves and whatever. Oh, most people don't even know. They don't even know what happened with the railroad. That was brutal.

And also just, you know, Chinese Americans have to fight for movie roles and they have to fight for, you know what I mean? It's like, but a little comment made by a girl who's in a nail parlor talking about Botox is. Yeah, she didn't know what she was saying. I don't think she, she was like, she didn't even know anything was,

the way she wrote the post, she didn't even know there was anything wrong with it. No, she had no idea. It ironically rolled into a big ball of wax and there's other stuff going on with this Chinese organization. So I don't know, there's more to the story, I think. Night Call says she's Chinese or he's Chinese. Let me know what your thoughts are because you obviously couldn't address it more than myself, but I mean, what percentage

of our friends are Chinese? We live in Southern California. I mean, it is a, it is, it is, I mean, we are, everybody's there. Chinese people are great. It's a lot of Asian folks. It's just their government kind of stuff. I have Cambodian friends, I have Asian friends. Oh, you guys are, you guys are,

your guys are digging yourself a hole. No, I love them. Okay, anyway, but anyway, so finish us up. I don't have any home with Chinese people. What's coming up for you with Epstein? What should we look forward to going forward? Other than Susan Pinsky being on the Epstein list, which I am hell bent you should put her on the list. I think we'll never know what's happening.

Every day. I want her to follow Prince Andrew. Prince Andrew, Susan Pinsky. Just put her right in there, okay? So people do not miss her name. Right under Prince Andrew, you got it? Yeah. Susan's number two.

Yeah, I don't know, I think every day this administration is giving us some chaos to look into. So I was worried that if I got back to LA, I would be bored and have nothing to talk about, but here we are, and I already made three videos before 10 a.m. today because this administration is just the gift that keeps on giving. Well, I think as long as you keep your sense of humor

and stay moderate, you're going to have a lot of stuff to think and talk about, because it just is, it kind of becomes fun at a certain point and interesting. So keep doing what you're doing. At Emily knows everything, Emily with an IE, not with a Y. Is there an Emily with a Y who knows everything too? Not yet.

That's one that doesn't know any. You better get that quick. Yeah. Caleb, help her with that. And we will see you, I guess, back home, back in LA, is that correct? Yeah. All right, see you guys in Pasadena, bye.

Appreciate it, bye-bye. We are in New York right now, that's why we're saying back home. Okay, so what we shall do now is take a little break. I want you to pay attention. These are all people that support us. I'd mentioned Paleo Valley. Of course, they are very interested in regenerative farming

and I mean, all it's all about, they just do, they have educated me about a lot of the importance of this stuff and how much it can be done and why we're not doing it is sort of mysterious. I mean, I get their giant business interests and whatnot, but we should be really supporting more of what Paleo Valley represents. Same thing with regenerative fish farming

that Chef Gruhl talks about if you want to follow Andrew Gruhl on Twitter, that he definitely is gonna ask somebody to follow about all this stuff. And again, don't forget the V-Shred MD products. They are way to live longer and better well. I am a big believer in fighting oxidative breakdown of our cells and we now have ways to do that

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which is the other big thing. Lift weights, everybody, resistance training, the key in aging. It is probably more important than anything else. Debbie Lerman here with us up next. We'll be right back. The wellness company knows that taking charge of your family's health care is a top priority and that's why they're constantly innovating to deliver the

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She has been with us before, Debbie Lerman. She has a new book. I'm not miss speaking about that. Her book is The Deep State Goes Viral, Pandemic Planning and the COVID Coup. There's so much to be said on the COVID so-called response. Here's something that you can learn, which is that the media and public health agency whipped the population into levels of panic, massively

disproportionate to the actual threat posed by the virus, which was something I was saying from the beginning. Debbie, welcome back. Welcome to the program. Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Drew. It's great to be here. Welcome back, welcome to the program. Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Drew. It's great to be here. So talk to me about the book and what, I feel like, I'm laughing because I feel like people wanna move on from this and people like you and me

don't want to move on from it because we must never forget and we must understand thoroughly how this happened and how to remove the forces that could allow it to happen again. Yes, I agree with you completely. And I know people want to move on and I know they're tired of hearing about COVID. And that's why I didn't even put COVID

in the title of the book. So, The Deep State Goes Viral is really about what are the power structures that were in play that made the COVID response possible and what is happening with those power structures now and what are they continuing to enable. And that's what I like to focus on. So, we can talk about the details of COVID, but that's what I like to focus on. So we can talk about the details of COVID, but that's not as interesting to people anymore. What's really interesting is to me, and I think should be interesting to everyone. And I hope it's interesting to people who read the book is what, how is our world structured right now?

Who's in charge? Who's making the decisions and are they in the best interest of us, we the people, or are they in the best interest of the deep state, which is what my contention is here in the book, is that most decisions that are being made on our behalf right now are being made by a conglomerate, which is the deep state. And I can explain that if you'd like. Well, I do want you to, but I want first to sort of shine a light

on this one issue that I've been worried about, which is the very discipline and function of our public health officials and system, both in terms of how they're trained, how they look at the world and what they're empowered to do. It all seems completely out of line, every element. And it runs exactly contrary to medicine as I understand it. And somebody told me that explicitly, I forget who that was on the show,

that the public health mandate runs contrary to the mandate of the practicing physician, which is take care of your patient. And as such, there's infinite potential there to do harm, because they're not interested in people's wellbeing. They're interested in some weird collective something. I don't even understand what their actual point of view is really, because it should be a carefully honed judgment

based on the care of the individual and protecting those who are job, it actually is to protect the individuals, the patients in question, but public health is not. So tell me about that first. What has run them so far amok? And why so many physicians with public health degrees? I noticed that happening in the nineties.

I was like, why do you need public health training? You're practicing medicine on the, why do you have that after your name? What did it do? So it became very popular also, but go ahead. Well, unfortunately, like everything else in medicine in this country, public health has been completely corrupted and co-opted by commercial interests,

by pharmaceutical companies, by conglomerates of hospitals and insurance companies. So public health used to be a really tiny, really unimportant, not unimportant, but you know not something that people would ever hear about small. And as far as taking care of things that public health takes care of that are important are issues that affect the health of people in a group that might not be able to be addressed by individual practitioners.

So water, hygiene, things that have been solved pretty much a long time ago. So there's not a lot left for public health to do, except address things like infectious disease. Infectious disease is also not a big deal, but at all. It is not a big deal right now with hygiene and with modern medicine. But what happened was that public health merged

with biodefense. And that's what the book is about, partly, which is that the COVID event was not a public health event and the response was not a public health event and the response was not a public health response. They were both the result of the takeover of public health by the deep state, which is- That has been Sasha Latapova's contention.

I think she said it was DARPA. I forget the organization. Yeah. I'm sure you're familiar with her point of view. Well, go ahead. So Sasha and I have worked a lot together and we put out a huge report called the COVID dossier, which documents the military and intelligence, basically control of the COVID operation worldwide.

And- So, what I'm not understanding is, because they didn't come clean about it anywhere, we haven't yet come clean about it, are they held to some sort of covert standard? They were asked to some sort of covert, you know, standard? They were asked to keep it under wraps? Or were they just fearful that they were going to be

in trouble because they were a part of this whole thing? Or do they not know they were part of it? How does that work? Who's they? Who are you referring to as saying? I mean, I'm referring to like public health officials, you know, people that were, you know, people whose totalitarian impulses were acted out

upon the public, particularly in California. Okay, so there are layers to this story, right? So you're right about public health officials taking really great advantage of this situation in order to become super important and dictatorial in many cases. And I would say that those are instances in which the system just encouraged people to do that and people seize the opportunity to get as much power as they could which I think is normal and a

system, a good system, the way a system should operate is by giving people as much power as they need to do their job and not enough power to destroy other people's lives. But what happened with COVID is the system was, there was no democratic system in effect at all during COVID. So everything was suspended. We were in a state of emergency. And when we're in a state of emergency, everything was suspended, we were in a state of emergency. And when we're in a state of emergency, that's when things can go awry. And we are still in a state of emergency. So we are still in the state of emergency for COVID, not officially according to the HHS, but officially according to the PREP Act, which is the law that governs medical countermeasures, which is the vaccines. So we are still in

an emergency until 2029, believe it or not. That is something that the Secretary of Health and Human Services can end if he wants to today. And then we are also, Donald Trump, our president, has declared more states of emergency than any other president ever, one of those being state of emergency for energy. Because the AI industry, which now I'm going to show why the deep state goes viral is relevant far beyond COVID. Because the deep state, which is a merger of intelligence

and the military industrial complex, Wall Street and Silicon Valley and just the entire media. And they operate in kind of an extra legal, extra constitutional space when there's a state of emergency. And so they can get a lot of power and a lot of resources and a lot of money through all kinds of activities like the ones that they carried out during COVID.

And now it's the exact same thing. It's an exact parallel is happening right now with AI, where we're in a state of emergency for energy. Doesn't make sense to me, because I don't think that we are actually having an energy emergency. But the emergency that we have is that they need to build tons of

nuclear plants really fast, and they wanna do it without any regulation, and they need to build tons of nuclear plants really fast and they want to do it without any regulation and they want to not be able to have the communities stop them where they want to build these nuclear power plants to power their AI. So we're in a state of emergency. President Trump said the day after he was elected, he went, or a few days, he went to the World Economic Forum and said, well we didn't think that we could do it, but now we did. Now we have this beautiful state of emergency and we can build whatever we want. So that's the deep state.

So that's these financial, military, banking, and business interests, all gathering together as one would expect them to do, you know, in their own interests. But the point is that their interests are not our interests and we aren't stopping them. What do we do? How do we, I mean, I, you know, this administration claimed to be going after the deep state.

Now you're showing how they're participating. What do we as citizens need to do? First of all, let's be aware of what's happening. I would say it's really important to distinguish between the deep state and the administrative state. So the administrative state is the bureaucrats. And we can all agree that it's bloated and that it's inflated and that, you know, there's

a lot of waste in the administrative state, but that's not the big problem. You could have cut HHS, CDC, you could have cut the entire public health apparatus by 50% or 75% and COVID still would have happened exactly the same way that it happened because they were not the ones who were calling the shots. They were just the ones who were enacting what the real deep state. So the deep state which is not the administrative. Do we know who was calling the shots? I can give you long lists of names but they won't mean anything to you because it's not Fauci. Fauci was one of many many many. He was mostly the public-facing guy

who was supposed to convince everyone that this was actually a public health emergency and we had to follow the science, but he was representing something completely different that had nothing to do with public health. And why would the PREP Act cause people to be so alarmed at this virus that they supposedly knew about and would understand it wasn't that profound a risk

or was it something about it that could have posed a more serious risk? SARS-CoV-2? Yeah. You mean? So I don't know. So SARS-CoV-2, obviously we're still debating where it came from and what it was. And my contention and mine and Sasha's contention actually is that

it doesn't really matter where it came from, whether it was naturally occurring or from a lab. I think it was from a lab. But And some people think it didn't exist. And some people think that it was just a hoax. It doesn't really matter, because once they decided that there was a state of emergency and that this thing, whatever it was, posed a national security threat, which they declared, they didn't declare to the public,

but they declared in private on February 4th, 2020. February 4th, 2020, there were no deaths and there were barely any cases in the United States of America. And there were like a few hundred cases worldwide. And they declared that it was a national security threat. At that point. This episode is brought to you by Adidas. When the frustration grows and the doubts start to creep in, we all need someone who has our back to tell us we'll be okay, to remind us of our ability to believe, because their belief in us transfers to self-belief and reminds us of all that we're capable of. We all need someone to make us believe. Hashtag, you got this.

We all need someone to make us believe. Hashtag, you got this. It suspended the entire legal structure that normally protects us with regulations, with oversight, so that they could do Operation Warp Speed. And they did Operation Warp Speed through, as you mentioned, the EUA and the PREP Act. The PREP Act gives total legal indemnity to anyone who does anything, manufacturers, transports, touches, administers, advertisers, medical countermeasures, when we're in a state of emergency for bio weapons. And that's what they declared legally was happening with COVID.

So whether they thought it was dangerous or not, I don't know, but I know that they activated the legal framework as if it was a bio weapon. And once that legal framework was activated, we no longer had any protections at all and they rushed these things. Yeah, I'm aware. And then when this was activated,

I again, I'm sort of going back to who, is this, are these military people that activated it? Is it, where did it kind of come from? Was it Francis Collins? And was it activated on behalf of protecting the people who were involved in the bioweapons program? And was it activated on behalf of protecting the people who were involved in the bioweapons program, or is it activated because of some special knowledge that these people had and they were doing it out of,

you know, just cause? So I don't like to speculate as to motivation. I just like to tell what they did and what the effects were. I don't know if they were acting on good faith or not I believe they were not acting on good faith as far as my interests were concerned because they definitely Did everything to ruin my life my children's lives and the lives of all my fellow citizens, right? and so What they were doing I believe was on behalf of behalf of this, and it's international, it happened

in every country the same way. NATO was involved, which is frightening and shocking. And they did it on behalf of these giant business conglomerates, banking interests, and military intelligence, all alliances. And so it's hard to, I can tell you names that you've probably never heard, because those were the people who were deeply involved. If you look at the COVID dossier,

we name names in every country of people who are involved in the deep state operation. That ran operation. Was it hard to uncover this? Uh yes. Interesting. Because it's hard to uncover because all of the meetings and the decision making around COVID starting in January 2020 shifted to the National Security Council and became classified and that happened not just in this country but in every country so FOIAs have been going I've been pointing the government for

two years now unsuccessfully to get some of the National Security Council documents and it's also very difficult because unlike you, Dr. Drew, who are very open-minded and want to talk about these things, most people don't. And the mainstream media, so YouTube and places like that are heavily censored. Sasha Latopova, if you mention her name on YouTube, you're probably gonna get taken down.

Perfect, perfect. Yeah. What needs to be done? What do we do and what's the plan going forward? Do you have one? So well, that's difficult. We're facing these really, really ginormous forces and structures that have been put in place over a long time.

And so I would say the plan is number one, read my book going on. Be aware. Number two, when you hear that there's a state of emergency or anything, be skeptical. Ask yourself who's benefiting from it and what laws are being suspended in order for this state of emergency to enable various activities. And then number three, act in your local community to try to counteract the more global forces that these giant deep state conglomerates are sort of unleashing on us. It's not going to be solved in my opinion. The one pushback, the one pushback I would give you is that in my experience,

the local officials were the ones that were more enthusiastic than anybody in terms of the excesses. At least that was the case in Southern California. Their behavior was outrageous and nonsensical. And, you know, and, and were any, any attempt to raise an issue was met with a force that I would expect from a totalitarian regime. How dare you question our authority was,

and people were harmed because of that, those excesses. So it was not without danger and it was not coming from the federal government. I hear that. It was enabled and encouraged by the federal government. And then they took it and ran with it because they're little tyrants themselves, right? So the little tyrants came out

in whoever has a little tyrant in them, right? And the little sadists, the little masochists, they came out during this. It also seems to me we need to really get clear on how people were hurt by this and those people need to be held to account. So just my last question though, is do we need to dismantle something?

How do we come out of this? How do we, other than what you've said in terms of, go ahead. We need to dismantle the deep state. How do we do that? I have no of this? How do we, other than what you've said in terms of- Go ahead. We need to dismantle the deep state. How do we do that? I have no idea, but first people need to be aware of what the deep state is before we can dismantle it. So if the Trump administration promises

to hold the intelligence community to account and doesn't do it, then they're already not fulfilling the promise that we hope. So dismantling the intelligence community exposing and Being transparent about the role of the intelligence community in many things not just what you were discussing before which is interesting Which is the Epstein and all of that much huger things which they were involved in which is co vid Which is all the wars that were involved in which is

Just getting more and more money and power into the corporate, right, into the corporate and sort of military industrial complex and into Silicon Valley and the tech complex. So that's where all the money is going right now. And if we could make laws, right now I believe that our 99.9 percent of our elected representatives are already bought by

The deep state but if we could get oh, that's why I say local is important Let's get rid of those little tyrants that you're talking about. Let's run for office Let's elect local people who aren't going to do that And then from there, let's move up as much as we can on to the national level But I think that right now our national I don't feel very confident about my interest being represented by my elected officials That was the that was Alexis de Tocqueville's observation in 1820 the local practice of democracy is the reason democracy Alexis de Tocqueville's observation in 1820, the local practice of democracy

is the reason democracy worked in America. And I don't know if you saw Elizabeth Kucinich, who was just here a minute ago, she was talking about something very similar as it pertains to the agribusiness complex. It sounds like the same stuff that you're talking about. Exactly, that is exactly the same thing that I'm talking about.

They are taking over, we need to protect small farmers. We need more young people to go and be farmers. We need to protect farmland. It's really, really important. Let me ask you this. It feels like the impulse of the young people is to centralize things more, get more authority and take over the means of production, all that nonsense.

How do we get them to understand the power of individual freedom and doing things yourself, not wanting the state to do it for you? This is really at the core of the problem. That is at the core of the problem. You're absolutely right. I think, I always think about that. I think about if my kids are older,

they're in their 20s now, but I think what if I had young kids right now, and you know what I would do first of all I would keep them out of the medical system and then I would probably keep them out of the education system and I would probably My kids did go to a cheap parent-teacher Cooperative type school and I that's what I would do

I would create a cooperative with my neighbors in my community to educate the kids exactly about what you're saying, about independent, self-sustaining communities. That's what we need. Well, Debbie, always great to talk to you. I advise everyone read the book, The State Goes Viral. Let's put it up there again if you don't mind, Caleb.

And it sounds like something that we all should, deep, the deep state goes viral. We should all be very, very, very aware of what's going on here. I don't know, I hope we can do something with it. I feel like COVID is an opportunity, as wild as it was, it exposed us to all this and it opened us to, who would have known?

My God, I would have never known, you know? And I'd like to, I'd love to see a history of the deep state too. Like where did this all really get going? Is this the 20th century phenomenon? Is it a 19th century phenomenon? How did we get here? And maybe that would help us figure out ways to dismantle too.

Yes. Those are great questions. And I think some people are working on that. And I think that's a really good area to explore. Refer me to those people. Thank you so much, Debbie. Appreciate it very much. Thank you so much for having me.

You got it. And I want to be sure to give you Debbie's particular where you can find her, which I don't, I think I neglected in doing that. But as Debbie was talking about the people that need to be educated off the grid, I think I have a representative right here on the program with me, Caleb.

Oh me, yes. You're one of those people, were you not? I'm the one that was educated off the grid. I felt like you were leading to me with that. Yes, I was educated off the grid. I hear off the grid and I perk up. Yeah, it's me. And is it a good thing?

Is it, does it help you see some of the stuff? Positives and negatives to it. There, it was great. Before you don't want to give, let me give David, Debbie's particular, then I'm going to let you say that with the positive. Debbie is Debbie Laramie, D-I-B-B-I-E-L-E-R-M-A-N at dot substack.com.

And that's all she wanted was the subsection. So yeah, so tell me the disadvantages. The of having no friends, that's the disadvantage. When you live, I was down a long road then 15 minutes down another dirt road, then you don't really meet people. And the people you meet, they're all, well, not all of them, but a lot of them are there

for a reason, just like we were. I mean, we were weirdos. So we were surrounded by other weirdos, you know? It was interesting. But it did teach me how to be independent. And it also taught me to not trust what the government tells me all the time. So I think that's what she's looking for.

And then to think for yourself. But you were not really part of a local cooperative. So you kind of were, weren't you, with the educational part? Not really, no, because we weren't really part of any homeschool co-ops, and it was all just me and my four siblings and my mom off on a farm 15 minutes down a dirt road on a raw land and a house that my dad basically built half of.

It sounds like exactly what Debbie was talking about, like perfection. Now, think about, nowadays, though, it would be much, much different, because nowadays we have things like Starlink and Homeschooling is a lot bigger. You'd have a lot more co-op. Yeah. Yeah, it's not like the early You know Wild West days where it's you know We're all wearing our matching denim shirts and pants and and you know, it's not like that anymore Homeschooling is a lot cooler these days. But yeah, it really did.

That's the positive is it really made me look look at just government and influence and any public figure as there are another human being. And we are the ones that control the food supply anyway. We're the farmers, we're the people with the animals. If things go bad, all of these important people are going to be rushing in to try and get what we have with, you know, our dirty fingers working in the dirt all the time.

So I learned that, you know, all that stuff. Yeah, I learned it's interesting. Yeah, it's, it's, it's like everyone needs to go back to the time of Cincinnati's. If you know who that is, that the returning to the farming in some fashion seems to be to the earth and to, and there's a lot of movement out of return to the, at the crafts, what is this called? Where you can build things and you have,

I'm damn it, to quarrel. Fighting and crafting. Plenty about this. No, no, no, no, no, no. The, what would be like, you know, Oh, trades. And trades, the trades. Oh yeah. Get back to would be like, you know, group playing and the trades, the trades, get back to the trades.

Oh yeah. And we really reinforce the trades and train people in the trades and get back to the trades and sort of back to basics is what it all sounds like to me, but I don't know. Yeah. I feel very overwhelmed by it all, I must tell you. Well, and it also,

I'm glad we're talking about it. It also makes you think about how, you know, people that aren't in your little circle, like we were very you think about how, you know, people that aren't in your little circle, like we were very, very traditionalist, you know, splinter group Catholic homeschoolers off on a side. But if someone came in to take the rights away of like the nudist colony that happened to move in across the street from my parents' farm,

my mom and my dad would actually call in and defend the rights of those people to do what they wanted because they knew, these are very different people, but if they come for their rights, they're going to be coming for our rights next. And so I learned a lot about that, especially with, you know, the Waco story. I grew up as a child being told all about the Waco story and what happened there where my parents were just like these.

This is not a religion or a group that we would ever be a part of, but the way the government handled it, they're going to, if we let them get away with this, they're going to be coming after all of us next. So defend your enemies from government oppression. I agree with that. And the impulse these days seems to be to empower government to do more centralized, give them more centralized authority. And I am mortified by that.

I'm just looking at some of your comments on the rumble rant. Here's a super, what do you call them? Super whatever, super chat. If truly disheartening, but it appears that the system is propped up by pillars of pedophilia. If this is the case, it needs to crumble.

I'll be an accelerator on that one, okay. Looking at your other comments. Bill Barr's dad employed Epstein. That's interesting. As a teacher at a school, Other comments, Bill Barr's dad employed Epstein. That's interesting. As a teacher at a school, that's an incredible piece of data. Casey, you're gifting me lots of things.

It's much appreciated. Casey Gates is there live and well. And let me quickly go over to the RESTREAM. Yep, Desi is saying, teach the useful trades. Listen, and there are tons of groups of underprivileged or underserved communities that could get these extraordinary high hourly rates and union membership and a pension.

Oh my God, there's a way out here that if we let people do it, look in Southern California, we're trying to rebuild entire cities. And they are saying that because of the ICE raids, some of the Hispanic community is fearful of going out onto the work sites. Tremendous opportunity for so many other people.

Tremendous. Go out there, train, be an intern, find a way out. They need manpower. Go out there on the site, it seems to me, humbly. Okay, let's put up what we got coming up here. I think we just got raided by Salty probably, because I see a lot of Reez and, or Ice Raid.

Ice Raid. Oh, Viva Raid. It's Viva, yeah, it's a Viva Raid. Thank you, Viva people, thank you Viva. Tell me what you learned there at Viva Show today. I'm watching the Rumble Rants right now. We appreciate the raid very, very much. But tell us what's coming up, Caleb. We're just sort of wrapping up there in Viva Show today. I'm watching the Rumble Rants right now. We appreciate the raid very, very much. But tell us what's coming up, Caleb.

We're just sort of wrapping up here, Viva people. Viva's one of my favorite people. What's coming up, Caleb, in terms of the schedule? Does the, you guys aren't saying anything, you're just raiding away. There we go. Leila McElway tomorrow, she is going after, very interesting story about going after Pornhub

and particularly the things that are up there that people want down, that they were sort of put up there against their will. Phil Wegman, guest me to turn Jenny McCarthy on for the 17th. We should have her all set up, it's still going. Kennedy, Kennedy Nation, of course. I don't think she's going to be in Gupfeld tonight, but I will be there with Jim Norton and Kat.

Maybe I did see that it could be Kennedy tonight. Wait a second. Give me one minute to check that. And I will tell you if I'm seeing Kennedy tonight or not. Well, I'm not going to get it quickly enough. Caleb, do you see anything on the raid we're getting from Viva's people? Do they have any comments or question there

that we should be addressing? A lot of reeds. Lots of reeds. Of course. Hold on a second. Mike Castillo, thank you. Drew, do you have to run now? Well, I got to go to Gutfeld, yeah.

But I'm telling you, the guests are, no, it is Kennedy. Oh, it is her. It's Kennedy and Jim Norton. So I thought I saw Kennedy's name on there. So I will bring up the fact that she is going to be with us. Why do you want to know if I have to run? Should I hang out and talk to people? I wanted to show you something that was funny.

So do you remember, you never called me. I'm not that big of a hurry, so go ahead. You never called me after seven o'clock my time, except that one time that you did a couple weeks ago because something was like blowing up in the studio. So now my son, who's three years old, when I go put him down to bed, if my watch lights up, he thinks that Dr. Drew is calling.

And so my watch recorded this, listen. I got a source. I get, you call Dr. Drew, source. I can call Dr. Drew. And you have to call Dr. Drew. I have to call Dr. Drew? Yeah. You're so so kind, but this is Dada's phone. Call Dr. Drew on Dada's phone.

That's so cute. Now, every time, every night, he's like, you got to call Dr. Drew? Dada, call Dr. Drew. Does he remember meeting us? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, it's so funny. He runs in my office after nap, and he's like, you got to call Dr. Drew, Dada, call Dr. Drew. Does he remember meeting us? Oh yeah, oh yeah. He runs in my office after nap and he's like, are you talking to Dr. Drew?

And he points to your face up on the screen, Dr. Drew? Oh my gosh, he is so cute. Well, we'll have to come visit again. I love that. Your community is amazing down there by Mobile Bay. Okay, everybody, we appreciate you being here. Tomorrow the time is back to, let me see, make sure it's back to normal, yes?

I see it as two o'clock Pacific, right, normal time. We're going to have two shows this week because I have to do something for Newsmax on Thursday and then go to West Virginia to visit my friend, Tim Poole. He's going to be talking about the capture of psychology, which is kind of a really interesting topic to me. People I know are in training right now, and it's sort of astonishing how the actual training

and the function of a psychologist is being subjugated to all these other issues that, I mean, yes, they're important, but they're not, they shouldn't be subjugating everything else, the actual training of being good psychologists. All right, let me quickly look at you guys from the VIVA. All right, well, VIVA, thank you for celebrating us, but we're just at the very end here.

You guys missed a great show. I suggest to you, if those of you that came over from VIVA is go back and look at the recording because it was really, really interesting today. It's all about the deep state and what they've been doing to us. You'll like it. See you tomorrow at two o'clock Pacific.

Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here.

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