Ask Dr. Drew - The I-Word: Dr. Pierre Kory (FLCCC President) Says Fraudulent Study Killed Millions w/ Dr. Kelly Victory – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 225

Episode Date: June 4, 2023

This episode features three physicians but we are not allowed to type the full name of “the i-word” on most social platforms because it would put our entire channel at risk of being banned. Why is a medication that’s been used for decades so controversial? When did life-saving medication used by millions become “horse paste”? Dr. Pierre Kory – FLCCC president – joins Dr. Drew and Dr. Kelly Victory to discuss his upcoming book “War On Ivermectin: The Medicine That Saved Millions And Could Have Ended The Pandemic.” Dr. Pierre Kory is president and cofounder of the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC). In late 2020, Dr. Kory was a witness for a US Senate hearing that accused health authorities of covering up the effectiveness of alternative treatments for COVID-19. Follow Dr. Kory at https://twitter.com/PierreKory Dr. Kory was previously on the show on Nov 16, 2022: https://youtu.be/Z3Xanmd-akI 「 SPONSORED BY 」 • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 WITH DR. KELLY VICTORY 」 Dr. Kelly Victory MD is a board-certified trauma and emergency specialist with over 30 years of clinical experience. She served as CMO for Whole Health Management, delivering on-site healthcare services for Fortune 500 companies. She holds a BS from Duke University and her MD from the University of North Carolina. Follow her at https://earlycovidcare.org and https://twitter.com/DrKellyVictory. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Warning. I've got this condition where I don't feel pain. You're a superhero. This is how intense Novocaine sounds. Oh, wow. Imagine how it looks. Say it more. Yeah, big time. Novocaine, only in theaters March 14th. Welcome, everybody. We are, of course, here on Wednesday with our friend, Dr. Kelly Victory, and we are joined today by, again, by Dr. Pierre Corey. He, of course, is the former chief of the critical care service, medical director of the Trauma and Life Support Center at the University of Wisconsin. He has a new book he's going to tell us about, amongst other things. He's also the FLCCC president.

And his book is War on Ivermectin. I think he and Kelly share some similar views on that. And I've got some questions with him, something we got into last time about academic medicine and publication. But we are working on getting Twitter spaces set up. There appears to be something on the Twitter side this time, so we'll keep working on that.

But we are with you as always on Rumble Rants and the Restream, so we'll look for you there. Just right after this. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath after this. treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. you can spend thousands of dollars trying to look a few years younger or you can skip all of that hassle and go with what works genucell skincare genucell is the secret to better skin in fact you

might have witnessed the astonishing effects of genucell during a recent unplanned moment on our show when just a little genuCell XV restored my skin within minutes right before your eyes. That's how fast these products work. I know I'm a snob about the products I use on my face. Everybody knows it. Every time I go to the dermatologist's office, they're just rows and rows of different creams. And then when I get to the counter, they're overpriced. All kinds of products that you can all find at GenuCell.com. Susan and I love GenuCell so much, we've created our own bundles so you can try our favorite anti-wrinkle treatments, correcting serums, and ultra-retinol creams. Just go to GenuCell.com slash Drew.

Use the code Drew for an extra discount and free priority shipping. Again, that is GenuCell.com slash Drew. G-E-N-U-C-E-L.com slash D-R-E-W. And of course, you can follow Dr. Pierre Corey on Twitter, Pierre Corey, last name is K-O-R-Y, and Pierre Corey on Substack and D-R, Dr. Pierre Corey, K-O-R-Y.com. Also, F-L-C-C-C.net. And just a reminder, again, he's former chief of critical care and medical director of trauma at Life Support Center at University of Wisconsin.

Please welcome Dr. Pierre Corey. Thanks, Drew. Nice to see you. Thanks. Good to see you, my friend. So this has been an interesting arc across which I've been speaking to you. And last time we talked, I was really, I don't know if you remember, but I was really sort of baffled by the way academic medicine had been behaving. And I'm still a little baffled by it. I mean, more has come to light. But I'm increasingly interested

in what happened with medical publications. You know, I'm used to medical literature going back and forth in the literature. The literature sort of arrives at a conclusion. It doesn't all go one way. But during COVID, everything went one way. And so I knew there was something wrong with the literature. What happened? And are you a little optimistic that things are going to normalize a bit? Yeah.

I mean, I got to tell you, Drew, that question to me, from everything that I've learned in the last three years, I have literally come to the conclusion that the entire war on repurposed drugs, ivermectin is only one of them, right? That's not the only one they attacked, was fought with the most powerful weapon was the high impact medical journals. That really was the tip of the spear. And, you know, what happened with those journals is, I mean, you watch their behaviors.

And in my book, I document all of this, right? So one of the most powerful disinformation tactics, right? So disinformation, which was actually invented by the tobacco industry back in the 50s, it's literally the tactics used by industries when science emerges that's inconvenient to their interest. And one of those tactics is named after American football players. It's called the fix. And the fix has three actually different versions of it. So one is conducting and publishing trials with predetermined results. Check. They did that six times in COVID. In fact, I have a chapter called The Big Six. Those are the only ones that hit the airwaves,

the newspapers, and they were all published in high impact medical journals. There are actually 95 controlled trials that nobody's heard about. You'll only hear ones that hit, you know, drove those headlines. So one was they conducted fraudulent trials. The second is in terms of generic off patent repurposed drugs, they censor any positive reports. So I have another chapter where I share emails with investigators all over the world who studied ivermectin, and they have a stack of rejection letters, even like top quality trials. Rejection, rejection,

rejection. And they were actually all commiserating, saying, where can we publish, guys? We can't get this information out. And so one was the rejection and retractions. And Drew, you know part of my history. I mean, our first paper on Ivermectin, which got published, if you look cumulatively at the amount of years in academia myself and my partners have done, it's probably 130 years, over 1,500 peer-reviewed publications. For the first time in our careers, we had a paper pass peer review and get rejected at the editor level. We've never, ever seen that. And so it's really the censorship and propaganda at the level of the high impact journals, I think did the most damage because that's where the world looked to for the truth, right? I'm using my air quotes here. And when the truth that gets presented in those journals, right, which is these are the most highly regarded journals in the world, like, drew my transformation when COVID started, like,

like you talked about, like reading medical literature, you know, I kind of always knew that the hidden hand of pharma was there, I thought they were on the edges, you know, maybe manipulating a trial or hiding a little data here or there. But now, from what everything I've learned, I mean mean they control those high impact journals what appears in those journals is what they allow to appear in those period period end of story and so interestingly yeah i i have i have shared your concern and i i brought this up with rfk jr and he said his first day in office he's going to call in the editors of these major impact journals and tell them that they need to solve their editorial problem, or he's going to prosecute all of them under a RICO act. And I thought, wow, that, that caught my attention. It's like that,

it is sort of a RICO situation, isn't it? Go ahead. I got to tell you that in the book, you know what the term I use for those editors of the Heineberg? I call them the editorial mafia. That's literally the term that I used in my book because they acted like a mafia. I mean, they were in lockstep. They knew what they were doing. I mean, a memo went out. I mean, they got orders from up high, you know, do not publish positive ivermectin data. And the actual trials that were submitted to them, you know, I'm using air quotes again, high quality, rigorous, double blind, placebo controlled, right? There's five or six of them. There's really six. You know, there were so many problems with those trials. Like if I had done one of those trials,

never would have seen publication. It would have never passed peer review. They were pulling shenanigans like changing endpoints in the middle. You know, they were like making sure the control groups, especially the trials in South America, they literally were allowing control groups to get ivermectin. So it's very hard to prove that ivermectin is better than ivermectin, right? And I mean, it was astonishing what we discovered in those trials now there's something i i have noticed that i think is very interesting i i speaking of the tip of the spear i think the the first rung on the ladder of not to mix all my metaphors up here but the pendulum swinging is annals of internal medicine i don't know if you've been watching them

but that's one of the journals i read every regularly and uh in fact i'll be honest in recent years they've not published a lot of stuff that that you know really was very useful to me the way some of the other ones are but i read it and they published the danish study on masking everybody else turned that down and they were the one that published it and i thought that caught my attention because there was so much excitement around that study that we were going to find out masks finally find what the deal is with masks new england journal passed actually canceled it jama canceled it like in other words they were going to publish it and then cancel the publication and then annals did so because of course it was a negative test as

so they've all been into mass mass masking mandates do not work not saying that n95 can't protect you if you wear it perfectly but mask utilization does not work number one number two two weeks ago a journal came out in annals actually i actually tweeted the volume number and everything because it was so astonishing to me had three or four articles that were finally something completely different that i'd seen the entire pandemic including one that showed that fluvoxamine with budesonide worked and worked rather well in the early treatment of mild to moderate COVID. Did you catch that article? Oh, yeah. I think that is a change.

I think that is a change. That one, in the same journal, they questioned how we were recording vaccine efficacy and safety. And just made a simple publication on how to organize a study with sort of match controls since it's all underway already be easier for them to do they just make this case that we should be doing these match control studies and there was a third article too in there that can't remember what it was it didn't it didn't stay with me as much but again was again a different direction everything had been going in one direction and now it's oh direction, which I'm used to in medical literature. Things, you know, sort of going back and forth until a consensus is reached. I think animals may be the leading edge of the change.

I'll be interested when the next one comes out. Keep an eye on those guys. They seem to be honest players. I think I'm going to say, Drew, I think you're more optimistic than me. My cynicism now. Okay, maybe not. It really has no bounds. I've been defeated and I'm just demoralized.

But I do think that there is, and I like what you said, right? There's never, even in a drug that works, there are negative studies and positive studies. The preponderance evidence will give you the signal, but it never like uniformly one side you can't science isn't that reproducible we know that there's a reproducibility problem in science and and to hear that everything you know around the vaccines is safe and effective it's it's like yeah that's yeah you're right only safe and effective let's remind ourselves that the medical literature is still has an active engagement around SSRIs and whether there's a net benefit there. Statins, is there a net benefit there? These are routinely commonly prescribed medicines for which there is a consensus,

and yet still the literature comes around and it takes a good look at whether we're really doing the right thing or not, which is how it it works and some of those studies suggest otherwise and that is medical literature that's that's what we're used to seeing and think about it three years in the major is not seeing a single a single study that called into question anything other than what can only be called dogma and uh i don't know does academic go ahead finish your thought i want to make a couple of bigger points on that because you're really onto something here so you know for instance this morning this is what i woke up to i i had a colleague send me a paper it's a systematic review and meta-analysis of the performance of the vaccine in pregnancy. It's in Nature Communications. And my jaw dropped. The conclusion of this paper

was that they were abundantly safe, highly effective, and they even claimed that the vaccinated cohort had 15% less stillbirths. I had never seen such raging propaganda as I saw this morning. So propaganda is alive and well. The other point that I want to make is when you talk about things like statins and SSRIs, so this anecdote that I say is, you know, for my book, what really actually motivated me to write the book is after my Senate testimony on ivermectin, I spent the next three months really confused, Drew. I didn't know what was going on. Like, I literally thought we were putting out really good science that was incredibly important for the world to know.

My review paper had dozens of studies and health ministry reports, and we had overwhelming evidence of efficacy. Yet within two days, I got a hit job in the Associated Press. They went after me. They went after my organization. And then I just see all of these attacks on ivermectin for three months. And then what happened was in early March of 2021, I got an email from this professor. His name is William B. Grant. He's one of the most published researchers on the science around

vitamin D. And it was a two-line email. And wrote dear Dr Corey what they've been doing to ivermectin they've been doing to vitamin D for decades and then he included a link to the disinformation playbook and then I when I read that article and I saw the tactics it was like a click like a light bulb went on and like suddenly the world made sense again like I realized that myself and Paul and our organization had launched ourselves right into a middle of a decades long war on repurposed drugs. But the point I want to make is about vitamin D is that, you know, Drew, like you mentioned around statins, like we're still trying to sort out, do they work? Are they helpful? Is there a net benefit? Here's the problem. When

you look at the history of studies around any particular therapy, if you look at the literature on vitamin D, it is so polluted with pharma-conflicted trials where they start the doses of vitamin D too late. They use the wrong formulation, wrong disease, trying to go for the wrong levels too low. When you actually see systematic reviews on vitamin D for any number of conditions do you know what they conclude is that there's really no evidence of benefit because the entire body of literature is literally polluted i mean i i would say that the biggest threat to pharma is vitamin d i think they know very very well that higher not only are higher dose higher levels safe

but they there's a massive evidence that it reduces the incidence of any number of diseases, including cancer and infectious illness. But if you read the medical literature, Drew, that's not the conclusion you're going to reach because you're going to see so many negative trials. And so I got to tell you, I'm a little lost. I'm a little estranged as a physician now. I don't really know how to read medical literature. I'll tell you one trick I use is I start with the conflicts. And if there are obvious conflicts of interest with pharma, and by the way, most big randomized controlled trials are done by pharma conflicted researchers. So you don't get to that level where they give you the keys or the steering wheel of a large funded randomized controlled trial unless you're already in deep with pharma.

And so I look at the conflicts and I refuse to believe any paper where the investigators clearly have conflicts of interest with the compound being studied or in terms of ivermectin competitors to ivermectin. So one of the most glaring examples is the NIH when they finally slow walked and got around to doing a trial on ivermectin and COVID, who did they choose? They chose a woman from Duke, Susanna Nagy. I think the grant was like $140 million or $40 million. And if you look at her conflicts, she literally owns stock in a monoclonal antibody for Omicron, which at the time was a direct competitor to ivermectin.

She gets fees from Gilead and Remdesivir. That trial has the most brazen example of data manipulation. It's literally in the paper. They literally have to admit that they manipulated the data, but no big newspaper articles around this, no outcry from physicians. Nothing. And we have tried to attack, for instance, the other big trial, the Together trial. A whole bunch of us researchers wrote a scathing letter to the editor telling them that they have to retract that paper. There was just too many brazen inconsistencies, manipulations that were obvious.

And that letter to the editor was rejected. They're not going to publish it. They're leaving these studies up that people cite as truth. I'll give you an example, Drew. Before we came on today, a friend of mine, I guess, was looking at comments on your chat page and someone said something really nice about me. Then someone underneath just simply said, large, double-blind, randomized control trials have shown ivermectin not to work. That's how it works. They put those big trials in the big journals, and people accept them as dogma.

And then they batter me over the head with it. Like, I don't know how to read medical literature, or I don't know how to judge the efficacy of a drug. It's tiresome, and it's really, really sad. Dr. Pierre Corey is with us here today. We are going to bring Dr. Kelly Victory in here in just a second. Again, Pierre Corey can be followed on Twitter, KRY, and the sub stack, Pierre Corey, and drpierrecorey.com. We'll be right back and joined by Dr. Kelly Victory in just a second. A lot of you have been asking for more information about how to counter the adverse effects of the spike protein from COVID infections and the COVID vaccine. The spike protein is not your friend.

Let's just say that. So I'm glad we have the wellness company Spike Support Formula as a sponsor, especially since renowned internist and cardiologist Dr. Peter McCullough, who's also chief scientific officer of the Wellness Company, is one of its champions. There's some very intriguing research around natokinase, which might be a way to take on the spike protein. Listen to this. So start, if you would, with talking about natokinase, how you got to that, and where you see its application. So with the viral infection or the vaccines, the spike protein stays within the body and it's found in the heart, the brain, the vital organs, and it's causing problems.

The Japanese have been using this for heart and vascular disease now for 20 years. It's safe. It is a form of a mild blood thinner that it dissolves the spike protein nearly completely. Spike's support formula is the only product on the market containing natokinase, dandelion root, and a host of other antioxidants, all showing promise in helping you protect yourself and your family. To order this unique, specially formulated supplement, go to drdrew.com slash TWC. That is drdrew.com slash TWC. Use code Drew at checkout for 10% off today. I recently discovered Paleo Valley. They have a line of products that align perfectly with the paleo dietary regimen. Goodbye to the limited rotation of eggs, burgers, and the standard fare. Hello to a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious.

Paleo Valley offers a spectacular range of options, including 100% grass-fed beef sticks. They're packed with nutrients like omega-3 fatty acids, vitamins, minerals, glutathione, CLA, and bioavailable protein. Plus, keto-friendly, make for a great protein-rich snack on the go. Paleo Valley's tasty beef sticks are not just 100% grass-fed, but also grass-finished, sourced from small domestic farms in the U.S. and flavored with real organic spices. They're also fermented, which means they contain natural probiotics that are great for gut health and they taste amazing. Try them out by heading over to drdrew.com slash paleovalley to get 15% off your first order today. Don't miss out on this opportunity to discover a brand that is perfect for your paleo lifestyle.

President Trump recently issued a warning from his Mar-a-Lago home, quote, our currency is crashing and will soon no longer be the world standard, which will be our greatest defeat, frankly, in 200 years. There are three reasons the central banks are dumping the U.S. dollar, inflation, deficit spending, and our insurmountable national debt. The fact is there is one asset that has withstood famine, wars, political and economic upheaval, dating back to biblical times, gold. And you can own it in a tax shelter retirement account with the help of Birchgold. That's right, Birchgold will help you convert an existing IRA or 401k, maybe from a previous employer, into an IRA in gold.

And the best part, you don't pay a penny out of pocket. Just visit birchgold.com slash drew for your free info kit. They'll hold your hand through the entire process. Think about this. When currencies fail, gold is a safe haven. How much more time does the dollar have? Birch Gold has an A plus rating with Better Business Bureau and thousands of happy customers. I do not give financial advice and previous performance is no guarantee of future performance. Visit birchgold.com slash drew to get your free info kit on gold. That is B-I-R-C-H-T-O-L-D.com slash D-R-E-W. Some platforms have banned the discussion of controversial topics. If this episode ends here, the rest of the show is available at drdrew.tv. There's nothing in medicine that doesn't boil down to a risk-benefit calculation.

It is the mandate of public health to consider the impact of any particular mitigation scheme on the entire population. This is uncharted territory, Drew. As we welcome Dr. Kelly Vickery. Hey, Dr dr. Corey so happy that you could join us thank you you have been an unbelievable warrior from the beginning of this debacle and I'm really excited to read the book before I say I've got gobs of questions to ask you because it's been a long time since we've done this live but I'm going to start where you and drew left off um you said something that is almost mirrors what i've said over and over again which is somebody died and made me king i would have the journals have to

post the conflicts of interest above the title of the of the study of the article uh in a journal to decide whether or not i even want to read the damn thing. I, like you, have become really, really jaded during this three and a half years. It's been exhausting and debilitating. I used to pride myself in being that physician who went to the source or what I considered to be the source. I went to the journal. I wasn't lazy. I was intellectually curious. I read more than the abstract. I'd read the whole article and I'd formulate my decisions and my thoughts based on reading the study. Now, fast forward, I feel like somebody just said, oh, Santa Claus isn't real, Kelly. All of a sudden, I just found out that the whole thing was a big fat lie.

And I'm not ignorant enough or naive enough, perhaps, to think that this is the first time it's come to light for me during this COVID pandemic. But my entire medical career really now has been called into question. Everything that I've done, prior to this, I considered as outspoken as I've been about the disaster of these COVID vaccines, I would have considered myself very pro-vaccine previously based on my understanding of this, quote, the studies, your old air quotes, the studies, the research. Talk about that piece.

This didn't just start with ivermectin and vitamin D. How deep do you think this goes? And what do we as physicians do with this? So Kelly, I mean, everything you just said, I think those words have come out of my mouth. Same thing. I mean, this transformation, this exposure the the deep rot and and iron fisted control over the medical literature of pharma is it's truly been very disorienting like i i really

don't even know what to believe anymore and then like you said when going when you go back historically so so the opinion that you just articulated and i kind of did earlier you know i want to make the point, this is not new. Like these opinions have been held. And my favorite example that I uphold is Dr. Marsha Angel, right? So she was the chief editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, the number one highest impact medical journal in the world, 20 years. She stepped down from her post in the year 2001 because she couldn't take it anymore. And then she wrote a book. And in that book, so this is 20 years ago, she's trying to sound the alarm that the literature

has been captured. And that's 20 years ago. And now, forget it. Now they have media, major media, you know, so their ability to censor and propagandize is, I would say, 10 times what it was in 2001. But it starts at the source, which is the published medical literature. It's really hard. All the things for so many years we've been told doesn't work, especially around vitamins.

Vitamins are a sensitive issue to pharma. They do not want you to take simple, over-the-counter supplements that could actually prevent you from getting ill. It's really quite scary. They don't care. I mean, they traffic in disease. They want people to be sick. And it's such a terrible thing to say.

Who are these people that actually wants the population to be sick? But the way they behave, you cannot arrive at any other conclusion that it's a good business model. Right. Well, they're not only... It's not only a war on repurposed medication. They're actually talking about regulating now those over-the-counter things like vitamins. They want to actually regulate, in other words, make vitamin D something that's only available by prescription in order to keep it out of the hands of people who would otherwise uh be treating themselves so talk a little bit you know go ahead no no i just love

that point i mean like i'm the thought that popped in my head it's like i'm gonna have to get my vitamin d from the black market now like the guy on the corner who's got the you know last shipment of vitamin d and like and when you think about right, so that's an example of the immense control that they have. So they control the legislator, right? So in 2021, they,000 in one year per congressperson on Capitol Hill. That is how massive their influence there. So, I mean, look at COVID. They were writing laws. They were basically telling the government to buy remdesivir, to buy Paxil. I mean, the government's sitting there writing checks.

The farmers are literally holding the legislators' hands, writing these checks for billions of dollars. And so, and then, right, so I think I've met them in this example, right? They got it removed. They got, like, the entire retail pharmacy industry to refuse to fill. They scared and badgered the pharmacists. They took it out of hospital formularies. Kelly, when in your career have you ever been told you couldn't use a medicine? Never. Repurposed medicines represent probably 30% of all

prescriptions written on a daily basis are medications that are being written for something that they were not originally designed for. 30%. I have never in my career, and in fact, I'm unaware of any anecdotal reports of somebody refusing, and a pharmacist, for example, refusing to fill a prescription, a legitimate prescription written by a licensed physician. This is absolutely unbelievable. So suffice to say, none of this could have happened without the propaganda that is the quote, storied medical literature and the fact that there's agency capture by big pharma. There's no question. Then you add in social media, the impact of social media. And I've said many times that I really do hope that the next international

crisis involves something like commodities pricing or international financial markets, something I know nothing about, so that I can argue incessantly with people who have an entire career and education in these things. These people, everybody out there with a Twitter account or a Facebook account or Instagram account is arguing with you because they can simply post that one line that they read about an article. So so social media put this whole thing, I think, on steroids because anyone could could weigh in. Yeah. So that's I mean, they're. Good. Good. As I say, your book focuses on ivermectin. And so I want to talk a little bit about that. And I'm guessing that you cover this in the book.

In your estimation, or the data that you've looked at, what would the difference have been in the outcome, not only in the United States, but globally, had they not had a war just on ivermectin? Obviously, there are lots of other drugs. Drew mentioned fluvoxamine and steroids and lots of others that you and I have used during this pandemic, but just ivermectin. What would the difference have been in your opinion in terms of the global impact of COVID? So here, Howard, I would answer that question with looking at probably the two most effective ivermectin early treatment programs in the world, both of which I cover. One, I actually devote a whole chapter to, but one is the case of Uttar Pradesh, right? So the Northern Indian state in India, 241 million people. I think it would be the sixth or 10th largest country in the world if it was a country,

right? So it's this massive Indian state. And when you look at what they did in Uttar Pradesh, so they had this massive public health committee team. They called them Team 11. And they actually got into hydroxychloroquine early. So they were using hydroxychloroquine early in 2020. All healthcare workers, they were doing early treatment with it. Then when they discovered, they felt that ivermectin's efficacy was superior, they switched to ivermectin. And they did the most aggressive program I've ever seen. I mean, they literally had, I think it was 160,000 healthcare workers visiting 97,000 villages. They did the most testing in India. So they did rapid testing, anyone positive, ivermectin. Anyone in the household who tested positive, ivermectin.

All healthcare workers were taking ivermectin and after that delta wave in 2021 six months later they continued this program and by the way the waves that hit india this is what no one recognized remember remember when like uh every headline and newscast was leading with how like india was getting completely hammered with coveted during that delta wave and people actually used that to argue that ivermectin didn't work but here's the truth about that if you look at the spikes the massive increases in cases in death it's really a sharp spike like they extinguished it quicker than anyone and particularly utah pradesh because utah pradesh is home for millions of migrant workers from the other big cities and so when

they started getting hit with delta people were afraid of lockdowns. They, they, they fleed back to Uttar Pradesh. It was a huge spike because this program was in place and they literally were, they were testing at airports, bus stations, train stations. And by September of 2021, they had done so much testing in the two week period before September 16th of 2021 in their last two and a half million tests, they had only 211 positive tests. And they had 67 out of 75 districts with not one active case. So you're talking about like the United States having like 40 states without an active case, right? It would be very similar. So when you ask me, like, how could it have been different? I'll point to what Uttar Pradesh did, and then I'll also point to Mexico City. And there's other cities.

I mean, what Mexico City did was absolutely tremendous. I mean, they literally emptied hospitals. Case counts went down, and they started seeing very little hospitalization and death. And that was from also a mass mobile distribution where they had mobile units, you know, testing and treating and testing and treating. And so in terms of sheer numbers, you know, it's hard to put numbers like how many millions would have been saved because, as you know, the numbers are inflated. Right. You know, we don't really know how many people died from COVID with COVID and PCR test. Everybody's dying from COVID. But when you look at the percentages, I mean, even in the WHO guideline document,

so when they did the review of ivermectin, they excluded all of these trials. They were just whittling down the evidence base. But the weird thing is the trials that they kept in their review document, do you know what the estimate was? It was that there was an 81% reduction in mortality. It was statistically significant. But they said this is such low certainty evidence. They came to the conclusion that the average person, the average citizen on

earth based on low certainty of evidence would not want to take ivermectin outside of a clinical trial. And so can you think about how absurd that statement is? So I like to do this like scenario. So I'm picturing a patient in bed, breathless. The doctor comes in and says, you have this decades-long, old, safe, repurposed drug. Best estimates are that it has an 81% chance of reducing your chance of dying. But the evidence is of low certainty, super safe. The evidence is of low certainty super safe evidence low certainty and then the patient answers doctor i'm not comfortable taking that medicine unless it's done within the context of a clinical trial right i mean it's preposterous right it's preposterous because because you don't

have once something is that safe and they did such a good job again the propaganda that it was horse-paced that you were somehow taking a veterinary medication with all of these you safe. And they did such a good job. Again, the propaganda that it was horse paced, that you were somehow taking a veterinary medication with all of these potential deadly side effects, when in fact, ivermectin is over the counter in almost every country other than the United States and Canada. It is taken like candy in most of the world. If you look at the entire continent of Africa, with the exception of South Africa, there's very, very low vaccination rate. They had massive COVID outbreaks and they did swimmingly because they all are taking either ivermectin for intestinal parasites or routine

hydroxychloroquine for the treatment or prevention of malaria. I mean, this is insane. So in addition to Uttar Pradesh, crazy. The data is so overwhelming. Someone like you and me, Kelly, we could do this for hours. I'd be like, this, that. I've never seen. Drew and I were talking earlier. We talked about how a lot of times evidence conflicts and whatnot. But I would argue outside of those six fraudulent trials that were published in the high impact journals. I mean, I've never seen such one side of data. I mean, anywhere you look, you have abundant data from many, many different sources showing that this thing was a COVID crusher, you know, and, and so it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's shocking.

Um, I want to make one correction to what you just said because uh the little feather in our cap ivermectin is over the counter in tennessee you know we testified my colleague paul mary testified and we got the tennessee legislature to pass a bill making it over the counter uh freeing up pharmacists and physicians from using it so i mean we we we notched a little victory there. So, um, yeah, well, let me, let me, let me ask you to clarify that because I posted this. I thought that the, the bill that was signed by the Tennessee governor said that it could be distributed by a pharmacist without a doctor's order, but that a patient still had to go through the pharmacist. So it's not, I looked at that huge win, by the way, I don't, I'm not, I'm not diminishing the win if it's much more accessible, but it's not technically over the counter the way ibuprofen is or Tylenol. You can't just walk in as a patient and get it. You've got to go to the

pharmacist. I think that's fair that it's probably overstating it to say it's over the counter like Tylenol or something else like that. But at the same time, there's a couple of little restrictions. There has to be a physician that has some sort of agreement with the pharmacy. But literally, it does allow anyone to walk into the pharmacy and come out with ivermectin without going to the doctor. You really have – and what's interesting is one of the pharmacies ships to all 50 states. So you can actually contact this one pharmacy in Tennessee, and they will send it to you wherever you are. So you're right. It's not as open and free and out on the shelf, but there's very little restriction to getting

access to it. So yeah, we're pretty proud of that. So it's awesome. And I am hoping that that will spread to other states. The FLCCC, the Frontline Critical Care Coalition, that you are so pivotal in forming, and you guys did great work during the height of the pandemic when people were really looking for treatment. Now that the pandemic is over, and let's face it, it's truly been over for probably a year and a half or two years now, what are you seeing in terms of trying to help people?

I'm assuming that you are now helping people primarily with vaccine-related injuries, vaccine-related problems, and long COVID, if you think that that's really an actual entity. Are you using ivermectin or other things, other repurposed drugs to help those folks? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's all repurposed drugs. And yes, I'm glad you brought that up. So as a nonprofit, yes, we went from one humanitarian catastrophe, which was COVID, and the lack of early treatments and all that. And, and, and then we have to deal with another, which is just the legion, the epidemic of people that are injured. And so many of them are really chronically ill. It's very similar to chronic fatigue syndrome. And we've now held two medical conferences, very well attended, huge positive reviews on them, where we presented as much evidence we could on how to approach and treat what we're calling spike protein induced disease. And the most recent one, and all the lectures are

available on the flccc.net website. We asked for a little donation, but you don't have to pay. So people who want to learn more about how we think you should treat this, or want to listen to some of the lectures can go there. And so that's one big thing that we've been working on. And then I have a private practice where that's all I do. Me and my partner, we do general medicine as well. I have a couple of partners who do that, but one partner in particular, all we do is focus on treating these patients with vaccine injury. And I'm learning so much, Kelly, but it is wickedly complex. We're finding a lot of different strategies that are effective. None of it is effective in everyone. It's a really weird thing. I can't predict who's

going to respond to what, but generally, the things that we use are safe. If there is a side effect, it's transient. None of it's serious. I am learning a lot, but boy, do we have a lot more to learn. Surprise, Kelly, our government has failed in responding. First of all, they don't even recognize vaccine injury. They call everything long COVID. But there was an audit two weeks ago. I mean, literally $1.2 billion has been spent on research into long COVID. They had apparently five trials set up.

Only one can enroll, and they haven't enrolled one patient. And guess what it is that they're studying in that one trial ready to go? Pax lovin. Can you think of anything more absurd than that? I mean, a drug with 125 different drug interactions, it's an antiviral. And how long can you use that? For most of my patients, the therapies that use i mean they become chronic maintenance daily medicines and so like i i it's so it's so predictable and upsetting and the the incidence of rebound with paxlovid in my experience is essentially a hundred percent

um i i i can't you know we call it paxlovoid for a reason um i i think it's a horrible drug and other than other than remdesivir otherwise known as run death is near um i i think it's a horrible drug and other than other than remdesivir otherwise known as run death is near um i i'm going to jump in as a as a paxlovid fan myself because the rebound uh for sure i only just i just to give an alternative point of view here um i paxlovid stops things in its tracks i mean it's i, I treat a lot of very elderly patients. And so people that are at significant risk and they, it just stops immediately. And yes, Kelly, I agree. The rebound is very, very common.

And the rebound is, is absolutely characteristic. There's this, the rumor going around that it's somehow, or this sort of, it's not even a rumor. People have been trying to substantiate it. It's somehow it's cytokine activation following the initial effect infection. There is nothing about the syndrome of rebound that approximate cytokine activation. It's highly characteristic. It's cough, productive, cough, bothersome, cough, some chest pain, sometimes, sometimes fever,

and it goes on for quite a while, but they don't get sick, and there's nothing about it that looks like cytokine activation. My point of view. Wealth Simple's Big Winter Bundle is our best match offer yet. Get a 2% match when you transfer over an eligible RRSP. For a $50,000 transfer, that's a $1,000 cash bonus. Enough to buy a fancy parka. A ticket to somewhere you don to buy a fancy parka, a ticket to somewhere you don't need a fancy parka, or just be responsible and top up your retirement fund. Plus, move any other

eligible account and we'll give you a 1% match. Minimum $15,000 transfer. Register by March 15th. Additional terms apply. Learn more at wealthsimple.com slash match. I'll tell you this, in the hundreds, if not thousands of patients that myself and my colleagues have treated, I do recall one. My partner actually told me that he had one rebound on ivermectin. I don't know if it was similar to what you described, but he did have a patient who got better and then got worse. But that's the only case I know of.

I mean, none of my patients go through what you described, Drew. I've never used Paxlovid just because we trust our protocols. They're a combination of therapy. They're safe. We know they work. And so, but here's the thing. Let me push you, push back on you with Paxlovid. So I liked that you said you're treating elderly risk patients because that's really what the data, if you want to believe that data, I don't believe any data anymore like that, but that drug failed in low risk patients. That drug failed, failed. They couldn't even complete the trial

because it wasn't working so i don't know i have a big question around correct but i haven't used it so i don't want to pretend that i'm an expert at using it um but uh i haven't just i just haven't had the need to use it um let's change gears for a second here you know when you came on and and certainly you and i have talked uh many times over this duration of this pandemic, the demoralizing impact of what's happened here and the way you explained it when you first came on is palpable. I certainly share it. a horrific last three years to see what's happened to our profession, to see what's happened to the people who were harmed by Big Pharma, to see all of our politicians on both sides of the aisle buy in. They are all owned by Big Pharma. The journals are owned by Big Pharma.

Our profession was horrible to us. Forget how your neighbor treated you or how your boss treated you or how your family members who drank the Kool-Aid treated you. Our own profession has been absolutely decimated and controlled by this. You lost more than one position. And let's talk about where do we go from here? Where does medicine go from here? We have people losing their licenses and being chastised and sanctioned. I defended my own license seven times during the past three years, fortunately, successfully, but it is debilitating. It's exhausting and demoralizing. Yeah, and they're not stopping. I mean, they're not letting up. I mean, they're going harder and harder, you know, with these boards. I also have nine complaints at my medical board, none, none from patients, right. None from patients, just from pharmacists and physicians. Cause I'm a misinformationist. Um, but yeah, so where do we go from here? And, and

I gotta tell you, Kelly, I think there's a lot of places to go, but you can't go anywhere without an awakening. So what you discovered in your COVID journey and what I discovered, and by the way, let me say a couple other things about the book. So the book, although it does have a central section, which really focuses on all of the elements of the big disinformation campaign attacking ivermectin, the book is a bit of a biography it actually starts with i kind of describe who i was before covet you know what i believed what i thought was society and the institutions and and and then you know it kind of comes to the end after a covert journey and then by the way you know the things that i did in covet it's way beyond ivermectin i mean just the history of the flccc what our impacts was our advocacy for corticosteroids before the whole world figured that out um you know vaccine injury and so and also i was involved in in trying to call attention to the fact that this was aerosol

transmitted which you know the cdc didn't recognize for a year the who i think it took them two years and i was like first, in April of 2020, I was literally writing op-eds like, come on, this is aerosol transmitted. And so anyway, so it's kind of a journey. It's half biography journey. And then I really show what the truth is that happened with ivermectin. And, you know, as far as where do we go from here? I mean, I just think, where can we go we go Kelly until the vast majority of doctors understand what happened in COVID, which is that they were lied to. They were lied to from like 360 degrees, agencies, societies and journals, and the way they practice medicine that

you know, let's let's consider the average physician just unwitting and a true believer of faith in these institutions, right? They carried out those protocols and that guidance, thinking that this is the top level scientists and doctors in the world. And, you know, these protocols of like that tiny dose of dexamethasone with a shot of remdesivir is the best medicine we got, right? They have to realize what they did. And they have to, I think they have to come to the conclusion that they were lied to and they were led astray and they hurt people. They hurt people. And I think once they come to that realization, then we can have a conversation. Then we can talk about maybe starting new journals

where there's no pharmaceutical money, right? The Journal of Repurposed Drugs. And, you know, and I love, I love what Drew said. I didn't realize that Bobby said the first thing he wants to do is he wants to call the editors of the journals. That is so brilliant. It's like the most brilliant thing I've ever heard because literally it's that editorial mafia that literally has captured and corrupted science. And if you still have that mafia in play, you're never going to get good, objective, transparent analysis of data that we need to make good decisions, right, for our health. No, absolutely. We had that conversation a couple of weeks ago with Bobby Kennedy, and I thought his approach was great about it, because we do have to clear house and we have to expose it. I also agree with you that there is

no healing and there is no forgiveness without contrition. And that means that people are going to have to acknowledge their complicity in this entire thing, including the fact, and that's a lot of our own colleagues, are going to have to acknowledge, you know, I was just doing what I was told is not an excuse. You know, that doesn't fly. Doing what I was told or people, the people who said to me, well, I can't afford to speak out because I have a mortgage to pay. And I'm like, yeah, okay, because me or Corey and I don't have a mortgage to pay. You know, yeah, we all, in the words of John Milton, you know, virtue untested is no virtue at all. It requires, these times require you to be brave and courageous and to do what you, you know,

what your oath of first do no harm signed us up for. Let's talk about, part of the reason I think it's so important to talk about these repurposed medications is because something else is coming. I don't know what, I don't have a crystal ball. They ran monkey pox up the flagpole and no one saluted. So they said, well, that was a fail. We tried to drive people to fear with that. They started talking about Marburg virus. I thought that was going to be their next hat trick. Something else is coming. It's likely going to be another respiratory virus. All of these repurposed medications, including ivermectin,

hydroxychloroquine, talk about that. The fact that these are not virus specific drugs that you have put together in this protocol they are not a single virus specific they have application quite broadly correct yes i love that you're bringing up this issue because you are right they are trying to recreate the home run that they hit with covet i mean opening up a market of hundreds, you know, a hundred billion for vaccines and therapeutics and, you know, rinse, repeat. And you're absolutely right. I, that's how I interpret monkeypox. That was just a failed attempt to recreate the magic. Marburg, I don't know what they're doing with Marburg, but to your point, the website called c19early.org, I don't know if you're familiar with the website, but it's a group of anonymous researchers who, from very early in the pandemic, these are high-level statisticians. They know how to review literature.

They have this phenomenal website. It's a compendium of every single trial on every single therapeutic studied in COVID. So if you look, and then every therapy listed on there, and they review pharma, it's not just repurposed. I mean, they have all of the evidence for REM. That's severe and Paxlovid and all that, but they have the same meta-analysis protocol, which is how they summarize the data, put one then do their analyses and if you go there right now kelly there are 43 effective medicines against covid 43 different interventions with controlled trials and the vast majority of them have over four controlled trials right and so you know as far and that's another this is kind of the positive part, which is so beautiful

because here's where I started before COVID. Now I know you're, you're way ahead of me because you went through SARS and all that stuff, but I, I literally believe before COVID that what would, what we had for viruses was valcyclovir for herpes, ganciclovir for CMV, you know, I might be missing, you know, Tamiflu for flu, which is absolutely, that's another fraud, right? Tamiflu is absolute fraud. Basically, I had my knowledge of effective antiviral therapy rested on those three. Now I'm here three years later. You have dozens of repurposed drugs. Think about just povinone, iodine, mouthwashes, and nasal sprays.

Just that alone. Non-specific, broad antiviral. You do that, your chance of hospitalization is drastically reduced. So we have all of these therapeutic approaches now. I got to tell you personally, I'm not worried about the next one because you're right. I do think it's going to be a virus. We have really broad antivirals. We know how to deploy them in combination, synergistic combinations. I mean, I'll just say, you know, listen to someone like you, come to the FLCCC, we'll be there. By the way, when RSV and flu exploded in the fall, remember those numbers? I don't know if you remember that, but it was like October, November. We've been seeing numbers of flu and RSV and you

saw a lot of RSV in adults. I'm going to tell you, FLCCC, we were pretty quick and we came out with a protocol for, uh, for flu and RSV. And one of the things that was on it was nitrozoxanide, which is really effective in COVID. It's an older, like anti-parasite, like you said, over the counter in Brazil, widely used in Brazil. Uh, we use that, we used, uh, elderberry, uh, as well as ivermectin. So we kind of had like a, were trying to address the the spike in rsv and flu um obviously the media attacked us you know no evidence and all that stuff there's actually a phase three randomized controlled trial of nitrozoxanide and flu and it's positive and so

anyway to your point there is stuff coming um if they if they do choose an infectious illness which is a virus, highly transmissible. I want to talk a little further about that, a little further about what comes next. Because we have, I think you're both aware, we have this world of pandemic ink. Professionals and professional organizations that are just there to get paid and prepare for the next pandemic, a giant hammer waiting for a nail. And we have the culture of medicine now such that to be able to be thinking autonomously or behaving to what your professional judgment suggests is the best interest of your patient is suddenly become anathema to the practice of medicine which i as i listened to our conversation today i feel like that's the big shadow hanging over both of us that all of us which is you're not

allowed to use your judgment the only people left using their judgment are surgeons because nobody can get in the surgical field with them and start to dictate what they do. And believe me, if insurance companies and other resources could do so, they would. But surgeons are left free to use their judgment. But we now are the cognitive medical sciences, as we call it, have now giant infrastructures over us. And what comes down from on high is thus sayeth the Lord. How do we, I mean, what has happened here? This is what COVID revealed to me more than anything else. How do we manage that part, Dr. Corey, of what we've learned about our profession? So you nailed it, Drew.

I mean, so first of all, right, we know that over the last 20 years, right, medicine's become corporatized right it's huge massive health systems they have top-down protocols any physician on staff you're going to do what they say and what they say not to do and then so i think peter mccullough said this i mean literally the physicians united states who saved the most patients were the private practice physicians the community-based physicians outside those systems because because there is still some autonomy. So we have these refuges, right? So private practice is number one. Number two, we luckily in this country have a system of compounding pharmacies. And in my experience, almost every single compounding pharmacy I've ever used in COVID has been sympathetic and

supportive of the use of repurposed drugs. Because I've talked to people in Europe, like've talked to people in Europe, uh, like in Switzerland. I mean, there's no such thing as a compound pharmacy, by the way, here's, you want to know the best evidence that ivermectin works is that one colleague in Austria told me that one 12 milligram tablet on the black market was 50 euros. How do you get 50 euros for something that doesn't work? But to your point, Drew, so not only that, but then I practice right now. I'm actually practicing under the jurisdiction of the Crow Indian tribe, which formed using federal statute, something called the First Nation Medical Board. And so I don't have – I'm not under the jurisdiction of any, any state. Um, as long as the patients who come see me join the tribe and my patient is a tribal member, that relationship and that practice of medicine is protected, uh, under that, that authority. So we talk about parallel systems, right? So that parallel system of medicine, I'm almost afraid to talk about it

because it becomes successful. You know, they're going to shut it down. They're going to pass legislation and they're going to go, they're going to come after us. Right. And, but I do think that there's, if there is an awakening, if there is a reckoning, talked about a contrition or people realize that they were lied to, and this was one big fraud. Um, I think there's a lot of places we could, I mean, like I said, we can open up some journals, try to rid the conflicts of interest from taking over and, and, and restoring autonomy. Here's the last piece of evidence that I will tell you that in this war, not only was a war of information, but it was really a war by the pharmaceutical industry. All of those top-down federal level actions from like

Federation of Medical Boards, all of the state medical boards, there has been pushback in this war and that's at the state legislator level. So there's a webpage on the Federation of State Medical Boards, which is a legislative map, and it shows in every state, every active bill that's COVID related. And if you actually look at the descriptions of the bills across the country, I would say 90 to 95% of those bills listed are all in terms of allowing physicians to prescribe repurposed drugs, freeing up pharmacists to fill those prescriptions, and really just restoring the autonomy of physicians to use their judgment.

I will say that it hasn't been a total loss. There is a pushback. I think it's at the state legislator level because the feds have been captured. And so, you know, that's one of the things that I've committed to is I'll go to any state, any state legislator and try to testify in support of that legislation because that's really the last line of defense. I mean, we have to protect ourselves. Yeah. Although I shuddered a little bit today when I discovered, I thought this was actually apocryphal, but I tried to check it out. It looks like it's true that you're both, I'm sure, aware what the World Health Organization is organizing to perpetrate.

And just today they put a North Korean on their board and in the UK, an active communist on the behavioral committee. So in terms of threats from on high, they're coming from many different sources. This is an ad from BetterHelp Online Therapy. We always hear about the red flags to avoid in relationships, but it's just as important to focus on the green flags. If you're not quite sure what they look like, therapy can help you identify those qualities so you can embody the green flag energy and find it in others. BetterHelp offers therapy 100% online and sign up only takes a few minutes. Visit betterhelp.com today to get 10% off your

first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com. I'll tell you, let me tell you something, Dr. Takori. In 2009, I wrote an article when we were looking down the barrel of the passage of Obamacare. And I wrote an article predicting that in an ironic twist of fate, the American Indian tribal nation was going to take control of one sixth of our economy, that being healthcare, because as long as we practiced on sacred tribal ground, we could practice outside of the bounds of Obamacare. And that tribal nations, in the same way they have opened casinos and resorts, could open entire hospitals where physicians like you and I could go and practice outside of the restrictions that were going to be Obamacare. Now, fast forward, we're seeing that with COVID. And there is a way, a parallel system that can be built.

And I think physicians didn't get where they are. They didn't get through all the education because they weren't free thinkers and they weren't capable of thinking outside the box. So it will be very interesting. And Drew, with regard to the WHO, again, I think there's going to be a workaround. Despite the fact that we have powers in this country, we'd love to hand our sovereignty over to the World Health Organization. I suspect that there are a few of us still standing uh who don't intend to uh abide by that one yeah you're way ahead of the game you saw this coming and you saw some of the solutions that's really cool i like that well you guys were kind of yeah we're just sort of drifting on to, to the, the, uh, the, uh, end here. And, uh, I know Dr. Corey has to get a flight to another

country, uh, imminently. So I want to give him a chance to get out of here, but we do appreciate you coming in here and chatting with us. Um, uh, I, I am all about, you know, we all don't agree on everything, but I, I, I just all about the open discourse and I've had share everyone's concerns about the medical literature. Something was wrong and I think it's correcting herself, even at least not, you know, not to the degree that we would all like to see it fully corrected, but I, I'm a little bit optimistic that I'm seeing something that looks like publications that uh

are sort of in the ordinary uh dialogue i hope you're right i guess it's very good yeah i do too the question is i don't know what i've been wrong about i mean with cove that i know i i but what things in the past 30 years what what dogma, what things have I believed that actually aren't so? And I don't know how to get to the bottom of that. I need to reassess where I stand on lots of things, including, not the least of which, our routine childhood vaccines and things of that sort. Because I don't know where I've been wrong right now. And that's a scary position to be sitting in. I got a short list for you, Kelly. Statins, SSRIs, childhood vaccines. I know I'm missing something else, but

when you go back and start doing deep dives on that, it is astonishing what you learn. And so anyway, but I get it. And to be fair, let me just say, our clinical judgment has value. And you mentioned statin SSRIs. I'm familiar with the back and forth literature there, but I think I know what I'm doing with them. And I know how to give informed consent to patients. That's what's important that my year, decades of experience has informed me in spite of the adulteration of the literature. The problem is we need the literature. We need that dearly. We need it. But our, our clinical judgment has meaning and it has been marginalized so much by the, just like I said, with the surgeons in the

surgical field, it's their judgment, their experience they're relying on to make, decide what to do when they're in a situation that is not what they anticipated. The same thing in medicine. And unless that is valued and supported. I thank you for saying that because I've been screaming that point for years. As an educator in medicine, I ran a training program. I've taught residents. I've written textbooks.

I have been really troubled over my career with this evidence-based maniacism, which literally discounts clinical experience in judgment for physicians. Basically, the underlying message to evidence-based medicine is that no doctor can determine what is effective without a large randomized control. Nothing is more absurd. Nothing flies in the face of the history of medicine. And so thank you for saying that because, you know, we can gain knowledge and, you know, intuition and set, like, we know how to treat patients i don't need jama to put some trial in there to tell me what works or not i can figure that out not only that not not only that i have been through if you've been practicing along if you'll go through experiences

where dogma women's health initiative where we were told we are no better than which doctors if we didn't comply with the women health initiative turned out to be completely wrong or standard of care pain is what the patient says it is they should get 60 to 100 tablets when they walk out of the er pain controls what the patient says it is here's the data all that was total bullshit and at the time it was evidence-based and and and held up by every regulatory agent and professional society. It was all bullshit. And no one ever said sorry for that, by the way. And God knows I suffered through some of the same stuff you guys are going through in this experience back then with all the regulators and the professional societies coming down on me like a ton of brooks.

It's in the nature of this biological thing we're trying to manage. It's not a computer program. It's not digital. Very different. So spot on. Well, we're going to let you go. Thank you. I have one note to add to it.

Hang on, Susan. Susan, drop it in. We got censored by YouTube at the beginning of the show. Thank you. I have one note to add to it. Hang on, Susan. Susan, drop it in. We got censored by YouTube at the beginning of the show. So you guys did it. You pulled it off again. We're officially off YouTube. But we are on Rumble. I want to say hi to everybody who ended up over on Rumble.

What's up here? I don't think you're surprised at that, Kelly. I mean, you knew that was going to happen. I mean, you guys were like advertising that I'm coming on. Now, then I want to recount an anecdote. Matt Taibbi did an interview with me maybe a year and a half, two years ago and did an okay job. I thought he missed a few things. But in the article, he called me the ghost of the internet because wherever I go, people get demonetized, deplatformed.

I'm like, I'm like such a public bandit. I'm like public enemy number one. I mean, just anyway, you guys knew the risks of bringing it on. And so it is what it is. Wear it like a corsage, Pierre. In this world, getting censored is a badge of honor and means that you're a truth teller. You truly have been a warrior. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

You are indefatigable. You're courageous. And you've been a great leader. You've been a great, great leader during this past three and a half years. And so thank you for coming back. Have a safe trip. And we will look forward to reading the book. Pleasure and honor. back have a safe trip and uh we will look forward to reading the book pleasure and i will say we'll say goodbye to everyone and we'll see you tomorrow at three o'clock and we will be

uploading the entire episode later in one piece because it is in a couple of different pieces right now and and also thank you everybody over on Twitter Spaces. I had to reboot that three times. And then, you know what? Bad PR is good PR. That's all I can say. Well, and tomorrow we are speaking to Ramya Gender, who's also a little bit of a phantom on the internet. And he has some long-coded protocol.

And there's a possibility it won't be on YouTube. So just make sure you go to Rumble or one of the other platforms. And a friend of mine who suffered a severe vaccine injury is going to tell his story. So you can hear what that's like for people that have that. Oh, good. Okay. All right. We will see you all tomorrow at three o'clock. That's good. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky.

As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me,

call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.