Ask Dr. Drew - “Thucydides Trap”: Ex DHS Advisor Exposes Xi Jinping’s Hidden Threat To Donald Trump – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 625

Episode Date: May 21, 2026

A high-stakes showdown is brewing behind closed doors between Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping. Citing the historical concept of the “Thucydides Trap,” Xi recently issued a not-so-veiled threat to the United States. Former DHS advisor Brad Thayer joins Dr. Drew to expose what really happened during their recent meeting, why this should be Trump’s final face-to-face negotiation with Xi, and how America must hold the Chinese Communist Party accountable. Combat veteran and mental health advocate Kelsi Sheren, author of the upcoming book “Do No Harm?”, exposes the terrifying expansion of Canada’s Medical Assistance in Dying (MAiD) protocol. Anthony Brown and schizophrenia advocate Bethany Yeiser discuss the reality of severe mental illness on our streets. Sharing her own remarkable recovery from four years of homelessness and psychosis, Bethany explains how we can rescue patients from the psychiatric vacuum. Dr. Bradley Thayer is a Founding Member of the Committee on the Present Danger China and formerly a Special Governmental Employee in the Department of Homeland Security. He is co-author of Embracing Communist China and Understanding the China Threat. Follow at https://x.com/bradthayer Kelsi Sheren is a combat veteran, bestselling author, and host of The Kelsi Sheren Perspective. She is the author of the forthcoming Skyhorse book Do No Harm?: How the Healthcare Industry Legalized Murder, exposing Medical Assistance in Dying (MAiD). Follow at https://x.com/kelsisheren Anthony Brown is the founder and director of Coordinating & Assisting Recovery Environments (C.A.R.E.), located in Anaheim, California. Since 1999, he has provided specialized treatment for individuals with mental illness combined with substance use disorder. He holds a B.S. in Nursing from California State University Fullerton and is the author of From Park Bench to Park Avenue: One Man’s Journey Out of Homelessness. Learn more at https://anthonyhowardbrown.com/ Bethany Yeiser is President of The CURESZ Foundation, which she co-founded with Dr. Henry A. Nasrallah in 2016. Diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2007, she achieved full recovery through clozapine treatment and earned her molecular biology degree magna cum laude from the University of Cincinnati in 2011. She is the author of the memoir Mind Estranged and a TED Talk speaker. Follow at https://x.com/CURESZorg 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Hosted By • Dr. Drew Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/drdrew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We are going to cover a ton of territory today. Later in the show, we're going to get Anthony Yiser in here. She was from Cures, C-U-R-E-S-Z.org. She herself had schizophrenia, was on the street, and was effectively treated. She's written a memoir, Mind is Strange, and a great TED Talk. I suggest you take it, check it out. You can follow her on X, cures-Z.org. And also Bethany Yizer, Y-E-I-S-E-R.com.

And, of course, Anthony Brown, who have you met here before, has his own story you can follow anthony at anthony brown.com. Oh, Anthony Howard Brown. And let's see, he's have to tell it on Instagram, Brown underscore manner, which is what Anthony is working on to create housing for homeless folks. They have a story, they've been there, and they will share their ideas about how we can manage this problem. Guess what?

They're not doing a good job. Kelsey Sharon will be here as well, and she has grave concerns about the medically assisted suicide, the maid program. You can follow her at Kelsey K-L-E-S-I. Sharon is spelled S-H-E-R-E-N- on X. And she is a combat veteran and author and has some concerns. She's going to share with us. But first up, Brad Thayer comes back.

His book is called The Hundred Years War. Let me get the specific names coming out in August. America's Hundred Year War, How to Win Against Communism. I think it's a really interesting frame. it's certainly been something that has been a battle my entire lifespan, and it's nice to see that framed as a hundred years war. He has a book out presently, Caleb, when you could throw that one. Which one did you just throw up?

Did you up to 100 years war? Is that what was up there? Yeah, it's understanding the China threat. Understanding the China threat, which is what he and I are going to talk about. Let me tell you where you can find, Brad, on the internet, CDP China, CPD China, and also, So Brad Thayer on X, Brad, T-H-A-Y-E-R. He's founding member of the Committee on the present, on the present danger, China, and formerly a special government employee.

In the Department of Homeland Security, January 2021, he was part of the strategic action plan to address the threat posed by the People's Republic of China. He knows from what he is discussing this. He's also been a visiting fellow at the Magellan Magdalene College, University of Oxford. and fellow at the Better Center, Harvard Kennedy School. He's got an academic pedigree that is as long as my arm. And he'll be here to share his thoughts with you on the Thucydides trap. And if you don't know who Thucydides is, he was essentially, he was the first historian. It was a Greek historian.

And he chronicled amongst other things, the Peloponnesian Wars. And I suspect we'll hear that the trap had something to do with that. I've never heard the reference before, but President Xi used it at the meeting with President Trump recently, and to me, it felt like a threat. We'll get into that right after this. Our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre. The psychopaths start this fact. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin.

Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for a second. Where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveland all the time.

Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. You have trouble. You can't stop and you want to help stop it. I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. Behind every F-35 jet is a Canadian company. Horizontal tails built in Winnipeg, engine sensors from Ottawa, and stealth composite panels crafted in Loonenberg to name just a few.

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I can't wait to read it. Brad, welcome back. Dr. Drew, it's great to join you again. My pleasure to join you this evening. So am I getting this correctly? Thucydides was the Greek historian that amongst other things chronicled, he chronicled some of the Egyptian history and he chronicled the Peloponnesian Wars. And the first time I've heard the term Thucydides' trap uttered by President Xi.

What is that? Well, the argument is made by Graham Allison at Harvard University. And the argument is that there are certain types of wars in international politics called hegemonic wars. These are big wars. They are like major earthquakes. They kind of reshape the terrain of international politics for centuries, who can be for centuries. And one of them was the Peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta.

others were between Rome and Carthage or between Germany and Great Britain in World War I, for example. And that's where you have a rising power, a challenger, challenging a dominant state, a hegemon. And so what Graham Allison is arguing in that trap is that the challenger, the rising state, this would be communist China, is challenging the United States, which is, for Graham Allison in decline. And so that trap leads to conflicts. That tension between the Challenger, rising Challenger, and declining hegemon, is the trap that can lead to conflict,

that can lead to hegemonic war, very bad thing in international politics. Of course, it's completely misplaced. Graham really messed up in this argument, and he did so for two major reasons, Dr. Drew, one of which is, is that China, in fact, is in decline. Its economies in the doldrums, and they don't have any way out of it.

And so what President Xi did at the meeting with President Trump is insult President Trump. It was a direct attack against the United States and President Trump directly when he invoked the Thucydides trap. The United States has an economy that's got problems to be sure, but we're. We're growing still, right? We're still a rising hegemon. We're still dominant. China's looking to the United States to get itself out of its economic doldrums. That's the first big problem.

The second reasons why it's wrong is because the United States, never in international politics, have we had a situation like we have today where the United States actually invests in its challenger, it aids, it helps, it supports. communist China by having students here 500,000 Chinese students studying in STEM disciplines as well as other disciplines. The Chinese, through legal and illegal means, steal our intellectual property. And we still heavily invest and allow Chinese firms to operate, of course, on New York market. So we've never had a situation like that where the hegemon is actually helping its challenger, challenge it. That's quite a bizarre situation.

And you've been studying China for a long time. And it felt to me like Trump was really holding his cards very close to his chest when he was there, when he was talking. He did a long interview with Hannity. And it felt like he was communicating with the Chinese through that interview. did you see things in that interview or in his approach that bothered you? There, a major element with the Hannity interview was the, his remarks on Taiwan. Taiwan is a... And the students, too.

And the students. The thing about the students seemed odd to me, but it seemed purposeful. It seemed like he was doing it with intention. But go ahead. I'm sorry. Well, President Trump is conveying a... of course, to Xi Jinping, the communist dictator, that we have leverage over China. China may have, if you will, let's just say a monopoly on active pharmaceutical ingredients,

and they may have close to a monopoly on rare earth minerals processing, which are key vulnerabilities for the United States to be sure that President Trump is addressing through a variety of means. But the issue of Taiwan has become a significant one, because President Trump has not come out the way the Taiwanese would like him to say and to say that, well, the United States stands with Taiwan, President Trump, in fact, is continuing a longstanding American policy of calculated ambiguity. We don't say that we're going to defend Taiwan, but we also don't say that we would allow a communist China to attack it.

So kind of threading that needle has been an effort. And Trump continued that. It'll be very important to see what happens with the $14 billion arms deal to Taiwan, whether that proceeds ahead. Meaning whether China allows it as a result of these negotiations? Okay. Whether President Trump is conveying support, de facto support for Taiwan. He may have a policy, rhetorical device of calculators.

ambiguity, saying I may defend Taiwan or I may not defend Taiwan, but the proof of the pudding, of course, is in the eating. And if we're continuing to maintain the arms relationship with Taiwan, which we should through established practice, including Ronald Reagan's 1982 six assurances, then we'll see that de facto we're still supporting Taiwan the way, to my mind, we should, because of the importance of Taiwan for the global economy, geostrategically, and in the competition with communist China. So in terms of back, to take it back to the Thucydides trap,

you know, I was around when Henry Kissinger was doing his thing about essentially mutually assured of destruction, deterrence. The wars that you mentioned that were associated with Thucydides' trap, those ideas hadn't yet really existed and certainly that level of, you know, violence didn't really exist yet. Does that make a difference? It does. I mean, Communist China is a nuclear state and the United States is obviously as well. And nuclear weapons have had a big impact on international politics and particularly arguments about whether you could actually fight. a conflict with a nuclear state. Two nuclear states could fight. We didn't do that during the Cold War,

as you know. We had incidences, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the 1973 Yom Kippur War between Israel and the Arab states where the Soviets threatened to intervene and Nixon declared a nuclear alert. So there have been points of great tension, but we never obviously fought a nuclear war or other nuclear states like Indian Pakistan, despite many crises and difficulties, never fought. And fundamentally, that's because nuclear weapons increased the costs of war astronomically. An economist will tell you, if anything is very expensive, you don't get much of it. Well, there's nothing more expensive than nuclear war for a society. So thankfully, we've avoided that. So nuclear weapons do play a role, of course, in this logic. As you said, all of the previous cases were non-nuclear, right?

The Punic War, the Peloponnesian War, the rise of Germany, of course, at the beginning of the 19th century, all non-nuclear situations. So nuclear weapons do play a role here. And, you know, and so when you add up what's different about this than what Thucydides, what has been called the Thucydides trap, we have nuclear weapons. We have climate, decline, we have China's economy and population decline, both. and we don't have some of the what I consider some of the preconditions of those ill-fated wars the one I know the most about I guess would be the

I mean you could look at the Napoleonic war is the same thing I suppose but the one I'm the Peloponnesian war when Athens went into that they were extremely hubristic and I don't think we have hubris in this country I mean really not like that or am I kidding myself?

I don't think that we do either. And I, the Thucydides' trap argument has been, has done a lot of damage, really, as an intellectual construct, as in American policy, and also to our adversary, it's been very beneficial. Xi Jinping is employing that. He's saying, hey, America, you're in decline and I'm rising, so you better listen to me and do what I say. And of course, that's an absurdity. Again, because the Chinese are in decline and rapid decline, and we could facilitate that. If we take measures, for example, cutting them off from American investment, cutting them off from our intellectual property, denying them invidious chips, for example, and other measures.

So the argument is entirely spurious. It has a historical resonance, but it's misapplied here. It's wrongly applied in this context. The United States is the dominant state in international politics, and it remains so despite problems. We would help facilitate the continuation of that dominance if we would recognize that communist China is our adversary, our enemy, and treated as an enemy.

and that means the first rule of strategy is don't fund your enemy. Don't facilitate his rise. Don't help him out over his doldrums. So the sooner we recognize that, the better. So I want to go back around and talk about the recent meeting between the two countries. I'm guessing there was a for certain. There was a lot more going on than we know. but do you have concerns, do you have recommendations,

do you have things that stood out that were good? Where do you stand with that meeting? Well, with that meeting, there were two major points there. First, Xi Jinping is desperate. The fact that he's saying publicly, insulting President Trump and saying that you, the United States is in decline and were rising, of course, is an absurdity, and it was seen as such to President Trump and everyone in that room who recognizes the truth of it.

Xi Jinping needed that meeting to maintain his legitimacy, right? It shows that by having that meeting, he's the equal of President Trump as it's portrayed in communist media and advanced to global audiences. President Trump, I think, did something expertly. So secondly, if we look at the U.S. side, right? President Trump did something expertly.

he brought in all those tech folks right all those billionaires jing ping needs those billionaires right he needs jensen won and invidia he needs those chips and president trump is enticing him he's saying look i can bring these guys in and i can take them away if you don't behave so i thought that was that was a masterful that's right i want to say that's that's a really interesting insight because that is his negotiation style. He gives a bunch of stuff and then he uses that for negotiation. That's sort of that, I don't know that it's only what he does, but that

sounds very familiar to me in terms of his negotiating style. It does. And so it's tantalizing for Xi Jinping, right? He needs NVIDIA's chips. He needs investments to keep going. He's running a Leninist economy, and Lenin's

economies always fail. Communism has never succeeded. anywhere. The only way he has a way out is through U.S. investment. And President Trump is bringing those folks in and he's saying, hey, here's the U.S. investment. I can give it to you or I can take it away. I can give it to a little bit or a lot or not at all. So that, again, to stress the point, was masterfully done. I think we'll see, of course, how that reverberates worldwide. Xi Jinping had a follow-up meeting with Putin, in fact, going on presently or just ending. And so that was President Xi Jinping's effort also to reply to President Trump, that, hey, I have Putin in my pocket.

Putin needs me a lot more. You want to solve the Ukraine war, et cetera, right? I've got influence with Putin. So these interactions really are ongoing. and we should always expect that Gigi King will do his utmost to undermine us in international politics. Again, we need to recognize him for the enemy that he is. I'm actually feeling better about that meeting having spoken to you and how you frame it. My last question is something that's sort of many things bothering.

The World Health Organization bothers me. We opened up with a interview I did with Michelle Bachman. Drew may be having connection issues on his. completely out of control and completely different. Caleb, did I freeze during all that? Yeah, we got the last part of it, though. Okay. But I'll ask you one last question,

which is about the land near military bases. How bad a problem is that, are we going to do anything about it? It's a very significant problem. You shouldn't let your enemy have land near your military bases, right? What did we see Ukraine do against Russia last year? They used drones to take out Russian bombers in a surprise attack. That could be done here in the United States. There have been many reports about drones flying near U.S. Air Force bases, other military facilities, Barksdale,

a very important base for U.S. Strategic Command. So Dr. Drew, that's very significant. What do we do about it? Well, we need to ban, obviously, those purchases by Chinese communist officials and their front organizations. There has to be legal transparency. You can't use a cutout in an LLC or others. I'd like to see really zones around military bases where you have to have absolute transparency in terms of land purchases because it's a very significant problem. and we could be taken by surprise. In addition, we know that there are biological weapons laboratories.

We worry about that in the United States. We saw that in California with the discovery by chance, really, of a Chinese bio-weapons lab in the United States. And the final point there, Dr. Drew, is just to recognize in the open borders, when Biden had our open borders, many tens of thousands of, we suspect, Chinese military, Chinese intelligence officials entered the United States and they're still here. So it's a witch's brew of problems and very dangerous for the U.S.

I think he needs to repeat that because I... It seemed important, but I wonder if we should switch to Starlink, Caleb, is there a way we can do that? We have Starlink here too. Yeah, and that's... If you guys could do that quickly during the break. During the break, Susan, we're going to switch to, you know how to do that? Yeah, but we're in the break.

But I ask you to repeat what you just said, Brad, because Susan was clinging to each word. Okay, well, certainly happy to. The land purchases near U.S. military bases are sensitive government facilities like Los Alamos, national laboratories, et cetera, cause of great concern. we know that drones can be used against our military. We're seeing that with Iran. We saw that with Ukraine and Russia. In Ukraine's Operation Spiderweb, as they called it,

where they greatly damage Russian bombers. We know that there's a CCP, there's a communist presence here. The biological weapons laboratory that was discovered almost by accident in California is a cause of great concern. And then thirdly, the Biden's open borders allowed tens of thousands of Chinese People's Liberation Army, soldiers, intelligence agents, and others who wish us harm into the country. So land purchases near military bases, secret laboratories, and then, of course, the fact that you've got muscle. you've got these military men in the United States who could conduct covert action

against the United States on American soil is a witch's brew of trouble. We need to address that. I always wonder about Chinese robots like coming in and becoming a military against us. Well, that's the drones. That's the drones, essentially. But I mean, that's what drones are, little robots.

Yeah. That can be a problem too, right? that there are drones are one element of that, but there could be also underwater unmanned vehicles that could be deployed. There can be, if you will, ground robots.

So, you know, it's a huge problem. But the muscle is here. There's a presence here. And the fact that we allow purchases is madness. That's got to stop. Right? It's not,

the afterglow of the Cold War. It's not 1991 anymore. We need to recognize that. Well, I'm going to I'm going to empower myself by reading your book when it comes out in August. Where can people get it? Well, it'll be available on Amazon, of course,

and at Skyhorse Books. So, and thank you, Dr. Drew. You gave us a very great endorsement, so we'll very appreciative of that. And I'm sure we'll talk about that at some point in the future as well. This book is right up my alley

No, I know it is. She's been very concerned about the Chinese Communist Party for a long time. I studied it at UCLA. Yeah, and I just liked the frame. But you're, you know, the frame of the against communism. There's a lot of these days that are sort of uncandy. I'm assuming you get into that in great detail. Brad, thank you so much for being here.

We look forward to your new book and seeing you again soon. It's my pleasure. Thanks very much. Bad. All right. We are going to switch gears a little bit. Here we go. This is an interesting show today.

We're going from international politics to what? We should have done this show in a different order. We should have ended on the China topics instead of starting because every time we talk about Chinese Communist Party, the stream starts breaking. Like we're targeted. I can plug it in the Starlink right? Yeah, she's plugging in the Starlink during the break. We'll get it all up and running here. First.

I'm going to try. We're going to speak to Kelsey Sharon. She is a combat veteran, best-selling author. She is host of the Kelsey Sharon Perspective. It's spelled K-L-E-S-I, Sharon, S-H-E-R-E-N. She has a book with SkyHorse, Do No Harm, How the Healthcare Industry Legalized Murder. She wants to talk about that after this. If there was ever time to be rationally ready, it is now.

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off when you subscribe. We are such a fan of their products and the care with it to Autumn and her team. Thank you. She says I can drink it. Goes about processing and the regenerative farming, everything we sign off on all her stuff. So excuse me.

This can't sit in front of me without me drinking it. That wasn't all Dr. Drew or anything. Why would I screw myself? What am I? Dr. Drew? All right, Kelsey Sharon, as I said, you can follow her on Kelsey Sharon on X. Kelsey Sharon Perspective on YouTube. Kelsey, welcome.

Thanks for being here. And introduce us to the friend you have with you. This is my three-week old and this is what happens when your spouse is a football player in the season starts. So we do podcasts like this. Fantastic. Susan is reacting. I don't know her mics on, but as predicted. We have a grandson that age.

congratulations. Thank you. I heard right before the show. Congratulations, guys. That's fantastic. Thank you. So, all right. What is going on with this made phenomenon, so to speak?

We have evidence of how Canada has had, we've spoken to people that have been offered, you know, medically assisted suicide that should physical therapy, essentially. And it has been sort of stunning how much the Canadian experience has run amok. Why in the world would we do it down here? Oh, you're not. Why in the world would we do it? You're doing it in 14 jurisdictions, 13 states and the 14th. And I think it's important to point that out because the reality is Canada is your canary in the coal mine that nobody wants

to pay attention to, but we're not the first to do it. We're just the ones to perfect it. I mean, you have, take a look at the Netherlands. They're killing children with autism over there. Look at Belgium. Take a look at Spain with the Noelia Castillo case. I've been speaking with their family and talking with their lawyers. You know, she was gang-graped. I'm sorry, I'm used to YouTube. And, you know, she took her own life, tried to take her own life. And then the government decided to euthanized her when she had a mental health disorder.

So Canada is a problem. We are now about to hit our 100,000th murder. And we should stop calling it made because that's not at all an acronym that is accurate to what this is. It is lethal injection with a paralytic that is a poison. that's put into your veins, it ends your life. It's not a medical procedure. It doesn't help you. It ends your life. We kill you. And Canada has become, in the past 10 years, we've killed 100,000 people. That's not anything small. The numbers that you just put on the screen are just from last year alone, 16,499. And we are now the leading, almost the leading cause, 5.1% like you've got on

the stats there. But the reason why I've been speaking so emphatically about this is because I currently qualify for made in Canada. I am a combat veteran with a laundry list of ailments that starting in March of 2027, they will euthanize you for. They will not provide you treatment, psychedelic cystic therapy, any actual meaningful support. They will offer you electroshock therapy like they did to myself and many other veterans that I know. And then they will offer you eugenics. And that is the issue years and years ago when a veteran, another combat veteran friend of mine was offered when he asked for help for post-traumatic stress disorder. And since then, I've been on a tirade across the globe on every show possible,

whether it's Julian Michaels, Pierce Morgan, Trigonometry. I have another one with them coming out this week where I have been screaming for the rooftops, trying to get America to understand what's really happening. Because America is not just slow dripping. You guys have taken our playbook. You've partnered with people like Compassion and Choices that are worth $35 million. And then you've had the Rabin Group, which is people that work with the Bill Gates Foundation, Bipak, you know, you name it.

They work with them, the Obama Foundation, and they're going around, and this is by, by honestly, their own words on YouTube and their own videos, you guys can watch it themselves. This is not conspiratorial at all. They are literally going around and targeting the states and saying that by 2028, over 50% of the American population will live in a state that will euthanize you. And look, I hear you. I don't really want to hear the conversation about suicidal empathy here because I live in the country that murders people for homelessness. So there is a slippery slope, but it's not even in existence. And like my dear friend Michael Malice says, it's an elevator shaft. We don't actually provide compassion and therapies.

If you've been anywhere in Canada, you know how impossibly difficult it is to get medical care, even though we have free medical care, if you want to call it that. You know, we have over 23,000 people die in a wait list every year and over a million people leave ERs every year. But hey, it's free, even though we pay for it. And now your tax dollars will go to euthanizing you. And here's the kicker, Dr. Drew, that most people just don't want to wrap their brain around. Not a single one of these drugs, not a single one of these poisons is designed for killing.

Because last time we studied killing, it was during the Holocaust and it's called eugenics. So now America is rolling this out as a health care alternative. And I have been speaking quietly with United States legislation. I've been working with the State Department to try to get in front of RFK and President Donald Trump to warn him, because if you guys do not actually wake up, these laws that are already in place and are rolling out this year and next year will make it so that anybody,

almost anybody that can just make themselves ill enough or look ill enough, qualify to be killed and murdered by their doctor. And that's not even exaggerating at this point. So the book is called Do No Harm. Is the public health community, pushing this? And I asked that question because I've only recently become aware that public health practitioners, so called, have no mandate to do no harm. It's unbelievable that we put people

in charge of large populations who have literally no mandate not to hurt you. It's uncanny. And so the kinds of concerns that they have, the things that they're weighing in terms of what's good for the population could easily include no profit, you know, saves X amount of dollars so we can do some more appendix repairs. Who is pushing this and where have we gone wrong?

So right now in Canada, you have a group, I speak about these groups often. They absolutely hate me after I went viral in Jordan Peterson. We slapped the hell out of their donation campaign, waking people up to what this actually was. You know, you have dying with dignity, you have compassion

and choices. You even have, you have sitting senators. And for example, you have Kathy Hogle who just got this legalized in New York using a sob story. You even have a sitting governor in California. Are you ready for this? Who wrote about it in his own memoir, admitting to euthanizing and participating to euthanizing his mother in 2002. And that's Gavin Newsom. And he was never charged with murder, but yet willingly participated and admitted to it in his own memoir. It's been spoken about in the Washington Post. It's been spoken about in People magazine, not that anybody cares about them. But it's definitely been spoken about everywhere. And I don't know how a sitting governor is even, even allowed to have a conversation about this, but he even got it legalized in

2016. And so the thing that people don't pay attention to is how much money this saves. And right now, there was a research paper done out of Canada that I spoke about on Jillian Michaels. And it went completely viral because Canada stands to save $1.273 trillion by providing in the next 20 years voluntary and non-voluntary euthanasia. And now that's not even a stretch for Canadians when you see that they've euthanized over 100,000 people who a lot of them don't qualify. The coroner reports, the Ontario coroner reports that have come out. The Amad Committee has come out and said that there have been non-compliant cases. There has been family members pushing individuals to get qualified to be euthanized and these people are not dying.

These people are not sick. So when people say, but Kelsey, Alzheimer's and dementia, I say, cool, are you good with lethal injection? Because that's the exact procedure minus the paralytic. And at least in Canada, we paralyze you so that when you drown to death in your own fluids, you can't scream. So, yeah. So this is complicated because indeed, the majority of health care doctors,

are spent in the last six months of life, typically in fruitless services, fruitless care. That is a fact, right? So if we empower doctors medical legally not to do that, like in other words, if we feel a care is fruitless and family wants it, we can say, I'm sorry, I'm not going to do it. Now we're not in a position to do that. I'm freezing again.

There we go. Can you hear me okay? Yeah, I got you. But the problem that you have to understand, right? Dr. Drew is this is there, you know, you're a doctor. There is a thing called the double blind. It's the, hey, we're going to increase morphine, heart rate's going to go down. You have the conversation with the family members.

That's not what we're doing here. That's not what we're doing. We're scheduling this. So hold on. No, no, I get it. You are ending a life in a premeditated fashion, not sort of setting up a situation where you're keeping somebody comfortable come what may, which is really how we approach it today. But there's a lot here.

So one is the real expense that is useless. Another is the real suffering that occurs, that incurs as a result, right? The fruitless care, like you said, people are drowning in their own secretions. It's horrific. And I have people all the time saying to me, my God, we would never do this to a dog, right? We at least allow dogs to end their life with dignity. And I have done that with dogs. And I've been really uncomfortable with it.

taking a moment to end a life, like we're going to do it right now, that's a weird thing with just packed with ethical problems. So we have a, we have a real thing of excess expense that could be dealt with differently. We have B, suffering that could be dealt with differently or avoided. And then we have the ethics of any of this all across it about ending a life. And then I guess a fourth layer would be the one you're talking about is where it runs amok, where people where it just goes, you know, it just goes crazy because people are not paying attention to how serious the thing this is. Well, I mean, so I am an absolutist.

I served over Stephen Afghanistan. I have taken enough lives now to know that ending life is never the solution or an option, regardless of suffering. The way that you devoid somebody of suffering, number one is stop lying to them and saying that suffering is not going to be a part of the human existence. to experience all of human life is to go through the gamut of it, correct? Right? So we know that.

Not only that. Not only that. Not only will there be, you know, will there be suffering? We pretend that we should never have to do so in this country, but that misery is inevitable. And misery might be good occasionally. A little bit of misery, a little bit of suffering, builds character. But we're talking about a different kind of suffering. But we're talking about a suffering that is, eh.

But are we, though? because let me just put a case for you. Let me just give me a chance here, right? Because this is something that I argue daily. I have this conversation with patients and people all the time who are like Kelsey, but, you know, she's in and out of delusion. She cannot function. Well, let me throw a case at you.

That's really brilliant. That illustrates my issues. Number one, if you can't seek a doctor, you can't get treatment, you can't get palliates of care or hospice, should we then be murdering you? Or should we putting funds into giving hospice and palliative care for proper end of because here's what happens if you don't. You go to places like Denmark, like the grandmother that I talk about in my book,

that's a very prominent story, who did this thing called advanced requests. Advanced requests are what Quebec are doing are federally illegal, but are happening in the province of Quebec, but no one's shocked because they're killing the most people in the globe right now. So this grandmother, true story, by the way, decided to do an advanced request. And at a certain point, her dementia got so significant and so severe, which we now understand dementia a lot of times, diabetes number three can be looked after early on in life and there is a ton of different research around it, but we didn't have it at the time.

So she goes into the doctor and the doctor doesn't tell her what's going on, but she slips a sedative into her coffee. During the time she drinks the coffee, she then gets lied down by her family to be euthanized. And during the procedure, she comes to. Is that legal? Oh yeah. Is that legal in your country? The doctor was not charged. Anyway, during the procedure, she came to and said, stop. No, I don't want this. And the family held her down and finished the procedure. We're not talking about compassion. We're talking about injecting your body with so much poison that it fights back that we have to give you a paralytic. And Dr. Joel Zivitt's research shows you, let me just finish, that when you do this procedure, your lungs fill with fluid, they go into a pulmonary edemic state and you drown to death in your own fluid.

So is it really compassion or is it just murder by another name? Right. So I guess the question would be, because I've always struggled with this issue. And like I said, even taking an animal and choosing a moment, that seems insane to me to have that power. At least we use pentobarbital barbitol on our animals, so they die immediately. But we use a bunch of things that we could use on humans. But again, I'm not at all comfortable with any of this. But is there any room for this?

Or is it always going to run amok? because of all the competing distorted. There's never room, right? We saw this. I hate to keep bringing it back to them, but we saw this in the 1800s. We saw in the 30s and the 40s. It's when the difficult eaters,

the women that were struggles, the children, the mentally ill. Now you have the College of Physicians in Quebec suggesting we should be euthanizing children zero to one for spinal bifida and down syndrome. So you cannot trust human beings. Human beings are flawed. Oh, you don't know about this?

No, it's awful. Yeah. I get so disappointed. Yeah, the head of the college of positions. I want to hear about this stuff. Blach. Awful. It's disappointing in Canada, but what's more disappointing is the fact that when I sit down

with the United States State Department years ago and they said they had no clue it was already happening in their own country. And you have a sitting governor who willingly and admittedly participated in euthanizing his own mother when it was illegal and somehow still hasn't been slapped with any sort of law. Listen, remember Dr. Gavorkian? He went to prison for advocating for some of this in really an extreme situation. It's not for widespread use. And they took him to prison.

And yet people are doing it now. I'd love to talk to the attorneys that prosecuted that case. How do they feel about this now? And they seem very, very ethically immobilized by Dr. Gavorkian's position to the point that they felt he was a dangerous. to the public. Well, take a look at the Canadian. Yeah, well, if you take a look at the Canadian law and you take a look at the people that have legalized,

because they never legalized euthanasia. They just amended the criminal code so doctors can't be held accountable because the only words a doctor has to say in Canada are this. I was of the opinion that this individual qualified, and that's how you avoid jail time. Do you think that some of the reason we could go down this path is that

relativism in ethics and in the pursuit of truth and in logic has taken hold where there's no such thing as what is true? Philosophically? I think there's exactly. I think that's a big component of it. I think everything is

currently crumbling in the country that I live to an extent that most people don't understand because our media is banned and blocked so you can't find out how bad it actually is. And I think that they need escape scapegoat to cut out a massive amount of the population that is a vulnerable part, which is your addicts, your homeless, you're disabled, your veterans, your elderly, and they realize that they can save to the tune over a trillion dollars by just providing compassion and care.

And I believe that the United States is not only on the same path, you guys are doing it in California, Colorado, and Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, and Maine, Montana, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Washington, Oregon, Vermont. And the worst part is, Oregon and Vermont, you don't even have to live there. You can fly from any state you want on a one-way ticket and just be euthanized by a doctor there. Wow. Well, the way you're describing it sounds very much. There's all this paranoia about Nazis these days.

I was one of their first moves was to unload people that were a burden that were old and were unfit and you know. And you use the word eugenic. I assume that's where you were equating it with that. Yep. All right, listen, thank you for fighting the good fight. I am persuaded that humans are flawed and we can't trust them with this power. I think that's really the bottom line here. Sorry.

I'm sorry. I look forward. Well, I'm disappointed at the where it's gone. And I will look forward to reading your book. Do no harm. Thank you so much for having me, guys. I really appreciate it. And thank you for tolering the negativity that is this subject.

But we have to do something about it before it's too late. All right. I like to talk about things that seem important, and this does certainly seem. So thank you so much. Thanks, guys. All right. Switching gears again, we're going to talk about treating mental illness after this with Anthony Brown and with...

Whoops. Yes, with... Oh, shoot, where is her name? I keep coming up to Kelsey. Sure. And there we are, Bethany Eiser. Bethany is from CUR-C-U-R-E-S-Z.org. And she's going to tell us about that right after this.

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I want to take a quick call here. Eric, Janice, go ahead. Christine, you're an ER nurse. Dr. Drew, what happens if you inject something oil based directly into a vein? Did the drug company lie to the government, or did the government just choose to lie to the public? New here is very good. We're able to express ourselves. I don't see the profession doing anything to really build trust beside you.

I'm happy to be on here. You and I see the world the same way. What is it like for you to be the most chiseled and best-looking man in media? Giving us the information we need. Thank you for the truth. My pleasure. We are going to take your calls at 8333-D-R-D-R-E-W. So I've got Bethanyeiser and Anthony Brown with me.

I think we're going to be introducing you both simultaneously. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. Here they are. Okay, let's bring there you guys are. Thank you for being here, gentlemen, and ladies. Anthony has been here before several times. He, of course, has his own story of recovery,

and he's now in Ohio building a program called Brown Manor to help with the homeless. His book is Bench to Park Avenue, which is an extraordinary book, an extraordinary story. Anthony Howard Brown.com and Brown underscore Manor on X. Let's see. Anywhere else, Anthony, I should send people. That's about the best place to get hold to me.

Thank you, Dr. Drew. Okay. And Anthony is a nurse, and he's been a nursing director, and he's got tons of clinical experience. And he and I just happened, we had coffee a couple weeks ago, and we just happened to be talking about treating schizophrenia and what kinds of things are effective, what are not.

And Bethany Yizer, who is the president of the Curis Foundation, happened to have an incredible success story around the very medicine we were talking. So Anthony, and her book is Mind Estrange. And Bethany, I'm going to have you tell your story and tell us about Cures first. Well, we started cures in 2016. It stands for comprehensive understanding via research and education into schizophrenia. We're very interested in proactive treatment.

When I was diagnosed with schizophrenia, within about 48 hours, I was told I was permanently and totally disabled. You will not go back to school. You won't work. live independently. Fortunately, those doctors were very wrong. A year later in 2008, I started a very underutilized medication called Closopene, which enabled me to go back to college, graduate with high grades, and then eventually write my memoir and begin the Cures Foundation. We love cutting edge and underutilized medications. Again, Closopine. We love long-acting injectables. Cobenfi, one of the newest developments in the schizophrenia world. We also offer supportive programs, caregivers,

mentoring program. We have cures clubs, a support group with people in full recovery and every call. And we also feature people we call schizophrenia survivors. These are people who are doing remarkably well despite schizophrenia. We have a lawyer, computer programmers, CEOs, social workers, medical researchers. I've been told many times over the years that, oh, you're the exception to the rule in your full recovery. And we feature these other people to show that today in America, there is real hope for a full recovery thanks to modern antipsychotics. And Anthony, it surprises me to hear Bethany say that Closer Rule is underutilized or rarely utilized. I was around, I was working in a psych hospital when it hit the mark. It was probably 20 years ago,

25 years ago. And we used a fair bit. It didn't always work, but when it worked, we're great. Yeah. Anthony, just surprised you that she's saying underutilized? Go ahead. It's, you know what? It does and it doesn't.

Because I know I work at a hospital and our psychiatrists rarely prescribe it. And, you know, we still see the, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean, they'll toss out of Bollify and Gidone and, you know, all that other stuff. but then when you mentioned Clauser wrote, they're sort of hesitant. And I don't know why because, you know, it has created some really good results.

And I think, and I'm grateful that Bessony is such an advocate, because we need to get that out there. You know, we need people to know that there is, you know, a really good medication that can help save people untold visits to the hospital.

I don't get. If I remember, didn't it cause, Bone marrow supri? Yeah, egrainocytosis. That was the one thing we always worried about, but it's super rare. Yeah, I think Bessoni can probably speak on the rim studies and where they are right now on that. A granulocytosis happens in 1% of the population who trichlizapine.

So there's a mandatory blood draw weekly at first. But it will show that there is a risk for this condition and the medication can be stopped. so it's exceedingly rare to actually be in great danger. And reversible. And reversible, right? And then myocarditis, which is the other thing they kind of talk about, that I've never seen. It's very rare.

It's very rare. And the slower you titrate it up, the less chance there is that you'll develop myocarditis. All right. So there we go. It's interesting to me. Psychiatry is cavalier about some things and overly conscious about others. It's really interesting.

So, Bethany, you were on the streets for a while, and Anthony were too. I'll get to you in a second, but in a very different context. Talk to people about how that happens, what that was like, and where we are going wrong, leaving people with serious mental illness on the streets. Yeah, quickly, I was an honor student at USC. Everything was going very well. And then my senior year, I dropped out and became homeless in the LA area. I was spending a lot of time in lounges and libraries.

Anyway, eventually I left campus. And I found this local churchyard. And I was staying there every night. It lasted 13 months. And when I got better, I thought, why? Why did they let me right away on the streets when I could have been killed or assaulted or who knows what? Why wasn't I picked up taken to a hospital? sooner.

That is the question that everybody asks when they get better. Why did you leave me on the street? What did you think? But now you had kind of a grandiose delusion, right? And so that's the thing that people are not used. They have social workers who aren't psychiatrists. They're not used to dealing with this stuff. They don't know a deal with addiction.

They don't know a serious mental illness. And somebody with a grandiose illusion, will they meet them where they are? If you think you're Napoleon, we'll meet you where you are. You're Napoleon. Yeah, I had a whole whole whole whole. of symptoms. Before I started sleeping outside, I had paranoia, very afraid of my mom and dad, could not accept help from anybody, grandiose delusions, and some catatonia, too. I was in parks steering into space for hours at a time. And I also really thought nothing was wrong with me. I thought

this was my choice. I thought that I had the right to stay outside. I thought I had the right to live as I was. And it just is amazing because you look back and you think so much wasted time. You know, why? Why wasn't this treated sooner? Well, dangerous too. My God, as you say. But that has a name. That block of insight has a name. Anthony, Anthony has a great story. The name is called Anasagnosia. That's the name for it. It's a biological block of insight to what's happening to you. With addiction, it has a slightly different kind of, you know, addiction is a illness that has lots of comedic kinds of twists and turns to it. And Anthony's story, his antisagnosia, has some of those qualities where how many times were

you picked up and put in prison? And each time, what did you think? I spent most of the 90s in the prison, as you know, Dr. Drew. I'd get out usually in the summertime and I'll be back before fall. And I kept going back to the same location, you know, in Orange County in Harvard and Wilson. And each time they let me on. I'd go back and I couldn't even figure out exactly what was wrong. I thought my best thinking was that maybe if I hit the drugs in a different place, then maybe I won't get caught. Well, I went back to the same exact location and got arrested by the same police officer that worked the same beat. And I didn't know what was going on.

I didn't know nothing about addiction. All I know is I thought I had to be, I had to get whatever I needed. I didn't know about the physical craving or anything like that. that. And then when I, since now I work in health care and I see a lot of the systems that's not working. And I look at it from a different perspective because, you know, there wasn't inadequate care. It was lack of trauma. Because that whole thing was all because of my childhood trauma that was unresolved. I was an exercise in myself. And then the physical craving kicked in. And the next thing, you know, I'm standing out there in the middle of Harvard Wilson with one shoe on thinking everything

is fine. And it was just sad. You told me that last time you picked up again and went, now I know the problem. I keep it in my coat. I got to put it my socks. That's good. That's what's going on here. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that's how addiction

affects people. It's crazy. I thought that I'd hold it in my hand and get rid of it when the heat was on, but I was so intoxicated. I forgot I even had it in my hand. You know, the simple, would be just to stop using, but I didn't know that I should stop using. And it's really fascinating because it is a kind of twisted and a sick nosia because I didn't

know I was sick. I didn't know I had a disease. I didn't know I had an addiction. All I know is that I just kept getting caught and why are you picking on me? You know, I'm not doing nothing to myself. I was killing myself. I was killing myself. Right. So here we have one delusional system that It has antisagnosia, yours, Bethany, where you think you're living your best life on the street and you're dying and you're in danger. Anthony's is, I'm actively killing myself with drugs and alcohol and I'm engaged in illegal, all kinds of addict stuff.

What do we... I saw Mayor Bass a couple days ago go, we have to get people teeth. That's going to cure their addiction. That's going to get them back to work. Anthony, if we'd only gotten you some teeth or, Bethany, I don't know if you had dental problems when you were out on the streets, it's common.

That would have made all the difference. I got teeth. I just didn't eat. That's the whole thing because I wasn't hungry. You know, there's addiction is multifaceted. And I know that there is a solution. And when I hear, you know, first of all, when I hear people just come down so hard and throw the stigma on addiction,

that totally makes me uncomfortable. Because that's not a solution. That's ignorance. It should be, hey, come with me. We got treatment. Come with me. We got a real nice place for you. Let's get going.

It's eventually what happened to you, Anthony. Wasn't it the same cop that kept arresting you? Yeah, the same cop had a friend that had a treatment center. And then they took me in there and said, hey, you know, we're going to give you some help. And I'm like, I need help. And they're like, yeah. And then they explain what my behavior was. And then it's like, then they modeled what their appropriate behavior was.

And then I stuck around long enough and was able to get a lot better. Think about how they'd met you where you were. Those are the scariest words that clinicians ever utter, in my humble opinion. Bethany, tell us about cares and what we should be doing differently. Well, we need to make it easier for people who are severely ill to get into hospitals. I mean, should I really have been allowed to spend 13 months, rotting away outside, delusional and hallucinating? I mean, if I had Alzheimer's disease, no one would come to me and say, oh, hey, do you want to take a medication? Do you want help? And for me, the only chance at recovery was an involuntary hospitalization. I remember I got in there and absolutely refused medication, but they told me I had to take medication. It wasn't easy and it wasn't pleasant. And I mean, at first I thought I would never get better. But on the right hand psychotic,

I have a full life. I've had stable housing for close to 20 years. I have my degree now. I work full time. So we need to do a better job getting people who are on the streets into safety, a place where they can get medication, food, stable housing. I will say in the 1940s, we had half a million hospital beds. But in the 60s and 70s, we had deinstitutionalization.

And today we've got around 40,000. beds, even though the population has more than doubled. So we need more beds. So that was the result of the Community Mental Health Act, which was a well-intentioned but misguided, informed by psychoanalysis who believed that hospitals caused psychiatric illness and they made no plans. And the people that brought this to bear had no experience with serious mental illness, had never set foot in a psychiatric hospital.

And so 150 years of systematic state mental health services and infrastructure were undone with the stroke of a pen. And all those patients were sent to the streets, the nursing homes, and the prisons. And that's where they have remained. Not as many nursing homes. It's pretty expensive. But, yeah, I mean, I was on the streets, as I keep saying, for quite a long time. And I remember I had been this honor student and scholarship winner at USC. but after persistently refusing to leave campus for a long time,

I was actually briefly jailed for trespassing on the same university. And you can kind of understand the confusion. During that time, I thought I was still the honor student. I still thought I could get an A in a biochemistry exam. I had, as we've been saying, annozygnosia, I had no idea that anything was wrong with me. We just have to do better. We have to do better.

So tell us about cures. How is that going to help? Well, we love to hear from you. We have a caregiver's mentoring program as a doctor events. We have hopeful support group with people in full recovery and every call virtual lecture series. A lot of opportunities to get involved. We have a lot of really important information to. Number one, schizophrenia is a physical disorder of the brain.

and medications we have today are highly effective for restoring a healthy chemical balance inside the brain. So we need to understand that this is a physical problem just like diabetes, just like cancer. And we have treatment checklist online information on other... And Bethany, just like diabetes and the illness is untreated. Yeah, the consequences mount if it's untreated. and the untreated schizophrenia can become irretrievable.

So it becomes so important to treat early and often for people to be fully restored. But I'm sorry, I interrupted you about some of the offerings at Cures. Tell me more. Oh, no, not at all. We also published a book called Awakening's in 2024, stories of recovery and emergence from schizophrenia. 28 of our survivors are in that book, our success stories. And we have a lot of articles and a collection of essays. you can find almost anything about schizophrenia on our website, our YouTube channel.

We have about 85 videos in our YouTube channel. We have a summer summit this July, actually. It's our 10th anniversary summit of being an organization. So go on cures.org and look us up, consider joining us in summer. And is there support groups for patients and family? We have a very hopeful support group open to patients and family. And on every call, at least three or four people in full remission of symptoms are there. So it's very hopeful.

It is not a place. Yeah, it's not a place to just grieve and complain. It's a place to find hope. And be proactive. I should say one more thing. We help people find doctors. We have what we call a Closopin expert panel with about 140 clinicians all over the country who prescribe close opine.

I mean, it's kind of ridiculous that some psychiatrists do not prescribe the most effective antipsychotic we have. But we do have that helping people find a clue. Very, very strange. Anthony, what are you doing with cures? When I'm doing with cures? Bethany and I were both on the schizophrenia and psychosis action network. And I'm just learning more from her and the other members there about severe mental illness. I find it quite fascinating because I do.

do work in mental health, and I want to become a stronger advocate and bring space practice into that field, because as I shared earlier, our doctors don't even utilize Klazorio. And so the more I know, the more I can be able to bring to the table some material and experts and things like that to help change that philosophy or that mindset. And so just... And finally, Anthony, tell us about Brown Manor. Brown Manor. Brown Manor is the program we have out here in Ohio.

It's pretty much a social model program that's designed for cognitive behavioral change. Our philosophy is that you can't think your way in a better living, so you should live your way into better thinking. And so we have this big old mansion out there, and only 10 people can come because we're designed for homeless people. it takes us about 30 days to get the homeless out of you. And then it takes about 11 months that teach you some other skills. Because I know from all the studies I've done, people aren't born homeless. If they are child protective services, take them. So something happens.

So we look at all the different ways to try to prevent being homeless, whether you get transferred from being in jail, whether you get released from a psychiatric hospital with nowhere to go, or you have some major health issues you can't afford. Come on down to Brown Manor's, located in Mansell, Ohio. And we're more than happy to sit down and, you know, help you discover who you really are. Anthony, thank you for that work. And Bethany, thank you for your work. You guys are both in inspiration. And however we can support you, let us know, okay?

Okay, thank you. Thank you. All right, guys, thank for joining us. All right, Caleb, coming up, I know we have Brad Williams in here tomorrow because he was texting me during the show. He's very excited. We haven't seen each other in a while. Oh, we're going to talk a little climate change. And what really is going to talk about China tomorrow? I hope not because now the stream's fine. No. It really has a theory that every time we talk about China, it breaks up.

Coming up also, Dreia DiMateo is coming back in. Is she going to be in person? Do you know? No. No. Gad's sad. Andrew Yang. We've got a lot of great guests coming here.

We'll be away for a couple weeks. And both Kelly Victory and Kira Davis will be sitting in here and there to help us out. but I'm very much looking forward to really soon tomorrow to talk about sun energy and its effect on climate. And Brad Williams will join us. Comedian, got great stories. He'll be here. We'll see you tomorrow at 2 o'clock. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky.

Emily Barsh is our content producer. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving, though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published.

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