Ask Dr. Drew - Trump Derangement Syndrome: Help Is Available (But The Real Cause Might Surprise You) w/ Thomas Pappas, Rachel Morin & Abraham Hamadeh – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 366

Episode Date: June 9, 2024

If you or someone you know has Trump Derangement Syndrome, help is available – though the root cause of this affliction might surprise you (hint: it started long before Trump). In their new book, Thomas Pappas & Rachel Morin PhD “expose the root causes” of TDS, including a rise in “helicopter parenting” and “millennial mentality” that create perfect conditions for deranged behavior motivated by political fear. Abraham Hamadeh is a former prosecutor, US Army Reserve intel officer, and currently a Republican candidate for Arizona’s 8th Congressional District. Follow him at https://x.com/AbrahamHamadeh and learn more about his campaign at https://abeforaz.com/ Thomas Peppas is a psychometrist with over 20 years of experience and a coauthor of “Trump Derangement Syndrome: A Psychological Analysis of Leftist Ideology” with Rachel Morin. Follow him at https://x.com/tdsbook Rachel Morin PhD holds a Doctoral degree in Psychology and a Master degree in Psychiatry. She has held positions as Lead Neuropsychologist at a major health facility, clinical supervisor of PhD students, and an expert witness on several occasions. She is a coauthor of “Trump Derangement Syndrome: A Psychological Analysis of Leftist Ideology” with Thomas Peppas. Find more at https://TDSbook.com 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • CAPSADYN - Get pain relief with the power of capsaicin from chili peppers – without the burning! Capsadyn's proprietary formulation for joint & muscle pain contains no NSAIDs, opioids, anesthetics, or steroids. Try it for 15% off at https://capsadyn.com/drew • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • TRU NIAGEN - For almost a decade, Dr. Drew has been taking a healthy-aging supplement called Tru Niagen, which uses a patented form of Nicotinamide Riboside to boost NAD levels. Use code DREW for 20% off at https://drdrew.com/truniagen • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew • COZY EARTH - Susan and Drew love Cozy Earth's sheets & clothing made with super-soft viscose from bamboo! Use code DREW to save up to 30% at https://drdrew.com/cozy • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There we go. Welcome everyone. We are very pleased to have guests in studio again today. They've written a book called Trump Derangement Syndrome, something that has been casually discussed. There it is on a full screen. And they are trained to actually, they are mental health professionals,

and we'll talk about their training and background. And they are in position to theorize and to develop a frame to understand this phenomenon. We have casually called Trump derangement. Perhaps there's something more formal to put in there. And then we have Abe Hamadeh. I hope I'm pronouncing his last name correctly. He is a candidate in Arizona, and we're going to talk to him about his candidacy. And he was recently endorsed

by former President Trump. And what I want to know is how is that, how has Trump's arrangement come raining down on him as a result of being in that sphere of influence? Be very interesting.

So we're going to get into that and more and watch you guys on the restream. And of course, Rumble, Rumble Ranchers, we'll look for you there. Take a listen. Be right back. our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre the psychopath started this right he was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography ptsd love addiction

fentanyl and heroin ridiculous i'm a doctor for say where the hell you think i learned that i'm just saying you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want help stopping, I can help.

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And of course, I've recommended capsaicin creams to patients over the years, but other capsaicin creams burn your skin. That's what makes Capsodent so unique. In clinical trials, Capsodent has actually been demonstrated not to burn. I've been using Capsodent to relieve my pain in my hands and my wrist from carpal tunnel syndrome and arthritis.

The results have been amazing. I use it every day during my show and I highly recommend it. Get the pain relief you need from various sources, even backaches, sprains, bruises even. Order now at capsidin.com slash drew to get a 15% discount plus free shipping. That is C-A-P-S-A-D-Y-N, capsidyn.com, slash D-R-E-W. All right, so let's put up again, Trump Derangement Syndrome, the book. Thomas Pappas and Dr. Rachel Morin have had the, what should we say? The intestinal fortitude.

I was going to use a little more slang terminology. Intestinal fortitude to write this down to create this book and to formalize uh this phenomenon that we all understand what we're talking about when we say it so i want to introduce thomas and rachel guys thank you and welcome we appreciate you being here well thank you for having us yeah thank you so much dr drew and thank you for writing the book too because, because it's extraordinary. There's so many extraordinary things going on today. So whose idea was this? Before I do that, tell me first, each of you, Tom first, what your training is and background and why it's suitable for this project. Sure. Well, actually, I'm trained in psychology and human behavior.

And we've worked together in our practice for 25 years conducting assessments or and primarily that's what i've done is the assessment aspect aspect of it so i'm gonna i'm gonna do a lot of interrupting to make sure we do what the audience hears this exactly i want them to hear it when you say assessment you're doing neuropsych testing absolutely formal testing yes yeah which is i don't think people are aware enough that from a diagnostic perspective, from a medical perspective, I mean, we can get a whole conversation about this some other time. But when I see all these people diagnosed with certain things, I'm like, did you have

neuropsych testing? Did you, your kid with ADD, did he get neuropsych testing? Did you do the testing? And that really is where the answer is. When people talk about experimentation, I i go if you're worried about that get neuropsych testing and that's your answer it's just a quantitative analysis of what is actually going on absolutely i wish i could have explained it as well as you don't get and so why is was that good for this project well through the years of our experience uh conducting

that kind of a set those kind of assessments uh it allowed us just just to identify behavior in people. I think you need to lean into that mic a little more. Why don't you slide your chair a little bit? Yeah, because when you turn towards me, there you go. Okay. Go ahead. Okay, well, it just allowed us exposure to thousands of patients over the years and to be able to identify behavior in individuals.

And it was something that we were able to see patterns and translate to what we have identified across America now. Okay. Rachel, what was it? Well, first of all, your training. Okay. So my training, I have a master's in psychiatry and a PhD in assessment and diagnosis. So I am not a clinical psychologist.

And I think in the traditional sense of the word, where people think that I do therapy, that's not in my wheelhouse. Strictly do assessment and diagnosis. So I want to, again, shine a light on that. So to me, the two of you go perfectly together, right? He gives you the quantitative analysis. Do you also assess the patients?

Do you do clinical assessments? Not as much anymore. But you have that training in the background. I do, yes. So he gives you the, you get the paperwork, Tom, and then Rachel looks at the patient, and together you decide what's going on. That's right.

So I interpret the test results. Perfect for Trump derangement. Perfect for the American psyche. So what led you, what were you seeing? What led you to write this book? Well, what we were seeing for me, well, I think it was for you as well, is how pervasive and chronic the symptoms that we witnessed.

It was initially when he was first candidate, we thought, okay, people are not too happy about it. He became president. It was amplified. The visceral hate just increased. And what we thought, a red flag for me, is when I saw individuals' symptoms beginning to interfere with their daily functioning. Which is how we define serious mental illness, frankly. Is it affecting functioning? Yes or no? Was there a characteristic constellation? Was it anxiety? Was it anger outburst? Was it depression? Sleep disturbances? All of the above?

I think predominantly for me, what I witnessed was the anger. And that seems to be on the surface that you weren't even able to still today, still discuss Donald Trump with certain groups of individuals, right? Without them becoming overcome by anger. Is it anger? Because anger has different flavors, right? I don't experience it as hostility. It's not hostility.

It really is like an uncontrolled rage, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. Yes, I would agree with you and and i mean we could go into it right now go go bring it right awesome okay so um from the very beginning i guess well actually did you want to start tom or well no i could address back to you know just a more rudimentary aspect of why we got into writing this book was just because of all the dysfunction

that we saw across the country. And, you know, and you could, and you could trace it back to this, at least proximally related to this election, which is what you say it out loud. It's like,

what, what is wrong with us? Okay. Keep going. It makes no sense. Yeah, absolutely. That makes no sense.

Common sense seems to have flown out the window. Yeah. And that people can't think ration and uh have open discourse with each other is there is there a uh so are there a parallel uh syndrome of trump idol idolatry you know what i mean is that the trump loving syndrome right that's the the sort of co-variant with this well i think we see a similarity yeah you wanted to go with well and are those the same people psychologically it was going to interest me keep going so you're saying i know there's some people that reference there's a trump cult is that what you're referring just i i don't want to go there

because that's so specific but there are certainly people that will follow him into a fire you know what i mean that they're just they just seem to love him you what's i i guess the reason i see it i want to state my position i have i'm like totally neutral on this guy i'm like he i i don't know i worry about myself that he doesn't bother me because everybody's so bothered by it or they love him so much and and i'm like uh god's presidential can he has some strengths and weaknesses yeah i get why i get why he inflames you i totally understand i get it but but the extremes and the way that people talk about it is mysterious to me it's actually mysterious well i think when you're referring to that extreme

yeah on the other end yes i haven't witnessed to the point where it would impact again their functioning got it right they're not giving themselves and well if you were january 6th though it impairs if we get it got in the way of functioning. They lost their freedoms. Right. Interesting. But I mean, I think that's a whole other discussion in terms of January 6th. Yes.

But I think in terms of the development of Trump derangement syndrome, there's a theory that we've proposed. And we mentioned earlier, I guess the audience wasn't aware of that. The Matthias Desmet theory. Okay. And so, excuse me for the interruptions because I just want to make sure the audience stays with us. So, Matthias is somebody I interviewed on this show in great, great detail. And he has a theory. He's sort of the originator of the notion of mass formation that Robert Malone first referenced on the Joe Rogan show that created a lot of attention. Malone used the term mass formation psychosis, which I don't know that that's quite accurate. But, well, I believe that is accurate.

But he would call it sort of a little bit of a miscarriage of the term. So go ahead, Matthias Desmond. Yeah, so Matthias Desmond. So our theory, I think there's a lot of overlay between what he believed to be or how hysteria has developed. Yes. I think with Trump derangement syndrome, I don't think that mass is a correct identification because I don't think it's impacting all of the population. I think we're just seeing one specific ideology or a group that has a specific ideology on the left. The hysteria part, Certainly we can address.

What we looked at. And I think with Mr. Desmet. What he looked at was. Narcissism. Was the one characteristic. Or trait. In individuals that would create that vulnerability. To the propaganda.

And he sort of took it back to historical sweep. He was saying when religions faded that create an opportunity for envy and narcissistic rage and all these other things to kind of emerge that religion used to kind of keep down and that led to the 20th century phenomenology of totalitarianism and and uh big leaders and that kind of thing. Yes, and he did touch on the propaganda. And I think this is what we're seeing with TDS is those on the left or the ruling class or bureaucrats, when they saw Trump coming into the picture,

they became quite threatened for their wealth and their power. Their jobs, yes. Yes, so I think they started this propaganda campaign against the man, trying to, I guess, convince the populace that he's a threat to democracy. Hitler. He's Hitler. Exactly. Right? So I think that, in a sense, and the theory is similar. I think this is what we were seeing as well, where he believed, so these individuals who are being vulnerable or vulnerable to the propaganda, he really focused on that narcissism.

And our focus is a little bit different. In our theory, we get there. But initially, what we're seeing is I think what makes an individual most vulnerable to any forms of propaganda, not just TDS, is what we call the term locus of control. I don't know, Tom, if you want to define that? Tell us a little more about that. Sure, sure, absolutely. Locus of control, that was a theory.

Get your mics a little closer and move your chairs in. There's a little bit of fading. All right. Back in the 1950s, Julian Rotter came up with the concept of locus of control. And he divided that into two arenas, and it would be either internal or external. And we found a correlation between external locus of control and a left-leaning political ideology. So define what that would look like in the world. Well, an external locus of control would be someone, it would be an individual,

that feels like they have no control over the decisions that they make in their life and that all the outcomes are victims. Yes. That's a fine point on it. Absolutely. Yeah. And conversely, you have the internal locus of control where people, you know, they take ownership to their behavior. Which is kind of rare these days. I don't know about you, but clinically it's just sort of not the,

not the, I don't want to say not the norm, but it's not that common. Right. Absolutely. It is something that people struggle with. And we found a higher prevalence rate as well among the younger cohorts. And I know Rachel can dive into that a little more.

Any theory what that is, where that came from? So the external locus, I just wanted to add one thing. Those who have an external locus of control are more apt to develop depression and have high stress, more likely to develop psychological pathology. And so getting back to what was your question? I'm sorry, Dr. Where this comes from in the younger folks. Well, I think when we're looking at the millennials and the Gen Z generation, I think that's a result of the helicopter parenting. your question i'm sorry dr uh where this comes from in the younger folks well i think and when

we're looking at the millennials and the gen z generation i think that's a result of the helicopter parenting is it helicopter parenting or is it the the destruction of the family and the helicopter parenting i think there's a combination absolutely i think it's a good point but i think the helicopter and by the way the sort of the social media well i'm sure it's all you've mentioned in the book but but and you know the one thing interesting I don't think you mentioned in here was the failed, again, ideology of the sort of the self-esteem movement. Telling kids that are feeling victimized that, hey, you're the greatest thing in the world because you're you. You don't need to do anything and it's that is a way to shatter kids character development i absolutely i have low self-esteem and i've always kind of valued it i mean it troubled me when i was an adolescent

but it as an adult it keeps you honest and keeps you checking and double checking and being responsible and keeping an internal locus of control too. So I worry about that movement as well. Do you agree with me on that? Absolutely. But I think that's all part of the helicopter parenting. I think that's a parenting style that created, as you identified, while they have a lack of resilience, they have a sense of entitlement. And surprisingly, they do have lack of empathy, but one study that we looked at found that there was a 30%

higher rate of narcissistic traits in the Gen Z population. That's been a trend going on for a while. I wrote a book on that 20 years ago, because I'll tell you my story. I was working in a psychiatric hospital. I sort of arrived there in like 1984, 1985. And the admission sheets, which includes the access to that we used to call the personality disorders, were all over the place. The A, B, C clusters were all over the place. Oh, there's my book. And, you know, the people had all kinds of things. I saw all kinds of things.

And very quickly it started shifting. It was initially, by the end of the and very quickly it started shifting it was initially by the end of the 80s it was border a lot of borderline disorder i mean and then by 90s only cluster b that's always always cluster b and i just i stopped even reading the axis diagnosis because nobody had a dependent personality just because and when i would see a dependent which the only other thing i would occasionally see was was dependent, I would go, whoa, how did he know? It looks like a borderline to me. But that's all we saw after that. And to me at that time, that was coming off the heels of a lot of childhood trauma. And I'm wondering if some of the helicopter parenting is not a response

that I don't want this to happen to my kid. The trauma I went through, I got to stay on top of these kids. What do you think? I would disagree with that. I think this is a generation of parents that were, generally speaking, not at home and working. And I think it was just a way to compensate for that. So it was, I think that style of parenting also is that they want to be their friend there was you know limited no boundaries no yeah no boundaries um but i also think what dr true is saying i i agree with you in part with that as well though because i do think the dysfunction that these parents people experienced yeah they take they carry that through when they become parents somehow it's intergenerational stuff.

Here we are. But I don't think that's the... You don't see it as trauma per se. I don't see it as trauma per se because I think it's an entire cohort. And I think if it was trauma-driven or whether it was... It'd be more broken down or segmented. I think it would be a smaller proportion of individuals. And that's why I'm thinking it's more the parenting style. So,

and, but you know, we all know some adults with a Trump derangement. My friend, Bill Maher has a form of Trump derangement. Yes, he sure does. You know, you were on with him on the gut fail show the other night.

He was very mad at me that I didn't share the Trump derangement. I was waiting for you to say you have TDS. No, because he's too good a friend. And, and I say it even here with, with, with peace and love and peace and love with jabil i

don't mean it in a pejorative way at all actually and uh and he may be right about all of his opinions about him but but the intensity of it i recognize is trump derangement and and again when somebody like that that's i admire and is so smart has it i'm just like what's wrong with me why don't i he asked the same question by the way why why i do it because i don't? Why don't I? He asked the same question, by the way. Why are you doing it? Because I don't care. I don't have that growth that these people have. And Bill was not raised in that kind of family. So adults get TDS also. Is that just sporadic TDS rather than what do we call it?

Endemic PD TDS. Right. I think with somebody like Bill, and I could be wrong. I don't know anything about the gentleman. But what I've seen is the parents of these Gen Z, again, when I mentioned to you about them wanting to be their friend. Bill's a boomer. Bill's a boomer. That perhaps their children are more left-leaning. Yeah.

And they have TDS. Yeah. And they want the approval from their children. No, he doesn't have kids. He doesn't have kids. Okay, he doesn't have kids he's very against them there goes that theory perhaps then it's um maybe it's look any syndrome that is endemic can also occur sporadically he used to be really far to the left though right yeah i think so i think so but but how about like a Robert De Niro? And that's that. I think that is envy. Okay.

Honestly. Interesting. But envy is what I, that's back to my theory that narcissism is under this. Absolutely. Yeah. And so there's some narcissism bleeding in here, which gets into everything these days. And I was thinking about somebody else I wanted to ask you about. Gosh, darn it.

This is the aging brain that I complained to Tom about who does psychometrics, so I won't even allow him to look at mine. All right. So you decided, as you were seeing this pattern, you decided we better write a book about this and alert people. I'm also curious about how this dovetailed into COVID hysteria. Because you mentioned hysteria. We really didn't get into COVID hysteria. Because you mentioned hysteria. We really didn't get into what hysteria is.

And to me, I'm shocked that we were so prone to hysteria. I saw the narcissism, and I saw the envy, and I saw the unregulated aggression. And that made sense to me, given what I was seeing out in the world. But the hysteria was a total shock to me. So I'm wondering if the trump derangement was sort of the i don't know somehow the inciting influence sort of the precursor made somehow set up the hysteria yeah and so and and certainly set up the propaganda the covid propaganda machine

that was a hysterical kind of a crazy uh uh outburst maybe underlying that was trump derangement i i don't know i can't make that i'll make it put it i don't know what you're saying it makes it it's very interesting and i think people were primed because of donald trump priming you know and tell me what priming is because it's kind of complicated there's many different things when people say priming absolutely so basically just it's in a sense it's setting people up it's it's there to go it's like a suggestion it's a suggestion and so people are already amped up they're on edge because of donald trump they're on edge because of a lot of things that are happening and then all of a sudden covid comes on the scene and and i'm with you i was quite surprised that people acted the way they did it was over the top when you would go into a

grocery store and the shelves would be bare, you know, and there was no concern for their fellow man. I had an incident at the hospital where I've been attending for 35 years where a brand new pressed out 26 year old security guard was screaming at me, where are my papers? I swear to God, if you filmed that and put it as a border crossing in a World War II film,

you would be invaded black and white. It would be indistinguishable from what happened in world war two. And so I believe that's, I think it's the mainstream media that's responsible for the, well, I'm glad you're pulling, you're actually pulling me back that way because at the time when I was experiencing it,

when this was all breaking out, I thought it was all the media. I did not know the government was involved with this as we've discovered in the Trump files. I mean, excuse me, the Twitter files, that sort of thing. Is that a Freudian slip? Oh, absolutely. But it's understandable what we're talking about.

It's not revealing anything that i wouldn't be already saying uh and and so with the scene the government's hand in there putting its finger on the scale and stuff was really shocking to me but i really when it was happening i thought i know i know these assholes in the media i know what they're doing they they this is an opportunity for them they love this stuff and you're saying that you think that's a big big part of what happened but it happened worldwide that's the thing that astonishes me. Well, I think because the angle of the media was to place fear. Oh, my God, yes. And I think really that was the message.

So if you have an external focus of control and fear is successfully promulgated, then you have the grounds for hysteria, I guess, right? Lack of, you know, there's a sense of helplessness. You feel that everything's out of your control. Oh, gosh. That helps explain to me why people want the government input. They want the masking. They want the lockdowns. I couldn't understand where that was coming from.

Where does somebody, this may it, where does somebody, this may not be an answerable question. I was equally as confused by why someone like Gavin Newsom would want to do that and keep it in place for two years. Like what, what he should want to withdraw all that. That should be his natural instinct. But he seemed to like, I don't know, I want to say enjoy because I can't read his brain. He certainly did not seem to resist the opportunity to completely come down on the california state economy well i my opinion is this is probably a

political answer probably possibly but i think it's he but that political answer might be that all these people were hysterical and wanting him to do stuff so he did it so in that sense it is political right i mean they liked it so to speak god it's just so mind-boggling to mention it really makes me very uncomfortable to even think about that we did this to ourselves and i think we both experienced it like you say for me it was not just shock but it was the anger that individuals weren't taking or being having the internal locus of control. We go back to that to do their own research and studies to see do masks really work. But they were being propagandized so thoroughly that anybody like me,

that Susan was looking yesterday at some of our old guests and a dose of Dr. Drew, which we were doing during the pandemic. And we interviewed a mask engineer, a mask mechanical engineer. And she was screaming that this is not going to work. This is just not how masks work. It's not how it's going to work.

She was not a biologist. She was not infected. She was just, hey, I'm just here to tell you, this is a terrible, this is absolutely a faulty idea. Remember when we couldn't get the PPPs or PPEs and we were putting bandanas over our faces? Oh, yeah, of course. And we thought that was helping? Of course. Stupid, yeah, of course. And we thought that was helping. Of course. Stupid, dumb, stupid stuff.

I mean, literally, like, why didn't we just jump up and down on one foot? Why didn't we just walk around in a circle three times? It's just as much. Exactly. Just as much effect. Despite the evidence right in their faces. And, I mean, I shared, I personally shared research and literature. Oh, they probably crushed you for that.

How dare you? No, I was being selfish. Oh, yeah. You didn't care. I didn't care. They care. So what was that whole thing? Because that was certainly, I heard a lot of that.

You killed grandma. You don't care about grandma. Right. And by the way, where they all went was one death is too many. And I kept saying one death is too many. And I kept saying one death is too many. That is not medicine anymore because medicine is how do you sort of manage risk in such ways to minimize deaths. But one death is too many, period, no more discussion. We are in big trouble.

First of all, excess death is how you define a pandemic. And secondly, practice of medicine is risk reward, which Dr. Redfield has now stated on the record, they completely threw out the window. They had one priority. Stop this thing. No concern with the consequences of what they had done. And you can see it. Lots of consequences.

Oh, my God. So predictable. So predictable. So my friend Kat Timpf over on Gutfeld has said several times on that show, and I have encouraged her to continue the drumbeat, which is that some of us haven't gotten over what they did to us yet. I know I have not. Not that they did anything horrible to me, which they did, but that they were able to do that, and we haven't done anything to change that. It could happen again we've really other than try to raise awareness about how crazy this is and how to maybe generate an internal locus of control and how to be careful of propaganda if you're somebody prone to external locus of control but we have really done nothing

to really prevent this from happening again do you agree with me absolutely i agree with you what do we do i totally absolutely and you're seeing i i think there's a shift um a slow shift from people from the left that are starting to realize that um that the propaganda machine is gone a little bit too far a little bit too far well i new york times today allowed uh was it alicia chan or something to write an article about the covid uh wuhan origin the complete editorial it was comprehensive and well received and supported i thought oh this is i'll subscribe to new york times again if they go back to sanity right but if their editors editorial board has an opinion about anything medical they need to

shut the f up because they they're not clinicians they should have no opinion about what we're doing medically zero zero you are edit You are newspaper editors. You can have your opinion, but to demand something be done, that's that external locus of control. There's one thing, I said this yesterday on a couple days on Twitter's base, is that I trained residents for many years. And I'd always ask them to present their reasoning and document the science behind it and what they would do. And sometimes as they were presenting the stuff, I would think, oh, they just don't have the judgment yet to know that that's not right. But I don't care. Their decision-making will develop, but their thought process was adequate and they substantiated what they were going to say.

They were wrong. Now, what are you going to do? What's your backup plan? And if you don't have at least two backup plans, I will eviscerate you. And that's what I would tell them at the beginning of rounds. It's like, you better have a backup plan because we're all wrong. Even when we have great judgment, we are, we are wrong a lot. And that's when you have a backup plan. So, amen. We are going to take a little break. I'm so taken with what you guys are saying.

And of course, we haven't even touched on canada yet and you're canadian rachel and tom what yeah i will talk about that we are going up to canada to give a talk with a whole bunch of other people on a weekend event called reclaim canada i don't know if you want to bring out the copy on that good luck with that good luck with that and i i um i i was uh i you mentioned that i've been obsessed with history lately but i'm particularly obsessed with the french and um because the french revolution is so pertinent to all this craziness it's just so much the same stuff and uh and during the one of the french scandals emile zola came up with this famous front page article called jacques he was accusing the government of all kinds of stuff i said i'm gonna read that again because i i feel like i could accuse governments of the same thing

turns out it's a very different the dreyfus affair it's a very different thing uh but in there he opens one of his paragraphs with, La vérité est en marche, which is the truth is marching. And I thought, yes, the truth is en marche right now. It's moving. It's marching. And you guys are part of that. And I invite people to disagree.

We disagree with each other a little bit on some of this stuff. I urge them to wait till we get on the air here before we discuss our disagreements uh but this is the process of coming ascending to something like the truth that's our goal to try to get to understanding and uh please disagree always uh let me quickly look at the rants where you guys normally do all the disagreeing um you guys are arguing about climate change over there. That's not what we're talking about. Janice says, we will never forget. Janice, I'm not sure I can ever forget either.

It's just so crazy that they were able to do this to me. It's just so crazy. And that other people aren't as upset about it. That to me is also as mysterious. Let me look at what you're doing. Yes, the cure is not worse than the virus. Thank you, sweet child. Okay.

Okay. So one more look over at the rants, you guys. Yes, they're apologizing for me that they got off subject. Yes, you guys certainly did. You got into, ah, here's a great statement by Claire Cat. Overton's goalposts are being moved.

You know what the Overton window is? The Overton window is the, essentially the window of acceptable discourse. It's a concept. We'll look it up during, maybe Caleb, when we get back from break,

you can just throw up the definition of the Overton window and we'll start out with that. So I want you all to please stay right here and listen carefully. We are so fortunate to have the people that support this show because we are enthusiastic about every single one of them. So stay with it, listen, and support the people that support us here. Of course, I'm a fan of the healthy aging supplement, TruNiagen. I've been taking it almost for a decade myself. This supplement boosts NAD,

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these prescription meds by going to drdrew.com slash TWC to save 15% off. That is $30 off the medical emergency kit. drdrew.com slash TWC for 15% off the kit and any of their kits or their supplements. Do it now. drdrew.com slash TWC for 15% off the kit and any of their kits or their supplements. Do it now, drdrew.com slash TWC. And that's just trouble in a relationship. Sean, who are you? Like Dr. Drew all of a sudden? Caleb has had a whole bunch of clips. But before we get into this telling you about what we're doing in Canada, Susan, hold that for a second.

I want to remind everybody that they are attempting to use their propagandistic powers again to indoctrinate us into some new panic porn. It's the avian flu. It's H5N1. But now there was a case in Mexico of H5N2. It was nasty. Don't even know if it's infectious in people, the person to person, but they're already at it. So that's what we

want to, why we want to give you TWC's kits. It's taking that external locus of control and taking control of it. In other words, you're ready with a kit that's an external control that you can help feel like you're in control of the external environment. So you now, like I said, we put Tamiflu in there because it has some activity against the avian

flu. So take control if you have concerns about what's going on out in the world. Now, speaking about the world, we are going to go to Canada. They are in trouble and it seems to be getting worse since the invocation of the country's so-called Emergencies Act was aimed at truckers who protested during COVID. I think everyone knows about that. First time that it had ever been used. And then debanking dissidents. These government programs promoting assisted suicide for people who are not

terminally ill are underway there. There's a codification of speech laws and surveillance. Next month, June 21st through 23rd, Susan and I are participating in the third annual Reclaiming Canada conference. I believe Dr. McCullough. I believe Dr. Reich is there.

Paul Alexander, who's a firebrand these days, a fire-breathing dragon. You'll be there. You want to hear these guys. And I am going to try to get our psychological friends in here today who are with Trump Derangement Syndrome up there as well. They are. Rachel is Canadian conferences, way to bring together leaders from government, digital platforms, media,

academia, civil society, uh, to address realness from information and censorship and propaganda. The goals come up with a strategy to thwart this, what looks like a track. So some people have fast track to totalitarianism and bring back autonomy, democracy,

freedom, all those good things. Okay. I'll be speaking later with Justin Joe's half's half-brother in the coming weeks. Look for that. The Reclaiming Canada Conference again, June 21st through 23rd in Victoria, British Columbia. Go to weunify.ca, weunify.ca for more information and tickets. Again, that is weunify one word.ca.

So I'm back in the studio at the, our guests, Thomas Pappas and Rachel Morin very kindly came into the studio, which we're delighted with. And it's, there's something about being in studio, particularly when peers are together, that there's an efficiency of conversation that you cannot get through the

zoom. Unfortunately, there's delays and you know, the things like that. So I really appreciate you guys being here. Thank you. You can learn more about the book. Let's put the book up there, Trump Derangement Syndrome.

TDSbook.com and also follow TDSbook on X. And Tom, was there some other place on X you wanted people to follow also? What is it? Bigly MAGA. So I know it's a play on Donald Trump's name. Bigly MAGA. You have that. That's quite a thing. That's on X? That's on X. Okay, Bigly MAGA. So I know it's a play on Donald Trump's name. Bigly Maga. You have that. That's quite a thing.

That's on X? That's on X. Okay, Bigly Maga. Fascinating. So we are going to switch gears a little bit. We're going to talk a little politics. We're going to talk to Abe Hamadeh, who is a candidate for office in Arizona. You can follow his candidacy at ab4az.com. I think we're trying to bring, is he available,

Caleb, to come on in? You can also follow him on X at Abraham Amadeh, H-A-M-A-D-E-H. Abe, welcome. I think you've heard some of the conversation here, but let's first hear about your platform and what you're running for in Arizona. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on, Dr. Drew. That was a fascinating conversation, and it leads me into why I was running. So I'm the son of Syrian immigrants. I served in the U.S. Army. I'm a former prosecutor. And when I first decided to run for office, this was actually after my army deployment back in August of 2021. I came back to a country I no longer recognize. So I was running for attorney general back then. And we had to deal with a lot of the Trump derangement syndrome even

back then too, especially after January 6th. But you look around, our country seems to be collapsing. You can't even speak the truth anymore. If you talk about the border, you're somehow labeled a bigot. But I think Americans are hungry because they understand what's going on. They want truth tellers. And I think that's why they're sticking with President Trump. But now I'm running for Congress. The last race that we ran in, it was decided by 280 votes out of 2.5 million. There's still 9,000 uncounted ballots. And we can talk about

the whole election denialism and how that relates to Trump derangement syndrome too. But here in Arizona, my district, it's really interesting. It's the highest number of seniors and retirement communities in the state. So they're hurting. They're on fixed incomes. They don't know how to make ends meet now with record inflation, with the dollar being devalued by 25% in three years. So people are looking for something new and something different. And you have this wide open border that's affecting so many people across the country. But here in Arizona, particularly, you have these Chilean gangs that are coming in from south of our border and they're burglarizing homes. So it has real world impacts. And I think that's what people need to realize. We have to start

changing course. We need people with courage and who are fearless to take on this deep system that has really betrayed the people they're supposed to represent. So that's why I'm running for Congress. And I hope to join President Trump and Carrie Lake's running for Senate here in Arizona. She's also endorsed my campaign. But, you know, it's time. It's a time for choosing now. We have to take back our country from these people have destroyed it. There's a couple of things.

I've interviewed Carrie Lake, and I just love the way she talks to the press. I hope you take a page from how she addresses her former peers in the press. And same with Vivek. He does the same thing. Just like call them to task. They're getting away with murder. They're not doing journalism. I don't know what they're doing.

But thank you for running. Thank you for your service. And what's interesting, Rachel, I may go to you for a question here, which is Abe is in that age group where this predisposition sort of, right? How old are you, Abe? Do you mind me asking? 33. It's right in the prime TDS, external locus of control difficulty. It's interesting, right?

It is. Not everyone that age has this. No, no. But research indicates that those that have a left-leaning ideology are the ones that have the external locus of control. So it's not surprising to me that Abe is more internal. Interesting. You get that concept, Abe? So in other words, what we would predict is that you don't feel like you're out of control.

You feel like the thing you can control comes from within and you can, you know, adjust based on your own motivations and your own expertise and your own skillset. And we would predict that your parents are certainly together during your childhood. Yes. And that they did not helicopter parent you and they let you fall and bust

your head. and when it's time to go to school, you were on your own. You did it. You just did it. You succeeded if you could. I'm sure they were very supportive and had lots of expectation, but we would predict they did not helicopter, right?

Even though… Individuals who have children… Go ahead. Your mic was out for a second. Oh, okay. Individuals who have an internal locus of control, most likely their parents also have an internal locus of control, most likely their parents are also having, have an internal locus of control.

So Abe, are we predictive? Are we getting close? Seems like, you know, I'm the son of Syrian immigrants. They came here. I was born in Chicago, unfortunately, but my parents came with nothing. They had no money.

We were on food stamps at one point and, you know, through hard work, they achieved the American dream. It's really beautiful to see that, you know, at one were living in a 500-square-foot apartment in Chicago. And now we're blessed. My brother is very successful. And my whole family is too. My sister, she's married to an NBA champion. And it's just the whole rags to riches American dream story. And they instilled in us the idea of hard work and that you determine your future. So I absolutely do agree with that.

You have so much power as an individual. Of course we do. And this country is sort of designed to allow that to flourish, to blossom. I mean, that was Abraham Lincoln's credo, which is create that level playing field so everyone's potential can be fulfilled. But there was a couple uh law professors at yale he was jewish she was chinese and i need to know this story that they started because they were crushed for daring to say this um they noticed that in at yale law school there were certain patterns they were seeing of these kids that were in their classes they were

immigrants parents for immigrants at most second-generation immigrants they had certain patterns there was Nigerian there was Mormon there was Chinese there was Jewish and they started examining doing psychometrics on these kids and what they found was a pattern and, this will sound familiar to you because I'm from an immigrant family too, and it immediately hit me. A, focus on education, numero uno. B, delayed gratification and hard work, B. Three, this one kind of surprised me, but I get it, special purpose. You're here for a purpose and that you're representing more than just you.

And I think there was one more thing, but it didn't strike me quite as vividly as those three. And I thought, oh yeah, that's the immigrant thing in America, right, Abe? Absolutely. So many times I look at immigrants, I feel as if they appreciate our country more than people who are born here. So if you look at what families instill, especially immigrant families, they do instill that all of those things of hard work that you have, you determine your future and education, of course. And, you know, I remember if you got a bad grade growing up, you know, it wasn't going to be a good day for you. But also the idea to give back, you have to give back and be appreciative. And there is a sense of consequence with immigrants. I feel as if it's starting to lose its meaning here. You know, as a, I'm a former prosecutor and you look at the rise of crimes, it's there's so

many people, especially when you're dealing with, um, adolescent crimes, a lot of times they come from broken homes and they don't feel as if there's going to be a consequence for their actions. And then it escalates, you know, until it becomes really dangerous and they start assaulting with a dangerous weapon, for instance. And that's when you have to start locking them up. But it's really goes to break down to the family, I believe. Yeah, that's what I alluded to also with to Rachel is one of the sources that I sense is really going on here. But let's switch gears, Abe, if you don't mind, and talk a little Trump derangement. So I see on the little sign behind you, we get a piece of endorsed over your right ear, under your right ear. Trump endorsed, there

it is. So I'm guessing when Trump endorsed, it changed things in sort of surprising ways for you, I'm guessing. So what did you encounter personally? What did you encounter out in the world? Particularly in the context of this conversation about Trump derangement syndrome, what did you experience? Absolutely. So when I first was running for attorney general, I was also endorsed by President Trump. And up until that moment, I think the reaction with me was like, oh, there's this young guy running for attorney general. They weren't taking me seriously. And then when

President Trump endorsed, man, the propaganda machine were at it. The accusations of being called an election denier. Believe it or not, I was called the white supremacist that was published in all the local papers. Of course. Of know, and it's so... Of course. You're the Syrian face of white supremacy. My friend here that ran for governor was the black face of white supremacy. It was like, what? But keep going. Okay, white supremacy, great.

You have to have a sense of humor in all of this because it's so ridiculous that if you start to get angry and as miserable as they are, it's not a good way to live. And that's why I always tell people I'm a happy warrior, because, you know, in many ways, we have to be honored that we are in this position, that we are placed on this earth for this reason. And you have to, the best warriors are those who fight for what they love.

So, you know, but the media, I mean, after my election loss in 2022, you know, it was decided by 280 votes out of 2.5 million. Any reasonable person would say, okay, you can challenge that election results, which we certainly did. And we're still in the courts, by the way, for it because there's still 9,000 uncounted ballots. But even that, the closest race in Arizona history, suddenly if you decide to challenge your election, the media came after you, election denial, that they're not accepting the results. It was insane. So you start to understand that the propaganda machine is really strong. And I do believe we were talking about COVID. I mean, the COVID time, I was serving overseas in Saudi Arabia with the US Army. And when I got back here to see the

difference over there in Saudi Arabia, they were pretty draconian as well. But it was kind of a worldwide phenomenon of this. I think social media impacted it so much. But here, running for Congress now, once you're labeled a threat to the system, which I believe anybody who Trump endorses is because they understand that that endorsement is the most powerful in American politics and that you are an ally of President Trump, the media is relentless against you. And, you know, Carrie Lake has taught me very well that, you know, how to deal with the media. And I think that's been so helpful. But again, you know, so I don't really care about the opinions of these 24 year old journalists with purple hair who don't know what gender they are. And I think that's kind of the

attitude that I take. It's I know what I know what I stand for. I'm here in this position because of everything I grew up in and what I what I value and what I'm going to fight for. I'm here in this position because of everything I grew up in and what I value and what I'm going to fight for. And it's what I did as an army officer when I took that oath of office to the Constitution. It's what I did as a prosecutor when I went to uphold the laws. But what's really scaring me, though, Dr. Drew, it's seeing, you know, it's not even just my age group. If you look at the prosecution, say, of President Trump or any of his allies, these are people in their 50s and 60s who should know better. And that's what's really worrying me about the people coming out of school nowadays, out of these, you know, Yale or Harvard or any of these universities. You see how militant

they are, whether it's the, you know, Israel-Hamas war. It's really striking that what I believe is Marxism. I think that's what we are fighting right now. So I am genuinely concerned about the future of our country. I understand it's going to be a battle, but I believe it's a battle worth fighting to save the America that we love. The one thing I want to talk to my psychology friends here, Abe, give me a second here, that I've noticed in addition to everything we've been talking about, which we're all kind of on the same page, if not exactly, we're close. Lack of humility, this grandiosity, which seems to fuel the hysteria. But, you know, Joseph Freiman, who I interviewed here, framed it in the scientific community as irrational certitude. We as scientists are supposed to have rational uncertainty

and humility before the evidence and humility before the process. There is no, it's the opposite of humility right now. And maybe that's where I began thinking of the narcissism as so much a part of this. Is it still just the parenting? Well, no. I think individuals who have, again, going back to that locus of control, they're more vulnerable to develop groupthink.

Okay. And groupthink leads to collective narcissism. Oh. And I think that's what we're seeing. Can you indulge me with a little history again? Do you think French Revolution and those kinds of giant or even Russian Revolution is hard for me to think that there was helicopter parenting going on there? But maybe there was. I mean, maybe this is a generational thing.

I think I should explain a little bit. External locus of control has always existed. Yes. I think what we were trying to say is that it's been amplified in the millennials and the Gen Zs. So that's a specific ingredient in our current thing. Exactly. Do you have any thoughts? And this is a very unfair question, but in the sort of,

because I get fascinated by this stuff in the historical back, going back a hundred years, 200 years, what it might've been then to create such a tremendous external focus of, of control. Well, I think a big part of that. Get on that mic. You're, you're way off it now. Just getting way too comfortable here.

That was me. But I, I believe that the, the, you know, political correctness and things that evolved out of early communism and socialism as really, it's just started to, it's reared its head again, you know, and it's something that's evolved over the last hundred years. And it's, I think the purpose behind it was for the leaders to maintain control and power. Of course, you know, it is, is other than guys supporting somebody like Abe, who seems like, you know,

worthy of office uh what else should we be doing to combat this thing except uh addressing the press you guys abe you and carrie and others addressing the press and be vague early and often for their transgressions for their lack of journalistic integrity you go ahead well i i think just getting out and talking to people and trying to have rational discourse with people on the left and acknowledging, validating that there are frustrated. I got to say, it's weird to hear you say that because I thought,

Oh, he means with me. Oh no, wait, am I left anymore? Where is this? I'm not sure. I'm not sure where I am.

Yeah. Well, and I think cause everybody has emotions and experiences regarding this, regardless of their left or right. Yeah. And they and I think because everybody has emotions and experiences regarding this, regardless if they're left or right. Yeah. And they get quite emotional about it. And I think bringing it back to a grounded, common sense, rational discourse is where we need to get to. And I think it will allow people to maybe step back and see that the things that they're complaining about aren't really truly justified but i think with tds what's what's i find um challenging is that these individuals don't identify that they're thinking irrationally or logically right and if you don't see that there's a problem

um but i think it's really important that like you said i think education just identify just to sit down with individuals and say do you see how you're being manipulated? I mean, I wouldn't say it that way, but- Yeah. Well, some of the ice is melting on some of the stories in the press. And Abel, I'll go to you in a second. Hold on. So there is sort of this evolving towards sanity, truth, those sorts of things, which is nice to see. But let me say something, I thought I had that is a terrible thought. I want to identify it as a terrible thought. Oh, look at this. There's no such thing as mass formation psychosis. That's hysterical. This is a terrible thought. And I'm

hoping and praying that Tom is correct. Okay. That it rational discourse and sitting down and sharing, but there's two things things as soon as he said that i thought oh crap i've had two experiences that suggest something different one is 35 years working in a psychiatric hospital when you had irrationality the only thing you could do was a show of force i don't mean to lay hands on i mean like get a big group around that person and have a show of force like like settle down. And it helped them contain themselves. That's how people with external locus of control feel contained.

This is, I'm now bringing my clinical experience in that you may not have had. When they feel out of control, that's why we've established earlier in this conversation, why they like the lockdowns and why they like the masking. It made them feel contained. And safe. And safe. conversation why they like the lockdowns and why they like the masking it made them feel contained and safe and safe and if you can do that in a healthy way rather than in a totalitarian way you can help them feel contained so there's that option the other thing that concerns me as a student of history is that usually somebody comes in and just lays waste. Napoleon, for instance, or Stalin. Or somebody comes in and just does intensive centralization of authority and power.

Let's hope we don't go that route. I'm right. And this is what scares me. This is what I worry about. And I hope we can get to a place where we're just. And I've always fantasized that our common heritage would get us together on a discourse. Abe, what are your thoughts? You're the one who's actually going to go to Congress and hopefully make a difference. Well, I think there is a lot of optimism, too, with the rise of alternative media.

I think that's been the biggest advantage that we've had. If you look at, you know, during the COVID times, I don't remember so much of the alternative media platforms having a voice. So much of it was suppressed. Our Rumble address just came up. Thank you. Caleb is so fast. You mean that? So Rumble's alternative media, Lake Local's alternative media, X has become an alternative media, strangely enough, because it's, you know, supervised for freedom, But keep going. Yeah, absolutely. So you have this different viewpoint that you're able to listen to instead of having it be suppressed. And I think that was the biggest challenge for me looking at somebody

who took that oath to defend our constitution to see if people spoke out against the mask mandates or whatever the government's narrative was that they were canceled. It was so bizarre. I mean, I remember sitting on my deployment, just looking at what's happening in my country, the United States. It was something out of a movie, and it happened so quickly. And so I look around, and you're exactly right. There are still people who won't acknowledge the failures of government, which scares me. But I'm not sure how you could get to those people. And with my race for running for office, many ways I'm trying to win. And I think eventually the truth will come out, but it's really in your face at this point. And they're just refusing to acknowledge reality. So I don't know how else for them to try to resonate with it. But I think that's why we

need accountability. And I'm looking at the COVID select committee. I think that was really important, but there needs to be action with it because I'm very concerned without accountability. The idea of public health is really out the window. And I'm worried about another real pandemic that could affect so many lives that people are not going to take it seriously. That's why government should be held accountable for what they did to us during that time period. Because remember, you had to stand six feet apart at the airport and then you're crammed like sardines on an airplane. I mean, just using like logical sense at the time, I don't know how people, you know, just didn't question authority. And it was, or going down a grocery store aisle with arrows

and one way arrows. So it was so bizarre. And I really want people to understand that I'm running for office. And I believe so many of these Trump endorsed candidates are because we need to rein in this out of control bureaucracy that wants to run our lives instead of giving the American people the freedom that our country was founded on. So I like addressing critics. So I'm going to read one here. I'm going to try to, this millennial Donnie is accusing you of, I can't quite figure out what he or she is saying. It doesn't matter.

Let's keep going here. I'm sorry. I want to try to, she's taking the issue with whether. There's like 400 comments from this one person. Okay. I don't even know which one to put on screen because this person's been putting so many.

There was the one about, I want to address the one about Abe's election, or election, what she's calling interference, just so he can address it. Yeah, I can't find it. It's just too much. That's my favorite topic. Go ahead. You're probably used to it. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Your election denier. Yeah, go ahead. Well, after Maricopa County ran the worst election in Arizona history with 60% of the machines failing. We were down 511 votes out of 2.5

million. So we filed our lawsuit. And at the time, then Secretary of State Katie Hobbs, she withheld evidence, information that there was a huge recount discrepancy in one county, Pinal County. And we were in trial. We weren't aware of it. The judge wasn't aware of it. So they held this information. And so, of course, the media likes to say that none of these elections ever have evidence. Well, we didn't have the evidence because the government withheld the evidence. What was happening was some of the machines were misreading the ballot for attorney general. And that's why you saw that swing from 511 votes deficit to 280, which is a huge swing in one direction. And it's because 75% of voters on election day were voting Republican. And so then you had Maricopa County withhold evidence of the

provisional ballots from us. We asked for it. These are public records. I'm a former prosecutor at that office. So you start to connect the dots. And I've never been in a trial where the government withholds all of the evidence. I was always taught that you have to share the evidence with the opposing counsel, the opposing side. That's what justice is. But with the elections, it was very bizarre. Yeah, I want to give you a chance to respond to this. I found one of their, this is their, they're hanging it all on this one thing. So I want you to respond to it.

Something that the Arizona Republic found a text message of yours, which I find egregious that they were able to get a private text message, but okay. That you said in a private exchange, which I can't believe they feel good about, whatever, that those who believe stolen election claims are crazies. So go ahead, address. It was totally out of context. And I was leaked by my opponent in this Republican primary, Blake Masters, and it was totally classless. And they tried to insinuate that I didn't take this election trial seriously because I was vacationing in Thailand with my brother-in-law.

And I've been in many lawsuits over these past three years fighting for justice of what happened to Arizonans. No, I mean, they call all of us crazies if you question the authority of the government. You know, it was out of context. So, you know, and that's the exact same paper that called me a white supremacist. So I don't take these people seriously. Yeah, I think that's fine.

I just, this is all, this is hysteria, right? Isn't this what we're talking about? So here's Abe. You called somebody, you called them crazies. You called them crazies, Abe. You said it, you said it. That's supposed to mean something when you scream like that at a young lawyer, a officer in the military,

congressional candidate who sits here. I don't know about you all who are ranting on the rants. I can't read minds. I have a young man in front of me who has an ethical set of principles he has to operate from as an attorney, amongst other things, who's telling

me his point of view and what he believes and what he said and what he did and what he's doing and you claim to be able to read his mind. Man, I'd love to meet all those mind readers. I wish I could read minds quite that vividly. It's incredible. Abe, I'm going to let you go and go back to our TDS conversation. I appreciate you playing along and good luck with all this. And if you get to the Capitol Hill, please let us support you and your causes. Absolutely. Thank you all.

All right. Well done. So there it is. There's Trump derangement in full bloom. So a large part of it, hysteria, is this mind reading thing I've noticed where everyone's a liar. Everyone's a liar. You're lying. You're lying. You said this. And no one's allowed either to change their mind or to clarify the context of what they were saying and doing. Those things are not allowed.

That sounds hysterical to me well i think um and i think what you're what we're seeing is again that group think mentality where um individuals i don't know how they're using gas lighting you know the propaganda mission the propaganda machine is in full force when you see that kind of uh behavior and it's everyone's trying to protect themselves. And it comes from the top down. You know, everybody from the, what is it, the mega donors, the plutocrats, the bureaucracy. But I think it's the absence of that critical thinking that happens during group thinking.

And you can still not vote for Abe and not like Abe. Exactly. No problem. No problem. That's the system. I love that. But if you want to belong to the in-group you're going to believe everything they say but you have to become hysterical you have to but that's the

collective narcissism that's the collective narcissism do you have to narcissism tell me more about collective narcissism because i'm not used to that concept quite so much except in like lebon's uh theory of the mob the crowd of thing. Well, there's that in-group exceptionalism. Tribe, yeah. Right? Yeah. Oftentimes these individuals will engage in very hostile behaviors because they don't tolerate opposing opinions

because that's how they maintain that superiority, I believe. Yeah, the superior status. Feeling of superiority. Yes, yes. Yeah, and that feeling of superiority is something that is then reinforced by the group, right? Exactly. You're right, yes. It is a sociological principle, but you can see how that sort of grows from the group

think, the narcissism. Maybe that's why I began thinking that narcissism is the underlying phenomenon because I see, I see that I see the envy and the rage and all this stuff. But how does one become narcissistic or narcissistic traits? Cause we have to define the difference between personality disorder versus traits. So how does one become narcissistic to begin with?

And that's why I bring you right back to that external locus of control because you don't just have or born with these traits. Right. So you are having those experiences of helplessness early and often in life. Exactly. So in my world, we always called that narcissistic injury. Okay. And that's sort of what I was reared on was that notion and that those narcissistic injuries led to narcissistic defenses and narcissistic traits. And sort of emotional dysregulation, external locus of control, looking for getting what you can get from the environment to buttress against those internal feelings of smallness and helplessness. Does that all fit? I think we're talking about

the same phenomenon. Maybe labeled a little bit differently. We are, absolutely. One of the terms in psychology we refer to is called self-efficacy. And Tom, if you want to define that, I think Dr. Drew sort of explained it a little bit, but from a psychological perspective. Well, absolutely. It's people that, you know, if you feel like you can fulfill your own destiny, if you have the, you're going to meet the goals

that you feel like you've set for yourself. And a lot of times, I think people with external locus tend to set the bar a little too high for themselves and they don't attain those goals, which leads to anxiety and frustration. Oh, interesting. And the rage and the envy.

Absolutely. And then there and the envy. Absolutely. And then there's that cognitive dissonance between what I think I can do and what I'm able to do. Dunning-Kruger, we call that too. Do you ever heard Dunning-Kruger phenomenon? It's the opposite of the imposter effect, essentially. It's that people, when they know a little something about something, they way overestimate what they know.

And then when they actually know more, become more towards expertise, that's when they start feeling like an imposter. Right. They don't know anything, which is more realistic. Yes, absolutely. Because you start to realize how big things are. How little you know when you start to learn. Exactly. Right.

So there's several kind of roads to narcissism these days. I've also noticed that, particularly with young males, that overindulgent helicoptering moms around age three to five tend to get to the males. They tend to, they become big old monsters after that if mom isn't too careful in setting limits with the kid. You've seen that? We've seen that a little bit, yeah, absolutely. That's all part of the helicopter parenting.

And there was, of course, something else. This is the second time my aging brain got kicked in here that i was going to bring something else up about the phenomenology of uh narcissism envy envy you know when i when i think about so much uh when i when this all started happening when i started seeing this come on uh envy was the thing that concerned me the most because envy is such a destructive emotion. It's the thing that caused you not just to be jealous, but to want to knock somebody else down. And that's what you're saying. And that's where the rage and the stuff gets acted out. You got to bring people down.

You're envious of. And that's why every religion on earth has an injunction against envy because you know religious precepts you know included uh social functioning and they knew that envy was one of the greatest uh barriers to good social and by the way happiness and well-being and all these other things gratitude is another thing that seems to be missing these days um is that part of your thing i think again we talk about that overindulgent parent that has provided everything for their children when we're talking about susan's laughing out loud are you reading something are you laughing at what we're saying on rumble we have a troll yeah and every

time i i knock them off of rumble another one comes up with a funnier name. So it's kind of funny. It's really not a nice person. But we've all decided they have TDS. Well, they have this external locus of control, and they have to act it out. This is this impulse. I've noticed that there's this need to act out, this anger. That's what needs to be put a stop to. Somebody said you might really be over the target today, which is why the why the acting out behavior comes in yeah i think that's

right that's what you tend to see is that uh people really when when and this is when we have to i'm sorry but this we have to stand and by the way i i would defend whatever that current name is of that troll is right to say these things, act these things out, do whatever I'll defend you to the, and to say whatever you want to say, I will defend you.

But when you become destructive, I have an obligation to stand up more firmly and to stop you from being hurtful to other people and destructive that you can't do that. You don't get to harm other people. I feel like the golden rule has been something that's just been washed away in recent years and we need to just that's the simplest thing to me if we just bring that back absolutely yeah so i'm impressed we only have one though maybe it's a whole little camp or maybe it's an ai dot bot who knows uh but uh i think

mockery right now is one of the most important tools and have at it guys. Don't just ignore trolls mock them because that's what gets them to kind of stop in their tracks. They can't tolerate the, would that be the shame? They can't tolerate shame at all. And so if you criticism,

if you get through with the mockery, they tend to go away. Okay. Let's leave it at that. I could talk to you guys all day about a variety of topics. I hope you will join us in Canada if we can put that together. Absolutely. Let's just try to continue this conversation from multiple angles.

And let me be super humble and super clear. We could be wrong about all this stuff. We could have misidentified and misconstructed what we're talking about here in terms of the phenomenology of these things. I am always prepared to change my opinion. But it's interesting to me how well-trained people are kind of coming to the same conclusion all at once, all at the same time. And it becomes inescapable. Again, I don't know if you saw Dr. Redfield today starting to talk about the Wuhan source from the lab, like, oh, shocking. And that so many of the things that he was responsible for turned out to be wrong.

And he's, quote, trying to be honest about it. And I think he is trying to be honest. What I'd like to know is why he allowed people to be crushed under the weight of his propaganda machine in response to having the opinions that he's now speculating are to be true. So is there any last minute, last of things you'd like to close with any thoughts, any places you'd like people to go and things you'd like people to do in response to all this?

Well, I think just everybody should take a deep breath, try to sit back, relax a little bit and be nice to your neighbor, you know, and just try to understand where they're coming from and that things aren't as bad as they're made out to be. Get the book.

Get the book. Absolutely. Thank you, Dr. Drew. Anything else? That's it? Rachel, no final words? Tom says it. Tom always says the final words.

Oh, I don't know about that. She's painting a different picture here. It doesn't work quite like that. I appreciate you guys being here. Thank you for coming into the studio. We appreciate it all. Susan, any thoughts before we wrap up here? We're going to go over the schedule a little bit.

You're laughing again. I can't even tell you what this person's name is. I hope they enjoy. After the show, I'll mention it to you. I'm looking it up. I'm looking here because it's too good. You're laughing. I see you laughing on the stream too.

Okay. In any event, Caleb, let's put the upcoming schedule're laughing. I see you laughing on the stream too. Okay. In any event, Caleb has put the upcoming schedule up there. Thank you for our producers, Emily, Caleb, Susan. Coming up tomorrow,

the Pfizer whistleblower. This should be interesting in the context of people now accepting what Joe Fryman has been telling us and the UK now moving towards and understand, you know, some concerns about the excess test. Wait, you mean there is excess test for the last three years? I thought there weren't. There has been, we can actually say it out loud. Now people, you should really be, you should be, I don't know.

You should check yourself if you're, if you're silencing people for having any opinion, frankly, Winston Marshall from Mumford and Sons, you saw him addressing Nancy Pelosi at the Oxford Club. Naomi Wolf, Brian O'Shea, Patrick, David. We've got a bunch of great guests coming up. And I've been, poor Emily, I've been throwing her even more. We may start cramming people in here and there that we want to hear from.

Tom Renz was out at large today. Support him. He's looking for support from our world. So please check him out. You can follow him on Twitter. I think it's at RenzTom. I'm afraid I remember R-E-N-Z. All right, everybody.

Thank you for being here. We'll see you. Today is Wednesday. We'll see you tomorrow at 3 o'clock Pacific time. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine

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