Ask Dr. Drew - Trust The Silenced: The Vaccine Injured Tell Their Stories w/ Dr. Ram Yogendra – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 226

Episode Date: June 5, 2023

Airplane pilots going into cardiac arrest. Celebrities vanishing for weeks and cancelling world tours. Athletes dropping without explanation. Are they all connected? In this special episode with Dr. Ram Yogendra, the “vaccine injured” reveal why they believe mRNA treatments for COVID-19 are to blame for their suffering – and why major powers seem desperate to keep them silenced. Dr. Ram Yogendra is a board-certified anesthesiologist. Find more at https://CovidLongHaulers.com 「 SPONSORED BY 」 • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome everybody should be an interesting show today. Romney O'Gender comes back, you know, Dr. O'Gender, he's an anesthesiologist who has been working in and around a doctor of Patterson's world where they're working on long COVID and some of the hypotheses as to how that has happened, they are on the verge of publishing several papers on this. And they've had a lot of experience now, uh, treating long COVID and vaccine injuries, so I thought it was time for an update from him. And to sort of bring this

to life a little more, I asked a friend of mine to come in here, a gentleman I've known for many years, actually since college, who had a severe vaccine injury. And I just wanted you to hear his story. I've now seen many vaccine injuries and of course, many cases of long COVID as well. So these are very vivid clinical experiences for me. And I think when you hear Howard's story, you'll come to understand how vivid this is for some people. So let's get right to it. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre.

A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin, ridiculous. I'm a doctor for. Where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician.

I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. You have trouble, you can't stop, and you want help stopping, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop, and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say.

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Just go to GenuCell.com slash Drew. Use the code Drew for an extra discount and free priority shipping. Again, that is Genucel.com slash Drew. G-E-N-U-C-E-L.com slash D-R-E-W. And welcome, everybody. Again, as I say, I'm excited to get into today's show. Let me bring back our friend, Dr. Ram Yogendra. Ram, welcome to the program.

There we are. So give us a little update, what you've been up to since we last talked to you. Yeah, so, you know, we're still doing, you know, collecting data, still studying the long COVID syndrome or the pathology behind it. We're at a point now where we actually, this morning, we finalized our clinical trial design. It's a phase 3, 505B2 clinical trial. The next step is now submission to the FDA, where we will work with the FDA in, I guess the simple way of doing is sort of getting their input and feedback and quote

unquote, their blessing. Um, and we've already got, can you tell me what's in the trial, what you're, what you're using to treat long COVID? Yeah, the trial is where we're looking at the CCR5 antagonist, Maravirac, um, with, uh, atorvastatinastatin, which we've been really observing the clinical response about the past few years. And it's very interesting when we start talking about our understanding of long COVID in the past two plus years now has evolved with not only our research, but many other groups coming in. I think sort of the understanding is there is a vascular inflammation taking place and subsequently a multiple different factors

are now taking place. And so it's not this magic, there's no one magic pill, there's no one explanation for the pathology of post- or long COVID. And we really come to really understand that now. Yep. You know, what's interesting is Dr. Ryan Cole, who's the pathologist that has been reporting on so many of the spike protein effects in pathology specimens. And I told him, I said, look, you know, the way I've experienced this clinically, I think of it as an endotheliitis. And he said, that is exactly what we're seeing pathologically. And when you say it's vascular inflammatory, I really do believe that it is somehow injuring the integrity of the endothelium

that in interaction with the macrophages and activation of cytokines, that's where you're getting this inflammatory process. Absolutely. where you're getting this inflammatory process absolutely and and that and those findings are now being corroborated and published by multiple groups uh around the world so i think there's there's sort of a growing consensus but what's interesting is is sort of still what is causing the pathology what is driving it is it the spike protein is it the monocytes is it the combination or quite frankly something else that's taking place here. So I think we're sort of starting to get our minds around that and a good handle of who

is going to respond to certain medications and who are not. And you're treating long COVID from vaccine injury and from the virus itself, and probably from both. Yeah, it's really interesting. Yeah. So, you know, we didn't, you know, we never set out to look at patients having vax issues. But one of the things is when we started looking into patients with post-COVID or long COVID, we started hearing from patients coming and saying, look, we got one of these COVID vaccines and we're having a persistent reaction. You know, we're told about a week or two is expected,

but these are patients now experiencing three months, six months, and then subsequently two years now they've been suffering. We're really starting to look into that. Okay. So with that as the preamble, I'm going to have you step out for a second. And I'm going to bring in my friend Howard. He will just now be known as Howard, but I've known him for many years. He was an extremely active television and movie writer, producer, director, showrunner, and a prolific novelist who sometime ago got a vaccine and uh had such a nasty reaction it upset me so much

i stopped calling him because i felt responsible as a medical provider but let's bring in howard howard thanks for coming in tell your story sure true first you ghost me and then you want me on your show so i know well that's how that's how I work with all my friends. Now, if you, if you're going to spend time with me, it's going to be on the streaming program. So it's good. It's good to look. It's good to see you smiling and laughing because when you first had this thing, you were not sounding that way.

Yeah, no. And now, now, you know, that's my way of dealing with everything ultimately is to find ways to laugh at it. I'm also, I'm, I wasn't angry then now I'm angry. Actually, we can to laugh at it. I wasn't angry then. Now I'm angry, actually. We can get to that later. You were the angry one. Interesting.

Yeah. So the pre-story here is that my neurotic way of dealing with the pandemic was to get into the very best shape of my life. Every single morning, I walked for an hour. And then in the afternoon, I did 20 minutes of strength and then another hour on the stationary bike. And even lost that 10 pounds that we all always want to lose. I mean, I just thought if this thing hits me because I have asthma, not terrible, but enough that even if I had a cold, it would turn into an opera. And I just wanted to be in the best shape to fight this off. I want to say a couple of things because now I feel like I'm here with

the pirates today. So I sort of want to just put my own bona fides out there. I'm not an anti-vax person. I've never been. Until now, when I can't, I got a flu shot every year. They were extremely beneficial to me. I'll even put out there, I voted for Joe Biden. I sent money to Joe Biden. I, you know, I'm, I'm, there's, there's nothing. I'm even not anti-COVID vaccine. Howard, you, you're, you're living, you're living in the digital world where it's impossible to make anybody happy.

So, so I am, I am certainly not anti-vax. I still continue to vaccinate my elderly patients. I continue to prescribe Paxlovid. And for that, most of the people that listen to this podcast, this stream, cannot forgive me. They're infurious with me that I haven't forsaken this. And I've had a lot of experience with patients like you, and yet I still see the net benefit in the elderly patients. I'm less clear in a 30-year-old male where,

and myocarditis and other things kick in, I just want to get it right. And I think people have to understand the spectrum of what I think about when I worry about vaccine reactions. I worry about stuff like you. So keep going. You're in good company. Okay. So, you know, when the vaccine came out, I right away, as soon as we were able to get it, we got our first two doses of Moderna. The first one, all I had was a sore arm. Second one, I had one very, very bad day, fever, chills. It knew every place in my body I'd ever had a problem if I'd had a surgery I'd had pains there I had a badly sprained ankle like 15 years ago all of a sudden that was hurting it was wild and then the strangest thing was these these powerful very brief headaches like spikes through my head like it was incredibly painful for a second or two and then they'd go away with no

after pain or anything. And then the next morning, I felt healthier than I ever did in my life. I went out for my walk. I said, this is great. I never had anything come on and go that quickly. So then they started telling us that they were wearing off quicker than they hoped and people should get boosted. And when, as soon as we were eligible for the boosters, you know, that one bad day did not, and this becomes important in the story later and how I've evolved on this a little bit, that one bad day didn't dissuade me at all from getting it again. The messaging all was very, very clear and it's still out there now. If you have a bad short-term reaction, that's a good thing. That means it's working.

That means it's creating antibodies. You know what? I've forgotten that piece of the story, Howard, but now that you bring it up, I remember that vividly, that we were saying that's your immune response. That is you getting this robust reaction, and now you need to do it again. Yeah, and that's still there, by the way,

if you go on the CDC website. I mean, that's still the messaging that's out there. So then I went, probably whatever it was, six, eight months later that we were eligible to get the booster, first week in December, one was, that's probably what you're going to get this time. That seems to be what everybody has. So my wife who only had a sore arm, only had a sore arm. I had the same one terrible day. Next morning I go out for my walk. I get about two blocks in and go, something's not right here. It just wasn't the right energy in my legs. I just was feeling tired. And I walked about 15 minutes to the coffee shop where I often work. And I sort of rested there for an hour and then managed to get myself home. And then from there, it just sort of kept getting a little worse, a little worse. One thing that I usually forget to describe, you know that feeling you get when you're about to get sick,

or maybe you don't, where you have that day where it's like, okay, double up on vitamin C or whatever you do, because you just feel generally discomfort. I felt that, and by the way, I felt that every second of every day for six months. And that was one of the first things. And then incredible fatigue right away. I'm taking two, three naps a day. And then this weakness in my legs, walking. And then cognitive issues. And, you know, brain fog as people talk about trouble retrieving words. As it got worse, that was really awful. Because obviously, as you introduced what I do, I make my living with my mind. That's my work all day as a writer. I couldn't do any of that. At the worst, one of the worst moments I remember was opening my bank statement and

staring at it for minutes, trying to remember what I'm supposed to do with it. I mean, it was, you know, that level of non-function. And that continued for a while. So now I went into sort of five weeks as a medical mystery because every doctor, starting with my GP, who I think is an excellent doctor and still do, none of them had heard about anything like this happening. He had heard about, you know, people having effects for a week or so, you know, and he said, I guarantee you in a week, you know, you had it on Thursday, a week from the following Monday, you're going to be fine. And then I wasn't. So then he started

running tests. And the one thing from the vaccine that of course they thought maybe it was, was myocarditis, did an echocardiogram, ruled that out. He was sure this had nothing to do with the vaccine and that it was just a coincidence of timing. Finally sent me to a pulmonologist out of some concern, just wanting to rule out that I had a blood clot in my lung or something terrible like that. Went to the pulmonologist. He ran a bunch of tests, comes back in the room and says, you don't have any of those things that your doctor's concerned about, but you are sick. And I said, what is it? And he said, very matter of fact, I should preface too by saying,

this was the head of pulmonology and intensive care at sort of the top hospital in our area. So my doctor sent me to him saying, if it does have anything to do with COVID, this is the guy you'd want to see because he's the one who would know. He looks at me very matter-of-factly and says, it's vaccine-induced long-haul COVID. To which my reaction was, that's a thing? Everyone's telling me that's not a thing, right? And he says, yeah. He said, I've seen three or four cases already. He said, you're the first one I've seen get it from the booster who did okay, got through the first two shots, but then had it come from the booster. And he said, it's going to be a long time that you're sick. I mean, he was sort of very, he was more grave than, I think I was so relieved not to have a blood clot in my lung that I sort

of figured this isn't going to be so bad. He said, you're going to be sick for six to 12 months and maybe well more than that. He said, I have patients with traditional long haul who are well past a year and getting desperate. He said, but you will get better slowly. He said, there's nothing I can do for you for any of these symptoms except the shortness of breath. I'd been getting chest pains and more and more difficult. That was the scariest part, right?

Is that I was, you know, at the first week, it was like if I walked 20 yards, it felt like I'd sprinted 20 yards. Then it was like that just from sitting and having a conversation like this. Then it was just sitting watching TV and it was getting worse and worse. And he said, I can help you with that, but I'd have to hospitalize you. So, you know, keep my number. And I didn't ask him any follow up on what that would mean. But then it was into the game of, OK, how much worse do I let this get before I'm an idiot not to go into the hospital?

Which of course, this was still enough in COVID times. Nobody wanted to be in a hospital who didn't need to be there. And he said, do whatever you can to avoid getting COVID on top of this. Right. And I think that's it for that. And then, so then it was, oh, oh, I know prednisone. That was the first thing. So one of my other doctors, very smart, had said, this sounds like whatever this is, is some sort of inflammatory response and that maybe, of course, prednisone would help. So he agreed it was worth a try. He said, I don't expect it to help. For two weeks through the prednisone, it kept getting worse. And then a few days after the prednisone, fortunately, blessedly, that shortness of breath just lifted and has never come back.

It's the one symptom that just went away clean, which may or may not have had to do with the prednisone. They weren't fine to say. So then, you know, I saw different doctors. There were, I was frustrated with that, I have to say. There were some who just rejected the notion that this was what it was, you know, and when I would tell them the doctor's name who, you know, then they sort of it just seemed like a general disbelief among friends. And, you know, and as you've sort of suggested a little bit in, or maybe you didn't, in the business we're in, it's sort of a political monoculture, you know, and the good people all knew that you don't have a problem with the vaccines, that they're all perfectly good. And the only people who are raising issues with them are sort of suspect.

So, you know, I was kind of an inconvenient and dubious character in my illness, I think, except for people who were really very close to me. And I just sort of worked my way back on my own. I tried, you know, I tried a number of different things. You suggested fluvoxamine, which I think helped you maybe early, and that didn't do anything. It helped me. It helped me with long haul. Yeah. A few things.

The one, it wasn't until eight or ten months in that I tried a small dose of Ritalin every morning, and that made a huge difference with the cognitive problem. But the rest, I just sort of built my own way back. When they told me it was safe to exercise as long as I don't push it, I would do that five-minute shuffle to the corner and back. And when that got comfortable enough, I'd add a second one a day, then a third one, and I'd add a minute to one or another of them, and then started consolidating until I finally got to where I could walk a slow hour at a time. And then I started adding some strength work again. And the bike, the bike was a killer.

I did, because I should say too, I started finding online communities of people because I thought, you know, the doctors don't seem to know anything out here. But Science Magazine, a week after that diagnosis, exactly a week, came out with an article talking about this phenomenon, that some people were having long-haul symptoms from the vaccine. And that was the first time where I saw, oh, here are a couple of researchers' names, here are some vaccine-injured people and groups to start following. And so that is a way that I sort of kept tabs on everything myself and saw that there were a lot of different things that would work for some small number of people, but other people would say, I've tried that and that didn't do anything for me. And I, I, one, one thing that they often said though, was that people sort of caused a relapse by over-exercising. And so I was very

careful. So when I started doing the stationary bike, literally I did one minute and then I did the next day, did one minute and then the next day it to two minutes. And I thought I was going to die. So I stayed at two minutes for like a week or two until I could do that. And then added to three minutes. And over the course of all of this, at 15 months, I got up to where I could do an hour on the bike too. So with all of my sort of slow self-designed recovery and with the help of the Ritalin, I was able at about eight months to start writing. I'd say at 11 or 12 months, I got to where I was describing myself as 80 to 90% recovered. But then I plateaued there for a few months. So that was a little frustrating. It was

like the good news was I could have some semblance of my life as I was experiencing it in the before times, but I wasn't quite getting there and I didn't know when or ever. And then at 15 months exactly, I had to have a very small unrelated surgical procedure where they put me out for 15 minutes with propofol. And that knocked me back to square one so literally on monday i did 60 minutes on the stationary bike tuesday i had the surgery on thursday i could barely shuffle to the corner and back again did you need any kind of prep for that surgery could it have been the prep that somehow affected you because i'm i don't understand how propofol would have done that there was no prep or anything okay no no the other thing which did something like that in a much smaller version was at six months i had half a glass of wine

and that felt the next day like i'd been knocked backwards about two months and it took me about three weeks so interesting so i there's something about alcohol in this whole thing too i i noticed when i had long hauler and i had a very strange pulling empty feeling, like I was something pulling me down. Did you have anything like that, like an empty feeling inside? It's a very odd feeling. Well, that was me. And the alcohol would make, one glass of wine would make that go away, and two glasses of

wine would destroy me, much like you're describing. Very weird. Very, very weird. So, okay. I will say. And then you had a little setback, right? Awesome, or recent setback? Well, that was the setback.

Not really, that was three months ago, knocked me to square one. And again, like I say, this is the kind of thing where I really feel very fortunate that we have the kind of online community like Reddit. Let me throw this out there. The Reddit group called, I think it's called Vaccine Long Haulers, is quarantined. There's no reason this should be. If anyone's listening from Reddit,

please take that out of quarantine. This is a real thing. You don't have to pretend like this was two years ago and people are... But in that group, that's a great place where you can say, I just had this happen. Has anybody had any experience with this? You know, and, and one of the people who said yes and directed me to some study that, that there are some people who've developed, um, through this, um, through, and through long haul intolerances to alcohol and or caffeine and or, uh, anesthesia. Fortunately, caffeine, I'm okay with drinking a little ice fortunately are you still are you still on the ritalin or did you stop that too yes yes and fortunately that ritalin made the cognitive setback much less so that has only

felt like i got knocked back about six months instead of 15 so so interesting and have you messed around with the dose of the ritalin no i don't i i don't love being on it you know and i i chose that over adderall because when i read a little bit it goes into and out of your system quicker and i thought this would be a little milder and i you know i i this makes you a little anxious too i have to say this has been anxiety increased anxiety has been an issue with this of course of course that's it's a stimulant you know that's how that works but then you add your caffeine in there and you get a nice no i mean but but i don't mean that i don't mean anxiety from the ritalin i mean the anxiety from the from the long haul so i thought

that was my concern was that i'm i didn't really love adding stimulant on top of. I see. Got it. Got it. So here's what I want to do. I want to take a little break. Then I'm going to bring Dr. Ogender in here to discuss your case like you're not here. And then he may have some follow-on questions for you. And we're going to get to take calls off of Twitter spaces for everyone to interact on this topic. But before we go break how insane is it that we that this conversation has to be the least bit uh quarantine to use the word it's just insane to me yeah yeah it really is but but but you know like i say i've i've gotten a little bit angry about all this too should we talk about that you want to talk about that later or tell me no tell me what you're angry about.

Your show. Because that'll get people calling in. Okay, good. So one thing I should say, there are very few physical manifestations of this you can measure. I have these rings under my eyes. I saw a photo of myself a month before

and a month after the vaccine, and I looked like I'd aged five years. This all went more white. The one thing in all of my blood work, and I've done extensive blood work, is that my antibodies, I always have them do an antibody test to see if it's still off the charts. They measure it in, I think they measure it in units per milliliter, and they'll give you a number up to 2,500. But if it's over that, they just say over 2,500. After 15 months, I was still there, which takes me back to that thing about the messaging about if you're having a bad reaction, right?

This is a good thing because it's your body creating antibodies. Well, if we didn't have a situation like we have where everybody had their foot on the gas the way they did for the vaccine, and this is getting a second to what I'm angry about, you go, you know, maybe somebody would have said, hey, maybe a better messaging is if you had a bad reaction before you get a booster, are you in an at-risk group? Or do you want to go get an antibody test to see if they're actually low and if you need more? Because I think I went in and got the third dose and overdosed. But physicians were not allowed to use their judgment

or do their job. This is, of course, what I'm talking about, is that I'm trying to analyze risk-reward for every age group and every situation clinically with this thing that is not, yeah, it's mostly effective and it's mostly safe, but not exclusively so. And my job is to get that risk-reward right. And if you're not allowed to think it through, you're going to hurt people. And so absolutely, I'm furious about this. And that's on the physician side. On the just

general public side, two things I want to point out. One that really started me down this path of wanting to go back and read more and read what was happening at the time was Matt Taibbi's discoveries in the Twitter files about this virality project and the idea that the CDC and Stanford University came up with a group that would do all they could to tamp down any information on media or social media that might contribute to vaccine hesitancy, whether true or not. I saw that as I'm sitting there sick with this relapse and my head starts exploding. Because I'll tell you one more thing, which is that if you go on the CDC website now and

ask if the vaccine is safe, they tell you it's safe, that in rare cases, there are four side effects, four serious things that can happen. It's the clotting thing that you had, it's the myocarditis, it's Guillain-Barre, and I think the fourth is anaphylaxis. And they don't mention what I got. You know, I'm a year and a half into being sick. I don't know what the hell, you know, having another surgery, having a colonoscopy is going to mean the trade-off is I can't walk again the next day. You know, not walk again ever, but that, you know, this has made my life much

smaller. We don't know for sure that I'm, you know, I know I'm going to get better, but as my doctors confirm, when I ask, I said, do we know that I'll ever get all the way? Well, and we don't know that. And we know that it's already hampering some of my other medical, you know, um, preventative care that I normally would be doing. Yeah. I think this and Howard, you need, we need to bring, we need to bring you, we need to bring you over to this stream and our podcast because I've been

interviewing all the people that they silenced because they all had something to offer to help fill. Okay, good to fill out, fill out our understanding of what was going on here that none of us were allowed to bear witness to, or even talk to even think about let alone talk about so it's a disgusting period of history i mean you your

writer brain kicked in and called it covid times i'm reminding of love in the time of cholera this is a this is uh you know what long hauler in the time of covid or something i this is this is something for you to write about one day, yes? Yes. Yes. Yes. I'll come back. All right, so there's some positive. Some positive will come out of this.

But I will take a little break here, and when we come back, it'll be Dr. Yogendra and I, and then we'll bring Howard back in and your call. So stay with us. Be right back. A lot of you have been asking for more information about how to counter the adverse effects of the spike protein from COVID infections and the COVID vaccine. The spike protein is not your friend. Let's just say that.

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birchgold.com slash drew to get your free info kit on gold. That is B-I-R-C-H-D-O-L-D dot com slash D-R-E-W. Welcome back, everybody. So I'm going to bring in Dr. Yogender here. We're going to have a conversation about what we just heard, our little case, and then we'll get to your calls. I see your hands up over there, so I will get to you guys. So, Dr. Yogender, was that similar to what you've been hearing out there, both from the long haul side from the virus and from the vaccine? Yeah, that's very common. I think it was very interesting that what Howard said was what's on the CDC website, sort of the common or expected

reactions, the Guillain-Barre, the myocarditis, clotting, the other one, I think there are four things. We are actually, we're seeing, see most of those patients that are going to experience that, they're more acute, they're going to end up in the emergency room, going to the doctor in the hospital, right? And a lot of times they're going to be immediately treated. Why not? We are getting the patients that are three months post-vaccine, six months post-vaccine, 12 months. So we haven't seen any cases of myocarditis. I mean, we've seen them, you know, they had a previous episode post-vaccine induced myocarditis, but we're not treating the myocarditis. We're not treating the Gambara or any of these the common the vaccine uh side effects that are on the website

exactly we're seeing exactly yeah but they they are not they are not including reactions that ruin people's lives and are disabling you know what's interesting you know when i listen to howard talk about both his initial reaction to the first couple of vaccines and then the more longer term thing as somebody who also had long term long-term covid a long haul kind of thing i i i can relate very strongly to what he said about not being a hundred percent i still and so i'm thinking i still have a little bit of that like like when i exercise vigorously i kind of lose it in ways that i i thought maybe i'm getting older or something, but I just very much like what Howard's talking about. Just a couple of days ago, I experienced that I went

out and trained my ass off, able to do the training next day, destroyed. And that's not normal for me. That's kind of weird. And so, and it's kind of been like that since I had long collar, like whatever it was two and a half years ago, three years ago. And so it makes me think that this endothelial inflammation causes a diffuse injury, almost like a subclinical diffuse injury to essentially everything, especially brain. And so brain takes a long time to heal, right? And so I'm wondering if that's a way to think about this or am I off base here? I think you're absolutely right. I mean, our hypothesis has always been the endothelialitis slash vascular inflammation. What we found was the spike protein from both the post-COVID patients

and the vaccine patients, you know, the papers that were published previously by our group headed by Dr. Patterson, we found them in the monocytes and the monocytes act as almost like these Trojan horse or garbage truck that is able to cross the blood. It's known in the literature that specific type of monocyte crosses the blood brain barrier and has a very strong affinity to blood vessels. So what we're finding is some patients having the spike proteins in the monocytes and or abnormal elevations of those vascular monocytes consistently in the post-COVID vaccine groups. And interestingly, we're seeing that now with, you know,

some of the, you know, I guess it's a bigger question of what exactly is the pathogenesis behind both long COVID and post-vaccine. See, here we're talking about symptoms here, right? And we all know that symptoms don't necessarily, I mean, multiple etiologies and pathophysiological explanations can explain these same symptoms. And there's right now no, quote unquote, approved diagnostic tests that someone can say, I have post-COVID, I have post-vaccine, I have ME-CFS. And I think that is sort of, that's the other piece of the puzzle here. And I think the much bigger issue here, and, you know,

our group is working very closely with some top government officials. Obviously, I'm not privy to disclose who they are. But what we are hearing from Washington and the government is that there is a big concern that because there is no, quoteunquote diagnostic test or approved diagnostic test for any of these syndromes or situations that there's a deep concern about disability to someone that has post-COVID or post-vaccine issues. To quote the almost, not verbatim, but to paraphrase a high-level government official, what they told us was any fat smoker in the United States that has COVID or received the vaccine can come out and start saying they have disability. And that's the major concern here. So hearing that was really an eye-opening.

Maybe why there's potentially, you know, there's a like hesitancy about exploring the vaccine issue. Really, even the long COVID stuff, we haven't really made a lot of progress. I mean, as a giant medical scientific community. Yeah. So I am very sympathetic to the over utilization of disabilities of various type, nowhere more so than California where it's out of control however to draw the line here is disgusting and a bias and frankly it's it's a discriminatory it's actively discriminatory so somebody like my friend Howard can't even step up and go hey you know I can't write the way I used to it just you're not allowed to say anything that is disgusting and the government take document what they're saying because it might have historical

significance one day i mean we're as as howard mentioned we're finding out one thing after another about how i i don't have a strong enough word for it i'm using word like biased and discriminatory because that's exactly what it is but that's not even strong enough in my opinion it's it's ignorant it's an ignorance and it's a willful ignorance and it's an ill willful ignorance which is the opposite of scientific science requires open-mindedness to objective truth and this is willful ignorance and it just disgusts me and it's so much a part of what we've been going through for the last three years let's bring howard back in if you don't mind uh howard i just want to give you a chance to follow on with dr what dr yogender said and if you have any questions for him and then if not what if so either way what

i'm going to do is i'm going to go to calls here on our twitter spaces and if any of us have a response to the caller because there's multiple voices here and delays and things i'll ask you just to kind of raise a finger if you want me to call on you. But Howard, any response to Dr. Yogendra's comments? No, it was interesting to hear, but bring on the callers. Okay. Well, the callers are reacting, actually. This is... Yeah, go ahead. Drew, I just want to mention, so just to follow up what you had said, and it's really what... The first thing that Howard mentioned, said, he talked about his political affiliation. He then went on with a disclaimer that he's pro vaccine. We are, I can't remember ever.

We, when we were talking about medicine and science and, and we're just having, trying to have an open discussion that people start talking about. And, and I mean, Howard, I completely get what you're, what you're saying, but I'm saying we're living this time. We understand it. I gave a disclaimer right after his, yo, yo, I mean, Howard, I completely get what you're saying, but I'm saying we're living this time. Yeah, we understand it. I gave a disclaimer right after his, yo. I just, I gave a disclaimer right after his about my position, which is the insanity of what's going on right now.

I was speaking to a very close friend who's a well-known actor today a couple hours ago. And I told him what I was doing today and he goes oh are you going to be public enemy number one that's the first question all i did was i said i was coming on this show to talk about what happened that was that was the words i said i'm going on dr drew's show to tell you about what happened are you going to be public enemy anybody that would judge howard for sharing his clinical experience should check themselves really think about what you're doing you're taking somebody that's had a reaction. I, and I'm here saying it's probably uncommon or maybe rare, but I need to know the numbers so I can make that adjustment in my

deployment of the vaccine. And by the way, yo, uh, Rom, I have not seen any of this sort of vaccine injury in anybody over the age, definitely not over the age of 75. Has that been your experience also? I have to look at the cohort, but I would say so. It's almost, it has similarities to the long COVID, the demographics. Mostly, I would say between 20 and 60 skews more towards women than men 70 30 percent which is interestingly enough kind of also correlates with some of the i think some of the documents that pfizer's released in terms of some of the adverse events from their clinical

trial uh kind of our numbers really line up with that it affects more middle-aged women than men but again those numbers could be skewed because men typically don't like to talk about when they have chronic illnesses. So I think maybe there's some bias in that too. Lindsay, go ahead and unmute your mic there in the lower left-hand corner. Lindsay's a nurse. She has something to tell us. She was responding with 100% on some of the things that we've all been saying here. So, Lindsay, what's up? Hey, Dr. Drew. Hey, Dr. Yeo. I'm actually a patient of Dr. Bream, so he saved my life.

I'm a vaccine-injured nurse. I never had COVID. It activated six out of 14 of my cytokines and all three of my monocytes. So he's been nursing me back to health for a year now. He saved my life, and I'm just grateful for what you guys are doing. What specifically, Lindsay, was the treatment? Were you Maravirac also, or what kinds of things? So I'm on Maravirac and atorvastatin,

and I'm also on propanolol because I have POTS and Dysautonomia. And I also see Dr. Corey, so I bridge the two treatments together. So I'm on Ivermectin, low-dose naltrexone, a bunch of vitamins, minerals, and supplements. So it's been interesting. I'm about 50% to 60% functional now, whereas when I first saw Dr. Bream, I'm about 50 to 60% functional now. Whereas when I first saw Dr. Bream, I was about negative 5% over close to dead. And he's really brought me back. But I still have tremors.

I still have POTS. I have mast cell activation syndrome and a whole list of other things. Yeah. Well, thanks, Lindsay Lindsay for sharing the story. And I should mention, uh, uh, Howard, Susan has already ordered natto kinase for you. She's, uh, she, she is a spike protein, uh, theorist. And so, uh, she's going to insist you get on that and see if that helps. Um, so let's keep going with the callers. Anything you want to add to that, uh, Rom? Uh,

no, we, we've got an amazing team. I'm glad that that Lindsay, you're, you're feeling better. Good. Uh, here's a physician.

Let's, uh, get a physician up here to see if he has any, uh, any concerns or any, uh, questions. It's Dr.

Smear. Dr. Muir. Welcome. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. questions it it's dr smear dr mirror welcome yeah thanks thanks fellow amherst college grad yeah i get to talk to you um go go now mammoths rather than lord jeff and uh howard howard is also amherst grad so so i'm a child adolescent adult psychiatrist here in new york city and um

i actually did a whole podcast uh which i'm turning into a book, on the pandemic while it was happening. And one of my areas of interest is the overlap between autoimmune conditions and psychiatric conditions. And I have psoriatic arthritis. And one of the things that we need to be able to say out loud is medical interventions have risks. They have different risks for different people. I had my ass kicked for six months after the vaccine, and I would still do it again because at least for me, with the data I had at the time,

and I actually recorded the audio of me getting that shot and turning it into a podcast and the marketing up to it. We were dealing with a terrifying situation and we didn't have all the information. And one of the things we're doing all the time is weighing risks and benefits and sometimes accepting risk. And for the recent work by Eric Topol on the neuroinflammatory effects of the spike protein,

to me, call into question, how much risk are we exposing different cohorts to? And these are, of course, important questions to answer. And at the same time, we're always balancing risks and benefits. And we're always taking risks, and sometimes significant risks. And if we don't acknowledge that, and part of the problem with this whole thing, I literally sourced a million masks for hospitals in the city of New York with dollars from philanthropic funding,

and I had hospital administrators turn them down because they weren't stamped CAN 95. And I have that on tape. I have hospital administrators saying, we don't want the liability of having real masks made in the same factory. They don't have the stamp. So we're going to let our nurses on the front line and doctors get COVID and die because they don't have a stamp and we don't want the liability. We'd rather have them cover their faces with things that we know are ineffective on their own instead of letting them have something, you know, officially provided. It's just, it was. Or how about just giving them the option

to make the judgment for themselves, God forbid, that physician and nurse judgment be the way, the way forward. Yeah. And that's, and that's weighing like in a, in a pandemic, right? There are no emergencies because we need to have our health professionals stay alive. And that means that we're accepting risks for everyone. So thank you for bringing it up. Yeah. But let me, let me interrupt you a second and just say, you bring up psoriatic arthritis and autoimmune disease and psychiatric pathology.

And I just read an article today about a woman with cerebritis from chronic lupus and got on some sort of cytotoxic agent or something and came back from a fugue state. She must have had a sort of a locked-in syndrome from the inflammation being at that level in the brain. I have this distinct feeling that a lot of the long, not all, but a lot of the long COVID and long vaccine injury is similar to head injuries, traumatic injury, like a global injury to the brain.

This is a global vascular, I think. But do you agree with me that, that the inflammation is in the vascular system, but it's still inflammatory and it's global and it's across the brain? And so I'm going to agree with that pretty strongly and argue that that's actually probably more often the case with psychiatric conditions anyway than we recognize. So Chris Brown just wrote a book called Brain Energy, which is remarkable at the role of mitochondria across these illnesses. Ketogenic diet is a potent intervention for epilepsy. We've accepted that for 100 years. It is likely to also have a role in bipolar disorder. These are neuroinflammatory conditions until proven otherwise. And I use a lot of neuromodulation to treat that. But these are part of our body, right?

The inflammation affects the body, et cetera. So of course. We're just beginning to get to it. Listen, do me a favor. Susan, keep an eye out for this. Send an email to contact at drdrew.com. And I'm going to try to get you on a podcast to talk this in detail, okay? I would love that. Contact at drdrew.com. Thanks'm going to try to get you on a podcast to talk this in detail. Okay. Would love that. Contact at drdrew.com and thanks for having me on.

Yep. Okay. Thanks. All right, buddy. Uh, anybody want to ring in on anything yet? Anybody, are you guys, uh, thoughts? Drew, I think Owen brings up a really good, Drew. Go ahead. Go ahead. I hear you. So, um, I, I think Owen brings up a really good oh drew go ahead go ahead i hear you so um i i i think owen brings up a really good a couple of really good points i want to just sort of highlight that it's everything is risk versus benefit benefit right the problem is right now we don't know we don't have any epidemiological data we don't know the prevalence of these you know vaccine this post-covid or post-vaccine issues even this the numbers between long covid we it's post-covid what is causing it we don't really know what are the real true numbers and i think that starts to you know when you don't have numbers then you

start to have nefarious players here that i want to you, they take a small thing and they say, look, millions are going to die of this vaccine. Everyone's going to, what do they call it? The clot shot. And the vast majority of people have done, they've done okay with the vaccine, with the COVID vaccine. I think that's very, very important to, in terms of the safety, at least these side effects.

But there is clearly a certain group of patients that have had not just only like the the common ones or the known ones but the ones like Howard and they're with their voices and not being heard right now and dr. Yogan dhra the the pushback I would agree 100% and that's again why i continue to use it in the elderly patient the pushback is and i and i was going to bring this up with uh dr muir too because he he emphasized the deadliness of the illness reality is that was overstated for young people drastically grotesquely overstated and so on one, we're overstating the risk to people that are truly not at risk and we're under, maybe understating the risk of the therapeutics

and the vaccine for that same population. That's what I'm concerned about. I, I, I think, you know, I, maybe this is why I stopped calling Howard. I would have definitely recommended he get the vaccine at the time he got the vaccine. And I would have felt terrible about the vaccine reaction. I would have been confused because it was not really in the literature yet, that kind of thing at that time, though I've seen it quite a bit since. And so it is again that the hysteria they caused around the illness and remind us to remind ourselves, they continued it months and months into Omicron. Remember when Omicron showed up in South Africa and they announced then that, you know, here

it comes, going to destroy the world and don't listen to those South African doctors who keep saying that it's mild. That went on for months and months and months. And oh, by the way, the vaccine that they were pushing extraordinarily hard at that time had little or no activity against omicron there was about a six-month period of overlap there i do think that it did interrupt alpha and delta and alpha delta were nasty nasty illnesses i don't want to understate that they weren't nasty illnesses and they did kill a lot of people but we overstated and made

hysterical the the risk to younger people and that we did not we're not allowed any conversation about the risks of the vaccine i'm going to bring up stacy before i let you guys respond to my little comments there stacy just unmute yourself and uh have added oh hello hi dr thanks for having me on hi there thanks for having having me on. I just had a point to make and then a question as well. Just a little bit about my history. I do have a master's degree in a health-related field. And my son has gotten two kidney transplants. So he's now 18 years old and he's gotten all of his vaccines that were recommended.

But as they were developing this new vaccine platform, I'm kind of a research geek. So I wanted to look into it and see which one would be safe for him, etc. Because I like to be informed. And I began to be a little skeptical as I was researching them in 2020, in the fall of 2020, about the mRNA platform, because I know my way around a study. I mean, I'm not, I don't have a doctorate or not a doctor, but I do have a master's degree and, you know, we learn how to read studies and do statistics and do all that. And what I was finding on the MRNA was, yeah, so I was getting concerned and I wasn't seeing much in by way of, you know, answers to my concerns. And then in February of 2021, I happened because it was on my radar.

You know, I was scanning, I was searching and things. So maybe that's why I saw it. But I did see a letter that was sent to the EU, the Emergency Medicines Agency president, Ursula von der Leyen. And this letter was from 12 scientists. One of them was Dr. Mike Yeadon. And this letter outlined concerns that they had based on research that had already been conducted and what they had already found out. So in other words, these 12 doctors were following the science and they had an urgent letter saying, hey, you know, all of these other studies about the mRNA and about the spike, about the damage to the endothelial and the uptake by the endothelial cells with the living nanoparticles, all of that had been studied even by Moderna, you know, in 2020 and 2019. And they were concerned that the results of those studies, because they did not see anything that had been resolved and they wanted

to know, Hey, we saw these concerns with this platform and this method of delivery and the spike protein in these areas, can you show us how those have been resolved so that this vaccine is safe? And they did not receive a response. And so they went ahead and published their letter online. I don't know. Did you ever see that letter or did any of the doctors? I didn't see that, but I've heard concerns like that, obviously. And there's also concerns about the batching of the mRNA vaccines, you know,

the concentrations of various things and whether or not there's partial mRNA and protein particles and things. There's all kinds of concerns that have just kind of gone unaddressed and it goes unaddressed under the general heading of millions of people have had this everybody's fine yeah generally as dr gander said yeah yeah generally true but not specifically true and trying to make a decision for you know 18 to 20 year old male with multiple kidney transplants that's a that's a challenging decision to make some people may have no trouble with it many doctors might just go right with it my thing is what's wrong with covaxin why haven't we approved covaxin in this country? And maybe it's that it really isn't specific

to the dual agent yet, the Omicron, but why aren't we allowing more traditional platforms? Dr. Ogander, do you have any thoughts about that? I would probably say politics, but that's usually, you know, before COVID, I wouldn't say that, you know, before COVID, I wouldn't, I would, I wouldn't say that, you know, it seems like every sort of conspiracy theory or, you know, wild thoughts that people have, uh, before, after COVID seems to all be coming true. So I'd probably say there's something

finances or I couldn't tell you, I couldn't tell you true Drew, about... But there's no medical reason you wouldn't think they'd be giving a more traditional platform like Covaxin, which they had kind of approved at one point and then didn't approve. Maybe it's something to do with Omicron. I'm not sure. But again, let's at least aim towards for these young males that really need vaccine therapies

that have concerns. Why not have options? No. Well, he ended up getting it. We all ended it. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Go ahead. Finish up. Oh, I was going to say, we ended up, I ended up just letting, you know, his, his kidney team at Stanford know that we really wanted to wait for the risk benefit analysis for his age group and, and his, you know, solid organ transplant.

They were okay with that, you know, because the data wasn't really out yet. That's good. And I was asking for data. I call that progress. We ended up all getting it. We all got COVID. We all got Delta. He sailed through it. He was sick.

He had a fever for about an hour. And then he got the monoclonal antibodies. They had him on that. But now, you know, we've all had it. We had it once back in October, you know, 2022. So I just tell you with all the pushback and then I'll end with this, but with all the pushback that I saw, the things that were not making sense to me, a mom who's not a doctor, all the questions that I was not getting answered and the hyper push to cover all of those concerns up. In other words, I heard the wording, it is suggested as that is safe and effective.

You know, when I see things in studies, you know, here's the concern. And at the end of the study, they say, but we still recommend you get it because it's, you know, the data suggests that it's safe and effective. Well, what data? You know, there's no data in there that says it's safe. But I did put all the references to the studies and the letter in the comments to this space. So you can go look at the body of the letter and all of the studies that, again, all of the studies that had come out before any of the emergency use authorizations were issued. So why they didn't address any of those concerns and all of those things happened that were, that, that they were concerned about, um,

makes me think that, Hey, you know, I wasn't a conspiracy theorist before all this, but now, now I, I'm a, I'm a truther. I just want to know. So thank you so much. Good for you. Thanks, Stacey. Susan is convinced that moms are going to lead us out to the truth.

She just keeps saying the moms. The moms have to make the women. We have to use our instincts. Yeah, it's crazy. Again, great comment. What's that? You know, on the conspiracy theory side, this was my first taste of this was,

I think I said six weeks after I got the shot, Science Magazine had an article. That was the first place that gave me some researchers to take a look at, to try to contact, see what was online there is a group called uh real not rare is this do you know that so the vaccine injury i've heard of this yep and and somewhere in this the name react 19 came up and i've heard them mentioned actually on one of your podcasts, one of your podcasts with Dr. Victory, somebody mentioned them in passing. And so I typed React 19 into

my Google search. And I got so React 19, R-E-A-C-T-1-9. And I get a message that says, there's no such website. But here are some others you might want to look at. And they're all pages from the CDC telling me how safe the vaccines were. And I go on Yahoo, tried the same thing, same thing happens. Later through, maybe it was through, I didn't join, I didn't join Real Not Rare because I'm not convinced this is not rare, right? And I didn't want to be part of overstating the commonness of this, but I did follow a lot of their links. Sure enough, they had a link to this React 19, which is just an organization of vaccine injured people like me, who happen to be doctors and researchers and scientists. And there we're just trying to find

a place to pool information and such. And so this was the first time that I went, man, somebody's trying to cover our eyes on this. And then the second one that came up quickly in our life was my wife has a friend who got tinnitus as a result of the vaccine, which I guess is common enough that Cedars-Sinai here was doing a study on it. She was part of it. They had a Facebook group just of people who'd suffered tinnitus and comparing remedies, comparing workarounds, very benign. But anytime anybody would post with the word vaccine in it, Facebook would shut down the group.

So they started talking in code. And it's like, I've never been a conspiracy theory guy. And all of a sudden this comes up. And I think that's why when I saw in the Matt Taibbi reporting that this wasn't just overenthusiastic big tech companies trying to be good citizens, that this was actually programmatically encouraged by our health authorities, you know, isn't like the first rule in a pandemic or in any health crisis is be honest. You know, when you encounter stuff like that, how does that make me somebody who has always been very trusting and believing in health authorities? You know, where does that put me for the next time around? Gosh, I almost feel like I need to do an episode

where I just sit and recap my feelings right now because I am so overwhelmed with various emotions when I hear you say that because I've learned so many things I didn't know about what's happening in this profession and in public health. And there's a whole story to be told here that very much zeroes in on what you're talking about here. Ram? Sure. I want to share something with you and the rest of your audience. And this is purely anecdotal. This is not someone that came in trying to work with us i'm on vacation i'm not i'm not going to say where because i want to keep this person uh you know

completely anonymous so i'm on i'm on vacation i'm doing a food tasting tour and a couple of guys in the military i happen to be on this tour 10 10 dudes And we start talking, you know, I asked my background what I do. I said, you know, I do, you know, anesthesia and by trade, I'm doing some of this research on long COVID. And one of the guys pulls me aside and goes, hey, do you know anything about vaccine injuries? So I get a little startled because not really typically a conversation I have in public or with people in general. And I, you know, I,

I was a little bit puzzled, but he goes, well, I'm going to tell you my story. And so this is someone, he's in one of the top air pilots in the air force, highly trained guy, young, young guy. And he tells me that he, he ended up getting, I think it was the, after the Pfizer vaccine, he ended up getting myocarditis. Um, and eight for 18 months, uh, 18 months now, he's, since he has the vaccine, he's got injury, he's got scarring in his heart. He just got clear to fly. Um, but he was, he was saying initially when he got the vaccine, um, he started,

he started to experience chest pains, went to the, his, his commanding officer, sent him over to the military hospital. They did all the tests and they said, well, there's really nothing wrong with you. Sent him back. Now he said he was flying and still having some chest pains. What he was doing, he was running on a track. He said he did one of the things, in his exact words, it's one of the stupidest things he did was try to like plow through it. So he was like running on a treadmill, running on a track he said he did one of one of the the things in his exact words is one of the stupidest things he did was try to like plow through it so he was like running on a treadmill running on a bike he says one day if he experiences a ch a crushing uh chest pain so he runs gets on

a treadmill trying to you know what's the last thing you want to do if you have a chest pain but runs on treadmill um tries to fight it off and realizes something bad is happening calls his commanding officer says me i'll meet you at the military hospital. Gets over there, does a battery of tests, and they're like, you've been having multiple heart attacks for the past six months. So he's been on, I forget what medications he was on. So he starts telling me about his story and how he finally just got cleared to fly. But he's got really bad scarring on his heart and he's worried about when he leaves the when he leaves the when he leaves the military about his disability. Then he starts telling me that there are others in his squadron who also experience this.

And then he tells me that he goes on his military. I'm going to interrupt you. We did a whole podcast with a military doctor who documented extraordinary frequency amongst flyers with this and was told to shut up. What was her name? Do you remember her name? Maybe somebody can help me on the stream. But it was,

no, no, it wasn't Sasha Latipova. I'll look it up. I'll find it. No, before that she, she is a fine physician and had had a whole

sort of air force under her under her supervision and started reporting this and was told to shut up and she's not shutting up and so this is a not an uncommon phenomenon uh and we don't know how common or how uncommon or whatever we just don't know because we're not allowed to even look at it. In her study, it looked rather common. I'm still looking. I'm watching you guys on the restream. Dr. Teresa Long. Teresa Long.

That's who it was. Yes, Dr. Teresa Long. Thank you. You might look her up, Bram, or maybe talk to her. She'll call you back and hear her story. It's hair-raising. It's hair-raising. This is not something we have not story. It's hair-raising. It's hair-raising. So this is not something we have

not heard. It really is. Yeah, I mean, we're hearing it from a lot of the military, and it's scary because these guys are putting their lives to defend us, and if something's wrong with them, we need to be... There's a lot of money going. These are top pilots. There's millions

of dollars going in. That's right. This one pilot, he he said they put in two three million dollars invested in him and they they want him in top shape so if we're having this issue that's obviously very concerning i i feel like we could spin on this for a while and uh but i i'm gonna kind of wrap up is that you want me to go on what do you think okay how are you feeling how are you hanging in your energy's good you're feeling all right about this i'm okay i'm fine okay there's a lot of callers lined up really depressed but we're getting really i'm sorry to do that we got a lot of calls we got to push through

now it's important that we we feel this together we need to manifest a better change for this all right so we'll kind of keep going here i'm going to talk to pablo oh yeah interesting i have a lot of women calling in which is sort of interesting that you said it's this thing tends to affect women more than men and susan's very concerned about moms being yeah moms are scared yeah um and naomi wolf has done more to scare people a little bit about that and again i i've seen i don't know what to make of the data right now it's because it and there is also you guys there is an adulteration of the medical literature the editorial process annals of internal medicine i'm telling you they have broken the ice they've started publishing stuff that is finally counter narrative i've it shocked me it jumped out of me

when i saw it there was it was a change two weeks ago change Change. And we have RFK Jr. You know, you're talking, I hate the word conspiracy theory, but I don't know what's going on, but something's going on. And RFK Jr. thinks that it's corporate capture of government regulatory agencies. He also believes they've captured the medical literature. And he said his first thing he would do if he were ever elected president would be to call in the editors of the majors and say, look, I'm going to gonna prosecute you under a rico act if you don't do something about your editorial process how would you like you want to talk no no no i just i heard that i heard your interview with him that's all i'm just i don't know what to make all that totally thank you for

listening yeah after me especially after me I'm glad you're doing this. It's a great service and comfort that you're doing this, I have to say. It's brave, too, because I know you're taking your hits for it. All right, I'm trying to get Nate up here. Yeah, I feel like the French underground. I've said that since Susan first set this thing up. We're like in somebody's basement broadcasting you know with the current information getting getting around the you know who was i don't like to make those references even anymore nate go ahead and mute your mic and hear what you have to say

oh that's not happening uh all right i'm going to take him back down you guys got to stay with me you got to respond quick uh i can't see what the name is here eat eat fish eat pray fish just really glad that the restream stayed up today yes yes we had all kinds of crazy stuff yesterday. Yes, what can we do for you? I don't know your name. Eat prey fish? Yeah, it's you. I just wanted to say, and I'm looking at it from the legal standpoint, but on the censorship, I've never seen anything in my life so bad. And I was a hardcore Democrat, had to switch parties to start fighting. And it was so bizarre that I worked at Reed Elsevier at one point, and they own Science Direct, which you know is a top tier publication and I posted an article from

science direct that actually had knowledge of who worked on it what have you I was banned for 30 days and I actually went around and called I I had to go through Instagram, but I called and I said that I forget how I got through, but I got through somehow. Wait, my phone. We hear you. You're in and out a little bit but we basically hear you so keep going okay one second now you're out okay i'm sorry one second yeah but i called um oh somebody was

calling i called meta and i got through to a person and i just laid it on to them. I'm like, my father, you know, fought in a war. He quit his minor league base and I can't post about vitamin D. At the same time, Facebook was rampant with child pornography. And I'm not, you know, whatever. It's in Delaware Chancery Court right now. The shareholders finally sued. But. Nothing. I report I reported on guns, which is a federal offense. Nothing. I reported on child porn. Nothing.

But I was banned for Science Direct, vitamin D for 30 days. I mean, I think that this is so beyond comprehensible that some people just can't even wrap their minds around it. I'm one of those people, my dear. What is your name? What is your first name, if you don't mind? Mary Lees. Mary Lees. Mary's i i i'm one of those people i mean i think howard maybe rom is too i i i can't i like the whole three years i've been like what is going on you're just shaking my head constantly and and uh and you question your sanity

well if you question your four years ago four years ago if you told me that story four years ago, four years ago, if you told me that story, I would have gone, oh, come on. Well, whatever. They probably had a reason. I would have just been very dismissive. I couldn't, no way would it have entered my consciousness as something that was being actively censored.

And yet now I know it's grotesquely so and i know why they did it and i still don't know the full story yet i still don't know the full story i really don't was it all just hysteria was it all you know uh you know you know be i you know i because i lived through the opioid epidemic and i was fighting that and the regulators and the va and the state agencies and the department of mental health i was fighting it actively during the opioid epidemic and I was censored and punished and one thing after another for 10 years for fighting against it. That, that experience, what they did then was line and verse what happened now. And I can only describe it as evangelism. You have scientists and physicians that

become evangelical crusaders that believe they're wearing a white hat to save humanity that's how doctors do evil that's how we hurt people but it's it's the word beware the physician with the white hat that is how we do harm i'm telling you lived through it. And once what they do is then they get under the skin of the regulators and all the tech companies and they go in there and they evangelize, they create their own evangelical group within those organizations. And now it is on. It's a religion at that point. And it has to be fought accordingly. Well, and one other thing I wanted to state is they did so many crazy things i'm here in ohio i mean i can't they filled the skateboard parks with sand they destroyed i was in the i was in

the great state of california where we filled the skateboard park with sand we we we um soldered over we we uh what's it called? We have a welding guy. We welded the basketball court. So you couldn't throw a basketball, the environment where we should have been spending our time outside of the beach or the parks were forbidden. Uh, just, and, and, and by the way, think of the average citizen, you worry what happened, you know, what happened to the Germans during remote. And It was like, think of the average citizen that became the police force that was arresting and the poor lifeguards that were going out into the water to pull people out to arrest them and find them for daring to run them foul of the thus sayeth the Lord from the

public health community. Oh my God, we should never forget what happened here. It's beyond. Yes, there was a horrible pandemic. Yes, there were people dying. Yes, things needed to be done. But what we did was so excessive and so nonsensical and so outside of the basic principles of our government

and who we are as a people and as scientists. We didn't do anything based on an objective reality, and that's how we became evangelists and did harm to people. So thanks, Mary-Lise. There was no debate. By the way, Drew, while calling... Go ahead, say that again. While calling that the science.

Yeah, right. That's right. That's the science yeah right right that's right the thing was that's the science and anything anything this is anything that yeah and anything that ran afoul that was disinformation non-scientific when in fact science is about the back and forth that's what science is it's about getting getting to the truth through the back and forth of trying to understand this infinitely complex thing we call human biology. Well, you guys, I'm actually running out of steam. I was telling Susan during the break, I said, you know, I think I got what Howard has from my, I got it from the virus, a little long COVID. Well, that's what I think to myself. Maybe I'm just old, but I'm like 95%.

You know, I just, I run out of steam in ways I didn't used to. We did get a super chat. I don't know if you can answer this. What was the question? From Diaphanic1. We got $4.99. Thank you. Any chance neuropathies from very high VGEF levels

could be mistakenly diagnosed as MS? Also, what are your thoughts on the VAC slash MS paper out on who? I was aware there's an MS paper. I think John Campbell did a podcast on it. I've not reviewed it yet. I'll refer this one to Dr. Yogendra. So what is the problem?

You've got to understand, MS usually shows up on MRI pretty clearly. And if it doesn't show up on MRI, there's characteristic patterns in the cerebral spinal fluid. It's well beyond just neuropathic changes in the periphery and VEGF elevation. But, Ron, what do you say to that? No, I agree, Dr. Drew. You know, we still can't disregard our principles of medicine and having to do a thorough history

and physical and getting all of the diagnostic tests. I will say this one, you know, along those lines on the post-vax, very interestingly, we're seeing quite a bit of patients that have post-COVID that actually having reactivation of Epstein-Barr, reactivation of Borrelia or Lyme, reactivation of Bartonella, Babesia. And we're seeing that with with some of the vaccine patients too. They're coming in presenting as having a post-vaccine reaction in the past, I think three months, we're picking up reactivation in the post-vaccine group of other pathogens that they were pre that they had no idea, but we can pick it up through our algorithm. So still quite a lot of work to do and to get an understanding of what's going on here. Rom, I'm going to let you go.

I'm going to spend the last couple of minutes with my friend Howard. We appreciate the update. Where do people go if they have long-haul symptoms, if they're concerned? Where can they find you? COVIDlonghauls.com. You can get the testing and a consultation with our group

that's for long COVID post vaccine Lyme ME-CFS we've got in the next couple weeks we'll be making a couple big announcements a lot of all our data is actually sitting with the FDA right now we should actually be hearing back from them in the next week or two so

keeping fingers crossed and we'll make announcements on the clinical though even though they're they are they are quietly uh censoring you from the editorial position but i will just leave those thoughts to myself i suppose but i i just as rom told me something earlier and i use the f word in a way that i don't usually use it and i thought this is so ridiculous but here we are so good luck with that rom we'll see you uh again good good thank you for joining us and sharing your thoughts so good to see you good to see you as well thank you thanks nice meeting you okay nice meeting you howard so you too and so howard here we are um i've we've threatened to do this for a long time and i appreciate you coming in and sharing your thoughts um you know i i don't like to be hysteric in either direction.

I like to try to be very measured about this. And I feel you kind of doing the same thing. And yet it's hard not to get kind of angry, you know, given, as you said, the silencing, the Matt Taibbi reporting, and the way people are harming people, actively harming people for trying to get to the truth, and not helping people who have been harmed and would like some help. To me, that's sort of unconscionable, even if it's not on a large scale. Unfortunately, some of this is on a large scale. I wonder if you have any kind of last thoughts. I love your writerly approach to thinking about thinking about these things

you know i i guess the last thing i i want to say i was thinking about this what's the title of this episode because that's what got me thinking it was something about uh i don't know caleb what did you say i don't get to title it c Caleb, what did you title it? Trust the Silenced. That's what he said. Oh, Trust the Silenced. Something about the vaccine injured. The vaccine injured tell their stories. Yeah. So this may feel like it cuts a little in the opposite of my anger and of the other things that I said.

And maybe this is that dose of calm and perspective that you and I both try and bring to this, which is, until very recently, I never thought of myself as injured. And I still don't talk about it that way. I think of this as getting sick. I think of this as an illness. I think of this as the world has gotten hit by this horrible pandemic. A lot of people have been hurt by it worse than I have, right? And I was just one more person sort of swept along with this. And I think that's probably the bigger picture, you know, that at the margins, there are things

which our authorities should have done better. And I don't feel like I was done well by them and some specific doctors. I don't feel I was done well by, because I think they got too swept up in the politics of all of it, too. You know, but this has hurt a lot of people, and I'm just kind of one of them. That's kind of the main thing I think when I think about it. I have a question. If I can say something. Oh, go ahead. No, you first. I think something that might've been missing a bit from this episode were the stories of families who actually lost people because of the vaccine. The person I was most afraid of coming up today, which didn't appear in the spaces, was Answers for Sean, who is the father of his 17-year-old son.

He found his only son dead right after taking this vaccine. And every time he comes on this show and says anything, it's like it feels like you're putting a knife through my heart because I can't even imagine the pain that's in his voice. And I hear those stories over and over and over again. And that's, what's really opened up my mind to like, I was totally fine. My wife was totally fine. Almost everyone I know has been totally fine with these MRNA shots, but that still doesn't balance out this apps, the torture that some of these people are going through now, when all a bunch of people just like me were saying, you

know, Oh, it didn't hurt me. It didn't't hurt me that doesn't mean that it's not hurting other people in these very devastating ways well and if we could come up with some real numbers like okay the probability of a sean was one in 10 million or something like if that's true we probably probably wouldn't you know every medical intervention has nasty potential. It just, they all do. And some of them are catastrophic, a one in 10 million risk. Okay. I mean, if it helps, uh, you know, uh, a, a one in 1 million risk of a serious outcome from the back from the illness. Right now the math is there, but if it's one in 10,000, right, then it's a whole different story. You know, I think the thing is, is that people were not told that math.

We were just told safe and effective. We weren't told, well, one, even if they said one in every 500,000 are going to have these side effects, all of us would have felt they're at least being more honest with us. But now this way, it seems like these parents, they feel like they were totally lied to. They did what they were supposed to do. And now they've lost it. That's right. And Caleb, you're absolutely right.

I'm looking at the Twitter space to see all those 100s coming up, what you just said. And Howard said it a while ago. He said one of the first jobs of public health, in our humble opinion, is be honest. Give us the truth. Don't tell us to shelter in place and hide under the bed and then lead us then lead us with a whole bunch of bs i also think okay so the whole accountability by the government like what about people who are disabled and they don't get any respect for that for the fact their lives are ruined they can't afford to work and i don't

see howard as being the kind of person that would like no no but listen want a disability check or something they're blaming the victim that's what the government's afraid of that but that's what the government's afraid of and i should be responsible and i get that's what they're afraid of and yet they cannot be so willfully ignorant to what's going on here so so there's got to be i mean if that's the reason why they're not sort of talking about it is because they don't want to be accountable like i don't want to pay i i don't know i i don't know there's pieces missing still yeah i know it gives me the willies too yeah i don't like to think that way but i i i still think most people generally are well-meaning they were trying to do the right thing they just got swept up either in hysteria or evangelism and that makes people do the wrong thing and so i i i still there's still pieces missing there's still stuff i need to know

and i've learned a lot by talking to all the silence folks i i really have learned a ton i still say the the poster child is jay badacharya who should get back in here it's been long enough to get him back he is the poster child for a consummate professional a teacher, a professor being Stanford grotesquely sidelined and harmed by the, by the government, by, and the government agents. And that, that's just, it's, it's not, not okay. All right. Well, at least now he's able to speak freely with it. He's back freely. Like we're, we talked to him at the very beginning of the pandemic and we were like, what? And then he just got silenced and that was crazy and look hear me and howard saying we're going to be america's most hated you know it's a you know

it's it's we're just having a conversation and it scares us welcome to the club yeah it's just it's just this weird world we live in i mean think about imagine when we first started meeting there in hollywood near cnn even trying to imagine this moment. We couldn't have imagined it. Not at all. Right? Not at all. What would your dad say? What would your dad say?

Bad enough that you studied English in college. What would he say about all this? I think about that all the time. Thanks for having me on, Drew. All right, man. Great to see you. Say hi to everybody for us, and I'll talk to you soon, okay? All right.

Take care. All right. God bless. For the rest of you, great calls. I'm sorry I couldn't get to everybody in twitter spaces you did a great job thank you for participating with us we are let's put that up today thank you Caleb we love you Tuesday uh let's see today's Thursday right so Tuesday there we are uh got Michelle Bachman and Brian O'Sheaan's very excited about this uh june 7th and you know brian o'shea is naomi wolf's husband so if anybody wants to get susan uh get susan's uh as like a cat on the hot tin roof every time i see mohatra cardiologist with kelly

victory next wednesday and the following wednesday tom rens comes back with kelly victory and he was the attorney who told us that the um he hinted that the EcoHealth Alliance may be a counter espionage action. And that's why they funded the gain of function, which is an interesting thing. It's the only thing that makes sense for me. So I, when things make sense, I sort of think they probably are.

So, so until then, we will see you at three o'clock Tuesday, Pacific time. See you then. Ta-ta. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis,

or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated

since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me. Call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.